My New (more epic) DML System!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- (Apologies for the audio levels, doesn't look like I can fix them post-upload)
Another year, another build... except that I have no such schedule and anyway, this one is already mostly built.
Having scrapped my previous build plans last year I decided to go all out and put together a rather more expansive system instead.
Witness the (provisional) result - a digital, active, 2.2 channel powerhouse using acrylic DML panels for the mains.
Components:
- Wiim Pro streamer: www.wiimhome.com/wiimpro/over...
- MiniDSP Flex: www.minidsp.com/products/mini...
- Hypex FA503 Amp: www.hypex.nl/products/amplifi...
- Dayton Audio Thruster IHM: www.daytonaudio.com/product/1...
- Dayton Audio RSS315HO Sub: www.daytonaudio.com/product/1...
The main build may be done but it's not near finished yet, as I'm just entering the 'incessant tweaking' phase and it's this that I plan to document on my channel.
A few things I will definitely be doing:
- Playing around with the DSP crossovers
- Seeing how low I can boost the bass
- Adding a tweeter or HF panel
- Experimenting with Dirac Live room correction
A few things I might also do:
- Add side wing/s to separate front and back waves on the panel
- Probably a bunch of weird and/or ineffective stuff.
If you'd like to see me semi-blindly trying stuff out, please consider subscribing.
I'll either see you next time, or I won't.
Ben - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
First! Love your stuff
Congrats! And thank you :D
Looks like fun. It will be interesting to see how this material compares to the others
All well explained. Glad you’ve steered your project toward a goal you prefer. Best!
I really enjoy and appreciate your videos and the time and effort you put in to sharing your experience. Thanks!
I appreciate that!
I was waiting on this video! I appreciate all the tweaking, it's helped a lot while working on my own DML setup!
Amazing, glad they’ve been helpful!
Ben, great to see you back! Wishing you all the best!
Thanks Greg!
thanks for sharing your expierience - great work!
I am very impressed with you're work bro I look forward to working with people like you in future projects 😊
Thank you!
Definitely recommend a super tweeter.
Love this iteration.
Thanks!
Looks really cool and your presentation is excellent. I recommend making some absorbing panels with rockwool insulation because that room has a lot of echo.
Hey Ryan, thanks so much! Some room treatment is definitely on the cards. To what extend I'm not sure yet - let's just say I'm in negotiations!
Glad you're back! I'm planning to make my own system so I'll definitely be taking notes. My impression was that you get better acoustic performance from the panels when they're isolated, ideally just hanging from fishing line. I'm curious if you considered that and why you decided to go with more rigid mounts.
Thanks a lot! Regarding the panels, I started out free-hanging them and moved onto this type of setup. I think it's more complicated that saying one is better than the other - it's really going to depend on the clamping/attachment, panel material etc. Some materials are more inherently 'damped' than others and methods of supporting the panel can vary from free-hanging right through to 'all sides clamped' so there's a lot of variation there.
Basically my acrylic panels are fairly 'dead' (internally damped) compared to the various foam products and things like that, but don't feel over-damped by using this clamping method at 6 points. I suspect if I clamped them all around, they'd be too dead sounding.
I'm also not worried about bass performance on the panels so depending on what you want out of them, YMMV!
Hi Ben good to see you again, still experimenting with dml speakers,I also took my videos down because of personal reasons, looking at your new idea I can see a lack of materials, if you use one material in this case Acrilic, your limited to the sound you can create, if you use more than one material the sound will improve massively.😊 The more materials you use with standoffs attached to the main board the better the sound.
I look forward to your videos. :)
thanks for posting.
Cool to see you back. 2 things:
1. If you add a tweeter, consider Dayton's AMT tweeters. Not only are they also Dayton, but Air Motion Transformers are really just tougher ribbon tweeters. (a bit of a simplification, TBH)
2. No matter how much you EQ or overpower those 12s, there's going to be a limit to how well they'll perform below 40-ish hertz. Volume in the 20-40hz octave is almost entirely a function of air displacement per stroke, which is a fuction of cone area and xmax (or xmech, I suppose, but xmax details the linear/controlled movement limits where the coil has full coverage, so yeah.)
I think I heard in a video at some point that to get twice as low, you need 4x the excursion to produce the same (audible to the human ear) volume. So if your "flat" EQ is already x-maxing those 12s at 40hz, then they aren't gonna be worth a damn in the 20-30hz range. And all of that's to say nothing about potentially damaging the subs or how impedance/box rise will make adding power an exponentially diminishing return.
I'll take a look at those AMTs - I'm always attracted by anything even slightly out of the ordinary...
Thanks for the feedback on the subs. I guess the implication is that a pair of 12s may not be enough regardless of configuration (due to cone area limitations)? I've tuned the bass boost (via the hypex filters) purely by ear so far so I will be very interested to see how it measures in-room. Presumably the room itself plays a big role at such frequencies.
@@TypicalBenYT It's always cone area multiplied by x-max/x-mech that determines air displacement per stroke. Air displacement per stroke determines loudness/pressure. Yeah, having a bigger room means more air you have to move per stroke to get volume, and there's also quarter wave resonance BS to worry about, too, but that's all somewhat advanced.
To be completely honest, unless you're a basshead like me and/or like listening at loud volumes (85-100DB at the ear for the midrange freqs) the two 12s should be fine. If not, you can probably still use some 12s if you want the midbass and lower mids to not "beam," but you'll have to look into some that have much more xmax and then change your enclosure configuration and whatnot.
And also carefully select a driver that can somehow still act dual purpose as a 25-100hz and 100-200hz driver.
But like I said, unless you're a basshead or loud listener (and especially both) you should be fine. If your system manages a 10db/oct rise (at the ear) from 200hz down to 25hz at the volumes (of the midrange frequencies) you typically listen at, you're doing good enough.
Thanks for sharing…
it’s my understanding that the panels themselves should move freely, any chance you will try or show the difference of the exciters mounted with free panels vs the dampened panels?
I am also thinking about trying some experiments with materials and shapes.
They can be free hanging - I did a (sort of) comparison in a previous video: th-cam.com/video/NoTnezzndV4/w-d-xo.html
The materials are different so it's not really 'apples to apples' though. Really I believe it comes down to the material used for the panel - different materials will have different amounts of 'internal damping' so there won't be a single solution that suits every design.
@@TypicalBenYT Thanks, the acrylic would need the dampers, I might try the type TI tried on the back vs the edges.
Love the work, and I have to say those look and sound amazing. I like the DIY groove. The kind of minimalistic design is very, very nice. You have inspired me. sir! I am going to start working on my system, I want to try all DML speakers for my Sony Dolby Atmos. Why not!?
Thanks so much! That's great I reckon they'll be really nice as surround speakers.
You in Syd ?
Ever come to Nelson Bay ?
Get you to help improve my canvas art DMLs 😁
Ah I’m up in Brissy. Interested to hear more about the canvas panels though I’ve wanted to give it a go but haven’t done anything yet.
@@TypicalBenYT
Oh, well I'm in Qld atm lol, holidaying back home in Townsville.
I printed two 60cm canvases at Big W, glued them to the green XPS foam from Bunnings and suspended them inside box frames I made.
Back again eh? love what you have done! I have a fun Idea for a panel. Maybe I will make a video of it.... and a community is formed hahahahaha
👍 If you're not getting enough high's using that material, something is definitely wrong. That's a hell of a set-up you've got there, very nice!
Thanks! I agree and as far as my ears go (no measurements yet) there's nothing lacking. I'm wondering more if there would be a noticeable improvement quality-wise by handing off the HF to a small panel or tweeter - maybe 'delicacy' is the right word, or something like that. I'm also interested in whether it could increase the 'height' of the sound, since I didn't make the main panels all that tall. As always, there's one good way to find out!
I would go for ribbon tweeters for delicacy if your sitting in a fixed spot during listening. Keep us posted man, look forward to more videos.@@TypicalBenYT
Since the main topic has been dml, I’d like more info about why you abandoned the previous project, what led you to the current design, the principles it embodies, how it measures, and why you think it’s adequate now. Thanks for the new video.
Hey Paul - more design commentary and measurements will be coming for sure. As far as the abandoned project - it's a lot to do with aesthetics I suppose. I was trying to fit 12" subwoofer boxes underneath 2 panels and a tweeter, so it ended up being over 150cm in total height which I didn't really like in my room. I could have maybe adjusted that design rather than scrapping it altogether but decided it better to start 'from scratch' with the components I'd already purchased, to see what I could make.
For example, freed from the constraints of the tower form-factor I was able to build larger sub boxes (still not huge but these are around 30% larger than previous), which will allow me to push them deeper with less power. When the panel isn't built on top of the box, it can go right down to the floor which gives me more surface area 'for free' and I suspect might also improve the character of the floor reflections (as yet unproven) etc.
As far as being happier with this design, so far it's all subjective but based on the above reasons I do believe I'll be able to get more performance out of this setup.
@@TypicalBenYT thanks for your response. Yes I was doubtful of that setup bc subs need to be positioned to help eliminate room modes, and joining them to the mains means you cant do that. Good luck with the current build.
Look into tectonic's BMR speakers. They're very small, but VERY nice. They have a very wide dispersion at super high frequencies, which is interesting, and they can cross over way lower than most tweeters can (because they're not tweeters). They play well up into ultrasonic ranges easy.
These are the little 2.5" drivers? Would be an interesting 'tweeter' for panels like these...
Yeah, they have a few sizes. 1" to 3.5". The 2" one specifically has astonishing dispersion characteristics. I have some old bookshelf speakers I am playing with, and I am going to replace the tweeter with one of those, and I'm getting a woofer that has very good directivity up to slightly above 2KHz. My plan is to cross them over very low, but with a first order crossover. Should be interesting!
nice some DML building ! there is a major hiss in the recording though mainly on the right channel :( not sure if you recorded to low or use a camera with really bad sound :( my camera sucks in sound to and needed to use a dedicated simple zoom, to make it sound somewhat decent. i recommend buying one second hand if you can. since now i have no clue, how it sounds right now. anyhow cool someone is putting effort in making dml's anyways !
Great thanks for the feedback I’ll see what I can do for the future!
Cool!
Cheers 🍻
Ben,
Initially, I would like to commend you for your content and I particularly liked this build and the final result.
I have a question for you if you are still monitoring this thread and inclined to respond.
My Audio system consists of
Denon 4311 9 channel audio visual receiver,
Front speakers are JBL ND310ii (2 x 10 inch drivers, 4 inch Mid and a 1 inch titanium tweeter)
Front surround and rear surrounds JBL TLX140 (single 10 inch woofer, 4 inch midrange and 1 inch titanium)
2 by JBL 10 inch subwoofers
You may notice no centre speaker and 2 speaker channel not utilised as yet.
My question is,
I am thinking of using a DML panel speaker for a centre speaker now, and possibly 2 DML panel speakers to complete the 9.2 system in the near future.
The plan is to use 4 x 40 watt Dayton Audio exciters and a JBL tweeter for the centre and possibly the same configuration for the front high speakers in the future.
Could you possible advise whether the DML system is practical or even good for the centre and front high speakers.
MY audio room is dedicated to music and is 4 x 6 meters with all the walls totally covered in 2 inch foam and that is also covered by a carpet.
The only furniture in the room is a cabinet 2 meters long and 600 high for the audio components and a single arm chair centrally located for maximum surround sound. Very much Man Cave stuff.
I am an Aged Pensioner and Australian expat living in Indonesia where the adivce is impossible to get.
For that reason, any advice would be very much appreciated.
Regards
Tony Chilcott
I'm totally unfamiliar with amps and the electrical side of this, so can you show your equipment and explain how to get my HDMI laptop output to reach the exciters and have different channels, etc?
Not using HDMI myself but you could pick up an AV receiver with a HDMI input and run a pair of DML panels as the main speakers (and even a full surround system).
Do you have the panes size for the acrylic ?
And is there any info or link for the plastic bracket ?
These are 910mm x 310mm x 3mm. Which bracket do you mean?
@@TypicalBenYT The bracket that holds the acrylic to the wooden frame. Where did you get it ? Links ???
I 3D printed the brackets. Am planning to do a video about the printed parts I've used but for now you can download the .STL files here: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/o8phf16whgqrar0b6ld9e/Panel-Mount.zip?rlkey=kpu7bfxj8ms1q5otecgbe3m7i&dl=0
Nice work … have you tried carbon fibre panels ?…. Tectonic audio labs used it and reports it as superior
Thanks! I haven’t but I do have a pair of small carbon panels here to try out. Will definitely publish my results here when I do.
Anyone tried the mid bass exciter EX32VBDS-4?
Whats the dimensions of the panels? I think i missed that.
No problem they are 910mm x 310mm x 3mm.
@@TypicalBenYT thanks for the reply. I plan to build six for my theater room. Your build was just the look I was going for.
@@kevinbrown1399 Oh yeah great. I’ve only done 2ch builds but I bet they’d sound great as surrounds too. Regarding the acrylic, it’s not the most efficient panel material but is well damped and looks good. I’ve found 3mm to be a sweet spot between volume and quality (4.5mm not loud enough and 2mm not rigid enough in my experiments).
@TypicalBenYT I'm gonna start off with one acrylic and one foam, just to see which is better for the space. But. I would like to mount them to the wall, and what you did would look good and mount perfectly.
There is a hiss or static in the background.
why so much noise?
For being an audio guy, your video mic levels are way off.
No one said I was a competent video editor! Which part do you mean?
@@TypicalBenYT There is only one five second part of the video where I do not have to turn my volume up to 85% of max.
When the commercials come on I have to turn the volume back to normal, then back up after the commercial.
You are not going to be able to tell your levels are off from your editor unless you have a very good db level monitor.
You are probably too far from the mic. If you do more videos, invest in a boom and mic you can place over and in front of your head, just out of frame. Will make a world of difference.
@@newunderthesun7353 if thats the biggest thing ? i would say it has some hiss. the intro sounded fine to me.. since i dont have adds i guess haha
@TypicalBenYT I was speaking in the collective about the commercials - I have multiple videos playing concurrently - we use YT at work. Good luck.
@@newunderthesun7353 hmm ok thanks for the feedback. I’m using a lapel mic but I’ll try to boost it more in future. Nothing more annoying than ads blowing your head off!