How do we deal with the problem of evil? | John Lennox
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- Oxford Professor Emeritus John Lennox explores the problem of evil in our world. | UC San Diego, 2015 | View full forum at • Godless Goodness? Sour... | Explore more at www.veritas.org.
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Evil exists in this world. It's not a hard problem for me. I understand it's a fallen world. Sin caused it to begin with. My heart goes out to those who suffer. I've suffered in life and many suffer much more. This life is temporal. There is hope. GODS grace is sufficient.
You're wrong. You should read my comment last pargraph.
@@KuanGung So now you are the absolutist who has figured it out. Good one buddy.
@@andyzar1177 he’s a clever one indeed 😆
Why can't that God just do away with evil.
Great input. I've suffered a lot in life too many tragedies I hope it gets better for me soon.
Absolutely beautiful and powerful statement! One of my favorite thinkers.
Would be if it wasn't unsustainable ill-figured nonsense.
@@KuanGung ok mr intellectual 🧐
Very wise. And true
Complex yet simple. This ain't heaven. Evil will not be aloud in heaven
"We're wishing ourselves out of existence if we say could God not have made a world in which people are incapable of doing evil?" - Spot on!
And yes, that is the meaning of the cross, God is not distant from our suffering.
Actually, it goes deeper than that. We have a spirit fragment of our Divine Father-friend (that's what God is to me) sharing our life with us, as a constant companion, ever seeking to help us work things out.
Go take a look at Genesis and have a rethink of your "Spot on".
“For the normative self-understanding of modernity, Christianity has functioned as more than just a precursor or catalyst. Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of a continual critical reappropriation and reinterpretation. Up to this very day there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a post-national constellation, we must draw sustenance now, as in the past, from this substance. Everything else is idle postmodern talk.”
Sociologist, Jürgen Habermas
👍👍👍
I was told by my brother who was told by a preacher once , it’s a good thing we DO NOT get what we deserve. If we are truly honest with ourselves , most of us deserve much worse than what happens to us in this life. With that said, Jesus suffered more than most on this earth and did it willingly so that at some point the suffering we endure here turns to a beautiful loving peace. Thank you lord God for your grace, your promise of peace and forgiveness. The sacrifice you made for our eternity of paradise is sooooo gratefully appreciated in Jesus name…. Amen 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This thoughtful man’s answer should be listened to often. Ultimately he rejects atheism because he requires a better answer to suffering. This very human response leads him to Christianity and is the same response that leads billions of Muslims, Buddhists , and Hindus to their faith. The same response that has driven believers down through the ages in gods now forgotten.
Sur, I'll listen to it whenever I want a laugh.
@@KuanGung I may have been too subtle. I was trying to point out that Lennox's reasoning was very flawed. Wanting a certain answer to suffering is not evidence of anything.
Lennox’s answer suffers from the same issue he accuses atheism of. His appeal to the idea of a god doesn’t remove the suffering and doesn’t explain the existence of evil. His vague promise that there will be justice in some other world is (as he essentially admits) a desperate attempt to give hope to hopeless people. Granted, there’s an altruistic instinct behind the attempt, but it exposes the root of religion - it’s an unfounded hope, an empty promise, and a fantasy story we tell ourselves when we don’t like the way the world really is.
I wonder where this other world is given it was supposed to be earth?
😂
Problem of evil is something no one can explain. As a Christian, I can only give you one argument: who defines what evil is? Its a difficult topic to discuss about. I wished I could tell the answer, why evil exist. But I think really it goes down to what evil really is. Who gets to decide what evil really is?
@@johanthornqvist5686 Even if it’s hard to define evil with great precision, I assume we both agree that evil exists in the world. And if that’s true it’s hard to say there is an omni-powerful, Omni-benevolent god. Either god sees evil and cannot change it (not all-powerful) or god sees the evil and chooses not to do anything about it (not all-good).
@@KestyJoe if God removed evil, everyone would be gone. All of us has commited evil things in life.
John, you are right; the only solution to the problem of evil, in fact, it is more than a mere 'solution' it is the resolution of the human dilemma that we are both sublime and debased in a world that reflects our brokenness at every point (the Genesis 1-3 gives the details).
The resolution is in Christ who, as you said, takes death upon himself and defeats it. He is the victory over death and estrangement and invites us to join him. Our choice, of course, and we are not robots; robots could never enjoy the fulfillment of new life in Christ and the hope of his kingdom.
In a way the 'problem of evil' is the mark of our need for closure to our dilemma. For the atheist and the pantheist there should be no 'problem' that they detect because there is no 'dilemma'. It is imagined away in the dullness of the suppression of man's full humanity. The 'problem' tells us that there is a massive existential disconnection that we are caught up in and must look outside the broken system for its resolution, for our final point of integration.
Yet most discourse about the 'problem' of evil fails to understand who God the creator/redeemer is. It imagines a deist god who is our disinterested entertainer; or the philosophers' god who is an ontological formula; not the God who lives and speaks and draws us to fellowship with him. The God who is working in and through the people he has regenerated to resolve history in his New Creation for endless life with him in the restored creation. Then it remains the individual's choice to join him in rejecting the brokenness and reaching out for healing, or looking dully at it with no hope as they look forward to ending up as nothing more than worm dung.
Evil STILL exists because God uses the evil in this world to strengthen us and pull us to rely on the mercy and goodness of God. Its better to have a person who has experienced doing wrong yet desires to do good than the one who has never seen sin. However, Satan and his demons can use the idea of evil and suffering to turn people away.
Ever read the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis? Did you understand it?
@@KuanGung Yes I've read it. God did not cause sin and evil, but God did say he uses the "what was mean for evil" for good.
If religious fairy tales & fiction can fool Dr. John Lennox, imagine what it could do to ordinary folks.
We can have empathy, without God. We can have sympathy, without God. We can have counseling, without God. We can have hope, without God. We can have peace, without God. We can have fulfillment, without God. We can have truth, without God. We can have happiness and joy, without God. We can have all that is 'bad' and all that is 'good' without God. Amen.
As brilliant, well-educated and accomplished as he is, John expounds on the most difficult of topics in everyman terms, and with compassion and humility most assuredly planted and cultivated by Christ Himself.
Evil is still committed by religious adherents all over the world in the name of god .
Of course religion doesn’t save anyone ??
This world ain't heaven
What is ‘evil’?
So evil (punishment in this life) and justice (which really if you think about what is being sold is eternal punishment for other lives). In such a gods kingdom evil never ends and he or she gets trapped it by as well. I think the professor is letting blind faith takeover his thinking.
Evil is not just punishment in this life. Are you trying to say justice = evil ? It seems nonsense to me.
only the self righteous think there is a problem of evil.
we are evil.
this is plain fact,
indeed when we ask why God still lets us live when we see that WE are evil the question as to why evil exists is answered
and the solution is to repent
Maybe there is another logical answer as to why God allows us to continue to exist in a world of good AND evil...its because God is both good AND evil. That is where our origin of evil comes from... in HIS image and likeness.
Shalom beautiful people and many blessings to you all and to your beautiful families.
The man of valour Mr. Lennox is right, atheism itself does not remove the existence of evil. And I also sympathize with those who are desiring answers about why evil is present in this world. People have the right to know the truth and God wants us to understand the truth.
I do understand that atheism embraces the exercise of choice, which involves a person making the conscience decision to reject the idea that God exists. But it is this same type of decision making that caused mankind to release evil in this world. When looking at evil, we have to go back to mankind. Because it is man's (mankind) fault that evil is present in today's world. I am not saying any of this to be offensive or insensitive. But those who do not believe in God seem to sometimes blame this same God for allowing evil to plague humanity and the earth, when in fact He did not want humanity having any kind of involvement with evil.
Humanity has to take the "L" for this one. Man was the one who chose to disregard God's warning and instruction in Genesis chapter 2. God is not the culprit in this story, mankind is, (Adam and Eve and humanity as a whole). God gave mankind the ability to choose right from wrong. And He wanted man to learn the importance of making healthy decisions while exercising his intelligence in a fruitful and productive manner. But instead, man chose to listen to a creature that did not reflect his value, which ended up placing mankind in a fallen state.
But that bad decision did not stop God from having a plan in place for mankind's redemption which was His Son Jesus Christ. Even though evil and darkness is present in this world, God built humanity to give language to life and to a morality that reflects the righteousness of God. It is this righteousness that gives a pure language to what is good and just and right. Because everything we may deem as good, God may not see it as good. Our perception of good is tainted and it can be biased, because good is seen through our fallen state. It takes rebirth in order to see good correctly as well as evil. Because someone can see forgiving a murderer as something as evil or inhumane, when God sees it as something that is good, because that forgiveness creates room for the murderer to have his or her life changed. This shows us the beautiful creative power that God has placed in us. We have the ability to bring real restoration and change into places where evil and darkness has wrecked havoc. Light will always trump darkness. And that truth will always stand because of the fact that God does exist. He is Light and we are designed to reflect that light. Shalom
Since when has atheism had anything to do with evil?
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so we are gonna get justice from god against god?🤣
For what?
What is evil is people telling you this myth
This world ain't heaven
So you’ve defined evil. Nice. Now you at least have a foundation for differentiating good and evil. Now you are the authority on evil, perhaps you could teach the world. Oh - and how can we test your hypothesis?
ah so god is not all-powerful.
This world ain't heaven
I don’t know how you arrived at your biased conclusion. You didn’t find it in this video!
@@TheB1nary if God cannot make humans who freely choose not to do evil things, then he's not all powerful. If God can do that but chooses not to then he is either evil or uncaring. Try as he might, John Lennox cannot escape the epicurean dilemma.
@@neddevine7692 Christian theology has always taught that God indeed created humans with liberty (which is what you are referring to). They lost liberty - the freedom not to will to do bad things - when they fell into sin in the garden of Eden. Free will is the ability to choose according to your liberty. So now, at least in reformed theology, you will find the concept taught in a way that recognises we are free to choose according to our natures. Our natural inclinations are towards the evil and not the good.
@@TheB1nary
"Christian theology has always taught that God indeed created humans with liberty (which is what you are referring to)."
Non-specifically. (apart from the ones who claim there is a tri-omi god, all loving all-powerful all knowing).
"when they fell into sin in the garden of Eden."
Yes, god was certainly quite careless there.
"So now, at least in reformed theology, you will find the concept taught in a way that recognises we are free to choose according to our natures. Our natural inclinations are towards the evil and not the good."
Which implies that god is either not all powerful or not or loving, this does not escape the epicurean dilemma.
Ps
Seeing as how the majority of the replies you give to people criticising John's problematic response consist of laugh emojis, I think it is telling is a how vacuous theists objections to the problem of evil are.
unsurprisingly, all christian do is try to excuse their god for doing nothing when it comes to the "problem of evil". .
I do love the claim that atheism doesn't do anything for the pain and suffering in the world. That's right since atheism is just a conclusion that there is not a god or gods. Alas, for Christians, they are atheists too, so their whines are always quite funny about this. It's humans who do things about suffering not some god. And we can see that the complete lack of action by this god to do anything at all. Chrsitianity doesn't remove suffering at all. It offers a false promise, kicking the can down the road and funny how they never ever have to show that the promise comes true, it's conveniently after one is dead and can't question their lies.
It's also quite amusing to see claims that "earthquakes are necessary for the preservation of human life"? No evidence for that if this god is omnipotent and doesn't need the physical laws of this universe to make the earth work. It's just great when Christians try to use science to excuse their god's inaction. This then dissolves into the claim of this is the best world that this poor impotent god could make.
Finally, it's lovely to see that all Lennox has is no more than "believe and don't question, trust me that justice will be done" when there is no evidence for that at all. Lennox doesn't like to think that justice won't be done, so he has the feelies that there must be somethign that will happen, no evidence at all. Hope based on a lie isn't hope at all.
This world ain't heaven
In Jesus Christ their is HOPE 💫 In Jesus is a Design for Living the Life with a Reward for ETERNAL SALVATION (GODS KINGDOM) Amen 💫🕊🙏
Yes, false hope.
@@KuanGung you are excited I see.
God DID once make a world which was perfect. Humans allowed themselves to be conned into a less-than-perfect existence. The only way out of a debt a conman placed you under is to accept a permanent solution. That Solution in this case is Salvation. Salvation does more than preserve you against the second death. It also allows you to go through life with a safe empowering place deep enough that not even the worst evil can touch it. I say this as an abuse survivor. You are not alone, God DOES hear you, and another world is on its way... as well as another Solution when you choose it.
That part, "That place that goes deep enough", (and strengthens against those that go against that, and God), reminded me of part of a scripture....
Speaking of the hope (of salvation), being "an anchor for the soul", is what came to my mind...
Can’t believe my eyes and ears, are you guys for real, my observation tells me ‘maybe’, but in the matter of ‘truth’ you guys are simply off course. Open to Q&A.
@@shahrookherani870 why should people explain these matters to you when you make such a condescending remark fella ? Why does anyone owe you an explanation? Who are you ?
Only a fool believes and considers as sacred the superstitious stories of a book just because the book claims itself to be the holy truth.
What a load of nonsense. He’s a preacher not a thinker. Reminds me of Elmer Gantry.
This world ain't heaven
@@jedsparks7324 Not sure what your point is.
@@stanleyyoung7638 electro magnetic wave lengths. Remember school? What is spontaneous quantum reaction? Time can flow in every direction. One year can be like a thousand
If one thing happens that everyone thinks is impossible. All of reality is up for grabs.
@@jedsparks7324 Sorry, you are leaving out the entire history of science.
John lennox reduces his suffering by eating all the pies
God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil.
God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were God not restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences-Jesus Christ!
Oh that's so very funny!!! Quoting god "decided" real world with consequences and Adam and eve at the same time? According to you, Eve decided, not god.
@@KuanGung show me where I said that )
The only thing funny is you commenting on every single post. I bet you think you’re making a difference but you’re not. That’s what’s funny. It’s like college football. The Georgia Bulldogs are the top team and every team has tried there best to beat them but to know avail. They try and try but can’t do it. You’re the other teams. Goooooooo Dawgs!!! Sic em!!!!
Careful wishing for justice. All have sinned. Explain to the world the hope that is in you. Hope of life rather than death. Not justice. We all deserve death. That is justice.
You’re a dreamer John…it’s all myth…nothing more
Prove that to me Gary.
This world ain't heaven
@@robmarshall956 the stories in the Bible are great for Sunday school, but honestly…
Adam and Eve and a piece of fruit and we are all born sinful???
The Garden of Eden
The flood, God destroyed the planet, come on, really
God taking sides in human conflicts.
Don’t get me started on the New Testament…believing all that you’re no better than a 14th.C. Medieval peasant and this is the 21st.C.
We know a bit more.
@@garyroberts3859 honestly what ?? You sound like you want to say something but you haven’t said anything yet ?? Or are you waiting for me to respond?
@@garyroberts3859 huh? 😆