Still puzzles me how can Marshall still ignore you. They should sponsor or collaborate with you. You are promoting their amps more than their emerging artists. You are educating people on how to find their tone. Most importantly, you are keeping the flame alive for many guitar players. Like always, I adore your videos. Cheers Johan!
Marshall amps sales represents less tha n 10% of their totale revenue. They focus on selling consommer headphones and blutooth speakers now... why would they bother collaborating to promote anything related to guitar since they dont car anymore about that segment of produts
@@juleslacrapule yeah man it is sad to see that... but just like with Gibson: at some point the CEO will change to a person that actually cares about the heritage and loves the old products where it all started from. And then it's back to the roots. We just need to wait a couple of years
@@joapguitar yeah its true but in the case of gibson its even another story since their customer's average age is like 82 years old ,so soon they wont have any customer left. They dont appeal to younger generation because they never had any real strategy to endorse newer players, they keep making the same les paul reissues over and over again ( appart from the supreme line which is gorgeous), and theyre still way overpriced and not that good. And now there are great brands like heritage or maybach thak make better copies for less than gibson, so the only people left buying gibsons are retired lwayers or doctors that cant get past the idea of having a les paul without the gibson logo on it even if it means spending twice the money for a poorly finished guitar. The complete opposite of that would be ibanez who has been absolutely killing it for the past 40 years, always endorsing emerging artists and making new lines of guitar in all styles.
@@juleslacrapule absolutely, I do agree on most of what you are saying. However, I found a used Gibson Custom shop guitar that is truely my all-time favorite rock tone when going straight into a Marshall. That is something that I haven't found in another guitar yet. I played loads of Gibson CS before eventually buying that one and when I need that classic rock tone then I'll grab that overpriced and not perfectly finished guitar ;) I had a couple of other Gibson Les Pauls before that were really embarrassingly bad. So as you say, you have to spend a ton of money and then it is still not sure you find the right one. But I think it improved a bit with the new CEO now.
The obvious conclusion: Everyone should have a Marshall wall. Not only does it sound best, it's also the ultimate home decoration. Thanks again for a well made demo. Really interesting to compare all these parameters. The riff starting at about 9:30 sounds best on the 1X12 (to me), but for all riffs I think it depends on what sound you're after. Great to have this reference when looking for gear.
You should really consider legally changing your name to "Tone Meister". You make watching and listening to what should be a boring explanation turn into something amazing to watch and listen to. Great stuff as usual and the riffage was spot on and enjoyable to listen to throughout. God bless and rock on brother.
The format worked very well in this video with the added clips and all that. Would be very interesting to hear your conclusions at the end too. Thanks for the a1 content.
With output impedance variations the coupling transformer must have an effect, but the higher load of lower impedances will draw more current from the amp, which must make a difference as well.
The sounds on this video that I liked more are the 4x 1x12 cabs compared to the 1x 4x12, and the "both" cabs sounding at the end of the video. Great work !
When you're daisy chaining, it immediately gives it that 60's, 70's kinda Snarl, complex saturation, somewhat phasy depth. It sounds very vintage. So beautiful! Obviously, this is how to used multiple amps back in the day.
Johan, Lyle Caldwell has pointed out that Marshall made a wiring mistake with how they hooked up the negative feedback loop to the output taps. That’s responsible for the difference of tone between a 4 ohm and 16 ohm cabinet. The wiring can be fixed.
@schmolly75 exactly! And when you make the change the difference between a 4 ohm and a 16 ohm cabinet, albeit still will be different for other reasons - but will only be heard by the most snobby cork sniffing.
@@hungry4des I haven’t seen all Marshall’s to know either way, just a common Mistake they did back in the day. Easy way to figure out is if there is a big tone difference between a 4 ohm and 16 ohm cabinet on your amplifier, figure out which you like better, and bring it in to an amplifier technician to fix, and tell him your preference.
In my car listening I like the 412 best . It has the honk and articulation that are ever so slightly lacking in the wall and single cab. The room has such an effect on listening income to find out more and more. If I was in a room full of people I would want the wall to push through. Where jamming and studio work the other two would be just fine. Love it. Keep up the excellent work brother!
I could watch your videos all day! First, I love listening to you talk, it's extremely soothing. Second, the passion for GREAT gear aligns with my same passion for the same gear. Amazing, talented, and INFORMATIVE videos which I look forward to watching!
great demo on mutual coupling and how it effects tone, well done, Johan. I do have a Marshall 1912 cab as well as an Avatar 1x12, will definitely consider trying different combinations when recording and consider the mutual coupling. Thanks for the great content and comparison, but as usual to me, nothing beats the 4x12! Stay safe!
A little while ago, Keith Richards said he preferred smaller amps in the studio because he felt they sounded bigger. Thanks for demonstrating why that is.
Super wombat sweet video flick. I have a '79 JMP 2204 sitting on top of a 1960 B cab with g12m greenies. All my Gibson guitars have p90's and all sound like she wolves in heat howling at midnight in front of a house burning down. The sound of your LP straight up into the 2204 and 4x12 cab is panty dropping tone! Mahalo!
I have a big, oversized 2x12 closed back cab that actually gets a lot of the 4x12 sound. It sounds huge so I’ve always figured the cab size was at least part of the reason a 4x12 sounds like they do. I love the deep, full tone without having the weight of a 4x12.
Another point is that the baffle makes a lot of difference, if you mount the speakers on same baffle, they interact much more due vibration. The thicker the baffle, less interaction and more round is the sound, the thinner is the baffle brighter is the sound. I make amps for myself and thats a really important factor as long as the cabinet material. Fender uses high ressonance wood(pine) with very thin composite baffle, getting those bright slapping sounds, not to mention they are open back cabinets. For high fidelity sound Brands tend tho use thicker MDF that do not influence the sound, but for us guitarrist we want a wood that ressonates and defines our tones..
@@4968ace I think it does for acoustic instruments, but not necessarily a speaker cabinet. At least not in any way that can be measured or picked out in a blind test through a compressed internet video. My guess is that cab size, open or closed back, speakers, pickups, room size, etc etc etc (not to mention the player most of all factors) have much more effect than whether it’s pine or birch or even mdf. My opinion.
@@4968ace physics exists, ressonance are different between woods, the thickness of the cabinet does influence, the openback does influence, a thin loose baffle does influence, as the speaker set. Im not saying that changing only one aspect will change your tone, but a conbination will. Sound is not black magic, you can clearly taylor your tone. Havent ever asked yourself why marshall cabinets use common "multilayer" wood (plywood?) instead of more rare ones? I can hear difference between cabinets as long as i stay in front of them, recordings will never get you the real felling, because you dont know what was used in the process. If you talking about the woods from a guitar body(a solid one, not acustic), i know it influences almost nothing in the sound.
As always, thank you so much for bringing a well executed test to all our ears. Lots of work and passion behind this. I loved the nuance of the "both" 1x12 & 4x12 mode. Johan, was it just the speaker mics together, or as you mention, did the room mic get involved at that point ?
Thanks Stephane, glad to hear that! And you you’re correct that the room mic was only mixed in (panned right) when both cabs were combined otherwise only the close mic was engaged. Cheers!
Johan, thanks as always for the vids. This one was great. I switched from a 1x12 several years ago to a 4x12, and while my volume hasn't gotten insane (by choice), I've been much happier with my overall sound, which is most definitely influenced by some of these 70s tones. You've helped guide me toward rig choices that I'm really happy with. I suggested it on the live chat, but it'd be cool if you did an evaluation of the newer Fane Speakers (F70 and F90), and maybe the Reeves Purples. I have been pretty knocked out by the sound samples. Something a bit different than the ubiquitous V30. I'm sure they don't compare to the ol' Greenbacks, but I've heard that some of the old Fane workers are still there, still doing their thing. : )
Hi, Johan! Actually 12/2 sounds good enough to be used in the hard- rock songs. I was very surprised when I heard it. Very interesting and fun! See you! Zigfrid
Super cool! You are amazing at all these crazy idea. Love the dual depth 4x12. I stole your trademark into for my last video, hope you don’t mind. Played a kiss clip to help make it ok. :)
Great demonstrations. It's cool to know that a 4x12 and a 1x12 sound good together. I have a spare 12" Vintage 30 which I'm going to build a cab for (likely used mostly with a DSL401)...I think sometimes I will use it with my G12M 4x12 and my '78 JMP 2203. Beefy! :)
amazing insight. This is guitar tone science. Thank you. The 4x12 tone is to die for. Best I can use is a 1x12, but it's not too bad, the 1x12 is better for rock than for metal, I guess, though the 4x12 of course can do anything, and much better. That growl is so characteristic. Amazing stuff.
I am really surprised how good the1×12 sounds with open back. I think it is an open back. Much fuller sounding than the 4×12, and the 4×12 sounds on the thin side. Damn good demo.😀
Hello Johan , I Agree with Ken Gevers, I' m surprised that lately I prefer 1x12" ( semi)open back cabs, and the one in the video is Amazing, It stands up against the 4x12" with ease! Anyway the 4x12" sound is a Classic, cheers!
Agreed the 1x12 sounded stellar. That particular speaker has a lot to do with it, but I have always loved recording with an open back 1x 12. A trick to getting big sounding guitars on recording is to double track using one open and one closed back cab.
Whoa, mutual coupling, I Iearned a new thing today! In my AVT412 Marshall cab, the speakers are closer together than conventional 412s, maybe that's partly why it sounds really dark. Loved this video. Cheers.
fascinating! will have to look up some cabs with odd speaker sizes an spatial considerations that take advantage of mutual coupling. would be interesting to take some speakers of various sizes on a grid backing where they can easily be clipped in and moved around and see what we get.
4 Ohm or 16 Ohm wired 4x12 act differently for a few reasons. One is output transformer. Though other is that in 4 Ohm wiring voice coils affect each other differently. Namely there are no voice coils in series hence their inductance does not work as a filter on next in line voice coil. Also 4 Ohm requires more current but even more importantly it inductance more current that must be absorbed by the amp. It requires two times higher damping factor of the amp. Tube amps do not have high damping factor and they do not like lot of current coming back to them. That's why in home hifi tube amplifiers one does not have great results with speakers that have big voice coils. Add wired things that happens with complicated crossovers and you will see that some big speaker especially 4 way and higher will sound immense and great on the transistor based amp and will sound awful on tube amps. While some smaller one or two way speaker will sound awesome on the same amp. Most of the amps handle 16 Ohm wiring good. 4 Ohm is way harder. Also every output transformer is different. Lot of the Fender output transformers sound best on 8 Ohm and some even have only 8 Ohm output. Other Fender amps have only 2 Ohm output and are designed to sound goid with that output. Marshall amps tend to sound best with 16 Ohms. Different output transformers and different designs. Anyways end result is same 4 Ohm and 16 Ohm wiring sounds different and it is complex thing that happens there. Main thing is what you like. Just use how it sound better for you minding that you match your amp with the 4 Ohm load or you will not enjoy new sound for long.
Back in a day when I was deciding to buy orange 4x12 or 2x12..internet was very specific 4x12 is the only way..just not MOBILE! One guy said 'I sold it and bought 2x12 for mobility and never got that sound'. So I grabbed 4x12 and lord what sound it was..definitely NOT MOBILE THO! But never crossed my mind to stuff it with pillows!:) Great tests today, and riffage..was most overwhelmed with the combination of 1x12 with 4x12. Great stuff Cheers, man
"It just sounds big"... no kidding. Standing in front of three full stacks is the dream. I wonder if any current musician with the exception of perhaps AC/DC and Metallica still gets to do that.
I think the 12 inch speaker is the perfect guitar speaker size no matter what cabinet you put it in… Love your show John, I love Geeking Out on guitar shit and yes I’m a Marshall kind of guy… Keep on rockin
Very interesting about running 4 cabs of 1X12, cool sound :) Actually, John Petrucci is using 1X12 Mesa Cabs in studio for recording, and it sounds awesome, so I guess it's about finding the right combination of mics when recording. Also I noticed, you're using different mics at the end when comparing 4X12 with 1X12. That's one good reason for a huge difference in tone. Second, the difference could be from the speakers, since there are different speakers in the cabinets. Not saying there isn't a difference between 4X12 vs 1X12, but the tests should be consistent to show from where this difference comes .
Thanks! Yeah it’s hard to be consistent comparing 412 to 112. Here I didn’t have two mics of the same model since I played them at the same time. I use the same mic in these two: In this video I play the 50W Marshall at full volume and use a speaker that can take it in the 112 th-cam.com/video/MmdV8AfTPJg/w-d-xo.html In this video I use an attenuator and the same speaker G12H30 in both cabs th-cam.com/video/dCEeLv8Cio8/w-d-xo.html
@@JohanSegebornI know it's difficult to keep everything consistent. Also, I read an explanation on Hughes and Kettner blog about how sound changes when is a difference in impedance. And it's exactly what you describe here, the sound becomes more scooped. For anyone interested, the whole explanation here blog.hughes-and-kettner.com/ohm-cooking-101-understanding-amps-speakers-and-impedance/ Cheers. Mike :)
Hi Johan - really enjoyed your video. With the observation that the mutual coupling effect makes a big difference it is nonetheless fascinating to know more about how the 'cabinet air' affects the tone. Would love to see one day what the results would be like for: 1. A single 12" speaker in a 4x12 cabinet vs. 4 x 12" speakers in a 4x12 cabinet (maybe also 2 x 12" speakers in a 4x12 cabinet). The 1x12" cab has much less cabinet space so I wonder what the space in a 4x12 cab would sound like on a single wired speaker. 2. For greater mutual coupling effect, imagine a mad scientist designing a 3x3 cab and miking the centre speaker. The question arises of whether a speaker in a 4x12 cab is affected by mutual coupling by the speaker beside it and the speaker below it (if the top left speaker is selected for example)?
Gotta say, the 1x12" makes the treble side of things much more pleasant. I'd play darker guitars and lossy chains into 4x12" happily. For leads 1x12" and for deep rhythms 4x12" would be a nice setup. But the combination is the sweet spot, complementing each other's short-comings.
ah, A sennheiser 609 sounds way different than what looks to be a shure 57 or a variant. I do not see how this can be valid without the same mics. And I've mixed FOH for 40 years btw. regards, chris
I had an 8ohm creamback m65 and while I loved the clean tone i hated the overdriven sound I thought it was truly awful but now I have a 16 ohm creamback m65 and I love the overdriven as well as the clean . The 8hm was a dull muddy mess when overdriven .
I've grown to really like 1 12 open back cabs. In the last few years. I've had 4 12s but mostly used 2 12 combos over the years. Pretty much until I tried a bassbreaker 30 and a pros sonzera (the sonzera was undeliable)
Thanks Johan...The boxes are part of the equation...Speaker choice is far more varied...T70 sounds sweeter and crunchier than T75 but Greenbacks are creamiest...Alnico blue is very distinctive with pronounced mids and highs...also single, twin n quad birch boxes bring in so many flavors...it never ends(luckily) Take them all if ya get the chance !!!
Jag hade en 30 tums Electro voice med bafflar bak, vilket ljud men tungt och bära på, har sökt på nätet vart den tog vägen, men inte lyckats hitta den igen! Annars föredrar jag 2x12, 1x12 och 4x12 beror på sammanhanget, här låter 4x12 mkt bra, kul att Du tar upp det här!
Hej Johan! Dave Friedman och Mark Huzanski verkar vara intresserade av att intervjua dig i sin podcast ”Tone Talk”, Mark nämnde för några dagar sedan i avsnittet med Dweezil Zappa att de kommer söka dig för deltagande 🤩 tack för intressanta videos!
Great video! I liked the 4x12 in almost every instance except the last demo. I am curious if the 4x12 is a larger difference in the room than on the video as the mic was extremely biased to the lower left speaker and did not pick up combined speaker effect equally.
If you use a solid state amp (pure voltage), it will pour (as much as) four times the wattage into 4 ohms as 16 ohms at the same output level. There will be a big difference with solid-state, which doesn't have an output trafo at all (let alone a multi-tapped one) to level the impedance difference.
I loved it, thank you! but @ 7:38 we are also hearing H magnet compared to M magnet no? I'm hearing a lot of difference in some simply from the T1281 to the T1221. Cheers. :)
I heard a demo of a 4-12 cabinet versus a 1-12. The single speaker sounded deeper as well as brighter. The 4-12 sounded dull and muffled by comparison. I was very surprised.
I like to run a few amps in parallel, and the bedroom has been getting pretty crowded. Anything that can push eight Ohms I am hooking up to an EVM, Black Label if it is over a hundred Watts. I still have a wall going, tunnel perhaps.
Great video! love the info, now at the end you used a sen609? on the 1x12 and a 57 on the 4x12, that change alone will also give quite a difference in tone as well. Would love to see the comparison using the same mic though. 1 x 12 has a real tight focused sound, 4 x 12 sound wide and big
Whoa Johan wow at the beginning the BLACK BEAUTY YOU sounded like Toni Iommi..that thing got P A.F.s???? Eh...ill stay with 2x12 100 watt..the 4x12 you played through the 2204 I LOVE IT.. GOOD JOB. CHEERS!!!!!!
Any coupling contribution from multiple speakers is only heard in the room at some distance from an individual speaker. A microphone 1” from a single cone is completely unaffected by the coupling of other speakers.
I know this is an older video, but that tone at 3:18 is INSANE. What did you do to that Marshall to make it absolutely ignite like that? (Other than doubling the depth of course)
My favorite part is when Johan says. "Let's go"! You know your going to be in for a treat!
Thanks my friend, great to hear that!
Time to plug in the Maaaaarrrrshell
Still puzzles me how can Marshall still ignore you. They should sponsor or collaborate with you. You are promoting their amps more than their emerging artists. You are educating people on how to find their tone. Most importantly, you are keeping the flame alive for many guitar players.
Like always, I adore your videos. Cheers Johan!
Marshall amps sales represents less tha n 10% of their totale revenue. They focus on selling consommer headphones and blutooth speakers now... why would they bother collaborating to promote anything related to guitar since they dont car anymore about that segment of produts
@@juleslacrapule yeah man it is sad to see that... but just like with Gibson: at some point the CEO will change to a person that actually cares about the heritage and loves the old products where it all started from. And then it's back to the roots. We just need to wait a couple of years
@@joapguitar yeah its true but in the case of gibson its even another story since their customer's average age is like 82 years old ,so soon they wont have any customer left. They dont appeal to younger generation because they never had any real strategy to endorse newer players, they keep making the same les paul reissues over and over again ( appart from the supreme line which is gorgeous), and theyre still way overpriced and not that good. And now there are great brands like heritage or maybach thak make better copies for less than gibson, so the only people left buying gibsons are retired lwayers or doctors that cant get past the idea of having a les paul without the gibson logo on it even if it means spending twice the money for a poorly finished guitar. The complete opposite of that would be ibanez who has been absolutely killing it for the past 40 years, always endorsing emerging artists and making new lines of guitar in all styles.
@@juleslacrapule absolutely, I do agree on most of what you are saying. However, I found a used Gibson Custom shop guitar that is truely my all-time favorite rock tone when going straight into a Marshall. That is something that I haven't found in another guitar yet. I played loads of Gibson CS before eventually buying that one and when I need that classic rock tone then I'll grab that overpriced and not perfectly finished guitar ;)
I had a couple of other Gibson Les Pauls before that were really embarrassingly bad. So as you say, you have to spend a ton of money and then it is still not sure you find the right one. But I think it improved a bit with the new CEO now.
@@joapguitar Yes of course i was exagerating :)
The obvious conclusion: Everyone should have a Marshall wall. Not only does it sound best, it's also the ultimate home decoration.
Thanks again for a well made demo. Really interesting to compare all these parameters. The riff starting at about 9:30 sounds best on the 1X12 (to me), but for all riffs I think it depends on what sound you're after. Great to have this reference when looking for gear.
Thanks Bengt! 😉 glad to hear that!
Agreed.
God made Johan, Johan made this channel, this channel restored the passion for playing the guitar !!!
Thanks my friend, that’s very kind of you!
Completely agree
if you say so
You should really consider legally changing your name to "Tone Meister". You make watching and listening to what should be a boring explanation turn into something amazing to watch and listen to. Great stuff as usual and the riffage was spot on and enjoyable to listen to throughout. God bless and rock on brother.
Thanks my friend, it’s great to hear that! Rock on!
Marshall Meister
The format worked very well in this video with the added clips and all that. Would be very interesting to hear your conclusions at the end too. Thanks for the a1 content.
Thanks, glad to hear it!
With output impedance variations the coupling transformer must have an effect, but the higher load of lower impedances will draw more current from the amp, which must make a difference as well.
The sounds on this video that I liked more are the 4x 1x12 cabs compared to the 1x 4x12, and the "both" cabs sounding at the end of the video. Great work !
The Carl Segan of guitar tone! Fantastic. This channel entertains, and informs, on so many different levels. Best content anywhere!
Thanks, I’m so glad to hear that!
The soundtrack behind that “mutual coupling” video made me feel like I was learning some other-worldly type science!
Cheers!! ;-)
I really enjoyed this one mate. Very few of us could have so much gear to test all these, and you simply put them in a video.
Thumbs up!
Thanks, great to hear that!
Just bloody brilliant Johan - pure brilliant! You always make me smile so much 👏🙌
Thanks Stephen, glad to hear it!
I was surprised at how much I like the 1x12 tone.
Yeah so much of this tone is in the vintage Greenbacks, so all you need is one to get a great tone with most amps
Thank you for your awesome videos!
You have a very nice style to make these videos, keep rocking!!
Man, this is some great content. Where the hell else are you going to see someone trying this kind of stuff?!?!
When you're daisy chaining, it immediately gives it that 60's, 70's kinda Snarl, complex saturation, somewhat phasy depth. It sounds very vintage. So beautiful! Obviously, this is how to used multiple amps back in the day.
Such an informative video! Loved the different sounds and especially the explanations you gave. Really great stuff to get people experimenting!
Thanks, it’s great to hear that!
Johan, Lyle Caldwell has pointed out that Marshall made a wiring mistake with how they hooked up the negative feedback loop to the output taps. That’s responsible for the difference of tone between a 4 ohm and 16 ohm cabinet. The wiring can be fixed.
Thanks, very interesting!!
@schmolly75 exactly! And when you make the change the difference between a 4 ohm and a 16 ohm cabinet, albeit still will be different for other reasons - but will only be heard by the most snobby cork sniffing.
I smell another video
Is this mistake only on certain amps or all Marshalls?
@@hungry4des I haven’t seen all Marshall’s to know either way, just a common Mistake they did back in the day. Easy way to figure out is if there is a big tone difference between a 4 ohm and 16 ohm cabinet on your amplifier, figure out which you like better, and bring it in to an amplifier technician to fix, and tell him your preference.
In my car listening I like the 412 best . It has the honk and articulation that are ever so slightly lacking in the wall and single cab. The room has such an effect on listening income to find out more and more. If I was in a room full of people I would want the wall to push through. Where jamming and studio work the other two would be just fine. Love it. Keep up the excellent work brother!
I could watch your videos all day! First, I love listening to you talk, it's extremely soothing. Second, the passion for GREAT gear aligns with my same passion for the same gear. Amazing, talented, and INFORMATIVE videos which I look forward to watching!
Man, I have a 4x12 and a 1x12 and I and I am absolutely trying them paired up. That was great.
Thanks, glad to hear it
So good! Johan, I love your way of thinking. This is gold.
great demo on mutual coupling and how it effects tone, well done, Johan. I do have a Marshall 1912 cab as well as an Avatar 1x12, will definitely consider trying different combinations when recording and consider the mutual coupling. Thanks for the great content and comparison, but as usual to me, nothing beats the 4x12! Stay safe!
Always a pleasure to watch your video, man! You deserved many more subs, views and likes. Thank you, Johan!! 🙌🏿🙌🏿
A little while ago, Keith Richards said he preferred smaller amps in the studio because he felt they sounded bigger. Thanks for demonstrating why that is.
Super wombat sweet video flick. I have a '79 JMP 2204 sitting on top of a 1960 B cab with g12m greenies. All my Gibson guitars have p90's and all sound like she wolves in heat howling at midnight in front of a house burning down. The sound of your LP straight up into the 2204 and 4x12 cab is panty dropping tone! Mahalo!
I have a big, oversized 2x12 closed back cab that actually gets a lot of the 4x12 sound. It sounds huge so I’ve always figured the cab size was at least part of the reason a 4x12 sounds like they do. I love the deep, full tone without having the weight of a 4x12.
It also makes a big difference.
Another point is that the baffle makes a lot of difference, if you mount the speakers on same baffle, they interact much more due vibration. The thicker the baffle, less interaction and more round is the sound, the thinner is the baffle brighter is the sound. I make amps for myself and thats a really important factor as long as the cabinet material. Fender uses high ressonance wood(pine) with very thin composite baffle, getting those bright slapping sounds, not to mention they are open back cabinets. For high fidelity sound Brands tend tho use thicker MDF that do not influence the sound, but for us guitarrist we want a wood that ressonates and defines our tones..
Thanks, great feedback!
Great info, thanks for sharing.
Don’t tell me you also believe in guitar tone woods lol
@@4968ace I think it does for acoustic instruments, but not necessarily a speaker cabinet. At least not in any way that can be measured or picked out in a blind test through a compressed internet video. My guess is that cab size, open or closed back, speakers, pickups, room size, etc etc etc (not to mention the player most of all factors) have much more effect than whether it’s pine or birch or even mdf. My opinion.
@@4968ace physics exists, ressonance are different between woods, the thickness of the cabinet does influence, the openback does influence, a thin loose baffle does influence, as the speaker set. Im not saying that changing only one aspect will change your tone, but a conbination will. Sound is not black magic, you can clearly taylor your tone. Havent ever asked yourself why marshall cabinets use common "multilayer" wood (plywood?) instead of more rare ones? I can hear difference between cabinets as long as i stay in front of them, recordings will never get you the real felling, because you dont know what was used in the process. If you talking about the woods from a guitar body(a solid one, not acustic), i know it influences almost nothing in the sound.
Im all about that 1x12 life now days...Defiantly my go to approach at the tone I'm going after.
As always, thank you so much for bringing a well executed test to all our ears. Lots of work and passion behind this. I loved the nuance of the "both" 1x12 & 4x12 mode.
Johan, was it just the speaker mics together, or as you mention, did the room mic get involved at that point ?
Thanks Stephane, glad to hear that! And you you’re correct that the room mic was only mixed in (panned right) when both cabs were combined otherwise only the close mic was engaged. Cheers!
Johan, thanks as always for the vids. This one was great. I switched from a 1x12 several years ago to a 4x12, and while my volume hasn't gotten insane (by choice), I've been much happier with my overall sound, which is most definitely influenced by some of these 70s tones. You've helped guide me toward rig choices that I'm really happy with.
I suggested it on the live chat, but it'd be cool if you did an evaluation of the newer Fane Speakers (F70 and F90), and maybe the Reeves Purples. I have been pretty knocked out by the sound samples. Something a bit different than the ubiquitous V30. I'm sure they don't compare to the ol' Greenbacks, but I've heard that some of the old Fane workers are still there, still doing their thing. : )
Thanks Chris, great to hear that! I’d be glad to check out the new Fanes. Cheers
Man the two together sounded so smooth... I like the 4x12 cab best very Chucky mid sounding by it's self but,, the two together was my favorite..
Phenomenal work, Johan!
Thanks, glad you like it!
Hi, Johan!
Actually 12/2 sounds good enough to be used in the hard- rock songs. I was very surprised when I heard it. Very interesting and fun! See you!
Zigfrid
Thanks man, Cheers!
Super cool! You are amazing at all these crazy idea. Love the dual depth 4x12. I stole your trademark into for my last video, hope you don’t mind. Played a kiss clip to help make it ok. :)
Great demonstrations. It's cool to know that a 4x12 and a 1x12 sound good together. I have a spare 12" Vintage 30 which I'm going to build a cab for (likely used mostly with a DSL401)...I think sometimes I will use it with my G12M 4x12 and my '78 JMP 2203. Beefy! :)
Thanks Tristan! I love late 70s 2203 and 2204. Cheers
amazing insight. This is guitar tone science. Thank you. The 4x12 tone is to die for. Best I can use is a 1x12, but it's not too bad, the 1x12 is better for rock than for metal, I guess, though the 4x12 of course can do anything, and much better. That growl is so characteristic. Amazing stuff.
I am really surprised how good the1×12 sounds with open back. I think it is an open back. Much fuller sounding than the 4×12, and the 4×12 sounds on the thin side. Damn good demo.😀
Thanks! Yeah it’s open back. Pre 1974 G12H30 55Hz with Pulsonic cones sounds amazing in open back 1x12
I agree. The 1x12 sounded spectacular. 👍
Hello Johan , I Agree with Ken Gevers, I' m surprised that lately I prefer 1x12" ( semi)open back cabs, and the one in the video is Amazing, It stands up against the 4x12" with ease! Anyway the 4x12" sound is a Classic, cheers!
i also prefer the single open back 1x12 it's fuller e middy, 4x12 is more scooped and tinny
Agreed the 1x12 sounded stellar. That particular speaker has a lot to do with it, but I have always loved recording with an open back 1x 12. A trick to getting big sounding guitars on recording is to double track using one open and one closed back cab.
The myth buster of tone.... 🤘
Cheers George! 🤘
Let's go !!! Another great vLog Johan !!!🤟🤟🤟🤟
Whoa, mutual coupling, I Iearned a new thing today! In my AVT412 Marshall cab, the speakers are closer together than conventional 412s, maybe that's partly why it sounds really dark. Loved this video. Cheers.
Glad to hear it! Cheers
Love that last riff!
fascinating! will have to look up some cabs with odd speaker sizes an spatial considerations that take advantage of mutual coupling. would be interesting to take some speakers of various sizes on a grid backing where they can easily be clipped in and moved around and see what we get.
Amazing comparisons you do... Any nerdy thought I could have related to comparisons with Marshalls you've likely already done! Thank you!
Nice to see Heinsenberg playing guitar in Sweden. Nice!
4 Ohm or 16 Ohm wired 4x12 act differently for a few reasons. One is output transformer. Though other is that in 4 Ohm wiring voice coils affect each other differently. Namely there are no voice coils in series hence their inductance does not work as a filter on next in line voice coil. Also 4 Ohm requires more current but even more importantly it inductance more current that must be absorbed by the amp. It requires two times higher damping factor of the amp. Tube amps do not have high damping factor and they do not like lot of current coming back to them. That's why in home hifi tube amplifiers one does not have great results with speakers that have big voice coils. Add wired things that happens with complicated crossovers and you will see that some big speaker especially 4 way and higher will sound immense and great on the transistor based amp and will sound awful on tube amps. While some smaller one or two way speaker will sound awesome on the same amp. Most of the amps handle 16 Ohm wiring good. 4 Ohm is way harder. Also every output transformer is different. Lot of the Fender output transformers sound best on 8 Ohm and some even have only 8 Ohm output. Other Fender amps have only 2 Ohm output and are designed to sound goid with that output. Marshall amps tend to sound best with 16 Ohms. Different output transformers and different designs. Anyways end result is same 4 Ohm and 16 Ohm wiring sounds different and it is complex thing that happens there. Main thing is what you like. Just use how it sound better for you minding that you match your amp with the 4 Ohm load or you will not enjoy new sound for long.
Thanks, great feedback!
Again, speechless and dumbfounded... Congrats, Johan!
Thanks man! Cheers!
Came for the great tones. Stayed for the science!
Thanks Mike! :-)
Back in a day when I was deciding to buy orange 4x12 or 2x12..internet was very specific 4x12 is the only way..just not MOBILE! One guy said 'I sold it and bought 2x12 for mobility and never got that sound'. So I grabbed 4x12 and lord what sound it was..definitely NOT MOBILE THO! But never crossed my mind to stuff it with pillows!:)
Great tests today, and riffage..was most overwhelmed with the combination of 1x12 with 4x12. Great stuff
Cheers, man
A 412 is not much bigger nor much heavier than a 212. Code 412 weight is 24Kg and Code 212 is 20.5Kg.
"It just sounds big"... no kidding. Standing in front of three full stacks is the dream. I wonder if any current musician with the exception of perhaps AC/DC and Metallica still gets to do that.
Really liked the 1x12! Also realised I hadn't been subscribed all this time... whoops!
Glad to hear it!
I like the 1x12 my DSL 20 you recomended is fantastic thanks, now I'll put it closer to my Fender Blues Jr Tweed and try the coupling thing!
I think the 12 inch speaker is the perfect guitar speaker size no matter what cabinet you put it in… Love your show John, I love Geeking Out on guitar shit and yes I’m a Marshall kind of guy… Keep on rockin
Thanks, great to hear that! Rock on!
Very interesting about running 4 cabs of 1X12, cool sound :)
Actually, John Petrucci is using 1X12 Mesa Cabs in studio for recording, and it sounds awesome, so I guess it's about
finding the right combination of mics when recording.
Also I noticed, you're using different mics at the end when comparing 4X12 with 1X12. That's one good reason for a huge difference
in tone. Second, the difference could be from the speakers, since there are different speakers in the cabinets.
Not saying there isn't a difference between 4X12 vs 1X12, but the tests should be consistent to show from where this difference comes .
Thanks! Yeah it’s hard to be consistent comparing 412 to 112. Here I didn’t have two mics of the same model since I played them at the same time.
I use the same mic in these two:
In this video I play the 50W Marshall at full volume and use a speaker that can take it in the 112
th-cam.com/video/MmdV8AfTPJg/w-d-xo.html
In this video I use an attenuator and the same speaker G12H30 in both cabs
th-cam.com/video/dCEeLv8Cio8/w-d-xo.html
@@JohanSegebornI know it's difficult to keep everything consistent.
Also, I read an explanation on Hughes and Kettner blog about how sound changes when is a difference in impedance. And it's exactly what you describe here, the sound becomes more scooped.
For anyone interested, the whole explanation here blog.hughes-and-kettner.com/ohm-cooking-101-understanding-amps-speakers-and-impedance/
Cheers. Mike :)
The 16-ohm sounds more natural to my ear.
Good video Johan.
I can't help but notice the book behind your head titled 'STONER' 🤘🏻🤣
Hahaha! 🍺
Sooooo interesting !! I was wondering exactly this (if 2 cabinets of 1x12 could sound tighter than 1 cabinet of 2x12) Thanks !
I love this stuff!! Sound Science!
Glad to hear it, Cheers!
Hi Johan - really enjoyed your video. With the observation that the mutual coupling effect makes a big difference it is nonetheless fascinating to know more about how the 'cabinet air' affects the tone.
Would love to see one day what the results would be like for:
1. A single 12" speaker in a 4x12 cabinet vs. 4 x 12" speakers in a 4x12 cabinet (maybe also 2 x 12" speakers in a 4x12 cabinet). The 1x12" cab has much less cabinet space so I wonder what the space in a 4x12 cab would sound like on a single wired speaker.
2. For greater mutual coupling effect, imagine a mad scientist designing a 3x3 cab and miking the centre speaker. The question arises of whether a speaker in a 4x12 cab is affected by mutual coupling by the speaker beside it and the speaker below it (if the top left speaker is selected for example)?
Thanks, glad to hear it! I have actually done 1) in these videos:
th-cam.com/video/Aba8WaCz_Dg/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wDN5tMjaq6A/w-d-xo.html
Gotta say, the 1x12" makes the treble side of things much more pleasant. I'd play darker guitars and lossy chains into 4x12" happily. For leads 1x12" and for deep rhythms 4x12" would be a nice setup. But the combination is the sweet spot, complementing each other's short-comings.
Marshall really got their cabinets designed good, retaining marshall sounds in 112 or 412. I like that 112 sound at the end. IMO.
I'd love to see you compare pathfinder 15r w/ Marshall etc, or anything else that cheapo
Great vid as always!
incredible knowlege! thanks for the insights!
1x12 + 4x12 together sounds huger than huge. That's a fantastic doubletracking recipe.
Thanks, great to hear that!
ah, A sennheiser 609 sounds way different than what looks to be a shure 57 or a variant. I do not see how this can be valid without the same mics. And I've mixed FOH for 40 years btw. regards, chris
Johan the mad Marshall professor! Great work Johan. I prefer the 4x12 just sounds bigger and fatter.
"I really liked the sound of the wall" OF COURSE YOU DID MAN 😆😆🤘🤘🤘
Thanks for this video, I asked this question on you Ephiphone JR review,!
Sege-born to rock!!!
Cheers my friend! :-)
I had an 8ohm creamback m65 and while I loved the clean tone i hated the overdriven sound I thought it was truly awful but now I have a 16 ohm creamback m65 and I love the overdriven as well as the clean . The 8hm was a dull muddy mess when overdriven .
I've grown to really like 1 12 open back cabs. In the last few years. I've had 4 12s but mostly used 2 12 combos over the years. Pretty much until I tried a bassbreaker 30 and a pros sonzera (the sonzera was undeliable)
Professional Genius
Johan know's his stuff,... ever video has something that's ALWAY'S good,... he's the best........
Thanks Johan...The boxes are part of the equation...Speaker choice is far more varied...T70 sounds sweeter and crunchier than T75 but Greenbacks are creamiest...Alnico blue is very distinctive with pronounced mids and highs...also single, twin n quad birch boxes bring in so many flavors...it never ends(luckily) Take them all if ya get the chance !!!
Such a cool video.
Thanks man!
Great video!! Love it
Jag hade en 30 tums Electro voice med bafflar bak, vilket ljud men tungt och bära på, har sökt på nätet vart den tog vägen, men inte lyckats hitta den igen! Annars föredrar jag 2x12, 1x12 och 4x12 beror på sammanhanget, här låter 4x12 mkt bra, kul att Du tar upp det här!
Hej Johan! Dave Friedman och Mark Huzanski verkar vara intresserade av att intervjua dig i sin podcast ”Tone Talk”, Mark nämnde för några dagar sedan i avsnittet med Dweezil Zappa att de kommer söka dig för deltagande 🤩 tack för intressanta videos!
Great video! I liked the 4x12 in almost every instance except the last demo. I am curious if the 4x12 is a larger difference in the room than on the video as the mic was extremely biased to the lower left speaker and did not pick up combined speaker effect equally.
when comparing the 1x12 in the open back combo to the closed back 1x12, I like the sound of both best :D
I love the sound of an open back 4x12 with Fender circuits
6:45 Is this your rendition of Pantera’s “Cowboys from Hell”?
Definitely inspired by it! Love Pantera!
@@JohanSegeborn Glad to read that!
If you use a solid state amp (pure voltage), it will pour (as much as) four times the wattage into 4 ohms as 16 ohms at the same output level. There will be a big difference with solid-state, which doesn't have an output trafo at all (let alone a multi-tapped one) to level the impedance difference.
I loved it, thank you! but @ 7:38 we are also hearing H magnet compared to M magnet no? I'm hearing a lot of difference in some simply from the T1281 to the T1221. Cheers. :)
I heard a demo of a 4-12 cabinet versus a 1-12. The single speaker sounded deeper as well as brighter. The 4-12 sounded dull and muffled by comparison. I was very surprised.
I like the 1x12 by itself the best
I like to run a few amps in parallel, and the bedroom has been getting pretty crowded. Anything that can push eight Ohms I am hooking up to an EVM, Black Label if it is over a hundred Watts. I still have a wall going, tunnel perhaps.
hi Johan, can u make a video with more basic stuff such as "what's coupling and why it matters?" I love ur videos!! thank u
Great video! love the info, now at the end you used a sen609? on the 1x12 and a 57 on the 4x12, that change alone will also give quite a difference in tone as well. Would love to see the comparison using the same mic though. 1 x 12 has a real tight focused sound, 4 x 12 sound wide and big
Whoa Johan wow at the beginning the BLACK BEAUTY YOU sounded like Toni Iommi..that thing got P A.F.s???? Eh...ill stay with 2x12 100 watt..the 4x12 you played through the 2204 I LOVE IT.. GOOD JOB. CHEERS!!!!!!
Any coupling contribution from multiple speakers is only heard in the room at some distance from an individual speaker. A microphone 1” from a single cone is completely unaffected by the coupling of other speakers.
Great useful content
I haven't benefited from mutual coupling in quite some time. Now I'm sad. Fascinating video, though. Rock on!
Rock on!
I know this is an older video, but that tone at 3:18 is INSANE. What did you do to that Marshall to make it absolutely ignite like that? (Other than doubling the depth of course)
Hi Johan, another great video. Just wondering if you used a room mic for any of the comparisons. Keep rocking, cheers!
The 3 MARSHALL'S daisy chained BaBy!!😛🤟
Cheers! 😉🤘
keep on rockin in the free world ....
I want to see a video of Johan starting to play in front of his wall and all of a sudden he goes flying forward from the force
Hahaha! 🤘
I want to try a 4 x 12 as a vertical 2 x 12 with the other holes blocked with ports tuning the cab to 80 Hz.
I'm just accepting the fact I'm a 4x12 guy. Lugging it around will keep me fit for life.