These takes are terrible. Dratnos is the defacto blizz sucker who has there backs as its his paycheck. These affix changes are atrocious. bolstering sang and others are just terrible. NO ONE PLAYS THOSE WEEKS for a reason. they just wait for other weeks. so now you will just have much less participation as dratnos defends that. despicable. catering to casuals makes no sense. All they are doing is making everyone a casual which will just lead to less subscriptions as people leave since they are not playing anyway.
@@daketh4572as a 2.4k tank who pugs all his keys. Fuck the affix changes. I can already see myself run out of interrupts and the whole party just gets clapped by focused raging casters Active affixes suck, having to rely on other people to do affixes is horrible since they just wont. Just like seemingly 80% of the people dont even interrupt. I do not want to play highkeys as a pug, ive had too many 2.8-2.9k rio dps/healers who barely do their job and die to standing in swirlies with no interrupts
@@daketh4572 same. The remaining affixes are objectively a lot simpler to anticipate and play around. People choose difficulty for complexity. Difficulty is a matter of tuning, complexity is about the design. Stuff like incorporeal and the others were adding a lot more to track and we're disrupting so much the flow of a healer during keys. It was a lot more impactful than something like bursting.
@@daketh4572 have u seen all the new mobs in those dungeons u gonna play?multiple casters, that cant be locked by kicks, will now have a fucking bloodlust on them :D u gonna get bolted down like a bitch by these casts:D
The specs we need the most are tanks and healers, we have enough people playing dps, yet these affixes, even the kiss side of them, give very little to no incentive for tanks, let alone healers, to play them. What healer looks at the thorns affix with a bonus to the shadow and holy damage and is like “YES! this is a week I’d love to play, this affix makes the game more fun for me”
Meanwhile they nerf all damage trinkets for tanks and healers because they don't want them to do damages and the "focused" affix pretty much secures only bridging vdh as tank even more than it is now. These changes are cooked
50:00 100% agree. Doing keys below +10 this season has been pretty nice, because for the most part it feels like you're just playing the dungeon and not the affix. They also keep making the dungeons more complex, with more stuff to track and manage for each mob. The scaling itself is difficulty enough and since we are getting "new" dungeons every season, the purpose of affixes to keep things from getting stale is mostly gone.
JBs take on deleting the curse affixes is actually very interesting. What if it went in the other direction, and we had an array of kiss affixes and the amount of them went down as key level goes up until you just have a regular mythic dungeon at +10?
this! doing so would help encourage new players to feel nicer about doing M+, and drive less obsession about the meta at lower levels if all specs receive kisses and will still make dungeons harder if these benefits disappear at higher levels. u can design affixes around rewarding players talenting into interrupts, defensives and even benefitting melee/ranged on different weeks over fortified/tyrannical. these affixes feel so so disconnected from players doing M+s and i hope feedback is being flooded to blizz
Yep, the biggest challenge to get your M+ achievs as an off-meta DPS: Getting into piss-easy keys that the keyholder thinks "can't be done without an optimal set-up". And no, I don't mean keys that fill up in 2 seconds because they're considered the easiest to fill out your vault, I mean groups being refreshed 5 times and still not inviting you because you're "off-meta".
One week you can cast while moving but moving while you are casting adds x second to the cast. Melee week you can attack up to 30 yards away but get reduced damage based on how far away you are up to doing normal damage at your normal attack range. Those would be fun
After rewatching this a few times I thought of an affix that would replace a 2nd slot (Sanguine, Bursting, etc). "Tethered"/"Webbing" - Increases damage done and/or decreases damage taken the closer your party is together(15-1yds), but your run speed is decreased the further apart you are. Also given that TWW is pretty "spider" theme, having a new affix that webs you would be fitting. Pros: increased damage/survivability for stacking and moving as a group. Cons: Movement speed reduced for getting too far apart. However, many classes have movement buffs and/or snare removal to help get back into the group. Thoughts?
People need to realize that difficulty and complexity are two different things. The affixes they remove are affixes that heavily disrupt gameplay for healers and tanks in particular. Having to look for a ghost that spawn in a weird place and waste a precious dispell in it in a dungeon where dispels are super important is a lot worse than bursting for example. With bursting the group controls when the damage comes and in what intensity. The healer can ramp to account for the burst of damage and use dispels since mobs start dying at that point. If the remaining affixes are too hard to play with they will nerf them but by design honestly they are kinda fine. Sanguine was a lot worse before and now it's manageable even in a dungeon like Waycrest Manor.
Hey! Love this podcast listen every week. This question is for Max. Im making a part 2 of advanced m+ DH. Id love to add a segement with you in the part 2 from another DH who plays regardless of the tuning! The questions willl focus on different ways to improve DH mechanics specifically
They should keep the level 4 affix but add a way to add a kiss. Explosive: After a cast duration the orb explodes causing minor AoE Damage. Interrupting or stopping the cast gives the person a chance to cause fire damage with each hit/spell. Storming: Periodically spawn tornadoes. The tank is immune to tornados and instead each tornado absorbed empowers them with a damage absorb. Etc.
I just wish you could get more crests when the key level is higher. Why am i getting the same amount of crests from a +6 as a +15. I would love to play alts without having to grind a million keys to catch up. Make things make sense.
Along with changing some affixes to remove god comps, they should also make ONLY bosses affected by affixes. Remove it for mobs (which affects the speed of clear for god comps vs non god comps). I feel like that change would remove the pressure of needing to play certain comps at high levels.
I really appreciate that JB brought up the toxicity that IO currently brings and couldn't agree more with his direction of making M+ more chill and less toxic. I also liked Dorki's idea of having a pity system to incentivize bringing underrepresented specs. However, if they really buffed the rewards for bringing a "dead" spec into your group, people would probably pay real money to hire those specs to AFK, and then 4-man the keys. This could become a dominant strategy (means min-maxing, the best solution with no alternatives) where every group starts to require those specs, blocking out the rest. IMO, this is also super toxic and unhealthy; it's another cure that's worse than the disease. Blizzard is being enslaved by the bots and RMT that exist in the game right now. Whenever something is able to be traded for real money, such as hiring a 'dead' spec to boost you, the RMT market for that will BLOOM and backfire on us! (when 5 man dungeons become 4 man and a dead spec reserve)
Holy shit what a cook from Dr. Atnos. The Sephuz and Prydaz effects would actually be sick as an affix. Not too invasively positive, don't have to worry about them, can minmax if necessary or if you want to pull differently - great idea overall. My dream scenario is that keystones would have randomly selected affixes upon receival, and we'd go more towards something like Maps in Path of Exile. There would be plenty of groups with keystones with a wild variety of affixes listed at one time and you can pick and choose whatever you feel like, and you're not locked to a week of suffering, whichever one you may consider it to be. The downside is "dead keys" with the worst affixes. That being said, my immediate counterpoint is: oppressive and badly designed affixes should be rethought, rebalanced or straight up deleted. This is obviously the priority and what should have been happening right now anyways.
I liked fyr'alath with the abd luck protection. I wouldnt mind if for the future patches a subset of classes e.g. int casters or whatever got a lego to work for
I thought the same, just for testing. But, if they do this, they can never come back. The outrage, especially from low to mid key gamers, would be insane.
I am all for comp diversity. I would want an M+ where anyone feels comfortable playing any spec instead of feeling fomo, no invites and or feeling pressured to play a certain class only
12:00 I understand what JB is saying but sanguine, you still have to think about the pulls. For example, entangling would be way easier than sanguine. Raging and bolstering, you have to be ON point with cc or you'r party get's one shot by a cinderbolt. Volcanic would be less cognitive load. While I understand what blizz is doing, the passive affixes that they kept result in more cognitive load in a dungeon than the ones they removed.
For me one good point of the change is that we wont have a single affixes out of tyrannical that will impact boss fight in keys, and just that is good for pugs. And good feeling of boss fight. No more force outposition cause of volcanic or storming. And overall no more affix left that will for me to cancel heal on more dangerous pack of mobs. So the 4 level 8 affix left are bad, but overall the change may feel better than what lot of ppl think
The new affixes are only a 3-4% damage increase overall for a few classes when they are relevant... i.e. A caster mob may take 10% more damage from a bleed source but if there are few or no casters in the pull, then what does it matter to stack bleed classes for the affix???
What if Blizz made +1-10 focus on fun affixes, and then every key level above 10 adds a challenging affix (i.e. a +20 would have 10 affixes), blending fun with challenge? Would that be terrible, or would it satisfy both camps?
They should just make the affixes related to theme of the expansion. It’s a void ish theme so they should have affixes have to do with darkness or the void
The worst thing about the new affix is that it will solidify the meta on certain weeks. For example, if rogue is meta, then no other melee specs will see any type of play on any of the +phys damage weeks. Same idea for shadow damage week if spriest is meta, etc.
the affix cook gave me a thought - what if we had affixes that you could select on/off but if you selected them "on" they would add additional key levels to your key? like you could throw on volcanic for an extra +1 key level or something. could be kinda fun
I think these changes are meant as placebo for the most part. The goal being to change the perception (keyword) of players of the meta. If you feel that any spec can be strong on some specific well you will trust more easily players of that spec and might be happily surprised by their performance. Likewise it allows more players to think "My spec isn't the most popular right now but I'll play it because this season it's stronger on certain weeks". If less players blindly follow the meta AND more players trust off meta picks the perception of god comp could drastically change overtime in PUG environment. It's a very tricky result to achieve but i think it's a little bit genius. Now the way the +4 affixes work might be a bit convoluted but I say let's try it out and see. There's no point in complaining about something we haven't tried yet.
@@quintit Most unfun affix as dk tank, or melee healers like mistweavers imo. Getting knocked into the air -> getting hit in the back + not in range for death strike.
The problem with kiss affixes is that they will be optimised around so hard by the community that they will be even more toxic than any negative affix has ever been. Everyone hated Prideful specifically because it meant that if you fucked up when you got Prideful you just reset the key because there was no point playing without the buff. Negative affixes only ever bring you down from baseline when you fuck them up. If you do the mechanics perfectly, you get the baseline and no one can go higher than that. Positive affixes allow you to scale over the baseline, while still dropping below it if you fuck up the negative affixes. You end up in a situation where the min-max optimising of positive affixes become the entire focus of running M+, which would be absolutely god awful.
I've been playing since late bfa and really got into M+ in SL getting to 25-27 range in s3 and s4, trying to push keys every week(depending on affixes ofc). I did the same in DF even finding a static in S2 and getting to 29s. But after seeing no changes to scaling I just cba. I would like to enjoy M+ and pug some decently high keys, playing against the timer but without proper communication, set stops and specific utility this is just a pain So I did a couple of 15s on my main and stopped caring. Now I do my weeklies and log off. On that note. I would like to try a different class in higher keys but getting my alt from 520 to 526 requires like 30 dungeons worth of crests and f that.
If they want to keep affixes, I feel they should add in pire kiss affixes, where current direction with dungeons is with shit toon of stuff to do every pack. i belive affixes should be a opt in for more power. An example for this could be afflicted but you get a buff when dispelling and nothing happens when you don't dispell them
I don't think they can do anything like the old legendary system really. Unfortunately had to miss all but the final week of season 3 on my pala, so naturally the grind is on for legendary axe. Still don't have it unfortunately, guild called it quits for s4 so no more mythic fyrakk, next expansion is literally 6 weeks away and it's fortunate that I have a team to play m+ with else i'd have probably quit the season at that point or had to have played classes without legendaries. My paladin has been kicked from groups several times after being invited because i don't have the legendary. It's honestly so much fun not having an item your class is balanced around that literally sims for 11.6% more dps higher than what you have at the moment
they need to have "difficult" affixes that if you complete you get a huge benefit for the rest of the dungeon... something like a mob that is in a certain part of the dungeon and guarded by super high mobs that are hard to kill.. if you kill that mob you get 10% haste rest of the dungeon.. or if you interrupt or cc a mob you can cast while moving for the next 20 secs
Affixes should either impact everyone positively or be completely removed. The negative affixes have no justification on a system like m+ that already scales in difficulty because it disproportionately affects higher keys more. People would be ecstatic if every week was a different fun affix that may or may not change gameplay but is at least enjoyable.
Season 4 needed to be these changes. They could not come out with awakened and try to just be fated. Fated was goated because of the changes to m+ that continued into DF. Gear upgrades and rotation of dungeons by bringing old dungeons into the current season. That was the genius behind fated and awakened was just DOA.
I agree that the affixes they've chosen to keep seem really strange, things the community doesn't like. I disagree with Jdotb about the goal of the new affixes being to affect PuGs (although I obviously think they will affect PuG's). I think the reason these choices seem strange is being we're viewing it from the perspective of *playing* the game. I think these changes in attepting to adjust MDI... Let me explain: Past few MDI's have the same comp vs the same comp; they may change it up between keys but it's always x comp vs x comp. The +4 affixes are so small that they really wouldn't affect the majority of players, and the affect it will have will be as you say 'trikle down' and extremely min-max. However it could rise to some delta in the comps ran in competition, giving more opportunities for a particular team that, for example has multiple flex players to take a small advantage by switching between Mage specs. I came to this idea when I saw the +7 affixes, because they're all horrible to play - but excellent to watch, and are often the reasons teams will struggle giving to higher drama moments. These changes aren't for the players, they're for the veiwers.
i would argue the "games have to be perfect" is already over because if you buy a game nowadays what's the first thing you do? you download a day 1/launch patch, games nowadays release buggy or broken in some ways and that gets fixed over time
How are the TWW dungeons? If it's like shadowmoon, where multiple packs have next to no ability... sure, bring the complex affix. If it's like nokhud, where a single pack of mob (waterfall) require 5 different kick, 2 AOE stop, 1 dispell, 1 tank buster and 1 AoE on the ground... it's absolutely ridiculous to add raging + tindralify on that. Also, if sanguine is here to stay, then the high HP mob most affected by sanguine need to be knockable / keep moving as they cast.
There has clearly been a "directive" to design these new affixes as a carrot for players to try change talents / hero specs beyond the cookie cutter listed in guides. Despite the fact that many change the playstyle of the class. So the bulk of players won't swap if they don't enjoy it, as the benefit isn't significant enough to matter. It also won't have a signifcant effect on meta group composition as buffs / utility are far more impactful.
@@keithb6344 It depends on the class as some inherently benefit more than others (demon hunter). There's a spreadsheet that someone put together that shows what combination of spec / hero talents gains the damage buff for each affix.
@@keithb6344Deathbringer makes blood dk go from 0 frost damage to 80% frost damage. It also makes frost dk go from 0 shadow damage to, uh, some large amount of shadow damage, I don’t play frost dk enough to test.
Not to mention that most of the time the different specs require different stats. Fire vs Arcane vs Frost. Not only are they different playstyles, you would need so many different sets to really be optimal.
They saw how easily people geared this season and freaked out. Made these changes based on Season 4. I don't think they planned on changes, but then season 4 has a meta(mostly because people aren't required to play their main raiding toon). I think season 4 was a vortex, and they made changes based on that. Season 1 will be interesting in TWW.
Hear me out, untimed keys should not go down if you complete it. If you abandon it, it drops. Rewards for dungeons should look like this. 6 aspect crest @ 6 (complete or deplete) 9 aspect crest @ 9 10 aspect @ 10 for deplete, but 15 for completion +1 for each additional level after They should also put an item in game which allows you to upgrade heroic to mythic track with 100 aspect crests. Got 150 crests? You can upgrade that avoidance heroic track to mythic now.
Sanguine... give it a cap on healing. Bursting... cap at 5 stacks, can increase damage per stack Bolstering... does not stack, can be purged Raging... remove cc protection
Only way I see legendaries being added in the future that have legit legendary status and not everyone gets one after a few weeks is just make them cosmetic with drop rate at 1%-5%.
I will be completely honest, I don't rate the new affixes highly but if I had to choose between the new ones including the ones we're keeping and the old set we had, I would choose the new ones, the affixes they removed are generally the more annoying ones to be affected by in a dungeon for the vast majority of players, above a portal level key I'm sure the ones we kept are bad but for most players, they are effectively inconsequential affixes that barely affect the way you do your dungeons at all, which is a positive, sure storming and spiteful and whatnot were easier for even decent groups, but god were they just not fun to interact with in any way whatsoever. I'm glad they removed most of those, it would be good if they changed the +7 bucket as well to something else though.
@@plattockdefinitely dps main. i agree on incorp/ afflicted But these affix changes will absolutely make you miserable. Especially focused / attuned with focused a BL‘d caster that isnt getting interrupted in pugs :)) You as a tank have so much more to worry about everything just fucks you, which you should know, as a tank main?
@@notlikethis-zf7xm I do not push keys, I do my ports and then I just do keys with my friends for fun, nothing regardless of the tank spec I play will ever kill me in the key levels I do, and anything that would on a higher key is unfortunately not very important to Blizzard since they seem to insist on not maintaining any balance above a port-level key whilst still allowing you to do them for some reason
everything JB said during the armchair development part is 10000% correct. why cant affixes be FUN challenges instead of ones that punch you in the face or dick?
“What does prot warrior look like this season?”
“Valdrakkan” bruh I just spit out my water 😂😂
Nothing is guaranteed in life, but Dratnos' takes are about as close as it gets. The dude REALLY gets other viewpoints.
Yeah I find him the most level headed and well rounded of the bunch when it comes to balancing viewpoints
He truly is very valuable to the community and incredibly pleasant to listen to.
These takes are terrible. Dratnos is the defacto blizz sucker who has there backs as its his paycheck. These affix changes are atrocious. bolstering sang and others are just terrible. NO ONE PLAYS THOSE WEEKS for a reason. they just wait for other weeks. so now you will just have much less participation as dratnos defends that. despicable. catering to casuals makes no sense. All they are doing is making everyone a casual which will just lead to less subscriptions as people leave since they are not playing anyway.
@@JohnnyCrowell-l3n💀
Not ending the PoddyC by saying PoDios should be considered a crime
PoddyCya?
agreed
A PoddyCrime
PoddyCiao
Kiss dps, curse tanks and healers..... feels about right
Then constantly ask the community why no one is playing tanks and healers....
As a 2,8k healer who pugs all this keys i love these changes because for once i can ignore a lot of the affix's like afflicted/incorp and just heal
@@daketh4572as a 2.4k tank who pugs all his keys. Fuck the affix changes. I can already see myself run out of interrupts and the whole party just gets clapped by focused raging casters
Active affixes suck, having to rely on other people to do affixes is horrible since they just wont.
Just like seemingly 80% of the people dont even interrupt. I do not want to play highkeys as a pug, ive had too many 2.8-2.9k rio dps/healers who barely do their job and die to standing in swirlies with no interrupts
@@daketh4572 same. The remaining affixes are objectively a lot simpler to anticipate and play around. People choose difficulty for complexity. Difficulty is a matter of tuning, complexity is about the design. Stuff like incorporeal and the others were adding a lot more to track and we're disrupting so much the flow of a healer during keys. It was a lot more impactful than something like bursting.
@@daketh4572 have u seen all the new mobs in those dungeons u gonna play?multiple casters, that cant be locked by kicks, will now have a fucking bloodlust on them :D u gonna get bolted down like a bitch by these casts:D
this was a fun episode, caught this one live. LOVED JB here. my guy
The specs we need the most are tanks and healers, we have enough people playing dps, yet these affixes, even the kiss side of them, give very little to no incentive for tanks, let alone healers, to play them.
What healer looks at the thorns affix with a bonus to the shadow and holy damage and is like “YES! this is a week I’d love to play, this affix makes the game more fun for me”
Disc
@@plattock as a disc idgaf, im mad on the caster weeks where the mobs get more haste and I can't interupt
@@nathanwood3110 Fair
@@plattock damage amp/reduction seldomly affect atonnement healing... for obvious reasons.
Meanwhile they nerf all damage trinkets for tanks and healers because they don't want them to do damages and the "focused" affix pretty much secures only bridging vdh as tank even more than it is now. These changes are cooked
1:20:19 I remember where i was when i looted the Warglaves, i was in Black Temple XD
Thank you, Fronk, for the the Dorki-Faker image. It goes so hard.
Oooooo - I am ready for salt. Love when JB gives his takes live.
50:00 100% agree. Doing keys below +10 this season has been pretty nice, because for the most part it feels like you're just playing the dungeon and not the affix. They also keep making the dungeons more complex, with more stuff to track and manage for each mob. The scaling itself is difficulty enough and since we are getting "new" dungeons every season, the purpose of affixes to keep things from getting stale is mostly gone.
Its likes they said “what constitutes complexity we want to remove” and the answer was “ whatever they use a weak aura to time when it will pop”
JBs take on deleting the curse affixes is actually very interesting. What if it went in the other direction, and we had an array of kiss affixes and the amount of them went down as key level goes up until you just have a regular mythic dungeon at +10?
this! doing so would help encourage new players to feel nicer about doing M+, and drive less obsession about the meta at lower levels if all specs receive kisses and will still make dungeons harder if these benefits disappear at higher levels. u can design affixes around rewarding players talenting into interrupts, defensives and even benefitting melee/ranged on different weeks over fortified/tyrannical. these affixes feel so so disconnected from players doing M+s and i hope feedback is being flooded to blizz
Never under estimate how good bad players are at keeping the toxic meta dream alive in everything outside of rank 1 keys.
Yep, the biggest challenge to get your M+ achievs as an off-meta DPS: Getting into piss-easy keys that the keyholder thinks "can't be done without an optimal set-up". And no, I don't mean keys that fill up in 2 seconds because they're considered the easiest to fill out your vault, I mean groups being refreshed 5 times and still not inviting you because you're "off-meta".
I love hearing JB, great dude, wild takes, massive analogies.
Jb spit this podcast. He is normally a complainer but he absolutely ate. Really solid takes
Bursting: now lasts 20s just like bolstering.
They need to make bolstering 6s duration.
the 20% armor pen is the way to get brewmaster meta - no armor to reduce in the first place ;D
I rate the Dorki edit onto Faker, feels nicely timed with the Hall of Legends stuff haha that just dropped
max be grippin that big black stick
One week you can cast while moving but moving while you are casting adds x second to the cast.
Melee week you can attack up to 30 yards away but get reduced damage based on how far away you are up to doing normal damage at your normal attack range.
Those would be fun
JB is always talked about as that edgy weirdo and he just rolls in here with the most logical takes, cohesive thought and solid ideas.
Cant believe he held that smile the whole time. Impressive.
those affixes tho, yikes. good day to be a dh tho i guess, bad day to be a tank/healer
Emergency Podcast is the... best podcast?
After rewatching this a few times I thought of an affix that would replace a 2nd slot (Sanguine, Bursting, etc). "Tethered"/"Webbing" - Increases damage done and/or decreases damage taken the closer your party is together(15-1yds), but your run speed is decreased the further apart you are. Also given that TWW is pretty "spider" theme, having a new affix that webs you would be fitting.
Pros: increased damage/survivability for stacking and moving as a group.
Cons: Movement speed reduced for getting too far apart. However, many classes have movement buffs and/or snare removal to help get back into the group.
Thoughts?
If the intention is to give different classes time to shine, 10% of a damage type ain’t gonna be enough
especially when only some trash.
"I am talking about what desert to have, and your like you still gotta shit afterwards" 😅😅
“You’re telling me I’m gonna shit afterwards and in like, I know, but I’m still talking about what dessert I want” 💀
As long as survivability is more important than damage, meta wont change.
Very rare footage of jdotb genuinely smiling. Colorized.
huge point JB made about this experimental stuff should have happened in season 4
People need to realize that difficulty and complexity are two different things.
The affixes they remove are affixes that heavily disrupt gameplay for healers and tanks in particular. Having to look for a ghost that spawn in a weird place and waste a precious dispell in it in a dungeon where dispels are super important is a lot worse than bursting for example. With bursting the group controls when the damage comes and in what intensity. The healer can ramp to account for the burst of damage and use dispels since mobs start dying at that point.
If the remaining affixes are too hard to play with they will nerf them but by design honestly they are kinda fine. Sanguine was a lot worse before and now it's manageable even in a dungeon like Waycrest Manor.
Hey! Love this podcast listen every week. This question is for Max. Im making a part 2 of advanced m+ DH. Id love to add a segement with you in the part 2 from another DH who plays regardless of the tuning! The questions willl focus on different ways to improve DH mechanics specifically
Part one was great can't wait for part 2
@@Chad-mx1pd thank you!
They should keep the level 4 affix but add a way to add a kiss.
Explosive: After a cast duration the orb explodes causing minor AoE Damage. Interrupting or stopping the cast gives the person a chance to cause fire damage with each hit/spell.
Storming: Periodically spawn tornadoes. The tank is immune to tornados and instead each tornado absorbed empowers them with a damage absorb.
Etc.
Dratnos the dessert comment and shitting made me laugh out loud at work 😂
I just wish you could get more crests when the key level is higher. Why am i getting the same amount of crests from a +6 as a +15. I would love to play alts without having to grind a million keys to catch up. Make things make sense.
wrath classic Halls of Lightning/Stone affix was perfect. just do stuff like that man.
Along with changing some affixes to remove god comps, they should also make ONLY bosses affected by affixes. Remove it for mobs (which affects the speed of clear for god comps vs non god comps). I feel like that change would remove the pressure of needing to play certain comps at high levels.
I really appreciate that JB brought up the toxicity that IO currently brings and couldn't agree more with his direction of making M+ more chill and less toxic. I also liked Dorki's idea of having a pity system to incentivize bringing underrepresented specs. However, if they really buffed the rewards for bringing a "dead" spec into your group, people would probably pay real money to hire those specs to AFK, and then 4-man the keys. This could become a dominant strategy (means min-maxing, the best solution with no alternatives) where every group starts to require those specs, blocking out the rest. IMO, this is also super toxic and unhealthy; it's another cure that's worse than the disease.
Blizzard is being enslaved by the bots and RMT that exist in the game right now. Whenever something is able to be traded for real money, such as hiring a 'dead' spec to boost you, the RMT market for that will BLOOM and backfire on us! (when 5 man dungeons become 4 man and a dead spec reserve)
Spot on jb on why u bring certain classes
Holy shit what a cook from Dr. Atnos. The Sephuz and Prydaz effects would actually be sick as an affix. Not too invasively positive, don't have to worry about them, can minmax if necessary or if you want to pull differently - great idea overall.
My dream scenario is that keystones would have randomly selected affixes upon receival, and we'd go more towards something like Maps in Path of Exile. There would be plenty of groups with keystones with a wild variety of affixes listed at one time and you can pick and choose whatever you feel like, and you're not locked to a week of suffering, whichever one you may consider it to be.
The downside is "dead keys" with the worst affixes. That being said, my immediate counterpoint is: oppressive and badly designed affixes should be rethought, rebalanced or straight up deleted. This is obviously the priority and what should have been happening right now anyways.
I liked fyr'alath with the abd luck protection. I wouldnt mind if for the future patches a subset of classes e.g. int casters or whatever got a lego to work for
I really want a season without *any* affixes. Just to see.
I thought the same, just for testing. But, if they do this, they can never come back. The outrage, especially from low to mid key gamers, would be insane.
@@Painchiller source?
@@quintitI don’t think you understand how to use that
@@wm1573 what?
@@quintit “outrage from low to mid key gamers would be insane” and you’re asking for source…? Could it be…..the players?
It took me too long to realize dorki’s background is faker doing is signature move haha
there is handling noise and beard noise hardcore in some poddyc episodes.
I had an Aug tell me (a Resto Druid) that I’m suppose to save him from one shots and said he has 0 defensives.
I am all for comp diversity. I would want an M+ where anyone feels comfortable playing any spec instead of feeling fomo, no invites and or feeling pressured to play a certain class only
12:00 I understand what JB is saying but sanguine, you still have to think about the pulls. For example, entangling would be way easier than sanguine. Raging and bolstering, you have to be ON point with cc or you'r party get's one shot by a cinderbolt. Volcanic would be less cognitive load.
While I understand what blizz is doing, the passive affixes that they kept result in more cognitive load in a dungeon than the ones they removed.
Dorki saying "wee woo wee woo" I LIKE THAT
For me one good point of the change is that we wont have a single affixes out of tyrannical that will impact boss fight in keys, and just that is good for pugs. And good feeling of boss fight. No more force outposition cause of volcanic or storming. And overall no more affix left that will for me to cancel heal on more dangerous pack of mobs. So the 4 level 8 affix left are bad, but overall the change may feel better than what lot of ppl think
I think the affixes will change the tournaments so the audiences can finally see different classes played in top end
Jb’s take on getting rid of affixes is BASED as fuck.
The new affixes are only a 3-4% damage increase overall for a few classes when they are relevant... i.e. A caster mob may take 10% more damage from a bleed source but if there are few or no casters in the pull, then what does it matter to stack bleed classes for the affix???
So DH and druids can tank most weeks because of their different damage profiles and hero talents?
JB is a vibe
42:10 But I ask why not taken and the group leader legit tells me “sham/priest only” sooo…
Imagine your class is getting buff only two weeks in full rotation buts its paired with bolatering/sanguine/raging. Lovely season it would be
The unintended consequence of the new +4 is now you can only pug as a dps on your week
What if Blizz made +1-10 focus on fun affixes, and then every key level above 10 adds a challenging affix (i.e. a +20 would have 10 affixes), blending fun with challenge? Would that be terrible, or would it satisfy both camps?
JB professional line chef, gourmet takes michelin 5 star.
Blizz should absolutely make M+ as inviting as possible in S1 of TWW so they don’t discourage new/returning players.
They should just make the affixes related to theme of the expansion. It’s a void ish theme so they should have affixes have to do with darkness or the void
Max ripping the ole "Potty Surprise" at the start
The worst thing about the new affix is that it will solidify the meta on certain weeks. For example, if rogue is meta, then no other melee specs will see any type of play on any of the +phys damage weeks. Same idea for shadow damage week if spriest is meta, etc.
the affix cook gave me a thought - what if we had affixes that you could select on/off but if you selected them "on" they would add additional key levels to your key? like you could throw on volcanic for an extra +1 key level or something. could be kinda fun
I think these changes are meant as placebo for the most part. The goal being to change the perception (keyword) of players of the meta. If you feel that any spec can be strong on some specific well you will trust more easily players of that spec and might be happily surprised by their performance.
Likewise it allows more players to think "My spec isn't the most popular right now but I'll play it because this season it's stronger on certain weeks". If less players blindly follow the meta AND more players trust off meta picks the perception of god comp could drastically change overtime in PUG environment.
It's a very tricky result to achieve but i think it's a little bit genius.
Now the way the +4 affixes work might be a bit convoluted but I say let's try it out and see.
There's no point in complaining about something we haven't tried yet.
What if they made aug a tank spec vs support?
Incorp and afflicted were worse than storming. Rest in piss to those.
based dps warrior player opinion
Max shitting on Storming out of all the affixes is wild 🤣
do u play melee lol, if u dont have long arms storming blows
@@quintit Most unfun affix as dk tank, or melee healers like mistweavers imo. Getting knocked into the air -> getting hit in the back + not in range for death strike.
@@PazazaP yep, turning frontals as well, any tank hates it
The problem with kiss affixes is that they will be optimised around so hard by the community that they will be even more toxic than any negative affix has ever been. Everyone hated Prideful specifically because it meant that if you fucked up when you got Prideful you just reset the key because there was no point playing without the buff. Negative affixes only ever bring you down from baseline when you fuck them up. If you do the mechanics perfectly, you get the baseline and no one can go higher than that. Positive affixes allow you to scale over the baseline, while still dropping below it if you fuck up the negative affixes. You end up in a situation where the min-max optimising of positive affixes become the entire focus of running M+, which would be absolutely god awful.
its like they are trying to adapt the "surges" from destiny 2, itsa good idea keeps everything fresh, but you would have to choose classes as the type
I've been playing since late bfa and really got into M+ in SL getting to 25-27 range in s3 and s4, trying to push keys every week(depending on affixes ofc). I did the same in DF even finding a static in S2 and getting to 29s. But after seeing no changes to scaling I just cba. I would like to enjoy M+ and pug some decently high keys, playing against the timer but without proper communication, set stops and specific utility this is just a pain So I did a couple of 15s on my main and stopped caring. Now I do my weeklies and log off.
On that note. I would like to try a different class in higher keys but getting my alt from 520 to 526 requires like 30 dungeons worth of crests and f that.
If they want to keep affixes, I feel they should add in pire kiss affixes, where current direction with dungeons is with shit toon of stuff to do every pack. i belive affixes should be a opt in for more power. An example for this could be afflicted but you get a buff when dispelling and nothing happens when you don't dispell them
I don't think they can do anything like the old legendary system really. Unfortunately had to miss all but the final week of season 3 on my pala, so naturally the grind is on for legendary axe. Still don't have it unfortunately, guild called it quits for s4 so no more mythic fyrakk, next expansion is literally 6 weeks away and it's fortunate that I have a team to play m+ with else i'd have probably quit the season at that point or had to have played classes without legendaries. My paladin has been kicked from groups several times after being invited because i don't have the legendary. It's honestly so much fun not having an item your class is balanced around that literally sims for 11.6% more dps higher than what you have at the moment
When you have quests or even dorki, you need to add a highlight when they talk.
Coggy load for sanguine is so high that out of habit you still pretend it's there the following week.
Fronk is becoming the poddyc heel.
Cook:
Bolstering also bolsters players.
Sanguine heals players too.
Bursting gives % damage to players per stack.
Enraged mobs also take more damage.
u burnt the food
Bolstering bolsters only the tank. Punish the dps for not balancing dps 😂
they need to have "difficult" affixes that if you complete you get a huge benefit for the rest of the dungeon... something like a mob that is in a certain part of the dungeon and guarded by super high mobs that are hard to kill.. if you kill that mob you get 10% haste rest of the dungeon.. or if you interrupt or cc a mob you can cast while moving for the next 20 secs
Affixes should either impact everyone positively or be completely removed. The negative affixes have no justification on a system like m+ that already scales in difficulty because it disproportionately affects higher keys more. People would be ecstatic if every week was a different fun affix that may or may not change gameplay but is at least enjoyable.
Season 4 needed to be these changes. They could not come out with awakened and try to just be fated. Fated was goated because of the changes to m+ that continued into DF. Gear upgrades and rotation of dungeons by bringing old dungeons into the current season. That was the genius behind fated and awakened was just DOA.
TWW sounds like the Shadowlands devs returning. Games are meant to be fun. Hard doesn't mean not fun. JB and Dorki spitting facts here.
I agree that the affixes they've chosen to keep seem really strange, things the community doesn't like. I disagree with Jdotb about the goal of the new affixes being to affect PuGs (although I obviously think they will affect PuG's). I think the reason these choices seem strange is being we're viewing it from the perspective of *playing* the game. I think these changes in attepting to adjust MDI... Let me explain: Past few MDI's have the same comp vs the same comp; they may change it up between keys but it's always x comp vs x comp. The +4 affixes are so small that they really wouldn't affect the majority of players, and the affect it will have will be as you say 'trikle down' and extremely min-max. However it could rise to some delta in the comps ran in competition, giving more opportunities for a particular team that, for example has multiple flex players to take a small advantage by switching between Mage specs. I came to this idea when I saw the +7 affixes, because they're all horrible to play - but excellent to watch, and are often the reasons teams will struggle giving to higher drama moments. These changes aren't for the players, they're for the veiwers.
Hell yeah JB
i would argue the "games have to be perfect" is already over because if you buy a game nowadays what's the first thing you do? you download a day 1/launch patch, games nowadays release buggy or broken in some ways and that gets fixed over time
"Fronk likes to do it" lmao
the small mammal living in Jdotb's shirt
I can myself getting bored from m+ without trash weekly affixes. I do got bored of years aiming at push weeks, non push weeks tho
dont know if anybody remember Encrypted in shadowlands but i think they should bring that back as permanent m+ feature
How are the TWW dungeons? If it's like shadowmoon, where multiple packs have next to no ability... sure, bring the complex affix.
If it's like nokhud, where a single pack of mob (waterfall) require 5 different kick, 2 AOE stop, 1 dispell, 1 tank buster and 1 AoE on the ground... it's absolutely ridiculous to add raging + tindralify on that.
Also, if sanguine is here to stay, then the high HP mob most affected by sanguine need to be knockable / keep moving as they cast.
There has clearly been a "directive" to design these new affixes as a carrot for players to try change talents / hero specs beyond the cookie cutter listed in guides. Despite the fact that many change the playstyle of the class. So the bulk of players won't swap if they don't enjoy it, as the benefit isn't significant enough to matter. It also won't have a signifcant effect on meta group composition as buffs / utility are far more impactful.
Do that many hero talents and specs change what type of damage you do?
@@keithb6344 It depends on the class as some inherently benefit more than others (demon hunter). There's a spreadsheet that someone put together that shows what combination of spec / hero talents gains the damage buff for each affix.
It’s more so to make certain class specs feel relevant. Even if they aren’t “meta” for the season there will be a week where they are powerful.
@@keithb6344Deathbringer makes blood dk go from 0 frost damage to 80% frost damage. It also makes frost dk go from 0 shadow damage to, uh, some large amount of shadow damage, I don’t play frost dk enough to test.
Not to mention that most of the time the different specs require different stats. Fire vs Arcane vs Frost. Not only are they different playstyles, you would need so many different sets to really be optimal.
They saw how easily people geared this season and freaked out. Made these changes based on Season 4. I don't think they planned on changes, but then season 4 has a meta(mostly because people aren't required to play their main raiding toon). I think season 4 was a vortex, and they made changes based on that. Season 1 will be interesting in TWW.
Hear me out, untimed keys should not go down if you complete it. If you abandon it, it drops.
Rewards for dungeons should look like this.
6 aspect crest @ 6 (complete or deplete)
9 aspect crest @ 9
10 aspect @ 10 for deplete, but 15 for completion
+1 for each additional level after
They should also put an item in game which allows you to upgrade heroic to mythic track with 100 aspect crests. Got 150 crests? You can upgrade that avoidance heroic track to mythic now.
This is for parsers topping their spec meter
Sanguine... give it a cap on healing.
Bursting... cap at 5 stacks, can increase damage per stack
Bolstering... does not stack, can be purged
Raging... remove cc protection
Bursting is probably the most egregious offender in lower keys, mobs die too fast.
Only way I see legendaries being added in the future that have legit legendary status and not everyone gets one after a few weeks is just make them cosmetic with drop rate at 1%-5%.
I will be completely honest, I don't rate the new affixes highly but if I had to choose between the new ones including the ones we're keeping and the old set we had, I would choose the new ones, the affixes they removed are generally the more annoying ones to be affected by in a dungeon for the vast majority of players, above a portal level key I'm sure the ones we kept are bad but for most players, they are effectively inconsequential affixes that barely affect the way you do your dungeons at all, which is a positive, sure storming and spiteful and whatnot were easier for even decent groups, but god were they just not fun to interact with in any way whatsoever. I'm glad they removed most of those, it would be good if they changed the +7 bucket as well to something else though.
DPS player no. 37,854 detected.
@@Wand422 A shame, I'm a tank main
@@plattockdefinitely dps main. i agree on incorp/ afflicted
But these affix changes will absolutely make you miserable. Especially focused / attuned
with focused a BL‘d caster that isnt getting interrupted in pugs :))
You as a tank have so much more to worry about everything just fucks you, which you should know, as a tank main?
@@notlikethis-zf7xm I do not push keys, I do my ports and then I just do keys with my friends for fun, nothing regardless of the tank spec I play will ever kill me in the key levels I do, and anything that would on a higher key is unfortunately not very important to Blizzard since they seem to insist on not maintaining any balance above a port-level key whilst still allowing you to do them for some reason
the only thing i keep thinking about is adding these new affixes to fortified/raging or fortified/bolstering. please tell me that sounds fun.
everything JB said during the armchair development part is 10000% correct. why cant affixes be FUN challenges instead of ones that punch you in the face or dick?
thats what i said, they literally took out the "good" affixes and kept the ultra bad ones