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00:00:00 - Introduction and Thesis: Should Artists with Under 100,000 Monthly Listeners Use Meta Ads? 00:01:17 - The Effectiveness of Facebook and Meta Ads in Music Promotion 00:02:25 - Organic Growth vs. Paid Advertising: Quality of Fans and Algorithm Impact 00:03:34 - The Role of Ads in Leveraging Spotify's Algorithm 00:05:31 - Combining Organic Reach and Ads: A Comprehensive Approach 00:06:50 - The TikTok Influence Strategy 00:07:56 - Cost-Effectiveness and Optimization in Ad Targeting 00:09:09 - Testing and Optimizing Ad Content and Audience 00:12:21 - Influence Accounts: A New Strategy for Music Promotion 00:14:30 - Audience Segmentation and Targeting Strategies 00:16:42 - The Importance of Broad and Diverse Audience Targeting 00:19:03 - The Nuances of Ad Optimization and Testing 00:20:06 - Leveraging Niche Content for Audience Engagement 00:22:11 - The Impact of Humor and Memes in Ad Performance 00:23:14 - Understanding Different Types of Listeners: Casual vs. Dedicated 00:24:53 - Balancing Niche Content with Broader Audience Appeal 00:26:23 - Comparing Audience Sizes and Engagement Across Genres 00:27:00 - The Risks of Inexperienced Meta Ad Management 00:28:06 - Pitfalls and Challenges of Using Meta's AI Tools in Ads 00:29:12 - Choosing Between Investing in Content or Ads for Independent Artists 00:29:43 - The Importance of Regular Ad Audits and Optimization
4:46 and 12:43very good to know. I made that mistake and run £10 ads and lost all reach. Such a bad thing to do to accounts but as soon as you know about it you're always careful moving forward and best off to pay that money to another creator to promote you. Thank you for your help guys.
You guys say “spend money on content” rather than ads but what does that exactly mean? I’m just confused on where that money should go specifically. Can you give some suggestions?
Those who have lots of music but hasn’t dropped anything to the public. Is there videos about how to create the social media accounts and getting music to the public how to go about it all step by step?
Deinitely remembet a few years ago Spotify directly saying they had users who they could tell had better taste anx they use those users behaviour to guide decisions on songs, i remember disctinctly this because i wss sure i was one of them lol
I got excited because you talked for a bit about how lofi can be used for content! It would be awesome to get your opinion on how to market lofi or other types of genres of music that are similar. I think a lot of people would benefit from that type of content!
@Musformation thank you for the quick reply! After I get the membership, can I see past videos or content? Thinking about getting it if that's the case 😄
@joshhurst9066 if you sign up on my channel page the video has it in the title and you can search my name on it once you’re a member. There’s also a white paper on how to do it in the description
I'm so glad you guys made this video. I hear Jesse mentioning how ads can destroy an artist. It's nice to hear an in depth explanation of this. Thanks for posting!
I still didn't get Jesse's strategy mentioned at 00:07:50 completely. From my understanding, he posts slideshows on faceless Tik Tok accounts (Top 5 Djent songs for example) having his artist in there and then runs ads on that faceless account? Is that right? I didn't get the first sentence "You have an artist profile on a device that has never touched the artist profile... then somebody (the faceless account?!) going...." Did somebody get that and can explain it to me real quick?
Yes... ads can be effective. However, you should spend at least 50% of your budget to campaigns in your country. This is a better return on investment because thisn audience can attend your shows, engage online, and buy your CDs. Investing heavily in overseas ads only for streaming purposes and vanity metrics is not a good idea. Personally, I just only spend a small daily budget for international marketing be because I appreciate having listeners from different countries and I might play shows there.... fans are fans no matter where theyre from but... I think running and traffic ads to your profile in your country is more beneficial ( at least most of your budget). Conversion ads on landing pages, in my experience, often lead to wasted time and money. Spending 30-40 cents per stream from an audience unlikely to become fans or attend shows isn't worthwhile.
@sanban6766 this is by no means meant to be a nuts and bolts beginner video we’ve done that on the channel and Andrew Southworth has great videos on that stuff
It's about triggering algorithmic playlists like radio, release radar and discover weekly, after 3 weeks of running an ad campaign months later it's still getting streamed a lot in the algorithmic radioplaylist which wouldn't happened without the ad campaign, it's just a good kickstart for triggering the algorithms
are any of you guys (Dustin and Matt) at liberty to say what KPIs you're looking at to determine if an ad is successful? Are you guys going off of price per conversion and CTR on Meta or the landing page? If you're looking at conversion prices, what would you guys deem as a successful campaign? In my book generally a conversion price of around 40-60 cents in tier 1 markets and a CTR above 2% on Meta and 50% on landing page is a clear indicator that a campaign is successful...appreciate u guys, great interview
Can't break an artist with $10k using meta ads??? I've seen a band go from 0 monthly listeners to 300k in less than a year with a 1 month long meta ad campaign of 8k. They're playing stadiums now. before they were literally nothing
A lot of people forget that you have to have good music and good content for FB ads to work in their favor, also that being said targeting tier 1 countries only instagram will result in high quality listeners and spending the right amount too!
All platforms always start by rewarding organic growth when they have more demand for content but less content, available. Once they become saturated (which most have become and TikTok is starting to become), they make it extremely hard to get organic reach at the scale you need to grow a large audience (especially for beginners). They want to monetize, thus ads become an easier way to reach people consistently and predictably to grow an audience. Also ads allow you to target users with demonstrated behaviors of purchase intent vs those that are more likely just to watch content and not buy things, which is a huge efficiency gain for generating revenue and building a high value fanbase when just starting out. Both strategies should be used for the greatest growth potential in my opinion and experience. Growing a channel with so much saturation in music is very very challenging organically, and many artists with excellent production and talent never reach the audiences they want because of how the algorithms are designed. Algorithms don't favor great music, they favor retention, CTR, comments, watch time, and engagement. Great music != audience growth (much of the time) Ironically more often than not I think when a song has a bad reaction from fans of a genre, I have actually seen more engagement on a post (than if it was good music and a good response) and thus artists feed off of that large reach because the algorithm sees high engagement (although it's negative). People naturally like them when the post reaches enough new listeners and they gain an audience from that. Short form content and algorithms favor shock factor content that makes you not want to stop watching. In the music world that's (instrument solos on difficult songs, spot on impersonations of successful artists, challenging dance routines, unique voices). You can still have amazing music without having any of these elements to your content. Organic favors people who create unique, shock value content, not great music. There needs to be a social platform for music that doesn't limit your reach. It's just old school and chronological. That's how you even the playing field.
@@Musformation got it!!! Tier 1 San Francisco Atlanta Houston New York City Dallas Chicago London Los Angeles Amsterdam, Netherlands Paris, France Stockholm, Sweden Oslo, Norway Tier 2 Mexico City, Mexico Toronto, Canada Sao Paulo, Brazil Madrid, Spain Tier 3 Quezon City, Philippines Buenos Aires, Argentina Santiago, Chile Jakarta, Indonesia
I cover this a lot on the members feed but if you hit the channel page then the guides section click the guide to finding community and in there’s a video on this
Is there gonna be a more in depth video showing how we can utilize this tiktok influence-account strategy? I’m always looking for alternatives to meta ads since the targeting can be so hard to nail, but I don’t feel like I have enough information to try this method you speak of.
You using modest budget being 500 to 1000 dollars a month to me seems high to me. What artists have that much money to easily spend that much? What should poor people do?
That's not true. That are so many factors that determine a good and bad meta ad/performance. Is your pixel set up correctly, are you using conversion Api, is your landing page intergeated correctly, are you hiting your target audience, are you split testing, what teir countries are you targeting, what's your budget etc. There are so many factors to meta ads that it is very easy to mess up if you don't know exactly what you are doing, meta is designed to take your money if you let it.
If you're enjoying this video and want more like it. For $5 a month I dissect all the most innovative marketing techniques musicians are using to go from 0 to millions of streams RIGHT NOW. .Get videos on how Artemas, Tommy Richman, South Arcade, Durry, Pluko, Dasha & many more blew up. th-cam.com/channels/0a-qcXVlh4Teya-EiEz-GA.htmljoin
00:00:00 - Introduction and Thesis: Should Artists with Under 100,000 Monthly Listeners Use Meta Ads?
00:01:17 - The Effectiveness of Facebook and Meta Ads in Music Promotion
00:02:25 - Organic Growth vs. Paid Advertising: Quality of Fans and Algorithm Impact
00:03:34 - The Role of Ads in Leveraging Spotify's Algorithm
00:05:31 - Combining Organic Reach and Ads: A Comprehensive Approach
00:06:50 - The TikTok Influence Strategy
00:07:56 - Cost-Effectiveness and Optimization in Ad Targeting
00:09:09 - Testing and Optimizing Ad Content and Audience
00:12:21 - Influence Accounts: A New Strategy for Music Promotion
00:14:30 - Audience Segmentation and Targeting Strategies
00:16:42 - The Importance of Broad and Diverse Audience Targeting
00:19:03 - The Nuances of Ad Optimization and Testing
00:20:06 - Leveraging Niche Content for Audience Engagement
00:22:11 - The Impact of Humor and Memes in Ad Performance
00:23:14 - Understanding Different Types of Listeners: Casual vs. Dedicated
00:24:53 - Balancing Niche Content with Broader Audience Appeal
00:26:23 - Comparing Audience Sizes and Engagement Across Genres
00:27:00 - The Risks of Inexperienced Meta Ad Management
00:28:06 - Pitfalls and Challenges of Using Meta's AI Tools in Ads
00:29:12 - Choosing Between Investing in Content or Ads for Independent Artists
00:29:43 - The Importance of Regular Ad Audits and Optimization
Wonderful conversation and very informative thanks guys!
I love these round table type discussions.
4:46 and 12:43very good to know. I made that mistake and run £10 ads and lost all reach. Such a bad thing to do to accounts but as soon as you know about it you're always careful moving forward and best off to pay that money to another creator to promote you. Thank you for your help guys.
Good conversation for sure. Ads is such a interesting thing
Great convo. Appreciate the different perspectives
You guys say “spend money on content” rather than ads but what does that exactly mean? I’m just confused on where that money should go specifically. Can you give some suggestions?
Music video, lyric video, visualizers. Maybe even something like shutterstock or unsplash that can help you post content with unlimited photos. Etc
The 'INCEL ALERT' killed me... lol
Those who have lots of music but hasn’t dropped anything to the public. Is there videos about how to create the social media accounts and getting music to the public how to go about it all step by step?
Great content as usual. Thanks
Deinitely remembet a few years ago Spotify directly saying they had users who they could tell had better taste anx they use those users behaviour to guide decisions on songs, i remember disctinctly this because i wss sure i was one of them lol
Probably were
I got excited because you talked for a bit about how lofi can be used for content!
It would be awesome to get your opinion on how to market lofi or other types of genres of music that are similar. I think a lot of people would benefit from that type of content!
We’ve talked a lot about that on the member feed
@Musformation thank you for the quick reply! After I get the membership, can I see past videos or content? Thinking about getting it if that's the case 😄
@ailo.lofimusic the whole back catalog is always available to members
@musformation do you have a specific video where you talk about the "TikTok outside influence" method you speak about briefly at 7:50 in this vid?
In the member feed only for now. Haven’t made a public one yet
@@Musformation sick! If it's not too much trouble, which member only vid?
@joshhurst9066 if you sign up on my channel page the video has it in the title and you can search my name on it once you’re a member. There’s also a white paper on how to do it in the description
I'm so glad you guys made this video. I hear Jesse mentioning how ads can destroy an artist. It's nice to hear an in depth explanation of this. Thanks for posting!
I just want to clarify I’ve never said destroy. I say a bad way to build and not the best way to spend money. Not destroy.
I still didn't get Jesse's strategy mentioned at 00:07:50 completely.
From my understanding, he posts slideshows on faceless Tik Tok accounts (Top 5 Djent songs for example) having his artist in there and then runs ads on that faceless account? Is that right? I didn't get the first sentence "You have an artist profile on a device that has never touched the artist profile... then somebody (the faceless account?!) going...."
Did somebody get that and can explain it to me real quick?
I was also lost! In another comment above he does say he shares the strategy in his members-only area. Good luck!
Yes... ads can be effective. However, you should spend at least 50% of your budget to campaigns in your country. This is a better return on investment because thisn audience can attend your shows, engage online, and buy your CDs. Investing heavily in overseas ads only for streaming purposes and vanity metrics is not a good idea. Personally, I just only spend a small daily budget for international marketing be because I appreciate having listeners from different countries and I might play shows there.... fans are fans no matter where theyre from but... I think running and traffic ads to your profile in your country is more beneficial ( at least most of your budget). Conversion ads on landing pages, in my experience, often lead to wasted time and money. Spending 30-40 cents per stream from an audience unlikely to become fans or attend shows isn't worthwhile.
This is something he should have said.
@sanban6766 this is by no means meant to be a nuts and bolts beginner video we’ve done that on the channel and Andrew Southworth has great videos on that stuff
It's about triggering algorithmic playlists like radio, release radar and discover weekly, after 3 weeks of running an ad campaign months later it's still getting streamed a lot in the algorithmic radioplaylist which wouldn't happened without the ad campaign, it's just a good kickstart for triggering the algorithms
are any of you guys (Dustin and Matt) at liberty to say what KPIs you're looking at to determine if an ad is successful? Are you guys going off of price per conversion and CTR on Meta or the landing page? If you're looking at conversion prices, what would you guys deem as a successful campaign? In my book generally a conversion price of around 40-60 cents in tier 1 markets and a CTR above 2% on Meta and 50% on landing page is a clear indicator that a campaign is successful...appreciate u guys, great interview
CTR stands for?
@MrAlwaysOnTen click they rate
@MrAlwaysOnTen click through rate
It would be interesting to hear how meta ads or others should be used when ppl have $100 or less per song to promote!
$100 will bring you nothing but an ego boost
dont use them!!!
$100 per what? Month? Week? You can get 100+ streams for 100$
Hundred a month is 1000 monthly listeners max
You can expect about 2k plus for that budget easy.
Awesome discussion.
Can't break an artist with $10k using meta ads??? I've seen a band go from 0 monthly listeners to 300k in less than a year with a 1 month long meta ad campaign of 8k. They're playing stadiums now. before they were literally nothing
Which band?
Mane i tested with a small budget and seen good results myself. Mane 8k I could really be on the next XXL freshman with that budget
Really great conversation. Thanks for sharing.
A lot of people forget that you have to have good music and good content for FB ads to work in their favor, also that being said targeting tier 1 countries only instagram will result in high quality listeners and spending the right amount too!
Hilariously a hypeddit ad played right before this video.
lol good for them
Great conversation, thx!!
This style of video is way better
So good - thanks all
isnt promoting with ads same thing as labels promoting with radio play and music videos through mtv back in the day etc?
This was really good. Really enjoyed it!
This is a great discussion
All platforms always start by rewarding organic growth when they have more demand for content but less content, available. Once they become saturated (which most have become and TikTok is starting to become), they make it extremely hard to get organic reach at the scale you need to grow a large audience (especially for beginners). They want to monetize, thus ads become an easier way to reach people consistently and predictably to grow an audience.
Also ads allow you to target users with demonstrated behaviors of purchase intent vs those that are more likely just to watch content and not buy things, which is a huge efficiency gain for generating revenue and building a high value fanbase when just starting out.
Both strategies should be used for the greatest growth potential in my opinion and experience.
Growing a channel with so much saturation in music is very very challenging organically, and many artists with excellent production and talent never reach the audiences they want because of how the algorithms are designed.
Algorithms don't favor great music, they favor retention, CTR, comments, watch time, and engagement. Great music != audience growth (much of the time)
Ironically more often than not I think when a song has a bad reaction from fans of a genre, I have actually seen more engagement on a post (than if it was good music and a good response) and thus artists feed off of that large reach because the algorithm sees high engagement (although it's negative). People naturally like them when the post reaches enough new listeners and they gain an audience from that.
Short form content and algorithms favor shock factor content that makes you not want to stop watching. In the music world that's (instrument solos on difficult songs, spot on impersonations of successful artists, challenging dance routines, unique voices). You can still have amazing music without having any of these elements to your content.
Organic favors people who create unique, shock value content, not great music. There needs to be a social platform for music that doesn't limit your reach. It's just old school and chronological. That's how you even the playing field.
Awesome convo, you should talk to Indepreneur about this too though!
Kinda personal question but do you have polyps? Ik that makes ppl sound nasal, but it can be surgically removed tho
what are those cities that trigger the US Dustin?
Charmetric has a great blog on Spotify trigger cities if you google that
@@Musformation got it!!!
Tier 1
San Francisco
Atlanta
Houston
New York City
Dallas
Chicago
London
Los Angeles
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Paris, France
Stockholm, Sweden
Oslo, Norway
Tier 2
Mexico City, Mexico
Toronto, Canada
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Madrid, Spain
Tier 3
Quezon City, Philippines
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Santiago, Chile
Jakarta, Indonesia
Some genius ideas here... 😮
Hey Jesse! Could you make a video on how musicians can use discord to their advantage?
I cover this a lot on the members feed but if you hit the channel page then the guides section click the guide to finding community and in there’s a video on this
So... content type may have an association of quality fan statistic. This could be a very interesting multivariate analysis
bridge city sinners are so kool
Is there gonna be a more in depth video showing how we can utilize this tiktok influence-account strategy?
I’m always looking for alternatives to meta ads since the targeting can be so hard to nail, but I don’t feel like I have enough information to try this method you speak of.
It’s on the member feed now I may do something on it later
We need the reacting to your songs video to drop 😂
Just gotta get the last ep of this doc done
@@Musformation plz bruh
Dark fantasy content was super successful in moving Dorian Concept’s song “Hide”
80s dark fantasy AI FTW
You using modest budget being 500 to 1000 dollars a month to me seems high to me. What artists have that much money to easily spend that much? What should poor people do?
Study short form and get good at it since once you have lighting and a good phone it’s free
META ads sucks regardless of what you do. I hate it so much
That's not true. That are so many factors that determine a good and bad meta ad/performance. Is your pixel set up correctly, are you using conversion Api, is your landing page intergeated correctly, are you hiting your target audience, are you split testing, what teir countries are you targeting, what's your budget etc. There are so many factors to meta ads that it is very easy to mess up if you don't know exactly what you are doing, meta is designed to take your money if you let it.
First!
Jesse can you please go back to doing solo videos? Nothing against the other dudes but we’re here for you and you only bro
Next video is solo but summer I need time to chill
This is all subjective but I really liked the chat with all of you, I found the different perspectives very helpful