Good Afternoon, I've started watching your videos and you seem like you really know what your doing. My wife owns a 2017 ford explorer 2.3. This car has been nothing but issues. The latest issue is a clunking sound from the passenger back. It used to be when we would slow down and turn. The shop manager at the dealership claimed it was the brakes. Did the brakes not it. Now its back and worse. Now it seems to be when we speed up. They also claim no recalls on anything of that manner. They had it last time for two weeks and said the brakes was the issue. Any ideas?
Here's my take from what I understand. The phasers are locked out until sufficient oil pressure is built up. Then they start moving when there is oil pressure. The noise comes from wear on the phasers when operating. Putting those two together you'd conclude that wear should only be happening significantly when there is poor lubrication during their operation. And that poor lubrication would be from worn out oil. Therefore, the best way to prevent this is by changing your oil often and using high quality oil. The pre oilers seem to only mask the wear on the phasers, not prevent it. Even with a pre oilers, not changing the oil frequently enough or using high quality oil would cause wear on the phasers. You wouldn't know though - because you masked the noise with the pre oiler.
I always heard these huge numbers for cold start gauling in automotive and wondered why on earth this is not done on everything that uses oil. I followed Moroso's installs in the 80's but that was the only product I could find. This is great and thanks for the video!
I have a Ford F150 that I purchased new in 2013. The cold start rattle was there from the beginning and after watching many videos I knew eventually I would have to go in and do some repairs. By happenstance I changed the oil and installed a Purolator Boss engine oil filter instead of the usual Motorcraft OE filter. Much to my surprise the cold start rattle went away. Now 10 years later and 170,000 miles still no cold start rattle. I've wanted to report this for a while but didn't know a good way to do it. After seeing your video of the pre oiler I though it was time to share. My guess is the check valve on the Boss filter is superior to the Ford brand and this simple fix has been a life saver.
Interesting! Never thought of this for cars. I work for an air museum, and two of the aircraft we operate are P-51 Mustangs, and we have installed pre-oil pumps on both. Though electric pumps, we run them for a couple minutes prior to every start to get oil up into the cams in the Merlins.
I personally feel like every car should come with a built in pre oiler. A separate pickup tube/12v pump that sucks up oil when the engine turns off and moves it to a small reservoir, then pre injects it into the system before the engine cranks. Ideally this is what i’d want in all my vehicles regardless of make or model.
I like the "long crank" start delay option. Starter...already there...battery...already there. Just up the start delay to 20 crank revolutions with a programming tweak. In the old days we just pulled the coil wire.
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These types of solutions have been around for a long time. I knew a guy that had a pre-oiling system installed on a 1973 Charger with a 400 V8. That engine lasted a very very long time. The owner would cycle the pump for about 30 seconds prior to starting the engine.
I had a conversation the other day about this. I live in northern Iowa, so winter temperatures here can get pretty cold. The idea came up of why car manufacturers don't include an electric jockey pump to siphon off the bottom of the oil pan and pre-lube the engine a few seconds before cranking. Glad to see there's other people thinking about this.
The simple answer is because it's not required for a properly designed engine to last several hundred thousand miles, making it an unnecessary expense and point of failure from the manufacturer's perspective.
@@jerryjeromehawkins1712yea they’ve been available since the 80’s but they have NEVER been installed by the manufacturer. Hop off your soap box big dawg. 😊
To clarify on something this OP said about accumulators. It's the air pressure that pushes that 2, or so quarts into the engine as you crank, then once the engine is running and builds it's own pressure up, the accumulator fills back up, then you shut the valve and you're ready for the next time you start up. In racing applications, you'd leave this valve open just in case of really hard cornering, the pickup briefly sucks air, then the accumulator comes in and saves the engine. Been around for decades. Accusump is a performance brand. EDIT: This device from Master Lube is fully automatic and all you need to do is keep an eye on the tank pressure.
Very interesting. Clearly will do the job. Soon cars will look like the Back to the Future DeLorean with hoses and gizmos running in, out and on the vehicle. 😁🐶
I have thought for long time, that all vehicles should have a pre oiler. But of course car factories stay in business by selling new cars, not necessarily selling parts to keep it on the road. The industry i was in , was the same way, its common marketing now days, on pretty much every product.
Watching this makes me wonder if a set up like that could help a Ram Hemi engine get oil to the top of the engine faster and helping to reduce the chance of the roller bearings and lifters to get oil faster. I have seen videos that have a strong arguement that what has caused those failures has been lack of lubrication at idle speeds. Models used by Police and contractors that have long idle periods seem to have the most failures. I know its not a Ford, but watching this made me wonder if something could be done to increase the lubrication of the roller bearings on Ram Hemi engines. My company uses a lot of Ram trucks, but always traded them in at around a 100k well with the chip shortage they have been forced to keep trucks longer and therefore face a high chance of running into that issue. Our trucks have to idle for long periods of time in the work we do. Can't even find Ford Work trucks right now it really sucks when you have a business that depends on work trucks:P
Never have we experienced this on our 2016 2.7 F150 FX4, but i make it a point do brake and gas crank before i do a start, trucks got 172K miles original turbos and catch can, bigger inner cooler, synthetic oil every 5k from day one. this vehicle runs like new
I've got an 2013 platinum f1titty 300k all original Michigan truck no rattling at all. Oil changes every 4k 1 bottle full synthetic Lucas added to motorcraft 5w30 everytime. Still purrs like a kitten
My 2015 f150 3.5 EcoBoost developed a rattle. instead of bringing it in I did some troubleshooting. Thankfully In my case it was failed clamps on the muffler heat shield. Easy fix!
Look in my library you will see that I already have videos on this most people that figured out where the rattle was through research and ended up coming from my video and then sharing it on other platforms but they got that from me
I flood start my 2015 Expedition until the oil pressure gauge reads OK in the winter and it takes care of the problem. I don't do this in summer because I only get a very slight and short rattle when the outside temp is above 70.
@@bmac6721 Set your display so it shows your oil pressure status. Then hold the gas pedal to the floor and turn the key. Let up on the gas when the oil pressure says OK. See also the update I just posted.
Serious question: is adding excessive wear on battery/starter motor/flywheel as well as introducing excessive fuel into the cylinders on every startup really worth it for a 1 second startup noise? Reason I ask is that I have been UNABLE to find a single example of this cold startup phaser rattle being the actual cause of a catastrophic engine failure, or even any driveabilty issues! Please, if someone else has proof of this, post it here for us all. Until then, has our infatuation with a noisy cam phaser possibly blown it all out of proportion?
Can you add the link to the product in your description so we can look and purchase? This product sounds like a great way to prevent a lot of problems with the eco boost engines.
Marvel mystery oil started this long time ago. I got one of their originals. It’s inverse, so less vacuum more oil, higher vacuum less oil. It oils when engine is working harder.
I am NOT an expert on the 3.5L engine, and I am NOT pretending to be an expert. I have been a cam phaser engineer on a few different engines, and on those engines we did a lot of investigations into a cold start rattle, cold start rattle after extended non-use, and starting/injection/spark/catalyst issues for first ~10 seconds of emissions. Our IndiCom2 setup was millions of dollars, and we spent a ton of money on cold start tests, both at room temperature and in a cold room. I wish that I could be around to see what exactly is going on to better understand things. Preoiling should not be needed, so what else is going on to cause that rattle? I am not contradicting anyone or saying that anyone is wrong. I am wanting to understand what EXACTLY is being "covered up" to stop the noise with a preoiler. I know what we did to stop that rattle and what we did to make sure that the rattle did not appear with use or wear. I want to better understand. I also want to better undertand to make sure that the engines I design do not have a similar issue. Phasing is scary stuff for an engineer. I want to learn, so I can be a better engineer. The questions I have are part of being an active listener. Good dealer techs are a big plus for me.
I'll tell you what's going on it's the Locking pin that neutrals out the phaser on cold start and when you begin to build up oil pressure it unlocks that pin so it doesn't rattle Some people are reporting that they're losing oil pressure at the mega caps because of the way the cylinder heads are designed on the front of the camshaft which is taken away from the oil pressure or flow that gets to the oil galleys in the phaser
So essentially what ends up happening is on cold start that PIN in the cam phaser that supposed to lock it out until oil pressure is built up it's not actually doing its job and it's sit there and rattles around until enough oil pressure is built up and it's unlocked
@@D2O2 The phasers I've replaced had significant wear in the bore that the locking pin sits in. Not sure if the backing plate is too soft or if the VCT solenoids are allowing pressure past enough to keep the pin partially disengaged and cause the excessive wear. Either way, prior to the reprogram I would see the ones we put phasers in come back shortly after rattling again. After the reprogram I've not been seeing them come back. So either they fixed the faulty phasers or something in the reprogram helped the situation.
There is a newer high flow oil pump for the 3.5 that has bigger spring. Its on the FordTechMakoloco channel. It pumps significantly more oil on cold starts and really helps on older engines.
Hey Ford Boss Me I got a 2013 f-150 3.5 ecoboost I had that cam phaser rattle I put DT 550 in the engine oil every 3 years and no noise issues at all. It started the noise at 30,000 miles know I got 177,500 miles on the original phaser. You should watch there videos on TH-cam. I am putting it in Differential transmission Transfer case
It has been nearly a year and 12,000 miles since I started using the flood start technique to stop the phaser rattler. I combined this with a few maintenance modifications and now I do not get any phaser rattle when I use the flood start when the temperature is below freezing and only get a slight rattle when I don't. I don't get any phaser rattle when the temperature is in the 70's. I think a lot of my problem stems from the previous owner not changing the oil and/or the type of oil and filter he used. I had the Ford dealership change the oil before I took delivery and they used Motocraft modified synthetic oil. This may not have anything to do with the phasers, but they failed to empty the aftermarket oil catch can because they didn't know what is was. It replaces the OEM PCV valve and separates oil from the unburned gas before it is recycled into the intack manifold. Mine was full beyond the baffle so it was recyclying the crud and doing more harm than good. I changed the oil again at 5,000 miles but this time I used a full synthetic oil (I can't remember the brand) and made sure to empty and clean the catch can. My phaser ratter was still there but was improving. I changed it again after another 5,000 miles but this time I used Mobil 1 High Mileage full synthetic oil with an OEM Motocraft filter. The catch can was about half full but still below the baffle. I chose Mobil 1 because my next door neighbor works for a company that supplies the chemicals that the various oil brands use. He said thay many brands substitute components because of cost and supply chain issues but that Mobil insists upon an exact match to keep their product consistent. I also watched the Project Farm comparison of high mileage oils and Mobil 1 high milage came out on top when it came to how it flowed. I chose the OEM Motocraft filter because it seems to have a better design for ensuring that oil can quickly flow through the filter. However, it does not have as much filtration material as more expensive brands and will not last as long. I am 2,500 miles into this oil change and had only a very slight rattle without using the flood start technique when it was 20 degrees outside. But I didn't get any rattle when I used the flood start. The bottom line for me is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Edit - Just went through the bomb cyclone with temperature below zero. Used the remote start and it cranked but didn't start on the first try. Started right up on the second remote start with no phaser rattle. A couple of days later temperature was 5 degrees. Started with the key without flood start. Again, no phaser rattle.
I've had more people use Pennzoil Ultra platinum and come out further ahead by far then mobile mobile actually overall not just cold flow testing is like middle of the pack if not just a little lower it's not actually very good in the grand scheme of things but Pennzoil Ultra is even better by far than most of the oils on the market or Valvoline extended protection or Valvoline advanced it's all better than mobile with a much higher additive pack
@@FordBossMe I don't have any experience with other brands and can't disagree. But one thing I forgot to add about the Mobil 1 High Mileage is that I think the Project Farm evaluator said that it does have one of the OEM certifications that may be necessary for warranty work. My truck has 167,500 miles on it and this doesn't concern me.
So you are saying when you bought the vehicle you had phaser rattle, and after a few consistent oil changes with premium oil it eventually fixed the rattle? This is huge. Have you seen what's involved in Ford actually replacing a phaser? I will NEVER have it done. Not worth it. But with your experience, it would seem the original noisy phaser is completely repairable with simply putting clean premium oil inside the engine.
@@peruser155 Regular oil changes with premium oil eliminated the rattle in my 2015 Expedition. However, even though the vehicle seems to be running perfectly with fuel economy in the 16-20 MPG range, my check engine light will occasionally light with one or more of three permanent codes; P054C Cold Start 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced Bank 2, P0016 Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A, and P0299 Turbocharger/Supercharger 'A' Underboost Condition. The vehicle has 170,000 miles and I don't know if I have an actual problem or just bad sensors. I just ignore and clear the codes with a Blue Driver code reader. Perhaps someone else can chime in. I eceived a recall letter last fall in regard to the blower motor that said that replacement parts would be available in the first quarter of 2023. I plan to have the codes checked out when I take it in for the recall. Permanent codes can only be cleared following a repair and I don't have the knowledge or tools.
@Roy-ij1wq Bummer about the persistent check engine light. You have to wonder if it's the phasers with those timing codes. Hope it keeps running good for ya...I've got 20K miles so got a ways to go but I do have phaser startup rattle, however, NO check engine light has ever popped up.
I have been suggesting this fix all along. Unless Ford were to redesign the phasers to fix the problem correctly, this is the only "permanent" fix. It will also likely make the rest of the engine last longer as well. This will also be much cheaper than a phaser replacement.
Yeah nobody was saying that you weren't many of us were actually suggesting this ahead of time you weren't the only one that was a very common thing that was resonated in the automotive Community but people don't listen to us
I just changed plugs in my 2016 3.5 eco boost. changed pass. side then started to make sure no misfire. all was good finished driver side and started it up and it is knocking like a diesel truck. No issues with Cam phasers or timing chain any suggestions
Cool design, honestly tho, these cam phasers don’t fail as hard or often if u use high quality oil and filter and change it every 3k miles or twice a year, seen many 5.4’s and 3.5’s not have cam phasers failure because maintenance was kept high for over 150-200k miles!
Help me guys. I live near Toronto Canada, an hour from Buffalo so we get cold winters up here. I have a 2012 3.5 Eco with 115,000 miles and i have religiously replaced my conventiinal oil and filter every 3000 miles. I noticed a 1 to 2 second rattle about a month ago on my initial start up for the day. Other starts are not an issue. I understand it to be the cam phaser. Will this get worse. Will it cause damage to the top end of the engine if these are not replaced. Does a oil additive like Lucas or STP help. Should I go to thicker oil, from a 5W to maybe a 10W. I know that the oil holes are tighter. Will going with a little thicker oil cause other problems down the road. I read that the replacement cam phasers have been redesigned to fix this problem. Is that true? I read that cam phasers usually wear out at 150,000 miles. Is that true? Thanks guys. Any info would be great.
I seen where I guy bought a new f150 with the 5.4 over head cams and after break in he said he's been running 15w40 and is at 380,000 miles and he was in Houston, Hellton because it's so hot there and does small hot shotting on the side and pulling a trailer
I've noticed another behavior. My cold start rattle went away with... cold weather. Seriously. Fresh oil, and it just went away. No, I didn't change the weight. Rattle was happening still after oil change, then winter full on hit and boom, nothing. Still planning on replacing the phasers this spring.
I just took my F150 in for the 21N08 because the previous owner did the 21B10 TSB. I noticed some of the troubleshooting for the 21N08 is to yank the electrical connector from the oil pump. I believe the connector they are referring to allows for the variable displacement/pressure. I'm curious, is there anything wrong with running it all the time unplugged? I cannot remember where I saw it but I had heard when it was unplugged, there was no CEL and it basically made the pump run at max pressure, which is what I'd want anyway (I know I might get ever so slightly worse gas mileage). Mine doesn't have any cam phaser noise at all, but between the flood start and perhaps keeping the oil pressure up to save the megacap for the cams, I'd like to keep it that way. Thank you for all these videos you have done about these cam phaser issues!
I'd install a manual oil pressure gauge and see if this un-plugging does what you want it to do. If memory serves, the electronic pumps lower the pressure at idle when you don't need a lot of pressure and reduces load, then at a pre-determined RPM, the value goes up and this won't cause a difference in MPG.
That's irrelevant I'm sharing something with you guys it may work for you if you're in a situation where you're stuck with vehicle can we please keep it about that and nothing else
I agree. I had a 2018 f150 5.0. Customers shouldn't be jumping through hoops just to avoid this defect. Shit was a nightmare. Sounded horrible leaving a parking lot or especially in a parking garage. The rattle was so loud. All my Chevy friends made fun of me. Ford is trash. Lol. Replaced it with a Titan and not a single problem for 3 years. Just gas and oil.
What I wonder is if the oil pump and oil system would benefit from higher flow. I think ford tech makuloco puts in a melling high flow pump in the 3v 5.4 engines.
My 4.6 rattled on start up with Motorcraft FL820 and synthetic oil. Using Pennzoil conventional oil it has almost no start up rattle. Does the synthetic oil drain off parts too fast? All I can come up with.
What would happen is this was installed on your truck that was still under factory warranty? Would the shop void the engine warranty, even though you may have increased the longevity of the engine?
Is there a way to control one of these pre-oilers using a relay and running off of the circuit that primes the fuel pump when the key is first set to RUN? I am not sure if the ECU just runs the pump, or if there is a separate circuit that kicks in just for priming? That would be ideal since it would pre-lube at the same time you're priming the fuel pump and give it a boost before it fires up. I had an older T-Bird and a connector in the column went out and it would only prime the fuel so it would start and die immediately, and had a bunch of other random electrical issues. Fixed the connector and it was back in shape so I assumed there was a start and run pump control circuit. Or maybe it was just missing a signal that made it not tell the ECU to run the pump?
I am curious as to how much that swiss-cheese K&N filter contributed to the noise by allowing dirt in. I had a Gen1 3.5 and kept it stock and it was silent for 104,000mi. The truck in this video is newer and, unless I am mistaken, a Gen2 3.5. Of course, I could have just been very lucky. God, I hope my diesel is that good. Those things are not cheap...
So to understand: there's a pin that should lock-in the phaser on cold starts/when there's little/no oil pressure at the phaser. When the oil pressure reaches a certain level, the pin unlocks the phaser. The rattle occurs when the pin fails to lock in the phaser during cold starts/low pressure. Is this a result of physical wear where the pin fails to go to the lock position, or something else? When I had Ford do the phaser replacement back in late Oct., I was told that the phasers had been re-engineered and that the issue shouldn't re-appear. Is this not the case? Are they the same phasers as before? I thought I saw somewhere that there was a new design that had a new casing around the phaser that didn't exist in previous builds. I also noticed that after the phaser replacement, the crank time on cold start seems to have been extended by a few seconds (maybe my imagination).
You will see that it is a redesigned phaser and it has a cap on the spring it looks like a better design I have videos where I talk about these other things so yes they have updated it and yes what you just explained is correct with the old design I have shown people that new design and I showed them the failure of the old design before I even pulled it apart so people could see what I was talking about if you look at my 2018 Ford F150 phaser replacement in my videos under my live feed section you will see exactly what I'm talking about
Is there no recall or service bulletin on this ? I’ve had a 2018 raptor for 6 months and it just broke down on me travelling from Texas to Tuscaloosa Alabama. It’s now sitting at Tuscaloosa ford who only has 1 engine mechanic and the worst part is I have caught the service manager lying and now I don’t think I can trust any work done by them.
@Ford Boss Me - Sorry if you've answered this question before. What oil do you recommend for a 2011 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost? I just purchased it used with about 57,500 miles on it. Thanks!
I have a 2012 F-150 5.0 Coyote, 267,000 miles. Just replaced timing chains, phasers, solenoids and while at it installed Melling high pressure oil pump. Oil change intervals based on dashboard indicator turned out to be approximately 10,000 miles per change using only Motorcraft 5W-20 and Motorcraft filters. Reason for the timing system work was light ticking sound at idle and parnoia about worn chain guides and chains causing major failure if ignored. As suspected guides totally shot, primary tensioner pistons fully extended, out of travel for chain tensioning. Inside of engine was completely clean no sludge or varnish anywhere all aluminum surfaces still silver. Engine now rattles a little louder at start up and idle and the rattle is more knock like when oil is warmed up. Once off idle and over 1000 RPM, all silent and power is fine throughout the RPM range. I suspect that at this highbof mileage, bearing clearances are opend up such that oil pump will not push enough oil at idle to properly seat phaser lock pins. Your Thoughts on the bearing wear guess? and possibility of helping things with 10W-30 Also, I have a Moroso Accusump left over from a performance car project do you think that and sitcking with the 5W-20 is the better plan. Thoughts. thanks for your efforts on educating us all on Phaser function.😊
Next time you do an oil analysis video, can you comment on PEA fuel additives. I have a direct injection engine and I put a bottle of Techron concentrate in at every oil change. What is your opinion? Inquiring minds want to know.
I’m a head lab tech for chevron. In all honesty you shouldn’t need to put a bottle in at every oil change. If you get gas at a chevron or Texaco station it has Techron. I spent 5 years doing octane testing and maintenance on the engines and we added Techron to the gas before testing and it kept the top of the pistons and the intake valves really clean.
@@Bushy556 I’m just north of Detroit. We don’t have Chevron or Texaco. We have Speedway/ Marathon, BP or mom and pop. All gas around here, regardless of branding, comes out of the Marathon terminal in south west Detroit.
I have so many questions now, I have a 2018 F150 3.5 eco also. After oil changes I always do a wot pre oil. I did notice he used 0/30 and not 5/30. startup is hard on any engine. I went from motorcraft to wix xp filters and the startup rattle stopped. Also isnt there a new oil pump available for these engines now.
I have a 2014 explorer with a 3.5 ecoboost. It rattles when i start it.. but now im having a problem that the engine will crank but it wont start until like the second or third crank, took to the dealership, they didnt find a problem, took it to a mechanic, he said it was the high pressure fuel pump.. well ended up switching it. And affer a couple days it started doing it againg…. would you think both problems are related?
My question is how or if this modification would affect the vehicle warranty? It seems to me that this would be a good proactive approach towards keeping the cam phasers from wearing in the first place.
Can this kit be installed on a 5.0 2018 F150? I'm getting the cold start rattle also and random miss fire on cylinder 1. I I want to put a kit on like this as soon as I get my Cam fazer's replaced So I don't have this issue come back
I have a 2014 F-150 with the 3.5 EB. This rattle has only occurred 2x in 112k miles and both times were after sitting for 1 week+. Am I just lucky or is there something different about the later motors that causes it more frequently?
I haven't seen as much rattle with older 3.5 Ecoboost. I think this started when Ford went with dual injection tech. Older Ecoboost don't really rattle much. Phasers wear out 150k-250k miles, depending on maintenance. What are your thoughts?
The phasers wouldn’t rattle, but the timing chains would stretch and that would rattle on cold starts. Both gen 1 and gen 2 3.5 Ecoboost have cold start rattle issues.
When you say "wear out," how? Does it throw a code and suddenly run very poorly? Blow the heads off one day? How would a guy know if the phasers are "worn?"
I been doing the whole pushing the gas pedal down to build oil pressure before staring, so I'm not able to remote start. Will adding this allow me to be able to build ok pressure and remote start?
My 02 f150 had that start up noise I tried something I. Use to put in my engine back in the day is tried and true is slick-50 treatment and it stoped making noise at start up
I have a F150 with 180K it started this rattle at about 160,000 only after sitting more than 24 hrs. I simply do the pre-start crank method for 2 seconds and it invariably starts with no rattle. Do you think this 2 seconds can actually do damage, especially on a 180K engine? Love to hear opinions.
It's a noise. It won't detonate your engine. I have been searching for months and cannot find a single example of it causing driveability issues or ruining a motor. Please, if anyone here has heard of engine failure from this 1 second cold start noise, post the proof. For all of us.
Correct me if I´m wrong, I think the 3.5 Ecoboost uses 5W-30 oil. I see he´s pouring 0W-20. I believe he could use 0W-30, but anything lower will not protect well.
You're right, but I have experimented on this truck and I do oil analysis on every change and I find that 0w20 in colder weather is better for my truck for the startup issue. I'll go back to 3w30
@@FlatlineLancer Oil analysis are very useful, you may try a good synthetic 0W-30 and see how the analysis comes back. Is just a suggestion, you probably know best. Nice install on the pre-oiler by the way. Good luck!!!
@@supers0nic77 It’s very possible that start/stop systems accelerate engine wear, but not as much as a cold start. When the engine is started cold, it runs without oil momentarily before the oil system is pressurized. Also, clearances are not what they would be when the engine is warm.
2012 3.5 had the rattle at 85 K. Never used cheap oil or filters. Did the repair and then last year at 150K rattle is back. Don't think the repair I had was one of the later ones so it didn't get the new parts. Still seeing this going on with later engines is just sad. The Ecoboosts have never been good from my experience and everything i hear. No way I am buying an truck with one of these again.
It sucks that customers need to buy aftermarket stuff to fix problems the the manufacturers won't fix. Why won't they change the design? I haven't heard of the 2.7L Ecoboost having phasor issues. Do they use a different phasor?
The 2.7 L EcoBoost typically don't do it if they are designed from a completely different design team and the team that created the 2.7 EcoBoost is the same 6.7 L Powerstroke team
@@FordBossMe Interesting. I didn't know that. I haven't heard of many issues with the 2.7. I currently own an f150 with the 3.7L and had zero problems with it other than wanting a little more power. What's your thoughts on the 2.7?
Rich ,This doesn't concern me because I have a 2021 F-150 with the 5.0 V-8 BUT if the engine has the proper oil level would this type of per oiler over fill the crankcase, When I 1'st saw this link I thought they were talking about an electric pump that would use the crank case oil to to pre oil / lube the engine .
I think people have but you still have that initial delay for the first second or two so you're still going to get some kind of rattle doesn't matter what pump you put in it
Who do you think will take the time to fill the air tank /bladder with air 3-4 times a week (according to number of cold start-ups per day)?? Today's drivers do not even check the engine oil level!
Why do you keep taking it in? Did Ford tell you that a 1 second noise on cold startup will destroy your engine? Because they told me it would not. They offered to pay for it but I declined after a buddy had all sorts of other problems after they tore his completely down over 3 days for a 1 second noise. I think I'll put up with the occasional cold start noise and not let them touch it.
@@peruser155 First time was the previous owner and they replaced the phasers with known part number that eventually fail. The second time they put the new and improved phasers in. If I recall it's only suppose to take 10 hours per the TSB. That wasn't the case for mine. It was a little bit longer. I was told the same thing that it wouldn't do any damage, but why not get it change on FORD's dime. Just in case they do ruin the engine.
I Have a 2019 Ford F-150 3.5L Ecoboost. From Edmonton, Alberta Canada Which Part Number is this Masterlube Oil Accumulator and Pre Oiler. I want to Source and Install this on my Recently Warranty Repaired on My Top End VCT Solenoids and Cam Phazers Thanks Brother
Such a Shame such a new vehicle has to go this route, which most people will never do! They do give you the other option with the Wide Open Throttle method, much better than nothing. And those low turning RPMs off the starter aren't very detrimental. Used to put a kill switch on low oil pressure at cold on cars years ago. A 66 442, took 20 seconds of cranking before any would register. Drove it another 2 years before it was rebuilt...
It seems to me that generally a pre oiler is a good idea but at 120k id think "damage is already done" and by installing one of these its just spending good money to cover up a deeper issue.
I understand your point but it's not actually how it works it prevents further damage so even if it's already been done it's still cheaper security than having to replace the motor or timing components so you're looking at it wrong there And if you actually listen to most people they've already had the phasers updated so it would prevent any further damage
Kinda odd really... I've replaced plenty of the phasers on 3.5Ls for the Rattle on Startup. The Rattle/ Knock never causes any CEL or Rough run concerns. Have not had a related Timing DTC set if it is rattling and have only seen 1 or 2 of these engines outright fail, in a North Canadian Town that sees severely cold climates and chocked full of trucks. Our dealer is very large and sells a lot of F150s/ Superduty's. I also worked at Toyota for many years and they also had a Cold Start Rattle TSB for VCT gear replacement back in early 2010's. Same idea never caused any problems but the noise. To go threw the trouble of trying to fix a noise that occurs only on startup that doesn't actually cause any other problems not a good idea. Adding on the oiler is more likely to cause problems than fix any.
Yes! Exactly my experience as well. A cold 1 second startup noise isn't worth all this. Even Ford says so, but has agreed to replace phasers by tearing your rig COMPLETELY down to nothing just to satisfy a few of its nervous customers. This after Ford says it's not even necessary for safety or driveability. Thank you for confirming my suspicions..
Hey everyone I figured out a free way to Prime the system before start up at least it works on my 2017 Ford Explorer EcoBoost, before you go and crank press the gas pedal all the way down and let it crank for a few seconds stop cranking release the gas time to key again Walla
Technically you're not supposed to modify anything coming from the manufacturer so I think if somebody wanted to be a jerk about it they probably could say something but I don't think most people would
Can’t you just hold down the gas pedal 100% then hit start. Crank till it builds pressure. Then just start it again normally and now the engine is prelubed?
You guys know this is an option I've talked about this before this guy just did not want to do that and if you actually clicked on his link like I asked you guys to do you could see that he actually reference this procedure in his video
So the timing chain tensioners aren't keeping tension without oil pressure. Treating the symptoms like this isn't a great solution, as this will still be losing tension while shut off and will still be working it's way towards skipping timing and doing the damage that you're worrying about.
I have so many hours tied up into explaining what's going on with this if you would look in the library that would be more helpful because I just have to keep repeating myself when people ask these questions and I know you don't mean any ill intent I would really love to just have people come to the channel and then look at rattle on Startup in the library and then just start watching videos instead of repeating over and over again It's typically a cold start issue and it's only on the 3.5 L EcoBoost
0w20….. I understand these tolerances are TIGHT in these newer ecos but that’s really thin man idk.. 5w20 killed the 5.4 and guys switched to 5w30 and it helped tremendously
Here is his full video
th-cam.com/video/T_QuLckdV_k/w-d-xo.html
Good Afternoon,
I've started watching your videos and you seem like you really know what your doing. My wife owns a 2017 ford explorer 2.3. This car has been nothing but issues. The latest issue is a clunking sound from the passenger back. It used to be when we would slow down and turn. The shop manager at the dealership claimed it was the brakes. Did the brakes not it. Now its back and worse. Now it seems to be when we speed up. They also claim no recalls on anything of that manner. They had it last time for two weeks and said the brakes was the issue. Any ideas?
Does the engine light on?
Here's my take from what I understand. The phasers are locked out until sufficient oil pressure is built up. Then they start moving when there is oil pressure. The noise comes from wear on the phasers when operating. Putting those two together you'd conclude that wear should only be happening significantly when there is poor lubrication during their operation. And that poor lubrication would be from worn out oil. Therefore, the best way to prevent this is by changing your oil often and using high quality oil. The pre oilers seem to only mask the wear on the phasers, not prevent it. Even with a pre oilers, not changing the oil frequently enough or using high quality oil would cause wear on the phasers. You wouldn't know though - because you masked the noise with the pre oiler.
@@4fifty8 Pre=oiling saves bearings, but it also primes the timing chain tensioners. Phasers dont cause chain rattle, or loose chains.
I have a 2017 Ford Raptor. Just started hearing the rattle. How long can I drive it being I’ll need to save a little bit.
I always heard these huge numbers for cold start gauling in automotive and wondered why on earth this is not done on everything that uses oil. I followed Moroso's installs in the 80's but that was the only product I could find. This is great and thanks for the video!
I have a Ford F150 that I purchased new in 2013. The cold start rattle was there from the beginning and after watching many videos I knew eventually I would have to go in and do some repairs. By happenstance I changed the oil and installed a Purolator Boss engine oil filter instead of the usual Motorcraft OE filter. Much to my surprise the cold start rattle went away. Now 10 years later and 170,000 miles still no cold start rattle. I've wanted to report this for a while but didn't know a good way to do it. After seeing your video of the pre oiler I though it was time to share. My guess is the check valve on the Boss filter is superior to the Ford brand and this simple fix has been a life saver.
Reminds me of the old Toyota 22R engine. They would do the same thing if you used a cheap oil filter.
Interesting! Never thought of this for cars. I work for an air museum, and two of the aircraft we operate are P-51 Mustangs, and we have installed pre-oil pumps on both. Though electric pumps, we run them for a couple minutes prior to every start to get oil up into the cams in the Merlins.
Anyway, really cool loooong history of this sort of thing being used effectively. Great video BOSS.👍
Thanks and good luck with your new home god bless
I personally feel like every car should come with a built in pre oiler.
A separate pickup tube/12v pump that sucks up oil when the engine turns off and moves it to a small reservoir, then pre injects it into the system before the engine cranks.
Ideally this is what i’d want in all my vehicles regardless of make or model.
They don't usually add things that will improve the longevity of engines. If they do that, they sell less.
Several days later and it's working flawlessly.
I like the "long crank" start delay option. Starter...already there...battery...already there. Just up the start delay to 20 crank revolutions with a programming tweak. In the old days we just pulled the coil wire.
Then you get to replace the starter once a year.
@@duckwacker8720 wear is much more likely "cycle based" than "duration based'
@@zaffo757 You can just hold the throttle to the floor and the truck will crank without starting. it will start as soon as you let go though.
@@enigma9789 ack. I just wish ford would do it for all vehicles through programming update. My wife isn't going to do this.
@@zaffo757 Ford replaced my phasers out of warranty for no cost. We will see if they do any better. They seriously need to fix this issue though.
Dog!!!!!! did you just !!!¡¡¡¡ that was badass.
I love this badness..
I appreciate you a lot to man the things you got going on is good for the community.
we cannot be locked down.
We should at least learn some kind skills you got a lot, I'm glad for the people in the community.
Thank you brother
We are just a team bro
These types of solutions have been around for a long time. I knew a guy that had a pre-oiling system installed on a 1973 Charger with a 400 V8. That engine lasted a very very long time. The owner would cycle the pump for about 30 seconds prior to starting the engine.
Holy cow ur on point, I just purchased one of these a month ago, and have been wandering if it would my expedition
I had a conversation the other day about this. I live in northern Iowa, so winter temperatures here can get pretty cold. The idea came up of why car manufacturers don't include an electric jockey pump to siphon off the bottom of the oil pan and pre-lube the engine a few seconds before cranking. Glad to see there's other people thinking about this.
This is a million dollar idea
@@SkyStarSystem These systems have been available since at least the 80s.
The simple answer is because it's not required for a properly designed engine to last several hundred thousand miles, making it an unnecessary expense and point of failure from the manufacturer's perspective.
@@jerryjeromehawkins1712yea they’ve been available since the 80’s but they have NEVER been installed by the manufacturer. Hop off your soap box big dawg. 😊
To clarify on something this OP said about accumulators. It's the air pressure that pushes that 2, or so quarts into the engine as you crank, then once the engine is running and builds it's own pressure up, the accumulator fills back up, then you shut the valve and you're ready for the next time you start up. In racing applications, you'd leave this valve open just in case of really hard cornering, the pickup briefly sucks air, then the accumulator comes in and saves the engine. Been around for decades. Accusump is a performance brand. EDIT: This device from Master Lube is fully automatic and all you need to do is keep an eye on the tank pressure.
I thank Lincoln my two, 3.0L Ecoboost don't have this rattle can issues. Fingers crossed 🤞
So glad I have the 3.3 no issues
Very interesting. Clearly will do the job. Soon cars will look like the Back to the Future DeLorean with hoses and gizmos running in, out and on the vehicle. 😁🐶
I have thought for long time, that all vehicles should have a pre oiler. But of course car factories stay in business by selling new cars, not necessarily selling parts to keep it on the road. The industry i was in , was the same way, its common marketing now days, on pretty much every product.
Ford should fix what they engineered and not necessitate an aftermarket device be installed to solve the noise.
this was a 2018 and did you hear all the repairs that were already made that 3.5 is a time bomb and a cash cow for ford service!
I'm about to get a new motor. 2019 Raptor. 45k phasers replaced and 60k I have the rattle again.
Agreed this is making me think of going back to Chevy or giving up on American and getting a Tundra.
@@TreadReview toyota all day every day. Only ford truck I would ever get is one with the 4.6
Yes they need to fix the junk they made
Watching this makes me wonder if a set up like that could help a Ram Hemi engine get oil to the top of the engine faster and helping to reduce the chance of the roller bearings and lifters to get oil faster. I have seen videos that have a strong arguement that what has caused those failures has been lack of lubrication at idle speeds. Models used by Police and contractors that have long idle periods seem to have the most failures. I know its not a Ford, but watching this made me wonder if something could be done to increase the lubrication of the roller bearings on Ram Hemi engines. My company uses a lot of Ram trucks, but always traded them in at around a 100k well with the chip shortage they have been forced to keep trucks longer and therefore face a high chance of running into that issue. Our trucks have to idle for long periods of time in the work we do. Can't even find Ford Work trucks right now it really sucks when you have a business that depends on work trucks:P
Never have we experienced this on our 2016 2.7 F150 FX4, but i make it a point do brake and gas crank before i do a start, trucks got 172K miles original turbos and catch can, bigger inner cooler, synthetic oil every 5k from day one. this vehicle runs like new
all engines should come equipped with electric pre crank oil squirt technology to the heads and piston pin to greatly improve engine service life
I've got an 2013 platinum f1titty 300k all original Michigan truck no rattling at all.
Oil changes every 4k 1 bottle full synthetic Lucas added to motorcraft 5w30 everytime. Still purrs like a kitten
I'm glad it's working for you but you're also reducing the oil additive package whenever you put that Lucas in with the already balanced oil
My 2015 f150 3.5 EcoBoost developed a rattle. instead of bringing it in I did some troubleshooting. Thankfully In my case it was failed clamps on the muffler heat shield. Easy fix!
Look in my library you will see that I already have videos on this most people that figured out where the rattle was through research and ended up coming from my video and then sharing it on other platforms but they got that from me
In my 2010 5.4 triton I run pennzoil platinum 5w30, high oil pressure and sounds great at 140,000 miles
Definitely a cool option. Personally, I’d just flood mode start to keep the rattle at bay if it happened. I’d get it then replaced soon after.
I flood start my 2015 Expedition until the oil pressure gauge reads OK in the winter and it takes care of the problem. I don't do this in summer because I only get a very slight and short rattle when the outside temp is above 70.
How do you do that?
@@Roy-ij1wq how do you do that?
@@bmac6721 Set your display so it shows your oil pressure status. Then hold the gas pedal to the floor and turn the key. Let up on the gas when the oil pressure says OK. See also the update I just posted.
Serious question: is adding excessive wear on battery/starter motor/flywheel as well as introducing excessive fuel into the cylinders on every startup really worth it for a 1 second startup noise? Reason I ask is that I have been UNABLE to find a single example of this cold startup phaser rattle being the actual cause of a catastrophic engine failure, or even any driveabilty issues! Please, if someone else has proof of this, post it here for us all. Until then, has our infatuation with a noisy cam phaser possibly blown it all out of proportion?
Can you add the link to the product in your description so we can look and purchase? This product sounds like a great way to prevent a lot of problems with the eco boost engines.
These were on everything years ago. Farmers wouldn’t start their equipment without it
Now that's a game changer.
Marvel mystery oil started this long time ago. I got one of their originals. It’s inverse, so less vacuum more oil, higher vacuum less oil. It oils when engine is working harder.
I would love to see the Marvel Mystery Oil set up
Poissorichard.rp@gmail.com
I am NOT an expert on the 3.5L engine, and I am NOT pretending to be an expert. I have been a cam phaser engineer on a few different engines, and on those engines we did a lot of investigations into a cold start rattle, cold start rattle after extended non-use, and starting/injection/spark/catalyst issues for first ~10 seconds of emissions. Our IndiCom2 setup was millions of dollars, and we spent a ton of money on cold start tests, both at room temperature and in a cold room.
I wish that I could be around to see what exactly is going on to better understand things. Preoiling should not be needed, so what else is going on to cause that rattle? I am not contradicting anyone or saying that anyone is wrong. I am wanting to understand what EXACTLY is being "covered up" to stop the noise with a preoiler. I know what we did to stop that rattle and what we did to make sure that the rattle did not appear with use or wear. I want to better understand. I also want to better undertand to make sure that the engines I design do not have a similar issue. Phasing is scary stuff for an engineer. I want to learn, so I can be a better engineer. The questions I have are part of being an active listener. Good dealer techs are a big plus for me.
I'll tell you what's going on it's the Locking pin that neutrals out the phaser on cold start and when you begin to build up oil pressure it unlocks that pin so it doesn't rattle
Some people are reporting that they're losing oil pressure at the mega caps because of the way the cylinder heads are designed on the front of the camshaft which is taken away from the oil pressure or flow that gets to the oil galleys in the phaser
So essentially what ends up happening is on cold start that PIN in the cam phaser that supposed to lock it out until oil pressure is built up it's not actually doing its job and it's sit there and rattles around until enough oil pressure is built up and it's unlocked
@@D2O2
The phasers I've replaced had significant wear in the bore that the locking pin sits in. Not sure if the backing plate is too soft or if the VCT solenoids are allowing pressure past enough to keep the pin partially disengaged and cause the excessive wear. Either way, prior to the reprogram I would see the ones we put phasers in come back shortly after rattling again. After the reprogram I've not been seeing them come back. So either they fixed the faulty phasers or something in the reprogram helped the situation.
There is a newer high flow oil pump for the 3.5 that has bigger spring. Its on the FordTechMakoloco channel. It pumps significantly more oil on cold starts and really helps on older engines.
@@D2O2 Exactly. The ones already rattling don't get fixed with the reprogram. We always have to replace the phasers afterward.
Hey Ford Boss Me I got a 2013 f-150 3.5 ecoboost I had that cam phaser rattle I put DT 550 in the engine oil every 3 years and no noise issues at all. It started the noise at 30,000 miles know I got 177,500 miles on the original phaser. You should watch there videos on TH-cam. I am putting it in Differential transmission Transfer case
It has been nearly a year and 12,000 miles since I started using the flood start technique to stop the phaser rattler. I combined this with a few maintenance modifications and now I do not get any phaser rattle when I use the flood start when the temperature is below freezing and only get a slight rattle when I don't. I don't get any phaser rattle when the temperature is in the 70's.
I think a lot of my problem stems from the previous owner not changing the oil and/or the type of oil and filter he used. I had the Ford dealership change the oil before I took delivery and they used Motocraft modified synthetic oil. This may not have anything to do with the phasers, but they failed to empty the aftermarket oil catch can because they didn't know what is was. It replaces the OEM PCV valve and separates oil from the unburned gas before it is recycled into the intack manifold. Mine was full beyond the baffle so it was recyclying the crud and doing more harm than good.
I changed the oil again at 5,000 miles but this time I used a full synthetic oil (I can't remember the brand) and made sure to empty and clean the catch can. My phaser ratter was still there but was improving.
I changed it again after another 5,000 miles but this time I used Mobil 1 High Mileage full synthetic oil with an OEM Motocraft filter. The catch can was about half full but still below the baffle. I chose Mobil 1 because my next door neighbor works for a company that supplies the chemicals that the various oil brands use. He said thay many brands substitute components because of cost and supply chain issues but that Mobil insists upon an exact match to keep their product consistent. I also watched the Project Farm comparison of high mileage oils and Mobil 1 high milage came out on top when it came to how it flowed. I chose the OEM Motocraft filter because it seems to have a better design for ensuring that oil can quickly flow through the filter. However, it does not have as much filtration material as more expensive brands and will not last as long. I am 2,500 miles into this oil change and had only a very slight rattle without using the flood start technique when it was 20 degrees outside. But I didn't get any rattle when I used the flood start.
The bottom line for me is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Edit - Just went through the bomb cyclone with temperature below zero. Used the remote start and it cranked but didn't start on the first try. Started right up on the second remote start with no phaser rattle. A couple of days later temperature was 5 degrees. Started with the key without flood start. Again, no phaser rattle.
I've had more people use Pennzoil Ultra platinum and come out further ahead by far then mobile mobile actually overall not just cold flow testing is like middle of the pack if not just a little lower it's not actually very good in the grand scheme of things but Pennzoil Ultra is even better by far than most of the oils on the market or Valvoline extended protection or Valvoline advanced it's all better than mobile with a much higher additive pack
@@FordBossMe I don't have any experience with other brands and can't disagree. But one thing I forgot to add about the Mobil 1 High Mileage is that I think the Project Farm evaluator said that it does have one of the OEM certifications that may be necessary for warranty work. My truck has 167,500 miles on it and this doesn't concern me.
So you are saying when you bought the vehicle you had phaser rattle, and after a few consistent oil changes with premium oil it eventually fixed the rattle? This is huge. Have you seen what's involved in Ford actually replacing a phaser? I will NEVER have it done. Not worth it. But with your experience, it would seem the original noisy phaser is completely repairable with simply putting clean premium oil inside the engine.
@@peruser155 Regular oil changes with premium oil eliminated the rattle in my 2015 Expedition. However, even though the vehicle seems to be running perfectly with fuel economy in the 16-20 MPG range, my check engine light will occasionally light with one or more of three permanent codes; P054C Cold Start 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced Bank 2, P0016 Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A, and P0299 Turbocharger/Supercharger 'A' Underboost Condition. The vehicle has 170,000 miles and I don't know if I have an actual problem or just bad sensors. I just ignore and clear the codes with a Blue Driver code reader. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
I eceived a recall letter last fall in regard to the blower motor that said that replacement parts would be available in the first quarter of 2023. I plan to have the codes checked out when I take it in for the recall. Permanent codes can only be cleared following a repair and I don't have the knowledge or tools.
@Roy-ij1wq Bummer about the persistent check engine light. You have to wonder if it's the phasers with those timing codes. Hope it keeps running good for ya...I've got 20K miles so got a ways to go but I do have phaser startup rattle, however, NO check engine light has ever popped up.
I have been suggesting this fix all along. Unless Ford were to redesign the phasers to fix the problem correctly, this is the only "permanent" fix. It will also likely make the rest of the engine last longer as well. This will also be much cheaper than a phaser replacement.
Yeah nobody was saying that you weren't many of us were actually suggesting this ahead of time you weren't the only one that was a very common thing that was resonated in the automotive Community but people don't listen to us
I just changed plugs in my 2016 3.5 eco boost. changed pass. side then started to make sure no misfire. all was good finished driver side and started it up and it is knocking like a diesel truck. No issues with Cam phasers or timing chain any suggestions
Cool design, honestly tho, these cam phasers don’t fail as hard or often if u use high quality oil and filter and change it every 3k miles or twice a year, seen many 5.4’s and 3.5’s not have cam phasers failure because maintenance was kept high for over 150-200k miles!
I've had the dealer use their recommended oil for all 3 years of its life at 5k mile intervals. That is the oil THEY designed. On my second phasers.
@@MXRockstar94 like I said, 3k intervals with full synthetic
I have a canton 1 qt accumulator on the shelf, I’d think a preoiler is good in any case
Help me guys.
I live near Toronto Canada, an hour from Buffalo so we get cold winters up here. I have a 2012 3.5 Eco with 115,000 miles and i have religiously replaced my conventiinal oil and filter every 3000 miles. I noticed a 1 to 2 second rattle about a month ago on my initial start up for the day.
Other starts are not an issue.
I understand it to be the cam phaser.
Will this get worse.
Will it cause damage to the top end of the engine if these are not replaced.
Does a oil additive like Lucas or STP help.
Should I go to thicker oil, from a 5W to maybe a 10W. I know that the oil holes are tighter. Will going with a little thicker oil cause other problems down the road.
I read that the replacement cam phasers have been redesigned to fix this problem. Is that true?
I read that cam phasers usually wear out at 150,000 miles. Is that true?
Thanks guys.
Any info would be great.
I seen where I guy bought a new f150 with the 5.4 over head cams and after break in he said he's been running 15w40 and is at 380,000 miles and he was in Houston, Hellton because it's so hot there and does small hot shotting on the side and pulling a trailer
I've noticed another behavior. My cold start rattle went away with... cold weather. Seriously. Fresh oil, and it just went away. No, I didn't change the weight. Rattle was happening still after oil change, then winter full on hit and boom, nothing. Still planning on replacing the phasers this spring.
I just took my F150 in for the 21N08 because the previous owner did the 21B10 TSB. I noticed some of the troubleshooting for the 21N08 is to yank the electrical connector from the oil pump. I believe the connector they are referring to allows for the variable displacement/pressure. I'm curious, is there anything wrong with running it all the time unplugged? I cannot remember where I saw it but I had heard when it was unplugged, there was no CEL and it basically made the pump run at max pressure, which is what I'd want anyway (I know I might get ever so slightly worse gas mileage). Mine doesn't have any cam phaser noise at all, but between the flood start and perhaps keeping the oil pressure up to save the megacap for the cams, I'd like to keep it that way. Thank you for all these videos you have done about these cam phaser issues!
I'd install a manual oil pressure gauge and see if this un-plugging does what you want it to do. If memory serves, the electronic pumps lower the pressure at idle when you don't need a lot of pressure and reduces load, then at a pre-determined RPM, the value goes up and this won't cause a difference in MPG.
You shouldn't have to buy a kit. Manufacturers should be taking care of this from the onset.
That's irrelevant I'm sharing something with you guys it may work for you if you're in a situation where you're stuck with vehicle can we please keep it about that and nothing else
I wouldn’t say irrelevant
I agree. I had a 2018 f150 5.0. Customers shouldn't be jumping through hoops just to avoid this defect. Shit was a nightmare. Sounded horrible leaving a parking lot or especially in a parking garage. The rattle was so loud. All my Chevy friends made fun of me. Ford is trash. Lol. Replaced it with a Titan and not a single problem for 3 years. Just gas and oil.
What I wonder is if the oil pump and oil system would benefit from higher flow. I think ford tech makuloco puts in a melling high flow pump in the 3v 5.4 engines.
Correct, he has that great video out. Gen 1 ecoboost. He says unfortunately not one out for 2018+ gen2 ecoboost.
How would this help the locking pin issue?
My 4.6 rattled on start up with Motorcraft FL820 and synthetic oil. Using Pennzoil conventional oil it has almost no start up rattle. Does the synthetic oil drain off parts too fast? All I can come up with.
No it actually lubricates clings to Parts better
What would happen is this was installed on your truck that was still under factory warranty? Would the shop void the engine warranty, even though you may have increased the longevity of the engine?
No
Is there a way to control one of these pre-oilers using a relay and running off of the circuit that primes the fuel pump when the key is first set to RUN? I am not sure if the ECU just runs the pump, or if there is a separate circuit that kicks in just for priming? That would be ideal since it would pre-lube at the same time you're priming the fuel pump and give it a boost before it fires up.
I had an older T-Bird and a connector in the column went out and it would only prime the fuel so it would start and die immediately, and had a bunch of other random electrical issues. Fixed the connector and it was back in shape so I assumed there was a start and run pump control circuit. Or maybe it was just missing a signal that made it not tell the ECU to run the pump?
I don't know LOL I'm still new to this system
I am curious as to how much that swiss-cheese K&N filter contributed to the noise by allowing dirt in. I had a Gen1 3.5 and kept it stock and it was silent for 104,000mi. The truck in this video is newer and, unless I am mistaken, a Gen2 3.5. Of course, I could have just been very lucky. God, I hope my diesel is that good. Those things are not cheap...
I left the link to his TH-cam
So to understand: there's a pin that should lock-in the phaser on cold starts/when there's little/no oil pressure at the phaser. When the oil pressure reaches a certain level, the pin unlocks the phaser. The rattle occurs when the pin fails to lock in the phaser during cold starts/low pressure. Is this a result of physical wear where the pin fails to go to the lock position, or something else?
When I had Ford do the phaser replacement back in late Oct., I was told that the phasers had been re-engineered and that the issue shouldn't re-appear. Is this not the case? Are they the same phasers as before? I thought I saw somewhere that there was a new design that had a new casing around the phaser that didn't exist in previous builds.
I also noticed that after the phaser replacement, the crank time on cold start seems to have been extended by a few seconds (maybe my imagination).
You will see that it is a redesigned phaser and it has a cap on the spring it looks like a better design I have videos where I talk about these other things so yes they have updated it and yes what you just explained is correct with the old design I have shown people that new design and I showed them the failure of the old design before I even pulled it apart so people could see what I was talking about if you look at my 2018 Ford F150 phaser replacement in my videos under my live feed section you will see exactly what I'm talking about
Is there no recall or service bulletin on this ? I’ve had a 2018 raptor for 6 months and it just broke down on me travelling from Texas to Tuscaloosa Alabama. It’s now sitting at Tuscaloosa ford who only has 1 engine mechanic and the worst part is I have caught the service manager lying and now I don’t think I can trust any work done by them.
@Ford Boss Me - Sorry if you've answered this question before. What oil do you recommend for a 2011 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost? I just purchased it used with about 57,500 miles on it. Thanks!
Motorcraft Full Synthetic 5w30 is the safest bet
But I personally run Penzoil Platinum Ultra
@@FordBossMe Thank you sir!
I have a 2012 F-150 5.0 Coyote, 267,000 miles. Just replaced timing chains, phasers, solenoids and while at it installed Melling high pressure oil pump.
Oil change intervals based on dashboard indicator turned out to be approximately 10,000 miles per change using only Motorcraft 5W-20 and Motorcraft filters. Reason for the timing system work was light ticking sound at idle and parnoia about worn chain guides and chains causing major failure if ignored.
As suspected guides totally shot, primary tensioner pistons fully extended, out of travel for chain tensioning.
Inside of engine was completely clean no sludge or varnish anywhere all aluminum surfaces still silver.
Engine now rattles a little louder at start up and idle and the rattle is more knock like when oil is warmed up.
Once off idle and over 1000 RPM, all silent and power is fine throughout the RPM range.
I suspect that at this highbof mileage, bearing clearances are opend up such that oil pump will not push enough oil at idle to properly seat phaser lock pins.
Your Thoughts on the bearing wear guess? and possibility of helping things with 10W-30
Also, I have a Moroso Accusump left over from a performance car project do you think that and sitcking with the 5W-20 is the better plan.
Thoughts.
thanks for your efforts on educating us all on Phaser function.😊
Any idea why the 3.5 na in the explorer never seems to have phaser issues? More aggressive phaser movement on the boosted version maybe? Just curious
Not the same phasers
Hey thanks for sharing this! About to buy a ford expedition 2019 and thinking of adding this on! Have the issue come back after installing this?
Ask the gentleman who did this, I was just covering the story his link is posted in the pinned comment
Next time you do an oil analysis video, can you comment on PEA fuel additives. I have a direct injection engine and I put a bottle of Techron concentrate in at every oil change. What is your opinion? Inquiring minds want to know.
Techron is actually legit it's pretty good
I’m a head lab tech for chevron. In all honesty you shouldn’t need to put a bottle in at every oil change. If you get gas at a chevron or Texaco station it has Techron. I spent 5 years doing octane testing and maintenance on the engines and we added Techron to the gas before testing and it kept the top of the pistons and the intake valves really clean.
@@Bushy556 I’m just north of Detroit. We don’t have Chevron or Texaco. We have Speedway/ Marathon, BP or mom and pop. All gas around here, regardless of branding, comes out of the Marathon terminal in south west Detroit.
Amzoil used to sell a pre-oiler.
I have so many questions now, I have a 2018 F150 3.5 eco also. After oil changes I always do a wot pre oil. I did notice he used 0/30 and not 5/30. startup is hard on any engine. I went from motorcraft to wix xp filters and the startup rattle stopped. Also isnt there a new oil pump available for these engines now.
He used 0w20
He should have used 5w30
As for the filters they will not stop rattle so that was a coincidence and good for you for finding that
I’m pretty sure I have some waste-gate rattle because I get a rattle under throttle but never anytime else, 27k miles 2020 3.5
I have a 2014 explorer with a 3.5 ecoboost. It rattles when i start it.. but now im having a problem that the engine will crank but it wont start until like the second or third crank, took to the dealership, they didnt find a problem, took it to a mechanic, he said it was the high pressure fuel pump.. well ended up switching it. And affer a couple days it started doing it againg…. would you think both problems are related?
Sounds to me like you might have some kind of timing chain issue
Buen día! ☀️
My question is how or if this modification would affect the vehicle warranty? It seems to me that this would be a good proactive approach towards keeping the cam phasers from wearing in the first place.
It shouldn't but it technically is a modification and I wouldn't install until after warranty is up
Trade it in when the warranty is up.
@@duckwacker8720 no thank you. Use it up. Wear it out. Make do with what you've got, or do without....Then rebuild and start over.
@@dougrea8260 The least expensive vehicle is the one you already have, so I agree with you, Doug.
I thought I saw a video that advised the cam phasers had a different part number? Usually that means a updated part?
Watch my video on a 2018
Can this kit be installed on a 5.0 2018 F150? I'm getting the cold start rattle also and random miss fire on cylinder 1. I I want to put a kit on like this as soon as I get my Cam fazer's replaced So I don't have this issue come back
I'm sure it can by using the same principles
I have a 2014 F-150 with the 3.5 EB. This rattle has only occurred 2x in 112k miles and both times were after sitting for 1 week+. Am I just lucky or is there something different about the later motors that causes it more frequently?
It will gradually get worse.
The earlier models didn't really have as much of a problem as 2016 and later models
@@FordBossMe Great to know. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.
I haven't seen as much rattle with older 3.5 Ecoboost. I think this started when Ford went with dual injection tech. Older Ecoboost don't really rattle much. Phasers wear out 150k-250k miles, depending on maintenance. What are your thoughts?
Same
The phasers wouldn’t rattle, but the timing chains would stretch and that would rattle on cold starts. Both gen 1 and gen 2 3.5 Ecoboost have cold start rattle issues.
When you say "wear out," how? Does it throw a code and suddenly run very poorly? Blow the heads off one day? How would a guy know if the phasers are "worn?"
@@peruser155 indicator would rattle during cold start. Properly maintained engine, I've seen as much as 350k without issues.
2011 has it
I been doing the whole pushing the gas pedal down to build oil pressure before staring, so I'm not able to remote start. Will adding this allow me to be able to build ok pressure and remote start?
No unless you find an active wire that hot only on cold start
@@FordBossMe I figured that. I missed being able to remote start in the mornings and afternoon after work.
Wouldn't lucas help with this as well to keep the upper parts lubed with oil film instead of all the oil draining back to the pan?
It may
I am also wondering about Prolong. Also, which Lucas, the HD, or the Synthetic?
My 02 f150 had that start up noise I tried something I. Use to put in my engine back in the day is tried and true is slick-50 treatment and it stoped making noise at start up
I remember slick 50!
I have a F150 with 180K it started this rattle at about 160,000 only after sitting more than 24 hrs. I simply do the pre-start crank method for 2 seconds and it invariably starts with no rattle. Do you think this 2 seconds can actually do damage, especially on a 180K engine? Love to hear opinions.
It's not really going to do any damage but it's also not going to fix anything either
It's a noise. It won't detonate your engine. I have been searching for months and cannot find a single example of it causing driveability issues or ruining a motor. Please, if anyone here has heard of engine failure from this 1 second cold start noise, post the proof. For all of us.
Correct me if I´m wrong, I think the 3.5 Ecoboost uses 5W-30 oil. I see he´s pouring 0W-20. I believe he could use 0W-30, but anything lower will not protect well.
You are correct but it's his vehicle I'm not going to tell him what to put in there he's got over a hundred thousand miles on it
You're right, but I have experimented on this truck and I do oil analysis on every change and I find that 0w20 in colder weather is better for my truck for the startup issue. I'll go back to 3w30
@@FlatlineLancer Oil analysis are very useful, you may try a good synthetic 0W-30 and see how the analysis comes back. Is just a suggestion, you probably know best. Nice install on the pre-oiler by the way.
Good luck!!!
Looks like amsoil bottle so he's fine.👍👍
Are pre oilers generally effective at extending engine life?
Sure they are I would recommend everyone of you actually go do some research go Google and see what you can find
So i wonder if auto start/stop creates more wear too. Especially since you have to accelerate right away after starting
@@supers0nic77 It’s very possible that start/stop systems accelerate engine wear, but not as much as a cold start. When the engine is started cold, it runs without oil momentarily before the oil system is pressurized. Also, clearances are not what they would be when the engine is warm.
2012 3.5 had the rattle at 85 K. Never used cheap oil or filters. Did the repair and then last year at 150K rattle is back. Don't think the repair I had was one of the later ones so it didn't get the new parts. Still seeing this going on with later engines is just sad. The Ecoboosts have never been good from my experience and everything i hear. No way I am buying an truck with one of these again.
Ford should be pre installing this for it's customers.
It sucks that customers need to buy aftermarket stuff to fix problems the the manufacturers won't fix. Why won't they change the design? I haven't heard of the 2.7L Ecoboost having phasor issues. Do they use a different phasor?
The 2.7 L EcoBoost typically don't do it if they are designed from a completely different design team and the team that created the 2.7 EcoBoost is the same 6.7 L Powerstroke team
@@FordBossMe
Interesting. I didn't know that. I haven't heard of many issues with the 2.7. I currently own an f150 with the 3.7L and had zero problems with it other than wanting a little more power. What's your thoughts on the 2.7?
@@FordBossMe is best 2.7L ecoboost recommend Because of more reliable than 3.5L ecoboost? What is your suggest for F150 ecoboost?
@@BlackdogDeaf the best f150 to get is the 5.0… I used to have an 18 f150 and it was great!
@@davidsanderford6124 great! Thank you so much!
What happened if not fix it at all?????/ iam using my car for 2 years with that / put still not to fix it because of sound only
Ford says nothing's really going to happen I don't know what happens if it's not fixed
Rich ,This doesn't concern me because I have a 2021 F-150 with the 5.0 V-8 BUT if the engine has the proper oil level would this type of per oiler over fill the crankcase, When I 1'st saw this link I thought they were talking about an electric pump that would use the crank case oil to to pre oil / lube the engine .
No it doesn't overfill the crankcase because it's always replenishing what's in the reservoir of the pre-oiler
@@FordBossMe , Thank You for the reply 👍👍.
Ampco vapor lubricator. Also has anyone tried the melling high volume oil pump for this problem?
I think people have but you still have that initial delay for the first second or two so you're still going to get some kind of rattle doesn't matter what pump you put in it
Do you have to pressurize the tank before startup?
It will do it for you
Who do you think will take the time to fill the air tank /bladder with air 3-4 times a week (according to number of cold start-ups per day)?? Today's drivers do not even check the engine oil level!
My '18 F150 is in for the 2nd time for the rattle. Ford is picked up both repairs and I just hit 61k. Might have to do this.
ford came out with an updated phaser with a way tighter spring so if they used that part on the second repair it should be good then
Why do you keep taking it in? Did Ford tell you that a 1 second noise on cold startup will destroy your engine? Because they told me it would not. They offered to pay for it but I declined after a buddy had all sorts of other problems after they tore his completely down over 3 days for a 1 second noise. I think I'll put up with the occasional cold start noise and not let them touch it.
@@peruser155 First time was the previous owner and they replaced the phasers with known part number that eventually fail. The second time they put the new and improved phasers in. If I recall it's only suppose to take 10 hours per the TSB. That wasn't the case for mine. It was a little bit longer. I was told the same thing that it wouldn't do any damage, but why not get it change on FORD's dime. Just in case they do ruin the engine.
The 6.7L PowerStroke team is known as the Scorpion Team.
I Have a 2019 Ford F-150 3.5L Ecoboost.
From Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Which Part Number is this Masterlube Oil Accumulator and Pre Oiler.
I want to Source and Install this on my Recently Warranty Repaired on My Top End VCT Solenoids and Cam Phazers
Thanks Brother
Look in the pinned comment all the way at the top of the comment section the original video is there
Does the engine light on if you have cold start rattle?
No
Such a Shame such a new vehicle has to go this route, which most people will never do! They do give you the other option with the Wide Open Throttle method, much better than nothing. And those low turning RPMs off the starter aren't very detrimental. Used to put a kill switch on low oil pressure at cold on cars years ago. A 66 442, took 20 seconds of cranking before any would register. Drove it another 2 years before it was rebuilt...
Why bother with the full throttle start method?
It seems to me that generally a pre oiler is a good idea but at 120k id think "damage is already done" and by installing one of these its just spending good money to cover up a deeper issue.
I understand your point but it's not actually how it works
it prevents further damage so even if it's already been done it's still cheaper security than having to replace the motor or timing components so you're looking at it wrong there
And if you actually listen to most people they've already had the phasers updated so it would prevent any further damage
If I don't want to change the defective cam phasers again from my raptor Can this be a 100% efective solution to avoid rattle at .cold start?
Possibly
@@FordBossMe thank your for your comment
Kinda odd really... I've replaced plenty of the phasers on 3.5Ls for the Rattle on Startup. The Rattle/ Knock never causes any CEL or Rough run concerns. Have not had a related Timing DTC set if it is rattling and have only seen 1 or 2 of these engines outright fail, in a North Canadian Town that sees severely cold climates and chocked full of trucks. Our dealer is very large and sells a lot of F150s/ Superduty's. I also worked at Toyota for many years and they also had a Cold Start Rattle TSB for VCT gear replacement back in early 2010's. Same idea never caused any problems but the noise. To go threw the trouble of trying to fix a noise that occurs only on startup that doesn't actually cause any other problems not a good idea. Adding on the oiler is more likely to cause problems than fix any.
It's just the gear itself that is shit, the pin wears out and can't lock properly
I've never seen a chain just like you said as well
Yes! Exactly my experience as well. A cold 1 second startup noise isn't worth all this. Even Ford says so, but has agreed to replace phasers by tearing your rig COMPLETELY down to nothing just to satisfy a few of its nervous customers. This after Ford says it's not even necessary for safety or driveability. Thank you for confirming my suspicions..
Rich, would this be beneficial for a gen 1 (2016) 3.5 ecoboost
This would benefit any engine
@@FordBossMe copy, thank you
Should he be using a 20 weight on a ecoboost I know that they require a 30 weight
It's 30 weight I don't know his reason why
Hey everyone I figured out a free way to Prime the system before start up at least it works on my 2017 Ford Explorer EcoBoost, before you go and crank press the gas pedal all the way down and let it crank for a few seconds stop cranking release the gas time to key again Walla
I've covered this already pal
It doesn't fix the problem
I've been preaching this for years, I was the first one to push this on the internet.
Good thing you figured that out
Would doing this void a Ford manufacture warranty on the vehicle, if you still had one?
To be honest with you if they came to my dealership I wouldn't say anything I would appreciate it but I cannot say that for everybody
Technically you're not supposed to modify anything coming from the manufacturer so I think if somebody wanted to be a jerk about it they probably could say something but I don't think most people would
Can’t you just hold down the gas pedal 100% then hit start. Crank till it builds pressure. Then just start it again normally and now the engine is prelubed?
You guys know this is an option I've talked about this before this guy just did not want to do that and if you actually clicked on his link like I asked you guys to do you could see that he actually reference this procedure in his video
@@FordBossMe gotcha never saw that video but I enjoy the content
Is this preoiler "The Real Mccoy"????
Would this thing void my warranty? 2018 with CPO warranty and extended warranty.
I'd have to say probably so
Ok I'll just prime it like your other videos suggest then. I have no rattle yet but don't want one.
Or, hold the gas pedal to the floor and it won't start putting it in a flood condition. Let the pressure rise and let off
I already have several videos on this buddy
I already recommend that
@FordBossMe Ford does have new style phasers. They are the ones on the new 2022-2023 models. It's an enclosed design
I’ll try this thanks! Will this put any wear on engine components or wear the starter?
So the timing chain tensioners aren't keeping tension without oil pressure. Treating the symptoms like this isn't a great solution, as this will still be losing tension while shut off and will still be working it's way towards skipping timing and doing the damage that you're worrying about.
Does anyone know if Chevy or Toyota have problems with their cam phasers on their turbo charged trucks or is ford the only one
Chevy has indeed
Thank you
Others do, but Ford is definitely the king of cam phaser issues.
Is this only a cold start issue? Or any weather issue?
I have so many hours tied up into explaining what's going on with this if you would look in the library that would be more helpful because I just have to keep repeating myself when people ask these questions and I know you don't mean any ill intent I would really love to just have people come to the channel and then look at rattle on Startup in the library and then just start watching videos instead of repeating over and over again
It's typically a cold start issue and it's only on the 3.5 L EcoBoost
Look in my library 21b10 and came phaser replacement
Also the original is much simpler and safer for ANY engine. And cheap!. Mine $75
0w20….. I understand these tolerances are TIGHT in these newer ecos but that’s really thin man idk.. 5w20 killed the 5.4 and guys switched to 5w30 and it helped tremendously