TLDR - I needed Jordan to not be a Christian so that I could feel safe as an atheist to listen to him talk about the Bible. If Jordan had said he was Christian, I would have dismissed him as being biased and trying to propagandize me. -- What makes Jordan liked by a lot of ex-Christians is that he allows a space to exist for questions. When I was a Christian back in the 90s, you were told to have “blind faith.” I found this so utterly ridiculous that I left the church and was an atheist for 20+ years. I found JBP and listened to his college lectures which I found to be mind expanding. I avoided the Genesis lectures and listened to them last. I didn’t want anything to do with religion for a LONG time. But I came into the lectures with the thought that maybe it was good to consider their symbolic meaning as a type of mythology and interesting historical significance. I found God again through those lectures. My closed atheistic heart opened up a little bit to God and I’ve been growing in my faith ever since. It’s like Jordan Peterson was that tiny little opening that then had God slam the door wide open. I will forever be grateful to God for using Jordan Peterson to bring me back to Him. I don’t think I would have ever come back in any other way. I needed Jordan to not be a Christian so that I could feel safe as an atheist to listen to him talk about the Bible. If Jordan had said he was Christian, I would have dismissed him as being biased and trying to propagandize me. God works in mysterious ways. I’ve stopped questioning things like this. Jordan’s path to God is his own. I just know that God used Jordan to get me back and for that I will always be grateful for Jordan Peterson.
Yes, totally. The speakers in this video seem to be jumping past some key ideas -- mainly that we don't know God's will. Given that JP has brought so many people either into the church or many many miles closer than they were before, they might have more respect for how God's message is passing through Jordan. He serves others in total commitment and with such love, is it for us to say anything about him, at all? His words have opened doors in people's lives, by speaking fromthe doorway to the church, rather than from within it.
The Young Earth Creationists will just chase us away....again. Insisting that Genesis be read like a history book, the earth is literally 6K years old, humans and dinosaurs coexisted.... crazy zealous crap that if you don't agree with you aren't a real Christian.
I was an athiest my whole life, taught to scoff at the religious, to hate religion and dismiss God with "science". JBPs psychological analysis of the biblical stories blew my mind.
Lovely story. Thank you for sharing. I share something of the same as well but not quite as "slammed shut" as you. I believed in god, but not the God. Jordan helped me find a love of the Truth which sent me on a long journey of Truth-Seeking: leading me to Christ. "Seek and you shall find, knock, and the door will be opened". Needless to say, I fully believe God to be a rational God and so he created rational beings and gave us rational minds which we can use, in a truly honest manner, to look at the evidence and find Him. There is indeed evidence. Faith in Christ is not blind in the same way faith in your airline pilot is not blind. Peace be with you.
He's brought a lot of people back to faith and breathed credibility of Christianity in our secular world. I'm not frustrated with him. I'm hopeful for him. 🙏
@@CMA418 try worrying about yourself, I’m not even a Peterson fan but you clearly have a problem with yourself that you’re just projecting onto other people
When I was a spiritual surfer, and antagonistic to Christianity, I thought all the Christian words were fuzzy interchangeables: righteousness, mercy, salvation, atonement, all empty words about nothing. Christians were just foolish enough to think it was real. So when Mel Gibson's "Passion" came out I was asked to write about it for a secular newspaper, and in differentiating between the substitutionary atonement and the idea of theosis, I wrote a short, two-sentence summary of theosis that I thought came out very well. I was proud of how precisely I was able to explain it, accurately and clearly, yet in so few words. But the editor came back to me and said, "It just sounds so *theoretical*." That was eye-opening to me! To him, my wonderful explanation was just blah-blah words, as I thought all Christian words were, 50 yrs ago. All of which to say--Jordan re-framing the language is vital, for people to understand it at all.
Well answered Jonathan. It's a shame that some Christians just want to claim Jordan for "their side". He's a remarkable man and has done more to help evangelize than most churches. Society obviously needs his voice. He helps people think through the bombardment of garbage we hear and see everyday of our life.
I wouldn't say it's a shame. It's understandable given Jordan's soul is on the line. Christianity isn't utilitarianism. Converting people without full belief yourself is denying the greatest gift. It'd be a shame if people accepted his utility and did NOT want more for Jordan. Hope he comes around.
My guess most people want that for the same reason i wanted my friends to come to the orthodox church. Because I found the Truth and I want with all my heart the best for everyone.
@@Tarantula-hawk Gatekeeper implies he controls who gets in. You are free to listen and read his content and anyone can be a Christian if they choose. Where is the “keeping” in that?
My former atheist brother has come to believe in God because of listening to Jordan Peterson. Jordon is “Building a metaphysical reality for those who dont know” as you said. Thank you, Jonathan Pageau, for being able to explain this! I’m an artist and a convert…converted through a personal encounter, not by theology.
Very true. My father in law loaned me a book to read written by a pope, I can’t remember which one, and I’m an avid reader with a decent vocabulary that was raised Roman Catholic, but that book was unreadable. I was obviously not the intended audience which is ok, but most of the time we’re not speak the same language
We need to teach young children the Scriptures at a young age. This is important. The Truth must be taught once again as opposed to the lies that now have flooded modern society making it easy for man and his Satan god to find basic History and the Gospel so challenging. We need Christians to take control once again - instead of the Enemy which is what anti-Christians actually are.
@@matthewstokes1608 I found teaching me religion as a kid drove me away , in my catholic schools almost none of the young lads had any interest in it because of being taught scripture . It just served to make sure we all abandoned church the first chance we got. That was almost every young lad i knew .
@@gingerbill128 Me too... that's my point. I was educated very strictly in the 60s/70s - at a draconian English public boys' boarding school. I went out into a fallen, selfish, self-loving world, - and I became like a pig in shit .... I was the most hedonistic man on Earth... I was into women and drink and speed (of any kind) ... I was into sheer enjoyment and the pleasures of the world and gorged myself - just as I was taught by my country's and epoch's new and revolutionary, repulsive culture .... I hurt people looking back - made some bad choices - became an addict - saw some really dark and disturbing things unfold in violent crimes .... I guess I made a 'god' of mankind and his culture - or of woman - or myself - or pleasure... I was a big sinner at times. At 57 I remarried a Mexican woman of amazing style - a Catholic - a lady.... I live in Mexico now. after decades in the US... I can only tell you I woke up - suddenly - after a chain of near fatal events. My life was turned completely on its head... I realized as I faced death one night on a deserted beach, in an epiphany as I faced the ocean - mentally preparing for suicide that I suddenly knew categorically that God - Christ - the Bible - the entire HIStory of the Scriptures - every miracle involved - was all absolute, indestructible Truth. I was given this opportunity to come to terms with this massive gift... to REPENT... I wept like a child... He came for me... Why? I have no idea why - I don't know how I deserved this - but He came for me - and I went to Him with all my heart - and I have been literally reborn... This radically knew experience in life would probably never have happened without such an English education in the Christian Scriptures.... (Why Christian? Because, as He said, He alone is the way to God in Eternity. There are no other ways - no other religions - or paths, but Him.) WHERE has that education I was given now gone? Y'know, the same education that our ancestors have had for countless centuries, in the Faith... Satan now runs the show in no uncertain terms. (Christ did say this unsettling thing "Satan is the god of this world". Think about it! I loathe Satan now... I reckon I always did. I am a total Christian - and I would fight anyone to the death for Him - as He knows. We need to take our country back - and fight for the sake of our kids - and all the innocents who must be taught the ways of Jesus Christ.
Jonathan articulates perfectly my frustration about some TH-cam preachers. You can't just approach hyper-secularized people on a pride event and then say "for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son...". They understand the sentence but they don't understand what it actually means. If only they can be a bit like Jordan, those people may be more willing to listen.
Much more frustrated to see all the christians regarding JBP's conversion as a trophy and displaying their lack of faith by wanting outer confirmations to substitute their own supressed doubts.
Agree. Christians think they are God walking around with their magnify glass on people asking “hmm, you haven’t said the magic prayer, therefore you’re not saved”. This is between them and God. You shall know a tree by its fruit and Jordan Peterson really cares and has sweated blood more than most in my view
He basically said it's no one's business because if he's not a convert it undermines the value in Christianity he's been presenting to people and if he says he is then he will have the puritanical heresy hunters amongst the christians plaguing him telling him what academic pursuits he can and can't engage in. He's right about both scenarios. Personally I think his ability to express what Christianity is comes from his own Salvation experience.
I think more that many Christians don't even know what believing in Jesus or God means. It often sounds like affirming words. Are you Christian because you say the correct words and convince yourself that you believe them? Wouldn't a real Christian be willing to give up everything? I don't see much of people selling all their posessions and giving to the poor. Most people give away some of their surplus, as long as they can feel materially safe. Jesus is so radical in his demands, that I don't think many people are actually following him. Giving away 10% is also practiced in Islam for instance. Even atheists donate to charity.
I like Jorden, but his interview with Musk he kept interrupting and seemed nerves. I think he is struggling hard now. I hope he comes to believe fully and stops fighting it. I think he fears the implications and public backlash for it if he does. He knows it will lead to attacks for it. Like he is struggling with them now, but it will make it worse. He has not surrendered to God yet and his intellect is in the way. I pray for him to see the light.
I actually think it's the opposite. I feel he doesn't believe in the truth claims of the Bible but knows what will happen if he admits to being agnostic. I'm more of the mind that he places higher importance on the results of being a Christian rather than the more supernatural aspects such as salvation and damnation. If he came out and said he doesn't believe in God then his more religious followers would indict him as a grifter instead of seeing the real value in what he's saying, which is that we must behave as Christ commanded even if there is no reward for it.
@@ShadowNetWeaver1 he needs our prayers, because you right : ) I actually think he is a grifter, most of his explanations are word salad. It’s embarrassing.
Also explains why The Lord of the Rings has converted people who read the Bible and didn’t get it and suddenly in that story get it. As a Catholic revert for instance, I struggled with mother Mary and connection with her, until I experienced Galadriel, and suddenly Mary clicked- I don’t know why, can’t explain it- but as Jonathan says, perhaps Tolkien’s belief and view of Mary though not imbued allegorically in his character just seeped through in some things- almost interpreting mystical ideas in a language that was new and yet more familiar and less distant. And sometimes the distance is due to having heard it so many times that it becomes inaccessible. It’s like when you start to study Shakespeare and you’re struggling and you read the story in prose, and when you go back to it you wonder why you even struggled. Jordan Peterson made me read the Bible differently and I finally understood so much of what early Church fathers were saying.
Very well put. I am also a Catholic revert, and Jordan (along with Pageau) helped me understand much about our rich faith. I am in my mid-30s, and I am presently re-reading Lord of the RIngs, which I read in my teens. It is a much deeper experience, and your comment has me excited to re-encounter Galadriel. Thank you!
Dear Symbolic World people, please create primary and secondary education curriculums/lists of things to use to teach children that replaces the western worldview curriculums. Thank you.
There's plenty of materials/organizations out there to help children to develop a Christian world-view - if parents are really serious about obeying God's command to teach their children in the way of truth and righteousness they could start by homeschooling their children according to Christian homeschooling curricula, no shortage of options there...
People who have grown up with a Christian worldview are given the benefit of shortcuts to meaning, but the tradeoff is their inability to explain how they got to their meaning outside of their tradition. Jordan is excellent at explaining the shortcuts, and the reason someone like him is necessary is because our culture has been losing the traditions from which its shortcuts to meaning derive and needs a new (or, I would argue, an even older--pre Catholic Church) way of understanding our story. That's why Jordan focuses so much on narrative and archetype--these ways of understanding are very old and more deeply rooted in the collective consciousness than Catholic/Christian traditions.
Exactly. I was brought up Christian, went a bit prodigal son in my 20s and 30s, now back to the faith. Talking to people about Christianity to people lately has been such an eye-opener to how little exposure to the Bible people have these days. Even atheists my age know the basics of what's in the Bible, but the younger generation just haven't the faintest clue. It's astounding the depths of information in the Bible. Every perspective can add something. Many Christians have a dim view of Jews (replacement theologists especially) yet you can learn so much more from the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, when Jewish culture is explained. I've learned a huge amount from JP as well as his psychological explanations have added entirely new dimensions to Bible stories and themes that I thought I knew well. Turns out, I know very little 😂
Christians like those 2 are criticizing Jordan peterson for not being simple enough. Johnathan is then highlighting that Jordan is playing a far more complex role than simply believing. Without someone like Jordan I might have never found God. These Christians demand for simplicty is disrespectful and what pushes millions away from the faith. @@Built_By_Bacon
Let's imagine. Young western men wouldn't have been led away from nationalism and might have saved their countries. JP represents zionists who want the west destroyed
Jonathan, Glory to God for your work. For too long Christians across the world have been ridiculed about believing in the old testament stories and Christians had to look for unconvincing explanations. With your work and what Jordan is doing, it’s a whole different story, feels like a new era where Christians can stand straight, shoulders back and raise kids teaching about Old Testament stories with confidence.
Absolutely!!! 1 Billion percent. Actual Truth Within Long Tradition has been (( Well we might say warped /Transformed over time/thousands of years.)) Jordan is in the process of opening/looking/seeing/wrestles to understand the actual reality of WHO OUR CREATOR ACTUALLY IS, HIS TRUTH, WITHOUT Our, aka mankind’s Implanted DISTORTIONS. Jordan Struggles because what he is learning as HE SEEKS OUR CREATOR WITHIN HIS OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS/OUR CREATOR ISN’T WHAT WE HAVE GROWN TO TAKE AS TRADITIONAL TRUTHS. CORRUPTION WITHIN THE SYSTEM OF MANKINDS MAKING HAS OVERSHADOWED TRUTH. I Believe Jordan Is Right On Track, the world /universe needs someone representing TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING ELSE. I Believe Jordan Has Been Given Insight(s) Into THAT TRUTH. Aman! And HE IS SHARING EVERYTHING AS HE UNCOVERS OUR CREATOR’S TRUTH.
Pageau is right. At the beginning of my conversion to Catholicism, Catholics would speak to me in a language completely foreign to me. They’d speak as if something they’re saying is common sense. But ten years of mental and emotional anguish later, and even during the process, I recognized most Christians and Catholics know words but don’t even know the meaning of their words or language. But they think they do, and we all know what a hopeless situation THAT is. I learned on my own. I didn’t have a choice.
Yes, that's true, Jonathan. Christians can't seem to talk without using specialized terms, and Jordan is able to get to the truth of the matter not ysing them. Makes more sense to me, and I'm a Christian. I love listening to Jordan.
I have always felt awkward about people pushing on Jordon for a conversion, or a confirmation of his beliefs. As a Christian, I do want him to become one, but as a person who enjoys learning about life and the world from different people- I don’t particularly care. I think people are concerned that he is the only or main voice in Christian’s lives- but at least I like to listen to him, think in the ideas and put them against the Word, other preachers I listen to and experiences.
Exactly this. I was raised Roman Catholic but stopped practicing because no one could explain things to me in a way that made any type of sense and so it all felt like control and shame. Then listening to Jordan started to make things make sense and I started to contemplate returning to the church, but I tell you, all it takes is reading some comments from some of these supposedly Christian believers and I remember the reasons I left in the first place. So ready to judge, so full of their own pride, so self righteous. It’s gross. No wonder so many of us left. They are so quick to point out the luciferian in others and can’t see it in themselves. No one has any right to be frustrated with anyone else’s walk is exactly right. Only God will judge what’s in our hearts.
Tbh it sounds like y'all are frustrated too. I understand where you're coming from as he's the reason I'm Christian now; but I can't exactly say I agree with his attempt at secularizing Christianity because that's how we got to this post modern mess in the first place. I love Jordan and he'll always have a place in my heart but this writing off of concern doesn't actually solve anything to me. We need to resist the secularization of Christianity as materialist perspectives are a trap for the mind and soul
@@mfkent5201all Jordan is doing is explaining Christianity to the secular. He’s not trying to secularize Christianity, which is why he doesn’t claim to be a Christian.
@@mfkent5201I didn’t say he was “best describing it”. Perhaps there is someone else doing it better but he knows how to talk to the secular and 95% of Catholics don’t know how to do that.
Look, all my life I struggled understanding the language of the Bible. Through Jordan I was able to start making sense of it. Then with Johnathan bring in the symbolism and fractal aspect of reality, then Vervaeke with the cognitive aspect through human history, finally with the Bishop bringing the Catholics view. I live in a very different, vibrant and alive world now that these men have given this new lens. Forever thankful for the work these men , and others, are doing.
Many Christians who blindly follow without understanding deeply the symbolism and context behind Christianity and Jesus’s messages. Are the same who will lose faith when they get swayed or complacent.
I personally feel Dr. Peterson is the rich man who asks Jesus how to follow Him, and Jesus answers, sells everything, and follow me. Dr. Peterson's riches are his intellect and what he has seen it gain him. Giving up the thing that's helped you most in life is really scary. Good thing we know what we, as Christians, get the best gift ever imaginable when we do truly follow Christ.
@cromi4194 to truly follow Christ means He is living within you. It isn't something you have control over. Selling everything is a metaphor for being willing to give up that which is most important to you for the sake of Christ. It doesn't have to mean physically selling things, but it could. Hope that helps! God bless you and keep you!
We need both. Jordan, with his human wresting lead me from the secular world-view towards the Christian path. Bishop Barron provides illumination for the path I now try to walk.
Hey, JBP opened up the Bible for me, brought me back to my faith and introduced me to Bishop Barron and Jonathan Pageau. His wife Tammy is even the recipient of a miracle brought about through Mary's intercession. In my book he has gained nigh infinite credit. The Holy Spirit will call him at the time of His choosing. Trust in the Lord and let go.
The lack of confidence on what the truth is before one knows the truth is one of the reasons Peterson is popular. It is great that Christians want Peterson on their “team” but teams are part of the current problem and I personally believe that religious people also have a bitter pill to take despite them thinking that they have arrived at the Truth
The notion that one can determine whether another is a Christian or not (other than asking them) seems to be against what I see as Christian. Pride goes before the fall, and this is pride. I am a Christian because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and what you think about my being or not being a Christian has no bearing on that. It is, however, insulting to think you believe you can judge me like that.
They have eyes but don't see, people like those of Catholic unscripted and the like are completely unengaging for non-catholics/Christians and have the gaul to criticize Jordan Peterson for the way he talks about the faith because it's not Orthodox/Christian terminology or explains the stories in a purely simplistic dogmatic way. He's done more for God and brought more people to the faith than whole Christian organizations, so judge him by his fruits as Christ taught us.
Jordan has probably brought more people to christ than anybody in the 21st century. One of the reasons he was able to do that was exactly because he doesnt just fall into stereotipical christian frame. So im not sure we should be insisting on him to become that stereotipical chistian. I can understand how youd want him to fully come into the church out of love for him though. In contrast, bishop baron only became an interesting speaker to me once I became a Christian, before that I would've never given him the time of day, cause I wasn't interested in hearing what to me seemed like the same old discourse. Now that I'm a Christian I see the value and probably enjoy his talks more than Jordan's tbh
I appreciate Jordan Peterson remaining in the narthex as he wrestles with God. It tells me he senses the gravity and sacredness of the ground on which he is treading and the awesomeness of God's holiness. I pray the veil which shrouds his understanding is ripped in two and that God removes the scales from his eyes. If only all Christians strived (agonized) to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
There are a lot of difficult things in life that I never heard my priests mention. They often avoid major, charged topics and end up being definite about things that don't really matter. Jordan will talk about hardship, controversy, evil as we see it in the world today. I've never had a priest who went into any depth on any issue that would risk losing/judging people. No mention of abortion, no mention of drugs, no mention of transgenderism. When i did my pre marriage counseling, the priest did nothing but spit out pablum and platitudes. But I listen to Jordan and it continually builds a desire to seek the truth, to concentrate on the example of Christ, and to keep trying to find something in the Church despite being dismayed by the priesthood for my whole life.
Jordan didn't talk about jibbies when it mattered. Jordan invited neocons to explain the Russia-Ukraine situation. Jordan does not talk hard truths on many topics.
@@justian1772 True, but my priests removed wine from communion during COVID and still to this day. Jordan has his blind spots/personal opinions, but I don't think we need mass to include a geopolitical assessment. I'm talking about issues related to personal choices, values, and morals (relationships between self, family, society) that we encounter in our daily lives. Refereeing a war between two distant nations isn't what I'd want during mass.
@@mrRambleGamble Alls I was saying is that JP talks about things he shouldn't and ignores things he absolutely should talk about in many cases. Sorry to hear about the Wine in Communion. That didn't happen to me.
Catholicism either re-discovers its medieval masculinity (warrior ethos) or passes away. Men need more than words of love, especially when the idea of love is today so distorted and ubiquitous.
I saw a clip of the recent interview JP did with John Rich and as a Christian I personally found John Rich quite irritating how he kept pushing JP on a decision and trying to preach to him. I felt it just came across as quite patronising. It sounded like he was just trying to get him “converted” by making a “decision” on the spot. When it seems to me Jordan has a faith and is on a deep journey and wrestle with God in his own way and in Gods timing. He doesn’t need some country singer trying to preach to him and quote scripture to him that he already knows. He’s already on his own path of faith and exploration and I pray each day he will find greater revelation of truth. Not hating on the guy at all, he is clearly a courageous evangelist, just felt it wasnt right to do that in an interview with JP, came across to me and quite disrespectful and patronising, but maybe that’s just me.
Honestly, jp had a huge influence on my life. But the issue came to the point where ever since he sold to daily wire, everything just comes off as a disingenuous money grab now. As much as the jacket backlash is scoffed at, it embodies the very issue with him. The issue is he is holds back as much and for as long as physically possible from becoming a christian despite how much time he's wrestled with the stories, but yet he was more than happy to jump into making a profit off christians and their iconography. It gets to the point where it either looks like hes milking christians for money, or just can't let go of his purely intellectual worldview enough to get to the next level that would help him understand the stories fully. It makes him look like a grifter. Its like he wants the perks of faith without the reaponsibility or commitment. And it seems lile deep down he doesn't want the weight of accountability which belief instills. Which is also my suspicion of why he speaks to atheists so well since its the same mindset.
@@leondbleondb after it was initially paywalled on dw. Also the jacket and memorabilia sales he goes for which features iconography. Either for sales or to boost his image through controversy which he profits off of. He's been profiting off christians for a long time. And the bigger issue is if these stories have deep meanings in reality, and are true to him, then why is not moved by them enough to take the plunge in order to fully understand them through experience?. So yeah, hard not to think he's just trying profit without any tagible commitment.
@@AwesomeWholesome there's nothing for me to forgive with him. Just saying that people need to get a grip with him, and not become a personality cult. Especially since money is clearly the priority. He's Showing us in real time what dantes inferno level of limbo looks like. So close, but so far. Always going in circles but never up.
I think that JBP has a unique perspective that drew (and continue to draw) people in towards the Bible, in a way that evangelizing Christians and apologists aren’t doing. Or can’t do. I think too, it was important that he did not automatically reveal his beliefs, because that would have hindered his message to people locked off from church-based Christianity. I remember him saying he didn’t want that guru-like position, and the thing was just to try and think things through. He eventually had/has millions thinking things through with him.
He's acting in the spirit of St Christopher. He's struggles to be Christian himself, but he's the one at the boundary ferrying the Christ child across the river. This is what he did for me.
I'll tell you this, I grew up hardcore atheist - and for good reason. Not a million of your best Christian pastors & preachers; not the most beautiful and grandiose churches and cathedrals; no denomination; no pope; no ordinary Christian; none could have ever hoped to even come close to what JBP did for me. Because of his approach to the biblical corpus, I not only no longer label myself atheist, I am actively leaning towards Christianity. If you told me that 10 years ago, I would have probably gone out and found the nearest bridge. If there are Christians out there who are truly frustrated with this man, I'll tell you this: your frustrations are with yourself, not with him.
i totally agree, jordan explains things in a practical atheist perspective, i could not pickup nor understand christianity when people spoke to me in verses, jordan converted me, jordan’s a genius
Everyone serves a purpose in life and as many claim, Jordan Peterson has been a bridge for many to pass over from secularism to Christianity. And by definition this “bridge” would be located at the border of secularism and Christianity which is pretty much where Jordan Peterson is.
I listened to Catholic Unscripted and Bishop Baron and had no desire to become a Catholic. I unsubscribed. I listened to JP and became a Byzantine Catholic and soon so did my adult children.
This is similar to what Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick says in his book, The Lord of Spirits. He quotes St. Basil the Great saying to first become acquainted with pagan lore (pg. 142-143). "Learn the pagan texts before turning to the Bible; we must be conversant with poets, with historians, with orators, indeed with all men who may further our soul's salvation." And "what St. Basil says applies even outside the question of reading pagan literature or other texts that have such elements in them. We can treat whatever we encounter in life with the virtues of the bee, taking what is good and leaving behind the bad. One does not even have to engage in constant apologetics against the bad. One can simply leave it alone."
And "we acquire the basic skills we need for reading and interpretation with this lesser literature before we can understand the deeper things of the Bible, the "shadows" and "reflection" we apprehend before we can gaze upon the sun."
people still have a hard time understand there is no "judeo christianism", there is Christianism and there is Judaism, they are both completely separate and dare I say, they are antithetical to each other. Edit: I am all for unity, but ask any Rabbi, you cannot be a Jew and a Christian at the same time, its one or the other I wish it was not this way, I actually believe Christ means we are all Christ, the solution of usurping God is to accept it and "become" God, aka Christ, God in a position of humility and compassion, kinda like the meaning of Kabbalah actually, I dont understand why "The Jews" did not like Jesus 😔
@@MarceloSeravalli- Christ asks for you to change your heart. He is about the spirit of the law. I feel that Judaism is about the letter of the law. They did not like what Jesus was saying.
Peterson needs to be Baptised. No amount of intelligence can reveal the Miracle of the Holy Ghost. God bless Peterson for everything he has done for the truth, allow him your heavenly peace and rest.
As a child raised by and around evangelical christians and knowing that JP will have studied alchemy I can tell you they will find it to close to witchcraft and will disown him
Jbp needs to stay off twitter, get out from under the daily wire, and stay out of politics. He's slowly going mad, and undermining all the good work he has done.
I think it's fascinating he might not be ready to embrace Christ and God, but he has brought many to Christ and God, including me. God will use who he needs to use and I think from him not fully impression being a Christian has allowed him to speak to many people and bring them to Christianity.
I’m a baby Christian and I’m also dyslexic. I know how to spell the word ‘the’ until I start thinking about it…I think faith is similar, at least for us newbies anyway. I have it, actually it predates my journey into Christianity, until I start interrogating it. Then it becomes, abstract, vulnerable, slightly out of grasp. Perhaps Dr JP, especially coming from an academic data & science driven background, is having the same internal dialogue and understandably until that’s passed, and especially given his unique position in the public and political discourse, he’s keeping it personal, private, a sacred dialogue between him and God for now. And I think that’s not only right but also wise.
Christian's want feeling not knowing.. They feel like the bishop knows due to the angle of approach. But if you try to give it to them straight, they will deflect to making a circular argument with angles. This is the PI in the sky. Let the Bishop know the queen has the board and there's no way of circling.
Me neither. It's usually some form of superficial clique-iness that Christians are often accused of, like Costco employees checking membership cards at the door.
That’s an issue with her parents. Even if they are atheists, denying someone of the Biblical stories which is in so much of Western literature and culture is really quite awful. There’s probably a lot of references that fly over this kid’s head. It is sad.
For this woman, there’s a clarity when Bishop Barron speaks. That’s because you believe what he beliefs, not necessarily because he is speaking truth. For me, I have difficulty listening to Bishop Barron. I find many of the things he says lack depth. They feel like clichés rather than a genuine search for truth. Whereas when Peterson speaks about religious issues, I feel as though we are talking about the most fundamental, universal truths.
I'm not frustrated with him. I was utterly disappointed in him. I loved this man and I still love his older work. But ever since oct 7th and the war in Gaza he's changed for the worst. Or maybe is just his true colours coming to light. Regardless, this champion of freedom of speech in his origin country now wants censorship. He calls people rats in weird online rants that sound like he's not even sober. He is *for* violence. He comes off particularly hypocritical when he talks down like that to people like Fuentes but had a podcast with Destiny. *If I were to guess I'd say the devil challenges him and he's having a very rough time. For that I am praying for him and I hope more people do.* Because he's so not the man I used to look up to in 2018 and who's advice changed my life. I feel is quite profane how he wears icons on his clothes while spewing hatred. Maybe is his diet. Suffering on a bad diet made his heart soft. Now he embodies that 'monster' he advises people they should be. Idk, these are just thoughts that crossed my mind because I repeat, I loved this man. He seems now completely blind to people's criticism. Ever since he went into DW he closed himself in an echo chamber. I see no humility, patience, love, wisdom in him anymore and it breaks my heart.
You have to understand, Jordan is more of a thinker, not necessarily a believer. I think this approach is valid. It's one thing to believe in something, but to rationalize how it may be valuable outaide if faith is a very useful analytical exercise. Also, and this is key, he and most real philosophers aren't typically proposing absolute truths, they are simply stating their current idea. Which is open for debate and adjustment. I'm often frustrated by people who aren't able to understand that conversations about deep topics must require that the ideas be maleable. Dogmatism, is the death of thought.
My only issue with jordan is his insistence on using the term “Judeo” Christian values, especially since going the daily wire. The west was built on Christian values we opposed Jewish values so much we kicked them out repeatedly.
No one cares that Santa Claus isn’t “real.” They just love to have a fun story to share with their kids about the magic of Christmas. Santa is a symbol of Christmas. Pretty sure ppl don’t care that he doesn’t actually live in the North Pole.
It’s a bummer so many Christians have been hoodwinked by the evolutionary storytelling, that they have to dismiss any suggestion that Genesis one is giving an historical record.
Can we have a video calling it “the gospel according to Jordan Peterson”? What is that he says that forms the metaphysical foundation for people to come to Christianity? What can we learn from him to evangelize to “nones”?
the Priests made me go away of God.. Jordan Peterson made me got closer, untill later on I started to have faith again in God. Jordan peterson has done for many (including me) a better Job than Priests and Pastors
Jordan's hands are tied when speaking up against Isreal, as well as never spoke up about the jab... therefore is ironic in his discussions of facing biggest fears; I have learned so much from him but he is in the moment now to put words into fruition or cower
The fact that Jordan is himself genuinely struggling with these questions is appealing to others who are struggling and who are not yet believers.....he is a sort of gateway drug to coming back to the church.
The problem that I can see as a Christian with JP is that he is so committed to destroy any enemy that opposes his values and his thinking. Not to understand the other side with humility and love. And no to have a relationship to God, that has nothing to do with intelligence and intellectual games. Also how nowadays he defends anything conservative/republican views even when they are in opposition with Christian values (especial Orthodox in my personal view).
With Jordan Peterson its interesting to see how good understanding , how close, someone can get to Jesus without The Holy Spirit. So close, but still not there. I am praying for the Holy Ghost to drag him fully in.
Jordan IS a Christian, most likely a Catholic, he just doesn't know it yet. He's the ultimate skeptic! That's why he's perfectly positioned to speak to the "un-believers". He's finding his way and painstakingly dragging those who will listen, along for the ride. "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ" 1 Corinthians 3:1 .
Here’s something I’ve seen many of my fellow Christians get dead-wrong concerning Peterson: some are tempted to think that Peterson’s choice of words, in public, are instrumental and strategic. Like he is unwilling to alienate part of his audience and so he walks out onto a tightrope while concealing what he “really” believes. The issue with this view is that, first, Peterson’s commitment to truthful speech is also a commitment to the utility of truthful and transparent speech in the longest frame possible. He believes that, in the longest view possible, God rewards the righteous (if those Christians skeptical of Peterson will forgive my suggestion that he believes in God, in any sense). Peterson believes deeply in the viability and ultimate utility of righteous and truthful action and speech. This is, to him, indistinguishable from believing in God’s justice and goodness, or the goodness of the ultimate nature of reality, which is a required belief to undergird truthful (non-instrumental) speech and action. This is, ultimately, the end that he is driving at with all of his thought. It is an imperative on the individual: take responsibility, speak truthfully, and voluntarily confront the burden of reality heroically. Basically, if he was acting primarily out of opportunism or instrumentality, he would be acting in direct contradiction to the principal at the heart of everything he says. Even less compelling is the half-witted suggestion that he is acting and speaking instrumentally on the behalf of his bank account. What does he want with money? He obviously recognizes and speaks about money knowing that it is a fantastic servant but a terrible master. Mammon is not his master. Even those most committed to disparaging his character could not possibly suggest that Peterson’s life is one of cushy, decadent overindulgence. All he does is work. Secondly, one finds that Peterson’s worldview, once one has ears to hear, is remarkably consistent and tightly constructed. I’d wager that I’ve listened to and read as much Peterson as nearly any human being alive. I’ve grown up on him. He is my teacher. And I basically can predict how and what he’ll respond to any question. His consistency is remarkable. Over time, too. Though he’s changed his views and behavior a little since his fame, and before that since 1996, when he first recorded a set his of lectures, his basic worldview and meaning-making heuristic is the same. Now he is more skeptical of institutions and more singularly drawn and attracted to the complete Christian story. He is now more humble, but also more weary of vipers. In any case, I mean to say that Peterson’s worldview makes sense, once you understand it. If my fellow Christians try to read him as basically a) for my current beliefs, and thus an ally, or b) against my current beliefs, and thus an enemy, we will continue to oscillate from being perplexed at his uncrackable genius to disappointed as his stubbornness. I pray, as I imagine Peterson would too, that this does not remain to be the case for those Christians interested and awake enough to hear his words. “Those who have ears, let them hear.” Peterson is the real deal.
Also one of the things I love so much about Jonathan is that he is able to see the same things from Peterson but from within the walls of the Church. “Blessed are those who, without seeing, believed.” I do pray for Peterson’s baptism, that he would open himself to God more personally, to take a leap of faith, and that he would see and get behind the necessary creedal element of faith, which accompanies the spiritual.
Jordan is strong on works …weak on grace…which is why I think (in part) he won’t commit…to paraphrase him from past interviews. “How could I possibly live up to that demand..” (the call of faith) which demonstrates clearly his focus is on him (works) not God (grace)
Then again, maybe he is in exactly the spot where he needs to be. Bishop Barron said he (Barron) couldn't convert a lot of people because they looked at him as a Catholic bishop. Peterson, he said, serves as a bridge. I'm not going to judge him as weak on anything. Maybe God has him right where he should be.
@@kurt1391 I’m sure he has acted as a bridge for some…and I realise that he sees himself as operating on the border so to speak…and I’m certain God can and does use this..although that wasn’t the focus of my comment…and just to say…not every statement is a judgement…my thoughts are (I feel) a valid observation and conclusion based on his own words about himself. In this video Jonathan Pageau said “I don’t think he’s a Christian”…a judgement..?
Jesus was strong on good works. Unfortunately, you protestants cherry pick verses from Holy Scripture, not knowing the difference between good works and works of the Law that the Jews cling to.
@@PomazeBog1389 Hmmm…We’ve never met…So basically quick assumptions and inaccurate accusations on your part…how quickly the voices of denominational echo chambers become tiresome.
I think people get frustrated with Jordan when he doesn't say exactly what they want him to, or what they think he should say. This becomes clear in the comments that say: "I thought Jordan was the best thing ever until he said a thing I don't like or disagree with. Now I think he's literally the devil." It's the same sort of mentality as people who turn on a band when they put out an album they don't like, but more severe because it has actual social and cultural consequences. But the worst, I think, are the "christians" who make accusations regarding his faith or his journey to it. It's not your place, bro. If you are making judgements about someone else's relationship to or with God, and doing so from a platform that isn't even REAL, while that same person is moving through the world and actually bringing people closer to God, you need to stand in the corner and think about what you've done. I'm pretty sure Jesus had some pretty heavy things to say about this sort of behavior.
People are frustrated with him because he and his daughter seem to act weirdly in some political matters and because se seems to be unsincere regarding his health, his addiction or his life
Jordan Peterson is most of all a psychologist in the Jungian tradition who presents the Bible as something recommendable for ones mental well being, and as a psychologist in that line focuses on the Old Testament with its vast amount of psychologically beneficial narratives… Sort of like Bruno Bettelheim pointed out the value that fairy tales have for children’s mental health and development. The focus on the old testament allows him also to present the Christian faith as being totally in line wiith Judaism, a sort of daughter religion, like Buddhism from Hinduism. This is certainly convenient socially, politically and good for business, I’m sure. But it is a misrepresentation, and I prefer to side with C.S. Lewis on the issue who wrote that yes, myths are beautiful, great works of literature, whereas the Evangelium is almost clumsy, not great to read as literature - and that is just because it is a report of something true but overwhelming. Above reason. And I might add all academical endeavor.
3:25 One thing Peterson also does is interface between Sects of Christians. I am not Orthodox. I don’t believe in a Triune God. I believe in a House. A Family in the classical notion. Christ was a Man, and an Heir of a different Inheritance. There’s a mechanism in that for how this all works. However it leads to different conclusions on just about everything. We don’t even have to touch Omnipotence and Predestination in that way. Whatever God is and sees, he did confer choice to us actually. And finally, that gets into this Spirit notion. Which is tied to Baptism. God is Spirit. Man was made in that image. With Spirit. That was what Adam lost immediately. The first portion of Death was that. The last thing until the final breaths was a twilight. And Death and Hell are just the Words for Grave. That Spirit was what connected us to God. It could be conferred for a time to Prophets, having it upon them. But not in them. So this is what Christ speaks of regarding Baptism by Spirit. A new birth by his Death and Resurrection to his House. Anyway. My point is that Peterson shows us what we have in common you and I. You all believe I am bound to whatever for my lack of Baptism. But the interstice we both agree exists. Christs Church. We can agree that structure exists, and not have contempt for each others Faith as it may be found. To not be Stumbling Blocks. To not divide those who believe the quality of their Salvation and Righteousness depends on not eating meat offered to idols. The things Peterson iterates are universal. It gives a common language when those who see themselves as strong in faith, are then asked to bear the infirmity of the weak in faith. There’s a trick in that. Few consider themselves weak. And those that do are stronger than those that don’t in this place. Good luck Brothers. I pray you don’t take it amiss that I am not Baptized in water. But claim Baptism nonetheless.
TLDR - I needed Jordan to not be a Christian so that I could feel safe as an atheist to listen to him talk about the Bible. If Jordan had said he was Christian, I would have dismissed him as being biased and trying to propagandize me.
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What makes Jordan liked by a lot of ex-Christians is that he allows a space to exist for questions. When I was a Christian back in the 90s, you were told to have “blind faith.” I found this so utterly ridiculous that I left the church and was an atheist for 20+ years.
I found JBP and listened to his college lectures which I found to be mind expanding. I avoided the Genesis lectures and listened to them last. I didn’t want anything to do with religion for a LONG time. But I came into the lectures with the thought that maybe it was good to consider their symbolic meaning as a type of mythology and interesting historical significance.
I found God again through those lectures. My closed atheistic heart opened up a little bit to God and I’ve been growing in my faith ever since. It’s like Jordan Peterson was that tiny little opening that then had God slam the door wide open. I will forever be grateful to God for using Jordan Peterson to bring me back to Him. I don’t think I would have ever come back in any other way.
I needed Jordan to not be a Christian so that I could feel safe as an atheist to listen to him talk about the Bible. If Jordan had said he was Christian, I would have dismissed him as being biased and trying to propagandize me.
God works in mysterious ways. I’ve stopped questioning things like this. Jordan’s path to God is his own. I just know that God used Jordan to get me back and for that I will always be grateful for Jordan Peterson.
Yes, totally. The speakers in this video seem to be jumping past some key ideas -- mainly that we don't know God's will. Given that JP has brought so many people either into the church or many many miles closer than they were before, they might have more respect for how God's message is passing through Jordan. He serves others in total commitment and with such love, is it for us to say anything about him, at all? His words have opened doors in people's lives, by speaking fromthe doorway to the church, rather than from within it.
The Young Earth Creationists will just chase us away....again. Insisting that Genesis be read like a history book, the earth is literally 6K years old, humans and dinosaurs coexisted.... crazy zealous crap that if you don't agree with you aren't a real Christian.
I was an athiest my whole life, taught to scoff at the religious, to hate religion and dismiss God with "science".
JBPs psychological analysis of the biblical stories blew my mind.
Yes, thank you for explaining it so well
Lovely story. Thank you for sharing. I share something of the same as well but not quite as "slammed shut" as you. I believed in god, but not the God. Jordan helped me find a love of the Truth which sent me on a long journey of Truth-Seeking: leading me to Christ. "Seek and you shall find, knock, and the door will be opened". Needless to say, I fully believe God to be a rational God and so he created rational beings and gave us rational minds which we can use, in a truly honest manner, to look at the evidence and find Him. There is indeed evidence. Faith in Christ is not blind in the same way faith in your airline pilot is not blind.
Peace be with you.
He's brought a lot of people back to faith and breathed credibility of Christianity in our secular world. I'm not frustrated with him. I'm hopeful for him. 🙏
He led me to being a militant Christian able to spot the enemy. Thanks Jordan
Jordan has led me to belief. His insights are profound and helped me understand.
A create road sign undoubtedly, but if credibility is bestowed by secularity- you are putting it over Christ, over the truth
Would be cool if jordan loved christ half as much as he loves israel.
It doesn’t work. Nobody will struggle for a story for story’s sake. You have to confront God or the lack thereof.
The one thing I will forever thank Jordan Peterson for is introducing me to Jonathan Pageau. Such a humble and wise person.
Vervaeke for me
No man is humble or wise. But many wear it like a cloak.
@@CMA418evil is in the eye of the beholder, what a weird comment
@@alexeios "evil is in the eye of the beholder" try telling that to Jordan.
@@CMA418 try worrying about yourself, I’m not even a Peterson fan but you clearly have a problem with yourself that you’re just projecting onto other people
JP showed me the door to Christianity that I lost. Jonathan and his brother opened that door. Thank you Lord.
same ☦
When I was a spiritual surfer, and antagonistic to Christianity, I thought all the Christian words were fuzzy interchangeables: righteousness, mercy, salvation, atonement, all empty words about nothing. Christians were just foolish enough to think it was real.
So when Mel Gibson's "Passion" came out I was asked to write about it for a secular newspaper, and in differentiating between the substitutionary atonement and the idea of theosis, I wrote a short, two-sentence summary of theosis that I thought came out very well. I was proud of how precisely I was able to explain it, accurately and clearly, yet in so few words. But the editor came back to me and said, "It just sounds so *theoretical*."
That was eye-opening to me! To him, my wonderful explanation was just blah-blah words, as I thought all Christian words were, 50 yrs ago. All of which to say--Jordan re-framing the language is vital, for people to understand it at all.
Oh my gosh. Frederica Mathewes-Green is in the house! Ortho-celebrity up in here!
Well, now I need to know what your two-sentence summary was!
Well answered Jonathan. It's a shame that some Christians just want to claim Jordan for "their side". He's a remarkable man and has done more to help evangelize than most churches. Society obviously needs his voice. He helps people think through the bombardment of garbage we hear and see everyday of our life.
I wouldn't say it's a shame. It's understandable given Jordan's soul is on the line. Christianity isn't utilitarianism. Converting people without full belief yourself is denying the greatest gift. It'd be a shame if people accepted his utility and did NOT want more for Jordan. Hope he comes around.
My guess most people want that for the same reason i wanted my friends to come to the orthodox church. Because I found the Truth and I want with all my heart the best for everyone.
He’s gotten rich the same way the wokeists did: by telling a group of people they are being victimized and oppressed.
Jordan Peterson is the bridge. Once we arrive it’s true there is more work to do but we needed that bridge.
@@Tarantula-hawk Gatekeeper implies he controls who gets in. You are free to listen and read his content and anyone can be a Christian if they choose. Where is the “keeping” in that?
@@arminoleg1624 Can't stand stupid comments
My former atheist brother has come to believe in God because of listening to Jordan Peterson. Jordon is “Building a metaphysical reality for those who dont know” as you said. Thank you, Jonathan Pageau, for being able to explain this!
I’m an artist and a convert…converted through a personal encounter, not by theology.
I pray for my brothers❤
Pageau got it exactly. Where a lot of Christians might hear clarity from Bishop Barron, a lot of the world will just hear white noise.
Very true. My father in law loaned me a book to read written by a pope, I can’t remember which one, and I’m an avid reader with a decent vocabulary that was raised Roman Catholic, but that book was unreadable. I was obviously not the intended audience which is ok, but most of the time we’re not speak the same language
We need to teach young children the Scriptures at a young age. This is important. The Truth must be taught once again as opposed to the lies that now have flooded modern society making it easy for man and his Satan god to find basic History and the Gospel so challenging.
We need Christians to take control once again - instead of the Enemy which is what anti-Christians actually are.
1 Cor 18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness.
@@matthewstokes1608 I found teaching me religion as a kid drove me away , in my catholic schools almost none of the young lads had any interest in it because of being taught scripture . It just served to make sure we all abandoned church the first chance we got. That was almost every young lad i knew .
@@gingerbill128 Me too... that's my point. I was educated very strictly in the 60s/70s - at a draconian English public boys' boarding school.
I went out into a fallen, selfish, self-loving world, - and I became like a pig in shit ....
I was the most hedonistic man on Earth... I was into women and drink and speed (of any kind) ... I was into sheer enjoyment and the pleasures of the world and gorged myself - just as I was taught by my country's and epoch's new and revolutionary, repulsive culture ....
I hurt people looking back - made some bad choices - became an addict - saw some really dark and disturbing things unfold in violent crimes .... I guess I made a 'god' of mankind and his culture - or of woman - or myself - or pleasure... I was a big sinner at times.
At 57 I remarried a Mexican woman of amazing style - a Catholic - a lady.... I live in Mexico now. after decades in the US... I can only tell you I woke up - suddenly - after a chain of near fatal events.
My life was turned completely on its head... I realized as I faced death one night on a deserted beach, in an epiphany as I faced the ocean - mentally preparing for suicide that I suddenly knew categorically that God - Christ - the Bible - the entire HIStory of the Scriptures - every miracle involved - was all absolute, indestructible Truth.
I was given this opportunity to come to terms with this massive gift... to REPENT... I wept like a child...
He came for me... Why? I have no idea why - I don't know how I deserved this -
but He came for me - and I went to Him with all my heart - and I have been literally reborn...
This radically knew experience in life would probably never have happened without such an English education in the Christian Scriptures.... (Why Christian? Because, as He said, He alone is the way to God in Eternity. There are no other ways - no other religions - or paths, but Him.)
WHERE has that education I was given now gone? Y'know, the same education that our ancestors have had for countless centuries, in the Faith...
Satan now runs the show in no uncertain terms. (Christ did say this unsettling thing "Satan is the god of this world".
Think about it!
I loathe Satan now... I reckon I always did.
I am a total Christian - and I would fight anyone to the death for Him - as He knows.
We need to take our country back - and fight for the sake of our kids - and all the innocents who must be taught the ways of Jesus Christ.
Jonathan articulates perfectly my frustration about some TH-cam preachers. You can't just approach hyper-secularized people on a pride event and then say "for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son...". They understand the sentence but they don't understand what it actually means. If only they can be a bit like Jordan, those people may be more willing to listen.
JP was a huge influence for me in terms of abandoning atheism. Which never made sense in the first place
" Jordan Peterson is laboring under a system designed to torture him" - Josh Neal
Where Josh Neal say this? This appears to be a poignant statement but would like to find the source
Jordan is an image of those who labor under the failing Christian system, trying to put it back together with the science that we've integrated.
@@dwaynemcdowell2073I forget at the moment. It was on a podcast on Podbean. Most likely talking about his book Anerican Extremist
@dwaynemcdowell2073 Unfortunately I forget. It was a podcast on Podbean
We all already are laboring under a system designed to tortured us
Much more frustrated to see all the christians regarding JBP's conversion as a trophy and displaying their lack of faith by wanting outer confirmations to substitute their own supressed doubts.
This
Agree. Christians think they are God walking around with their magnify glass on people asking “hmm, you haven’t said the magic prayer, therefore you’re not saved”. This is between them and God. You shall know a tree by its fruit and Jordan Peterson really cares and has sweated blood more than most in my view
yep, lots of projection happening. glad someone else can see it
He basically said it's no one's business because if he's not a convert it undermines the value in Christianity he's been presenting to people and if he says he is then he will have the puritanical heresy hunters amongst the christians plaguing him telling him what academic pursuits he can and can't engage in. He's right about both scenarios. Personally I think his ability to express what Christianity is comes from his own Salvation experience.
I think more that many Christians don't even know what believing in Jesus or God means. It often sounds like affirming words. Are you Christian because you say the correct words and convince yourself that you believe them? Wouldn't a real Christian be willing to give up everything? I don't see much of people selling all their posessions and giving to the poor. Most people give away some of their surplus, as long as they can feel materially safe. Jesus is so radical in his demands, that I don't think many people are actually following him. Giving away 10% is also practiced in Islam for instance. Even atheists donate to charity.
I like Jorden, but his interview with Musk he kept interrupting and seemed nerves. I think he is struggling hard now. I hope he comes to believe fully and stops fighting it. I think he fears the implications and public backlash for it if he does. He knows it will lead to attacks for it. Like he is struggling with them now, but it will make it worse. He has not surrendered to God yet and his intellect is in the way. I pray for him to see the light.
Right, we have to pray for him.
I actually think it's the opposite. I feel he doesn't believe in the truth claims of the Bible but knows what will happen if he admits to being agnostic. I'm more of the mind that he places higher importance on the results of being a Christian rather than the more supernatural aspects such as salvation and damnation. If he came out and said he doesn't believe in God then his more religious followers would indict him as a grifter instead of seeing the real value in what he's saying, which is that we must behave as Christ commanded even if there is no reward for it.
I think he's being blackmailed by Mossad, honestly. And it's breaking him.
@@ShadowNetWeaver1 he needs our prayers, because you right : ) I actually think he is a grifter, most of his explanations are word salad. It’s embarrassing.
He advocated for the killing of innocent children. He is going to hell, i hope he is uncomfortable
Also explains why The Lord of the Rings has converted people who read the Bible and didn’t get it and suddenly in that story get it. As a Catholic revert for instance, I struggled with mother Mary and connection with her, until I experienced Galadriel, and suddenly Mary clicked- I don’t know why, can’t explain it- but as Jonathan says, perhaps Tolkien’s belief and view of Mary though not imbued allegorically in his character just seeped through in some things- almost interpreting mystical ideas in a language that was new and yet more familiar and less distant. And sometimes the distance is due to having heard it so many times that it becomes inaccessible.
It’s like when you start to study Shakespeare and you’re struggling and you read the story in prose, and when you go back to it you wonder why you even struggled. Jordan Peterson made me read the Bible differently and I finally understood so much of what early Church fathers were saying.
Very well put. I am also a Catholic revert, and Jordan (along with Pageau) helped me understand much about our rich faith. I am in my mid-30s, and I am presently re-reading Lord of the RIngs, which I read in my teens. It is a much deeper experience, and your comment has me excited to re-encounter Galadriel. Thank you!
Dear Symbolic World people, please create primary and secondary education curriculums/lists of things to use to teach children that replaces the western worldview curriculums. Thank you.
Scandalous
What? Why?
@@24tommy109 cause modern curriculums are run by devil worshipers
Have them read fairytales.
There's plenty of materials/organizations out there to help children to develop a Christian world-view - if parents are really serious about obeying God's command to teach their children in the way of truth and righteousness they could start by homeschooling their children according to Christian homeschooling curricula, no shortage of options there...
People who have grown up with a Christian worldview are given the benefit of shortcuts to meaning, but the tradeoff is their inability to explain how they got to their meaning outside of their tradition. Jordan is excellent at explaining the shortcuts, and the reason someone like him is necessary is because our culture has been losing the traditions from which its shortcuts to meaning derive and needs a new (or, I would argue, an even older--pre Catholic Church) way of understanding our story. That's why Jordan focuses so much on narrative and archetype--these ways of understanding are very old and more deeply rooted in the collective consciousness than Catholic/Christian traditions.
Exactly. I was brought up Christian, went a bit prodigal son in my 20s and 30s, now back to the faith.
Talking to people about Christianity to people lately has been such an eye-opener to how little exposure to the Bible people have these days.
Even atheists my age know the basics of what's in the Bible, but the younger generation just haven't the faintest clue.
It's astounding the depths of information in the Bible. Every perspective can add something. Many Christians have a dim view of Jews (replacement theologists especially) yet you can learn so much more from the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, when Jewish culture is explained.
I've learned a huge amount from JP as well as his psychological explanations have added entirely new dimensions to Bible stories and themes that I thought I knew well. Turns out, I know very little 😂
Again proving Johnathan is conversing on another level
What do you mean
Christians like those 2 are criticizing Jordan peterson for not being simple enough. Johnathan is then highlighting that Jordan is playing a far more complex role than simply believing. Without someone like Jordan I might have never found God. These Christians demand for simplicty is disrespectful and what pushes millions away from the faith. @@Built_By_Bacon
Love Dr. Peterson. Imagine the west without his voice in the last 5 years. Idiosyncrasies aside.
Let's imagine. Young western men wouldn't have been led away from nationalism and might have saved their countries. JP represents zionists who want the west destroyed
Yes this is what it boils down to, his role has been absolutely vital and all the criticism exists within this context.
anyone who is justifying and cheerleading mass murder of children should not be defended by christians
Jonathan, Glory to God for your work. For too long Christians across the world have been ridiculed about believing in the old testament stories and Christians had to look for unconvincing explanations. With your work and what Jordan is doing, it’s a whole different story, feels like a new era where Christians can stand straight, shoulders back and raise kids teaching about Old Testament stories with confidence.
Absolutely!!! 1 Billion percent.
Actual Truth Within Long Tradition has been (( Well we might say warped /Transformed over time/thousands of years.)) Jordan is in the process of
opening/looking/seeing/wrestles to understand the actual reality of WHO OUR CREATOR ACTUALLY IS, HIS TRUTH, WITHOUT Our, aka mankind’s Implanted DISTORTIONS. Jordan Struggles because what he is learning as HE SEEKS OUR CREATOR WITHIN HIS OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS/OUR CREATOR ISN’T WHAT WE HAVE GROWN TO TAKE AS TRADITIONAL TRUTHS. CORRUPTION WITHIN THE SYSTEM OF MANKINDS MAKING HAS OVERSHADOWED TRUTH. I Believe Jordan Is Right On Track, the world /universe needs someone representing TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING ELSE. I Believe Jordan Has Been Given Insight(s) Into THAT TRUTH. Aman! And HE IS SHARING EVERYTHING AS HE UNCOVERS OUR CREATOR’S TRUTH.
Pageau is right. At the beginning of my conversion to Catholicism, Catholics would speak to me in a language completely foreign to me. They’d speak as if something they’re saying is common sense. But ten years of mental and emotional anguish later, and even during the process, I recognized most Christians and Catholics know words but don’t even know the meaning of their words or language. But they think they do, and we all know what a hopeless situation THAT is.
I learned on my own. I didn’t have a choice.
Yes, that's true, Jonathan. Christians can't seem to talk without using specialized terms, and Jordan is able to get to the truth of the matter not ysing them. Makes more sense to me, and I'm a Christian.
I love listening to Jordan.
I have always felt awkward about people pushing on Jordon for a conversion, or a confirmation of his beliefs. As a Christian, I do want him to become one, but as a person who enjoys learning about life and the world from different people- I don’t particularly care. I think people are concerned that he is the only or main voice in Christian’s lives- but at least I like to listen to him, think in the ideas and put them against the Word, other preachers I listen to and experiences.
No one has any right to be frustrated with anyone else’s walk.
Exactly this. I was raised Roman Catholic but stopped practicing because no one could explain things to me in a way that made any type of sense and so it all felt like control and shame. Then listening to Jordan started to make things make sense and I started to contemplate returning to the church, but I tell you, all it takes is reading some comments from some of these supposedly Christian believers and I remember the reasons I left in the first place. So ready to judge, so full of their own pride, so self righteous. It’s gross. No wonder so many of us left. They are so quick to point out the luciferian in others and can’t see it in themselves. No one has any right to be frustrated with anyone else’s walk is exactly right. Only God will judge what’s in our hearts.
Tbh it sounds like y'all are frustrated too. I understand where you're coming from as he's the reason I'm Christian now; but I can't exactly say I agree with his attempt at secularizing Christianity because that's how we got to this post modern mess in the first place. I love Jordan and he'll always have a place in my heart but this writing off of concern doesn't actually solve anything to me. We need to resist the secularization of Christianity as materialist perspectives are a trap for the mind and soul
@@mfkent5201all Jordan is doing is explaining Christianity to the secular. He’s not trying to secularize Christianity, which is why he doesn’t claim to be a Christian.
@@Noneoyobiznaz How could a non Christian best describe Christianity though :/ ?
@@mfkent5201I didn’t say he was “best describing it”. Perhaps there is someone else doing it better but he knows how to talk to the secular and 95% of Catholics don’t know how to do that.
Look, all my life I struggled understanding the language of the Bible. Through Jordan I was able to start making sense of it. Then with Johnathan bring in the symbolism and fractal aspect of reality, then Vervaeke with the cognitive aspect through human history, finally with the Bishop bringing the Catholics view.
I live in a very different, vibrant and alive world now that these men have given this new lens.
Forever thankful for the work these men , and others, are doing.
Many Christians who blindly follow without understanding deeply the symbolism and context behind Christianity and Jesus’s messages. Are the same who will lose faith when they get swayed or complacent.
The masses are asses 😂
I personally feel Dr. Peterson is the rich man who asks Jesus how to follow Him, and Jesus answers, sells everything, and follow me. Dr. Peterson's riches are his intellect and what he has seen it gain him. Giving up the thing that's helped you most in life is really scary. Good thing we know what we, as Christians, get the best gift ever imaginable when we do truly follow Christ.
JP is faith in action. A lot of Christian’s hide their light under a bush
but by the grace of the father all things are possible? paul vanderklay has correctly diagnosed the problem with jbp: he doesnt accept grace
good point
What does it mean to you to "truly follow Christ". And if it's not too personal, can you share about your own experience with selling everything?
@cromi4194 to truly follow Christ means He is living within you. It isn't something you have control over.
Selling everything is a metaphor for being willing to give up that which is most important to you for the sake of Christ. It doesn't have to mean physically selling things, but it could.
Hope that helps! God bless you and keep you!
We need both. Jordan, with his human wresting lead me from the secular world-view towards the Christian path. Bishop Barron provides illumination for the path I now try to walk.
Hey, JBP opened up the Bible for me, brought me back to my faith and introduced me to Bishop Barron and Jonathan Pageau. His wife Tammy is even the recipient of a miracle brought about through Mary's intercession. In my book he has gained nigh infinite credit. The Holy Spirit will call him at the time of His choosing. Trust in the Lord and let go.
In other words let go and let God. Amen 🙏
Amen. Trust in the Lord. Totally agree.
The lack of confidence on what the truth is before one knows the truth is one of the reasons Peterson is popular. It is great that Christians want Peterson on their “team” but teams are part of the current problem and I personally believe that religious people also have a bitter pill to take despite them thinking that they have arrived at the Truth
The notion that one can determine whether another is a Christian or not (other than asking them) seems to be against what I see as Christian. Pride goes before the fall, and this is pride. I am a Christian because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and what you think about my being or not being a Christian has no bearing on that. It is, however, insulting to think you believe you can judge me like that.
They have eyes but don't see, people like those of Catholic unscripted and the like are completely unengaging for non-catholics/Christians and have the gaul to criticize Jordan Peterson for the way he talks about the faith because it's not Orthodox/Christian terminology or explains the stories in a purely simplistic dogmatic way.
He's done more for God and brought more people to the faith than whole Christian organizations, so judge him by his fruits as Christ taught us.
Jordan has probably brought more people to christ than anybody in the 21st century. One of the reasons he was able to do that was exactly because he doesnt just fall into stereotipical christian frame. So im not sure we should be insisting on him to become that stereotipical chistian.
I can understand how youd want him to fully come into the church out of love for him though.
In contrast, bishop baron only became an interesting speaker to me once I became a Christian, before that I would've never given him the time of day, cause I wasn't interested in hearing what to me seemed like the same old discourse. Now that I'm a Christian I see the value and probably enjoy his talks more than Jordan's tbh
This was perfect for me, thank you.
No frustration with JP at all. He speaks to a secular world.
Reminds me of the book "Sin of Certainty".
I appreciate Jordan Peterson remaining in the narthex as he wrestles with God. It tells me he senses the gravity and sacredness of the ground on which he is treading and the awesomeness of God's holiness. I pray the veil which shrouds his understanding is ripped in two and that God removes the scales from his eyes. If only all Christians strived (agonized) to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
There are a lot of difficult things in life that I never heard my priests mention. They often avoid major, charged topics and end up being definite about things that don't really matter.
Jordan will talk about hardship, controversy, evil as we see it in the world today. I've never had a priest who went into any depth on any issue that would risk losing/judging people. No mention of abortion, no mention of drugs, no mention of transgenderism. When i did my pre marriage counseling, the priest did nothing but spit out pablum and platitudes.
But I listen to Jordan and it continually builds a desire to seek the truth, to concentrate on the example of Christ, and to keep trying to find something in the Church despite being dismayed by the priesthood for my whole life.
The Lord is the master of history in SPITE of the church. Luckily he's in charge.
Jordan didn't talk about jibbies when it mattered. Jordan invited neocons to explain the Russia-Ukraine situation. Jordan does not talk hard truths on many topics.
@@justian1772 True, but my priests removed wine from communion during COVID and still to this day.
Jordan has his blind spots/personal opinions, but I don't think we need mass to include a geopolitical assessment. I'm talking about issues related to personal choices, values, and morals (relationships between self, family, society) that we encounter in our daily lives. Refereeing a war between two distant nations isn't what I'd want during mass.
@@mrRambleGamble Alls I was saying is that JP talks about things he shouldn't and ignores things he absolutely should talk about in many cases. Sorry to hear about the Wine in Communion. That didn't happen to me.
@@justian1772 an example of things he "shouldnt talk about"?
Catholicism either re-discovers its medieval masculinity (warrior ethos) or passes away. Men need more than words of love, especially when the idea of love is today so distorted and ubiquitous.
I saw a clip of the recent interview JP did with John Rich and as a Christian I personally found John Rich quite irritating how he kept pushing JP on a decision and trying to preach to him. I felt it just came across as quite patronising. It sounded like he was just trying to get him “converted” by making a “decision” on the spot. When it seems to me Jordan has a faith and is on a deep journey and wrestle with God in his own way and in Gods timing. He doesn’t need some country singer trying to preach to him and quote scripture to him that he already knows. He’s already on his own path of faith and exploration and I pray each day he will find greater revelation of truth. Not hating on the guy at all, he is clearly a courageous evangelist, just felt it wasnt right to do that in an interview with JP, came across to me and quite disrespectful and patronising, but maybe that’s just me.
I wasn’t sure about God when I was younger, but Dr. Peterson got me, hook, line, and sinker. He brought me to the Father.
Dr P says he's "terrified that God might exist", but doesn't take the small leap of faith which he made smaller!
Honestly, jp had a huge influence on my life. But the issue came to the point where ever since he sold to daily wire, everything just comes off as a disingenuous money grab now. As much as the jacket backlash is scoffed at, it embodies the very issue with him.
The issue is he is holds back as much and for as long as physically possible from becoming a christian despite how much time he's wrestled with the stories, but yet he was more than happy to jump into making a profit off christians and their iconography.
It gets to the point where it either looks like hes milking christians for money, or just can't let go of his purely intellectual worldview enough to get to the next level that would help him understand the stories fully. It makes him look like a grifter.
Its like he wants the perks of faith without the reaponsibility or commitment. And it seems lile deep down he doesn't want the weight of accountability which belief instills. Which is also my suspicion of why he speaks to atheists so well since its the same mindset.
Yeah major money grab releasing the Exodus seminar on TH-cam..
@@leondbleondb after it was initially paywalled on dw. Also the jacket and memorabilia sales he goes for which features iconography. Either for sales or to boost his image through controversy which he profits off of.
He's been profiting off christians for a long time. And the bigger issue is if these stories have deep meanings in reality, and are true to him, then why is not moved by them enough to take the plunge in order to fully understand them through experience?. So yeah, hard not to think he's just trying profit without any tagible commitment.
Forgive him his weakness in regards to faith. He is but a weak man.
@@AwesomeWholesome there's nothing for me to forgive with him. Just saying that people need to get a grip with him, and not become a personality cult. Especially since money is clearly the priority.
He's Showing us in real time what dantes inferno level of limbo looks like. So close, but so far. Always going in circles but never up.
He works for an anti Christian company.
And make no mistake "daily wire" is an anti Christian company. Don't let them tell you anything different.
I think that JBP has a unique perspective that drew (and continue to draw) people in towards the Bible, in a way that evangelizing Christians and apologists aren’t doing. Or can’t do. I think too, it was important that he did not automatically reveal his beliefs, because that would have hindered his message to people locked off from church-based Christianity. I remember him saying he didn’t want that guru-like position, and the thing was just to try and think things through. He eventually had/has millions thinking things through with him.
He's acting in the spirit of St Christopher. He's struggles to be Christian himself, but he's the one at the boundary ferrying the Christ child across the river. This is what he did for me.
I'll tell you this, I grew up hardcore atheist - and for good reason. Not a million of your best Christian pastors & preachers; not the most beautiful and grandiose churches and cathedrals; no denomination; no pope; no ordinary Christian; none could have ever hoped to even come close to what JBP did for me. Because of his approach to the biblical corpus, I not only no longer label myself atheist, I am actively leaning towards Christianity. If you told me that 10 years ago, I would have probably gone out and found the nearest bridge. If there are Christians out there who are truly frustrated with this man, I'll tell you this: your frustrations are with yourself, not with him.
Tears and hand wringing don’t make you a Christian. But a truly penitent heart does!!
In the beginnings was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Why does anyone seeking truth need an image to worship?
i totally agree, jordan explains things in a practical atheist perspective, i could not pickup nor understand christianity when people spoke to me in verses, jordan converted me, jordan’s a genius
Everyone serves a purpose in life and as many claim, Jordan Peterson has been a bridge for many to pass over from secularism to Christianity.
And by definition this “bridge” would be located at the border of secularism and Christianity which is pretty much where Jordan Peterson is.
I listened to Catholic Unscripted and Bishop Baron and had no desire to become a Catholic. I unsubscribed. I listened to JP and became a Byzantine Catholic and soon so did my adult children.
This is similar to what Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick says in his book, The Lord of Spirits. He quotes St. Basil the Great saying to first become acquainted with pagan lore (pg. 142-143). "Learn the pagan texts before turning to the Bible; we must be conversant with poets, with historians, with orators, indeed with all men who may further our soul's salvation." And "what St. Basil says applies even outside the question of reading pagan literature or other texts that have such elements in them. We can treat whatever we encounter in life with the virtues of the bee, taking what is good and leaving behind the bad. One does not even have to engage in constant apologetics against the bad. One can simply leave it alone."
And "we acquire the basic skills we need for reading and interpretation with this lesser literature before we can understand the deeper things of the Bible, the "shadows" and "reflection" we apprehend before we can gaze upon the sun."
Performative agnosticism is not a virtue and the Daily Israeli is a nest of grifters. Let the reader understand.
people still have a hard time understand there is no "judeo christianism", there is Christianism and there is Judaism, they are both completely separate and dare I say, they are antithetical to each other.
Edit:
I am all for unity, but ask any Rabbi, you cannot be a Jew and a Christian at the same time, its one or the other
I wish it was not this way, I actually believe Christ means we are all Christ, the solution of usurping God is to accept it and "become" God, aka Christ, God in a position of humility and compassion, kinda like the meaning of Kabbalah actually, I dont understand why "The Jews" did not like Jesus 😔
Pageau basically has also
@MarceloSeravalli because they were expecting a military and political "messiah" who will give them rulership of the earth.
@@MarceloSeravalli- Christ asks for you to change your heart. He is about the spirit of the law. I feel that Judaism is about the letter of the law. They did not like what Jesus was saying.
Peterson needs to be Baptised. No amount of intelligence can reveal the Miracle of the Holy Ghost. God bless Peterson for everything he has done for the truth, allow him your heavenly peace and rest.
His wife was healed through prayer. Not sure what he's still banging on about.
As a child raised by and around evangelical christians and knowing that JP will have studied alchemy I can tell you they will find it to close to witchcraft and will disown him
i think he would be honored to be ‘disowned’ by evangelical christians :) i don’t see that keeping him up at night
Jbp needs to stay off twitter, get out from under the daily wire, and stay out of politics. He's slowly going mad, and undermining all the good work he has done.
Or did he send an invitation out to God that he wanted to wrestle… Hide and watch
I think it's fascinating he might not be ready to embrace Christ and God, but he has brought many to Christ and God, including me. God will use who he needs to use and I think from him not fully impression being a Christian has allowed him to speak to many people and bring them to Christianity.
I’m a baby Christian and I’m also dyslexic. I know how to spell the word ‘the’ until I start thinking about it…I think faith is similar, at least for us newbies anyway. I have it, actually it predates my journey into Christianity, until I start interrogating it. Then it becomes, abstract, vulnerable, slightly out of grasp. Perhaps Dr JP, especially coming from an academic data & science driven background, is having the same internal dialogue and understandably until that’s passed, and especially given his unique position in the public and political discourse, he’s keeping it personal, private, a sacred dialogue between him and God for now. And I think that’s not only right but also wise.
That's what I think too, and I told someone as much in another comment.
"You believe in God? Prove it"
Imagine a more laborous task for an academic.
Christian's want feeling not knowing.. They feel like the bishop knows due to the angle of approach. But if you try to give it to them straight, they will deflect to making a circular argument with angles. This is the PI in the sky. Let the Bishop know the queen has the board and there's no way of circling.
Ive been not at all impressed with many christians take on jp.
Me neither. It's usually some form of superficial clique-iness that Christians are often accused of, like Costco employees checking membership cards at the door.
Those words only have true meaning and power when the Holy Spirit puts meaning and powered in them
I spoke to a teenager and was amazed when she did not know who Adam and Eve are . Where have our values gone
That’s an issue with her parents. Even if they are atheists, denying someone of the Biblical stories which is in so much of Western literature and culture is really quite awful. There’s probably a lot of references that fly over this kid’s head. It is sad.
Since they never existed, and it's a myth so crude, vague and endlessly interpretable, it's no loss.
For this woman, there’s a clarity when Bishop Barron speaks. That’s because you believe what he beliefs, not necessarily because he is speaking truth. For me, I have difficulty listening to Bishop Barron. I find many of the things he says lack depth. They feel like clichés rather than a genuine search for truth. Whereas when Peterson speaks about religious issues, I feel as though we are talking about the most fundamental, universal truths.
Jordan sent a message out to God that he wanted to wrestle and that’s what we are watching… It’s a glorious thing and it will turn out for his good
Truth and clarity are not the same thing. Anyone with bow and arrow experience knows that.
I'm not frustrated with him. I was utterly disappointed in him. I loved this man and I still love his older work. But ever since oct 7th and the war in Gaza he's changed for the worst. Or maybe is just his true colours coming to light. Regardless, this champion of freedom of speech in his origin country now wants censorship. He calls people rats in weird online rants that sound like he's not even sober. He is *for* violence. He comes off particularly hypocritical when he talks down like that to people like Fuentes but had a podcast with Destiny.
*If I were to guess I'd say the devil challenges him and he's having a very rough time. For that I am praying for him and I hope more people do.* Because he's so not the man I used to look up to in 2018 and who's advice changed my life. I feel is quite profane how he wears icons on his clothes while spewing hatred.
Maybe is his diet. Suffering on a bad diet made his heart soft. Now he embodies that 'monster' he advises people they should be. Idk, these are just thoughts that crossed my mind because I repeat, I loved this man. He seems now completely blind to people's criticism. Ever since he went into DW he closed himself in an echo chamber. I see no humility, patience, love, wisdom in him anymore and it breaks my heart.
Blah blah blah
Are you saying because he isn't pro Palestinian you don't like him? Get a grip
JBP hasn’t ever really been good on the political front honestly. I wouldn’t look at JBP for that. His wrestling with the Bible is where he shines.
@@anastasiabeaverhousin7355 No, that's not why. I didnt pick a side.
You have to understand, Jordan is more of a thinker, not necessarily a believer. I think this approach is valid. It's one thing to believe in something, but to rationalize how it may be valuable outaide if faith is a very useful analytical exercise.
Also, and this is key, he and most real philosophers aren't typically proposing absolute truths, they are simply stating their current idea. Which is open for debate and adjustment. I'm often frustrated by people who aren't able to understand that conversations about deep topics must require that the ideas be maleable. Dogmatism, is the death of thought.
Clarity is nothing next to abuse, as any rape survivor who encountered a known person unattended.
My only issue with jordan is his insistence on using the term “Judeo” Christian values, especially since going the daily wire. The west was built on Christian values we opposed Jewish values so much we kicked them out repeatedly.
Knowledge puffs up
Love edifies
knowledge is not evil, please do not say such things. you will make people think that they have to remain ignorant and stupid to be Christian.
He brought me to Bible.
nah, i dont believe medieval or even ancient man read stories and thought it didnt matter if they actually happened.
agreed! deconstructing stories for their symbolic meaning and thinking one is ‘smarter’ than the story is a postmodern approach.
@opposingshore9322 that's not what jonathon is doing. you have a very low view of symbolism because you're a modern materialist.
@@no-one-787 lol thanks for diagnosing me 😂, that was foolish of you.
No one cares that Santa Claus isn’t “real.” They just love to have a fun story to share with their kids about the magic of Christmas. Santa is a symbol of Christmas. Pretty sure ppl don’t care that he doesn’t actually live in the North Pole.
It’s a bummer so many Christians have been hoodwinked by the evolutionary storytelling, that they have to dismiss any suggestion that Genesis one is giving an historical record.
Can we have a video calling it “the gospel according to Jordan Peterson”? What is that he says that forms the metaphysical foundation for people to come to Christianity? What can we learn from him to evangelize to “nones”?
the Priests made me go away of God.. Jordan Peterson made me got closer, untill later on I started to have faith again in God.
Jordan peterson has done for many (including me) a better Job than Priests and Pastors
No offense but now that you have faith go learn from a real teacher and not this loony toons guy
💯
Jordan's hands are tied when speaking up against Isreal, as well as never spoke up about the jab... therefore is ironic in his discussions of facing biggest fears; I have learned so much from him but he is in the moment now to put words into fruition or cower
The fact that Jordan is himself genuinely struggling with these questions is appealing to others who are struggling and who are not yet believers.....he is a sort of gateway drug to coming back to the church.
The problem that I can see as a Christian with JP is that he is so committed to destroy any enemy that opposes his values and his thinking. Not to understand the other side with humility and love. And no to have a relationship to God, that has nothing to do with intelligence and intellectual games. Also how nowadays he defends anything conservative/republican views even when they are in opposition with Christian values (especial Orthodox in my personal view).
If Jordan were to expire in his current state, he might as well be buried how Voltaire wanted to be, half under The Church and half outside of it.
With Jordan Peterson its interesting to see how good understanding , how close, someone can get to Jesus without The Holy Spirit.
So close, but still not there.
I am praying for the Holy Ghost to drag him fully in.
Jordan brought me back to Christianity.
We are not frustrated at all. It's clear that he never was a Christian believer, is not, and - doesn't want to become one. Sad, but let's move on... 👋
Pageau has his owne forensic reality.
He may not be "Catholic", but he is a follower.
Jordan IS a Christian, most likely a Catholic, he just doesn't know it yet. He's the ultimate skeptic! That's why he's perfectly positioned to speak to the "un-believers". He's finding his way and painstakingly dragging those who will listen, along for the ride.
"But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ"
1 Corinthians 3:1 .
You cannot serve two masters.
You think Peterson is serving two masters?
Who's serving 2 masters?
Here’s something I’ve seen many of my fellow Christians get dead-wrong concerning Peterson: some are tempted to think that Peterson’s choice of words, in public, are instrumental and strategic. Like he is unwilling to alienate part of his audience and so he walks out onto a tightrope while concealing what he “really” believes. The issue with this view is that, first, Peterson’s commitment to truthful speech is also a commitment to the utility of truthful and transparent speech in the longest frame possible. He believes that, in the longest view possible, God rewards the righteous (if those Christians skeptical of Peterson will forgive my suggestion that he believes in God, in any sense). Peterson believes deeply in the viability and ultimate utility of righteous and truthful action and speech. This is, to him, indistinguishable from believing in God’s justice and goodness, or the goodness of the ultimate nature of reality, which is a required belief to undergird truthful (non-instrumental) speech and action. This is, ultimately, the end that he is driving at with all of his thought. It is an imperative on the individual: take responsibility, speak truthfully, and voluntarily confront the burden of reality heroically. Basically, if he was acting primarily out of opportunism or instrumentality, he would be acting in direct contradiction to the principal at the heart of everything he says. Even less compelling is the half-witted suggestion that he is acting and speaking instrumentally on the behalf of his bank account. What does he want with money? He obviously recognizes and speaks about money knowing that it is a fantastic servant but a terrible master. Mammon is not his master. Even those most committed to disparaging his character could not possibly suggest that Peterson’s life is one of cushy, decadent overindulgence. All he does is work. Secondly, one finds that Peterson’s worldview, once one has ears to hear, is remarkably consistent and tightly constructed. I’d wager that I’ve listened to and read as much Peterson as nearly any human being alive. I’ve grown up on him. He is my teacher. And I basically can predict how and what he’ll respond to any question. His consistency is remarkable. Over time, too. Though he’s changed his views and behavior a little since his fame, and before that since 1996, when he first recorded a set his of lectures, his basic worldview and meaning-making heuristic is the same. Now he is more skeptical of institutions and more singularly drawn and attracted to the complete Christian story. He is now more humble, but also more weary of vipers. In any case, I mean to say that Peterson’s worldview makes sense, once you understand it. If my fellow Christians try to read him as basically a) for my current beliefs, and thus an ally, or b) against my current beliefs, and thus an enemy, we will continue to oscillate from being perplexed at his uncrackable genius to disappointed as his stubbornness. I pray, as I imagine Peterson would too, that this does not remain to be the case for those Christians interested and awake enough to hear his words. “Those who have ears, let them hear.” Peterson is the real deal.
Also one of the things I love so much about Jonathan is that he is able to see the same things from Peterson but from within the walls of the Church. “Blessed are those who, without seeing, believed.” I do pray for Peterson’s baptism, that he would open himself to God more personally, to take a leap of faith, and that he would see and get behind the necessary creedal element of faith, which accompanies the spiritual.
Who are the two British folks?
Catholic Unscripted on TH-cam. Typically 3, but one couldn’t join.
I think the most frustrating thing JP did recently was his warmongering tweets and ideas on the Isreali-Palastinian genocide.
Jordan is strong on works …weak on grace…which is why I think (in part) he won’t commit…to paraphrase him from past interviews. “How could I possibly live up to that demand..” (the call of faith) which demonstrates clearly his focus is on him (works) not God (grace)
Then again, maybe he is in exactly the spot where he needs to be. Bishop Barron said he (Barron) couldn't convert a lot of people because they looked at him as a Catholic bishop. Peterson, he said, serves as a bridge. I'm not going to judge him as weak on anything. Maybe God has him right where he should be.
@@kurt1391 I’m sure he has acted as a bridge for some…and I realise that he sees himself as operating on the border so to speak…and I’m certain God can and does use this..although that wasn’t the focus of my comment…and just to say…not every statement is a judgement…my thoughts are (I feel) a valid observation and conclusion based on his own words about himself. In this video Jonathan Pageau said “I don’t think he’s a Christian”…a judgement..?
Jesus was strong on good works. Unfortunately, you protestants cherry pick verses from Holy Scripture, not knowing the difference between good works and works of the Law that the Jews cling to.
@@PomazeBog1389
Hmmm…We’ve never met…So basically quick assumptions and inaccurate accusations on your part…how quickly the voices of denominational echo chambers become tiresome.
I think people get frustrated with Jordan when he doesn't say exactly what they want him to, or what they think he should say. This becomes clear in the comments that say: "I thought Jordan was the best thing ever until he said a thing I don't like or disagree with. Now I think he's literally the devil." It's the same sort of mentality as people who turn on a band when they put out an album they don't like, but more severe because it has actual social and cultural consequences. But the worst, I think, are the "christians" who make accusations regarding his faith or his journey to it. It's not your place, bro. If you are making judgements about someone else's relationship to or with God, and doing so from a platform that isn't even REAL, while that same person is moving through the world and actually bringing people closer to God, you need to stand in the corner and think about what you've done. I'm pretty sure Jesus had some pretty heavy things to say about this sort of behavior.
I'm not frustrated with him. He's a man wrestling with what modern man has lost touch with.
Peterson seems to be in a lengthy process of counting the cost. Though i wish he would hurry up, i think he will eventually give his life to God.
Jordan walks with God. What do you do?
People are frustrated with him because he and his daughter seem to act weirdly in some political matters and because se seems to be unsincere regarding his health, his addiction or his life
Jordan Peterson is most of all a psychologist in the Jungian tradition who presents the Bible as something recommendable for ones mental well being, and as a psychologist in that line focuses on the Old Testament with its vast amount of psychologically beneficial narratives… Sort of like Bruno Bettelheim pointed out the value that fairy tales have for children’s mental health and development. The focus on the old testament allows him also to present the Christian faith as being totally in line wiith Judaism, a sort of daughter religion, like Buddhism from Hinduism. This is certainly convenient socially, politically and good for business, I’m sure. But it is a misrepresentation, and I prefer to side with C.S. Lewis on the issue who wrote that yes, myths are beautiful, great works of literature, whereas the Evangelium is almost clumsy, not great to read as literature - and that is just because it is a report of something true but overwhelming. Above reason. And I might add all academical endeavor.
Not frustrated with him at all. I like that he can show us that there is more than one way to look at and interpret scripture.
Jordan reminds me of John the Baptist pointing to Christ
3:25 One thing Peterson also does is interface between Sects of Christians. I am not Orthodox. I don’t believe in a Triune God. I believe in a House. A Family in the classical notion. Christ was a Man, and an Heir of a different Inheritance. There’s a mechanism in that for how this all works. However it leads to different conclusions on just about everything. We don’t even have to touch Omnipotence and Predestination in that way. Whatever God is and sees, he did confer choice to us actually. And finally, that gets into this Spirit notion. Which is tied to Baptism.
God is Spirit. Man was made in that image. With Spirit. That was what Adam lost immediately. The first portion of Death was that. The last thing until the final breaths was a twilight. And Death and Hell are just the Words for Grave. That Spirit was what connected us to God. It could be conferred for a time to Prophets, having it upon them. But not in them.
So this is what Christ speaks of regarding Baptism by Spirit. A new birth by his Death and Resurrection to his House.
Anyway. My point is that Peterson shows us what we have in common you and I. You all believe I am bound to whatever for my lack of Baptism. But the interstice we both agree exists.
Christs Church. We can agree that structure exists, and not have contempt for each others Faith as it may be found. To not be Stumbling Blocks. To not divide those who believe the quality of their Salvation and Righteousness depends on not eating meat offered to idols. The things Peterson iterates are universal. It gives a common language when those who see themselves as strong in faith, are then asked to bear the infirmity of the weak in faith. There’s a trick in that. Few consider themselves weak. And those that do are stronger than those that don’t in this place.
Good luck Brothers. I pray you don’t take it amiss that I am not Baptized in water. But claim Baptism nonetheless.
Jordan shuuuure loves Israel