How to Tune Thomas Young - The Temperament (Part 1)

How to tune the Thomas Young (I) classical well tempered tuning, Part 1 - The Temperament. Registered Piano Technician, Carl Radford, takes you through the steps of tuning the temperament and answers questions with David Summerhays in this favorite classical well tempered tuning.
Intro (0:00)
Why do it by ear? (1:20)
How to interpret a bearing plan (3:16)
Getting the first pitch source (8:16)
Step 1 - C4 to E4 (9:25)
Step 2 - E4 to E3 (11:00)
Single mute method (12:05)
Step 3 - E3 and C4 to G#4 (12:21)
Chicago to Milwaukee (13:10)
Step 4 - G#3 to C#4 (15:40)
Step 5 - C#4 to F#4 (17:03)
Strip muting the piano (18:28)
Step 6 - F#4 to F#3 (19:24)
Step 7 - Ab3 to Eb4 (21:03)
Step 8 - Eb4 to Bb3 (21:48)
Step 9 - Checks for pure intervals so far (22:27)
Step 10 - Bb3 and F#4 to D4 (23:05)
Step 11 - C4 and D4 to G3 (24:58)
Step 12 - E3 and D4 to A3 (25:53)
Step 13 - F#3 and E4 to B3 (27:34)
Step 14 - Bb3 and C4 to F4 (29:08)
Step 15 - F4 to F3 (29:50)
Check everything and run through it again (30:56)
Why the Thomas Young tuning? (31:30)
Thanks to:
David Summerhays - Questions & insight and notation graphics
John Summerhays - Technical assistant
To learn more about Well Temperament visit:
www.radfordpiano.com/well-tem...
Complete steps for the temperament bearing plan: www.summerhays.net/assets/upl...

[@dsummerhays]

Just got around to trying this about a month ago and I’m so pleased with the result. Thanks Carl!

[@RadfordPiano]

I'm happy you're pleased. How was the experience tuning and playing it for the first time?

[@dsummerhays]

@@RadfordPiano tuning it was easier than I expected. I think it helps that there are a bunch of pure intervals.
Overall, it’s a bit crunchier than I expected and at first the Gb and Db and even Ab bothered me. But the C is amazing and also the singing quality of the flats is interesting. I’m not going back!

[@JohnColeSitar]

Thank you for posting part 1!!! I have two seeing part 2 posted first made me nervous feeling. lol
Any chance you could do the same treatment for other historical tunings?
Seeing someone actually do it (while explaining the process), instead of just merely talking about it, was awesome!

[@RadfordPiano]

Thank you, I hope it was helpful! It's basically the same process for other Well Temperaments, just with a different bearing plan. At this point I have no plans for similar videos, but who knows....

[@theamaturepro]

What confuses me is at the start when tuners check their E octaves against the G they haven't tuned yet... I've tuned a few throw away pianos aurally both using beats (not knowing what I was doing) and by what sounded right while setting the temperament. I have perfect pitch, but not absolute pitch, so it's possible my ear for intervals is above average, but I wouldn't speculate any better than anyone able to tune. I was an assistant to a tuner my whole teenage and young adult years, so I do have a good foundation. I just need to learn the absolute rules, methods, and get some practice and I think I'd be a good tuner which is a field I've been thinking about for a few years now.

[@RadfordPiano]

It's a good question. In the example you cite, the G is simply used to compare the beats between the low E and the higher E, so that we can find out if the octave is expanded or not. The G can be tuned anywhere as long as it the beats are not too fast or too slow to hear the E-G and the G-E easily. If the beats are the same on both intervals, the octave is pure. If the lower interval is slower than the upper interval the octave is wide.

[@theamaturepro]

@@RadfordPiano that makes total sense! Thank you for clarifying.

[@ASvanRandwijck]

I just do not understand the typical resistance towards ETD's, especially those who include tons of historical temperaments. ETD"s make a close to perfect tuning curve, based on the speciffic inharmonicity of the instrument. I even tune my unisons using Tunelab and I can assure you that more than 50% of concertpianists will prefer the precisely executed tuning out of an ETD over the aural tuned concert grand.
To me it seems that traditional aural tuners tend to neglect that we use planes rather than couches with horses to transport ourselves and that we use computers rather than engraved stones to send messages to one another.
So why not fully embrace the present state of the art electronical possibilities. They are constant and almost errorless methods available and why stick to tradition, how beatiful of an craft aural tuning may be.
I get amazing results with Tunelab.
By the way: I do think that the most underestimated yet most important aspect of tuning is managing the tension in the non speaking length of the string in order to establish stability in the tuning

[@theamaturepro]

I've been considering a path in tuning but would do it aurally over electronically. I have nothing against ETDs, not even slightly, I just like the tradition of the craft and that's what makes it desirable to me. I'm also a woodsmith with a complete shop of tools, but get the most joy building furniture with hand tools over power tools. As for why other tuners are against the tech, I have no idea. It makes way more sense business wise to use ETDs if tuning is your sole income!

[@2211viljo]

I'm so glad I came across your comment and turned into Tunelab - you saved me so much of work! Thanks a lot. And it certainly helps me to get better unisons as well.

[@alexandersalazar9820]

Hello, i have a question, the orchestral works (symphonies, piano and violín concertos) used well temperaments? I

[@RadfordPiano]

No, only fixed keyboard instruments, such as pianos, organs, guitars, etc. can be tuned precisely enough for specific temperaments. Having said that, (and I'm not an orchestral player, so I'm no authority on this, so anyone who is an orchestral player feel free to chime in), my understanding is that the individual instruments in an orchestra generally strive to tune pure intervals, especially 3rds and 5ths, with the other instruments. Also, musicians become used to certain temperaments by being accompanied with piano and tend to fall into matching pitch with whatever tuning system the culture is used to at that time, and tend to strive for that temperament also when playing orchestrally. Clearly, a modern orchestra will tune to a piano differently to a piano in the modern Equal Temperament, than a Baroque orchestra would tune to a harpsichord tuned to a Well Temperament or Meantone tuning. But they seem to do this almost subconsciously. The leading tone is most notably wide in the classical well tempered tuning, and instrumentalists will often comment on that difference. When Pablo Casals played, one reviewer commented (I'm paraphrasing), that he played so out of tune, but it sounds so good... In other words, he was using a non-equal tuning that he was used to, which was more emotive, but the reviewer wasn't used to. It was only later that we understood why. So musicians strive for a tuning system or temperament, and try to match and make micro adjustments to pitch with other instruments or pianos, but it can't be done that precisely, but it is done to a certain extent subconsciously.

[@alexandersalazar9820]

@@RadfordPiano
Thank you, I really appreciate your comment, it has clarified several doubts for me

[@changchubdorje]

@@RadfordPiano usually in modern symphonic playing string players will tune with slightly contracted fifths. Brass and woodwinds are of course only tuning a single pitch. Overall the general effect is that the entire ensemble plays in something pretty close to equal temperament.

[@theamaturepro]

​@@RadfordPianoWhen playing with the orchestra, or any group, if I'm playing the third of the chord, I flatten my pitch about three cents. You're right about it being more of a natural thing most do without realizing, but for instruments who can't easily tune their pitch on the fly, they have to, or should, be constantly listening to make adjustments with their mouth and ambiture to blend in tune. I play oboe, so my apparent purpose in life is to go insane trying to not be out of tune. I can't explain why choose to play it other than the empowerment of effecting the emotion of every member of an audience, still gives me butterflies thinking about it!