Just to make things clear, those in the video who got it right COULD tell, but they're all either graphic designers, trained TV calibrators, editors, or writers at LMG.
One big thing that I'd like to add about Dolby Vision... even though cheaper Blu-ray players may support Dolby Vision, a good number of them *do not* support automatic switching. In other words, if you're going to watch a movie, you'd need to check to see if it supports Dolby Vision, and if so, turn it on in the player's settings. Also, you'd want to make sure to turn it off when you're done. That's one of the reasons why I went with the Panasonic model after I sold my Oppo as it was pretty much the only model that supported automatic switching. I think there's a cheaper LG model that supports it now too, but I can't recall off the top of my head. Oh, and as a quick side note, one reason why I never even considered the Series X as a UHD player is that I was fairly disappointed by the Xbox One S back in the day. (That was before I had Dolby Vision anyway.) The biggest problem with the One S is that the disc noise was just so loud that it was easily audible in low volume situations. Good Blu-ray players are actually built to help isolate that noise.
Was gonna say exactly what you said. My biggest gripe is that the Panasonic with sonos and a LG CX does not work right at all. Something to do with panasonic and LG not communicating properly via the HDMi
That doesn't make sense... (I believe you, just don't understand it) Why would a player NOT automatically turn on/off Dolby Vision? It knows Dolby Vision support from the Blu-Ray and, I'm hoping, it can get the supported specs of the TV/Receiver from HDMI, right?
@@Aragorn450 I have the Sony X700. It does does exactly what the OP said. I have to manually switch Dolby Vision on and off. Why is it like that? Your guess is better than mines.
One of the best parts about LTT videos is they're like wikipedia deep dives. I've wondered about this for a while but didn't even know where to start, and got way more info than I even expected. Great video.
Exactly, i feel the same seeing the audiophiles arguing which 1000 dollar headphone has the best audio quality because they bought theirs and theirs is better basically.
@@valestivale4711 @Valesti Vale 8:26 Linus says "For movies that support Dolby Vision, we really do need to apologize for our previous oversight and clarify that we would not recommend using the Xbox series as a Blu-Ray player." 1. By definition, this is an apology. 2. It's an unnecessary one as the Dolby Vision standard is way higher than anything the vast majority of equipment can even output, regardless of the player, particularly for the standards of 2016.
@@thetalesofdaneandco I agree and disagree with your statement about equipment. While many 4K TVs support Dolby Vision now, all Dolby Vision-capable TVs are not created equal. That being said, I think that there is a visual difference between DV and HDR10. I can’t say how big that difference is between each TV, but if you’re spending $500 on a console, $1000+ on a TV and you have a $500+ collection of 4K Blu-Rays, it doesn’t hurt to spend on extra $200 on a proper 4K Blu-Ray player. Yes, not every 4K Blu-Ray has DV, but a majority of new releases do. The player will last you at least five years until digital surpasses disc.
@@kurok1tenshi arguing between different 1000$+ headphones is matter of taste, but ALL the people who listened to my 1000$+ headphones then 300$ ones, said that 300$ ones are shit. Also after that almost everyone spent at least an hour just listening to their favorite music on the 1000$+ ones.
Audiophiles are the same. I remember in the 80s, a friend paid a fortune for a CD setup and fridge-sized sub woofer. He'd explain the 'smooth' bell curve compared to the digital bell curve of bits. He'd then play a bit of music and say "Can you hear it?"... to which I would stare at him for a while and say "Ten grand? Really??".
Smooth brained bell end curve for people who don't understand filters. Those bits go through a low pass filter that cuts the nasty jaggies off from sampling. (FWIW, my subwoofer is roughly fridge sized but that's because it's passive and making it big was cheaper than paying for amplifier power and equalization. :D)
The UB820 is a great player. It’s a shame a lot of manufacturers have pulled out of making 4K players now. Panasonic, Sony and LG are the only ones that seem to be in it still. Panasonic do the best ones. Some of the players have a show stopping issue of not being able to go to the third layer of a 4K disc without freezing or glitching out.
@@rdyramos You answered your own question there haha. "Cheaper" is the keyword, but it's not better. I've had 3 Sony players in this house and both the UBP-X500 and the X800M2 have frozen multiple times. The X700 however I've not had any issues with. Not sure why. Regardless the UB820EB-K is hands down the best 4k player you can get for the price. I've not had one single 100GBTriple layer disc freeze on me since I've been using it. It's been excellent.
@@rdyramos I have the Sony, and even though is image is great, I miss a small display indicating track number and play time, for example. My main complaint being the device is too spartan.
All of this really highlights how far ahead of the curve Pioneer was. They implemented 72Hz 3:3 pull down, and 12-bit processing 15 years ago in DVD and BD
@@XIIchiron78 As a DJ, i completely agree. Their players and software are the absolute undisputed industry standard despite having released the same product every couple of years. It's absurd. They've got that Apple cult following going for them tho so it's most likely never going to change.
@@XIIchiron78 Um. No. Sound United did not buy Pioneer. Pioneer Japan divested itself of all commercial and professional divisions, starting in 2015. The Home Entertainment Division's audio and video technologies and patents (of which I was part of---in marketing and product planning for PDP, DVD and Blu-ray---for nearly 20 years) were purchased by Onkyo Japan. This is where it gets very convoluted. Pioneer Japan continues to this day to exist as the owner of the Pioneer name and logo, as well as the Elite brand and logo in North America, and retains full rights to approve or deny the use of the name and associated logos for any vendor that licenses them, such as Onkyo Japan (or any other company that purchased, say, Pioneer’s car audio, or optical disc divisions). In 2020, Voxx Int'l purchased Onkyo's Home AV Division, in pretty much the same way that Onkyo Japan purchased Pioneer’s Home Ent. Division in 2015. Voxx placed Onkyo's Home AV Division (now called OTKK) under Klipsch's Premium Audio Company's control, which then had to renegotiate terms with Pioneer Japan to continue to design and manufacture Pioneer and Elite-branded audio products. Onkyo Japan went off on its own way, staying heavily involved in OEMing speakers for other brands, such as TCL. That is where it currently stands.
The editors that you have are amazing, because they really took what you said and adjusted the screen in real life so we could understand what you were saying and what it actually meant
Well, I can confirm that there is a marked difference between my Xbox Series X and my Panasonic UB820 when playing 4K discs. I'm using an 85" Samsung 4K Mini-LED display and a Dolby Atmos capable sound system. One big bonus with the UB820 is the HDR Optimiser. That makes a considerable difference all on its own. Generally, I find that the output of the UB820 is better in every respect over the XSX. Of course, they both look good - and to the average consumer, both are pleasing to the eye. In my case, when comparing both players, the UB820 is an obvious step up in quality compared to the XSX, especially when the HDR Optimiser is properly configured for your display and enabled. But, it doesn't stop there. The audio is better too. They both can process and output Dolby Atmos. But, the UB820 does a far better job of it. What's especially noticeable with the XSX is the centre channel dialogue sounding muddled in very noisy scenes. The UB820 seems to have better separation / resolution as regards the centre channel / dialogue. I can actually hear voices clearly over the action. Something that is a struggle with the XSX. Not only that, but in very noisy films - like Top Gun Maverick, when it gets really loud - there's a kind of 'shrill' with some scenes that is uncomfortable to listen to. On the UB820 there is none of that uncomfortable shrill and it can be played at the same loud volumes. So, in my case then - yes, there is a considerable difference in quality between the two devices. The UB820 is definitely the player to use if I want the best out of my 4K collection.
For me the thing that has me investing in a dedicated player is that the Xbox absolutely sucks at handling DVDs. It was impressively bad with my Batman the Animated Series DVD.
There's a lot of confusion because in this field manufacturers want a lot of confusion. I work in pro AV and when it comes to HDMI functions or end user codecs i get really confused really fast, it's all marketing nomenclature and brands that don't support each other for reasons
@@0741921 That depends on whether it's shit you won't notice. If you're not trained to notice the difference, you won't. Professional colorists _are_ going to notice a difference, and my condolences for anyone who is one. Once you learn how to do color grading right, nothing you see on a cheap monitor will ever look right again. At the end of the day, it's all about a person's priorities. Put an audiophile and a musician in the same room and have them listen to two different audio setups. The audiophile is gonna claim that the second set of speakers has more "warmth" and the musician is gonna notice that the pianist totally fucked up near the end of the song. Then you bring an audio technician in and he's gonna be bitching about how none of the speakers have a flat response, nothing is calibrated correctly, the room treatment is garbage, and the subwoofer is set too damn high. "Why would you spend $20k on a sound system and not use any bass traps? It sounds like there's a hippo farting in here."
One added feature of a standalone Panasonic is the dual hdmi outs, allowing hdr video to be passed to a display, and uncompressed audio to be sent to older avrs. That feature alone sold it for me.
@@GamezGuru1 Your AVR may support DV/HDR passthrough to your tv, but, lot of older AVRs (including mine) do not. My TV does support HDR (like a lot of people) but doesn't support earc and my AVR doesn't support HDR passthrough. Therefore, the only way to enjoy both HDR and lossless audio such as DTS-HD/X and Dolby-TrueHD/Atmos is with something like a blueray player with dual outputs. You're just lucky your specific AVR is new enough... But for a lot of people, their AVR is perfectly good/brilliant but lacks 4k or HDR passthrough (or both). A blueray player adds this functionality and gives you a better technical media experience and even though linus spent $500, they can also be had for $250 used which makes a lot of sense.
Thank you Linus. The UB820 serves me well but I am a pretty big cinephile. It's also worth noting that there are quite a few different "profiles" or flavors of DolbyVision. The Bluray players are the devices capable of showing you a disc that was encoded with the FEL aka "full enhancement layer". It's more than just tone mapping in that case.
Interesting! So I've got an LG CX and a host of 4K Blu-Rays, and I've been using a PS5 for playback. What would you recommend to someone like me who wants to get true Dolby Vision? Or should I just pocket the money until I inevitably get a QD-OLED down the line...
@@O1OO1O1 It depends enormously on the title. But as a general rule of thumb, anything shot on film will see an improvement on disc, because film grain is the first casualty of lowering the bitrate of the compression algorithm (discs have much more space than streams, particularly when it comes to occasional spikes) while modern films shot digitally (many of which go through a 2k Digital Intermediate anyway) are near-identical in most circumstances.
@@IainLambert are there any good resources for this stuff? I've been amazed at how, in 2022,we can't just go out and buy something and expect it to be good, so I'd like to learn the basics so I can make informed purchases and not waste money buying the same content twice.
Is it just me or is the videography/editing really really good in this episode? Like the switch between the content and the sponsor block is very evident in quality. I didn't notice this previously on my phone.
I think its important for a youtuber like linus to clarify how video data is managed, since his whole platform revolves around that(and audio ofc). I can imagine many tech geeks watching this video from the comment section, waiting to make a correction
Hey so since we're doing followups to old videos, it wold be cool to see a revisiting to the "multi user, 1 CPU" concept. With the explosion in core counts in the last few years and things like GPU splitting, it would be really interesting to see what could be done in a single system now.
That would be pretty cool. I think they could also look at ways of doing it that don't involve virtual machines, since there are applications like nucleus coop that let you run multiple instances of the same game on one computer and connect them via LAN. This would obivously only work for gaming (and only supported games at that) but it could be a good way for people to have a lan party/couch coop experience with only one pc.
GPU splitting realy isnt a thing yet except on very select things like windows but why would anyone want to use windows for their hypervisor OS NVIDIA and AMD need to start offering that for all OSes but they wont because its money since you need to pick up quadro
I have a Panasonic ub820 and haven’t regretted it for over a year now. Between Dolby vision support, chroma upsampling, and other features not mentioned here like dvd/1080p Blu Ray upscaling, hdr tone mapping for a 1000nit cap, and very flexible audio options, it’s been really nice to have a dedicated player. I’d say that if you primarily watch movies on disc it’s worth getting one.
Totally agree, I remember buying a Pioneer BDP LX52 back in the day and hooked up to my Panasonic TV the picture was outstanding compared to the PS3 or PS4 I can imagine buying a HIGHEND Blu Ray player today would show the same difference, plus the extra features, well worth the expense.
Very silly and specific question, but do you know if your player has position memory for more than one disc. I watch many shows on blu ray and switching from one disc to another without losing the memory of where I left off at is the one reason I still use the PS3. None of the current console can memorize the position of more than one disc, and I have a LG and Sony region free player, neither of which can memorize more than one disc.
Honestly, the water bottle at 4 minutes looks nice, I would really love an LTT water bottle design, but in like a really cool matte or concrete Gray. I haven't bought one yet, but I would legitimately buy that one.
It prob added a bunch of time to the production for mastering the HDR. With HDR not really having that huge of adoption yet, I believe they just decided it wasn't worth the extra time with most of their viewers watching it on their computers or phones and not their home theater.
@@jakekiedaisch2279 Fair point, but I didn't mean *everything* being HDR. For example, a video that contains portions on HDR vs non-HDR would be a perfect candidate.
I forget the details but they spoke about this in a WAN show or something a while ago. Essentially youtube doesn't handle HDR video well and it effected the other quality options or something.
I wanted to let you guys know, this is why I really love LTT. You guys take a fairly complicated technical problem (or set of problems) and dissect them into easy to understand smaller problems. Does it teach me everything I want to know? No, but now I know what sorts of questions I should be asking, and how to look for more information. Nice job as always.
i bought this 4k blu ray player last month for 350€ .Upscaling 1080p to 4k is really incredible. i don't have good tv i'm waiting the end of this year for good price but i can tell upscaling is amazing and dts hd master audio decode is very good this is a new quality sound for me
Have an xbox one x, bought a 4k blu-ray player purely for Dolby vision/atmos, looks amazing, but what blew me away was how good the sound quality is, its insane how high-quality is it. Audio is definitely a huge upgrade over streaming services.
I use Xbox x for discs with a 3.1.2 setup. I agree- the sound is amazing and isn't muffled. I wish there was a reliable disk rental service. I tried a couple and it took at least a week to get the discs.
This is very correct, and it’s also useful for projectors. I’ve got the step down model from the one covered in the video and for HDR10 content it does great with lesser and greater displays.
I'm personally using the Sony UBP X800 M2 for my 4K UHD discs, and have an Epson 5050UB at 135" and it looks absolutely incredible, but when you want to experience the best SOUND, there's no comparison. Streaming simply can't hang.
Im thinking of getting the Pioneer UB820-k , but some prefer the cheaper Sony - UBP-X800M2 , not sure why. I keep "hearing that the X800M2" has better sound
As a Panasonic 820 owner and a Series X owner there is just something nice about a normal DVD/Blu-Ray player. Oh and the remote is a big thing for me the basic normal remote with the Panasonic is nice to have. Also the Panasonic can be had for less than $500 i paid $399 for mine when Best Buy had them on sale.
One of the reasons I have a Panasonic 4K Blu-ray player is that it lets you adjust the position of the subtitles. This is very important for since I have a cinemascope (extra-wide) screen for my projector, so if the subtitles are in the black area, they would be off my screen.
That's pretty nice. The Panasonic one they used in this video seems great, but also relatively expensive and I'm not sure if it fits. Any good alternatives these days that are potentially cheaper to get the most out of my TV and high-end soundbar (Samsung HW-Q990B)?
Also some of the mid/high end Panasonics have FANTASTIC 1080p upscaling to 4K thats better than most TVs and this includes watching 1080p Netflix and other streaming content using the blu ray player's own apps.
This video was fun. The main reason to go with the 4K Panasonic Blu-ray player is for the superior audio experience you get with the 4K physical disk over the 4K digital streaming services. One of my favorite movies is the first Top Gun 4K Blu-ray. It’s expanded Dolby Atmos surround is amazing. Apollo 13 in DTS X is also great. The Hunt for Red October is also fun .My bedroom can only handle a 5.1 surround system but it still is a fun to hear. Hopefully your team will do a follow up to this video and compare 4K streaming audio to the 4K Blu-ray. You will be pleasantly surprised on the difference in quality from the disk to streaming formats. I have the lg 65 c2 oled tv. Once I got that I had to upgrade my receiver to Dolby vision and Atmos along with the Panasonic 4K Blu-ray you mentioned. Thank you for your great content.
I have a pretty nice Sony TV and an entry level Sony 4k player. The difference between a 4K disc and streaming is so obvious to me. For dark scenes especially, streaming sucks.
I think his ultimate point is 4K Blu-ray is noticeably better than either regular Blu-ray or 4K streaming, but if you're a gamer & not that heavily into movies Xbox Series consoles are good enough. I'm not really a gamer & am more into movies; the features I wanted basically steered me to the UB820, but Xbox gamers like LTT may not want to spend that much extra cash on incremental improvements over their console.
Not sure what brand of meth your smoking to think a bluray disc plays high quality audio then a PC. A PC can steam pure flac uncompressed audio without a bit rate cap tf you talking this whole video is an ad for Panasonic. Why you think bluray players cost 500 now they are absolutely worthless when your cellphone does a better job
Ub9000 owner here, and I have to say 3 years in its worth it. I run it through a Sony 4k projector onto a 132" screen (soon to be 150") and the added nuanced quality really shows up on such a large screen. Would recommend if youre into home theater
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6:06 explains quite good why it is so hard to get two screens that have an identical image output for dual-head screen which is far more annoying than this IMHO.
I got myself an i1 Display Pro second hand off ebay a lot cheaper than it would be new. I use this with the free DisplayCal application and assuming you're not trying to calibrate a wide gamut display and a normal one you can get pretty much almost exact results. Other thing to keep in mind is if you want proper uniformity you want to try and match the displays on brightness too. It can do wonders with crappy blue-cast laptop screens too! I don't work with colour professionally but this calibrator has made me very happy :)
You can calibrate them yourself. You don't get a professional calibration but a good enough one that will make both displays look "identical". It only costs you around $200 for the hard- and software.
This is a fantastic video that covers every odd little issue I have with my series X as a 4k player. I have the Panasonic now and I'm happy with the performance. I don't know if it's actually worth the $500, but there aren't many other options that do what it does, as well as it does. It also has a feature that allows it to calibrate levels for projectors, which is another nice touch.
The other really big thing is disc compatibility and readability. Also using the xbox as the player is not as easy / friendly. Where putting a disc in and using the dvd remote is much easier.
Two reasons I'm planning to buy a Panasonic UB820 (with a region-unlock modification): 1. HDR optimizer. It's a killer feature that lets you optimize the HDR playback for your display. So if you have an OLED like I do, you can set it to optimize the output for your not-quite-so-bright display. Higher-end TVs have similar features, but to my knowledge, none of them are as good as the UB820's optimizer, particularly for 4K Blu-rays. 2. Upscaling. When it comes to upscaling Blu-rays and DVDs to 4K, Panasonic's machines appear to be the cream of the crop. How do they compare to upscaling in Sony's flagship TVs? I'm not entirely sure. But until I can try one for myself, the UB820 will do fine. I have an LG UBK90, which I got for a great discount, because it was the cheapest player I could find at the time that supported automatic Dolby Vision switching. Cheaper 4K Blu-ray players, and most of Sony's from what I can tell, require you to manually enable and disable Dolby Vision, forcing you to verify that your discs have it before you change the setting. Unfortunately, the UBK90 has issues when changing layers on triple-layer 4K discs; when the layer change happens, the video can often freeze up like a scratched DVD. That's another reason I'm looking to switch to the Panasonic.
I remember when talking about this back in the days, I could not tell the difference between the Xbox player and a stand alone BR player but everybody had superman eyes and extra $500 to spend. On the other hand I have done HDR and DV comparisons and the difference is very minimum to my eyes, at least not enough to pay extra money for a TV that supports it.
And there lies the elephant in the room, it depends how sensitive your eyes are. I'm one of those who finds audio and video differences very obvious. Plus it also depends exactly what you watched it on, as I was going for OLED anyway it wasn't "extra money" to get Dolby Vision.
@@alexatkin Yes I have the C1 Oled and Hisense U8G and both have DV, only Samsung doesn't support it but still looks great, especially the new QD-OLED.
@@edwarddore7617 it is a game changer on OLED because OLEDs have weak brightness performance and therefore need the help of DV. DV isn’t needed on powerful nit TVs like high end LCD-LED and the new next generation of OLED: QD-OLED from Samsung.
I bought my Sony X-800 shortly after it was introduced. I purchased it because multiple reviewers said it was second only to Oppo's 4k Blu-ray player at deinterlacing and upscaling DVD and Blu-ray discs. (I'm sad that Oppo bailed out of high end players. I'll bet a modern Oppo player would be amazing.) My disc based collection consists of about 70% DVDs, 25% Blu-rays and 5% 4k Blu-rays. With the help of friends, I've compared the X800's performance at deinterlacing and upscaling done by over half a dozen 4K and standard Blu Ray players, deinterlacing and upscaling done internally by multiple 4k TVs and de-interlacing and upscaling by three different home computers. So far, the X800 hasn't been bested - period. In some cases the X800 does a noticeably better deinterlace-upscale than does the competition; in other cases it's hard to tell. None of my friends are gamers, so, no comparisons with gaming consoles. I'm sure deinterlacing and upscaling hardware has improved since my X-800 purchase. I'm sure my player has been bested by multiple late generation players. That's irrelevant to my point. Performance with 4k source material is only one performance parameter of a high end player. Top tier handling of non-4K material is, and likely will continue to be, my number one priority when it comes to spinning disk players because, as you pointed out, 4K material looks great regardless of the player. That isn't true for lower resolution and lower quality source discs.
@@eternalbeing3339 I don't think the X-800 had any competition at its price 4.5 years ago. I'm glad to know that there are better players out there now, abet, in the case of the DP-UB820K, at twice the price I paid for my Sony. I do appreciate the update.
I bought a Panasonic U820 a couple years ago, but ended up using my consoles for 4K Blu-rays and put the U820 in the living room with a basic 4K TV. Now that I just upgraded to a 4K OLED, I told my wife that I will be taking back the U820 for movies :)
@@RichyRich2607 Sure did! Since the living room is baby proof and has toys everywhere including the TV stand, she actually said it was good idea and wanted me to take the rest of my stuff (classic mini consoles and Switch dock) out of the TV stand lol.
So.. I feel like this needs to be tested, since, to my recollection, Sony was credited with creating the Blu-Ray technology in the first place, What about a PS5 vs a standalone 4k UHD Blu-Ray player
I’d like to know as well. One of the reasons I never got a dedicated UHD player was that I wanted to get a PS5 since it was announced and figured it’d do a good job.
The PS5 uses a 12 bit YCBCR444 color space which makes the image practically identical to the dedicated Panasonic player in the video, as opposed to Xbox's cheaper 10 bit implementation
@@Genku The lack of Dolby Vision is a big no, but then they only just started supporting it on their TVs. Its weird how Sony have let themselves fall behind on these things for so long when they were pioneers and their surround sound receivers are excellent, supporting Dolby Vision just fine.
Sony made Blu-Ray, but they did not make the Dolby Vision Standard (Dolby did) If the Sony wanted to advertise the PS5 as Vision compliant, they need to get their Tech certified with Dolby. They obviously don't think the AV game is worth the time/money
Great topic for a video. As someone with both an Xbox and PS5 for whom the 4K disc playback was a big selling point, I think I want to get a dedicated player at this point. It’s a shame that it’s such an afterthought in this latest generation. I miss the days when a console could be a reference quality movie player. My 60GB fat launch model PS3 wasn’t just my primary blu ray player for over a decade - it was my ONLY blu ray player. We had it so simple then!
I'm thinking the same thing. My PS5 is struggling with UHD discs. I've searched the Internet for a solution and have come up empty. I partially bought the PS5 to play UHD discs. I'm a sucker!!
Late to this party but I was under the impression that PS5 UHD were superior to Xbox UHD playback? I read somewhere that PS5 supports 10bit colour output but Xbox supports only 8.
I went and bought the ub820 on sale shortly after this came out from using an xbox as well. Such a difference! I had been kneecapping my TV's capabilities by not supplying it with DV apart from streaming. Made me look at my audio 5.1 set up as well and was able to reconfigure and repurpose/swap out a few things on the cheap for an entry level but competent 5.2.2 system. really took it to the next level. This really does improve image quality to where I can tell a difference with the proper media. Fantastic upscaling for standard blu ray and dvd, maybe even better than my old integra 8.9 with it's HQV Reon VX processing.
I love my Blu-rays, but I'm investing in a home server for my remuxes because it's getting ridiculously troublesome to have the right hardware and even some studios not releasing Dolby Vision Blu-ray, while on the "alternative" websites you see people putting together hybrid releases of the HDR Blu-ray with incredible bitrate with the Dolby Vision extracted from streaming services. It's madness.
This is why I have a dedicated PLEX server for my theatre. It's sad that I have to resort to "alternative" websites because they refuse to make Blu-ray the best it can be, but...it's also a dying medium.
I'm not even sure what he meant by that. I'd like to see some references or evidence of what he's describing. I briefly searched around and didn't find anything obvious. The Series X supports 24p playback and as long as your display supports 24p or some kind of pulldown or you have a refresh rate high enough to multiply evenly from 24p I'm not sure I understand how the Xbox would "drop frames". It's true that 24p playback on 4K display output was broken at some point but that was fixed a while back.
@@Gurben92 he said maybe one picture per minute? so i think you can ignore it. that would be 1 picture every 1440 pictures. that is kind of nothing, i would say.
@@lookitskazzy I think he means that with (older) NTSC video content, the refresh rate isn't actually 60Hz flat, but it's something like 59.97Hz. Even though that is some sort of leftover relic of the analog times, with the purpose being to prevent any issues with modulation or something, a lot of video content, especially on DVDs, still use that. And a lot of TVs should still properly understand this situation. But when you force that 59.97Hz video into 60Hz output, a single frame will be dropped at some point just to keep the video timing correct. With 24p content this shouldn't be an issue, though.
Fun/annoying fact: while they used proprietary audio for their games, sony does support dolby atmos when watching movies if you changed the output fro pcm to dolby in the settings. I have a Stand alone sony player that does have the manual switching thing, but most of my movies are 4k BR with DV
As someone who isn't noise sensitive and who never considered a Blu-Ray or DVD Driver after getting a PS3 ever again and so far unly having used two 32inch 768p and 1080p TV's, I know why people would complain about it but it doesn't make serious sense. Back in 2017-2019 my family was broke. My mother leaved the household thogheter with me and my sister. We then only had my PS3, PS4 and our non-Smart-TV 720p. Movies, both our old DVD's and newer Blu-Rays, and exspacially the ability to watch crisper and better Streaming was worth gold to us. If you can Support buing a 1000$ or more 4k ultra 50inch+ TV, you sure can afford the extra money for a dedicated Blu-Ray Player. The Consoles are meant for people like me and my family back then who can't spare much more and need an AIO solution. No 200€ Smart TV, no 4K HDR or anything like that. No extra sound boxes. Just the bare minimum. And if you approach consoles with Disk Drives that way, damn sure they are delicate hardware you'd want to snack up.
Also keep in mind that the Panasonic player also has an option to select your TV format i.e. OLED, LCD, LED etc. I also get screen/image retention on my C9 OLED. Many people say it's because of the green the use booting the console up and also the U.I. but I have also seen it in games like Sunset Overdrive and ReCore.
Image retention is a result of a lack of cooling of the display panel. Which is also the reason I recently bought a G2 instead of a C2 to replace my B8. In online comparisons you could clearly see the G2 getting deep(er) blacks in areas of bright highlights where the C2 remained more grey ish causing a decrease in contrast on the C2. You can see this in detail of the clouds but also in shadows of brighter greenery like trees, bushes, and gras.
Something you neglected to consider is the HDR tone mapping the UB820 offers. It's a game changer, and transforms regular HDR10 content into something closer to Dolby Vision.
@@sebaslive3476 If you're in the US or Canada you can't buy Panasonic TV's, which have the best picture quality. So getting the player to tonemap and present to your TV (with your TV's tonemapping disabled) will do a better job than the TVs built in processing, unless perhaps it's a bleeding edge Sony model. UB820 also offers a tonemap option where it will tonemap to a specified peak luminance in a more graceful manner than having the TV do this or simply hardclipping at your displays peak luminance.
@@Moondoggy1941 Watch some HDTVTest reviews of TV's (and Digital Trends) then use RTings to shoot out your choices on price/metrics. You should consider your use case, if you value Movies/TV and picture accuracy then OLEDs + (Sony > LG > all others). For Gaming: Sony + LG + Samsung, if you predominantly game you will be fine still going with an OLED. For work (spreadsheets/word/webpages) OLEDs are not going to cut it as they will dim to prevent damage to the pixels + the burn in risk. Burn-in is definitely not an issue for regular content and gaming but for work OLEDs are not appropriate. Panasonic is the No.1 for video enthusiasts but is region-locked and it's neck-and-neck between them and Sony anyway. If I could pick any TV right now it would be the LG G3 or the upcoming Sony A95L. However getting last years flagships on clearance or dropping down a SKU may be wiser as LG's C lineup normally offer better value for 8/10 the same quality as the 'G' line. You may be able to pickup a C2 or Sony A90J for much less which are still amazing TVs, but if you have the money I'd absolutely go for the G3 or A95L as they feature a new generation MLA OLED panel that provides nearly double the peak brightness which really makes an impact in bright HDR games + movies. LED/LCD based TV's such as the Samsung QLEDS or LG miniLED won't track the EOTF properly (which means they display content at brightness levels the creator didn't intend) but are great for gaming/work without risk of burn-in, however picture quality is not comparable to what modern OLEDs can achieve and you may get blooming. For what it's worth, my gaming TV is a QN90A, it doesn't support Dolby Vision, it doesn't track the EOTF properly, but it still kicks ass for gaming so really it's about your use case.
One thing I really love about the Xbox is that, compared to my other media devices (Roku and Fire TV), it has a TON of information about the HDMI connection.
I'm sorry to say that but Rocky/FireTV and most of the other media players are pretty shit compared to Nvidia Shield TV Pro 😉 You will like the options there, trust me.
I've been using my Xbox One S as a Blu-Ray player and honestly loving it. I was impressed it could do DTS etc. With a bit of menu messing around. That being said don't have a TV that can do HDR so... Lol Also as an engineer/colourist in film the description of RGB vs ycbcr and 444 vs 422 etc was good :)
@@mikeytaylor1111 yes, i like how it works seamlessly with my Sony tv. I can use the tv remote to control my Sony 4k UHD player. However, i have to manually change the setting for Dolby vision for each disk. Apparently the Panasonic does it automatically.
@@Jdshald I really enjoy films and the home theater experience but occasionally play some video games as well. So I’ve always used an Xbox for the last 15 years or so for playing dvds and blu ray. Up until recently I learned that a dedicated player might actually be a better choice for watching movies. So I think I will finally get one. But I’m a little late to the party as everything is going digital. Thanks!
Finally, an explanation for those who are configuring their new oled screens and didnt understand crap about RGB, YCbCR... Thanks Linus, excellent video.
I'd like to see you guys comment on the HDR optimizer feature of the UB 820. It applies dynamic tone mapping after you select the peak luminance of your TV in the settings of the player. So if you have an OLED TV, it will tone map to like a peak brightness of 800. Even if the content was mastered to 4,000
I'd also love for those high-end Bluray players to have an even more granular setup, like, an advanced mode where you can actually chose the peak brightness of your screen so that the dynamic tone mapping is even more precise
@@FlipperWolf the more expensive ones give you three or four brackets of peak brightness ranges to pick from. The 820 only has two I think, but the 9000 has one that's really low for projectors, a crappy tv option that only goes up to something less than 1000 nits, a regular nice TV option that's around 1000, and a really nice option for reference monitors.
@@73rmin8r ub820 has the same options as the 900. It’s the ub420 or whatever that has less options. The options here are 1500 bits for high end LCD, 1000 nits for OLED or standard LCD, and 500 nits for projector.
@@dontpokethebear3893 Looked it up, the ub9000 has 1 setting for OLED, 2 settings for projectors, and 3 settings for LCD TVs. th-cam.com/video/oTw_Toh0PzA/w-d-xo.html I think you're probably right about the 820's settings
"My setup is so much more color accurate than yours" Yes, it cost $3,000, as opposed to my $500, and yet I still enjoy the movie exactly the same amount... Never understood the color-accuracy flex, as long as it's not wildly out, you need a Dulux color chart to tell the difference anyway.
I think there's a small subset of people that don't actually enjoy better color and audio and all that. They enjoy the feeling of knowing that their stuff is better than what others have. They just want to know that they're better. Just a small bit of elitism.
Another Dolby Vision tip, if you're running a newer 4K Sony tv that supports it you need to go into the external input settings and make sure the HDMI receiving the Dolby Vision signal has Enhanced HDMI mode enabled, they're set to standard by default and will handle 4K resolution at Standard but not Dolby Vision unless set to Enhanced (Dolby Vision) HDMI mode.
I LOVE my UB820. 4k Blu Rays are a great hobby and the qualify is unreal. It can be really fun to watch an old movie remastered in 4k. They look like they were made yesterday.
Thank you for mentioning Super Audio CD playback, even if it was just in passing! I'm more of an audio guy than I am a visual person and would probably have a difficult time telling one 4K Blu-Ray player from another. But sound is more nuanced for me. I have a Super Audio CD in my music collection and I love to play it on my cheap little Sony BDP-S5100. I have found that Sony players often have SACD built in, which saves me having to purchase a very expensive standalone SACD player.
@@msd5808 SACDs use Direct Stream Digital for their encoding rather than PCM, which they claim produces greater data density. To my ears, they do sound similar to regular CDs, except for one thing: SACD supports four distinct channels where Redbook CDs only support two. The one SACD that I own is a demo recording of some drum and bugle corps and I play it on my 5.1 system. I can very clearly hear individual instruments coming from all around me.
I got the Samsung k8500 free with my tv then I upgraded to the Panasonic 820 which I’ve had over 3yrs now since launch and I spotted the difference between the players straight away. I’m just a average joe with a love of films and I can clearly see the differences
@@matthewjuarbe5826 You'd be surprised at how much BluRay hardware gets donated out here (Denver). I always assumed it was because of the prevalence of streaming services. I've also snagged an external USB 3.0 Pioneer BluRay burner ($5), external USB 2.0 LG BluRay player ($5), and internal LG BluRay burner (NIB, $15). I'd love to get my hands on an internal 4k player drive. Otherwise the oldest working optical drive I own is a BluRay/HD DVD internal combo player from Hitachi/LG, I fished it out of a Gateway I found in a dumpster with bad caps on the motherboard. I do have an original Xbox One that I rebuilt for free out of a broken unit also pulled from a dumpster and a unit given to me with a ripped-off HDMI port. However, I hardly use it now that I've built an ITX system about the same size as a One X. Turns out a 9th Gen i7 and 980Ti offer more than enough power to upstage an original Xbox One. I use the LG for the ITX, the Pioneer for the main ATX, then the matching LG internal drives occupy the NAS box (one burner, one player), and the sampler box has the Hitachi alongside the I/O front panel for an X-Fi card. Both NAS box and sampler box cases were picked up used and had hideous beige cd rom and rewritable drives installed (they're from 2001), so rather than spend extra money on sourcing hard to find Lian Li aluminum covers, I just filled the holes with newer BluRay drives I had on hand. Black bezels look so much cleaner with aluminum than beige.
@@anakinlowground5515 Not only that, it takes training sometimes to tell a difference. Like people who aren't used to a 144hz monitor or 240 hz one will say there isn't a difference. But then if they have been on a 144 for a long time and try to go back, it will feel incredible painful. I can of course point to ways they could tell a faster refresh rate like when scrolling text or moving a mouse fast, but for the tech illiterate, they won't notice until they get used to the better refresh rates, but once they have, they will have a hard time going back. It is the same with lots of things. Until you know the difference, you won't care, but once you do, you will.
@@gruanger Huh, y'know, you have a point there. my laptop has a 144 Hz monitor, and I occasionally just switch it is 60 Hz, and yeah, there is quite a noticeable difference
You know the people complaining would be the hardcore aficionados that make up a small subset of your overall viewer base, but you still addressed it. That’s actually pretty cool
The differences between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 are not as subtle as you're are stating them as being. In fact, the better quality of TV you use to view the differences between the two signals on, the more perceptible those differences are.
The thing is that you need to actually have 4:4:4 input signals. For gaming or other cases where a computer is directly connected, sure you get 4:4:4. For movies, TV shows, or even camera footage, you can be happy if you actually get 4:2:2. Most will be 4:2:0.
@@twoknife that's what I was thinking after linus said those blu ray movies are mastered in 4:2:2 (5:00) knowing that the discussion is pretty much pointless (like discussing and comparing 4K upscaling capabilities of different hardware)
All video on youtube, blu-ray and netflix is 420. There are some sattelites used for FEED between hemispheres that uses 422, bur that is not normal TV.
@@lolerie Actually, Broadcast standard is 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 Hz interlaced @ 10 bit 4:2:2, but many cable companies and some Satellite broadcasters only output 720p @ 10 bit 4:2:0.
@@TheScrubsfanforever he claims at 4:05 that chroma subsampling is affecting available colors. This is simply not true. That is what bit depth does. What 4:2:0 means in for block of pixels 4 pixels wide, first line has 2 color samples and second line has 0 color samples. Color information gets copied from those neighboring pixels that have it. All the pixels still have their Y luminance channel. There won't be any visible color shift and all the colors are still available. What CS actually does it makes image look softer with less defined edges.
I actually was excited to have an Series X and start collecting some 4k steelbooks BUT it was loud playing them discs, nothing horrible but you'd notice it in a quiet scene, got a Panasonic because reviews said it was whisper quiet (as well as image advantages) and it is indeed quiet. Whilst the image difference between the two would be very difficult for the average user to tell the difference but everyone will notice the disc spinning noise from the Xbox.
I just wish the masses were more appreciative of physical media and that streaming didn't convey this idea that it's the future of media consumption when the quality is just not as good as if you had a disc
If you don’t have or want a games console it makes sense. I did have a noticeable sound quality difference using higher quality cables on a digital audio signal once. Repeatable but I don’t know why.
4:2:0 vs 4:4:4 shouldn’t affect gradient either that much or even at all. Bit depth does, HDR processing (and it’s bit depth) does. Source and display bit depth does. Even the display can enhance or remove the effect of banding. Lowering the chroma subsampling, probably not to a meaningful degree.
Stronger subsampling (4:2:0) can cause significant color bleed on details with high contrast, especially on web streaming services like TH-cam where you're watching up close. For me personally 4:2:2 is still pretty good and pretty much indistinguishable for real life footage. But high YUV -> RGB conversion error is way more noticable to the average user than the chroma resolution. I once found the output video a bit strange after fiddling with it in ffmpeg trying to transcode it from ProRes to H264 I believe. There was some incorrect encoder option or messed up filter which resulted in terrible YUV 4:2:0 -> raw 24-bit RGB conversion (wrong colors in highlights, mids, shadows, etc). Even 8-bit 4:2:0 video or image can have great gradients with pretty much no color banding as long as the decoding, transformation, and encoding is done correctly without floating point error or other whacky stuff going on.
@@VideoklipBG very true. Lower chroma sub-sampling will defiantly lead to risk of color bleed. But I think in this film it’s described as a smaller color space which is completely wrong. Color bleed / fussy pixels / soft edges yes, smaller color space no.
@@VideoklipBG Linus says “we get one quarter of the color space with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 nets us half of our color space” which is completely wrong. We get one quarter / half of the chroma resolution.
@@eriklindahl7376 True, and also when using better renderer like madVR on MPC that scales the chroma up to the luma resolution using high quality filtering it looks really good even on 4:2:0. What I notice is that most people don't understand color spaces at all and I sometimes see awful conversion between BT.601, BT.709 and sRGB on the web. Badly written software does this often too. Edit: Can't say much about Linus, this might have been a mistake in script, but it is definitely wrong to confuse it with color space
If you know what to look for its very easy to spot and then you can't unsee it, for example computer generated fonts scrolling in an credit, flickering due to the lower chroma resolution.
Oh, you hit the nail on the head…. If you dont have the display calibrated, you are likely comparing green apples to red apples. And, by the way, to the folks this matters, they’re buying the UB9000 … not the 8 series. This was a great video - pretty much fact this if cinema content is NOT a passion, most consumers will be 10000% satisfied with even a $150 4K UHD player.
To the folks that it matter to the image on the UB9000 is the exact same as the UB820. The processor and components are the same. The UB9000 stands out because of analogue audio and a metal chassis. The rest is the same.
@@Gurminder_S - this is true, however, add to this the analogue path is separated from the video path so that when using pure direct, there is no interplay between the audio and video signal. This creates a noticeable difference in analog playback in my system.
I wish we knew the reason why Microsoft hasnt implemented Dolby Vision for disc playback. Whether its a Dolby licensing (cost) decision, or if its simply buried in the list of enhancements and hasnt risen to the top yet? Personally I'd pay a licensing fee for DV in the same way I had to for the optional Dolby Atmos and DTS X apps.
I don't think it's license as you paying for dobly Atmos app is you paying for the license instead of Microsoft. Maybe dobly doesn't want to or care enough to implement an app. I think the biggest issue with dobly vision is you need a display too to display the content and I think dobly found out that most PC users don't really look for dobly vision monitors which go for very high prices.
@@shoraz … it’s a CONSOLE. A good portion of people use consoles on TVs, not gaming monitors (though I do realize most do, the Xbox was created as a home media device, remember the live tv bs back in the Xbox one time period?)
@@braapybobby and they scratched this as being the all in one device for the house. They stated this with the reveal of the series x as they were going back to gaming focused.
@@MrC0D4LIFE Such a waste, was so nice having my cable passthrough my xbox so that I could have each of the big 3 consoles plugged into my tv at once and not sacrifice cable. Now I have to have a separate streaming box, blu ray player and get to pick one console.
I realize this is 7 months old, but a dedicated UHD 4K blu ray player that supports DV for $180 now from Sony. I was thinking of upgrading our PS4 Pro to a PS5 with blu ray capabilities in mind but thanks to this video I won't be going that route.
Two things not mentioned here… the Panasonic made less vibration noise than either Xbox or my less expensive Sony stand alone player. Same goes for disc hang up/freeze/skip issues. Zero in months of watching lots of disc vs several on both my other players.
Wait, I thought you rip all of your Blu-Ray discs & save it on your personal server? You even did a video on the new server you set up for the new house.
I just got an 820 after using an Xbox One S and then a Series X as players. I can definitely tell the difference. Also the upscaling it’s doing with Blu-rays is on another level, I’ve never seen colors pop more. It’s not a placebo either, I compared Blu-ray Discs on the 820, LG, Sony, Magnavox and Samsung players that I own and the UB820 is noticeably better
There is also HLG, an HDR format that extends and behaves much like SDR. It's supported on TH-cam and is an interesting take compared to the other fixed standards.
Go with option 3: Rip your UHDs on the PC, put them on a drive and watch them via a Media Player. If it's a simple video file, not an *.iso, you also skip all the "don't pirate" shit, which you as a legit buyer shouldn't even have to watch in the first place, as a legit buyer. Now you also have a digital backup when your discs are scratched or will die (something something 30-100 years if they are made and stored perfectly, but that never happens, so... 2-20 years?)
Yeah, I was even going to put a comment very similar. Also, the best thing with Plex is you can play it just about anywhere like the other comment. Not to mention the PC blu ray drive is cheaper and can even get a device like Apple TV for a very good price these days I'm even still using 2017 one.
Now you will be paying with your time. even though I do prefer it myself. not going to waste $500 on a player. xbox and PS should have a pro version with Dolby vision support.
@@greenumbrellacorp5744 Flash a drive if you found one with a custom firmware and use a third-party tool like MakeMKV to rip the contents of the disc, the time is the price you are paying for, unless there is another way I'm not aware of?
My best reason for going with a dedicated player is power consumption. An Xbox playing a 4K disk will use an exorbitant amount of power compared to a dedicated player, and especially the high-end players have better tools for things like handling Metadata and image optimizations that aren't just gimmicks. I'm personally running a 5-year old Sony UBP-X700, which I got for $200 and it's rock solid for performance with its biggest downside being some noise when playing certain disks.
@@MobiusKun I'd say most people could access it, most smartphones within the last 3 years support HDR to some extent and I don't know for sure but I feel a fair amount of people watch TH-cam on their phones rather than their TV'S. and those who are hardcore fans and watch on their TV'S are likely to have HDR capable ones anyway. I could be wrong though
@@MobiusKun niche? in 2022? every single phone supports HDR 10+. even midrangers. Their content is clearly targeted at the mobile market looking at their aspect ratio.
There are still reasons for a standalone Blu-ray/4K player outside of what you outlined. 1. The Series X (and PS5) don't have 100% compatibility for the standard Blu-ray format -- specifically 3D Blu-ray. Yep, not as dead as you would believe -- titles as recent as Dune (2021) have been released on the format. And Marvel and Pixar continue to release nearly every one of their titles to date on region-free 3D Blu-ray. I still enjoy the occasional 3D title on my projector setup (by the far the BEST way to watch 3D). 2. (And we're just a little in tinfoil hat territory here, but bear with me). Rights-holders are just waiting for the end of physical media because the idea of someone having unrestricted and permanent access to near-theater grade versions of their content doesn't make sense to them for continued monetization of that content. It's not out of the realm of possibility to speculate that at some point down the line, they'll employ some kind of killswitch that keeps connected disc players from playing certain content (if not necessarily ALL of it). A standalone player never needs to be connected unless you happen to use the streaming apps on it (you shouldn't be using those inferior apps, BTW). I guarantee you always-connected game consoles will be at the top of that list.
@@adrianbergqvist8622 Microsoft just killed UHD Blu-ray playback on Windows with certain hardware configurations. I personally wouldn't rely on PC for the future of continued Blu-ray support. I've always used it as a last resort myself.
"3D Blu-ray. Yep, not as dead as you would believe" Yes it is. Just because they can still get suckers to buy it doesn't mean it isn't dead. Nobody shoots for 3D anymore. It's as dead as the Avatar Franchise.
If you have linux that would never be a problem. Also there would always be someone who makes some sort of open source software work for windows as well.
@@mzaite "Just because they can still get suckers to buy it doesn't mean it isn't dead." A little nasty, there, don't you think? If I buy it and still enjoy it, that makes me a sucker? Point is, there's still a market for it (outside the US) and they're getting enough of a return on their investment to keep producing it. The very definition of "not dead". Just because it's not getting pushed as hard as it was, doesn't mean it's "dead". It's definitely niche, now. "Nobody shoots for 3D anymore." Irrelevant. "Shooting for 3D" was never a guarantor of good 3D in the first place. Some of the best 3D presentations out there are post-conversions of movies that were never planned for 3D. Studios simply decided that it wasn't worth the time and money when they could get nearly the same results with a well-authored post-conversion.
If you are someone like me who prefers to watch movies and play games via physical media, and does both a lot, it makes sense to have a separate blu ray player. When I got my PS2 it became my introduction to DVD, and I initially used it as both a games console and a DVD player, but I started to notice that the picture and audio would often go out of sync so I ended up investing in a standalone DVD player that also upscaled to 1080p. Jump forward a few years and I got the PS3 and I gradually moved over to blu ray and as I was not about to go buying a separate blu ray player as they were hella expensive, it stayed as my blu ray player for it's entire life. Come the PS4 it was pretty much the same but I found that the more you used the loading system that Sony have used since the PS3, the quicker it started to go wrong and in the end my blu ray drive gave up. It was around this time that the Pro version came out so felt it was worth an upgrade as all I could play on the old one was digital or streaming. Of course, ridiculously despite it being a "4K" machine it did not come with a 4K drive, so I bit the bullet and invested in a rather expensive 4K blu ray player which was also multi region for standard blu ray. My thought process was that I wanted to be able to get 4K discs if necessary, and after the fuck up of my PS4's blu ray drive I no longer wanted to use my console for watching movies. It was in my opinion the right decision as these front loading slots on Playstations are prone to pack up with too much use, which is why my PS5 blu ray drive stopped accepting discs after only 4 months of usage (I have been playing it a lot due to being off sick for nearly two years). Not sure the quality of the Microsoft mechanisms, but I just wish Sont would go back to the traditional tray that PS2 used to have and pretty much every standalone player or PC has. This is the main reason I feel that playing disc based movies on a console is a bad move. Plus, while my PS5 was on it's holiday being fixed/replaced by Sony, I still had my PS4 for gaming and by standalone 4K blu ray player for movies.
for me, one of the main benefits is just less wear on the Blu-ray drive. I always figured the hours spent watching movies was that many fewer hours i would get playing games. i get that a stand-alone solution that is purpose built is better but for those that dont have the space or want to spend the money, a console is good enough.
A dedicated 4k player of this quality will always be better than a gaming console, but I think it’s way more important to buy an Oled tv before worrying about that. In my opinion the quality difference is much more noticeable switching from an LED to OLED than a gaming console to dedicated player.
Just to make things clear, those in the video who got it right COULD tell, but they're all either graphic designers, trained TV calibrators, editors, or writers at LMG.
day 1 of asking review of Pentium g640t
What about ripping to Plex?
can you please stop making garbage titles that tells me nothing about what the video is?
@@krishansinghnathawat9841 i'm with you pal
I work in the cinema industry and personally I can't see the difference between prores 422 and prores 4444
One big thing that I'd like to add about Dolby Vision... even though cheaper Blu-ray players may support Dolby Vision, a good number of them *do not* support automatic switching. In other words, if you're going to watch a movie, you'd need to check to see if it supports Dolby Vision, and if so, turn it on in the player's settings. Also, you'd want to make sure to turn it off when you're done. That's one of the reasons why I went with the Panasonic model after I sold my Oppo as it was pretty much the only model that supported automatic switching. I think there's a cheaper LG model that supports it now too, but I can't recall off the top of my head.
Oh, and as a quick side note, one reason why I never even considered the Series X as a UHD player is that I was fairly disappointed by the Xbox One S back in the day. (That was before I had Dolby Vision anyway.) The biggest problem with the One S is that the disc noise was just so loud that it was easily audible in low volume situations. Good Blu-ray players are actually built to help isolate that noise.
Was gonna say exactly what you said. My biggest gripe is that the Panasonic with sonos and a LG CX does not work right at all. Something to do with panasonic and LG not communicating properly via the HDMi
Exactly why i took my Sony one back and grabbed the Panasonic ub820, not only the automatic switching but the sound quality is better.
Totally agree with you about the annoying vibration noise of the player when driving a UHD disc. Definitily too loud to enjoy a movie.
That doesn't make sense... (I believe you, just don't understand it)
Why would a player NOT automatically turn on/off Dolby Vision? It knows Dolby Vision support from the Blu-Ray and, I'm hoping, it can get the supported specs of the TV/Receiver from HDMI, right?
@@Aragorn450 I have the Sony X700. It does does exactly what the OP said. I have to manually switch Dolby Vision on and off. Why is it like that? Your guess is better than mines.
One of the best parts about LTT videos is they're like wikipedia deep dives. I've wondered about this for a while but didn't even know where to start, and got way more info than I even expected. Great video.
The channel HDTVTest is more in-depth about 4K Blu-ray players and TV's.
This "problem" was small enough that it definitely didn't warrant an apology. That said, the video is good for extra information on the subject.
Exactly, i feel the same seeing the audiophiles arguing which 1000 dollar headphone has the best audio quality because they bought theirs and theirs is better basically.
haha, it's not really an apology. It's more of an "I told you so lmao"
@@valestivale4711 @Valesti Vale 8:26 Linus says "For movies that support Dolby Vision, we really do need to apologize for our previous oversight and clarify that we would not recommend using the Xbox series as a Blu-Ray player."
1. By definition, this is an apology.
2. It's an unnecessary one as the Dolby Vision standard is way higher than anything the vast majority of equipment can even output, regardless of the player, particularly for the standards of 2016.
@@thetalesofdaneandco I agree and disagree with your statement about equipment. While many 4K TVs support Dolby Vision now, all Dolby Vision-capable TVs are not created equal. That being said, I think that there is a visual difference between DV and HDR10. I can’t say how big that difference is between each TV, but if you’re spending $500 on a console, $1000+ on a TV and you have a $500+ collection of 4K Blu-Rays, it doesn’t hurt to spend on extra $200 on a proper 4K Blu-Ray player. Yes, not every 4K Blu-Ray has DV, but a majority of new releases do. The player will last you at least five years until digital surpasses disc.
@@kurok1tenshi arguing between different 1000$+ headphones is matter of taste, but ALL the people who listened to my 1000$+ headphones then 300$ ones, said that 300$ ones are shit. Also after that almost everyone spent at least an hour just listening to their favorite music on the 1000$+ ones.
Audiophiles are the same. I remember in the 80s, a friend paid a fortune for a CD setup and fridge-sized sub woofer. He'd explain the 'smooth' bell curve compared to the digital bell curve of bits. He'd then play a bit of music and say "Can you hear it?"... to which I would stare at him for a while and say "Ten grand? Really??".
"I can hear the sound of 10 grand burning"
Smooth brained bell end curve for people who don't understand filters. Those bits go through a low pass filter that cuts the nasty jaggies off from sampling. (FWIW, my subwoofer is roughly fridge sized but that's because it's passive and making it big was cheaper than paying for amplifier power and equalization. :D)
@@samiraperi467 found the audiophile, almost the worst kind of -philes imo😭
@@kamalnoor5611 what about pedophiles? Jk
@@mikeycrackson is VINYL even good? Theres no way that thick fucking black muck disc thing is anywhere near a CD or 320kbps.
The UB820 is a great player. It’s a shame a lot of manufacturers have pulled out of making 4K players now. Panasonic, Sony and LG are the only ones that seem to be in it still. Panasonic do the best ones. Some of the players have a show stopping issue of not being able to go to the third layer of a 4K disc without freezing or glitching out.
I stick with Blu-Ray and DVD 😂
Im thinking of getting the UB820-k , but some prefer the cheaper Sony - UBP-X800M2 , not sure why
@@rdyramos You answered your own question there haha. "Cheaper" is the keyword, but it's not better. I've had 3 Sony players in this house and both the UBP-X500 and the X800M2 have frozen multiple times. The X700 however I've not had any issues with. Not sure why. Regardless the UB820EB-K is hands down the best 4k player you can get for the price. I've not had one single 100GBTriple layer disc freeze on me since I've been using it. It's been excellent.
The Sony also plays sacd and dvd-audio.
@@rdyramos I have the Sony, and even though is image is great, I miss a small display indicating track number and play time, for example. My main complaint being the device is too spartan.
All of this really highlights how far ahead of the curve Pioneer was. They implemented 72Hz 3:3 pull down, and 12-bit processing 15 years ago in DVD and BD
You might even say they were Pioneers...
Too bad they are basically a zombie brand now under Sound United (Denon/Marantz)
@@XIIchiron78 I got a Pioneer Elite receiver a while ago and it's still holding out strong.
@@XIIchiron78 As a DJ, i completely agree. Their players and software are the absolute undisputed industry standard despite having released the same product every couple of years. It's absurd. They've got that Apple cult following going for them tho so it's most likely never going to change.
@@XIIchiron78 well you could buy Denon or Marantz
@@XIIchiron78 Um. No. Sound United did not buy Pioneer. Pioneer Japan divested itself of all commercial and professional divisions, starting in 2015. The Home Entertainment Division's audio and video technologies and patents (of which I was part of---in marketing and product planning for PDP, DVD and Blu-ray---for nearly 20 years) were purchased by Onkyo Japan. This is where it gets very convoluted. Pioneer Japan continues to this day to exist as the owner of the Pioneer name and logo, as well as the Elite brand and logo in North America, and retains full rights to approve or deny the use of the name and associated logos for any vendor that licenses them, such as Onkyo Japan (or any other company that purchased, say, Pioneer’s car audio, or optical disc divisions). In 2020, Voxx Int'l purchased Onkyo's Home AV Division, in pretty much the same way that Onkyo Japan purchased Pioneer’s Home Ent. Division in 2015. Voxx placed Onkyo's Home AV Division (now called OTKK) under Klipsch's Premium Audio Company's control, which then had to renegotiate terms with Pioneer Japan to continue to design and manufacture Pioneer and Elite-branded audio products. Onkyo Japan went off on its own way, staying heavily involved in OEMing speakers for other brands, such as TCL. That is where it currently stands.
The editors that you have are amazing, because they really took what you said and adjusted the screen in real life so we could understand what you were saying and what it actually meant
Came here to say this also. Great job LMG boffins.
Hypothesis: Linus was holding up a *pink* water bottle.
Either that or he got me and it was actually golden yellow.
@@handlemonium I guessed pink aswell
@@handlemonium imagine if it was actually white and grey 😂
@@aaronprimus1300 the Technology Connections YT channel did this with a grayscale Rubik's cube. It was hilarious.
Well, I can confirm that there is a marked difference between my Xbox Series X and my Panasonic UB820 when playing 4K discs. I'm using an 85" Samsung 4K Mini-LED display and a Dolby Atmos capable sound system. One big bonus with the UB820 is the HDR Optimiser. That makes a considerable difference all on its own. Generally, I find that the output of the UB820 is better in every respect over the XSX. Of course, they both look good - and to the average consumer, both are pleasing to the eye. In my case, when comparing both players, the UB820 is an obvious step up in quality compared to the XSX, especially when the HDR Optimiser is properly configured for your display and enabled. But, it doesn't stop there. The audio is better too. They both can process and output Dolby Atmos. But, the UB820 does a far better job of it. What's especially noticeable with the XSX is the centre channel dialogue sounding muddled in very noisy scenes. The UB820 seems to have better separation / resolution as regards the centre channel / dialogue. I can actually hear voices clearly over the action. Something that is a struggle with the XSX. Not only that, but in very noisy films - like Top Gun Maverick, when it gets really loud - there's a kind of 'shrill' with some scenes that is uncomfortable to listen to. On the UB820 there is none of that uncomfortable shrill and it can be played at the same loud volumes. So, in my case then - yes, there is a considerable difference in quality between the two devices. The UB820 is definitely the player to use if I want the best out of my 4K collection.
For me the thing that has me investing in a dedicated player is that the Xbox absolutely sucks at handling DVDs. It was impressively bad with my Batman the Animated Series DVD.
We need more home theater, blue ray, 4k, Imax, Dolby Vision/Audio content from you. Do the whole thing. There's a lot of confusion out there.
There's a lot of confusion because in this field manufacturers want a lot of confusion. I work in pro AV and when it comes to HDMI functions or end user codecs i get really confused really fast, it's all marketing nomenclature and brands that don't support each other for reasons
I get the impression from WAN Show that LTT Labs is gonna focus on this stuff among other things
@@0741921 That depends on whether it's shit you won't notice. If you're not trained to notice the difference, you won't. Professional colorists _are_ going to notice a difference, and my condolences for anyone who is one. Once you learn how to do color grading right, nothing you see on a cheap monitor will ever look right again.
At the end of the day, it's all about a person's priorities. Put an audiophile and a musician in the same room and have them listen to two different audio setups. The audiophile is gonna claim that the second set of speakers has more "warmth" and the musician is gonna notice that the pianist totally fucked up near the end of the song. Then you bring an audio technician in and he's gonna be bitching about how none of the speakers have a flat response, nothing is calibrated correctly, the room treatment is garbage, and the subwoofer is set too damn high. "Why would you spend $20k on a sound system and not use any bass traps? It sounds like there's a hippo farting in here."
@@0741921 when your brand new 4k tv can be FPS limited by a cable, it's pretty good to know some stuff
"They couldn't tell"
"They could tell"
Those cracked me up
Lolz
th-cam.com/video/o6twGDSaPN0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/o6twGDSaPN0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/o6twGDSaPN0/w-d-xo.html
I don't know why but it left me cracking up too
🎊 🥳 🎉
One added feature of a standalone Panasonic is the dual hdmi outs, allowing hdr video to be passed to a display, and uncompressed audio to be sent to older avrs. That feature alone sold it for me.
interesting, except my Xbox One X is plugged into an AVR, and yet I still get HDR on the TV...
@@GamezGuru1 You may get some form of hdr, but you aren't getting dolbyvision.
@@FireRisinWithin I know I'm not getting Dolby Vision, cos the Xbox one X does not support it on 4k blurays.
Yeah and this comment sold me on the player. Thanks so much
@@GamezGuru1 Your AVR may support DV/HDR passthrough to your tv, but, lot of older AVRs (including mine) do not. My TV does support HDR (like a lot of people) but doesn't support earc and my AVR doesn't support HDR passthrough. Therefore, the only way to enjoy both HDR and lossless audio such as DTS-HD/X and Dolby-TrueHD/Atmos is with something like a blueray player with dual outputs. You're just lucky your specific AVR is new enough... But for a lot of people, their AVR is perfectly good/brilliant but lacks 4k or HDR passthrough (or both). A blueray player adds this functionality and gives you a better technical media experience and even though linus spent $500, they can also be had for $250 used which makes a lot of sense.
Thank you Linus. The UB820 serves me well but I am a pretty big cinephile. It's also worth noting that there are quite a few different "profiles" or flavors of DolbyVision. The Bluray players are the devices capable of showing you a disc that was encoded with the FEL aka "full enhancement layer". It's more than just tone mapping in that case.
Interesting! So I've got an LG CX and a host of 4K Blu-Rays, and I've been using a PS5 for playback. What would you recommend to someone like me who wants to get true Dolby Vision? Or should I just pocket the money until I inevitably get a QD-OLED down the line...
@Mozart's Ghost I love the username.
How do movies from iTunes compare to their bluray counterparts?
@@O1OO1O1 It depends enormously on the title. But as a general rule of thumb, anything shot on film will see an improvement on disc, because film grain is the first casualty of lowering the bitrate of the compression algorithm (discs have much more space than streams, particularly when it comes to occasional spikes) while modern films shot digitally (many of which go through a 2k Digital Intermediate anyway) are near-identical in most circumstances.
@@IainLambert are there any good resources for this stuff? I've been amazed at how, in 2022,we can't just go out and buy something and expect it to be good, so I'd like to learn the basics so I can make informed purchases and not waste money buying the same content twice.
"You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct" good to see Linus has an inner bureaucrat
Politics in a fucking tech video's comments 😴
Edit: nvm it's apparently a joke xP
I love a good Futurama reference, if that's what he was referencing even 😂
Futurama references everyday
I love Futurama references.
@@ZenTunE- Glad you caught yourself slipping lmao
Is it just me or is the videography/editing really really good in this episode? Like the switch between the content and the sponsor block is very evident in quality. I didn't notice this previously on my phone.
Considering the content, I bet they felt like they needed to be on their A game.
I think its important for a youtuber like linus to clarify how video data is managed, since his whole platform revolves around that(and audio ofc). I can imagine many tech geeks watching this video from the comment section, waiting to make a correction
4k garbage 4k sucks!!!!!!!!!!
It's you
Love the effort that went onto the effects for this video. It really helped bring what Linus was describing to life.
Hey so since we're doing followups to old videos, it wold be cool to see a revisiting to the "multi user, 1 CPU" concept. With the explosion in core counts in the last few years and things like GPU splitting, it would be really interesting to see what could be done in a single system now.
That would be pretty cool. I think they could also look at ways of doing it that don't involve virtual machines, since there are applications like nucleus coop that let you run multiple instances of the same game on one computer and connect them via LAN. This would obivously only work for gaming (and only supported games at that) but it could be a good way for people to have a lan party/couch coop experience with only one pc.
They have done a video on gpu splitting
th-cam.com/video/Bc3LGVi5Sio/w-d-xo.html
Craft computer has done video on it
pretty easy and powerful. wouldnt make for such an interesting video nowadays.
GPU splitting realy isnt a thing yet except on very select things like windows but why would anyone want to use windows for their hypervisor OS NVIDIA and AMD need to start offering that for all OSes but they wont because its money since you need to pick up quadro
I have a Panasonic ub820 and haven’t regretted it for over a year now. Between Dolby vision support, chroma upsampling, and other features not mentioned here like dvd/1080p Blu Ray upscaling, hdr tone mapping for a 1000nit cap, and very flexible audio options, it’s been really nice to have a dedicated player. I’d say that if you primarily watch movies on disc it’s worth getting one.
Same here, best Investment with my LG Oled c1 i had the smaller panasonic before. And its day and night
Im thinking of getting the UB820-k , but some prefer the cheaper Sony - UBP-X800M2 , not sure why
Totally agree, I remember buying a Pioneer BDP LX52 back in the day and hooked up to my Panasonic TV the picture was outstanding compared to the PS3 or PS4
I can imagine buying a HIGHEND Blu Ray player today would show the same difference, plus the extra features, well worth the expense.
Very silly and specific question, but do you know if your player has position memory for more than one disc. I watch many shows on blu ray and switching from one disc to another without losing the memory of where I left off at is the one reason I still use the PS3. None of the current console can memorize the position of more than one disc, and I have a LG and Sony region free player, neither of which can memorize more than one disc.
@@habit0422 yeah the UB820 has that! It remembered my position in die hard from when I watched it last Christmas lol.
Honestly, the water bottle at 4 minutes looks nice, I would really love an LTT water bottle design, but in like a really cool matte or concrete Gray. I haven't bought one yet, but I would legitimately buy that one.
A matte black and primer gray water bottle would be sick
Titanium gray is my favorite
What do you mean grey? The shown bottle was clearly pink.
@@moos5221 it was pink with square Polk a dots...ha ha lol 🤣
almost like a matte nardo tone
Speaking of HDR... what happened to LTT doing a lot more HDR content after that one HDR video like 18 months ago or whatever it was?
They probably forgot 💀
They just don't have the time to properly master HDR videos on a daily release schedule.
It prob added a bunch of time to the production for mastering the HDR. With HDR not really having that huge of adoption yet, I believe they just decided it wasn't worth the extra time with most of their viewers watching it on their computers or phones and not their home theater.
@@jakekiedaisch2279 Fair point, but I didn't mean *everything* being HDR. For example, a video that contains portions on HDR vs non-HDR would be a perfect candidate.
I forget the details but they spoke about this in a WAN show or something a while ago. Essentially youtube doesn't handle HDR video well and it effected the other quality options or something.
I wanted to let you guys know, this is why I really love LTT. You guys take a fairly complicated technical problem (or set of problems) and dissect them into easy to understand smaller problems. Does it teach me everything I want to know? No, but now I know what sorts of questions I should be asking, and how to look for more information. Nice job as always.
Exactly this. This video was fantastic among others
Thanks guys
i've been waiting for more blu-ray content from you guys for years!!! thank you!
agreed. moar!
@@branscombe_ agreed!
Need Netflix DVD subscription to get it
i bought this 4k blu ray player last month for 350€ .Upscaling 1080p to 4k is really incredible. i don't have good tv i'm waiting the end of this year for good price but i can tell upscaling is amazing and dts hd master audio decode is very good this is a new quality sound for me
Have an xbox one x, bought a 4k blu-ray player purely for Dolby vision/atmos, looks amazing, but what blew me away was how good the sound quality is, its insane how high-quality is it. Audio is definitely a huge upgrade over streaming services.
This is the way.
I use Xbox x for discs with a 3.1.2 setup. I agree- the sound is amazing and isn't muffled. I wish there was a reliable disk rental service. I tried a couple and it took at least a week to get the discs.
I have also understood that Panasonic players are pretty great at HDR tonemapping, useful for less capable HDR TVs or also for OLEDs to some degree.
This is very correct, and it’s also useful for projectors. I’ve got the step down model from the one covered in the video and for HDR10 content it does great with lesser and greater displays.
I'm personally using the Sony UBP X800 M2 for my 4K UHD discs, and have an Epson 5050UB at 135" and it looks absolutely incredible, but when you want to experience the best SOUND, there's no comparison. Streaming simply can't hang.
Im thinking of getting the Pioneer UB820-k , but some prefer the cheaper Sony - UBP-X800M2 , not sure why. I keep "hearing that the X800M2" has better sound
@@rdyramos I have the Sony UPB X800 M2. I prefer the Sony because it also plays SACD and DVD Audio. And it's cheaper...
As a Panasonic 820 owner and a Series X owner there is just something nice about a normal DVD/Blu-Ray player. Oh and the remote is a big thing for me the basic normal remote with the Panasonic is nice to have. Also the Panasonic can be had for less than $500 i paid $399 for mine when Best Buy had them on sale.
You get bonus points for the examples on this one. Nice work.
One of the reasons I have a Panasonic 4K Blu-ray player is that it lets you adjust the position of the subtitles. This is very important for since I have a cinemascope (extra-wide) screen for my projector, so if the subtitles are in the black area, they would be off my screen.
That's pretty nice. The Panasonic one they used in this video seems great, but also relatively expensive and I'm not sure if it fits. Any good alternatives these days that are potentially cheaper to get the most out of my TV and high-end soundbar (Samsung HW-Q990B)?
Also some of the mid/high end Panasonics have FANTASTIC 1080p upscaling to 4K thats better than most TVs and this includes watching 1080p Netflix and other streaming content using the blu ray player's own apps.
????
@@thenonexistingheroLG UBKM9 $170 at Wallmart
Can you adjust the font aize of the subtitles too
Linus looking at optical media in 2022?!?! My dream is still alive
This video was fun. The main reason to go with the 4K Panasonic Blu-ray player is for the superior audio experience you get with the 4K physical disk over the 4K digital streaming services. One of my favorite movies is the first Top Gun 4K Blu-ray. It’s expanded Dolby Atmos surround is amazing. Apollo 13 in DTS X is also great. The Hunt for Red October is also fun .My bedroom can only handle a 5.1 surround system but it still is a fun to hear. Hopefully your team will do a follow up to this video and compare 4K streaming audio to the 4K Blu-ray. You will be pleasantly surprised on the difference in quality from the disk to streaming formats. I have the lg 65 c2 oled tv. Once I got that I had to upgrade my receiver to Dolby vision and Atmos along with the Panasonic 4K Blu-ray you mentioned. Thank you for your great content.
I have a pretty nice Sony TV and an entry level Sony 4k player. The difference between a 4K disc and streaming is so obvious to me. For dark scenes especially, streaming sucks.
I think his ultimate point is 4K Blu-ray is noticeably better than either regular Blu-ray or 4K streaming, but if you're a gamer & not that heavily into movies Xbox Series consoles are good enough. I'm not really a gamer & am more into movies; the features I wanted basically steered me to the UB820, but Xbox gamers like LTT may not want to spend that much extra cash on incremental improvements over their console.
It is TV or AVR thay renders Atmos. Not blu-ray player. It just passes it.
@@lolerie I believe @Gilbert King's point was that the physical disc generally provides superior audio to streaming services.
Not sure what brand of meth your smoking to think a bluray disc plays high quality audio then a PC. A PC can steam pure flac uncompressed audio without a bit rate cap tf you talking this whole video is an ad for Panasonic. Why you think bluray players cost 500 now they are absolutely worthless when your cellphone does a better job
Ub9000 owner here, and I have to say 3 years in its worth it. I run it through a Sony 4k projector onto a 132" screen (soon to be 150") and the added nuanced quality really shows up on such a large screen. Would recommend if youre into home theater
6:06 explains quite good why it is so hard to get two screens that have an identical image output for dual-head screen which is far more annoying than this IMHO.
I got myself an i1 Display Pro second hand off ebay a lot cheaper than it would be new. I use this with the free DisplayCal application and assuming you're not trying to calibrate a wide gamut display and a normal one you can get pretty much almost exact results. Other thing to keep in mind is if you want proper uniformity you want to try and match the displays on brightness too. It can do wonders with crappy blue-cast laptop screens too! I don't work with colour professionally but this calibrator has made me very happy :)
Which is kinda the point of the video
You can calibrate them yourself. You don't get a professional calibration but a good enough one that will make both displays look "identical". It only costs you around $200 for the hard- and software.
This is a fantastic video that covers every odd little issue I have with my series X as a 4k player. I have the Panasonic now and I'm happy with the performance. I don't know if it's actually worth the $500, but there aren't many other options that do what it does, as well as it does. It also has a feature that allows it to calibrate levels for projectors, which is another nice touch.
The other really big thing is disc compatibility and readability. Also using the xbox as the player is not as easy / friendly. Where putting a disc in and using the dvd remote is much easier.
My series X has many disc read errors and I have to reboot over and over again
Two reasons I'm planning to buy a Panasonic UB820 (with a region-unlock modification):
1. HDR optimizer. It's a killer feature that lets you optimize the HDR playback for your display. So if you have an OLED like I do, you can set it to optimize the output for your not-quite-so-bright display. Higher-end TVs have similar features, but to my knowledge, none of them are as good as the UB820's optimizer, particularly for 4K Blu-rays.
2. Upscaling. When it comes to upscaling Blu-rays and DVDs to 4K, Panasonic's machines appear to be the cream of the crop. How do they compare to upscaling in Sony's flagship TVs? I'm not entirely sure. But until I can try one for myself, the UB820 will do fine.
I have an LG UBK90, which I got for a great discount, because it was the cheapest player I could find at the time that supported automatic Dolby Vision switching. Cheaper 4K Blu-ray players, and most of Sony's from what I can tell, require you to manually enable and disable Dolby Vision, forcing you to verify that your discs have it before you change the setting. Unfortunately, the UBK90 has issues when changing layers on triple-layer 4K discs; when the layer change happens, the video can often freeze up like a scratched DVD. That's another reason I'm looking to switch to the Panasonic.
Zidoo has all those features and you don't have to fudge around with disks, rip your collection once and you're done
Got 0 issues with ubk90 since release.
I remember when talking about this back in the days, I could not tell the difference between the Xbox player and a stand alone BR player but everybody had superman eyes and extra $500 to spend. On the other hand I have done HDR and DV comparisons and the difference is very minimum to my eyes, at least not enough to pay extra money for a TV that supports it.
And there lies the elephant in the room, it depends how sensitive your eyes are. I'm one of those who finds audio and video differences very obvious. Plus it also depends exactly what you watched it on, as I was going for OLED anyway it wasn't "extra money" to get Dolby Vision.
Dolby Vision on an OLED is a game changer.
@@alexatkin Yes I have the C1 Oled and Hisense U8G and both have DV, only Samsung doesn't support it but still looks great, especially the new QD-OLED.
@@edwarddore7617 it is a game changer on OLED because OLEDs have weak brightness performance and therefore need the help of DV. DV isn’t needed on powerful nit TVs like high end LCD-LED and the new next generation of OLED: QD-OLED from Samsung.
'Back in the Day' the Xbox WAS better... The current Series X will be soon with updates
I bought my Sony X-800 shortly after it was introduced. I purchased it because multiple reviewers said it was second only to Oppo's 4k Blu-ray player at deinterlacing and upscaling DVD and Blu-ray discs. (I'm sad that Oppo bailed out of high end players. I'll bet a modern Oppo player would be amazing.) My disc based collection consists of about 70% DVDs, 25% Blu-rays and 5% 4k Blu-rays. With the help of friends, I've compared the X800's performance at deinterlacing and upscaling done by over half a dozen 4K and standard Blu Ray players, deinterlacing and upscaling done internally by multiple 4k TVs and de-interlacing and upscaling by three different home computers. So far, the X800 hasn't been bested - period. In some cases the X800 does a noticeably better deinterlace-upscale than does the competition; in other cases it's hard to tell. None of my friends are gamers, so, no comparisons with gaming consoles.
I'm sure deinterlacing and upscaling hardware has improved since my X-800 purchase. I'm sure my player has been bested by multiple late generation players. That's irrelevant to my point. Performance with 4k source material is only one performance parameter of a high end player. Top tier handling of non-4K material is, and likely will continue to be, my number one priority when it comes to spinning disk players because, as you pointed out, 4K material looks great regardless of the player. That isn't true for lower resolution and lower quality source discs.
@@eternalbeing3339
I don't think the X-800 had any competition at its price 4.5 years ago. I'm glad to know that there are better players out there now, abet, in the case of the DP-UB820K, at twice the price I paid for my Sony. I do appreciate the update.
thanks nerd
I bought a Panasonic U820 a couple years ago, but ended up using my consoles for 4K Blu-rays and put the U820 in the living room with a basic 4K TV. Now that I just upgraded to a 4K OLED, I told my wife that I will be taking back the U820 for movies :)
And did you? :D
@@RichyRich2607 Sure did! Since the living room is baby proof and has toys everywhere including the TV stand, she actually said it was good idea and wanted me to take the rest of my stuff (classic mini consoles and Switch dock) out of the TV stand lol.
So.. I feel like this needs to be tested, since, to my recollection, Sony was credited with creating the Blu-Ray technology in the first place, What about a PS5 vs a standalone 4k UHD Blu-Ray player
I’d like to know as well. One of the reasons I never got a dedicated UHD player was that I wanted to get a PS5 since it was announced and figured it’d do a good job.
The PS5 uses a 12 bit YCBCR444 color space which makes the image practically identical to the dedicated Panasonic player in the video, as opposed to Xbox's cheaper 10 bit implementation
@@Ignacio.Romero okay… but I want them to test it… which was the point of my comment….
@@Genku The lack of Dolby Vision is a big no, but then they only just started supporting it on their TVs. Its weird how Sony have let themselves fall behind on these things for so long when they were pioneers and their surround sound receivers are excellent, supporting Dolby Vision just fine.
Sony made Blu-Ray, but they did not make the Dolby Vision Standard (Dolby did)
If the Sony wanted to advertise the PS5 as Vision compliant, they need to get their Tech certified with Dolby.
They obviously don't think the AV game is worth the time/money
Great topic for a video. As someone with both an Xbox and PS5 for whom the 4K disc playback was a big selling point, I think I want to get a dedicated player at this point. It’s a shame that it’s such an afterthought in this latest generation. I miss the days when a console could be a reference quality movie player. My 60GB fat launch model PS3 wasn’t just my primary blu ray player for over a decade - it was my ONLY blu ray player. We had it so simple then!
I'm thinking the same thing. My PS5 is struggling with UHD discs. I've searched the Internet for a solution and have come up empty. I partially bought the PS5 to play UHD discs. I'm a sucker!!
Late to this party but I was under the impression that PS5 UHD were superior to Xbox UHD playback? I read somewhere that PS5 supports 10bit colour output but Xbox supports only 8.
I went and bought the ub820 on sale shortly after this came out from using an xbox as well. Such a difference! I had been kneecapping my TV's capabilities by not supplying it with DV apart from streaming. Made me look at my audio 5.1 set up as well and was able to reconfigure and repurpose/swap out a few things on the cheap for an entry level but competent 5.2.2 system. really took it to the next level. This really does improve image quality to where I can tell a difference with the proper media. Fantastic upscaling for standard blu ray and dvd, maybe even better than my old integra 8.9 with it's HQV Reon VX processing.
You just think it looks better. It doesn’t.
@@oldskool4572 dolby vision looks better than hdr10 don't be silly.
Strepaming is crap..you morons and streaming...you proved it doesnt matter cause you dont even really use your tv or blu ray player
Which one will upscale my laserdiscs?
Nice
Or vhs
im using a laserdisc as a mouse mat. taxi driver £4 not bad i thought it was worth way more... it was not its worth £3 . so a mouse mat it became.
And how do they compete to the MUSE LD?
My video cd’s need upscaled as well!
I love my Blu-rays, but I'm investing in a home server for my remuxes because it's getting ridiculously troublesome to have the right hardware and even some studios not releasing Dolby Vision Blu-ray, while on the "alternative" websites you see people putting together hybrid releases of the HDR Blu-ray with incredible bitrate with the Dolby Vision extracted from streaming services. It's madness.
This is why I have a dedicated PLEX server for my theatre. It's sad that I have to resort to "alternative" websites because they refuse to make Blu-ray the best it can be, but...it's also a dying medium.
quais seriam esses sites alternativos ?? um amigo mandou perguntar kkkk
What streaming sites are they getting the original from?
@@O1OO1O1 every and any streaming site
Be prepared to spend a fair bit of cash on an nvidia Shield TV Pro. I've tried using the integrated Plex app for LG TVs, but it sucks.
I have a Panasonic DP-UB9000 top-tier player for my home theater room, and the picture and sound are phenomenal
Ok and if you wanted this video. The Xbox would have phenomenal picture and sound too
Honestly the only concerning thing to me is frameskipping, not to say the other issues are invalid but personally I wouldn't mind
Is one of both known for doing that?
I'm not even sure what he meant by that. I'd like to see some references or evidence of what he's describing. I briefly searched around and didn't find anything obvious.
The Series X supports 24p playback and as long as your display supports 24p or some kind of pulldown or you have a refresh rate high enough to multiply evenly from 24p I'm not sure I understand how the Xbox would "drop frames". It's true that 24p playback on 4K display output was broken at some point but that was fixed a while back.
@@Gurben92 he said maybe one picture per minute? so i think you can ignore it. that would be 1 picture every 1440 pictures. that is kind of nothing, i would say.
@@lookitskazzy I think he means that with (older) NTSC video content, the refresh rate isn't actually 60Hz flat, but it's something like 59.97Hz. Even though that is some sort of leftover relic of the analog times, with the purpose being to prevent any issues with modulation or something, a lot of video content, especially on DVDs, still use that. And a lot of TVs should still properly understand this situation.
But when you force that 59.97Hz video into 60Hz output, a single frame will be dropped at some point just to keep the video timing correct.
With 24p content this shouldn't be an issue, though.
I believe he is referring to judder.
@10:03
Ah, I see Linus is a fan of my boy Vincent! His tech reviews on panel displays are outstanding; but I usually stay for his one-liners!
Yeah, that Chinese dude realty knows his shit. I watched a lot of his videos when I was shopping for my first lg oled
Fun/annoying fact: while they used proprietary audio for their games, sony does support dolby atmos when watching movies if you changed the output fro pcm to dolby in the settings. I have a Stand alone sony player that does have the manual switching thing, but most of my movies are 4k BR with DV
As someone who isn't noise sensitive and who never considered a Blu-Ray or DVD Driver after getting a PS3 ever again and so far unly having used two 32inch 768p and 1080p TV's, I know why people would complain about it but it doesn't make serious sense.
Back in 2017-2019 my family was broke. My mother leaved the household thogheter with me and my sister. We then only had my PS3, PS4 and our non-Smart-TV 720p.
Movies, both our old DVD's and newer Blu-Rays, and exspacially the ability to watch crisper and better Streaming was worth gold to us.
If you can Support buing a 1000$ or more 4k ultra 50inch+ TV, you sure can afford the extra money for a dedicated Blu-Ray Player.
The Consoles are meant for people like me and my family back then who can't spare much more and need an AIO solution. No 200€ Smart TV, no 4K HDR or anything like that. No extra sound boxes. Just the bare minimum. And if you approach consoles with Disk Drives that way, damn sure they are delicate hardware you'd want to snack up.
Also keep in mind that the Panasonic player also has an option to select your TV format i.e. OLED, LCD, LED etc. I also get screen/image retention on my C9 OLED. Many people say it's because of the green the use booting the console up and also the U.I. but I have also seen it in games like Sunset Overdrive and ReCore.
Image retention is a result of a lack of cooling of the display panel. Which is also the reason I recently bought a G2 instead of a C2 to replace my B8.
In online comparisons you could clearly see the G2 getting deep(er) blacks in areas of bright highlights where the C2 remained more grey ish causing a decrease in contrast on the C2. You can see this in detail of the clouds but also in shadows of brighter greenery like trees, bushes, and gras.
Ultimately, it all depends. Are you building home theater setup. Or just nice tv setup. For home theater, 100% go for dedicated player.
Something you neglected to consider is the HDR tone mapping the UB820 offers. It's a game changer, and transforms regular HDR10 content into something closer to Dolby Vision.
Why not leave tone mapping for the TV to handle?
@@sebaslive3476 If you're in the US or Canada you can't buy Panasonic TV's, which have the best picture quality. So getting the player to tonemap and present to your TV (with your TV's tonemapping disabled) will do a better job than the TVs built in processing, unless perhaps it's a bleeding edge Sony model. UB820 also offers a tonemap option where it will tonemap to a specified peak luminance in a more graceful manner than having the TV do this or simply hardclipping at your displays peak luminance.
@@Kaptime I am looking for a TV for the master bedroom, 55" or smaller, I am in the states any good choices, thanks in advance.
@@Moondoggy1941 Watch some HDTVTest reviews of TV's (and Digital Trends) then use RTings to shoot out your choices on price/metrics. You should consider your use case, if you value Movies/TV and picture accuracy then OLEDs + (Sony > LG > all others). For Gaming: Sony + LG + Samsung, if you predominantly game you will be fine still going with an OLED. For work (spreadsheets/word/webpages) OLEDs are not going to cut it as they will dim to prevent damage to the pixels + the burn in risk. Burn-in is definitely not an issue for regular content and gaming but for work OLEDs are not appropriate. Panasonic is the No.1 for video enthusiasts but is region-locked and it's neck-and-neck between them and Sony anyway.
If I could pick any TV right now it would be the LG G3 or the upcoming Sony A95L. However getting last years flagships on clearance or dropping down a SKU may be wiser as LG's C lineup normally offer better value for 8/10 the same quality as the 'G' line. You may be able to pickup a C2 or Sony A90J for much less which are still amazing TVs, but if you have the money I'd absolutely go for the G3 or A95L as they feature a new generation MLA OLED panel that provides nearly double the peak brightness which really makes an impact in bright HDR games + movies. LED/LCD based TV's such as the Samsung QLEDS or LG miniLED won't track the EOTF properly (which means they display content at brightness levels the creator didn't intend) but are great for gaming/work without risk of burn-in, however picture quality is not comparable to what modern OLEDs can achieve and you may get blooming. For what it's worth, my gaming TV is a QN90A, it doesn't support Dolby Vision, it doesn't track the EOTF properly, but it still kicks ass for gaming so really it's about your use case.
This is such a great feature. Specially useful on an OLED
The Sony X700 is a great stand alone player, at just around $200, and it does support SACD. You just have to manually switch Vision.
One thing I really love about the Xbox is that, compared to my other media devices (Roku and Fire TV), it has a TON of information about the HDMI connection.
I'm sorry to say that but Rocky/FireTV and most of the other media players are pretty shit compared to Nvidia Shield TV Pro 😉
You will like the options there, trust me.
i really like about my xbox compared to my blu-ray player and my firebox, that it is a gaming console that i can play videogames on.
The Xbox is shit at playing 4K discs and Microshite does nothing about it. Don't advertise something you can't do properly. End of.
Do. More. Of. These. Videos. You guys have far and away the best TV content on YT.
I've been using my Xbox One S as a Blu-Ray player and honestly loving it. I was impressed it could do DTS etc. With a bit of menu messing around.
That being said don't have a TV that can do HDR so... Lol
Also as an engineer/colourist in film the description of RGB vs ycbcr and 444 vs 422 etc was good :)
I bought a standalone 4k UHD player for this reason since I'm more of a cinema buff than a gamer. Thanks for explaining.
Sony blu ray players any good?
@@mikeytaylor1111 yes, i like how it works seamlessly with my Sony tv. I can use the tv remote to control my Sony 4k UHD player. However, i have to manually change the setting for Dolby vision for each disk. Apparently the Panasonic does it automatically.
@@Jdshald I really enjoy films and the home theater experience but occasionally play some video games as well. So I’ve always used an Xbox for the last 15 years or so for playing dvds and blu ray. Up until recently I learned that a dedicated player might actually be a better choice for watching movies. So I think I will finally get one. But I’m a little late to the party as everything is going digital. Thanks!
Finally, an explanation for those who are configuring their new oled screens and didnt understand crap about RGB, YCbCR... Thanks Linus, excellent video.
I'd like to see you guys comment on the HDR optimizer feature of the UB 820.
It applies dynamic tone mapping after you select the peak luminance of your TV in the settings of the player.
So if you have an OLED TV, it will tone map to like a peak brightness of 800.
Even if the content was mastered to 4,000
I'd also love for those high-end Bluray players to have an even more granular setup, like, an advanced mode where you can actually chose the peak brightness of your screen so that the dynamic tone mapping is even more precise
@@FlipperWolf the more expensive ones give you three or four brackets of peak brightness ranges to pick from. The 820 only has two I think, but the 9000 has one that's really low for projectors, a crappy tv option that only goes up to something less than 1000 nits, a regular nice TV option that's around 1000, and a really nice option for reference monitors.
@@73rmin8r ub820 has the same options as the 900. It’s the ub420 or whatever that has less options. The options here are 1500 bits for high end LCD, 1000 nits for OLED or standard LCD, and 500 nits for projector.
@@dontpokethebear3893 Looked it up, the ub9000 has 1 setting for OLED, 2 settings for projectors, and 3 settings for LCD TVs.
th-cam.com/video/oTw_Toh0PzA/w-d-xo.html
I think you're probably right about the 820's settings
@@73rmin8r Yes, I have the UB9000 so I know ahah, but I still want mooooore :p
"My setup is so much more color accurate than yours"
Yes, it cost $3,000, as opposed to my $500, and yet I still enjoy the movie exactly the same amount...
Never understood the color-accuracy flex, as long as it's not wildly out, you need a Dulux color chart to tell the difference anyway.
colour yeah but i can understand wanting the 24hz mode
unless you want to do color ref, small inaccuracies don't matter to most people
I totally agree. I‘d rather invest the 2,500$ that are left over in a really good sound system.
I'd rather invest $2500 in buying a house.🤭
I think there's a small subset of people that don't actually enjoy better color and audio and all that.
They enjoy the feeling of knowing that their stuff is better than what others have. They just want to know that they're better. Just a small bit of elitism.
Another Dolby Vision tip, if you're running a newer 4K Sony tv that supports it you need to go into the external input settings and make sure the HDMI receiving the Dolby Vision signal has Enhanced HDMI mode enabled, they're set to standard by default and will handle 4K resolution at Standard but not Dolby Vision unless set to Enhanced (Dolby Vision) HDMI mode.
But we won’t be a fool after hearing this message from your sponsor!
Lol
@DJ bot
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@@ehsanshahzad4971 this guy asks things
Pretty sure there's a toggle on Xbox for 24FPS support.
"they couldn't tell"
this person needs a raise
I chuckled very hearty
I LOVE my UB820. 4k Blu Rays are a great hobby and the qualify is unreal. It can be really fun to watch an old movie remastered in 4k. They look like they were made yesterday.
Name one old movie you can get on 4k blu Ray that is noticeably better than ordinary 1080p blu Ray. Just curious ill get both see if I can tell.
@@jondonnelly3 Jaws, A Few Good Men, Die Hard, Predator, Alien, Blade Runner, Jumanji, LOTR Trilogy, Scarface, Casino...
Thank you for mentioning Super Audio CD playback, even if it was just in passing! I'm more of an audio guy than I am a visual person and would probably have a difficult time telling one 4K Blu-Ray player from another. But sound is more nuanced for me. I have a Super Audio CD in my music collection and I love to play it on my cheap little Sony BDP-S5100. I have found that Sony players often have SACD built in, which saves me having to purchase a very expensive standalone SACD player.
Don’t they sound the same as 16/44.1?
@@msd5808 SACDs use Direct Stream Digital for their encoding rather than PCM, which they claim produces greater data density. To my ears, they do sound similar to regular CDs, except for one thing: SACD supports four distinct channels where Redbook CDs only support two. The one SACD that I own is a demo recording of some drum and bugle corps and I play it on my 5.1 system. I can very clearly hear individual instruments coming from all around me.
@@RMTCTL Interesting thanks. Forgot about the extra channels feature.
I got the Samsung k8500 free with my tv then I upgraded to the Panasonic 820 which I’ve had over 3yrs now since launch and I spotted the difference between the players straight away. I’m just a average joe with a love of films and I can clearly see the differences
Very informative! You explained things better than many others have. Thanks.
Nvidia Shield (2019) is my personal choice. With Kodi (Maven version) it does DV with 4K remux files.
Lol, you're streaming bro, u ain't getting 4k or hdr lol
@@nickkk420 if he ripped the media or got it elsewhere, you get better quality than streaming, for sure. i get both 4k with DV and atmos no problem
@@nickkk420 He's likely speaking using lossless 4K rips from blu-rays
@@jameskurian6914 so like 80gb files?? Lol naaa I'm good
@@nickkk420Have you never heard of real debrid bro?
The straight faced, "they couldn't tell," and, "they could tell" was brilliant 🤣
I ended up getting my 4k BluRay player (with remote) from a thrift store for $25.
It's a Samsung UBD-K8500. Great little player.
Nice!
DUDE that's beyond a steal. on ebay used they still go for close to 200usd.
Bruh, that's a steal, nice.
@@matthewjuarbe5826 You'd be surprised at how much BluRay hardware gets donated out here (Denver). I always assumed it was because of the prevalence of streaming services.
I've also snagged an external USB 3.0 Pioneer BluRay burner ($5), external USB 2.0 LG BluRay player ($5), and internal LG BluRay burner (NIB, $15). I'd love to get my hands on an internal 4k player drive.
Otherwise the oldest working optical drive I own is a BluRay/HD DVD internal combo player from Hitachi/LG, I fished it out of a Gateway I found in a dumpster with bad caps on the motherboard.
I do have an original Xbox One that I rebuilt for free out of a broken unit also pulled from a dumpster and a unit given to me with a ripped-off HDMI port. However, I hardly use it now that I've built an ITX system about the same size as a One X.
Turns out a 9th Gen i7 and 980Ti offer more than enough power to upstage an original Xbox One.
I use the LG for the ITX, the Pioneer for the main ATX, then the matching LG internal drives occupy the NAS box (one burner, one player), and the sampler box has the Hitachi alongside the I/O front panel for an X-Fi card.
Both NAS box and sampler box cases were picked up used and had hideous beige cd rom and rewritable drives installed (they're from 2001), so rather than spend extra money on sourcing hard to find Lian Li aluminum covers, I just filled the holes with newer BluRay drives I had on hand.
Black bezels look so much cleaner with aluminum than beige.
Plouffe’s “They could tell!” And “They could not tell!” were hilarious!
It seems to me that they could tell. At least, 4 out of the 7 people could, and that's a majority of the people.
@@anakinlowground5515 in a 50:50 question, 50% failing the test is equal to not being able to tell the difference.
@@anakinlowground5515 Not only that, it takes training sometimes to tell a difference. Like people who aren't used to a 144hz monitor or 240 hz one will say there isn't a difference. But then if they have been on a 144 for a long time and try to go back, it will feel incredible painful. I can of course point to ways they could tell a faster refresh rate like when scrolling text or moving a mouse fast, but for the tech illiterate, they won't notice until they get used to the better refresh rates, but once they have, they will have a hard time going back. It is the same with lots of things. Until you know the difference, you won't care, but once you do, you will.
@@gruanger Huh, y'know, you have a point there. my laptop has a 144 Hz monitor, and I occasionally just switch it is 60 Hz, and yeah, there is quite a noticeable difference
You know the people complaining would be the hardcore aficionados that make up a small subset of your overall viewer base, but you still addressed it. That’s actually pretty cool
The differences between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 are not as subtle as you're are stating them as being. In fact, the better quality of TV you use to view the differences between the two signals on, the more perceptible those differences are.
The thing is that you need to actually have 4:4:4 input signals. For gaming or other cases where a computer is directly connected, sure you get 4:4:4. For movies, TV shows, or even camera footage, you can be happy if you actually get 4:2:2. Most will be 4:2:0.
@@twoknife that's what I was thinking after linus said those blu ray movies are mastered in 4:2:2 (5:00)
knowing that the discussion is pretty much pointless (like discussing and comparing 4K upscaling capabilities of different hardware)
yeah scenes in dexter where there are red lights its glaringly obvious
All video on youtube, blu-ray and netflix is 420. There are some sattelites used for FEED between hemispheres that uses 422, bur that is not normal TV.
@@lolerie Actually, Broadcast standard is 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 Hz interlaced @ 10 bit 4:2:2, but many cable companies and some Satellite broadcasters only output 720p @ 10 bit 4:2:0.
I love that you bring topics like chroma sub sampling to the masses 😍
what he says is also wrong
@@jeffsaffron5647 i watched the video a month ago, so please elaborate what is wrong
@@TheScrubsfanforever he claims at 4:05 that chroma subsampling is affecting available colors. This is simply not true. That is what bit depth does.
What 4:2:0 means in for block of pixels 4 pixels wide, first line has 2 color samples and second line has 0 color samples. Color information gets copied from those neighboring pixels that have it. All the pixels still have their Y luminance channel. There won't be any visible color shift and all the colors are still available. What CS actually does it makes image look softer with less defined edges.
@@jeffsaffron5647 it does affect them, even though all colors are available, pixels entangled with this color will have less choices. 🥱🥱
You're the top TH-cam channel in Canada? That's nuts. Who knew there would be a time when a channel about technology would be so popular. Nice job!
Yes
Congrats to him
I actually was excited to have an Series X and start collecting some 4k steelbooks BUT it was loud playing them discs, nothing horrible but you'd notice it in a quiet scene, got a Panasonic because reviews said it was whisper quiet (as well as image advantages) and it is indeed quiet. Whilst the image difference between the two would be very difficult for the average user to tell the difference but everyone will notice the disc spinning noise from the Xbox.
I just wish the masses were more appreciative of physical media and that streaming didn't convey this idea that it's the future of media consumption when the quality is just not as good as if you had a disc
You can get the quality of physical media by ripping your personally owned Bluray discs and streaming them
If you don’t have or want a games console it makes sense. I did have a noticeable sound quality difference using higher quality cables on a digital audio signal once. Repeatable but I don’t know why.
Only the 90’s kids remember beardless Linus
😭 I started skating a month ago before is too late.
I remember when Linus hadn't been born yet.
4:2:0 vs 4:4:4 shouldn’t affect gradient either that much or even at all.
Bit depth does, HDR processing (and it’s bit depth) does. Source and display bit depth does. Even the display can enhance or remove the effect of banding.
Lowering the chroma subsampling, probably not to a meaningful degree.
Stronger subsampling (4:2:0) can cause significant color bleed on details with high contrast, especially on web streaming services like TH-cam where you're watching up close. For me personally 4:2:2 is still pretty good and pretty much indistinguishable for real life footage. But high YUV -> RGB conversion error is way more noticable to the average user than the chroma resolution.
I once found the output video a bit strange after fiddling with it in ffmpeg trying to transcode it from ProRes to H264 I believe. There was some incorrect encoder option or messed up filter which resulted in terrible YUV 4:2:0 -> raw 24-bit RGB conversion (wrong colors in highlights, mids, shadows, etc).
Even 8-bit 4:2:0 video or image can have great gradients with pretty much no color banding as long as the decoding, transformation, and encoding is done correctly without floating point error or other whacky stuff going on.
@@VideoklipBG very true. Lower chroma sub-sampling will defiantly lead to risk of color bleed. But I think in this film it’s described as a smaller color space which is completely wrong.
Color bleed / fussy pixels / soft edges yes, smaller color space no.
@@VideoklipBG Linus says “we get one quarter of the color space with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 nets us half of our color space” which is completely wrong. We get one quarter / half of the chroma resolution.
@@eriklindahl7376 True, and also when using better renderer like madVR on MPC that scales the chroma up to the luma resolution using high quality filtering it looks really good even on 4:2:0. What I notice is that most people don't understand color spaces at all and I sometimes see awful conversion between BT.601, BT.709 and sRGB on the web. Badly written software does this often too.
Edit: Can't say much about Linus, this might have been a mistake in script, but it is definitely wrong to confuse it with color space
If you know what to look for its very easy to spot and then you can't unsee it, for example computer generated fonts scrolling in an credit, flickering due to the lower chroma resolution.
Oh, you hit the nail on the head…. If you dont have the display calibrated, you are likely comparing green apples to red apples. And, by the way, to the folks this matters, they’re buying the UB9000 … not the 8 series.
This was a great video - pretty much fact this if cinema content is NOT a passion, most consumers will be 10000% satisfied with even a $150 4K UHD player.
To the folks that it matter to the image on the UB9000 is the exact same as the UB820. The processor and components are the same. The UB9000 stands out because of analogue audio and a metal chassis. The rest is the same.
@@Gurminder_S - this is true, however, add to this the analogue path is separated from the video path so that when using pure direct, there is no interplay between the audio and video signal.
This creates a noticeable difference in analog playback in my system.
I wish we knew the reason why Microsoft hasnt implemented Dolby Vision for disc playback. Whether its a Dolby licensing (cost) decision, or if its simply buried in the list of enhancements and hasnt risen to the top yet? Personally I'd pay a licensing fee for DV in the same way I had to for the optional Dolby Atmos and DTS X apps.
It's 100% going to be licensing costs. Literally the only way they make money is through licensing, so you know they're going to be anal about it.
I don't think it's license as you paying for dobly Atmos app is you paying for the license instead of Microsoft.
Maybe dobly doesn't want to or care enough to implement an app. I think the biggest issue with dobly vision is you need a display too to display the content and I think dobly found out that most PC users don't really look for dobly vision monitors which go for very high prices.
@@shoraz … it’s a CONSOLE. A good portion of people use consoles on TVs, not gaming monitors (though I do realize most do, the Xbox was created as a home media device, remember the live tv bs back in the Xbox one time period?)
@@braapybobby and they scratched this as being the all in one device for the house. They stated this with the reveal of the series x as they were going back to gaming focused.
@@MrC0D4LIFE Such a waste, was so nice having my cable passthrough my xbox so that I could have each of the big 3 consoles plugged into my tv at once and not sacrifice cable. Now I have to have a separate streaming box, blu ray player and get to pick one console.
Been a UB820 owner for nearly 2 years now, best 4k blu ray player out there right now.
I realize this is 7 months old, but a dedicated UHD 4K blu ray player that supports DV for $180 now from Sony. I was thinking of upgrading our PS4 Pro to a PS5 with blu ray capabilities in mind but thanks to this video I won't be going that route.
Two things not mentioned here… the Panasonic made less vibration noise than either Xbox or my less expensive Sony stand alone player. Same goes for disc hang up/freeze/skip issues. Zero in months of watching lots of disc vs several on both my other players.
Wait, I thought you rip all of your Blu-Ray discs & save it on your personal server? You even did a video on the new server you set up for the new house.
I do that
That's the way to go, I think
I picked up a Bray/DvD player that was region free so i could order disks from other countries to support original artists
If u have the storage and perfect vision that’s the best way, but 1080p x264 is fine for most people
@@AIGeneratedVoiceMEMES glasses...glasses offer perfect vision for most people.
I said most.
I just got an 820 after using an Xbox One S and then a Series X as players. I can definitely tell the difference. Also the upscaling it’s doing with Blu-rays is on another level, I’ve never seen colors pop more. It’s not a placebo either, I compared Blu-ray Discs on the 820, LG, Sony, Magnavox and Samsung players that I own and the UB820 is noticeably better
Picture quality across all Panasonic players is uniform. The difference between the $200 base and $600 flagship comes down to audio connectivity.
There is also HLG, an HDR format that extends and behaves much like SDR. It's supported on TH-cam and is an interesting take compared to the other fixed standards.
And also popular in UK.
@@lolerie That's because it was made by and gets broadcast by the BBC :P.
Using a Samsung Blu Ray Player as my surround SOUND WITH MY TV. It is a 5.1.1 and works great, only downside fault it is all wired Speakers. ❤
You should re-run this test on your Epson 6050ub when you get the room finished. The Panasonic’s tone mapping is killer for HDR on projectors.
Go with option 3: Rip your UHDs on the PC, put them on a drive and watch them via a Media Player.
If it's a simple video file, not an *.iso, you also skip all the "don't pirate" shit, which you as a legit buyer shouldn't even have to watch in the first place, as a legit buyer.
Now you also have a digital backup when your discs are scratched or will die (something something 30-100 years if they are made and stored perfectly, but that never happens, so... 2-20 years?)
and, u can carry them arroud or use a local plex server
Yeah, I was even going to put a comment very similar. Also, the best thing with Plex is you can play it just about anywhere like the other comment. Not to mention the PC blu ray drive is cheaper and can even get a device like Apple TV for a very good price these days I'm even still using 2017 one.
Now you will be paying with your time. even though I do prefer it myself. not going to waste $500 on a player. xbox and PS should have a pro version with Dolby vision support.
@@mhnoni time? getting the movies actually wastes more time, literally, and once u have it its as easy as Netflix
@@greenumbrellacorp5744 Flash a drive if you found one with a custom firmware and use a third-party tool like MakeMKV to rip the contents of the disc, the time is the price you are paying for, unless there is another way I'm not aware of?
My best reason for going with a dedicated player is power consumption. An Xbox playing a 4K disk will use an exorbitant amount of power compared to a dedicated player, and especially the high-end players have better tools for things like handling Metadata and image optimizations that aren't just gimmicks. I'm personally running a 5-year old Sony UBP-X700, which I got for $200 and it's rock solid for performance with its biggest downside being some noise when playing certain disks.
Why did LTT stop making HDR videos, I really enjoyed that HDR video from a while back
Prbly too much work for a niche audience
Kind of a pain to work with for a limited audience who can use it
I know! I would love to see HRD videos from LTT :(
@@MobiusKun I'd say most people could access it, most smartphones within the last 3 years support HDR to some extent and I don't know for sure but I feel a fair amount of people watch TH-cam on their phones rather than their TV'S. and those who are hardcore fans and watch on their TV'S are likely to have HDR capable ones anyway. I could be wrong though
@@MobiusKun niche? in 2022? every single phone supports HDR 10+. even midrangers.
Their content is clearly targeted at the mobile market looking at their aspect ratio.
There are still reasons for a standalone Blu-ray/4K player outside of what you outlined.
1. The Series X (and PS5) don't have 100% compatibility for the standard Blu-ray format -- specifically 3D Blu-ray. Yep, not as dead as you would believe -- titles as recent as Dune (2021) have been released on the format. And Marvel and Pixar continue to release nearly every one of their titles to date on region-free 3D Blu-ray. I still enjoy the occasional 3D title on my projector setup (by the far the BEST way to watch 3D).
2. (And we're just a little in tinfoil hat territory here, but bear with me). Rights-holders are just waiting for the end of physical media because the idea of someone having unrestricted and permanent access to near-theater grade versions of their content doesn't make sense to them for continued monetization of that content. It's not out of the realm of possibility to speculate that at some point down the line, they'll employ some kind of killswitch that keeps connected disc players from playing certain content (if not necessarily ALL of it). A standalone player never needs to be connected unless you happen to use the streaming apps on it (you shouldn't be using those inferior apps, BTW). I guarantee you always-connected game consoles will be at the top of that list.
What about using a pc?
@@adrianbergqvist8622 Microsoft just killed UHD Blu-ray playback on Windows with certain hardware configurations. I personally wouldn't rely on PC for the future of continued Blu-ray support. I've always used it as a last resort myself.
"3D Blu-ray. Yep, not as dead as you would believe" Yes it is. Just because they can still get suckers to buy it doesn't mean it isn't dead. Nobody shoots for 3D anymore. It's as dead as the Avatar Franchise.
If you have linux that would never be a problem. Also there would always be someone who makes some sort of open source software work for windows as well.
@@mzaite
"Just because they can still get suckers to buy it doesn't mean it isn't dead."
A little nasty, there, don't you think? If I buy it and still enjoy it, that makes me a sucker? Point is, there's still a market for it (outside the US) and they're getting enough of a return on their investment to keep producing it. The very definition of "not dead". Just because it's not getting pushed as hard as it was, doesn't mean it's "dead". It's definitely niche, now.
"Nobody shoots for 3D anymore."
Irrelevant. "Shooting for 3D" was never a guarantor of good 3D in the first place. Some of the best 3D presentations out there are post-conversions of movies that were never planned for 3D. Studios simply decided that it wasn't worth the time and money when they could get nearly the same results with a well-authored post-conversion.
If you are someone like me who prefers to watch movies and play games via physical media, and does both a lot, it makes sense to have a separate blu ray player.
When I got my PS2 it became my introduction to DVD, and I initially used it as both a games console and a DVD player, but I started to notice that the picture and audio would often go out of sync so I ended up investing in a standalone DVD player that also upscaled to 1080p.
Jump forward a few years and I got the PS3 and I gradually moved over to blu ray and as I was not about to go buying a separate blu ray player as they were hella expensive, it stayed as my blu ray player for it's entire life. Come the PS4 it was pretty much the same but I found that the more you used the loading system that Sony have used since the PS3, the quicker it started to go wrong and in the end my blu ray drive gave up. It was around this time that the Pro version came out so felt it was worth an upgrade as all I could play on the old one was digital or streaming.
Of course, ridiculously despite it being a "4K" machine it did not come with a 4K drive, so I bit the bullet and invested in a rather expensive 4K blu ray player which was also multi region for standard blu ray.
My thought process was that I wanted to be able to get 4K discs if necessary, and after the fuck up of my PS4's blu ray drive I no longer wanted to use my console for watching movies.
It was in my opinion the right decision as these front loading slots on Playstations are prone to pack up with too much use, which is why my PS5 blu ray drive stopped accepting discs after only 4 months of usage (I have been playing it a lot due to being off sick for nearly two years). Not sure the quality of the Microsoft mechanisms, but I just wish Sont would go back to the traditional tray that PS2 used to have and pretty much every standalone player or PC has.
This is the main reason I feel that playing disc based movies on a console is a bad move. Plus, while my PS5 was on it's holiday being fixed/replaced by Sony, I still had my PS4 for gaming and by standalone 4K blu ray player for movies.
9:33 best part
I have the UB9000 both the 820/9000 are fantastic players
for me, one of the main benefits is just less wear on the Blu-ray drive. I always figured the hours spent watching movies was that many fewer hours i would get playing games. i get that a stand-alone solution that is purpose built is better but for those that dont have the space or want to spend the money, a console is good enough.
Modern consoles bare use their drives for games anymore, they copy everything over and then just use the disc to check the license
A dedicated 4k player of this quality will always be better than a gaming console, but I think it’s way more important to buy an Oled tv before worrying about that. In my opinion the quality difference is much more noticeable switching from an LED to OLED than a gaming console to dedicated player.