Ford 3.5L Ecoboost Cam Phaser Rattle/ The noise, The cause, The fix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ส.ค. 2022
- In this video I share my experience and knowledge of the Ford F-150 3.5L Ecoboost cam phaser rattle upon start up. I give a great example of what the noise sounds like. I also explain what, in my understanding, causes this issue by dissecting a cam phaser and showing the failed part. In addition to this I display how the cam phaser and camshafts behave while this noise is happening by rotating the crankshaft of a 3.5L with the valve cover removed so that the valve train can be seen in motion. Finally, I share my experiences with two different repair methods made available for to rectify this issue.
This noise that usually occurs upon start up after the vehicle has been sitting, not running, for several hours. Ford F-150s equipped with the 3.5L Ecoboost from 2013- roughly present day can exhibit this noise. It can also show up in the Ford expedition and Lincoln navigator equipped with the 3.5L Ecoboost.
Note: This is not a " how to" video. It is an informational video sharing "my understanding and experience with this problem and its repair". Please do your own research to confirm that the information found in this video is applicable to your vehicle. Also, this video is in no way meant to be taken as a guarantee that if you experience this noise on your vehicle that replacing the VCT units, a.k.a. cam phasers, will fix your problem. You must have your vehicle properly diagnosed to confirm that the cam phasers have failed in the manner shown in the video. This video does not give information on how to properly diagnose this issue. I give no guarantee that by using this video you will correctly identify your problem and correctly repair it. Use the information found in this video at your own risk.
GENERAL DISCLAIMER
Barbour's Auto Help is not responsible for any damage or personal injury incurred in the process of performing any auto repairs done by you the viewer. Automotive repair is extremely dangerous. Repair your vehicle at your own risk. It is the viewers responsibility to verify all information and procedures as outlined in YOUR REPAIR MANUAL AND OWNERS MANUAL FOR YOUR VEHICLE. Owning and using a repair manual suited for your vehicle is essential for correctly and safely performing ANY repair to your vehicle. Always wear safety glasses, protective gloves and heed all instructions for use applicable to any piece of equipment you may use. Due to circumstances out of the control of Barbour's Auto Help, Barbour's Auto Help makes no guarantee that by the use of the information given in this video a quality repair will be made. Barbour's Auto Help makes no guarantee that the information provided is totally complete, synchronized and accurate. Verify everything using an appropriate repair manual. Verify everything with your own research. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Folks, I've been getting a lot of questions about potential engine damage caused by this failure. I've made a video on it. Here is the link. th-cam.com/video/IM49mQupOoE/w-d-xo.html
This is the best video i've seen in reference to this issue/noise. Thank you....
Wow, thanks!
My 2011 F-150 is in the shop for the 2nd time for this. First repair lasted about 2 years.
My 2015 f150 3.5 EcoBoost developed a rattle. instead of bringing it in I did some troubleshooting. Thankfully In my case it was failed clamps on the muffler heat shield. Easy fix!
Fantastic video sir!
Thank you!
fantastic video. thank you! I am getting ready to DIY this repair over the weekend! :) For reference I have a '17, with 220,000kms and its been rattling since 90,000kms and I've had zero drivability issues other than the crazy rattle and hot idle tick.
That's awesome and thanks for the compliment. Let me know if you have questions. I'm pretty familiar with it.
@@BarboursAutoHelpWhat happens if you don’t fix it?
Glad to finally hear of someone just leaving the issue. Contemplating doing the same for mine. My truck didn’t qualify for the recall whatsoever, but still have the phaser issue
I got the recall letter about my 2019 and took it to Ford to update them in 2022. I hadn't heard any issue with them but they said it was an expensive repair and I was about to be out of the warranty period so I let them do it. It hasn't been 2 years or 30k Mike's and now they actually are making the rattling noise. I'm not sure if leaving it alone would've been better or not, but now I'm out of warranty and Ford said it costs about 2500.00 🙄
Great explanation! My '18 raptor is going under the knife today. Did the software update which fixed nothing, hoping to never deal with it again!
How did it go?
Thank you, huge help, I just bought a 2013 F150 3.5 litre eco boost and it rattles on start up, if you have any more suggestions would be great, but thank you for making this video!
Get ready to pay a crap ton
Really helpful. I have a rattle under load and this was one of the recommended solutions and mine does not have a rattle on start up so I don’t think this relates to my issue.
Thank you, I'm going to the ford dealer tomorrow to try and get them replaced.
Any luck?
This is a great video thank you for explaining the cam phasers. my 2017 F150 3.5 L eco-boost has to have its cam phasers replaced. truck only has 68,000 miles but the dealer is going to take care of it and it’s paid for by Ford thank God.
Glad to hear it!!
I have a 19 with the same mileage and they told me I have to pay for it. $3k. Just bought the truck three months ago. Not very happy.
I have an ‘18 F150 with 40,000 miles. The Customer service action which extended the warranties for vehicle owners (21N03) expired in January ‘23. I’m now stuck with a $4200 repair myself.
@@BluBerrysandmore27I was told the same thing. $3700 is what they wanted to charge me.
My quote was $4800
Thanks for such a great description of this problem. I just dropped my 2018 Lariat F-150 for a second cam phaser fix this morning. The issue is exactly as described in your video. The first issues started around 25-30k miles in and 2 years after purchase. The fix worked until about 3 weeks ago and I'm now at 53k miles. I baby the truck and never push it very hard. I'm really hoping that this current repair fixes the issue long term.
I hope so too.
Just purchased a 2017 expedition and my friend who is a ford master technician for many years advised me to change the oil every 3k miles to avoid cam phaser issues. Hope that helps :)
@@yvonne9264 that’s standard for any vehicle. I’d do it every 2k
@@yvonne9264 In the video the technician says the cause of the sound is from oil dripping out after sitting for 2-6 hours and when u start up the oil isn’t there so it rattles until oil reaches that spot. So what does changing oil every 3k miles do? It’s still gonna do it until the oil reaches the affected are. I just got my 2018 f150 3.5 eco boost 100k mile maintenance done along with a few other things, costing me $2,000. My transmission went out a couple weeks ago and it’s still in the shop. They are fixing the cam phaser problem as well. All under warranty they said. Might just get rid of it after this it’s too much bs to deal with
@@fccoz8348 Oil and engines aren't still stuck in the 1970s. If you're using good oil and a good filter, 7500 to 10000 mile oil changes should be the norm. 2-3000 mile oil changes are just a waste of oil and money.
In case it helps- I have a 2013 f150 3.5L ecoboost that started rattling at about 122k (purchased at 115k so I don't know if it was happening before this, i have heard that Lucas might help, but i dont know if that is true). I found that it would not rattle if I did an extended crank (holding down accelerator petal while cranking until oil pressure builds and then releasing it to allow it to start). Harder on the starter motor for sure, but this was my temporary solution until I was able to change vcts, timing chain, tensioners, oil pump, etc. So far so good about 5k miles later.
Thanks for this, my 2018 F-150 is going in for cam phaser replacement in a few weeks. Good to know exactly what is going on.
Glad to help!
what engine size? I have 2018 f150 5l v8, and I had cold start rattle in the winter. dealership told me they want $170 just to do diagnostics.
Excellent vid!! Thank you soo much! My 75k 2015 3.5 started a light tap/knock at idle when warm, (no noise on first start) that my dealer said might be phasers, have you had them do that as well?
This comment may sound too good to be true. I bought my 2013 f150 new, and had this problem for years. When I switch to the OEM motorcraft fuel filters (yes, you have to buy your own, they don't carry OEM at most oil change shops), the problem all but resolved. I still get a light rattle sometimes, but nothing like before. Something about the OEM filters helps to prevent the dry start. There, 2 minutes of typing I'll never get back. Hope this helps someone.
I'm not understanding how a fuel filter affects an oil related rattle....
I too switched to motorcraft oil filter and it went away for about 60k miles
@@peruser155 i think he meant oil filter.
A lot of f150 owners swear by using motorcraft plugs and oil filter.
I’ve had mine since 70k miles, used motorcraft filters the whole time, and had my first cold start rattle today at 144k miles. Might be something to this…
The MC oil filters are the best hands down simply because the check valve in them are at the top instead of the bottom which makes them stay full of oil. Far as I know everyone else's are on the bottom. But no it will not guarantee you won't still have this problem at some point. Would be nice to know if it prolonged the for 50 or even 100k miles. Obviously that would be awesome! Personally I think ford should be ashamed of themselves and repair them all for free but I know if it's not safety related it will always be just a TSB. (Technical Service Bulletin).
This is cool, thanks for explaining. I have a 19 expedition and had this repair recently. I am still getting an odd rattle upon cold startup but it doesn't sound like your example. It didn't make the noise after the repair but it has come back shortly after. I wish I knew the part numbers to see if I have the updated parts. Makes me worried to keep my rig due to how frequent this repair may come back up.
I'll see if I can dig those numbers up for you. I'll try to get back to you tomorrow.
Looks like they replaced two different parts which have these numbers next to them in the invoice ML3Z 6256 A SPROCKET - camshaft and ML3Z 6C525 ACAM. Is there also cam phasers at the rear of the engine or only two? Thanks for responding, I posted your video on a forum devoted to Expeditions and it is well received.
Looks to me that the numbers you have are the "latest and greatest". There are four phasers in all. Two for each head. One of those phaser numbers is for the exhaust cam and the other is for the intake cam. You have one intake and one exhaust cam per cylinder head. And of course you have two cylinder heads.
By the way, turbo waste gate rattle is not uncommon on these. This is a lighter rattling noise than the one in the video and it usually happens upon cold start up and may even be heard after the vehicle is warm. This is a "normal" noise believe it or not. (not 100% sure this is the noise you are hearing) You are welcome to capture a video of the noise and post it on your channel and then drop a link to it in the comments. I'd like to hear it.
@@BarboursAutoHelp thanks, I will see what I can get recorded. I really appreciate the help, thanks for posting and answering my questions!
So a couple have touched on this but here is the BIG question: why not leave it alone? After hours of research I've discovered that thousands of 3.5 Ecoboosts have the noise, but have not read ONE engine failure from it. One guy said he has gotten almost 200,000 miles on his "rattling" 3.5 with zero driveability issues! And, most have said that the rattle returns after any repair anyway, software update OR parts replacement. So, my question is (you seem extremely knowledgeable and this is probably the best video I've seen...thank you), is why not just leave it alone?
The potential for failure is there. Phasers can and do break. It is very rare in my experience but they do. I recently had to swap a 5.0 because one phaser broke apart. Different engine but same principle. I’ve never seen a phaser on a 3.5l break apart though.
@BarboursAutoHelp literally the only one I've "read about" online is a 3.5 that was starved of oil. Tech said it was 4 quarts low. But that was oil level related not a random phaser failure. My '19 Expedition has rattle for 1 second on startup and then a ticking after warmup. I'm hesitant to take it in if it doesn't help in long run, and if I can get 5 or 6 years out of it why bother? Thanks again for the great vid.
No problem. Come to think of it I believe the 5.0 that I mentioned did have an oil pump failure. But I will say that I’ve not heard of any failures with the new style phasers. Good luck to you with whatever route you choose.
I've had the rattle for at least 75k miles on my 2018 F-150. Also done hours of research and can't find a single case anything serious happening to the engine.
I've found using a motor craft oil filter and cranking the engine with the accelerator depressed to the floor for a few seconds eliminates the problem.
Thank you for your excellent description of the problem and insight into both repair and new parts available. I am just about to pull the trigger on the purchase of a 51K mile 2017 Raptor where the dealer has told me the Cam Phasers have not be serviced or replaced. Would you avoid this purchase? I was going to either (1) have the dealer agree in writing to replace the original equipment Cam Phasers with new Ford redesigned Cam Phasers (all 4), or (2) reduce the price $4,000-$4,500 as that would be my first repair
Do you have a ballpark on what it cost to replace all three? Do you recommend Ford or can’t any auto repair do the work correctly? I haven’t been overly impressed with my local Ford dealership service department.
Phaser Up-Date! The Ford design is for at engine shut-down the oil holding the phaser in the advanced position drops and the coil spring should return the unit back to the engine start position which optimum. When the phaser in this position the spring loaded pin should hold the phaser until the oil pump and push oil to the pin out of the locking position.
From there we find the problems. The hole in the center "Spider" has 2 steps and the pin is a loose fit in the back side and a loose fit in the front side. This lets the pin kick sideways and start the climb out of the "PIT"! This may take 70,000 miles to chew enough off the edge so the pin can no longer lock the phaser and that's when we get the chatter.
1. The solution! Replace the pin with a longer locking pin with a step to take advantage of the larger hole which will stop the kicking up sideways and jumping out of the locking slot.
2. Replace the button on the spring and the spring. These parts aren't available from Ford!
3. The great answer is that this can be done with out pulling the front cover! You don't have do more that pull the valve covers. Remove the 4 bolts that hold the phasers together.
When you do this you must inspect the rear plate to make sure that the slot hasn't been chewed off so that the pin can still catch.
IT still not a easy trip but it's better than pulling the front cover. the design for the pin is to follow if you want to know.
Tom Silver
Great explanation. An easier and cheaper fix is to just hold down the gas pedal, let the engine crank for about 3 seconds before letting off the gas and allowing the engine to start. This builds up some oil pressure and prevents the rattle.
I was excited to try that method…. Sadly it didn’t work.😩
@@nigelbeaumont1109yes it works very well
Turning the engine over for 3 seconds without starting DOES work for me.
this is what I do. it does work. is there any concern by flooding with gas before starting?
@@MrLittle2020 absolutely not.
2019 F150. Did not have rattle at 30k, 40k, and 50k dealer checkups. Each time dealer told me they were not recommending re-flash unless a problem due to trucks coming back right after with other problems (shudder). Truck had 59600 mi when rattling started. Called dealer for appointment to check, earliest was a month out and he told me not to worry as long as they saw it before 12/31/2022. Now another dealer and FMC tells me that is BS, needs new VCT and no warranty coverage available because over 60k.
They have it down to a science can't make money if stuff doesn't break
I will never buy a junk ford again, i know a few people who say the same as me
I have a 2017 Explorer Sport with 69000 miles and the infamous cam phaser rattle started.
Just took my 2019 F150 in for another reason and they are replacing the cam phasers. Thankfully I am still under warranty; if not, it would be $4200. I sure hope it lasts. It only has about 37k.miles currently.
Can the phasers affect the starting of the truck? To the point that it won't start?
I have a 2012 3.5 f150 with the rattle. I have heard this earlier engine has a longer timing chain and it also needs to be replaced due to ware/ stretching. Thoughts?
In June 2020 my 2018 F-150 eco-boost (44k mi) gave the P0022 code and felt as if it had no power. Ford dealer changed the bank 2 phaser but it never had a rattle. They actually broke a bolt off in the cutch, then broke a piston ring, no rings available in the foreseeable future, new motor block. March 2023 at 89k miles there is a cold start rattle and while cruising on the hwy a periodic short lag with boost up every so many seconds. The check engine light is not on this time. Any advise? (Also both differentials went out suddenly at 70k miles, that's $10k at Ford, but a local diff mechanic put the 4.10 Raptor gears in for about $5,500 (since I have 35in tires and heavier wheels).
I have a 19 expedition with p0022 code and dealership said I need cam phasers replaced. I have no noise or engine performance issues.. could I keep driving it?
Present day 3.5 has a new designed phaser that doesn't fail like the 2011-2020 engines.
Great video, I have the same issue on my 2018 ford expedition. I took it to the dealership for the cam software reset but still has the rattle, also now while driving it jerks and hesitates when changing gears. Its a headache, especially when I have been trying to take it to the dealership to get it looked at but they say it'll be a 3-6 weeks till they can look at it. Any suggestions of what is causing the jerking while driving?
Maybe software. Be sure to let them know about it.
Would this new updated part be able to replace the 2012 cams? Or is the newer style only a replacment for 2017 and up? Thanks.
I had this problem with my 2017 F150 Lariat. The dealership replaced the phasers at 72000 miles. The repair lasted 30000 miles as I now have 103000 miles and the rattle has started again.
Hopefully the new updated cam sprockets will take care of it.
I have a 2017 f150 with the 3.5 eco boost. Is this repair even worth doing if I have 151k miles on my truck. I just worry about doing that at that high mileage and other problems happening from the motor being opened up. Thanks.
I’m going to be tearing into mine soon. 2013 F150. Bought from auction with 255k miles on it. It rattles on start up then idles beautiful when it warms up but rattles again on acceleration.
If you just let them rattle on startup, does it cause failure? Or no?
Does it hurt to keep running it with the noise?
Awesome video, thank you for showing how these work! I've got a 14 f150 3.5 ecoboost that has had this issue when 1st purchased at 167k now has 217k miles and I believe the timing chain might be stretched as well as its now accompanied by Codes P054A and P054C. I know I need to take it to a technician to confirm(and I will be) but do those two codes indicate a timing chain issue jumping from stretching? I know cam position sensors can go bad but for both codes to appear at the same time with the cam phasers issue, just curious if you've had experience with something similar with these engines?
U find the issue?
@cheizaguirre5494 I haven't heard back on anything, but to be honest, I've been so busy with work, I haven't had time to do much more digging.
My dad has a 2018 with the 3.5 and this is now the second time. It happened once when we first got the truck at about 55k miles. Now it has 125k and did it again.
I kept telling him to change his oil closer to 5k miles. He usually just changes it when the oil life indicator tells him to. Sometimes he also waits until after it says zero.
Did u have rattle noise
Thank you Barbour's Auto Help!! Much appreciated. My problem; recently purchased a 2012 Mustang, 3.7 Cyclone engine, external water pump, that has developed a major 'rattling sound' at idle and just-off idle speeds. Bought from a car dealer that I believe put heavy-weight oil in the engine to 'get the car sold', I just did my first oil change to the prescribed 5W20 oil and Ford oil filter, and it immediately started the 'rattle' noise. Drained out the 5W20 oil and replaced it with Mobil 1 20W50 and WAA LAA !!! Noise went away!!! I feel like I've been 'bent over' by this dealer that obviously put heavy-weight oil in the engine to 'get the car sold'. My question; could this be worn cam phasers? Or maybe a stretched timing chain? The car has 110K miles, and has a pristine Carfax history of regular, prescribe maintenance. Thank you so much for your time!
Wow! I’m very sorry you’re having this experience. The 3.7 is a very good engine. I’m not aware of any weak points. Unfortunately, it’s probably best to have a tech take a look.
Thick oil will break the oil pump, woodruff keys,roll pins etc.good luck with that.
@@billbonu1639 Thick oil, as in 40, 50, and higher weight oil, in cold weather, can do that. But even 20W50 oils cause no problem, it's already loaded with polymers that allow the oil to act as a 20 weight to prevent that. If an engine is over-revved while running in cold conditions, then yes, the oil pump can 'over load' the pressure relief valve, and oil pressure levels will rise into the 'danger' zone. Woodruff keys, roll pins, etc. can be destroyed.
Heavy weight oil would make phasers rattle worse.
Damn. I thought I had a timing chain slapping around. Engine hot or cold. At idle. When I accelerate, the noist gets sharp and then goes silent. Timing cover removed, timing chain looks good and tight. Could I be looking at sloppy cam phasers?
2011 explorer. 3.5 NA
Why is cam phaser lockout not an option to eliminate the problem permanently?
Is there any risk to the engine if you don't fix it?
Good question.
Is this the same goes for the 2.7 EcoBoost as well?
I got a question… I just bought A new to me truck with a brand new 3.5 block and her heads that were fresh out of the machine shop however from what I’ve been told someone tried to paint the heads in an effort to keep rust from going and I don’t think the tech, other than the meeting services, cleaned off any of the paint that was under the valve cover… That said, I’m now having over retarded codes left and right and I’ve taken it back three times because it’s under warranty and it seems as though if I leave it with them it’s gonna take a month to get all of it cleaned out because they’re driving it until it clogs up the VVT solenoid‘s again and then pulling them and cleaning them out and then doing it again using the VVT Solenoid screens as a filter if you will…. I am pretty mechanically inclined so because they’re only taking my truck for lunch or to grab parts etc. etc. and it’s taking forever I offered to do it myself and put actual mileage on it and do it until it clears out… Is there anyway to clear out all of the oil jackets and everything else leading to the VVT solenoid’s in another way?
Just got mine out of the shop. 2018 F150 with 41K They replaced the phasers due to the PCM update not working. They added 2 years and 20K to my warranty in the event it happens again.
Don't worry the fix will last 21k miles
My 2011 f150 ecoboost had same rattle on start up. Changed the oil and used Mobil 1full synthetic 5-30 and bottle of Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer. Rattle was gone for 10 months. Just changed again. Will see what happens.
Did the oil stabilizer continue to eliminate the rattle??
VVT CHATTER! This problem needs addressed like the FFA does a plane crash. That's my job and I have done it well based on others opinion!
The Ford answer has been Change the Part! We are looking for the answer and sooner or later we will find it. Well here is the problem and the problem is a $.10 spring that holds the lock pin in place. It was taken out of a clicker in their ink pin. Just look at one. The next time you pull one of the bad boys out just take 10 min and take it apart. The only spring in side that holds the locking plunger in place will have shinny side on the side where it moves inside the plunger. This causes the spring to loose up to 30% of its ability to hold the locking plunger in place. That lets the plunger start to wear the hole in the back plate and this cuts a ramp angle which lets the pin jump out and unlock the phaser. If you look at all the manufactures that us this same system they all have the same problem. I found only one that has make a improvement in this. They use a bigger spring and pin. That system they us isn't perfect but it's a start. This VVT system should be as good a the engine it's self. Toyota' 300,000 engine!
Tom Silver
agreed but too bad the Toyota's ride terribly and are too small...
Will this cause blue smoke as well
I got a question ...on the Chrysler 3.6 to remove the harmonic balancer the bolt loose to the left ...my car is a 2011 durango ..please help me ..I try with 2 different impacts to loose it to the left and is too tight or loose to the other side .. thanks for your comment
I'm pretty sure the harmonic balancer bolt comes out with counter clockwise torque. I don't see why it wouldn't be that way. Tripple check though.
I have a 2013 f150 with a 3.5Lt ecoboost and it rattels all the time, not just at start up. what are your thoughts on that? replace the timing chain componentas and the cam phasers?
I'd have a tech take a look at it. Gotta make sure you don't actually have an oil delivery problem or some other issue. Don't want you to replace the wrong parts.
So I just had my CPs done, anyone know the new revised phasers part number compared to the old one
My wife's 2011 Ford explorer has this issue it's been happening for 30k miles. So my question is, is it doing any damage to the engine besides the annoying noise on start up? Her explorer is at 192k miles is it really worth replacing?
Mines made noise for 3 years no issues
Gets bad when real hot out
This is good info and my 2018 F150 is having this issue, what is the average cost of this repair? And how do you find a good mechanic that can fix this, no way in hell my truck is ever going to the dealership again!
Expensive
Really FORD should be held accountable for this Design error.
I have a 2017 F150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost that is two months out of warranty and just started this cam phaser rattle. I understand the recall has been extended into 2013…have you heard this?
The dealer where I purchased the truck want $3000.00 for the repair which I think is excessive? Is this price in the ballpark or no? I’m Leary of letting a local mechanic make the repair. Any thoughts on someone else making repairs appreciated.
Chip
Not aware of any "recall". Not sure what the charge is for something like this. ( I never pay attention to estimates. Just turn wrenches.) This is something that a seasoned mechanic can do. Just be sure to use the updated parts.
3k to 3500 is about right, my 2017 F150 3.5L Ecoboost also apparently needs a new oil pan. Overheard the mechanic at the dealer tell the site admin that "we change all the pans when we do the phasers to save them a trip back when the pan cracks - which they all eventually do". He wanted an extra 1500 for that. I haven't done it yet - and yes there was a recall but if you didn't do the first two that didn't work, you don't qualify for the third one. It is now expired anyway. Very frustrating that Ford is unwilling to help me out. May turn this multi-generation ford family into Ram folk.
So watching a guy about this and he described if the you hold down gas pedal for about 2 seconds while starting it will delay firing to allow oil to pump to cam phasers before starting up. I have an 18 expedition and this does work you just can't use your remote start. If ford could the allow the starter to turn over another couple seconds this could save the phasers from wearing as quickly. An idea.
This is a good point. Pedal has to be completely pressed to the floor though. This puts the vehicle into "clear flood" mode. The engine will spin over but not start. Thanks for sharing this.
Just wondering is there a way to program this vehicle to do this?
@@lillyjames To my knowledge, no.
I have a 2021 Aviator. My noise lasts for a few minutes. It is a very rapid tapping noise. When i described to the tech on the phone, he seemed to think it was the cam phasers. If the noise lasts for 5-10 minutes after warm up, could the phasers be the problem? Thanks
It's possible, but the typical symptom is a rattle upon start up for just a few seconds. They can still fail in different ways though, so it's possible. I'd get a little more than a phone call diagnosis and a youtube question/answer though before you throw that kind of money at it. I'd suggest having a good tech properly diagnose it. Good luck to you, CampsitePyro.
@@BarboursAutoHelp hello,
I brought the car in this week. The tech says that they have had some complaints with the turbocharged engine, which mine is. When he fired it up from a cold start with me present, he knew what the noise was immediately. I also sent them a recording of the noise.
They don’t appear to be concerned about it. It is an annoying noise though, and lasts a few minutes after starting. All I know is our 2019 Navigator is much quieter.
I have a 2013 3.5 ecoboost 150 Wondering what your opinion on using Cloyes timing chain kit vs Fo Mo Co’s parts?
If you haven’t finished the project yet. I’d go with Ford cause I used the Cloyes cam phasers and they’re terrible same with Dorman, Immediate cam rattle. Go with OEM. Save your time.
@@michaelcole6049 I’m done with the fix and I still have the rattle happen sometimes damn it I should’ve gone with the OEM parts there goes another 1500 thanks for the info
Yup. It sucks
Thanks mine has done this for a long time!! Can I ask what happens if you dont fix it? Is it bad for the motor?
My 2011 has this issue. Would it be more cost efficient replacing the entire engine & for going any other internal issues? Ford is charging 5k & I want to get my money’s worth in the long run.
It's all relative. A decision best left to you, Sir. Lot of info I don't have about all the circumstances surrounding your vehicle.
Is this issue only with the 3.5l ecoboost? Are the 2.7 ecoboost affected? Thanks.
I've not seen this on the 2.7.
What would be the possible downside of ignoring this other than the annoying sound of the rattle on cold start?
Worse case, the phasers produce excess metal that gets into the oil and causes engine damage, theoretically. I've not seen that though.
I've got the 2016 F150 3.5 Ecoboost, and this started happening on mine. Only 62k miles. Any chance Ford will take care of it?
Give your dealer a call and see what they have to say.
I have a 2013 3.5 Ecoboost on my F150 and it started at about 110k miles . Everyone says it’s about $3000 repair range . Ford Motor refused any assistance of any kind .
Very frustrating for what I paid for a King Ranch . I sure expected more from a Ford … have a Chevy Avalanche with 208k no motor issues ever .
Will this ruin the engine
What percentage of vehicles does this happen to? i’ve known about this issue for a long time, but I have yet to come across anyone I know that has had it with their Fords that have the 3.5. very good video.
I'm not sure exactly what the percentage is. I do know that this issue is one of the most common points of failure for this engine. It's a great engine and other than phaser issues and turbo related issues we don't see a whole lot. It's common enough that there is a TSB for it.
Me and everyone I know with f150 has it
@@BarboursAutoHelp I have this issue with my 1.8 ecoboost in my Chevy sedan
It’s happened twice to mine
@@ryanmurphy997 damn! With what I do for work I had to stop by a Ford dealership so I asked one of the mechanics two days ago what the odds were of having to replace the cam phasers on a raptor and he said if it’s 2017 to 2020 it’s pretty much 100% at some point. That’s just ridiculous.
What would happen if you just left it as is? I had it done about 40k ago and it sounds like it needs to be done again now, but the truck already has 200k so I'm not sure if it's worth it
In rare cases the units can come apart.
What is the typical cost of replacing the cam phasers?
And will it do the engine any harm if they aren’t replaced??
Dealership told me $3000 dunno how long you can go with the rattle I’ve got 40k miles with rattle 🤞🏻😅
Each phaser is $250 at stealership
That was my question as well. It doesn’t seem that terrible after startup. Could one live with it?
Hello I have 2020 mustang 2.3 ecoboost and think my rattle is from my phasers not over heating no coolant in oil just horrible rattle is this common code p0013 & p0015 p0301
Do you know anything about Turbo Failures on the same model Eco boosts ?
Yes but other than coolant leaks failures are somewhat rare. What issue are you having?
So my 2015 lariat 3.5 doesn’t rattle on cold starts but only when driving from 2nd to 6th gear. ONLY when I’m barely on the throttle under very light load which causes that rattle.
My 18 does the same thing.
@@derekmortensen1665 Yeah im bringing it to the dealer in a week to get that recall done. Still got warranty so its on them HA suckers.
@@maxboya I hope they will do it bro. My extended warranty ends in about 6k miles. So I might try and get everything fixed before it runs out.
Curious what can i expect to pay to have this issue fixed at an autoshop? Ballpark range is fine.
Had mine replaced on a 2018 F150 at about 53k and I now have 60k and the noise is coming back. Allegedly they replaced with the new phasers, at least according to the parts list for the repair but one never knows what really happens at the dealer repair shop. I really don't want to fight with Ford about having this done again at their expense, what happens if you let it go and don't repair it? Will it cause major problems down the road?
Did you ever find out what happens?
@@larrylitan7259 Not really, I posted the question on another forum and someone said it would not be good to let it go but was not specific as to what would happen.
I have same problem with my raptor 2018, I also noticed that when I start the engine the vehicle it seems like it needs help to do it…
Well, if your vehicle has less than 60k miles on it then it should be covered under power train warranty if the phasers are the issue.
@@BarboursAutoHelp hey! I got delayed but we are lined up for this weekend on my 2nd gen 2017.
One question: when we reinstall the HP fuel pump, we moved the crank again until the lobes are bottom dead right ?
You want to make sure that the lobe that drives the hp fuel pump is positioned so that the flat part of it faces the fuel pump when installing the fuel pump. I think that's what you were asking. Right?
Just completed a 3rd round of cam phaser replacement on 2017 Raptor. This time with updated phaser and new software from ford. Hopefully 3rd times a charm
I have 2019 F150 XLT 3.5L Ecoboost same problem, made it to 120k miles. I wonder what is the average repair cost do Cam Phasers repair?
I recently had the repair done via recall. I asked the service writer and he said out of pocket cost would be around $3500 cad.
@@findaddy22 what recall?
@@zakattack467 I randomly downloaded the Ford pass app and when I entered my vin it showed I had a recall for the cam phasers. I called and they booked me in right away. Best bet is to call a service center near you and give them your vin. They'll be able to tell you if you're still eligible.
@@findaddy22 what year is your rig?
@@zakattack467 2018
What’s approximate cost for this job?
Dealership just quoted me $4,400. Fyi
LUCAS.makes the oil hang around in there.
I’m dropping my Raptor off this Wednesday 10-25-2023 to have ford fix this issue. Ford is paying for it thankfully but I trust I’ll have this problem again down the road and will have to pay for it myself.
I think they have it fixed with the updated phasers. I'm not seeing them come back.
@@BarboursAutoHelp glad to hear that
Can you tell me how much it would cost to do a job like that in parts and labor
Close to 2k$ if your doing it yourself. Ford dealership quoted me 5k for them to do it.
What brand of phasers do you use?
Original equipment.....and always the updated part number.
a piece of metal literally blew off of the cam phaser on my buddies ecoboost.... is this something you've seen before?
I’ve seen a phaser grenaded on a 5.0 before but not a 3.5. Doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Anything is possible
Thanks for your videos , Im having issues with the cam phasers replacement on my 2018 F150 3.5 , shop replaced phasers solenoids , chain , tensioners and everything related with the VCT system and now codes P0012A , P0254A and P0254B come to scene , what could be the reason ?? Bad installation ??
Forgot to mention , facing lack of power check engine light and kinda hard start ..
Did you get the repair done from dealer?
@@studritaf207 not really , repaired in a shop by a Ford certified mechanic who worked in a Ford dealer for several years ..
Link to the fix oil reservoir???
I 2nd this
Looking for differences on phasers Vs phaser censor causing the issue
I have a 2017
Not real sure I understand what you are asking.. Can you clarify a bit?
How much would it cost to replace cam phasers ?
I've gotten a couple quotes stating around $3200. Not cheap
Just keep driving it?
Will driving more help it ?
Not at all.
FYI…. We have a 2019 F150 w/3.5 Eco Boost and the Software Did NOT fix the issue
Has this issue been known to cause failure, or is it just a nuisance thing?
I think it's more a nuisance than anything. However, I have seen one that grenaded. Ended up replacing the engine on that one.
@barboursautohelp can you provide more info? This is this first I've heard of any real damage from not fixing it
new design cam phaser's locking pin was redesign internally on the VCT unit. New part # start with ML. Time will tell if this solves the problem.
Thanks for the info!
Nope, I put about 25,000 miles sense replaced last year (covered under warranty). Did every oil change (the works). Now it's doing it again. That's why I'm watching this video.
Do you know if the updated phasers where installed?
Hey quick question so I got my cam phaser fixed took it on an expressway n it popped up with low pressure oil n shut my truck off now it won’t start anyone have an idea it’s a 2013 f150 ecoboost
Do you have oil in the car? Does it crank and not start or does it not crank.
So happy I got rid of that crap engine. Dealer wanted like 4 grand to fix it. It was so embarrassing starting that car in front of people
Ford should be responsible for their design negligence and pay for a recall! 😮
I posted a video to fix this. I personally don’t believe ford cares about it’s customer’s enough to actually make a fix for this problem.
I saw your video! Looks cool. However, I still haven't seen a failure with the new updated phasers. I think Ford may have fixed it with the updated phasers. So far so good. By the way if you would like to post a link to your video here in the comments I'm cool with it. It's not my endorsement of the product but I'm open people sharing.
I have a 2016 Ford f150, with less then 60,000miles I’ve had both Turbos go, catalytic converter go, and a whole bunch of other ish -including this. Customer service from ford sucks. I originally complained about this problem when the warranty was still good, but Ford service department claims they didn’t hear anything. So m done with ford. I even call the main head quarters and was literally told they were about to close so I basically couldn’t be helped.
Watch one of your videos and done a water pump and chains on 3.5 edge thanks
The 3.5L in that video is a different animal. This video doesn't apply to that 3.5. this info is for F150, Expedition and Navigators with the 3.5L Ecoboost. So just keep that in the back of your mind. Thanks for watching!
How much would it cost me to get a job like this done???😢
You'll have to call around. Prices and cost of labor varies.
3000 to 3500 at the dealer. But they replace the faulty parts with new but still faulty parts....
So.... I have a 2022 Built on 03/2022, And from what i've seen and read and heard, my 2022 3.5 Eco Boost F-150 Has this stupid Rattle at Cold Start Up Issue??? (S T I L L)???? What's to be considered "NORMAL" on these 3.5 V6 Eco Boost Engines? Mines Quick, and goes away within maybe 2 Seconds, I've Changed the Factory Oil and Filter at 1416 MILES on the ODO, with No Change in Symptom. Seems rather Problematic with No Real "GOOD" FIX at this time for the Past 4/5 YEARS, and Ford Boss Me has a 2021 2.7 Doing the SAME THING?????? Mine is going in for service on one other Problem, and Possibly CAM Phaser's or ???????? Who know's at this Point????
2019 Expedition Max 1 Cam Phaser Replacement / Repair at 65K. 1 year later at 88K Second Replacement / Repair. I'm not sure of the exact work performed, I need to check. Not happy with Ford right now. The Phasers still make a bit of start up noise. Total BS.