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My 2022 Pan America went in the shop in May under 400 miles on it it went into ‘’limp’’ mode.. it’s the end of August it is still in the shop.. my dealer let me take a 2023 demo bike this summer while I was waiting.. I drove the demo bike like I stole it 1700 miles and absolutely no problems. What a bike.. I hope when I finally get mine back it doesn’t breakdown again
I'm pushing 30k miles on my 21 PA, 2 years in. I have owned a lot of bikes and my PA is my absolute favorite! The bike has been great. It's the only bike I've ever owned that just fit me. I use mine mostly for sport turing but with some light off road. I don't care what kind of bike you want to call it, it has done everything well for me. From commuting to work to beach road cruising to touring the mountains to 250 miles of the Trans American Trail. The OEM battery (IMHO) was/is insufficient for the bike so I replaced mine with a better aftermarket brand, but that's it.. Just regular services.
b.d. what brand battery did you replace the OEM one with. Also what is the CCA rating on the replacement battery. I want to RAndR my OEM battery before fall sets in. Thank you
@@paulwojnar2291 Antigravity ATX12-HD. It's 480 cranking amps. Love it. I've had the battery almost a year. I've heard lithiums aren't great in the cold. I live in the south, the coldest day I've dealt with in my travels was about 25F and I didn't have any issues.
I just got one. It is an amazing motorbike, I just did my 1st long ride on dirt and road. I could not stop smiling. The on demand modes were spot on. Dirt, road, sport, and rain were all used as it was just one of those days in the PNW.
@@WinWebWorks I'm 6'4", with a 34" inseam. The fit is based on not needing to buy or have anything else. The stock seat, pegs and bars put everything at angles that are comfortable to me. I ride with the stock seat in the low position and the stock bars back. I sit "in" the bike, not "on" the bike. My back is straight. No weight on my palms and I sit on my arse, not my taint.
HD dirt glide I needed reliability so passed on the glide went MGV85. No issues. I did enjoy the gift set HD sent me for my deposit. Much respect for how HD responded to the guys stuck on the trail with shredded cams and blown coolant lines.
I bought the Moto Guzzi too, just before Buying the MG I went into the HD Dealership great people 7k difference of out the door price. So I got shafted by MG. The MG does everything that I want it to do. Maybe HD in the Future
Bought a 22 in Oct 22. Few glitches all fixed with software updates. Now with 10k on her she is an amazing bike. I bought for pavement which it is an amazing performer in the likes of the smokies, but once I took it off road I am hooked. Pavement just doesn’t have the thrill.
I have hilariously short legs for my height, and the Pan America is the ONLY off road bike I can ride. I don't mean ride because I can get both feet down lol... I have a couple decades of riding experience and an truly comfortable only getting a few toes down on one foot at a time... And that's all I can get on the Pan America with it's self lowering suspension. I have to commend Harley to that. I'm getting one... It's a FREAKING AMAZING bike. It's REALLY fast.
Don’t get my following words confused, I loved my Pan America. Loved what it did for my ability to ride ALL DAY again. That being said, I had so many issues with the bike. I won’t go into how many cause apparently when I list the issues I experienced, I’m “a liar” because I’m listing every problem talked about “in the forums”. Whatever, let’s just say, I owned it for 12 months and 7 days. It had an amazing amount of issues and eventually a major failure that forced Harley to take it back. Been riding for 25 years (on road) and having owned about every brand available in the USA, Harleys always been my favorite brand but I’m taking a break after the nightmare MY PAN AM (Not yours so don’t get all Emo) turned out to be. Finally getting a 2023 BMW R1250GSA. Never thought I’d get a BMW due to the total douche bags I’ve met riding them, but I’m hoping to break that stigma.
I had a 1250 GSA, great bike with no problems, i now have a 2022 Pan Am and regret it all the way. The most unreliable bike i have ever owned, did not even make it home after purchasing it new. No quality control at all.
Heading toward 15,000 miles on a 2022 PAS. So far so good. Havent had any issues. Road it well into the winter months here in north Pa. Keep it and all 4 of my bikes on smart chargers when not in use. My KLR is the nasty winter ride. I use the PA as a touring commuting bike and it does that very well. Harley definitely needs to : A. Cure and eliminate the electronic and mechanical issues that some machines are having. They are going into 2024 models their fourth year of production. These things should be a thing of the past at this point. B. Not all dealerships are onboard with this machine and not providing service and support to the buying public. These things can kill this before it gains any real traction and go the way of the V Rod and Buell motorcycles. By this time no PA owner should have to retro fit a radiator guard nor a front fender extension. They should come as new. Also no dealer should sell these above MSRP. That should be illegal to begin with. My PAS went out the door at 21,000 USD plus tax,title,Tag and dealer prep . If the Motor Company doesnt address these issues pronto it could be the death knell for what could be a great bike and the gateway to their future in this century. A Harley fan who is also a big fan of all motorized machines on two wheels no matter the type or brand. Have had many and love them all.
Glad to see new Pan Am review content in '23. Most creators i follow moved away talking about this bike after the freebies and hub-bub was over. I'm a street rider and want to get one. I'm not super interested in off road but it would be great touring alternative to the 'glides'. Only all the electronic issues are giving me pause. Seems as you have to really keep a close eye on the battery and keep it on a specific type of tender to keep things in good order. And even then, you'll still be back at the dealer for issues. Hoping harley figures these out.
Was looking for my next bike. Was narrowed down to GS 1250 or Pan America. While a lot of people have received 21' examples with many little gremlins, the overwhelming sentiment was Harley was great to deal with. Living in the Black Hills and having friend that work down at Black Hills Harley, definitely leaning towards the Pan Am. Another HUGE plus is that without exception every large "influencer" like yourself has stressed, Harley not only let you abuse one of their bikes, but also said to not hold back on thoughts/criticisms. That tells me they are behind making this bike as good as they can and are proud of what they are developing.
I’m planning a ride from Michigan to Alaska next summer , after looking at the pan American, bmw gs 1250 , triumph 1200 tiger pro I decided to just ride my Harley ultra limited to Alaska ; I am not comfortable enough to ride all day on the adventure bikes , I’m 5’8 170 it seems you need to be 6’5’” to be comfortable; I’ve gone to pacific coast twice on my ultra limited , idea of something lighter and handle dirt/sandy roads was appealing but can’t handle the trade offs in comfort
While a 975 version is the logical progression for the pan America, I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. I think they have their hands full with the current model and everything else they have going on. I think getting a 975 model that’s capable, looks the part, and is actually lighter, that’s the key….LIGHTER than the 1250? It has to be around 500 lbs or less and that’s a tall order. IMO of course.
Very proud of Harley to do this bike. I don’t like the looks of the front, but I’m getting used to it. Very happy it is selling well. Doesn’t fit my use case either (too big and heavy) but I’d sure take a look at little brother. Thanks for a great video.
I bought a Pan Am Special in 2021, proud of HD to boldly enter a market it had never been in and deliver an excellent first go. Then this …. Instead of building upon the legitimacy of its entry to ADV, HD backtracks to its old self and simply tarts the Pan Am up.
Looked at one 2 months ago to replace my commuter 1st gen KLR 650. I have a 30" inseam, so the thing was super tall and at 550lbs it's a tank. Heck of a bike though. Hopefully they make a 600-700 class bike. There's one in Reno that's black with the HD logo in orange that looks bad azz. Just 29 days till Sturgis for 3 weeks.
I talked to a guy at Road America who walked me through the Pan Am engine with their cut away engine. Interesting engine for sure. I asked about a 975cc version of the Pan Am and when we are going to see it and he said it is no longer in the plans for Harley. And this guy was a Harley Engineer. I was a little sad to hear that. I like the 1250 but I think its a bit bulky for true off road. In my eyes its a touring/trail bike. Offroad.... Id be a little hesitant with a bike that big and heavy.
That's a real shame to hear, I was so looking forward to the Pan Am 975, these full size adventure bikes are simply too big and heavy, what are you going to do if you drop it in snow or mud or sand? I dropped my little KLX250S in a muddy gully and nearly blew a valve trying to get it upright and out of there, I hate to think what would happen if I was stuck under the big Pan Am. Oh well, maybe Harley will reconsider.
I had 2 PA, a 21 and 22, both bought new. As you noted in your video thay are a ball to ride and perfect for the usage you described. That's why i wanted one, along with their lighter weight (as compared to my Road Glide and Softail) and cooler running engine. But on both bikes i had a steady stream of electronic issues, fuel pump replacements and engine oil leakage that reluctantly forced me to get rid of them both, the 21 with 10k miles and the 22 with 2k miles. It spent more time at the dealer than in my garage during my 5 months of ownership.(wish i could have communicated with your engineer friend Terry during that time period!) Would i buy another? You bet if i thoughtt i could trust it. Even with the problems they were easily the most fun i have had in 30 years of riding HDs. So i will wait a year or two and maybe try one out again.Glad you a great time with yours. Just watching you broght back lots of good memories!
Unfortunately my experience is similar. Stator broken, clutch (16,000 miles) fuel pump and wiring harness issues. My dealer has gone to bat for me, but while I’ve had some amazing times on it, it’s left me stranded amd ruined several trips. I’m keeping with it because I just love it so much and I hope after so many miles, I’ve broken already what’s going to break.
I had an unfortunate experience with my ‘21 PAS. When it worked it was best machine I have ever owned. Each time I go into an HD dealer I migrate towards a PA and immediately gravitate towards them. I wanted that bike to be all it could be 100% of the time.
Just this week I spoke with the service manager at my dealer (who knew my history with the two PAs). He said that the 23's are having few mechanical issues. Still numerous computer updates however. There is hope at the end of the tunnel perhaps.
Similar experiences as well, kept a journal of experiences. The dealer has been amazing but after spending time yo-yo'ing between the trail and the dealer I decided to just sit back and wait to see if next gens shake it out. I really want to understand what's going on with them. Great Content though!
i went for the Norden 901. I will say HD has dont loads to shove the Pan Am in your face and I love that they did that bc it shows they want to make a mark in the newly growing old sport of ADV and lord knows they have needed to push the boundaries of the old potato.
The cost comparison really doesn't mean anything because by the time you're finished at the HD dealership with all of the markups and fees, costs are about the same. With costs being the same, BMW becomes the best bang for the buck in terms of quality and refinement. And you can get a low suspension and low seat for the BMW, which makes it comparable if not lower than the PanAm with the adjustable ride height.
Hope gen 2 puts air filter out from under the fuel tank, like under the seat, or the side like KLR. Off road bikes should have easy access air filters and batteries to check and fix on the trail instead of needing the garage tear down to the frame to check , jumpstart, or replace.
Nice video. I rode a KTM 1190ADV R everywhere. Those shows “long way down (round and up)” with Ewan McGregor really made me want adventure in my life! Great to see HD in the sector. Now, I ride big touring bikes. I love my Road Glide Special but plan to buy a BMW R 18 B - seems like BMW is trying to sell Harleys and HD are trying to sell BMW GSAs. Strange times.
I have a PA and my twin brother the ST (stage 2). I use the PA as a sports tourer. On fast rides I can pass him, just. His low rider looks like a Harley and mine looks like a Honda. He has an Ultra and I’ve got a Street Glide too
This was a very good video. Ive followed you over a year now and you are honest in your reviews. The first review i watched was on the FXDR. You were honest and spot on. I re-watched this because i bought another PA yesterday. They are going for a good price. My last one had 0 issue and im looking forward to riding some offroad again.
i looked at the radiator position and laughed and even more when my friends test ride had it clogged with mud and over warning lights started coming on as it over heated
Being a really short person, I love the lower height feature. The Problem is I don't want such a Large and Heavy Bike. I will Probably go with the much more off road capable Yamaha T-7 for less than half of the price. I really could care less about all of the electronic gadgets. HD Share Holders like the Margins they can make on simple over priced cruisers.. Thanks to Competition, HD cannot have such a large Profit margin on the Pan American and still compete against other Brands. The Revolution Max Engine is very modern and Impressive. The Pan American pretty much picks up where Eric Buell Left off in 2008 ..
I love my 2023 PA. My only issue with the bike is the side kick stand. It leans way to far and sucks when your trying to get off when you put it down on a gravel or off road area. I've almost dumped my bike a few times.
Have a 13 R1200GS with all the goodies and is a superb motorcycle. Was looking at the Pan Am as I quite dig the bike. I mean, BMW is no Honda in therms of reliability but damn, the horror stories regarding Pan Am Problems are really killing it. I really want a bike that I can trust.Don't know if I should keep the beemer, upgrade to a r1250gs(the 1300 is not doing it for me) or bite the bullet and search for a SH Pan Am that had all the issues fixed under warranty...
The PA is a hot steaming pile of garbage, I've owned a 21 and a 22, both turds and I am so happy to be rid of them, I tried to drink the Kool aid but I kept throwing it up every time my bike had to be towed to the dealer for another problem, swing and a whiff HD I've owned many HD's and after owning a PA I'm done with HD.
Harley needs to redesign the fairings, so that they're smoother. They're too separated, with that junk on top not flowing together. The windshield should flow more like how it does on the Road Glide fairing.Those fairings on the A.I. generated Pan Americas look better. Harley should also lighten the bike, for rougher terrain.
The prices given on the Pan America might be cheaper than GS, but not accurate. New Pan America Special will cost you about 23 to 24,000, still cheaper but not 21.
I’m in my second R1200GS(a ‘10 & now an ‘18 GSA). I freakin love these bikes. I’m not a hardcore dirt guy but I have some single trail on them, get a dirt bike unless you’re an ADV god (which I am NOT). But for any other kind of riding these bikes are awesome, doing the Dragon, 2600 mile tour to New England, just awesome bikes. I also have my 2005 RoadKing so don’t think I’m just a BMW fanboy. I’m on my 6th Harley, I love the character & typing of Harleys and I never want to be without a Harley. (Been all over America on my Harleys too, 4800 mile trip a couple of years ago on my old ElectraGlide)
There's no actual data that proves it was the best or it the best in the US currently. The data that was and is available doesn't disprove it was either. But certainly could have been. it's not because it's better. it's because it's a Harley. It's a good start. Hopefully they keep at it. The middle weight ADV market is very competitive. Love to see them put out something the spices up the market.
Good discussion points. This is good info here. "any manufacturer who could have sold more adventure-touring motorcycles than Harley-Davidson would be a member of the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) and have access to its numbers. If the Pan America Special isn’t the top-selling adventure bike, the true top-selling manufacturer could easily cry foul. Harley-Davidson likely would not make such a bold claim unless there was some element of truth to it." Article here ==> www.motorcycle.com/features/harley-davidson-claims-pan-america-special-is-north-americas-top-selling-adventure-bike.html
Awesome video! I have test rode the pan am a couple times and I love it but I would love to see a middle weight ADV… that is something I would purchase
Thanks for the short and sweet on the Pan Am. I’m looking at these hard. Wondering if it would suit me coming from an Ultra twin cam. I might just keep both but I do like the idea of a bike to suit all my touring and highway commuting needs.
I just hope they keep making it🤔🤔. Seems like every time Harley makes a bike I would like, they cancel it! I'd hope they would make a middle weight adventure bike. What'd be crazy would for Harley to make dirt bikes. I think might have at one point? Anyway, they now have Asian manufacturing capabilities. I'd love an American made dirt bike, that'd then be a one stop shopping for me dealership. Here's hoping🤞🤞
The adaptive shocks are sweet and ride modes. The rest reminds me of a Buell Ulysses except with more problems and useless tech. The tech don't seem like it will age well. It's a heavy 70/30 adventure bike. With most of the adventure being the reliability. In true Harley fashion 10 years late to the party.
Your 2023 review was good however your comment about Bmw not having other bikes in that market place that would be comparable to the Panama I think is incorrect. Bmw makes a 900 GS which I think is actually a better comparison to what Harley Davidson has made. I also believe that the Panama does not do near as well as the GS does as far as touring down the highway.. I think Harley has made a very good attempt however I am not heard of many people getting one without having issues reliability. Many trips back to dealers with sensors telling me what’s going wrong. No company wants to have issues. And it matters a lot how the company makes corrections. It’s unfortunate that there seems to be a large amount of people who have bought this bike and have had to deal with Harley Davidson‘s learning curve. Biggest thing I’ve heard is that the dealerships don’t have the clothing . A thing Harley has is normally clothing, but they don’t have the nylon style waterproof and vented jackets. Many of the owners of these bikes I’ve talked with who have Harley everything, including tattoos by everything with the Harley Davidson name on it.
BMW low maintenance shaft drive. PA chain, so you’re going to have to carry a spare chain, and adjust it regularly. On a long trip, you might have to replace the chain.
That's also what's nice about a chain. Can be replaced on the trail. Shaft driver goes bad, you're screwed pretty much. Give or take. Many like chains, others like shaft driven. Pros and cons for both.
@@RyanUrlacher I put 200 thousand miles on 3 different shaft drive Yamahas with zero issues. I’ve also put 230 thousand miles on Harley belts zero issues. On my 883 Sportster, I had to replace the chain before 15 thousand miles. I’m not sayin, I’m just sayin.
That's not a real issue for any real adv rider. The chance of actually losing the chain is very very low and adjusting it when needed takes 5 mins. Shaft is much more convenient for sure.
I’ve done 30,000 kms on my Pan Am including one 12,000 km lap of Australia and didn’t need to adjust chain. Needs replacement now. Shaft on my Guzzi failed and cost $3,000 to fix….
I traded my ‘21 PAS back in after a year and got a ‘22 RG ST. I don’t miss the PA AT ALL. I love the big FLs. I am shopping for another ADV bike but not sure what I will ride in 2024. I will always have a Harley in the garage.
Lee's does forget docking fees taxes title and by golly you better have an insurance on it before you roll out the door the walk-in with a good attitude
First year great sales but I see a lot of them sitting in show rooms now. Did everyone that wanted one initially buy one now the bike sits in show rooms? For on road big bikes like this are great however I love my KTM 390 adv for fire roads and some trails because it’s only 400lbs. I think smaller adv is the future.
I don't know where he got his information from but I doubt if the Pan-America is the number one selling Adventure Motorcycle in America. It is certainly not the best.
About half way in the video on the mountain trail, there is something big to the left in the trees. What the heck is that thing? Black bears aren't that big.
I don't see the point in a 975 Pan America. The 975 engine is the same physical size and weight of the 1200. You won't gain anything by putting it in an adventure bike. It won't be competitive with any of the other 900ish ADV bikes. All the other 900 ADV bikes are considerably more compact and other than their bigger brothers. The 1250 Pan America is competitive with it's class, but losing a bunch of power and torque to gain nothing else is just not gonna sell in that market.
BMW released 1300 GS Harley drops the standard Pan American from the line up in Europe and Asia Pacific the 2024 Harley PA is getting close to 30K AUD Ideas 💡 Rider Enduro training like BMW special Safari rides not just in the US BMW do stuff all over, the x350 x500 benelli have scrambler versions Harley can use them to train people.
Sorry, but the communication system on the PAm is crap. It is hit and miss, eg, you leave home, things (bike/phone/headset) connect, then you stop for fuel and fire up the bike, things won't connect. The Infotainment system relies on a Harley App on your phone for navigation, music, etc, of course, that's hopeless in the countryside where phone reception cuts out and then won't reconnect when phone receptions come back on. Of course, the Harley App is not a true Nav so while it directs you from A to B, there is no detail available like on a proper GPS. And the knock-out punch for the infotainment system is, including the related switch block controls (eg. volume etc) don't work with a proper GPS - which can't be connected to the infotainment system. Just inefficient, unreliable and hopeless. BTW, I could never get the PTT button on the switch block to work irrespective what I tried and even using different brand headsets. Perhaps one needs a Harley branded head set, I don't know and I don't care. I know crap when I see it.
Weird that you say it is number 1 in sales, see tons of 2022’s sitting on dealer floors still at this point in the year. Whilst, you arent going to find any BMW 1250GS’s anywhere. Even Triumph 1200’s are just 2023 these days. Sooooooo… what gives. (SWFL is the market I am in)
Why would Harley put the close to the ground? I am new to ADV riding. Took the bike off road and through a low water crossing. Killed the bike, partially shorted the battery. I was with a group of KTMs, BMWs. They got a pretty good laugh. Had to wait 4 hours for my Bud to bring my trailer!
Interesting. Water should not "short" a battery. I wash my bikes all the time and spray the battery directly with water and no issues? Something else going on there I'd think. Thanks for watching.
Harley certainly DID NOT NAIL IT. I bought one in ‘21 and traded it back in in ‘22. The air box resonance will give you a headache. The engine is very noisy. It’s hot and the seat is TERRIBLE. The starter issues are well known. It was a good first effort and if they will fix the issues with it I will consider one again. I think it is one of the best looking big adventure bikes. I’ve owned the KTM 1290. Magic engine but UGLY. I’ve owned a couple of BMW GS bikes and there is a reason they are the standard. They are really good. I’m back riding a Harley FL and looking at my next purchase.
The Harley runs hot compared to the BMW R1250GS, the GS has a better weight distribution and has better acceleration and handling. If you buy a PanAm you are buying the name HD. Before you plunk down your money try the Beemer, or even a Triumph Tiger 1200 which has similar HP to the Harley, but the Triumph has the sweet Triple sound. Better proven bikes out there for less money than the Harley.
Absolutely not. I have experience the motor company at its worst. They wanted to put the old piston in a new cylinder and leave the old rear cylinder alone after 22000 miles. The motor company is a terrible group to make decisions. They can't figure out why they are losing market share and I would highly doubt your idea that the Harley-Davidson Pan America. How come Harley-Davidson just barely beat BMW in total sales in 2022. Gsa's are everywhere. You see them in Africa Europe and everywhere else. I don't think the Pan America could survive being that far away from a dealer. Harley-Davidson has never been that focused on quality they put together a nice-looking bike but it is weak heavy and handles bad. Now the new Pan America is a huge step for Harley-Davidson.
I would still take a Ténéré over both the Pan Am and the GS if I was going off road. Harley should take the Revo X 750, retune it a throw it in to a "no nonsense, no frills" off road bike ment for real off roading and call it the "Trans America"
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My 2022 Pan America went in the shop in May under 400 miles on it it went into ‘’limp’’ mode.. it’s the end of August it is still in the shop.. my dealer let me take a 2023 demo bike this summer while I was waiting.. I drove the demo bike like I stole it 1700 miles and absolutely no problems. What a bike.. I hope when I finally get mine back it doesn’t breakdown again
I'm pushing 30k miles on my 21 PA, 2 years in. I have owned a lot of bikes and my PA is my absolute favorite! The bike has been great. It's the only bike I've ever owned that just fit me. I use mine mostly for sport turing but with some light off road. I don't care what kind of bike you want to call it, it has done everything well for me. From commuting to work to beach road cruising to touring the mountains to 250 miles of the Trans American Trail. The OEM battery (IMHO) was/is insufficient for the bike so I replaced mine with a better aftermarket brand, but that's it.. Just regular services.
b.d. what brand battery did you replace the OEM one with.
Also what is the CCA rating on the replacement battery.
I want to RAndR my OEM battery before fall sets in.
Thank you
@@paulwojnar2291 Antigravity ATX12-HD. It's 480 cranking amps. Love it. I've had the battery almost a year. I've heard lithiums aren't great in the cold. I live in the south, the coldest day I've dealt with in my travels was about 25F and I didn't have any issues.
I just got one. It is an amazing motorbike, I just did my 1st long ride on dirt and road. I could not stop smiling. The on demand modes were spot on. Dirt, road, sport, and rain were all used as it was just one of those days in the PNW.
b.d. how tall are you? What makes the bike "just fit" you?
@@WinWebWorks I'm 6'4", with a 34" inseam. The fit is based on not needing to buy or have anything else. The stock seat, pegs and bars put everything at angles that are comfortable to me. I ride with the stock seat in the low position and the stock bars back. I sit "in" the bike, not "on" the bike. My back is straight. No weight on my palms and I sit on my arse, not my taint.
Harley needs to get its QC to a higher level.
HD dirt glide I needed reliability so passed on the glide went MGV85. No issues. I did enjoy the gift set HD sent me for my deposit. Much respect for how HD responded to the guys stuck on the trail with shredded cams and blown coolant lines.
I bought the Moto Guzzi too, just before Buying the MG I went into the HD Dealership great people 7k difference of out the door price. So I got shafted by MG. The MG does everything that I want it to do. Maybe HD in the Future
Bought a 22 in Oct 22. Few glitches all fixed with software updates. Now with 10k on her she is an amazing bike. I bought for pavement which it is an amazing performer in the likes of the smokies, but once I took it off road I am hooked. Pavement just doesn’t have the thrill.
I have hilariously short legs for my height, and the Pan America is the ONLY off road bike I can ride. I don't mean ride because I can get both feet down lol... I have a couple decades of riding experience and an truly comfortable only getting a few toes down on one foot at a time... And that's all I can get on the Pan America with it's self lowering suspension. I have to commend Harley to that. I'm getting one... It's a FREAKING AMAZING bike. It's REALLY fast.
Don’t get my following words confused, I loved my Pan America. Loved what it did for my ability to ride ALL DAY again. That being said, I had so many issues with the bike. I won’t go into how many cause apparently when I list the issues I experienced, I’m “a liar” because I’m listing every problem talked about “in the forums”. Whatever, let’s just say, I owned it for 12 months and 7 days. It had an amazing amount of issues and eventually a major failure that forced Harley to take it back. Been riding for 25 years (on road) and having owned about every brand available in the USA, Harleys always been my favorite brand but I’m taking a break after the nightmare MY PAN AM (Not yours so don’t get all Emo) turned out to be. Finally getting a 2023 BMW R1250GSA. Never thought I’d get a BMW due to the total douche bags I’ve met riding them, but I’m hoping to break that stigma.
I had a 1250 GSA, great bike with no problems, i now have a 2022 Pan Am and regret it all the way. The most unreliable bike i have ever owned, did not even make it home after purchasing it new. No quality control at all.
@@joshbrook6849 I just bought a pan America in SD and am almost back home in Florida, seems fine to me riding 12 hours a day or more in extreme heat
Heading toward 15,000 miles on a 2022 PAS.
So far so good.
Havent had any issues. Road it well into the winter months here in north Pa.
Keep it and all 4 of my bikes on smart chargers when not in use.
My KLR is the nasty winter ride.
I use the PA as a touring commuting bike and it does that very well.
Harley definitely needs to :
A. Cure and eliminate the electronic and mechanical issues that some machines are having.
They are going into 2024 models their fourth year of production. These things should be a thing of the past at this point.
B. Not all dealerships are onboard with this machine and not providing service and support to the buying public.
These things can kill this before it gains any real traction and go the way of the V Rod and Buell motorcycles.
By this time no PA owner should have to retro fit a radiator guard nor a front fender extension. They should come as new.
Also no dealer should sell these above MSRP.
That should be illegal to begin with.
My PAS went out the door at 21,000 USD plus tax,title,Tag and dealer prep .
If the Motor Company doesnt address these issues pronto it could be the death knell for what could be a great bike and the gateway to their future in this century. A Harley fan who is also a big fan of all motorized machines on two wheels no matter the type or brand. Have had many and love them all.
Glad to see new Pan Am review content in '23. Most creators i follow moved away talking about this bike after the freebies and hub-bub was over. I'm a street rider and want to get one. I'm not super interested in off road but it would be great touring alternative to the 'glides'. Only all the electronic issues are giving me pause. Seems as you have to really keep a close eye on the battery and keep it on a specific type of tender to keep things in good order. And even then, you'll still be back at the dealer for issues. Hoping harley figures these out.
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No doubt, I have had 2.
Was looking for my next bike. Was narrowed down to GS 1250 or Pan America. While a lot of people have received 21' examples with many little gremlins, the overwhelming sentiment was Harley was great to deal with. Living in the Black Hills and having friend that work down at Black Hills Harley, definitely leaning towards the Pan Am. Another HUGE plus is that without exception every large "influencer" like yourself has stressed, Harley not only let you abuse one of their bikes, but also said to not hold back on thoughts/criticisms. That tells me they are behind making this bike as good as they can and are proud of what they are developing.
I’m planning a ride from Michigan to Alaska next summer , after looking at the pan American, bmw gs 1250 , triumph 1200 tiger pro I decided to just ride my Harley ultra limited to Alaska ; I am not comfortable enough to ride all day on the adventure bikes , I’m 5’8 170 it seems you need to be 6’5’” to be comfortable; I’ve gone to pacific coast twice on my ultra limited , idea of something lighter and handle dirt/sandy roads was appealing but can’t handle the trade offs in comfort
Enjoy, that will be a fun trip on whatever you ride.
I’m wondering why you compared the pricing to a GS Adventure rather than the standard GS, which is a more appropriate comparison to the PA?
While a 975 version is the logical progression for the pan America, I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. I think they have their hands full with the current model and everything else they have going on. I think getting a 975 model that’s capable, looks the part, and is actually lighter, that’s the key….LIGHTER than the 1250? It has to be around 500 lbs or less and that’s a tall order. IMO of course.
I own on, it is an amazing bike and brings a lot of fun.
Very proud of Harley to do this bike. I don’t like the looks of the front, but I’m getting used to it. Very happy it is selling well. Doesn’t fit my use case either (too big and heavy) but I’d sure take a look at little brother. Thanks for a great video.
hearing about an upcoming 975 and i'm with you i'd be interested
I bought a Pan Am Special in 2021, proud of HD to boldly enter a market it had never been in and deliver an excellent first go. Then this …. Instead of building upon the legitimacy of its entry to ADV, HD backtracks to its old self and simply tarts the Pan Am up.
Looked at one 2 months ago to replace my commuter 1st gen KLR 650. I have a 30" inseam, so the thing was super tall and at 550lbs it's a tank. Heck of a bike though. Hopefully they make a 600-700 class bike. There's one in Reno that's black with the HD logo in orange that looks bad azz. Just 29 days till Sturgis for 3 weeks.
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I talked to a guy at Road America who walked me through the Pan Am engine with their cut away engine. Interesting engine for sure. I asked about a 975cc version of the Pan Am and when we are going to see it and he said it is no longer in the plans for Harley. And this guy was a Harley Engineer. I was a little sad to hear that. I like the 1250 but I think its a bit bulky for true off road. In my eyes its a touring/trail bike. Offroad.... Id be a little hesitant with a bike that big and heavy.
That's a real shame to hear, I was so looking forward to the Pan Am 975, these full size adventure bikes are simply too big and heavy, what are you going to do if you drop it in snow or mud or sand?
I dropped my little KLX250S in a muddy gully and nearly blew a valve trying to get it upright and out of there, I hate to think what would happen if I was stuck under the big Pan Am.
Oh well, maybe Harley will reconsider.
I had 2 PA, a 21 and 22, both bought new. As you noted in your video thay are a ball to ride and perfect for the usage you described. That's why i wanted one, along with their lighter weight (as compared to my Road Glide and Softail) and cooler running engine.
But on both bikes i had a steady stream of electronic issues, fuel pump replacements and engine oil leakage that reluctantly forced me to get rid of them both, the 21 with 10k miles and the 22 with 2k miles. It spent more time at the dealer than in my garage during my 5 months of ownership.(wish i could have communicated with your engineer friend Terry during that time period!)
Would i buy another? You bet if i thoughtt i could trust it. Even with the problems they were easily the most fun i have had in 30 years of riding HDs. So i will wait a year or two and maybe try one out again.Glad you a great time with yours. Just watching you broght back lots of good memories!
Awesome!! Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Unfortunately my experience is similar. Stator broken, clutch (16,000 miles) fuel pump and wiring harness issues. My dealer has gone to bat for me, but while I’ve had some amazing times on it, it’s left me stranded amd ruined several trips. I’m keeping with it because I just love it so much and I hope after so many miles, I’ve broken already what’s going to break.
I had an unfortunate experience with my ‘21 PAS. When it worked it was best machine I have ever owned. Each time I go into an HD dealer I migrate towards a PA and immediately gravitate towards them. I wanted that bike to be all it could be 100% of the time.
Just this week I spoke with the service manager at my dealer (who knew my history with the two PAs). He said that the 23's are having few mechanical issues. Still numerous computer updates however. There is hope at the end of the tunnel perhaps.
Similar experiences as well, kept a journal of experiences. The dealer has been amazing but after spending time yo-yo'ing between the trail and the dealer I decided to just sit back and wait to see if next gens shake it out. I really want to understand what's going on with them. Great Content though!
ARH is the reason I got one. Simply. Lowered bike for short people with out loosing handling compared to other brands.
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i went for the Norden 901. I will say HD has dont loads to shove the Pan Am in your face and I love that they did that bc it shows they want to make a mark in the newly growing old sport of ADV and lord knows they have needed to push the boundaries of the old potato.
The cost comparison really doesn't mean anything because by the time you're finished at the HD dealership with all of the markups and fees, costs are about the same. With costs being the same, BMW becomes the best bang for the buck in terms of quality and refinement. And you can get a low suspension and low seat for the BMW, which makes it comparable if not lower than the PanAm with the adjustable ride height.
If one is paying markups for a PA, you re at the wrong dealer. This bike is available for under 20k. I just got another one.
I think hd was very smart 2 get into the adventure market 😊 they knocked it out of the park!
Great review Ryan, thanks enjoyed the video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Hope gen 2 puts air filter out from under the fuel tank, like under the seat, or the side like KLR. Off road bikes should have easy access air filters and batteries to check and fix on the trail instead of needing the garage tear down to the frame to check , jumpstart, or replace.
These bikes make KTM and BMW look reliable 😅
Your emoji makes you look like a child
Nice video. I rode a KTM 1190ADV R everywhere. Those shows “long way down (round and up)” with Ewan McGregor really made me want adventure in my life! Great to see HD in the sector. Now, I ride big touring bikes. I love my Road Glide Special but plan to buy a BMW R 18 B - seems like BMW is trying to sell Harleys and HD are trying to sell BMW GSAs. Strange times.
When i 1st saw the PA i laughed 😅 and said ur taking on the bmw gs!? That will certainly fail, boy was i wrong!😮
Let's hope the next step is to get those things running the right way.
Haha, that KLR sound at the beginning threw me off, I recognized it immediately but was expecting a Pan America - confuuuusion.
I am torn between PA vs Low Rider ST. I currently have relatively rare Cafe’d Sportster Roadster…I am torn.
I have the LowRider st and it's a fun bike. O
I have a PA and my twin brother the ST (stage 2). I use the PA as a sports tourer. On fast rides I can pass him, just. His low rider looks like a Harley and mine looks like a Honda. He has an Ultra and I’ve got a Street Glide too
This was a very good video. Ive followed you over a year now and you are honest in your reviews. The first review i watched was on the FXDR. You were honest and spot on. I re-watched this because i bought another PA yesterday. They are going for a good price. My last one had 0 issue and im looking forward to riding some offroad again.
I met a xbmw gs guy he said, he traded his gs in 4 a pa and thinks its superior 2 his bmw gs. I was very surprised 2 hear that honesty...😮
Great review! That’s a good looking dude at the 15:40 mark!
Agreed!
@@RyanUrlacher I meant to say a couple of good looking dudes ☝🏼😂
He's so cool, he doesn't even need to hold his beer with the handle!
The ARH is amazing in that you don't even feel it working.
i looked at the radiator position and laughed and even more when my friends test ride had it clogged with mud and over warning lights started coming on as it over heated
Will never consider Harley ever again since they teamed up with Budweiser... And good luck with that 👍
Being a really short person, I love the lower height feature. The Problem is I don't want such a Large and Heavy Bike.
I will Probably go with the much more off road capable Yamaha T-7 for less than half of the price.
I really could care less about all of the electronic gadgets.
HD Share Holders like the Margins they can make on simple over priced cruisers.. Thanks to Competition, HD cannot have such a large Profit margin on the Pan American and still compete against other Brands.
The Revolution Max Engine is very modern and Impressive.
The Pan American pretty much picks up where Eric Buell Left off in 2008 ..
I love my 2023 PA. My only issue with the bike is the side kick stand. It leans way to far and sucks when your trying to get off when you put it down on a gravel or off road area. I've almost dumped my bike a few times.
Have a 13 R1200GS with all the goodies and is a superb motorcycle. Was looking at the Pan Am as I quite dig the bike. I mean, BMW is no Honda in therms of reliability but damn, the horror stories regarding Pan Am Problems are really killing it. I really want a bike that I can trust.Don't know if I should keep the beemer, upgrade to a r1250gs(the 1300 is not doing it for me) or bite the bullet and search for a SH Pan Am that had all the issues fixed under warranty...
Harley should consider smaller scale V-rod motors for these .
The PA is a hot steaming pile of garbage, I've owned a 21 and a 22, both turds and I am so happy to be rid of them, I tried to drink the Kool aid but I kept throwing it up every time my bike had to be towed to the dealer for another problem, swing and a whiff HD I've owned many HD's and after owning a PA I'm done with HD.
Geez
What issues?
I love to see a sport touring version of the PA.
Harley needs to redesign the fairings, so that they're smoother. They're too separated, with that junk on top not flowing together. The windshield should flow more like how it does on the Road Glide fairing.Those fairings on the A.I. generated Pan Americas look better. Harley should also lighten the bike, for rougher terrain.
The prices given on the Pan America might be cheaper than GS, but not accurate. New Pan America Special will cost you about 23 to 24,000, still cheaper but not 21.
I love my PA...it is my favorite..to RIDE.. I Have a 23 RG CVO...also..it great but the PA hits the spot..the favorite spot
Your take on the R1250GS would be interesting in riding test. To compare. You mentioned the BMW a few times..
Definitely. BMW's gotta get me on one
I’m in my second R1200GS(a ‘10 & now an ‘18 GSA). I freakin love these bikes. I’m not a hardcore dirt guy but I have some single trail on them, get a dirt bike unless you’re an ADV god (which I am NOT). But for any other kind of riding these bikes are awesome, doing the Dragon, 2600 mile tour to New England, just awesome bikes. I also have my 2005 RoadKing so don’t think I’m just a BMW fanboy. I’m on my 6th Harley, I love the character & typing of Harleys and I never want to be without a Harley. (Been all over America on my Harleys too, 4800 mile trip a couple of years ago on my old ElectraGlide)
I think hd hit a homerun on that design 😊
yep, several showed the 975 patens and parts etc., last year... I expect it is something they are working on or at least considering
Yah, I saw those. I'm hoping!!!
Im hoping for a cheaper 975 Pan America hopefully to come.
There's no actual data that proves it was the best or it the best in the US currently. The data that was and is available doesn't disprove it was either. But certainly could have been. it's not because it's better. it's because it's a Harley. It's a good start. Hopefully they keep at it. The middle weight ADV market is very competitive. Love to see them put out something the spices up the market.
Good discussion points. This is good info here. "any manufacturer who could have sold more adventure-touring motorcycles than Harley-Davidson would be a member of the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) and have access to its numbers. If the Pan America Special isn’t the top-selling adventure bike, the true top-selling manufacturer could easily cry foul. Harley-Davidson likely would not make such a bold claim unless there was some element of truth to it." Article here ==> www.motorcycle.com/features/harley-davidson-claims-pan-america-special-is-north-americas-top-selling-adventure-bike.html
Not best. Best sell in North America.
a friend I ride with bought a PanAM in early 22. It was in the shop 4 months of the 7 months he owned it. He traded it for a 22 heritage and loves it.
Some have guessed that HD only re-leased the Pan-America to get the cruiser crowed used to a liquid cooled engine.
Awesome video! I have test rode the pan am a couple times and I love it but I would love to see a middle weight ADV… that is something I would purchase
Hey Ryan! Looks like I got the 1K like shot today!! I have a 2021 Pan America also!!
Thanks for the short and sweet on the Pan Am. I’m looking at these hard. Wondering if it would suit me coming from an Ultra twin cam. I might just keep both but I do like the idea of a bike to suit all my touring and highway commuting needs.
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I just hope they keep making it🤔🤔. Seems like every time Harley makes a bike I would like, they cancel it! I'd hope they would make a middle weight adventure bike. What'd be crazy would for Harley to make dirt bikes. I think might have at one point? Anyway, they now have Asian manufacturing capabilities. I'd love an American made dirt bike, that'd then be a one stop shopping for me dealership. Here's hoping🤞🤞
Needs Wheelie control and shift assist pro on all models.
The adaptive shocks are sweet and ride modes. The rest reminds me of a Buell Ulysses except with more problems and useless tech. The tech don't seem like it will age well. It's a heavy 70/30 adventure bike. With most of the adventure being the reliability. In true Harley fashion 10 years late to the party.
The bars looks off set at the mounts
Your 2023 review was good however your comment about Bmw not having other bikes in that market place that would be comparable to the Panama I think is incorrect. Bmw makes a 900 GS which I think is actually a better comparison to what Harley Davidson has made. I also believe that the Panama does not do near as well as the GS does as far as touring down the highway.. I think Harley has made a very good attempt however I am not heard of many people getting one without having issues reliability. Many trips back to dealers with sensors telling me what’s going wrong. No company wants to have issues. And it matters a lot how the company makes corrections. It’s unfortunate that there seems to be a large amount of people who have bought this bike and have had to deal with Harley Davidson‘s learning curve. Biggest thing I’ve heard is that the dealerships don’t have the clothing . A thing Harley has is normally clothing, but they don’t have the nylon style waterproof and vented jackets. Many of the owners of these bikes I’ve talked with who have Harley everything, including tattoos by everything with the Harley Davidson name on it.
BMW low maintenance shaft drive. PA chain, so you’re going to have to carry a spare chain, and adjust it regularly. On a long trip, you might have to replace the chain.
That's also what's nice about a chain. Can be replaced on the trail. Shaft driver goes bad, you're screwed pretty much. Give or take. Many like chains, others like shaft driven. Pros and cons for both.
@@RyanUrlacher I put 200 thousand miles on 3 different shaft drive Yamahas with zero issues. I’ve also put 230 thousand miles on Harley belts zero issues. On my 883 Sportster, I had to replace the chain before 15 thousand miles. I’m not sayin, I’m just sayin.
That's not a real issue for any real adv rider. The chance of actually losing the chain is very very low and adjusting it when needed takes 5 mins. Shaft is much more convenient for sure.
I’ve done 30,000 kms on my Pan Am including one 12,000 km lap of Australia and didn’t need to adjust chain. Needs replacement now. Shaft on my Guzzi failed and cost $3,000 to fix….
Spare chain?
I can’t believe the Pan America is selling more that BMW GS’. I don’t see any on the road here in South Florida.
I can say it is for certain.
Hey m8. hi from Sydney Australia. just found you and would like to say thanks for the review.
I've heard nothing but praise on the PA..
Why did you compare to a GSA? HD is way off the mark on the PA except in warranty claims. Try riding one in the mud and see what happens.
LOL. Thought I was the only person to put a Japanese Hot Springs girl on my bike (seen in 17:17).
I will stick with my 2010 klr650, 100, 000 kms and not a single problem
I'd love to get an early model for cheap.
Love this bike..would like it as a 2nd bike..28 grand is the problem
would you give up your road glide for a pan america?
I traded my ‘21 PAS back in after a year and got a ‘22 RG ST. I don’t miss the PA AT ALL. I love the big FLs. I am shopping for another ADV bike but not sure what I will ride in 2024. I will always have a Harley in the garage.
Lee's does forget docking fees taxes title and by golly you better have an insurance on it before you roll out the door the walk-in with a good attitude
Those are popular i see them frequently 😊
First year great sales but I see a lot of them sitting in show rooms now. Did everyone that wanted one initially buy one now the bike sits in show rooms? For on road big bikes like this are great however I love my KTM 390 adv for fire roads and some trails because it’s only 400lbs. I think smaller adv is the future.
I don't know where he got his information from but I doubt if the Pan-America is the number one selling Adventure Motorcycle in America.
It is certainly not the best.
The deal killer for this bike is the design of the radiator right behind the unprotected front tire low to the ground.
Wish I could ride one. 5ft 4 and can't even touch the ground.
I a x-bmw guy and id choose the pan America, i think its slightly superior to the bmw gs...
About half way in the video on the mountain trail, there is something big to the left in the trees. What the heck is that thing? Black bears aren't that big.
I don't see the point in a 975 Pan America. The 975 engine is the same physical size and weight of the 1200. You won't gain anything by putting it in an adventure bike. It won't be competitive with any of the other 900ish ADV bikes. All the other 900 ADV bikes are considerably more compact and other than their bigger brothers. The 1250 Pan America is competitive with it's class, but losing a bunch of power and torque to gain nothing else is just not gonna sell in that market.
This
BMW released 1300 GS Harley drops the standard Pan American from the line up in Europe and Asia Pacific the 2024 Harley PA is getting close to 30K AUD Ideas 💡 Rider Enduro training like BMW special Safari rides not just in the US BMW do stuff all over, the x350 x500 benelli have scrambler versions Harley can use them to train people.
They build a 975 I will buy it.
Comparison with the BMW 1250 GS would have been more relevant.
Sorry, but the communication system on the PAm is crap. It is hit and miss, eg, you leave home, things (bike/phone/headset) connect, then you stop for fuel and fire up the bike, things won't connect. The Infotainment system relies on a Harley App on your phone for navigation, music, etc, of course, that's hopeless in the countryside where phone reception cuts out and then won't reconnect when phone receptions come back on. Of course, the Harley App is not a true Nav so while it directs you from A to B, there is no detail available like on a proper GPS. And the knock-out punch for the infotainment system is, including the related switch block controls (eg. volume etc) don't work with a proper GPS - which can't be connected to the infotainment system. Just inefficient, unreliable and hopeless. BTW, I could never get the PTT button on the switch block to work irrespective what I tried and even using different brand headsets. Perhaps one needs a Harley branded head set, I don't know and I don't care. I know crap when I see it.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Weird that you say it is number 1 in sales, see tons of 2022’s sitting on dealer floors still at this point in the year. Whilst, you arent going to find any BMW 1250GS’s anywhere. Even Triumph 1200’s are just 2023 these days. Sooooooo… what gives. (SWFL is the market I am in)
In sweden! 2021 still at the dealer🤔
To expensiv is the problem.
26 k for a special
Why would Harley put the close to the ground? I am new to ADV riding. Took the bike off road and through a low water crossing. Killed the bike, partially shorted the battery. I was with a group of KTMs, BMWs. They got a pretty good laugh. Had to wait 4 hours for my Bud to bring my trailer!
Interesting. Water should not "short" a battery. I wash my bikes all the time and spray the battery directly with water and no issues? Something else going on there I'd think. Thanks for watching.
Bike washing is not submerging the battery!
Why u Americans buy "adventure bikes" if u take 30tons lorry to bring them to destination place?
Harley certainly DID NOT NAIL IT. I bought one in ‘21 and traded it back in in ‘22. The air box resonance will give you a headache. The engine is very noisy. It’s hot and the seat is TERRIBLE. The starter issues are well known. It was a good first effort and if they will fix the issues with it I will consider one again. I think it is one of the best looking big adventure bikes. I’ve owned the KTM 1290. Magic engine but UGLY. I’ve owned a couple of BMW GS bikes and there is a reason they are the standard. They are really good. I’m back riding a Harley FL and looking at my next purchase.
I need a Pan America NOW
That's for sure!!!!
The Harley runs hot compared to the BMW R1250GS, the GS has a better weight distribution and has better acceleration and handling. If you buy a PanAm you are buying the name HD. Before you plunk down your money try the Beemer, or even a Triumph Tiger 1200 which has similar HP to the Harley, but the Triumph has the sweet Triple sound. Better proven bikes out there for less money than the Harley.
@@Bikerbug2020 not many dealers in my area for those
Absolutely not. I have experience the motor company at its worst. They wanted to put the old piston in a new cylinder and leave the old rear cylinder alone after 22000 miles. The motor company is a terrible group to make decisions. They can't figure out why they are losing market share and I would highly doubt your idea that the Harley-Davidson Pan America. How come Harley-Davidson just barely beat BMW in total sales in 2022. Gsa's are everywhere. You see them in Africa Europe and everywhere else. I don't think the Pan America could survive being that far away from a dealer. Harley-Davidson has never been that focused on quality they put together a nice-looking bike but it is weak heavy and handles bad. Now the new Pan America is a huge step for Harley-Davidson.
If i buy a 2nd hd it will be a PA!
You consistently emphasize that you're independent and impartial. Are you sure you don't work for, or get paid by, Harley?
The obvious next move is a CVO model that will sell worse than any CVO in history.
I would still take a Ténéré over both the Pan Am and the GS if I was going off road. Harley should take the Revo X 750, retune it a throw it in to a "no nonsense, no frills" off road bike ment for real off roading and call it the "Trans America"
Tenere is a good bike. However, it's not in the same category as these full size adventure touring bikes. Thanks for the comments.
If I weren't a poor, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
😅😅 hardy hardy Harley 😅
Some boys would ride a fat redhead if it had a Harley badge on it!!!!!! not the same company they used to be!!!!!🌈
Battery!
Hold onto your hat and your wallet when all that tech starts to go south.😱💰💰💰💰