Nord Stage 3 vs Nord Stage 4. Which to keep? A mostly non-technical review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2023
- To hear the sounds that made the difference for me, see this follow-up video: • Nord Stage 3 Sounds I ...
This video is for people who already have a Stage 3. If you don't, you're gonna find awesome sounds on the Nord Stage 4 and you'll have a better ability to manipulate the sounds than on the Stage 3. I love and have grown attached to the synth engine in the Stage 3, which is the Nord Lead A1 synth engine, so for the best of both worlds, you could get the Stage 4 and the Lead A1. If you have a Stage 3 and you're fine with switching to another synth engine to also take advantage of the superior controls on the Stage 4, go for it!
Thank you, Marc Larochelle, for all your videos and guidance: / @mykeystomusic
This video contains my thoughts after working with both keyboards, then at 15:29 a very short head to head comparison of one sound I recreated using the file viewer on both keyboards.
My experiences:
0:24 couldn't transfer sound files NS3 to NS4
0:55 Nord's rationale for not transferring sounds
1:18 File viewer--thank you, Christian Florentz
1:32 Small rant about Nord not offering software to transfer the sounds
2:22 Maybe someone will recreate NS3 sounds on NS4 (if possible)
3:19 My experience using File Viewer to try to recreate the sounds
3:36 Pros of Stage 3
4:15 Pros/Cons of Stage 4
5:11 How to get at least some of the piano programs on the Stage 3
6:21 The synthesizers! pros/cons of each
7:00 Some detailed differences between the synthesizers--the oscillators
8:53 Differences in Glide on the synths
9:27 Difference in Attack
10:11 The main issue for me--the sound!
15:29 Short snippet on Stage 3 then Stage 4 (equivalent settings)
15:46 File viewer source for the sound just played
Post-Video Note: As I say in the video, I think Marc has his finger on the pulse of this topic. I think he is digging deep into the Stage 4 as he did the Stage 3, and will likely soon be able to more definitively report on the kickass-ness of the NS4 sounds. I did go back after the video (in deference to the comments that had been made) to check out the NS4 sounds again and I definitely found wonderful powerful sounds. I love, personally, on the NS3, Tuna Square and some other sounds, so I'm sticking with it, but I'm guessing if I started with the NS4 I might not want to switch. Hard to say. You might want to go through all the sounds yourself to decide...a great reason to support brick and mortar stores like Guitar Center. (Shout out to Ryan at the Highland Park, IL store--thanks for making things happen there!) - บันเทิง
im on the stage 2 in a wedding band and moving to the stage 4 is gonna be a nightmare as there's no way im aware of to get my sounds on there without spending months of tweaking and comparing, some of them are just SOOOOOO close to the original i doubt id get as close on a new keyboard..
You can download the parameters with the file viewer for nord stage, but as I mention, with a different synth engine you will not get the same sounds. If you're happy with your sounds you might want to stick with what you have. If you're down for the rebuild and you can tolerate some variance go for it! ns3-program-viewer.cyclic.app/. (There are people on this thread that offered to rebuild sounds, as well--not sure what they'd charge for that)
@@judynightmusic thanks for this, will check it out :)
Thanks for making this video. I've also only owned my NS3 for a couple of months . I waited a bit after the NS4 came out & when the NS3 prices came down (by $700.00), I grabbed one & like you, I love it - .best organ/piano /synth I've ever owned. I'm amazed these great sounds all come from one keyboard. It is disappointing programs can't just be transferred over to the NS4 in an instant., that's a real drag...and, I use song mode constantly & can't imagine not having it (deal breaker) so no need to consider a NS4.
Yeah--I think if you're starting fresh NS4 seems the way to go, but if not...buyer beware!
Excellent - a very interesting appraisal of the two keyboards. I managed to spend around 20 minutes with an NS4 in a shop recently, and it really is totally different from the Nord Stage 3 (and Marc from My Keys To Music was instrumental in enabling me to get to know my NS3 as well as I do). There seemed to be a lot more menu-diving; the absence of the song mode was the deal-breaker for me against upgrading to an NS4. If your first purchase is the NS4, with its enhanced features, perhaps it is the 'Keyboard to Rule Them All'... but there is an awful lot of hassle involved in upgrading from an NS3 to an NS4 to meet your own specifications.
@@MRFThorne yes all of that! I do look forward to more from Nord as they continue to tweak and refine their instruments
Hi Judy - you're awesome! Thanks for posting the video and for sharing your thoughts. There is something "special and lush" about the synth engine on the NS3 - I agree. I'm hoping that they (Nord) adjust for the glide and perhaps program the synth engine to offer a detune config and a noise mix config. That would help in a LOT of areas and save us layers. In listening to your sound at the end, I think adding a unison of 1 (if you didn't already do that) and using the EQ to brighten the treble, it may have been really close to the NS3 sound. But yes, The NS3 was more "rich" in your example, and you can hear it a mile away.
With that said, I've noticed a marked improvement in some of the Nord Library samples, like the Nylon guitar and harp for the NS4 which really sound great. But you cannot live on samples alone (as we know). So, I think you've come to a good conclusion and the NS3 should serve you for years to come. Then, in 5 or so more years from now, maybe they'll release the NS5 and it will have it all along with 6 layers and 2 dedicated Extern options! (It's fun to dream). In the meantime, we enjoy our Stage 3 and 4 keyboards. All the best, Judy, and keep up the great work!! 👍🏻 👌🏻 🎶
Oh yes I totally agree about the guitar and harp samples! So sweet and enticing! I also did love the “Burning __” burning something synth preset in the NS4. I just am so happy the the NS3 that I don’t want to risk feeling unsatisfied if I make the switch and can’t quite get to that place sound-wise. Thank you, again!! (But I’m thinking your comments and tweaks will definitely help other people in this boat.)
@@judynightmusic Thank Judy! And if you ask 10 musicians what they think of a given board or setup, you will, in fact, get 10 different answers. 😉
I keep my Nord Stage 3 and bought the Nord Wave 2 the best of both worlds if you don't mind having two synths. I love having both Synthesizers. You can midi them up and there you have a Stage 3 , A1 Synthesizer and Nord Wave 2 with 4 layers in two keyboards. I'm very happy with that combination.
Thank you!!!
Stage 4 for me because of the 3 synth layers, more voices, more sample memory. Stage 4 is immensely powerful for sound creation, much more powerful than the Stage 3 synth section. The layered effects on the Stage 4 also seal the deal for me. IMO of course 🙂
Keep both for a long time ....and you will love both.... i have a nord piano 5....and i just ordered a Stage 4..... they are all good
I have a stage 3 compact stage 4 compact and stage 3 88 , the main reason to change is if you want a different synth experience. Also be aware there is no song mode on the 4. As I have a wave 2 the synth on the 4 was not a surprise . The ability to have separate effects on the stage 4 is a great new feature. The stage range is the best live keyboards at this point for playing piano and organ , the sample editor is also a massive bonus. Keep music live out there .No right or wrong decision here!
Nice collection! And good points. Yes I did miss the song feature but I had put all my songs in banks (just duplicated the ones I use multiple times) so I was all ready to go.
I’m sorry not to have effects on each instrument but it’s not a dealbreaker for me. Anyway thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts. Keep music live!!
If there's a way to capture all the parameters form the Nord 2 patches and then try and rebuilt it on the 4 id love to try it?
see prior reply
Nord should really help people with this sort of thing. Perhaps through some sort of software wizard. It’s a shame if users have such a steep transition between versions of their keyboard… and it’s getting in the way of some sales. I think it’s cool that you added the wave 2 synth, but adding is one thing. Taking away is quite another.
Seems to me that the reasoning here is "I want to keep doing things the way I was used to", not much of a technical review of the Nord 4.
Here is an example: the effects engine in the 4 is not only more advanced but it's applicable to every separate layer while in the 3 is applied uniformly to all layers and just this is huge. Also, layers' control on the 4 is far more advanced, etc. However, if she's happy with the 3, so be it, it's the most important thing.
Thank you for boiling it down for people. I just really like the sounds from the Nord 3. I wasn't sure if I would be able to recreate the sounds given my level of skills. Maybe with Mark's upcoming tutorials that will be possible...or maybe since it's a different synth engine it will make other wonderful sounds...just not the same ones. I think a buyer would want to hear all of the presets as a way to decide if they like the sound of one synth vs the other.
You're right, though...the effects and layer controls are much better on the 4.
I changed the title to "Nord Stage 3 vs Nord Stage 4. Which to keep? A mostly non-technical review" based on your comment, so thank you--I don't want to mislead!
@@judynightmusic there was no need for that, enjoy your Nord, whichever model!
There is to much menu diving on the 4 synth for me.
5:00 I suggest you keep both if you hire ●me I can assist you creating library ready to go live or published for later final recording.
I don't know... don't exclude you're facing something like first impresssion which don't satisfy as much but later would turn out to be great. I see the problem with values you couldn't set the same. But the overall sound won't in any case be less, in doubt enhanced. The Piano libraries are the same so not much difference to be expected. But the ways to combine them plus the higher flexibility of the effects are something to consider. If you would start with the 4 directly you'd probably find your way in the same manner as you did with the 3 or others with their 2EX before. But one thing I would consider: As far as I understand your main concerns are only affecting the synth/sample engine. And this is the only component which has been swept completely out of 4. So a possible solution would also be, getting rid of the 3 and then get that synth Engine of the Stage 3 stand alone. Which should be the Nord Lead A1 right? That way you would even have both, the Wave 2 and the A1.
I love this reply because it definitely opens my mind to other possibilities. I honestly didn’t know about the Lead. On the other hand, my sounds are a combination of synth and piano or synth and organ so I like having all in one board.
I think you’re probably right though, that if I’d started on the 4 I’d probably be telling a different story. There are some kickass synth sounds on the 4 for sure. It wasn’t an easy decision
@@judynightmusic Well you can Midi it up and send its Audio through the external input on the Stage. So then you can mix it the same way as before. And even have some 49 synth action keys more. Enhances flexibility on stage by the cost of more stuff to carry around. The Nord Stage 3 with 88 keys even used go for more than 3 grand still so 1000 or less for a used A1 could be manageble. I still don't think it's that much about the sound though because most of it will be the same; it's more the handling which differs and the greater variety of the Wave2 engine. But just the fact that on the 4 you will have double layer just for the Piano Engine would make it rewarding for me. No more panel B needed for Rhodes plus Piano. And then, each one has its own effect chain. Big plus.
@@torbenanschau6641 I think you're probably right about this--I'm kind of wanting a limited rig--I need to take my whole rig to practice each week and I already have a Roland Ax-Edge and a concertina. I just got a Line6 pedal so I'm messing with that (as far as incorporating more complexity into the rig. I'm really happy to have gotten away from using Mainstage--It's awesome but I don't like having to hook everything up, and it seems like the more parts there are the more possible errors.
I just returned to playing in a rock setting, and my mantra was simplify simplify (hard to stick to that!). Anyway, I think the Stage 4 is pretty awesome but I'm so happy with my sounds I just don't want to mess with it any more. Keep me posted and maybe post some of the great sounds from the NS4...I might have to buy in down the road! :)
@@torbenanschau6641 Good points here @torbenanschau6641 I like the reminder that you can take the audio output of a second board and input that into the Stage 3/4 for mixing. I recently starting doing this with a drum machine and it's quite effective! I also have a Lead A1 and it too is a great sounding board and fits the bill as a potential Stage 3 synth engine replacement. It's just missing aftertouch but other than that, it's a perfect fit for a lot of applications.
What a beautiful and fortunate problem to have chosing between 2 top keyboards. 🎉 🙌🏾
Ok so your so right !!!! I had a stage 3 used it on my number 1 record in Europe Fresh Bear Tracks song Give it Up co written with Stephen Stills who also plays on it . Great piano sound that I custom made as well as 19 other patches, Many hours went into this process. I played a Nord stage 4 at Namm. Like it enough to drink the Kool aid. Bought it . I went to my thumb drive that I used to dave the patches . Downloaded onto my laptop opened the Nord web site looking for a way to download the saved sounds. nope I called Nord they said the operating systems are totally different . why would you expect them to talk to each other the 3 to the 4 . WELL SPANK MY ASS AND CALL ME BLUE! one total evening 6 hours plus I recorded new custom patches I use in my live shows. NORD YOU CAN DO BETTER GET IT TOGETHER . T BEAR
Yeah--I think if you're starting fresh NS4 seems the way to go, but if not...buyer beware!
I miss the Song Mode a lot.
I was all set for the change: I had used the Nord utility to organize all the songs into pages (like A11-A18, A21-28) and just made copies of sounds I used multiple times. Anyways, sometimes I would want little adjustments to the sounds for different songs. Is that method working for you?
@@judynightmusic No Yet, i have 2 weeks with my NS4, still having my NS3 and still loving the NS3, the Song mode was so useful for my shows, i am not sure yet so bring my NS4 to the stage
@@AlejandroAcentares Let me know how it goes for you
Me too!
Why don’t you save your sounds as a sample? Then simply transfer the completed thing to the NA4.
Works fine for me …
So, NO NO NO … you don’t have to redo everything. Still struck, post a reply.
Yes I surely considered that, but much of what I like about the sounds is the interactivity of the mod wheel or the way the notes change over time and interact, or the velocity effects, and you can’t capture that in samples
@@judynightmusic
Note then
1) the S4 AUTOMATICALLY upgraded stage 3 files. I thought that was full functionality. Don’t have so can’t try.
2) But you can split the full N3 sound into 3 separate samples and upload those… then use mod wheel anyway.
3) Sample Splits etc download fine. So might the wheel nsmp3 to nsmp4 too
It is clear that you do not need to purchase a NS4 because you are happy with the sounds you have created on the NS3. Why all the angst if you do not need to change keyboards? I am not a Nord player but even I am aware that the NS4 is not compatible with NS3 programs. The only thing I would say is that every time I review my live sets on Montage or Kronos, I invariably try to improve them although not always successfully. I don’t really mind the challenge of starting from scratch with a new keyboard with improved sound palettes and features which clearly is the case with the NS4. To be honest, even if you could use your NS3 programs on the NS4, what have you really gained if you just want them to sound exactly like they sounded on the NS3?
I was hoping to recreate those sounds so that I could use the NS4 and return the NS3. The NS4 has a lot of advantages in terms of playability
You play beautiful Judy, checked out your videos. 😊
Thank you so much, Brian! I’m in a growth phase right now so hoping to produce more over time. Working on vocals currently-finally getting a handle on that-but also currently expanding my pop repertoire.
I will not upgrade to a 4. I will get a Stage EX instead to complement the 3.
Wrong call. This lady is soooooo wrong.
@@johnscott4693
Apparently not.
It's right for her, and it is the right call for me as well, maybe not for you though. We all use our instruments differently. I am really happy for you if you enjoy your Stage 4, as long as you're making music everything is great.
Peace out! ☮
@@Zwopper but see notes. I’m helping on technicalities (the subject). Apparently the keyboard is better. Had a Roland rd700NX. Gigged for 17 years
S4 88. is the machine. For the main sounds alone it’s worth £4k.
@@johnscott4693 If you say so.
But in my case, I have a Kronos 2 for bigher sounds and the lack of setlist alone is a dealbreaker for me.
@@Zwopper I really like the Kronos and I know a lot of pros use it. I was advised against it due to reliability issues. Like perhaps you, preferred the sounds to the Roland. But reliability was essential for me. Not disappointed, so I’ll never know.
Set list - never understood that point. It’s untrue.
I’ve just loaded my songs into Bank H, in a … err… list … for my err… set.
Changing the order etc is ultra easy on Nord hardware or laptop ( btw a Roland downside, perhaps the worst day to day … it’s a very old, Locked programme system, you have to reinput every thing, every time). So again, NO, you do have powerful, easy to use and amend set list.
You can object all you want, but the synth engine is different... That's just a fact. You can't copy the sounds between them.
Yes--I just thought they could have some kind of app that did its best to recreate your sounds. Everyone has to do it manually. I know they won't be the same now, and having tried I like the stage 3 sounds. I did another video with the sounds I like from the 3
After owning ns3 and Yamaha montage ı decided to stop buying hardware synths. I am investing money for software synth such as Komplete 14, keyscape, omnisphere etc. Apple silicon chips are far more reliable and time proof over hardware synths.
I think that’s the best option if you play at home or in a studio. In a live setting it’s another story
@@faruzzy Yes I loved Mainstage but having so many moving parts for a show was problematic. I'm glad, though, to hear more about the software synths. I'll have to check these out more for recording purposes.
@drtolgaege6782 Which of these has your favorite sounds? I'd like to give them a listen.
@@judynightmusic Omnisphere is amazing.
@@cyberprepper OK!!! I'm gonna check it out!
STOP - were you (or found yourselves such as) born a pianist or sonic explorer using mainly electronic means? Some argue piano is a percussion instrument, others think it is more a composer's device than a totally free (group) of instruments such as percussion, cello, historic flugelhorn or even a trombone. So if you can express yourself on a piano - keybed styled piano generating sound as substitute for an acoustic instrument - if so - your choice is already answered given your history here in TH-cam (alone).
If your subconscious questions that you now want to expand your sonic exploration it is better to spend some time in a synth based studio (where there also might be an original Rhodes) and thereafter go on a short vacation (not leaving your time zone - no additional je-tlegg needed!). Then Xmas comes along and see if you want to get a long term lease, rent or 2nd hand or B-stock any Nord (4. 5 and soon 6-10), or something totally different, like dumping all and get a NEW Rhodes Mark 8 with MIDI and add other stuff to get basic piano or synth sounds - inclding all analog/hybrid sound synthesis based devices. That then may require a (bigger) car or better stationwagon, driver(s) and a roadie. Your vid here is more sales promo for a Nord 3 than anything else. Maybe a simple Moog or complex NEW Oberheim other Analog synth brings the sonic pallet to you other than having these series of fast aging digital keyboards.
My personal idea or even opinion I get from your video is not to 'throw away an old shoe before you have a new one', I think your current piano - you should keep and lease a Nord 4 as needed in observation of the above (additional professional exploration). You could even think if getting a 2nd Nord 3 + extra's to match you current or future needs - maybe a Nord 5/6/7-10 (desktop module!).
I love this--thank you for digging deep. I'm gonna check out the Moog or Oberheim, yes. I'm currently doing Syntorial for the second time--I really want to be able to think in terms of sound design and be able to play around live with the shifts in synth sounds--which of course is easier on the 4 but certainly do-able on the 3 as well.
@@judynightmusic I am big into synths and have many. What I will say is the Rhodes Mark 8 is the real deal, laptop for piano VST needed, and at $10K for that new Rhodes, Moog sub 37 about $2K, OB6 about $2600 for used desktop module version. You can get samples into your Stage 3 for all of those instruments much cheaper and you only have to haul 1 keyboard to the gig 🙂
I have a Stage 4 so I am bias lol. I had a Stage 3 and upgraded because all the new features are worth it to me but not the same for everyone. The Stage 3 is still highly capable and a beautiful instrument.
@@cyberprepper I like one keyboard! Thank you for all your input!
@@cyberprepper (Oh, and my ax-edge which I'm digging!)
id say; keep the 3 and buy a new camera
Haha!
Either keep both or stay with the stage 3 sounds that you’re used to. Or… learn how to program the stage 4 to match the 3.
Exactly-but my point was that it’s a different synth engine and you cannot get the same sounds. I kept the 3
@@judynightmusic
Actually you can get the same (or better) sounds from the stage 4 as you have 3 layers and unison mode as well as separate effects for each layer now. All the wave forms are there all the envelopes are there ect. The sound comparison sample you presented wasn’t the same because the mod envelope was not set the same and the waveform was either not dialed in with the same filter type or other related parameter. The path of least resistance is to just keep the 3. Especially if it’s serving your musical purposes. But implying that the 4 is “less than” in terms of the synth engine is premature. 😎🎹
@@danielcolfer4671 hmm...I'm pretty sure with different synth engines you can't necessarily get the same sounds, and that's why they are not creating software to do the conversion from the 3 to the 4. For sure at first the amount of gliss was limited in the 4, so unless they've updated that you would not be able to get the Nosferatu sound. Then the saw waves just sounded different even with the same settings for the sounds on that other clip. But I can't argue that if someone's starting from scratch it's probably better to go with the 4
Simple answer: None.
What do you use?
@@judynightmusicKurzweil on stage. Nord can not beat that flexibility and power. And they sound very good over pa. And... you get so much more for your money. Try a K2700. Or a used Forte.
@@Kaffimusic I'll check it out, thank you!