High Temperature & 5-Axis Printing: Vision Miner 22 IDEX V2 at Formnext 2023
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- Thanks to Vision Miner for helping me get to Formnext 2023. Check out their 22 IDEX V2: visionminer.com/products/22IDEX and get 10% off their Nano Polymer Adhesive with code CNCKITCHEN : geni.us/NanoPolymerAdhesive
I had a great time talking to Rob and Nazar about the 22 IDEX V2 by Vision Miner. They gave me some really interesting insight into what challenges there are with high temp printers, how 5-axis printing could be possible with the tilting bed and Rob told me the story about their Nano Polymer Adhesive!
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Chapters:
00:00 Formnext 2023
00:50 22 IDEX V2 by Vision Miner
01:47 Why IDEX?
03:24 Nozzle Calibration
04:00 Swiveling Bed Probe
04:46 Print Beds for High Temps
05:53 Why no Dry Box?
07:22 Dealing with a Heated Chamber
08:15 Giving a customer what they need and not what they want
10:58 Printing PEEK slow or fast?
12:49 Not re-inventing the wheel!
15:54 Challenges in building a high-temp printer
17:17 5-axis and non-planar hack
18:59 Nano Polymer Adhesive
#3Dprinting #HighTemp #HighPerformance
DISCLAIMER: Part of this video was sponsored by Vision Miner.
FTC Disclaimer: A percentage of sales is made through Affiliate links - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Amazing Video, thank you so much! It was great seeing you at the show, cheers!
Was a pleasure talking about that machine!
Rob is like a morph of a nerd and the ShamWow guy.
With the voice of Seinfeld :)
Reminds me of the TF2 scout.
Right? 😂 I was waiting for the line "but wait! There's more!" Crazy printer though. I liked how far that deck could move. Would have liked to have seen some actual printing done with it though.
He reminds me a lot of Tyler Hoover (hoovies garage) too
Can't unhear/unsee now haha
5:00 dude I could watch that interesting little ball joint move for HOURS
This is a fantastic video! This is what I want from a trade show interview. Tons of details, lots of insight, very little fluff, and a person who really knows their product and audience. Great stuff!
The biggest thing that i look forward for in 3d printing is what solutions will eventually come for non planar 3d printing, the software is really behind hardware in that regard, but it'll be great once support is there
Same, this is honestly what I'd hoped for for 3d printing for the longest time. It solves so many issues. Unfortunately while causing tons of others tho lol
Fusion 360 has 5-axis additive toolpathing now!
There is a way to add that feature to the old slic3r slicer. Bit of a pain in the ass to set up but once you do its very cool to see on your machine
You can thank patents for that
This guy's an amazing salesman! Really interesting product.
I can't even express how many times I've run into the "we want PEEK because it's the best" comment. I've had people ask for PEEK, but when I get down to the requirements, ABS will suffice. It's insane. So that resonated with me
that dude just gave one of the best sales pitches ever at the end of the video. It is also very fair to mention the commission that CNC kitchen gets
I love the idea of using industry standard parts and offering the documentation (in an economically viable way, I hope). I wish more manufacturers would take note; like Apple and John Deere, for example
What a cool printer/company. This is a much more professional version of the printer I designed/built. Kudos to the Vision Miner team.
Rob & Nazar a fantastic guys. I have the 22IDEX and they have been so helpful.
This guys know exactly what they are talking about, awesome.
I absolutely love their attitude. As a printer tinkerer myself, I want to see the open-source printing community thrive.
This - like many other people in the Additive Manufacturing industry and (hobby levels) - is what continually excites me as to how much people are so passionate about the advancement of the technology and its capabilities. It's the closest feeling to when you are a kid and you look at something mechanical and go "wow, how does that work?"
Novel printer. Looks good, So why didn't we see it printing? Anyone else want to see it print some overhangs? 🤔
love the dual extruders and the bed rails. What a cool piece of engineering hats off to Nazar(?)
I'm still using their nano polymer adhesive. It really is some awesome stuff.
The company I work for just bought a 22 IDEX V2. I can't wait for an opportunity to use it.
Any updates?
Nice! I was thinking of a high temperature Voron Tridex might be a DIY alternative. I think I have watched every material video vision miner has glad to see they are using off the shelf stuff.
That was so fun to learn about. Thank you!
Basically a 5 axis cnc machine. From probing x web y web in center of bed, ots tool checker and 5 axis. Really cool.
CF PEEK is a wild material to be using, amazing.
These guys are the most down-to-earth yet super technical sales representatives I've ever seen (they're actually engineers, I know, but at the trade show they basically do sales...).
They're honest and passionate and friendly. Great guys, really.
This kind of approach just makes you really appreciate them and what they're doing.
They are NOT Engineers, not a SINGLE ONE LMAO they are Ex Vacuum Salesmen, literally. If you trust these guys, you've been duped like the rest.
We got a 22 Idex V2 at work! Not as easy to use as a Prusa or something but still a fantastic printer!
Cool, have you done 5-axis printing yet to avoid the need for support material? Does it use input shaping to print fast?
@@MOVIEKICKS nothing 5 axis yet. I feel like that's a long way off because no off the shelf slicer supports it yet. But if you want to write your own code you could definitely do it. Since it's not running klipper I don't think it can run input shaping? I might be wrong. But it is core XY so it still runs pretty fast!
@@mattsheehy1854 They mentioned Duet Firmware in the video, which now does input shaping as well.
@@NerferCoOh sweet that's good to know!!!
Would love to see VM do a video on non-planar stuff.
Yesssh that feature is something outstanding! One of a lot of UFO features actually!
For biomedical implants, PEEK is the best choice. I have seen osseointegration as good as titanium.
Medical research labs would love a PEEK printer at a price below 10,000 USD
that's not possible tho
Excellent oral presentation. Such a relief and relaxation from all the stuff (on my field) I ought to be doing 💪😅✌
Cool printer features -- very innovative!
This is the way of doing it, viz. the opposite done by Bamboo Lab, open source, and kept open, standard parts and focusing on support, documentation and fabrication. Yeah, the price can be higher but the quality is too.
21:33 As someone who uses their adhesive, this is the same exact experience I've had with that stuff when printing PETG parts that have a wide base on my X1 Carbon with the smooth engineering plate. After the printer cools off for a little while, my parts "click" inside of the printer, and they would just slide right off when I would go to take them off. It really is the best adhesive I've used and Rob is not lying.
2:50 - Stephen, were you drinking before this interview? It feels like we're on a boat. I'm starting to get motion sickness...
If you print daily or only in UHT (as I do) you must understand one thing: Every part inside your heated chamber is disposable and will eventually need to be replaced. So consider that fact carefully if you are looking to buy a very very expensive UHT printer.
super awesome!!
Unsolicited endorsement: I have a bed-slinger with a glass bed. It's an entry-level printer (the best kind) and I've been delighted with its bed adhesion. Bed cools down, parts pop off by themselves. But the bed got damaged because I was clumsy and parts didn't stick as well as before. I got a $19 bottle of this "Nano Polymer Adhesive" from Amazon and applied it to the bed as directed. Now my prints stick again. It's a Christmas miracle!
Rob and VisionMiner gave me support for a printer that I didn't even buy from them. They treated me better than companies that I have spent thousands of dollars with. I did end up buying parts from them and would gladly buy from them in the future.
Just the other day I was looking at my X1C (it has 3 z-screws like so many other printers) and thought to myself about what would be required to make it capable of printing non-planar. The cool thing about the solution they've shown here is there are so many printers that have the triple screw arrangement. With a few software tweaks, we could see that functionality retrofit onto many existing printers. While it doesn't give a full 90 degree rotation of the bed, like they say, it's enough that you can do 90 degree overhangs. But also imagine being able to mix layer orientations. You could get more isotropic properties or specifically tune a print to be stronger in one specific direction, area, whatever.
Dang I kinda want a "behind the scenes" for when you go to conferences like this to get more technical details. I think talking to some of the technically minded engineers was my favorite part about mingling in the booths at manufacturing conferences.
Stefan - buy yourself a tripod - that way you'll be able to keep the camera still !
We were pulling our hair out trying to get some ASA parts to stick to the bed. We had weeks of printing to get thru. The nano polymer adhesive saved our butts! Thank you for an AWESOME product! Look forward to buying the fancy printer some day… Great info about how to make use of the tilting bed via post processing of the Fusion additive output. Understand it is probably a bit cumbersome at this point, but good to know it is possible even now with some effort.
This man sure knows how to sell a product. I looked at my bank account balance and I haven't even tried any other printer.
It's a pity that there was no real coverage and show-off of the non planar printing feature only some advertising talk. Sounds all cool and interesting but I want to be shown the real deal.
Man what a crazy printer. Id love to have one 😢😭🙏🏼
A rateig with a slicer to take advantage of its bed system, about time
This is my dream printer...
A really GREAT attitude to manufacturing NOT using proprietary parts; MFR's who make repairs impossible and use proprietary components will die, because customers get sick of that crap, no matter how 'good' it is (apple). Thanks Rob!
To me it seems a bit odd that they‘re leaving the small metal lever on the Z probe switch. That is something that might bend over time and give you varying measurements.
True, but if the bed ends up very tilted from a non planar print a non levered microswitch won't be able to trigger and the toolhead will dig into the bed. Another approach is using a d2hw switch that has a long plunger
@@HitLuca94 You‘re right! Thanks
this is a great printer! 👏
excellent job to the VisionMiner team!
While I am happy to see more insights on the 22 IDEX, I wish this printer was fully reviewed with prints in different materials.
I was seriously considering v1 but didn't like what I saw from some of the people who owned it. I waited for v2 and was surprised the price went up about 60% from my original quote. It went outside what I decided to budget being a small business. I like the design of it and the mentality of the company. I just cannot justify the price for my needs.
I love the toolhead design, incredibly optimized for minimizing horizontal footprint
Amazing machine. Thank you for sharing it with us. We can dream right. Good thing is the lower priced 3d printers will adapt to the cool features over time.
Тут должна быть реклама "Востока" от Соркина)
man had I heard about this in May There would be at least 1 if not 2 in the print lab I manage
Did Vision Miner ever actually ship the 22 IDEX v1? Really difficult to find an actual review of it, and the few people who have used it don't seem to speak highly of it.
That's because they're horrible. I have a V1 and it is an absolute horrible mess of a machine. There are so many things wrong with it that I wouldn't even know where to begin a list. All of my requests for updates (even something as simple as a power switch) have gone unanswered/ignored. It appears we first adopters funded further updates, for which purchasers still pay. 🤔😂
vision miner doesnt make this machine. it's a rebranded addwise.
@@TMS5100 but Vision Miner provides support, right? Or, judging by the people who've used the 22 IDEX, they don't provide support 💀
I didn’t hear good things either. Sucks to be V1 owners. Interested in the V2, but at this price I’m NOT interested in being a beta tester, and with as many caveats as this printer has, we need a lot more assurance before we are even close to clicking buy.
@@SamPinchesMakerShop wait for independent reviews of the v2 before buying one. in the meantime there's always the itamsys funmat ht.
That man really knows his business!
cool printer
5 axis printing... so obvious but I'd never thought about it till now
Lol :D i was on formnext all 4 day but somehow miss this booth :/
These are very interesting
I wonder what the slicing experience is like?
We use PrusaSlicer, so it's essentially like any other experience :) Until we get into the 5-Axis stuff, that's a bit different :)
its trash, all their profiles have the same settings besides temps, its really shotty development, I mean have you seen their "documentation site" ? hahah
As far as I know the printer is developed and produced by adwise in Ukraine. So I wouldn't call it robs machine for purchasing and rebranding it. IMO a good sales person. So if you're located in Europe you can contact the manufacturer directly for a quotation.
They want 15 000$ USD for this printer lol.
@@hd-be7diI mean, I guess they're aiming for the industrial market, not home users, so that makes sense.
@@internetcancer1672 It's a home user printer at industrial price :P I feel sorry for the poor fools that fell for it and bought this thing...
You're right, yet they talk about it as if they created it.
@@hd-be7di for the first version of the printer i got an offer directly from the manufacturer which was roughly half that price...
Love that entire sales pitch and explanation. Also, I wish this video existed like 5+ years ago.... I was frustrated then reading about industrial/high end machines going "we need to deal with thermal expansion and softening metals in the gears..." and then some person on a forum, Twitter, TH-cam comment would go "these people are stupid. I'm gonna upgrade my Ender 3 to print PEEK/PEKK" and a number of us would just go "just... just stop". You can build using off the shelf parts, but the benefit is really just being able to replace things easier AND they have the expertise... so why reinvent the wheel? And also, can confirm, Nano Polymer is awesome stuff. Print... it works. Print... it works. Print... fail. Fail. Fail. Fail. Fa... wait, let me get the Nano Polymer. Print... it works. It just works. Spend all you want on gluestick and other adhesives and 30 different bed surfaces for different materials... Nano Polymer is thin and runny, so you don't need some huge thick coating. Apply it, spread it, let it dry... I have 2 bottles of the stuff (one I bought, one I won in a contest) and it's been a few years and I still haven't finished off 1 bottle. The amount of gluestick I see people go through on their Bambus and others would probably total the cost of Nano Polymer and it would probably last longer. Loved their attitude when I first learned about them, and love that they still have it.
I am convinced Delrin/POM is the secret ingredient we are missing to make warp drives a possibility. It warps into another dimension, giving warp drives there warp capabilities. It's the most worpy worp worper there is I swear OMG!!!
i was so proud when i managed a complete benchy in pom. its bottom is warped like a rocking chair but at least it completed. and it's the strongest benchy i've ever printed.
Wow. Definitely some great advancements. Cost is about 15K which is way out of most people's price range, but then again its an industrial machine. However more advancements like this will be adopted in other machines.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the 3 screw Z axis looks like it was heavily borrowed from @MirageC. That isn't really a bad thing. Just an observation.
Is it possible for you to make a real review of this machine?
I think it’s pretty interesting and well priced if it’s delivering on everything they claim and it would be interesting for semi professional use (university and co) but you can’t find a review online from somehow who used this machine for some time?
I would like to see it actually working.
13:32 dude going straight into sincericide
Re: predictions - AON3D currently has a simulation for part printability for high temp materials.
dang someone beat me to it! I've been working on nonplanar single axis but that's way cooler with multi axis!
I wonder if you could fill in the 'brick' pattern better using different printing angles with a bed like this.
Mrs. Claus, I'd love to unwrap this money printer for Christmas.
🎄🎁
somehow ive missed that printer. but on the other hand ive got the chance to have a nice talk with David Crocker
Same thing, I was Wednesday and Thursday, and missed this thing somehow, even though I was at the booth to look at the bondtech stuff.
Also talked to David on what boards would be best for a potential printer I'm planning.
Talked with Martin about the new all metal LGX and about potentially watercooling it for High Temperature Applications, but did not Realized Ratrig and VM where at the same booth too.
i did not find them a week prior in the Formnext app where i did marked Booths ive wanted to visit.
I would buy it😅
good luck with that software
Wanted to order nano polymer adhesive but remembered why I did not order before.. 100usd shipping cost for 10x small bottles 😵
1 bottle lasts years. 10 is lifetimes supply
Mechanical endstop to calibrate bed leveling is hilarious on a highend machine😂
What sensor would you have recommended they use? Remember, needs to work at 200c, work with non-metal beds, and be dockable.
HT PZT. Used in much higher temps, with much better precision and reliability than a 50c clicky switch.
I've let this sit for a while after watching their release video. I'd really like to see a research project (because it's otherwise financially) to make a high temp machine using invar, zerodur and some ceramics as a proof of concept. Make thermal expansion of the machine negligible in the realm of printing.
Me slapping on robs forehead:
"this bad boy can sell anything"
He is really a good and charismatic salesman, I will buy their adhesive for sure
If SithlordBritt doesnt get one to review, theyre missing marketing gold lol. Red LED, black frame, if thats not Sith carbon fiber nylon lightsaber material, I dunno what is!
The thing that worries me about heated chambers is the stepper motors. I was under the impression that they start dying at 100 C, and given how warm they can get without an enclosure, anything about 50C for the chamber would be a bad idea
There are high temp stepper motors. NEMA 23 high temp is rated up to 180C, for instance.
The only steppers in the enclosure are the extruder ones. The X Y Z steppers shouldn't see much heat.
Correct -- and even the extruder motors are rated to 180C, but the other 7 motors are outside the heated chamber :) @@mattsheehy1854
It was the case, but as others have mentioned there are now magnet formulations where the currie point is north of 200c
Is this a voron Trident in it's final form?
Dude looks like Ross from friends, with the voice of Seinfeld. Niceeee
Да это же Rat Rig
The tresemme hair spray does the same as the nano polymer adhesive. You can put one coating for like two months or so before having to add more. It also auto releases the part.
For pla, sure.
$14k 😅
$15,000, though
I'd like to see a more economical version of this machine that has the IDEX and motion control but without the focus on high-temp materials beyond, say, ABS. I'm currently building a machine specifically for ABS in the guts of a problem child FS24 Full Spectrum Laser cutter and found that I don't even need a chamber heater because the 110v bed warms it sufficiently.'
Still, it's a 3k dollar laser cutter with about $600 more parts (Supervolcano hotend and Duet3D 6HC control board) and over a year of work and I still don't have IDEX. If these guys could produce an IDEX ABS printer for less than 5k I'd be ahead of the game.
its not even worth that, its trash.
@@tjk4996 Thank you, rando. How many 5-axis IDEX printers have you made?
@@John-mv7xw So... is that zero?
@@John-mv7xw On a more serious note: If what you're saying is true, that really pops a hole in their whole "American manufactured" claim.
The V1 was such as poor quality printer. A bad rebranded copy of the Addwise IDEX. The wiring was horrible and chassis was not rigid enough. I really hope they have fixed the issues.
I have no real use for that printer, and I sure as heck can't afford to spend 8 months wages on a printer, but damn if it ain't pretty. So it's probably good that it's impossibly expensive for a hobbyist - if this was aimed at ABS/Nylon temps instead of Ultim, and cost closer to 1,500 than 15,000, I'd be trying to find ways to afford it and that really wouldn't be a wise decision.
A Little bit of loose change needed $14,900.00 USD
Why is Peek so desired for printing ? it's a material I often see talked about.
its one of the highest strength thermoplastic
Whats the deal with 3D printers, am I right?! - guy reminds me of seinfeld for some reason :)
That isn't a klicky probe clone. It's a quickdraw probe clone, by Annex.
I've been saying for a while that we need 5 axis..
CARBON FIBER PEEK AHAHAHAHA One single roll's worth as my Bambu LOL
Please put the camera on a tripod! So seasick trying to watch this. I ended up hiding the video and just listing to half of it. Try double or tripling your viewing speed and see if you still find the shot enjoyable. Appreciate the content though!
Interesting machine but way overkill for most users.
Dual printhead setup looks interesting, I wish I had that in my k1 max.
So the basically where inspired by the snapmaker for the calibration. And else then that it looks like a Voron with a worse hotend? And the screw + pince the block in nozzels?? Also Trapezoidal Screws not that nice especially not for longevity. And that for 15k..
80 $ shipping. Is the adhesive available in Europe? 😂
3DJake to answer my question
Yes, you can get it at 3D Jake for example geni.us/QnemO99 (affiliate)
We dont use glue stick anymore? I just started using glue stick.