The Dominion War Arms Race!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- This week we take a look at the developing arms race within the dominion war; looking at the newly mobilized ships of the Klingon defence forces, the latest ships and Doctrines being employed by starfleet, and the newest additions to the cardassian fleet
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Barf up it's fighters. I love that. Comments like that crack me up.
That Interceptor-class reminds me of a Skipray Blastboat from Star Wars. The D-10....too much blood wine was consumed while it was being designed. Uglier than homemade sin.
Great video. What you said about the Romulans really ties in with what we saw in DS9 e.g. trying to putt missile bases on Bajor's moon with no consultation with their allies or the Bajorins and during the battle of cardassia the Federation had to swoop in to stop the Romulan line collapsing after their flagship was destroyed if they were properly integrated with the Federationand Klingons they should have been able to hold out even with that loss.
Yeah it's partly due to doctrinal differences but also political issues.
atolm azel, that's Panzer dragoon Saga from the sega Saturn. good name
still watching
A romulan is going to do what a romulan is going to do. Now the Klingons, they were happy to give us their batl'eths!
That is a fair assessment
In wartime, new ship class development tends to be exponential. The Dominion War is no exception. It's indeed interesting to see how these new vessels are use & from that determine which ones are the ships of the future, & which should've stayed on the drawing board.
Agreed you see in in most every war ( major war )
Here is an idea let's talk about rifle and body armor
i have been toying with that idea. maybe...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 think you so very much
I had a concept for a warship, with the designation "ISS CONQOURER".
It's slightly over (by 17 sq meters) four times the size of a Galaxy class Starship (of either timeline).
Prior to finding its way into the Prime Universe, it was rumored to be so powerful that if you saw it appear (decloak) over your city the "war" was over and you were either going to be destroyed or subjugated.
The T' Chava Kal looks like one of the Klingon ships from Star Trek Armada 2 game. A few Cardassian ships did too.
Another brilliantly great and fabulously detailed video, venom. It is interesting to think how thanks to the Borg and then the dominion, the federation spends most of 2365-75 in a military revolution taking them from a golden age fleet of explorer ships capable of fighting to an effectively warfare purpose built fleet and ships types, capable of meeting and fighting any threat.
Also upon further reflection, the dominion in trying to weaken and grind down their enemies by forcing them into engaging in wars with the other alpha quadrant powers, before the main war, they effectively forced the federation and klingons particularly into changing and updating their fleets and tactics before the war began to great effect eventually even if said change isn'tcomplete by time war breaks out.
The T'chava Kal appeared in Activision's Star Trek Armada games, certainly the second one where it was used as an assault ship a believe, being used to deliver Klingon marines into boarding actions. In fact, the name T'chava Kal apparently meant "Dagger of The Empire" for this role, being a small, fast ship that could kill or seriously wound much bigger opponents
Nice to see more of the Cardassian designs from Armada 2 making an appearance. I've always had a soft spot for the Brinok in particular - to me it really gives off the vibe of being a Cardassian attempt at an missile cruiser that is trying to compete with modern advanced Federation (and other major powers) ships, but because of Cardassian technology still being a bit behind their peers, they have to resort to having dual engine/hull frames to keep up (the manual said it had two warp cores).
Same with the Hutet - the Cardassians don't have the tech to be able to design and buld a ship that is as powerful as a Galaxy/Sovereign/D'Deridex but that is still in the same general size class as those ships, so to keep up and have an equivalent/more powerful battleship, they have to go really REALLY big and bulky...
yeah i do like the Brinok and as i say. now their on a more defensive footing. mobility isn't so much an issue, what counts now is firepower.
I still want to see a D'deridex take on a dominion battleship. Clash of the friggin titans,space edition.
You mean this? th-cam.com/video/ltm6X9UlQPE/w-d-xo.html
I would like to see a Galaxy class turned into a oversize Steam-runner packed full of fun toys with a shuttle bay housing two Defiant class ships. I'm sure that would take out a Dominion battleship. It's sad to think crewmen had to bunk together so Doctor Crusher and Troi could have Yoga rooms.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 A suggestion from the man himself?! Nice!
I think I've seen one pic of the USS Lolipop not being destroyed by enemy ships. I believe it's the artist's subconscious attempt to cure a wrong. That's why I love it the way I love the Oberth class. If every ship were pretty it would ruin immersion.
Good to see brand new content, I started seeing your videos pop up recently, but many of them were from a few years ago, this gives the channel a sense of life
Yeah I've got quite an extensive back-catalogue as well as new stuff.
Idk what it is but I think the parliament class is a great look. Iv always liked the Miranda class and I think it’s a roll over and update of that class. Great video
Another fantastic video! Thank you ☺️
Glad you're feeling better, Keep up the good work!
Glad your feeling better, my sister and niece had it last week
hope their ok? wasn't too bad for me.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 yes thanks they are fine now
Great video as usual.
Interesting video. Despite being ill you’re putting out enormous content.
I really like the Janissary class. If the Hutet Class was the Bismarck Class then the Janissary Class is the Scharnhorst Class.
Could have been a terrifying combination to pair the two classes up, with a single Hutet Class, paired up with two to three Janissary Class ships with the Hutet hammering big targets like Starbases and enemy heavy warships and the Janissaries guarding her flanks and dealing with smaller warships.
Both failures….
The Germans called them pocket battleships. They could out run a full size battleship and out gun a battle curser. The Germans wasted their time building the Bismarck and it's sister ship and should have spent more time building more pocket battleships to sink convoys and hunt down Brit destroyers guarding the convoys so the U-boats could have more of a free hand in sinking supply ships fueling England but Hitler wanted his big battleships. The same goes for Tiger tank when they should have been building more Panther tanks. The Germans in short like the Dominion oversized them self to death. On the other end the Rom's already had the big war Birds on hand that filled the gap the Feds and Klingons had in their fleets outside the Galaxy class that is sadly underrated and mismanaged by space hippies.
As ussual Mr. Holiday…fantastic video. Well done. I’m enjoying the branching out of the “normal” hull forms and concepts. The doctrinal issue is quite welcome as well.
Good stuff sir.
Thank you.
Great work!
Thank you for the video. Hoping for a more in-depth look at all of these ships, especially the Klingon ships!
That was another really amazing video I enjoy watching your videos
I like the interceptor class I thought it was larger until I saw this video commenting on the parliament class it looks like a mix between galaxy parts and the new lunar class design but a good video
Yeah there's contradictory information but the creator put it at 170m and it seems to be scaled for that.
Sad you didn't include the Achilles class in with the Federation ships.
It's a bit big for my liking.
Parliment reminds me of a updated maranda
that's all it is.
in the same way a nebula is. just way bigger.
Did the Defiant class ever use the wolf pack tactic during the Dominion war. If so I imagine it would have been quite affective.
Very likely, we just never saw many Defiants on screen
So the defiant would deploy in attack wings of 4 supported by 4 miranda or sabers
where their ever enough of them?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 more like six. Using the hammer and anvil tactic with steamrunner and sabre classes.
@@timesthree5757 they would sometimes be supported by sabers but you'd never get more than 4 defiants together unless your in a massed big wing
I liked the idea of taking ships such as Excelsior and arming them with better weapons and shields.
Looking forward to the Breen video!
as am i. they're an interesting bunch.
Respectfully, one small note. In the TMP era movies you see that the wingtip disrupters are on turrets. So wing width and deflection doesn't matter. Love your channel!
Yeah but on the bird of prey it's limited traverse though we do see that in ST5
*Disruptors
Norgh strikes me as an Assault BoP. Heavier armed and Armoured, but probably still using the same tactics as the B'Rel.
T'Chava Kal seems to fill the same light carrier job as the Akira.
Interceptor class is a cool design, I like how it looks, but I don't seem much of a point to it. We don't see really any of the new federation ships as being all that slow. Exception being the Warp-8 limited Nova. But I've already mentioned how I don't like having too many new designs for Starfleet which already has plenty of classes from Before and after the Brahms era and doesn't need more in my opinion.
Variants of existing designs though. That would be cool.
It is really cool seeing the extra Klingon and Cardassian ships though since we only ever got to see three or so designs and having a few more fills out their fleets to make more sense.
Romulan's are in desperate need of more than one ship for sure.
Yeah personally I felt the need for a little more variety. So that you have reserve, line, and elite units
The romulans have a very particular set of tactics which results in less variation
Norge almost sounds like a Certain Ferangi LOL.
Its good your feeling better now. Can't wait for the next video. (Will you ever do ship chat on the yeager class?)
maybe ;) the most important class of the war.
your content is excellent and knowone should be worried about a small absense if you keep up the great work
Would love to see a vid on Prometheus formations or doctrines. Does it use multi vector in tandem with othe ship classes? Or maybe it uses multivector with other Prometheus class ships! All of a sudden 2 ships become 6 ships.
Yeah. Interestingly enough drachinifel has some interesting ideas on the prometheus
The Prometheus would be an absurd gamw changer. Altho would it generate a whole new line of ships ? Or would be conaidered too overplanned ?
A "solid ship" would be a more durable and simple to maintain investment ?
I dont know.
But i imagine the prometheus as a class be an asset spread very thun due to its impressive capabilities to turn the tide of an entire battlefield
The parliament class reminds me abit of the Ares class from the four years wars
i see what you mean. although a lot bigger of course.
Cheers.
Yes it seems like novas were standard in galaxy battle group's.( wings)For recon and i suspect better sensors, maybe for identifying cloaked vessels ?
Parliament Class looks like they redesigned the Miranda Class using the Sovereign Class as a base.
more of a mix between galaxy and sovereign
I tend to think the Cardassians had the right idea by simply upgrading the Galor/Keldon frame. That frame is so dependable and rugged and easy to build. Perfect size for a good medium cruiser (and heavy cruiser for the Keldon). Perfect for continuous upgrades. Must be very modular inside since we saw it in canon going from the Trager which was meh, to the Type III that was ok, and then to the latest type upgraded during the Dominion War with a shocking amount of firepower for a ship that size nuking BoPs, Breen Frigates and Jem Hadar bug fighters with one shot (so that heavy Spiral Wave is about a Type XII in power). And all that without the disruption to supply chains and build times by introducing tons of new ship designs. Just cranking out the upgraded "Type IV" Galors by the bushel. For after the War, they can roll with those newer Galors and Keldons, and probably even upgrade them to a Type V with the Dominion weapons the Dominion wouldn't put in them (replacing some of the smaller spiral waves with Polaron Cannons), use them as a shield for a decade while building a whole new line of ships that are true fusions of Dominion and Cardasssian technology.
Yeah your hitting the nail right on the head. Look out for the Galor Mk4
I like that the Klingons get an attack carrier. I kinda wonder how well the tactic works in the Dominion War. I also wonder if, with it's acceleration, the Constellation class could be used the same way. It's got seven bays on it's saucer.
Yeah the constellation class is another good example.
WOW liked the ships. Keep it up Venom Geek but one question. Why didn't the Federation and Klingons use combat drones to fight the dominion?
Hey Venom are you going to introduce the Yeager class you know that ship but sometimes hangs out in the background of some episodes of DS9?
it would've been nice if we got some of these ships in ds9 but I would've would've liked to have seen more of the anti borg ships along with what was the klingons & romulans answer to the borg
I don't think the klingons ever worried about the borg. But the romulan approach would be interesting.
About the Feds, What are the Mighty Oberths being used for at this point? i mean other then suicide drones to smash into Bug ships. Are we going to see new Dominion ship types?
i like the new cardassian ships, especially the spartan class, it looks almost shark like from the side! My only issue with them is the VERY greck names to their ship classes becasue it doesn't sound lke alien ships and two it kinda takes away some agency from the Cardassains themselves. Also i am sure that it would get conusef with Federation ships that would have similar names LOL. do Cardassians have Burst fire PT launchers on any ships yet? ALSO, how you teased us woih the breen was EVIL! LAUGHING IN WAYOUN!
Oberth was still being used in recon and electronic warfare roles. And no the cardassians don't have burst fire launchers
Does anyone know where to find a cardassian hebitian class model? I have not been able to and the steam workshop on does not work for what I need
I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that you place frigates as more powerful than destroyers. It seems to me that you mention light cruisers and frigates and sometimes skip the destroyers and I would consider some of the vessels you mentioned (frigates and light cruisers) as destroyers, especially for fleet action. If we are following the wet navy convention, frigates are actually slower, less well armed destroyers OR a large well armed corvette with much greater range, endurance and seakeeping intended for escort duty. They were often too slow to keep up with a fleet. The Royal Navy reintroduced the term frigate in WW II for convoy escort. As expected, they tend to focused more on anti-sub capabilities with a bit of anti-air. The frigate was more than capable armed merchantman commerce raiders with heavier assets for serious surface raiders, like heavy cruisers or battleships. The German destroyers did not have the range against trans-Atlantic convoys and Germany simply did not have light cruisers. The American equivalent were the destroyer escorts, basically baby destroyers. The Pacific was a different story in that many Japanese naval officers felt commerce raiding was beneath them. lol
Light cruisers were often used as destroyer leaders. They were not really used as frigate leaders. I meant to comment on your last video on the Kriosians adn Klingons, but got ted up. As a side note, I can see frigtes acting as leaders for corvettes and gunboats. Later, in the missile age, frigates picked up more speed, but were often used as picket ships (anti-sub and anti-air) for US carrier groups. For all intents and purposes, the difference between light and heavy cruisers disappeared with the gun as the primary weapon system.
yeah i know in the modern day Destroyers are more anti air and frigates anti submarine. i use the terms in reference to their earliest definitions. so frigates are small ships to go off and do independent duties. whilst destoyers are often part of a fleet and wolfpack larger ships or hunt smaller attack ships
@@venomgeekmedia9886
What you are describing are frigates in the Age of Sail, and they were also considered "cruisers". Frigates did not exist in WW I.
The history of destroyers have undergone significant changes (massive mission creep lol). They were originally torpedoboat destroyers. However, their size and mission grew so they became fleet escorts and open ocean torpedo boats. They really didn't do independent duties till WW II. I could be wrong, but Ithink that was mainly in the Pacific by the Japanese and Americans because the area of conflict was so huge.
In WW II, frigates (and the US destroyer escorts) were reintroduced basically had escort duties and not much else. I am sure there may be a few additional duties, like some coastal sub hunting. However, mordern frigates (after WW II) did not do independent cruises until the missile age.
The Navies are a real pain in this regard. LOL For all intents and purposes, there really should not be a differentiation between light and heavy cruisers today and in Star Trek. The only reason there was any differentiation betwen cruisers was because of the Washington Navy Treaty. Today, be have small and large frigates and destroyers with no clear delineation as did the Treaty cruisers.
And don't get me started on the "dreadnought" classes. LOL
What battles did the Prometheus fight in
the breen raiding squadron and jem,hadar attack elements
Jannisary looks for me more like nextgen Galor, which by late 70s (for example in Bridge Commander) was basically obsolete being little more than just a punchbag for most other vessels, which is sad considering it was not that old, especially when compared to its Fed counterparts, like Miranda or Ambassador
I'd personally use the Nova class for marine assault forces. It's a small ship, incredibly tough for its size but capable of planetary landings. It's a perfect ship for delivering troops, vehicles and their supplies to a surface when transporters are non functional and shuttles would be just shot down, using its shields to provide cover during deployment and close sub orbital tactical strikes.
Have say eight working together, each loaded with a marine company, get down to a surface quickly, off load and get back into orbit and provide cover fire.
Interesting idea.
It always bugged me Starfleet never really had any surface to orbit heavy lift capability. Transporters can jammed or affected by certain natural disasters preventing evacuation, Although the intrepid can land I think it's much more limited to landing sites. The Nova is slower at warp but that can be improved with a slightly beefed up warp core. I'd put four or six Novas attached to a Galaxy, Nebula or ambassador the larger vessel carries a marine expedition unit acting as the core support/heavy hitter while the Novas act as scouts/assault/landing ships or fast attack craft.
I left a comment yesterday and after I remembered that vgm98 say's a lot there is anti cardassian bias's most of the cardassian ship's in this video are a significant step forward in design and overall performance and they did this in a short amount of time compared to the other major powers develop ment time l
yeah the cardassians spend a lot of the 24th century playing catch-up. and by the end of if they really are starting to look competitive especially in STO.
Janisary wass orginaly an assault ship in Star Trek Armada 2 . The tail I asume is from there
yeah. for me the Keldon handles that role.
Love anything you say🖖
I get what your saying about the parliament class but i think its meant to be a sovereign version of the miranda like the galaxy has the nebula class.
Don't think so. They have very different engines I think it's just it's own thing
@@venomgeekmedia9886 you could be right the nacelles are nothing alike i just thought the saucer and the swept back angles joining the saucer to the rest was alot like the sov. why so few phasers?
the "D10" looks very similar to the strongest Romulan ship from 1997 "Star Trek Starfleet Academy" game
The parliament class looks like a late Centaur class to me anyway
New viewer here: Where do you get all this info from?
So a lot of these ships are either from licensed games. Or a fan designs. In terms of the lore. That's mostly my head cannon.
Wouldn't having two ships on the periphery of combat be a good thing. When one ship Who's In the Heat of the Kombat has its Shield broken or suffers moderate structural damage can try and swap out and take the pressure off one ship. You can also employ those two ships in a sniper roll, waiting for an enemies shield to break the hammering in everything if the have a good lock.
yes. rotation is good. but its easier for a Battlegroup commander to do that at the wing level. rather than having to micromanage individual ships
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I counter he doesn't have too, comes into the fight with one ship above and below the ecliptic with standing orders to snipe at enemy ships when shields are down until another ship becomes damaged and replace that in on the line while it withdraws or if not severely damaged take up the sniping role. It's not about mircomanaging its about good tactical training, timing, and execution of simple battle doctrine.
So no new ships and tatctics for the dominion?
other than the dominion battleship which i've covered elsewhere. no not really.
i liked that you said the Nova class is a little better armed than an Oberth... i'm sorry but "a little" ? XD the Nova is a full on warship next to an Oberth, lol XD
Since when is a Luna more powerful than an Akira?
i honestly think the luna class was a late addition to the war, similar to the centurion tank in ww2. and i don't know if it's more powerful, but it may have more capabilities
I believe the luna was made after the war , almost 4 years after, and its faster and carried quantum torpedoes and more powerful phrases so yes more powerful than akira , or more advanced, 8 years or so more advanced
According to the books, it was made after the war. It is also a long range science ship. The books are always talking about how the ship is not powerful. The akira is stupidly overpowered and is a heavy cruiser carrier.
@@MercShame yes in the books the luna prototype was launched and destroyed in an accident during its shakedown cruise, uss titan was second, but it was an exploration vessel, more or as advanced as a sovereign, and she carried quantum torpedoes and the akira didn't, yes was very powerful, and had lots of weapons, but its mainly a carrier and artillery ship , but a sovereign or a luna could taker her imo . On paper anyway.
@@shanenolan8252 most sources say the akira can fire quantums from the weapons pod. So, firing quantums from the three on the front of the pod and two on the back, and photons from the ten others all over the ship. Launching fighters as well, puts this thing at an extreme power rating. The luna is very light on weapons. It's only got plot armor.
Jesus Christ the interceptor is tiny. Now THAT is an attack ship! Just hope it's not too expensive like the defiant...
Yes it's a lot cheaper. Far less armor and much more efficient engines.
The steamrunner pic shows it way too big next to defiants. Surely thats not right
I wonder what o the Phalanx class
Just looked that up feels like a sovereign variant.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Plus a Galaxy update with 2 Warp Cores, Pulse Phasers and Phaser Lances as a Battlecruiser
After the loss of the Odyssey one meantally forgotten is for a time our shields were useless and we need more power to phasers as the Dominion knew where and how to hit the Odyssey as remember there first shock at the next to cut main power and at the nacelle to scam the warp reactor safety leaving token power to the Phasers
They crippled it in a first strike and then destroyed it as a show a two for one knock out
Phalanx loaded and serve somewhat as a Assault Ships or Carriers as well
She was built to take a pounding as seen when engaging a Cube
Hello Venom I've been a fan of yours since the your third wings of Romulan video and I have to say what you've done in your backstories through all your videos I have incorporate a little bit of the it into my if that's alright if not that's fine too but coming to the point I have to disagree with you on 1 thing you're interpretation of Federation Fleet groupings i have two points.
First according to Captain Janeway when they ran into the equinox Starfleet regulations say that when faced in a tactical situation involving more than one captain command goes to the captain that has tactical superiority now this is only when a flag officer is not present let everyone debate as they will.
the second point in Deep Space Nine sixth season in operation return and this is just my interpretation Galaxy and Cruiser wings work more along the lines of World War 2 United States aircraft carrier groups we see after the recap in the second of that 2 parter galaxy-class ship flanked by two Cruiser size vessels either Akira or Excelsior class ships that leaves me to conclude that a actual Galaxy wing is pair this way along with 2 or 4 smaller vessels such as Defiance or Miranda's. Cruiser Wings are similar an Akira at Excelsior flanked by smaller vessels my third point is when the fleet is gathering at Starbase 375 we see in a previous episode maybe two group of 3 to 4 Miranda's in formation that to me is a squadron and your whole two ships make a squadron can also work because in those frames at Starbase 375 we also see two or three excelsiors in the background.
I hope that this will inspire you in your future content thank you for your time have a nice day live long and prosper
yeah i agree with you first point. so in those pairs the senior captain would lead.all 6 would be under the command of a commodore (Depending on the type of wing.)
when it comes to wing composition in Sacrifice of angels if you watch carefully you can see 4 galaxies attacking the line. so that was my initial basis. Galaxy wings are part of a larger battlegroup (3-4 wings) so you would see other supporting units.
and i very much agree with your assessment of the 4 ship squadron and as i say that was the formation but in the late war squadrons dropped to 3 especially for larger ships
@@venomgeekmedia9886 fair enough however in my mind the ranks of Commodore and Fleet Captains have been retired in the 24th century and the structure of the ranking system goes Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral, Admiral, Vice Admiral, and Fleet Admiral.
I'm not trying to be rude or mean just letting you know how I've interrupted Star Trek cannon
I think Klingon have bird of prey squadrons of 5 for raiding.
varies a full b'rel wing is 10. so 1 flagship and then 3 squadrons of 3 which are ideal for hit and run tactics.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 fair enough, there was another federal warship the Achilles class , from the dominion war game . Seems like it was commissioned and launched in two years to take out cardassion and jemhadar battleships and destroy ketracel white facilities.
@@shanenolan8252 yeah people have mentioned achilles before. Personally I feel like it's unessesary
@@venomgeekmedia9886 fair enough
I might be wrong but in voyager doesnt janeway explain that nova class ships are science vessels and cant go faster than warp 6. They could be upgraded but a science vessel frame and a small one aswell is not a good option for combat upgrades or engines as alot of power would be needed and the hull wont be tough if its made to go warp 6 or less. Changing a science ship to a reconnaissance ship isnt practical. It would need to be a nova mk 2 or whatever. If there are officially nova class recon ships in the dominion war then its wrong. St Picard has a more agressive version of the nova so im told with steamrunners. If anyone sent a nova to chase a ship it deserves to be wrecked in one shot.
I really like how you say, I'll Say No More at the end of a comment. I tried doing that in conversation with my wife and let's just say that did not go well.
REALLY? THE PARLIMENT LOOKS LIKE A LATE 24TH CENTURY RELIANT TO ME.
Anything from. Jar jar Abrams universe doesn't count, not in ds9 timeline
I love this channel, until it gets to Cardassian and Romulan jerkoff sessions. Starfleet ships are the pinnacle of the arms race. It is canonical Sovie/Dominion Battleship>Akira/Dominion warship/Negvar=Galaxy war refit/d'deridex=intrepid=defiant>D'deridex standard=>ambassador refit/Lakota refit/keldon/galor/K'vort/Vorcha.
Cardassian ships are unimpressive and underpowered. Maxwell's Nebula-class Phoenix was enough to completely and utterly disrupt Cardassian shipping amd "research". One single ship.
Meh
wow some really bad designs in here. the boreth and d10 are really bad. almost no design work in that d10. i could not get through the video past this design
to each their own. the D-10 was a FASA design but the Boreth is a relatively modern fan design.