When you mentioned do musicians and bands travel with all their Gear on the bus as a central London bus driver I can vouch for the fact that yes they do. I observed from my drivers cab the most popular amp type for single musicians was a Peavey Classic 30 Watt combo and less often a Fender hot rod usually dragged along with some kind of trolley with wheels and once I remember picking up a lone female who's quite young probably around early 20s with a guitar strapped to her back and a Fender hot rod deluxe strapped around a modified shopping trolley trying to get this heavy anp onto the bus I had to get out of my cab and help her pull it on board. There was one particular occasion that I will never forget about 10 years ago when I pulled up in my number 43 bus outside Holloway Road tube station and there was a full band of young men with all their Gear stacked up 6 ft high by about 12 feet and 4 feet deep and I remember thinking to myself oh they must be waiting for their roadies with the van to move all their Gear to wherever they going. But no suddenly one guy with a guitar case came on showed his pass and said hang on Driver while we get our Gear on and they proceeded to load the bus with guitar amps speaker cabinets bass speaker cabinets and full drumset stands and God knows what in other cases. It took them about 10 minutes to load everything on I didn't say anything I was just thinking yes this is rock and roll. I drive down Holloway Road three or four stops to Highbury Corner outside a venue called the garage when they unloaded all their Gear which took another 10 minutes I waited patiently filled with admiration and envious that I didn't have a rock and roll style lifestyle. I don't know who this young band were but I hope they were successful as they deserved it if any of them or watching your show tell them I was the driver that took them from Holloway Road tube station to Highbury Corner on my bus it made my bus about half an hour late by the time I reach my destination my controller called me up and asked me why I was so late all I could say was Rock and Roll loading he didn't reply he just cut off his call. big fan of the show thanks Gio.
Worst video yet. 😆I’ve been suppressing the desire for a 4x12 for 45 years. Now the fuse is lit. I had a VHT with 2x12 combo. I don’t miss it. I bought a V30 head 2 weeks ago now I don’t know what I want for it. 1x12?, 2x12, 4x12? And 2 wet amps, 1 dry amp, 3 quad boxes... oh my aching back! And I’ll have to issue ear plugs to the family and neighbours.! Glad you guys touched on open back vs closed back. I wanted a Musicman with 2x10 for a long time. What difference would 10s make? I’ve had a Mesa Boogie caliber 22 for nearly 30 years. 1x12. I don’t think I ever ran it above 3/3 without foh guy telling me to turn it down. Channel mix up I guess😂 watching out for drop bears in Oz.
Great idea Jukka- it would be really interesting to get a guy in here to discuss amp wattage/ cab size who is both a live sound pro and an experienced studio engineer- to discuss what actually works best in these very different worlds.
Noise boy & guitar player here. In brief, I'd like all of the sources on stage to be about as loud as a [good] singer. I.e. shout as loud as you can: that's how loud I want your amp (and that's probably louder than you think - I've probably asked people to turn UP as often as DOWN). This allows me to get a useful amount of gain before feedback on the guitar mics without the backline spoiling everything else. Same goes for everything else, not just guitars. If that's not loud/clear enough for you, I'll give you as much as you want in the monitors (which are typically NOT pointing down everyone else's vocal mics). Something I've never heard mentioned on TPS or anywhere else is the directivity of guitar cabinets. As we all know from the endless discussion of mic placement, they sound wildly different depending on the angle from which they're heard. As a FoH guy, I'm trying to make it sound the same (preferably 'good') everywhere. PA 'speakers are designed to do this, whereas that death star laser beam of a guitar cab you've got on stage isn't. If it sounds great right in front of the guitar player, it'll sound dull on the other side of the stage. If it sounds good over there, chances are people are having their hair parted in front of the guitarist. Volume on its own isn't necessarily the enemy; it's the fact it's REALLY loud in one direction. In the past, where I've had guitar players with amps which have needed to be driven a little harder, we've pointed the cab backwards, or across the stage. The player can still hear properly via their monitors and it enables us to run the amp hotter without hurting the audience. The natural extension of this is isolation cabinets as used (to great effect) by an increasing number of touring bands. In very small venues where the PA is really only doing vocals and monitors might be just a dream, quieter really is better. I remember walking into a pub once and hearing a blues/rock band playing. It wasn't until I got to the bar that I realised that they were in the same room and this was the best 'pub' sound I'd ever heard. The drummer was on an electric kit, the guitar player was on a Kemper and the bass player was just DI'd. Drummer used headphones; the other two had 8" wedges and the PA was a pair of self-powered 12"s. Perfect! Speaking of drummers and to answer the direct question: we don't tend to ask the drummer to turn down because we're not fond of wasting our breath. They can't turn down an acoustic kit and asking a drummer to play softly in soundcheck is going to lead to one thing only: a rubbish gig when they start playing normally again and nothing else is loud enough. There's also an element of the fact that a guitar, as a melodic instrument with an almost identical range to a human, is far more capable of drowning out a vocal than a percussive snare drum, no matter how loud the latter might be.
@@epondlife if more players and sound guys approached running live sound like you do, we would all be a lot happier and sound a lot better. Thanks for the clear breakdown.
Show idea: Lots of pedal companies were started by people who started by modding other pedals. How about revisiting these pedals and a show with only modded pedals. Keeley blues driver mod, JHS modded rat and so on and so on. Just a thought. Some of these pedals have turned into there own thing all together and it would be a chance for Dan to go off on some major tangents on the technical bits. Lol. Regardless if this is a usable thought for you, keep doing what you are doing. Thanks for doing what you do.
I think most gigging musicians have encountered that problem (happened to me too) and there's nothing more depressing when you're on stage and can't hear yourself :(
I love the sound engineers that pan 2 guitarists almost full left right on large gigs. Half of the people hear only one guitar player, brilliant. You can choose what you want to hear, based on where you stand...
I have tried watching this at work. Today everybody needs something from me. It has taken nearly 90 minutes to listen to 20 minutes. Love the videos. My job sucks.
There is one thing I find interesting when switching speaker cabinets, is the change in tone. At first, its really noticeable. But after just a few seconds, its no big deal.
I honestly think a lot of people underestimate the effect of cabinet size. I have a couple of 1x12 combos and the “bigger” ones sound bigger even on the same wattage. The 4x12 cabinet has A LOT of space for the air and the sound to resonate... Awesome job guys, as always!
I know this is probably anathema... but I use the amp legs on my Super Reverb. It aims the sound of the amp at me and away from the sound man’s ears. I get more perceived volume on stage without being asked to turn down because my amp volume is dispersed by the ceiling. Also, I can hear the true EQ of my tone. My amp is mic’d as well. Great Show.
Those legs are there for a good reason and they are very effective.I have no clue why so many folks just don’t use them or even take them off.Very good point though and I just love use of anathema to describe it...well played.
@@74doomtrooper - Using amp stands or legs should be the law. So many shows I've done sound at where the guitarist claimed he couldn't hear himself well, while my head (and everyone else's) is being torn off. The reason a lot of players won't use them is because they don't like the sound when the speaker is pointed at their head. They prefer the mellower indirect sound. ...and I'm like, "Duh... if you don't like the sound of the cab pointed at your head, how do you think your audience feels about it?"
Marc Cote Exactly...I agree.You would think that it would be obvious! I like to here my “actual” sound...the board and mic’s can handle the rest.I also preach a type of anathema myself maybe even borderline sacrilege for a guitar player...spend more money on a good PA system and at most normal gigs...the folks out front will love you for it.
Coming from the world of bass guitar, the 1x12 should have more bass if you put it on the floor. Low end is very dependent on positioning in the room and how well it can conduct thru surfaces. would be interesting to demo this if you guys do a follow up!
People are too concerned with showcasing their skills as a music produce that to give an honest review of what the 99% of us out there will actually hear at home with our guitar, cable and amp and without $10,000 worth of equipment connected to it.
Andy Lord I get it. My mom would say when I was growing up “you don’t need new sneakers or whatever, jeans you want them”. And that’s why I had very few material things growing up. But as soon as I was making my own money the gear addiction started very slowly. After I got better I wanted actual guitars and amps that were useable. Then it got out of control. Pedal addiction, dirt pedals mainly kicked in thx to utube. Then I got married. And right back to you don’t need that new pedal or guitar you want it. 🙄 you know what Andy? You should get the 4x12. You only live once. Life’s short. If it’ll make you happy I say get it. 😉. But has anyone noticed how much utube and the internet have made GAS so much worse? As I said that’s what got me going.
Just based on what Dan mentioned, it'd be great to have a show on monitoring stage volumes. Especially with heads+cabs when you can't easily tilt the cab back..
How can you tell the treble was at 3 pm vs 3 am? Are things really that different on this side of the pond? On a more serious note, was there a reason you didn’t use your trusty, rusty decibel meter? Would it show that the perception in loudness can be attributed to a wider frequency range being heard? Another great show!
I’m almost 60. I bought my first 4x12 (1960A) last year. I had to get my son to pick it up because: a) it wouldn’t fit it my car And b) I had recently seriously broken my arm in a bicycle accident. I love that cab. I live in a townhouse. 🇨🇦🎸
Come on Dan, must try harder! I once drove from London to Manchester with a double bed (including mattress) in my Mitsubishi Colt! Awesome show as always. My wife loves you guys as you keep me quiet for hours - she's a bit scared about how many pedals I'm going to end up with though....
Interesting video guys! Because I don't often play places where I can play really loud, I have discovered that the best for me is a 15-20 watt amp with an oversized open back 1X12 cab. I have an ac15 with a blue (head and cab) a marshal with a green back, and a fender style 20 watt blackface amp with a celestion gold. With the oversized cab the 1X12 sounds bigger- not sure why, but I've tried all sorts of sizes. I build my own cabs, so I have had more opportunity than most people to tinker with dimensions. I also find that cabs that are a bit deeper sound bigger as well. My 1X12 cabs tend to be about 11 inches deep and then often around 18 inches high and 20-22 inches wide. I once build a cab that was 9 inches deep and it sounded pathetic, so that extra couple inches of depth really helps keep the low end going. I like Dan's comment about the 1X12 standing at the back of the room. One thing I've noticed is that in most venues that are smallish- like a bar or small club- a 1X12 at medium volume sounds huge. There's a relationship between the cab and the room that is sympathetic. However, on the times that I've played larger stages, my 1X12s suddenly sounded thin and "all mids" to me. Totally different sound. It's tough, but you really need different size amps (cabs) for different size venues. At big stages the front of house can amplify a small amp to sound huge- but then you need to play "with" the sound of your amp coming back through the monitors, which can be weird, rather than with your amp, which is much more natural. This is why head and cab can be really practical- I often bring the same head to a gig, but will add another speaker cab if the venue is larger- or even two of my small lower wattage amps. If I played larger places (200 seat and up) venues often, then I would probably just suck it up and get a higher wattage amp. One thing to note- I think a lot of bedroom players ask so many questions about wattage because they are plagued by a feeling of inadequacy. They like their tones, but they see pics of huge amps, and maybe on the cover of their favorite albums, and they assume they must be missing something. However, if you are playing at home, big amps just isn't needed, and may sound really bad, because an amp that is too loud for a space (like the reverse of a 1X12 in a small club- a 50 watt marshal and 4x12 in your bedroom) will sound boomy, harsh, unpleasant. really loud amps often sound bad up close- probably because you're not supposed to put your ear up to a the speakers of a 50 watt marshal. On stage, the big highs and strident mids translate into a full cutting sound that dissipates effectively in a large room- at home it bounces off the walls with force perhaps making you feel like your head is stuck inside a snare drum. So, if you do a lot of home recording, stick to 1X12s. I have no doubt that the 4x12 sounded louder and bigger in the room, but sitting here and listening back it wasn't all that different, and I have to say that the speakers themselves lend more to the sound of each cab recorded than the size. For myself, I preferred the bassbreaker with the 2x12 probably because I like the sound of those creambacks!
Bedroom players ask about wattage because the entire history of tube amps is based on volume requirements which are the absolute opposite of their own, hence it can be difficult to understand which amps are viable candidates (never mind that master volume controls and power amp designs vary such that an amp's power rating is far from the only significant factor in such a determination).
On the FOH engineer point: in my experience, engineers that are insecure about their mixing ability will do their best (consciously or not) to control whatever they can coming off of the stage (guitar amp volume). I have seen many engineers even ask the drummer to play quieter on some occasions. There are exceptions to this (small room, volume cap, etc.), but more often than not I have found that to be the case. I am more of an engineer than a guitar player these days, and I think that stage volume is part of what makes live music great, no stage volume can make a band or mix sound sterile and incomplete, especially with a drummer. Just my humble opinion of course, I don't claim to be an exceptional engineer, but I am at least not insecure in my abilities.
I love my Fender Princeton Reverb 12-15 watts thru a 10" C Gold for small to medium venues. Fits perfectly in the band mix. Tone for days AND load in/load out with one hand!
I know a lot of people will consider this a futile experiment as of course the 4x12 will trump the blah blah blah, but it really interesting to see the reaction. I have been would be guitarist for 35 years and learnt on an unplugged electric guitar aged 13. My only amps were homemade valves running through cobbled fisher speakers and the like. Apart from that it was solid state combos, small ones. I recently committed to properly playing and now I can afford some gear have gone from a Marshall code 50 and an 80's peavey bandit 112 to a Marshall origin 20 through a 2061cx 2x12 and the first time I plugged it in, my eyes fell out their sockets, lower teeth shattered as my jaw hit the floor and instantly regretted the last 35 wasted years. Even if, as me, you're an at home study/den (I've grown out of the bedroom) player, get a low watt valve amp and at least a 2x12 and wallow in the depth and breadth of the tone you will struggle to get on the small things. I can play on the 0.5w origin setting at 4-6 volume with the kids sleeping in the next room and still get my jolly's. I've converted my code 50 to a head and now want a 4x12... I'm gonna need a bigger study, and it no longer doubles as a spare room. Thanks Dan and Mick for the effort and time.
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with small amps. I use a 65 amps lil elvis which is a 12 watt with a master voltage that can bring down the wattage and it is loud enough for most places places, be it a club/bar, outdoor venue, or even a basketball stadium with a full brass section and drums which is where I'm currently using it and that's without a PA. And dan I reckon you'd like the lil elvis as its a very good vox style amp thats specifically designed for lower volume situations like clubs and studios but it can still take your head off when you want and it always feels super good, much better than my friend's half stack. Anyways awesome show guys
Mick - your playing from 38:00-41:00 was especially noteworthy this week. I always enjoy the notes you two find on those fretboards… this is a prime example. Tasteful, varied but not obnoxious, had a few “trademark Mick” riffs but didn’t rely heavily on them. Looked like you even surprised yourself once or twice with what you played. It’s always enjoyable watching and hearing inspiration as it happens, and I believe that’s what we saw here. Thank you both for helping so many keep the motivation and inspiration to play! EDIT: Lightning strikes twice! 49:33-50:55. Mick, this was a good day. I love those days, I try to record all I can so then later when I can’t get my head in the right place I can listen back and work with what I played when I was thinking clearly and playing at my best. EDIT: Hopefully the last one. Dan, once you pick up that Gretsch, I feel like it really came together for you as well. That was the guitar you needed to connect with the rest of that oddball rig. haha
Love it when Dan rocks the Les Paul. That is one heck of a guitar. All we need is a good 20/30 watt valve amp, good 2 x 12 cab and a few pedals. Mystery solved, old school.
This sheds a lot of light on whether or not that big cabinet is just a phallic symbol. Though we all don’t necessarily like it loud, a broad or full soundstage makes a big difference, even at low volumes. Thanks!
That 4x12 sounded so thick!!! Reminds me of when I first plugged my Dark Terror into my Marshall 4x12 and I was suddenly transported to a foreign land of tone.
pierrederesistance thank you! Man that’s been bugging me for days now it’s all coming back. It’s on the tusk album and obviously there’s the original peter green version.
hi guys, i'm a big fan of the show, first of all, sorry if I mess up with the writing, i'm not a native english speaker, i'm a big defender of the theory that the cab is more important than the amp nowdays (in the old days you had to spend a lot of money to sound good), I have seen million times: a costumer enter the shop, try different amps, chose one of them, only buy the head, as soon a he plug in his home realize that the amp don't sound as nice as in the store. In my experience on the studio situation (depends of the music you will record) the big the cab don't always get the biggest sound, cause is more difficult to have cab resonance (bass on wood), you need more volume, in a small cab you have a vibrance on the wood with a reasonable volume but sometimes sacriface headrom, I think the perfect balance is a 2x12, you have more wood in the same cabinet to get diff (more bass reconance on the cab) more headroom and you can put differnt speakers to try different tones mixing microphones positions, don't have to get loud as f$·#k and get mad the neibours to get a sweet guitar sound, but LIVE live is another story, depends on the venue, monitors, musicians position on the stage and style of music, the law is: the more the stage is big the more the amp has to be big. cheers and the all good vibes to you guys.
23:56 The Greenback-loaded 4x12 sounds louder than the 65W-Creamback-loaded 2x12 and the V-Type-loaded Bassbreaker combo due to speaker sensitivity differences and acoustic coupling. When speakers are aligned closely enough, they couple acoustically (comb filtering notwithstanding)-the textbook example shows a 6dB increase (e.g. 98dB sensitivity x2 = 105dB combined sensitivity). However, speakers which share a common power amp divide the power such that the vast majority of guitarists will see a 3dB increase (i.e. the textbook 6dB increase with half the power): a notable exception is the Orange Rocker 32 combo, which provides separate power amps for each of its speakers. This means that the equivalent sensitivities of the cabs in this comparison are as follows: * Bassbreaker: 98dB (98dB+0dB) * Victory: 100dB (97dB+3dB) * Marshall: 104dB (98dB+3dB+3dB) * Victory & Marshall: 105dB Another way to compare the volume increases is to think of the equivalent increase in amp power. Doubling the amp wattage yields a 3dB increase in volume at identical settings, therefore the effective amp power ratings are as follows: * Bassbreaker: 15W * Victory: 30W * Marshall: 60W * Victory & Marshall: 75W Though speaker cabinet construction is hugely significant to such comparisons, this particular comparison is helped by the speakers' relatively-similar frequency response in the 1kHz (the frequency at which sensitivity is rated) region: the Celestion Vintage 30, for example, significantly exceeds its rated sensitivity beyond 1kHz (the Vintage 30 is infamous in this regard, hence speakers like the WGS Veteran 30).
I’ve done some experiments with this, and a 1x12 sounds much smaller and more compressed, and distorts earlier (obviously more speakers = more power handling in almost every case). You have to turn the bass down on the smaller cabinet to keep it from getting “flubby” and distorting. The amount of air in the cabinet contributes to bass and volume, and combined with more speakers (meaning each is getting pushed less), gives a wider, more open, more detailed, less compressed sound. It is amazing how much is the speaker cabinet, vs the amp itself.
That was amazing! I watched this video coming from your previous video about cabs, and I enjoyed all the great tones and information. it's a hard decision to make, I'm lost between getting an Open Back 1X12 or a Closed Back 2X12 both loaded with Vintage 30s. I play a lot of diverse things and prog. Making it harder to decide if I want the tighter sound of a closed back or the openness multi-dimensional sound of the open back...Cheers from Jordan!
I used closed back for a while and back to open back as soon as possible. You have to locate a closed back very back side of the stage, away from yourself or drummer can't hear you well. Open backs can be heard both sides front and back of the amp. More useful for me.
Yes!Small amps and big cabs are always so cool.I love the sound of a 20 watt head though a traditional 4x12.I retired my 100 and 50 watt Marshall amps years ago (mostly) in favor of my PRS Custom 20 running through either a Marshall 1960A,1965A or an Egnator 350 watt Armageddon cab.For myself...I’ve never cared for “speaker distortion”.I do love being able to control the dynamics between a small amps power section and preamp with the added “body” that that big cab affords you,not to mention the additional sound spread.Is it perfect for every situation?Nope...but that is why they make 2x12 cabs and 4x10’s.Each one gives an amp a whole new personality,it’s almost like getting a new amp and who doesn’t like that new amp feeing?Great job as always guys...this made my Friday!Rock on.🤟🏻
For Q&A episode :) What about stacking a pair of 1x12 vs a single 2x12? I guess as long as you like each individual 1x12 combo the result will be a good sounding result, as you have demonstrated in your previous stereo rig episodes but would like to hear your comments again.
This just speaks to the character of Dan. Even though he couldn’t hear himself he respected the decision of the sound tech even though the sound tech was wrong! What a champion!
@23:54 “no, please, don’t tell me we sat here only to have 4x12 prove that they are indeed Lord of all guitar tone after all”. Cheers brothers. So fun to virtually hang out with you two.
I happened upon a Traynor 9x8 cabinet (Roughly the same size as a 4x12) closed back. Around the same time I picked up a Blackstar HT-1RH 1 Watt Tube Amp. These play very nicely together for some very usable home tones and levels. I get decent dynamics out of it at reasonable volumes. The setup can be loud enough dirty to annoy the house as well though.
@@markferguson3745 It's decent. I've gotten some great sounds with it stock, but I do like to run it with the extension cab or, if I can, wet/dry with my Blues Jnr or Laney Cub12r. The Bassbreaker is my dry amp in that situation.
Matt Gilbert probably a dumb question, when you use an extension cab do the speaker/s stop working in your combo? I’m thinking of getting a cab for my combo but I don’t know exactly how it would function.
@@imacashew. Nope, but it depends on the cab. I use the matching 8ohm 112 Bassbreaker cab. I can run both internal and extension. It's also a great cab for other amps. I like that V-Type, it's good (but not "great") and the cab is just another stock V-Type - however, running two of them with one in the larger extension 112 makes a big difference. You basically have a 212 Bassbreaker 15.
Even with my Amazon PC speakers, I can really hear the difference with the larger cabs. Not so much when it is clean, but once you engage the pedals. Good to know that a lower wattage amp can power big cabs. Thank you!
This video instantly lit a bulb as soon as the video ended I plugged the class5 into the 4x12 and blew my own mind, haven’t played with that much heart in years, you guys are the best just absolutely amazing, there hasn’t been an episode that hasn’t taught me something, the inspiration and bump in motivation to get hands on the tele that comes from your show cannot be summed into words. Thank you so much for what you do, you guys are incredible, keep up the great work! What are the chances of seeing a Vase?
This is already one of my favorite TPS episodes. Speakers and cabinets are endlessly fascinating and there are so many variables at play. I really learned to love 1x12" combo amps after I started cranking my Carr Rambler to 10. I plug an Esquire straight in and there's something special about how the speaker and cabinet take the full power of the amp and spread it through the room. It sounds really balanced to me no matter where I am on stage and I never have trouble hearing myself anymore. I tend to work completely off of stage volume with no guitar in my monitors at all. So simple and I get everything from my Esquire's volume control and my pick attack.
I like combos because I'm an insane person that likes how it sounds with the chasis inside the cab, but I LOVE hooking an extension to my Suhr Bella. Has such a difference in sound on stage, its a beautiful thing. Would you consider throwing Dan's AC30 through the same paces for a little one off (heck all your guys amps) for indulgent fun?
Great video. Thanks Mick and Dan. That was super helpful. It reinforces a conclusion I reached a few years ago, that different combinations of cabs with my favourite heads gives me all the variation I need. With a mix of 1x12 and 2x12 cabs loaded with various Celestion and Electrovoice speakers I have most bases covered. I still miss my dear old 4x12, but that went to the great gig in the sky some time ago.
I think a better comparison would be just between 10" 12" 15" speakers to see how they compare to get better perceived volume and also how the speaker affects highs, lows & mid range
Yeah, guitar cabs, & yes, comparing the tonal characteristics, perceived volume, etc. In the far distant recesses of my mind was a review in Guitarist mag many years ago by Eddie Allen of the Peavey Classic 50 head with a full stack made up of a 4x10 cab on top, and a 1x15 at the bottom. That set up intrigued me, as does kit like the 1x15 Fender Excelsior (?) combo. Not enough to try & play through one as yet, mind ...
@@horsehead But there's already comparisons on that... Generally you'll just get a "thicker" sound with larger speakers, almost a similar effect to having a bigger cabinet with more speakers. - The larger speakers tend to have a "duller" higher end (and of course beefier lower end) and pretty much the other way around for the smaller speakers. - What also matter is the size of the voice coil and probably the magnet-size/weight, which will all be variables. - That's also why the "experiment" in this video isn't really done right, because they have massively different speakers and cabinets. - A different speaker in that 1x12" combo could've made it a lot "bigger" or louder (also if the cabinet were larger), the same for different speakers in the Victory cab, if they weren't Creambacks (or whatever they are) they might have sounded as grand as the Marshall 4x12". - I know you wanna see it in this show, but I've already told you the results because you can already find them. And of course, a disclaimer; It also depends on the room, positioning, the back of the cabinet, and so on and so forth.
@Chris Drake It is exceedingly difficult to find otherwise-similar guitar speakers in 10″, 12″, and 15″ diameters. That is partly due to the nature of speaker manufacturing and partly due to the nature of the market: people shopping for certain sizes of speakers tend to have distinct sounds in mind, which is also true of cabinet form factors within a given speaker diameter; when was the last time you saw a commercial 4x12 loaded with Celestion Blues, for example?
two tiny cabs 1X12" on the right side and on the left 2 ore 3 meters from each other, with different speakers (like a creamback on the left and a Jensen Alnico on the right) connected with a cab merger and a little amp. That sounds great for me.
Friday, drinking only good coffee, playing guitar, blasting the car stereo with any good rock era 60´s,70´s (singing optional but outside the birds explode in mid air when I sing)..... and That Pedal Show. I have one big request: I have found that some Overdrives can be percussive, meaning they enhance the initial attack sound of string notes and other Overdrives have a mild low mids and mid mids tonality that make them feel like rock and roll butter and others have nice overtones that are good for fast lead or rhythm playing. I PROPOSE that you guys figure out a new overdrive tone classification menu, for showing on a couple episodes. You have the experience and gear to make it happen. Some OD pedals have their pros and cons. For example the Phat Mod by Keeley is based on a famous pedal, and the Phat Mod to my ears has a wonderful percussive and note separation above other pedals. Hope u guys find it worthy to investigate. No sex can even come close to that, if it where the other way around, there would be almost no musicians creating or fans listening. Sex would win over. But in this reality realm: Music is the unbeatable champion in providing happy years and camaraderie. Live long and Prosper. i
What I'm hearing is the 4x12 sounds more scooped with less mids. I actually prefer the 1x12 through my headphones. It sounds more focused. That being said if I was in the room I might have a different opinion.
I have done bass gigs around town with my Mesa Walkabout 12 combo, StingRay Bass in a Warwick Rockbag, Boss BCB-3 pedalboard and my cable bag on a collapsible hand truck, with my handbag over my shoulder. If I only have a few blocks to go from my flat to the venue, it works perfectly.
Honestly the 1x12 is really the one that does it for me.. I feel like there’s a scoop going on in the mids especially in the 4x12. I’m in no doubt that the 4x12 sounds waaay better in the room, but when you’re sitting on the other side of TH-cam.. the smallest one rocks the house ❤️
24:00 Question on why is it louder. In the early 2000’s I was into car audio. I believe you used to expect between +3-4db by doubling the surface area of the subs. I’d expect it to be the same on a guitar cab?
I still remember when I had my tele/strat, jcm 800, a boss chorus, reverb and delay in front and that was pretty much it. Even then I thought I was ostentatious. Ah, Australia in the '80s.
Great video guys, a couple things I'm surmising: - speakers are to playing live what tires are to racing (equation percentage wise)? - the speakers through the mics are one reference point and yield one comparison - e.g. I really like the 1x12 mic'd, but I'm guessing I wouldn't prefer it in the room - the speakers in the room with stereo EAR Mics mounted within the head of the player yields another comparison - mic'd cabs are only ever going to be heard (felt) by studio monitors, home/car speakers, headphones, or PA setups - cabinets provide double duty...they provide a flavored mic of the source for FOH and they provide a monitor/feedback-loop for the player in the space - we should consider all factors when thinking about your amp cab setup, how does it sound mic'd and how does it sound in the room - yes you can make a small combo sound bigger with diff speakers, it makes a surprisingly huge diff to many factors it makes me wonder what you could do in the room to "capture" the feel of the player perspective - would binaural work there? maybe do more player perspective room mics to show the delta? great stuff as always!!
Next trip to the US, stop by my hometown of kokomo Indiana and visit Weber Speakers and pick up a few different types of speakers and make a fun day of it. Haha.
Ted Weber is to speakers as Analogman is to fuzz, there’s very few people that have the passion to dive down those rabbit holes and come out with things that rival if not beat the originals like Ted Weber and Mike Piera
Too relatable! getting told to turn down when you can't even hear your amp in the context of the band is all too common right now. people have become afraid of volume. I know and agree that band balance is vital, but i wish people would remember that raw volume and feeling the sound hit you is half the fun of a show ! do people think fugazi was anywhere near quite? haha
Are we ever going to see Simon on camera? He definitely seems to have opinions when it comes to the gear, the pedals, and the playing, I would like to get a chance to hear some of his noodle-ings. Keep up to great videos. Btw I love your tangents and long videos.
Idk what it was but the Marshall cab made the fender amp sound more like a Marshall. It had that very direct and in your face mid range which I found surprising.
Hi guys I run a 1X10 combo with 1X12 extension cab live. This seems to retain the punchiness of the 1X10 together with the depth of the 1X12 and of course is much louder than the 1x10 on its own. This works for me, but in general are there any reasons not to run different sized speakers together?
The primary reason not to run mixed cabs is comb filtering, though you might like the result of such filtering. The same is true of blending speakers of identical diameter, by the way.
Once had a sound guy with a ton of equipment but couldn't figure out how to get a mic on the guitar amp. So, I had to crank the amp up to be heard solely from the amp alone. Having a Marshall 4x12 and a 50watt tube head helped in that situation.
Dan, I had a similar experience with Bon Iver as you did with Springsteen. I just couldn't understand the hype. Then I saw him/them live ... Boom! Lost my trousers.
I had the same experience with Bruce Springsteen. In 1978 (not a typo), my freshman year in college, guy in the room next door offered me one of his tickets for the Bruce show on campus. I was “meh” on Bruce, and almost said no. Decided to go, turned out they were 10th row center seats, and Bruce played for four hours and burned the house down. I was an instant convert.
So it's Friday morning Two Johnnie Walker Gold Label Reserve | Scotch Whisky's in and I will testify that a 4x12 cab is always the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the comment Mick makes regarding the feeling of compression and whether it's down to the open backed cab vs closed back. I made my Marshall 1936 cab into a convertable backed cab and can definitely relate to that when I have it (semi) open backed vs closed back - and that's at the same volume with the same guitar and the same amp and the same speakers etc. The only difference being whether a piece of wood is closing a gap in the back or not. Definitely more bass response and more directional sound as well with the closed back, but I prefer the spongier feel with the open back.
I love this show. Finding less time these days to actually sit down with headphones and absorb it properly, but that's a direct result of spending more time with my own gear. Thanks guys!
I too have a Bassbreaker 45 and would love to see you guys get some tones out of it! I've started using my BB45 as a dry amp that compresses a little bit when you play hard. I use a Fender Super 112, 60 watt amp as the wet amp because it has loads of headroom and is so bass heavy compared to the BB45 that has so much mid range!
I use a Weber Mass to tame my BB45 even on the “1 watt” power scale setting. Would love to see one on the show. I think it could give the Hiwatt some SPL competition!
Keeping looking for one of those. Weber seemed to have a supply problem last I looked. I'd just get Fryette Power Station something but $$$. EDIT: Never mind, they're back now.
I've recorded massive doom sounds through a low gain 5W tube amp. I mic up a massive 2x12" bass cab with a ribbon close up and a condenser in the room.
Am a total fan of those green backs and have a 1976 4x12 of them...they are the real thing each time..whatever head or combo I feed them...speakers speak for themselves...50% of the sound...i agree !
Dan, your story about getting your first 4 x 12 reminds me of many years ago when my wife and I went into a music store and I ended up purchasing a Soldano 50 watt half stack. Anyway, we were driving in a little Toyota Paseo and I had to crouch in the back with the 4 x 12 cabinet on the ride home. So, I totally understand what you were going through Dan.
@24:00 "Why is the 4x12 louder?". Mick's explanation may be partly the cause, different speakers, different sensitivity and transient response may be perceived as "louder. However it's more likely to be the acoustic coupling in a 4x12 that does not exist in a 1x12. 2 identical acoustic sources will sum at +3db vs a single source and 4 will sum at +3db vs 2. So the 4x12 will be +6db louder than the 1x12 just because of acoustic summation .
Hey @Logan 5 Electrically you are correct, but this is not electrical it is acoustic. A 3db summation occurs when (mostly) identical acoustic sources couple. This is why choirs sound louder than quartets. It's not that the singers in the choir are all singing louder, it's the summation of identical acoustic sources making the whole louder. You can also try this by running a mono track to a L/R speaker system an then unplugging one of the speakers. The db drop you hear is roughly 3db.
@@philipvanpeborgh9273 I think you're missing Logan 5's point: each of the 4 speakers in the 4x12 cab will NOT be running at the same power (or producing the same volume) as the individual speaker in the 1x12. Your choir analogy is incorrect; It's actually more like comparing the volume of one person talking vs. four people WHISPERING. Most 4x12's are wired as a series/parallel array so the entire circuit has the same impedance as one speaker. The amp would deliver the same current and power to either the 4x12 or the 1x12 (assuming all the speakers are identical). Each speaker in the 4x12 would see only half the total current and therefore be dissipating only 25% of the power supplied by the amp. Compare that to the 1x12 speaker which dissipates all of it. I think the perceived volume bump is due to the coupling, and the better dispersion in the room. Also don't forget closed- vs. open-back cab and the bass response. That makes a huge difference. But as for me, I like a combo amp I can carry in one hand!
After using different 2x12 cabs I currently stick to a ported 1x12 cab with a Celestion V30 which sounds really big, cuts through on stage and is very portable. For sure I won't lug around a 4x12 anymore. A good ported 1x12 cab is enough if the cab is miked, unless you play arena's. Great episode guys. And two Faux Fenders, love it!
So, now my TPS-approved gigging rig is guitar, pedal board, two amp heads or combos and two 4X12 cabinets for a WET:DRY set up.... Oh, wait, we're now going WET:DRY:WET, right? I'm going to need a bigger boat....
When you mentioned do musicians and bands travel with all their Gear on the bus as a central London bus driver I can vouch for the fact that yes they do. I observed from my drivers cab the most popular amp type for single musicians was a Peavey Classic 30 Watt combo and less often a Fender hot rod usually dragged along with some kind of trolley with wheels and once I remember picking up a lone female who's quite young probably around early 20s with a guitar strapped to her back and a Fender hot rod deluxe strapped around a modified shopping trolley trying to get this heavy anp onto the bus I had to get out of my cab and help her pull it on board. There was one particular occasion that I will never forget about 10 years ago when I pulled up in my number 43 bus outside Holloway Road tube station and there was a full band of young men with all their Gear stacked up 6 ft high by about 12 feet and 4 feet deep and I remember thinking to myself oh they must be waiting for their roadies with the van to move all their Gear to wherever they going. But no suddenly one guy with a guitar case came on showed his pass and said hang on Driver while we get our Gear on and they proceeded to load the bus with guitar amps speaker cabinets bass speaker cabinets and full drumset stands and God knows what in other cases. It took them about 10 minutes to load everything on I didn't say anything I was just thinking yes this is rock and roll. I drive down Holloway Road three or four stops to Highbury Corner outside a venue called the garage when they unloaded all their Gear which took another 10 minutes I waited patiently filled with admiration and envious that I didn't have a rock and roll style lifestyle. I don't know who this young band were but I hope they were successful as they deserved it if any of them or watching your show tell them I was the driver that took them from Holloway Road tube station to Highbury Corner on my bus it made my bus about half an hour late by the time I reach my destination my controller called me up and asked me why I was so late all I could say was Rock and Roll loading he didn't reply he just cut off his call. big fan of the show thanks Gio.
That was fun to read.
Haha, that was hilarious!
Love this story! That's dedication!
You are an awesome Man Gio, hope that you are doing well.
Amazing story!
You should get a foh sound engineer to discuss about guitar live sound possibilities and problems.
I really find the gap between the perceived gain of a cab in the room vs a mic'ed cab in FOH mindboggling.
Worst video yet. 😆I’ve been suppressing the desire for a 4x12 for 45 years. Now the fuse is lit. I had a VHT with 2x12 combo. I don’t miss it. I bought a V30 head 2 weeks ago now I don’t know what I want for it. 1x12?, 2x12, 4x12? And 2 wet amps, 1 dry amp, 3 quad boxes... oh my aching back! And I’ll have to issue ear plugs to the family and neighbours.! Glad you guys touched on open back vs closed back. I wanted a Musicman with 2x10 for a long time. What difference would 10s make? I’ve had a Mesa Boogie caliber 22 for nearly 30 years. 1x12. I don’t think I ever ran it above 3/3 without foh guy telling me to turn it down. Channel mix up I guess😂 watching out for drop bears in Oz.
Great idea Jukka- it would be really interesting to get a guy in here to discuss amp wattage/ cab size who is both a live sound pro and an experienced studio engineer- to discuss what actually works best in these very different worlds.
Noise boy & guitar player here. In brief, I'd like all of the sources on stage to be about as loud as a [good] singer. I.e. shout as loud as you can: that's how loud I want your amp (and that's probably louder than you think - I've probably asked people to turn UP as often as DOWN). This allows me to get a useful amount of gain before feedback on the guitar mics without the backline spoiling everything else. Same goes for everything else, not just guitars. If that's not loud/clear enough for you, I'll give you as much as you want in the monitors (which are typically NOT pointing down everyone else's vocal mics).
Something I've never heard mentioned on TPS or anywhere else is the directivity of guitar cabinets. As we all know from the endless discussion of mic placement, they sound wildly different depending on the angle from which they're heard. As a FoH guy, I'm trying to make it sound the same (preferably 'good') everywhere. PA 'speakers are designed to do this, whereas that death star laser beam of a guitar cab you've got on stage isn't. If it sounds great right in front of the guitar player, it'll sound dull on the other side of the stage. If it sounds good over there, chances are people are having their hair parted in front of the guitarist.
Volume on its own isn't necessarily the enemy; it's the fact it's REALLY loud in one direction. In the past, where I've had guitar players with amps which have needed to be driven a little harder, we've pointed the cab backwards, or across the stage. The player can still hear properly via their monitors and it enables us to run the amp hotter without hurting the audience. The natural extension of this is isolation cabinets as used (to great effect) by an increasing number of touring bands.
In very small venues where the PA is really only doing vocals and monitors might be just a dream, quieter really is better. I remember walking into a pub once and hearing a blues/rock band playing. It wasn't until I got to the bar that I realised that they were in the same room and this was the best 'pub' sound I'd ever heard. The drummer was on an electric kit, the guitar player was on a Kemper and the bass player was just DI'd. Drummer used headphones; the other two had 8" wedges and the PA was a pair of self-powered 12"s. Perfect!
Speaking of drummers and to answer the direct question: we don't tend to ask the drummer to turn down because we're not fond of wasting our breath. They can't turn down an acoustic kit and asking a drummer to play softly in soundcheck is going to lead to one thing only: a rubbish gig when they start playing normally again and nothing else is loud enough. There's also an element of the fact that a guitar, as a melodic instrument with an almost identical range to a human, is far more capable of drowning out a vocal than a percussive snare drum, no matter how loud the latter might be.
@@epondlife if more players and sound guys approached running live sound like you do, we would all be a lot happier and sound a lot better. Thanks for the clear breakdown.
Thanks a lot guys. Sold my Marshall 4x12 cab 15 years ago. Didn't regret it until watching this vid!!! Great work.
I remember basing my car purchases on whether my 412 cab would fit. That was my No1 priority.
New Year’s honours list for you. Sir Danial. Well deserved!
Show idea:
Lots of pedal companies were started by people who started by modding other pedals. How about revisiting these pedals and a show with only modded pedals. Keeley blues driver mod, JHS modded rat and so on and so on. Just a thought. Some of these pedals have turned into there own thing all together and it would be a chance for Dan to go off on some major tangents on the technical bits. Lol. Regardless if this is a usable thought for you, keep doing what you are doing. Thanks for doing what you do.
I like this. Mick here. Cheers!
I love the tangents! Long shows rule!
I should have called them "Dan"-gents. They go well with Mick's Moans. Lol
true enough, I bought a tube screamer clone of ebay years ago, turns out to be one of Thorpy's early learning pedals!
Better clones than mods. 50+ for a switch, a sticker and a pot?
My sides literally split when Mick revealed his thoughts on how the sound guy mixed up the channels at your gig. Been there too!
I think most gigging musicians have encountered that problem (happened to me too) and there's nothing more depressing when you're on stage and can't hear yourself :(
Pics or it didn't happen.
I love the sound engineers that pan 2 guitarists almost full left right on large gigs. Half of the people hear only one guitar player, brilliant. You can choose what you want to hear, based on where you stand...
Maurice Koonings that’s an interesting way of looking at it
Best moment of the show was the 4x12 with the 2x12
I have tried watching this at work.
Today everybody needs something from me.
It has taken nearly 90 minutes to listen to 20 minutes.
Love the videos.
My job sucks.
Your job sucks because you have to do a job and not watch TH-cam videos?
There is one thing I find interesting when switching speaker cabinets, is the change in tone. At first, its really noticeable. But after just a few seconds, its no big deal.
I honestly think a lot of people underestimate the effect of cabinet size. I have a couple of 1x12 combos and the “bigger” ones sound bigger even on the same wattage. The 4x12 cabinet has A LOT of space for the air and the sound to resonate...
Awesome job guys, as always!
Good point. I realized that cabinet size thing when i bought a Laney VC15 which has a small cabinet.
I know this is probably anathema... but I use the amp legs on my Super Reverb. It aims the sound of the amp at me and away from the sound man’s ears. I get more perceived volume on stage without being asked to turn down because my amp volume is dispersed by the ceiling. Also, I can hear the true EQ of my tone. My amp is mic’d as well. Great Show.
So simple, so effective! Nice one Murray!
Those legs are there for a good reason and they are very effective.I have no clue why so many folks just don’t use them or even take them off.Very good point though and I just love use of anathema to describe it...well played.
@@74doomtrooper - Using amp stands or legs should be the law. So many shows I've done sound at where the guitarist claimed he couldn't hear himself well, while my head (and everyone else's) is being torn off. The reason a lot of players won't use them is because they don't like the sound when the speaker is pointed at their head. They prefer the mellower indirect sound. ...and I'm like, "Duh... if you don't like the sound of the cab pointed at your head, how do you think your audience feels about it?"
Marc Cote Exactly...I agree.You would think that it would be obvious! I like to here my “actual” sound...the board and mic’s can handle the rest.I also preach a type of anathema myself maybe even borderline sacrilege for a guitar player...spend more money on a good PA system and at most normal gigs...the folks out front will love you for it.
@@74doomtrooper - A good PA makes all the difference, especially when you include good monitoring.
Coming from the world of bass guitar, the 1x12 should have more bass if you put it on the floor. Low end is very dependent on positioning in the room and how well it can conduct thru surfaces. would be interesting to demo this if you guys do a follow up!
I would really like to hear guitar(s) straight into the amp when showing the difference between 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 cabs. No pedals.
People are too concerned with showcasing their skills as a music produce that to give an honest review of what the 99% of us out there will actually hear at home with our guitar, cable and amp and without $10,000 worth of equipment connected to it.
Johan is your friend.
This is not that show. ✌
@@hoboroadie4623 best comment 😂 it’s literally called “That Pedal show”..
can you please speak to my wife and explain to her why i need a 4x12 in my life :-)
Just tell her that it’s BIG and CLEVER! ;0)
Andy Lord cmon u only need a 1x12. If ur on stage mic it. It’s plenty loud. You can have my 2x12 red cabinet. I hate it.
Joe Robins I don’t need a 4x12, my 2x12 sounds great... But I Want a 4x12!
Just get two 2x12s and run a stereo wet dry rig. She'll be very happy! 🙃
Andy Lord I get it. My mom would say when I was growing up “you don’t need new sneakers or whatever, jeans you want them”. And that’s why I had very few material things growing up. But as soon as I was making my own money the gear addiction started very slowly. After I got better I wanted actual guitars and amps that were useable. Then it got out of control. Pedal addiction, dirt pedals mainly kicked in thx to utube. Then I got married. And right back to you don’t need that new pedal or guitar you want it. 🙄 you know what Andy? You should get the 4x12. You only live once. Life’s short. If it’ll make you happy I say get it. 😉. But has anyone noticed how much utube and the internet have made GAS so much worse? As I said that’s what got me going.
All other things aside, I fall in love with the Dunlop Echoplex delay every time I hear it. I need one.
I know same here..weird how that works. But that pedal seems to work with lots of different amp/guitar setups
Its worth shelling out the $$. I love mine!
Try the Belle Epoch as well; gives you a little more fun and tweakability, arguably better sound fidelity.
It replaced my El Capistan, which never really did it for me. Love that little Echoplex!
"Nothing like starting with a massive tangent"
I for one wouldn't have it any other way.
(p.s. How did you forget to honk Bonnamassa?)
LowDef Al I LOVE the tangents!! anybody can demo a pedal but these guys are solid gold.
I think a new show "Tangent Tuesdays" is implied.
Haha "That tangent show". You guys rock.
Did they meet him or do they know him?... Isn't that the requirement?...
@@michaelangeloh.5383 th-cam.com/video/vqhoPqDR47c/w-d-xo.html
The comparison of 1w to 'talking volume' was hugely informative. It showed that 1w is actually usable.
Just based on what Dan mentioned, it'd be great to have a show on monitoring stage volumes. Especially with heads+cabs when you can't easily tilt the cab back..
How can you tell the treble was at 3 pm vs 3 am? Are things really that different on this side of the pond?
On a more serious note, was there a reason you didn’t use your trusty, rusty decibel meter? Would it show that the perception in loudness can be attributed to a wider frequency range being heard?
Another great show!
: Pow they clearly run a 24 hour clock....🤪
I’m almost 60. I bought my first 4x12 (1960A) last year.
I had to get my son to pick it up because:
a) it wouldn’t fit it my car
And
b) I had recently seriously broken my arm in a bicycle accident.
I love that cab.
I live in a townhouse.
🇨🇦🎸
Come on Dan, must try harder! I once drove from London to Manchester with a double bed (including mattress) in my Mitsubishi Colt! Awesome show as always. My wife loves you guys as you keep me quiet for hours - she's a bit scared about how many pedals I'm going to end up with though....
Interesting video guys! Because I don't often play places where I can play really loud, I have discovered that the best for me is a 15-20 watt amp with an oversized open back 1X12 cab. I have an ac15 with a blue (head and cab) a marshal with a green back, and a fender style 20 watt blackface amp with a celestion gold. With the oversized cab the 1X12 sounds bigger- not sure why, but I've tried all sorts of sizes. I build my own cabs, so I have had more opportunity than most people to tinker with dimensions. I also find that cabs that are a bit deeper sound bigger as well. My 1X12 cabs tend to be about 11 inches deep and then often around 18 inches high and 20-22 inches wide. I once build a cab that was 9 inches deep and it sounded pathetic, so that extra couple inches of depth really helps keep the low end going. I like Dan's comment about the 1X12 standing at the back of the room. One thing I've noticed is that in most venues that are smallish- like a bar or small club- a 1X12 at medium volume sounds huge. There's a relationship between the cab and the room that is sympathetic. However, on the times that I've played larger stages, my 1X12s suddenly sounded thin and "all mids" to me. Totally different sound. It's tough, but you really need different size amps (cabs) for different size venues. At big stages the front of house can amplify a small amp to sound huge- but then you need to play "with" the sound of your amp coming back through the monitors, which can be weird, rather than with your amp, which is much more natural. This is why head and cab can be really practical- I often bring the same head to a gig, but will add another speaker cab if the venue is larger- or even two of my small lower wattage amps. If I played larger places (200 seat and up) venues often, then I would probably just suck it up and get a higher wattage amp. One thing to note- I think a lot of bedroom players ask so many questions about wattage because they are plagued by a feeling of inadequacy. They like their tones, but they see pics of huge amps, and maybe on the cover of their favorite albums, and they assume they must be missing something. However, if you are playing at home, big amps just isn't needed, and may sound really bad, because an amp that is too loud for a space (like the reverse of a 1X12 in a small club- a 50 watt marshal and 4x12 in your bedroom) will sound boomy, harsh, unpleasant. really loud amps often sound bad up close- probably because you're not supposed to put your ear up to a the speakers of a 50 watt marshal. On stage, the big highs and strident mids translate into a full cutting sound that dissipates effectively in a large room- at home it bounces off the walls with force perhaps making you feel like your head is stuck inside a snare drum. So, if you do a lot of home recording, stick to 1X12s. I have no doubt that the 4x12 sounded louder and bigger in the room, but sitting here and listening back it wasn't all that different, and I have to say that the speakers themselves lend more to the sound of each cab recorded than the size. For myself, I preferred the bassbreaker with the 2x12 probably because I like the sound of those creambacks!
Bedroom players ask about wattage because the entire history of tube amps is based on volume requirements which are the absolute opposite of their own, hence it can be difficult to understand which amps are viable candidates (never mind that master volume controls and power amp designs vary such that an amp's power rating is far from the only significant factor in such a determination).
The Les Paul into the Bassbreaker with the NRG Kicker was glorious! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Agreed, and thanks (for appreciating my small part in that) Buck And Evans!
That NRG added a nice sound, I really liked it as well.
On the FOH engineer point: in my experience, engineers that are insecure about their mixing ability will do their best (consciously or not) to control whatever they can coming off of the stage (guitar amp volume). I have seen many engineers even ask the drummer to play quieter on some occasions. There are exceptions to this (small room, volume cap, etc.), but more often than not I have found that to be the case. I am more of an engineer than a guitar player these days, and I think that stage volume is part of what makes live music great, no stage volume can make a band or mix sound sterile and incomplete, especially with a drummer. Just my humble opinion of course, I don't claim to be an exceptional engineer, but I am at least not insecure in my abilities.
I love my Fender Princeton Reverb 12-15 watts thru a 10" C Gold for small to medium venues. Fits perfectly in the band mix. Tone for days AND load in/load out with one hand!
I know a lot of people will consider this a futile experiment as of course the 4x12 will trump the blah blah blah, but it really interesting to see the reaction. I have been would be guitarist for 35 years and learnt on an unplugged electric guitar aged 13. My only amps were homemade valves running through cobbled fisher speakers and the like. Apart from that it was solid state combos, small ones. I recently committed to properly playing and now I can afford some gear have gone from a Marshall code 50 and an 80's peavey bandit 112 to a Marshall origin 20 through a 2061cx 2x12 and the first time I plugged it in, my eyes fell out their sockets, lower teeth shattered as my jaw hit the floor and instantly regretted the last 35 wasted years. Even if, as me, you're an at home study/den (I've grown out of the bedroom) player, get a low watt valve amp and at least a 2x12 and wallow in the depth and breadth of the tone you will struggle to get on the small things. I can play on the 0.5w origin setting at 4-6 volume with the kids sleeping in the next room and still get my jolly's. I've converted my code 50 to a head and now want a 4x12... I'm gonna need a bigger study, and it no longer doubles as a spare room. Thanks Dan and Mick for the effort and time.
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with small amps. I use a 65 amps lil elvis which is a 12 watt with a master voltage that can bring down the wattage and it is loud enough for most places places, be it a club/bar, outdoor venue, or even a basketball stadium with a full brass section and drums which is where I'm currently using it and that's without a PA. And dan I reckon you'd like the lil elvis as its a very good vox style amp thats specifically designed for lower volume situations like clubs and studios but it can still take your head off when you want and it always feels super good, much better than my friend's half stack. Anyways awesome show guys
Mick - your playing from 38:00-41:00 was especially noteworthy this week. I always enjoy the notes you two find on those fretboards… this is a prime example. Tasteful, varied but not obnoxious, had a few “trademark Mick” riffs but didn’t rely heavily on them. Looked like you even surprised yourself once or twice with what you played. It’s always enjoyable watching and hearing inspiration as it happens, and I believe that’s what we saw here.
Thank you both for helping so many keep the motivation and inspiration to play!
EDIT: Lightning strikes twice! 49:33-50:55. Mick, this was a good day. I love those days, I try to record all I can so then later when I can’t get my head in the right place I can listen back and work with what I played when I was thinking clearly and playing at my best.
EDIT: Hopefully the last one. Dan, once you pick up that Gretsch, I feel like it really came together for you as well. That was the guitar you needed to connect with the rest of that oddball rig. haha
A whole show about an amp I own! It's like an early Christmas.
Love it when Dan rocks the Les Paul. That is one heck of a guitar. All we need is a good 20/30 watt valve amp, good 2 x 12 cab and a few pedals. Mystery solved, old school.
At 30:42, Mick has nailed Gary Clark Jr.'s tone on Third Stone From the Sun. Bluesbraker 15 head and a Marshall 4x12 cab for me!
This sheds a lot of light on whether or not that big cabinet is just a phallic symbol. Though we all don’t necessarily like it loud, a broad or full soundstage makes a big difference, even at low volumes.
Thanks!
Really glad to see the Les Paul more here lately. Love that guitar.
That 4x12 sounded so thick!!! Reminds me of when I first plugged my Dark Terror into my Marshall 4x12 and I was suddenly transported to a foreign land of tone.
Mick you really need a Les Paul, you change into a rock monster !
What was the riff he was playing on les Paul. Can’t think of song it’s on the top of my tongue and has been bothering me all day.
@@benchristopher1966 "oh well" by fleetwood mac.
Agreed - he needs a Les Paul in his life :).
pierrederesistance thank you! Man that’s been bugging me for days now it’s all coming back. It’s on the tusk album and obviously there’s the original peter green version.
jake his Collings les Paul junior > les Paul
hi guys, i'm a big fan of the show, first of all, sorry if I mess up with the writing, i'm not a native english speaker, i'm a big defender of the theory that the cab is more important than the amp nowdays (in the old days you had to spend a lot of money to sound good), I have seen million times: a costumer enter the shop, try different amps, chose one of them, only buy the head, as soon a he plug in his home realize that the amp don't sound as nice as in the store. In my experience on the studio situation (depends of the music you will record) the big the cab don't always get the biggest sound, cause is more difficult to have cab resonance (bass on wood), you need more volume, in a small cab you have a vibrance on the wood with a reasonable volume but sometimes sacriface headrom, I think the perfect balance is a 2x12, you have more wood in the same cabinet to get diff (more bass reconance on the cab) more headroom and you can put differnt speakers to try different tones mixing microphones positions, don't have to get loud as f$·#k and get mad the neibours to get a sweet guitar sound, but LIVE live is another story, depends on the venue, monitors, musicians position on the stage and style of music, the law is: the more the stage is big the more the amp has to be big. cheers and the all good vibes to you guys.
23:56 The Greenback-loaded 4x12 sounds louder than the 65W-Creamback-loaded 2x12 and the V-Type-loaded Bassbreaker combo due to speaker sensitivity differences and acoustic coupling. When speakers are aligned closely enough, they couple acoustically (comb filtering notwithstanding)-the textbook example shows a 6dB increase (e.g. 98dB sensitivity x2 = 105dB combined sensitivity). However, speakers which share a common power amp divide the power such that the vast majority of guitarists will see a 3dB increase (i.e. the textbook 6dB increase with half the power): a notable exception is the Orange Rocker 32 combo, which provides separate power amps for each of its speakers. This means that the equivalent sensitivities of the cabs in this comparison are as follows:
* Bassbreaker: 98dB (98dB+0dB)
* Victory: 100dB (97dB+3dB)
* Marshall: 104dB (98dB+3dB+3dB)
* Victory & Marshall: 105dB
Another way to compare the volume increases is to think of the equivalent increase in amp power. Doubling the amp wattage yields a 3dB increase in volume at identical settings, therefore the effective amp power ratings are as follows:
* Bassbreaker: 15W
* Victory: 30W
* Marshall: 60W
* Victory & Marshall: 75W
Though speaker cabinet construction is hugely significant to such comparisons, this particular comparison is helped by the speakers' relatively-similar frequency response in the 1kHz (the frequency at which sensitivity is rated) region: the Celestion Vintage 30, for example, significantly exceeds its rated sensitivity beyond 1kHz (the Vintage 30 is infamous in this regard, hence speakers like the WGS Veteran 30).
I’ve done some experiments with this, and a 1x12 sounds much smaller and more compressed, and distorts earlier (obviously more speakers = more power handling in almost every case). You have to turn the bass down on the smaller cabinet to keep it from getting “flubby” and distorting. The amount of air in the cabinet contributes to bass and volume, and combined with more speakers (meaning each is getting pushed less), gives a wider, more open, more detailed, less compressed sound. It is amazing how much is the speaker cabinet, vs the amp itself.
That was amazing! I watched this video coming from your previous video about cabs, and I enjoyed all the great tones and information. it's a hard decision to make, I'm lost between getting an Open Back 1X12 or a Closed Back 2X12 both loaded with Vintage 30s. I play a lot of diverse things and prog. Making it harder to decide if I want the tighter sound of a closed back or the openness multi-dimensional sound of the open back...Cheers from Jordan!
I used closed back for a while and back to open back as soon as possible. You have to locate a closed back very back side of the stage, away from yourself or drummer can't hear you well. Open backs can be heard both sides front and back of the amp. More useful for me.
Yes!Small amps and big cabs are always so cool.I love the sound of a 20 watt head though a traditional 4x12.I retired my 100 and 50 watt Marshall amps years ago (mostly) in favor of my PRS Custom 20 running through either a Marshall 1960A,1965A or an Egnator 350 watt Armageddon cab.For myself...I’ve never cared for “speaker distortion”.I do love being able to control the dynamics between a small amps power section and preamp with the added “body” that that big cab affords you,not to mention the additional sound spread.Is it perfect for every situation?Nope...but that is why they make 2x12 cabs and 4x10’s.Each one gives an amp a whole new personality,it’s almost like getting a new amp and who doesn’t like that new amp feeing?Great job as always guys...this made my Friday!Rock on.🤟🏻
For Q&A episode :) What about stacking a pair of 1x12 vs a single 2x12? I guess as long as you like each individual 1x12 combo the result will be a good sounding result, as you have demonstrated in your previous stereo rig episodes but would like to hear your comments again.
This just speaks to the character of Dan. Even though he couldn’t hear himself he respected the decision of the sound tech even though the sound tech was wrong! What a champion!
🔥🔥⚡️⚡️
I’m a Landreth you haven’t jammed with. I hope to correct that someday.
Parrrrppp! Sounds horn...
@23:54 “no, please, don’t tell me we sat here only to have 4x12 prove that they are indeed Lord of all guitar tone after all”. Cheers brothers. So fun to virtually hang out with you two.
That box of rock is a monster! One of the best sounding pedals you've played with. (Also: FET based, cascading gain stage design!)
Nice. 20 seconds under an hour. Made for a lunchtime!!! Thanks guys
The term you're looking for lads when comparing those cabs is comparing 'apples and toilet seats'
urinal cakes and toilet brownies
Tortoise and Turdles
Nothing beats a 4x12 for sheer joy. Except 2 of them
Thanks for playing some peter green! "Oh well", is a great song!
I happened upon a Traynor 9x8 cabinet (Roughly the same size as a 4x12) closed back. Around the same time I picked up a Blackstar HT-1RH 1 Watt Tube Amp. These play very nicely together for some very usable home tones and levels. I get decent dynamics out of it at reasonable volumes. The setup can be loud enough dirty to annoy the house as well though.
Mostly this video was just a fantastic ad for the Bassbreaker. Sounded fantastic at all times.
Yes, great into other, bigger , cabs; the stock? Not so much.
@@markferguson3745 It's decent. I've gotten some great sounds with it stock, but I do like to run it with the extension cab or, if I can, wet/dry with my Blues Jnr or Laney Cub12r. The Bassbreaker is my dry amp in that situation.
Matt Gilbert probably a dumb question, when you use an extension cab do the speaker/s stop working in your combo?
I’m thinking of getting a cab for my combo but I don’t know exactly how it would function.
@@imacashew. Nope, but it depends on the cab. I use the matching 8ohm 112 Bassbreaker cab. I can run both internal and extension. It's also a great cab for other amps. I like that V-Type, it's good (but not "great") and the cab is just another stock V-Type - however, running two of them with one in the larger extension 112 makes a big difference. You basically have a 212 Bassbreaker 15.
@@imacashew. I assumed you were talking about the BB15 combo, yeah?
Even with my Amazon PC speakers, I can really hear the difference with the larger cabs. Not so much when it is clean, but once you engage the pedals. Good to know that a lower wattage amp can power big cabs. Thank you!
Great Video! I have a bassbreaker 15 and wondered what a external cab would sound like, now I know. Very cool, Nice work!
Fab! Thank you... Drop D around 34mins on the 1x12 phenomenal!!! Cleans on the 4x12 piqued the curiosity, reaches for the wallet, eek!!! Matt.
For the record, the Z.Vex Nano Head is a one-half watt amplifier.
I’m currently running my Fuchs ODS into a 2x8 cab! 1970s vintage Jensens and it slays.
This video instantly lit a bulb as soon as the video ended I plugged the class5 into the 4x12 and blew my own mind, haven’t played with that much heart in years, you guys are the best just absolutely amazing, there hasn’t been an episode that hasn’t taught me something, the inspiration and bump in motivation to get hands on the tele that comes from your show cannot be summed into words. Thank you so much for what you do, you guys are incredible, keep up the great work! What are the chances of seeing a Vase?
This is already one of my favorite TPS episodes. Speakers and cabinets are endlessly fascinating and there are so many variables at play.
I really learned to love 1x12" combo amps after I started cranking my Carr Rambler to 10. I plug an Esquire straight in and there's something special about how the speaker and cabinet take the full power of the amp and spread it through the room. It sounds really balanced to me no matter where I am on stage and I never have trouble hearing myself anymore. I tend to work completely off of stage volume with no guitar in my monitors at all. So simple and I get everything from my Esquire's volume control and my pick attack.
I like combos because I'm an insane person that likes how it sounds with the chasis inside the cab, but I LOVE hooking an extension to my Suhr Bella. Has such a difference in sound on stage, its a beautiful thing. Would you consider throwing Dan's AC30 through the same paces for a little one off (heck all your guys amps) for indulgent fun?
Please to this!
I third the motion!
Great video. Thanks Mick and Dan. That was super helpful. It reinforces a conclusion I reached a few years ago, that different combinations of cabs with my favourite heads gives me all the variation I need. With a mix of 1x12 and 2x12 cabs loaded with various Celestion and Electrovoice speakers I have most bases covered. I still miss my dear old 4x12, but that went to the great gig in the sky some time ago.
So far ( 4 mins in) so good. Any chance you can do something similar with 2x10”, 4x10” and 15” cabs? A big ask, but here’s hoping,
Are you referring to bass cabs or guitar cabs?
I think a better comparison would be just between 10" 12" 15" speakers to see how they compare to get better perceived volume and also how the speaker affects highs, lows & mid range
Yeah, guitar cabs, & yes, comparing the tonal characteristics, perceived volume, etc. In the far distant recesses of my mind was a review in Guitarist mag many years ago by Eddie Allen of the Peavey Classic 50 head with a full stack made up of a 4x10 cab on top, and a 1x15 at the bottom. That set up intrigued me, as does kit like the 1x15 Fender Excelsior (?) combo. Not enough to try & play through one as yet, mind ...
@@horsehead But there's already comparisons on that... Generally you'll just get a "thicker" sound with larger speakers, almost a similar effect to having a bigger cabinet with more speakers. - The larger speakers tend to have a "duller" higher end (and of course beefier lower end) and pretty much the other way around for the smaller speakers. - What also matter is the size of the voice coil and probably the magnet-size/weight, which will all be variables. - That's also why the "experiment" in this video isn't really done right, because they have massively different speakers and cabinets. - A different speaker in that 1x12" combo could've made it a lot "bigger" or louder (also if the cabinet were larger), the same for different speakers in the Victory cab, if they weren't Creambacks (or whatever they are) they might have sounded as grand as the Marshall 4x12". - I know you wanna see it in this show, but I've already told you the results because you can already find them.
And of course, a disclaimer; It also depends on the room, positioning, the back of the cabinet, and so on and so forth.
@Chris Drake It is exceedingly difficult to find otherwise-similar guitar speakers in 10″, 12″, and 15″ diameters. That is partly due to the nature of speaker manufacturing and partly due to the nature of the market: people shopping for certain sizes of speakers tend to have distinct sounds in mind, which is also true of cabinet form factors within a given speaker diameter; when was the last time you saw a commercial 4x12 loaded with Celestion Blues, for example?
two tiny cabs 1X12" on the right side and on the left 2 ore 3 meters from each other, with different speakers (like a creamback on the left and a Jensen Alnico on the right) connected with a cab merger and a little amp. That sounds great for me.
Friday, drinking only good coffee, playing guitar, blasting the car stereo with any good rock era 60´s,70´s (singing optional but outside the birds explode in mid air when I sing)..... and That Pedal Show.
I have one big request: I have found that some Overdrives can be percussive, meaning they enhance the initial attack sound of string notes and other Overdrives have a mild low mids and mid mids tonality that make them feel like rock and roll butter and others have nice overtones that are good for fast lead or rhythm playing. I PROPOSE that you guys figure out a new overdrive tone classification menu, for showing on a couple episodes.
You have the experience and gear to make it happen. Some OD pedals have their pros and cons. For example the Phat Mod by Keeley is based on a famous pedal, and the Phat Mod to my ears has a wonderful percussive and note separation above other pedals.
Hope u guys find it worthy to investigate.
No sex can even come close to that, if it where the other way around, there would be almost no musicians creating or fans listening.
Sex would win over. But in this reality realm: Music is the unbeatable champion in providing happy years and camaraderie.
Live long and Prosper.
i
That Pedal Show continues to be the most informative guitar gear channel on youtube. Thanks for another great episode!
What I'm hearing is the 4x12 sounds more scooped with less mids. I actually prefer the 1x12 through my headphones. It sounds more focused. That being said if I was in the room I might have a different opinion.
But when you record it, your assessment will be the correct one
I have done bass gigs around town with my Mesa Walkabout 12 combo, StingRay Bass in a Warwick Rockbag, Boss BCB-3 pedalboard and my cable bag on a collapsible hand truck, with my handbag over my shoulder. If I only have a few blocks to go from my flat to the venue, it works perfectly.
Honestly the 1x12 is really the one that does it for me.. I feel like there’s a scoop going on in the mids especially in the 4x12. I’m in no doubt that the 4x12 sounds waaay better in the room, but when you’re sitting on the other side of TH-cam.. the smallest one rocks the house ❤️
I think the single coil guitar sounds best on 112.
24:00 Question on why is it louder.
In the early 2000’s I was into car audio. I believe you used to expect between +3-4db by doubling the surface area of the subs. I’d expect it to be the same on a guitar cab?
I still remember when I had my tele/strat, jcm 800, a boss chorus, reverb and delay in front and that was pretty much it. Even then I thought I was ostentatious. Ah, Australia in the '80s.
Great video guys, a couple things I'm surmising:
- speakers are to playing live what tires are to racing (equation percentage wise)?
- the speakers through the mics are one reference point and yield one comparison - e.g. I really like the 1x12 mic'd, but I'm guessing I wouldn't prefer it in the room
- the speakers in the room with stereo EAR Mics mounted within the head of the player yields another comparison
- mic'd cabs are only ever going to be heard (felt) by studio monitors, home/car speakers, headphones, or PA setups
- cabinets provide double duty...they provide a flavored mic of the source for FOH and they provide a monitor/feedback-loop for the player in the space
- we should consider all factors when thinking about your amp cab setup, how does it sound mic'd and how does it sound in the room
- yes you can make a small combo sound bigger with diff speakers, it makes a surprisingly huge diff to many factors
it makes me wonder what you could do in the room to "capture" the feel of the player perspective - would binaural work there? maybe do more player perspective room mics to show the delta?
great stuff as always!!
Next trip to the US, stop by my hometown of kokomo Indiana and visit Weber Speakers and pick up a few different types of speakers and make a fun day of it. Haha.
Ted Weber is to speakers as Analogman is to fuzz, there’s very few people that have the passion to dive down those rabbit holes and come out with things that rival if not beat the originals like Ted Weber and Mike Piera
Too relatable! getting told to turn down when you can't even hear your amp in the context of the band is all too common right now. people have become afraid of volume. I know and agree that band balance is vital, but i wish people would remember that raw volume and feeling the sound hit you is half the fun of a show ! do people think fugazi was anywhere near quite? haha
Are we ever going to see Simon on camera? He definitely seems to have opinions when it comes to the gear, the pedals, and the playing, I would like to get a chance to hear some of his noodle-ings. Keep up to great videos. Btw I love your tangents and long videos.
If I recall correctly, Simon was briefly pictured in this episode of TPS:
th-cam.com/video/WaCF4DXZbZY/w-d-xo.html
Idk what it was but the Marshall cab made the fender amp sound more like a Marshall. It had that very direct and in your face mid range which I found surprising.
Hi guys I run a 1X10 combo with 1X12 extension cab live. This seems to retain the punchiness of the 1X10 together with the depth of the 1X12 and of course is much louder than the 1x10 on its own. This works for me, but in general are there any reasons not to run different sized speakers together?
The primary reason not to run mixed cabs is comb filtering, though you might like the result of such filtering. The same is true of blending speakers of identical diameter, by the way.
Once had a sound guy with a ton of equipment but couldn't figure out how to get a mic on the guitar amp. So, I had to crank the amp up to be heard solely from the amp alone. Having a Marshall 4x12 and a 50watt tube head helped in that situation.
Hey guys, love everything you do. Are you gonna get the Dark World reverb by chase bliss in soon?
That's why I watch your show on a tv instead of my phone now adays! Love this channel your last pick n mix is my current favorite !
Dan, I had a similar experience with Bon Iver as you did with Springsteen. I just couldn't understand the hype. Then I saw him/them live ... Boom! Lost my trousers.
Poisonthesalt exactly the same here! At the Hammersmith Apollo.
I had the same experience with Bruce Springsteen. In 1978 (not a typo), my freshman year in college, guy in the room next door offered me one of his tickets for the Bruce show on campus. I was “meh” on Bruce, and almost said no. Decided to go, turned out they were 10th row center seats, and Bruce played for four hours and burned the house down. I was an instant convert.
Mick playing the "Oh Well" riff w Dan's LP was the most natural thing what I saw in a while! Absolute chills. Well done Mick! And get a LP please ;D
@@ThatPedalShow Ask Dan how much, haha. Or I like Seth Baccus stuff, he is UK based I think.
I mean in the riff, a knocking noise. Greeny had it too. I would like a nice gold too maybe. But I struggle playing them tbh
So it's Friday morning Two Johnnie Walker Gold Label Reserve | Scotch Whisky's in and I will testify that a 4x12 cab is always the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the comment Mick makes regarding the feeling of compression and whether it's down to the open backed cab vs closed back. I made my Marshall 1936 cab into a convertable backed cab and can definitely relate to that when I have it (semi) open backed vs closed back - and that's at the same volume with the same guitar and the same amp and the same speakers etc. The only difference being whether a piece of wood is closing a gap in the back or not. Definitely more bass response and more directional sound as well with the closed back, but I prefer the spongier feel with the open back.
Mick really got it going with the Les Paul! That guitar needs more time on the show though, it's gorgeous and sounds amazing.
I love this show. Finding less time these days to actually sit down with headphones and absorb it properly, but that's a direct result of spending more time with my own gear. Thanks guys!
I want to see you guys using the Bassbreaker 45! :) Please? Can you?
I too have a Bassbreaker 45 and would love to see you guys get some tones out of it! I've started using my BB45 as a dry amp that compresses a little bit when you play hard. I use a Fender Super 112, 60 watt amp as the wet amp because it has loads of headroom and is so bass heavy compared to the BB45 that has so much mid range!
I love mine, even though it's so loud that I've struggled to get it past what must be about 5w on it's 1 to 45w master output knob.
I use a Weber Mass to tame my BB45 even on the “1 watt” power scale setting. Would love to see one on the show. I think it could give the Hiwatt some SPL competition!
Keeping looking for one of those. Weber seemed to have a supply problem last I looked. I'd just get Fryette Power Station something but $$$.
EDIT: Never mind, they're back now.
Note: The lower output from the attenuator changes much of what I love about the BB45. It has less headroom, fullness and clarity.
I've recorded massive doom sounds through a low gain 5W tube amp. I mic up a massive 2x12" bass cab with a ribbon close up and a condenser in the room.
This amp is small, and the ones back there are far away.
Am a total fan of those green backs and have a 1976 4x12 of them...they are the real thing each time..whatever head or combo I feed them...speakers speak for themselves...50% of the sound...i agree !
I love your Silver Sky Mick!!!!
It’s not mine - just on loan, and it’s gone to its next home now. It was good while it lasted!
Thats a damn shame, she is a beaut.
Dan, your story about getting your first 4 x 12 reminds me of many years ago when my wife and I went into a music store and I ended up purchasing a Soldano 50 watt half stack. Anyway, we were driving in a little Toyota Paseo and I had to crouch in the back with the 4 x 12 cabinet on the ride home. So, I totally understand what you were going through Dan.
@24:00 "Why is the 4x12 louder?". Mick's explanation may be partly the cause, different speakers, different sensitivity and transient response may be perceived as "louder. However it's more likely to be the acoustic coupling in a 4x12 that does not exist in a 1x12. 2 identical acoustic sources will sum at +3db vs a single source and 4 will sum at +3db vs 2. So the 4x12 will be +6db louder than the 1x12 just because of acoustic summation .
Good shout, Philip! I wrote a more complete explanation of this, myself.
Hey @Logan 5 Electrically you are correct, but this is not electrical it is acoustic. A 3db summation occurs when (mostly) identical acoustic sources couple. This is why choirs sound louder than quartets. It's not that the singers in the choir are all singing louder, it's the summation of identical acoustic sources making the whole louder. You can also try this by running a mono track to a L/R speaker system an then unplugging one of the speakers. The db drop you hear is roughly 3db.
Also, I should clarify I am quoting dbSPL (acoustic energy) not dbV (electrical energy). I apologize for the confusion.
@@philipvanpeborgh9273 I think you're missing Logan 5's point: each of the 4 speakers in the 4x12 cab will NOT be running at the same power (or producing the same volume) as the individual speaker in the 1x12. Your choir analogy is incorrect; It's actually more like comparing the volume of one person talking vs. four people WHISPERING. Most 4x12's are wired as a series/parallel array so the entire circuit has the same impedance as one speaker. The amp would deliver the same current and power to either the 4x12 or the 1x12 (assuming all the speakers are identical). Each speaker in the 4x12 would see only half the total current and therefore be dissipating only 25% of the power supplied by the amp. Compare that to the 1x12 speaker which dissipates all of it. I think the perceived volume bump is due to the coupling, and the better dispersion in the room. Also don't forget closed- vs. open-back cab and the bass response. That makes a huge difference. But as for me, I like a combo amp I can carry in one hand!
It may have been last minute, but it was very informative...also confirms that getting my vertical 2x12's in closed back was the right decision!
thank fuzz it's friday!
New t-shirt right there! 👍🤘
After using different 2x12 cabs I currently stick to a ported 1x12 cab with a Celestion V30 which sounds really big, cuts through on stage and is very portable. For sure I won't lug around a 4x12 anymore. A good ported 1x12 cab is enough if the cab is miked, unless you play arena's. Great episode guys. And two Faux Fenders, love it!
So, now my TPS-approved gigging rig is guitar, pedal board, two amp heads or combos and two 4X12 cabinets for a WET:DRY set up....
Oh, wait, we're now going WET:DRY:WET, right?
I'm going to need a bigger boat....
What I learned today was that each amp in the wet/dry/wet rig needs to run through a 4x12 and and a 2x12 in parallel.
That first piece sounded heavenly.
7:34 LOL! I've got my 4x12! I've got no gigs........
Call me crazy. I'm listening through good speakers with a woofer and this sounds great. You guys sure know how to find the sweet spot in a pedal!
You realy need to try the AC10 on the Vox 2x12 Alnico Blue and comoare it to the real deal... And please, bring an AC30S1 in the show! :)
Here I amp picturing dan getting told to turn down while Mick stays quiet with a cheeky smile blasting away.