Hello thrivers!! Always remember that while trauma re-wires the brain and causes Cptsd - that doesn't mean you STAY that way forever. You can re - re-wire the brain thanks to neuroplasticity!! I will continue to do topics on healing, life after narcissism and overcoming the side effects of cptsd. As a reminder - you can get my PDF I MIss Me and I Want Me Back FREE on my new website... here's the link: micheleleenieves.mykajabi.com
Michele this really hit's me where I live. After I experience my life changing Trauma I became Numb inside. I believe I died over there. You are making me believe I have a path back.. Thank You
could you do a video on attachment trauma, I think when we experience broken attachment as kids, its screws our internal attachment system up, we try to attach to anything or nothing, it's just toxic i feel
It also doesn't help when everyone around you also looks at you like you are the crazy one because of what you are going through even once you are out of the relationship, that's why this education and knowledge is so important.
@@Noemie291 Exactly. My blood pressure was sky high while living with my narc mom and dad. I had constant migraines and tension headaches while living with the narcs. They are walking breathing human poison. Nothing is scarier than them.
@@Noemie291 that’s exactly what has happened to me Lily. I’m so injured and damaged that I can’t even live life anymore. Age 46 and I’m still in deep bondage to my NM. If she doesn’t outlive me the remainder of my life will be very poor quality. How many times I have felt like dying as a response to her chronic undermining and abuse.
The abuse , neglect, cheating, abandonment from the malignant narcissist alcoholic ex I thankfully divorced this year has caused so much c-ptsd and other health issues in myself and my children It should be a crime what destruction and damage this sadistic demon continues to get away with
“… they realized that the inconsistency of the water dropping caused them go into a psychotic break within 20 hours.” Now imagine living for years in this state.
You are more accurate than you could possibly know, and i know you went through it yourself. I walked on eggshells for 30 years because i never know when she was going to attack.
Yes, i am realizing that I still have my parents and my ex in my head with every decision I make, no matter how small. My mom's "are you sure you want to do that?" and my ex's and dad's "why did you just do that?". My subconscious is so afraid of making the wrong decision and I am constantly thinking up explanations of everything I'm doing, It's so exhausting. I have had a few days where these voices aren't around. I'm trying to figure out what am I doing differently those days. It usually follows talking myself through a hard situation and being more self compassionate.
Making a decision that you choose is a win even if it turns out to be the wrong one. Having them control us after all the harm they have caused is worse than a wrong decision. Everyone will make wrong decisions in life but not everyone will suffer from having that inner critic that they planted within us hindering us from a normal life.
You've explained this so perfectly well, you're saying things that are exactly what I'm going through, but I have no one to explain it to or that would care. I'm getting out though, I'm getting out! My bags are packed! This pandemic is what's causing me delay. I know what the abuse is, so I don't act out in front of others anymore, I keep my acting out privately to myself in my room.
Be safe in your leaving. Have a plan that protects you and puts you first. Narcs don't like abandonment, and can be extremely dangerous. They can't deal well with seeing bags packed and knowing that you are leving them. Be safe, be quiet, put yourself first. Take care.
Yes. My last two years at work were torture. Thanks to the lockdown, I lived. It was not safe and they would not stop - day after day, year after year. It was abuse. It was trauma. I am a shell of the person I used to be but I will recover. The career that was once the center of my life is in the rear view window now.
Same here. I'm more safe now thanks to working from home. I was hurted and manipulated at work after a personal trauma with violence. On top of it they insulted and pressured me. While I was always planning to keep working they still did not appreciate it. They only attacked me on top of it only bc I said I needed some time to keep working from home bc it gave me room to heal and I was able to do my work just as good as before maybe even better bc I was not in one tool with a bully. The manager literally said ' you can't always get a yes and amen'. Like I was requesting this for my luxery but it was a need. Besides... I was working well he even said my work was going well. Even now I think about it my heart bleeds and I'm crying. I was raped and strangled in my own house. I. Never crashed. All I asked for was working from home. Which was also done by colleagues and myself before but after my trauma focus was on me. Right after the managers comment corona came and the working from home issue was off the table. Not happy about corona ofcourse but for me my peace came back. The emotional battles after the traumatic event was almost worse or overshadowed it all. Until this day no one asks me how I'm doing, I was very optimistic and strong to stay positive but the mind games at work truly drove me desperate. I'm still here functioning but it's a wound of injustice in my heart bc no one really acknowledged the experience that I faced and still kept going. I did speak to a confident professional which helped a little bit. Now I try to be grateful for being safe at home. I could never go back to the old. My plan was and is to follow my dreams and work less but I am also tired from fighting and what if I will meet new manipulators in another job. I don't want to work in an office ever again. Many managers lost their control due to working from home. In my country they are working on a law. The legal right for employees to work from home. Bc many employers still demand working at the office despite the request from the government regarding covid measures.
@@peaceofmindofpeace1650 I understand “tired of fighting. “ I have had to fight for so long that I am just exhausted. I have no fight left. All of my dreams came true in that institution. I loved teaching. Really, really loved it! I was promoted, given my own department, and encouraged! Until someone decided that they wanted what I had. They didn’t work for it. but instead, they abused me, and traumatized me until I was anxious, depressed, and suicidal. And I never want to teach again. My career is over and I have better things to do rather than work around colleagues I cannot trust.
I hear that. I'm amazed at how they can switch on normal behavior IN front of others. What others see is you acting nasty and rude to her , making her look abused by you
It's not the water, it's the constant and persistent nature of the abuse leaving you in a vulnerable and helpless state. For me, I would describe the covert narcissist like a sniper hiding in the bushes and trees. You get to the point where you know they are there (watching and waiting) but you don't know when they are going to fire their shot? It was a relief once they fired as it was over.......for that day, at least. They got it out of their system, until the next day, like a groundhog day, repeating and repeating. It grinds you down. There is no let up or mercy. They have no empathy, once zeroed in you! Of course, around other people they are as nice as pie. You'd think they were 'darlings'. Their two-faced cold nature is horrible. I realised, they will never be happy. They spend their whole lives not feeling good enough. If hurting others is their pleasure, and seeing others happy, their pain, then you know they hate happiness in others because it reminds them they are never truly happy! Pity these dead souls and get away!
Good word Wisdom You can have education on the subject you can have experience of the subject . But Wisdom can only come from , experience and education .
Maybe I will tonight. I'm not really bad state or anything I just need to do that. Gone go get a few drinks and have a few thinks. We only realised that I even had ptsd recently so it's still relatively fresh. It was a lot from no love and a malignant narcissist mother etc. she adopted me then threw me away.
The Narc feeds of of your confusion. They feed off your lack of accomplishing a simple task. They give you a no win scenario, watch you try to please them by doing the right thing, then feeds off your inability to achieve a simple goal. No matter if you did it correctly, just as they asked you to, they will "flip the Script" on you and leave you wondering if maybe you are going crazy.
There the last people you would expect . It really took a toll on my trust of others . Michele has done a few videos on Flying Monkeys . They really helped me put things into a healthy perspective . Now I understand that a lot of them are being abused just like us.
Row row row your boat, gently down the stream...merrily merrily , merrily merrily, life is but a dream.... This situation is unreal. It seems like a bad dream. I feel displaced. The lines of reality are blurred. Nothing is as it seems with her, and never was. The extent of her lies is unknowable. I don't know that I really know her, or ever knew her. Its unsettling to know that most of what she portrayed to me over the years was a fake narrative. Equally unsettling is not knowing or grasping any useable notion of why she decided to treat me this way. I was supposedly the only man she ever truly loved, and the only man who ever valued her enough to expect better behavior and standards from her. 6 years, and all I could say about her is that I don't trust trust her because of the constant lying. I look back and all I see is a cycle of her double standards, dismissiveness, deception, and overall disrespect. All of this was to perpetually punish and provoke me (or any male in her life) in order to provide herself with a fresh supply of "permission" (justification) so she could feed her impulses feeling no guilt, but done so with a warped sense of justice and victory over yet another 'man" who was obviously out to destroy her and take advantage of her. Her method of 'protecting herself and her heart" was to assume the worst of a potential mate to justify inflicting damage while feeding those perverted impulses/appetites . She loved to mistreat me in ways I couldn't see clearly, but I sure felt it unmistakably and consistently. It was all about her winning and never feeling vulnerable. Just sick. Terrible way to live , terrible outlook on life. I know I can do better. So I'll continue to row, row, row, my boat...
Great video, especially the part with dropping water. This is the way how my narcissistic mother torturing me living above me and jumping on my head. Never know when she will jump and make that awful noise.
How do you go back to the person you used to be before the narcissist, if your entire being only knows life with one? I don't know who I am or ever was to go back to her. I was raised by a narcissistic parent, sexually molested by a narcissistic grandfather and great uncle, married my first covert narc "high school sweetheart" who was also physically abusive and to escape him was "rescued" by a master covert narcissist that I never saw coming. He controlled me for nearly 30 years, because I knew no differently. But even now, sitting here "free" and alone, who am I and will I ever know? How am I to trust any choices I make, especially when I've chosen so poorly in the past? Not everyone has a before the narc self to go back to and maybe I won't like who I really am anyway.
@@blrenx Imho it's like any occupation or experience that requires 'continuing education'. As long as you wean to genuine personal interest that get you back to where you belong. In normalville. Obsession vs. progression. All the best.
A disturbing thing they do is "set you up for failure". I have been in situations in the past where someone seems to have either offered to or been assigned to do something that included me. Some things that have resulted is : I told him he must of forgot to show up. He knew were were expecting him (not at all) why wasn't he ready? Oh, I didn't know he was out of town and scheduled ( a very) important meeting thinking he would be here. And the list goes on. They even will try to "insert" themselves into others relationships, friendships etc. pretending to be "oh so helpful" but instead setting things up for "near misses", embarrassments, missed opportunities etc. It seems like a cult since some phrases seem to be common like "right under nose" "You will never get back what we took from you" "we made you look like a complete a-hole" "We made it look like your fault". These are many times one or 2 narcissists that get together and have "fun" playing with the lives of other people.
Was married to a vicious, sadistic narcissist and I think most likely psychopath. My brain has changed, I felt my brain “crack.” I was suicidal and would go numb and shut down, sit in a chair and not move. I am so confused and I know I am so ill from the abuse. I hope I can get help and be able to heal.
I am so thank to learn about this stuff. My stepfather used to call me brain damaged and he tried to strangle me to death but luckily my mom pulled him off me. Later she said that never happened. I have attached people that are abusive. Now I am trying to spot them before they spot me
2:59 This is what they mean when they say "Death by a thousand paper cuts". The abuse is so subtle and covert? That it flies under the radar and causes distress and eventual CPTSD. Which is what i have comes to term with. I have been the victim of Narc abuse for many years, where i more or less developed SLDD and CPTSD.
Wow the water torture makes so much sense! My Mom did this to me. I was in a constant state of anxiety waiting for abuse. I heard you say once that they keep you at a level 9 so they can easily push you to a level 10 whenever they want to. You're so right, they change the rules constantly too! You can never satisfy them, unless you are totally miserable that is. My Mom would smile her brightest on days when I was really upset and in terrible fibro pain from the stress of her behavior. She would even seem lighter and more bouncy on her feet.
Thank you so much Michelle, this here is so much good information on trauma, around 4 years ago my mobile home had a gas leak and it blown up with me in it,thank God 🙏 I made it out, I have a pit bull and he's really helped me,but I really understand what you are saying, later on I have had to deal with a covert narcissist, and everything your saying is spot on, thanks again for your information 👍
Covert Narcissists use your past failed relationships to gaslight you to justify their poor treatment of you. That "drop of water" is a constant drip of emotional acid.
Thank you so much Michelle for talking about covert narcissism and how it affects people who are targets of such abuse, very helpful. I would love to hear you talk about how covert narcs use the Karpman drama triangle as a tool to abuse and how to not fall into that trap!
And how does one heal if this is a parent- whom now is targeting your child. Where is the justice department at on emotional psychological mental abuse-?
I was told by my ex that I was never satisfied and always upset, it was so weird. There was nothing I could do to convince him that I wasn't who he kept telling me I was. He must have been constantly triggered back to his childhood where he thought he could never be enough. Then he started telling the kids that they had all sorts of nefarious motives for when they were just being kids. It was abusive and anytime we tried to explain that him telling us we all wanted to harm him was not true and also harmful to us, he claimed it was PTSD from his childhood and so we had to be the ones to never trigger him. (Which was impossible, because most of the triggers happened at his work and he would take them out on us) I actually have a diagnosis of PTSD from the assaults in that relationship, but he used the language of mental health against everyone.
Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time energy and sincerity. This is all very much real and it's listening to souls like yourself who see the malicious ways of these narcissists.. and how deep the abuse goes that helps me move through this in my power. It's abuse on unseen levels and indeed complex to work through but with awareness, it will be worked through. I appreciate you and all the knowledge you share 💓
I know with my husband I'd get praise of small accomplishments that I did at times, to then immediately the next day get criticized and emotionally punished for not doing something as simple as dishes even if you've been severely sleep deprived. It makes you feel crazy and like you don't know what to do, or are ever good enough, even harder when you've got mental illness
Omg you summed up my life. I never could explain well what my mother did. You gave two examples of what she did, along with using God & law, age, gender, sexuality, my lack of intelligence, while boastful of others, against me. Only thing people noticed was my reaction, not the result or said I being too sensitive, when left to get better, I was mocked about leaving and will have no support. If we went to doc for mental therapy, she immediately undermine what I would say or give her opinion. If told teachers or friends they say she too sweet or your mom is biologically wired to love and dote on you or at least you have one, or you ungrateful. Or compare it to orphans or another household. Eventually I didn't say too much. Until one day when dealing with another friends mom and her son in dining room while over phone I was finally vindicated. Moments after she came by the house all pleasant. His mother was giving me a lecture about women and mothers, and said I must be mindful. She called my cell. Since my phone suck's with volume, it was on speaker and at full volume. My mothers venom started to show, I tried to warn her I am not alone and save her image, she a Narcassist have to have the final and only word. Friends mother starts to have a change of heart. For me the damage was done on all parts. Them trying to silence me and lecture than understand and hear me, made them in my mind the enemy. Whether they had finally been enlightened to all I said. Of course there was no proof, but I thought they would understand their friend is hurting. Tried to tell my grams, she waters it down to and compares it to me being unwell or odd, or unappreciating. All the while she might want to see me or visit and wonder why I'm antisocial and never happy. Says I just need medication. Heard that throughout my life. I need to be doped up for you to tolerate me. I always said the covert is the worst. My dad was and I think my sis is one too. Dad was overt, used physical intimdation with some verbal. Sis I believe uses a combination. The other thing what I remember her doing is when it came to wanting something like lunch money for school, she gave the impression that if I didn't need it, I wouldn't take it off the table. No she didn't say it was there, but it was the right amount on table. If I did pick it up without asking I am a theif, and finally if I call to ask, you are a dummy because you know that was for your lunch stop holding me up is her favorite line.
First off you’re awesome and second I wouldn’t truly probably accept that people can heal totally and move forward from this but…you and a few others out there I’ve watched have obviously got it figured out. I try and try and some days it’s better but it can go South quick and last for days or weeks where you can’t thing straight and are paranoid for good reason and the worse is nobody or very few will believe you or even entertain the idea. Some stalk you and ghost you or act totally different for no reason and you know they bought into some nonsense probably spread by the couple narcs or psychopaths or hybrid between the two. I don’t say this lightly and don’t care if they see this someday bc they know who they are and what they are and the world needs brought up to speed on these types quickly and they sort of are because of the courage and tenacity you and a few others have shown. I need to get past the TH-cam stage lol and I do sometimes but yeah I may be signing up for whatever you have bc about at wits end and very frustrating bc I was never like this and I do not plan on it. So that was a rant as I do occasionally but if you read this thank you and for the victims that know what this stuff is about God bless you bc I know you’ve been through it bad very bad probably in the most heat ripping ways ever and it may still be happening. So keep on going. I would use stronger words but trying to keep things appropriate. All of you rock. These people suck to the tenth power and nobody that hadn’t already been educated directly, would likely ever see them coming. Spread the word.
"Getting my brain to rewire" is exactly what I need to do! That's New terminology to me. How does one do that? Even God warned us about consistent verbal abuse in this verse Proverbs 27:15 KJV A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike. Plus you exemplified it when you talked about the water drop torture. 👍 It's the little arbitrary consistent things that have been driving me crazy. I need to figure out a way to heal and rewire my brain while I'm still in this relationship: because of my young children still at home.
Yeeess! I'm familiar w that text! Honestly Keith you should join my Thrivers School of Transformation - it's all about creating your life despite what you've been through or are still going through =)
I literally just described my suspected covert narc parent as erosion to my husband. Its not something always big that you notice,you are just slowly being chipped away.
Thank you for your videos. I relate, understand, but feel paralyzed. Nine years in RelationShit with this man. I am sure if it were 100 years ago, I would be in an asylum.
It's death of a thousand cuts also!..this abuse also is actually science based it also shrinks rhe amigdala and hippocampus and constantly flushes cortisol thru your system in the F3/4 response..which is Flight Freeze Fight or Fawn ( people pleasing behaviour )...this will lead to adrenel fatigue syndrome and other physical illnesses.! thank you sweetheart you look beautiful and healthy....much love 💜
Yeeess! Exactly - so well said =) And the thing is - the amygdala and hippocampus don't simply 'spring back' we have to do the inner work to create that healthy balance!!! Trauma does not just 'go away' like the common cold...
Double bind. He gives me very vague "assignments". I think he does it SO THAT no matter what I do he can find something wrong with it. He does fly into rages though. About every 3 weeks I make him, as he says, "lose my shit". In between he mostly ignores me.
What's also bad with these narcs is they are very clever at figuring out what will particularly torture you - so that can be even more difficult to explain to others.. and it's true the inconsistencies of when the abuse happens make you question yourself more, wondering what was different that time.. I remember a certain relief near the break up of my last relationship when I saw abusive behaviour pure and simple and knew it was not my fault. That point took me years to ger to. What's good in life in general - hope for the future, optimism about change, seeing the good in others can lead to terrible pain when applied to a relationship with a narc.
Hi, I’m wondering how do you differentiate “low self-esteem” as a trigger to the narcissist brain, from sincere humility, or a deep feeling of sorrow/remorse resulting from a wrong life choice, or action, resulting in guilt. I hope you understand my question.
I had a bad experience with a subscriber online where they posted a sexual comment on my video, I went to their channel and asked for respect, then he got angry and made a video talking to his subscribers to go to this other woman's video and help him out. I didn't realize it at the time, but what he was attempting to do was coercion. That traumatized my brain, so when a guy at open mic night a decade later made a comment to me about knowing about stuff, it made me freeze up and I felt like I can't talk about it with any of my friends because they are more sexually liberal than I am and they don't understand what the big deal is. It's just that sexual comments are very triggering for me.
I’m just wondering something about an event that happened last Friday and how I felt. I found out on Friday my ex narc has found my ex husband who was very abusive to my children and I. My ex has been trying to destroy me since I left him 3 years ago. When I found out my brain seemed to shut down. I couldn’t move and after a while I was walking around in a sort of daze. Couldn’t think clear , my speech seemed delayed and felt a whole had opened up. I suffer from depression and anxiety but with everything I’ve gone through is this ptsd ?? Comments are welcome to help me xxxx
Does Michele or anyone know how of tips how to support your child (pre teen) who has witnessed and experienced psychological abuse from narc parent but we still see the parent (too difficult to cut off completely)
This is really interesting. Not sure if my mother has NPD or just a comorbidy. I'm a man in my forties. My mother has just been into my room 4 times in 1 hour. Knocks once and storms in. First time ultra nice enquiring how I was after I told her I loved her but would limit my time with her due to my ugly rages and heart palpitations. 2nd time she brought sheets. 3rd more bed linen. 4th shows me signs of low blood circulation on her hands. Lucky she didn't say the usual " don't worry I'll be dead soon" or I might have raged again lol.
I went to get a blood test done years ago now, and it was the kind where they took my blood and filled it up in test tubes and I was always very interested to watch this being done because I found it fascinating. Anyway, this one time the woman couldn't find the vessel in my arm and once she had it in she really wiggled it about and and at the time I wanted to swear really really badly but my mom was in the room and by the time I was done and I came out I nearly ended up on the floor, I had to sit on a bench in the middle of town until I thought I felt okay again. Well, I thought I was okay after a bit and when we walked into somewhere, some sort of doctors office for my mom I started getting hot flushes and was ready to pass out again. Now, years on, I cringe, I'm a big baby, I get squeemush a lot easily and just the thought of having any jab has made me worce. I've even said to nurses "now, do you know what you are doing?" I know it only happened that one time with that one nurse but it's - I guess it's traumatised the brain. I can't help it..
Its possible for someone who has just discovered a moment of extreme happiness, contentment and peace can trigger a CPTSD reaction in them. Which is strange because it might be percieved by others as a moment of madness and trained professionals might regard or automatically suspect it as a symptom of mania or manic episode. What's the matter mate? Well,,, nothing much really, I'm just feeling good for a moment. 😐 How true could this actually be?
Michele, please put a Trigger Warning in the title. The scene of domestic violence to a mother and child completely caught me by surprise and was extremely triggering for me. I want to be able to forward your videos, but not without a Trigger Warning in the titles.
There are a couple of youtubers on this subject, who suddenly start yelling, for emphasis, in their videos. I have to turn them off, because it triggers CPTSD. I can't believe only one other person, who replied to my comment on that video, felt the same way. I guess the way these youtubers were raised, to them it's just normal speaking to suddenly yell. It's what they're used to. They should know how it would affect people though. I remember when I first called a therapist's office, and they spoke to me in a soft, sweet voice as if they were talking to a child - I guess because they don't know the mental state of the person on the other end of the line. In a way it seemed strange to be talked to like that, but mostly it gave me a very calm, peaceful feeling. Everyone should talk this way!
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Hello thrivers!! Always remember that while trauma re-wires the brain and causes Cptsd - that doesn't mean you STAY that way forever. You can re - re-wire the brain thanks to neuroplasticity!! I will continue to do topics on healing, life after narcissism and overcoming the side effects of cptsd. As a reminder - you can get my PDF I MIss Me and I Want Me Back FREE on my new website... here's the link: micheleleenieves.mykajabi.com
Thank you so much I’m looking up neuroplasticity and talk to my therapist about it . I’ve wanted and healed a lot but a ways to go . 😊🤪
Michele this really hit's me where I live. After I experience my life changing Trauma I became Numb inside. I believe I died over there. You are making me believe I have a path back.. Thank You
could you do a video on attachment trauma, I think when we experience broken attachment as kids, its screws our internal attachment system up, we try to attach to anything or nothing, it's just toxic i feel
LOvE To You Sister!
It also doesn't help when everyone around you also looks at you like you are the crazy one because of what you are going through even once you are out of the relationship, that's why this education and knowledge is so important.
The reality is that most people don't care. They are not looking at you like your crazy. They are looking at you like. " why are you telling me".
Agreed
@@mnstrmike4853 Yes that too, for sure. Hope you are doing well Mike :)
Peace unto you as well.
AMEN sister.
Being raised subjected to the influence of these toxic people has such crippling emotionl and mental problems
and physical .. :(
@@Noemie291 Exactly. My blood pressure was sky high while living with my narc mom and dad. I had constant migraines and tension headaches while living with the narcs. They are walking breathing human poison. Nothing is scarier than them.
@@DMCdantenero112 I developed life-long illnesses that keep me from* living anything.
@@Noemie291 that’s exactly what has happened to me Lily. I’m so injured and damaged that I can’t even live life anymore. Age 46 and I’m still in deep bondage to my NM. If she doesn’t outlive me the remainder of my life will be very poor quality. How many times I have felt like dying as a response to her chronic undermining and abuse.
The abuse , neglect, cheating, abandonment from the malignant narcissist alcoholic ex I thankfully divorced this year has caused so much c-ptsd and other health issues in myself and my children
It should be a crime what destruction and damage this sadistic demon continues to get away with
So the Covert Narc is like a bloodhound. They can sense when there is an Empath in the room. So they gravitate to them for supply.
“… they realized that the inconsistency of the water dropping caused them go into a psychotic break within 20 hours.” Now imagine living for years in this state.
You are more accurate than you could possibly know, and i know you went through it yourself. I walked on eggshells for 30 years because i never know when she was going to attack.
Yes, i am realizing that I still have my parents and my ex in my head with every decision I make, no matter how small. My mom's "are you sure you want to do that?" and my ex's and dad's "why did you just do that?". My subconscious is so afraid of making the wrong decision and I am constantly thinking up explanations of everything I'm doing, It's so exhausting. I have had a few days where these voices aren't around. I'm trying to figure out what am I doing differently those days. It usually follows talking myself through a hard situation and being more self compassionate.
Making a decision that you choose is a win even if it turns out to be the wrong one. Having them control us after all the harm they have caused is worse than a wrong decision. Everyone will make wrong decisions in life but not everyone will suffer from having that inner critic that they planted within us hindering us from a normal life.
@@lelev.5758 Well said, thanks!
Relatable regarding decisions.
Yes your own voice is winning. Your personality is stronger than their control.
@@peaceofmindofpeace1650 thanks!
Michelle, Explaining CPTSS with the metaphor of Chinese water torture is brilliant!! 🌟🌟 Namaste 🙏
You've explained this so perfectly well, you're saying things that are exactly what I'm going through, but I have no one to explain it to or that would care. I'm getting out though, I'm getting out! My bags are packed! This pandemic is what's causing me delay. I know what the abuse is, so I don't act out in front of others anymore, I keep my acting out privately to myself in my room.
Wishing you a safe and successful escape 💕
Be safe in your leaving. Have a plan that protects you and puts you first. Narcs don't like abandonment, and can be extremely dangerous. They can't deal well with seeing bags packed and knowing that you are leving them. Be safe, be quiet, put yourself first. Take care.
Yes. My last two years at work were torture. Thanks to the lockdown, I lived. It was not safe and they would not stop - day after day, year after year. It was abuse. It was trauma. I am a shell of the person I used to be but I will recover. The career that was once the center of my life is in the rear view window now.
Same here. I'm more safe now thanks to working from home.
I was hurted and manipulated at work after a personal trauma with violence.
On top of it they insulted and pressured me. While I was always planning to keep working they still did not appreciate it. They only attacked me on top of it only bc I said I needed some time to keep working from home bc it gave me room to heal and I was able to do my work just as good as before maybe even better bc I was not in one tool with a bully. The manager literally said ' you can't always get a yes and amen'. Like I was requesting this for my luxery but it was a need. Besides... I was working well he even said my work was going well.
Even now I think about it my heart bleeds and I'm crying.
I was raped and strangled in my own house. I. Never crashed. All I asked for was working from home. Which was also done by colleagues and myself before but after my trauma focus was on me.
Right after the managers comment corona came and the working from home issue was off the table. Not happy about corona ofcourse but for me my peace came back.
The emotional battles after the traumatic event was almost worse or overshadowed it all.
Until this day no one asks me how I'm doing,
I was very optimistic and strong to stay positive but the mind games at work truly drove me desperate.
I'm still here functioning but it's a wound of injustice in my heart bc no one really acknowledged the experience that I faced and still kept going. I did speak to a confident professional which helped a little bit. Now I try to be grateful for being safe at home. I could never go back to the old.
My plan was and is to follow my dreams and work less but I am also tired from fighting and what if I will meet new manipulators in another job.
I don't want to work in an office ever again.
Many managers lost their control due to working from home.
In my country they are working on a law. The legal right for employees to work from home. Bc many employers still demand working at the office despite the request from the government regarding covid measures.
@@peaceofmindofpeace1650 I understand “tired of fighting. “ I have had to fight for so long that I am just exhausted. I have no fight left. All of my dreams came true in that institution. I loved teaching. Really, really loved it! I was promoted, given my own department, and encouraged! Until someone decided that they wanted what I had. They didn’t work for it. but instead, they abused me, and traumatized me until I was anxious, depressed, and suicidal. And I never want to teach again. My career is over and I have better things to do rather than work around colleagues I cannot trust.
💙🤎. Wishing you good 😊
"everyone loved my ex" " she was sooooo nice"... yeah.
I hear that. I'm amazed at how they can switch on normal behavior IN front of others. What others see is you acting nasty and rude to her , making her look abused by you
Yep...😔
@@williamchiusano3185 They are faker than a pair of Thai nikes mate. its hard asf man feel you! Love.
They find one person to devalue and their followers jump on board. That's how religion works too.
It's not the water, it's the constant and persistent nature of the abuse leaving you in a vulnerable and helpless state. For me, I would describe the covert narcissist like a sniper hiding in the bushes and trees. You get to the point where you know they are there (watching and waiting) but you don't know when they are going to fire their shot? It was a relief once they fired as it was over.......for that day, at least. They got it out of their system, until the next day, like a groundhog day, repeating and repeating. It grinds you down. There is no let up or mercy. They have no empathy, once zeroed in you!
Of course, around other people they are as nice as pie. You'd think they were 'darlings'. Their two-faced cold nature is horrible. I realised, they will never be happy. They spend their whole lives not feeling good enough. If hurting others is their pleasure, and seeing others happy, their pain, then you know they hate happiness in others because it reminds them they are never truly happy! Pity these dead souls and get away!
This is so helpful and there is real wisdom here.
Good word Wisdom You can have education on the subject you can have experience of the subject . But Wisdom can only come from , experience and education .
One of the steps to healing is to have a good cry. Just let it out, perfectly okay
Maybe I will tonight. I'm not really bad state or anything I just need to do that. Gone go get a few drinks and have a few thinks. We only realised that I even had ptsd recently so it's still relatively fresh. It was a lot from no love and a malignant narcissist mother etc. she adopted me then threw me away.
Thank you. Exactly what I needed to hear right now. 💗
Thank you so much for these educational videos! I hope everyone reading this has a relaxed and calm Wednesday!
Namaste
Same to you😃
6:13 SO this is what it means when someone says, "Boy you are never happy with anything!". It's the double-binding that keeps them unhappy (the Narc).
The Narc feeds of of your confusion. They feed off your lack of accomplishing a simple task. They give you a no win scenario, watch you try to please them by doing the right thing, then feeds off your inability to achieve a simple goal. No matter if you did it correctly, just as they asked you to, they will "flip the Script" on you and leave you wondering if maybe you are going crazy.
@@williampipkin8815 Yes yes, they will "move the goalpost" as they call it. It's like the Narc is allergic to remedy.
Dear Michele, thanks a lot for this video. Exactly how I felt, I did not understand my own behavior... Thanks a lot!
'CPTSD', it's how flying monkeys are made; One' has to always be aware'.
There the last people you would expect . It really took a toll on my trust of others . Michele has done a few videos on Flying Monkeys . They really helped me put things into a healthy perspective . Now I understand that a lot of them are being abused just like us.
Row row row your boat, gently down the stream...merrily merrily , merrily merrily, life is but a dream....
This situation is unreal. It seems like a bad dream. I feel displaced. The lines of reality are blurred. Nothing is as it seems with her, and never was. The extent of her lies is unknowable. I don't know that I really know her, or ever knew her. Its unsettling to know that most of what she portrayed to me over the years was a fake narrative. Equally unsettling is not knowing or grasping any useable notion of why she decided to treat me this way. I was supposedly the only man she ever truly loved, and the only man who ever valued her enough to expect better behavior and standards from her. 6 years, and all I could say about her is that I don't trust trust her because of the constant lying. I look back and all I see is a cycle of her double standards, dismissiveness, deception, and overall disrespect. All of this was to perpetually punish and provoke me (or any male in her life) in order to provide herself with a fresh supply of "permission" (justification) so she could feed her impulses feeling no guilt, but done so with a warped sense of justice and victory over yet another 'man" who was obviously out to destroy her and take advantage of her. Her method of 'protecting herself and her heart" was to assume the worst of a potential mate to justify inflicting damage while feeding those perverted impulses/appetites . She loved to mistreat me in ways I couldn't see clearly, but I sure felt it unmistakably and consistently. It was all about her winning and never feeling vulnerable. Just sick. Terrible way to live , terrible outlook on life. I know I can do better. So I'll continue to row, row, row, my boat...
Great video, especially the part with dropping water. This is the way how my narcissistic mother torturing me living above me and jumping on my head. Never know when she will jump and make that awful noise.
How do you go back to the person you used to be before the narcissist, if your entire being only knows life with one? I don't know who I am or ever was to go back to her. I was raised by a narcissistic parent, sexually molested by a narcissistic grandfather and great uncle, married my first covert narc "high school sweetheart" who was also physically abusive and to escape him was "rescued" by a master covert narcissist that I never saw coming. He controlled me for nearly 30 years, because I knew no differently. But even now, sitting here "free" and alone, who am I and will I ever know? How am I to trust any choices I make, especially when I've chosen so poorly in the past? Not everyone has a before the narc self to go back to and maybe I won't like who I really am anyway.
Even after your done with it, these insights prove to be fascinating education. It would have been a challenging career choice.
Every time I watch her videos I think the same thing. She has a unique perspective approaching this hell.
@@blrenx Imho it's like any occupation or experience that requires 'continuing education'. As long as you wean to genuine personal interest that get you back to where you belong. In normalville. Obsession vs. progression. All the best.
Invisible abuse can scar the soul in its piercing depth
A disturbing thing they do is "set you up for failure". I have been in situations in the past where someone seems to have either offered to or been assigned to do something that included me. Some things that have resulted is : I told him he must of forgot to show up. He knew were were expecting him (not at all) why wasn't he ready? Oh, I didn't know he was out of town and scheduled ( a very) important meeting thinking he would be here. And the list goes on. They even will try to "insert" themselves into others relationships, friendships etc. pretending to be "oh so helpful" but instead setting things up for "near misses", embarrassments, missed opportunities etc. It seems like a cult since some phrases seem to be common like "right under nose" "You will never get back what we took from you" "we made you look like a complete a-hole" "We made it look like your fault". These are many times one or 2 narcissists that get together and have "fun" playing with the lives of other people.
Was married to a vicious, sadistic narcissist and I think most likely psychopath.
My brain has changed, I felt my brain “crack.”
I was suicidal and would go numb and shut down, sit in a chair and not move.
I am so confused and I know I am
so ill from the abuse.
I hope I can get help and be able to heal.
I am so thank to learn about this stuff. My stepfather used to call me brain damaged and he tried to strangle me to death but luckily my mom pulled him off me. Later she said that never happened. I have attached people that are abusive. Now I am trying to spot them before they spot me
So much truth! Thank you so much. This so describes my life.
TY for bringing hope, understanding
& recovery thru sharing
experience & education
TY 4 shining yr light 🌟🙏❤️
Thank you for covering cptsd so thoroughly ! I am learning a lot.
2:59 This is what they mean when they say "Death by a thousand paper cuts". The abuse is so subtle and covert? That it flies under the radar and causes distress and eventual CPTSD. Which is what i have comes to term with. I have been the victim of Narc abuse for many years, where i more or less developed SLDD and CPTSD.
My god what a brilliant commentary - thank you
Wow the water torture makes so much sense! My Mom did this to me. I was in a constant state of anxiety waiting for abuse. I heard you say once that they keep you at a level 9 so they can easily push you to a level 10 whenever they want to.
You're so right, they change the rules constantly too! You can never satisfy them, unless you are totally miserable that is. My Mom would smile her brightest on days when I was really upset and in terrible fibro pain from the stress of her behavior. She would even seem lighter and more bouncy on her feet.
Thank you so much Michelle, this here is so much good information on trauma, around 4 years ago my mobile home had a gas leak and it blown up with me in it,thank God 🙏 I made it out, I have a pit bull and he's really helped me,but I really understand what you are saying, later on I have had to deal with a covert narcissist, and everything your saying is spot on, thanks again for your information 👍
Covert Narcissists use your past failed relationships to gaslight you to justify their poor treatment of you.
That "drop of water" is a constant drip of emotional acid.
Thank you so much Michelle for talking about covert narcissism and how it affects people who are targets of such abuse, very helpful. I would love to hear you talk about how covert narcs use the Karpman drama triangle as a tool to abuse and how to not fall into that trap!
Oooo love the background staging!!!
You have described the situation brilliantly
And how does one heal if this is a parent- whom now is targeting your child. Where is the justice department at on emotional psychological mental abuse-?
I was told by my ex that I was never satisfied and always upset, it was so weird. There was nothing I could do to convince him that I wasn't who he kept telling me I was.
He must have been constantly triggered back to his childhood where he thought he could never be enough.
Then he started telling the kids that they had all sorts of nefarious motives for when they were just being kids.
It was abusive and anytime we tried to explain that him telling us we all wanted to harm him was not true and also harmful to us, he claimed it was PTSD from his childhood and so we had to be the ones to never trigger him.
(Which was impossible, because most of the triggers happened at his work and he would take them out on us)
I actually have a diagnosis of PTSD from the assaults in that relationship, but he used the language of mental health against everyone.
I saw a nice statement on You Tube about projection:
"I am not who you think I am. You are what you think I am".
Excellent Video Michele. Thank You had a break through moment. Your awesome!!
Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time energy and sincerity. This is all very much real and it's listening to souls like yourself who see the malicious ways of these narcissists.. and how deep the abuse goes that helps me move through this in my power. It's abuse on unseen levels and indeed complex to work through but with awareness, it will be worked through. I appreciate you and all the knowledge you share 💓
Valuable information
Must hear for survivors.
Thank you
I know with my husband I'd get praise of small accomplishments that I did at times, to then immediately the next day get criticized and emotionally punished for not doing something as simple as dishes even if you've been severely sleep deprived. It makes you feel crazy and like you don't know what to do, or are ever good enough, even harder when you've got mental illness
Omg you summed up my life. I never could explain well what my mother did. You gave two examples of what she did, along with using God & law, age, gender, sexuality, my lack of intelligence, while boastful of others, against me.
Only thing people noticed was my reaction, not the result or said I being too sensitive, when left to get better, I was mocked about leaving and will have no support. If we went to doc for mental therapy, she immediately undermine what I would say or give her opinion. If told teachers or friends they say she too sweet or your mom is biologically wired to love and dote on you or at least you have one, or you ungrateful. Or compare it to orphans or another household. Eventually I didn't say too much. Until one day when dealing with another friends mom and her son in dining room while over phone I was finally vindicated. Moments after she came by the house all pleasant. His mother was giving me a lecture about women and mothers, and said I must be mindful. She called my cell. Since my phone suck's with volume, it was on speaker and at full volume. My mothers venom started to show, I tried to warn her I am not alone and save her image, she a Narcassist have to have the final and only word. Friends mother starts to have a change of heart. For me the damage was done on all parts. Them trying to silence me and lecture than understand and hear me, made them in my mind the enemy. Whether they had finally been enlightened to all I said. Of course there was no proof, but I thought they would understand their friend is hurting. Tried to tell my grams, she waters it down to and compares it to me being unwell or odd, or unappreciating. All the while she might want to see me or visit and wonder why I'm antisocial and never happy. Says I just need medication.
Heard that throughout my life. I need to be doped up for you to tolerate me.
I always said the covert is the worst. My dad was and I think my sis is one too.
Dad was overt, used physical intimdation with some verbal.
Sis I believe uses a combination.
The other thing what I remember her doing is when it came to wanting something like lunch money for school, she gave the impression that if I didn't need it, I wouldn't take it off the table. No she didn't say it was there, but it was the right amount on table. If I did pick it up without asking I am a theif, and finally if I call to ask, you are a dummy because you know that was for your lunch stop holding me up is her favorite line.
Thank you.
First off you’re awesome and second I wouldn’t truly probably accept that people can heal totally and move forward from this but…you and a few others out there I’ve watched have obviously got it figured out. I try and try and some days it’s better but it can go South quick and last for days or weeks where you can’t thing straight and are paranoid for good reason and the worse is nobody or very few will believe you or even entertain the idea. Some stalk you and ghost you or act totally different for no reason and you know they bought into some nonsense probably spread by the couple narcs or psychopaths or hybrid between the two. I don’t say this lightly and don’t care if they see this someday bc they know who they are and what they are and the world needs brought up to speed on these types quickly and they sort of are because of the courage and tenacity you and a few others have shown. I need to get past the TH-cam stage lol and I do sometimes but yeah I may be signing up for whatever you have bc about at wits end and very frustrating bc I was never like this and I do not plan on it. So that was a rant as I do occasionally but if you read this thank you and for the victims that know what this stuff is about God bless you bc I know you’ve been through it bad very bad probably in the most heat ripping ways ever and it may still be happening. So keep on going. I would use stronger words but trying to keep things appropriate. All of you rock. These people suck to the tenth power and nobody that hadn’t already been educated directly, would likely ever see them coming. Spread the word.
"Getting my brain to rewire" is exactly what I need to do! That's New terminology to me. How does one do that?
Even God warned us about consistent verbal abuse in this verse Proverbs 27:15 KJV
A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike.
Plus you exemplified it when you talked about the water drop torture. 👍
It's the little arbitrary consistent things that have been driving me crazy. I need to figure out a way to heal and rewire my brain while I'm still in this relationship: because of my young children still at home.
Yeeess! I'm familiar w that text! Honestly Keith you should join my Thrivers School of Transformation - it's all about creating your life despite what you've been through or are still going through =)
Thank you, again, @@FromSurvivingToThriving. I'll see if I can figure out a way to do that. 😃
@@keithmace1 are you going to leave after the children grow up I'm sorry your in this situation
yes, that's so true & so helpful*.... -Thank you*
I literally just described my suspected covert narc parent as erosion to my husband.
Its not something always big that you notice,you are just slowly being chipped away.
Great analogy 👏👍
Thank you for your videos. I relate, understand, but feel paralyzed. Nine years in RelationShit with this man. I am sure if it were 100 years ago, I would be in an asylum.
Thank you
Thankyou so much. Love you michelle! 💕
I have had physical abuse from a covert Narcissist. Yes, manipulation and trauma, but they can be physically dangerous too.
Thank you so much ❤
It's death of a thousand cuts also!..this abuse also is actually science based it also shrinks rhe amigdala and hippocampus and constantly flushes cortisol thru your system in the F3/4 response..which is Flight Freeze Fight or Fawn ( people pleasing behaviour )...this will lead to adrenel fatigue syndrome and other physical illnesses.! thank you sweetheart you look beautiful and healthy....much love 💜
Yeeess! Exactly - so well said =) And the thing is - the amygdala and hippocampus don't simply 'spring back' we have to do the inner work to create that healthy balance!!! Trauma does not just 'go away' like the common cold...
This is what I experienced working in Sandiego with covert narcissism.
Double bind. He gives me very vague "assignments". I think he does it SO THAT no matter what I do he can find something wrong with it. He does fly into rages though. About every 3 weeks I make him, as he says, "lose my shit". In between he mostly ignores me.
What's also bad with these narcs is they are very clever at figuring out what will particularly torture you - so that can be even more difficult to explain to others.. and it's true the inconsistencies of when the abuse happens make you question yourself more, wondering what was different that time.. I remember a certain relief near the break up of my last relationship when I saw abusive behaviour pure and simple and knew it was not my fault. That point took me years to ger to. What's good in life in general - hope for the future, optimism about change, seeing the good in others can lead to terrible pain when applied to a relationship with a narc.
omg the milk example hits way too close to home.
Hi, I’m wondering how do you differentiate “low self-esteem” as a trigger to the narcissist brain, from sincere humility, or a deep feeling of sorrow/remorse resulting from a wrong life choice, or action, resulting in guilt. I hope you understand my question.
so true
perfect
I had a bad experience with a subscriber online where they posted a sexual comment on my video, I went to their channel and asked for respect, then he got angry and made a video talking to his subscribers to go to this other woman's video and help him out. I didn't realize it at the time, but what he was attempting to do was coercion. That traumatized my brain, so when a guy at open mic night a decade later made a comment to me about knowing about stuff, it made me freeze up and I felt like I can't talk about it with any of my friends because they are more sexually liberal than I am and they don't understand what the big deal is. It's just that sexual comments are very triggering for me.
I’m just wondering something about an event that happened last Friday and how I felt. I found out on Friday my ex narc has found my ex husband who was very abusive to my children and I. My ex has been trying to destroy me since I left him 3 years ago. When I found out my brain seemed to shut down. I couldn’t move and after a while I was walking around in a sort of daze. Couldn’t think clear , my speech seemed delayed and felt a whole had opened up. I suffer from depression and anxiety but with everything I’ve gone through is this ptsd ?? Comments are welcome to help me xxxx
Does Michele or anyone know how of tips how to support your child (pre teen) who has witnessed and experienced psychological abuse from narc parent but we still see the parent (too difficult to cut off completely)
Is it possible to have C-PTSD
From a narcissist. And not have any
flash backs ??
This is really interesting.
Not sure if my mother has NPD or just a comorbidy.
I'm a man in my forties. My mother has just been into my room 4 times in 1 hour. Knocks once and storms in.
First time ultra nice enquiring how I was after I told her I loved her but would limit my time with her due to my ugly rages and heart palpitations.
2nd time she brought sheets. 3rd more bed linen.
4th shows me signs of low blood circulation on her hands. Lucky she didn't say the usual " don't worry I'll be dead soon" or I might have raged again lol.
what DAY is the call every week and at what TIME & TIMEZONE - need to do an International date/time calculation
Excellent vid! My only question, are covert and malignant narcissism the same?
So glad the video is helpful for you!!! Malignant narcissists can be covert or overt
@@FromSurvivingToThriving Thank you for the clarification.👍
I went to get a blood test done years ago now, and it was the kind where they took my blood and filled it up in test tubes and I was always very interested to watch this being done because I found it fascinating. Anyway, this one time the woman couldn't find the vessel in my arm and once she had it in she really wiggled it about and and at the time I wanted to swear really really badly but my mom was in the room and by the time I was done and I came out I nearly ended up on the floor, I had to sit on a bench in the middle of town until I thought I felt okay again. Well, I thought I was okay after a bit and when we walked into somewhere, some sort of doctors office for my mom I started getting hot flushes and was ready to pass out again. Now, years on, I cringe, I'm a big baby, I get squeemush a lot easily and just the thought of having any jab has made me worce. I've even said to nurses "now, do you know what you are doing?"
I know it only happened that one time with that one nurse but it's - I guess it's traumatised the brain. I can't help it..
IS it possible that the grid of Narcissists IS having An hidden weapon
anyone know if theres a coupon code for the thrivers school of transformation
Michelle, may I email you a question?
What does it mean to break down psychologically?
Michele Lee, what do you think about that new study out relating to eyebrows and narcissists ?
I haven't heard... I'll have to look that up!!!
@@FromSurvivingToThriving Yeah, think it has been out since 2018.
Its possible for someone who has just discovered a moment of extreme happiness, contentment and peace can trigger a CPTSD reaction in them.
Which is strange because it might be percieved by others as a moment of madness and trained professionals might regard or automatically suspect it as a symptom of mania or manic episode.
What's the matter mate? Well,,, nothing much really, I'm just feeling good for a moment. 😐
How true could this actually be?
Is a covert narcissist the same as a closet narcissist?
❤❤❤
🥰🥰🥰
👍
💜♾🙏🏼🕉
Michele, please put a Trigger Warning in the title. The scene of domestic violence to a mother and child completely caught me by surprise and was extremely triggering for me. I want to be able to forward your videos, but not without a Trigger Warning in the titles.
There are a couple of youtubers on this subject, who suddenly start yelling, for emphasis, in their videos. I have to turn them off, because it triggers CPTSD. I can't believe only one other person, who replied to my comment on that video, felt the same way. I guess the way these youtubers were raised, to them it's just normal speaking to suddenly yell. It's what they're used to. They should know how it would affect people though. I remember when I first called a therapist's office, and they spoke to me in a soft, sweet voice as if they were talking to a child - I guess because they don't know the mental state of the person on the other end of the line. In a way it seemed strange to be talked to like that, but mostly it gave me a very calm, peaceful feeling. Everyone should talk this way!
Excuse me. NarCISM? Is it how narCISSISM to be pronounced?
No, you pronounce it as the latter you mentioned, it's just more complicated so some simplify it.
Hi Michele! Thank you for all your wonderful videos! Can you give me your website for coaching classes please? Thank you!
The link is in the description 😉
@@jocelyne.5960 thank you
@@tracieflesher5181 you’re welcome 😁