I didn't mind not being able to access Nax before TBC came out. It gave me something to look forward to. It meant that when I saw someone in Ironforge walking around in Naxx armor, it was a genuine "daaaaamn" feeling. I miss that.
+Serevarno same, when legendaries were a "daaamn" thing as well. i remember seeing someone with 2 warglaives of azzinoth and was like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.
+Serevarno Agreed. Thats also why I kinda laugh at the prima donnas that call themselves PvE players these days. Lol you think this game is hard now in retail? XD
Yes yes uhh so tough cus you played Vanilla people.. Let's be honest vanilla sucked dunkey balls when it was literally centered around blizzard being too lazy to actually find meaningful ways to gear up to a raid, instead forcing you to farm.
I think the tube set my comment for the wrong one.. But now that we are enemies get a superman pic to go with your Vegan attitude, something to think about whilst you are doing crossfit, miss or ahem kiddo. (Never braised the game as is, but the people who keep saying vanilla this and vanilla that.. may cancer take them).
I literally cannot tell if you've heard of sarcasm before, but i bid the fortune in wars to come, for surely you will start some with your bad attitude ;)
I'd like to add to this that voice comms, player cooperation and coordination and a general understanding of raiding mechanics were also relatively new. I can only imagine the trouble those early pioneers had getting to grips with high level raiding, much less manage 39 other players on ancient hardware, shaky internet connections and about a million other factors that could hinder playing properly.
Righf, like now everyone has discord or other very accessible communication means. Back then, discord was NEW-NEW. So in my guild, we all pitched in to a phone press conference service and different parts of the raid called in to different numbers. It was so ooo ANCIENT compared to now
It also needs to be taken into account the level of hardware and bandwidth we were dealing with back then. I was healing MC/BWL/AQ/Naxx at 720x480. Which means most of my screen was player HP bars.
sometimes i still cry that i didnt got currupted ashbringer, i saw it dropp.....but the "main" dps warrior got it....he stopped playing 2 months later......
in bwl rogue class call, ''you are hitting me from behind come face me'' from his faceside they were taking dmg, we were pulling rogues to max range even with low dps they were not dying , it was throwing knife or something like that i am editing this one : not bwl last fight, it was in majordomo's phase or something like that which everyone was using range attacks only
Getting exalted with the Argent Dawn was the EASY part Once you actually entered Naxxramas it was like: -"Oh god, what have I gotten myself into?" I believe I still owe Money for all the repair bills during that time....
I think you missed something. The World bosses dropped some gear people could use for Naxx. and the whole server was fightning each other to get those bosses down.
Kim those were the best days of wow... wow sucks so bad now.. it’s a game you pay to have your hand held... pussified!! We need vanilla wow, hardcore original vanilla wow immediately switched from current patch to give these little liberal cunts a taste of gaming reality... next stop actual reality!
@@papaversomniferum5247 Vanilla wow was not difficult. The most difficult part about vanilla wow was finding 40 skill players on your server. The mechanics while unforgiving they are simple. Now take players from current mythic raiding game they will destroy this content because people now programmed for difficult mechanics. Yes I cleared Naxx40 in vanilla in the world top 10
@@sundronez and therefore you don't have the perspective to know how bad people really are. Guess you've always played with close knitted group of friends never having to deal with casuals or clueless people. I'm not saying it was impossible but finding 40 skilled, and devoted players who are willing to farm rep, farm consumables every day like crazy and have the time for whole shizznit and constant wipes while learning the content was not easy. It was a constant grind, and I came to WoW from Lineage 2 where Grind was at least 10x times worse. (~3 months farming every day non stop to get at the time mats to craft best weapon for one of my chars). Also, Naxx wasn't in the game that long, so once Server first was obtained, most of people slowed down, yeah ppl wanted gear, but as I said, Naxx wasn't in the game for that long before BC, many were bored and waiting for expansion. And you cannot call it easy when KT would insta gib fully geared Tank if a single frostbolt wasn't interrupted, hell even when it just came out, getting Patchwerk was kinda a feat even with best pre Naxx gear (and I think timer was longer?). Once people got some Naxx gear it was easier, but it was just too much hassle. I mean it was both fun, and everyone hated it, espec. the respawns.... I quit WoW long time ago, (kinda tempted to come back), but nothing I saw in current welfare game that WoW turned into doesn't look close to real Grind and difficulty of Old Naxx (And it's not 40 ppl if they are not all Naxx geared, you'd have to swap in people for some fights so it was more like 40 plus another 15-ish people on standby. It was like a full time job. And no I didn't clear whole Naxx tho' my guild did - I think I was in a race for High Warlord rank at the time, and there was this Spanish dude who was in all Spanish guild with some 800+ ppl that all played his account and I swore an oath to get it before him xD. (My wife, then fiancee almost left me because of constant grind :P)
@@zchesus Many of the difficulties were constructs of the time. The gamer community and the MMO community is no where as extensive or as skilled as it is now, so finding 40 people who were skilled enough in an era of minimal server mobility was extremely difficult. When most people made their characters they did so with no real thought put into which server you played on beyond my friend plays here. Where as now for Classic people already have full on recruitment going on for 40 man guilds, etc. Next was internet connections and lag were a thing of the time, now we live in a world where 50-75ms is considered OK, in Vanilla many people ran at 200-300MS and that was good. As for dealing with casual/clueless people yes it happened from time to time but I have consistently been world top 1000 guild and been world first, so I understand how to play, what is required to play at that high level. The guild I raided with (Deus Vox) had a very short bench of 6-10 and we had some alts that were geared. As for farming rep and consumables.....That became a joke once AQ40 hit because you could sell runs for gold even back then for BWL and then after into AQ40(we sold access to other guilds who could not get passed twin's to get their gear from tokens). This gold was turned into consumables for the raid. As for easy, it was and will be in classic for the current MMO player. This is what I was saying take current WoW mythic raiders and put them in Naxx and they will have it cleared in a couple weeks at most. Longest possible part will get getting FrR for the Sapph and warrior tanks geared for 4h. This is due to the mechanics while being punishing are very rudimentary compared to what people in Mythic deal with now. In Vanilla you had one maybe 2 mechanics per fight, very little personal responsibility(beyond Thaddius and that was do you know what your left and right are) compared to now, multiphase, multiple mechanic, high personal responsibility fights, and yes with 40 players it is easier to kick a cast consistently than with 20. But the biggest difference now will be the amount of outside the raid preparation that will take place, Simming your character, figuring out optimal rotations, perfecting strats and raid comps, videos of the fights, etc. All of these were in their infancy in Vanilla and in with Classic release they will be at the level of current game. As for HW/GM in PVP I will admit that was a grind but and took lots of time but it was anything but difficult. There was no MMR matching system so as a geared player you went up against terrible players regularly.....I know this because as a guild we went into WSG only wearing weapons and trinkets and beat the other team still 3-1, we had no other armor on.
@@sundronez I figured we were talking was it hard for the average player back then not for inc vanilla servers. Only a part of the population will seriously play them imho and they will burn through content so quickly and won't have anything to do and they will get bored just as we got bored back then. Tho I must admit I am nostalgic and would love to go through the experience for a first time again (which would require me a) getting amnesia and b) actually having that much free time from family life) Reading your post, I do remember selling spots for AQ and lesser raids, also remember guild bank being huuuuge AF. But we were kinda the only guild Horde side on our server who was that way.... As you said, constructs of the time. I'll have to take your word for the current Mythic raids, I quit before the end of WOTLK so I am really out of the loop. (But I've been experiencing a WoW itch lately :P) Rank 14 was just a grind, only skilled part was pulling 1 vs 5-6 ppl kills. Yes, you usually outgeared them or at least some of them, but it could be challenging, espec. as warrior vs frost mages, shadow priests etc. (I PvPed as fury in BG's, Arms in Arena), there was an MMR for arena tho, but it was still bad.
Yes, only 23 guilds cleared Naxxramas. But don't forget that this patch was VERY short. Most guilds simply didn't have the time to beat it. If WotLK's last patch (ICC) was given the same amount of time to beat it, less guilds would have killed Lich King 25 HC. (0 guild to be exact, it took Paragon ~4 months to beat 25 hc ICC WITH 5% BUFF) While Naxxramas was the hardest raid dungeon ever. Lich King 25 heroic was definitely the hardest boss ever. (without the 5-10-15% buff.)
Lich King was unkillable at first. One guild managed to do it but got the kill revoked due to abusing a bug to keep the platform extention up to stop people being dropped off the edge.
That "bug" wasnt even abused really....First, it was normal LK(no fucks given), Second...The rogue used those same bombs, on CD, every time, since the start of WotLK...How would they even know what was causing it...
@biglolol fucking wrong you moron. Naxx 40 was cleared by 130 guilds pre TBC release of which 97 did it pre 2.01 patch. Most of these guild were EU guilds even though US head a decent head start ^^ US players just suck
What people failed to remember is the sheer amount of consumables needed: Now you can only use one battle and one guardian elixer, but then you could, or rather needed to use all of them As a Naxx hunter back then this was my list of "mandatory" items: 2 Flasks of Titans (Some fights required everyone to have more hp) 2 flasks of Supreme power (Some fights required to have the maximum dps) 10 of the appropiate greater resistance potions (3 different types) 10 Greater arcane Elixers 10 Purification Potions 10 Elixers of Mongoose 10 Elixers of brute force 10 Elixers of Fortitude 10 Elixers of Mageblood 10 Elixers of Greater Intellect 10 Scrolls of Agility IV 10 Scrolls of Stamina IV 10 Scrolls of Intellect IV 20 Major mana potions 20 Brilliant wizard oil (16 was the minimum for our seceduled 4 hour raid, but sometimes it lasted longer) This was takeing up 32 of our bag space (usually 2 full bags) next to the fact that we had to have a quiver full of arrows (AV/Engineering, or Doomshot (LBRS Farm) and the last 2 bags were usually filled with specific resist gear. i believe i had one spot free just incase i was able to buy (Dkp) something that raid but that was it. As a guild itself you also needed to get Repair bots, wich were quite expensive, and required materials only dropped in beloved Gnomeregan to farm. And this was with Full T2.5 set, Full Aq 20 set, 2 pieces of ZG set, 3 pieces of Tier 2 set, and the rest of the items mainly from BWL Also we had to use arcane shot vs aimed shot for multiple reasons, with the raid debuffs (nightfall, Curse of shadows) arcane damage was increased by 25%, while lowering the resistance by 75, the spell damage bonuses on the T2.5 set + consumables brought you to 349 spell damage makeing the arcane shot do 500 non crit arcane damage without haveing to stay motionless for 3 seconds (wich in some times was horrible) and without loseing time on autoshoots. It was also way more mana efficient. Also the armor of the mobs and bosses was so high that the sheer armor reduction on aimed shot made arcane shot way more viable. another thing that is failed to mention is that a lot of buffs only applied to groups, (eg aura's or totems, imp buffs, shouts, trueshot aura's) wich ment you had to switch groups regarding wich boss you did, also the bosses only had 16 debuff slots, wich ment every single slot of the boss was reserved for a specific debuff, wich lowered the dps of individuals to favor the increase of dps for the raid. Gathering the materials, or money to buy them was work in itself Now next to that were the fights itself. Decursing, only able to be done by Mages and druids, Poison, Shamans, Paladins, Druids, Disease Shamans, Paladins, Priests, Magic, Paladins and Priests. you had to call out in (mostly seperate class channels) who was decursing or dispelling wich group(s) those players had to make certain they were in range of the dispeller(s) (no range addons or UI were there for the most part) who did certain buffs (eg curse of shadows/elements) who was in the rotation for tranq shot, etc. For an evening of raiding, you spend 4-5 days preparing, and for the raid itself if you were unlucky enough to be the raid or classleader you often had to spend another hour or so getting the class stuff done. People had to have certain specs, and sometimes one talentpoint different could mean a huge difference. A lot of people comment that the fights themselves are "easier" scripted then current mechanics, but you also have to remember, that back then a lot of the now granted options for scripting weren't available, no vehicule mechanics, clickable orbs to mindcontrol, and a lot of the addons were often not working correctly so you had to sometimes rely on emotes, or spell effects for the timeings. A lot of classes didn't have aggro reduction or resets, and often even turning the boss to the raid accidentilly caused a wipe. Even with carefull planning, you had to rotate healers, device strategies for how to deal with certain bosses cause there weren't instruction video's or websites most of the time. Hots didn't stack, there was only 1 renew, 1 regrowth, 1 rejuvination possible on a target. And you know what, i miss it. I miss the dedication required, i miss the tight knit community in the guild, and on the server. People knew you in the guild and in the server. You build up lasting friendships, and enemies from the other side after the 15th time you met someone in a battleground. People were less likely to be an ass because not only did everyone experiance the horrible gear grind. The tight knit population on a server also ment that if you were a ninja, if you harrased people etc, you would be barred from any good guild. And with no name changes, or guild transfers possible, once you had a (good or bad) reputation that used to stick. I can't wait till classic wow returns. I just hope that Blizzard doesn't make it "current meta" with beeing able to transfer servers, name changes, cross realm battlegrounds, dungeon finders, summoning stones, gearscore For me i want it to have it the closest thing as it was back then, with maybe an OPTION to choose between wow classic graphics, or the new graphics
So you want it all back, but with a current PC. i only managed to get to lvl40 and staleld there in vanilla took me BC to get max lvl and enjoy some random raids 1 or 2 tiers behind the new content, still loved that time
I miss the old days when raids required more than "tank and spank" followed by "tank and off-tank and spank" followed by "stand in circle or die and tank and spank". Tanks used to have to control which direction the boss faced, shot/spell rotation were far more crucial for success as opposed to bragging rights on dps charts, and people actually had to know HOW to run cc to keep the guild from wiping. PUGS were a joke because they never used to work and world raids were a hell of alot of fun. I do miss dragging Lord Krull to IF with my guild on random servers waiting for my main to finish a server update >:)
Oh, and I miss the days of pvp being a time consumer while waiting on your 40-man as opposed to being necessary for noobs to be able to get gear for high level raids because they can't learn how to run a raid with their class. I think that's a biggest part of the reason I quit wow
Exactly. The 'skill' in vanilla was all down to your time investment. Hell, even PvP was like this.. you were considered the absolute best pvper in the game as long as you afk'd in AV 20 hours a day and made it to rank 14, as arena wasn't in the game yet. The entirety of the vanilla experience was the insanely time consuming MMO-ness of the game, you had to grind forever to do anything. I don't see classic WoW being very successful because the current state of gaming doesn't really lend itself to these types of games anymore.. maybe the players that are currently playing insanely grindy asian MMO's will be able to handle the grind, but thats about it. The VAST majority of people that play classic will burn out before they even reach level 60 which is understandable. I just can't see Classic being the savior to WoW's existence that everyone thinks it will be.
I completely agree with you right here. I was a classic WoW baby and a Mage for my main class, altoholic so I had 1 of each to the max character slots. Using CC and fight Mechanics, not just "stand in this circle while the tank holds aggro in his sleep cause he hit 1 button at the start", was one of the main things I miss about Classic WoW. I even find in other MMOs that it has been a plague that has just killed those things in many of the good ones. For example I play FFXIV and love the game, however CC is really non-existent. In FFXIV your Dungeons and Raids consist mostly of Tank and Spank AOE Frenzy fights. Some boss battles are mechanic heavy but you are then only fighting just the boss and mechanics are more things to keep from dying. A few of the classes have some good CC abilities in FFXIV, like the Black Mage's Sleep spell which is an AOE CC, yet it's so ignored that many players seem to be more pissed off that they can't just spam their amazingly awesome AOE skill without waking the mob up, which after about 3 hits with it the diminishing returns makes it immune completely until you get out of combat and it fully resets. I can remember being in several guilds in Vanilla WoW due to drama and the need for certain things before I could be allowed to raid in some. I had a run of bad luck in the time that I should have been running BWL due to the fact that I kept finding bad guilds that wanted me to farm things for them to go to raids with and kept insisting they'd bring me in when someone else was fully geared and wanted time off. Of course many of those guilds were really just wanting to use me to farm items for them and had no intention of letting me raid, and those that did were doing it on alts and didn't have any care as it was more a time to pull "Leroy"s and crack jokes while telling the "noobs" how good they did this raid a night or two before hand like it was easy as pie. Thankfully I got into some good guilds before BC launched and I did get to get to some Vanilla Raiding. BC was a great expansion as it didn't make too many changes and the flow was fine unless you did massive grinding to level and burn through the areas without the questlines being done.
+EnjoyCocaColaLight Holy hell lvl 12? I only levelled in later TBC and i recall even that took some considerable time to hit 70. *Oh and the class was hunter... ^_^
i got 5 bosses in Naxx back in classic, but since we all knew TBC where just a few months away, we decided to call it quits and some in our guild including our main tank did Runs with the best guild on out server in order to clear Naxx before TBC, which i think they did.
Remember it wasn't just difficulty alone. Burning Crusade was just around the corner so the gear would have just been invalidated in a month. So many guilds just gave up an went on vacation.
I think it would have been a lot better if blizzard released bigger expansion with more time in between them. Even after they removed attainments and such only top guilds cleared end tier raids. There just want enough time for even semi hardcore raiders. I liked raid finder but then they ruined all the classes in mop so I quit.
@@jointedlimb I get that this is 4 years ago, but people at the time didn't really know that T3 was going to take you into Kara. The only gear that had been leaked was Hellfire Peninsula and Citadel gear, like lvl 61-63 gear, and it was on-par if not better than MC gear. People knew they were going to get better gear just from hitting 70. Level cap increases hadn't become standard yet, since it was the first one we saw so no one knew what to expect. The idea of it caused a lot of burnout, a ton of people quit, a ton of guilds collapsed. The only guilds who really pushed Naxx were top tier guilds. There was also the frustration a lot of guilds dealt with over the transition from 40 to 25 man raids. Everyone knew their guild was about to hit an awkward moment of people getting pushed out. Then there was the Paladin/Shaman conversation, who was going to reroll, and how were you going to make room for them? The transition into TBC caused a massive amount of guild drama.
I remember My guild going into nazx back Then. We didnt even kill the 1 trash mob wich was a gagoyle. If this wanst killed fast enough it would get full Health. So we kept nuking the same Mob for like 30 mins untill we gave up and left. Brutal raid.
I know this is a little different, but my guild couldn't kill the trash in Sunwell Plateau, and this was after beating Black Temple (albeit also after the 30% raid health nerf). It was an interesting two months before Wrath.
A lot of people did a lot of irrelevant-to-Naxx things, which is why not many were able to get there. Yes, it wasn't much of a grind, but on a raider's timetable, it was an immense diversion. That raid was only out for 7 months before BC and mastery of AQ was required before entry.
God Nuvo It was fun running it with part MC gear pre-BWL, but it didn't really make sense until they released the raid 0,5. But it was pretty funny cus I had full Valor on my Paladin as farming gear, but the tier 0,5 quest was class oriented. Shame
Bloodstainer that's bullshit. Argent dawn rep was probably the hardest faction, I farmed shitton of strat and scholo for my tier0 and played the whole vanilla since the release. when BC came out I wasnt exalted.
I have to say some of the things you are saying are misleading, I was in one of the raiding guilds in EU that cleared the place. first of: Naxx came out late, and we had minimal time in there before TBC, so time people had in the raid to progress was very limited. (remember I do agree this was one of the hardest places I have every progressed). 2nd, gear: when naxx came out people had been farming MC/BWL for over a year, and even tho AQ40 was "relatively" new most people did not need a huge amount of gear, and most guild cleared MC/BWL very quickly at that time. 3rd consumables: I agree with you the amount of consumables needed was high, very high indeed, but a good guild would do a divide and conquer, having the dps farm the kills, and then our healers had herb alts at level 35 with 300 herbing placed where we needed to farm the most important herbs (groomsblood) the tanks would be fishing etc. that took allot of the top off. 4th Rep: everyone had been running AD rep instances for ages, there were a constant need to get to the lab to make flasks, or farm righteous orbs for crusader enchant, and Large brilliant shards etc etc. meaning most raiders at the level to enter naxx where at least revered and many of us was already exalted, making the entry requirement completely easy. just some thoughts, please remember that I agree Naxx was a hard but amazing place. And it took a well organized guild to be naxx "worthy". but liked the video :)
Geesle many guilds had a centralized system to gather and craft all consumables for the raid. Everybody could contribute and in return got points to later bid on raid drops. That way everybody could gather what was easier for him/her or nothing at all.
I only went to Naxx one time during Vanilla then our guild ran out of time. After that our guild pretty much died in TBC because there were no longer 40 man raids
I completely agree!! We were also dividing the jobs and I agree on reputation part.. The reason we didn't do naxx was "Hey expansion will come soon, look at those green items , they are better than our tier 2,5s.. Let's stop raiding until expansion and let's make a fresh start at the expansion.." Thus ended our wow adventure.. people got bored and left the guild etc... Things got worse and worse.. Burning crusade should have come a year and a half later or something like that..
I mean you can't deny Nax was hard since he has the stats to back him up, but he did exaggerate some things that you've already covered. One thing he exaggerates is farming as Main Healer. Yeah, the gear was shit for DPS as a healer since they would only focus on healing. However, a lot of healers (at least smart ones apparently) would have a DPS off-set for when they needed to solo some things some times. Being a guild trying to conquer Nax at the time; I would be very surprised if he wasn't in a guild that had cleared MC, BWL, AQ, and Onyxia (as well as the world bosses) so many times that it was sill not common for the same gear to drop for the nth time that all the mains already had or something better; therefore allowing the non-mains access to get them for their off-sets. For example, all the main mages and warlocks already have that gear piece or something better for spell damage so let a priest get it so he can do damage when he needed to. Hell, you could also even use the spell damage gear you got from basic quests, mob drops, and dungeons at the time to use. The dungeon set gears were implied to be class-specific, but in reality anyone can use the gear (fucking Shadow Priests taking my Dreadmist gear). You didn't have to respec to do damage for farm, that's like a super expensive cherry on top. It helps, but not needed and the money could be used better to gather resources for or the consumables themselves on the AH.
Our guild during vanilla was 1 of 2 alliance guilds that always led progression on our server. Naxx 40 changed our guild. It forced us to start looking for talent from other servers to get them to move to ours. We started questioning the skills of established old school members. It tore us apart really. I would come home from work and immediately start farming mats in preparation for the Naxx run that night. We'd go hard till 11 or 12 late at night. Rinse and repeat all week. Our progression was good and not that far behind some of the world leaders at one point. For our guild this pace was unsustainable. We made it up to and beat Sapphiron as a guild. Things fell apart afterwards. A core group from the guild joined with a core group from another guild and we eventually killed Kel'Thuzad. I think we did it a few weeks before TBC came out. I was glad some of us got to beat it after what we went through. Although I continued to play WoW until Warlords of Draenor, I never seriously raided after that. It was such a toxic experience I could never do it again. I've done some but it was usually with friends in 25 man dungeons that weren't brand new. It was fun runs with content that was known. Friends and I did PVP mostly after and had great fun. I still have my full T3 Redemption set that I use for xmog. RIP Reign
it only took us 15 years to figure out you could just cheese all fights using world buffs and banning most classes from raid XDXD naxx is still in classic ridiculous hard with a group that doesn't know each mechanic and have protection pots+ resist gear for sapphron. not to mention damn good tanks. i couldn't imagine doing any of it 15 years ago. You were my teenage nerd dream XDXD then i got to do naxx in classic fully world buffed in a run where they checked out previous raid performances and vetted every player and it look 1h :|:|:|:| (just short) if it wasnt for players like you thought it wouldnt be possible now!
Not saying we should go back to that exactly, but there really should be some extremely hard content that you have to work towards. You can say, "well there are mythics" but that is essentially the same raid you have done 2 or 3 times over already. It is nothing new or exciting. As an old dev once said, "the world feels a whole lot bigger when there is content out there that is a bit out of reach." It gives you something to look forward to and gives you a drive to do better. No more of this 4 tiers of difficulty with gear that their only differences are is how high their stats are...there is no uniqueness left in the game.
That's so completely true.. i remember starting out as a noob in my ZG/AQ20/MC guild and even seeing a piece of naxx gear in a battleground was incredibly exciting.. the idea of doing the instance was just.. nearly mythical.. it was something you thought of as a year or so away even if your guild was amazing and starting out raiding.. i think that's the main reason people get so bored now.. if there's nothing you haven't seen after a week of an expansion being out, how couldn't you be bored?
+The Universe Yeah, that would be Awesome as hell. Going back to Ulduar or ICC and face Arthas once more. Actually, i never even saw Arthas in 3.3, my Guild never made it past Sindragosa :P
I see alot of comments stating that Vanilla WoW was glitchy and full of elitists.. Im sorry but I played from 2004-2015 and can tell you I would rather have those glitches and elitists than the whiny self entitled half wits that are sitting in their Garrisons today. Sure Vanilla had a tighter community, the mechanics, though not up to today's standards were hard for their time. We didn't have a crap ton of monty python stats that gave us godly amounts of life and damage. The battles actually required thinking about your next move. Damage meters meant crap. Threat meters on the other hand were mandatory. Wipes were something that happened more often than not. Say what you want Old Naxx was a real pain in the backside for the players of the time. No dungeon or raid today offers the same level of trouble because the characters themselves are more capable. The sheer number of players that demand to see the damage meter after a fight is appalling and yet that is considered normal now in WoW. Such a lame joke. We talk about the Elitists of yesteryear and yet arent the ones in WoD even worse? People need to get their heads on straight. Sure Vanilla was a right bitch, but it was a social game back then which is very different that the current stance of WoW today. Player skill in vanilla is under estimated. We had less to work with and so its assumed we didnt have to figure out our classes... I will challenge that with We had less to work with so actually getting anything done was more of a challenge. We had class leads in our guilds that organized whoever was under them and we would help those coming into the raids to make sure they could be of help to the run. We didnt troll each other and criticize each other over item level. It was about the needs of the raid. Resistances being something that was a requirement for every raid, not just Naxx. Molten Core needed Fire resist, hell the tank needed over 400 FR. .... then came Naxx with its frost resist which threw all of us on our butts. the polar opposite of all the gear we had been farming for months... it was a nightmare. Few people remember but there was no resist gear for Holy damage... That was fun also when it came to those types of adds. How about the quests for the classes? oh yeah those aree missing now.. The hunters would get a leaf.. then would have to do some insane crap which included fighting an elite open world demon that would insta kill anyone who assisted. just so they could get the Bow that could transform into a staff... challenging and fun when I did it... yet there is nothing like that in todays WoW. Today WoW is an MMORPG whos core audience is 12 years old. Pokemon pet fights, Lame humor, and political correctness... Where once the humans were racist, they are now buddy buddy with everyone... its a shadow of it former glory and hence why its lost more than 80% of its player base over the years.
So you want to say... You are a whiny, self-entitled bitch? I mean that pow, that comment.. I hope vanilla players stop bitching how it was hard back then, but can't do today's content.
The best part of vanilla was not that naxx was so hard though, it was that there were so many great things to do outside of raiding. I started pretty early on (pre battlegrounds) and i didnt hit 60 until the end of the expansion, just because leveling and meeting people out in the world was so fun.
I played a warlock back then, I was playing it because of how cool demon summoning seemed, and that undead warlock in the intro video with the infernal was boss. Turned out that warlocks could pretend to farm mana pots, lifetap themselves near to oblivion, and make the healers waste more mana pots instead. Dick move but good times.
+Eternal Odyssey i was a lock in those days lifetap was the bomb, but we couldnt use it in every fight, as it strained the healers and they needed to focus on the tanks. caugh patchwerk. you know what i do NOT miss about locks then, effing shards man. for bosses in Naxx i required all my warlocks to grind up tons of them.
A point about debuffs: Back then there was an add-on called decursive, which auto targeted and cast whatever debuff removing spell your class had with a single button press. A friend of mine was a holy paladin, and had a parrot that loved picking on his mouse wheel. He would bind the decursive macro to both mouse wheel directions, /follow his class leader, and let his parrot raid molten core. Point is, one of the reasons the naxx debuffs are so excessive is that it was assumed that they would be removed more or less instantly by healers spamming their decursive macro.
With the type of game it used to be, I would imagine playing it had to be much more about the friendships and the time spent raiding, more than the loot. With the huge influx of shallow players paying millions and millions of dollars, demanding more and more loot more LOOOOT we want more STUFF, is basically what created the shallow shell of a game wow used to be. What seemed to destroy guilds, was that there was no reward for your efforts in NAXX, in the months you spend playing it, you didn't even get the boss kill, which for guilds of people who were friends who cared about each other, was a good reward to be honest, I'd be happy to see 3 of my guildies get loot, if I only got to help kill the boss and never saw loot, and that's what naxx seemed to take away from people, the tiny bit of reward you get by getting kills, even when you get no loot. That sense of shared accomplishment among you and your guild, loot be damned...those deep connections players used to have with each other, is where those rose colored glasses come from. Killing bosses was much more meaningful than winning loot back then.
This exactly. Loot was cool. before transmog, you could sit in the now ghost town of stormwind wearing gear you got from bwl or mc....and people would talk to you about it, ask how the fights were...and everyone marveled at the naxx gear even though most people wanted nothing to do with it after a few weeks trying. As crappy as that raid was, the sense of accomplishment of downing 1 boss was epic. Now, I can take a greenie and do lfr to down the boss. I like that they dumbed things down a bit, it was way too hard overall....but think they went a little too far. Funniest part...while taking a new guild during WotLK through naxx...seeing, as he said that damage didn't change....couldn't stop laughing at people getting their butts kicked and then complaining about how hard it was.
Moreso yes. Vanilla was fun and engaging. The game forces you to work with others and build a community, the whole reason of it being an MMO. The current game does away with that. I came back a couple months ago, solo played and cleared Heroic Tomb of Sargeras and quit again. I'm just not a fan of current WoW and I'm wholly looking forward to classic servers.
Well it has to have both. Some loot and some feeling of acomplishing something. From what I saw in this video it was simply not worth the effort, time and nerves. It was bullshit. Actualy and I'm very surprised people kept playing this game... well maybe I just don't care so much about games. I think games like WoW should have "normal" diffilculty which means an average person after some training can finish it (kill final boss) and for those who want bigger challenge there should be some hard mode, but with rewards in a form of titles, achievements, maybe some cool skins, but not better items, because then it wouldn't be just for those who want bigger challenge it would be required for everyone.
@Mike Wa - This was pretty much the heart of MMOs back when WoW first came out, and how prior MMOs such as EverQuest worked. The gameplay is there, but the social aspect was incredibly important and required if you expected to progress anywhere in the raiding scene.
Wanna hear a funny thing, I am currently getting ready with my guild to do Nax 40 on a private server, we never got to do it in retail, and while we know about the grind, we are all looking forward to it. We are fools.
Crutonz well seach "wow vanilla privat" in google... I use one of the first 3 seach hits. Pretty much just seach for vanilla privat servers that are blizzlike (exp 1 goldrate 1)
Koen Wijnen What makes you think I am bullshitting you? No I will not give you my name, and you can search for a server yourself. I told him pretty much which one I use, all he has to do is look for it.
The chances of this are so low but you your guild, Legio Excisio. What realm were they on? I recognize some of the names in your guild because my brother was in a guild with the same name, it was either on the Dragonmaw or Frostmane server, can't remember which. I think the guild came about from a merger of two guilds called Motion and Set in Stone?
+Knotty200 Im not sure about the history of Legio Excisio when it comes to the guild merge, but we originally started on Dragonmaw and moved to Frostmane due to it being a lot less laggy
+HamsterWheelGaming This is definitely the guild my brother was in but he went into The Dark Legion, not sure if you remember them? Think they were classed as 2nd or 3rd best horde guild on the realm, Malevolence Incarnate being number one. He actually joined MI temporarily I think and even had a stint in ISLE. Do you remember a Tauren Hunter called Wylde?
I definitely remember Malevolence Incarnate, as well as Erratic and Vindication. I think those 3 and Legio were the top raiding guilds on Frostmane back in those days. As far as the hunter name it does sound familiar, but it doesn't really ring any bells unfortunately
+HamsterWheelGaming Nice video! On Frostmane was definitely one of the top guilds at the end of vanilla, and the best horde guild throughout TBC. The guild itself was a merger of two good guilds, Inspiration and Novus Principium. good times
@@havoc3135 It doesn't matter. If the guy is a mythic raider now even private server stuff would be a joke to him. Back than it was hard because of lack of experience and skills just like many things in life. Still my favourite raid ever. But you develop you learn and things that were difficult are so easy now, you realise that they were easy all along, it was you that need to learn and grow.
In 2006 wow was played by normal people with a life for fun. in 2022 its only played by speed runners who have memorised the games source code and break the game.
I think boss fights shifted from being hard to prepare for to hard to execute. Most Naxx bosses require almost no skill to execute, as long as you do the bare minimum and come extremely prepared. In modern wow you need the gear and skill to do M bosses.
@@SaoGage thats terrible marketing and will make way less money than if it caters towards a broader audiance. so sure its okay but business wise and logically its not
Having cleared Naxx 40 in classic, another thing not mentioned in the video is the amount of spell hit your tanks and priests needed. The tanks for taunt not to miss on 4 horsemen (generally a lot of guilds had a 9th tank standing by in case a taunt was missed, until the time where you had 8 warriors with t3 4 piece bonus) and the priests for Mind Control on razuvious and shackle on Gothik. Shadow priests weren't really a thing at the time so most priests didn't have any spell hit gear and almost no warrior up to that point had ever farmed spell hit gear because... well... spell hit gear on a physical damage class made no sense.
And for the preparation mages had to log in like 30 minutes prior to make food and water for everyone. Warlocks were farming soulgems for 1 hour before the raid (at least) and hunters had to buy ammo that was made by an engineer because different ammo had different damage values.
I raided back in vanilla. We started in ZG that had just came out when we started. Continued to Clear MC, Onyxia and BWL. When we started AQ 40 I was delighted to learn about KTM, the threat meter of the day. Yes in vanilla a meter that measured threat was a BIG help, so you wouldn't accidentally out aggro the tank and wipe the raid wich was a big risk, especially for horde without pally buffs. As a hunter with FD, it was less of a concern for me, but still nice. Being ranged DPS I was chosen to be one of 15 people needing to farm nature resistance gear for a fight further in. That ment farming Mauradon over and over again to get green lvl 44 cloth to replace my hunter T2 gear. Not so fun. Also needed to start farming AD rep in preparation for Naxx. Of course you still needed consumables and repair money for the boss you was currently on. At that time I figured I spent more time farming for raids in one way or another than I was actually raiding so I figured, screw this and quit. So if I was spending more time farming for raids than actually raiding before we was halfway in AQ40, I can just imagine what Naxx must have been like. I've always been wholeheartedly again goldbuyers, but for people doing AQ40 and vanilla Naxx, I get it. I never did it myself, but unless you wanted a full time job playing this game, there was no other option. The lack of time to far and refusal to buy gold was the reason I quit. My guild went on to clear AQ40 and kill 2-3 bosses in Naxx before TBC hit. I kinda regret a little not getting to see Naxx back then, but I had other priorities in life than just work, sleep and WoW. There was not time for anything else if you was raiding AQ 40 amd Naxx back then.
The key issue with Vanilla WoW wasn't it's relative difficulty. It was the fact that to progress through Vanilla WoW Raiding you had to dedicate nearly every waking hour to it. There was no conceivable way to do all that was required to play at the top level without surrendering your entire life to it. The main focus of nearly EVERYTHING in Vanilla WoW was to make everything be as time-consuming as possible.
i was in a raiding guild that cleared everything up to and including WOTLK . our raiding schedule was 5 nights a week from mon to fry ,. weekends off. we started at 19:00 and ended at 24:00 every week day.. that's all that's needed to progress and farm raids for gear for about 80 raiders. couple of hours a couple of days in the week. no need to no life if your guild knows what its doing.
That's where WoW originally got the stereotype for South Park episode where there's just a fat dude in his room doing nothing but playing the game and not doing anything else in life lol. Now its anything but that, everyone is spoonfed everything and given to them right away.
When Sunwell came out I didnt even understand the mechanics for the dragon/human fight, I believe that was the second boss in there but by that time I wasnt even hardcord raider just a spor filler if I was needed. :)
I was only able to kill up to 4HM (Last boss my guild downed was Loatheb) so I never got to see Sapphiron or Kel'Thuzad in Vanilla. But man, what great times vanilla were. Almost nothing in gaming will ever be as exciting as the raiding experience was in vanilla for me. TBC was great too, until they did the global 30% hp nerf across everything in the game making even Kil'Jaeden a fuckin joke... But WotLK was where I ended up quitting as it got dull after doing Naxx10/25, so skipped the raids in between it and ICC and did them when I came back when ICC came out and ended up clearing that, which was ok, but not nearly as fun as I had in either vanilla or TBC. And after a few months of playing Cataclysm I decided it was time to move on as that expac is where things got even more dumbed down, which had already happened in WotLK when it came to class mechanics and it just wasn't fun anymore and I was burned out on MMO's. So that's where my WoW journey ended for good, and I'm glad it did after seeing what they did to the game, making it more and more easy and anyone who could mash their skills in a certain pattern was good. All the micro management of even tanking/healing was gone as healers could practically spam aoe heals, and every tank class could aoe tank with the utmost of ease. I specifically remember Gothik the most, as I was a holy priest in vanilla, and I was one of the shacklers for that fight and man that shit practically gave me nightmares after the raids lol. Gothik was so chaotic as a priest that had shackle. On top of having to manage healing a tank that was taking an ass beating as everything in that fight hit extremely hard as well as shackling very specific mobs at very specific times and keeping the shackle refreshed between heals was insane as if it wasn't refreshed very, very often it could break and it would be a wipe 9/10 times. And us on shackle duty had to gimp our healing gear with DPS caster gear to get the 5%(I believe, it's been so long I forget, may have been like 2.5% or so, but that was ~10 years ago ._.) without enough +hit, the potential of missing a shackle could result in an instant wipe. And getting +hit gear as a priest was not easy as our DPS casters needed it before us so we could even progress up to that point. But still, like I said, one of the most memorable and exciting moments I ever had gaming. And while I'll never play a game as hardcore as I played vanilla WoW, let alone another MMO in general, if I had to go back in time, I'd do it all over again.
+shadowboxin420 Thank you for your memories. I could easily relate your story, even tho I myself was quite a casual player. I mean I played a lot (3-8h a day and I was in a highschool), but didn't really get "shit" done so to speak. Hah, now that I think about it, I spent most of the time traveling around zones, ganking and farming stuff. Quite many BGs here and there, but never really thought about ranks/reputation and the items I could acquire through them, even if I had the time for the endless grind. I raided only MC/ONY/BWL and first couple of bosses in AQ40, but never even thought about going to Naxx. I just played until I got the feeling that I've had enough, and stopped. That feeling came like every 3 to 6 months, so I took a few weeks break and always came back. TBC times went kinda the same ways as Vanilla. Casual raiding MH and TK, but never really thought about BT/SW. I enjoyed more World PvP. WOTLK and Cata were the expansions I never really raided anything. I dont even know what the hell I did on WOTLK. I remember doing quite a lot of arenas with my friend, but never really succeeding on it, even tho I considered us both pretty solid keyboard cowboys (meaning good skills). I started Cata because the only thing that bothered me in WoW was the lack of arena succes. So as a shadowpriest, I recruited a shaman and a mage to my 3v3 team (which I knew was quite a good setup) and yes, it worked! I finally got to experience some success on arena. It got a lot harder past 1800MMR, so we finally had to practice different strategies and were steadily getting past 2k rating and it was fun. But this fun ended a bit too soon. I was about 22yo, and ofc was thinking more and more about real life and why am I still putting so many hours to this game. I remember looking at all the addons and shit on my screen while doing arenas and noticed that it wasn't as intuitive as it was in Vanilla. It was actually quite boring. So the feeling of 'I've had enough' came a lot sooner than in Vanilla, and I decided to quit it for the last time. My playtime on Cata was only about 2 months. Now, getting close to 30yo, I would/could never put in as many hours on a videogame as a highschooler could. Yet, I'm still waiting for something as big and eventful as WoW, which will highly unlikely ever happen. And this may be the reason I'd also do it all over again, if I had to back in time (apart from WOTLK and Cata tho hah :).
What isn't mentioned, is that some bosses were tuned for having the raid on farm. We had to world buff to overcome the lack of gear. (Thaddius, Loatheb, Sapph, gothick and 4h regularly were world buffed for. What is world buffing you say? Break your 40 man into 8 5 mans, go through Dire Maul north. Get the buffs from the bosses. Then meet up in SW or Org, turn in head of onixya or Nefarian, head to Stranglethorn vale to get Heart of Hakkar buffs. Oh, and potions were on a 2 min timer and most players used some potion on CD. (Mana for healers, str/agi/int/crit, for dps) He touched on server issues, but how he left unstated how bad they were. I was on a server with 3 or 4 guilds trying to clear naxx. The ENTIRE server lagged when someone pulled Thaddius. So you had to work with other guilds, and announce over 3rd party apps when you were pulling Thaddius as a kindness. If a different guild was learning Thaddius, you were better off taking the night to clear AQ40 or farming for mats, because 3-5 min of stuttering, buggy mobs and input lag.
All the guilds were world buffing. Some guilds would try to kill world buffed players on the way to naxx to grief them. It happened to us and we returned the favor by kidnapping their tanks with mind control.
***** Go play on private servers like feenix or kronos, there you will get the full experience of the vanilla wow! simply amazing and almost bug free content! i can highly recommend it! i cleard everything but c'thun on the instant lvl 60 server - That server is pretty much dead now though..
jonas fisker I don't trust their scripts, I hear feenix is awful and they sell gear for donations. So I bet naxx is made easier or bugged somehow to make it un accurate. Like the four horsemen are missing a mechanic as if they took WOTLK and put it in vanilla
***** You should check out Nostalrius - It's FANTASTIC! I've been playing there for about a month now. It's a true 1x XP server, which is as close to live vanilla wow was. No buying gear, no XP boosts, just grind 1-60 and start gearing up. Community is awesome and everyone on realm is friendly as there is no LFR anonymity!
Ryan Colombo too buggy though. I think rebirth has more accuracy and they won't release things before they are ready. Nost seems to throw all kinds of crap out without even testing it
Blizzard admits they were learning end game raiding with vanilla and some bosses were literally impossible til nerfs were placed. Sunwell is a close 2nd
Nostalrius is a terrific private server with a higher population than ANY World of Warcraft server, ever. It reached 9k people online at one time, which no server including retail has ever been close to achieving. BWL is being released next month and everyone's having a great time.
+propoetide I agree with this, I'd resub if they'd add in about ~20 US *1.12.1* servers and ~20 US *2.4.3* servers. I'd love to get in a good guild and do Naxx and Sunwell again. I had a lot of fun in Vanilla and even more in BC. Actually had kind of a hankering for original ZG and AQ20 lately too...I had a loving fondness for ZG and AQ20 even though they were baby raids. Same for Kara...
yeah... people will play it for a week then go back to normal wow. blizz wont add a vanilla server that MIGHT have succes... plus the game was retarded back then. its a miracle that it survived past vanilla.
Somewhere around 4-6 million people would disagree with you. Plenty of private servers have proved that people will play Vanilla WoW and TBC even with horrible bugs just to play them and they will do it for long periods of time. People would most likely bounce between the servers with multiple characters on each, because let's face it, leveling characters isn't hard. With WoW having lost over half it's playerbase I sure as hell would be willing to bet it would pick a lot of revenue back up by embracing the old hardcore fans like myself.
+Raven1024 4 to 6 million? really? you are talking about 4 to 6 million players that are 10 years older, and dont have same patience like back then. also 4 to 6 million its a BIG exageration considering that only a few thousands actualy finnished end content. latest proof was molten core event, where ppl had a glimpse of what old raiding was about. people got their mount and never returned. trust me, nostalgia will run out in about a month, just like timewalking dungeons.
You left out probably the biggest reason as to why most people didn't clear naxx 40. Your points were valid. However missed the main reason, Time frame. Blizz released naxx 40 then announces the first ever wow expansion. You call your guild hardcore and I'm sure it was. However, most hardcore guilds who cleared BW, MC, AQ, etc were tired. You said it yourself. 40man runs take its tole. And with the release of naxx 40 and BC right around the corner most people took a break to get ready for BC since leveling greens from BC would be better than naxx40 gear. I think you missed the biggest reason of all. People just didn't wanna waste their time because when naxx40 was released Blizz basically made it outdated from day one. And that's why the completion percentage was so low....
"However, most hardcore guilds who cleared BW, MC, AQ, etc were tired. " ???? You mean players just stopped playing because suddenly a new expansion was coming out? No, we kept playing and trying to get new gear because Naxx was new and damn exciting. What are these stupid hot takes lol.
LFMAO, no. The Burning Crusade greens WERE NOT better than Naxxramas gear. How do I know? I have friends who were using their T3 gear from 60 until 70, one guy I know who had Atiesh, didn't replace that until Karazhan. The Naxxramas gear was EXTREMELY good until you were ready for Karazhan.
After Blizz shut down the biggest private vanilla server Nostalrius, they invited its leaders for a meeting in their headquarters. They sounded interested in setting something like that up. Look up the news story. IMHO it won't work, once we've grown accustomed to easy leveling, no effort raiding and auto-PUGs, would be hard for most players to go back to running till you get your first (slow) mount at 40.
I remember having a nightmare of our GM killing a cow in Everyln forest trying to get shit so we could play in Naxx. We had to level up everyone to get anywhere close to being Naxx ready in gear
The mob SWARM between Noth and Gluth... All your guild back to a wall and a pixel soup wanting to kill you. You couldn't even aim and had to use /assist macros and trust your tanks.
i played vanilla but didnt raid back then, now in Panda and then WoD i started raiding srsly and honestly i am sooooo glad that its not like vanilla back then, i really cant understand why some players want those times back....
Vanilla=bring down a really hard boss with using tons of consumables 4-5 times then you get a piece of gear. MoP,WoD=bring down an easy as hell boss 1-2 times then you get 2 piece of gear if you are lucky. When you get a piece of gear in vanilla it felt like epic, in MoP,WoD you are like: ok a piece of gear, cool. People generally like challenges in games because easy games seem to be boring. I guess you are an exeption.
Lonkor EU like i already said, i didnt raid back then. But i know how "difficult" the raiding was, no question, but there is a factor that many overlook: Time. Of course it takes way longer if you need to equip !!40!! people with new resistances every new raid back then, with like 5 items dropps with 1 Boss and dont let me mention the shaman/paladin items that could drop for the other faction. But like i said, lack of content, grinding and everything seemed pointless for me to farm the same mob over and over again (and it still does, i am looking at you, garrsion dailys).
Primož Sever what meaning? grinding your ass of to get items with higher numbers, sorry but looking back it was just extremly boring, now you have to invest a lot less time which is just way better in my eyes.
I first came into contact with World of Warcraft on 18 feb. 2006. People that remember those vanilla days, remember how absolutely difficult it was to get attuned to raids, raid, organize and go on months on end without a piece of gear. Do you remember when getting that first ever piece of epic-equipment, months after working on your character and you would stare at it for minutes and couldn't believe your eyes? Do you remember when the high levels (back then, 60 wasn't the easiest thing to do) used to ride their 100% mounts next to you while you tried keeping up, but still felt pride in your 60% mount that you worked so hard for? Do you remember how you glanced with respect on those FEW server legends that were full epic and you wanted it BAD to get there too? Do you remember when you used to play a late night WSG and see one of those "Marshal" / "Warlord" ranked players and thought of how bad-ass they were? But .....do you remember when the raid was foremost about experiencing the hardest depth of the world you were in and the gear was just the means to the end of seeing more of that content and not the idea of having it first hand? Last time I played World of Warcraft was 2011 and probably never will again. I won't claim that the game is bad, I won't whine that it's easy now or so forth, but people need to understand that we old schoolers grew up in those times, where your character was a badge of pride and a monument of hard work.. my two cents.
Just found this, got hit with a bit of nostalgia. I didn't do Naxx40, I actually hit lvl 60 like a month or 2 before TBC, so I didn't have the time. What I remember though, is 2 things : - Even in TBC, farming for consumable was a thing that still took quite a bit of time, and as a mage, I remember for longer fight having to time my potions and mana gems. I even remember for longer fights preparing every level of mana gems just to be able to last. And I feel like there was something about seeing the fight last, and seeing my gems slowly deplete and knowing that OoM was coming, but having to find ways to push on. It was a nice feeling (our first down of Lady Vashj is actually something I think I'll always remember). - The second thing is, by late TBC, before it was removed, people started to organize Naxx40 raids, just so people could see the dungeon. And even with all our gear, our 10 level higher, our new spells, the raid was brutal (granted it was pickups, and some people didn't care about the strat). We wiped quite a few times, and some people were shocked by it. I remember getting the T3 shoulders for my mage, and was very happy about it, because even if it was nowhere neaar as the same achievement as doing it lvl 60, it was still something.
Health level of Naxx25 equipped level 80 was hardly 35k man. 35k maybe for a tank with all the buffs. Average health for non-tank players was around 20k.
HitteHunden Absolutely not. Tanks in Naxx25 had at best 22-25 sometimes maybe a bit more...mostly Druids who were at about 27-28k. It was in Ulduar that the HP started to rise into 40-50k. By the time you finished ToC and went into ICC and geared yourself you would be at 50-55, Druids around 60-65k...and some insanely good geared could go up to 70-80k fully buffed.
I came in at BC, but I remember the days of Hunters needing ammo AND mana! I admit to being glad that it became Focus instead, but I miss ammo. My level 72 Tauren Hunter still has her ammo pouch from those days. I had stopped leveling her for ages while I focused on other classes. Anyway, huge respect to you, sir. My friend and I took our level 90s through Naxx, only to get hung up on Thaddeus. We have crap machines and that didn't help matters. But man... to have run it back in the day...
I started playing like 1,5 year before bc came out. Yeah mana and ammo i do remember that haha. I was shocked and was hard to get used too after they changed that. And it was a pain in the old days :p
Solaxe S thats how hunter are in real life. it makes sense to have ammo. Its not garbage it was the real hunter now they made some magic appearence of shots fired. How do you explain that? Meh more slots in Bag? fuck you
NOW I understand outrage and disappointment of people seeing better green gear drop in Hellfire Peninsula. I started playing on TBC so I had no idea how hard it was to get that top gear. Not even close to how hard it was.
mhx47 the point is you did it when it was hard. Think of it like winning a gold medal in the 1920 Olympics. Those athletes sucked shit compared today, but they worked equally hard and were simply limited by technology. Winning the gold is still impressive, regardless if it was beaten thousands of times with the advent of scientific dieting and exercise (gear and lots of guides are analogous)
benblue3 Yes, but then first green drop from world mob or Q in Outland and... the feelings when it is better than what you fought for so long not so long ago.
Hey dude, thanks for making this video with the statistics and compares. I really liked it and enjoyed watching it :) For me personally Naxx 40 is the best raid that i did (raided everything till LK25). Also raided Naxx for 2 years on Feenix Warsong realm (cleared everything except Kel'thuzad). Even thou it's a private server i feel like i have achieved something by doing it, coz it's hard as hell. Like always keep 'em coming, big fan :)
Thanks for your comment, and I'd love to do naxx 40 on warsong but my gear on my main char only allows to tag along with MC pugs and maybe some BWL if I'm really really lucky so naxx 40 is unfortunately out of the question for me. I salute you for getting all the way up to KT, that takes some serious dedication :)
HamsterWheelGaming Great video man! I have played on feenix and their standard of quality is to low for me, don't know about you, but you should check out www.kronos-wow.com/
People are not wrong when they say these fights were mechanically easy in comparison to raids today, that is a correct statement. The problem was (as shown in this video) were the absolutely insane scale of the abilities the bosses had. For example, the locust swarm doing 1,200 damage a second when i remember my rogue maybe having close to 4k hp? That's a little harsh especially coming from a first boss. I would also disagree that most modern day bosses aren't really that hard, it just requires a bit of thinking. In whatever way they may be.. naxx 40 is probably the hardest raid WoW has ever seen.
Classic players will annihilate Naxx -Reps farmed already -Everyone already geared to the teeth -Resistance sets done already -No lag in raid -Generally more skilled playerbase compared to 2006 All in all this video will be pretty anachronistic come that time.
You're forgetting the part where Blizz announced BC and essentially a gear wipe. Why would anyone want to raid Naxx? I look forward to people clearing it day 1 when it releases on classic.
Pretty much this, Kel'Thuzad isn't difficult in terms of even normal raid content now. Naxx wasn't done because why would we? TBC was right around the corner with actually good content.
Of course it will be cleared week one by a few guilds. Unlike back then, you all have guides and gear lists to prepare you for it long before it even releases. Everyone will already have farmed the shit out of BWL and AQ40 for BiS of that phase in prep for Naxx. Everyone will be more than prepared gear wise, so only thing that's left is coordination and strategy which are all more than available these days with easily accessible voice comms like discord and strategies from youtube and websites. With all those advantages, of course they'll clear it within in a week, I have no doubts about that. People these days have it a lot easier because all the work has already been done by the old players. No need to trial and error bosses and figure out how to kill them after many wipes and different scheduling of raids to try again, everything can be easily prepared Day 1.
I like your video, lots of memories from vanilla in your story. :) One thing to add about the consumables which I don't think people really are aware of today unless they really remember the details, specifically mana potions. In vanilla (and TBC) there was no limit to one potion per combat. So back in the day I remember healers chugging the first pot like at 80% mana and then as soon as it came of cd a minute or two later they chugged another. Take this into account and all the wiping and trying on bosses. Now you understand that you needed lots of pots. I remember my healer friends filled entire bags with mana potions for when we went to the harder raids. :)
I loved Naxx, but the biggest problem was really the timing. Most raiders started dropping off not seeing a point in spending 4 hours a day raiding a place knowing the gear would be 100% obsolete in a couple months.
HamsterWheelGaming Do you still have that PC-case and would you please share the brand and name? I'm looking for a new one and that sidedoor looks very convenient.
The people who cry about WoW being ruined by casuals, putting BC and vanilla on a pedestal as the pinnacle of raiding, often seem to confuse many things for difficulty. Long attunement quests, blizz screwing up the balance of the fights (as they often did back then), gameplay issues that WoW had at that time, and other issues like stacking resist gear or trying to get 40 people to do what they're supposed to don't mean the raid was difficult. It just means the content was broken and inaccessible, and your 40-man group had people that can't follow directions. It also just seemed harder because everything was new at that point, and there were no "seasoned" raiders like there are now. If you really think that 40-man naxx was harder than, say, mythic BRF is now...you're not referring to the actual fights themselves. You're referring to all the barriers blizz used to put down to make it hard to get to do the content, not the content itself. Just because it's easier to actually get the chance to try raiding content now than it was in the old days, doesn't mean the raids themselves are easier. People who say this kind of stuff simply miss the feeling of superiority that came from knowing you were one of a relatively small group of people who got to do something. They are now disillusioned, because once all the pain in the ass barriers that kept people from doing the content were removed...suddenly it becomes clear that pretty much anyone can do the stuff that these people thought they were so skilled for accomplishing before. Also...I'd bet my next paycheck that 99% of the people complaining about lack of difficulty these days don't have a mythic kill on Imperator or Blackhand. Quit farting around your garrison and go down these bosses that you keep saying are a joke.
The Metal One the problem is that there is no tiered raiding. Ever since BRF came out, NOBODY does highmaul. When SOO came out, NOBODY did TOT.. back in the day, my guild was on c'thun for months and we still cleared all of MC every week, and BWL. They need to bring back tiered raiding instead of this bullshit "do the same raid 4 times a week on different difficulties, it's fun!" People aren't referring to gating making the raids difficult, they are referring to 40 people vs 20 people, and inexperienced players vs players that have been raiding in this game for 10 years... Bosses ARE mechanically harder now, but player skill + toolkit has increased vastly.
Same with BC/Wrath.. when we were working on BT, we still did all of Hyjal(AND TK). Wrath we were working on Ulduar and still clearing naxx 25.. it's boring as fuck doing the same raid every time you want to raid.. this game is so simplified now that it is literally disgusting.
Michael Myers Vanilla: You need to raid MC BWL and AQ40. Even if you are geared for Naxx. BC: You need to raid Kara and climb your way up like in Vanilla. Not to mention: Heroics ... hard as fuck. And even with Guilds raiding Hyjal: they still did Kara for farm runs. WotlK: TOC negated the need for Naxx and HoR,PoS and SF negated the need for Ulduar. Altho the Legendary hammer in U25 was neat. Also: Naxx gave a shitload of Crystalls. Not to mention the Weekly. Still: you NEEDED to do TOK both 10 and 25 on non hero and hero to get to LK. And LK to get to Rub. It gradually got worse in Cata and MOP.
I feel you WOW raiding was/is such a combination of fun and hope disappointment. It does strengthen relationships until it's too many fails. As long as there's progress it's possible to move on but when you're stalled on a boss for too long it becomes difficult to motivate the whole team to give 100% Some might enter the raid without farming flasks etc and hope to be carried. My guild used to include a gold charge for people turning up without requisite mats or flasks. This was WOTLK so I have no idea how much harder it would have been back then. I started WOW just before BC. A group of 5 of us doddled up to lvl100 over years. We played in the same group every wednesday Night. (Hunter, Rogue, Paladin, Priest, Warrior) We always lacked a mage for AOE. It was fun times though. We managed about 8 years with the full group then we dropped to 4 and then 3. Wotlk was the highlight beacuse we all joined the same rading guild and raided together. That was fun. And a big commitment even then. Loving WOW classic. Great videos. Luv and Peace.
@7:45 Ulduar bear health vs undergeared mage. 3.7k-3.9k and 24k-26k would be a much more realistic comparison considering naxx was the first raid of wrath and the last tier of classic. but your point stands, the damage was nearly the same despite the differences in gear, level, and what not. Kinda like loot from molten core, zul'gurub, and AQ40. almost the same.
Harald Schmid that's one of the things, people who defended the bad game design seem to confuse dedication to tedious farming with being difficult... ironically I think this is the reason why City players call Mythic Raiders today no lifers, even if they only play 6 to 9 hours a week
I'm sure the respec cost was 50g at cap. Might be wrong but that's what I remember. But damn I loved vanilla wow and TBC. Nothing beat the feeling of a guild first kill. The screaming and frantic whooping and all huddling up for a screenshot next to the downed boss. I do feel the LFR and the fact that the logistics of raiding being made so easy has completely ruined raiding for me. I think when people say they miss vanilla wow, it's important to note that it was really a different game and it was played VERY differently. The social aspect was far stronger. Mechanically it was far weaker than todays game but I don't think the trade off was worth it. It doesn't feel like an MMO any more. It feels like a glorified lobby where you run around tapping jump outside the AH until your screen goes "DUM DUM DUUUUM!" and whisks you away to some raid with a bunch of whingy tossers you never met before."
+Fangle Spangle That's what it's become. The current state of WoW can be pretty much a single player game, if so chosen. It's perfect for people like me, who have a lot less time (and willpower) to allot to the game but still want to feel like they've got some form of power in the game. What was sacrificed to achieve that though was substance, which is what kept me in the game for all these years. WoD was the final nail in the coffin for hardcore players, and I'm happy to say I'm on Nostralius now. I used to tell myself the glory days were in the past and my WoW is dead. Not anymore. ;')
+Fangle Spangle heh 50g was crazy expensive, even later in TBC it was still quite a lot if you, there was no Dual Spec even. I remember doing all dungeons in Vanilla and TBC as Fury Warrior with friend 2 Mages for sheeps and 2 Healers so I could stay alive without Prot :) Was actually really good Setup Warrior (Fury), 2x Mage, Holy Priest, Holy Paladin :)
Coming back to this video after the release of classic is hilarious. I can't wait to see naxx destroyed utterly in classic. Esp since i remember people saying you needed full fire resist sets for ragnaros and they cleared it not only without fire resist gear but without even being fully level capped.
You remember people saying something about MC? Probably cause basically all of the population of WoW only ever tried MC. No one ever actually said MC was remotely challenging. And they had FR buffs from the mobs outside in BRM and pots, so...
@@jynxycats >And they had FR buffs from the mobs That's not what he said. People were saying you actually needed fire resist sets and stacks of consumables and shit, which is obviously false
@@jynxycats Plenty of people think MC was challenging, just go look at mmochampion and all the people that thought it was going to take months for anybody to clear it lol.
I cleared Nax worldfirst (Nihilum telefon ud warrior with thunderfury) and about all those resistance gear, what is he talking about ? We used frost gear for Saph yeah but all the other stuff ? Only other res gear i had was nature for some AQ40 stuff but nothing in Nax. And looking back to Nax, i agree it was very hardcore...i loved it that way. I belive there were some gear checks that contributed to why it took so long to clear. For example the four horsemen, was VERY VERY hard if you didnt have 6+ tanks with i think it was 4 piece tier3 dreadnaught right ? it gave unresistable taunt or something like that witch was more or less mandatory for that fight and to get 4piece on all those tanks took quite awhile in it self. Then there were some bosses with pretty deep (at that time) mechanics that took awhile to figure out while not having BIS gear. Gothik was pretty easy WHEN you had top dps gear, but without it you EASELY got overwhelmed. I loved my time in Nax, tbh in my 20year+ gaming experience this was the most fun i ever had in gaming. I honestly didnt remember lag or fps issues at all. Maybe once or twice at Thaddius but it wasnt that bad to me. WoW died to me when raids stopped beeing like NAX40, top guilds clearing the raids in like 1-2 weeks and shit. I loved how highly tuned stuff was back then...except for when it was delibirate cockblocks like CTHUN. Lovely video tho, brought back some found memories :)
1:37 - Before I continue the video, let me just say...so what? People have a sense of entitlement these days and that's why raids like this will never exist anymore. The casuals have ruined the game because they did not want hardcore players to have something special. Still to this day people demand that Vampiric Batling from the Karazhan event to be put on the BMAH. It's the sense of entitlement people have. If you weren't playing when the batling was out, or you weren't good enough to clear to Tendris then suck it up and accept it.
My DKP deficit was so bad after my guild helped me build my thunderfury that I dropped from main tank to 3rd tank and went into Naxx with pretty much only might.
It's funny how everyone keep talking bad in the comments about Vanilla.. Yet we have 7000 active players on Nostalrius begins a private server.. People unsubscripted their retail, to play on this server, and GOSH... this is fucking real MMORPG. Yea it's a grind, but level is fun, community is great. Outdoor pvp everywhere. People grouping to do quests. Wherever you go, there's people on the same quest as you. Also, it wasn't just a grind in 1 instance to get everyone geared... people farmed loot from ZG, AQ20, MC and BWL all zones had some BiS gear for each class, so it wasn't just a grind in 1 instance, to go on for next high end instance. When i search on blizzards forums, i start to feel they are threatened by this Private server.. Most of their posts has been deleted when they contain "Nostalrius". Also on Twitch.tv Many players streaming this server got their account banned, on request by blizzard. It had incredible amount of viewers this game. I'm amazed why blizzard fight it so much, instead of just creating their own vanilla - tbc - wrath servers. They have the patches in archives. and empty servers. If they are afraid of not selling new retail copies, just only enable this servers for people only with latest expansion copy so they still sell new copies. Its strange how you can choose to play Diablo 2, or Diablo 2 LoD. but you can't choose to play vanilla, tbc, wrath but only WoD Nostalrius is an epic server, get 2-3-4 mates on skype, start level'ing and ENJOY. game is not forgiving, and even level'ing can be difficult! HF everyone!
Edit: up to 7000 online at the same time in peak hours.... probably 10-12.000 active's - Point being... Blizzard.. Let people play the game they desire!
Izzy Games the millions on the live servers, dont have any other option, so ofc that is the most represented side. I'm happy with Nostalrius and what that server gives to me, and there's no need to disguss this any further, because you will never believe there's a market for vanilla servers/ tbc on retail, until the day blizzard makes them and you see it with your own eyes :)
Morten Fønsskov Never said there wasn't a market. I just said that if people prefered vanilla they would go to the FREE vanilla server rather than pay for the service they apparently don't want. I know there's a small niche market for old servers. I played on TBC servers for a while. Loved TBC.
This brings back memories. Our guild cleared up to and including 4HM, then two of our fully geared tanks decided to take a break (which is quite understandable) and we were done. Still our time raiding Naxxramas is one of the most painful, yet enjoyable experiences of my life and something I will always reminisce about. The feeling of downing a new boss in spite of immense adversity and listening to 39 other people screaming in absolute exhilaration....that was something special.
Respawning trash is one thing I hated from vanilla and BC. Way too much of a toll on the average player if you ask me... wasn't fun and it made learning certain bosses cause many people to just drop raiding altogether over time.
Yea raiding isn't supposed to be for casual players. There's plenty of stuff to do for casuals, which is evident by the large player base that just didn't raid, raiding used to be reserved for those who were willing to put in the time and effort. In that way Vanilla was a game for everyone and felt rewarding for all. Once TBC came out and pretty much anyone could raid, it really defeated the purpose of being a dedicated raider, or even a dedicated pvper. The bar was lowered and diluted the accomplishments of those end game raiders. Saying you cleared a certain raid lost a lot of meaning once everyone was doing it lol.
Dante I am not sure why you really mentioned BC raiding being a time where it was more accessible, because most raiding guilds never got out of tier4 raiding due to tier5 being so difficult. The most anyone did was kill VR in TK, but couldn't down anything else, let alone get through that hydross wall in SSC. And thanks to this, the same guilds were also incapable of getting into BC/hyjal due to the gear requirements; catch up mechanics let you have a chance at ditching guilds and hopping over if they were needing your class badly, but other than that I am not sure I agree with you. BC raiding was far more difficult than vanilla raiding. The only reason most guilds never got through BWL in vanilla was due to MC/ony remaining relevant for the entirety of vanilla, even if you were in naxx. The time required was all that separated players, and imo it was an unreasonable time differential. I never made it into naxx40 myself, but I did clear AQ40.. and that alone required a 4 day raiding schedule at 4 hours each day. The reason? AQ40 trash was harder/more time consuming that most of the frickin boss fights in the place. That stretch leading up to the twin emperors was hellish, and if your raid wiped then the run back took 15 minutes. That isn't skill based, it isn't good design, and it simply meant that people like myself who was able to play 6-8 hours a day got to experience more content in vanilla than someone who played 3-4 hours a day. BC reduced the trash grind, but drastically upped the boss difficulty. This now gated players who were unskilled rather than unable to play 6+ hours a day. Dedicated raiders had t5-t6. Casual raiders had tier 4+catch up gear until wrath hit... if they even raided to begin with thanks to all of the attunement chains.
My father claims to have cleared Nax. He was in the top guild on Dalaran server. He divorced in 2003 and did nothing, but drink and play WoW with his work buddies on the weekends and played during the week as well. He played a frost mage. Is there a way to prove it?
Blizz should do something like Timewalking Raids and showing ppl nowadays the cruelty of vanilla, no nerfs, give the newest players a way to experience of those things
Coincidentally, they made Season of Mastery a few years ago. That was all pre-nerf and even "hey let's be assholes and make these fight harder." for all bosses from ZG/MC to Naxxramas. Garr for example sent out Stone Elementals to suicide into players in Molten Core, C'Thun did his Nature Beam to all players.
Think it was just a logistical nightmare, and seemed to narrow down the number of people for the sake of it on some level as many of the issues were routed in being too time-consuming for a vast number of players. Besides that, there's also a very narrow pool of players with the contacts to be able to facilitate this kind of raid - i.e. having finding a steady, regular raiding party of 40 every week for several raids would've been impossible for a lot of otherwise capable players.
Shoutout to my bros on Scarlet Crusade RP server. I remember seeing the corrupted ashbringer on a Tauren Warrior and thought it could literally cleave the alliance in two.
Hearing theses numbers actually makes me slightly proud that our super casual fun guild back in the days managed to clear spider wing (easiest obviously) and Razuvious. I seem to remember that we tried some of the further bosses like Patchwork or Noth, but didn't quite make it before the release of BC. Also I feel you pain about being a healer back then. As a dedicated holy priest (and Tank group 1 main healer) I did quite a bit of farming for potions and food. Even levelling cooking, fishing and your profession (Alchemy in my case) was a task in itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's bad that so many things have gotten easier lately. I think many activities in vanilla were innecessarily tedious, but that is just the way it is whn a game develops over such a long time and I look back fondly at these days. :)
Haha! I remember I would take PUGS into AQ40, at level 80, full 40 man raids and they would refuse to listen to me on Twins and Cthun and we would wipe over and over, I CANNOT WAIT for Classic servers, I'm just worried that Blizz is going to nerf or ruin something after someone cries about lvl 1 Dodge twinks
No matter how fancy blizzard gets with modern day boss mechanics, nothing will ever top the difficulty of running Thaddius with 40 players all on mid 2000s internet connections.
I was exalted because Plaguelands were one of the only places to farm for shards as a level 60 lock. Naxx was tough I was lucky enough to kill KT before wrath. The worst part was nothing in Naxx gave soul shards and everyone needed a healthstone for lothab. Back then you needed to make and hand them out one at a time. That was after summoning the raid one by one (which cost a soul stone for each summon. So I never had any bag space.
+Jordan Shank What the hell are you both and the guy who made this video smoking? At the end of the expansion, with the 30% HP buff, a 25 man ICC geared tank might be sitting around 50k, but clothies in Naxx were sitting around 10-12k HP. When Blizz put out the patch for Cata, they got rid of stats, redistributing a lot of that stat weight on gear to stam and boosted the base HP for each class. I remember gaining 10k HP over night in ICC from that patch and it made the raid a cake walk. And not to mention Blizz has consistently buffed HP since Cata. What you had at lvl 80 while leveling in MoP, when this video was released, wasn't anything near what HP was back then. The reason lvl 80 Naxx was so damn easy compared to the 40 man version has little to do with damage dealt and everything to do with the evolution of the game. The mechanics had been around for years by that point and were in 5 man dungeons. People knew what they were doing. There was 40 people in the raid back then, causing lag, and encounters were balanced around only 25 of those players being decent. Then there was the attunement and gear needed to get into the raid, meaning once someone met the requirements, they bounced to a guild on Naxx. And it wasn't that the gear was so insanely good, it was that 40 man bosses dropped only about 1 or 2 pieces of loot, 3 if you were lucky back then for a 40 man raid. I can't take what this video says seriously when the dude makes such a moronic error as to say clothies had 35k HP (and he was supposedly there) when bosses were doing less than 2k a tick with a dot. Not that Naxx was hard, but if it was tuned like this dude remembers, it'd have been a 5 man or soloable back then.
I like how he talks about how hard healers had it. Tanks had it WAAAAY worse back then. Dodge, parry, block, dodge, parry, block. If you had too much of one stat over another youd hit diminishing returns and would be instantly killed because even trash mobs did enough dmg to one shot the tank if he wasnt perfectly itemized, and you couldn't transmute stats on your gear, you had to farm the same boss for weeks to get the right piece of gear that had the dodge parry or block you were missing to get your percentages just right. Tanks also used to do no damage because defense stats took the place of offensive ones like crit so it was a nightmare farming those pots having to drop all your CDs on every monster just to kill it..... Ugh. Tanks didnt have aoe taunts so threat control was a nightmare. No aoe that a tank could produce hit more than 3 things at one time, so even trash mobs couldn't be killed without cc of some kind because there was no way to maintain threat on even 4 monsters, and it's ALWAYS the tanks fault if threat isn't maintained...... Kids these days do not understand pain.
While aoe-tanking was for sure way harder back then compared to live, the tank actually was responsible for specifiying the kill-order (marking mobs) and pulling the mobs to a zone where players were able to CC certain mobs and then focus on the skull. Besides that, warrior tanks could generate threat by spamming battleshout or demo-shout. The former produced like 50 or 55 thread per affected player while the latter one produced a bit less per mob. Considering that most of the time you'd be given like 3-5 seconds to get aggro before DD's kicked in and an average DD dealt like 200-300 DPS, you should've only lost attention if you'd either got CC'd or the DD didn't focus the skull. Usually keeping shield slam, revenge and sunder up on the main target should have kept that mob for a little time on you so you could use battleshout to generate ae-threat and then start working on the second target and intersperse battle and demoshouts.
I've never heard of diminishing returns on defensive abilities such as dodge and parry before. I thought you were trolling, but it seems you're right. Very interesting. Was this removed in TBC? I'm specifically asking because I recall seeing rogue tanks on at least the Gruul fight (mostly dodging the attacks). I assume there were no issues with diminishing returns for those instances.
Hamsterwheel, love this video. But curious if you could do a video comparing the difficulty you cover in this vid, and your actual experience in taking down KT recently. Was it truly as hard currently as it was back in the day that you make light of in this vid?
+m4rk90me I'm not going to speak for the rest of the world because I don't know what the rest of the world does. I can only imagine that because of America's diplomacy and social influence, there are probably other countries that have adopted the Webster style of American English simply because of other countries having their own reforms after the British Empire fell and after America became what is arguably the world' most influential country. But that's my speculation. I've seen non-American TH-camrs use American style English in annotations for their videos or when they speak (Lindybeig?), but how common it is I can't say for certain. British English could definitely be more common (and their arithmetic standard), but again, I'm not going to take a definite stance other than I know SOME people outside of America do it this way.
There are also a number of inaccuracies in this video. Properly geared clothies had way more than 4000 hp. I did naxxramas in a mix of mostly dungeon blues, some pvp gear, some tier 1 gear and benediction (epic priest weapon). This gave me slightly over 4000 hp; I remember this since you needed 4000 hp to survive Anubarak's impale. I assume actual tier 2 gear/tier 2.5 gear would grant up to 4500-5000 hp for clothies. By the time naxx was released, there were a number of reforms going that started adding things like spelldamage to dungeon blues and pvp gear (even the blue pvp gear, which was decently attainable), which made it easier to get into those dungeons without actually needing to get full tier1/full tier 2. And then there were completely broken addons like Heart which allowed you to heal better than an AI; if you used that addon, you basically outhealed everyone regardless of gear.
As an answer to the video: Yes. Yes and fucking yes. Only people who didn't play Vanilla, or those who doesn't like WoW nor Vanilla for its skill requirement and endurance, would say otherwise. It was obviously extremely hard compared to WoW later and nowadays, which is pure faceroll. You were forced to farm consumables, you couldn't get away with having the best gear possible, AD rep was hard to acquire, keys, sick four horsemen fight (insane), so on. It was clearly the best days of WoW.
@omensoffate You either started in MoP or you're a victim of the skill requirement and endurance in Vanilla. What we do know for sure is that you're unintelligent, judging from that short and meaningless post.
@omensoffate Nice argument, mongloid. Another victim of complex and difficult gameplay, I imagine. Either that or you haven't even played it. Pathetic, lul.
Started in late TBC, didn't raid until WotLK Naxx, but the leveling sucked ass and from what I've seen the raiding was just a test of how much shit you can eat rather than how actually skilled you are. Classic WoW was a bad game.
My guild was near end of bwl and entry aq40 during this period, lots of the issues were compensated for by simply having a good guild. You weren't some random member you put in an application form to the guild and went through try outs. Getting attuned (usually gained by running guild alts or speed runs in general) wasn't bad. Enchaters Mats typically provided by guild as Mc, bwl, aq 20 and zg were on farm status and cheaper then outright buying them. And having multiple high level alts for farming mats was very common as dual specs as pointed out were far to pricey.
![The Story of Kel'Thuzad - Part 1 of 2 [Lore]](/img/n.gif)
Our tank used to look at the ground to try and increase his fps.
+davebeastly thats what i do now because shit laptop
Brilliant.
+davebeastly I did it also.
+davebeastly I can relate to that. #feelsbadman
+davebeastly hahahahahhaa
I didn't mind not being able to access Nax before TBC came out. It gave me something to look forward to. It meant that when I saw someone in Ironforge walking around in Naxx armor, it was a genuine "daaaaamn" feeling.
I miss that.
+Serevarno same, when legendaries were a "daaamn" thing as well. i remember seeing someone with 2 warglaives of azzinoth and was like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.
+Serevarno Agreed. Thats also why I kinda laugh at the prima donnas that call themselves PvE players these days. Lol you think this game is hard now in retail? XD
Yes yes uhh so tough cus you played Vanilla people.. Let's be honest vanilla sucked dunkey balls when it was literally centered around blizzard being too lazy to actually find meaningful ways to gear up to a raid, instead forcing you to farm.
I think the tube set my comment for the wrong one.. But now that we are enemies get a superman pic to go with your Vegan attitude, something to think about whilst you are doing crossfit, miss or ahem kiddo. (Never braised the game as is, but the people who keep saying vanilla this and vanilla that.. may cancer take them).
I literally cannot tell if you've heard of sarcasm before, but i bid the fortune in wars to come, for surely you will start some with your bad attitude ;)
I'd like to add to this that voice comms, player cooperation and coordination and a general understanding of raiding mechanics were also relatively new. I can only imagine the trouble those early pioneers had getting to grips with high level raiding, much less manage 39 other players on ancient hardware, shaky internet connections and about a million other factors that could hinder playing properly.
That was the eta when “real” mechanics started. AQ40 was the intro, Naxx40 was college-level.
Righf, like now everyone has discord or other very accessible communication means. Back then, discord was NEW-NEW. So in my guild, we all pitched in to a phone press conference service and different parts of the raid called in to different numbers. It was so ooo ANCIENT compared to now
@@ElSombraRegio7ventrillo and team speak were the way back then
I was doing 200 fleets in Eve online in 2004 using Teamspeak, so it wasn't that much of a new thing in 2007 or whatever.
"But guess how many guilds actually cleared naxrammas..."
Me: 23
"Nope you're wrong, 23"
☹️
Chosen on my server Firetree cleared it.
Your wrong lol ok you was right
Your medal is in the mail
Stolen comment....
Just because you guessed it, doesn't mean you're right.
It also needs to be taken into account the level of hardware and bandwidth we were dealing with back then. I was healing MC/BWL/AQ/Naxx at 720x480. Which means most of my screen was player HP bars.
sometimes i still cry that i didnt got currupted ashbringer, i saw it dropp.....but the "main" dps warrior got it....he stopped playing 2 months later......
florian frueh "The wounds dont seem to heal, the pain is just too real, there is just too much time cannot erase!..."
florian frueh Krodos got banned not quit. Then again IO fell apart right after anyways.
....? if you tried that we were in the same guild, you failed.^^
Its ok, hunters are all the same on sapph
Chris Fleury i never was on that server, but if you say so
I remember using wands as a mage when I ran out of mana! xD
Yeah. The glory days of mages actually using wands :)
Damn! Haha didn't remember that until now. 2 piece T3 frost Mage in vanilla!
dagger throwing rogues lol
+tristansliebestod um what? nobody did that
in bwl rogue class call, ''you are hitting me from behind come face me'' from his faceside they were taking dmg, we were pulling rogues to max range even with low dps they were not dying
, it was throwing knife or something like that
i am editing this one : not bwl last fight, it was in majordomo's phase or something like that which everyone was using range attacks only
Getting exalted with the Argent Dawn was the EASY part
Once you actually entered Naxxramas it was like:
-"Oh god, what have I gotten myself into?"
I believe I still owe Money for all the repair bills during that time....
I remember the day our tank reached 10.000 health with a few naxx gear and full buff. It was a very exciting day.
+Shabir Parwaz crazy how back then that was a huge milestone for the guild. Same with epic mounts. Was a guild wide celebration!
Just hitting 60 was a big thing back then, unlike nowdays ppl with many alts..
+ToraxReborn xD 50 - 60 was like doing 1-100 and 1-50 was like doing 1-100 was so fucking brutal.
+Shabir Parwaz 10k health meant they must had about the most health on the server. t3 warrior gear is still the best looking gear.
ToraxReborn not really 1-100 u can get in a day even in WoD vanilla 1-60 took about 3-6 months depending on ur time u play and just how long it took
I think you missed something. The World bosses dropped some gear people could use for Naxx. and the whole server was fightning each other to get those bosses down.
Kim those were the best days of wow... wow sucks so bad now.. it’s a game you pay to have your hand held... pussified!! We need vanilla wow, hardcore original vanilla wow immediately switched from current patch to give these little liberal cunts a taste of gaming reality... next stop actual reality!
@@papaversomniferum5247 Vanilla wow was not difficult. The most difficult part about vanilla wow was finding 40 skill players on your server. The mechanics while unforgiving they are simple. Now take players from current mythic raiding game they will destroy this content because people now programmed for difficult mechanics. Yes I cleared Naxx40 in vanilla in the world top 10
@@sundronez and therefore you don't have the perspective to know how bad people really are. Guess you've always played with close knitted group of friends never having to deal with casuals or clueless people.
I'm not saying it was impossible but finding 40 skilled, and devoted players who are willing to farm rep, farm consumables every day like crazy and have the time for whole shizznit and constant wipes while learning the content was not easy. It was a constant grind, and I came to WoW from Lineage 2 where Grind was at least 10x times worse. (~3 months farming every day non stop to get at the time mats to craft best weapon for one of my chars).
Also, Naxx wasn't in the game that long, so once Server first was obtained, most of people slowed down, yeah ppl wanted gear, but as I said, Naxx wasn't in the game for that long before BC, many were bored and waiting for expansion. And you cannot call it easy when KT would insta gib fully geared Tank if a single frostbolt wasn't interrupted, hell even when it just came out, getting Patchwerk was kinda a feat even with best pre Naxx gear (and I think timer was longer?). Once people got some Naxx gear it was easier, but it was just too much hassle. I mean it was both fun, and everyone hated it, espec. the respawns....
I quit WoW long time ago, (kinda tempted to come back), but nothing I saw in current welfare game that WoW turned into doesn't look close to real Grind and difficulty of Old Naxx (And it's not 40 ppl if they are not all Naxx geared, you'd have to swap in people for some fights so it was more like 40 plus another 15-ish people on standby. It was like a full time job.
And no I didn't clear whole Naxx tho' my guild did - I think I was in a race for High Warlord rank at the time, and there was this Spanish dude who was in all Spanish guild with some 800+ ppl that all played his account and I swore an oath to get it before him xD. (My wife, then fiancee almost left me because of constant grind :P)
@@zchesus Many of the difficulties were constructs of the time. The gamer community and the MMO community is no where as extensive or as skilled as it is now, so finding 40 people who were skilled enough in an era of minimal server mobility was extremely difficult. When most people made their characters they did so with no real thought put into which server you played on beyond my friend plays here. Where as now for Classic people already have full on recruitment going on for 40 man guilds, etc. Next was internet connections and lag were a thing of the time, now we live in a world where 50-75ms is considered OK, in Vanilla many people ran at 200-300MS and that was good. As for dealing with casual/clueless people yes it happened from time to time but I have consistently been world top 1000 guild and been world first, so I understand how to play, what is required to play at that high level. The guild I raided with (Deus Vox) had a very short bench of 6-10 and we had some alts that were geared.
As for farming rep and consumables.....That became a joke once AQ40 hit because you could sell runs for gold even back then for BWL and then after into AQ40(we sold access to other guilds who could not get passed twin's to get their gear from tokens). This gold was turned into consumables for the raid.
As for easy, it was and will be in classic for the current MMO player. This is what I was saying take current WoW mythic raiders and put them in Naxx and they will have it cleared in a couple weeks at most. Longest possible part will get getting FrR for the Sapph and warrior tanks geared for 4h. This is due to the mechanics while being punishing are very rudimentary compared to what people in Mythic deal with now. In Vanilla you had one maybe 2 mechanics per fight, very little personal responsibility(beyond Thaddius and that was do you know what your left and right are) compared to now, multiphase, multiple mechanic, high personal responsibility fights, and yes with 40 players it is easier to kick a cast consistently than with 20. But the biggest difference now will be the amount of outside the raid preparation that will take place, Simming your character, figuring out optimal rotations, perfecting strats and raid comps, videos of the fights, etc. All of these were in their infancy in Vanilla and in with Classic release they will be at the level of current game.
As for HW/GM in PVP I will admit that was a grind but and took lots of time but it was anything but difficult. There was no MMR matching system so as a geared player you went up against terrible players regularly.....I know this because as a guild we went into WSG only wearing weapons and trinkets and beat the other team still 3-1, we had no other armor on.
@@sundronez I figured we were talking was it hard for the average player back then not for inc vanilla servers. Only a part of the population will seriously play them imho and they will burn through content so quickly and won't have anything to do and they will get bored just as we got bored back then. Tho I must admit I am nostalgic and would love to go through the experience for a first time again (which would require me a) getting amnesia and b) actually having that much free time from family life)
Reading your post, I do remember selling spots for AQ and lesser raids, also remember guild bank being huuuuge AF. But we were kinda the only guild Horde side on our server who was that way.... As you said, constructs of the time.
I'll have to take your word for the current Mythic raids, I quit before the end of WOTLK so I am really out of the loop. (But I've been experiencing a WoW itch lately :P)
Rank 14 was just a grind, only skilled part was pulling 1 vs 5-6 ppl kills. Yes, you usually outgeared them or at least some of them, but it could be challenging, espec. as warrior vs frost mages, shadow priests etc. (I PvPed as fury in BG's, Arms in Arena), there was an MMR for arena tho, but it was still bad.
Yes, only 23 guilds cleared Naxxramas. But don't forget that this patch was VERY short. Most guilds simply didn't have the time to beat it. If WotLK's last patch (ICC) was given the same amount of time to beat it, less guilds would have killed Lich King 25 HC. (0 guild to be exact, it took Paragon ~4 months to beat 25 hc ICC WITH 5% BUFF)
While Naxxramas was the hardest raid dungeon ever. Lich King 25 heroic was definitely the hardest boss ever. (without the 5-10-15% buff.)
no
Phryke 25 Heroic LK falled the first day?! Lol, are Paragon that good?
Lich King was unkillable at first. One guild managed to do it but got the kill revoked due to abusing a bug to keep the platform extention up to stop people being dropped off the edge.
That "bug" wasnt even abused really....First, it was normal LK(no fucks given), Second...The rogue used those same bombs, on CD, every time, since the start of WotLK...How would they even know what was causing it...
@biglolol fucking wrong you moron. Naxx 40 was cleared by 130 guilds pre TBC release of which 97 did it pre 2.01 patch. Most of these guild were EU guilds even though US head a decent head start ^^ US players just suck
What people failed to remember is the sheer amount of consumables needed: Now you can only use one battle and one guardian elixer, but then you could, or rather needed to use all of them As a Naxx hunter back then this was my list of "mandatory" items:
2 Flasks of Titans (Some fights required everyone to have more hp)
2 flasks of Supreme power (Some fights required to have the maximum dps)
10 of the appropiate greater resistance potions (3 different types)
10 Greater arcane Elixers
10 Purification Potions
10 Elixers of Mongoose
10 Elixers of brute force
10 Elixers of Fortitude
10 Elixers of Mageblood
10 Elixers of Greater Intellect
10 Scrolls of Agility IV
10 Scrolls of Stamina IV
10 Scrolls of Intellect IV
20 Major mana potions
20 Brilliant wizard oil (16 was the minimum for our seceduled 4 hour raid, but sometimes it lasted longer)
This was takeing up 32 of our bag space (usually 2 full bags) next to the fact that we had to have a quiver full of arrows (AV/Engineering, or Doomshot (LBRS Farm) and the last 2 bags were usually filled with specific resist gear. i believe i had one spot free just incase i was able to buy (Dkp) something that raid but that was it.
As a guild itself you also needed to get Repair bots, wich were quite expensive, and required materials only dropped in beloved Gnomeregan to farm.
And this was with Full T2.5 set, Full Aq 20 set, 2 pieces of ZG set, 3 pieces of Tier 2 set, and the rest of the items mainly from BWL
Also we had to use arcane shot vs aimed shot for multiple reasons, with the raid debuffs (nightfall, Curse of shadows) arcane damage was increased by 25%, while lowering the resistance by 75, the spell damage bonuses on the T2.5 set + consumables brought you to 349 spell damage makeing the arcane shot do 500 non crit arcane damage without haveing to stay motionless for 3 seconds (wich in some times was horrible) and without loseing time on autoshoots. It was also way more mana efficient. Also the armor of the mobs and bosses was so high that the sheer armor reduction on aimed shot made arcane shot way more viable.
another thing that is failed to mention is that a lot of buffs only applied to groups, (eg aura's or totems, imp buffs, shouts, trueshot aura's) wich ment you had to switch groups regarding wich boss you did, also the bosses only had 16 debuff slots, wich ment every single slot of the boss was reserved for a specific debuff, wich lowered the dps of individuals to favor the increase of dps for the raid. Gathering the materials, or money to buy them was work in itself
Now next to that were the fights itself. Decursing, only able to be done by Mages and druids, Poison, Shamans, Paladins, Druids, Disease Shamans, Paladins, Priests, Magic, Paladins and Priests. you had to call out in (mostly seperate class channels) who was decursing or dispelling wich group(s) those players had to make certain they were in range of the dispeller(s) (no range addons or UI were there for the most part) who did certain buffs (eg curse of shadows/elements) who was in the rotation for tranq shot, etc. For an evening of raiding, you spend 4-5 days preparing, and for the raid itself if you were unlucky enough to be the raid or classleader you often had to spend another hour or so getting the class stuff done.
People had to have certain specs, and sometimes one talentpoint different could mean a huge difference.
A lot of people comment that the fights themselves are "easier" scripted then current mechanics, but you also have to remember, that back then a lot of the now granted options for scripting weren't available, no vehicule mechanics, clickable orbs to mindcontrol, and a lot of the addons were often not working correctly so you had to sometimes rely on emotes, or spell effects for the timeings. A lot of classes didn't have aggro reduction or resets, and often even turning the boss to the raid accidentilly caused a wipe. Even with carefull planning, you had to rotate healers, device strategies for how to deal with certain bosses cause there weren't instruction video's or websites most of the time. Hots didn't stack, there was only 1 renew, 1 regrowth, 1 rejuvination possible on a target.
And you know what, i miss it. I miss the dedication required, i miss the tight knit community in the guild, and on the server. People knew you in the guild and in the server. You build up lasting friendships, and enemies from the other side after the 15th time you met someone in a battleground. People were less likely to be an ass because not only did everyone experiance the horrible gear grind. The tight knit population on a server also ment that if you were a ninja, if you harrased people etc, you would be barred from any good guild. And with no name changes, or guild transfers possible, once you had a (good or bad) reputation that used to stick.
I can't wait till classic wow returns. I just hope that Blizzard doesn't make it "current meta" with beeing able to transfer servers, name changes, cross realm battlegrounds, dungeon finders, summoning stones, gearscore For me i want it to have it the closest thing as it was back then, with maybe an OPTION to choose between wow classic graphics, or the new graphics
So you want it all back, but with a current PC.
i only managed to get to lvl40 and staleld there in vanilla
took me BC to get max lvl and enjoy some random raids 1 or 2 tiers behind the new content, still loved that time
I miss the old days when raids required more than "tank and spank" followed by "tank and off-tank and spank" followed by "stand in circle or die and tank and spank". Tanks used to have to control which direction the boss faced, shot/spell rotation were far more crucial for success as opposed to bragging rights on dps charts, and people actually had to know HOW to run cc to keep the guild from wiping. PUGS were a joke because they never used to work and world raids were a hell of alot of fun.
I do miss dragging Lord Krull to IF with my guild on random servers waiting for my main to finish a server update >:)
Oh, and I miss the days of pvp being a time consumer while waiting on your 40-man as opposed to being necessary for noobs to be able to get gear for high level raids because they can't learn how to run a raid with their class. I think that's a biggest part of the reason I quit wow
Exactly. The 'skill' in vanilla was all down to your time investment. Hell, even PvP was like this.. you were considered the absolute best pvper in the game as long as you afk'd in AV 20 hours a day and made it to rank 14, as arena wasn't in the game yet. The entirety of the vanilla experience was the insanely time consuming MMO-ness of the game, you had to grind forever to do anything. I don't see classic WoW being very successful because the current state of gaming doesn't really lend itself to these types of games anymore.. maybe the players that are currently playing insanely grindy asian MMO's will be able to handle the grind, but thats about it. The VAST majority of people that play classic will burn out before they even reach level 60 which is understandable. I just can't see Classic being the savior to WoW's existence that everyone thinks it will be.
I completely agree with you right here. I was a classic WoW baby and a Mage for my main class, altoholic so I had 1 of each to the max character slots. Using CC and fight Mechanics, not just "stand in this circle while the tank holds aggro in his sleep cause he hit 1 button at the start", was one of the main things I miss about Classic WoW. I even find in other MMOs that it has been a plague that has just killed those things in many of the good ones. For example I play FFXIV and love the game, however CC is really non-existent. In FFXIV your Dungeons and Raids consist mostly of Tank and Spank AOE Frenzy fights. Some boss battles are mechanic heavy but you are then only fighting just the boss and mechanics are more things to keep from dying. A few of the classes have some good CC abilities in FFXIV, like the Black Mage's Sleep spell which is an AOE CC, yet it's so ignored that many players seem to be more pissed off that they can't just spam their amazingly awesome AOE skill without waking the mob up, which after about 3 hits with it the diminishing returns makes it immune completely until you get out of combat and it fully resets.
I can remember being in several guilds in Vanilla WoW due to drama and the need for certain things before I could be allowed to raid in some. I had a run of bad luck in the time that I should have been running BWL due to the fact that I kept finding bad guilds that wanted me to farm things for them to go to raids with and kept insisting they'd bring me in when someone else was fully geared and wanted time off. Of course many of those guilds were really just wanting to use me to farm items for them and had no intention of letting me raid, and those that did were doing it on alts and didn't have any care as it was more a time to pull "Leroy"s and crack jokes while telling the "noobs" how good they did this raid a night or two before hand like it was easy as pie. Thankfully I got into some good guilds before BC launched and I did get to get to some Vanilla Raiding. BC was a great expansion as it didn't make too many changes and the flow was fine unless you did massive grinding to level and burn through the areas without the questlines being done.
4:28 gave me cancer, remembering having to eat in between every mob as a warrior leveling around 58
+Thomas Nilsson This is why I never got past lvl 12 as a warrior in vanilla.
It wasn't as bad as a mage, but holyfuckingshit being a warrior sucked.
+Thomas Nilsson Same man. I also valued armor > Stats cuz I was retarded.
that moment where i leveled as a lock and had the best time xD
Pizzadog Gaming I imagine so haha
+EnjoyCocaColaLight Holy hell lvl 12? I only levelled in later TBC and i recall even that took some considerable time to hit 70. *Oh and the class was hunter... ^_^
I love that everyone in this comment field is in the scale of 0.1%
Yes, however their Naxx clearance achievement has a date in 2018 :p
Vanilla didn't have achievements...
Well, common sense would tell you that 95%+ of the people looking up this video are gonna be players that actually did vanilla Naxx.
i got 5 bosses in Naxx back in classic, but since we all knew TBC where just a few months away, we decided to call it quits and some in our guild including our main tank did Runs with the best guild on out server in order to clear Naxx before TBC, which i think they did.
I didn't clear, but our guild was on the top 10 for 3 bosses. Broke up during that Raid.....LOL
Remember it wasn't just difficulty alone.
Burning Crusade was just around the corner so the gear would have just been invalidated in a month.
So many guilds just gave up an went on vacation.
This x a million
Yeah exactly. It was pointless.
I think it would have been a lot better if blizzard released bigger expansion with more time in between them. Even after they removed attainments and such only top guilds cleared end tier raids. There just want enough time for even semi hardcore raiders. I liked raid finder but then they ruined all the classes in mop so I quit.
actually most of the naxx gear was bis till you started raiding.
@@jointedlimb I get that this is 4 years ago, but people at the time didn't really know that T3 was going to take you into Kara. The only gear that had been leaked was Hellfire Peninsula and Citadel gear, like lvl 61-63 gear, and it was on-par if not better than MC gear. People knew they were going to get better gear just from hitting 70. Level cap increases hadn't become standard yet, since it was the first one we saw so no one knew what to expect. The idea of it caused a lot of burnout, a ton of people quit, a ton of guilds collapsed. The only guilds who really pushed Naxx were top tier guilds.
There was also the frustration a lot of guilds dealt with over the transition from 40 to 25 man raids. Everyone knew their guild was about to hit an awkward moment of people getting pushed out. Then there was the Paladin/Shaman conversation, who was going to reroll, and how were you going to make room for them? The transition into TBC caused a massive amount of guild drama.
My guild also fell to Naxx. Was a blast though. Ty for your time and effort. Very well done. Superb! A+
I remember My guild going into nazx back Then. We didnt even kill the 1 trash mob wich was a gagoyle. If this wanst killed fast enough it would get full Health. So we kept nuking the same Mob for like 30 mins untill we gave up and left. Brutal raid.
lol and that's not even the hardest trash. I remember the construct wing having creatures that'd wipe our guild when we tried to do echoes of war.
I know this is a little different, but my guild couldn't kill the trash in Sunwell Plateau, and this was after beating Black Temple (albeit also after the 30% raid health nerf). It was an interesting two months before Wrath.
If you couldn't kill trash your guild was trash.
DriftNick well Never Said it wasnt. We were doing MC BWL at the time. So we just wanted to try the raid.
Argent Dawn rep was nothing, I was exalted by farming Stratholme for BoE blues for alts
Bloodstainer I know dat feel :(
A lot of people did a lot of irrelevant-to-Naxx things, which is why not many were able to get there. Yes, it wasn't much of a grind, but on a raider's timetable, it was an immense diversion. That raid was only out for 7 months before BC and mastery of AQ was required before entry.
Bloodstainer Strath was so fun running this instance with a war fury tier 2
God Nuvo It was fun running it with part MC gear pre-BWL, but it didn't really make sense until they released the raid 0,5. But it was pretty funny cus I had full Valor on my Paladin as farming gear, but the tier 0,5 quest was class oriented. Shame
Bloodstainer that's bullshit. Argent dawn rep was probably the hardest faction, I farmed shitton of strat and scholo for my tier0 and played the whole vanilla since the release. when BC came out I wasnt exalted.
I have to say some of the things you are saying are misleading, I was in one of the raiding guilds in EU that cleared the place.
first of: Naxx came out late, and we had minimal time in there before TBC, so time people had in the raid to progress was very limited. (remember I do agree this was one of the hardest places I have every progressed).
2nd, gear: when naxx came out people had been farming MC/BWL for over a year, and even tho AQ40 was "relatively" new most people did not need a huge amount of gear, and most guild cleared MC/BWL very quickly at that time.
3rd consumables: I agree with you the amount of consumables needed was high, very high indeed, but a good guild would do a divide and conquer, having the dps farm the kills, and then our healers had herb alts at level 35 with 300 herbing placed where we needed to farm the most important herbs (groomsblood) the tanks would be fishing etc. that took allot of the top off.
4th Rep: everyone had been running AD rep instances for ages, there were a constant need to get to the lab to make flasks, or farm righteous orbs for crusader enchant, and Large brilliant shards etc etc. meaning most raiders at the level to enter naxx where at least revered and many of us was already exalted, making the entry requirement completely easy.
just some thoughts, please remember that I agree Naxx was a hard but amazing place. And it took a well organized guild to be naxx "worthy".
but liked the video :)
people were dividing jobs between them for the guild? That's real dedication.
Geesle many guilds had a centralized system to gather and craft all consumables for the raid. Everybody could contribute and in return got points to later bid on raid drops. That way everybody could gather what was easier for him/her or nothing at all.
I only went to Naxx one time during Vanilla then our guild ran out of time. After that our guild pretty much died in TBC because there were no longer 40 man raids
I completely agree!! We were also dividing the jobs and I agree on reputation part.. The reason we didn't do naxx was "Hey expansion will come soon, look at those green items , they are better than our tier 2,5s.. Let's stop raiding until expansion and let's make a fresh start at the expansion.." Thus ended our wow adventure.. people got bored and left the guild etc... Things got worse and worse.. Burning crusade should have come a year and a half later or something like that..
I mean you can't deny Nax was hard since he has the stats to back him up, but he did exaggerate some things that you've already covered. One thing he exaggerates is farming as Main Healer. Yeah, the gear was shit for DPS as a healer since they would only focus on healing. However, a lot of healers (at least smart ones apparently) would have a DPS off-set for when they needed to solo some things some times. Being a guild trying to conquer Nax at the time; I would be very surprised if he wasn't in a guild that had cleared MC, BWL, AQ, and Onyxia (as well as the world bosses) so many times that it was sill not common for the same gear to drop for the nth time that all the mains already had or something better; therefore allowing the non-mains access to get them for their off-sets. For example, all the main mages and warlocks already have that gear piece or something better for spell damage so let a priest get it so he can do damage when he needed to. Hell, you could also even use the spell damage gear you got from basic quests, mob drops, and dungeons at the time to use. The dungeon set gears were implied to be class-specific, but in reality anyone can use the gear (fucking Shadow Priests taking my Dreadmist gear).
You didn't have to respec to do damage for farm, that's like a super expensive cherry on top. It helps, but not needed and the money could be used better to gather resources for or the consumables themselves on the AH.
Our guild during vanilla was 1 of 2 alliance guilds that always led progression on our server. Naxx 40 changed our guild. It forced us to start looking for talent from other servers to get them to move to ours. We started questioning the skills of established old school members. It tore us apart really. I would come home from work and immediately start farming mats in preparation for the Naxx run that night. We'd go hard till 11 or 12 late at night. Rinse and repeat all week. Our progression was good and not that far behind some of the world leaders at one point. For our guild this pace was unsustainable. We made it up to and beat Sapphiron as a guild. Things fell apart afterwards. A core group from the guild joined with a core group from another guild and we eventually killed Kel'Thuzad. I think we did it a few weeks before TBC came out. I was glad some of us got to beat it after what we went through. Although I continued to play WoW until Warlords of Draenor, I never seriously raided after that. It was such a toxic experience I could never do it again. I've done some but it was usually with friends in 25 man dungeons that weren't brand new. It was fun runs with content that was known. Friends and I did PVP mostly after and had great fun. I still have my full T3 Redemption set that I use for xmog.
RIP Reign
it only took us 15 years to figure out you could just cheese all fights using world buffs and banning most classes from raid XDXD naxx is still in classic ridiculous hard with a group that doesn't know each mechanic and have protection pots+ resist gear for sapphron. not to mention damn good tanks. i couldn't imagine doing any of it 15 years ago. You were my teenage nerd dream XDXD then i got to do naxx in classic fully world buffed in a run where they checked out previous raid performances and vetted every player and it look 1h :|:|:|:| (just short) if it wasnt for players like you thought it wouldnt be possible now!
@@peterkent6250 I'm jealous
Not saying we should go back to that exactly, but there really should be some extremely hard content that you have to work towards. You can say, "well there are mythics" but that is essentially the same raid you have done 2 or 3 times over already. It is nothing new or exciting. As an old dev once said, "the world feels a whole lot bigger when there is content out there that is a bit out of reach." It gives you something to look forward to and gives you a drive to do better. No more of this 4 tiers of difficulty with gear that their only differences are is how high their stats are...there is no uniqueness left in the game.
well said
You again? Didn't expect to see a fellow peasant here,
You think you want new content. You think you do, but you don't.
One can just get boosted in Mythic later anyway. It's ridiculous.
That's so completely true.. i remember starting out as a noob in my ZG/AQ20/MC guild and even seeing a piece of naxx gear in a battleground was incredibly exciting.. the idea of doing the instance was just.. nearly mythical.. it was something you thought of as a year or so away even if your guild was amazing and starting out raiding.. i think that's the main reason people get so bored now.. if there's nothing you haven't seen after a week of an expansion being out, how couldn't you be bored?
I really really hope blizzard makes the new timewalking feature open up to old raids.
+The Universe Yeah, that would be Awesome as hell. Going back to Ulduar or ICC and face Arthas once more. Actually, i never even saw Arthas in 3.3, my Guild never made it past Sindragosa :P
+Magic Medic nowa days a fully geared ilvl 710 frost dk can solo icc and not die once
+malcolm thompson People could do that for a long time.
Nathan Casey i mean on 25 heroic
malcolm thompson I first did that at level 90. it's not that hard. Been trying to get invincible for like over a year now haha
I see alot of comments stating that Vanilla WoW was glitchy and full of elitists.. Im sorry but I played from 2004-2015 and can tell you I would rather have those glitches and elitists than the whiny self entitled half wits that are sitting in their Garrisons today.
Sure Vanilla had a tighter community, the mechanics, though not up to today's standards were hard for their time. We didn't have a crap ton of monty python stats that gave us godly amounts of life and damage. The battles actually required thinking about your next move. Damage meters meant crap. Threat meters on the other hand were mandatory. Wipes were something that happened more often than not.
Say what you want Old Naxx was a real pain in the backside for the players of the time. No dungeon or raid today offers the same level of trouble because the characters themselves are more capable. The sheer number of players that demand to see the damage meter after a fight is appalling and yet that is considered normal now in WoW. Such a lame joke.
We talk about the Elitists of yesteryear and yet arent the ones in WoD even worse? People need to get their heads on straight. Sure Vanilla was a right bitch, but it was a social game back then which is very different that the current stance of WoW today.
Player skill in vanilla is under estimated. We had less to work with and so its assumed we didnt have to figure out our classes... I will challenge that with We had less to work with so actually getting anything done was more of a challenge. We had class leads in our guilds that organized whoever was under them and we would help those coming into the raids to make sure they could be of help to the run. We didnt troll each other and criticize each other over item level. It was about the needs of the raid. Resistances being something that was a requirement for every raid, not just Naxx.
Molten Core needed Fire resist, hell the tank needed over 400 FR. .... then came Naxx with its frost resist which threw all of us on our butts. the polar opposite of all the gear we had been farming for months... it was a nightmare. Few people remember but there was no resist gear for Holy damage... That was fun also when it came to those types of adds.
How about the quests for the classes? oh yeah those aree missing now.. The hunters would get a leaf.. then would have to do some insane crap which included fighting an elite open world demon that would insta kill anyone who assisted. just so they could get the Bow that could transform into a staff... challenging and fun when I did it... yet there is nothing like that in todays WoW.
Today WoW is an MMORPG whos core audience is 12 years old. Pokemon pet fights, Lame humor, and political correctness... Where once the humans were racist, they are now buddy buddy with everyone... its a shadow of it former glory and hence why its lost more than 80% of its player base over the years.
"The humans used to be racist, now they're buddy buddy with everyone... it's a shadow of it's former glory"
Lmao right wing anyone
he's not wrong... racism was rampant when the orcs invaded and fucked everything up... sounds like today
So you want to say... You are a whiny, self-entitled bitch?
I mean that pow, that comment..
I hope vanilla players stop bitching how it was hard back then, but can't do today's content.
I have found the elitists
>assuming racism is somehow bad
The best part of vanilla was not that naxx was so hard though, it was that there were so many great things to do outside of raiding. I started pretty early on (pre battlegrounds) and i didnt hit 60 until the end of the expansion, just because leveling and meeting people out in the world was so fun.
I played a warlock back then, I was playing it because of how cool demon summoning seemed, and that undead warlock in the intro video with the infernal was boss. Turned out that warlocks could pretend to farm mana pots, lifetap themselves near to oblivion, and make the healers waste more mana pots instead. Dick move but good times.
+Eternal Odyssey
I remember doing both to be able to push the dps that was needed.
+John Bachman yep, also mine lock's telents were bugged and I have 2 min CD for Meta (instead of 3 min), so sometimes I was continuously in demon :)
+Eternal Odyssey i was a lock in those days lifetap was the bomb, but we couldnt use it in every fight, as it strained the healers and they needed to focus on the tanks. caugh patchwerk. you know what i do NOT miss about locks then, effing shards man. for bosses in Naxx i required all my warlocks to grind up tons of them.
Justin Jacobs
those friggin shards! why didnt they atleast stack like everything else :P . it was so frustrating.
if u would have been in a good raid and they saw u abuse it in raids to cheap out on money u where faster gone than you can say lifetap
as a dps warrior id fill empty slots in my bags with mana pots for the mages and healers (made me' rather popular with them too)
You are a saint...
you're the best person I ever heard of
Had the privilege of raiding this place and only saw the Instructor and Anub go down. It still gives me nightmares.
A point about debuffs: Back then there was an add-on called decursive, which auto targeted and cast whatever debuff removing spell your class had with a single button press.
A friend of mine was a holy paladin, and had a parrot that loved picking on his mouse wheel. He would bind the decursive macro to both mouse wheel directions, /follow his class leader, and let his parrot raid molten core.
Point is, one of the reasons the naxx debuffs are so excessive is that it was assumed that they would be removed more or less instantly by healers spamming their decursive macro.
With the type of game it used to be, I would imagine playing it had to be much more about the friendships and the time spent raiding, more than the loot. With the huge influx of shallow players paying millions and millions of dollars, demanding more and more loot more LOOOOT we want more STUFF, is basically what created the shallow shell of a game wow used to be. What seemed to destroy guilds, was that there was no reward for your efforts in NAXX, in the months you spend playing it, you didn't even get the boss kill, which for guilds of people who were friends who cared about each other, was a good reward to be honest, I'd be happy to see 3 of my guildies get loot, if I only got to help kill the boss and never saw loot, and that's what naxx seemed to take away from people, the tiny bit of reward you get by getting kills, even when you get no loot. That sense of shared accomplishment among you and your guild, loot be damned...those deep connections players used to have with each other, is where those rose colored glasses come from. Killing bosses was much more meaningful than winning loot back then.
This exactly. Loot was cool. before transmog, you could sit in the now ghost town of stormwind wearing gear you got from bwl or mc....and people would talk to you about it, ask how the fights were...and everyone marveled at the naxx gear even though most people wanted nothing to do with it after a few weeks trying. As crappy as that raid was, the sense of accomplishment of downing 1 boss was epic. Now, I can take a greenie and do lfr to down the boss. I like that they dumbed things down a bit, it was way too hard overall....but think they went a little too far. Funniest part...while taking a new guild during WotLK through naxx...seeing, as he said that damage didn't change....couldn't stop laughing at people getting their butts kicked and then complaining about how hard it was.
Moreso yes. Vanilla was fun and engaging. The game forces you to work with others and build a community, the whole reason of it being an MMO. The current game does away with that. I came back a couple months ago, solo played and cleared Heroic Tomb of Sargeras and quit again. I'm just not a fan of current WoW and I'm wholly looking forward to classic servers.
Well it has to have both. Some loot and some feeling of acomplishing something. From what I saw in this video it was simply not worth the effort, time and nerves. It was bullshit. Actualy and I'm very surprised people kept playing this game... well maybe I just don't care so much about games.
I think games like WoW should have "normal" diffilculty which means an average person after some training can finish it (kill final boss) and for those who want bigger challenge there should be some hard mode, but with rewards in a form of titles, achievements, maybe some cool skins, but not better items, because then it wouldn't be just for those who want bigger challenge it would be required for everyone.
But 3 loot for 40 people is stupid, they could've at least double that.
@Mike Wa - This was pretty much the heart of MMOs back when WoW first came out, and how prior MMOs such as EverQuest worked. The gameplay is there, but the social aspect was incredibly important and required if you expected to progress anywhere in the raiding scene.
Wanna hear a funny thing, I am currently getting ready with my guild to do Nax 40 on a private server, we never got to do it in retail, and while we know about the grind, we are all looking forward to it. We are fools.
How does one get to play on this private server?
Crutonz well seach "wow vanilla privat" in google... I use one of the first 3 seach hits.
Pretty much just seach for vanilla privat servers that are blizzlike (exp 1 goldrate 1)
+Niels Mulvad why dont you just give him your server and your username? Or is your story bullshit.
Koen Wijnen What makes you think I am bullshitting you? No I will not give you my name, and you can search for a server yourself. I told him pretty much which one I use, all he has to do is look for it.
you're on some bullshit dawg
The chances of this are so low but you your guild, Legio Excisio. What realm were they on? I recognize some of the names in your guild because my brother was in a guild with the same name, it was either on the Dragonmaw or Frostmane server, can't remember which. I think the guild came about from a merger of two guilds called Motion and Set in Stone?
+Knotty200 Im not sure about the history of Legio Excisio when it comes to the guild merge, but we originally started on Dragonmaw and moved to Frostmane due to it being a lot less laggy
+HamsterWheelGaming This is definitely the guild my brother was in but he went into The Dark Legion, not sure if you remember them? Think they were classed as 2nd or 3rd best horde guild on the realm, Malevolence Incarnate being number one. He actually joined MI temporarily I think and even had a stint in ISLE. Do you remember a Tauren Hunter called Wylde?
I definitely remember Malevolence Incarnate, as well as Erratic and Vindication. I think those 3 and Legio were the top raiding guilds on Frostmane back in those days. As far as the hunter name it does sound familiar, but it doesn't really ring any bells unfortunately
+HamsterWheelGaming That's it, ISLE became Erratic. The Dark Legion might have disbanded. Think he ended up in Novus Principius? You remember them?
+HamsterWheelGaming Nice video!
On Frostmane was definitely one of the top guilds at the end of vanilla, and the best horde guild throughout TBC. The guild itself was a merger of two good guilds, Inspiration and Novus Principium.
good times
I remember it being hard, until we did it again in Classic and I realised that we will were just so shit back then.
This is the comment I was looking for.
@@havoc3135 It doesn't matter. If the guy is a mythic raider now even private server stuff would be a joke to him. Back than it was hard because of lack of experience and skills just like many things in life. Still my favourite raid ever. But you develop you learn and things that were difficult are so easy now, you realise that they were easy all along, it was you that need to learn and grow.
@@havoc3135 And from what I gather the OP beat both.
In 2006 wow was played by normal people with a life for fun. in 2022 its only played by speed runners who have memorised the games source code and break the game.
I think boss fights shifted from being hard to prepare for to hard to execute. Most Naxx bosses require almost no skill to execute, as long as you do the bare minimum and come extremely prepared. In modern wow you need the gear and skill to do M bosses.
The game was logical. Resistance gear, talents, potions, everything had a meaning. It was excellent .
No it wasn't. It catered to no lifes....who spent hours grinding for mats etc.
but extremely tedious and not player friendly. a game should appeal to everyone not just hardcore
@@xpapakahn94
It's okay for certain games to cater to certain people.
Not every game has to 100% cater to every possibly playstyle or inclination.
@@SaoGage thats terrible marketing and will make way less money than if it caters towards a broader audiance. so sure its okay but business wise and logically its not
@chaos lord they created classic and now now after a few months nobody wants to play classic lol...
Having cleared Naxx 40 in classic, another thing not mentioned in the video is the amount of spell hit your tanks and priests needed. The tanks for taunt not to miss on 4 horsemen (generally a lot of guilds had a 9th tank standing by in case a taunt was missed, until the time where you had 8 warriors with t3 4 piece bonus) and the priests for Mind Control on razuvious and shackle on Gothik. Shadow priests weren't really a thing at the time so most priests didn't have any spell hit gear and almost no warrior up to that point had ever farmed spell hit gear because... well... spell hit gear on a physical damage class made no sense.
And for the preparation mages had to log in like 30 minutes prior to make food and water for everyone. Warlocks were farming soulgems for 1 hour before the raid (at least) and hunters had to buy ammo that was made by an engineer because different ammo had different damage values.
I raided back in vanilla. We started in ZG that had just came out when we started. Continued to Clear MC, Onyxia and BWL. When we started AQ 40 I was delighted to learn about KTM, the threat meter of the day. Yes in vanilla a meter that measured threat was a BIG help, so you wouldn't accidentally out aggro the tank and wipe the raid wich was a big risk, especially for horde without pally buffs. As a hunter with FD, it was less of a concern for me, but still nice. Being ranged DPS I was chosen to be one of 15 people needing to farm nature resistance gear for a fight further in. That ment farming Mauradon over and over again to get green lvl 44 cloth to replace my hunter T2 gear. Not so fun. Also needed to start farming AD rep in preparation for Naxx. Of course you still needed consumables and repair money for the boss you was currently on. At that time I figured I spent more time farming for raids in one way or another than I was actually raiding so I figured, screw this and quit.
So if I was spending more time farming for raids than actually raiding before we was halfway in AQ40, I can just imagine what Naxx must have been like. I've always been wholeheartedly again goldbuyers, but for people doing AQ40 and vanilla Naxx, I get it. I never did it myself, but unless you wanted a full time job playing this game, there was no other option. The lack of time to far and refusal to buy gold was the reason I quit. My guild went on to clear AQ40 and kill 2-3 bosses in Naxx before TBC hit. I kinda regret a little not getting to see Naxx back then, but I had other priorities in life than just work, sleep and WoW. There was not time for anything else if you was raiding AQ 40 amd Naxx back then.
The key issue with Vanilla WoW wasn't it's relative difficulty. It was the fact that to progress through Vanilla WoW Raiding you had to dedicate nearly every waking hour to it. There was no conceivable way to do all that was required to play at the top level without surrendering your entire life to it. The main focus of nearly EVERYTHING in Vanilla WoW was to make everything be as time-consuming as possible.
i was in a raiding guild that cleared everything up to and including WOTLK . our raiding schedule was 5 nights a week from mon to fry ,. weekends off. we started at 19:00 and ended at 24:00 every week day..
that's all that's needed to progress and farm raids for gear for about 80 raiders. couple of hours a couple of days in the week.
no need to no life if your guild knows what its doing.
Catnium you literally just described 25 hours a week, which is literally more than a part time job.
Not true at all.
That's where WoW originally got the stereotype for South Park episode where there's just a fat dude in his room doing nothing but playing the game and not doing anything else in life lol. Now its anything but that, everyone is spoonfed everything and given to them right away.
Sunwell came close to that number or percentage of completion, it was insane.
Naxx in Wrath was pretty easy :S.
When Sunwell came out I didnt even understand the mechanics for the dragon/human fight, I believe that was the second boss in there but by that time I wasnt even hardcord raider just a spor filler if I was needed. :)
I was only able to kill up to 4HM (Last boss my guild downed was Loatheb) so I never got to see Sapphiron or Kel'Thuzad in Vanilla. But man, what great times vanilla were. Almost nothing in gaming will ever be as exciting as the raiding experience was in vanilla for me. TBC was great too, until they did the global 30% hp nerf across everything in the game making even Kil'Jaeden a fuckin joke... But WotLK was where I ended up quitting as it got dull after doing Naxx10/25, so skipped the raids in between it and ICC and did them when I came back when ICC came out and ended up clearing that, which was ok, but not nearly as fun as I had in either vanilla or TBC. And after a few months of playing Cataclysm I decided it was time to move on as that expac is where things got even more dumbed down, which had already happened in WotLK when it came to class mechanics and it just wasn't fun anymore and I was burned out on MMO's. So that's where my WoW journey ended for good, and I'm glad it did after seeing what they did to the game, making it more and more easy and anyone who could mash their skills in a certain pattern was good. All the micro management of even tanking/healing was gone as healers could practically spam aoe heals, and every tank class could aoe tank with the utmost of ease.
I specifically remember Gothik the most, as I was a holy priest in vanilla, and I was one of the shacklers for that fight and man that shit practically gave me nightmares after the raids lol. Gothik was so chaotic as a priest that had shackle. On top of having to manage healing a tank that was taking an ass beating as everything in that fight hit extremely hard as well as shackling very specific mobs at very specific times and keeping the shackle refreshed between heals was insane as if it wasn't refreshed very, very often it could break and it would be a wipe 9/10 times. And us on shackle duty had to gimp our healing gear with DPS caster gear to get the 5%(I believe, it's been so long I forget, may have been like 2.5% or so, but that was ~10 years ago ._.) without enough +hit, the potential of missing a shackle could result in an instant wipe. And getting +hit gear as a priest was not easy as our DPS casters needed it before us so we could even progress up to that point.
But still, like I said, one of the most memorable and exciting moments I ever had gaming. And while I'll never play a game as hardcore as I played vanilla WoW, let alone another MMO in general, if I had to go back in time, I'd do it all over again.
+shadowboxin420 Thank you for your memories. I could easily relate your story, even tho I myself was quite a casual player. I mean I played a lot (3-8h a day and I was in a highschool), but didn't really get "shit" done so to speak. Hah, now that I think about it, I spent most of the time traveling around zones, ganking and farming stuff. Quite many BGs here and there, but never really thought about ranks/reputation and the items I could acquire through them, even if I had the time for the endless grind.
I raided only MC/ONY/BWL and first couple of bosses in AQ40, but never even thought about going to Naxx. I just played until I got the feeling that I've had enough, and stopped. That feeling came like every 3 to 6 months, so I took a few weeks break and always came back.
TBC times went kinda the same ways as Vanilla. Casual raiding MH and TK, but never really thought about BT/SW. I enjoyed more World PvP.
WOTLK and Cata were the expansions I never really raided anything. I dont even know what the hell I did on WOTLK. I remember doing quite a lot of arenas with my friend, but never really succeeding on it, even tho I considered us both pretty solid keyboard cowboys (meaning good skills).
I started Cata because the only thing that bothered me in WoW was the lack of arena succes. So as a shadowpriest, I recruited a shaman and a mage to my 3v3 team (which I knew was quite a good setup) and yes, it worked! I finally got to experience some success on arena. It got a lot harder past 1800MMR, so we finally had to practice different strategies and were steadily getting past 2k rating and it was fun. But this fun ended a bit too soon. I was about 22yo, and ofc was thinking more and more about real life and why am I still putting so many hours to this game. I remember looking at all the addons and shit on my screen while doing arenas and noticed that it wasn't as intuitive as it was in Vanilla. It was actually quite boring.
So the feeling of 'I've had enough' came a lot sooner than in Vanilla, and I decided to quit it for the last time. My playtime on Cata was only about 2 months.
Now, getting close to 30yo, I would/could never put in as many hours on a videogame as a highschooler could. Yet, I'm still waiting for something as big and eventful as WoW, which will highly unlikely ever happen. And this may be the reason I'd also do it all over again, if I had to back in time (apart from WOTLK and Cata tho hah :).
Haha, same with my guild!
What isn't mentioned, is that some bosses were tuned for having the raid on farm. We had to world buff to overcome the lack of gear. (Thaddius, Loatheb, Sapph, gothick and 4h regularly were world buffed for. What is world buffing you say? Break your 40 man into 8 5 mans, go through Dire Maul north. Get the buffs from the bosses. Then meet up in SW or Org, turn in head of onixya or Nefarian, head to Stranglethorn vale to get Heart of Hakkar buffs. Oh, and potions were on a 2 min timer and most players used some potion on CD. (Mana for healers, str/agi/int/crit, for dps)
He touched on server issues, but how he left unstated how bad they were. I was on a server with 3 or 4 guilds trying to clear naxx. The ENTIRE server lagged when someone pulled Thaddius. So you had to work with other guilds, and announce over 3rd party apps when you were pulling Thaddius as a kindness. If a different guild was learning Thaddius, you were better off taking the night to clear AQ40 or farming for mats, because 3-5 min of stuttering, buggy mobs and input lag.
All the guilds were world buffing. Some guilds would try to kill world buffed players on the way to naxx to grief them. It happened to us and we returned the favor by kidnapping their tanks with mind control.
I really want to experience this. It sounds amazing.
***** Go play on private servers like feenix or kronos, there you will get the full experience of the vanilla wow! simply amazing and almost bug free content! i can highly recommend it! i cleard everything but c'thun on the instant lvl 60 server - That server is pretty much dead now though..
jonas fisker I don't trust their scripts, I hear feenix is awful and they sell gear for donations. So I bet naxx is made easier or bugged somehow to make it un accurate.
Like the four horsemen are missing a mechanic as if they took WOTLK and put it in vanilla
***** You should check out Nostalrius - It's FANTASTIC! I've been playing there for about a month now. It's a true 1x XP server, which is as close to live vanilla wow was. No buying gear, no XP boosts, just grind 1-60 and start gearing up. Community is awesome and everyone on realm is friendly as there is no LFR anonymity!
Ryan Colombo too buggy though. I think rebirth has more accuracy and they won't release things before they are ready. Nost seems to throw all kinds of crap out without even testing it
***** Then you should check out Kronos, their scripting is awesome, nost is too buggy for my taste.
Blizzard admits they were learning end game raiding with vanilla and some bosses were literally impossible til nerfs were placed. Sunwell is a close 2nd
Blizz just give us the damned 1.12.1 legacy servers already, tired of low pop private servers.
Nostalrius is a terrific private server with a higher population than ANY World of Warcraft server, ever.
It reached 9k people online at one time, which no server including retail has ever been close to achieving.
BWL is being released next month and everyone's having a great time.
+propoetide I agree with this, I'd resub if they'd add in about ~20 US *1.12.1* servers and ~20 US *2.4.3* servers. I'd love to get in a good guild and do Naxx and Sunwell again.
I had a lot of fun in Vanilla and even more in BC.
Actually had kind of a hankering for original ZG and AQ20 lately too...I had a loving fondness for ZG and AQ20 even though they were baby raids. Same for Kara...
yeah... people will play it for a week then go back to normal wow. blizz wont add a vanilla server that MIGHT have succes... plus the game was retarded back then. its a miracle that it survived past vanilla.
Somewhere around 4-6 million people would disagree with you.
Plenty of private servers have proved that people will play Vanilla WoW and TBC even with horrible bugs just to play them and they will do it for long periods of time.
People would most likely bounce between the servers with multiple characters on each, because let's face it, leveling characters isn't hard.
With WoW having lost over half it's playerbase I sure as hell would be willing to bet it would pick a lot of revenue back up by embracing the old hardcore fans like myself.
+Raven1024 4 to 6 million? really? you are talking about 4 to 6 million players that are 10 years older, and dont have same patience like back then. also 4 to 6 million its a BIG exageration considering that only a few thousands actualy finnished end content. latest proof was molten core event, where ppl had a glimpse of what old raiding was about. people got their mount and never returned. trust me, nostalgia will run out in about a month, just like timewalking dungeons.
You left out probably the biggest reason as to why most people didn't clear naxx 40. Your points were valid. However missed the main reason, Time frame. Blizz released naxx 40 then announces the first ever wow expansion. You call your guild hardcore and I'm sure it was. However, most hardcore guilds who cleared BW, MC, AQ, etc were tired. You said it yourself. 40man runs take its tole. And with the release of naxx 40 and BC right around the corner most people took a break to get ready for BC since leveling greens from BC would be better than naxx40 gear. I think you missed the biggest reason of all. People just didn't wanna waste their time because when naxx40 was released Blizz basically made it outdated from day one. And that's why the completion percentage was so low....
"However, most hardcore guilds who cleared BW, MC, AQ, etc were tired. " ???? You mean players just stopped playing because suddenly a new expansion was coming out? No, we kept playing and trying to get new gear because Naxx was new and damn exciting. What are these stupid hot takes lol.
LFMAO, no. The Burning Crusade greens WERE NOT better than Naxxramas gear. How do I know? I have friends who were using their T3 gear from 60 until 70, one guy I know who had Atiesh, didn't replace that until Karazhan. The Naxxramas gear was EXTREMELY good until you were ready for Karazhan.
Can't wait until legacy servers are released! We get to do this again! :)
really? omg, ill play again whitout bullshit
Me too lol, im definitely coming back if they announce legacy vanilla servers in the Blizzcon
After Blizz shut down the biggest private vanilla server Nostalrius, they invited its leaders for a meeting in their headquarters. They sounded interested in setting something like that up. Look up the news story. IMHO it won't work, once we've grown accustomed to easy leveling, no effort raiding and auto-PUGs, would be hard for most players to go back to running till you get your first (slow) mount at 40.
for a shitload of gold
i just went lvled to 51 on kronos. took me 7,5 days played time. getting dat kodo on at lvl 40 was more so delicious.
Yes... it was... I still have nightmares about this place.
I remember having a nightmare of our GM killing a cow in Everyln forest trying to get shit so we could play in Naxx. We had to level up everyone to get anywhere close to being Naxx ready in gear
The mob SWARM between Noth and Gluth... All your guild back to a wall and a pixel soup wanting to kill you. You couldn't even aim and had to use /assist macros and trust your tanks.
The guild I was in on Doomhammer Wolf Pack; we got the first 3 down and then we didn't do Nax anymore...lol.
The first 3 bosses were the only doable and they were crazy
I am returning to Classic WoW for just the CHANCE of entering Naxx for the first time.
Same I played on original release but casually played and never did any of the raids. Max is so damn cool looking tho
I'm not even gonna attempt to do naxx I'd rather sit in goldshire and masturbate
@@DeathAndTac0s 😂😂😂
@@DeathAndTac0s lol
Same here lol !
Really hated when my bullets ran out as a hunter
feelsbadman
Everyone knows all hunters were afk autoshot back then.
I really liked it when hunters bought my bullets off the AH. I was making good money until Blizz decided hunters didn't need a pouch for ammo anymore.
Skitz yea asks mage for portal end then 4 ppl ran out to sum u back just to kill the mobs again to get back to the boss room
Skitz that happened in wrath aswell
i played vanilla but didnt raid back then, now in Panda and then WoD i started raiding srsly and honestly i am sooooo glad that its not like vanilla back then, i really cant understand why some players want those times back....
Vanilla=bring down a really hard boss with using tons of consumables 4-5 times then you get a piece of gear.
MoP,WoD=bring down an easy as hell boss 1-2 times then you get 2 piece of gear if you are lucky. When you get a piece of gear in vanilla it felt like epic, in MoP,WoD you are like: ok a piece of gear, cool. People generally like challenges in games because easy games seem to be boring. I guess you are an exeption.
Lonkor EU like i already said, i didnt raid back then. But i know how "difficult" the raiding was, no question, but there is a factor that many overlook: Time.
Of course it takes way longer if you need to equip !!40!! people with new resistances every new raid back then, with like 5 items dropps with 1 Boss and dont let me mention the shaman/paladin items that could drop for the other faction.
But like i said, lack of content, grinding and everything seemed pointless for me to farm the same mob over and over again (and it still does, i am looking at you, garrsion dailys).
That makes sense to me but i still like it.
Back then raiding had meaning... now it's just leeeeeeeroy jenkins trough mystic raids...
Primož Sever what meaning? grinding your ass of to get items with higher numbers, sorry but looking back it was just extremly boring, now you have to invest a lot less time which is just way better in my eyes.
I first came into contact with World of Warcraft on 18 feb. 2006. People that remember those vanilla days, remember how absolutely difficult it was to get attuned to raids, raid, organize and go on months on end without a piece of gear. Do you remember when getting that first ever piece of epic-equipment, months after working on your character and you would stare at it for minutes and couldn't believe your eyes? Do you remember when the high levels (back then, 60 wasn't the easiest thing to do) used to ride their 100% mounts next to you while you tried keeping up, but still felt pride in your 60% mount that you worked so hard for? Do you remember how you glanced with respect on those FEW server legends that were full epic and you wanted it BAD to get there too? Do you remember when you used to play a late night WSG and see one of those "Marshal" / "Warlord" ranked players and thought of how bad-ass they were?
But .....do you remember when the raid was foremost about experiencing the hardest depth of the world you were in and the gear was just the means to the end of seeing more of that content and not the idea of having it first hand?
Last time I played World of Warcraft was 2011 and probably never will again. I won't claim that the game is bad, I won't whine that it's easy now or so forth, but people need to understand that we old schoolers grew up in those times, where your character was a badge of pride and a monument of hard work..
my two cents.
Just found this, got hit with a bit of nostalgia. I didn't do Naxx40, I actually hit lvl 60 like a month or 2 before TBC, so I didn't have the time. What I remember though, is 2 things :
- Even in TBC, farming for consumable was a thing that still took quite a bit of time, and as a mage, I remember for longer fight having to time my potions and mana gems. I even remember for longer fights preparing every level of mana gems just to be able to last. And I feel like there was something about seeing the fight last, and seeing my gems slowly deplete and knowing that OoM was coming, but having to find ways to push on. It was a nice feeling (our first down of Lady Vashj is actually something I think I'll always remember).
- The second thing is, by late TBC, before it was removed, people started to organize Naxx40 raids, just so people could see the dungeon. And even with all our gear, our 10 level higher, our new spells, the raid was brutal (granted it was pickups, and some people didn't care about the strat). We wiped quite a few times, and some people were shocked by it. I remember getting the T3 shoulders for my mage, and was very happy about it, because even if it was nowhere neaar as the same achievement as doing it lvl 60, it was still something.
"how many guilds killed kelthuzad?" '23' - "no you're wrong, 23"
thanks man
IKR, the guy is up his own arse from the start lol.
Health level of Naxx25 equipped level 80 was hardly 35k man. 35k maybe for a tank with all the buffs. Average health for non-tank players was around 20k.
HitteHunden Wut? I would bet my left spermball that you are wrong. HP like this would be Ulduar-like.
vavra222 Yeah, this vid is pretty much BS. I remember as a Shadow Priest in Naxx 25 i had like 16k hp.
HitteHunden Absolutely not. Tanks in Naxx25 had at best 22-25 sometimes maybe a bit more...mostly Druids who were at about 27-28k. It was in Ulduar that the HP started to rise into 40-50k. By the time you finished ToC and went into ICC and geared yourself you would be at 50-55, Druids around 60-65k...and some insanely good geared could go up to 70-80k fully buffed.
***** So i was not wrong, thanks for the facts :D.
HitteHunden Around 25k-ish to be more correct. I remember it clearly since I tanked.
I came in at BC, but I remember the days of Hunters needing ammo AND mana! I admit to being glad that it became Focus instead, but I miss ammo. My level 72 Tauren Hunter still has her ammo pouch from those days. I had stopped leveling her for ages while I focused on other classes.
Anyway, huge respect to you, sir. My friend and I took our level 90s through Naxx, only to get hung up on Thaddeus. We have crap machines and that didn't help matters. But man... to have run it back in the day...
I started playing like 1,5 year before bc came out. Yeah mana and ammo i do remember that haha. I was shocked and was hard to get used too after they changed that. And it was a pain in the old days :p
lol watch the video where blizzard announces focus for hunters where everyone cheers up. what you saying about those? slaves? i guess so
I had a Dwarf Hunter back then and i loved the experience (still got 715 ammo) in my bank xD
Raven Jenkins Ammo was garbage, you had to sacrifice your bag slots for ammo.. I hate that
Solaxe S
thats how hunter are in real life. it makes sense to have ammo. Its not garbage it was the real hunter now they made some magic appearence of shots fired. How do you explain that? Meh more slots in Bag? fuck you
I used to say you don't know what patience really is before leveling your main at 60 with 1.5 fps XD
naxx 40 in vanilla (and the release of tbc which nullified the hard work) made me never want to pve again. I've still only pvpd since then.
It took my guild something like 28 hours in vanilla. I still have nightmares.
NOW I understand outrage and disappointment of people seeing better green gear drop in Hellfire Peninsula.
I started playing on TBC so I had no idea how hard it was to get that top gear. Not even close to how hard it was.
mhx47 the point is you did it when it was hard. Think of it like winning a gold medal in the 1920 Olympics. Those athletes sucked shit compared today, but they worked equally hard and were simply limited by technology. Winning the gold is still impressive, regardless if it was beaten thousands of times with the advent of scientific dieting and exercise (gear and lots of guides are analogous)
benblue3 Yes, but then first green drop from world mob or Q in Outland and... the feelings when it is better than what you fought for so long not so long ago.
Hey dude, thanks for making this video with the statistics and compares. I really liked it and enjoyed watching it :) For me personally Naxx 40 is the best raid that i did (raided everything till LK25). Also raided Naxx for 2 years on Feenix Warsong realm (cleared everything except Kel'thuzad). Even thou it's a private server i feel like i have achieved something by doing it, coz it's hard as hell. Like always keep 'em coming, big fan :)
Thanks for your comment, and I'd love to do naxx 40 on warsong but my gear on my main char only allows to tag along with MC pugs and maybe some BWL if I'm really really lucky so naxx 40 is unfortunately out of the question for me. I salute you for getting all the way up to KT, that takes some serious dedication :)
HamsterWheelGaming Great video man! I have played on feenix and their standard of quality is to low for me, don't know about you, but you should check out www.kronos-wow.com/
People are not wrong when they say these fights were mechanically easy in comparison to raids today, that is a correct statement. The problem was (as shown in this video) were the absolutely insane scale of the abilities the bosses had. For example, the locust swarm doing 1,200 damage a second when i remember my rogue maybe having close to 4k hp? That's a little harsh especially coming from a first boss. I would also disagree that most modern day bosses aren't really that hard, it just requires a bit of thinking. In whatever way they may be.. naxx 40 is probably the hardest raid WoW has ever seen.
the crazy thing about naxx is when u did it back in vanilla ur pc dispenses vanilla naxx ice cream (green color) and you have to lick it
Classic players will annihilate Naxx
-Reps farmed already
-Everyone already geared to the teeth
-Resistance sets done already
-No lag in raid
-Generally more skilled playerbase compared to 2006
All in all this video will be pretty anachronistic come that time.
Lol. Are we forgetting resistance gear must be farmed? You are severely underestimating the tuning as well.
I disagree... I found the game became much easier as the expansions came out. Also far more raid assists now compared to back then.
You're forgetting the part where Blizz announced BC and essentially a gear wipe. Why would anyone want to raid Naxx? I look forward to people clearing it day 1 when it releases on classic.
Pretty much this, Kel'Thuzad isn't difficult in terms of even normal raid content now. Naxx wasn't done because why would we? TBC was right around the corner with actually good content.
@@WarbossFraka Sure man, sure. Won't happen so easily.
@@Finecabinets1 Okay random guy. Naxx cleared week one 100%.
Of course it will be cleared week one by a few guilds. Unlike back then, you all have guides and gear lists to prepare you for it long before it even releases. Everyone will already have farmed the shit out of BWL and AQ40 for BiS of that phase in prep for Naxx. Everyone will be more than prepared gear wise, so only thing that's left is coordination and strategy which are all more than available these days with easily accessible voice comms like discord and strategies from youtube and websites.
With all those advantages, of course they'll clear it within in a week, I have no doubts about that. People these days have it a lot easier because all the work has already been done by the old players. No need to trial and error bosses and figure out how to kill them after many wipes and different scheduling of raids to try again, everything can be easily prepared Day 1.
That was a huge mistake, leading to all the number squishes and content being obsolete .
I like your video, lots of memories from vanilla in your story. :)
One thing to add about the consumables which I don't think people really are aware of today unless they really remember the details, specifically mana potions.
In vanilla (and TBC) there was no limit to one potion per combat.
So back in the day I remember healers chugging the first pot like at 80% mana and then as soon as it came of cd a minute or two later they chugged another.
Take this into account and all the wiping and trying on bosses. Now you understand that you needed lots of pots.
I remember my healer friends filled entire bags with mana potions for when we went to the harder raids. :)
YOUR PFP SCARED THE SHIT OUT OF ME
I loved Naxx, but the biggest problem was really the timing. Most raiders started dropping off not seeing a point in spending 4 hours a day raiding a place knowing the gear would be 100% obsolete in a couple months.
How much did you pay google to make this appear as recommended on every single video I watch?
Bobtehnerd 400,000 dollars, 3 bus tokens, 2 coupons for a free meal at Wendy's and a Jim Carrey movie 3-pack (still in the original plastic)
HamsterWheelGaming lmfao
HamsterWheelGaming Do you still have that PC-case and would you please share the brand and name? I'm looking for a new one and that sidedoor looks very convenient.
I'm guessing you mean the Corsair Graphite 760t?
HamsterWheelGaming Yes, that's the one. Thanks for the fast answer :)
The people who cry about WoW being ruined by casuals, putting BC and vanilla on a pedestal as the pinnacle of raiding, often seem to confuse many things for difficulty. Long attunement quests, blizz screwing up the balance of the fights (as they often did back then), gameplay issues that WoW had at that time, and other issues like stacking resist gear or trying to get 40 people to do what they're supposed to don't mean the raid was difficult. It just means the content was broken and inaccessible, and your 40-man group had people that can't follow directions. It also just seemed harder because everything was new at that point, and there were no "seasoned" raiders like there are now.
If you really think that 40-man naxx was harder than, say, mythic BRF is now...you're not referring to the actual fights themselves. You're referring to all the barriers blizz used to put down to make it hard to get to do the content, not the content itself.
Just because it's easier to actually get the chance to try raiding content now than it was in the old days, doesn't mean the raids themselves are easier.
People who say this kind of stuff simply miss the feeling of superiority that came from knowing you were one of a relatively small group of people who got to do something. They are now disillusioned, because once all the pain in the ass barriers that kept people from doing the content were removed...suddenly it becomes clear that pretty much anyone can do the stuff that these people thought they were so skilled for accomplishing before.
Also...I'd bet my next paycheck that 99% of the people complaining about lack of difficulty these days don't have a mythic kill on Imperator or Blackhand. Quit farting around your garrison and go down these bosses that you keep saying are a joke.
The Metal One the problem is that there is no tiered raiding. Ever since BRF came out, NOBODY does highmaul. When SOO came out, NOBODY did TOT.. back in the day, my guild was on c'thun for months and we still cleared all of MC every week, and BWL. They need to bring back tiered raiding instead of this bullshit "do the same raid 4 times a week on different difficulties, it's fun!"
People aren't referring to gating making the raids difficult, they are referring to 40 people vs 20 people, and inexperienced players vs players that have been raiding in this game for 10 years... Bosses ARE mechanically harder now, but player skill + toolkit has increased vastly.
Same with BC/Wrath.. when we were working on BT, we still did all of Hyjal(AND TK). Wrath we were working on Ulduar and still clearing naxx 25.. it's boring as fuck doing the same raid every time you want to raid.. this game is so simplified now that it is literally disgusting.
Michael Myers Vanilla: You need to raid MC BWL and AQ40. Even if you are geared for Naxx.
BC: You need to raid Kara and climb your way up like in Vanilla. Not to mention: Heroics ... hard as fuck. And even with Guilds raiding Hyjal: they still did Kara for farm runs.
WotlK: TOC negated the need for Naxx and HoR,PoS and SF negated the need for Ulduar. Altho the Legendary hammer in U25 was neat. Also: Naxx gave a shitload of Crystalls. Not to mention the Weekly. Still: you NEEDED to do TOK both 10 and 25 on non hero and hero to get to LK. And LK to get to Rub.
It gradually got worse in Cata and MOP.
Bass-D C isnt that pretty much what I was saying?
Michael Myers
just clarified how it went downhill from WotlK on.
And to clearify how Vanilla was similar to BC attunement wise.
I feel you WOW raiding was/is such a combination of fun and hope disappointment.
It does strengthen relationships until it's too many fails.
As long as there's progress it's possible to move on but when you're stalled on a boss for too long it becomes difficult to motivate the whole team to give 100%
Some might enter the raid without farming flasks etc and hope to be carried.
My guild used to include a gold charge for people turning up without requisite mats or flasks.
This was WOTLK so I have no idea how much harder it would have been back then.
I started WOW just before BC.
A group of 5 of us doddled up to lvl100 over years.
We played in the same group every wednesday Night. (Hunter, Rogue, Paladin, Priest, Warrior)
We always lacked a mage for AOE.
It was fun times though.
We managed about 8 years with the full group then we dropped to 4 and then 3.
Wotlk was the highlight beacuse we all joined the same rading guild and raided together.
That was fun.
And a big commitment even then.
Loving WOW classic.
Great videos.
Luv and Peace.
@7:45 Ulduar bear health vs undergeared mage. 3.7k-3.9k and 24k-26k would be a much more realistic comparison considering naxx was the first raid of wrath and the last tier of classic. but your point stands, the damage was nearly the same despite the differences in gear, level, and what not. Kinda like loot from molten core, zul'gurub, and AQ40. almost the same.
A lot of the stuff mentioned seem more unfair or needlessly difficult rather than actually hard.
Harald Schmid that's one of the things, people who defended the bad game design seem to confuse dedication to tedious farming with being difficult... ironically I think this is the reason why City players call Mythic Raiders today no lifers, even if they only play 6 to 9 hours a week
There was no real fine tuning either, they basically said fuck it because BC was so close.
I'm sure the respec cost was 50g at cap. Might be wrong but that's what I remember.
But damn I loved vanilla wow and TBC. Nothing beat the feeling of a guild first kill. The screaming and frantic whooping and all huddling up for a screenshot next to the downed boss. I do feel the LFR and the fact that the logistics of raiding being made so easy has completely ruined raiding for me.
I think when people say they miss vanilla wow, it's important to note that it was really a different game and it was played VERY differently. The social aspect was far stronger. Mechanically it was far weaker than todays game but I don't think the trade off was worth it. It doesn't feel like an MMO any more. It feels like a glorified lobby where you run around tapping jump outside the AH until your screen goes "DUM DUM DUUUUM!" and whisks you away to some raid with a bunch of whingy tossers you never met before."
+Fangle Spangle That's what it's become. The current state of WoW can be pretty much a single player game, if so chosen. It's perfect for people like me, who have a lot less time (and willpower) to allot to the game but still want to feel like they've got some form of power in the game. What was sacrificed to achieve that though was substance, which is what kept me in the game for all these years. WoD was the final nail in the coffin for hardcore players, and I'm happy to say I'm on Nostralius now. I used to tell myself the glory days were in the past and my WoW is dead.
Not anymore. ;')
+Cort Vermin It was definitely a 50g max. It did go up over time but i'm 110% certain it was a 50g cap.
+RPDSurvivor uh oh... how've you been since nostalrius was shit down? think you'll come back again? :)
+Sean Bent I just found it Nos was shut down. I'm going to Excalibur now.
+Fangle Spangle heh 50g was crazy expensive, even later in TBC it was still quite a lot if you, there was no Dual Spec even. I remember doing all dungeons in Vanilla and TBC as Fury Warrior with friend 2 Mages for sheeps and 2 Healers so I could stay alive without Prot :) Was actually really good Setup Warrior (Fury), 2x Mage, Holy Priest, Holy Paladin :)
Coming back to this video after the release of classic is hilarious. I can't wait to see naxx destroyed utterly in classic. Esp since i remember people saying you needed full fire resist sets for ragnaros and they cleared it not only without fire resist gear but without even being fully level capped.
You remember people saying something about MC? Probably cause basically all of the population of WoW only ever tried MC. No one ever actually said MC was remotely challenging. And they had FR buffs from the mobs outside in BRM and pots, so...
@@jynxycats >And they had FR buffs from the mobs
That's not what he said. People were saying you actually needed fire resist sets and stacks of consumables and shit, which is obviously false
If we could enter Naxx now, I have a feeling good guilds could clear right now in phase 1.
@@jynxycats Plenty of people think MC was challenging, just go look at mmochampion and all the people that thought it was going to take months for anybody to clear it lol.
Vanilla Classic is broken by the World Buff, and the guild that spam old content since 10 years on private servers retail noob
I cleared Nax worldfirst (Nihilum telefon ud warrior with thunderfury) and about all those resistance gear, what is he talking about ? We used frost gear for Saph yeah but all the other stuff ? Only other res gear i had was nature for some AQ40 stuff but nothing in Nax. And looking back to Nax, i agree it was very hardcore...i loved it that way. I belive there were some gear checks that contributed to why it took so long to clear. For example the four horsemen, was VERY VERY hard if you didnt have 6+ tanks with i think it was 4 piece tier3 dreadnaught right ? it gave unresistable taunt or something like that witch was more or less mandatory for that fight and to get 4piece on all those tanks took quite awhile in it self. Then there were some bosses with pretty deep (at that time) mechanics that took awhile to figure out while not having BIS gear. Gothik was pretty easy WHEN you had top dps gear, but without it you EASELY got overwhelmed. I loved my time in Nax, tbh in my 20year+ gaming experience this was the most fun i ever had in gaming. I honestly didnt remember lag or fps issues at all. Maybe once or twice at Thaddius but it wasnt that bad to me. WoW died to me when raids stopped beeing like NAX40, top guilds clearing the raids in like 1-2 weeks and shit. I loved how highly tuned stuff was back then...except for when it was delibirate cockblocks like CTHUN. Lovely video tho, brought back some found memories :)
1:37 - Before I continue the video, let me just say...so what? People have a sense of entitlement these days and that's why raids like this will never exist anymore. The casuals have ruined the game because they did not want hardcore players to have something special.
Still to this day people demand that Vampiric Batling from the Karazhan event to be put on the BMAH. It's the sense of entitlement people have. If you weren't playing when the batling was out, or you weren't good enough to clear to Tendris then suck it up and accept it.
+Adam Arzo Oh, stop your complaining. The game sucked since BC.
Imo vanilla was great but BC was the best and balanced compared up to now
yes!!!
the world pvp was fire in outlands
bc was just vanilla made even better.
As a healer, BC was a blessing!
Great review, I remember this. My guild was working on Sapphiron when BC was released. So close yet so far away.
Respect 🫡
My DKP deficit was so bad after my guild helped me build my thunderfury that I dropped from main tank to 3rd tank and went into Naxx with pretty much only might.
It's funny how everyone keep talking bad in the comments about Vanilla.. Yet we have 7000 active players on Nostalrius begins a private server.. People unsubscripted their retail, to play on this server, and GOSH... this is fucking real MMORPG. Yea it's a grind, but level is fun, community is great. Outdoor pvp everywhere. People grouping to do quests. Wherever you go, there's people on the same quest as you. Also, it wasn't just a grind in 1 instance to get everyone geared... people farmed loot from ZG, AQ20, MC and BWL all zones had some BiS gear for each class, so it wasn't just a grind in 1 instance, to go on for next high end instance.
When i search on blizzards forums, i start to feel they are threatened by this Private server.. Most of their posts has been deleted when they contain "Nostalrius". Also on Twitch.tv Many players streaming this server got their account banned, on request by blizzard. It had incredible amount of viewers this game.
I'm amazed why blizzard fight it so much, instead of just creating their own vanilla - tbc - wrath servers. They have the patches in archives. and empty servers. If they are afraid of not selling new retail copies, just only enable this servers for people only with latest expansion copy so they still sell new copies.
Its strange how you can choose to play Diablo 2, or Diablo 2 LoD. but you can't choose to play vanilla, tbc, wrath but only WoD
Nostalrius is an epic server, get 2-3-4 mates on skype, start level'ing and ENJOY. game is not forgiving, and even level'ing can be difficult! HF everyone!
Edit: up to 7000 online at the same time in peak hours.... probably 10-12.000 active's - Point being... Blizzard.. Let people play the game they desire!
Morten Fønsskov Compared to the millions on the actual severs.....ya I bet they want your version :)
Izzy Games the millions on the live servers, dont have any other option, so ofc that is the most represented side. I'm happy with Nostalrius and what that server gives to me, and there's no need to disguss this any further, because you will never believe there's a market for vanilla servers/ tbc on retail, until the day blizzard makes them and you see it with your own eyes :)
Morten Fønsskov
Never said there wasn't a market. I just said that if people prefered vanilla they would go to the FREE vanilla server rather than pay for the service they apparently don't want.
I know there's a small niche market for old servers. I played on TBC servers for a while. Loved TBC.
Morten Fønsskov yes and 9 milion on retail
This brings back memories. Our guild cleared up to and including 4HM, then two of our fully geared tanks decided to take a break (which is quite understandable) and we were done. Still our time raiding Naxxramas is one of the most painful, yet enjoyable experiences of my life and something I will always reminisce about. The feeling of downing a new boss in spite of immense adversity and listening to 39 other people screaming in absolute exhilaration....that was something special.
Respawning trash is one thing I hated from vanilla and BC. Way too much of a toll on the average player if you ask me... wasn't fun and it made learning certain bosses cause many people to just drop raiding altogether over time.
Yea raiding isn't supposed to be for casual players. There's plenty of stuff to do for casuals, which is evident by the large player base that just didn't raid, raiding used to be reserved for those who were willing to put in the time and effort.
In that way Vanilla was a game for everyone and felt rewarding for all. Once TBC came out and pretty much anyone could raid, it really defeated the purpose of being a dedicated raider, or even a dedicated pvper. The bar was lowered and diluted the accomplishments of those end game raiders. Saying you cleared a certain raid lost a lot of meaning once everyone was doing it lol.
Dante I am not sure why you really mentioned BC raiding being a time where it was more accessible, because most raiding guilds never got out of tier4 raiding due to tier5 being so difficult. The most anyone did was kill VR in TK, but couldn't down anything else, let alone get through that hydross wall in SSC. And thanks to this, the same guilds were also incapable of getting into BC/hyjal due to the gear requirements; catch up mechanics let you have a chance at ditching guilds and hopping over if they were needing your class badly, but other than that I am not sure I agree with you.
BC raiding was far more difficult than vanilla raiding. The only reason most guilds never got through BWL in vanilla was due to MC/ony remaining relevant for the entirety of vanilla, even if you were in naxx. The time required was all that separated players, and imo it was an unreasonable time differential.
I never made it into naxx40 myself, but I did clear AQ40.. and that alone required a 4 day raiding schedule at 4 hours each day. The reason? AQ40 trash was harder/more time consuming that most of the frickin boss fights in the place. That stretch leading up to the twin emperors was hellish, and if your raid wiped then the run back took 15 minutes. That isn't skill based, it isn't good design, and it simply meant that people like myself who was able to play 6-8 hours a day got to experience more content in vanilla than someone who played 3-4 hours a day.
BC reduced the trash grind, but drastically upped the boss difficulty. This now gated players who were unskilled rather than unable to play 6+ hours a day. Dedicated raiders had t5-t6. Casual raiders had tier 4+catch up gear until wrath hit... if they even raided to begin with thanks to all of the attunement chains.
My father claims to have cleared Nax. He was in the top guild on Dalaran server. He divorced in 2003 and did nothing, but drink and play WoW with his work buddies on the weekends and played during the week as well. He played a frost mage. Is there a way to prove it?
Blizz should do something like Timewalking Raids and showing ppl nowadays the cruelty of vanilla, no nerfs, give the newest players a way to experience of those things
Dhag Did a timewalker last night. I think it was an IceCrown raid
Coincidentally, they made Season of Mastery a few years ago. That was all pre-nerf and even "hey let's be assholes and make these fight harder." for all bosses from ZG/MC to Naxxramas. Garr for example sent out Stone Elementals to suicide into players in Molten Core, C'Thun did his Nature Beam to all players.
Think it was just a logistical nightmare, and seemed to narrow down the number of people for the sake of it on some level as many of the issues were routed in being too time-consuming for a vast number of players.
Besides that, there's also a very narrow pool of players with the contacts to be able to facilitate this kind of raid - i.e. having finding a steady, regular raiding party of 40 every week for several raids would've been impossible for a lot of otherwise capable players.
Same here, only cleared a handful of bosses. Looking forward to shattering my face again in Classic WoW :D
Shoutout to my bros on Scarlet Crusade RP server. I remember seeing the corrupted ashbringer on a Tauren Warrior and thought it could literally cleave the alliance in two.
Hearing theses numbers actually makes me slightly proud that our super casual fun guild back in the days managed to clear spider wing (easiest obviously) and Razuvious. I seem to remember that we tried some of the further bosses like Patchwork or Noth, but didn't quite make it before the release of BC. Also I feel you pain about being a healer back then. As a dedicated holy priest (and Tank group 1 main healer) I did quite a bit of farming for potions and food. Even levelling cooking, fishing and your profession (Alchemy in my case) was a task in itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's bad that so many things have gotten easier lately. I think many activities in vanilla were innecessarily tedious, but that is just the way it is whn a game develops over such a long time and I look back fondly at these days. :)
thats why Vanilla raids were never even hard. "super casual fun guilds" never even made it past Sunwell Plateau first boss
I remember hearing horror stories about original Naxx, even in BC. There were full 40-player raids of level 70s who wiped. Repeatedly.
Haha! I remember I would take PUGS into AQ40, at level 80, full 40 man raids and they would refuse to listen to me on Twins and Cthun and we would wipe over and over, I CANNOT WAIT for Classic servers, I'm just worried that Blizz is going to nerf or ruin something after someone cries about lvl 1 Dodge twinks
Why would anyone do Naxx after BC? Level 60-64 gear in BC nullified most tier 1 and tier 2.
No matter how fancy blizzard gets with modern day boss mechanics, nothing will ever top the difficulty of running Thaddius with 40 players all on mid 2000s internet connections.
The real Mythic difficulty right there.
I was exalted because Plaguelands were one of the only places to farm for shards as a level 60 lock. Naxx was tough I was lucky enough to kill KT before wrath. The worst part was nothing in Naxx gave soul shards and everyone needed a healthstone for lothab. Back then you needed to make and hand them out one at a time. That was after summoning the raid one by one (which cost a soul stone for each summon. So I never had any bag space.
Average gear in wrath was not 40K. Especially during the first raid. lol
+Abendschein True. It was closer to 20K or 25K.
He's also off on a few other things.Rag took 159 days to down. . .
+Abendschein ye
+Jordan Shank
What the hell are you both and the guy who made this video smoking? At the end of the expansion, with the 30% HP buff, a 25 man ICC geared tank might be sitting around 50k, but clothies in Naxx were sitting around 10-12k HP. When Blizz put out the patch for Cata, they got rid of stats, redistributing a lot of that stat weight on gear to stam and boosted the base HP for each class. I remember gaining 10k HP over night in ICC from that patch and it made the raid a cake walk. And not to mention Blizz has consistently buffed HP since Cata. What you had at lvl 80 while leveling in MoP, when this video was released, wasn't anything near what HP was back then.
The reason lvl 80 Naxx was so damn easy compared to the 40 man version has little to do with damage dealt and everything to do with the evolution of the game. The mechanics had been around for years by that point and were in 5 man dungeons. People knew what they were doing. There was 40 people in the raid back then, causing lag, and encounters were balanced around only 25 of those players being decent. Then there was the attunement and gear needed to get into the raid, meaning once someone met the requirements, they bounced to a guild on Naxx. And it wasn't that the gear was so insanely good, it was that 40 man bosses dropped only about 1 or 2 pieces of loot, 3 if you were lucky back then for a 40 man raid.
I can't take what this video says seriously when the dude makes such a moronic error as to say clothies had 35k HP (and he was supposedly there) when bosses were doing less than 2k a tick with a dot. Not that Naxx was hard, but if it was tuned like this dude remembers, it'd have been a 5 man or soloable back then.
Kamikakushi Translations Uh.
Honestly, I wish they still had attunement quests.
Business Cat they do
I like how he talks about how hard healers had it. Tanks had it WAAAAY worse back then. Dodge, parry, block, dodge, parry, block. If you had too much of one stat over another youd hit diminishing returns and would be instantly killed because even trash mobs did enough dmg to one shot the tank if he wasnt perfectly itemized, and you couldn't transmute stats on your gear, you had to farm the same boss for weeks to get the right piece of gear that had the dodge parry or block you were missing to get your percentages just right. Tanks also used to do no damage because defense stats took the place of offensive ones like crit so it was a nightmare farming those pots having to drop all your CDs on every monster just to kill it..... Ugh. Tanks didnt have aoe taunts so threat control was a nightmare. No aoe that a tank could produce hit more than 3 things at one time, so even trash mobs couldn't be killed without cc of some kind because there was no way to maintain threat on even 4 monsters, and it's ALWAYS the tanks fault if threat isn't maintained...... Kids these days do not understand pain.
While aoe-tanking was for sure way harder back then compared to live, the tank actually was responsible for specifiying the kill-order (marking mobs) and pulling the mobs to a zone where players were able to CC certain mobs and then focus on the skull. Besides that, warrior tanks could generate threat by spamming battleshout or demo-shout. The former produced like 50 or 55 thread per affected player while the latter one produced a bit less per mob. Considering that most of the time you'd be given like 3-5 seconds to get aggro before DD's kicked in and an average DD dealt like 200-300 DPS, you should've only lost attention if you'd either got CC'd or the DD didn't focus the skull. Usually keeping shield slam, revenge and sunder up on the main target should have kept that mob for a little time on you so you could use battleshout to generate ae-threat and then start working on the second target and intersperse battle and demoshouts.
Tab sunder tab sunder tab sunder tab sunder tab sunder tab sunder
I've never heard of diminishing returns on defensive abilities such as dodge and parry before. I thought you were trolling, but it seems you're right. Very interesting.
Was this removed in TBC? I'm specifically asking because I recall seeing rogue tanks on at least the Gruul fight (mostly dodging the attacks). I assume there were no issues with diminishing returns for those instances.
Hamsterwheel, love this video. But curious if you could do a video comparing the difficulty you cover in this vid, and your actual experience in taking down KT recently. Was it truly as hard currently as it was back in the day that you make light of in this vid?
Totally tru! We could manage only like 6-7 bosses then TBC kicked in and we moved on. Killed KT first time only in TBC.
"i was in one of the top raiding guilds" is what I've heard from so many WoW players.
*0.1% Also, it is a good thing that more people experience content. 0.1% of the population should never happen again.
+Mandalore1985 In the UK they use a comma in place of a period for decimals. They replace commas with periods in the case of four-digit numbers.
+GodKiller97 actually in the rest of the world, not only UK
+m4rk90me I'm not going to speak for the rest of the world because I don't know what the rest of the world does. I can only imagine that because of America's diplomacy and social influence, there are probably other countries that have adopted the Webster style of American English simply because of other countries having their own reforms after the British Empire fell and after America became what is arguably the world' most influential country.
But that's my speculation. I've seen non-American TH-camrs use American style English in annotations for their videos or when they speak (Lindybeig?), but how common it is I can't say for certain. British English could definitely be more common (and their arithmetic standard), but again, I'm not going to take a definite stance other than I know SOME people outside of America do it this way.
+GodKiller97 good research
+GodKiller97 We use a period for decimals in the UK, the comma is only for larger numbers.
There are also a number of inaccuracies in this video. Properly geared clothies had way more than 4000 hp. I did naxxramas in a mix of mostly dungeon blues, some pvp gear, some tier 1 gear and benediction (epic priest weapon). This gave me slightly over 4000 hp; I remember this since you needed 4000 hp to survive Anubarak's impale. I assume actual tier 2 gear/tier 2.5 gear would grant up to 4500-5000 hp for clothies. By the time naxx was released, there were a number of reforms going that started adding things like spelldamage to dungeon blues and pvp gear (even the blue pvp gear, which was decently attainable), which made it easier to get into those dungeons without actually needing to get full tier1/full tier 2. And then there were completely broken addons like Heart which allowed you to heal better than an AI; if you used that addon, you basically outhealed everyone regardless of gear.
We never got past horsemen :( I still wear my crypstalker transmog sans legs/chestpiece even through BC it was hard to go back and do nax lol
When I was a kid, we never got past Patchwerk.
Not once.
Him and that fucking Red Dragon in Blackrock still give me PTSD. SO damn hard.
As an answer to the video: Yes. Yes and fucking yes. Only people who didn't play Vanilla, or those who doesn't like WoW nor Vanilla for its skill requirement and endurance, would say otherwise. It was obviously extremely hard compared to WoW later and nowadays, which is pure faceroll.
You were forced to farm consumables, you couldn't get away with having the best gear possible, AD rep was hard to acquire, keys, sick four horsemen fight (insane), so on. It was clearly the best days of WoW.
Pagnah vanilla sucked
@omensoffate You either started in MoP or you're a victim of the skill requirement and endurance in Vanilla. What we do know for sure is that you're unintelligent, judging from that short and meaningless post.
@omensoffate Nice argument, mongloid. Another victim of complex and difficult gameplay, I imagine. Either that or you haven't even played it. Pathetic, lul.
Started in late TBC, didn't raid until WotLK Naxx, but the leveling sucked ass and from what I've seen the raiding was just a test of how much shit you can eat rather than how actually skilled you are. Classic WoW was a bad game.
Complex gameplay Vanilla... Omg...
My guild was near end of bwl and entry aq40 during this period, lots of the issues were compensated for by simply having a good guild.
You weren't some random member you put in an application form to the guild and went through try outs.
Getting attuned (usually gained by running guild alts or speed runs in general) wasn't bad.
Enchaters Mats typically provided by guild as Mc, bwl, aq 20 and zg were on farm status and cheaper then outright buying them.
And having multiple high level alts for farming mats was very common as dual specs as pointed out were far to pricey.