It's not just "a guy" lol, it's a whole team of people researching and he's just the narrator. That being said, I had a feeling that their take on this was kinda misleading, so thanks for the correction.
@@dariiakaraianu3182he didn't say that you eat less. He said that the appetite is more regulated. So you eat what you need to. Thus it can be more since you exercise
Dr. Norton, sir, please, check your microphone or on your audio editor. Noticed some drops in audio quality, like muted voice and much pronounced echo effect. On the other side, great WTF for all of us to learn and ponder 🧠❤️
it’s that dji-like mic he sometimes wears in his collar. Those are very sensitive to being close to/blocked by skin or clothing. But yeah, they could take a look in repositioning or some better audio input alternative. No takeaways from quality information though!
Yes the mic definitely needs to be positioned better. On the shirt collar is a bad spot because it picks up the echos from your chest cavity, and as we can hear, the body movement of the tshirt. It really should be on the camera. A $50-60 shotgun mic mounted on top of the camera hotshoe will give FAR better audio.
I think it’s good that more people understand that you will have a hard time out working a bad diet, but now people seem to take it in the opposite direction and think exercise doesn’t matter much. I think if I had to pick one for my patients it would be to have a better diet, but exercise is still critically important.
Correct. So many people (especially those who don't eat right and exercise) constantly argue a type of either or thing. "This is good." "That is bad." Pitting things against each other as though everything works in absolutes.
Fun trivia: _Kurzgesagt_ asked both _Mike Israetel_ and _Ben Carpenter_ (both of which have been mentioned, in a positive light, in this channel a couple times before) to help with this (long format) video, which was slightly adjusted and reuploaded after some uproar on the comments about the veracity (or rather delivery) of some claims. This really says something about Kurzgesagt's pursuit of scientific accuracy and the quality of their content. -I'm pretty sure this was the video, but I could be wrong-
True--but Layne himself either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented the research he's discussing. Pontzer's research has consistently found that the Hadza (and other non-industrial groups) have roughly the same TDEE as sedentary western folks when controlled for body size. But Layne presents this as being a non-controlled variable--which is 100% not true. Here's a direct quote and cite: "As expected, physical activity level, PAL, was greater among Hadza foragers than among Westerners. Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size." Cite here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3405064/ What does that say about Layne's "pursuit of scientific accuracy" and the quality of his content? Do you think it's a good faith mistake or something else?
The whole study is irrelevant to what is discussed, hunter gatherer tribes try to conserve energy as much as possible, it's not surprising at all that they don't burn much calories.
Wow your take on this was really insightful, especially the feedback on the study they've analised and the final take aways of your video. Kurzgesagt is a big team with Huge budget per video and multiple writers. The fact that you alone were able to pick up those nuances is impressive! I hope their team sees and acknowledges your contribution to the discussion :) maybe reach out to them to send your video!
You would think that surely this hunter/gatherer study worked on the theory of calories used per Kg of body weight? Because a 80kg person uses more calories then a 60kg person.
And quality of calories is meaningful. Certain foods have certain beneficial properties. Depending on what u eat u can burn more fat. You want to lose fat not just weight..you want a different body composition. Different intake will have different results. All refined carbs and u will be a flabby pudgeball.
@gmo709 I've never heard of this. I would certainly agree that greater protein consumption would result in higher lean body mass but I'm not certain that macro intake would matter as much if you were still significantly under your maintenance calories. Do have any links or suggestions of videos that back up this claim? This could really help with nutrition recommendations for clients
Im glad youre talking about this, I cant stand this new movement that has emerged pretty recently (or at least only got popular in the last few years) of people saying that exercise isn't useful for weight loss. To which my first question to such claims is: how are olympic atheletes chowing down on 10k+ calories a day when they're training and not getting fat? Are they really going to argue that its all genetics?
I think the idea that exercise isn't a super effective tool for weight loss is accurate, as explained in the video. It is certainly helpful, but I think the spirit behind this "movement" that you speak of is to get people to be realistic about what it takes to lose weight. Calorie control. That's pretty much it. Many clients I work with have this idea that they can lose weight through training, even if they keep their diet relatively the same. That's just not even close to true, and people who practice that idea will have shotty results as far as weight loss goes
The argument I typically hear is that exercise alone will not let you lose weight if you don't control your diet because you will just feel more hunger and eat proportionally more. Exercise can be a good addition to a weight loss diet, but on its own without a diet and tracking calories it's not a great way to lose weight.
@@techramancerthat is true, but the point is that it's an extreme example to show that exercise absolutely effects weight loss. The only question after that becomes how extreme does the exercise need to be to have a meaningful effect?
Layne, I appreciate your input on this video. Like you said Kurzgesagt is a really cool TH-cam channel to follow and they brought up some good points on exercise for weight loss. But I agree with Layne's criticism of the Kurzgesagt video.
It should be noted that the video featured in Norton's video here is a slightly updated version that was originally uploaded about a month or so ago. Kurzgesagt updated it after it caused a bit of a shitstorm. I made a response to the original video here, immediately: th-cam.com/video/8OsSPtXHkUY/w-d-xo.html Good point about the satiety signals. I touched on exercise's role in moderating eating habits in a different way, but the satiety signaling aspect is something I didn't think to touch on. It should also be noted that Dr. Mike Isreatel from Renaissance Periodization helped with the original video, but kind of made some ameliorating, contextualizing comments in a follow up RP shortly after people started complaining about the Kurz video. It's all convoluted.
Hunter gathers were weight adjusted in the study. Maybe the reason for the difference is that the HGs adjusted their metabolism downward due to activity, but western fatties adjust their metabolism upwards to cope with the extra calories to some extent. In Layne's video he does point to how exercise in studies still shows 70% extra calories being burned off.
I'm in minute 1 and here is what I have to say from my experience, WY weight since starting weight training didn't change in 3 years,but my body composition, shuit ,I look better at 46 than when I was 25! And dis is what counts,muscle mass is metabolically expensive ,and changes yiur fat to muscle ratio
Kurzgesagt is a whole team, this is why they manage to make such high quality videos :D Having civilized arguments on the internet is pleasant to see. Waving at the algorithm 👋
I imagine there are many followers of Wayne whose own experience with weight loss and the role exercise played in that achievement and its maintenance can relate/verify his take. I was a chubby (using the term somewhat euphemistically) teenager who started learning about consistent exercise and dietary choices just about the time I was starting university and my research career in the medical sciences. That was well over a quarter century ago now. I lost significant amount of weight then and have kept it off as I approach my 50's through regular (i.e. everyday) exercise and nutrient rich low-processed food diet. In fact, my lean mass is now the highest it has ever been since I've become more deliberate about strength training, and I am the same size now as when I was in grad school.
Layne, thanks for the video! An in-depth look at the calories in calories out model would be hugely appreciated! Here is my current understanding, Calories in: Food intake, mediated by satiety factors, which can be impacted by genetics, sleep quality, emotional states, environment, the anti or pro-hunger properties of foods. (Hyperpalatable foods have less anti-hunger properties, and whole food sources of fiber and protein being more anti-hunger ) Calories out: BMR, NEAT, exercise, digesting food. BMR - determined by amount of lean body mass. Can an individual change this much? NEAT - largely un-conscious movements Exercise - has some calories out effect, but the body can compensate, and it's very difficult to burn enough calories to out-do dietary choices. Like one donut is equivalent to an hour of lifting or running. Digesting food - likely not a huge effect I'm wondering what percentage of those other factors can be influenced, to what degree, and how much each of them matters for weight loss. More questions: - What exactly is metabolism, can someone really change their metabolism to a significant degree with anything other than lean body mass increases? Does going from 18% to 12% body fat, but keeping the same weight, change metabolism to a significant degree? Does muscle 'burn' more calories than fat at rest?
I'm in the process of loosing weight. When I exercise (walk/gym) I'm not hungry then its way easier to stick to my calorie deficit. On day's I do not exercise, I have to eat a little less to keep a calorie deficit AND I'm soooo hungry.... I confirm it help's a lot during weight loss! If I don't feel hungry then lossing weight is a matter of time. If I feel hungry it's much more difficult to resist temptation on fhe long term.
they actually contacted experts in order to help them correct the informations that were wrong and reuploaded the corrected version. kurzgesagt has always been an awesome channel, but this really showed that they are interested in providing high quality, evidence based content.
Love your content. One of the rare few no BS channels. Can you delve into Barbara O'Neill she's very "Dr. Berg esque in her partial truths and misinformation vids.
Dear Dr. Norton, thanks for your take on it. Actually this channel is run by mutliple people and there was a huge discussion some weeks ago, since the first version of this video was a complete disaster. They actually reached out to Ben Carpenter and he helped to make the video great! Hope that helped to clarify some things. Wish you a great day and many greetings from a scientist!
So glad he addressed the Hadza/Burn/Pontzer thing. Just a glance at the stats, Hadza have the size, body composition, and activity level of female professional gymnasts. About 5’ 100-115lbs, heavily active. They may eat the same 2400cal a day as 5’10 180lbs office workers, but those apples are WAY different than those oranges. And it’s simply absurd to believe that Simone Biles quits training but doesn’t quit eating, she’ll stay the same 104lbs for very long
you have unfortunately completely missed the point of the research. Not totally your fault because Layne missed the mark on the body size point--all of the studies (and there are many) are controlled for body size. Pontzer himself noted this on Layne's twitter page. So that leaves the mystery of how, when equated for body size, these people who are extremely physically active, expend virtually the same amount of calories as sedentary westerners. I mean, it's not a total "mystery" since there are multiple plausible explanations. BTW, these studies are extremely high powered and use most accurate free living method of measuring calorie expenditure (doubly labeled water) so the data is sound as far as I know. There has been a mountain of this research coming out over the last 10 years or so--I've yet to see a study or research refuting their findings.
When I heard about the study on this tribe my first thought that these are small people compared to North Americans making comparisons an apple orange situation. My second thought when people say you get used to a level of exercise is yes that is true but your effort has also gone down to do the same thing. If you put in the same amount of effort as you did when you started you will constantly be burning more calories. Its pretty simple but people really want an excuse to not exercise.
The researchers clearly stated in the paper that it is not an intervention study, which imposed increased physical activity onto a modern human lifestyle, which is what this video and most people are trying to use it for. No where in the paper do they claim that increased physical in a person with modern sedentary lifestyle will not increase his/her TDEE. The only logical conclusion one can make from this paper is that modern human lifestyle and hunter-gatherer lifestyle have on average the same TDEE, and it can mean 1 of 2 things: modern sedentary lifestyle uses more energy than anticipated, or hunter-gatherer lifestyle somehow has ways to very efficiently conserve energy, and I personally lean more toward the latter. If you keep all your daily activities the same, while adding more physical activity, you will spend more energy regardless of how much you compensate. One can only compensate with NEAT so much to the point of laying completely motionless like a dead fish outside of intentional activities, which I highly doubt anyone does, then no more compensation can be done, and at that point adding more intentional activity will add more energy expenditure. The notion that there is a hard cap on energy expenditure is just wild on a scientific basis. Again, the study was NOT intended to be used as evidence to say that increased physical activity imposed on a person will not increase his/her energy expenditure.
There's a whole book that synthesizes a lot of this research (although its still evolving) where Pontzer does actually make the "wild claim" that there is a hard cap on energy expenditure as well as energy intake (as they are related).
Hwre is the guy who exercise and have lost 40 pounds. I did lost weight by dieting,,BUT! By doing exercises i was motivated t keep it up, i was happier after hard workout, and after 2-3 moths if suffering with pain ( mostly hip pain) i actually improved my health and the pain has stoped. It took me 5-6 months to lose this weight and now over a year I am still exercising, having better choices at the kitchen and have bunch of strength and muscles. So people do your exercises along with dieting.
I don't exercise with the intention of losing weight, I watch my diet for that. But, on the other hand, when I worked at FedEx years ago loading trucks, I could eat as much as I wanted and still lost weight.
Everytime I go to walmart I get depressed seeing the amount of people that have mutations from overeating and cancer foods. I also live in one of the states with the highest obesity rates though.
I follow Kurzgesagt too and they usually have a good track record. I was actually wanting Layne to do this one. Sometimes I feel Kurz may bend the messaging to tailor it more to their team biases, so the scientific truth may come out a tad blurry in cases such as these. I believe their intention to had been “you can’t outwork a bad diet”, but it came out wrong and they re-posted it with corrections as one should. Kudos to all, Kurz for research and correction, Kurz’s comments for point those out and Layne for a proper depiction of it all. Awesome channels! FOR THE ALGORITHM!!!!! edit: grammar errors 😅
Great video, Dr. Layne Norton! Your insights into fitness and weight loss are always enlightening. I believe you would also enjoy the content over at Peak Point Fitness, as they also focus on health, fitness, and overall wellbeing. Keep up the amazing work!
Where people go wrong with calories in vs calories out is its the calories in that matters most. I mean you can only adjust calories out by so much with exercise and general movement whereas you can reduce calories in all the way down to nothing if you really wanted to. ( obviously I don’t recommend this )
Had no idea who he was talking about till I read "Kurzgesagt" in the comments, lol. For an American Lane did pronounce it pretty well, but my German ears still couldn't understand it(if I knew it was a German name, than maybe)
Hi Layne et al, I'm still wondering / waiting to see if you will be ever responding to your own followers and Simon Hill regarding that study on protein consumption and longevity where you got it a little bit wrong at least and left out some important content? You have always represented yourself as open-minded and willing to change your mind and have done so, how come the omission in this case? Thx
I've heard this before and I can only go by my own experience. When I joined the Navy as a young man I was very overweight and by the end of my first enlistment I had lost over 50 lbs and I did it through calisthenics and running, lots of running. And I didn't change my diet and it sucked. Now many years later I'm in my 60s I have worked out consistently since my early military days and I have lost over 75lbs and I continue to keep it off and most of that is through exercise and my nutrition of course. Don't get me wrong I know the importance of nutrition which I have learned a lot from watching these videos as well as others .And for all these so-called studies that say the exercise makes you more tired or listless that's another form of bullshit! Exercise gives me energy and makes me more productive!! 🏋️🏋️🏃♂️🏃♂️🥊🥊🥋🥋
@@eetuhalonen9902 I would have to say that my education on nutrition was not very good. The Navy provided food in the mess hall but I was on a shore station so I would eat just regular food but looking back my diet wasn't that great. And yes now that I'm older I'm much more conscious of what I eat and I mainly eat for performance.
If exercise doesn't change your daily calorie burn, then why do Tour De France riders consume 5,000 - 8,000 calories per day during the tour? Obviously, exercise burns calories.
But the question is what’s the ideal amount of exercise on off days (minutes/week) that doesn’t interfere with lifting adaptations, doesn’t lead to too much fatigue and pays off compared to just lifting and diet. Many suggest 1 hour low to moderate intensity 5x/week. Or if it even should be exercise (“cardio” session) or just daily step count goal (10-12k?) And what about HIIT? Can it be done if each session is quite short? (Under 30 minutes)
Track your workouts and see what kind of effect cardio has on them. It´s not possible to give simple time recommendations. There is too much variance. Depends on your genes, your recovery and you can increase your work out capacity by getting into better shape.
Exactly my thought when watching the Kurz video! I eat around 4000 kcal a day on average and weigh around 172lb but according to what they said in that vid my calorie burn should be dropping down to the same as a sedentary person despite my active lifestyle.
@@archanag.5757 I'm not here claiming to have done the research, but it just doesn't make sense. Just look at the physique of almost all endurance based athletes. There's no way professional cyclists such as Tadej Pogacar have a TDEE of 6000kcal+ at rest. That's absurd.
The Hadza research is controlled for body size, so you're completetly wrong saying that if you shrink an obese American, he would burn less calories. I think people should exercise for all the other benefits stated. If they also want to lose weight, they should watch their diet AND also exercise because as you said it improves your appetite regulation, not because it will burn you 100kcal by running for 20 minutes.
@@CoreofShaneyou're missing the point of the research. If someone who was sedentary starts exercising (let's say half an hour a day), they will initially burn some more calories. However, the body will become more efficient through doing that exercise and then it levels back out again, burning pretty much the same daily calories. The person will be leaner which is a good thing, but the benefit from exercise in terms of calorie deficit won't last long. The research is simply saying don't rely on exercise to control weight, do it through calories in, and then use exercise for all the additional health benefits that comes with it.
@@noggintubeit won’t level back out again. If that were true professional marathoners who run marathons consistently wouldn’t have to eat above their sedentary maintenance to maintain their weight.
@@noggintube I am not. The body becomes more efficient by becoming FITTER. Meaning that person can now exercise harder during that given amount of time and burn more calories. It will always require X amount of energy to move an object a Y amount of distance. For example: A 150 lb person will always require around 100 calories to move the distance of a mile. Work (Energy) = Force * Distance There is no getting around that equation. The difference here is the fitter person, can now walk that one mile faster…
As you get fitter you can exercise at a higher level of intensity and/or more time for the same perceived effort so this is actually the reverse of this much quoted effect.
Have you spoken to Herman Pontzer of his gross miscalculation? lol im sure in 5-8 years of his research experiment the obvious size difference between an average American and average Hadza didn’t cross his mind
Talking about examples versous what typical will happen for a big group of people (that has been mislead that tranining is THE way to loose fat), isn't the same. We can all misunderstand Kurzgesagt if we want to. Many did in their first video. Enough to the point where they remade it to clarify some stuff. Internet can be a harsh place when we all start with our elbows out.
My workout DOES help me lose weight and it is because if I am lifting and running with a view to lose weight, it very much puts my head in the game, game face on, like rambo, gearing up and I am more likely to restrict my calories because I feel that I am working towards being ripped and muscular. If I dont work out I more often then not give up on my diet. If working out was put into a pill and the pill was advertised as "this pill will mentally strengthen you to stick to your diet" then hell yeah I would take that pill. And I do.
i know this soudns weird, but Dr. Norton, you are too buff for your mic. As you turn right (moving your right side upwards), it muffles your mic and got that audio inconsistency. Not sure how you can fix this other than wearing it the other way or use a different mic.
As a competitive cyclist and lifter I would love it if i could eat as much when im not training hard as when I am. Or maybe i wouldn't, it's a lot of work😂 This is why Layne's carbon diet app didnt work for me. I could do an easy 500 calorie spin one day and a 3000 calorie ride the next and there was no way to compensate for that acute deficit.
I think you should have been harsher on this one. He basically repeats the magical belief that energy balance doesn't matter. Which is one of the central ideas stopping people to even try.
He forgot to mention that the human body is also very efficient when it comes to storing energy, and that hunter-gatherers would certainly be obese were they presented to a culture of highly caloric comfort foods too. What forces energy compensation to be optimized is the absence of excess calories in an environment with high caloric demands. It’s not a magical trick that makes the body burn more energy than it needs. Kurz gesagt, it’s just another example of aweful mischaracterization of scientific data.
Layne, I love you. I watch all your videos and basically follow all your advice. However, when you call Kurtzgesagt "this guy" it's a little irritating. It's actually a whole team and they research the shit out of everything they write, consulting multiple experts, extensively fact checking, etc. They've detailed their process before and the amount of work they put into to each video is staggering. Just a little nit pick, love u bro.
Come on now, the argument wasn't against exercise, it was just arguing that exercise is not an effective way to lose weight specifically. I think the argument was not correct in that it was not appropriately taking into account the benefits of exercise towards weight loss, but at the end of the video it clearly said you should exercise for different reasons. The video was very pro-exercise. You're spreading more misinformation in this comment than the video was.
Think the whole video makes it a bit more clear where they wanna go with this message, it's not awfully wrong what they are saying, just too oversimplified for its own good.
100% agree with you but i have a very strang expirence here that i wanna put out. I think that resistance training specifically increases your weight (fat, muscle and bone) but it might decrease the bodyfat percentage. I remember that before when i got to 90kg i was very sluggish, and didin't look so good, now i'm 93kg and i look and feel better, added some muscle and i believe i'm still "leaner" in the sense that my bodyfat percentage is lower despite having more fat mass as well.
I went from 136kg to 94kg by just dieting. I didn't exercise whatsoever. It's all about cico. I experimented with all the diets and feeding protocols. In the end I found that having a light and flexible Mediterranean diet of high protein, high carbs, high fiber, low fat and no junk food was the best way.
Why are you taking a landscape video, cropping it into portrait, then surrounding it with a migraine-inducing blurred border? It was already perfectly landscape! There was no reason to make our eyes bleed!
This short is taken out of context. The whole video does a better job of explaining the science. It is anything but anti-exercise if you care to give it a watch.
lol - "This guy". Yep, just one of the largest science channels on TH-cam with 50x the audience of Layne. Layne is great and I'm thankful for the sharing of his insights and knowledge, but his ego is just cringe.
I haven't watched that channel in years so maybe they improved, but when I was still watching them they would often way oversimplyfy complex issues and present in a biased one sided way, and also occasionally make some pretty basic mistakes so eventually I lost trust in them and stopped watching.
It's not just "a guy" lol, it's a whole team of people researching and he's just the narrator. That being said, I had a feeling that their take on this was kinda misleading, so thanks for the correction.
"it's a whole team of people researching". Yikes, and they still made such a mistake in understanding the study.
I don’t agree with this “correction” I eat more when I exercise.
@@dariiakaraianu3182me too
You mad bro? Go back to watching the propaganda, nonsense, cartoon videos of that idiot
@@dariiakaraianu3182he didn't say that you eat less. He said that the appetite is more regulated. So you eat what you need to. Thus it can be more since you exercise
In the study they are quoting, they actually are scaling Hadza to the avrg American to perform the size for the kcal comparison.
Correct! Somehow Layne has completely missed the point that the data is controlled for body size across populations.
yeah this is the comment I was looking for.
I was going to say, I did not believe for a second that total body mass wasn't accounted for
Dr. Norton, sir, please, check your microphone or on your audio editor. Noticed some drops in audio quality, like muted voice and much pronounced echo effect.
On the other side, great WTF for all of us to learn and ponder 🧠❤️
it’s that dji-like mic he sometimes wears in his collar. Those are very sensitive to being close to/blocked by skin or clothing. But yeah, they could take a look in repositioning or some better audio input alternative. No takeaways from quality information though!
Yes the mic definitely needs to be positioned better. On the shirt collar is a bad spot because it picks up the echos from your chest cavity, and as we can hear, the body movement of the tshirt.
It really should be on the camera. A $50-60 shotgun mic mounted on top of the camera hotshoe will give FAR better audio.
I think it’s good that more people understand that you will have a hard time out working a bad diet, but now people seem to take it in the opposite direction and think exercise doesn’t matter much. I think if I had to pick one for my patients it would be to have a better diet, but exercise is still critically important.
Correct.
So many people (especially those who don't eat right and exercise) constantly argue a type of either or thing.
"This is good."
"That is bad."
Pitting things against each other as though everything works in absolutes.
Fun trivia: _Kurzgesagt_ asked both _Mike Israetel_ and _Ben Carpenter_ (both of which have been mentioned, in a positive light, in this channel a couple times before) to help with this (long format) video, which was slightly adjusted and reuploaded after some uproar on the comments about the veracity (or rather delivery) of some claims. This really says something about Kurzgesagt's pursuit of scientific accuracy and the quality of their content.
-I'm pretty sure this was the video, but I could be wrong-
Was gonna say this as well.
True--but Layne himself either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented the research he's discussing. Pontzer's research has consistently found that the Hadza (and other non-industrial groups) have roughly the same TDEE as sedentary western folks when controlled for body size. But Layne presents this as being a non-controlled variable--which is 100% not true.
Here's a direct quote and cite: "As expected, physical activity level, PAL, was greater among Hadza foragers than among Westerners. Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size." Cite here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3405064/
What does that say about Layne's "pursuit of scientific accuracy" and the quality of his content? Do you think it's a good faith mistake or something else?
@@davidzubkisthat he isn’t infallible and would likely welcome your correction.
@@davidzubkis 🤯 Thanks for pointing it out! I hope Layne comments on this in a follow-up video or something
The whole study is irrelevant to what is discussed, hunter gatherer tribes try to conserve energy as much as possible, it's not surprising at all that they don't burn much calories.
Wow your take on this was really insightful, especially the feedback on the study they've analised and the final take aways of your video. Kurzgesagt is a big team with Huge budget per video and multiple writers. The fact that you alone were able to pick up those nuances is impressive! I hope their team sees and acknowledges your contribution to the discussion :) maybe reach out to them to send your video!
You would think that surely this hunter/gatherer study worked on the theory of calories used per Kg of body weight? Because a 80kg person uses more calories then a 60kg person.
They did control for body size though. Seems like Layne didn't actually go through the study it was based on.
@@ZalvaTionZ thanks I thought that would of been a bit odd. Layne is good but he sure is far from
Perfect
Resistance training, walking, and calorie deficit are what you need to lose weight and body fat.
And quality of calories is meaningful. Certain foods have certain beneficial properties. Depending on what u eat u can burn more fat. You want to lose fat not just weight..you want a different body composition. Different intake will have different results. All refined carbs and u will be a flabby pudgeball.
Running is great as well
@@gmo709 No no, no. You twit.
@gmo709 I've never heard of this. I would certainly agree that greater protein consumption would result in higher lean body mass but I'm not certain that macro intake would matter as much if you were still significantly under your maintenance calories. Do have any links or suggestions of videos that back up this claim? This could really help with nutrition recommendations for clients
And good sleep
For Al Gore. He’s got rhythm.
in a vacum he is 100% correct. I glad Norton provided context and real world application.
Im glad youre talking about this, I cant stand this new movement that has emerged pretty recently (or at least only got popular in the last few years) of people saying that exercise isn't useful for weight loss. To which my first question to such claims is: how are olympic atheletes chowing down on 10k+ calories a day when they're training and not getting fat? Are they really going to argue that its all genetics?
In regards to high level athletes such as Olympic level, they are training at intensity levels outside of the average fit joe.
I think the idea that exercise isn't a super effective tool for weight loss is accurate, as explained in the video. It is certainly helpful, but I think the spirit behind this "movement" that you speak of is to get people to be realistic about what it takes to lose weight. Calorie control. That's pretty much it. Many clients I work with have this idea that they can lose weight through training, even if they keep their diet relatively the same. That's just not even close to true, and people who practice that idea will have shotty results as far as weight loss goes
The argument I typically hear is that exercise alone will not let you lose weight if you don't control your diet because you will just feel more hunger and eat proportionally more.
Exercise can be a good addition to a weight loss diet, but on its own without a diet and tracking calories it's not a great way to lose weight.
@@techramancerthat is true, but the point is that it's an extreme example to show that exercise absolutely effects weight loss. The only question after that becomes how extreme does the exercise need to be to have a meaningful effect?
“You can’t out exercise a bad diet”
This confirms my personal experience. During the periods of my life when I have been most active I was at my leanest.
Layne, I appreciate your input on this video. Like you said Kurzgesagt is a really cool TH-cam channel to follow and they brought up some good points on exercise for weight loss. But I agree with Layne's criticism of the Kurzgesagt video.
It should be noted that the video featured in Norton's video here is a slightly updated version that was originally uploaded about a month or so ago. Kurzgesagt updated it after it caused a bit of a shitstorm.
I made a response to the original video here, immediately:
th-cam.com/video/8OsSPtXHkUY/w-d-xo.html
Good point about the satiety signals. I touched on exercise's role in moderating eating habits in a different way, but the satiety signaling aspect is something I didn't think to touch on.
It should also be noted that Dr. Mike Isreatel from Renaissance Periodization helped with the original video, but kind of made some ameliorating, contextualizing comments in a follow up RP shortly after people started complaining about the Kurz video.
It's all convoluted.
Great additional information, thanks Layne!
It's also worth mentioning that exercise has an effect on appetite control, which may further help offset some of the NEAT compensation.
The more you know.......Another great video Layne!
Hunter gathers were weight adjusted in the study.
Maybe the reason for the difference is that the HGs adjusted their metabolism downward due to activity, but western fatties adjust their metabolism upwards to cope with the extra calories to some extent.
In Layne's video he does point to how exercise in studies still shows 70% extra calories being burned off.
I'm in minute 1 and here is what I have to say from my experience, WY weight since starting weight training didn't change in 3 years,but my body composition, shuit ,I look better at 46 than when I was 25! And dis is what counts,muscle mass is metabolically expensive ,and changes yiur fat to muscle ratio
Kurzgesagt is a whole team, this is why they manage to make such high quality videos :D Having civilized arguments on the internet is pleasant to see.
Waving at the algorithm 👋
I imagine there are many followers of Wayne whose own experience with weight loss and the role exercise played in that achievement and its maintenance can relate/verify his take. I was a chubby (using the term somewhat euphemistically) teenager who started learning about consistent exercise and dietary choices just about the time I was starting university and my research career in the medical sciences. That was well over a quarter century ago now. I lost significant amount of weight then and have kept it off as I approach my 50's through regular (i.e. everyday) exercise and nutrient rich low-processed food diet. In fact, my lean mass is now the highest it has ever been since I've become more deliberate about strength training, and I am the same size now as when I was in grad school.
Layne, thanks for the video!
An in-depth look at the calories in calories out model would be hugely appreciated!
Here is my current understanding, Calories in: Food intake, mediated by satiety factors, which can be impacted by genetics, sleep quality, emotional states, environment, the anti or pro-hunger properties of foods. (Hyperpalatable foods have less anti-hunger properties, and whole food sources of fiber and protein being more anti-hunger )
Calories out: BMR, NEAT, exercise, digesting food.
BMR - determined by amount of lean body mass. Can an individual change this much?
NEAT - largely un-conscious movements
Exercise - has some calories out effect, but the body can compensate, and it's very difficult to burn enough calories to out-do dietary choices. Like one donut is equivalent to an hour of lifting or running.
Digesting food - likely not a huge effect
I'm wondering what percentage of those other factors can be influenced, to what degree, and how much each of them matters for weight loss.
More questions: - What exactly is metabolism, can someone really change their metabolism to a significant degree with anything other than lean body mass increases? Does going from 18% to 12% body fat, but keeping the same weight, change metabolism to a significant degree?
Does muscle 'burn' more calories than fat at rest?
I'm in the process of loosing weight. When I exercise (walk/gym) I'm not hungry then its way easier to stick to my calorie deficit. On day's I do not exercise, I have to eat a little less to keep a calorie deficit AND I'm soooo hungry.... I confirm it help's a lot during weight loss! If I don't feel hungry then lossing weight is a matter of time. If I feel hungry it's much more difficult to resist temptation on fhe long term.
They actually consulted Mike Israetel for that video. I think he’s the first guy they mention in their credits-and-resources document
they actually contacted experts in order to help them correct the informations that were wrong and reuploaded the corrected version. kurzgesagt has always been an awesome channel, but this really showed that they are interested in providing high quality, evidence based content.
Love your content. One of the rare few no BS channels. Can you delve into Barbara O'Neill she's very "Dr. Berg esque in her partial truths and misinformation vids.
Dear Dr. Norton, thanks for your take on it. Actually this channel is run by mutliple people and there was a huge discussion some weeks ago, since the first version of this video was a complete disaster. They actually reached out to Ben Carpenter and he helped to make the video great! Hope that helped to clarify some things. Wish you a great day and many greetings from a scientist!
3:48 I heard it in his typical style: 📢 HUMAN RAN-DO-MIZED CONTROOOLED TRIAAALLLSSS📢
I think the Hazda study does account for body size as a controlled variable?
It does. He's talking shit.
80/20 It has always been this. 80% Nutrition,Sleep,Water
20% Excercise
So glad he addressed the Hadza/Burn/Pontzer thing. Just a glance at the stats, Hadza have the size, body composition, and activity level of female professional gymnasts. About 5’ 100-115lbs, heavily active. They may eat the same 2400cal a day as 5’10 180lbs office workers, but those apples are WAY different than those oranges. And it’s simply absurd to believe that Simone Biles quits training but doesn’t quit eating, she’ll stay the same 104lbs for very long
you have unfortunately completely missed the point of the research. Not totally your fault because Layne missed the mark on the body size point--all of the studies (and there are many) are controlled for body size. Pontzer himself noted this on Layne's twitter page. So that leaves the mystery of how, when equated for body size, these people who are extremely physically active, expend virtually the same amount of calories as sedentary westerners. I mean, it's not a total "mystery" since there are multiple plausible explanations. BTW, these studies are extremely high powered and use most accurate free living method of measuring calorie expenditure (doubly labeled water) so the data is sound as far as I know. There has been a mountain of this research coming out over the last 10 years or so--I've yet to see a study or research refuting their findings.
Definitely helps. And weight lifting and sprinting reduces visceral fat. It has been proven with MRIs.
When I heard about the study on this tribe my first thought that these are small people compared to North Americans making comparisons an apple orange situation. My second thought when people say you get used to a level of exercise is yes that is true but your effort has also gone down to do the same thing. If you put in the same amount of effort as you did when you started you will constantly be burning more calories. Its pretty simple but people really want an excuse to not exercise.
The researchers clearly stated in the paper that it is not an intervention study, which imposed increased physical activity onto a modern human lifestyle, which is what this video and most people are trying to use it for. No where in the paper do they claim that increased physical in a person with modern sedentary lifestyle will not increase his/her TDEE. The only logical conclusion one can make from this paper is that modern human lifestyle and hunter-gatherer lifestyle have on average the same TDEE, and it can mean 1 of 2 things: modern sedentary lifestyle uses more energy than anticipated, or hunter-gatherer lifestyle somehow has ways to very efficiently conserve energy, and I personally lean more toward the latter. If you keep all your daily activities the same, while adding more physical activity, you will spend more energy regardless of how much you compensate. One can only compensate with NEAT so much to the point of laying completely motionless like a dead fish outside of intentional activities, which I highly doubt anyone does, then no more compensation can be done, and at that point adding more intentional activity will add more energy expenditure. The notion that there is a hard cap on energy expenditure is just wild on a scientific basis. Again, the study was NOT intended to be used as evidence to say that increased physical activity imposed on a person will not increase his/her energy expenditure.
There's a whole book that synthesizes a lot of this research (although its still evolving) where Pontzer does actually make the "wild claim" that there is a hard cap on energy expenditure as well as energy intake (as they are related).
I'm not sure if Layne watched the entire long form video. And he also seems to misinterpret the message of the video.
Do a video on how energy drinks are the reason why so many young people are getting colon cancer
Hwre is the guy who exercise and have lost 40 pounds. I did lost weight by dieting,,BUT! By doing exercises i was motivated t keep it up, i was happier after hard workout, and after 2-3 moths if suffering with pain ( mostly hip pain) i actually improved my health and the pain has stoped. It took me 5-6 months to lose this weight and now over a year I am still exercising, having better choices at the kitchen and have bunch of strength and muscles. So people do your exercises along with dieting.
Type of exercise also matters.
I don't exercise with the intention of losing weight, I watch my diet for that. But, on the other hand, when I worked at FedEx years ago loading trucks, I could eat as much as I wanted and still lost weight.
Everytime I go to walmart I get depressed seeing the amount of people that have mutations from overeating and cancer foods. I also live in one of the states with the highest obesity rates though.
Thanks for this. I’ve seen Milo wolf and other people talking g about this, and the first thing I thought was if body size was taken into account.
It is. Layne should've read the actual study.
Can you review the recent roundtable with Casey means, Jordan Peterson and his daughter talking to the senate about nutrition and health?
time to watch the fitness from France
I follow Kurzgesagt too and they usually have a good track record. I was actually wanting Layne to do this one. Sometimes I feel Kurz may bend the messaging to tailor it more to their team biases, so the scientific truth may come out a tad blurry in cases such as these. I believe their intention to had been “you can’t outwork a bad diet”, but it came out wrong and they re-posted it with corrections as one should. Kudos to all, Kurz for research and correction, Kurz’s comments for point those out and Layne for a proper depiction of it all. Awesome channels!
FOR THE ALGORITHM!!!!!
edit: grammar errors 😅
I was just trying to remember what they said about weight training that bugged me from the original so thank you, I'll go and watch the reworked one🙏
Great video, Dr. Layne Norton! Your insights into fitness and weight loss are always enlightening. I believe you would also enjoy the content over at Peak Point Fitness, as they also focus on health, fitness, and overall wellbeing. Keep up the amazing work!
I might be wrong , but I think Kurzgesagt got some help from Mike Israetel on that episode. I remember him saying it somewhere.
Do what the fitness of your old videos that you changed your mind about. I think it should be a great video
Thank you, I was waiting for this episode since Kurzgesagt's video came out. I felt it was very misleading
Was losing weight. Got injury. Stopped lifting. Ate the same or even less. Put 7kg on.
Where people go wrong with calories in vs calories out is its the calories in that matters most. I mean you can only adjust calories out by so much with exercise and general movement whereas you can reduce calories in all the way down to nothing if you really wanted to. ( obviously I don’t recommend this )
Had no idea who he was talking about till I read "Kurzgesagt" in the comments, lol. For an American Lane did pronounce it pretty well, but my German ears still couldn't understand it(if I knew it was a German name, than maybe)
Hi Layne et al, I'm still wondering / waiting to see if you will be ever responding to your own followers and Simon Hill regarding that study on protein consumption and longevity where you got it a little bit wrong at least and left out some important content? You have always represented yourself as open-minded and willing to change your mind and have done so, how come the omission in this case? Thx
I've been watching Kurzgesagt vids for a while and wondered what you would think of this one for sure
I need to know where you got that tshirt
I've heard this before and I can only go by my own experience. When I joined the Navy as a young man I was very overweight and by the end of my first enlistment I had lost over 50 lbs and I did it through calisthenics and running, lots of running. And I didn't change my diet and it sucked. Now many years later I'm in my 60s I have worked out consistently since my early military days and I have lost over 75lbs and I continue to keep it off and most of that is through exercise and my nutrition of course. Don't get me wrong I know the importance of nutrition which I have learned a lot from watching these videos as well as others .And for all these so-called studies that say the exercise makes you more tired or listless that's another form of bullshit! Exercise gives me energy and makes me more productive!! 🏋️🏋️🏃♂️🏃♂️🥊🥊🥋🥋
Good job staying active! How did your diet stay the same while you were in the navy? The navy didn´t provide food?
@@eetuhalonen9902 I would have to say that my education on nutrition was not very good. The Navy provided food in the mess hall but I was on a shore station so I would eat just regular food but looking back my diet wasn't that great. And yes now that I'm older I'm much more conscious of what I eat and I mainly eat for performance.
It's time for WhatTheFitness~
If exercise doesn't change your daily calorie burn, then why do Tour De France riders consume 5,000 - 8,000 calories per day during the tour? Obviously, exercise burns calories.
I think it means that if it was a regular person they would have burned 10k+. And with the time it would have gone down to 7k.
Didn't they make a revised version with Israetel ?
But the question is what’s the ideal amount of exercise on off days (minutes/week) that doesn’t interfere with lifting adaptations, doesn’t lead to too much fatigue and pays off compared to just lifting and diet. Many suggest 1 hour low to moderate intensity 5x/week.
Or if it even should be exercise (“cardio” session) or just daily step count goal (10-12k?)
And what about HIIT? Can it be done if each session is quite short? (Under 30 minutes)
Track your workouts and see what kind of effect cardio has on them. It´s not possible to give simple time recommendations. There is too much variance. Depends on your genes, your recovery and you can increase your work out capacity by getting into better shape.
I know what time it is!
Professional cyclists eat around 6000kcal a day in mostly carbohydrates and weigh about 65kg. Of course, exercise causes you to burn more calories.
Exactly my thought when watching the Kurz video! I eat around 4000 kcal a day on average and weigh around 172lb but according to what they said in that vid my calorie burn should be dropping down to the same as a sedentary person despite my active lifestyle.
@@archanag.5757 I'm not here claiming to have done the research, but it just doesn't make sense. Just look at the physique of almost all endurance based athletes. There's no way professional cyclists such as Tadej Pogacar have a TDEE of 6000kcal+ at rest. That's absurd.
The Hadza research is controlled for body size, so you're completetly wrong saying that if you shrink an obese American, he would burn less calories.
I think people should exercise for all the other benefits stated.
If they also want to lose weight, they should watch their diet AND also exercise because as you said it improves your appetite regulation, not because it will burn you 100kcal by running for 20 minutes.
If you move more, you burn more calories, there’s no way of getting around that.
@@CoreofShaneyou're missing the point of the research. If someone who was sedentary starts exercising (let's say half an hour a day), they will initially burn some more calories. However, the body will become more efficient through doing that exercise and then it levels back out again, burning pretty much the same daily calories. The person will be leaner which is a good thing, but the benefit from exercise in terms of calorie deficit won't last long. The research is simply saying don't rely on exercise to control weight, do it through calories in, and then use exercise for all the additional health benefits that comes with it.
@@noggintubeit won’t level back out again. If that were true professional marathoners who run marathons consistently wouldn’t have to eat above their sedentary maintenance to maintain their weight.
@@LilFadertoo you're using extremes. The research compares the averages of the different populations. You also miss the point.
@@noggintube I am not.
The body becomes more efficient by becoming FITTER. Meaning that person can now exercise harder during that given amount of time and burn more calories.
It will always require X amount of energy to move an object a Y amount of distance. For example: A 150 lb person will always require around 100 calories to move the distance of a mile. Work (Energy) = Force * Distance
There is no getting around that equation.
The difference here is the fitter person, can now walk that one mile faster…
What about the case of the body getting more efficient and thus burning less calories than when you first started?
As you get fitter you can exercise at a higher level of intensity and/or more time for the same perceived effort so this is actually the reverse of this much quoted effect.
Surprisingly that video was done in colaboration with Mike Israetel and a nutrition expert tha lt also appears in some of his videos
Never would have thought a Kurgesagt video in what the fitness.
If you watch the whole video you see everything you just sad 😢😢😢😢
They there are a team and a German company
I know sitting on the couch certainly doesn’t help lose weight
Have you spoken to Herman Pontzer of his gross miscalculation? lol im sure in 5-8 years of his research experiment the obvious size difference between an average American and average Hadza didn’t cross his mind
I really like Layne but It seems like he never responds to criticism or ever corrects his statements, at least not in video format.
Talking about examples versous what typical will happen for a big group of people (that has been mislead that tranining is THE way to loose fat), isn't the same. We can all misunderstand Kurzgesagt if we want to. Many did in their first video. Enough to the point where they remade it to clarify some stuff. Internet can be a harsh place when we all start with our elbows out.
My workout DOES help me lose weight and it is because if I am lifting and running with a view to lose weight, it very much puts my head in the game, game face on, like rambo, gearing up and I am more likely to restrict my calories because I feel that I am working towards being ripped and muscular. If I dont work out I more often then not give up on my diet. If working out was put into a pill and the pill was advertised as "this pill will mentally strengthen you to stick to your diet" then hell yeah I would take that pill. And I do.
Watch the full video. There's many other points that need addressing
What about Michael Phelps and his 9k ish calories per day. Means that his body burns thousands of extra calories because of movement.
i know this soudns weird, but Dr. Norton, you are too buff for your mic. As you turn right (moving your right side upwards), it muffles your mic and got that audio inconsistency. Not sure how you can fix this other than wearing it the other way or use a different mic.
As a competitive cyclist and lifter I would love it if i could eat as much when im not training hard as when I am. Or maybe i wouldn't, it's a lot of work😂
This is why Layne's carbon diet app didnt work for me. I could do an easy 500 calorie spin one day and a 3000 calorie ride the next and there was no way to compensate for that acute deficit.
I think you should have been harsher on this one.
He basically repeats the magical belief that energy balance doesn't matter.
Which is one of the central ideas stopping people to even try.
I’ve lost 90 lbs in the last 2.5 years through diet, resistance training, and step tracking. I call BS on this.
Apples to Oranges. To many variables to compare. Takehome message ex exercise and eat wisely. 🦊🏋🏻🏊🏻🧨
Bump 💪🏼
For the algorithm!
I’d like to see you run it back with Saladino and Baker. They smoked you last time, maybe you can bring some better “data” and less “feelings”
He forgot to mention that the human body is also very efficient when it comes to storing energy, and that hunter-gatherers would certainly be obese were they presented to a culture of highly caloric comfort foods too. What forces energy compensation to be optimized is the absence of excess calories in an environment with high caloric demands. It’s not a magical trick that makes the body burn more energy than it needs. Kurz gesagt, it’s just another example of aweful mischaracterization of scientific data.
Kurzgesagt is The Sun of youttube channels.
Layne, I love you. I watch all your videos and basically follow all your advice.
However, when you call Kurtzgesagt "this guy" it's a little irritating. It's actually a whole team and they research the shit out of everything they write, consulting multiple experts, extensively fact checking, etc. They've detailed their process before and the amount of work they put into to each video is staggering.
Just a little nit pick, love u bro.
It's 2024, and we're still arguing against exercise. Mankind has no hope.
Come on now, the argument wasn't against exercise, it was just arguing that exercise is not an effective way to lose weight specifically. I think the argument was not correct in that it was not appropriately taking into account the benefits of exercise towards weight loss, but at the end of the video it clearly said you should exercise for different reasons. The video was very pro-exercise. You're spreading more misinformation in this comment than the video was.
Think the whole video makes it a bit more clear where they wanna go with this message, it's not awfully wrong what they are saying, just too oversimplified for its own good.
💪🏿💪🏿
The mic can't handle the sheer volume of Layne's pecks.
100% agree with you but i have a very strang expirence here that i wanna put out. I think that resistance training specifically increases your weight (fat, muscle and bone) but it might decrease the bodyfat percentage. I remember that before when i got to 90kg i was very sluggish, and didin't look so good, now i'm 93kg and i look and feel better, added some muscle and i believe i'm still "leaner" in the sense that my bodyfat percentage is lower despite having more fat mass as well.
I went from 136kg to 94kg by just dieting. I didn't exercise whatsoever.
It's all about cico. I experimented with all the diets and feeding protocols. In the end I found that having a light and flexible Mediterranean diet of high protein, high carbs, high fiber, low fat and no junk food was the best way.
"...the best way for me *"
For the algorithm
Why are you taking a landscape video, cropping it into portrait, then surrounding it with a migraine-inducing blurred border? It was already perfectly landscape! There was no reason to make our eyes bleed!
you need to fire your audio guy.
This short is taken out of context. The whole video does a better job of explaining the science. It is anything but anti-exercise if you care to give it a watch.
This is a big L for OP
Four thee Al Gore rhythm!!!
lol - "This guy". Yep, just one of the largest science channels on TH-cam with 50x the audience of Layne. Layne is great and I'm thankful for the sharing of his insights and knowledge, but his ego is just cringe.
I haven't watched that channel in years so maybe they improved, but when I was still watching them they would often way oversimplyfy complex issues and present in a biased one sided way, and also occasionally make some pretty basic mistakes so eventually I lost trust in them and stopped watching.
Algorithm
For the