That's my mum in a nuttshell, she gets along wonderfully regardless of sexuality or gender and it comes quite natural. (Like she doesn't mess up pronouns, brought it up with her Spanish teacher how to translate that to her third language, LGBTQ+ support on social media, fake openess to me not being straight etc.) Until I brought my then-girlfriend home for Christmas...
I have sympathy for the second mom, too. She grew up with poor values instilled in her, but was willing to drop those beliefs when they didn’t align with her love for her son. We’re all learning and unlearning. Shit is hard.
@@veiledowl1357my own mom is trying so hard. She's mormon. I doubt she's dropped her beliefs but she still tries hard to respect the pronouns of my friends and partners and myself. It's not as simple as anybody wants to say it should be. I want her to not be mormon but cults are cults. She's old and it CAN be too late. But im happy she's trying at least.
Exactly! How can we hope for a better world if we don't allow people the space to change? She sounds like she is truly trying, and most people don't have the ability to change their situation overnight. If she was trying to change her son instead of her views, that would be a completely different situation.
The woman with the homophobic husband is a traditional wife so she is trapped in her marriage with no support from outside of her family and church. She will be shunned and homeless if she leaves her husband. She has no safety net. I personally think she was very brave for standing up to her husband. Some of the commentators were way too hard on her. She is doing the best she can under her current circumstances. I hope she can find support to help her get out of her marriage.
Absolutely. Like even just getting the divorce would probably be very difficult if he controls the money because she wouldn't be able to get a lawyer. Getting a job would be a tough step because she had no experience so she'd likely have to hope that she can't get enough alimony to help support her in finding a job that pays well enough for her to be able to support herself. But then we go back to the lawyer issue. And we also don't know how the husband might respond to divorce since seems very “traditional” already. I hope she finds get way out or a miracle of humanity happens to the husband
I was a wife in that situation (minus children thankfully for that circumstance) The only way I got out? I had a coworker that helped get me the 5000 to get put. Honestly though? I've yet to actually "get on my feet" and be fully secure and independent. I was young then even, but the baggage from a situation like that is heavy LOTS. Unpacking that can take a very long time.
Definitely. She's in a terrible situation. Sometimes people are doing the best they can in a terrible situation. It's messed up that she bought into homophobia, but she's doing the work and that's what needs to happen. People don't deserve an award but at least a keep upp the good work!
I completely agree. She reminds me a lot of my mom, actually. My mom has been trying her best to be supportive of me, but struggles to understand that it’s not a choice. Even so, she still wants me to be happy. She’s just so stuck in thinking it’s a sin and that she’ll never see me in heaven. I’m sure a lot of other Christian homophobic parents are in a similar position, just like that mother. The ones that don’t abandon their kids, but still struggle through dismantling their homophobia.
that mom unlearning her homophobia just made me cry. those people on reddit slamming her for staying married is just sad. they think divorce is this super simple thing. this woman sounds stuck in this marriage and is probably a victim herself. like damn, if we revile people who are trying to change then why would people bother to try to change?
@@gracelessw.e I agree, I think only gay individuals can truly reclaim a slur of all things. I don't think non gay people can reclaim a slur that has so much weight and history behind it
The woman with a homophobic husband and gay son is not the arsehole, she's just going through her redemption arc, and it sounds like she's doing a good job of it.
@@ash_g8st944 I think it's excusable in this case, given she's throwing his words back at him, but I totally understand why others would take a hardline _"You should never say that"_ stance.
@@ash_g8st944in the heat of the moment, especially since for 36 years she thought it was ok to use, I forgive her for that. When people are frustrated and being accused of ridiculous shit, you can lose your control.
"Puppy love is still love to the puppy." I heard this when I was young and it still rings true. It's not adult love, it's not built to last yet, but the puppies are still in love and that's worth celebrating.
And it still is an important step in a child's development and helps them build social skills they'll need for more serious relationships later. Yes the father is just wrong on so many levels.
It's adjusting to the change of how they view and handle relationships. You don't have to date as a minor teen but when if you wait, you still go through those same stages once you're going onDates an starting to have actual romantic relationships. I say this as someone that didn't even go on my 1st date until I was 18.
@@Insertia_Nameia I am so curious bc like. I didn’t go on any dates until I was like 19, after which i quickly realized I might be aromatic asexual. I thought I was a late bloomer for my whole teens but turned out I was no-bloomer lol. When you were a teen were you refraining from relationships or were you not interested then?
Even *IF* Noa's relationship is "just a phase", in this moment of Noa's life her feelings are genuine and should be respected. Even if she is still figuring herself out, she is feeling all the feelings right now. She is in love and for a supportive parent that should be all that matters.
Came here to say this! Even if it’s “just a phase” and Noa doesn’t end up dating women in the future, this is still a close relationship she has with someone right now and should be treated the way you would treat any other friend or date of hers.
ugh that story triggered past memories for me. a classmate of mine asked my friend if i was "faking being queer" (for attention??) and that i was "too young to know". i get that people take time to figure out prejudices and homophobia but omg it gets so exhausting to deal with from the other end. the guy grew up in a different generation but the daughter shouldn't have to deal with any of that. he's a major AH
Right. Imagine not passing on a gift from a friend. If that gift is a dead rat or something you know is a “gift” then it’s fine to not pass it along if it’s intended to hurt them. Otherwise just pass it on.
Oh gosh, that mum unlearning her own homophobia, writing that reddit post while waiting for her son and his boyfriend made me cry. I hope she got/gets away from her husband - she deserves some peace and time to grow in her opinions.
Imagine his daughter was actually a “little kid” as described and he withheld a gift bookmark from his 7-year-old daughter because the gifter was her 7-year-old “girlfriend”. Like bro, at the very least these “little kids” are close friends, and why would you mess with their little gifts to each other? You, as a grown adult? Meddling with “little kid” romance? If she’s actually a little kid to you, this behaviour is so embarrassing.
What kills me is everyone assumes that if you have Xfriend you MUST be dating, and if it is dating it MUST be sexual. Is this why bigots don't have friends? Like, they don't want to admit their adult feelings or because they're not adult enough to admit that there's room for intimacy outside of touching no no squares?
Responding to “you know you’re homophobic like him right?” With “I know, and I’m doing my best to be a better person” is one of the coolest things I’ve seen. A parent who can admit their mistakes and learn from them, and works to improve is an amazing parent. Kudos to her
The contrast between the first and second story is striking: 1) "I have nothing against the LGBT-community, BUT..." Says all the "right things" until someone close comes out. 2) "I always saw being gay as sinful, but then my son came out..." Upholds the learned prejudices until someone close comes out - then chooses to support the loved one and change their own worldview. I've seen both types of people, in discussions about homophobia, about racism, misogyny etc.
@@RenaRain it’s a perfect example of someone who wants to play the victim, but is self-conscious enough to recognize that saying all the things that they actually think will get them in trouble while still being a piece of shit. And someone who recognizes everything bad they’ve done and it doesn’t try to hide them, in order to grow into a better person for the sake of those around them.
each of my parents is one of those lmao. my mom says she doesnt hold anything against queer people, but that in the eyes of God its wrong and he'll change me, blah blah blah my dad is kind of a conservative bigot but not religious. which is actually a hell of a lot easier to change, because they only have to wrestle with their own viewpoint and not feel like they are going against a higher power. my coming out was enough to put a stop to almost all my dads queerphobia because he didnt want to hurt me. meanwhile my mom isnt openly hateful but has made it clear that she can never accept it as something that isnt wrong and doesnt need to be fixed
@@ashleyjohnson9651 Yeah, feeling like "I'm going against God's will" must be something rather big to overcome for religious people. Still, I hope your mom eventually changes her mind. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. I'm glad that your dad at least realizes that it really isn't worth it to hurt his kid over some world view. Sheesh.
NEVER think you're being "too nice", people on the internet are just too mean and strict for some reason, especially when it comes to people who try to change, it kinda seems people forgot what redemption was and sympathy seems to be non-existent, it's sad really
Honestly they are way more judgemental than she could ever be. I think these kinds of people only hold their "morally good" positions out of the sheer luck of being born into them, and would be the most bigoted ones if the roles were reversed.
@@marzipancutter8144 yess exactly. I’m very thankful to have been born in an accepting household, I’m bi and my sister is trans, but my parents (specifically my mom) were raised in extremely conservative, Christian and homophobic households/environments. They were the ones to break the cycle, I don’t know if I would be the way I am today if they hadn’t carried the burden of breaking the cycle, actually, i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t. They still have thoughts do “deconstruct”, but I can’t blame them. With my grandparents from my mom’s side, it was even worse. They were extremely homophobic and transphobic until my cousin (their favorite grandson) came out as transgender, it was very difficult for them, but they are doing their best to change because they LOVE my cousin. It took years, but they are much much more accepting now. My sister came out as trans a few weeks ago, and they were so accepting and loving, so different from the time my cousin came out. They still have a lot of bigotry to work on, but i don’t think people realize how truly admirable it is to change SO MUCH after decades and decades of believing something completely opposite. Btw sorry if the phrase “coming out” is wrong, i am not native and wasn’t sure how to say it correctly.
The second story has me straight up bawling, it is wild to me how little sympathy people have for those getting over literal brainwashing the mom is a real one 100%
Given that her parents cut her off for choosing to support her gay son, it's clear that mom was raised in a very intolerant home. Most people spend at least some time believing the same things as the people who raised them. She's making the effort to grow and learn. It's easy to stay in your bubble and keep believing what you've been told. It's hard to step away from what you've been taught your whole life. I personally think it's really sweet that she loves her son so truly and wholly that the moment he came out to her she accepted him and started trying to become better for him, despite the obvious external pressure to reject him. She's a good, loving mother who is trying to be there for her son and do what's best for him.
It's a bookmark for God's sake, not a ring. If she was a friend and he wouldn't have an issue, or a boyfriend and wouldn't have an issue and the only issue is them being 2 girls in a relationship, then yes YTA and it is homophobia plain and simple.
Hes definitely giving strong "I accept the LGBTQ+ but I'd never want my own children to be one" bigot vibes. My mom is one as well as "I don't care so long as it's behind closed doors" type.
Yep, also the 20+ thing? Definitely homophobia. You're old enough to sign up for $100,000 in debt, the military, own guns (at least in the US), buy alcohol(not in the US)...but not old enough to know who you are attracted to? No doubts whatsoever.
Jamie I resonate with your sympathy for the mum un-learning homophobia. She has made a start and offered an olive branch, which is more than many homophobes do. It doesn’t deserve a medal, but certainly a chance at redemption
Yeah, if someone is genuinely trying, if they're open to feedback and willing to unlearn their biases and change their behavior, they deserve some grace while they make those changes. Especially since her first reaction to her son coming out was acceptance.
I agree completely. She's clearly aware that she still has some way to go and she isn't trying to excuse her beliefs. Things are not going to get any better, if people who are trying, just get blamed for not moving fast enough. There is enough people, who are not even trying or acknowledging their bigotry, to call out. It's too easy to judge people over the internet and tell them what they should do or be, but real life isn't quite that simple. I hope that the OP is safe and will get the support she needs, if she chooses to leave her husband, but right now she seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place and still doing her best to be a good mum.
If you have spent your whole life being told to think one way, it is very hard to unlearn thoughts and behaviors. She seems to be trying, but it might take some time
The fact that she's actually taking the time to un-learn this generational homophobia to understand her son instead of rejecting him like her husband shows she has empathy (and a brain) and willingness to change! Thats more than what I can say for the sperm donor
I don't understand how some people think that people get from homophobe or transphobe or whatever to fully supportive, accepting ally. It's not a magic switch that they can press to suddenly unlearn their behaviour and change their language and attitudes: it takes time! It sounds like she's heading in the right direction and supporting her son and that's the most important thing.
"how'd she not know that was a slur?" I'm a bisexual trans man who grew up extremely conservative and thus came out later in life. When I went to college, I had no idea the "d slur" in reference to lesbians was a slur because it was used so casually around me, to the point where I called my college roommates girlfriend the d slur thinking that it meant "butch lesbian" and she had to explain that it was a slur. I was mortified. So I totally buy that she didn't know the f slur was a slur
I feel you. I once said something to some friends that ended up coming across as really racist but was said in ignorance. Fortunately they all knew me well and understood I did NOT mean to come off that way and I felt so awful when they explained what the issue was with what I said.
@@acesinger6092people are dancing around it- the word‘s „dyke“ (I am one, people, chill). Used as a slur for lesbians, but a lot of us have nuanced relationships with the world (eg. I use it to describe myself fairly often, I‘m chill about it, quite like using it tbh) but like. Obviously do not just call other people that etc etc standard slur ettiquette
The dad thinks she's a 'bad influence' yet he lets them hang around together and gives her a lift etc and is honoured to be trusted by her father to take care of her? He knows full well she isn't a bad influence on her, he's just a homophobe.
SERIOUSLY I was expecting something super extravagant that signified the serious nature of the relationship (in which case it would still be unacceptable to deal with it this way! Obviously! But I could see how that would trigger the dad's unacknowledged prejudices). But a pretty bookmark! That's just a super sweet, thoughtful small gift! If that already makes him uncomfortable... Yikes
IKR! If a lovely bookmark is a questionable gift from a "bad influence" to this guy, I wonder how he'd handle an actual bad influence coming into contact with his daughter. Considering his "solution" with the bookmark was to just put it out of sight and ignore it, I don't think he has the emotional maturity to handle other people's feelings and identity when they don't fit into what he deems acceptable and presentable. Rug sweeping is a really irritating character flaw.
@@_ksm0922 Yeah, I once said that I thought he sounded like a girl on some teen magazine website and they posted my comment in the magazine in a section about Justin Bieber's haters 😂😂
You know, I never knew how it would be applicable to real life, but that second story actually reminds me of my favorite Skyrim quote of all things. "What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" I feels for that woman and I hope dearly that she is both able to get out of the situation she's in and that she is eventually able to completely unlearn her queerphobia.
Mum in second story needs love, compassion and help getting away from her abusive husband, not insults from keyboard warriors on reddit. I am an 18 year old bisexual girl myself and I have a lot of compassion for her. She’s trying, but she’s stuck in an abusive and controlling relationship and it’s really hard to leave those. Come on everyone, be nice!!! Jamie, you’re spot on with your sympathy for her.
Also she’s not very financially literate. If she left she could possibly end up homeless and destitute, as her family seems to be on the AH husbands side. Also he may get physically abusive if he knew she was trying to leave. It happens. There are many reasons why she may feel trapped.
We NEED to be sympathetic to the mom in the second story. People like her a redeemable and the only way we can get them on the right path is by showing them that we will accept them with open arms. It's actually a common refrain among people who escape hate groups that they stuck in the group longer because they feared that regular society won't accept them after what they've said and done. It's our responsibility to show them that it's never too late to change. I applaud her!
This is so important, if the minute someone starts changing themselves to let go of bigotry/hate whatever it was they are immediately told it doesn't matter you still suck for ever being that way and not being perfect immediately then it'll be no surprise when they get scared off and maybe decide that the Accepting crew are not so accepting after all. Even moreso when it's something that's been hammered in since birth and they're breaking a whole cycle.
Why does Reddit think divorce is so easy 💀 every damn time people always immediately say get a divorce like ??? It doesn’t work that way people are complicated with complicated relationships and feelings. You can love someone, even if it’s not good, you can’t really help it
The mom saying Bree can't be gay because she liked Justin Beiber and other boy bands, just feels like my mom bringing up every excuse as to why I couldn't be trans. "You liked Barbie! And dress-up! And sparkly pink fashion games!" Yes... I had interests. Interests that don't necessarily mean anything about my gender or sexuality. I *also* liked monster trucks, figuring out puzzles and word games, and playing in the dirt... but none of those things were weaponized against me when I tried to express my identity. Hell, those things were largely overlooked entirely when I was growing up, because they didn't fit the narrative of Artistic Girly Girl that people pushed onto me. I *still* like fashion of all kinds. I loved the new Barbie movie and feel nostalgia for the old animated ones. I do drag, get dressed up in sparkly heels and flowing gowns. And I'm a boy. Bree's childhood interests don't mean anything about her current identity.
Yep. My parents think I can't be trans "because you were super girly as a child". Yeah, that "super girly" phase happens to coincide with the years my clothes were 99% hand-me-downs from my super girly cousins. Like yeah, when your only options are super girly and nude, you only have one option. Heck, I've even had people tell me I can't be trans because I still think puppies and babies are cute.
@@waffles3629I’m sorry, WHAT the fuck do babies and puppies have to do with being trans. Humans are instinctually hardwired to think babies/baby animals because their eyes are too big for their faces. There was a study about it somewhere lol
And... Bree was at college on a soccer scholarship. Not conclusive, but leaning towards maybe Bree being gay. Internalised homophobia really is the monster under the bed sometimes. If the mother went through a bit of a questioning/dreading time she might not want her daughter to have that. Compulsory heterosexualism aka comp-het can be a right head-fuck.
with the last one i understand OP being concerned with her daughter deciding to drop the subject that is funding her college tuition. like that isn't a smart move to make and when you hear its come from a new person (particularly a romantic partner, as i feel like it's natural to worry about abuse/manipulation when a new romantic partner is suggesting a potentially life altering decision) then i understand going "whoa, hold on, you need to think about this. this is serious." but what that has to do with sexuality i have no idea. it wasnt even part of the convo
Why is it such a persistent idea that someone can just break up with someone who they've been dependent on for years? There are living and financial and Healthcare issues that could leave someone in a trapped relationship. "Just leave" is garbage from strangers on the internet.
Agreed, especially in a US-context. It might be easier to leave a marriage in other places, but particularly in the USA if you've been a housewife for decades you're just not going to find a job or housing. Doesn't matter if you get half in the divorce, if you can even afford a lawyer for that. You'd be homeless until then and have no way to support yourself afterwards either... It's just a really awful situation for OP (and especially her son)
I think most of the people saying things like that are rather young and have not been in a situation like that before. I really felt bad for her, because when I was in an abusive relationship and financially reliant on my ex-husband, I could only leave because of the support of my mum; I went to live with her while I got back on my feet. It was a struggle only with a two year gap on my CV to find a permanent job and move out again. Well, this woman's mother and father have disowned her for not being a homophobe. She's probably been a housewife for nearly 20 years, leaving a massive gap on her CV, and now all of the most important people in her life besides her kids have told her to go fuck herself. And she is still trying to do the best for her son. I hope she can get the support of someone, friends or charities, to be able to leave and become independent if she decides to.
People on reddit tend to leap to leaving partners, as if alternate housing, money and personal safety are no object. I'm with you, Jamie, that Mum has a lot of conditioning to unlearn and a long way to go, and I have a lot of empathy for the situation she's in. It reads as though there's more than homophobia wrong in that family and it might be that she's in a place where she can't simply drop the husband, the home, the food security and financial security in one fell swoop. Reddit also likes to tell people to "get their ducks in a row" before instigating divorce proceedings, so it might just be that behind the scenes, her ducks aren't so easy to line up.
@@AnodicCasserolei think ur right, mom is stuck and her AH husband sounds authoritarian, stubborn, self-righteous and likely abusive. my heart goes out to her, she is in a tough situation and still trying to unlearn bigotry and stay in contact with her son-
I agree, a lot of what she said made me very concerned for how the husband is treating her; She's expected to explain herself for going out in a nice dress and gets yelled at when he doesn't agree with where she's going (and she's in the habit of justifying his behavior by saying her actions caused him to be suspicious, placating him by choosing a simpler outfit, and let's not forget her original question was if she was an A-hole for standing up to him). She says she's bad at money but rather than help her learn, the husband just controls all the finances, ensuring she can't gain financial freedom from him. Also, I question if she really is bad with money vs just been gaslit to think that she is. My mom was also convinced she was too bad with money to survive on her own (and also married and had her first kid while still a teenager). She now runs a successful business, and it turns out my ex-father was just blaming her for his own bad financial decisions. But even when you have a ton of support (which this mom has stated she does not) divorce is a messy, drawn-out, expensive process. For three years my mom had to live with my older sibling because all of her money was going toward's legal fees on top of the medical expenses she already had for her poor health. I can't imagine her trying to do all that while also homeless with no support.
@@Ravivkit - im so glad your mom is safe and thriving on her own!! Abusive people will isolate their partners from loved ones, keep them financially dependent, undermine their self esteem and self worth to make sure they stay. People dont realize how hard it is to get out of these kind of relationships- sounds like you already knew all that tho❤️ I love that you refer to him as your ‘ex-father’!
I totally agree with you about that second one. I feel like people tend to forget just how much someone's upbringing and environment can shape their views. What matters most is that when her son came out, she did her best to support him despite her learned biases. And yes I agree that ideally the most moral thing to do would be to divorce the homophobic father, but not everyone's circumstances are so cut and dry. It's wild to me how many people in the post were just berating her about things she was clearly trying to do better with. Like what's the point, do we want people to learn or just stop existing? There's a huge difference from someone who's trying to learn but had a problematic upbringing, and someone who's been given endless second chances and still chooses to be a bigot.
@@elaexplorer she is 47 and even if she was 36, what do you know? We cannot assume what other factors play into that kind of thought. One of it could be culture, it might even be some kind of disability she just didnt feel the need to mention. A lot of that might just also be the conditioning from her own parents. There is a lot we dont know. I say we shouldnt judge when we dont know the reasons for something, and we shouldnt have to even know the reasons for something
I think she also deserves credit for knowing that she has more growth to do. A lot of people would say "well I've accepted you, isnt that enough?", but she is actively working to keep getting better
@@elaexplorer Have you ever heard of financial abuse? Have you ever had to get a job as a woman without prior experience? It's hard. It's not as easy as leaving. Expecially when you have no where to go and no one to help. Maybe her son might help, but the longer a relationship, the harder it is to leave.
Listening to the story I believe she was probably raised by a misogynistic society as well. She may have been a "stay at home mother" from the moment she left high school for all we know. Did she say something like 36 years? To have an adult son she would have had to have had him at 18! So she may never have held a job and that would be terrifying for her! I bet it may well be her son who ends up helping HER escape. I am so glad they have each other! (either she was 36 years old or married to the guy for 36 years. Either way, starting over would not be easy for her without support from somewhere. She mentions her parents are still alive, so I think she's 36 and married and had a kid straight out of high school!)
Third story: I feel like with one move she has screwed up years of 'letting our daughter know she will be accepted.' Because now her lived experience shows her that she won't be accepted because, what? She didn't come out when her mothers expected her to? She didn't go about it how they went about it?
I think your view on the second story is exactly right. It's easy to just get mad at people who are making slow progress in acceptance, but it's so important to recognize that they're trying. It's 1000 times better to recognize that a viewpoint you grew up on was wrong and take some years to unlearn it than to stubbornly hold onto a wrong belief just because it's harder to change.
As a 40-something bi, that third mom immediately gave me vibes of the lesbians I knew in college who wouldn't date people like me because we weren't "really gay." Like girl, leave the Gold Star nonsense back where it belongs, 20 years in the past.
Ugh, had some similar experiences on dating apps :S No matter how many women you've dated, if you dare breathe in the general vicinity of a man, then you're just a confused straight woman who needs to be put in her place. Also, you must have figured your orientation 100% out by the time you're fifteen, or else.
The second OP sounds like a great mum actually, she's doing her best for her son and she's listening to him and willing to learn, I think there's something inspiring about people just trying to be better people, and she's standing up for her son and thats the most important part
Yeah she's trying! And she's in an objectively abusive relationship that she doesn't have the resources to leave. She wants to do right by her kid and I think that she is on her way to being an ally. What she needs, is support so she can leave the asshole safely and quickly.
28:55 can you go back 30 years I was absolutely fucking trans phobic and homophobic asshole. Now I am out as a bisexual myself. And my kids are both non-binary my daughters are also bisexual. I am totally happy to give room for someone who is trying because how else are they going to learn and if all we do is yell at them for not having been an ally all along, they're just gonna feel like LGBTQ community are totally jerks and that it's reasonable to be homophobic.
I think people like her who are willing to listen and learn yet come from a bad place originally are often better than those who never had that issue to begin with but are unwilling to listen or learn... Better to have someone willing to change than someone who is unwilling to change even if their opinions may be correct
Re second story and Jamie's questioning whether he is being too sympathetic Jamie, I think you are completely correct. My impression reading between the lines is this is probably a family in the fundamentalist Christian community in the US. The mother is probably a tradwife who grew up being told that, as a girl, she is second-class and worthless, that the father and then the husband is the leader of the household and she must just submit. And likely she was home-schooled as well and has no employable skills Jamie, please continue to be kind in your thoughts and approach towards other people. That is one of your superpowers!
Agree 100%. Maybe not fundamentalist, but maybe “traditional” conservative Christian. Imo, the husband sounds emotionally and financially abusive. If he was so good at handling the funds and finances, why did he miss EVERYTHING to be at work? Sounds like a dad that thought his only role was the leader and breadwinner. She even showed signs of negative self talk that is instilled in purity culture, traditional family conservative Christians/fundamentalist. It sounds like she may be a bit trapped because of financial control and eroded self esteem. I have sympathy for her. She’s trying, and her heart is in the right place. Hopefully she does not have to choose between her husband and her son because it doesn’t sound like she’ll be able to be alone easily, especially since she’s surrounded by bigoted friends and family. Edit: I went to the source post. She lives in Israel. She was raised as an Orthodox Jew. Her husband, who is Dati-Christian, paid a dowry to her parents in order to marry her. Not sure what religion she practices now, but that’s the known circumstances. Not conservative Christian, but honestly a lot of orthodox/conservative abrahamic religions treat women in the same fashion.
100%. She sounds like she was raised with these beliefs and her husband and family sound controlling as hell. I’m happy she’s trying, and it’s brave to take steps knowing that you could lose your entire support structure, even if that structure is hyper-controlling, bigoted, and emotionally abusive. The will to grow is the first steep in a long journey.
This is my impression too. Deconstruction, whatever it is about, isn't an easy journey: you'll inevitably fall back sometimes until you fully build yourself back. It can be a years-long process. She is undoubtedly from a multi generational fundamental christian family, probably with acquaintances that are only with that same mindset, especially if she is socially isolated from anyone that isn't in the inner circle of her husband or their church as it is often true for tradwife. She never was exposed to anything outside her bubble and it will be a hard path to change her decade long reflexes ingrained since her own birth.
@@rachelann9362I agree! As a lesbian who grew up with a father who was emotionally just horrible overall, I know how hard it is to distance yourself from that. I wish the best for her and her son honestly.
Yes i absolutely agree. Kindness und understanding is almost never wrong and can help alot, especially in these situations. Being unforgiving of mistakes can harden the discourse (even though it is understandable on an emotional note) while really trying to consider the background and supporting the steps already gone in the right direction is more constructive. People generally react better to change when they feel supported and are encouraged, instead of being talked down on. So while it still depends onthe situation - as it always does- i think Jamie is absolutely right here and i felt like some of the comments were a little too harsh (for my liking), even though i understand where they come from.
My thing with that first one is like, What if Noa really needed a bookmark and Laura promised her one? Then Noa doesn't get it, and thinks Laura forgot. That damages Noa's trust, even if it isn't Laura's fault.
I don't think it really should come up to ask if someone's relationship is 'legitimate' or their love is 'real'. Especially when they're just starting out. Give them some breathing room, they're teenagers, they've got it rough already, damn.
US AF Lt. Col. is United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel. I’m a 43 year old trans nb biromantic lesbian, and it definitely wasn’t a phase, dad. ETA, 2nd story: before judging the mom, let’s do some math. She’s 36 with an 18 (I assume) year old, which means she’s been with this man since she was a teenager. She’s fully dependent. The fact that she’s going against her husband says a lot to me. Definitely NTA.
@@malter95 oh, ok. She kept saying that she’d been homophobic for 36 years, so I assumed she was 36. The fact that she’s in her 40s makes me even more empathetic, and even more impressed that she’s making the effort to change. I rarely see that from my generation. Gen X is basically Boomer Lite.
Hey, I don't wanna sound rude, but I had the question for a while... What does nonbinary lesbian mean? Lesbian is usually said when talking about girls and nonbinary people aren't girls, they are enby, right? I just really want to know what exactly that stands for to avoid misunderstandings
With the first one, if she said nothing and then came out at 20 he’d say it’s not valid because it’s sudden and she’d have surely known sooner. There’s no winning. Same way that trans kids are told they’re too young to know but then when they’re older and coming out suddenly it’s too late they should’ve known sooner and there weren’t enough signs.
This. When I was 17 and my sister was 15 she came out as bi and my Mom told her she was too young to know and that it was just a phase. At 21 I told my mom I had a boyfriend. She goes "are you sure... This is all too sudden. I think you are confused" and then proceeded to explain how friendship works to me. And my Mom wonders why her relationship with both her adult children is strained.
Literally! I hate when people say teenagers are too young to know their sexuality/gender, like that’s literally THE time when you really start figuring that stuff out because of hormones and puberty
I didn’t realize I was bi until I was 17 and by then I felt embarrassed because I grew up in a pretty supportive environment and thought I should have known by now. But when something is so consistently presented as the norm to you, it can be really easy not to question it! It’s not less valid to figure things out later, but of course that doesn’t mean that some teens aren’t already right about their sexuality/gender! Identity is something you spend your entire life chasing, mapping, and building yourself; not every brick is laid at the same time
24:51 she used HIS words against him, she didn't mean it in a derogatory way. She's a wonderful person, I hope she's able to be free from that awful man.
15 year old: I’m gay Homophobe: You’re too young to know *A toddler boy plays with a toddler girl* Homophobe: Aww, look at them. They’re boyfriend and girlfriend.
When I tell you that my cousins did this. It's so goddam gross especially because the ones they called "boyfriend and girlfriend" had a huge age gap and was cousins!!
68yo gay male here - I had girl friends pre-school, they were the daughters of my mother's friends. At that age, of course, it didn't matter, and being gay wasn't something anyone ever talked about. I had to discover and deal with my sexuality the hard way - trial and error. Some role models would have been helpful, but when I was growing up, they didn't even exist.
i just wanna add to the last one: just cause someone has posters of someone doesn’t mean they’re attracted to them, they could just like their music/the media they’re from. i have multiple posters and prints of male characters from shows i watch, doesn’t make me any less lesbian
Literally though, that’s why I was so confused when Jamie was talking about how she could be bi because I was still arguing that the posters could just be…posters? None of my posters with people on them have been because I’m attracted to them lmao
I had posters of animals. And I'm definitely not attracted to eagles, or penguins etc... You can like something, without being sexually or romantically attracted to it. And you can also be bi/pansexual (but please leave the animals alone).
But also, this argument never appear in reverse situation - if a girl have a lot of posters of Barbie, female singers and female characters from tv etc. no one really says ,,She have do many women on posters, she have to be a lesbian", but when a girl have a boysband poster - ,,she definitively have cruch on them" 🙃🙃🙃 You are not allowed to just like a band or character from tv if it's of the opposite gender, you HAVE TO have romantic/sexual feelings about them, because why else would you have their poster then?
@@Nic0Dr4wsBoth could be true!! I think Jamie could just be trying not to put the kid in a box. Maybe she had a crush, maybe she was interested in the music, but either way, that doesn’t reflect on her attraction to women.
The woman with the openly hateful husband is what a friend once described as "A recovering Homophobe" She's actively trying to change, but old habits are hard to break. And she is ntah in that situation.
Deconstruction takes many yrs. It's not an easy prospect. Especially when you're tired to someone that will fight you every step of your journey through it and will berate and hurt you for it at every turn.
Thank you for clarifying and acknowledging how someone can’t always leave a relationship the moment they find out their partner has awful views on something.
My father was always really wonderful to me, and that extended (to a lesser extent, of course) to whomever I was dating. During college, my mother told me that he had actually really disliked my middle/high school bf who I had dated for 4 years. Is it okay to mask your feelings about your child’s relationship? Yes. Is it okay to actively perform actions to subvert their partner without sharing those feelings? HELL no.
I had my first same-gender relationship at 15 after coming out as bi, and while the relationship only lasted a couple years I am still to this day bisexual. You aren’t “too young to know” at that age. 😑
Can’t remember the exact age I came out as ace but pretty sure it was younger than 15, I think it was around 13-14. My mom said I was too young to know that and I might grow out of it, and while my understanding of myself and my orientation has gotten more complicated and has changed over the years at 21 I still identify with the same label of asexual (with some slight additions/modifiers, I consider myself oriented aroace). People absolutely can experiment and use labels that will not stick, especially when they’re young and still figuring themselves out, but that doesn’t give people the right to discredit the feelings of kids or the labels they choose to use because they are not to young to know their orientation or too young to take their first steps towards discovering it.
literally doesn't even make sense, how is someone "too young to know" who they find attractive?! like if she was just walking down the street and saw another woman and was like "whoa she's hot" would the dad be like "oh you don't know that you think she's hot, you're too young"?
Agreed, I've had bi attraction going on as far back as when I was like, maybe 10 or 11 and I knew I was probably queer by 15 because I was wildly crushing on my friends of all genders throughout that year. 15 is plenty old to start to know that you're some sort of queer.
@@aceofspades8474 tbf as another asexual, asexuality is the one identity that someone could theoretically be "too young to know" since puberty has a major effect there. However, I think people worry too much about labels, if that's what they're comfortable with then it shouldn't matter if they're "too young" or not! As labels don't have to stick, if someone's asexual at 10, it doesn't mean they have to keep that label when they're 20, it's not a permanent thing as you point out
I find it strange how people basically think the mother won’t change, when she’s shown great strides of change so quickly People have no patience and are so judgy themselves She’s done well and has more to do, but praise her not belittle her
YES EXACTLY It's heartwarming that she's genuinely trying her best to become a better person for her son, people are getting stuck on things that she has acknowledged she's trying to improve on
I agree with you across-the-board. I suspect some of the response to OP 2 is from young people who don’t understand yet that there are times when acting ethically has to be subordinate to what is practically possible. She has no capacity right now to support herself, and clearly can’t move back home with her parents, because they’re even worse than her husband. it’s easy to think we know what other people should do when we’re not in their shoes.
Yeah, the harshness of a lot of the commenters on the second one felt very naive to me, like they came from people who hadn't had direct experience with power dynamics in relationships. And honestly I admire her responses, she agreed that she needed to work on things still but it was crystal clear that her TOP priority was becoming a good mother to her son, and she didn't get defensive even under some pretty harsh criticism.
For the first guy, even if someone is “just” going through a phase, the way to deal with it is not to act like they aren’t really going through that or to be dismissive of it. If you REALLY think something is a phase, help them through it without prejudice
And to the Second Lady.. I don’t think she’s homophobic. She doesn’t understand being gay simply because she doesn’t know what that feels like never had to think about it before. She’s not homophobic for using the f slur in that context either. You know how some people don’t want to come out because of their family? The son came out and yes, it was not a good experience for him, but he could leave. His mom is CHOOSING to go through that rejection herself for her son and ended up being rejected by her parents and husband (which a WAY bigger deal considering she’s financially trapped and her religious values) just so her son could have one parent who would still support him. She is amazing ♡
💛🥔 Re: Lesbian Mum post. I'm 33 & bi, to this day I feel nervous in LGBTQ+ spaces because I feel like others will think I'm not "queer enough". I can't even imagine having grown up with super sure, super established lesbian mothers as a nervously/still-learning bi/demi/pan etc chicklet. What checklist would suffice? Has she heard "they aren't really gay" about other people from her Mums? I'm very thankful for creators like Jamie & Shaaba because otherwise, I'd have little to no bi content on my feed. It's hard to feel valid when our whole section of the rainbow struggles to be seen as it is!
There are sadly a lot of people in the LGBTQAI+ community that think that bisexuals , Panesexualls etc. arent „Really Queer because they can have straight relasionships“ but always remember that we are and therefore have a right to go to these places. A lot of hate against bi, pan, etc and trans people acctually comes from the community itself. Its still something we need to work on to create a safe place for everyone❤
Second story: I am with you on this one. I think that mum sounds really loving! The love for her son clearly comes first which opened her eyes to her own homophobia. And the fact that she is standing up for her son, despite her husband being so outright homophobic and her parents cutting her off says a lot! It's never easy to unlearn things you were told your whole life! I am in my early 40s and it took me years of unlearning things my father taught me that were outright wrong. Those old thoughts just creep up on you and it's really hard to get rid of them. So way to go from that mum.
Honestly, those people in Reddit were being incredibly mean to the second mom. You can tell she has her heart in a good place, and it definitely takes some time to unlearn certain behaviors, especially when you have just started to break free from all of that stigma. Regarding the f-slur, I do understand how she didn't know it was a slur. I didn't know the n-word was a slur until someone told me it was and I looked into it. As someone who's not from USA, English is not my first language, and didn't grow up with many black people around me, I fully get not knowing a specific word is a slur. People need to cut some slack to people who are trying their best to unlearned bigotted behavior. It takes time.
@@alex_blue5802 I mean, to me it sounded like she's probably somewhere in the American bible belt, where a lot of this kind of stuff still flourishes. Her writing felt like she was a native speaker, and her speech patterns remind me a lot of the evangelical Christian women I grew up with in the Midwest.
For the second one: As someone from an incredibly queerphobic household, with incredibly homophobic extrended family and everything, being closeted because i just cannot safely come out, i know that they would never accept it, i have to stay hidden because they will either mentaly or maybe even physically abuse me in some way so seeing this woman trying to fix her views means the world. If my family, even just one of them tried to unlearn that, it would mean so so much more than being instantly accepted by other lgbt+ people. I, a gender nonconforming person still deal with my own internalised transphobia because of my surroundings, and the fact she had that for 36 years, and is trying her hardest to unlearn it is super commendable. Sure staying in contact with your child should be unquestionable but the sad truth is that it just doesnt happen sometimes, but she fought back against that even if it made things worse for herself. She is trying her hardest, and while there is a bit to unlearn and she might get things wrong, i think that what she is doing is much better and of course people will slip up if they are trying to unlearn things so deeply taught. Im just saying, if my queerphobic family tried to unlearn everything and is making the same effort as this woman here, it would mean so so much more than if another trans person came and accepted me from the get go. I am honestly so moved by what she is trying to do that i started getting emotional while you were talking about it Youre not being too sypathetic with her, j think the comments are being too harsh and this woman is doing amazingly for her situation. We can only try to do the best with what we have after all, and people might not be able to see the meaning behind that because they are in a completely different and maybe even better off situation Edit: I did not mean to go on a tangent, this is just kind of importabt for me
I am from the "Buckle of the Bible Belt in the Deep South & see homophobic people abandon their kids when they come out all the time. I agree 100% with what you have said & I am so sorry that you are not getting support from your own family. I am sending you a warm "mom-hug" - you are a wonderful, beautiful person, never forget that.
As a bisexual woman who grew up with supportive parents and an evangelical church, imo you are having EXACTLY the right amount of empathy for the second poster. It's so hard to do that complete cultural shift when you've been indoctrinated into believing something fundamentally harmful since you were a child, I'd say it's completely understandable that she slips up because of habit. She's on a steep learning curve and I am proud of her.
Thank you for coming at story 2 with the level of nuance that people on Reddit don't seem to have. It's obvious that op is stuck in a toxic/unhealthy relationship at least and an abusive one at worst. She is still making mistakes (like throwing the f- slur back) but she is learning and people need to be allowed to learn otherwise hateful/ignorant people will stay that way.
These people criticizing her so harshly sound like they live in a bubble of finacial priviledge and progressive ideas. I felt like I was listening to a bunch of edgy lefty 20 year-olds.
@@tunascimore like 15 year olds. I have experience. Black and white thinking because they’ve never had to spend a dime of their own money or live on their own yet
3rd story: We don't really know Bree. What we do know is she had a full ride scholarship to college because of her abilities in soccer; growing up, did she really want to play soccer at that level? My feeling as I listened to this, wasn't the mother being upset at Bree's sexuality, it was being upset that she believed Nala was now in control of her daughter, and she made the statement, "you're not even gay" as a way to regain control. If Nala were a guy, the mom's response probably would have been to invalidate his input because Bree had only known him two months. Best wishes for Bree, as she finds her way.
My mom tried telling me I was too young at 15 to know I was bi. But she never questioned the heterosexual relationships I was in at 14. It is 100% just homophobia/biphobia and has nothing to do with the teenager being too young.
Aw that mum really is trying her best and the fact that she even said her dms are open for anyone who needs support, even tho _she_ clearly has no support network being cut off for being a good parent and loving and accepting her son, really makes me emotional. Bless her heart, she clearly has love for her son and _true_ acceptance, even if she has a lot to learn and unlearn.
The first story immediately gets my hackles up because it literally doesn't matter if their feelings are real or not. They're teenagers. They're allowed to make experiences with love and affection and relationships. They're figuring out how to person, and this is a part of it. Makes me so mad, because this is often SO important for teens! Not just because they care about it themselves, but also because those early relationships shape a lot of how we navigate relationships later on! It's healthy to bonk into some common relationship walls as a teen so you can figure out how to deal with them going forward in life!
I really feel for the mom in the second story. I am a nonbinary person who lives with two non accepting parents. I have been told multiple times by my friends that I should “just move out”. But it’s not that simple. I am on the autism spectrum so my parents never bothered to teach me about any kind of financial things because they thought I’d never be able to do it on my own. I just recently graduated college but I haven’t found a job that fits my degree yet. I am wary of finding somewhere to live without knowing where I’m going to work because I know housing is expensive.
I hope it will get better for you! If you live in the Netherlands I can try to help you with finding a job or help you on your way to ask for housing or help. Let me know if I can help you! X
I'm autistic and when I was your age I felt so unprepared to move out and be responsible for myself. It takes us longer to mature than neurotypicals, especially if we haven't been encouraged to be independent. If you don't mind some advice/support (otherwise feel free to ignore) then I found reading a lot of financial literacy self help books really helped, along with having failsafes, like when you get a paycheck, having some money transferred automatically to a short terms savings (for fun things you want) and long term savings (for an emergency fund and to save for big things like bond for when you move out) so you are less likely to impulsively spend. Also know you're probably never going to feel fully ready to move out and be independent, a lot of this is just being brave (which you already are, living with non accepting parents makes people very brave) and doing it despite the fear. You've got this!
Exact same boat here: my parents raised me to be purely book-smart with no other living skills, hoping I'd become one of those Silicon Valley tech job types... sure, I'm in a fancy college program now, but chronic illness and lack of accommodations for ADHD and autism = no internships and full reliance upon my unaccepting family. Sending hugs and I wish you all the best!
Another thing that annoys me about the 'oh you have to be above (insert an arbitrary age) to know you're gay' people is that when their kids/people come out to them when they /are/ older they always are confused at how they 'suddenly turned gay' and that they weren't gay before so they can't be gay now.
i just happened upon your video- and I love your views on the second story. People on reddit are quick to hate on the mother when she obviously is trying to change. To her, it like living life being told the sky is green, and then finally being told its blue- IT HARD TO CHANGE! But she is trying! and I find that very respectful, and I actually find the people calling her an ahole for 1. staying with the husband 2. being homophobic prior to be complete asshole who do not understand life. Thank you for being patient and undertaanding her views, it was very sweet
Most relationships at age 15 are "just a phase" if you think about it. Would he also withhold a present from a straight partner? No of course he wouldn't
I came out as bi to my parents at 16, and they were VERY much like the dad in the first story. They tried to mask their disgust under the guise of "just a phase" or "you shouldn't be focusing on that right now; you're too young to know." They made it very clear they didn't like the idea of me being in a relationship that wasn't with a man. It's been three years since then, and I'm pansexual AND transmasc. Neither of them know, because I still remember that day when I told them. It's a scary experience just figuring yourself out (in my experience), and not having supportive parents makes it even worse. The daughter there WILL remember what her dad did because it's a sad reminder that he doesn't respect the way she feels. I do respect that it looks like he's at least TRYING to work through his bias, but it still looks like there's more to do. I really hope he recognizes the gravity of what he did, in all honesty.
I'm so sorry your parents let you down. I hope you have found a supportive chosen family, and that your parents think long and hard about what love really means. You deserve love and support. x
Ugh, my parents still think me being trans "is just a phase, you've barely had any time to consider it". Yeah, it's been over 8 years since I came out to them, pointing out they got married in less time than that does not go over well.
Agreed, even if the dad turns around ( which I don’t think he will) his hate WILL stick with her. My coming out was way worse and even though my mom did a complete 180 and fully supports me now I still remember that traumatic experience, I have forgiven her but I’ve not forgotten about it
For the second story, while I understand that homophobia is a horrible thing that we should almost never put up with, I genuinely think it is privileged of the people who commented to judge the mother. In her situation, I think that she forced one of the best possible outcomes even if it isn't great. We should hate homophobia, not people in situations like this.
I have a similar situation with my parents as Noa, I’m turning 17 next month and my girlfriend and I have been together for nearly 8 months now but my parents still treat me like a child and don’t think my relationship is “true love”
1st story: I already knew he's the AH from the beginning. Also I knew I was gay when I was 14. I wasn't in a relationship but I knew it was different from other guys. 2nd story: she's NTA she is trying that's good thing. Also screw that husband and her parents. 3rd story: I don't even have to read it. OP YTA. OK that got worse. My mom and my cousin said that I am not gay when I was 17. I said how the hell you know that more than myself. And I agree with Bree, OP is a mega AH.
I fully agree with you on the second one. By taking steps to support her son and doing this against her upbringing and the approval of close family members shows a lot of strength. It’s easy for me to be open-minded because I was raised that way. I commend her and hope she continues on her journey to being accepting and understanding the LGBTQ+ community.
In the last story, 1. The posters didn't matter, I had posters of the teenage mutant ninja turtles in my bedroom and that means nothing except for on some level I enjoy the show, same for the video game posters. 2. The daughter could be bi, but whatever she says she is, is what she is. 3. She may not want to continue soccer and is listening to her girlfriend who is trying to help her. 4. That annoying "she told her brother "it feels weird"" maybe this is her first relationship or first time kissing full stop.
@@bushybeardedbear😂 When I was about ten years old, my friends and I had a pretend game that we literally called “Ninja Turtle Boyfriends” where they were our boyfriends and we lived in the sewers with them and helped them fight crime. Donatello was always mine bc he was the nerdy smart one. 😆💜
Im so glad that you were so kind to the second mother. She is trying so hard and Im so very proud of her. The commenters that were being a-holes to her have a poor EQ.
On the mom with the gay son and homophobic husband - that kinda thing hits close to home for me. I and all my loved ones were raised religious conservatives. We can’t help how we’re raised. And I think people underestimate how hard it is to get out of that, both mentally and socially. It’s a self-protecting system designed to discourage doubt and dissent. I have so much respect and appreciation for my parents for reevaluating the views they held all their lives.
Story 1: 98% of that story is irrelevant. “Someone who is with my daughter a lot made her a bookmark. I didn’t give it to her. AITA?” Well yeah no DUH! The part about the homophobia just made it worse
"Am I the asshole for not giving a gift to its original receiver?" Most people really should do the head exercise to make everything gender neutral before posting Queerphobic bs. Will help avoid a lot of shame.
I wanted to add some comments for the 2nd story from my experience. My father was born in 1924, my mom was born 1949 - you already see, there's a huge age gap here. He was always abusive and manipulative to both my mom and me. I refused to talk to him/acknowledge him when I was 14 and he slapped me because I finally snapped back at his abuse. She eventually begged me to say "sorry", just so the peace would be back. I did it for her, but it's one of the few things in my life that I still regret. I went back to consider him air when I was 17, because I was fed up with him, and my mom this time agreed and stood her ground as well. I was already dreaming of moving away, but with her. The relationship with my mom was always close and dear and frankly, I wouldn't have been able to live alone from what I now know is severe ADHD issues and the deep depression and PTSD symptoms I had at that time. She was dreaming up houses with me, too, but there was always this little room that was supposed to be for my father left in these plans - rooms that neither of us drew bigger then a little storage closet, but still. She felt like she couldn't leave him alone because he was already so old, and that she had to bear through it, that she owed him somehow. It took her to open up to an outsider and her telling her "Take your kid and your dog and LEAVE" for her to finally snap out of it and find the resolve. We waited till I was 18 (so he wouldn't get visitation rights over me) and moved 500km away. I'm telling this because it's damn hard to just pack your things and leave if you're in an abusive marriage for such a long time. Especially when her family as well throws around with bible verses, she is probably still stuck in a mindset of being the property of her husband. Abuse can't be unlearned so quickly. That she's working on her homophobia is Incredible as it is, and should be honored, instead of blaming her not to be perfect within a second. And for the word thing... my mom still sometimes slips and uses the German version of the N-Word by accident, because she never learned it as a slur, but as a descriptive term without value. At the same time, she's in no way racist and openly fights back racism when she comes across it. And while I always remind her, I know it's hard for her to unlearn, because heck, that word was still used in descriptive manner when I was a young teenager! Because for many it was "just a word". We had sweets including the name! (that obviously has been stopped by now) But at these times, encountering a person of color was rare in our parts of Germany, too, so there wasn't much opportunity for her to relearn. So for this mom to never realize that the f-word was a slur - yeah, I totally get that! And I praise her for being so quick on the heel to learn not to use it!
3rd one, I would bet good money it goes like this: Mom is furious with girlfriend for derailing the college plan. Mom gets into an argument, doesn't think straight, only thinks about getting her daughter out of the relation. Screams that nonsense but doesn't know how to back down or to admit that's what she was doing even to herself. Searches, unconsciously , for things to back up her assertion, up come the posters. I've seen similar behaviors before, (eg child wants to drop out of college and hike across the world with lover = " You're ruining your future! You don't want to do it, you're doing it because of them" Then down the line "You never liked camping when you were 10"). It's just that it's about something much more important than the usual stuff and can cause much more hurt .
The second one made me cry. Being worried you are the asshole when you are doing everything you can to accept your child and embrace them. Poor woman, poor kiddo. If this is the family you reject as a person, you've lost the most. The Father is a fool to not understand this or regret it I hope the guilt and regret eats him so maybe his view shifts
You're not wrong about the second OP. And people being like, "Just leave." If she's from a serious fundie family, she might have been entirely homeschooled and married off as soon as she was of age. No job history. No skills. I'd like to see all these Redditors come back from that.
I think they're being harsh on her because she can leave if she wants to. She can pick skills up along the way and get a job elsewhere than that toxic place she's in
I think the mum in the second one definitely deserves sympathy. It's one thing to get out of your bubble and unlearn things, but when doing so means you have to sacrifice all your support, both financially and emotionally, it takes a lot of courage and it's that part that deserves to be acknowledged. I'm guessing she was brought up in a community with an expectation of "wife stays at home, husband bread winner and head of house" or thereabouts, and she really doesn't have much options beyond staying where she is or extreme poverty/homelessness. I hope her situation gets better, whether that be her husband coming round, or more likely get support from her son or some other outside organisation to get out and be able to support herself.
"You do realize that you're homophobic like him, right?" This is a similar mentality we see when people bring up Lovecraft. Like, yeah, he was INCREDIBLY racist. But he also got better and made an apology for being so hateful for so long and wished it happened sooner. And people seem to want a punching bag to hate rather than acknowledging that people can change, and it takes a long time to get there. She already said she's aware that she was homophobic from the start. She's clearly making an effort to change. And it was also clear that she used the slur later in the story to make a point against the husband. I don't think she still actually thought of her son that way.
@@jayfalcon-rw3qc He didn't. I just googled it, and according to Williamette Weekly, Utrecht University, and Canada's National Post newspaper, which, while being very right leaning at least factchecks itself reputably, Lovecraft never apologized for being a racist. He merely justified it by pretending it was an intellectual rather than a moral position. Thus 100% d-bag.
Honestly I appreciate the mom too, she's trying her best for her son in a situation that is not working in her favor. I actually feel bad for her, she's stuck and has no way to get out of it. Sadly reddit doesn't believe in redemption and you need to be absolutely perfect because otherwise you suck just as much as the more hurtful people in their eyes (just like in this case, where they say she sucks just as much as her husband because she's still not a perfect supporter). Tbh I kinda sympathize with her because I risked to go down a similar path too (luckily my older sibling and Steven Universe snapped me out of that mindset).
tried to come out when I was 14 as trans, family essentially "didn't believe me" in such a way that I instead BELIEVED THEM. And went back into the closet. It's been 8 years and I just started therapy and ABSOLUTELY it "sticks with you" 13:57 this for real. Oh my god that hit home.
Regarding the second mother, it's very easy from the outside to say homophobia is bad under all circumstances and to expect someone to turn it off like a tap, but if that's the way she was raised and it's been her environment for her entire adult life it's going to take time and effort to change her way of thinking. The most important thing she can do, and is doing, is to show a willingness to change and put in the active effort to do so. Change isn't instant. What I dearly wish for this lady is that she finds a way to carry on giving her son the love and support he deserves without being punished by the people around her. It sounds like she's trapped in her marriage and needs a way out. I hope she finds one.
Story 1: even if it was "just a phase" their daughter is figuring that out. Plus that was a sweet and innocent gift. Story 2: I live in a city that has a lot of blatant homophobia present so I appreciate that the Mom is at least trying to be unlearn what she's learn. Story 3: I think it's both that she's worried about how quickly her daughter is making big life changes after meeting her partner and that there's bi or pan phobia. Most of my crushes as a kid were male. Turns out what I found attractive in them are what I also find attractive in women and nonbinary folks. 😊
Why does that first guy even have to ask if he's the arsehole? It's incredibly obvious when even your wife gets horrified with your response, and you STILL have to turn to Reddit because you're "doubting"... Edit: I also wanted to react to the mom of the gay son. I definitely think she's NTA, and what a lot of younger people tend to forget, is that times and society was a lot different back then. The only "community representation" was in comedy. And everything was focused on "traditional family values". She's been indoctrinated by her time, and she's trying to break through it all. She sounds homophobic, because she never learned to be anything different...
From what I've seen, I think people who are definitely a-holes are often looking for confirmation from others on reddit. Like they actually expect the confirmation and not at all to be called the a-hole, because they are not looking for an unbiased vieuw on the situation. They just want to hear they were right
I love how patient and understanding you spoke about the mother with the homophobic past and family. Change can be really hard especially when there's so much influence in your life saying the opposite. A lot of the comments you read were indeed very harsh and the community should encourage positive chances and not belittle someone who is making an effort.
This is the first AITA reaction video I’ve seen from your channel, so glad I found it, I love hearing out your perspective and opinions. I’m going to go look up the podcast you mentioned too!
I’m all for celebrating people who are making a genuine effort. It’s incredibly hard to break out of old beliefs, and I think we should cheer on and encourage the people who are trying.
Been with my partner since I was 16. We're in our mid/late 30's now. Yeah.. op sucks. Also a sentiment that I find so important to remember is that the love they are feeling at 15 is the strongest feelings they've ever felt AT THAT POINT. Do I love my partner better, more completely now at 36? Yes, of course I do! We've had decades together to deepen our bond, grow and grow UP.. but that doesn't mean I didn't love him at 16! Dismissing and infantalizing your teenagers feelings will only serve to drive them away from you.
If we want people to change: we have to let them change. Patience has limits, and to each those limits may be different. Don't think it's a wrong-right kind of situation, more like a place in a healing journey.
As someone who grew up in a very homophobic church and had to unlearn a lot of stuff myself, I strongly empathize with the OP with a gay son and homophobic husband. The unlearning process is really difficult to go through, especially when so many people in your life stop supporting you because of it. Honestly, she’s handling her son being gay better than I handled figuring out I was LGBT+. I can tell she’s trying, and kudos to her for that. Yes, she has a long way to go, and she definitely should not have said that word, but I can tell her heart is in the right place. I hope things work out for her, her son, and his bf. NTA
For the last one, its really confusing but mostly i dont think her saying 'kissing her feels weird' is an hint for anything she could definitely be on the ace spectrum, or simply just not like kissing.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
That first dad has no problem calling someone else's 15yo a lesbian, but HIS little angel could never 🙃
HIS kid is too young to be a lesbian, but her same-age girlfriend is definitely a lesbian. 🙄
That's my mum in a nuttshell, she gets along wonderfully regardless of sexuality or gender and it comes quite natural. (Like she doesn't mess up pronouns, brought it up with her Spanish teacher how to translate that to her third language, LGBTQ+ support on social media, fake openess to me not being straight etc.)
Until I brought my then-girlfriend home for Christmas...
@@esmee6308 there's always a catch :/
@@esmee6308 yeah... "because you're not the problem, everyone else is" as my dad once said
That was my exact thought too
I have sympathy for the second mom, too. She grew up with poor values instilled in her, but was willing to drop those beliefs when they didn’t align with her love for her son.
We’re all learning and unlearning. Shit is hard.
Agreed. I also think we have to give people a chance to change if we want them to grow. Bigotry won't disappear overnight.
Well said
@@veiledowl1357my own mom is trying so hard. She's mormon. I doubt she's dropped her beliefs but she still tries hard to respect the pronouns of my friends and partners and myself. It's not as simple as anybody wants to say it should be.
I want her to not be mormon but cults are cults. She's old and it CAN be too late. But im happy she's trying at least.
Exactly! How can we hope for a better world if we don't allow people the space to change? She sounds like she is truly trying, and most people don't have the ability to change their situation overnight. If she was trying to change her son instead of her views, that would be a completely different situation.
I completely agree.
The woman with the homophobic husband is a traditional wife so she is trapped in her marriage with no support from outside of her family and church. She will be shunned and homeless if she leaves her husband. She has no safety net. I personally think she was very brave for standing up to her husband. Some of the commentators were way too hard on her. She is doing the best she can under her current circumstances. I hope she can find support to help her get out of her marriage.
Absolutely. Like even just getting the divorce would probably be very difficult if he controls the money because she wouldn't be able to get a lawyer. Getting a job would be a tough step because she had no experience so she'd likely have to hope that she can't get enough alimony to help support her in finding a job that pays well enough for her to be able to support herself. But then we go back to the lawyer issue. And we also don't know how the husband might respond to divorce since seems very “traditional” already. I hope she finds get way out or a miracle of humanity happens to the husband
I was a wife in that situation (minus children thankfully for that circumstance)
The only way I got out? I had a coworker that helped get me the 5000 to get put.
Honestly though? I've yet to actually "get on my feet" and be fully secure and independent. I was young then even, but the baggage from a situation like that is heavy LOTS. Unpacking that can take a very long time.
How about getting out of that entire community in general. Why would you be a trad wife in 2024
Definitely. She's in a terrible situation. Sometimes people are doing the best they can in a terrible situation. It's messed up that she bought into homophobia, but she's doing the work and that's what needs to happen. People don't deserve an award but at least a keep upp the good work!
I completely agree. She reminds me a lot of my mom, actually. My mom has been trying her best to be supportive of me, but struggles to understand that it’s not a choice. Even so, she still wants me to be happy. She’s just so stuck in thinking it’s a sin and that she’ll never see me in heaven.
I’m sure a lot of other Christian homophobic parents are in a similar position, just like that mother. The ones that don’t abandon their kids, but still struggle through dismantling their homophobia.
that mom unlearning her homophobia just made me cry. those people on reddit slamming her for staying married is just sad. they think divorce is this super simple thing. this woman sounds stuck in this marriage and is probably a victim herself. like damn, if we revile people who are trying to change then why would people bother to try to change?
Honestly the comeback of "Yes. You didn't raise a F*****. I did." Hits hard.
Yeah that was what i was thinking.
So cool.
It is cool, but I'm worried she's going to be divorced.
...That might be good, long-term. Short term it could be very rough.
I still feel that the mom was reclaiming the slur and therefore I’m actually proud of her…..or am I wrong???
@@Ivvyhcyou’re simply ahead of your time tbhhhhh
@@gracelessw.e I agree, I think only gay individuals can truly reclaim a slur of all things. I don't think non gay people can reclaim a slur that has so much weight and history behind it
The woman with a homophobic husband and gay son is not the arsehole, she's just going through her redemption arc, and it sounds like she's doing a good job of it.
i agree but if i undestood it right she is kinda becasue she said the f slur (pls correct me if i understood it wrong)
@@ash_g8st944 I think it's excusable in this case, given she's throwing his words back at him, but I totally understand why others would take a hardline _"You should never say that"_ stance.
@@PerovNigma imo it’s not excusable it’s still a slur that is used to Hurt people
@@ash_g8st944in the heat of the moment, especially since for 36 years she thought it was ok to use, I forgive her for that. When people are frustrated and being accused of ridiculous shit, you can lose your control.
@@cloudyskyz2237 I understand that she lost control but I still find she is kinda like a little bit on an asshole for that but that just my opinion
"Puppy love is still love to the puppy." I heard this when I was young and it still rings true. It's not adult love, it's not built to last yet, but the puppies are still in love and that's worth celebrating.
And it still is an important step in a child's development and helps them build social skills they'll need for more serious relationships later. Yes the father is just wrong on so many levels.
It's adjusting to the change of how they view and handle relationships. You don't have to date as a minor teen but when if you wait, you still go through those same stages once you're going onDates an starting to have actual romantic relationships. I say this as someone that didn't even go on my 1st date until I was 18.
I love this. I will be repeating it 💚
@@Insertia_Nameia I am so curious bc like. I didn’t go on any dates until I was like 19, after which i quickly realized I might be aromatic asexual. I thought I was a late bloomer for my whole teens but turned out I was no-bloomer lol. When you were a teen were you refraining from relationships or were you not interested then?
I am gonna have to remember this gem.
Even *IF* Noa's relationship is "just a phase", in this moment of Noa's life her feelings are genuine and should be respected. Even if she is still figuring herself out, she is feeling all the feelings right now. She is in love and for a supportive parent that should be all that matters.
Came here to say this! Even if it’s “just a phase” and Noa doesn’t end up dating women in the future, this is still a close relationship she has with someone right now and should be treated the way you would treat any other friend or date of hers.
ugh that story triggered past memories for me. a classmate of mine asked my friend if i was "faking being queer" (for attention??) and that i was "too young to know". i get that people take time to figure out prejudices and homophobia but omg it gets so exhausting to deal with from the other end. the guy grew up in a different generation but the daughter shouldn't have to deal with any of that. he's a major AH
Right. Imagine not passing on a gift from a friend. If that gift is a dead rat or something you know is a “gift” then it’s fine to not pass it along if it’s intended to hurt them.
Otherwise just pass it on.
THIS!! Phases shouldn't be treated as if they don't matter. it's all part of figuring out who you are
REAL
Not me actually tearing up when 2nd Mom said her DMs were open; she’s trying SO hard
Oh gosh, that mum unlearning her own homophobia, writing that reddit post while waiting for her son and his boyfriend made me cry. I hope she got/gets away from her husband - she deserves some peace and time to grow in her opinions.
Same, hormones are weird sometimes.
It made me cry too i really hope she doesnt get anymore backlash because she supports her son
LIGHTING PFP DETECTED! HUGE W HUMAN!
@@PuremindgamesANOTHER ONE AHHHHHHH
Both Lighting qnd Bayonetta made me question my gender from a young age ❤
Imagine his daughter was actually a “little kid” as described and he withheld a gift bookmark from his 7-year-old daughter because the gifter was her 7-year-old “girlfriend”. Like bro, at the very least these “little kids” are close friends, and why would you mess with their little gifts to each other? You, as a grown adult? Meddling with “little kid” romance? If she’s actually a little kid to you, this behaviour is so embarrassing.
So embarrassing
What kills me is everyone assumes that if you have Xfriend you MUST be dating, and if it is dating it MUST be sexual.
Is this why bigots don't have friends? Like, they don't want to admit their adult feelings or because they're not adult enough to admit that there's room for intimacy outside of touching no no squares?
Fucn "no-no squares" I'm dying omg XD @@OGimouse1
People, it's only legit if they are straight, not if they're gay or lesbian. /s
@@AjitAdonisManilal stfu this isn't the channel to be at,go watch ben shapiro or something like that if you wanna be an asshole and say that stuff
Responding to “you know you’re homophobic like him right?” With “I know, and I’m doing my best to be a better person” is one of the coolest things I’ve seen. A parent who can admit their mistakes and learn from them, and works to improve is an amazing parent. Kudos to her
I bet her son is amazing. And no thanks to his dad.
The contrast between the first and second story is striking:
1) "I have nothing against the LGBT-community, BUT..." Says all the "right things" until someone close comes out.
2) "I always saw being gay as sinful, but then my son came out..." Upholds the learned prejudices until someone close comes out - then chooses to support the loved one and change their own worldview.
I've seen both types of people, in discussions about homophobia, about racism, misogyny etc.
Quintessential example of the difference between being able to say the right things and actually doing the right things.
@@RenaRain That sums it up perfectly. And sometimes people say the wrong things but then do the right thing anyways.
@@RenaRain it’s a perfect example of someone who wants to play the victim, but is self-conscious enough to recognize that saying all the things that they actually think will get them in trouble while still being a piece of shit.
And someone who recognizes everything bad they’ve done and it doesn’t try to hide them, in order to grow into a better person for the sake of those around them.
each of my parents is one of those lmao. my mom says she doesnt hold anything against queer people, but that in the eyes of God its wrong and he'll change me, blah blah blah
my dad is kind of a conservative bigot but not religious. which is actually a hell of a lot easier to change, because they only have to wrestle with their own viewpoint and not feel like they are going against a higher power.
my coming out was enough to put a stop to almost all my dads queerphobia because he didnt want to hurt me. meanwhile my mom isnt openly hateful but has made it clear that she can never accept it as something that isnt wrong and doesnt need to be fixed
@@ashleyjohnson9651 Yeah, feeling like "I'm going against God's will" must be something rather big to overcome for religious people.
Still, I hope your mom eventually changes her mind. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. I'm glad that your dad at least realizes that it really isn't worth it to hurt his kid over some world view. Sheesh.
NEVER think you're being "too nice", people on the internet are just too mean and strict for some reason, especially when it comes to people who try to change, it kinda seems people forgot what redemption was and sympathy seems to be non-existent, it's sad really
Honestly they are way more judgemental than she could ever be. I think these kinds of people only hold their "morally good" positions out of the sheer luck of being born into them, and would be the most bigoted ones if the roles were reversed.
@@marzipancutter8144 yess exactly. I’m very thankful to have been born in an accepting household, I’m bi and my sister is trans, but my parents (specifically my mom) were raised in extremely conservative, Christian and homophobic households/environments. They were the ones to break the cycle, I don’t know if I would be the way I am today if they hadn’t carried the burden of breaking the cycle, actually, i’m pretty sure I wouldn’t. They still have thoughts do “deconstruct”, but I can’t blame them. With my grandparents from my mom’s side, it was even worse. They were extremely homophobic and transphobic until my cousin (their favorite grandson) came out as transgender, it was very difficult for them, but they are doing their best to change because they LOVE my cousin. It took years, but they are much much more accepting now. My sister came out as trans a few weeks ago, and they were so accepting and loving, so different from the time my cousin came out. They still have a lot of bigotry to work on, but i don’t think people realize how truly admirable it is to change SO MUCH after decades and decades of believing something completely opposite.
Btw sorry if the phrase “coming out” is wrong, i am not native and wasn’t sure how to say it correctly.
The second story has me straight up bawling, it is wild to me how little sympathy people have for those getting over literal brainwashing the mom is a real one 100%
Given that her parents cut her off for choosing to support her gay son, it's clear that mom was raised in a very intolerant home. Most people spend at least some time believing the same things as the people who raised them. She's making the effort to grow and learn. It's easy to stay in your bubble and keep believing what you've been told. It's hard to step away from what you've been taught your whole life. I personally think it's really sweet that she loves her son so truly and wholly that the moment he came out to her she accepted him and started trying to become better for him, despite the obvious external pressure to reject him. She's a good, loving mother who is trying to be there for her son and do what's best for him.
This is what makes that comment calling her just as bad as her husband is so heartbreaking to me.
It's a bookmark for God's sake, not a ring. If she was a friend and he wouldn't have an issue, or a boyfriend and wouldn't have an issue and the only issue is them being 2 girls in a relationship, then yes YTA and it is homophobia plain and simple.
Hes definitely giving strong "I accept the LGBTQ+ but I'd never want my own children to be one" bigot vibes. My mom is one as well as "I don't care so long as it's behind closed doors" type.
Bookmarks killed my pappy!
From his reaction you'd think she'd been gifted a strap-on.
Honestly people like that are just so tiring
Yep, also the 20+ thing? Definitely homophobia. You're old enough to sign up for $100,000 in debt, the military, own guns (at least in the US), buy alcohol(not in the US)...but not old enough to know who you are attracted to? No doubts whatsoever.
Jamie I resonate with your sympathy for the mum un-learning homophobia. She has made a start and offered an olive branch, which is more than many homophobes do. It doesn’t deserve a medal, but certainly a chance at redemption
Yeah, if someone is genuinely trying, if they're open to feedback and willing to unlearn their biases and change their behavior, they deserve some grace while they make those changes. Especially since her first reaction to her son coming out was acceptance.
I agree completely. She's clearly aware that she still has some way to go and she isn't trying to excuse her beliefs. Things are not going to get any better, if people who are trying, just get blamed for not moving fast enough. There is enough people, who are not even trying or acknowledging their bigotry, to call out.
It's too easy to judge people over the internet and tell them what they should do or be, but real life isn't quite that simple. I hope that the OP is safe and will get the support she needs, if she chooses to leave her husband, but right now she seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place and still doing her best to be a good mum.
If you have spent your whole life being told to think one way, it is very hard to unlearn thoughts and behaviors. She seems to be trying, but it might take some time
The fact that she's actually taking the time to un-learn this generational homophobia to understand her son instead of rejecting him like her husband shows she has empathy (and a brain) and willingness to change! Thats more than what I can say for the sperm donor
I don't understand how some people think that people get from homophobe or transphobe or whatever to fully supportive, accepting ally.
It's not a magic switch that they can press to suddenly unlearn their behaviour and change their language and attitudes: it takes time! It sounds like she's heading in the right direction and supporting her son and that's the most important thing.
"how'd she not know that was a slur?" I'm a bisexual trans man who grew up extremely conservative and thus came out later in life. When I went to college, I had no idea the "d slur" in reference to lesbians was a slur because it was used so casually around me, to the point where I called my college roommates girlfriend the d slur thinking that it meant "butch lesbian" and she had to explain that it was a slur. I was mortified. So I totally buy that she didn't know the f slur was a slur
What’s the D word?
@@acesinger6092 "a long wall or embankment built to prevent flooding from the sea." is a non-slur usage of the word if that helps.
I feel you. I once said something to some friends that ended up coming across as really racist but was said in ignorance. Fortunately they all knew me well and understood I did NOT mean to come off that way and I felt so awful when they explained what the issue was with what I said.
@@acesinger6092people are dancing around it- the word‘s „dyke“ (I am one, people, chill). Used as a slur for lesbians, but a lot of us have nuanced relationships with the world (eg. I use it to describe myself fairly often, I‘m chill about it, quite like using it tbh) but like. Obviously do not just call other people that etc etc standard slur ettiquette
@@tairneanaich There's something funny about the phrase "standard slur etiquette" and I can't quite put my finger on it.
The dad thinks she's a 'bad influence' yet he lets them hang around together and gives her a lift etc and is honoured to be trusted by her father to take care of her? He knows full well she isn't a bad influence on her, he's just a homophobe.
Imagine fumbling this hard over a
BOOK.
MARK.
For real. It's a bookmark, not an engagement ring.
SERIOUSLY I was expecting something super extravagant that signified the serious nature of the relationship (in which case it would still be unacceptable to deal with it this way! Obviously! But I could see how that would trigger the dad's unacknowledged prejudices). But a pretty bookmark! That's just a super sweet, thoughtful small gift! If that already makes him uncomfortable... Yikes
ACUALLY THO
“She’s a bad influence.” BRO she gifted a pretty book mark?? That is literally the opposite of what a bad influencer would do
IKR! If a lovely bookmark is a questionable gift from a "bad influence" to this guy, I wonder how he'd handle an actual bad influence coming into contact with his daughter. Considering his "solution" with the bookmark was to just put it out of sight and ignore it, I don't think he has the emotional maturity to handle other people's feelings and identity when they don't fit into what he deems acceptable and presentable. Rug sweeping is a really irritating character flaw.
The last one: I had a poster of a dinosaur as a young teenager. I guess I must be attracted to extinct reptiles. This explains why I’m single.
Haha I was about to say the same, I've always had lots of animal and nature related posters
(I'm also single btw)
How many gay boys have posters of Madonna or Beyonce?
I had a poster with meerkats as a child lol
I have a painting of a giant goldfish eating a planet. Am i attracted to cosmic horrors or fish?
I didn't really have any posters when I was younger. Guess *that's* why I'm ace
I laughed a little too hard at the comment of that person saying that Justin Bieber looks like half the lesbians they dated in college 💀💀
Especially with the pictures-
I mean it’s not wrong 😂 I thought he was a lesbian when I first heard his earlier love songs
@@_ksm0922 Yeah, I once said that I thought he sounded like a girl on some teen magazine website and they posted my comment in the magazine in a section about Justin Bieber's haters 😂😂
I think we all did with that one. He also looks like half the guys I've seen at any gas station I've ever been to.
I also love how Jamie went "yeah, I agree with this one" and I was like: is he just calling Justin bieber a lesbian?
You know, I never knew how it would be applicable to real life, but that second story actually reminds me of my favorite Skyrim quote of all things. "What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
I feels for that woman and I hope dearly that she is both able to get out of the situation she's in and that she is eventually able to completely unlearn her queerphobia.
Mum in second story needs love, compassion and help getting away from her abusive husband, not insults from keyboard warriors on reddit. I am an 18 year old bisexual girl myself and I have a lot of compassion for her. She’s trying, but she’s stuck in an abusive and controlling relationship and it’s really hard to leave those. Come on everyone, be nice!!! Jamie, you’re spot on with your sympathy for her.
Also she’s not very financially literate. If she left she could possibly end up homeless and destitute, as her family seems to be on the AH husbands side. Also he may get physically abusive if he knew she was trying to leave. It happens. There are many reasons why she may feel trapped.
We NEED to be sympathetic to the mom in the second story. People like her a redeemable and the only way we can get them on the right path is by showing them that we will accept them with open arms.
It's actually a common refrain among people who escape hate groups that they stuck in the group longer because they feared that regular society won't accept them after what they've said and done. It's our responsibility to show them that it's never too late to change.
I applaud her!
This is so important, if the minute someone starts changing themselves to let go of bigotry/hate whatever it was they are immediately told it doesn't matter you still suck for ever being that way and not being perfect immediately then it'll be no surprise when they get scared off and maybe decide that the Accepting crew are not so accepting after all. Even moreso when it's something that's been hammered in since birth and they're breaking a whole cycle.
Absolutely. I mean, if you don’t know better, how can you do better?
this exactly
Why does Reddit think divorce is so easy 💀 every damn time people always immediately say get a divorce like ??? It doesn’t work that way people are complicated with complicated relationships and feelings. You can love someone, even if it’s not good, you can’t really help it
the way reddit talks about divorce makes it sound like the average redditor has divorced 6 times
The mom saying Bree can't be gay because she liked Justin Beiber and other boy bands, just feels like my mom bringing up every excuse as to why I couldn't be trans. "You liked Barbie! And dress-up! And sparkly pink fashion games!" Yes... I had interests. Interests that don't necessarily mean anything about my gender or sexuality. I *also* liked monster trucks, figuring out puzzles and word games, and playing in the dirt... but none of those things were weaponized against me when I tried to express my identity. Hell, those things were largely overlooked entirely when I was growing up, because they didn't fit the narrative of Artistic Girly Girl that people pushed onto me. I *still* like fashion of all kinds. I loved the new Barbie movie and feel nostalgia for the old animated ones. I do drag, get dressed up in sparkly heels and flowing gowns. And I'm a boy. Bree's childhood interests don't mean anything about her current identity.
Yep. My parents think I can't be trans "because you were super girly as a child". Yeah, that "super girly" phase happens to coincide with the years my clothes were 99% hand-me-downs from my super girly cousins. Like yeah, when your only options are super girly and nude, you only have one option.
Heck, I've even had people tell me I can't be trans because I still think puppies and babies are cute.
@@waffles3629I’m sorry, WHAT the fuck do babies and puppies have to do with being trans. Humans are instinctually hardwired to think babies/baby animals because their eyes are too big for their faces. There was a study about it somewhere lol
Hell, my mum still thinks I can't be bloody AUTISTIC just because I talked early. Mums, amirite?
Good for you man.
And... Bree was at college on a soccer scholarship. Not conclusive, but leaning towards maybe Bree being gay.
Internalised homophobia really is the monster under the bed sometimes.
If the mother went through a bit of a questioning/dreading time she might not want her daughter to have that.
Compulsory heterosexualism aka comp-het can be a right head-fuck.
"Why can't we all just get along?" = "Why can't you just be invisible so I don't have to acknowledge how uncomfortable I am around you?"
with the last one
i understand OP being concerned with her daughter deciding to drop the subject that is funding her college tuition. like that isn't a smart move to make and when you hear its come from a new person (particularly a romantic partner, as i feel like it's natural to worry about abuse/manipulation when a new romantic partner is suggesting a potentially life altering decision) then i understand going "whoa, hold on, you need to think about this. this is serious."
but what that has to do with sexuality i have no idea. it wasnt even part of the convo
Why is it such a persistent idea that someone can just break up with someone who they've been dependent on for years? There are living and financial and Healthcare issues that could leave someone in a trapped relationship. "Just leave" is garbage from strangers on the internet.
Agreed, especially in a US-context. It might be easier to leave a marriage in other places, but particularly in the USA if you've been a housewife for decades you're just not going to find a job or housing. Doesn't matter if you get half in the divorce, if you can even afford a lawyer for that. You'd be homeless until then and have no way to support yourself afterwards either... It's just a really awful situation for OP (and especially her son)
I think most of the people saying things like that are rather young and have not been in a situation like that before. I really felt bad for her, because when I was in an abusive relationship and financially reliant on my ex-husband, I could only leave because of the support of my mum; I went to live with her while I got back on my feet. It was a struggle only with a two year gap on my CV to find a permanent job and move out again. Well, this woman's mother and father have disowned her for not being a homophobe. She's probably been a housewife for nearly 20 years, leaving a massive gap on her CV, and now all of the most important people in her life besides her kids have told her to go fuck herself. And she is still trying to do the best for her son. I hope she can get the support of someone, friends or charities, to be able to leave and become independent if she decides to.
@@cgg2621 I'm so glad you had your mom's support and got out.
A lot of us would leave someone for less, that's why we can't relate. This is a very substantial reason to leave.
@wav3rid3r even if leaving would uproot you from a home you've been in for decades and you have nowhere to go?
People on reddit tend to leap to leaving partners, as if alternate housing, money and personal safety are no object. I'm with you, Jamie, that Mum has a lot of conditioning to unlearn and a long way to go, and I have a lot of empathy for the situation she's in. It reads as though there's more than homophobia wrong in that family and it might be that she's in a place where she can't simply drop the husband, the home, the food security and financial security in one fell swoop. Reddit also likes to tell people to "get their ducks in a row" before instigating divorce proceedings, so it might just be that behind the scenes, her ducks aren't so easy to line up.
If anything she's stuck in a straight up abusive situation.
@@AnodicCasserolei think ur right, mom is stuck and her AH husband sounds authoritarian, stubborn, self-righteous and likely abusive. my heart goes out to her, she is in a tough situation and still trying to unlearn bigotry and stay in contact with her son-
I agree, a lot of what she said made me very concerned for how the husband is treating her; She's expected to explain herself for going out in a nice dress and gets yelled at when he doesn't agree with where she's going (and she's in the habit of justifying his behavior by saying her actions caused him to be suspicious, placating him by choosing a simpler outfit, and let's not forget her original question was if she was an A-hole for standing up to him). She says she's bad at money but rather than help her learn, the husband just controls all the finances, ensuring she can't gain financial freedom from him. Also, I question if she really is bad with money vs just been gaslit to think that she is. My mom was also convinced she was too bad with money to survive on her own (and also married and had her first kid while still a teenager). She now runs a successful business, and it turns out my ex-father was just blaming her for his own bad financial decisions.
But even when you have a ton of support (which this mom has stated she does not) divorce is a messy, drawn-out, expensive process. For three years my mom had to live with my older sibling because all of her money was going toward's legal fees on top of the medical expenses she already had for her poor health. I can't imagine her trying to do all that while also homeless with no support.
@@AnodicCasserole Unhealthy definitely, and if he keeps yelling at her then I'd agree, but from current information I wouldn't say abusive.
@@Ravivkit - im so glad your mom is safe and thriving on her own!! Abusive people will isolate their partners from loved ones, keep them financially dependent, undermine their self esteem and self worth to make sure they stay. People dont realize how hard it is to get out of these kind of relationships- sounds like you already knew all that tho❤️
I love that you refer to him as your ‘ex-father’!
I totally agree with you about that second one. I feel like people tend to forget just how much someone's upbringing and environment can shape their views. What matters most is that when her son came out, she did her best to support him despite her learned biases. And yes I agree that ideally the most moral thing to do would be to divorce the homophobic father, but not everyone's circumstances are so cut and dry. It's wild to me how many people in the post were just berating her about things she was clearly trying to do better with. Like what's the point, do we want people to learn or just stop existing? There's a huge difference from someone who's trying to learn but had a problematic upbringing, and someone who's been given endless second chances and still chooses to be a bigot.
Except she's only 36 and acting like she's an elderly woman who couldn't possibly be asked to take care of herself.
@@elaexplorer she is 47 and even if she was 36, what do you know? We cannot assume what other factors play into that kind of thought. One of it could be culture, it might even be some kind of disability she just didnt feel the need to mention. A lot of that might just also be the conditioning from her own parents. There is a lot we dont know. I say we shouldnt judge when we dont know the reasons for something, and we shouldnt have to even know the reasons for something
I think she also deserves credit for knowing that she has more growth to do. A lot of people would say "well I've accepted you, isnt that enough?", but she is actively working to keep getting better
@@elaexplorer Have you ever heard of financial abuse? Have you ever had to get a job as a woman without prior experience? It's hard. It's not as easy as leaving. Expecially when you have no where to go and no one to help. Maybe her son might help, but the longer a relationship, the harder it is to leave.
Listening to the story I believe she was probably raised by a misogynistic society as well. She may have been a "stay at home mother" from the moment she left high school for all we know. Did she say something like 36 years? To have an adult son she would have had to have had him at 18! So she may never have held a job and that would be terrifying for her! I bet it may well be her son who ends up helping HER escape. I am so glad they have each other! (either she was 36 years old or married to the guy for 36 years. Either way, starting over would not be easy for her without support from somewhere. She mentions her parents are still alive, so I think she's 36 and married and had a kid straight out of high school!)
Third story: I feel like with one move she has screwed up years of 'letting our daughter know she will be accepted.' Because now her lived experience shows her that she won't be accepted because, what? She didn't come out when her mothers expected her to? She didn't go about it how they went about it?
I think your view on the second story is exactly right. It's easy to just get mad at people who are making slow progress in acceptance, but it's so important to recognize that they're trying. It's 1000 times better to recognize that a viewpoint you grew up on was wrong and take some years to unlearn it than to stubbornly hold onto a wrong belief just because it's harder to change.
As a 40-something bi, that third mom immediately gave me vibes of the lesbians I knew in college who wouldn't date people like me because we weren't "really gay." Like girl, leave the Gold Star nonsense back where it belongs, 20 years in the past.
This will not do see to it that that which will not do won't do and will never
Ugh, had some similar experiences on dating apps :S No matter how many women you've dated, if you dare breathe in the general vicinity of a man, then you're just a confused straight woman who needs to be put in her place. Also, you must have figured your orientation 100% out by the time you're fifteen, or else.
the whole "gold/platinum starring" is so weird to me, like the creeps that put being a virgin on some fetishized pedestal.
Yes, same! Like the vibes of "your sexuality isn't valid because MINE developed differently and is more 'intense'"(?) is just a wild perspective.
Yeah the biphobia is strong with that one. Lesbians internationalizing purity culture 💀 like work on your own comphet and don't police other women fr
The second OP sounds like a great mum actually, she's doing her best for her son and she's listening to him and willing to learn, I think there's something inspiring about people just trying to be better people, and she's standing up for her son and thats the most important part
I agree. I salute her.
We support character development. Great mom for clearly trying to understand and be supportive.
Yeah she's trying! And she's in an objectively abusive relationship that she doesn't have the resources to leave. She wants to do right by her kid and I think that she is on her way to being an ally.
What she needs, is support so she can leave the asshole safely and quickly.
28:55 can you go back 30 years I was absolutely fucking trans phobic and homophobic asshole. Now I am out as a bisexual myself. And my kids are both non-binary my daughters are also bisexual.
I am totally happy to give room for someone who is trying because how else are they going to learn and if all we do is yell at them for not having been an ally all along, they're just gonna feel like LGBTQ community are totally jerks and that it's reasonable to be homophobic.
I think people like her who are willing to listen and learn yet come from a bad place originally are often better than those who never had that issue to begin with but are unwilling to listen or learn... Better to have someone willing to change than someone who is unwilling to change even if their opinions may be correct
Re second story and Jamie's questioning whether he is being too sympathetic
Jamie, I think you are completely correct. My impression reading between the lines is this is probably a family in the fundamentalist Christian community in the US. The mother is probably a tradwife who grew up being told that, as a girl, she is second-class and worthless, that the father and then the husband is the leader of the household and she must just submit. And likely she was home-schooled as well and has no employable skills
Jamie, please continue to be kind in your thoughts and approach towards other people. That is one of your superpowers!
Agree 100%. Maybe not fundamentalist, but maybe “traditional” conservative Christian.
Imo, the husband sounds emotionally and financially abusive. If he was so good at handling the funds and finances, why did he miss EVERYTHING to be at work? Sounds like a dad that thought his only role was the leader and breadwinner. She even showed signs of negative self talk that is instilled in purity culture, traditional family conservative Christians/fundamentalist. It sounds like she may be a bit trapped because of financial control and eroded self esteem.
I have sympathy for her. She’s trying, and her heart is in the right place. Hopefully she does not have to choose between her husband and her son because it doesn’t sound like she’ll be able to be alone easily, especially since she’s surrounded by bigoted friends and family.
Edit: I went to the source post. She lives in Israel. She was raised as an Orthodox Jew. Her husband, who is Dati-Christian, paid a dowry to her parents in order to marry her. Not sure what religion she practices now, but that’s the known circumstances. Not conservative Christian, but honestly a lot of orthodox/conservative abrahamic religions treat women in the same fashion.
100%. She sounds like she was raised with these beliefs and her husband and family sound controlling as hell. I’m happy she’s trying, and it’s brave to take steps knowing that you could lose your entire support structure, even if that structure is hyper-controlling, bigoted, and emotionally abusive. The will to grow is the first steep in a long journey.
This is my impression too. Deconstruction, whatever it is about, isn't an easy journey: you'll inevitably fall back sometimes until you fully build yourself back. It can be a years-long process.
She is undoubtedly from a multi generational fundamental christian family, probably with acquaintances that are only with that same mindset, especially if she is socially isolated from anyone that isn't in the inner circle of her husband or their church as it is often true for tradwife. She never was exposed to anything outside her bubble and it will be a hard path to change her decade long reflexes ingrained since her own birth.
@@rachelann9362I agree! As a lesbian who grew up with a father who was emotionally just horrible overall, I know how hard it is to distance yourself from that. I wish the best for her and her son honestly.
Yes i absolutely agree. Kindness und understanding is almost never wrong and can help alot, especially in these situations. Being unforgiving of mistakes can harden the discourse (even though it is understandable on an emotional note) while really trying to consider the background and supporting the steps already gone in the right direction is more constructive. People generally react better to change when they feel supported and are encouraged, instead of being talked down on. So while it still depends onthe situation - as it always does- i think Jamie is absolutely right here and i felt like some of the comments were a little too harsh (for my liking), even though i understand where they come from.
My thing with that first one is like, What if Noa really needed a bookmark and Laura promised her one? Then Noa doesn't get it, and thinks Laura forgot. That damages Noa's trust, even if it isn't Laura's fault.
I don't think it really should come up to ask if someone's relationship is 'legitimate' or their love is 'real'. Especially when they're just starting out. Give them some breathing room, they're teenagers, they've got it rough already, damn.
As a bonus, he doesn't have to worry about Noa getting pregnant 😏
US AF Lt. Col. is United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel.
I’m a 43 year old trans nb biromantic lesbian, and it definitely wasn’t a phase, dad.
ETA, 2nd story: before judging the mom, let’s do some math. She’s 36 with an 18 (I assume) year old, which means she’s been with this man since she was a teenager. She’s fully dependent. The fact that she’s going against her husband says a lot to me. Definitely NTA.
Damn I only have collected three letters of the queer alphabet and you have four. I better step up my game. JK
@@Stachelbeeerchen only three? Amateur numbers 🤣
She's 48 actually, mentions it in the first line of the post, and her son is 23. She had him around 25. Rest of it stands though
@@malter95 oh, ok. She kept saying that she’d been homophobic for 36 years, so I assumed she was 36. The fact that she’s in her 40s makes me even more empathetic, and even more impressed that she’s making the effort to change. I rarely see that from my generation. Gen X is basically Boomer Lite.
Hey, I don't wanna sound rude, but I had the question for a while... What does nonbinary lesbian mean? Lesbian is usually said when talking about girls and nonbinary people aren't girls, they are enby, right? I just really want to know what exactly that stands for to avoid misunderstandings
The crab doesn’t support homophobia.
Thank you once more crab mesiah, *very cool 👍*
Thank you
Thanks, The Crab!
Thank Crab, very cool
I love u crab ❤❤
With the first one, if she said nothing and then came out at 20 he’d say it’s not valid because it’s sudden and she’d have surely known sooner. There’s no winning. Same way that trans kids are told they’re too young to know but then when they’re older and coming out suddenly it’s too late they should’ve known sooner and there weren’t enough signs.
I came out us aro with 23 and as bi and poly with 25. Unsave environments and self hate due to it does that to Queer folks I have figured out.
This. When I was 17 and my sister was 15 she came out as bi and my Mom told her she was too young to know and that it was just a phase.
At 21 I told my mom I had a boyfriend. She goes "are you sure... This is all too sudden. I think you are confused" and then proceeded to explain how friendship works to me.
And my Mom wonders why her relationship with both her adult children is strained.
Yep, you're "too young" right up until "you aren't otherwise you'd have known years ago".
Literally! I hate when people say teenagers are too young to know their sexuality/gender, like that’s literally THE time when you really start figuring that stuff out because of hormones and puberty
I didn’t realize I was bi until I was 17 and by then I felt embarrassed because I grew up in a pretty supportive environment and thought I should have known by now. But when something is so consistently presented as the norm to you, it can be really easy not to question it! It’s not less valid to figure things out later, but of course that doesn’t mean that some teens aren’t already right about their sexuality/gender! Identity is something you spend your entire life chasing, mapping, and building yourself; not every brick is laid at the same time
24:51 she used HIS words against him, she didn't mean it in a derogatory way. She's a wonderful person, I hope she's able to be free from that awful man.
The second mom isn’t a bad person she’s trying her hardest in a very difficult situation 😢❤❤
15 year old: I’m gay
Homophobe: You’re too young to know
*A toddler boy plays with a toddler girl*
Homophobe: Aww, look at them. They’re boyfriend and girlfriend.
I once saw a toddler with a shirt that said “Mr. Steal Your Girl” 💀
@@chuuislovechuuislife ew.
my mom honestly said I probably a lesbian when I was 9
When I tell you that my cousins did this. It's so goddam gross especially because the ones they called "boyfriend and girlfriend" had a huge age gap and was cousins!!
68yo gay male here - I had girl friends pre-school, they were the daughters of my mother's friends. At that age, of course, it didn't matter, and being gay wasn't something anyone ever talked about. I had to discover and deal with my sexuality the hard way - trial and error. Some role models would have been helpful, but when I was growing up, they didn't even exist.
i just wanna add to the last one: just cause someone has posters of someone doesn’t mean they’re attracted to them, they could just like their music/the media they’re from. i have multiple posters and prints of male characters from shows i watch, doesn’t make me any less lesbian
Literally though, that’s why I was so confused when Jamie was talking about how she could be bi because I was still arguing that the posters could just be…posters? None of my posters with people on them have been because I’m attracted to them lmao
I had posters of animals. And I'm definitely not attracted to eagles, or penguins etc... You can like something, without being sexually or romantically attracted to it.
And you can also be bi/pansexual (but please leave the animals alone).
Exactly! Like, I have a poster of Sonic the Hedgehog on the wall. It doesn’t mean I have a crush on Sonic.
But also, this argument never appear in reverse situation - if a girl have a lot of posters of Barbie, female singers and female characters from tv etc. no one really says ,,She have do many women on posters, she have to be a lesbian", but when a girl have a boysband poster - ,,she definitively have cruch on them" 🙃🙃🙃
You are not allowed to just like a band or character from tv if it's of the opposite gender, you HAVE TO have romantic/sexual feelings about them, because why else would you have their poster then?
@@Nic0Dr4wsBoth could be true!! I think Jamie could just be trying not to put the kid in a box. Maybe she had a crush, maybe she was interested in the music, but either way, that doesn’t reflect on her attraction to women.
The woman with the openly hateful husband is what a friend once described as "A recovering Homophobe" She's actively trying to change, but old habits are hard to break.
And she is ntah in that situation.
Deconstruction takes many yrs. It's not an easy prospect. Especially when you're tired to someone that will fight you every step of your journey through it and will berate and hurt you for it at every turn.
@@Insertia_Nameia Absolutely. But on the flip side, not trying because "I'm too old to change." is an excuse to be lazy about it.
@@danieltilson4053 Where did you get the "I'm too old to change" vibe from?
Thank you for clarifying and acknowledging how someone can’t always leave a relationship the moment they find out their partner has awful views on something.
My father was always really wonderful to me, and that extended (to a lesser extent, of course) to whomever I was dating. During college, my mother told me that he had actually really disliked my middle/high school bf who I had dated for 4 years.
Is it okay to mask your feelings about your child’s relationship? Yes.
Is it okay to actively perform actions to subvert their partner without sharing those feelings? HELL no.
I had my first same-gender relationship at 15 after coming out as bi, and while the relationship only lasted a couple years I am still to this day bisexual. You aren’t “too young to know” at that age. 😑
Yep! I had thoughts about it as young as 10, definitely knew by 14/15. 37 now and still queer!
Can’t remember the exact age I came out as ace but pretty sure it was younger than 15, I think it was around 13-14. My mom said I was too young to know that and I might grow out of it, and while my understanding of myself and my orientation has gotten more complicated and has changed over the years at 21 I still identify with the same label of asexual (with some slight additions/modifiers, I consider myself oriented aroace). People absolutely can experiment and use labels that will not stick, especially when they’re young and still figuring themselves out, but that doesn’t give people the right to discredit the feelings of kids or the labels they choose to use because they are not to young to know their orientation or too young to take their first steps towards discovering it.
literally doesn't even make sense, how is someone "too young to know" who they find attractive?! like if she was just walking down the street and saw another woman and was like "whoa she's hot" would the dad be like "oh you don't know that you think she's hot, you're too young"?
Agreed, I've had bi attraction going on as far back as when I was like, maybe 10 or 11 and I knew I was probably queer by 15 because I was wildly crushing on my friends of all genders throughout that year. 15 is plenty old to start to know that you're some sort of queer.
@@aceofspades8474 tbf as another asexual, asexuality is the one identity that someone could theoretically be "too young to know" since puberty has a major effect there. However, I think people worry too much about labels, if that's what they're comfortable with then it shouldn't matter if they're "too young" or not! As labels don't have to stick, if someone's asexual at 10, it doesn't mean they have to keep that label when they're 20, it's not a permanent thing as you point out
I find it strange how people basically think the mother won’t change, when she’s shown great strides of change so quickly
People have no patience and are so judgy themselves
She’s done well and has more to do, but praise her not belittle her
YES EXACTLY
It's heartwarming that she's genuinely trying her best to become a better person for her son, people are getting stuck on things that she has acknowledged she's trying to improve on
I agree with you across-the-board.
I suspect some of the response to OP 2 is from young people who don’t understand yet that there are times when acting ethically has to be subordinate to what is practically possible. She has no capacity right now to support herself, and clearly can’t move back home with her parents, because they’re even worse than her husband. it’s easy to think we know what other people should do when we’re not in their shoes.
Yeah, the harshness of a lot of the commenters on the second one felt very naive to me, like they came from people who hadn't had direct experience with power dynamics in relationships. And honestly I admire her responses, she agreed that she needed to work on things still but it was crystal clear that her TOP priority was becoming a good mother to her son, and she didn't get defensive even under some pretty harsh criticism.
For the first guy, even if someone is “just” going through a phase, the way to deal with it is not to act like they aren’t really going through that or to be dismissive of it. If you REALLY think something is a phase, help them through it without prejudice
And to the Second Lady.. I don’t think she’s homophobic. She doesn’t understand being gay simply because she doesn’t know what that feels like never had to think about it before. She’s not homophobic for using the f slur in that context either. You know how some people don’t want to come out because of their family? The son came out and yes, it was not a good experience for him, but he could leave. His mom is CHOOSING to go through that rejection herself for her son and ended up being rejected by her parents and husband (which a WAY bigger deal considering she’s financially trapped and her religious values) just so her son could have one parent who would still support him. She is amazing ♡
💛🥔
Re: Lesbian Mum post.
I'm 33 & bi, to this day I feel nervous in LGBTQ+ spaces because I feel like others will think I'm not "queer enough". I can't even imagine having grown up with super sure, super established lesbian mothers as a nervously/still-learning bi/demi/pan etc chicklet.
What checklist would suffice? Has she heard "they aren't really gay" about other people from her Mums?
I'm very thankful for creators like Jamie & Shaaba because otherwise, I'd have little to no bi content on my feed.
It's hard to feel valid when our whole section of the rainbow struggles to be seen as it is!
There are sadly a lot of people in the LGBTQAI+ community that think that bisexuals , Panesexualls etc. arent „Really Queer because they can have straight relasionships“ but always remember that we are and therefore have a right to go to these places. A lot of hate against bi, pan, etc and trans people acctually comes from the community itself. Its still something we need to work on to create a safe place for everyone❤
Second story: I am with you on this one. I think that mum sounds really loving! The love for her son clearly comes first which opened her eyes to her own homophobia. And the fact that she is standing up for her son, despite her husband being so outright homophobic and her parents cutting her off says a lot!
It's never easy to unlearn things you were told your whole life! I am in my early 40s and it took me years of unlearning things my father taught me that were outright wrong. Those old thoughts just creep up on you and it's really hard to get rid of them.
So way to go from that mum.
Honestly, those people in Reddit were being incredibly mean to the second mom. You can tell she has her heart in a good place, and it definitely takes some time to unlearn certain behaviors, especially when you have just started to break free from all of that stigma.
Regarding the f-slur, I do understand how she didn't know it was a slur. I didn't know the n-word was a slur until someone told me it was and I looked into it. As someone who's not from USA, English is not my first language, and didn't grow up with many black people around me, I fully get not knowing a specific word is a slur.
People need to cut some slack to people who are trying their best to unlearned bigotted behavior. It takes time.
Sounds like she is from another country as well so we shouldn't assume she has a perfect knowledge of American culture
@@alex_blue5802 I mean, to me it sounded like she's probably somewhere in the American bible belt, where a lot of this kind of stuff still flourishes. Her writing felt like she was a native speaker, and her speech patterns remind me a lot of the evangelical Christian women I grew up with in the Midwest.
@@DarthRayj another poster said they looked up the original story and she is from Israel.
@@alex_blue5802 I stand corrected! Thanks
For the second one:
As someone from an incredibly queerphobic household, with incredibly homophobic extrended family and everything, being closeted because i just cannot safely come out, i know that they would never accept it, i have to stay hidden because they will either mentaly or maybe even physically abuse me in some way so seeing this woman trying to fix her views means the world.
If my family, even just one of them tried to unlearn that, it would mean so so much more than being instantly accepted by other lgbt+ people.
I, a gender nonconforming person still deal with my own internalised transphobia because of my surroundings, and the fact she had that for 36 years, and is trying her hardest to unlearn it is super commendable.
Sure staying in contact with your child should be unquestionable but the sad truth is that it just doesnt happen sometimes, but she fought back against that even if it made things worse for herself.
She is trying her hardest, and while there is a bit to unlearn and she might get things wrong, i think that what she is doing is much better and of course people will slip up if they are trying to unlearn things so deeply taught.
Im just saying, if my queerphobic family tried to unlearn everything and is making the same effort as this woman here, it would mean so so much more than if another trans person came and accepted me from the get go. I am honestly so moved by what she is trying to do that i started getting emotional while you were talking about it
Youre not being too sypathetic with her, j think the comments are being too harsh and this woman is doing amazingly for her situation. We can only try to do the best with what we have after all, and people might not be able to see the meaning behind that because they are in a completely different and maybe even better off situation
Edit: I did not mean to go on a tangent, this is just kind of importabt for me
I am from the "Buckle of the Bible Belt in the Deep South & see homophobic people abandon their kids when they come out all the time. I agree 100% with what you have said & I am so sorry that you are not getting support from your own family. I am sending you a warm "mom-hug" - you are a wonderful, beautiful person, never forget that.
I'm in a similar boat as you, but I was able to separate myself from it
🫂 Thank you for sharing - I wouldn’t even call it a tangent, seems right on topic to me. I really hope your situation gets better!🤞❣️
Also sending mom hugs!
I really hope that life goes well for you
He called her 15 year old girlfriend a lesbian, but he thinks his 15 year old daughter is too young to know she's a lesbian?
As a bisexual woman who grew up with supportive parents and an evangelical church, imo you are having EXACTLY the right amount of empathy for the second poster. It's so hard to do that complete cultural shift when you've been indoctrinated into believing something fundamentally harmful since you were a child, I'd say it's completely understandable that she slips up because of habit. She's on a steep learning curve and I am proud of her.
Thank you for coming at story 2 with the level of nuance that people on Reddit don't seem to have. It's obvious that op is stuck in a toxic/unhealthy relationship at least and an abusive one at worst. She is still making mistakes (like throwing the f- slur back) but she is learning and people need to be allowed to learn otherwise hateful/ignorant people will stay that way.
These people criticizing her so harshly sound like they live in a bubble of finacial priviledge and progressive ideas. I felt like I was listening to a bunch of edgy lefty 20 year-olds.
@@tunasciyou probably were lol
@@tunascimore like 15 year olds. I have experience. Black and white thinking because they’ve never had to spend a dime of their own money or live on their own yet
3rd story: We don't really know Bree. What we do know is she had a full ride scholarship to college because of her abilities in soccer; growing up, did she really want to play soccer at that level? My feeling as I listened to this, wasn't the mother being upset at Bree's sexuality, it was being upset that she believed Nala was now in control of her daughter, and she made the statement, "you're not even gay" as a way to regain control. If Nala were a guy, the mom's response probably would have been to invalidate his input because Bree had only known him two months. Best wishes for Bree, as she finds her way.
Ooooh yeah this exactly
My mom tried telling me I was too young at 15 to know I was bi. But she never questioned the heterosexual relationships I was in at 14.
It is 100% just homophobia/biphobia and has nothing to do with the teenager being too young.
Aw that mum really is trying her best and the fact that she even said her dms are open for anyone who needs support, even tho _she_ clearly has no support network being cut off for being a good parent and loving and accepting her son, really makes me emotional. Bless her heart, she clearly has love for her son and _true_ acceptance, even if she has a lot to learn and unlearn.
The first story immediately gets my hackles up because it literally doesn't matter if their feelings are real or not. They're teenagers. They're allowed to make experiences with love and affection and relationships. They're figuring out how to person, and this is a part of it. Makes me so mad, because this is often SO important for teens! Not just because they care about it themselves, but also because those early relationships shape a lot of how we navigate relationships later on! It's healthy to bonk into some common relationship walls as a teen so you can figure out how to deal with them going forward in life!
Noa's dad is probably the kind of "stay away from boys, all they want is one thing" but then is mad that his daughter is dating a girl
I really feel for the mom in the second story. I am a nonbinary person who lives with two non accepting parents. I have been told multiple times by my friends that I should “just move out”. But it’s not that simple. I am on the autism spectrum so my parents never bothered to teach me about any kind of financial things because they thought I’d never be able to do it on my own. I just recently graduated college but I haven’t found a job that fits my degree yet. I am wary of finding somewhere to live without knowing where I’m going to work because I know housing is expensive.
I hope it will get better for you! If you live in the Netherlands I can try to help you with finding a job or help you on your way to ask for housing or help.
Let me know if I can help you! X
I'm autistic and when I was your age I felt so unprepared to move out and be responsible for myself. It takes us longer to mature than neurotypicals, especially if we haven't been encouraged to be independent. If you don't mind some advice/support (otherwise feel free to ignore) then I found reading a lot of financial literacy self help books really helped, along with having failsafes, like when you get a paycheck, having some money transferred automatically to a short terms savings (for fun things you want) and long term savings (for an emergency fund and to save for big things like bond for when you move out) so you are less likely to impulsively spend. Also know you're probably never going to feel fully ready to move out and be independent, a lot of this is just being brave (which you already are, living with non accepting parents makes people very brave) and doing it despite the fear. You've got this!
@@marythewinter Unfortunately I live in America but thank you for thinking of me.
Exact same boat here: my parents raised me to be purely book-smart with no other living skills, hoping I'd become one of those Silicon Valley tech job types... sure, I'm in a fancy college program now, but chronic illness and lack of accommodations for ADHD and autism = no internships and full reliance upon my unaccepting family. Sending hugs and I wish you all the best!
AuDHDer here. Are there any benefits that you could apply for to help you get on your feet?
USAF lt col = United States Air Force lieutenant colonel. Basically, OP started the post with "I'm a fancy military person"
Another thing that annoys me about the 'oh you have to be above (insert an arbitrary age) to know you're gay' people is that when their kids/people come out to them when they /are/ older they always are confused at how they 'suddenly turned gay' and that they weren't gay before so they can't be gay now.
i just happened upon your video- and I love your views on the second story. People on reddit are quick to hate on the mother when she obviously is trying to change. To her, it like living life being told the sky is green, and then finally being told its blue- IT HARD TO CHANGE! But she is trying! and I find that very respectful, and I actually find the people calling her an ahole for 1. staying with the husband 2. being homophobic prior to be complete asshole who do not understand life. Thank you for being patient and undertaanding her views, it was very sweet
"I'm not homophobic, BAAAAAAAHHHHHTTTTT-"
The start of many a homophobic sentences.
@@twistedmyth5860 If not most, like 90 %. This is how every single hateful comment my mum has ever uttered about this topic would start.
Bahtman.
Most relationships at age 15 are "just a phase" if you think about it. Would he also withhold a present from a straight partner? No of course he wouldn't
I came out as bi to my parents at 16, and they were VERY much like the dad in the first story. They tried to mask their disgust under the guise of "just a phase" or "you shouldn't be focusing on that right now; you're too young to know." They made it very clear they didn't like the idea of me being in a relationship that wasn't with a man.
It's been three years since then, and I'm pansexual AND transmasc. Neither of them know, because I still remember that day when I told them. It's a scary experience just figuring yourself out (in my experience), and not having supportive parents makes it even worse. The daughter there WILL remember what her dad did because it's a sad reminder that he doesn't respect the way she feels. I do respect that it looks like he's at least TRYING to work through his bias, but it still looks like there's more to do. I really hope he recognizes the gravity of what he did, in all honesty.
I'm so sorry your parents let you down. I hope you have found a supportive chosen family, and that your parents think long and hard about what love really means. You deserve love and support. x
Ugh, my parents still think me being trans "is just a phase, you've barely had any time to consider it". Yeah, it's been over 8 years since I came out to them, pointing out they got married in less time than that does not go over well.
Agreed, even if the dad turns around ( which I don’t think he will) his hate WILL stick with her. My coming out was way worse and even though my mom did a complete 180 and fully supports me now I still remember that traumatic experience, I have forgiven her but I’ve not forgotten about it
For the second story, while I understand that homophobia is a horrible thing that we should almost never put up with, I genuinely think it is privileged of the people who commented to judge the mother. In her situation, I think that she forced one of the best possible outcomes even if it isn't great. We should hate homophobia, not people in situations like this.
I have a similar situation with my parents as Noa, I’m turning 17 next month and my girlfriend and I have been together for nearly 8 months now but my parents still treat me like a child and don’t think my relationship is “true love”
1st story: I already knew he's the AH from the beginning. Also I knew I was gay when I was 14. I wasn't in a relationship but I knew it was different from other guys.
2nd story: she's NTA she is trying that's good thing. Also screw that husband and her parents.
3rd story: I don't even have to read it. OP YTA. OK that got worse. My mom and my cousin said that I am not gay when I was 17. I said how the hell you know that more than myself. And I agree with Bree, OP is a mega AH.
I fully agree with you on the second one. By taking steps to support her son and doing this against her upbringing and the approval of close family members shows a lot of strength. It’s easy for me to be open-minded because I was raised that way. I commend her and hope she continues on her journey to being accepting and understanding the LGBTQ+ community.
💯
In the last story,
1. The posters didn't matter, I had posters of the teenage mutant ninja turtles in my bedroom and that means nothing except for on some level I enjoy the show, same for the video game posters.
2. The daughter could be bi, but whatever she says she is, is what she is.
3. She may not want to continue soccer and is listening to her girlfriend who is trying to help her.
4. That annoying "she told her brother "it feels weird"" maybe this is her first relationship or first time kissing full stop.
OK, so... Point one, yeah, maybe you weren't attracted to _all_ of the TMNT... But like, come on...
Donnie kinda hot though?
Also not everyone likes kissing. Ace or not (and you can be an ace lesbian), some people just don't enjoy it.
@@waffles3629 that's kinda the point I'm making, just to be clear.
@@bushybeardedbear😂 When I was about ten years old, my friends and I had a pretend game that we literally called “Ninja Turtle Boyfriends” where they were our boyfriends and we lived in the sewers with them and helped them fight crime. Donatello was always mine bc he was the nerdy smart one. 😆💜
@@ronanmates7812 oh, I know, I was agreeing with you.
Im so glad that you were so kind to the second mother. She is trying so hard and Im so very proud of her. The commenters that were being a-holes to her have a poor EQ.
On the mom with the gay son and homophobic husband - that kinda thing hits close to home for me. I and all my loved ones were raised religious conservatives. We can’t help how we’re raised. And I think people underestimate how hard it is to get out of that, both mentally and socially. It’s a self-protecting system designed to discourage doubt and dissent. I have so much respect and appreciation for my parents for reevaluating the views they held all their lives.
Story 1: 98% of that story is irrelevant. “Someone who is with my daughter a lot made her a bookmark. I didn’t give it to her. AITA?” Well yeah no DUH! The part about the homophobia just made it worse
"Am I the asshole for not giving a gift to its original receiver?"
Most people really should do the head exercise to make everything gender neutral before posting Queerphobic bs. Will help avoid a lot of shame.
@@Stachelbeeerchen yep. Like unless it's a prank "gift" intended to cause harm, it's none of anyone else's business.
I was confused about what the question was at first. "Is it wrong to mislead someone who trusts me and go back on my word?" Yes.
I wanted to add some comments for the 2nd story from my experience.
My father was born in 1924, my mom was born 1949 - you already see, there's a huge age gap here.
He was always abusive and manipulative to both my mom and me.
I refused to talk to him/acknowledge him when I was 14 and he slapped me because I finally snapped back at his abuse. She eventually begged me to say "sorry", just so the peace would be back.
I did it for her, but it's one of the few things in my life that I still regret. I went back to consider him air when I was 17, because I was fed up with him, and my mom this time agreed and stood her ground as well.
I was already dreaming of moving away, but with her. The relationship with my mom was always close and dear and frankly, I wouldn't have been able to live alone from what I now know is severe ADHD issues and the deep depression and PTSD symptoms I had at that time. She was dreaming up houses with me, too, but there was always this little room that was supposed to be for my father left in these plans - rooms that neither of us drew bigger then a little storage closet, but still. She felt like she couldn't leave him alone because he was already so old, and that she had to bear through it, that she owed him somehow.
It took her to open up to an outsider and her telling her "Take your kid and your dog and LEAVE" for her to finally snap out of it and find the resolve. We waited till I was 18 (so he wouldn't get visitation rights over me) and moved 500km away.
I'm telling this because it's damn hard to just pack your things and leave if you're in an abusive marriage for such a long time. Especially when her family as well throws around with bible verses, she is probably still stuck in a mindset of being the property of her husband. Abuse can't be unlearned so quickly. That she's working on her homophobia is Incredible as it is, and should be honored, instead of blaming her not to be perfect within a second.
And for the word thing... my mom still sometimes slips and uses the German version of the N-Word by accident, because she never learned it as a slur, but as a descriptive term without value. At the same time, she's in no way racist and openly fights back racism when she comes across it. And while I always remind her, I know it's hard for her to unlearn, because heck, that word was still used in descriptive manner when I was a young teenager! Because for many it was "just a word". We had sweets including the name! (that obviously has been stopped by now) But at these times, encountering a person of color was rare in our parts of Germany, too, so there wasn't much opportunity for her to relearn.
So for this mom to never realize that the f-word was a slur - yeah, I totally get that! And I praise her for being so quick on the heel to learn not to use it!
3rd one, I would bet good money it goes like this: Mom is furious with girlfriend for derailing the college plan. Mom gets into an argument, doesn't think straight, only thinks about getting her daughter out of the relation. Screams that nonsense but doesn't know how to back down or to admit that's what she was doing even to herself. Searches, unconsciously , for things to back up her assertion, up come the posters.
I've seen similar behaviors before, (eg child wants to drop out of college and hike across the world with lover = " You're ruining your future! You don't want to do it, you're doing it because of them" Then down the line "You never liked camping when you were 10").
It's just that it's about something much more important than the usual stuff and can cause much more hurt .
The second one made me cry. Being worried you are the asshole when you are doing everything you can to accept your child and embrace them. Poor woman, poor kiddo. If this is the family you reject as a person, you've lost the most. The Father is a fool to not understand this or regret it I hope the guilt and regret eats him so maybe his view shifts
That second story legitimately made me cry.
You're not wrong about the second OP. And people being like, "Just leave." If she's from a serious fundie family, she might have been entirely homeschooled and married off as soon as she was of age. No job history. No skills. I'd like to see all these Redditors come back from that.
I think they're being harsh on her because she can leave if she wants to. She can pick skills up along the way and get a job elsewhere than that toxic place she's in
I think the mum in the second one definitely deserves sympathy. It's one thing to get out of your bubble and unlearn things, but when doing so means you have to sacrifice all your support, both financially and emotionally, it takes a lot of courage and it's that part that deserves to be acknowledged.
I'm guessing she was brought up in a community with an expectation of "wife stays at home, husband bread winner and head of house" or thereabouts, and she really doesn't have much options beyond staying where she is or extreme poverty/homelessness. I hope her situation gets better, whether that be her husband coming round, or more likely get support from her son or some other outside organisation to get out and be able to support herself.
"You do realize that you're homophobic like him, right?"
This is a similar mentality we see when people bring up Lovecraft. Like, yeah, he was INCREDIBLY racist. But he also got better and made an apology for being so hateful for so long and wished it happened sooner.
And people seem to want a punching bag to hate rather than acknowledging that people can change, and it takes a long time to get there. She already said she's aware that she was homophobic from the start. She's clearly making an effort to change. And it was also clear that she used the slur later in the story to make a point against the husband. I don't think she still actually thought of her son that way.
I had no clue that Lovecraft had apologized
@@jayfalcon-rw3qc He didn't. I just googled it, and according to Williamette Weekly, Utrecht University, and Canada's National Post newspaper, which, while being very right leaning at least factchecks itself reputably, Lovecraft never apologized for being a racist. He merely justified it by pretending it was an intellectual rather than a moral position. Thus 100% d-bag.
@@FunkyLittlePoptart welp, too good to be true
I think saying the slur back to him in that moment was a very powerful statement and I don't condemn it at all.
@@alex_blue5802 To me, it felt like the moment when she went from trying to reconcile her past with tolerance of her son to being a full-on ally.
Honestly I appreciate the mom too, she's trying her best for her son in a situation that is not working in her favor. I actually feel bad for her, she's stuck and has no way to get out of it.
Sadly reddit doesn't believe in redemption and you need to be absolutely perfect because otherwise you suck just as much as the more hurtful people in their eyes (just like in this case, where they say she sucks just as much as her husband because she's still not a perfect supporter).
Tbh I kinda sympathize with her because I risked to go down a similar path too (luckily my older sibling and Steven Universe snapped me out of that mindset).
tried to come out when I was 14 as trans, family essentially "didn't believe me" in such a way that I instead BELIEVED THEM. And went back into the closet. It's been 8 years and I just started therapy and ABSOLUTELY it "sticks with you" 13:57 this for real. Oh my god that hit home.
Regarding the second mother, it's very easy from the outside to say homophobia is bad under all circumstances and to expect someone to turn it off like a tap, but if that's the way she was raised and it's been her environment for her entire adult life it's going to take time and effort to change her way of thinking. The most important thing she can do, and is doing, is to show a willingness to change and put in the active effort to do so. Change isn't instant.
What I dearly wish for this lady is that she finds a way to carry on giving her son the love and support he deserves without being punished by the people around her. It sounds like she's trapped in her marriage and needs a way out. I hope she finds one.
Story 1: even if it was "just a phase" their daughter is figuring that out. Plus that was a sweet and innocent gift.
Story 2: I live in a city that has a lot of blatant homophobia present so I appreciate that the Mom is at least trying to be unlearn what she's learn.
Story 3: I think it's both that she's worried about how quickly her daughter is making big life changes after meeting her partner and that there's bi or pan phobia. Most of my crushes as a kid were male. Turns out what I found attractive in them are what I also find attractive in women and nonbinary folks. 😊
Why does that first guy even have to ask if he's the arsehole? It's incredibly obvious when even your wife gets horrified with your response, and you STILL have to turn to Reddit because you're "doubting"...
Edit: I also wanted to react to the mom of the gay son. I definitely think she's NTA, and what a lot of younger people tend to forget, is that times and society was a lot different back then. The only "community representation" was in comedy. And everything was focused on "traditional family values". She's been indoctrinated by her time, and she's trying to break through it all. She sounds homophobic, because she never learned to be anything different...
From what I've seen, I think people who are definitely a-holes are often looking for confirmation from others on reddit. Like they actually expect the confirmation and not at all to be called the a-hole, because they are not looking for an unbiased vieuw on the situation. They just want to hear they were right
I love how patient and understanding you spoke about the mother with the homophobic past and family. Change can be really hard especially when there's so much influence in your life saying the opposite. A lot of the comments you read were indeed very harsh and the community should encourage positive chances and not belittle someone who is making an effort.
This is the first AITA reaction video I’ve seen from your channel, so glad I found it, I love hearing out your perspective and opinions. I’m going to go look up the podcast you mentioned too!
I’m all for celebrating people who are making a genuine effort. It’s incredibly hard to break out of old beliefs, and I think we should cheer on and encourage the people who are trying.
Been with my partner since I was 16. We're in our mid/late 30's now. Yeah.. op sucks.
Also a sentiment that I find so important to remember is that the love they are feeling at 15 is the strongest feelings they've ever felt AT THAT POINT.
Do I love my partner better, more completely now at 36? Yes, of course I do! We've had decades together to deepen our bond, grow and grow UP.. but that doesn't mean I didn't love him at 16!
Dismissing and infantalizing your teenagers feelings will only serve to drive them away from you.
If we want people to change: we have to let them change.
Patience has limits, and to each those limits may be different. Don't think it's a wrong-right kind of situation, more like a place in a healing journey.
As someone who grew up in a very homophobic church and had to unlearn a lot of stuff myself, I strongly empathize with the OP with a gay son and homophobic husband. The unlearning process is really difficult to go through, especially when so many people in your life stop supporting you because of it. Honestly, she’s handling her son being gay better than I handled figuring out I was LGBT+. I can tell she’s trying, and kudos to her for that. Yes, she has a long way to go, and she definitely should not have said that word, but I can tell her heart is in the right place. I hope things work out for her, her son, and his bf. NTA
For the last one, its really confusing but mostly i dont think her saying 'kissing her feels weird' is an hint for anything she could definitely be on the ace spectrum, or simply just not like kissing.