What does it take to make the gays love you?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:07 What IS an icon?
04:34 Where DO gay icons come from?
10:09 Representation or Appropriation?
19:55 So, who gets to be a gay icon?
Is Taylor Swift Queerbaiting?- • Is Taylor Swift Queer ...
The secret gay language: Polari- • The Secret LGBTQ+ Lang...
Khadija Mbowe on Digital Blackface (and AAVE)- • Digital Blackface...is...
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Sources
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www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/judy-...
content.time.com/time/subscri...
www.billboard.com/music/music...
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• How Madonna References...
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www.huffpost.com/entry/madonn...
www.vogue.com/article/oral-hi...
daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/...
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i am genuinely heartbroken that Lady Gaga's known bisexuality is erased as mere allyship here. she wasn't been *for* us, she *is* us.
We can cry together. Mother Monster is often not heard even when seen :(
All of this.
Soo, yes anyone can say they're bi cause they think it's the cool thing to do - & yes she doesn't have to prove anything to anyone - but years back Barbara Walter called her out in an interview by asking if she'd ever dated a woman - the answer was no. Maybe Jessica happened to see that interview
...YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DATE "BOTH SEXES" TO BE BISEXUAL. if fact, no one is required to have sex to know their sexuality! there are lesbian, gay, bisexual, and ace virgins, are they invalid?
please, i invite you cordially to gai kaken offen yom, darling.
@@AM711 You're just further perpetuating bi-erasive ideas with this comment. You can still be bisexual even though you've only dated men... or women... or no one at all 🤷♀
Darlin Jessica, YOU ARE INDEED a Gay Icon!
No debate ❤ Gay icon indeed
gay icon indeed 🫶
She isn’t
lesbian icon???? maybe idk... but why are non gays saying she is.... 💅
fyi... homegirl could never... not with that look... bye Dorothy 👋
Judy Garland loved gay men so much, she married two of them
😳
Wtf. 😂I know few straight women like that. They love gay men so much ...😂😂😂. Im straight though but I wonder y somtimes .
Queen behavior
Lavender marriage?
@@zitronentee It would have been if she knew about her husbands' secret affairs prior to the weddings, but what people who knew her said and wrote tend to show that she only found out later
Step One: Be Fabulous
Step Two: Be Kind
Step Three: Be Enduring
Step Four: Appreciate Your Fans
Step Five: Overcome Hardship and Keep On Going!!!
Pretty much
so Jessica is 1000% a gay icon :)
Shes a women, she sings and the lgbtq+ community loves her
not me thinking Joline
Step two alone is such a giant and important step. You'd be surprised how much you can do by just being kind. And... that's kinda sad?
so the Greek god Apollo is a gay icon
About Lady Gaga, she talked about feeling atracted to women in several stages of her carrer, as well. Poker face is about laying down with a man and thinking about a woman, or when talking to a fan who asked if she was her type, she said yes. There are many other situations, I'm sure the internet has a compilation for that. Even so, she seems reluctant to label herself as bi or pan, but I get the impression that it might be case because of how much people policy other's sexualities.
She’s openly said that she’s bisexual, but she’s not said that she’s LGBTQ+/queer, for the reasons you’ve said. Sounds like from what she’s said that she’s heteroromantic (things about her only having been in love with men) and gets a lot of flack from people for calling herself bisexual because of that :/ people just suck, we (*cough* cishets mostly) need to stop policing language like that. I’m glad she’s widely welcome in the community whether she chooses to use the language of queer/LGBTQ+ or not, though
It's most likely her bisexuality isn't 50/50. It's kinda like a bi cycle/bicycle( no pun intended). Bisexuality isn't always going to be 50/50 for everyone. I genuinely used to think I was always 50/50, but it turns out I'm 70/30.
Yes. Lasy Gaga has many times confirmed her bsexuality. As Jessica, her dear queer self, has said we dont get to define otthers sexualities, and too much speculation can be harmful.
I absolutely love Lady Gagas response to Anderson Cooper when those stupid rumors went around that she was intersex. As a lesbian woman on the interex spectrum, I am unashamedly a Little Monster.🖤
Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears
Yeah her bisexuality gets so often erased simply for the fact that her public long-term relationships have been with men.
And these rules are pretty much the same when you look at gay icons outside the Anglosphere as well! As a little gay Mexican-American boy, I loved Gaga and Britney but also Gloria Trevi, Selena, Alaska, and other Hispanic women who were unapologetically camp
Gloria Trevi and Thalía >>>>>>>
“Vogue” is one of my favorite songs when I was younger. 😊 A possible gay icon singer back in the 1960s was Leslie Gore (she was the one who sang “It’s My Party and I’ll Cry if I Want To”)….she sang about guys but she was a lesbian.
Lesley Gore was 100% a gay icon at the time!
You Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore is such a powerful queer song! I get goose bumps even thinking about it 😂
She didn't write the songs, they were just given to her, and if I'm correct she didn't know she was a lesbian until her 20s, she was 17 when she made her breakthrough with it's my party.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but you seem to have left out the fact that Lady Gaga is bisexual herself. (One of us! One of us!)
Madonna and Judy are too!
Her thumb nail looks like she is pledging allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the icons
Of gay people worldwide
And to the fabulous
Upon which they stand
Our souls, united as one
Adoring Judy and Gaga forever.
I suppose this is a lesser thought of gay icon, but ABBA's Agnetha Fältskog has a large gay following, and released a song to honour this in ther album A. She's not so outspoken as some, but she lives a much quieter life than some too, so I can't speak on her personal views, but I can very much see why she had a gay following!
I'm a life long ABBA fan, and I remember as far back as primary school being told that only gay people liked ABBA. I would say "but I like them and I'm not gay". Turns out I was wrong to use myself as an example 😂 I'm also in my mid 20's now, and Agnetha is 100% still my celebrity crush!
Add Donna Summer, Sylvester and Jimmy Somerville to that list.
I'm bi, and I never knew ABBA had any queer connection, but I have always been a fan. It's great to find out that many artists who I have liked since my childhood (not just her, but also P!nk, Lady Gaga, Madonna, Freddy Mercury, Lily Allen, Elton John, Rick Riordan, etc.) are supportive and liked by the community.
that's weird. i'm 50 & from Long Island. me and my friends were mostly listening to alternarock and heavy metal, you know, Nirvana and Guns N Roses etc. but we all also liked ABBA Gold and the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack.
@@perfectallycromulent I'm from the UK, and I was a teen in the early 2010's. Most of the people I considered "friends" at the time were the same ones who said liking ABBA was gay 😂 And you would hear it elsewhere too, I heard people on the TV say they were called gay back in the 80's and 90's in the UK for liking ABBA. It was quite uncool here for a long time unfortunately, but their comeback and Mamma Mia 2 seem to have really changed that for the better!
Oh, unfortunately some people do think racism is new. One of my grandma's loved to 'reminisce' about "Before racism was invented". She was talking about 1940s and 50s America.
my grandmother loved racism too much to reminsce like that. the last few years, after she completely lost her mind, she wouldn't even allow tropical fruit in her house, because white people were not from those places in her reasoning. and i mean oranges and lemons from florida, not mangos or anything remotely exotic.
@@perfectallycromulent oh yeah, my grandma was like that about some other things. She wanted "open season" on marginalized groups she didn't agree with. Yes, open season mean's exactly what you think 🤬).
In addition to Lady Gaga, Madonna is also an old-school gay icon who is queer herself.
I was dismayed to find out that Lady Gaga has collaborated with Autism Speaks. Many celebrities’ intersectionality has its limits when it comes to the disabled community.
It’s unfortunate that this organization gets so much coverage that well meaning ppl support it thinking it helps the autistic community sigh
the test is really if she stops doing so once informed by well, people telling her about how its , abusive. Sadly they have good pr.
Oh my gosh - you have EDS, too? Well, you are more than just a queer icon to this little old bisexual over here, but you are an EDS icon too, because I am part of the zebra herd as well! Representation really does matter - seeing you out here, doing what you love and thriving, and knowing that you have EDS, that's honestly really inspirational. Thank you 💖
Ashley Gavin is another lgbt person with EdS she talks about it on her podcasts WHGS and Chosen Family
@@Raddiebaddie thanks for the tip! I'm gonna have to check them out and give them a listen! 🥰
History has always been my favorite subject, but I've never been taught anything accurate because of that darn kid friendly filtering! "They were roommates" yeah yeah, anything but gay. Your videos have helped me learn so much more about real history!! As a kid, even with filtering my favorite historical figure was definitely Susan (No idea how to spell her name) B Anthony!
You're videos are honestly really helping me open up to more people!! I think my favorite is slowly shifting.
I get that. I learned the story of Rock Hudson and my partner was surprised to learn Rock was gay, even though he knew Rock died of AIDS
I think you combined Susan B Anthony and the children's book character Junie B Jones 🤭 i love them both!
@@amandaswigert5998 I JUST REALIZED MY FINGERS IMMEDIATELY HIT JUNIE INSTEAD OF SUSAN
Alexander and Hephaestion were just besties who spent their lives together! Just because they were totally devoted to each other and Alexander lost his mind after H's death doesn't mean they were gay! History is full of totally het bros who were close like that. (Source: Florida textbooks)
Never thought i'd ever hear jessie say stuff like "work" or "no tea no shade" but here we are😂 a very cool crossover for my drag race loving self❤ also just a little side note, the j in labeija is a "sh" sound😊
This is great! This same phenomenon occurs with K-pop groups and queer women worldwide. It's really amazing to go to a concert and realize that there are thousands of people who feel like you do about an icon from the other side of the world.
Great video! Kinda surprised Dolly Parton wasn’t mentioned, probably my personal fav gay icon
Being a huge fan of OH, I’ve also heard that Judy Garland herself was probably bisexual and allegedly had at least one female partner.
Don't forget Beatrice Aruther who played Dorothy from The Golden Girls. She and 3 others were gay icons too here in the USA
Jessica speaks the truth at the :02 mark!
Hey look! You have little gay icons!!!!😂😂😂
@@deviantash icons of a gay icon..
@@jennifers5560 Only the best!
I'd love a video essay from you talking about Pose 🏳️🌈
It was a great show!
I loved this exploration of what makes a queer icon Jessica! But as Jessica points out, these fabulous, musically talented women who are frequently mentioned as icons for the LGBTQIA+ community tend to represent only the interests of one letter in the acronym. So my question for the class is this; who are icons for the other members of the queer community? Are there Lesbian icons? Trans icons? Ace icons? Please share, as I would love to be introduced to people, both real and fictional, who've become a queer icon for you
I think if you frequent any of these queer subcultures online, you'll know some of its icons. Gay male icons often end up having further reach both because of the general visibility of that community and because of the prominence of gay clubs as a gathering place for all of the LGBTQIA+ community. What gets played in gay clubs, lipsynced in drag shows, etc. can become widely known and associated with queerness (and us queer women can get just as into Carly Rae Jepsen as our own less-club-friendly icon Hozier).
as a trans person, I agree. For example, Rupaul may be a gay icon but he is not a trans icon. He has said unfavorable things regarding transgender people, especially trans women. Despite this, he is still widely accepted as a gay icon. I have always found this a bit disheartening.
One fictional trans icon is Danny Phantom from the Nickelodeon cartoon of the same name. He's a kid that has ghost powers/can turn into a ghost after a lab accident... with ghost hunter parents he's hiding his other [after] life from. Also his arch-nemesis tried to clone him one time and the only stable clone was a girl who appeared a few years younger than him (who he adopted as a cousin), so there's also that (and other paralells here and there that were absolutely not intended by the creator lol). I actually have a print of his ghost form recolored for trans pride! Mulan from Disney's animated movie for the whole- actually basically everything. Crossdressing and gender-blending being huge parts of the story. The entire song "Reflection" resonates very well with transgender/genderqueer themes.
There's definitely characters that get called "ace icons" or "aromantic icons" but much more casually, though this might also have to do with aspec erasure and allonormativity (assumption that most people are both allosexual and alloromantic aka not ace or aro) preventing these takes from getting a lot of traction, not helped by gay/lesbian coding having a lot of overlap with ace or aro coding (eg. not being interested in conventional romance as defined by heteropatriarchal standards). But one character aspec (aro and/or ace) folks love is Luke Skywalker. Fulfilled by strong platonic bonds and working to make the world a more harmonic place, and some of his best friends are actual robots (I've gone on too long to go on a tangent about the associations between robots and aspec people but I think folks can figure it out). As a work of fantasy, dressed up as science fiction as it is, the heroic knight Not ending up with the princess (or some kind of clever farmer's daughter) at the end was a huge shake up in the status quo re: fantasy fiction.
I may have missed it, but does Prince have Icon status, as he scores 100% on a few scales like flamboyant dress (he makes EJ look like a London City Banker.) Does he rate?
I really enjoy your presentations. I'm a pan trans man, and I find you very well spoken on the issues
Reminds me of when there was an ad for a golden girls party in a gay club, I didn't know how to explain it to my bf lol.
I had a friend who defined it rather abruptly…but not wrong: “Gay men love women who yell”. The truly talented, almost super-human belters like Judy Garland, Liza Minnelli, Barbra Streisand and Ethel Merman. Then you have the powerful actresses like Joan Crawford and Bette Davis. The talent, strength, and vulnerability combo meal are what I enjoy. Everyone who appreciates talent should look at old as well as new…and they did it with talent rather than auto tune back then.
I haven’t watched yet, but I already love the title !
The example of Rupaul is interesting and more complex, I think, than what's here. Much like Ellen, a gay celebrity with undeniable importance in the history of queer representation, but who has also done plenty to alienate people in the community as well (fracking to labor issues to discriminatory statements, although there has been some degree of apology). Drag Race is inarguably important to queer culture and as a platform for queer artists, but there's plenty to be said about reality tv exploitation, the handling of racist pasts and abusers on the show, and discrimination (remember all those years when out trans women weren't even allowed on? Or compare the treatment of the Vixen to Scarlet Adams).
Tldr, most people I know who love Drag Race do so mostly in spite of Rupaul... obviously it wouldn't have gotten this far without him, but it's about the queens for us now, and hoping he and the producers won't mess things up too much.
Rupaul has done more for the queer community than simply create a television show. He has been engaged with queer issues for decades going as far back as protesting the don't ask don't tell policies in the Clinton era. Ellen has never had the same level of engagement with community issues to my knowledge.
@@claudiavontriet sure, agree. Just meant large positive cultural role, then some large disappointments for queer fans later on.
Yep ellen , should really be, well now at least frowned upon.
Maria Callas was one of the first gay icons who came to my mind. La Divina. Anyone else?
I remember reading about Belle Époque dramatic sopranos and mezzos who had lesbian followings.
There are an awful lot of trouser roles for mezzo.
And the odd lesbian character, such as the Countess Geschwitz from Alban Berg's Lulu.
Edith Piaf too.
Yes!
18:14 Yes! Finally confirmation that Jessica has Dorian Gray syndrome!
The secret is out!
i've fallen down into a rabbit-hole of this channel and i dont plan on getting out, love your work
Joan Baez released a song about gay romance between two young gay men in 1977 titled The Thief and The Alter Boy. She’s been a gay icon imo for a long time.
This lesbian can tell you that Joan was a very good kisser ...
@@titichartay7216🤩
@@titichartay7216 Now "that's* a flex.
I truly love your content. You always make me so happy watching your videos. You’re most definitely my gay icon.
Dolly Parton was the first to come to mind, but Judy Garland, Cher and Lady Gaga came right after. But you're definitely a gay icon too !
If anyone is interested in diving further into the the LaBaiga situation, Matt Baum has a great vid discussing “Paris is Burning” and covers the whole incident with Crystal LaBaiga (other resources posted there too 😊)
Traits to have as a Gay icon:
Talent
Signature style
Campy
Flamboyant
Shady
I always enjoy watching your videos because you are absolutely hilarious and also I learn something new every time
Wait....do the baby gays still consider Dolly Parton a gay icon or is she too old for zoomers? 😢
I’m a Gen Z gay (technically pan and not gay, but in the community) and we absolutely love Dolly Parton.
I've never really listened or bothered too much to get into her stuff but I know a lot of people that still rock with her. So probably? I wouldn't be surprised 🤣🤣
the baby gays don't get to choose, she's a gay icon regardless. and jolene is enough of a meme and she gets enough screentime on drag race i doubt they'd argue.
@@UrQueenJuan I don't think it's necessarily her music but rather her fashion that people love. Well and her personality of course. She's so sweet.
Jessica, I am a 60 year old gay man. YOU ARE MY NEW GAY ICON! 💗
If you've ever had to decipher Cajun language, AAVE is just as valid a language as any other. And no one pretends thatCajun isn't a localized dialect like they try to deny to AAVE.
I thought Lady Gaga was openly bi?
I'm pretty sure she is. A lot of people say shes straight
She is 😊
She is but of course erase her sexuality.
@@kingtrashpanda1570 Bi-erassure really sucks... I hope Jessica Kellgren-Fozard addresses this, because she totally made it sound like Lady Gaga is a straight ally.
@@kingtrashpanda1570bi curiousity .she hasn't said anything that indicates she's bisexual. Many straight women have this phases .bi curiousity is a thing for many non queer women .
The thing about Lady Gaga is that she is a part of the queer community, she is oppenly attracted to both men and women, but some people keep diminishing it because they claim she has only dated men and therefore is lying or simply because of the invisibilization that people who are attracted to more than one gender have faced throughout all history, just like David Bowie, who said multiple times he was bisexual and yet people keept questioning him about it and a lot of people ignores it.
She IS a gay icon ❤
Brilliant!❤
Well put together information about gay icons, by our own gay icon❤❤
Sorry to nitpick but at 5:22 you talk about what queer-coding is and the text on the screen (in the video not in the subtitles) it accidentally says queerbaiting instead.
I'm Australian so one of the first names that comes to mind is Kylie Minogue and to some extent her younger sister Dannii.
My gay icons are in the mcyt community. I dont really follow singers or actors so much, but people like Shubble and Smajor who are openly lgbtq+ and are always so accepting of their fans and friends are wonderful, especially because their fanbase is so much more accessible for them to see and interact with. Im aro/ace, so I really have to look hard to find personal role models, and knowing Shubble is out there living her best life is such a comfort.
Being one of the most aspirational queer voices while also living a life that shows the energy of the "it gets better" campaign is a good start.
Being beautiful, eloquent, sartorially tasteful, and both engaged & engaging definitely makes this middle aged Gay guy agree wholeheartedly! Sending love to you all. ❤🏳️🌈❤️🏳️⚧️❤️
LOL I love that you mentioned Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome! I happen to be a lesbian with EDS who loves a lot of gay icons 😂
EDS- born this way.
Nicely done video…thanks! It is worth mentioning that Gaga is herself bi, though. Also, I PROMISE you that there are plenty of teachers and academics who respect AAVE as a dialect of its own!
Can you do a video on Pantomime Dames like John Inman? I’m American and I feel like there is a lot we could learn!
Madonna was extremely and deeply involved in the gay community off the stage as well. She frequented the gay districts in New York as well as lived in them. She was apart of the culture long before.
She also was taught by ballroom legends themselves as well as having them on her tour and in her music videos.
That said, those who feel she used the culture for her own personal gain are valid. Because in the end intention doesn’t matter, actions do.
This video showed me just how regional my personal gay icons are, cause they're all country singers 😂😂 Dolly, Reba, and Shania
Im a transman living in Malaysia, who transitioned very late in life (ignoring my countries views on being queer) and I just discovered your channel. I've watched 4 videos now, and I am a big fan. Please keep doing what youre doing because there are places in the world where this is very much needed. What's worse is, we are actually a very very intelligent society, but religion has been used as a political tool for as long as I can rememember, so...thank you. I will be checking your channel out frequently.
Going further with Doris Day - Calamity Jane is the most lesbian 1950s mainstream movie I've seen. There is a far more convincing love story with way more chemistry between the two female leads than between Doris Day and Howard Keel, and it would have been a more convincing ending if the 2 women ended up together.
I would LOVE a remake of that with a lesbian ending :D
Wait, Howard Keel was the love interest in both Calamity Jane AND Annie Get Your Gun? No wonder I thought those were the same movie until like last week. (He also has no chemistry with Betty Hutton.)
@@erich6073he sort of has chemistry with Jane Powell in 7 Brides for 7 Brothers, but it probably helps that they don't have much screen time together.
@@sarahgoldberg6614 oh right... I've seen that one too. Didn't realize that was the same guy. In my defense......beard.
@@erich6073 and hair dye
I think the important thing to remember is that back in the day, black and queer spaces.. were the same spaces. Since both groups were marginalized, both found strength in each other :) though I as a (white), young-ish, gay man do feel somewhat perturbed when people start using words like "yaaas b*" or "Slay" outside of queer contexts.
I thought her point was that it's AAVE, not internet slang... I don't think she was saying that Black people shouldn't use AAVE outside of queer spaces if it's been popularized via ballroom and/or Drag Race? That's a take I didn't hear here and haven't heard honestly anywhere.
They never really wish or expected to be a g4y icon, they were turned into it by some people, kinda like a "mockingjay" symbol to represent them ... ❤
Madonna was the only high profile star speaking in our defense in the 80's and 90's. She was bold in her support of the Queer community at a time when we were otherwise being demonized. I will always be grateful to her for that, and am grateful to any other artist who uses their platform to lift us up. It's unhelpful to criticize artists for not doing things in exactly the right way at the time. It ignores the levels of societal acceptance they were navigating, and helping to change, in their time.
What people tend to get wrong about Judy and Stonewall is that, at the time, Judy was seen as more of an icon for older queer men, particularly those born in the 1920s to 1940s. She was of course known by the younger generation, but they had more modern icons. It would be similar to gay men of the 80s idolizing Madonna while gay men of the 2010s idolized Gaga. Not that the decades put a strict limit on who loved who, so take that as a more broad statement. Stonewall didn't happen because elder queers (30+ year olds at the time) were upset. Maybe some were. Maybe some tensions were high. But it was definitely not the main reason. It is important to note that a few newspapers did claim the riot started because of Judy, mostly because they assumed all queer men loved Judy no matter what due to a mix of them not understanding modern queerness, stereotypes, and the presumption that queer men couldn't do anything without being overly emotional and overreacting. Which had a lot to do with society equating gay men with women and projecting elements of misogyny onto them.
The question of what makes someone a gay/queer icon comes down to a lot of bi erasure. Judy was bisexual. Madonna is bisexual, queer, or whatever label she uses now as that's fluctuated over the years. Both of their identities and experiences get swept under the rug. Judy's due to mainstream audiences not wanting to admit their precious little Dorothy could possibly be anything but straight. Madonna because they viewed everything she did, and particularly her bisexuality, as a fad. It's the "she took a dip in the lady pond" idea that gets passed around. It didn't matter that she dated multiple women or wrote songs about falling in love and having sex with women. The press treated it like her wanting attention and treated her relationships as less valid than the relationships she had with men. When you look up lists of her exes you'll see men she went out to dinner with once or dated for a couple of months, but never the women she dated for months or even years. She would be in a full blown public relationships with women and it was ignored or mocked. Similar things have been happening to Gaga since she came out, which was basically from the very beginning of her career.
On another note, The appropriation of Vogue and the aftermath it had on ball culture was covered PERFECTLY in an episode of Pose. I high suggest everyone check it out.
The reason some celebrities, like Taylor Swift, aren't viewed as strongly as gay icons is because they aren't political enough. They don't show up when it matters. They don't speak up about anything until society already changes. Taylor never spoke up for queer rights while she was still seen as a southern belle. Her public support only came after most Americans began to support marriage equality. She'll show up at Pride for all the fun parties, but where is she when the protests happen? Where is she when the murders and suicides happen? Where is she now that hundreds of anti-trans bills are being pushed around the country? Let's not forget her current boyfriend (football guy) has over a decade of incredibly homophobic tweets and used anti-queer slurs only a couple of years ago. How is she truly an ally to us when that's who she's with? Being comfortable dating homophobes makes you complicit in their homophobia.
A lot of straight celebs view queer culture, particularly queer men's culture, as parties and entertainment. They're never here for queer women's culture. They claim to love drag but never support drag kings. They show love to their gay fans but never their bi, lesbian, pan, trans, nonbinary or other fans. Queer folks know who is here for us and who is not. We know when someone is here for fun and when someone is here because they're one of us or a true ally.
I'm not gay myself. But I thought Bette Midler was a gay icon? I'm probably wrong. Just wondering if she did something I haven't heard about.
I think she got her start singing in drag clubs. Sorry if I'm mistaken.
Love you 💜
I think some people do still think of her as a gay icon, but in 2022 she tweeted about how trans inclusive language was stripping women of their rights.
I don’t remember what her response was to the backlash that she got after the tweet.
@@jennifers5560her response was basically pleading ignorance, saying she didn’t realize that the rhetoric she was repeating was coined and propagated by terf and far right transphobes, and that she has always supported the LGBTQ community. But tbh I don’t actually think she’s telling the truth, as the article she retweeted did not mince words or hide behind dogwhistles and was very explicitly anti-trans. There is simply no way she didn’t realize the article was transphobic when it explicitly decried “trans ideology” as “erasing women”.
Yeah, I’m with you, how did she not realize what she tweeted was transphobic?@@SarastistheSerpent
Sad to learn about transphobic comments given her start in New York gay steam baths.
I think it was a gay bathhouse, not a drag club, and Barry Manilow got his start playing the piano there for her.
6:45 Screaming a little bit because I absolutely love DOROTHY PARKER!
Not me reading this comment *as* the line happens
Not me just now pausing between stories on “The Dorothy Parker Audio Collection” (on the audible app), to check my messages before going to bed, and finding your comment!
Mrs Parker is doing some spooky stuff! 😂
As a cis/ace male, Thank You for this!
Jessica is her self the icon
Yes Jess you are the icon ❤🏳️🌈
The funny thing is, in the show"Once Upon a Time" Dorothy (from Oz) is actually a gay character! xD
I had no idea Madonna was a gay icon! As a person who has realised I’m bisexual at the age of 50 it explains why I was obsessed with Madonna back8n the day! X
Honestly it doesn't take a lot. Be kind (and dress well)
It really is as simple as that.
They are fierce strong independent individual with frontier styles, thoughts, opinions and are voice for the voiceless. Mostly women because they understood oppression and are not afraid to break obstacles. We love women differently from straight men.
Thanks
The icons also PERFORM an aspect of stereotyped femininity relentlessly--i think even the subconscious awareness of it being performance strikes a chord with queer audieneces in a heteronormative world.
Jessica is an lgbtq icon! That is a fact
Love you, girl! Jsyk generally latine is preferred over latinx and is fits better within the language
hugely debated in the US inclusive language field, no consensus here beyond using what an individual prefers when writing/talking about that individual. Not sure if there's a clear "right" answer in the UK
This was a fascinating survey course, although mostly based on US Gay Icons. Why no Bette Midler? She started by singing in New York gay bathhouses in the 70's.
Marylin monroe bi icon,lady gaga bi icon,leonard of vinci gay icon,ashley tisdale lesbian icon eternal sharpey
I really really want a video that gives me a detailed watch list of queer and queer coded films from the beginning of time all the way to present day. pls educate me haha
So interesting! I can't help but try to come up with male icons too... help me out, maybe Pete Wentz?
For the NHL fans - definitely travis dermott 🎉
What about taika waititi?
Nobody has mentioned Kate Bush. I think she would be a candidate as gay icon. I don't know if she courted gay fans, but many were attracted to her artistry and stories in her songs. 'Running Up That Hill' is about swapping gender, for instance.
My understanding is that Madonna is bi herself.
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I think Lynne Frederick should be a gay icon. She actively supported gay rights when she was asked about it in 1975. She said (and I quote) “with homosexuality and lesbianism, I just don't think you can put a ban on it. I don't think you can say it's wrong. I think people should live how they want to live. I don't think it should be illegal.”
She was even daring enough to play a sexually fluid character in an episodic of the anthology series Play For Today, where there was even an on screen kiss with her female co-star, Jane Lapotaire. The episode was called “The other woman” and can be seen on amazon prime.
What do you think?
I LOVED Calm Down. Ridiculous criticism by people who aren't ever happy. I loved how campy it was!
You have to be an outcast and feel an affinity with the perspectives.
Pride conquering shame? Brene Brown appears to be entering the chat :D
Literally criminal that Ofra Haza isn't mentioned.
"Yes, there's a very old painting in my attic"! Finally, someone admits it! 😁
Seriously though, thanks for this video. As an ally, I learned a lot!
0:44 dolly
I thought the same thing.
Especially since her looks were supposedly largely inspired by Drag Queens.
💖
But also... What explains the love lesbians show for Hozier?
He sings about women in a way we think about them, while many male singers just objectify us
His lyrics sounds like broken heart spells written by a bayou witch in the late 1800s. How could we not love him?
The representation and visibility Madonna brought and still brings to the community is unmeasurable. She has shown us support since day one and continues to do so. The dancers featured in the Vogue video are from the ball community and she even took them on tour during the Blond Ambition, giving them a platform and visibility. Not to mention everything she did to raise awareness and fight against Aids. To even question her alliance is crazy. She is the ultimate gay icon.
The late Rue Maclanahan explained it well on why her character on the golden girls Blanche was loved by gay men because once she asked a gay fan why Blanche is a gay icon and he replied: “ are you kidding?!, we (gay men) all wanna be her.”
It’s about wearing great clothes, have a sassy character and men magnate.
i swear that i say this with no hate - even after having been a bit dragged as a madonna fan. i don't leave this video with a comprehensive vision of what constitutes a gay icon. and i do leave with a good sketch of what constitutes a judgmental person.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
0:34 oh i was thinking of PJ Harvey….
This is so interesting.. until this video, I hadn't really realised that when someone says gay icon, I basically only think of icons that gay men fan over, that maybe then have centre stage at lgbtq events... But that's not necessarily what queer women would consider iconic... And honestly, I feel a bit sad about that.
If I think about lesbian icons, I don't really have anyone in mind.. except sapho, most of the archetypes for queer women that come to mind, are groups of women, or types of women, like, some of the black and white cinema women, some of the black jazz women, some of the London leather dykes, some of the Californian music festival women, or Dinah shore women, or hippy women or like some indigenous folks I know about but don't know "of" as individuals..
I'd love to hear a video like this all about lesbian or bi or pan women or queer folks.. but I'm not even sure any of us could recognise them as icons, even though I'm sure we would all admire them as iconic for their strength and bravery and awesomeness
When I was socially active, I used to read frequently about lesbian icons and occasionally about those for other letters. It's not all sunshine for the G. We aren't allowed to have anyone all to ourselves; everyone else claims a piece, whereas icons for any other letter carry a clear label Not For Us.
Is holzier?? dunno great musician thats, really good.
@@seto749 because y’all are the only letter that’s a little mainstream. keep it in perspective. you having to “share” an icon with other people is a lot better than having no representation of your own.
@@babs_babs No; we don't want to be told whom we supposedly "worship" by the mainstream. Every group has its own icons; the mainstream recognition of them does us no good. If I had a euro for everyone I knew who thought growing up that he couldn't be gay because he disliked Cher, I'd have a villa in the north of France.
@@seto749 your point has nothing to do with mine. you have visible representation and visible icons. no one else has that. you dealing with stereotypes is not unique to gay men either.
yas queen the tiny flag!
Jessica is my favorite fancy lady
From a gay man *cough cough*You have to be the following. I have summed it up in 4.
✨iconically talented in such a way in which can’t be denied. All gay icons are extremely gifted human beings.
✨a sense of innocence or vulnerability that caused you overcome those things and be strong
✨you have to have a care free Junoesque
✨you have to have something to stand for and a message to say, this can come through political stances (Madonna, lady gaga etc) to simple comedy (Judy garland, Cher, Liza).
I believe Britney is a gay icon because she had all the attributes that made a gay icon, the beauty, can sing, and dance! Also, Britney herself is a very sensual vulnerable person which a lot of gay men relate to! Her highs and lows mirror the experiences some gay men experience as well! Her resilience is another reason she is considered an icon!