Testing Viewer Suggestions on “The World's Best Speakers” from Tech Ingredients - Dayton Audio
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- The video I published a few months ago ( • How To Build "The Worl... ) testing the claim of the “World’s Best Speakers” from @TechIngredients received a lot of questions and comments about other ways to test these flat panel speakers built with Dayton Audio exciters. In this video I test a dozen different speaker designs, inspired by viewer feedback on my original video. I was surprised by a few of the things I heard in my testing. How about you?
Here are some links to a few items I used in this video. Clicking these and buying something will send a few pennies to help this channel, and does not cost you anything extra:
🛒 Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speakers: amzn.to/3A7q6GL
🛒 Fosi Audio BT30D Amplifier: amzn.to/3jimGKF
🛒 Fosi Audio BT20A Amplifier: amzn.to/3hAMNuS
🛒 Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Exciter: amzn.to/3ynZmBB
🛒 Other Dayton Exciters: amzn.to/3A7MxeT
🛒 Tape to mount exciters: amzn.to/3JP0J2l
🕐 0:00 Introduction
🕐 0:55 Why You Should Wear Headphones
🕐 2:11 Recording Environment
🕐 3:22 Testing Background and Overview
🕐 4:38 Speaker Designs Overview
🕐 12:07 Indie Pop
🕐 13:37 Swing Jazz
🕐 15:10 Modern Blues
🕐 16:43 Hard Rock/Metal
🕐 18:16 Classical Guitar
🕐 19:50 Modern Country
🕐 21:24 Electronica/Dubstep
🕐 22:56 Hip Hop
🕐 24:29 Pop Rock
🕐 26:03 Classical Strings
🕐 27:33 Conclusion
#FlatPanelSpeakers #SpeakerTesting #DIYSpeakers
Here are all the speaker designs I tested:
1. Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speakers
3. Original flat panel design
4. Originals with Subwoofer
5. Originals with 2 Exciters
5. Originals with 2 Exciters and Sub
6. Painted
7. Light Weight Fabric
8. Medium Weight Fabric
9. Square
10. Square No Sanding
11. Triangular
12. Fixed Exciter
Have more questions about other materials, shapes, exciters, etc? Check out this great guide from Dayton Audio (makers of the exciters I used):
🌐 www.daytonaudio.com/topic/exc...
Audio tracks used for the testing:
🎵 “Wanna Get High On You” by ELWIN - www.epidemicsound.com/track/4...
🎵 “Jazz In Paris” by Media Right Productions - • Jazz In Paris - Media ...
🎵 “Tired Of Trying” by Red Revision - www.epidemicsound.com/track/p...
🎵 “Get Back In The Game” by Clandestyne - www.epidemicsound.com/track/B...
🎵 “Admired By Many” by Andrés Cantú - www.epidemicsound.com/track/w...
🎵 “Domesticated” by Bo The Drifter - www.epidemicsound.com/track/p...
🎵 “Messed It Up” (Chez Remix, Instrumental) by Lvly, Chez - www.epidemicsound.com/track/9...
🎵 “Add It Up” by Nbhd Nick - www.epidemicsound.com/track/Y...
🎵 “In Need Of Remedy” by Sven Karlsson feat. Mia Niles - www.epidemicsound.com/track/f...
🎵 “Four Strings” by Traditional - www.epidemicsound.com/track/r...
Some Testing Notes:
Sometimes on the triangles, and frequently on the fixed mount: There is a clicking/crackling noise. This is from the exciter actually hitting the back of the panel / bottoming out in it’s ability to travel. At lower volumes it did not do this, but I tested everything at the same (higher) volume level.
The classical guitar track (“Admired By Many”) has a lot of performer noise (you can hear him breathing, and other artifacts) in the recording. This was present on all the speakers - check out the original track yourself.
There was a LOT of bass with that subwoofer going. If any of my neighbors are watching - sorry about all the noise a few weekends ago!
-----------------------
You can help me with future projects!
☕️ www.buymeacoffee.com/amplifydiy
AmplifyDIY is a channel dedicated to do-it-yourself projects with in-depth tutorials on a wide range of subjects.
New videos are published frequently. Want to make sure you don't miss any? Subscribe now!
th-cam.com/users/AmplifyDIY?su...
Check out the full channel here:
/ amplifydiy
Follow builds in real-time on Instagram!
/ amplifydiy
Disclaimer: The content provided in this video is for informational use only. Video content is provided at the viewers own risk and the viewer will not hold the parties involved in creating, producing or delivering this information liable for any loss, injury, claim, liability, or damage of any kind resulting in any way from any errors in or omissions from the information. Thanks for understanding. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W1D5 | Summer | เก็บคะแนนสู่รอบไฟนอล สัปดาห์แรก](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jSlV6eB1f9k/mqdefault.jpg)
Here are my thoughts about each panel design: amplifydiy.com/shared/FlatPanelSpeakerTestingResults.html
What did you think of them?
I know you can't please them all, lol, but after hearing the dual exciters, I wanted to hear them fixed mount. Excellent work!
Thanks for posting this. It was frustrating taking into account my speakers/headphones and the digitized path that sound used to get to me. Really hard to tell what improvements were real or just artifacts of the whole process.
Fully agree with your conclusion.
Interesting to read your thoughts on the various speakers/set ups.
And, while I can not argue against your preferences, I do think we need to acknowledge that since none of us viewers were able to actually hear them, all of our preferences are secondhand.
In my original comment, I did express a different preference and while I still think that, it is because I based my preferences on what I could hear at home.
The only "real" conclusion I am willing to make from this video is this:
These flat panel speakers are definitely worth my time to build and hear for myself in my home. I will also say that when I do build a pair, I will not be going with the triangle shaped panels to start with--even though they were the ones that sounded best to me in this video.
Because I have not *actually heard* them yet, it only makes sense to start with the original square panels and then see if any changes seem needed.
I really do enjoy the videos you have posted about these speakers and I fully agree with your view of this latest video as a comparative tool rather than a definitive ranking of the various designs.
Thank you for sharing this and for your thoughts on the specific designs, well done!
The dual exciters made by far the most difference on these panels. the microphones didn't exactly sound natural but it was pretty darn close. great job by the way I cannot compliment you enough for your dedication for doing this this is an absolutely amazing video and it should be in the top 100 of TH-cam if you want my opinion.
I am really impressed by the amount of work you put into this Bravo sir!
I think I'm going to have to order some of these soon as I didn't really realize just how good these actually were at least it makes him great outdoor speakers.
I think with the addition of a super Tweeter it should really make things a lot better and of course addition of a subwoofer as well.
it's amazing that there really wasn't that much actual difference between the fabric in the sanded and the non sanded that I could actually hear between the different musical pieces especially when it came to the classical stuff.
it did seem that the rounded edges took off a little bit of the harshness but again that's just my subjective opinion.
overall grade a effort wonderful presentation!
Dual exciter setup for sure. Sounds amazing and has a richer and fuller sound.
Agreed. They showed to have the most dramatic increase in quality. I think the dynamic range was overall better because you could begin to separate the instruments from each other and the sound opened up a bit compared to the other options.
Im surprised at the popularity of these.
I look at them as a terrible compromise to good sound quality.
Agreed. I closed my eyes after the first cycle through the speakers, then opened them when I heard what sounded the best to me. It was usually those or the addition of the sub. 😁
dual exciter plus subwoofer was clearly head and shoulders above everything else. I'd tune the sub down a bit, for my taste, it was a little over powered, but yeah. dual exciters by a LOOOOOONG shot
Yep. Bit to much bass on the sub for my liking so I'd definitely tune that down a bit, but otherwise great quality. Lots of detail could be heard.
I won't comment on the sound, because I'm not an expert and because it is subjective, but OMG I just HAVE to comment on the editing !
SO MANY switches without missing a beat (much less any clicks & pops)
Unbelievable. Subscribed immediately.
If it was done by telling siri/alexa, PLEASE nobody tell me, let me bask in the glow of artistry with visions of more to come.
AGREED! I also noticed this. The guy did a FANTASTIC job!
Thank you!
totally agree. the editing was perfect
I actually find personal opinions interesting. I could never understand why people argue over subjectivity.
I built a set of these and felt they were in need of DSP. Some instruments sounded better than others. There was a clarity that was amazing, and a good sound stage. Very life like. The timber seemed a bit upper mid heavy, but lacking in the high registers. I was able to play an 80Hz test tone which surprised me.
I agree about how the high quality of this video production.
Award worthy
I liked the dual exciter/ subwoofer combination. It seems to create a fuller sound.
Yeah me too!
@@AmplifyDIY 100% best configuration.
Issue I have is I need to know what you thought, since I only have my headphones to judge the sound. Was it worth buying the extra 2 exciters to flatten the response curve? I would also like to know if wrapping the dual is an issue.
@@boonjabby If you want a fuller more powerful sound then yes. But there are limitations to this style speaker that are inherent with the design and materials, specifically in the high and low ends. But paired with a subwoofer, you can get very satisfying sound from the system. Acoustic instruments sound best and the midrange is actually pretty good.
Curious how movies sound on a pair of these?
Unsanded squares sounded crisp and incredibly exacting and accurate.
However dual exciters setup was clearly the most well balanced/pleasing listening experience.
The subwoofer did add a smoothness to the bottom end,but the level was much to high for my taste.
The most stunning revelation was how lifeless and dead the reference speakers sounded against the panels.
I own a set of those bookshelf monitors and they sound very very good,until now…..
Thank you for your thorough and informative analysis.
I have the same feeling, im listening in my studio and Unsaneded square was the best sounding here. And i have the sound calibrated with soundId. I would try the dual exciters on that panel, i believe that will sound really good!
@@Donder1337 I was about to say the same. The highs are def more crisp unsanded, but are missing the mids that make the dual exciter panels sound more full.
Im listening on Klipsch speakers that has been compared to studio monitors by some reviewers. And listening to those Klipsch bookshelf speakers on my Klipsch they sounded very flat and lifeless when compared to all the other variations. And this is after TH-cam's horrendous audio compression. I can imagine how much better they must sound irl.
Agreed - too much subwoofer on all tests with the subwoofer.
I am planning a build that uses three exciters per panel with carbon fiber honeycomb panels, tweeter dome cutouts and a mid bass box. I may sandblast the surface. Will build it when I can find a good price on the carbon fiber
I was listening with my eyes closed and I kept picking the same two, the dual exciter and the light fabric sets. Your set up and work in doing this is amazing. Thank you so much for taking your time, effort and money to create this content, I think its safe to say that it is greatly appreciated by all.
Thank you, Spicy! I really appreciate hearing what you thought, and am glad you liked the video. I also prefer the dual exciters and light fabric. Thanks for watching!
I’m in agreement on those choices as well! I kind of liked the single exciters with a subwoofer, but it seems like the subwoofer sometimes added too much bass! I’m thinking of trying to build the speakers in the original shape with light fabric AND dual exciters!
I do have a question though, I know you treated so many options, but what about bigger panels? What if you made them 4’ X 4’? Would that have much of an effect negatively or positively?
@@Spetznatz01 Hey Steven - I have not had a chance to test them yet, but I believe that larger panels will do a better job of reproducing lower frequencies. I'd hesitate to call them a replacement for subwoofer, but they should round out the lower end better. If I ever take another swing at testing even more variations / setups, I'll be sure to include some larger panels. Thanks for watching!
@@AmplifyDIY in this video when you were talking about the speakers from the original video did that mean the exciters are placed with the 2/5--3/5 rule on both speakers or 2/5--3/5 on one panel and dead center on the other. I found the dual speaker design the most pleasing but was wondering if you could achieve the same with 2 exciters (1 dead center and the other 2/5--3/5 on the other) rather than 4 exciters with and 1 amplifier rather than 2 as I am on a tight budget.
And thank you very much for all the work you put into this video. Your content is consistently some of the most helpful and enlightening on the platform.
Totally agree. I wonder what a duel exciter w/ light fabric would sound like? Also I noticed the placement was called out as 2/5 2/5 this time rather than 2/5 3/5. Was that intentional?
I watched the original Tech Ingredients video about 2 years ago and was dubious when this video (and your previous one) popped up. I admit that I'm impressed. You gave credit where credit was due and you brought a mountain of value added to the subject. I'm now adding this to my "to do" list.
Thank you, Papa Smurf!
Poor use of grammar! That's not how you use the word dubious... just saying.
@@ricksmediaarchiveyoutube9398 "Fraught with uncertainty or doubt; undecided". Yup. That describes what I initially thought when I started watching his videos. But he came through.
Must be a pretty miserable life you have when the best use of your time is trying to point out perceived grammar mistakes; especially when the intent is crystal clear.
He is right though…
You probably meant curious or doubtful. Dubious are things that are a cause of doubt.
So no need to get that defensive. I too was unsure what you were trying to say and had to read your comment twice.
@@jpw5996 If you're going to attack someone's grammar online, make sure you're correct first. The definition I quoted is the definition I used. I was undecided on his video. I had doubts about his video. Therefore I was dubious about him and his video. Heck, even you said I should have used "doubtful" which is part of the definition of "dubious".
Grammar Nazis are bad enough -- but when the Grammar Nazi is wrong is just over the top.
The effort in editing. The eye and ear for details was amazing thumbs up for great production
Thank you! Cheers!
Two years later I stumble across this video and I am absolutely stunned. Not only by the dramatic difference in sound quality between the Klipsch and the exciter panels, but by the excellence in your scientific approach to sonically document the difference for your viewers. Thanks so much! After 50 years of speaker building I will be building my first pair of exciter panels, while spending a tiny fraction of what I typically spend on a new project. Amazing.
I really liked the balance from the heavy fabric one. My headphones aren't the absolute best but they are clear enough to tell the difference between ever single one of them. The heavy fabric just has a more comfortable feel to it.
I could hear a difference in each one, with my headphones and my speakers here, as well. Very interesting how these sound! I'm glad I didn't make them all, because my house would have speakers hanging everywhere and I would be fumbling to hook them all up! Haha.
Ah good, I’m not the only one to prefer the heavy fabric… though I do wonder how much of that is to do with the response of the headphones I have (which aren’t great, I don’t think.)
The heavy fabric removes the annoying treble peaks.
I think it's total weight of the panel to some extent. The heavier setups had better low response (especially the dual exciter one) but they seemed to muddy the middle a bit. I wonder what it would sound like with a bunch of weights around the edges, or in a resonance cancelling pattern like tech ingredients used. I think, because the weights have a rigid connection, that they would work to drive bass better (at a cost to total amplification) without muffling other frequencies.
Wow, the dual exciter setup is absolutely great!
Maybe you should take that idea and extend it to 5 drivers, 1 per corner and 1 in the middle to reduce resonance in the panels? Probably give a much better bass response too.
That would not be substantially different to just having one exciter in the middle. The resonances are the whole point of the exciters being offset in the first place. The 3/5th (or 2/5th if you will) distances is the Golden Ratio of a square (1/1.618... = 0.618... ~ 3/5th).
Diminishing returns
And
The added weight, and configuration
Would
Induce dampening.
@@amsb4dafunk406 yeah it’s like having more than one subwoofer in an average sized room.
Bad idea to create them symmetricaly. It has to do with how sound travels through the board. If you place exciter in the center - there will be resonant frequencies because the distance between exciter and edges will be equal lenght and at certain frequencies they will interfere. This is why you need to make the speaker rectangle not square and place exciter so distance between exciter and edge is different for all 4 edges. The matematically ideal position of multiple exciters is by using the Fibonachi spiral as template.
@@amsb4dafunk406 Not realy. The original NXT technical documents and patents shows that “moar exciters = moar betterer”.
The thing that has deminishing returns is size of the speakers. Distance between furthest edges of the speaker, to be speciffic.
Larger the speaker - the lower frequencies it can produce. But if tou start to think about making DML speaker for sub-frequencies - the speaker will be so big that it will be more practical to just get a subwoofer.
:D
I found the dual exciter with subwoofer sounded best. There was warmth in the tone. The sub sounded a bit heavy-handed and blended the best in the classical track where it helped the cellos come through. However, after TH-cam compresses this video and my Bluetooth compresses it again, there's no telling what is getting lost. What an incredible video. You're a legend!
Thank you, Jedi Master!
I agree with you if we are just considering the panels. However, the shop bought speakers were generally better.
I built a pair a couple of weeks ago and this test is really helpful. From what I can discern, the dual exciters give a fuller sound. And I agree with most of the comments that the subwoofer was cranked too high, but that's an easy fix. I'm also hooking up a 21-band eq to reduce the mid to mid highs (which these DMLs seem to be good at producing) and boosting the mid-lows. And lastly, a slight boost to the highest frequency range.
Thanks, AmplifyDIY.
And for those that are laughing at these speakers as if they're crap... If you didn't build these and listen with your own ears, your opinion is not rooted in fact. But thanks for sharing... I guess?
Dual exciters sounded best. I felt like they needed bass, but the sub you had didn’t sound good to me. The heavy fabric also sounded good and i think pairing theses up would be a great idea. I would love to see dual exciters on a round shape. Thanks for an excellent video!
Thanks for sharing your impressions!
I agree. The normal panels have much more treble, but the subwoofer just made it sound like a cheap tv soundbar. Lots of low bass, lots of treble, but a lot less mids. The fabric and dual exciters were definitely the best, and I’d like to see how they would sound paired up.
possibly the crossover frequency was set a bit high on the sub?
@@brianburke808 Yes I think that you are right.
@@brianburke808 That's the problem with these panel speakers. You have to set the sub high-pass to around 150 hz because these speakers have precious little deep bass no matter how large the panels are. If you cross the sub high and place it in between the speakers, you should be able to get a good blend.
I'd love to hear dual exciters with heavy and light fabric.
Or, in my opinion Heavy fabric middle and Light fabric offset per channel may be the best option. Also some size variations would be interesting and possibly circle with middle mount for lows because i think that may help
Either way, fabric does add something unexplainable that makes them better than the rest.
this is exactly what I was thinking, the fabric is taking some sharpness out of it i think, and Im surprised that the dual exciters worked out. also interesting that i think the fixed mount had a bit more natural low to it, but being mounted to those tripods vs a wall would be interesting too
I fully agree on the fabric, it's weird right?
This is THE best comparison video between versions of a theme in speakers. There are horses for courses as each example showed with the differing genres of music presented. But I'm definitely going to have a crack at making a set. Thank you so much for the effort in putting this together.
Cheers
Pete'.
Thank you, Pete!
I think what makes this so good is the fact you can experiment with setups cheaply and get the best setup that suits your preference in sound, I myself am curious about mounting them Horizontally on a ceiling!
First off, Let me Thank You for an amazing video. Your dedication and attention to detail on editing really created some of the best content I've ever enjoyed on TH-cam. Second, I took a page from your playbook, and used 3 different high quality headphones and then finally, through my speaker array to listen to your results. I must say, ALL of your home made speakers sounded amazing, no matter what I used to listen. Personal preference?
The duals with the subwoofer. Hands Down. The rich, full sound won me over...
I am a huge fan of Klipsch Speakers, but I found them to sound rather dull in comparison. (that says a lot!) Your attention to detail when editing was most impressive though. Seamless.
I subbed, liked, and am going to try to locate 4 identical exciters now, and make my own set to replace this stack of various speakers in my hobby room. (keeping my 300 watt sub though!) Again, THANK YOU for your hard work and attention to details!
You are too kind! Thank you very much for the feedback, and I hope you enjoy your panels!
Did you make your dyi speakers yet? If so, how did they come out?
@@kare9875 I have not. Work has been really busy. (I know, lousy excuse...) trust me. these are on my to-do list!
Absolutely brilliant video. So much hard work you have put in. What a service you are doing to those many of us thinking of doing this. Thank you.
bro the effort you went through for this video and the previous one along with your presentation is so dang pro. good job.
This was a surprisingly awesome video and I thank you for the tremendous amount of time, dedication and effort you put into this. These speakers ARE definitely a great bang for the buck.
What an amazing effort to answer community questions! Thanks for the work and the excellent editing.
Wow! Thanks lots. So thorough!
I have been dancing the idea around in my head for well over a year now, since I saw that original video on how to use the actuators. I have lots of decor ideas to blend the speakers seamlessly, but they all depend upon so many variables I didn't have answers to that my plans usually end with me chasing my tail, metaphorically, not being able to pin any sure starting points down without lots of false starts.
Tada! You answered nearly everything I wondered, so I can mix and match with reasonable knowledge to start from. Thank you so much!
Thank you for the thorough testing! Yours and Tech Ingriedeint's Videos are a great combination!
Thank you for putting so much work into this and and for such clean editing and presentation!
I was thinking about building some after seeing the Tech Ingredients channel and your exploration on the topic really helps flesh these out! Outstanding work, Thank you!
My favorite was the dual with sub support, but for my personal taste the sub could be turned down a decent bit to make it just a support speaker. Amazing video, I can see lots of work was put in, not just in the setup of all the speakers, but the immaculate mixing of sound during the speaker swaps. I may have to talk my wife into letting me set up a set like this :D
I agree with your point about the sub. It seemed too strong or a bit muddy.
I agree 100%
Dual with only a touch of sub
I was monitoring with a paior of Sennheiser HD650 headphones, and thought while the sub added a big roundness, it was too heavy.
Obviously the best was dual Exciters with the sub. I have the duals on 2x4 though and dual subs and for the back channel I put duals on 2 guitars just for fun lol. Took my Towers out lol. These panels sound better and it's like the singers are right in front of you Live. Nice job !!
I thought without the sub TBH - although I think tuning that sub and levelling it out might improve that.
What do you mean duals on 2 x 4?
@@JohnJeppson I think 2 x 4 is a wooden plank measurement/type. "two by four". But I'm not sure that's what they are reffering to ofc ^^
Same opinion
@@EmilParkour yeah usually it means 2" x4"
Here maybe he means 2' x 4'
So a large rectangle rather than a square?
Who knows.
I don't understand why, but the dual exciters seemed more "solid" both in sound and imaging, while not giving up the "airiness" of the original design. The subwoofer with those (if the sub was turned down some, maybe a lower rolloff point set too) would be a pretty amazing set!
Most of the others sounded similar to me, with the triangles sounding as I expected they would (a hair thinner) but having a nice "lift" in the physical soundstage. I thought the biggest disappointment were the Fixed Mount panels... to my ears they had a harsh edge compared to the other panels.
Absolutely fascinating! I want to see what happens if you size up the panels, and if there's a point of diminishing returns on size increase, or if you could hang 50 ft x 50 ft panels from a crane and have it sound better than whatever the previous step down would be... lol
Totally agree. How great was this guys test!!
I too am curious about 50x50ft 😂 -or other large sizes.. and if 2 exciters was good... More? 🤔 Haha🔥 -fun and cheap project to do some personal experiments with, love it!
I think it's because the boards are too heavy for one exciter to move the board adequately over large distances.
I think the length plays a role in frequencies they are able to produce. Longer panels should give a richer sound i reckon.
Dual exciter setup! And damn! The difference it made was incredible! When you changed from original to dual felt like going from mono to surround!
Awesome job and thanks for putting so much time, energy and effort just to test something like this!
Keep it up!
*Edited so people get what I ment to say. Wrote it in pure joy and rambled on and missed some words 🤣
Great test, very well done with the seamless editing, I personally have a pair of these working at home in the spare room suspended from fishing line with the balsa panels decorated with artwork so that they do not jump out at you as speakers. They just provide a reasonable sound for back ground when working. On your test the dual exciter really stood our as having the best sound to me. I'm off to buy another pair of exciters and retro fit. I also think you have potentially doubled the sales of exciters. Nice job !
I'm amazed by how differently the music types influenced the different renditions.
Thanks for the thorough demonstration.
I've never heard classical / acoustic instruments represented better than on these panels. It *really* sounds like a live performance.
@@AmplifyDIY That's probably because most string instruments produce sound via something like DML where the entire body of the instrument vibrates. Also, classical tends to benefit most from instrument separation which I think DML does surprisingly well!
Incredible how much work you put into this one just to give us the best set up possible! Thank you so much!!! Love from Germany 🇩🇪👍👍👍
Wow, thank you!
Firstly a big thank you for doing this huge project. I'm just looking into this type of set-up and also new to home audio. As mentioned many times already in the feedbacks, the dual exciters sounded great and I liked the sub added in. The triangle suits me the best and possibly with the light material cover. Looking to hang in the lounge. Oh yes great work on over-lapping the tracks.
To my ear the dual exciters with subwoofer sounded the best, and dual exciters setup being a strong follower. All other modifications only worsened the thing to some degree. It was also amazing to see and hear how a tiny modification can change the sound dramatically. Unbelievable.
Thanks for great video and for taking a trouble of making it.
To me, the originals sounded best. I could hear the potential when the subwoofer was added (my second choice), but to me this particular subwoofer sounded a bit muddy with each accompaniment. I would be interested in the originals with a better subwoofer. Kudos for really well done editing. Could showing how you edited this please be your next subject?
Hey Joseph! Thanks for watching and sharing your impressions! The muddy sub is mostly due to the mics I used for the recording. In person, it was pretty clean, if a bit loud. I could have turned it down some, but I like a fatter low end.
As for how I edited it: it’s easily the most complex timeline of any of my projects to date. It’s a very very good thing that DaVinci Resolve (the editor I use) allows an unlimited number of video tracks! I basically added all 12 recordings to the project timeline, synced them up perfectly, then added about a bajillion jump cuts between them. Piece of cake! (That took weeks!)
Dude how can u judge over a lavalier mic xD 😅🤦♂️
It's not a huge surprise that they did, because if you ever watched the original videos from Tech Ingredients, you know they went through a lot of testing to find optimal materials, shapes, and exciter positioning. They even combined several different panels per stereo channel, to create a particularly flat response curve.
@@boimesa8190 he wasn't using a lav for the testing part...
@@brei2670 Which ***SHOULD*** produce the best dynamic range possible, and it did improve things.. I think a combination of exciters, each with a panel it drives, would probably be best. Think of it like a 3-way exciter setup, per channel of sound. It would take a bit of work to find exciters & panels that match up, but should be legit when done.
This is a fantastic piece of work. Thank you very much and I will follow up on this. I love the original speakers design.
I like many want to thank you for all the work you put into this video. Great job. It made it very easy to hear the differences in the setups. The initial switch from the Klipsch to the panels was jarring. The panels sounded hollow in the vocal range, but the dual exciters improve the situation a lot. Thank you again!
Btw, the solid mounts have a little more base response, curious how a twin solid mount exciter would stack up to a twin floating exciter. Btw, check out antigravity Bluetooth speaker. It’s basically an exciter but meant to be portable. Slap it on a desk or car window or tool box and turns it into a speaker. My wife and I used on the shower door when we were on vacation lol. If you hang it vertical you need to make sure the both service are incredible clean for it to stick. Actually now that I’m thinking of it, I can use my antigravity speaker to test different material properties before building one.
Digging the "Chopped" shirt...representing MCM!!
And a Vice Grip Garage hat also. Great taste in TH-cam car channels!
haha! I was gonna say the exact same thing. 😊
Yup, came here to say the same.
This is amazing. Major points for doing all of the testing and A plus on the editing work. By far my favorite are the dual exciters. I think the sanded panel with dual exciters and a light fabric may just be the winner for me.
Excellent series of tests. Loved the original by Tech Ingredients and have had the video bookmarked since he released it.
I have to admit how good these are, especially the curved corner squares with Dual Exciters and Subwoofer. These sounded best to my ears. I am tempted to give this ago now myself.
Absolutely amazing amount of work and effort, It's fantastic! The dual exciters through your setup and the countless other variables sounded interesting. I wonder if they could be set up so one exciter is smaller and vibrates only on higher frequencies while the other is bigger and responsible for lower frequencies.
Like a woofer and tweeter? I would want to try a large and small panel separately to emulate that.
Really like this video, the way you break it up into segments is nice to be able to reference a particular aspect for comparison. Good job!!
Thanks, Craig! Incidentally - based on your username I suspect you are in the cabinetry business.... I've tried these exciters on the glass door of a medium-sized cabinet, and they sounded great there as well... Might be an opportunity to design a new novel concept for something like kitchen or bathroom ambient music....
Such a helpful video. Thank you for your time & effort!
Glad it was helpful!
Imo the dual exciter sounds most pleasing to my ears. I was stunned how much difference there was between sanded and unsanded though.
If I was to try to build these, I'd go dual exciters, unsanded squares, with light fabric. Seems like the best compromise between looks and sound.
Beat me to it obviously.
And a subwoofer.
@@harrisondodge6956 I'm thinking about doing some longbois kind of hidden in an accent wall behind the tv in this method. dual driver, home made sub (using a flat pack kit) built into the floating shelf as part of the design.
Thanks for your work.
I was amazed at how muddy the Klipsch speakers sounded in comparison to any of the panel speakers.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome job. Thanks for doing all that work!
Thanks for watching!
I'm sure many, including myself appreciate the work you put into this video. Outstanding that you kept the music going between panels, makes all the difference!! Heard in isolation the Klipsch would sound ok for a small box speaker. When you brought the heavy guns in it all started to happen and the Klipsch sounded thin and boxy.
Are these panel jobbies the last word? Of course not, but bang for buck they're phenomenal. Much bigger soundstage than the box speakers, and solo instruments really did the biz. Skip the dual exciters and the sub, and any of them sound brilliant. I liked the triangles particularly.
Mine are in a mdf frame, four panels each a foot square, so 4.5 feet high and 15 inches wide, each array.The panel edges fixed to the frame with duct tape. Each panel has an exciter which is rigidly fastened to a rigid spine. I did this because I used coroplast and I doubted it will support an exciter long term. I love 'em, though the treble is a little down. I hope to fix this by adding a tweeter and a separate crossover. Don't like crossovers much and I hoped to make these arrays truly full range, but alas not. A separate tweeter might fix things.
I tried several amps. My fleawatt tube amp wasn't particularly interested. My various mini Chinese amps did a lot better but currently I'm using my Adcom power amp with separate volume pot. It's around 100 wpc, very beefy, and still performs well despite being nearly 30 years old. It makes these panels fly....
The unsanded originals are crispy! I have some 'super bass' exciters I want to play with in my shop. I tried this out probably 2 years ago and yes, they are much louder than 'traditional' drivers.
Dual exciter configuration is the most versatile at least to my ear. Super cool video!! Thank you so much!
And thank you for your great demonstration and time invested.
Definitely the dual exciters. They added a lot more body to the music. I’d say they do need a subwoofer added tho. They just can’t get those wormer or heavier sounds by themselves. I actually have two of the same exact pink foam pieces. I got them for a windows a/c that I no longer need them for. I was going to return them but after seeing this I’m definitely going to keep them and make a set of these and hang them behind my couch for a cheep yet seemingly effective surround sound.
awesome editing on the switches. too me the real surprises were the triangles seemed to have a deeper resonance than the squares. though to be honest the dual exciter setup was the cleanest sounding.
That was a serious amount of work you did.
Thank you for that, it was amazing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for your efforts in showing the comparisons. The extra effort on your part has opened my eyes to several different options that I had not considered. I think that the fabric, specifically the one that you called "heavy fabric" introduced a bit of the mid into audible response. So too did the mounted, as well as the dual exciters. Now I'm interested in how a mounted dual exciter with "heavy fabric" would sound. I wonder if the combined options would balance out the benefits of the others or if they would all compliment the others and bring even more mid into the audible response. Again, thank you for your additional efforts.
I really liked the dual exciter with subwoofer I will be making a pair thank you for your video
Good choice!
I've made a few of these, just had to hear it for myself. It really is amazing. Not that the sound is amazing, but that the sound produced by this setup can be reasonably used in an entertainment system setup. The exciters I'm using are being fed by Arylic DIY wifi boards, for perfectly syncronized music throughtout the house. Adequate, and soooo much cheaper than Sonos.......
Thank You for a very through test of all your speaker construction designs. I like the idea of mounting the exciter to a frame. Building a housing to make this look even better would be the next step. A wood frame with the foam board isolated from the frame and a cloth cover could make a great set of speakers that could match any decor. LOL, just what I needed, another hobby project.
👍Thanks a lot for all youre's tests... Its really appreciate to discover all kind of possible way !
This is great testing! THanks for doing this! Something I would like to hear and that I don’t think anybody tested is in a surround sound setup. Maybe 5 smaller panel like 12x12 with a sub. Curious to hear how this sounds.
Wow. great editing. Going to the reference and using different music genres was top notch! I dont know what sounded the best to me so im hoping to see more videos on the topic. even if its just a lazy one discussing viewr comments or such. :) thanks
Thanks Waka! I don't have specific follow-ups planned yet, but do have a bunch of ideas for more interesting testing that I could do... Thanks for watching!
Thanks for doing the work of testing this
Super useful !
I appreciate the effort that went into this video. Nice work here!
Much appreciated, Joel - Thanks for watching!
I am just learning about these fantastic speakers, I first came across them from a video “SHOULD SPEAKERS THIS GOOD BE LEGAL?” By tech ingredients. They made a fantastic video and I think you should make one more video using some of the things they used. Some differences include using acoustic ceiling tiles to get more of that mid range as well as the foam for a combined balance. They also connect the drivers to the tiles and foam via a small puddle of epoxy on the back of the foam/tile, dried, and then stuck to that. The glassy layer of dried epoxy gives the drivers a much better connection. They also used a rectangle shape to further eliminate any reverberating tones in the boards.
Great video and presentation! Will definitely be trying this as a project over the holidays with my kids. Not sure, but I think you might have had the sub turned up too high, which will really distort the sound. You would also benefit from an external Dac to get crisper sound. But these are trivial matters that are easily resolved. Congrats. Look forward to seeing more stuff in the future (you might also consider some Audiophile music for your presentations. Can’t go wrong with Ella)
Wow! Man you put down some work for this!! Thanks 😊
It was fun to produce. :) Thanks for watching!
Incredible experiment! Thank you so much!
I really liked the editing. It made it much easier to compare them all together. I think I liked the dual exciters with subwoofer setup. It sounded “live” to me.
Great feedback. Thank you! I'll be sharing my thoughts in a few days.
@@AmplifyDIY I concur with this. The dual with the sub to my ear over both headphones and my Yamaha HS8 sounded the most "balanced", most of the other configs seemed a little "tingy" and while loud def swung more toward the high freq IMO.
Conversely, I found the dual exciters with subwoofer setup to be very odd. With a very odd time delay/echo with an over-strong boomy bass. In fact any combination used with the subwoofer sound way too bass-heavy & boomy to me, except for the light classical section where both the material covered versions with & without the sub sounded great, but you can't really have different speaker setups for different types of music, now can you? Any combination I found the duel exciters to be very odd as mentioned above. I could probably put that down to a phase shift between the two exciters having different acoustic centres & a waterfall effect as the waves from the two different exciters cross paths & their phase differences will either add or subtract from the output depending on frequency & arrival times. It might sound good to some people, but so does singing in an echoey environment like the shower. I would be very interested to hear what larger single exciter panels would sound like, or a multi-panel setup with panels of different sizes, using a decent crossover & correctly phase/time alignment. Perhaps that's more a project for Danny Richie at GR-Research? Thanks very much for all your hard work setting these tests up, that's very much appreciated.🙂
@@Christographer_UK Awesome write up - thank you for taking the time! I think you have a very good ear.. your description of what's going on with dual exciters is on point. :)
Amazing! I'd like to think I can tell the difference, but with my eyes closed, all that I could notice a difference on was the subwoofer and the dual exciter.
amazing video thank you so much for all the effort its really appreciated. the dual exciters sounded the best for me
Thanks for watching, 256!
Thank you very much for this video. Exactly what I was looking for.
Great to hear!
I am using a set of Dayton DAEX25X4-4 bullfrog on a 24"x30"x1" panel (Cut down from a Foamular 150 8'x4' panel), I widened the cut lines in the panel slightly to prevent vibration from the seams colliding but also made a noticeable difference in the lows. Deems to have a much fuller and more natural sound when compared to 1 or 2 exciter per panel or 4 panels in the method used in the Tech Ingredients video. I use them for music and movies outdoors (when the weather is appropriate).
I also did a set of DAEX32EP-4 with a stretchy nylon that cut down on some of the harsh peaks in the high range; I used 3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive around the back edge. Using the wrong adhesive or going heavy with the spray paint melts the foam and creates areas of higher density and ruins the sound.
Also, Using a full range amp sounds significantly better even without a sub. I found with 3 different models of amp that the cheap crossover cuts out the lower range even when set to lowest possible setting on the High Pass filter.
What do you mean by widened the cut lines?
The large panels are meant for construction use and have lines scored into the panel. These lines allow the panels to be broken or cut easier during installation on a construction site.
@@nerdingtech8111 thank you
@Netwrok, would you please tell us where you placed the DAEX25X4-4 bullfrog on the panel? Thanks!
I'm having tough time picking out a favorite. The duals, despite the comments below, to me sound like the gain is cranked too high or something and we've got some clipping or something going on. The originals still sounded pretty good. Triangles were slightly brighter no doubt because of their smaller surface area. Light and heavy fabric was tough to say.
Maybe I just don't have good taste, but I don't think I really liked the edition of the binaural microphone. To me, your lapel mic or whatever mic you used last time had better clarity. Thank you for the video, was highly anticipating it. My second time through trying to decide my favorite
yeah, the lapel mic is the way to go, but love the binaural for the music sampling
Interferometry?
I also thought I heard clipping, but for me, it wasn't just the DIY panels. I heard it on the fancy speakers, too, in the hard rock / metal portion. It might be my audio setup, though. In any case, the clipping I hear is so omnipresent that it feels hard for me to judge the sound.
You put a lot of work into this test. I respect that
Amazing job setting this up! The only curious thought I have would adding holes of various sizes/shapes change the panels. I am mostly thinking of circles, ovals as well as squares and rectangles.
Just a thought of what the holes would do whether good or bad.
I would love to see this test again with some bass traps in the room. That subwoofer level was WAY
too high as well. The panels themselves sound good, the dual exciters sounded the best by far with the uncovered originals coming in second to my ears.
Dual exciters definitely sounded better to me. I'd love to see/hear the dual exciters set-up combined with each of the cloth covered setups,
and then each of these paired with, and without, a 12" quality subwoofer.
I couldn't tell if shape and sanding made that much of a difference. If it doesn't hurt the sound that much I definitely have a special shape in mind 🙂
Each of the two setups
Thank you for this video. A lot of effort is put in to this. Subbed and liked!
Much appreciated!
Great experiment! Really appreciate the work you put into it!!! Thank you!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I found the Dual exiters with the subwoofer the best. Very balanced and a good amount of bass.
Agreed!
wow. great video. thanks for all that work in the making and the seamless editing. i would be interested in what Dayton Audio has suggested on the exciter info page on Edge Termination and Damping. They say it can add clarity and enhanced transient response.
Wow, what a great task you did here. To answer so many comments is just awesome. Many youtubers could learn from you. AND just awesome test and great speakers. Thansk
Hey hfranke07 - thank you very much for your comment, and for watching! :)
To clarify: they did say these are the best “budget” speakers. Birch wood end grain is __very slightly__ better in terms of sound quality, but foam panel is by far the best without spending $$$$$.
Based on what I heard with my high end headphones I think I’m going to give a build a try with dual exciters, unsanded, uncut panels with my particular amp and eq setup and see how it sounds and go from there.
Ever try that setup?
What an outstanding amount of work, attention to detail, communicating those details to us, and editing like this 🏆🏆
Thank you so much 😀
bro... that was so much information, I appreciate your dedication to this channel
Thanks, Drucifer!
Clearly the dual exiters sounded “best”, with the triangle dual exiters in the 2nd place. But for me there is way too much mid-upper range. I would tone down those a bit with eq
That is exactly what I do with my daex25x4-4 DML's - I eq the high frequencies down a good deal, also a sub woofer tuned to the speakers is a must, takes DML's to a new level.
I vote for the Triangles as first, followed up by the originals. The dual exciter ones blurred the imaging to my ear. I used KZ ZSX with a FIIO BTR5 to listen. I could hear the solidity that people who prefer the dual Exciter set up we're speaking of but to me it wasn't worth the loss in the airiness and imaging to me. That sub left a lot to be desired to my ear. It seemed to be overly resonant, almost a one note wonder.
Its been a long time since I’ve seen such a professional video hats off to you my guy
Just found these DML videos, had to watch/listen because it was very meta, hearing your DML tests on my DML panels (Rocking with lexan currently).
Well done on the editing, loved it.
How do you like the performance of the lexan?
@@AmplifyDIY have tried foamular like you,, ceiling tiles,, Birchwood ply project panels and lexan so far and with 2 24x24 and 2 24 x 48 panels, lexan seems to have a little less overall quality compared to foamular (don't have that golden ear though). Still an impressive experience. Hope you keep the updates going on these panels, I love exploring their use.
I found it depended greatly on what type of music was being played. I liked the panels on classical type music, very airy and open. To me the sub was overpowering. I thought the light fabric faired well, and the triangle also. Heavier fabric gave more bass, and dual exciters gave more reverb. I have a set of speakers that play well-recorded music very well, but not older poor recordings, or newer highly compressed music. This test reminded me a lot of that experience. I listened to this on BT headphones which are probably not super great.
I love this idea and they sound great, couldn't tell the difference between solid mount and floating which made me think, what if you could make these "float" inside a box, this would improve base by inadvertently making itself a passive speaker while still being active, you could use fishing wire as you have here and have a gap around the box opening (speaker to box wall) of around 1 to 2 mm, you could also do this and cover the entire thing in fabric so you wouldn't see the panel but it could make for a great base box seat speaker :)
Great idea!
I know you did the triangles, and that was appreciated (and an interesting sound) but I believe the /original/ idea was to have a rectangular shape in order to produce additional wavelengths than even a square with an offset exciter could do.
Based on this video, I'll be making rectangular speakers with dual exciters, covered with light fabric and a subwoofer. I probably won't bother doing much sanding as I didn't notice much of a difference.
Thank you for doing all the work to make this video! Super helpful!
Amazing video. I have done the “flat panel” speaker project before and am about to do version 2.0 for me. Your video helped me eliminate some of the alternatives I was thinking of trying. Thank you.
Glad it was useful!
I've got some opinions about what sounded the best based on what I heard while performing all these tests, but I'm holding off on sharing that until I've heard from lots of you about what you think. Was there a specific design that worked better than others? Was one design better for one type of music than another?
With all of the layers of variables between your speakers and our ears, including the microphone you are using, as well as the quality of the speakers your audience is hearing the sound from, I don't think any of our opinions on the sound comparison between any of the speaker sets is going to be at all objective. Your opinion, being the guy who is there in person, is the only one that matters.
The specific way I set up and did the testing was designed to eliminate many of the variables that you mention: it's not about how "good" any specific setup sounded, but rather how each setup sounded *compared to* the others. That's why I hopped from design to design during each track, so you could hear the subtle differences between them.
@@AmplifyDIY the only part i found hard to deal with that is how the music would play continuously, rather than looped. They all "sound" good when playing, but it's really tough to pick out which one sounds the best since we never really hear the same signal repeated across each of the test subjects.
It may seem like a huge bore to us, but I think a couple test samples repeated across all of them and then played one after the other may serve as a better comparison rather than letting a whole song play through and switching variables at different time frames.
@OtherDalfite - yes, I struggled for a long time to try to figure out the best way to present the testing. I do have full 16 minute recordings of every single speaker setup, and I spliced them up the way I did in this video simply because it was the best way (to my ear) to accentuate the differences in the panels.
But I still have the full recordings....
@@AmplifyDIY hey, I'm not saying you have to, but if you're willing to put the time in and cut some important sections you think of together and play them one after the other and maybe do some analysis on them, I'd really appreciate it! Regardless of your choice, the information you gave here is awesome.
Dual exciter with square (not rounded (as it gave out more bass) ) sanded and light fabric(for color options) with subwoofer this combination will sound the best. Try it.
This video is so well done I subscribed right away. 👍
Thank you JediMaster!
your thoroughness and editing is beyond great,well done! inspired a project to do with my son(10)
Have a great time with your project!