Why Does This Keep Happening? | Pokemon Unite
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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Honestly it’s so hard climbing every season with the amount of bad teammates, constant afk’s and back caps
Dude like fr. I swear getting to masters was a struggle man. Don’t even get me started on getting enough elo to play draft that’s even more of a struggle in Solo Q
REAL THOUGH
Pokemon Unite is the only moba I've played that has an awful playerbase. For how long Unite is, you'd expect people to play decent or at least know how to play the game (doing objectives, regularly doing jungle, breaking goals), but no, there're so many new players who quite literally don't know what they're doing and not a lot of old players who do.
This new season has been awful.
yeah you have to go carry picks it’s hard to solo with a support for example
I have a few theories, and I think a combination of all of them are true.
1) When a Pokémon is buffed, players who are "in the know" (and tend to play better) switch to the buffed Pokémon. When a Pokémon gets nerfed, players who aren't "in the know" continue to play it, while more skilled players drop the Pokémon for something more effective.
When Charizard was awful, most Charizard players I saw had awful macro. Same for Zeraora before the rework, and Gengar right now. Sure, there were good players too, but MOST of the people playing these weaker Pokémon, from selection screen to in-match, didn't seem to know what they were doing.
I'd also like to point out that Pokémon with a greater "cool factor" (Charizard, Gengar, Zeraora) are likely more suspectable to unskilled and out-of-the-loop players choosing them, playing their favorite Pokémon regardless of their ability to use it properly. This is probably why Dodrio has consistently better win-rates than Zoroark.
2) This is probably much more obvious, but people get used to a Pokémon's pre-patch capabilities and limits. When a Pokémon gets nerfed, players take risk they could handle before but can't handle now. When a Pokémon gets buffed opposing players will more readily challenge it, not realizing what it's now cabable of.
3. Most straightforwardly, strong Pokémon preform better and week Pokémon preform worse.
Just one of these factors alone won't account for the wild swings in win-rate, but all three combined might explain it. I'm curious to hear people's takes on these theories, especially the first one.
yeah all possible
Wow really well said dude I didn’t even think of the first one even though I thought of kids playing their favorite mon blindly.
@@flakyfan1496 Might be part of his first fact (especially the cool factor of their Pokemon, or playing their favourite).
Eh... strong Pokemon, weak Pokemon. It's merely the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites...
(Totally not a quote hidden anywhere in Pokemon history)
@@flakyfan1496 And Ceruledge especially. After it became available for coins, I noticed that average skill level of Ceruledge players in my games nose dived off a cliff. Ceruledge has not only a "cool factor", but also an "edgelord factor", making simultaneously more attractive to younger and perhaps less self-aware players, and less attractive to older and perhaps more self-aware players.
As a charizard main I agree I have gotten games where someone will pick zard before I can and they have no idea how to play the character
I think some people don’t really know how to play and just play the broken stuff because it gets them wins. However, after the nerfs they just abandon it or keep it but lose everything.
Yeah agreed. As along time league player I know how even just a small change to one ability can turn someone from 100 to 0 on a character. Of course we see the opposite as well or people who aren’t affected, but that doesn’t change the facts and if you then look at those players who find consistent success it’s because they know the character inside and out
Point being, even the smallest change can change a character for someone.
@@flakyfan1496i totally agree
@@flakyfan1496yeah agreed
Thats the case in almost every competetiv game, people play the meta and if its broken enough they get carried by it.
Yup. People are bad at the game, but even worse, the game purposely puts the worst players on your team when youre good, which is why the game will die.
Literally. I win one ranked match and then the next two that follow are almost always guaranteed losses. Then there's people who purposefully don't score which just makes me want to scream
@@jans.g6033 I havent really been playing. Last season was the first season in like 2+ years that I havent gotten the season sticker. I got to about 1550+ with a 62.5% wr and like 400 games, when I usually play around 1-2k a season, and I just gave up because Id play for 2-3 hours and make no progress because Id win 5 games in a row and then lose the next 2-3 and end up at the same point range. Its incredibly annoying. I get games where 3-4 of my teammates are sub 50% wr. No competitive game should EVER have a matchmaking system that does that.
Winning in rank doesn’t feel fun any more because I know the other only lost because they had that one backpacking defender
Honestly feels like my skills have gotten worse this year for some reason.
@@ToBadNoSad So true, that and the better RNG with either ray or a comfey/zoroark duo.
The macro is 100% the issue. People can’t win because they play Pokémon “I’m going to jump into this fight alone” instead of Pokémon Unite. The players with 40% win rate are all or nothing, they’re either diving goals while two levels down or farming while multiple objectives are up. They’re mages playing at melee range, or tanks hiding behind the mages before they engage. People have little concept of where they should be on the map or within a fight, and the game gives them no guidance.
Tbh all of the 40% winrate players are got carried.. like they dont win if doesnt got carried...
Poor players
@BeLite845 I once had a trio who all had a 30% win rate that season and it was true hell...
@@darkling5780 i cant imagine how bad it is.. even one 40% wr player can destroy the game..
Honestly though, it's easy to hate on lower WR players, but often I find matches where the ally with 49% WR chooses a Pokémon to balance the team, turns up to objectives and pushes until the end, while the 54% WR ally is playing Mewtwo, not turning up to objectives and spamming "Thanks!" every time they get KOed. Of course, there are those with more extreme WRs, and it counts for something, but in general, I don't think it's a good indicator of how well a player plays in a match. Just a different take to consider.
@_freebirdnerd I will not say I hate all low wr player but CMON why did it have to be a TRIO with all low win rate... whereas the opponent trio were 50%-55%. That was the most brutal and unfair match I ever been in
Dude I hate the matchmaking in this game, dude my teammates suck SO much, like I keep losing.
Maybe u need take a break for a while when u had rage quite for ur good sake my bro
So true
It depends on the daytime you are playing if you keep getting bad teammates with negative winrate its better to stop playing instead to try to win an impossible game.
@@Bingchilling691if they take a pause, they’ll constantly play against bots
I feel like it when something is really strong people start playing the mons in a way where they are getting away with things that no other mons, so when the mon does receive a nerf they carry on playing it the same way and get punished for doing so.
I will always be grateful I learned to play on Leafeon post-nerf. It's taught me positioning, map awareness, and objective timing all at once. Cannot imagine starting on a broken EX mon and learning a thing
@@ATXnomad698I started on zacian and still l learned
I definitely sucked before watching your videos, like a 40% win rate. Now I’m at like a 55% from your videos learning about the “Macro” of the game. Thanks for that. And I definite agree. People overreact to the smallest things. It’s kinda stupid, but I will say this mega is super flatlined to the past. Thanks for your thoughts!
Lmao Pokémon unite is not hard to grasp.
@@ASMRbyJIOto you.
@@ASMRbyJIO It isn't, but a lot of people started MOBAs with this game (me included). So when we say that teaching people how to play is necessary, we mean it, we experienced it.
Imagine putting someone into a game and only teaching them the bare minimum (that's Unite), they WILL perform badly because of it unless they've played other MOBAs before.
@@MusicCometyep, this was Baby's First MOBA for me, and for most of my friends who play too
@@ASMRbyJIOYeah, it's people like you who are the problem. We're not all perfect specimens, and you shouldn't expect everyone to be. If feeling superior to others is what makes you laugh, you ought to question why that is. 🙄
I completely agree with you, the biggest part of the playerbase is just straight up bad.
Best example for this right now is charizard, the Unite was insanely overbuffed and the pickrate blew up with it by 36%(!!!) in just one week.
Most of the people pick broken mons so they don't get punished for bad decisions they make in a match and so they think they are "good" at the game.
It really started to show when Mewtwo got released and it will keep going until things like the horrible matchmaking and the very questionable system for MVP are fixed.
Also there should definetly be some guides for items so we lower the chances of seeing for example another special attacker with attack weight or something like that.
Yeah totally agreed
Does anyone even care about the mvp?
I never even notice it, I just spam the 4 nexts you need to press to get to next game
@@47slograin alternative ways... Like more scoring, hiding and taking last hit of objectives, coming out at the last moment to steal KOs etc... All these leads to "I am not bad bc I got the MVP🤡"
@@Hey_i_am_A-D Exactly, couldn't have said it better!
The game is at fault for releasing mewtwo and zacian and allowing players to think they are good at the game.
I just wanna see a meta where nothing is obscenely broken in this game and see how much the player base straight up panics when they can't play something broken
I feel like we’ve had a lot of that recently
@@flakyfan1496 Unite has gotten close to it lately, but there are still incredibly broken mechanics that will keep them afloat
Yeah I agree but there is a distinction there which means it’s harder to find for general players from what I can tell. I just think back to all the other patches and how there’s been less and less that catches me off guard
that was literally post 2023 worlds but yall complained about buzzwole
Impossible because you’re going to need every single pokemon nerfed altogether. Otherwise only said pokemon in the patch notes will get people gaslit into thinking those pokemon are now back. Which, is the case for every pokemon post patch as explained in the video.
I literally just got off the game after playing for five hours straight just to earn ONE STAR. It was literally a one step forward two steps back as a SoloQ f2p, just praying I don't lose a star with every loss lmao
Legit this. I am solo queue, 7 times master, every season gets harder and harder to climb. This morning I get 3 losses in a row because my "team" just runs around failing to even farm, dies pushing Regieleki right before Ray, or straight up goes afk.
@@Cresenta just 3 loses? I don't understand why I get 6 and 7 lose streaks. Never happened to me in any other game except unite
Me playing 12 games and making zero progress 💀
Yeah this is why we have to play strong pokemon that can overcome the macro of both the early game mid game and late game
Bro I was like 1570 just trying to get 1600 not even that high two weeks before the season ended. Nothing but trash teammates the whole rest of the season ended up at like 1390
True, I think that they would overextend themselves because the Pokemon would handle it before the nerfs, and it’s hard to think about that.
I keep reading about on the one hand people that complain about their teammates always being bad and on the other hand people that say that if you have a winrate below 50 % you are the problem. Let me tell you: it is not that easy. There are highly important factors that matter such as 1) which roles do you usually play (Supports vs. Attacker) 2) when do you play (noon, evenings, nights), in wich country do you play (playerbases differ esp. relative to their size), how much do you play? (Just 4 or 5 games per day or 50 and more). My winrate for example highly fluctuates. Most of the time it is easy to get to Masters with a 60% winrate. Once you get to 1500 however it gets waay harder because the game pairs you with low skill players more often. Last season I started to lose a lot of games starting at 1500 and this time I couldnt stop myself from playing. I played till 4am in the morning and guess what, the playerbase at 4am is especially what? Small - which increases the likelihood of high skill differences. It became a death trap for me. This season everything is alright again (for now). I know that if i stick to max 5 games per day in the early evenings I will probably be able to get to 1700 with a 53% WR. What I wanted to say with all of this: WR is one aspect of telling if someone is good or not but its neither the only one nor the most important in my opinion.
Yeah. That “how much you play” is a big one, because winrate is an average, you need a statistically significant sample size to get an accurate winrate. (Oh my god my Mr mime is a 100% winrate last season. I played 3 games on it.)
So I had a teammate with 10k ranked games and 47% wr, what does that say about him?
@@XiaoWolfy91 most likely the player is not that good (i guess you know the explanation) but imo what matters most is how they actually played. (e.g. My ranked winrate is at 49,7 with 11 k matches. I am a defender main. My winrate for ranked this is season is 59,7 % (144 games so far, soon hitting the 1600 mark), so what does that say about me? I'd say - starting as a moba noob I simply got better, but I still tilt once in a while and play through the night which can drag the WR down quite fast). Its just not always clear how much the WR is able to tell: I come across players that played well but still got a 49 % WR and vice versa.
Every time I play ranked I can not even get above ultra, just based on other players abilities. That's why I always play standard/casual. It's just crazy😭🤬😒😤🤨
0:02 no way, really?!
In Pokemon unite their is nothing like BALANCED,you either have BUFFED Pokemon or NERFED Pokemon
Yup, people struggle in this game. I don't think any amount of buffs or nerfs will fix that.
Here for that moustache
Here for his partner, Chair!
You answered your own question, Cowboy. Most players don't have a good understanding of macro. Busted pokemon can somewhat overcome this deficiency, which is why you're seeing the swingy win rates.
The reason I think macro is the culprit is simple: I've been playing for a year, regularly reach Master and I myself still don't feel like I have a good grasp on proper macro. Lots of streamers focus on presenting builds and strats for individual pokemon, largely because they change somewhat regularly with patches. Few streamers teach proper macro (because compared to builds and strats, it's complicated and difficult to teach, sometimes) and the game does nothing to teach it. The MVP system sometimes even rewards bad macro.
So, Cowboy, do you want to belly up to the bar and serve up a round of ice cold macro lessons? The community would be better for it if you did.
Yee-haw, my friend.
This 100%. I’m a new player as of the last 2 seasons and there is almost no content on how to macro.
THe amount of platers going to back cap when ray spawns, just go try to score on a tier 2 and die to a useless fight just before ray spawns, try to go 2 mid because they both want to go there and refuse to change and many others are incredibly high, sad thing is this in not a low rank behavior, you see this things in masters, the only thing I have yet to see in masters is atrocious items (like gardevoir with leftovers and focus band)
honestly the macro isn't even really that complex which is the crazy part. Just showing up to objectives and not wasting your unite will cover a good chunk of it.
I learned the macro in the first two weeks of the game back in season 1, and this is my first moba. Sure I did watch some good content which helped me, but critical thinking isn't something that can be learned.
Unite Climbing is a GREAT channel for learning good macro!
Teammates make a huge difference, and if a Pokémon isn’t insanely broken, then it becomes difficult to carry these awful teammates, and thus the winrate goes down
Like for me personally, normally when there’s a Pokémon that I play a lot, such as my top 4 most played Pokémon, they have over 60% win rates each, but with Ceruledge even right now, my fifth most played with around 200 battles, I still struggle to get past a 52% winrate
(Username in game is Ruinatiøn)
100% agree with you. Other players in this game are just something else, I normally play duo with a friend I made so I’m not trying to solo carry a game but there’s not a lot we can do when the other 3 players push at 2:30 and die turning Ray into a 2v5. This exact scenario has happened too many times this week, I will get to masters again but it’s just painfully slow due sometimes
Very true
Correct. I got to 1600 in two days spamming ceruledge with an 80% winrate and feel no guilt about it. I'm already playing a 1v5, at least let me pick something that can handle it.
@@piemonsterart4220i swear every moronic teammate in the world thinks 2:30 is the best time to solo push a tier 2 goal despite my pings "avoid fighting and focus on leveling up" and retreat"
it's like getting to the point where i have to take a break from playing every time i finish a match
If you're watching this video thinking 'My teammates always troll; it's not me', but have a ranked winrate less than 50%. It is you. You are the bad player. You statistically lose more than you win. The truth hurts, but someone has to say it.
As someone who keeps getting teammates that run.... Wherever, and triple down on jungle... It is and isn't. It really is game dependent. Now if you're in comms or a 5 stack and have less than 50 you are 100% correct. You won't always win of course but you should be able to at least get close to half when you communicate where you're moving and whatnot.
@@06twar Hmm well said
Also, I don't think enough is being said about the fact that the game actively teaches bad habits. I lost a couple of matches and was queued into a bot match the other day; I usually restart until I get humans, but I decided just to go for it. And the ally bots were doing some weird things: only breaking goals with exact amounts, backcapping at 2:10, immediately stopping ehatever they were doing and walking to Regieleki whenever it spawned - even if they were at the bottom of the map or in the middle of scoring! If newer players or those on losing streaks are being fed this kind of team behaviour, it's no wonder they don't realise their decisions are bad!
I think some of this can be explained by the behavior of the top performing players. They are the kind of people who actually check patch notes and adjust their mon picks around them to make the most meta choices. So when something gets a nerf, even if it’s minor, top players stop picking it and when something is buffed top players increase their pick rate on those mons. So the worse performing players aren’t following patch notes and are left playing the nerfed mons, disproportionately affecting the win rates because of how the best players adjust to patches…….if that makes sense lol
I think the reason for this is that people pick up this game to play it like a pokemon battle game and not a MOBA. So players that understand MOBA pick the OP Mon to compensate/carry to make up for those teammates who don't grasp how to play the game.
Thanks for showing the winrate of mewtwo x to confirm that it's not always the case that a tiny nerf makes a pokémon's winrate drop by like 6%
The problem is simple, there are actual kids playing this game, and there never gonna be on the same level as any of us who know what to pick and choose who know how to play a defender or supporter or know when to pick a carry, the problem is there not gonna care nor will they ever care, they just wanna play whats brocken or some starter if not they forfeit or they throw a tantrum you see it all the time
Generally I find people get KOed once or twice before the first objective and throw a tantrum; they spam "Thanks!", start farming during team fights and try to score a lot so they can post on Reddit how they are not the problem because they were MVP (even though I did more damage as a Slowbro or Eldegoss). They just expect to pick a powerful Attacker, Speedster or All Rounder, be invincible and dominate every match. 🙄
I think they should either remove bots in this game or significantly reduce their appearances because they encourage people to make dumb plays
Another thing is that a singular Pokémon’s nerfs of buffs doesn’t happen in isolation. Usually a patch adjust multiple pokemon. A minor nerf to one pokemon can be amplified by buffs to others (especially if those others are hard counters and/or results in certain pokes getting played more overall). Sure sometimes people may internalize a change - maybe.
But more so I think it’s that the devs don’t fully understand how much a change can be amplified by shifts in other pokemon and by extension, shifts in pokemon pick rates or team compositions based on those changes.
Sometimes minor nerfs or buffs to a single pokemon end up totally trashing a champ or catapulting a champ when taken in combo with the other rolled out changes (or the cumulative changes that just happened to cross a threshold in one pokemon or among several).
What this may mean is that changes should maybe be less of “let’s hit this one with a nerf bat and these with big buffs to adjust big discrepancies”. And more - let’s do smaller incremental changes (which may not seem big on paper) but could still be amplified given the other small changes. Maybe multiple 2-3% changes instead of - 10-15% changes
People getting higher win rate after Ceruledge buffs.
And here me dropping my Ceruledge Win rate from 60% to 54% after buffs 😅
Its the nintendo player base. Whenever theres a team based competetive nintendo game, this skill issue always comes into question. Ive played competetive splatoon for about 7 or so years and its the same there. At the highest level, its fun and engaging because each player understands how to get value out of different situations but in regular solo queue, its Hell.
I chose to play as the nerfed no retreat iron head failinks and did actually good!So many people have skill issue.
Yeah agreed this is just skill issue.
What did u expect from a game that designed to become a kids game?
@Bingchilling691 the same could be said about alot of nintendo games. But adult still play it regardless.
@@Bingchilling691 I swear the kind of teammates I get sometimes makes me wish they were actually kids, so I could overlook their mistakes or something. Even worse is, even some kids can play the game better than those teammates.
@CM_684 exactly. Is isnt just a kid problem. It really is a skill issue.
Dude it is been the worse struggle this season so far. Teammates are more horrible than ever before. Everyone wants to be an attacker and not work together. Leaving people in lanes by themselves. Using Pokemon they obviously don't know how to use. No one wants to learn how to use multiple roles that makes their own experience better. If they can't use a specific Pokemon then they are near useless in game. I once went on a 16 game losing streak about 2-3 seasons ago because of the horrible matchmaking and having been at a disadvantage due to poor teammates from the get go.
There have been games more lately where I have to really dig deep and carry with almost every single time I play. Having to do 100k plus damage even with my eldegoss having 25 KO's or my aragonite having 22 KO's. If I'm not stacking right away with my new eldegoss build we have nearly lost every time. It's becoming ridiculous.
They have to fix this matchmaking otherwise I don't see myself playing much towards the end of the year.
I distinctly remember going from the Absol meta into the Glaceon release. Absol was Giga busted, must pick etc etc. but the match quality I was getting was fantastic, teammates were rotating, active but cautious to not overextend. Then the first anniversary event happened and my match quality dropped off a cliff and has just been abysmal ever since. I don’t know what happened or why, but hot damn has it been a rough 2 years
There's sometimes i'll go on a 3,4,5 loss streak bc i "can't stop playing until i get a win" or "i need this" where i start thinking its my fault. Then i'll MVP 3 games in a row from the right most character select and say "then why am i carrying as the lowest win-rate on my team?"
I thought I was tweaking when I was struggling getting from Ultra to Master on my 1st account, and Veteran to Ultra on my 2nd account. The win-lose-win-lose cycle is crazy. Glad it’s not just me lmao
It is sad when a horrible teammate single handedly loses the game for you.
I think you are spot on.
Here is my analogy:
Let’s say you need a personal score of 16 to win…
If a player has 8 in skill… like yourself. You can win easy with a busted Pokémon who is 10 (meta). And you will do fine with a Pokémon that is nerved (6 on the meta scale).
In solo queue, we have people hogging the rank 10 Pokemon but go AFK, so the contribution is 10+0 = 10.
Adding each personal score up and you get a team score.
Similar to your micro vs macro analogy, but that’s why solo queue is so hard because a normal team would struggle to get a 65 even though for those who try output at 17 or 18 out of 20.
That's a little depressing tbh.. I've always encouraged using your fav pokemon that you like, but obviously there are players that only care about numbers and winning.
Curious if it has something to do with intangibles such as the discount shop meaning there were more new players trying the pokemon so the win rate drops
I had this talk with people a few days ago. Pokemon Unite is baby's first moba marketed as this easy game that anyone can pick up and play and it's true. Little to no depth to the game and not much to really think about so players that have 0 moba/team experience can just do and thats what most of the player base consists of, players that just DO. And the game supports it with little to no punishment especially since they changed how rankings worked so no matter how bad someone does, they'll never drop below that rank and hell there are ways to make sure you don't lose ranked points before masters. So eventually these players will hit masters and get high ratings just by consistently playing the game, not by learning from their mistakes or what better players are doing. Since I came back to the game I've had people that played 10k plus games do consistently worse than people that had 500-2k worth of games and that really speaks to the over all skill level of the game and it's been a long standing issue for even years now. Unfortunately it's consistently over quality in this game and the busted pokemon just add to the issue
A lot of players are choosing to give up after a certain point in the match. it could be 5:00, 1:45 or even right away if the player throwing dislikes you from previous matches where you were on opposing teams. It is this bad, and until reports are taken seriously and the surrender button is removed, it will sadly continue
I left Unite years ago and back then i still felt the playerbase had some major macro issues. Glad to hear some things haven't changed
similar to what @A-lik said, but my thoughts:
1. meta players will always swap to the hot commodity, leaving nerfed mons only for players that are not meta chasers and those players are likely to be worse
2. when the population reduces the bad builds (i.e. bad players) suddenly weight a lot more. a good example is Machamp, which is one of the worst WR right now, but both cross chop builds are still above 50% WR, and good players will easily keep it much higher.
3. most new releases will have a learning curve. the bigger the curve, the worst the performance on initial release. if they use that data to buff/nerf there will be a tendency to always buff new releases even if they are released at an objectively "balanced" performance. imagine for example that mew was released at the current state (3 or 4 nerfs since initial release). it would likely be buffed before eventually being nerfed back to the current state as most players would underperform and quickly abandon it.
Psychologie student here: So the reason this happens is due to statistics. There are different kind of people, one kind of these people are the "winners" or "tryhards". These guys want to win at all costs and grind it out. They dont handycap themselves and thus only pick Pokemon that are strong. Their performance is better than the ones of average players. When now a strong Pokemon like Buzzwole gets nerfed it might lose its "most op Pokemon" status. Thus these "winners" move on to another Pokemon, which is now declared as the strongest. This leads to a harsher reduction of Buzzwoles winrate, than the nerf itselve warranted and a higher increase of winrates for the recently buffed Pokemon. Winrate is not representing 100% the effectiveness of a Pokemon, but it also represents who is playing Pokemon, this can lead to missinterpretations of winrate increases and reductions.
I think most people lack critical thinking and reading skills. Timi nerfs/buffs a specific thing about a Pokemon with the best of intentions (the road to hell is paved with good intentions) but 90% of the player base sees only buff or nerf and that has a clear effect on the game as you've shown. They don't understand what the nerf/buff is apart from the fact that the Pokemon got nerfed or buffed. This needs to be a real wake up call for the players honestly, we cry out for a balanced game and then create a situation so skewed that people only win with broken Pokemon.
I was shocked that blastoise's winrate was the lowest cause I've been doing pretty good with him and setting up kills for my teammates
Same saved my teamm8 from a gank of 3ppl and turned it to a 2-0
Yeah, there’s WAY worse mons than Blastoise atm.
Me and my duo were having this exact conversation the other day about unite and yugioh.
Cracked mindset ,,, as soon as a mon gets nerfed people Starts thinking it's not so op now, it's very bad now so it effect the plays
💙❤️💙
They just won't think about how to actually make plays with the thing as it is now
I like to mention that because it's an anniversary many new players are joining who don't know how to play the game as well
Jake, I think the community would benefit from content on macro decisions. I think I've asked in a previous video for you to explain your choices 'inside Pokemon Unite' 😅.
Similar to Unite Climbing channel. Great content creator. Break down some key moments in a game, like a sports pundit. Chris Heroes would be great at this too, he needs content ideas.
Some of the problem are just allies aren't playing to win, they just play and do whatever they want.
I still see like 20% of players who have SP Atk items on atk pokemon and vice versa.
You also get people fighting for mid and whatnot.
It's not just a balance problem it's just a community problem.
You pick jungle first but they want to play whatever they want and they steal your jungle.
EVEN when they pick a lane they'll come partial way to steal your farm in the beginning and go back to lane.
It's so irritating having an ally steal my farm and head to lane, lose and thing ping me all game because somehow they can't understand that the farm they just stole i needed in order to be able to help them.
Sometimes i gotta wing it and try to backdoor score 30s into the game, and just poke enemies and run away and try to secure my farm, again. But if the enemy team is good and esp coordinated (mics or not just play together) it doesn't matter.
Then half of the matches are 2-3 attackers / all rounders / speedsters with 0 defenders and supports.
A lot of the win rates aren't right.
Sure people will say (Get to masters) I'm specifically talking about Masters Games... You don't get a full lobby of masters even when I was 1700 one season. It doesn't matter. If everyone is bad then even master rank players will be bad.
There’s a similar feeling in smite as well with buffs and nerfs leading to astronomical win rate changes.
In my opinion pokemon that get nerfed lose so much win rate largely because players get used to their damage, cooldowns, healing, cc durations,etc and still play them like nothing changed and lose fights because they play like the have things that aren’t there anymore
And for buffs, whenever you see a Pokémon you enjoy gets buffed, all of the players that were good with them last time they were good come back to try them again leading to a win rate spike.
Can’t say for certain this is the reasoning in unite but definitely isn’t unheard of in mobas
I haven't played Tyranitar in a hot minute after it got the original sand tomb buff, but I am a huge ancient power Tyranitar believer. It's a fun build that's really beneficial into CC.
Cris and Krashy were talking about this years ago, Unite does nothing to teach players what are good and bad plays. Everyone gets rewarded, people who shouldn't be in Veteran are somehow in Masters because the slope is angled up -- play for long enough and you'll reach Masters. Even with a negative winrate.
People are encouraged to play stupidly, because at the end of the match they get given the MVP badge despite doing nothing productive for their team, making them think they were the best player and it must be the rest of the team holding them back.
And after screaming into the void about this issue for 3 years, most of us have just given up. The good players are leaving, the bad players are rising the ranks and there's no incentive to get good because most players don't even understand what "good" is anymore.
I had a Mewtwo spamming Thanks at me for helping him KO some wild mons... as an EXP Share Clefable. He's in masters AND DOESN'T KNOW HOW EXP SHARE WORKS!!
A good matchmaking system actually would fix a lot of this issue.
Bad players would get stuck in lower ranks and would have to look up information to improve, but as it stands now good players get punished by being matched with the bottom of the barrel. Like the fact that someone like CrisHeroes gets constantly matched with negative wr players that barely have 300-500 games is just absurd.
The biggest thing that I have run into is items and honestly emblems. There is too much fear of missing out in the game that puts new players or in frequent players at a disadvantage. The grind for these items should not exist. All of them should be given at the start. I have so many games ranked and nonranked where people dont have a full set of items. Most are just leftovers and that is it. This leads to most of the time these players being a liability rather than a teammate.
The next issue I see is people not knowing how to play. Before the game starts you tend to be able to spot people because they dont have items on their pokemon. Then there are people who just cant play their pokemon well. Being bad is fine but why are they appearing on my team so high up in ranked? As soon as I see them I know the game is lost. Then as you have mentioned people dont know how to macro. I would also argue that people struggle with micro too. These factors all add up to why some matches are so miserable to play.
No matter if a pokemon is nerfed or buffed unless you are given with a decent teammate to win or trash team to complete lose. Matchmaking is worst in pokemon unite . As a solo player it is complete nightmare for me to go up against opponents with a team
You're going to over think this until you don't want to play anymore, IE Krashy. This is pokemon unite, it won't change
I definitely feel like the macro decision making hurts a lot of teams. People aren't showing up to objectives as they spawn, they're using their unite after the 2:30 mark, back capping, etc. I get that Unite is a very trimmed down version of most MOBAs but you still can't autopilot. The decision making absolutely matters for the match.
It's definitely hard to push rank when you have players who don't know how to work as a team or use their Pokémon's strength to their advantage. This time I've seen more bad players this season. I been seeing too many afks or early surrenders and it's annoying. It's really hard to carry if the team isn't doing what they need to do.
There is the possibility that the characters are being played by people who actually follow the data and information, and when they get nerfed, what you are left with are the people who don’t follow the data and information and are therefore less able to fully utilise the money compared to the more informed players
Part of it is that near the start of the season, top players(that they get their results from) get a lot of bot matches, you can tell because X attack(the item Tyranitar bots use) with a 57% use rate, with a *29%* winrate, so a lot of the Pokemon bots play tend to have super low winrates at the start of the seasons
Lacking a proper tutorial might also be a reason why many players who don't consume content have a low macro. Unite's tutorial only teaches them basic/surface level of things, something like "always try to score when you can, scoring is the key to victory" or "there is an objective at the top and bottom, you should try to get it" something like that. And while I do realize that teaching them everything for every situation is just straight impossible but they could at least try to update their tutorial. Last time I saw it they're still using Remoat Stadium for it, it needs an update.
I can take my time to only run rank matches with my tournament teammates and hit 1600 with 55-60% win rate in a season. That means not playing when i only have 20-30m to game. I'm at the point where if i solo or duo i am guaranteed to have multiple passive teammates on my side. I dont mind playing with less experienced teammates but it does put a dent in the win %.
I think -- with no actual data to back this up -- that there are a large number of people with good macro-play who are always hyper-fixated on finding a competitive edge, and thus flock to any 'mon that's been demonstrated to be overpowered in some way. Thus, when a 'mon is overtuned, we see super high win-rates because of all the good players who prioritize using optimal strategies.
Then, by that same token, when a 'mon gets nerfed, those particular kinds of players are quick to shift to other things. Thus, the people who had some of the best macro-play no longer play those 'mons as much, leaving the players with not-so-great macro-play over-represented in that 'mon's win rate.
So... I bet, if these updates were somehow totally silent, we wouldn't actually see such a change in winrates across the board, simply because that crowd of skilled players wouldn't shift their picks as much and would only win _marginally_ less, as a reflection of the marginal balance changes.
I'm not saying I think we should stop seeing updates, just to be clear. I'm just saying that I think a major factor is the _perception of the nerfed 'mons,_ in the eyes of the kinds of players who tend to have good macro-play.
In other words... I think the people who could still win even with the nerfs are moving on to other things in response to the nerfs, "leaving behind" only players who weren't doing a lot of winning even pre-nerf. (And the scant handful of crackrd players that each 'mon has who are hyper-dedicated and win with that 'mon with or without nerfs just because they love playing it. Most of us have one or two that we keep going back to regardless of how well it's doing in the meta, lol)
Man I thought the same thing when the game first came out. Honestly I stopped playing a few months in initial release because I got sick of carrying the whole game just to have someone on the other team last hit Zapados and sweep the rest of the game with double points and no charge up. It felt like the game didn’t reward you for doing well at all. I am now re-familiarizing myself with the game and the Pokémon, and am enjoying it, but I’m worried I’ll have another drop off from some mechanic that removes the skill and rewards worse players
The thing is that even with nerfs, Sand Tomb/Stone Edge is still the best build for Tyranitar compared to Dark Pulse/Ancient Power. I can say the same for Falinks where Iron Head/No Retreat still feels the same even though the damage decrease is felt. The player base thought that these nerfs made it unplayable. I played Tyranitar one time with Stone Edge and Sand Tomb and it was just as strong as when it was nerfed, just doesn’t feel like an auto win button anymore. This is, in extension, the majority of the player base’s fault and also the epitome of skill issues that can only be solved if the players are good which unfortunately the majority are not. As for Ceruledge, I only expected Bitter Blade and Flame Charge buffs. Not the buffs to his entire kit. Now he is definitely like really a bit too strong.
Ive been on a huge ranked losing streak due to me being the only person knowing basic rotation. I know it doesnt matter on the pokemon i use cause no matter what im always in a 5v1 because im the only one trying to get in a team fight while thinking my team is right behind me. Even if we have all the levels i would still see them farming. And the fact that im in ultra 3 while i have friends climb up and already get into masters i feel like the matchmaking is unfair to people like me, do well one game then get screwed over
i think the drop in winrate is natural after a nerf. people are used to killing certain pokemon after a certain move, and all of a sudden they dont. they are used to recasting a spell after a certain cooldown, and all of a sudden they cannot. all of this breaks their tech with said mon and they lose a bit. i don't think 10% is that massive honestly, especially if it went from like 55 to 45. i expect there to be another rise in the upcoming weeks once things settle
I stopped playing attacker when I noticed the defenders waiting for me to go in first and tank for them.
Better players choosing the strong pokemon for sure. Micro/macro play is too important. Play your pokemon strengths, take objectives to win, unless you need to evolve join the teamfight. Ex: Masters Tyranitar. The pokemon has high endurance with a dangerous offensive kit in Sand Tomb / Stone edge. Focus band to pad endurance, muscle band for offensive power, and Razor claw to take advantage of the kits 5 time proc (2 Sand tomb / 3 Stone Edge). Potion again for endurance. Rush 9 and send it with the rock monster
I think partly it’s because good players like “op” characters because we have to carry to make up for our bad teammates so when a pokemon gets nerfed we try to find the next broken thing. And once the “good” players stop using a pokemon then only “bad” players are using the nerfed pokemon and the win rate drops like a rock
I think the issue is that vast majority of the playerbase are casual players that log thinking this is a single player game and don't care about getting better for the good of the team they get matched with. It's my first moba and the only competitive game i played before is csgo and people there tried to play accordingly to what was the best chance at winning, i see that as the main difference. Dedicated players will look for the best champs they can play to win their matches wether it's something overtuned or not and their wr won't change that much after a balance patch. I'm a good Goodra player and even tho it's the "worst defender", it's the best tank I can play and my winrate with it has always been contrary to the statistics.
Swings to me are players that look for the broken thing to play some isometric action game and leave pokemon in the hands of the ones that pick mindlessly and not surprisingly can't play very well. How can Surf/Pump+Eject have a 44%wr with a combo that stuns for 2.2 seconds, has that much knockback and a unite move that stuns for another 1.5 seconds over an insane area? I have no clue and can only guess they don't play to setup kills for their team / team doesn't capitalise on that window / they haven't learned to combo.
The playerbase never gets better and idk how that can change without a massive rank system change, putting worse players in buckets where they can get better. I don't want to tackle trolls as it's pointless to talk about without a permaban system in play.
I used to play much more but I'm so tired of this I just log for daily matches and wait some weeks to climb to 1600 with my usual 60%wr to avoid ultra solos and veteran duos/trios.
I’m a glaceon player and it’s sort of a shame to see its win rate drop since I can carry games with Glaceon well without any issue. As of right now I have a 69% win rate with Glaceon even if it has gotten nerfed. Most if not all my games I can carry when I play a speedster or an attacker that goes to jungle.
It sucks to see win rates drop because of players not knowing what they’re doing, it feels embarrassing to me considering that I think that win rates can improve if players did actually listen and pay attention for objectives along with just showing up for big fights.
Most of the drop can be explained that winning players move on to whatever is stronger after a nerf. The drop in winrate comes from a double whammy: the character does worse because it is worse, but also the character loses its best players. Especially in a game like Unite, where 99% of the players fall into the category of "Worse than Silvers in LoL," losing any actual good players is HUGE.
Ironically, the conclusion is the same: people really suck at Unite lmao
Part of the problem is where/how your getting statistics. Uniteapi is only showing you the top 10,000 ranked players. As the pick rate goes down the amount each loss affects the w/l rate goes up.
Thank you for saying this Spragels. I really think it's a skill issue of the player base and also every time a Pokémon gets nerfed it is dropped like a sack of hot potatoes and when one is buffed everyone plays it. Truly very sad. For example, many players abused Mewtwo to win and it was disgusting. I agree with you about the bad decision making in a match because I see it again and again and these players get away with it so they continue to play like that. For example, a Zeraora backcapping when a huge team fight is going on. This kind of play is not punished. I think people pick up this game because it's Pokémon and are not well informed of how to win and make the best decisions.
I think there is a few factors, some of it is less good players who are surprised when a pokemon gets worse because they are unaware of the buffs and lose trying to make plays they could prebuff and failed to adjust. Then there is the who have access to all the pokemon who are gonna move on from a pokemon when they are bad because they don’t main a specific character
Me be good, me press buttons, me go foward, me fight 5 poke alone, me lose button press, you dumb, me good... Monkey business
I think the reason cliff falling happens is because people are use to engaging whenever they want when it’s broken, they continue to do the same thing when it’s fine. I think buzz is in a pretty good spot and I tend to know how to carry with it, but the wr doesn’t show that and it’s disappointing
I’d be curious to see how these rates correlate with the pick rates of these Pokémon that have huge win rate variances. Anecdotally, I feel like a lot of the “better” players who are concerned with ladder climbing pick the top meta picks, and once they’re nerfed, these better players are jumping to the newly buffed Pokémon, leaving behind the people who maybe aren’t as skilled. But that has no actual backing so this could be very very wrong.
the unite player-base has SOO many problems, it can be hard to cover them all. decision making IS extremely poor, I agree! even before a game, we can see people choosing pokemon that will hit incredibly hard, our favorite category: attackers. yes wonderful! massive damage, hurray! but will they live? will they be there when it matters? or will they just jump into battles that they can't win? for this reason alone, I played far too many matches with Goodra in a row because team competition is not even a THOUGHT in their heads.
and can we talk about the phenomenon of enemy [insert pokemon] being s-tier and when that same pokemon is on your own team it immediately goes down to f-tier? what is up with that??
as a solo player, sometimes I think about ME potentially being a bad player during a match, if I'm making any mistakes or not being there as much as I should. but it really is about how reliable your teammates are in RETURN for your own reliability. I've been on extremely well put together and efficient teams, and I've gone up against some too, acknowledging that the opposing team WAS truly fantastic. and that, even despite losing, it WAS a good match and it WAS a good effort.
I used to not understand the concept of farming and leveling up much, essentially thinking "wow my teammates are lowkey dumb for not going straight into fights for goal zones." [goofy ahh mindset 😓]
but when learning to essentially abolish that mindset entirely, I began to make a lot of observations. teammates mainly farming at the absolute WORST times and taking their time to do so, trying to "defend" goal zones or even "pointlessly" score [8 points, no stacking item even equipped while we are all trying to obtain one of the objectives... unfortunately a lot of Supports in my games do this].
I saw someone mention that people genuinely don’t know where they should be at and it's TRUE. it feels like a constant stream of "Thanks! [sarcastic]" and "Help me!" rather than a strategic "Gather here!" and "I need back-up!"
should I even mention the other examples of pettiness of teammates? I don’t jump in to rescue you once and you immediately switch to another path and leave me to a horde of three pokemon because you can't get your way? and lest we not forget the amount of players that immediately give up, and they know what they're doing is wrong. it's frustrating to see a teammate running back and forth in a goal zone for 4 minutes so you're not able to report them and get them off these matches. these players unfortunately will receive no punishment, and this cycle might just continue.
People are bad because the game doesn’t do a good enough job of teaching people how to play it shouldn’t be like 60% up to the concentrators to teach people how to play
Im so glad you said this. People overreact out the wazoo over the tiniest nerfs! While characters like Dodrio (my main 😍) are chilling and doing well since forever!
I still play sylveon and i guess it's still good but ofc not like it used to be. Full heal is working very well for me.
I think part is maybe a macro issue, I think part is that large portions of the playerbase join in when x or y thing is turbobusted, and when the interactions change and certain combos are no longer guaranteed 100-0's, they don't have the matchup knowledge to handle their opponent's reversal combo. In other Moba's I can occasionally fall victim to this, I accidentally pick up a character who's way overtuned in current patch and think that's the normal, then when they get tuned down and things don't work the same, I'm not sure how to get out of the situation I put myself in since in last patch I was in a situation where I wouldn't have overextended from the exact same combination of actions.
It’s too easy and too difficult to climb in this game, what I mean is the game rewards you more for wins and so a bad player playing a lot can be carried to a rank above their skill level, but then a high skill player can be stymied by players that do not understand the strategy of the game
the playerbase in general, even if you let them play nonstop for months, simply cannot develop any fundamentals, micro, macro, any gamesense, they have consistently shown themselves to be hopeless in this aspect
even if any of us stop for years, we can still confidently say that we'll still do better than most of the active players by then
I started playing the game shortly after ceruledge was released (about 2 weeks after). I went into ranked as soon as I got my 5 pokemon and didn't lose until I got to veteran 4. I've gotten as high as veteran 1 and I still don't understand how players are so bad/uncooperative. I play center and I'll have laners constantly steal my farm yet they'll still fall behind me at the end. I'm usually the highest scorer/main scorer on my team and I just don't get it. I've barely breached 200 games and I'm schooling people with 1000+
The moment you expect players to not be bad is the moment you dont understand the game. I figured this out 2.5 years ago after playing my 1st MOBA.
This happens because it's way easy to rank up in unite, so even with negative wr ppl reach 1400 as long as they play a lot.
It's pretty simple, the player base overall has never really learned to play the game; they've only learned how to exploit what's "broken". Once it's no longer broken, they don't actually know how to play it. And as new players come in, they're not going to take the time to learn all the pokemon because that would be a terrible experience for them. So then they just become part of the system and the cycle repeats.
I would say it’s more like a learning curve thing if a Pokémon is broken and a person knowingly or unknowingly plays only that then they stunt their growth as a player and don’t really learn how to play properly. My guess is then they wonder after a patch why they’re losing then probably just move on to a better Mon.
I main all rounder and more specifically Machamp and when trying out more broken all rounders like Urshifu I noticed how less careful I had to be when approaching fights.
In terms of why low pick rate mons have high win rates, it’s probably people like me who main the Pokémon and just vibe with how they play more than wanting to play meta, so the skill floor is a little higher.
It’s hard for new players to learn how to play when there is little to no communication in game besides a couple pings here and there.
I'm trying to remember the tutorial for the game, which I think did a good job explaining the game compared to other MOBAs, but didn't do much to explain the intricacies of the MOBA genre. I feel a lot of players need that ladder option. I wish the Solo Challenge was a permanent thing, so people could have a PvE experience, but could also serve as the requirement for ranked matches. By beating the highest difficulty of the Solo Challenge, along with having a certain number of Pokemon, should players be able to play ranked. This way, it forces people to learn how to play the game before really playing it. I don't know how much this would help, but I hope it makes skill gaps less extreme.
it's gotten to a point where going into a match you just gotta have to play something that can 1v3 or even 1v5 a fight, if the teams were equal , (It's not to validate mewtwo and zacian or recently TTAR, but things like urshifu in the zacian meta which was passing by under the radar Metagross which is super good right now , Mimikyu, blazekin, slightly over tunes characters that give you can edge.) Sure people would be picking balanced mons but the second someone decent who is expected to carry every game picks something fun the eleki is walking main base at the 2 minute mark while 2 teammates are farming a baltoy in jungle, another is thanks pinging and one is scoring 12 on the T1 , both of which are up for the opposing team.
It's very different for different regions, Mine for example has gotten so bad that once I started playing Solo q after 1 year of 5 stacking, I only get one decent person on my team who barely knows what they are doing, more often then not I would have people with 42 ro 48% winrate, even a 49% winrate guy is rare these days and they play like the winrate suggests, they miss their moves, they hog all the farm, they get KO'ed in every fight they take. I love playing supports, that was my role in 5 stacks but how is a hoopa/eldegoss/blissey/clefable supposed to carry these people? plus for people who don't play this game for a living, I get to play like 4-5 games a day, If I go in with the thought of having fun and playing fun mons , I will come out with a Defeat, surrendered, defeat, surrendered battle record.
In Buzz specific case its really been a hard nerf. Sometimes cooldowns get adjusted yes, but losing a move reset is huge. It ruins the flow and the fun of his gameplay in a big way, they should've just nerfed the power of the move, like the stun the kidnapping potential and the damage. Now i feel dead in the water like a lucario when misses espeed, its horrible
I do think part of it is a character needs to be turbo busted to singlehandedly carry games, and small nerfs put you much more at the mercy of matchmaking rng