Don’t ever trust the velocity on the box. Don’t trust the velocity in reloading manuals either. You need to chrono everything. Reload your own ammunition to get the best performance.😊
Damn right! I almost NEVER get stated velocity out of the manual. Hell, I've got several manuals that show waaay different load data in the same components with different results.
The video actually demonstrated that 7PRC is not over rated but Hornady ammo is, as evidenced by Federal factory ammo loaded with 175 ELDX bullets. I'm getting right at 3000fps with it.
In 308 the box says 2600 fps 178edlx. My chronograph says that’s what it shoots. I wonder why the 7prc is so far off. Maybe barrel length is the difference.
@@randysmith8604 Don't think so. Hornady developed the 7PRC, as I understand it, with a 24" barrel in mind. The repeated answer we get from Hornady is that when they first tested ammo, they secured quite a bit of Reloder 26 powder. Thus, box billed velocities were accurate at 2950 to 3000fps ELDM, ELDX. They ran out of powder, tested more powders, got good velocities with some but accuracy lacked. Went with a more consistent powder for accuracy but velocity suffered. Hornady didn't bother to change labels with updated velocities.
If your not using chronograph data your not comparing apples to apples, so until you remove the not proven box data your still guessing. In reality most hunters, who break out their rifles a few times a year could not shoot a 1 MOA group at a hundred yards when Backfire sat for two days taking any and all who were sure they could do it, much less shooting at 300 to 400 yards.
Hornady is really dishonest anyways, they will lie, cheat and steal to sell their products. Back around 2005. I asked them to make me a custom round, they made it and then claimed the credit for it, even though I'm the one that thought of it. .
I just watched a guy test a 6.5 PRC Bergara rifle with Hornady Precision Hunter ammo 143 eldx. His velocity was 2830ish. Box velocity was like 2960 if I remember correctly. It’s not a cartridge problem but a Hornady ammunition problem.
@Yettiattackpeople are getting close to box velocity with Federal loaded ammo in 7prc. The Hornady ammo has been incredibly slow due to the fact they cannot get RL26 anymore. Any Hornady Precision Hunter ammo I have ran across a chrono has been around 100 fps slower or more in 4 different cartridges I have shot it from. All my barrels are 24” and use standard twist rates.
Hornady is having powder troubles. Can't get the good stuff. If you use federal terminal ascent or federal ELDX, 7MM PRC will rock your world! Hopefully hornady can get things sorted out.
Federal just happened to buy way more being a bigger company and when Covid hit the powder Industry shut down and is barely catching up as well as the government buying up components.
Hornady gets yet another kick in the balls over their current factory load velocities for the 7PRC. And well, I guess they should. But the Federal 7PRC ammo loaded with Hornady bullets gets much closer to the advertised velocity. As a handloader I couldn't care less about Hornady's factory load velocity. What I care about is handload velocity potential - in addition to the accuracy potential of the cartridge. I don't have a 7PRC, but I bet you could get a little tighter groups with it than the 7 Rem Mag with carefully developed handloads. Not saying the 7 Rem Mag isn't capable of great accuracy or that anyone necessarily needs a 7PRC, but it's nice to have a new choice that's not a belted cartridge from the 1960's.
My Bergara shoots 3/4 or better if I do my part. That’s with multiple powder weights with the 180 eld m bullets. I just like the fact that there’s no stupid belt on the thing.
@michaelthrelkeld212 So the first loads were at advertised speeds. The rest weren't. None of this would affect me, but that's the lack of repeatability, that I referenced.
Thanks for all your help and hard work you're doing. Not to worry over Hornady's cartridges, there are some good people who work there, somehow, they end up going down that rabbit hole; or are digging a hole and not know when to stop digging. Seems like everybody is fast-tracking everything, it's all about who's going to be first. You keep doing what you do, you're doing a fine job my friend. Blessings your way.
I’m getting 3010fps with the 175gr eldx out of my 7rem mag (26 inch 1-8.4 twist) this cartridge really does nothing others don’t already do. It’s just marketing hype. Cheers for the video mate
A 26 is really impractical in the field with a can. What off the shelf gun is coming with that barrel? PRCs are coming factory set up for the job. That's the point
As a hunter, I agree, it doesn’t matter. 98% of all game is taken within 250 yards. If it gets people interested in shooting, great. However, 7 REM mag still works and no one figures head space off the rim anymore so that does not matter. Actually the 7mm-08 makes so much sense for hunting at less than 300 yards for hunting.
If it's still more common in the stores it's still better. Handloading is always excluded but you always have to consider the availability in case of a hunting ammo emergency. 7mm prc will not be on the shelf in the middle of nowhere mom and pop shop
You DID put a smile on my face. New stuff is fun and all but it doesn't change the fact that most game is taken at well under 300yds. I'm just a hunter and I believe it is still called hunting, not shooting. My 30-06 suits me fine.
I watched a video from Big Game Hunting Blog about the same subject and he mentioned that Hornady change their initial propellent due to lack of production. And Hornady said in their email that the new propellent has reduced the velocity between 5 and 175 feet. So he ordered the Federal ammo and gave him the right top speed velocity. I recommend you watch that video. Great job and cheers from Canada!
Besides the powder issue, Hornady said they use MINIMUM Saami spec test barrels to get published velocities. So they give themselves the best opportunity to get the highest velocities. If I have a rifle that has a barrel in the middle of the chamber spec allowance, it’ll be hard to get their velocities.
Every company uses the best possible SAAMI barrel for their velocities. The only ammo I’ve ever had that met published velocities is 5.56 ammo out of my 20” A2 clone.
It's not just the 7mm prc that has affected velocitie with there ammo its others of there loadings in calibers. Wats the chronographed velocity on the remington ammo vs their box claims?
This made me laugh. I NEVER trust what a box says. This is why I started reloading decades ago and excising my chronograph I am 65. I started hunting deer and above, at age 12. My Dad always was an advocate of shoot game as close as you can. He said it takes a lot of guess work out of it. I agree. Dad was a multi-generational Texan, I am a 7th gen Texan! I cannot count the number of deer I have harvested at 30-30 ranges! I live in the brush country in South Texas, 60 miles from the Mexican border. The vegetation and terrain variances preclude long shots. I have a buck down to a 30-30 that was over 225 pounds, plus or minus to a 30-30. Blew his heart out. If you are shooting game at a mile, you are WRONG. You need to check your ethics at the door and accept your ass whipping now. Most people are NOT military grade snipers! Sure, lots of folks shoot well, I get it, however, if you have not been to sniper school, check your ego at the door, grab some semblance of respect for the game animals, and get with the program. Hunting IS NOT sniping! A target is NOT a game animal. Respect the animal, please. You stated the obvious up front. KNOW where you are placing the bullet, PLACING, the bullet.
People forget this way too easily. When tryingbto test their limits, they should be on a range. My grandfather always said, "have enough respect for the game you hunt to kill it as quickly and efficiently as possible. If you can't do that, leave your guns at home."
Yeah you put a smile on my face by mentioning 30-06. I just shot one with 180 gr federal soft point and what a wallop!!! The 308 is still a tack driver at 300 for me though. Even though it's a semi auto we got better dope on the bullet drop and I hit the smallest steel every time!! Thanks Adam I watch your videos every night
Good information . 2 things to keep in mind though . 1- this is worse case scenario when it comes to bullet speed , federal is getting near 3000 with it for example , and hand loaders have taken it over 3000 . Second is the effect the high BC has on wind drift (which is imo much more important than drop as it’s much harder to predict even with the best tech out there ) food for thought
I watch Reloading Weatherby, and i'm really liking the underrated 6.8 Western. It deserves a lot more love than this turd Hornady cartridge has been getting
@@eggbert191 That’s starting to change… ADG brass company claims they will start producing brass by the end of this year and should be available for consumers shortly after that. Finally, we’ll see some quality brass over Olin. Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, Berger, Winchester, Browning are all producing bullets for the 6.8 Western with high BC. Choice Ammunition wrote me that Hammer will be coming out with an all copper bullet for the 6.8 Western as well. Browning, Winchester, Christensen Arms, Fierce, and Seekins are all producing rifles for the Western as well. It’s starting to pick up steam. It’s an excellent cartridge
You should do a review on the Cabela’s brand scopes. I have several on different rifles and i think they are a great option for people on a budget. They go on sale a lot during the holidays, my opinion best bang for your buck optics
The mile long shot is not a concern to me because I can get within a couple hundred yards by stalking and much closer by choosing a good place for my stand. So, do I need a 7PRC for hunting? Not if I have ammo for my 7x57, lol! Great video, it certainly shows an incredible amount of work! And your conclusions reinforced the old adage, “Never believe the numbers printed on the box!” Thanks for sharing!
I bought a Weatherby Vanguard Outfitter in 6.5 PRC today and a Bushnell 5 x 30 Match Pro Mil/Mil scope and can't wait to get it to the range, hopefully it does not disappoint.
And now we know why Hornady isnt loading or supporting the 6.8 Western because in the real world its quite close to the 7 PRC and it beats the 6.5 PRC in all categories. The 7 Rem mag actually beats the 7 PRC with all bullets up to the 175 and 180 class until the slower twist barrel and cartridge OAL limits it to go further. Who's shooting beyond 1000 yds or catching game beyond 600 anyway?
Three questions. Did you chronograph the other caliber Hornady rounds to see if they matched the claimed velocities? Is Hornady's claimed velocity based on a 24 inch barrel? And finally, did you actually shoot at those distances to confirm the drop in inches? But, you make a good point about claimed velocity affecting the ballistic performance.
Mate, reload and get a 26 to 30-inch barrel, and it outshines. I have a heavy 30-inch 1m tac-driver in 7mm PRC. Very Very! Happy with the results. It's not the cartridge that is the issue!
Regardless of the reason the velocity of their factory ammo does not meet their advertised speed, Hornady should have gotten in front of this and been honest and not waited for vloggers to find out first and publish it. I would hope someone high enough up the ladder there has been held accountable for the poor decision making involved. For folks looking for a great apples to apples comparison of 7mm options, check out Little Crow Gun Works series using one bullet and the same powders for 280AI, 7 Rem, 7prc and Nosler 28. The videos are long and in depth, so pack a lunch lol
I remember asking you to do a campaign of hats a month or two ago!! Im going to be buying one this coming week. Thanks for finally getting on it. I bring up your channel alot while talking about firearms at work with the guys! 3006 for life. Everything else is just a new fad
I'll stick with my 30.06 great job dude great info loved the upside-down box that we all love about your videos there not edited like others are keep up the good work dude
Federal has the right velocity but of course the company that owns federal owns Aliant powder which Hornady probably uses reloader 26 which is practically impossible to find.
that makes absolute sense. there isn't a lot of rl-26 to go around and if the company can source direct from a sister company they can keep the velocities where they should be. and being sibling companies federal would have 1st priority.
This explains why i dont use Hornady ammo. The issue isn't the cartridge. it's the Hornady ammo. The Federal Factory ammo using Hornady ELDX bullets folks have chronoed that near 3000 fps. Also, keep in mind folks reloading their own ammo are at or exceeding 3,000 fps, too, for their 7 PRC rifles.
Thank you for doing more content on this cartridge. I watch all I can find on it. Now this is just me, but, a hundred or so fps slower than the label says doesn't matter to me. I care about accuracy. I don't shoot those distances anyway. If you set your rifle up to shoot where you want, with the ammo it likes, should be all good. I don't currently have a rifle in any 7mm, but I'll be getting one in 7mm PRC as soon as I can. Thanks to your video on the Mossberg, I'm considering that one over the rest right now.
at 14:50 you addressed what I was about to say lol. Are all of those other numbers ACTUAL or box numbers? Then you followed it up with even more of what I was going to say... Placement > cartridge (mostly) and there's a reason there's a great debate about all of these rounds. I went with a 7PRC simply because I made the transition from a 30 cal down to a 7 for higher BC and I didn't want to deal with the belt for reloading the rem mag. Is it the best cartridge out there? Doubt it, but it suits my needs.
I may not be an expert But I do shoot a lot and compete a good bit. I’ve found it’s amazing how different barrels can shoot drastically different speeds I believe the cambering tolerances can make a barrel shoot faster or slower. 🤷♂️
All new cartridges are over-rated. They have to do this in order to stimulate new rifle and ammo sales. Thats just how things work. Us old geezers have heard these claims multiple times over our years. Thanks for the vid.
Once I went all copper (Barnes) I never went back to lead. I like 7mm but am a 243 guy so 6mm. 80 grains at 3350 fps is all I need 😁. I like the old calibers with the new bullets/projectiles. Am also huge fan of 300 win mag. Honestly, what can't I do with those 2 calibers in North America?
Are you comparing actual 7prc velocity againt box posted from the others? Im sure the others are also 100-150 fps slower as well. Out of 22" barrel 6.5 creedmoor, im getting about 130 fps slower than advertised on 143 eldx.
Old guy with the belt buckle here. Yes you put a smile on my face with the .270 comment, but I did go and get me a new Ruger American in 7mm-08 for this fall deer season. Keep up the videos they are awesome.
It’s not just Hornady that doesn’t hit the box velocity. That’s a common thing among most companies. Try the chrono on the rem, fed, win....... and the list goes on. It’s not uncommon for them to fall 100+ fps short from what I’ve seen. The best improvement the 7 prc has in my opinion is case design and getting rid of the belt with brass that should last longer for the reloader. IMO 😊
@@Matt-en1kn I’ve seen federal miss the velocity on other cartridges. Not just the 7 prc. One of my friends was really disappointed in some 270 wsm loads from federal. He sent them back to federal and they refunded or replaced them I don’t remember. I don’t think it’s just a certain cartridge or brand. Some of the Remington in the 300 win mag was a couple hundred fps below box velocity for my uncle also. The Winchester loads was really close on velocity in the same gun on the same day. I might be wrong but that’s been my limited experience. Happy hunting and good luck.
That's why I reload my own for every caliber I own. I spend the time to work up a load the each gun likes, weather it be slow or fast, light or heavy, then I set my calculations on my scope to that and go for it. Has served me well. Longest shot so far was 730 yards for a clean kill. A couple on deer at 600 plus yards.
Since you are comparing actual 7 PRC data to advertised box data for the 300 and 6.5 PRC I will bet they dont stack up either. I have a 7mm PRC. Thanks for another great video.
Did you use the box numbers for the rest of the ammunition? If you did maybe they'd have different numbers too ? Just a thought. Im sure every manufacturer uses the optimum barrel length and conditions for their numbers
Hello, I live in western Canada, I have a new Tikka ss T3X 6.5 creedmoor. I plan to use it for moose, elk and deer and I will use a good bonded bullet. My choice is either Federal Terminal Ascent (130 gr.) or Accubond LR (142 gr.). Could you do an accuracy test to compare these bullets. I know they are very equal in performance on big game but there isn't much information out there giving a real accuracy comparison. Thanks
It's also one of those areas you should be careful what you wish for. Yes it's irritating that Hornady isn't upfront about their velocities, but I was shooting the 7 PRC Precision Hunter ammo and enjoying superb accuracy and reasonable recoil (for me anyway). Then I found out about the velocity issue, bought a chronograph and yes, it was shooting in the mid 2800s. So I bought Federal loaded ELDX bullets and sure enough, they averaged 3005 fps. But they turned the gun into much more of a mule to shoot which affects accuracy if Im not careful. So like I said be careful what you wish for...😄🙄
If we do our own loads it's going to be as advertised, but clearly not what's on the box. It seems (to me) clear that Hornady fudged the box numbers just to edge out the 6.8 Western. Not getting rid of my 7mm PRC, or my 7mm Rem Mag, but now it's likely that I'll be ordering a 6.8 Western barrel for the ol' Desert Tech.
I have no idea why Hornady is advertising something that is just blatantly untrue. Allegedly, the first run of Hornady 7mm PRC Precision Hunter/Match actually had numbers similar to the box. Ron Spomer did a video on it not long ago, and his lot of ammo was within 30fps (if I remember correctly) of the box numbers. 7mm PRC is truly a hand loader's dream. I just put together a load for my Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 7mm PRC and I found a node at 2988 FPS average, with a 4fps spread between shots, with the 175gr ELD-X, and it printed .17MOA at 100. I have another load that I'm finalizing with the 195gr Berger EOL, and its running 2930fps average with a 2fps spread between shots. It was Sub MOA for sure, but I know it's capable of better than "just sub-moa." Great video as always, man. I think it may be a bit unfair to say the cartridge is overrated, but, it's a FACT that Hornady 7mm PRC ammo is just junk. I believe that Federal is running close to 3,000 on the box, and it's pretty close to that over the chronograph from what I have seen. The biggest advantage to the 7mm PRC vs Rem Mag is just that the PRC rifles by default come with the fast twist barrels for those long, high bc bullets. BUT, you are 100% correct, that there is no real advantage to 7mm PRC inside 300 yards. The PRC will have more energy, but, whitetails are only recommended to need 1000 ft/lb to take adequately. There's a whole mess of cartridges that will do that!
I sure wouldn’t mind picking your brain on your load data, I just picked up the very same rifle and have about 3/4 the needed setup to begin reloading.
@@IR8GRANDSRT8 I'll be completely honest with you, man. I don't share load data strictly for Liability reasons. I can tell you what components I'm using, but I can't share Charge weights or OAL. I'd be more than glad to walk you through some of the processes that I go through to find the most accurate loads, though.
I completely understand, I am looking more for what powders you’ve found success in regards to accuracy and velocity with which bullets, the charge I can work up to no problem. There’s so many powders that “work” for the 7PRC but finding that great one to three can be quite spendy. Since you have same platform I figured I’d hit you up. I’ve been watching Little Crow Gun Works 4 caliber comparison and figured I’d try three powders he suggested and work my own charge data. Thank you in advance, I appreciate your kind response!
@@IR8GRANDSRT8 I actually have two 7mm PRC rifles. The Seekins, which was the upgrade, and a Ruger American Go Wild. Both the Ruger and the Seekins have LOVED H1000 and the 175gr ELD-X. I tried developing a load for the 195gr Berger EOL over Retumbo in the Ruger rifle, which has a 24", like most 7mm PRC's, and I couldn't get the velocity where i wanted it to be. It was fantastically accurate though. Another .2MOA grouping load. All loads were developed with ADG brass. It's pretty good stuff, I just don't think it's worth what they sell it for. Upon unboxing, which keep in mind that the brass ships in nice plastic ammo boxes, and has foam on top to keep the necks in good shape, I found that every single neck was out of round. They also had excessive neck tension, so, I had to run them over the expander ball anyway. The weight variation between cases wasn't as tight as it should have been, and the neck wall thickness wasn't nearly as consistent as cheaper brass. Basically, it was Hornady quality brass at more that Lapua pricing. That said, once I got the necks rounded, and turned them all to a consistent thickness, it has performed as you would expect a premium brass to perform. The primer pockets are great, and I believe they will last a long, long time. I wrote a full, in depth review on Bullet Central if you're interested in reading it. With the Seekins, I am using H1000 with the 175gr ELD-X, and Ramshot Grand for the 195gr Berger. My MagnetoSpeed tells me i'm at 2988 on the ELD-X, and 2930 on the Berger. I did run into a little bit of high pressure signs at the book max charge of Ramshot Grand when I did my ladder test. But, I found a node that had a 2fps spread between shots, that did group sub-moa, but, I want it to be tighter, so I'm still tweaking that load. I will say, the velocity gain from a 24" to a 26" barrel wasn't as significant as I had hoped it would be, but, that Seekins is just something else. My "fouling" group with it was .6", lol.
Having a leopold 5hd 3x15x44 with the cds system, im going to need a round that has the correct fps on the box. With the cds turret installed that hornady ammo will not be correct turret adjustment. I do have 4 boxes of federal 7mm prc i havnt been able to try yet.
For this to be an accurate comparison, the actual velocities for each cartridge should be compared, not the actual of just the 7PRC and the rest what the velocities say on the box for all the other cartridges. Especially for Hornady ammunition.
can you do an actual velocity comparison of all 3 PRC cartridges? because I think hornady's response to this was the powder change after the cartridge was released.
I think their load data was developed with Reloder 26, as I can get within 50 fps with a 22" barrel, when I load a max'ish load of 26 under a 180. I suspect they are running 4831SC currently; but I haven't pulled any bullets from my new lots. I had to push 4831SC over max published loads to get close to get within 100 fps. I finally found some H1000 and Retumbo a few months ago, but haven't loaded anything with it yet. Fingers crossed.
Do you have any drift numbers at a mile between the 7mm and 300? I'll tell you why. Drop I can manage (I like the better energy numbers of the 300), but less drift in a round would definitely take away some of the guess work. Thanks.
Hey buddy, just to let you know too. There has been other things put out on TH-cam like you’re doing where they have put it up against the 7 mm WSM and use the same white bullets and the 7 mm WSM Beat it and I I’m not mistaken. They were using one 95 burgers is either 175 or 195 burgers.
I was going to originally build a 300 prc but but after the whole Sammi reamer to close to the die size and needing a aw2 reamer to clean it up I’m staying away from all the prc right now. 300 wm throated for 215 Berger’s still run 3k out of a 26” tube.
@@WHOTEEWHO me too just don’t own one borrowed a buddies because my axis 270 had a firing pin failure 😡. Luckily buddy tagged out that morning and let me borrow his 7 mag 3 days later bought a tikka 6.5 Creedmoor
7prc is a superior case design and will outperform the 7 Rem mag with the heavy high bc projectiles. We're talking over the counter saami spec guns. The 7Rem can be custom built to hurl those heavies just as well or maybe better but only in a custom properly built gun
7mm PRC I'm sure it is a good round. Will it catch on? Will ammo be available 15 years from now? hmmmm I learned my lesson when the WSSM stuff came out 20 years ago. It is really hard to reinvent the wheel.
I wouldn't say it's an overrated cartridge just based on this info. Many advertised velocities are faster than what you would typically get out of an average rifle, but there are many variables to consider. What are the real chronographed velocities of the 300wm, 300prc, 6.5prc? If those velocities are much lower too, the 7prc may come back out on top. Also, what were the test barrels for the box ammo? I'd be willing to bet the test barrels for the 300wm, 300prc and 7prc were 26" where as 6.5prc may have been 24". Also, what are all of these cartridges capable of? Meaning if you were to load your own ammo, could you realistically push those bullets faster than what the box says? I guess to really tell which one is "the best" is to build identical rifles chambered in these different cartriges with the same barrel lenths and put them head to head with box ammo and with hand loads working up to max pressures. Regardless, every cartrige has its purpose. The best mile long paper puncher might not be better than the best 800 yard elk cartridge. The way I decide a cartridge is pick a bullet dia and weight I want to shoot, pick the speed I want to send it, pick a cartridge thats capable of doing it.
Gun manufacturers market new calibers by trying to get people to believe a cartridge answers a question... that doesn't exist. In this case it seems they tried to jump onto a question that was asked and answered by the 7mm WSM... except for the lawsuit. If I am not mistaken, the 7mm WSM beats all three in the video. There has to be enough separation to make the 7mm Rem go away. The PRC doesn't do that and is further hurt by the 6.5prc being so close.
I have found that even in my 26 inch barrel that the velocities still run short and I've not been able to reach "factory velocities" even by handloading without ruining accuracy and hammering the brass. For me the 7 PRC is no better as a hunting cartridge than the 7 Remington. I do like the cartridge and choose it over the Rem because I am a handloader and favor the beltless case. I think that over all it's a good round as long as we don't try to make it out to be something it's not, a vastly superior round to the 7 Rem Mag.
I always have a problem with charts because you never really know what your rifle shoots well until you shoot it. Hornady did have box velocity on their first loads. After changing powder and losing the velocity advertised, they really are not reliable. Their excuses are poor ones. I think that they were using Reloader 26 and quit using it more for higher profit margins myself. Accurate Powder has gone up more than other powder and used to be more cost friendly. I could be wrong maybe Accurate wants to have powder for reloaders vs. letting ammo makers get it all. But I don't think so. I see that Accurate Reloader 26 is readily available now, but the price is higher than I want to pay for it. Maybe higher than Hornady wants to pay for it. Best thing to do is reload your own to get the velocity you want. That is what I do. Hornady factory ammo does shoot a little over sub-MOA in my rifle. I just will play with it awhile to get a better load. Nice video it did show even not getting box ammo it will do well on the longer shots.
The way i see it the best advantage of a 7PRC is hand loading with COPPER (NON-LEAD) over a 7RM. As well as the advantage of being a Non-Belted case. The higher weight Non-Lead Projectiles being far Longer often you will compress a Warm load in factory rifle that a Lead bullet would not. Having the longer Freebore prevents powder compression, making 190gr+ non lead projectiles possible.
Adam, I'd like to point out that you criticized the 7MM PRC box rated to the actual according to your testing. I do understand that. Then you base your entire presentation on the "BOX" rated velocity of the Other calibers against the "ACTUAL" values of the 7MM PRC. If the 7MM PRC values are wrong on the box, why do you accept the "BOX" values of the other calibers and then use them against your actual tested value of the 7MM PRC? I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I am a long-time subscriber of your channel and enjoy your content. I just don't know what you tried to do here. Additionally, Hornady and Remington are NOT the only manufacturers of these calibers. For Example, Federal has a higher rating for velocity than both Hornady and Remington.
I agree with some of the comments. Your video just shows that hornady ammo is not made as per the box. It doesn't show that the 7prc is bad. Find ammo that shoots the speed as per the box and you'll get the performance you originally had.
The original 7mm prc velocities were developed with Reloder 26 powder made by Alliant Powder. Vista Outdoors is the importer of all Alliant Powders and also owns Federal Ammunition. Recently Vista put out a statement that all unfilled Alliant Powder orders were being canceled. If any ammunition company is going to get Alliant powder in these times of war it is gong to be Federal. Hornady is a small ammunition company but also competes with Federal but needs that Reloder 26 to meet the original specs. This turns into a simple competion issue between companies and Vista controls who going to get Alliant powder if there is any to go around. Handloaders are going to be the ones that'll get the PRC to original velocities as they'll be able to tune loads to their rifle over factory ammo.
I've got 3 7 rem mag rifles. One is a 40x , one is a custom long throat single shot long action and the other one is a Wayne York custom. I think if u want to go out due the 7prc is the long throat one in a 7 mag
Thanks for putting the numbers together WTW. Like everything else it's all marketing hype. I'll stick with old skool classics that have been around for short of ever.
Don’t ever trust the velocity on the box. Don’t trust the velocity in reloading manuals either. You need to chrono everything. Reload your own ammunition to get the best performance.😊
Damn right! I almost NEVER get stated velocity out of the manual. Hell, I've got several manuals that show waaay different load data in the same components with different results.
Ya, I don't trust any velocity data in Hornady's reloading books! Nosler and Berger yes!!!!! Hornady hell no!!
Also faster doesn't always means better. Some projectiles have ideal velocity range and you should strive for that, for maximum damage inflicted.
@@trentsnaza3372 Sierra is also fairly close with their velocities. But hornady is really not even close to real life velocity
@francoisbuys8783 yes they are! You are correct
The video actually demonstrated that 7PRC is not over rated but Hornady ammo is, as evidenced by Federal factory ammo loaded with 175 ELDX bullets. I'm getting right at 3000fps with it.
Preach it! Brother!!!!!!!!
@@kerryfalls3292 I yam I yam!
Yep yep. I got some better velocity and groups using Federal’s 7 mag load. Hornady may still lead the pack in advertising and marketing though.
In 308 the box says 2600 fps 178edlx. My chronograph says that’s what it shoots. I wonder why the 7prc is so far off. Maybe barrel length is the difference.
@@randysmith8604 Don't think so. Hornady developed the 7PRC, as I understand it, with a 24" barrel in mind. The repeated answer we get from Hornady is that when they first tested ammo, they secured quite a bit of Reloder 26 powder. Thus, box billed velocities were accurate at 2950 to 3000fps ELDM, ELDX. They ran out of powder, tested more powders, got good velocities with some but accuracy lacked. Went with a more consistent powder for accuracy but velocity suffered. Hornady didn't bother to change labels with updated velocities.
Hornady has a bunch of egg on their face right now. Not changing the advertised velocity when they admittedly knew it had dropped is really dishonest.
If your not using chronograph data your not comparing apples to apples, so until you remove the not proven box data your still guessing. In reality most hunters, who break out their rifles a few times a year could not shoot a 1 MOA group at a hundred yards when Backfire sat for two days taking any and all who were sure they could do it, much less shooting at 300 to 400 yards.
100%
Hornady is really dishonest anyways, they will lie, cheat and steal to sell their products. Back around 2005. I asked them to make me a custom round, they made it and then claimed the credit for it, even though I'm the one that thought of it. .
@@takedeadaim8671 I agree with you but the manufacturers have an obligation to give the most accurate information possible on the box.
100%, they lost my business for pulling that!
I just watched a guy test a 6.5 PRC Bergara rifle with Hornady Precision Hunter ammo 143 eldx. His velocity was 2830ish. Box velocity was like 2960 if I remember correctly. It’s not a cartridge problem but a Hornady ammunition problem.
@Yettiattackpeople are getting close to box velocity with Federal loaded ammo in 7prc. The Hornady ammo has been incredibly slow due to the fact they cannot get RL26 anymore. Any Hornady Precision Hunter ammo I have ran across a chrono has been around 100 fps slower or more in 4 different cartridges I have shot it from. All my barrels are 24” and use standard twist rates.
Hornady is having powder troubles. Can't get the good stuff. If you use federal terminal ascent or federal ELDX, 7MM PRC will rock your world! Hopefully hornady can get things sorted out.
Unfortunately the powder issue is gonna get worse according to other folks in the industry. Better get what you can now no matter the caliber.
I do not understand why federal has correct powder but hornady doesn't why?
Federal just happened to buy way more being a bigger company and when Covid hit the powder Industry shut down and is barely catching up as well as the government buying up components.
Wait till Federal gets to sell all their business to a Czechoslovakian investor and see how tough it is to get anything.
If by, "rock your world", you mean equal a 7mm rem mag, then yes.
The 7prc is marginally more optimized to the 7mag, and Hornady if they want to salvage reputation, print new boxes with correct velocities
Hornady gets yet another kick in the balls over their current factory load velocities for the 7PRC. And well, I guess they should. But the Federal 7PRC ammo loaded with Hornady bullets gets much closer to the advertised velocity. As a handloader I couldn't care less about Hornady's factory load velocity. What I care about is handload velocity potential - in addition to the accuracy potential of the cartridge. I don't have a 7PRC, but I bet you could get a little tighter groups with it than the 7 Rem Mag with carefully developed handloads. Not saying the 7 Rem Mag isn't capable of great accuracy or that anyone necessarily needs a 7PRC, but it's nice to have a new choice that's not a belted cartridge from the 1960's.
My thoughts exactly
My Bergara shoots 3/4 or better if I do my part. That’s with multiple powder weights with the 180 eld m bullets. I just like the fact that there’s no stupid belt on the thing.
Ask the hundred + animals taken with my 33 yr old A bolt 7 rem mag if the belt mattered. Lol.
Load your own. The only way to get repeatable loads.
Agree but repeatable really has nothing to do with Hornady and how they have handle this.
@michaelthrelkeld212 So the first loads were at advertised speeds. The rest weren't. None of this would affect me, but that's the lack of repeatability, that I referenced.
The hatians say get a job.
Thanks for all your help and hard work you're doing. Not to worry over Hornady's cartridges, there are some good people who work there, somehow, they end up going down that rabbit hole; or are digging a hole and not know when to stop digging.
Seems like everybody is fast-tracking everything, it's all about who's going to be first.
You keep doing what you do, you're doing a fine job my friend.
Blessings your way.
Thanks for watching
I’m getting 3010fps with the 175gr eldx out of my 7rem mag (26 inch 1-8.4 twist) this cartridge really does nothing others don’t already do. It’s just marketing hype. Cheers for the video mate
A 26 is really impractical in the field with a can. What off the shelf gun is coming with that barrel? PRCs are coming factory set up for the job. That's the point
@@loganmorton9304 belt reloading sucks
@@ChiquitaSpeaks why? The belt is ignored.
@@loganmorton9304 it’s well noted how the belt can become an issue for reloading
@@ChiquitaSpeaks How so?? Please educate all us handloaders. Use big words. We're smart.
Ron Spomer channel just did a video explaining some of the issues Hornady is having getting the correct powders...
They aren’t having a problem man they are skimping on purpose to rob Americans to load ammo for the war machine lol wake up.
As a hunter, I agree, it doesn’t matter. 98% of all game is taken within 250 yards. If it gets people interested in shooting, great. However, 7 REM mag still works and no one figures head space off the rim anymore so that does not matter. Actually the 7mm-08 makes so much sense for hunting at less than 300 yards for hunting.
Very cool video, wish you would have put the 6.8 Western in the chart
So in a nutshell, don’t put your 7 rem mag in the closet just yet.
I like 7mm mag better
10-4 on that !
If it's still more common in the stores it's still better. Handloading is always excluded but you always have to consider the availability in case of a hunting ammo emergency. 7mm prc will not be on the shelf in the middle of nowhere mom and pop shop
The tested and proved 7mag will always be tops
Which sounds better 7 mm Remington mag or a 7mm prissy
You DID put a smile on my face. New stuff is fun and all but it doesn't change the fact that most game is taken at well under 300yds. I'm just a hunter and I believe it is still called hunting, not shooting. My 30-06 suits me fine.
👍👍 yup
I watched a video from Big Game Hunting Blog about the same subject and he mentioned that Hornady change their initial propellent due to lack of production. And Hornady said in their email that the new propellent has reduced the velocity between 5 and 175 feet. So he ordered the Federal ammo and gave him the right top speed velocity. I recommend you watch that video.
Great job and cheers from Canada!
Besides the powder issue, Hornady said they use MINIMUM Saami spec test barrels to get published velocities. So they give themselves the best opportunity to get the highest velocities. If I have a rifle that has a barrel in the middle of the chamber spec allowance, it’ll be hard to get their velocities.
Every company uses the best possible SAAMI barrel for their velocities. The only ammo I’ve ever had that met published velocities is 5.56 ammo out of my 20” A2 clone.
It's not just the 7mm prc that has affected velocitie with there ammo its others of there loadings in calibers. Wats the chronographed velocity on the remington ammo vs their box claims?
Spelling and rithmatic. Buy some and find out.
This made me laugh. I NEVER trust what a box says. This is why I started reloading decades ago and excising my chronograph I am 65. I started hunting deer and above, at age 12. My Dad always was an advocate of shoot game as close as you can. He said it takes a lot of guess work out of it. I agree. Dad was a multi-generational Texan, I am a 7th gen Texan! I cannot count the number of deer I have harvested at 30-30 ranges! I live in the brush country in South Texas, 60 miles from the Mexican border. The vegetation and terrain variances preclude long shots. I have a buck down to a 30-30 that was over 225 pounds, plus or minus to a 30-30. Blew his heart out. If you are shooting game at a mile, you are WRONG. You need to check your ethics at the door and accept your ass whipping now. Most people are NOT military grade snipers! Sure, lots of folks shoot well, I get it, however, if you have not been to sniper school, check your ego at the door, grab some semblance of respect for the game animals, and get with the program. Hunting IS NOT sniping! A target is NOT a game animal. Respect the animal, please. You stated the obvious up front. KNOW where you are placing the bullet, PLACING, the bullet.
People forget this way too easily. When tryingbto test their limits, they should be on a range. My grandfather always said, "have enough respect for the game you hunt to kill it as quickly and efficiently as possible. If you can't do that, leave your guns at home."
Last time I checked out your channel, you had 80K subs. Now you have 550K? Holy shit man! Happy to see you have come so far. Cheers!
Thanks so much. I'm working hard at it. Where u been? 🤣
Good video!
7mm Remington mag for hunting 👍
7PRC for hitting steel at 1 mile 👍
Especially if you use a 28 or 30 inch barrel.
Yeah you put a smile on my face by mentioning 30-06. I just shot one with 180 gr federal soft point and what a wallop!!! The 308 is still a tack driver at 300 for me though. Even though it's a semi auto we got better dope on the bullet drop and I hit the smallest steel every time!! Thanks Adam I watch your videos every night
Good information . 2 things to keep in mind though . 1- this is worse case scenario when it comes to bullet speed , federal is getting near 3000 with it for example , and hand loaders have taken it over 3000 . Second is the effect the high BC has on wind drift (which is imo much more important than drop as it’s much harder to predict even with the best tech out there ) food for thought
Hornady saw the 6.8 Western as the 7mm PRC competitor and made the numbers look better.
Will Hornady ever start producing 6.8 Western
@@peterluttgens3364 They have flat-out said "No!"
That's not what happened but ok lol
Pretty much.
6.8 western is the most overrated round in the last 20 years. Almost zero gain over the ancient 270 and doesn't fit in true short actions
I watch Reloading Weatherby, and i'm really liking the underrated 6.8 Western. It deserves a lot more love than this turd Hornady cartridge has been getting
6.8 western has zero industry support
I have a270 wsm that I’m having the 1:10 barrel replaced with a 1:8 barrel then I can shoot the heavy for caliber bullets as well!
@@forrestebert5276 no 270 wsm brass avail, most of the factory ammo is very old stock, except for norma. I think the cartage is almost dead.
@@eggbert191 it should have
Its a great cartridge
@@eggbert191
That’s starting to change… ADG brass company claims they will start producing brass by the end of this year and should be available for consumers shortly after that. Finally, we’ll see some quality brass over Olin.
Barnes, Nosler, Sierra, Berger, Winchester, Browning are all producing bullets for the 6.8 Western with high BC. Choice Ammunition wrote me that Hammer will be coming out with an all copper bullet for the 6.8 Western as well.
Browning, Winchester, Christensen Arms, Fierce, and Seekins are all producing rifles for the Western as well.
It’s starting to pick up steam.
It’s an excellent cartridge
Great info thank you, do not trust the box, drop can be compensated for. velocity,andn energy is what kills. What do those numbers look like??
You should do a review on the Cabela’s brand scopes. I have several on different rifles and i think they are a great option for people on a budget. They go on sale a lot during the holidays, my opinion best bang for your buck optics
The mile long shot is not a concern to me because I can get within a couple hundred yards by stalking and much closer by choosing a good place for my stand.
So, do I need a 7PRC for hunting? Not if I have ammo for my 7x57, lol!
Great video, it certainly shows an incredible amount of work! And your conclusions reinforced the old adage, “Never believe the numbers printed on the box!” Thanks for sharing!
I’m glad so much new stuff can’t wait for the 30-30 prc arc 😊
I bought a Weatherby Vanguard Outfitter in 6.5 PRC today and a Bushnell 5 x 30 Match Pro Mil/Mil scope and can't wait to get it to the range, hopefully it does not disappoint.
My question is 300 PRC versus the seven PRC both using a 180 bullet using the same powder how would that compare? I don’t own neither one.
And now we know why Hornady isnt loading or supporting the 6.8 Western because in the real world its quite close to the 7 PRC and it beats the 6.5 PRC in all categories. The 7 Rem mag actually beats the 7 PRC with all bullets up to the 175 and 180 class until the slower twist barrel and cartridge OAL limits it to go further. Who's shooting beyond 1000 yds or catching game beyond 600 anyway?
Three questions. Did you chronograph the other caliber Hornady rounds to see if they matched the claimed velocities? Is Hornady's claimed velocity based on a 24 inch barrel? And finally, did you actually shoot at those distances to confirm the drop in inches? But, you make a good point about claimed velocity affecting the ballistic performance.
Mate, reload and get a 26 to 30-inch barrel, and it outshines. I have a heavy 30-inch 1m tac-driver in 7mm PRC. Very Very! Happy with the results. It's not the cartridge that is the issue!
Yes! Dont understand the concept with big case small caliber and a short barrel.
Regardless of the reason the velocity of their factory ammo does not meet their advertised speed, Hornady should have gotten in front of this and been honest and not waited for vloggers to find out first and publish it. I would hope someone high enough up the ladder there has been held accountable for the poor decision making involved. For folks looking for a great apples to apples comparison of 7mm options, check out Little Crow Gun Works series using one bullet and the same powders for 280AI, 7 Rem, 7prc and Nosler 28. The videos are long and in depth, so pack a lunch lol
Absolutely a great series on 7mm rounds. Some people could use some education with stupid comments with their bs facts. Just say'n
I have noticed that several Hornady loadings are not what the box claims.. Deceptive.. Hopefully your thumb is getting better 👍
I remember asking you to do a campaign of hats a month or two ago!! Im going to be buying one this coming week. Thanks for finally getting on it. I bring up your channel alot while talking about firearms at work with the guys!
3006 for life. Everything else is just a new fad
Hats been for sale for 2 years I just forget to tell people about it
@@WHOTEEWHO oh crap lol. Well. They are pretty sweet man!
I'll stick with my 30.06 great job dude great info loved the upside-down box that we all love about your videos there not edited like others are keep up the good work dude
Did you chronograph all the other ammunition also? I'll bet they are slightly lower than the boxes say too. Not as bad as hornady, but lower.
Federal has the right velocity but of course the company that owns federal owns Aliant powder which Hornady probably uses reloader 26 which is practically impossible to find.
that makes absolute sense. there isn't a lot of rl-26 to go around and if the company can source direct from a sister company they can keep the velocities where they should be. and being sibling companies federal would have 1st priority.
This explains why i dont use Hornady ammo. The issue isn't the cartridge. it's the Hornady ammo. The Federal Factory ammo using Hornady ELDX bullets folks have chronoed that near 3000 fps. Also, keep in mind folks reloading their own ammo are at or exceeding 3,000 fps, too, for their 7 PRC rifles.
I am 2880fps from a 22” barrel with 195gr berger eols
I do that with 280ai...,with a lot less powder and recoil.
Thank you for doing more content on this cartridge. I watch all I can find on it. Now this is just me, but, a hundred or so fps slower than the label says doesn't matter to me. I care about accuracy. I don't shoot those distances anyway. If you set your rifle up to shoot where you want, with the ammo it likes, should be all good. I don't currently have a rifle in any 7mm, but I'll be getting one in 7mm PRC as soon as I can. Thanks to your video on the Mossberg, I'm considering that one over the rest right now.
at 14:50 you addressed what I was about to say lol. Are all of those other numbers ACTUAL or box numbers? Then you followed it up with even more of what I was going to say... Placement > cartridge (mostly) and there's a reason there's a great debate about all of these rounds. I went with a 7PRC simply because I made the transition from a 30 cal down to a 7 for higher BC and I didn't want to deal with the belt for reloading the rem mag. Is it the best cartridge out there? Doubt it, but it suits my needs.
I may not be an expert But I do shoot a lot and compete a good bit. I’ve found it’s amazing how different barrels can shoot drastically different speeds I believe the cambering tolerances can make a barrel shoot faster or slower. 🤷♂️
All new cartridges are over-rated. They have to do this in order to stimulate new rifle and ammo sales. Thats just how things work. Us old geezers have heard these claims multiple times over our years. Thanks for the vid.
very in depth info on ammo brotha adam , awesome stuff indeed , i am learning lots , you keep em coming , thanks > tom !
Once I went all copper (Barnes) I never went back to lead. I like 7mm but am a 243 guy so 6mm. 80 grains at 3350 fps is all I need 😁. I like the old calibers with the new bullets/projectiles. Am also huge fan of 300 win mag. Honestly, what can't I do with those 2 calibers in North America?
Are you comparing actual 7prc velocity againt box posted from the others? Im sure the others are also 100-150 fps slower as well. Out of 22" barrel 6.5 creedmoor, im getting about 130 fps slower than advertised on 143 eldx.
Old guy with the belt buckle here. Yes you put a smile on my face with the .270 comment, but I did go and get me a new Ruger American in 7mm-08 for this fall deer season. Keep up the videos they are awesome.
Thanks for another great video. Did you ever get any response from the power company about the damage to your food plot?
Yes they are going to help
I got great results with Federal’s ELD-X offering in 7mm rem mag. About 100 fps hotter than Hornady’s and well under an inch at 100.
Love your videos! Interesting data. I'm not good enough for this cartridge. All I need is a 30-06, but I still enjoy the show
270 wsm is my next choice already have the 270 win love it
It’s not just Hornady that doesn’t hit the box velocity. That’s a common thing among most companies. Try the chrono on the rem, fed, win....... and the list goes on. It’s not uncommon for them to fall 100+ fps short from what I’ve seen. The best improvement the 7 prc has in my opinion is case design and getting rid of the belt with brass that should last longer for the reloader. IMO 😊
Federal shows 2,950 for the 170 grain terminal ascent I have got over 3,000 in a 24 inch barrel so not true hornady ammo is the issue not the caliber
@@Matt-en1kn I’ve seen federal miss the velocity on other cartridges. Not just the 7 prc. One of my friends was really disappointed in some 270 wsm loads from federal. He sent them back to federal and they refunded or replaced them I don’t remember. I don’t think it’s just a certain cartridge or brand. Some of the Remington in the 300 win mag was a couple hundred fps below box velocity for my uncle also. The Winchester loads was really close on velocity in the same gun on the same day. I might be wrong but that’s been my limited experience. Happy hunting and good luck.
@Off-target-xy6bx I also have a 270wsm the federal fusions was close for me also maybe it varies from lot to lot
That's why I reload my own for every caliber I own. I spend the time to work up a load the each gun likes, weather it be slow or fast, light or heavy, then I set my calculations on my scope to that and go for it. Has served me well. Longest shot so far was 730 yards for a clean kill. A couple on deer at 600 plus yards.
Who tee who, what thermal do you recommend??? Placing on a 06 or 243. Thanks.
DNT
Since you are comparing actual 7 PRC data to advertised box data for the 300 and 6.5 PRC I will bet they dont stack up either. I have a 7mm PRC.
Thanks for another great video.
Did you use the box numbers for the rest of the ammunition? If you did maybe they'd have different numbers too ? Just a thought. Im sure every manufacturer uses the optimum barrel length and conditions for their numbers
I talk about that in the video
@@WHOTEEWHO
You do
Whoteewho I completely agree with shot placement over the rest of the crap! Thanks! God bless y'all
Hello, I live in western Canada, I have a new Tikka ss T3X 6.5 creedmoor. I plan to use it for moose, elk and deer and I will use a good bonded bullet. My choice is either Federal Terminal Ascent (130 gr.) or Accubond LR (142 gr.). Could you do an accuracy test to compare these bullets. I know they are very equal in performance on big game but there isn't much information out there giving a real accuracy comparison. Thanks
Are you going off box for all the other calibers ? Or actually chrono numbers
It's also one of those areas you should be careful what you wish for. Yes it's irritating that Hornady isn't upfront about their velocities, but I was shooting the 7 PRC Precision Hunter ammo and enjoying superb accuracy and reasonable recoil (for me anyway). Then I found out about the velocity issue, bought a chronograph and yes, it was shooting in the mid 2800s. So I bought Federal loaded ELDX bullets and sure enough, they averaged 3005 fps. But they turned the gun into much more of a mule to shoot which affects accuracy if Im not careful. So like I said be careful what you wish for...😄🙄
WTW would you try the federal ammo for the 7 PRC? Before I open my new rifle LOL; Love your vids see all of them, keep it up man, you rock!
WTW can you put the 6.5 Western up against is with all ya data 😢
I think you should test the 6.5mm, 7mm and .300 PRC velocities by shooting more rounds than 1 and averaging them.
Is the Case Capacity Large enough on 7 PRC for world class Performance? Blow 7 Mag and other 7mm Away? Weatherby , 28 Nosler. 7 RUM
If we do our own loads it's going to be as advertised, but clearly not what's on the box. It seems (to me) clear that Hornady fudged the box numbers just to edge out the 6.8 Western. Not getting rid of my 7mm PRC, or my 7mm Rem Mag, but now it's likely that I'll be ordering a 6.8 Western barrel for the ol' Desert Tech.
I have no idea why Hornady is advertising something that is just blatantly untrue. Allegedly, the first run of Hornady 7mm PRC Precision Hunter/Match actually had numbers similar to the box. Ron Spomer did a video on it not long ago, and his lot of ammo was within 30fps (if I remember correctly) of the box numbers.
7mm PRC is truly a hand loader's dream. I just put together a load for my Seekins Precision Havak PH2 in 7mm PRC and I found a node at 2988 FPS average, with a 4fps spread between shots, with the 175gr ELD-X, and it printed .17MOA at 100. I have another load that I'm finalizing with the 195gr Berger EOL, and its running 2930fps average with a 2fps spread between shots. It was Sub MOA for sure, but I know it's capable of better than "just sub-moa."
Great video as always, man. I think it may be a bit unfair to say the cartridge is overrated, but, it's a FACT that Hornady 7mm PRC ammo is just junk. I believe that Federal is running close to 3,000 on the box, and it's pretty close to that over the chronograph from what I have seen.
The biggest advantage to the 7mm PRC vs Rem Mag is just that the PRC rifles by default come with the fast twist barrels for those long, high bc bullets. BUT, you are 100% correct, that there is no real advantage to 7mm PRC inside 300 yards. The PRC will have more energy, but, whitetails are only recommended to need 1000 ft/lb to take adequately. There's a whole mess of cartridges that will do that!
I sure wouldn’t mind picking your brain on your load data, I just picked up the very same rifle and have about 3/4 the needed setup to begin reloading.
@@IR8GRANDSRT8 I'll be completely honest with you, man. I don't share load data strictly for Liability reasons. I can tell you what components I'm using, but I can't share Charge weights or OAL. I'd be more than glad to walk you through some of the processes that I go through to find the most accurate loads, though.
I completely understand, I am looking more for what powders you’ve found success in regards to accuracy and velocity with which bullets, the charge I can work up to no problem. There’s so many powders that “work” for the 7PRC but finding that great one to three can be quite spendy. Since you have same platform I figured I’d hit you up. I’ve been watching Little Crow Gun Works 4 caliber comparison and figured I’d try three powders he suggested and work my own charge data. Thank you in advance, I appreciate your kind response!
@@IR8GRANDSRT8 I actually have two 7mm PRC rifles. The Seekins, which was the upgrade, and a Ruger American Go Wild. Both the Ruger and the Seekins have LOVED H1000 and the 175gr ELD-X. I tried developing a load for the 195gr Berger EOL over Retumbo in the Ruger rifle, which has a 24", like most 7mm PRC's, and I couldn't get the velocity where i wanted it to be. It was fantastically accurate though. Another .2MOA grouping load.
All loads were developed with ADG brass. It's pretty good stuff, I just don't think it's worth what they sell it for. Upon unboxing, which keep in mind that the brass ships in nice plastic ammo boxes, and has foam on top to keep the necks in good shape, I found that every single neck was out of round. They also had excessive neck tension, so, I had to run them over the expander ball anyway. The weight variation between cases wasn't as tight as it should have been, and the neck wall thickness wasn't nearly as consistent as cheaper brass. Basically, it was Hornady quality brass at more that Lapua pricing. That said, once I got the necks rounded, and turned them all to a consistent thickness, it has performed as you would expect a premium brass to perform. The primer pockets are great, and I believe they will last a long, long time. I wrote a full, in depth review on Bullet Central if you're interested in reading it.
With the Seekins, I am using H1000 with the 175gr ELD-X, and Ramshot Grand for the 195gr Berger. My MagnetoSpeed tells me i'm at 2988 on the ELD-X, and 2930 on the Berger. I did run into a little bit of high pressure signs at the book max charge of Ramshot Grand when I did my ladder test. But, I found a node that had a 2fps spread between shots, that did group sub-moa, but, I want it to be tighter, so I'm still tweaking that load. I will say, the velocity gain from a 24" to a 26" barrel wasn't as significant as I had hoped it would be, but, that Seekins is just something else. My "fouling" group with it was .6", lol.
Preach brother.
What Hornady is doing is BS! Change the labels if you changed the performance
Exactly what they did is criminal and quite frankly theft by deception
As a Wise Captain 🧑✈️ once said... 'I Never trusted Klingons (and Hornady)... Never will...'
Thanks for the Video Adam 👌. Cheers 🇨🇦🍻🙏.
Having a leopold 5hd 3x15x44 with the cds system, im going to need a round that has the correct fps on the box. With the cds turret installed that hornady ammo will not be correct turret adjustment. I do have 4 boxes of federal 7mm prc i havnt been able to try yet.
How accurate is the information on the boxes of other calibers?
For this to be an accurate comparison, the actual velocities for each cartridge should be compared, not the actual of just the 7PRC and the rest what the velocities say on the box for all the other cartridges. Especially for Hornady ammunition.
can you do an actual velocity comparison of all 3 PRC cartridges? because I think hornady's response to this was the powder change after the cartridge was released.
It would be interesting to chrono the other calibers to see if their velocities were also overstated. That might change things drastically
I think their load data was developed with Reloder 26, as I can get within 50 fps with a 22" barrel, when I load a max'ish load of 26 under a 180. I suspect they are running 4831SC currently; but I haven't pulled any bullets from my new lots. I had to push 4831SC over max published loads to get close to get within 100 fps. I finally found some H1000 and Retumbo a few months ago, but haven't loaded anything with it yet. Fingers crossed.
Do you have any drift numbers at a mile between the 7mm and 300? I'll tell you why. Drop I can manage (I like the better energy numbers of the 300), but less drift in a round would definitely take away some of the guess work. Thanks.
Hi Adam
Would live a real world comparison between 7mm Rem Mag and the 7mm PRC.
If Rem mage both in a CorLokt actually velocity would be awesome
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts mate.
I’m already on your side
Hey buddy, just to let you know too. There has been other things put out on TH-cam like you’re doing where they have put it up against the 7 mm WSM and use the same white bullets and the 7 mm WSM Beat it and I I’m not mistaken. They were using one 95 burgers is either 175 or 195 burgers.
Why would you not do a 3 shot sd and average those instead of going off of 1 shot? Just curious
Cuz these videos cost me a fortune
I was going to originally build a 300 prc but but after the whole Sammi reamer to close to the die size and needing a aw2 reamer to clean it up I’m staying away from all the prc right now. 300 wm throated for 215 Berger’s still run 3k out of a 26” tube.
So I already have a 6.5 Creedmoor Tikka what caliber should I get in a cascade a 7 mag or a 300 mag since prc is overrated in your honest opinion?
I like 7 mag
@@WHOTEEWHO me too just don’t own one borrowed a buddies because my axis 270 had a firing pin failure 😡. Luckily buddy tagged out that morning and let me borrow his 7 mag 3 days later bought a tikka 6.5 Creedmoor
Just out of curiosity, how close is the match 6.5 prc to their posted velocity and the same can be said about the 300 prc.
7prc is a superior case design and will outperform the 7 Rem mag with the heavy high bc projectiles. We're talking over the counter saami spec guns. The 7Rem can be custom built to hurl those heavies just as well or maybe better but only in a custom properly built gun
7mm PRC I'm sure it is a good round. Will it catch on? Will ammo be available 15 years from now? hmmmm I learned my lesson when the WSSM stuff came out 20 years ago. It is really hard to reinvent the wheel.
I wouldn't say it's an overrated cartridge just based on this info. Many advertised velocities are faster than what you would typically get out of an average rifle, but there are many variables to consider. What are the real chronographed velocities of the 300wm, 300prc, 6.5prc? If those velocities are much lower too, the 7prc may come back out on top. Also, what were the test barrels for the box ammo? I'd be willing to bet the test barrels for the 300wm, 300prc and 7prc were 26" where as 6.5prc may have been 24". Also, what are all of these cartridges capable of? Meaning if you were to load your own ammo, could you realistically push those bullets faster than what the box says? I guess to really tell which one is "the best" is to build identical rifles chambered in these different cartriges with the same barrel lenths and put them head to head with box ammo and with hand loads working up to max pressures. Regardless, every cartrige has its purpose. The best mile long paper puncher might not be better than the best 800 yard elk cartridge. The way I decide a cartridge is pick a bullet dia and weight I want to shoot, pick the speed I want to send it, pick a cartridge thats capable of doing it.
Gun manufacturers market new calibers by trying to get people to believe a cartridge answers a question... that doesn't exist. In this case it seems they tried to jump onto a question that was asked and answered by the 7mm WSM... except for the lawsuit. If I am not mistaken, the 7mm WSM beats all three in the video.
There has to be enough separation to make the 7mm Rem go away. The PRC doesn't do that and is further hurt by the 6.5prc being so close.
I have found that even in my 26 inch barrel that the velocities still run short and I've not been able to reach "factory velocities" even by handloading without ruining accuracy and hammering the brass. For me the 7 PRC is no better as a hunting cartridge than the 7 Remington. I do like the cartridge and choose it over the Rem because I am a handloader and favor the beltless case. I think that over all it's a good round as long as we don't try to make it out to be something it's not, a vastly superior round to the 7 Rem Mag.
Those velocities are criminal!
What speeds did you get with the cut ammo
Didn't chrono it yet. Need to
Please I have 2 boxes on back order
I always have a problem with charts because you never really know what your rifle shoots well until you shoot it. Hornady did have box velocity on their first loads. After changing powder and losing the velocity advertised, they really are not reliable. Their excuses are poor ones. I think that they were using Reloader 26 and quit using it more for higher profit margins myself. Accurate Powder has gone up more than other powder and used to be more cost friendly. I could be wrong maybe Accurate wants to have powder for reloaders vs. letting ammo makers get it all. But I don't think so. I see that Accurate Reloader 26 is readily available now, but the price is higher than I want to pay for it. Maybe higher than Hornady wants to pay for it. Best thing to do is reload your own to get the velocity you want. That is what I do. Hornady factory ammo does shoot a little over sub-MOA in my rifle. I just will play with it awhile to get a better load. Nice video it did show even not getting box ammo it will do well on the longer shots.
The way i see it the best advantage of a 7PRC is hand loading with COPPER (NON-LEAD) over a 7RM. As well as the advantage of being a Non-Belted case. The higher weight Non-Lead Projectiles being far Longer often you will compress a Warm load in factory rifle that a Lead bullet would not. Having the longer Freebore prevents powder compression, making 190gr+ non lead projectiles possible.
I'd like to see the 6.5 and 7mm prc vs 6.5x300 wby and 6.8. Western. Maybe even 270 and 7mm wsm as well.
With the real velocity not what’s on the box
Adam, I'd like to point out that you criticized the 7MM PRC box rated to the actual according to your testing. I do understand that. Then you base your entire presentation on the "BOX" rated velocity of the Other calibers against the "ACTUAL" values of the 7MM PRC. If the 7MM PRC values are wrong on the box, why do you accept the "BOX" values of the other calibers and then use them against your actual tested value of the 7MM PRC? I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I am a long-time subscriber of your channel and enjoy your content. I just don't know what you tried to do here. Additionally, Hornady and Remington are NOT the only manufacturers of these calibers. For Example, Federal has a higher rating for velocity than both Hornady and Remington.
Yup I talk about that in the video 👍👍
Gotta watch the entire video
I agree with some of the comments. Your video just shows that hornady ammo is not made as per the box. It doesn't show that the 7prc is bad. Find ammo that shoots the speed as per the box and you'll get the performance you originally had.
What was the Velocity on the Remington ammo??
Didn't try yet
The original 7mm prc velocities were developed with Reloder 26 powder made by Alliant Powder. Vista Outdoors is the importer of all Alliant Powders and also owns Federal Ammunition. Recently Vista put out a statement that all unfilled Alliant Powder orders were being canceled. If any ammunition company is going to get Alliant powder in these times of war it is gong to be Federal. Hornady is a small ammunition company but also competes with Federal but needs that Reloder 26 to meet the original specs. This turns into a simple competion issue between companies and Vista controls who going to get Alliant powder if there is any to go around. Handloaders are going to be the ones that'll get the PRC to original velocities as they'll be able to tune loads to their rifle over factory ammo.
I've got 3 7 rem mag rifles. One is a 40x , one is a custom long throat single shot long action and the other one is a Wayne York custom. I think if u want to go out due the 7prc is the long throat one in a 7 mag
Thanks for putting the numbers together WTW. Like everything else it's all marketing hype. I'll stick with old skool classics that have been around for short of ever.