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Have you tried the Radiomaster uart flasher yet? I have had really difficult ELRS recievers in the past, that wouldn't flash . I brought them back into service with this tool.
I've been at this hobby for decades...as life is I have to step away from time to time and the way things are now they move so fast. Thank you for posting this and getting me up to speed!
I'm nearly a year into FPV. The choice was easy: start with a cheap RTF kit tinywhoop then move to ELRS/HDZ. If there's a specialist usage that won't work, I'm fine to do a one-off build plus TX module on my radio.
Hey Darren - I thought it was really great the way you used the frequencies in musical notes to demonstrate the different ways that the RX and radio communicate That was a really nice touch. 😎
Those who still want 900mhz, wait for Project Gemini eLRS to be released which is 900mhz + 2.4ghz at the same time. It like multiple frequency diversity for your control link. Pretty much it will destroy anything else.
Such a great way to explain for some of the simpletons like me, I've been flying crossfire since 2017 but I've never heard an explanation like this, good job sir, I'll sub.
Good info! Just spoke to someone today who is a TBS user that doesn't think ELRS is reliable enough! He felt TBS is a more reliable system the ELRS. Personally I'm running both ELRS systems the 2.4mhz and 915mhz and have no reason to look anywhere else!!!
So help me out here, my idea was that I was going to find some 1.2-1.3 ghz vtx to place on a heavily modified and losi nightcrawler. Which would transmit back to an 80' tower I've built, at that point I would dump the signal over into a 5.8 ghz vtx then trasmit that signal where indoors i have a 5.8 ghz receiver attached to a 55" tv.. does this crossfire or elrs tranmit video or is it just used for operational control of the vehicle?
I use Tracer and ELRS. I switched from FlySky to ELRS and needed a new TX (Jumper T-Lite is way too small for my hands). I needed to replace my T-Lite with something bigger for my hands, with a much better build quality, trim swiches and a reasonable size (sorry TX16s. Chunky boy). Without the Boxer as an option I went to the Mambo with ELRS module. As good as ELRS is, my daily driver has a TracerRX - I just like the radio without the antenna sticking out or a module in the back. Today I would just go for the boxer with ELRS...
@@DarrenAllatt especially since Radiomaster doesn't offer a transparent shell. Spraying the shell from the inside looks damn cool. Neon green Mambo ftw
@@DarrenAllatt actually another good point to consider is availability. I live in Asia and it is insanely hard to get anything like crossfire without emptying a wallet and waiting months. But happymodel easily ships here and elrs rx and tx cost significantly cheaper here. I remmeber getting an rx for$10 and a 250mw TX for $20
I have a Radiomaster 2.4 ghz , and a FrSky R9 module (915 mhz) ELRS , AND a CRSF full module. I've never tried the FrSky R9 though - I flashed ELRS to it but never used it 😋 I am gravitating towards ELRS as my daily driver.
@@vicman579 yes you can! In the early days of elrs, it was a little complicated, first you had to flash the bootloader , and then compile and flash the firmware, but I'm pretty sure that you can do it now directly in elrs configurator, and also if you look at RX units, you can find 915 mhz elrs units.... Like I said though, I never tried mine, but from what I've seen online it works great, way better than the original R9 module ever did 😎
I have had couple issues with ELRS cause of companies not ELRS itself. I do feel a lil more secure with crossfire though I have alot of drones with ELRS
I use crossfire with multibind for redundancy accross hardware so i have all drones and controllers under the one ID, I never tried elrs yet as if it aint broke dont fix style of mentality, takes a while in any system to build up trust as even a good hardware company can have issues. I also only update it i really need to. If i was starting with a new fleet id consider it but sometimes better the devil you know especially with your control link. Sounds like elrs is way more advanced since i last used it. And if true it can do telemetry via the crsf Protocol then that's pretty amazing. I'm impressed elrs is doing 2.4 i didn't know that could do big range impressive
Elrs doesn’t do bi directional telemetry like crossfire so you can’t change tuning settings etc on the vehicle from the transmitter like you can with crossfire (or even frsky for that matter)
I bought a crossfire tango two because the barrier to entry is easier for beginners and the hardware is such good quality but maybe someday I'll switch to ELRS if i need to
It is worth considering ImmersionRC Ghost. I started with ELRS and had rx and tx failures, 3/5 rx's in a couple months, and my TX had short range out of the box. (frsky short). Ghost is made in Croatia, and over more than a year I haven't had a single rx failure. they update over the air automatically on bind, and ghost RX's stay noticeably cooler than ELRS ones. The Ghost module generally uses half of the power of an ELRS tx module running the same output. I do like open source, don't get me wrong. But Ghost works really well, is efficient and reliable and doesn't give money to the CCP.
ExpressLRS is primarily written by Australian developers But If you are worried about companies giving money to the CCP, then FPV is not for you. Your FC, ESC, Motors, VTX are all as you say, produced by companies which give money to the CCP. So that argument of yours is void. If you are getting horrible range with ELRS, there’s something not right with your setup. What transmitter and receivers are you using? Ps, Ghost isn’t made in Croatia - it’s developed there; manufactured in Shenzen, so the ODM making the hardware, giving money to CCP. All that being said, if you are finding something is working for you - go for it
@@DarrenAllatt I had a HM24TX that I bought with EP1 and EP2 Rx's. I was getting a dbm of -110 at a low packet rate at 100mw only 50 meters away from me even with EP1's, with link quality dropping below 40/100. I confirmed the antenna was correct, was the correct connector, (no mismatching of RPSMA and SMA,) and continuity tested the UFL connector on the board, and used at least 4 different RX's with no change. I had 3/5 RX's die either from overheating or very, very light crashes in grass on a 65g 3 inch toothpick in a little more than 3 months and threw in the towel. I've been using Ghost for over a year with no failures even at race events and in crashes where I have written off my drone.
TLDR for my comment that disappeared, all my gear is either made in croatia via orqa and ghost, or second hand. I have not bought any new fpv gear including batteries for 3 years. the Orqa website confirms ghost is made in the EU
So help me out here, my idea was that I was going to find some 1.2-1.3 ghz vtx to place on a heavily modified and losi nightcrawler. Which would transmit back to an 80' tower I've built, at that point I would dump the signal over into a 5.8 ghz vtx then trasmit that signal where indoors i have a 5.8 ghz receiver attached to a 55" tv.. does this crossfire or elrs tranmit video or is it just used for operational control of the vehicle?
Great video. I opted for ELRS when "graduating" from DJI PNP. I wonder if it's save or recommended to update everything from 2.4 to 3.x or if I should just leave it at the older systems as it just works. If I want to use the binding phrase on a newer drone I get the message "2.5" is not supported or similar.
Nice explanation. I want to try elrs and build a micro. I don’t think it’s feasible to change out all my existing quads from crossfire but who knows moving forward
Crossfire flying from the beginning. One failsafe in all those years. ELRS the past year, on 14 drones. I still don't trust it for long range. The receiver updating does not stay current in the configurator. New Foxeer 2.4, blue tooth connection gives me the name and version. I go to update and ELRS configurator does not have that one listed. Tells me not enough space. Says to use 2.52 then update to current. Well 2.52 does not list the new Foxeer receiver. I ended up bricking it. ELRS devs are volunteers but ELRS still a pain in the rear end!
Hi Darren.. I'm and fpv newbie (IMO). I'm just curious of your experience with ELRS. In about two weeks, it'll be 1 year since I start my fpv journey and I mostly still fly on velocidrone, then a Mobula6 ELRS 2nd, and on a Volador 3rd with probably around 80, 15, 5 percent flight time respectively. I have had 1 failsafe so far with my limited real life flying on the 5 inch drone and it happened with a Boxer and a Radiomaster RP1 receiver (I forgot the TX power output but I run 250/500 default on 500 packet rates). However, I do recall failsafes as well on the Mobula, but I never account for it since I'm a newbie usually just go gungho around my house indoor with it and don't think about my radio link critically as someone who is well seasoned in radio control hobby. What about you though? How is your experience with failsafes on ELRS? Is it often? I work in the film industry, and 100% fpv pilots that I meet on film sets run crossfire (and DJI for video). So professionals 100% prefer it. However, they do concede that it may because of their expericence in the early days of ELRS so they dont even think about running ELRS 5-8 years into their craft. So what do you think? With your own experience with failsafes on ELRS would you run it on a critical environment where and when you absolutely have to perform? (like on a film set where time and wasted time is very crucial) I ask this because I'm at a point of thinking of investing on the crossfire ecosystem because I do want to do professional work.
You can fail safe on any system, including crossfire. I don’t know your antenna setup on your radio or drone; it also depends on which direction you are flying; did you fly into a null point of your antenna? If you get your antenna set up on crossfire wrong, you’re going to failsafe as well, or, if you fly into the antennas null point If you increase power output and decrease packet you get more range and penetration ELRS has both 2.4ghz and 900mhz - just depends on which hardware you have So getting ELRS 900mhz put you on the same frequency as crossfire I don’t experience fail safe with espressLRS I’m not gonna tell you which system to buy, especially if you’re gonna be flying cinema rigs because I don’t want you to come back and say what I told you to buy this and you had a fail safe, and I lost your drone What you should do is buy both preferably secondhand test each and see what you’re more comfortable with
For sure, just wanna know your first hand experience with failsafes since you have a lot more time on the setup. Mine on the five inch happened right after take-off luckily. Three meters away and thank God just a meter or two off the ground. Otherwise it has been going great really. I also would love to stick with ELRS. Like you said Crossfire means another module that I have to plug on the bay. I'll read about antennas null point now that you mention it. Thanks for the input! @@DarrenAllatt
@@menalendrathe other thing is, how do you know it was a fail safe and not an ESC de-sync? What’s your build like? Did you have your antenna on, how was your antenna facing? There are a lot of variables Best to just spend time in the air to see what it’s like
@@DarrenAllatt its HGLRC F722 with Tmotor Velox 45A v2 BL32 with Xing2 2207 1750 motors. I put the RP1 T-antenna horizontally on the rear tpu the volador frame provided. My rx antrnna I ran horizontal as well that day. Man you are right it could also be esc desync now that I read about it?? Basically I suddenly just lost control of the quad right after take off and it flipped on the air and fell. I then disconnected and reconnect the LiPo to restart and all is well again. Sorry Im such a newb Darren 😂 But yes I will have to keep note as it hasnt happened again and it really just happened that one time.
The self appointed messiah’s at google decided to allow me to find your channel today and I’m glad they did because I find it to be very useful content. I guess I now need to sacrifice an iPhone to keep them pleased. Subscription added.
flying long range over the ocean.. 50hz crossfire all day every day. because its one thing I don't have to worry about unlike video or battery... but every thing else 100% ERLS
I’ve done mountain surfing 4km away from me using 50hz dynamic power ELRS. No problems at all. I think it hit 500mw for a few seconds but mostly stayed at 250mw.
Thanks for the video, explains a lot. I have one question though. If I was to buy say radio master Xpress LRS transmitter can I use any other brand express LRS receiver or do I need to stick with the same brand as the transmitter? Thanks.
That’s a placebo. Most pilots claim they can tell the difference between 50hz and 500hz packet rates, but in a blind test - they can’t and won’t be able to tell.
@@DarrenAllatt That is so true i have done that test with crossfire 50 - 150 and every person i did that test with got it wrong the brain cant comprehend the difference so its a placebo
I don't have experience with Matek RX's but I have used extensively HappyModel and now using Radiomaster RX's... Getting bad RX's from one manufacturer is one of 'cons' of Open Source.
Okay i hear you but the real thing is that TBS's hardware is better than any of expresslrs makers and i yes i run both systems and had more failures with elrs than tbs crossfire so once again in the real world you get what you pay for in life the jumper t pro is bad and commando 8 is a little better and the zorro well mine went up in smoke while in use poor quality and the tango 2 pro just keeps working and is easy to repair if needed { you get what you pay for ]
I have a Crux3 + HDZero Whoop Lite VTX + Crossfire with smaller antenna and when I fly in the park between the trees, I lose the signal faster than the image in the goggles after some 300-400m. I hope as change to elrs with T antenna, I will be able to fly further. What do you think about it? Ps I'm waiting for Boxer radio as a replacement for Tx16s with 4in1
Yes you should have more range & penetration with the Mini T on ELRS. However that sort of range with Crossfire, even on the Mini T is not normal. Check your antenna polarisation to make sure they’re aligned and also that both RX and TX are on the same frequency.
I would never recommend ELRS to new pilots because you become the support person for them, with Crossfire the extra cost goes to dedicated support, which you don't have to deal with. However if you have lots of quads on frsky, it totally makes sense to them move over, and ELRS is certainly budget-friendly and has a great track record.
@@DarrenAllatt You need to update the information in your head about crossfire. Never an issue with updating period! I have 15 drones on crossfire and it is a joy to bind and update. I do like the binding phrase in ELRS. ELRS you have to know all the steps and procedures to get it working. Once I learned an okay process, but the receiver updates in the configuration they are not all correct, names not correct and missing some receiver versions. Crossfire takes me less than 3 minutes to solder and bind and update. ELRS...well let's say at least 15 minutes.
@@JDDupuy that's where we get into the pro's and con's of Open Source vs Closed Source. My information on crossfire is current. I still have a Transmitter and Receiver that I use for reviews and testing
Chances are, what you’ve heard about it not working is probably more user error than anything else. But, if you are loving crossfire and it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
You answer you own question, you get what you pay, so far only dragonlink and crossfire are king, the rest is a gamble. Specially with expensive models.
Lemme see what I'm running. . . Betaflight: open source BlueJay: open source EdgeTX: open source OpenVTx: open source Hard to rationalize Crossfire, considering. Besides, I'm a skinflint. ELRS it is.
RIP tbs. Their crossfire rx isn't even number 1 top seller on their site anymore. Those homies are selling more analogue vtx's than their main product. Analogue.
cost savings is real but at a total of $200 (and I can use that money to buy/build another quad, WHAT?) for HIS whole fleet which he did not do as I did not convert my WHOLE fleet, I sorry. the only real advantage is the antenna. As they say, how do you say it, "RUBBISH" The xfire update system is WAY more superior to the almost attempt by expresslrs period. FYI, frsky is pronounced f-r-sky not free-sky, like so many biases out there, this is a 2.4ghz (flysky) protocol and it is way better then most have been lead to believe. I do agree that current baby micro's deserve a micro antenna. And this argument that more manufactures are better is really rubbish, there is so much garbage (rubbish) lrs crap, junk out there and not 1 is the best choice. And the radio argument is also, built in lrs in a radio is rubbish as well, none of built in lrc modules put OUT FULL LRS power. frsky, (again not freesky get it right please) dude does NOT send 1's and 0's as described. xfire 900mhz is way more superior then lsr. again period., the again update system really is rubbish in lrs then xfire at 900mhz. AND the description of lrs is inaccurate, it's is freq hopping system, and gee wiz the lrs is a copy of FLYSKY! This IS a lrs sales pitch period.
Hey Larry, I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed comment. But, there are some things that need addressing in your comment. Frsky pronunciation. According to FrSky's own documentation, 'Welcome to Taranis', link at the bottom of this comment, Frsky themselves state "FrSky (pronounced Free Sky)" not F R Sky. Cost of the WHOLE Fleet. I do agree someone isn't going to do their whole fleet at once, however what I was implying was that over a whole fleet the cost ads up, even if you acquire your fleet incrementally like I have; hence why I stated that are $11 per quad difference doesn't seem like much, but ads up over the whole fleet. This IS an ELRS sales pitch period. Well the video is titled "Why I fly ExpressLRS not Crossfire" and I do state at the very beginning, you need work out what is best for you, and it's clear that these are my reasons for flying ExpressLRS. If you thought this was going to be a purely objective and statement of facts of the differences between the two, well, you have really misinterpreted both the Thumbnail and Video which make it clear this is MY PERSONAL reasons. FlySky and ExpressLRS Sorry, you are wrong here. FlySky is capable of Frequency Shift Keying like Crossfire, Amplitude Shift Keying like Free Sky as well as Gaussian Shift Keying. Also the chipsets used in the Transmitters and Receivers for FlySky are not the same used by ELRS. ELRS uses the SX1280, while none of the FlySky chips (ATmega328P, Si4432, CC2500, CYRF6936 or nRF24L01+) have LoRA capabilities. ExpressLRS hardware is garbage, Radio's ouput the stated power levels etc That's your personal opinion, it doesn't sound like you have first hand experience with it, so it's not really fair to pass judgement on something you haven't actually used. Crossfire is Superior to ExpressLRS If you judge a fish to climb a tree, then a monkey is superior to a fish. Well, no. Stating Crossfire is superior is your own opinion, it's not objectively superior because it has limitations (such as packet rates) that ELRS doesn't. Again, as I have said, not one system is better than the other, it's what is best for your needs. It sounds like you are someone who needs whatevever it is that Crossfire gives you, awesome, but that doesn't make Crossfire objectively superior. FkySky doesn't send 1's and 0's The whole point of the analogy and explanation using simple language was so the average pilot who this video is for, can understand the basic concepts of. That being said, Frsky (Free Sky) sends a digital signal, it doesn't send analog signals, thus it is sending 1's and 0's using Amplitude Shift Keying. Update System between ExpressLRS and Crossfire You are mainly referring to the OTA update from the Transmitter to the Receiver, I admit, that's cool; however if you want to run the latest version of Crossfire, you have to update your Transmitter. How you update your Transmitter is, you guessed it, the same as flashing an ExpressLRS transmitter. You have to connect your TX to Agent M, then after that's updated, you have to then update each of your receivers. So objectively, the same difficulty. Frsky - "Welcome to Taranis" www.frsky-rc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Manual/Quickstart%20Guide%20for%20FrSky%20Taranis%20with%20OpenTX.pdf
@@DarrenAllatt u don't have to update your receivers in xfire, it just does it (with your eyes closed). Yes I use all five protocols (Flysky,R9M, FRsky, xfire, elrs) Flysky (sorry your accent may for FR sky or freesky) sounded like flysky) and as far as range and penetration yes xfire is better. I have the 1w Beta FPV module in my T16 and will do some range testing to get a mile away around the other side of a hill (Flysky 2.4 no prob). But if your looking for a good lightweight receiver/antenna combo can't beat elrs. One of my biggest frustration was spending 7 hours trying to get a betafpv superd diversity to update via usb, it would never get started with transfer. Turns out that the 2 reviver chips pulled too much power for the usb to function, wound using battery and wifi'd it. what a mess, xfire would have did it all for me. U gotta love this stuff.
@@fpvkabo well, your experience with the betafpv super d, that’s an issue with open source stuff because some manufacturers have quality issues, betafpv is known for it. While crossfire, tbs and only tbs make it. To update your crossfire receivers, you need to update your TX first, then when they connect you have to update them. Crossfire can do that because there is only 1 firmware target, while ELRS every rx has a different target. So not magic, benefit of closed source.
My crossfire just says updating receiver automatically, I believe there is enough flash in the xfire TX to store the itty bitty different receivers flash, all I need to do is update 1 thing, and the rest of receivers are updated as u connect. Neither of the superd's were deflective just drew too much power, got 2 both did the same, but updated when battery was plugged in and did a wireless update. Having 1 manufacture (if they insist on quality) is better for the consumer. So many manufactures of elrs introduce so many different kinds of problems, not just defects, but different implementations on led behavior and binding differences just to name a few. Different manufactures read the specifications and interpret them differently leading to pain in the arse for the customer.
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Have you tried the Radiomaster uart flasher yet? I have had really difficult ELRS recievers in the past, that wouldn't flash . I brought them back into service with this tool.
This is the best explainer to the explanation, explained that I have ever heard so far, thank you for your passion!
Wonderful explanation Darren. I was die hard Crossfire, but since getting comfortable with Elrs, I haven't looked back.
Thanks Mike, appreciate it. Glad you are getting the most out of ELRS
I've been at this hobby for decades...as life is I have to step away from time to time and the way things are now they move so fast. Thank you for posting this and getting me up to speed!
You are welcome, and welcome back !
I'm nearly a year into FPV. The choice was easy: start with a cheap RTF kit tinywhoop then move to ELRS/HDZ. If there's a specialist usage that won't work, I'm fine to do a one-off build plus TX module on my radio.
Hey Darren - I thought it was really great the way you used the frequencies in musical notes to demonstrate the different ways that the RX and radio communicate
That was a really nice touch. 😎
🙏 thank you!
Those who still want 900mhz, wait for Project Gemini eLRS to be released which is 900mhz + 2.4ghz at the same time. It like multiple frequency diversity for your control link.
Pretty much it will destroy anything else.
Have you got a link to the project?
@@DarrenAllatt Only thing I have is Jye's video and what has said along with Ian (Mads Tech)
th-cam.com/video/VcC50cX3a7E/w-d-xo.html
It would cost me way too much money to switch over from crossfire to Express LRS
Such a great way to explain for some of the simpletons like me, I've been flying crossfire since 2017 but I've never heard an explanation like this, good job sir, I'll sub.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Good info! Just spoke to someone today who is a TBS user that doesn't think ELRS is reliable enough! He felt TBS is a more reliable system the ELRS. Personally I'm running both ELRS systems the 2.4mhz and 915mhz and have no reason to look anywhere else!!!
That’s like talking to someone in 1908 who believes horses were better then cars
Ive been using ELRS exclusively for the last year and its been completely reliable regardless of the distance
So help me out here, my idea was that I was going to find some 1.2-1.3 ghz vtx to place on a heavily modified and losi nightcrawler. Which would transmit back to an 80' tower I've built, at that point I would dump the signal over into a 5.8 ghz vtx then trasmit that signal where indoors i have a 5.8 ghz receiver attached to a 55" tv.. does this crossfire or elrs tranmit video or is it just used for operational control of the vehicle?
I use Tracer and ELRS.
I switched from FlySky to ELRS and needed a new TX (Jumper T-Lite is way too small for my hands).
I needed to replace my T-Lite with something bigger for my hands, with a much better build quality, trim swiches and a reasonable size (sorry TX16s. Chunky boy).
Without the Boxer as an option I went to the Mambo with ELRS module.
As good as ELRS is, my daily driver has a TracerRX - I just like the radio without the antenna sticking out or a module in the back.
Today I would just go for the boxer with ELRS...
If it’s working for you and you don’t have issues, then no need to change it.
@@DarrenAllatt especially since Radiomaster doesn't offer a transparent shell. Spraying the shell from the inside looks damn cool. Neon green Mambo ftw
@Ra Kr love it. Got my Green Tango 2 too 💚 holla if you need clear shells, got them innstock
It's cheaper, antennas are smaller... Faster packet rates. Smaller receivers also. ..,...
Agreed!
@@DarrenAllatt actually another good point to consider is availability. I live in Asia and it is insanely hard to get anything like crossfire without emptying a wallet and waiting months. But happymodel easily ships here and elrs rx and tx cost significantly cheaper here. I remmeber getting an rx for$10 and a 250mw TX for $20
@@im_ricebowl excellent point!
You’re right about size… until you compare 900hz ELRS to 900hz XF… that would be a more fair comparison, I think.
@@ChrisGripeos you are right it is a more direct comparison. However, the buying choice for pilots is ELRS 2.4 vs Crossfire - hence the comparison.
I have a Radiomaster 2.4 ghz , and a FrSky R9 module (915 mhz) ELRS , AND a CRSF full module. I've never tried the FrSky R9 though - I flashed ELRS to it but never used it 😋
I am gravitating towards ELRS as my daily driver.
It’s a great daily!
What? Excuse my lack of knowledge. You can flash ELRS on this module? Anyone here tested this? Very interested...
@@vicman579 yes you can! In the early days of elrs, it was a little complicated, first you had to flash the bootloader , and then compile and flash the firmware, but I'm pretty sure that you can do it now directly in elrs configurator, and also if you look at RX units, you can find 915 mhz elrs units....
Like I said though, I never tried mine, but from what I've seen online it works great, way better than the original R9 module ever did 😎
@@sunsetpark_fpv Will check more into this! Thanks!!!
@@vicman579 yes you can flash Frsky R9 with ExpressLRS, but its a hassle and it was the thing before you could easily buy ELRS products.
I have a tx16s with elrs 2.4 integrated and a separate elrs 900 module. It's the best combo ever. Everything is setup the exact same way
Boom! That is perfection.
Darren, thank you for an excellent explanation, I got a lot out this video.
I have had couple issues with ELRS cause of companies not ELRS itself. I do feel a lil more secure with crossfire though I have alot of drones with ELRS
Same, had alot of failsafes in ELRS, and none on Crossfire.
@@Fly_High_FPV Me too, many failsafes in ELRS, one in many years with crossfire. Watch some TH-cam videos and you see them happening all the time.
Great video, great explanation! Personally sticking with crossfire since I already invested years ago
Gotta do what’s right for you
I use crossfire with multibind for redundancy accross hardware so i have all drones and controllers under the one ID, I never tried elrs yet as if it aint broke dont fix style of mentality, takes a while in any system to build up trust as even a good hardware company can have issues. I also only update it i really need to. If i was starting with a new fleet id consider it but sometimes better the devil you know especially with your control link. Sounds like elrs is way more advanced since i last used it. And if true it can do telemetry via the crsf Protocol then that's pretty amazing. I'm impressed elrs is doing 2.4 i didn't know that could do big range impressive
72MHz long-wire for the win! 🙂
Thanks Bruce. 😂
8:11 that was crafty. Nice use of sound waves to visualize 🎉
I’m glad that example helped you
Thanks this is so well explained ! I have learned a lot !
Glad it was helpful!
Cannon or Nikon... Windows vs Linux... Now got new fight ExpressLRS or Crossfire )
Nice details about 2.4 vs 900. Perhaps that's why I see little 900 (868) gear for sale. Thx.
Elrs doesn’t do bi directional telemetry like crossfire so you can’t change tuning settings etc on the vehicle from the transmitter like you can with crossfire (or even frsky for that matter)
Which vehicle?
Betaflight OSD solves that
I bought a crossfire tango two because the barrier to entry is easier for beginners and the hardware is such good quality but maybe someday I'll switch to ELRS if i need to
Thank you Darren! Your explanation is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
You are welcome!
It is worth considering ImmersionRC Ghost. I started with ELRS and had rx and tx failures, 3/5 rx's in a couple months, and my TX had short range out of the box. (frsky short).
Ghost is made in Croatia, and over more than a year I haven't had a single rx failure. they update over the air automatically on bind, and ghost RX's stay noticeably cooler than ELRS ones. The Ghost module generally uses half of the power of an ELRS tx module running the same output.
I do like open source, don't get me wrong. But Ghost works really well, is efficient and reliable and doesn't give money to the CCP.
ExpressLRS is primarily written by Australian developers
But
If you are worried about companies giving money to the CCP, then FPV is not for you.
Your FC, ESC, Motors, VTX are all as you say, produced by companies which give money to the CCP.
So that argument of yours is void.
If you are getting horrible range with ELRS, there’s something not right with your setup.
What transmitter and receivers are you using?
Ps, Ghost isn’t made in Croatia - it’s developed there; manufactured in Shenzen, so the ODM making the hardware, giving money to CCP.
All that being said, if you are finding something is working for you - go for it
@@DarrenAllatt
I had a HM24TX that I bought with EP1 and EP2 Rx's. I was getting a dbm of -110 at a low packet rate at 100mw only 50 meters away from me even with EP1's, with link quality dropping below 40/100.
I confirmed the antenna was correct, was the correct connector, (no mismatching of RPSMA and SMA,) and continuity tested the UFL connector on the board, and used at least 4 different RX's with no change.
I had 3/5 RX's die either from overheating or very, very light crashes in grass on a 65g 3 inch toothpick in a little more than 3 months and threw in the towel.
I've been using Ghost for over a year with no failures even at race events and in crashes where I have written off my drone.
Did you delete my other comment?
TLDR for my comment that disappeared, all my gear is either made in croatia via orqa and ghost, or second hand. I have not bought any new fpv gear including batteries for 3 years. the Orqa website confirms ghost is made in the EU
@@dankusmemus2350 no, you posted a link to a Captain Drone video, I have URL's in comments blocked to prevent spa,
So help me out here, my idea was that I was going to find some 1.2-1.3 ghz vtx to place on a heavily modified and losi nightcrawler. Which would transmit back to an 80' tower I've built, at that point I would dump the signal over into a 5.8 ghz vtx then trasmit that signal where indoors i have a 5.8 ghz receiver attached to a 55" tv.. does this crossfire or elrs tranmit video or is it just used for operational control of the vehicle?
Both Crossfire and ELRS are just control on 2.4ghz
Great video.
I opted for ELRS when "graduating" from DJI PNP.
I wonder if it's save or recommended to update everything from 2.4 to 3.x or if I should just leave it at the older systems as it just works.
If I want to use the binding phrase on a newer drone I get the message "2.5" is not supported or similar.
Same major version number 2 or 3 on tx module and quad should work. I've left mine at 2.x but will investigate upgrading soon.
Yes it’s absolutely safe to upgrade to 3.2. You are probably getting that message as you don’t have a binding phrase on anything at the moment.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
@@eturnerx Thank you!
@@DarrenAllatt Thanks. As I haven't seen any improvements that I want I'll probably leave it at that. How do I find out which version my BNF uses?
ok now a question no one asked :D
what's the name of that "song" you used for explaining frequencies overshouting? :D
and thanks for that video!
Sorry I couldnt find the song in the video and its not in my timeline because I have have done something funky
Nice explanation. I want to try elrs and build a micro. I don’t think it’s feasible to change out all my existing quads from crossfire but who knows moving forward
Crossfire flying from the beginning. One failsafe in all those years. ELRS the past year, on 14 drones. I still don't trust it for long range. The receiver updating does not stay current in the configurator. New Foxeer 2.4, blue tooth connection gives me the name and version. I go to update and ELRS configurator does not have that one listed. Tells me not enough space. Says to use 2.52 then update to current. Well 2.52 does not list the new Foxeer receiver. I ended up bricking it. ELRS devs are volunteers but ELRS still a pain in the rear end!
Hey JD, always appreciate your input! That's a problem with Open Source, not necessarily an ELRS issue, but part of the ELRS ecosystem.
Got question - is there ELRS repeater? Or can I build one using any of existing rx+tx?
Not that I know of, I guess you possibly could. How far are you planning on going that you need a repeater?
Can the 03 air unit plug directly into the Skystar F722 mini hd pro FC? Can you give me some advice on how to wire it up thanks...
You will need to check the manual for the O3 Air Unit and the Skystar flight controller to ensure the pin out is the same.
Hi Darren.. I'm and fpv newbie (IMO). I'm just curious of your experience with ELRS. In about two weeks, it'll be 1 year since I start my fpv journey and I mostly still fly on velocidrone, then a Mobula6 ELRS 2nd, and on a Volador 3rd with probably around 80, 15, 5 percent flight time respectively. I have had 1 failsafe so far with my limited real life flying on the 5 inch drone and it happened with a Boxer and a Radiomaster RP1 receiver (I forgot the TX power output but I run 250/500 default on 500 packet rates). However, I do recall failsafes as well on the Mobula, but I never account for it since I'm a newbie usually just go gungho around my house indoor with it and don't think about my radio link critically as someone who is well seasoned in radio control hobby.
What about you though? How is your experience with failsafes on ELRS? Is it often?
I work in the film industry, and 100% fpv pilots that I meet on film sets run crossfire (and DJI for video). So professionals 100% prefer it. However, they do concede that it may because of their expericence in the early days of ELRS so they dont even think about running ELRS 5-8 years into their craft.
So what do you think? With your own experience with failsafes on ELRS would you run it on a critical environment where and when you absolutely have to perform? (like on a film set where time and wasted time is very crucial) I ask this because I'm at a point of thinking of investing on the crossfire ecosystem because I do want to do professional work.
You can fail safe on any system, including crossfire.
I don’t know your antenna setup on your radio or drone; it also depends on which direction you are flying; did you fly into a null point of your antenna?
If you get your antenna set up on crossfire wrong, you’re going to failsafe as well, or, if you fly into the antennas null point
If you increase power output and decrease packet you get more range and penetration
ELRS has both 2.4ghz and 900mhz - just depends on which hardware you have
So getting ELRS 900mhz put you on the same frequency as crossfire
I don’t experience fail safe with espressLRS
I’m not gonna tell you which system to buy, especially if you’re gonna be flying cinema rigs because I don’t want you to come back and say what I told you to buy this and you had a fail safe, and I lost your drone
What you should do is buy both preferably secondhand test each and see what you’re more comfortable with
For sure, just wanna know your first hand experience with failsafes since you have a lot more time on the setup.
Mine on the five inch happened right after take-off luckily. Three meters away and thank God just a meter or two off the ground. Otherwise it has been going great really.
I also would love to stick with ELRS. Like you said Crossfire means another module that I have to plug on the bay. I'll read about antennas null point now that you mention it.
Thanks for the input!
@@DarrenAllatt
@@menalendrathe other thing is, how do you know it was a fail safe and not an ESC de-sync?
What’s your build like? Did you have your antenna on, how was your antenna facing?
There are a lot of variables
Best to just spend time in the air to see what it’s like
@@DarrenAllatt its HGLRC F722 with Tmotor Velox 45A v2 BL32 with Xing2 2207 1750 motors. I put the RP1 T-antenna horizontally on the rear tpu the volador frame provided. My rx antrnna I ran horizontal as well that day.
Man you are right it could also be esc desync now that I read about it?? Basically I suddenly just lost control of the quad right after take off and it flipped on the air and fell. I then disconnected and reconnect the LiPo to restart and all is well again. Sorry Im such a newb Darren 😂
But yes I will have to keep note as it hasnt happened again and it really just happened that one time.
The self appointed messiah’s at google decided to allow me to find your channel today and I’m glad they did because I find it to be very useful content. I guess I now need to sacrifice an iPhone to keep them pleased. Subscription added.
Thank you. May your sacrifice be worthy
flying long range over the ocean.. 50hz crossfire all day every day. because its one thing I don't have to worry about unlike video or battery... but every thing else 100% ERLS
I’ve done mountain surfing 4km away from me using 50hz dynamic power ELRS. No problems at all. I think it hit 500mw for a few seconds but mostly stayed at 250mw.
Thanks for the video, explains a lot. I have one question though. If I was to buy say radio master Xpress LRS transmitter can I use any other brand express LRS receiver or do I need to stick with the same brand as the transmitter? Thanks.
You can use any brand of ExpressLRS hardware as long as it’s the same frequency ie 2.4ghz and same major firmware version ie 3.x
@@DarrenAllatt thanks for the first response, I appreciate it…
somebody said that Tracer feels more locked in than ELRS despite of the update frequency.
That’s a placebo. Most pilots claim they can tell the difference between 50hz and 500hz packet rates, but in a blind test - they can’t and won’t be able to tell.
@@DarrenAllatt That is so true i have done that test with crossfire 50 - 150 and every person i did that test with got it wrong the brain cant comprehend the difference so its a placebo
@@grampafpv8013 if Stingerswam and Bardwell can’t tell, what’s to say, as you’ve confirmed - the average pilot can
@@DarrenAllatt i don't think anybody can to tell you the truth
I'm on my 4th BAD Matek RX. How can that be cheaper than one TBS Rx?
I don't have experience with Matek RX's but I have used extensively HappyModel and now using Radiomaster RX's... Getting bad RX's from one manufacturer is one of 'cons' of Open Source.
Okay i hear you but the real thing is that TBS's hardware is better than any of expresslrs makers and i yes i run both systems and had more failures with elrs than tbs crossfire so once again in the real world you get what you pay for in life the jumper t pro is bad and commando 8 is a little better and the zorro well mine went up in smoke while in use poor quality and the tango 2 pro just keeps working and is easy to repair if needed { you get what you pay for ]
I have a Crux3 + HDZero Whoop Lite VTX + Crossfire with smaller antenna and when I fly in the park between the trees, I lose the signal faster than the image in the goggles after some 300-400m. I hope as change to elrs with T antenna, I will be able to fly further. What do you think about it? Ps I'm waiting for Boxer radio as a replacement for Tx16s with 4in1
Yes you should have more range & penetration with the Mini T on ELRS.
However that sort of range with Crossfire, even on the Mini T is not normal. Check your antenna polarisation to make sure they’re aligned and also that both RX and TX are on the same frequency.
@@DarrenAllatt I'm aware of this. I know that mini T antenna on crossfire is made for 915 and in EU we need to use 868mhz so...
It's pretty much spot on man!💯
Thanks josiph, appreciate the support
I would never recommend ELRS to new pilots because you become the support person for them, with Crossfire the extra cost goes to dedicated support, which you don't have to deal with. However if you have lots of quads on frsky, it totally makes sense to them move over, and ELRS is certainly budget-friendly and has a great track record.
I disagree. If you want to update crossfire to the latest version other than what’s on your TX, then you run into issues with crossfire.
@@DarrenAllatt You need to update the information in your head about crossfire. Never an issue with updating period! I have 15 drones on crossfire and it is a joy to bind and update. I do like the binding phrase in ELRS. ELRS you have to know all the steps and procedures to get it working. Once I learned an okay process, but the receiver updates in the configuration they are not all correct, names not correct and missing some receiver versions. Crossfire takes me less than 3 minutes to solder and bind and update. ELRS...well let's say at least 15 minutes.
@@JDDupuy that's where we get into the pro's and con's of Open Source vs Closed Source.
My information on crossfire is current. I still have a Transmitter and Receiver that I use for reviews and testing
@@JDDupuy I’ll admit it does take longer to configure elrs but calling binding/updating crossfire a joy is a stretch imo.
@@DarrenAllatt never been an issue for me in 5 years on crossfire
really nice explained thanks
Learn to Build a 5" Freestyle FPV Drone 🎓 www.darrenfpv.com/buildmasterclass-5freestyle
This is is helpful for me.
I love my elrs setup.
Do you know if anyone has tried 8S for racing? The foxeer stack can handle it. Just need matching kv motors and gnb 8s lipo
Multi GP only permits up to 6S so trying 8S for racing is a moot point.
ELRS is the shit! Cheaper, as good or better performance on a higher frequency, and of course the ease of setup/use.
Agreed!
Crossfire all day heard to much stuff about elrs not working right I've never had a problem with crossfire 🤟 you do you though
Chances are, what you’ve heard about it not working is probably more user error than anything else. But, if you are loving crossfire and it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
@@DarrenAllatt problems all day in ELRS in my experience. Went back to crossfire after 6 months
You answer you own question, you get what you pay, so far only dragonlink and crossfire are king, the rest is a gamble. Specially with expensive models.
I focus purely on FPV, drones, and not model planes planes, so dragonlink is well outside of my required use case
it should be 'TBS vs ELRS'
Agreed
Elrs ftw 🙌🏼
Absolutely!
Cool story bro
@@creationlabsinc.189 it seems you are just going through the comments and trolling.
Lemme see what I'm running. . .
Betaflight: open source
BlueJay: open source
EdgeTX: open source
OpenVTx: open source
Hard to rationalize Crossfire, considering. Besides, I'm a skinflint. ELRS it is.
RIP tbs. Their crossfire rx isn't even number 1 top seller on their site anymore. Those homies are selling more analogue vtx's than their main product. Analogue.
sorry but I refuse to think anything is better than my Flysky AFHDS 2.4 system
/s
Which was my key point at the very beginning it’s not about what is best news about what is best for you
@@DarrenAllatt you say that but the “fanboy” remark was without a doubt a slam at the crossfire users.
@@creationlabsinc.189 how did you arrive at the conclusion it was “a slam at the crossfire users”
Crossfire was.. engineered... and elrs was done by some under grads.......... Like go pro and run cam..!
Hahaha. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried
@@DarrenAllatt 😆
Aliexpress, sent me fake goods.
ELRS on top
no where else it belongs!
cost savings is real but at a total of $200 (and I can use that money to buy/build another quad, WHAT?) for HIS whole fleet which he did not do as I did not convert my WHOLE fleet, I sorry. the only real advantage is the antenna. As they say, how do you say it, "RUBBISH" The xfire update system is WAY more superior to the almost attempt by expresslrs period. FYI, frsky is pronounced f-r-sky not free-sky, like so many biases out there, this is a 2.4ghz (flysky) protocol and it is way better then most have been lead to believe. I do agree that current baby micro's deserve a micro antenna. And this argument that more manufactures are better is really rubbish, there is so much garbage (rubbish) lrs crap, junk out there and not 1 is the best choice. And the radio argument is also, built in lrs in a radio is rubbish as well, none of built in lrc modules put OUT FULL LRS power. frsky, (again not freesky get it right please) dude does NOT send 1's and 0's as described. xfire 900mhz is way more superior then lsr. again period., the again update system really is rubbish in lrs then xfire at 900mhz. AND the description of lrs is inaccurate, it's is freq hopping system, and gee wiz the lrs is a copy of FLYSKY! This IS a lrs sales pitch period.
Hey Larry,
I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed comment. But, there are some things that need addressing in your comment.
Frsky pronunciation.
According to FrSky's own documentation, 'Welcome to Taranis', link at the bottom of this comment, Frsky themselves state "FrSky (pronounced Free Sky)" not F R Sky.
Cost of the WHOLE Fleet.
I do agree someone isn't going to do their whole fleet at once, however what I was implying was that over a whole fleet the cost ads up, even if you acquire your fleet incrementally like I have; hence why I stated that are $11 per quad difference doesn't seem like much, but ads up over the whole fleet.
This IS an ELRS sales pitch period.
Well the video is titled "Why I fly ExpressLRS not Crossfire" and I do state at the very beginning, you need work out what is best for you, and it's clear that these are my reasons for flying ExpressLRS. If you thought this was going to be a purely objective and statement of facts of the differences between the two, well, you have really misinterpreted both the Thumbnail and Video which make it clear this is MY PERSONAL reasons.
FlySky and ExpressLRS
Sorry, you are wrong here. FlySky is capable of Frequency Shift Keying like Crossfire, Amplitude Shift Keying like Free Sky as well as Gaussian Shift Keying. Also the chipsets used in the Transmitters and Receivers for FlySky are not the same used by ELRS. ELRS uses the SX1280, while none of the FlySky chips (ATmega328P, Si4432, CC2500, CYRF6936 or nRF24L01+) have LoRA capabilities.
ExpressLRS hardware is garbage, Radio's ouput the stated power levels etc
That's your personal opinion, it doesn't sound like you have first hand experience with it, so it's not really fair to pass judgement on something you haven't actually used.
Crossfire is Superior to ExpressLRS
If you judge a fish to climb a tree, then a monkey is superior to a fish. Well, no. Stating Crossfire is superior is your own opinion, it's not objectively superior because it has limitations (such as packet rates) that ELRS doesn't. Again, as I have said, not one system is better than the other, it's what is best for your needs. It sounds like you are someone who needs whatevever it is that Crossfire gives you, awesome, but that doesn't make Crossfire objectively superior.
FkySky doesn't send 1's and 0's
The whole point of the analogy and explanation using simple language was so the average pilot who this video is for, can understand the basic concepts of. That being said, Frsky (Free Sky) sends a digital signal, it doesn't send analog signals, thus it is sending 1's and 0's using Amplitude Shift Keying.
Update System between ExpressLRS and Crossfire
You are mainly referring to the OTA update from the Transmitter to the Receiver, I admit, that's cool; however if you want to run the latest version of Crossfire, you have to update your Transmitter. How you update your Transmitter is, you guessed it, the same as flashing an ExpressLRS transmitter. You have to connect your TX to Agent M, then after that's updated, you have to then update each of your receivers. So objectively, the same difficulty.
Frsky - "Welcome to Taranis"
www.frsky-rc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Manual/Quickstart%20Guide%20for%20FrSky%20Taranis%20with%20OpenTX.pdf
@@DarrenAllatt u don't have to update your receivers in xfire, it just does it (with your eyes closed). Yes I use all five protocols (Flysky,R9M, FRsky, xfire, elrs) Flysky (sorry your accent may for FR sky or freesky) sounded like flysky) and as far as range and penetration yes xfire is better. I have the 1w Beta FPV module in my T16 and will do some range testing to get a mile away around the other side of a hill (Flysky 2.4 no prob). But if your looking for a good lightweight receiver/antenna combo can't beat elrs. One of my biggest frustration was spending 7 hours trying to get a betafpv superd diversity to update via usb, it would never get started with transfer. Turns out that the 2 reviver chips pulled too much power for the usb to function, wound using battery and wifi'd it. what a mess, xfire would have did it all for me. U gotta love this stuff.
@@fpvkabo well, your experience with the betafpv super d, that’s an issue with open source stuff because some manufacturers have quality issues, betafpv is known for it. While crossfire, tbs and only tbs make it.
To update your crossfire receivers, you need to update your TX first, then when they connect you have to update them. Crossfire can do that because there is only 1 firmware target, while ELRS every rx has a different target. So not magic, benefit of closed source.
My crossfire just says updating receiver automatically, I believe there is enough flash in the xfire TX to store the itty bitty different receivers flash, all I need to do is update 1 thing, and the rest of receivers are updated as u connect. Neither of the superd's were deflective just drew too much power, got 2 both did the same, but updated when battery was plugged in and did a wireless update. Having 1 manufacture (if they insist on quality) is better for the consumer. So many manufactures of elrs introduce so many different kinds of problems, not just defects, but different implementations on led behavior and binding differences just to name a few. Different manufactures read the specifications and interpret them differently leading to pain in the arse for the customer.
You had my attention until you said Aliexpress.
you know, you can skip that section Timmy
Great description, awful editing