Using the Roland TD-27kv On Gigs!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2023
- I finally used the Roland TD-27kv (version 1) on some gigs. The results were exactly the opposite of what I thought they would be! The lesson for me is that the only way to REALLY know how good a certain piece of gear is, is to USE it1
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I had the same experience. Sounding great in a small venue but feeling lost in a bigger venue with a bass player who can compete with the bottom. So I started using a Mackie 15’ Thump and Behringer Eurolive PA/Monitor speaker that give more presence to everyone on stage.
Thanks for your story regarding this matter!
Sir I can’t thank you enough for your profound statement regarding the ‘gear’. So many drummers let what the fans perceive as a drum kit dictate what they size kit they play. ‘It’s not the drums, it’s the drummer’, heard that for many years and they are words to live by. 75 years old, playing for 63. Great job. And yes I play electronic drums and the bands love them. Especially those that sing and use in ear monitors, ‘no cymbal wash’.
Hey Gary, thanks for sharing your live experience with the edrums. I'm that guy also just a cat playing drums. Just want to say I owned a pair of edrum kits for the past 10 years but never played them on a live gig. I've done only studio work playing them. I always wanted to play them live but it never happened for whatever reason. nonetheless I been on a gig with another cat playing edrums and I must say it was a pretty cool set. Like you mentioned you have to have sound checks hours ahead balance the kit, monitoring has to be stellar for the rest of the band. to get the sound right. then that's with edrums or an acoustic set. the thing with acoustic set depending on the size of the venue or club you could get away with no mics on the kit. anyway keep up the great work. By the way the band sounds great!
I use edrums live, but there are a few key items....
1. Most digital mixers must be set up on a channel without any type of preset (i.e. it's more like running a keyboard into the P.A.) no shelving, compressors, and absolutely NO noise gates otherwise it will choke the sounds from your module.
2. Pan your kick (or send it to a separate output if you have one like the td27) then u still only need 2 channels, but the musicians can mix the kick as loud as they need in their monitors.
3. Use some type of stage monitor ,even with in-ears... the feal of the thump will give you some physical feedback that is lacking for the band. And u have some extra control over volume if anyone is having trouble hearing you (including yourself)
Dude I did all of the above, but thanks!
And NO reverb.
I've used edrums live for years. No direct outs, but you need to have a good ear, most of the time you'll need to turn the bass and treble down, and deffinately NO reverb or any effects.
My friend thanks for sharing your hard work and experience. The groove you were playing was so cool. Kind Regards, Tom Pollock
Thanks a lot!
From watching this video I think one thing that stands out the most is that there just wasn't enough preparation. I know this was all new to you and you were kind of winging it in both situations. One worked, the other didn't, at the time. I think that if you're a bit kinder to yourself, and did some more prep work and research, you could make those drums sound really good. I've seen them sound REALLY good and Ive seen them sound not so good. It just comes down to if you WANT to make them work or not. You did say that you were lazy and didn't want to setup a VST which in my opinion is a must if you want these kits to sound good live. The internal sounds of these modules can't come close to how good VST's do. It's just no comparison. Setting a VST up is about as easy as it gets once you get past the learning curve which isn't too bad. I use EZDrummer 3 with a stock Bright room Slingerland kit. All I did was adjust the head tension a little on the kick and snare with no other adjustments and they sound fantastic live in small places I play and I'm sure would sound really good at bigger venues because its a dry organic drum sound. No compression, no reverb, no ambience, nothing. I let the sound guy worry about that. Sometimes I might need to adjust the volume of a cymbal or high hat but that's easily done on the EZDrummer interface. I play a VAD 306 that has the TD 17 with a Roland rack mount system that I can setup and tear down in literally half the time of my acoustic kit. If I'm really in a hurry I can unplug all of my patch cords to my module and literally pick up the entire rack with everything still mounted, and carry it to where ever I need to tear down and pack up. Don't even get me started about how much less space it takes up. I can carry that whole set in and out in 2 trips. It's just great. I hope you haven't completely given up on the idea of using edrums live. If you keep at it and find what works for you I think it will be easier on you in the long run.
Well, I did say that we didn't do a proper sound check. Plus, I didn't realize that I should have disabled the OH and Ambient mics...that's on me. Maybe I wasn't clear, but I bought this kit mostly for recording...in which the VST option makes perfect sense. For gigs though, I'm not gonna go through the trouble of bringing a laptop on top of everything else. I haven't stopped using edrums though. It just depends....to me it's not about the gear anyway. I'm happy playing any sort of kit (within reason of course). But yea, I'm aware of the advantages of edrums over acoustic drums. I'm actually VERY interested in the wireless DW kits. Soooooo expense though! Thanks for your insight...appreciate the info dude!
I have used electronic drums for 25 years, the absolutely must do, and that is to have a live P.A. set up hooked up in your practice room and create live sound kits which includes volume cranked up at gig level, and shout out to Justin @65 drums, he covers this in detail on several videos, but I am an old guy that had to deal with this way before Justin's time, volume and EQ and absolutely nothing ambient ie... reverbs, delays, they are cool on headphones, not live, a totally dry kit works best, separating the kick from the tom and cymbals on the other channel out is another helpful idea, things like cymbal EQ must have the highs cut way back, because at loud volume they become ear piercing, so live playing is a whole different situation from headphone playing, I personally have used on stage sitting behind me, an 18 QSC sub woofer and a QSC K12 and a yamaha 6 channel mixer, of course this if you are not using in-ears, volume was not a problem, my point is you really have to make a lot of adjustments to play live for sure, my absolute favorite portable monitor is the Roland KB600 keyboard amp it replicates the Roland drums extremely well, hope this is helpful to anybody that can use the info.
Yea I slowly came to this realization the hard way. :) thanks for the comment!
Have you tried the Efnote 3X kit?....they claim to have the most natural sound....and if I am understanding what you are saying that is best for live gigs?
A refreshing and valuable video. Thanks.
Thanks so much!
Easy fix for stage presence... run a direct out to an amp. I run a Ampeg 115 bass amp to ephasize the kick drum. And also mixed through the board.
Great insight…I have a Roland 507 TD27, sounds great through ear phones but to my surprise, when i powered them up to practice live the sound coming from my Mackie 212 Thump, was not all that. Very boxy, can get a nice crisp sound from the HH. Any suggestions, some folks are saying i should turn my ambience off, i'm in the process of understanding all that too:)
A lot of the kits have room ambience built in, that means they sound great when using headphones, but, when using PA speakers, if you leave room ambience on, you are applying that plus the natural ambience of the room that you are in. Both ambience fight each other so it sounds bad. Turn that off, and just add what you need in little doses. Also cymbal volume needs to be checked, usually when playing against a recorded track, we tend to raise the cymbal volume a lot, but if your drums are the only drums meaning you are not playing with a recorded Track, your cymbals are probably going to be too loud. Finally Ambience settings will be different for each venue, but once you get used to the menus of your kit, it will be a matter of a couple of minutes to dial your kit to the room.
I'll give it a try, thank you.
What type of DI / splitter did you use. Going through the same thing trying to find a good way to have front end and monitor support using my TD-27. Even looking at assigning the outputs to provide some front end sub mixes.
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DI800v2--behringer-ultra-di-pro-di800v2-8-channel-active-instrument-direct-box
I was referencing the one you hold up in the video. Did not want to go rack mount.
@@WayneFabiszewski-gj8kn Hey sorry for delay in responding. It was either a Behringer Ultra DI DI400P or a Pyle PDC21. I own both and they both work just fine. They are both super-affordable. Hope that helps!
Hi... I have a couple things that might be helpful. E drums live, always bring your own monitor speaker as you did.. always, because you can always turn it down.. also the belief that a full-array huge concert speakers pro is actually as good as a headphone jack 😅 sounds is false .. any huge concert array isn't actually full frequency sound.some do not even have subs!.. An Arena setup is really for loudness, mainly. Oh and so there is no delay issues so stacking of a system is it. Most audio technicians are not used to seeing edrums. So you really don't get a good rough soundcheck. Whereas regular drums techs kinda can rough it in...(says the Audio tech)
I agree that some FOH techs aren't used to dealing with eDrums. That can be a big problem for the drummer! And yes, I learned the hard way to always have a monitor for the eDrums, even when there's already a monitor mix. I would add that for me, that means a direct feed from the eDrums to that monitor independent of the overall monitor mix. Thanks for the suggestions!
Agreed
I feel like another problem with the TD27 live is that it only has the 4 outputs, so you cant give the sound guy all the separate drums. what do sound guys say when you show up and say "here's kick, snare, and then everything else mixed"? plus he needs 4 direct boxes.
OK so 4 outputs isn't as big of an issue as you might think. It's actually easier for all concerned because I can both monitor and control the drum mix from the kit...which honestly I prefer. As far as direct boxes, I have an 8-channel DI box so an XLR cable fpr each output gets sent to the board via the snake from that box...no need for sound guy to supply extra DI's.
No reverb or effects.
A large 15" active speaker set up on the floor as a wedge.(one on either side if you can afford it, but one will work fine) try and also aim them so that you can hear it and the band.
Prob need to take the highs and lows down on your module. I had to.
Live, if your modules set up right you don't need individual outputs. I've done it for years and it sounds amazing.
Yea I figured out after the fact that I need to turn off the "room mics" and efx as well.
@@thecreativedrummer5546👍🏻Keep it as clean as possible - your drums will sound amazing.
@@thecreativedrummer5546 👍🏻
With my TD 27 are used every weekend large or small venues are use Mackie 15 thumps can I use? 2 of them behind me can I have go to direct out on them? and at 3000 Watts everybody hears me can you can still go through the PA? Works for me even outdoors
Thanks for the comment. Not sure what your point is, but I think you're saying that the gear you mention serves you well. I don't use the TD27 that much live. I really bought it for recording. It's just so much easier to output via a USB cable into Logic. No mics, no bleed, just super clean tracks!
What is the type of the Yamaha board you were talking about?
That's a.good question! I don't recall at the moment. I'll be with those guys again in a few weeks so I'll let you know!
What kit from the td27 is you’re main choice?
I know this is lame but I really don't remember!
You ran a mono mix to the house on the small venue?
Sorry for delayed response. Yes, I just took a mono output to a DI box and split that between a monitor behind me and the house system. Worked out fine!
I run mono most of the time.
I have found that in most bar situations you need to use mono since you could have an irreular shaped room, odd speaker placement, plus people scattered all over the place. If it's a center stage in a music venue you could use stereo but mono always works.
You probably made the rookie mistake when playing with the big pa, you left room ambiance on…, and you forgot that a monitor is not optional in this case. I have used e kits live and done well, can it be improved? Yes but only with vsts and for that you need a module that can play vsts such as the Pearl mimic or a laptop. Check Brendan Buckley (Shakira’s drummer) on how he uses a hybrid kit live. I’m on my phone so I can’t link the video😢
Yes I totally neglected to turn off OH and Room mics. I'm not gonna use VSTs because I'm too lazy. 🤪 I can see the potential, but everyone in the band has to be on board and....well...they're not. I'll check Brendan's vid. Thanks!
@@thecreativedrummer5546 you can send the drum kit only through the direct output (just need to set up the routing) and then plug and play live. I keep the room and OH only for Master our when pracricing woth headphones.
You can use a digital mixer (MR18), take your direct outputs and then send the signal with different levels to FOH, Monitors and In Ears.
Hope this helps
Yeah you see talented drummers can drum on pillows and it will sound good. You see those people who make their own kits out of old pots and pans? They sound great... Obviously not the sound it makes but the beat.
You should remind your band that the problem was the sound, not the drum kit.
The problem with the large venue gig wasn't you or your e-kit or e-drums in general. It was (1) a bad band manager allowing a gig of that size without a proper sound check, and MOSTLY (2) a sh*t lousy sound guy. I was a sound guy for years - I know, there are a lot of bad ones out there. The bad ones incessantly rattle of gear names and model numbers and brag, but soooo many of them have tin ears and can't mix to save their souls.
P.S. This is not my own brag - I was pretty good, but not great. But I saw so many that were really, really bad.
Yes, it is absolutely CRITICAL to do a proper sound check. I totally agree with you re: there being lots of shitty sound people out there. I was at a George Benson show at the NJ Performing Arts Center, and I could not believe how bad the mix was. I almost went back to the FOH board to make suggestions, but decided that was not the wisest course. :) Back to my situation, I should've brought a floor monitor placed right in front of my kit so the rest of the band could hear the drums "acoustically." Someone else posted that suggestion in this thread, and it is a good one. Lastly, at the end of the day there are certain people that just hate change....good or bad.
That's yet ANOTHER reason why I don't believe in individual outputs, I don't trust those guys. If your modules set up correctly - no prob - I've done it for decades.
Your band telling you to bring an acoustic is like telling the keyboardist to bring a piano. A piano is cool, but it’s big, heavy, and stuck with one sound, just like acoustic drums. Just sayin
Well I can see both sides, and it's not really fair to compare acoustic drums to an acoustic piano in terms of live playing. I don't know. The Roland kit is a pain in the ass to setup, plus one way or another you need some sort of PA system in order to be heard. There are pluses and minuses to both.