Even though I am Eastern Orthodox, The witness of the Coptic Martyrs in Libya always cause me to wonder and hope that I would be as strong as they were in the midst of pending death. Particularly the 21st martyr, who was not a Christian at the time, when offered a chance to renounce Christ and save his life chose to stay with his companions and die with them. Holy Coptic Martyrs of Libya pray for us.
It was great celebrating the Liturgy with you on Sunday Austin! I'm glad you enjoyed it and I loved hearing your thoughts on it. Hope to see you back soon 🙏🏽
Coptic Orthodox here! Taking off shoes while in the sanctuary and while receiving communion is a regular practice within all Coptic Orthodox churches. Thank you for your video
Interesting! I've read a couple amazing books by Pope Shenouda III and got a positive picture of Coptic Orthodoxy. 2 years ago I become friend with a woman from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and this has challenged "my theology" several times. (She has lived 10 years in a monastery, so that too adds weight to her words.) But it's a REALLY old Church😳...like THE oldest, and I knew nothing about it.
Coptic Orthodox Convert here! Thanks fir checking out. Our sister Churches Armenian, Indian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, and Syriac traditions are just as beautiful. Check em out 😊
One of the most interesting things to me, is how the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches have been separated for 1600 years, yet are still much closer to each other than EO is to the Roman Catholic Church with only a 1000 year separation
Also interesting that all of those have been separated from the Catholic church for 1000 years or more, yet all closer than Protestants (other than like, Anglo-Catholics) who separated only 500 years ago.
The Peace of Christ! "Closer" in what sense? If you are talking about rites or theology, it's unfair to compare because the latin/roman Church was always a little diferent from the other rites, even before the first divisions. And remember that Pope Francis added 21 Coptic Orthodox martyrs to Catholic list of saints. That was a great act of closeness. God bless you!
Remember also that a lot of Apostolic Churches (EO and OO bishops with their sheep) joined full communion with Rome, so the "Catholic Church" includes those Churches also.
Check out Coptic Pope Shenouda's teaching. He's great. And read about the Coptic Pope before him, Saint Pope Kyrillos VI. He's amazing. He's associated with tons of miracles. Also check out Our Lady of Zeitoun that first started happening in 1968, during Pope Kyrillos' time as Pope. I love Oriental Orthodoxy. I've been attending an Oriental Orthodox church all summer. I went to a Christian (Protestant) grammar school, high school, and college, but this version of Christianity makes more sense to me. It's like all the puzzle pieces are starting to fit together. I've been blessed by all the Coptic teaching I've been encountering online.
Pope Shenouda book called The Life of Repentance and Purity is a big help in one's spirituality. A Silent Patriach by Fr Daniel Fanous is about the life of Pope Kyrillos VI
I attended an all English speaking Coptic Orthodox Church in Sydney Australia. They are a lovely people who have truly embraced everything Christianity stands for🙏🏼✝️
There are two Coptic Catholic parishes in the USA that I know of, on in Attwater Village (near downtown Los Angeles) and one in NYC. Perhaps there are more, but those are the two I have attended.
I'm coptic. I know many catholics who also have humble hearts. But the coptic church does produce a lot of humbleness. Because we all know we need God because we are sick with the sin nature. Not because we are better merely because the faith is fully realized.
@Marcosnationalistos nice glad to see non Egyptians also coming to our church. We have an English only coptic church in my area but I'm an arab so I go to the one that does English coptic and Arabic. However I only can read and understand English. Coptic I merely memorized from repetition and learned to read it a bit. And Arabic well I was born in usa so I never learned to read it lol.
thank you for making this video. I would definitely like to see a tour of the church like what you mentioned here in the video for sure. Any update on when such a video like that would come out?
At my senior center my physical therapist who is from Egypt could not get over that an American h guessed he was Coptic Christian and knew the name of their pope. My therapist was tattooed as defender of the Coptic Christian faith in the face of Muslim attacks.
Lovely video! You should collaborate with Coptic Orthodox Answers again! You said that you want to learn more and a collaboration would be so helpful for you, our Coptic youth, and any curious 3rd parties! 🙏📈
Stoked to see this, and I can't wait for your sit down with Abouna David. Another good book to check out is "This Is My Body: The Rite of the Liturgy Explained" by H.G. Bishop Raphael.
@@adoseoftheosis Anything concerning your experience with the Coptic Orthodox Church? Any new theology that you learned? What made you convert? It'd be lovely to see.
The big differences between the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, besides the miaphysitism, monophysitism, and dyophysitism disputes, arise from being under hostile rule for most of its existence. The Coptic Orthodox Church doesn’t focus much on theosis, but rather on humility. Also, there is a separation and passive resistance to Governmental authority.
While the conversation seems most often to circle around the possibility of reunion between Rome and Orthodoxy, it seems like reunion between the Eastern Orthodox and the Coptic/Oriental Orthodox is a much more likely/achievable goal.
Good to see that you had a fruitful visit. Looking forward to the interview and church tour. Yes, intercommunion/reunion between the Coptic and Eastern Orthodox would of course be wonderful, I'm not sure how that would work out on the ground, who would be able to make that happen. I suppose there are patriarchs/bishops? I'm not really sure, but it would be a beautiful thing, especially if the differences are only semantic at this point. God bless you
I go to an Orthodox church ( not Coptic ) and it's the same, we have a slik napkin to make sure we don't lose the body. All the women veil without exception but it is predominantly catering to Greeks Romanian and Bulgarians and Russians. And it's an OLD calendar orthodox church. Exactly as you described the Coptic church. So much revenrence etc.
Which Orthodox jurisdiction? I am in Alaska and in the Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sitka and Alaska (OCA), we are on the old calendar as well. Austin, if you haven't done one yet, maybe an episode on old calendar vs. New calendar conundrum in the Orthodox Church might be a possible topic for a future episode or interview.
There’s an Ethiopian Orthodox Monastery in Carroll County - Saint Arsema’s. I’m right across the PA line, so it’s not far from where 8 live. I’ve wanted to visit but have been too cowardly to do so. You should visit and make a video! Let me know and I’ll meet you there! 😁 Have loved your channel for years. Keep up the good work.
Love all the naturally occurring acts of reverence and your take on your experience. I haven't been to an oriental orthodox liturgy but have been to a Maronite and a Chaldean Catholic liturgy with the Chaldean liturgy coming out of the Assyrian Church of the East tradition of the Divine Liturgy of Addai and Mari (I heard it in Syriac but there was an English translation). But the Coptic Liturgy is fascinating to me as their oldest anaphora belongs to the Alexandrine liturgical family. To my understanding it is celebrated in Great Lent and Nativity Lent (the other seasons the celebrate a Byzantine liturgy). The Alexandrian Liturgy and especially the anaphora actually is closer to the Roman Canon than to EO liturgies. One book I highly recommend is Eucharist by Louis Bouyer. Its scholarship is a bit dated - but primarily just his acceptance that the liturgical book that was discovered and named the "Apostolic Tradition" was a liturgy of Hippolytus. He was somewhat skeptical but since he was close to and admired the great liturgist Dom Bernard Botte who wrote the supposedly decisive analysis, he deferred to his judgement. Unlike most, however, he correctly held that it was never the liturgy used in the Roman church (for which he had an interesting theory to square with the "accepted" authorship of Hippolytus). In any case ,it is a great book for its tracing of the development of families of liturgies and especially what he discerned as their Jewish roots(certain aspects of that is his own particular view as well). His chapter on the Roman Canon is excellent. The bonus is that he wrote much of this immediately before the Council and then finished it with final chapters on his views of the reform of the Liturgy circa 1968-1969. Since he served on the consilium that created the liturgy his comments are important. He was still optimistic when he wrote this - he was more critical within a few years. He later revealed that he pretty much loathed Bugnini in his memoirs and he specified why. That is a different book but fascinating for both its literary focus and the aforementioned comments on the consilium. He belonged to the Communio school along with Ratzinger, Du Lubac, and Congar, and Balthazar and was a multi- talented theologian (liturgy, spiritual life, systematic theology of a sort, and ecumenical work).
Really cool. Have you ever visited an eastern rite Catholic Church? Byzantine, Melkite, Chaldean etc? If you like Eastern Orthodoxy, you would love it!
Kinda in reference to your question of reading material on this topic is John A. Mcguckin St. Cyril of Alexandria: The Christological Controversy, Its History, Theology, and Texts. Seems to be the primary text in this thread.
I’m Eastern Orthodox, but I’ve also wondered about the works in Oriental Orthodoxy. The most important works showcasing their theology are supposedly The discourses of Philoxenus of Mabbug (a syrian oriental orthodox christian) And The book of lamentations by Gregory of Narek (an armenian oriental orthodox)
As a coptic orthodox Christian I would disagree and direct readers to Cyril of Alexandria “On the Unity of Christ” as the most adhered to expression of our Christology specifically. I can personally attest that in my circles, both ecclesial and in a coptic seminary even when later texts are read they tend to harken back to Cyril’s formula of miaphysis.
@@johnrefila but St Cyril lived before the separation of the Chalcedonians from the Church. If he wants to understand why we believe we are the sole inheritors of the Orthodox Faith, then Sts Philoxenus, Severus, and Gregory of Narek are wonderful saints to read, since they explain the very pertinent controversies.
I like the beautiful simplicity of a common orthodox father that clearly expounds miaphysis. It is true modern chalcedonian scholarship is shedding light on the fact that these later figures adhere to the thought and expression of Cyril, but in many EO circles there is so much fog of war about this and these figures are cast as heretics. As such I will do what many of these figures themselves did and say “I believe what Cyril did” 😁 My goal is not to cast the OO as the sole recipients of the orthodox faith - whatever you believe about that concept it seems to me less helpful than finding the common ground and seeking unity rather than division.
@@johnrefila the first part of that is definitely a valid point - about how at the end of the day we point back to Ephesus 431 (which includes St Cyril among others). But it's important for us to note that the necessary path for unity after a full schism is that there has for all time been only 1 legitimate communion of Orthodox bishops, only 1 Church, as it says in the Creed, and that everyone outside of communion does not possess any sacraments of the Church. Just as the term "one Lord Jesus Christ" does not and cannot signify 2 sons or persons, so too "one Church" does not include anything other than the 1 communion, which OO is that exclusive communion and Faith. If the Chalcedonians now are starting to abandon their old ways, then that's good, but their good intentions without converting to the Orthodox Faith still leaves them as schismatics without any sacraments, and therefore utterly outside the Church.
@@dioscoros I have a different perspective but it does not seem that this dialogue will lead much of anywhere in the TH-cam comments section. Welcome and much love to our Chalcedonian brothers and sisters!
I have read "The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined," by Fr. V.C. Samuel, and Indian Orthodox priest, and am reading "The Council of Chalcedon and the Armenian Church," by Bishop (later Catholicos of all Armenians) Karekin Sarkissian. Either would provide good background on the reasons why the churches now known as Oriental Orthodox rejected Chalcedon. I agree fully with your point: to divide over extremely technical language that, in any case, cannot capture that which is indescribable in human terms, is beyond my understanding. Jesus is both God and man. This seems sufficient.
I find that fasting elevates the celebration, I have been to a EO Liturgy and as a Catholic of the Roman Rite we still are suppose to fast for an hour to receive communion. The reason we give for not using Leaven as Theological in nature, to put it simply its Referring back to the Passover that Jews still celebrate and our savior being a sinless/unblemished lamb. in the Old Testament unleavened bread is used because of the rush they left from Egypt so much that they had no time for their bread to rise. Blessings in Christ! !! Ienjoy your content especially showing other sides of Christianity with the charity you show without an axe to grind.
I like what you said about feeling people are forcing things. I go to a Serbian church and many people ask why I don’t go to an OCA church and that is exactly why lol
Hello brother God bless you! ✝🙏❤ I would recommend you read these books as an intro for the Chalcedonian schism and the Christological controversies of the 5th century: 1) The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined by VC Samuel 2) Christology and the Council of Chalcedon by Father Shenouda Ishaq
One category of videos I have is Coptic/Oriental. The first 2 interviews are by the 10 Minute Bible Hour and they’re very good!! Link below… th-cam.com/play/PLshzehuYYw0tLAbXDZ3zH_6uf_UUl1V7T.html&si=TSViePRQFXNcY38H In the Middle East it’s not cold like Alaska where taking off shoes equals frostbite. I think that besides the burning bush (which is in Egypt where St. Catherine’s Monastery is located) and where Muslims take off their shoes… it is more understandable. Copts in Colorado wear shoes.
Here are some book recommendations for you let me know what you think About the church fathers: 1) When the Church was Young About Orthodoxy in general: 1) Orthodoxy vs. Heterodoxy 2) Becoming Orthodox About history of Coptic church: 1) Introduction to the Coptic Orthodox Church by Fr. Tadros Malaty About Protestantism vs Orthodoxy 1) Rock & Sand
coptic orthodox convert here, they have the love of God i was looking for. book recommendation: The Release of The Spirit by His Holiness Pope Shenouda 3 i pinky promise you the book will transform your life.
EO here and I think it's a tragedy that we haven't been able to reconcile our differences especially when they do seem to be based in linguistic misunderstandings. However My spiritual father once warned me that the issue isn't just that the language was different. It's way too hard to get into in a YT comment. In short part of the reason reunion is hard is because we believe that the ecumenical councils are inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to guide the church to right belief. The rejection of the 4th ecumenical council then the subsequent absence from further ecumenical councils is the hurdle. In order to return to communion the Coptic church would need to in essence go back and retroactivly confirm the outcomes of those councils. It doesn't matter that the EO layperson can go to a Coptic liturgy and understand and agree with everything that is happening and vice versa the ultimate issue lies with the ecclesiastical hierarchy. We can only pray for a reunion, Lord have mercy!
Actually, the hurdle is that the Chalcedonians have to essentially go back to what was declared in Ephesus 431, such as in the Homilies of St Theodotus of Ancyra and the Third Letter of St Cyril to Nestorius, in order to see why Chalcedon and future Chalcedonian false-councils were indeed false. Then, the Chalcedonians will be freed from a falsification of the gospel, will be able to truly accept the 3 Holy Councils, and the later councils of Ephesus 2 and 3, Manazkert, etc.
There is no way the Council of Chalcedon was inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes I really don't know if people make this claim out of ignorance or delusion. A person who is honest would not make such claims even if they accept Chalcedon. So it is not the Oriental Orthodox that needs to accept Chalcedon or the Council which supposedly fixed Chalcedon or any other Chalcedonians Councils. Rather the Chalcedonians need to abandon them. if not atleast see them as local synods(i don't know if that even is a right thing to do). It is clear for anyone who can see the problems that are in these Councils. And by the way the misunderstanding was never based on linguistic.Because the people who were in Conflict with each other spoke the same language. The false idea that has been spreading by modern theologians, that the misunderstanding was linguistic based is really misleading. Perhaps lay people from the two opposites theological beliefs might sound as saying the same thing. Or if one was to speak without terminologies, perhaps the disagreement can be reduced. But then again, one or two natures, one will vs two wills are very basic language. Besides the Terminological Development that was done by the Chalcedonians can not be ignored since it was not faithful to the Fathers. If such things exist then there is no misunderstandings but fundamental Disagreements.and not to forget all the shameful things that were done in the Council of Chalcedon, wether on Ecclesiastical or theological matters and judgments. These are matters that can not be easily ignored. they have to be fixed if there ought to be real reconciliation.
Thank you for your video!! If you are looking for a good book that will give you insight into the Coptic Church, please read A Silent Patriarch by Daniel Fanous. It’s a beautiful biography of Pope Kyrillos VI that was a huge push for me to convert to Coptic Orthodoxy.
I'm grieved that the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox remain out of communion. I hope the Holy Spirit will act to rectify that separation. There's a very nice biography of the Coptic Pope, St. Kyrillos VI, published by St. Vladimir's Seminary Press. He was like a modern day desert father, and had numerous spiritual gifts.
Love your videos. Book recs The Great Mystery of Life: An Introduction to the Coptic Orthodox Church Oriental Orthodoxy Unveiled Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity Orthodox Christology - Fr. Peter Farrington Chalcedon Re-Examined - Fr. V.C. Samuel -spiritual books- Words for our Time The Silent Patriarch The Life of Repentance and Purity
Not going to any church that doesn't have pews or chairs. Jesus and his disciples sat/reclined for Passover and the first Lord's Supper. I'm in good company.
I have a general aversion to recording liturgies. I recognize that these are sacred spaces and people are there to worship, not be put on TH-cam. I suppose you'll just have to take my word that I actually attended.
@@GospelSimplicity I think there's a Ukrainian Catholic Church in Bmore. Near Curtis Bay I think. Mellite Greek Catholic in NOVA, beautiful Liturgy, attended once years ago. Recently attended Ukrainian Catholic in Carnegie, PA (Fr. Jason Charron). A hike, but Pittsburgh area is cool imho. St. Anthony's huge reliquary in Pittsburgh, Heinz chapel, St. Paul's Cathedral, lots to appreciate from a faith perspective
I wish it was a simple semantic difference. When it comes to the question of WHO Jesus is, even the smallest difference is an enormous deal breaker. One can easily say pisssssh Nestorious or Arius was only semantically wrong.... sorry no deal. It is not enough to say Jesus is BOTH God-Man, if what you mean and I mean are different, it is not the words but the deffinitions that matter, and the diffinitions are different between the Mia and Dia.
STOP WASTING YOUR TIME DOING RESEARCH AND EXPLORING EVERY DENOMINATION! How much longer would it take you to admit and believe the Church founded by Christ is the Holy Catholic Church? One God, One Christ, and One Church. Come home brother to the Catholic Apostolic Church, which outside THERE IS NO SALVATION!
That's not what your holy infallible pope claims lol. Funny to say the least that youd be this worried about converting a christian when not even your high bishop wants to convert muslims and hindus...
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Scriptures that revealed Most Holy Trinity, condemned false prophets as well, like Simon the Magician, Muhammad of Mecca the caravan robber and fornicator, Joseph Smith the pervert, doomsday-freak Mueller etc.... My dear, denying Triune God is dreadful and mortal sin that can lead to eternal separation from Him.
May God help us all and open our eyes to the truth instead of simply reciting what others tell you to. ✝️ Here’s the Trinity in the Old Testament: - Daniel 7:9 (sees thrones & Ancient of Days sits on one, and has an appearance of man), Dan 7:13 (sees Son of Man & even the angels worship him), Dan 5:11 & 14 (Daniel is inspired by the Holy Spirit), - Holy Spirit: Psalm 139:7-12 (shows the Spirit is omnipresent), Job 33:4 (the Spirit of God has made me, it is creator), - Angel of the Lord: Exodus23:21 & Zechariah 3:4 (Angel of the Lord forgives sins, is sent from God, yet His name (essence) is in him), Genesis 31:13 (He claims to be God after Jacob flees from Esau) - God’s plurality: Genesis 35:1&7 God says He appeared but the verb is plural in Hebrew), Isaiah 54:5 (in Hebrew, God is the Maker but plural), Isaiah 43:11 (the Lord is the one saviour -> Isaiah 63:9 & Numbers 20:16 the Angel saved them -> Isaiah 63:10 their rebellion grieved the Holy Spirit) - God has a Son: Proverbs 30:4 “…What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,…” - GENESIS 18-19: in Genesis 18 the LORD (Jehova) appears as a man on Earth with 2 angels eating with Abraham. Then they say the three will go to Sodom and Gomorrah but the 2 angels appear there first in chapter 19. That’s because Jehova is still negotiating with Abraham. Then in 19:24 the “Lord (Jehova) rained fire on the city from the Lord (Jehova) in the heavens” according to the Hebrew. God is both in Heaven raining fire on the city and yet still physically there negotiating with Abraham. So somehow God is in both places or both persons of God are active. - Holy Spirit speaks as God: 2 Sam 23:2-3(the Spirit of the Lord spoke by me[…]the God of Israel said) - Angel of the Lord is not the Father: Exodus 23:20-21 (the Angel is sent by God (speaking), is able to forgive sins, and bears God’s name/essence) - Hebrew descriptions of God as many in one: Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one”. In Hebrew the word is eḥāḏ. - When Adam and Eve came together: Genesis 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” The Hebrew word was also eḥāḏ. If we are being consistent with language, the word eḥāḏ means 1 but it also shows many in union or as one. - Messiah/Servant’s divinity: In Isaiah 52:13, we see the words “high and exalted” (rûm nāśā) applied to the servant. The suffering Servant in Isaiah 53 that will “bare the sins” is the Messiah. The only other person ever described with those verbs is God in Isaiah 6:1 “…I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.” (Even in 57:15). God also uses those verbs about himself, in case Isaiah 6 wasn’t convincing enough in Isaiah 33:10 “Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.” So the servant is the “myself” God talks about. The servant is God. - Jesus claimed the role of Servant: In Mark 10:45 He says “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many” - Holy Spirit is God: 2 Samuel 23:2-3 “The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me” - Explicit statement of 3 instances of the same God: God speaking “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me” (Isaiah 48:16) Here’s the Trinity in the New Testament: - Explicit mention: Jesus speaking in Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” - Jesus claims Godhood and defends being One with God: John 8:18 “I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.” - Connections across books: In John 7:38-39 Jesus says “he who believes in me as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given”. In Revelations 22:1, we see God and the Lamb sitting on one throne, and the Holy Spirit (river of life) coming out from it. “ and he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb”. Even in OT Jeremiah 17:13, the “fountain of living water” is God! - Quoting OT: In Jeremiah 31:33-34 Jehova says “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their [i]hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people…” and in Hebrews 10:15-7 Paul says of the Holy Spirit “But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord…” May our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ bring you home brother ❤️✝️
@@mwhabs - Okay let me ask you this if the trinity is so dame important then why is the concept so alien to the Jews it's trinitarians who are the real heretics The real reason the church is losing people today is not because the gospel is untrue or false but because people have misinterpreted the true teachings of christ and his apostles
Coptic convert here ! Was baptized on 8 December . Thanks be to God !
Even though I am Eastern Orthodox, The witness of the Coptic Martyrs in Libya always cause me to wonder and hope that I would be as strong as they were in the midst of pending death. Particularly the 21st martyr, who was not a Christian at the time, when offered a chance to renounce Christ and save his life chose to stay with his companions and die with them. Holy Coptic Martyrs of Libya pray for us.
Holy Coptic martyrs, please pray for us.
It was great celebrating the Liturgy with you on Sunday Austin! I'm glad you enjoyed it and I loved hearing your thoughts on it. Hope to see you back soon 🙏🏽
Thanks so much for setting this up, John!
Coptic Orthodox here! Taking off shoes while in the sanctuary and while receiving communion is a regular practice within all Coptic Orthodox churches. Thank you for your video
Thanks for sharing!
Ethiopian Orthodox do the same. It's a beautiful practice.
Interesting! I've read a couple amazing books by Pope Shenouda III and got a positive picture of Coptic Orthodoxy.
2 years ago I become friend with a woman from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and this has challenged "my theology" several times. (She has lived 10 years in a monastery, so that too adds weight to her words.) But it's a REALLY old Church😳...like THE oldest, and I knew nothing about it.
Coptic Orthodox Convert here! Thanks fir checking out. Our sister Churches Armenian, Indian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, and Syriac traditions are just as beautiful. Check em out 😊
✨❤️🔥✨
Christ is with us, brother. All the Orthodox traditions are so beautiful! God bless.
There's Armenian catholic church as well. It's quite interesting 🙂
@@betrion7the Armenian Catholics are in communion with Rome, not the Oriental Orthodox
God bless you brother, and keep you in His peace until the end.
As an EO convert, I would love to see these sects of Orthodoxy reconciled. Lord, have mercy on us.
We are closer to the Latins than to the Severians.
@@eliasn.477Even Fr. Peter Heers says non Chalcedonians are closer to EO than RCs are.
@@jajohnson7809 he’s wrong as he is on many other topics.
One of the most interesting things to me, is how the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches have been separated for 1600 years, yet are still much closer to each other than EO is to the Roman Catholic Church with only a 1000 year separation
It really is fascinating how little they've changed over that time (in a good way, I'd say)
Also interesting that all of those have been separated from the Catholic church for 1000 years or more, yet all closer than Protestants (other than like, Anglo-Catholics) who separated only 500 years ago.
The Peace of Christ! "Closer" in what sense? If you are talking about rites or theology, it's unfair to compare because the latin/roman Church was always a little diferent from the other rites, even before the first divisions. And remember that Pope Francis added 21 Coptic Orthodox martyrs to Catholic list of saints. That was a great act of closeness. God bless you!
Remember also that a lot of Apostolic Churches (EO and OO bishops with their sheep) joined full communion with Rome, so the "Catholic Church" includes those Churches also.
And also: the Maronite Church never left communion with Rome
Check out Coptic Pope Shenouda's teaching. He's great. And read about the Coptic Pope before him, Saint Pope Kyrillos VI. He's amazing. He's associated with tons of miracles. Also check out Our Lady of Zeitoun that first started happening in 1968, during Pope Kyrillos' time as Pope. I love Oriental Orthodoxy. I've been attending an Oriental Orthodox church all summer. I went to a Christian (Protestant) grammar school, high school, and college, but this version of Christianity makes more sense to me. It's like all the puzzle pieces are starting to fit together. I've been blessed by all the Coptic teaching I've been encountering online.
Peace and blessings brother
Thanks for the recommendations!
Pope Shenouda book called The Life of Repentance and Purity is a big help in one's spirituality.
A Silent Patriach by Fr Daniel Fanous is about the life of Pope Kyrillos VI
Thank you for sharing!!! Loved this ♥️ God bless you.
If I weren’t Catholic I’d be Coptic. The Coptics have avery humble hearts.
There's quite a few eastern churches that are catholic. Byzantine would be just one of them. In any case, may the Lord be blessed 🙏
I attended an all English speaking Coptic Orthodox Church in Sydney Australia. They are a lovely people who have truly embraced everything Christianity stands for🙏🏼✝️
There are two Coptic Catholic parishes in the USA that I know of, on in Attwater Village (near downtown Los Angeles) and one in NYC. Perhaps there are more, but those are the two I have attended.
I'm coptic. I know many catholics who also have humble hearts. But the coptic church does produce a lot of humbleness. Because we all know we need God because we are sick with the sin nature. Not because we are better merely because the faith is fully realized.
@Marcosnationalistos nice glad to see non Egyptians also coming to our church. We have an English only coptic church in my area but I'm an arab so I go to the one that does English coptic and Arabic. However I only can read and understand English. Coptic I merely memorized from repetition and learned to read it a bit. And Arabic well I was born in usa so I never learned to read it lol.
I’m a Aussie convert to the Coptic church. And I’d love to hear more about your experience and opinions about Coptic orthodoxy
thank you for making this video. I would definitely like to see a tour of the church like what you mentioned here in the video for sure. Any update on when such a video like that would come out?
Still working on scheduling it. It's a busy time for me at work right now with lots of traveling, so it might take a little bit.
Finally! My wife and I have slowly been converting to the Copts for over a year now.
At my senior center my physical therapist who is from Egypt could not get over that an American h guessed he was Coptic Christian and knew the name of their pope. My therapist was tattooed as defender of the Coptic Christian faith in the face of Muslim attacks.
Lovely video! You should collaborate with Coptic Orthodox Answers again! You said that you want to learn more and a collaboration would be so helpful for you, our Coptic youth, and any curious 3rd parties! 🙏📈
Stoked to see this, and I can't wait for your sit down with Abouna David. Another good book to check out is "This Is My Body: The Rite of the Liturgy Explained" by H.G. Bishop Raphael.
id love to see something from you brother. Really like your interviews
@@JusticeDivineAllah me?? I'm honored! What would you want to see?
Are you thinking of converting to Coptic Orthodoxy sir? God bless you.
@@copticfanatic Hey! Actually . . . my family and I already did! We were received into the Coptic Church last month.
@@adoseoftheosis Anything concerning your experience with the Coptic Orthodox Church? Any new theology that you learned? What made you convert? It'd be lovely to see.
A Tamil speaking Catholic Church in Ipoh Malaysia also required shoes off when I visited. Found it refreshing
Sounds like a wonderful experience. Apostolic worship is beautiful!
It was Saint Vladimir the Great that sent envoys to Hagia Sophia. Peter the Great lived 700 years later
The big differences between the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, besides the miaphysitism, monophysitism, and dyophysitism disputes, arise from being under hostile rule for most of its existence. The Coptic Orthodox Church doesn’t focus much on theosis, but rather on humility. Also, there is a separation and passive resistance to Governmental authority.
That’s crazy I just commented on this saying that they are veryy humble Christians.
Well said
While the conversation seems most often to circle around the possibility of reunion between Rome and Orthodoxy, it seems like reunion between the Eastern Orthodox and the Coptic/Oriental Orthodox is a much more likely/achievable goal.
EO and OO certainly seem more similar, but then again, Rome is a bit keener on ecumenism
Good to see that you had a fruitful visit. Looking forward to the interview and church tour. Yes, intercommunion/reunion between the Coptic and Eastern Orthodox would of course be wonderful, I'm not sure how that would work out on the ground, who would be able to make that happen. I suppose there are patriarchs/bishops? I'm not really sure, but it would be a beautiful thing, especially if the differences are only semantic at this point. God bless you
I am EO and in our church OO christians can take a communion. We have some ethiopians but I dont know do they take the communion
@@Hoodinator17 i am finnish orthodox in finland so i think we are far away from you anyway
Antiochian Orthodox (EO) are in a sort of limited communion with Oriental Orthodox from my understanding since 1991 or something.
I go to an Orthodox church ( not Coptic ) and it's the same, we have a slik napkin to make sure we don't lose the body. All the women veil without exception but it is predominantly catering to Greeks Romanian and Bulgarians and Russians. And it's an OLD calendar orthodox church. Exactly as you described the Coptic church. So much revenrence etc.
Same. My church is Serbian.
Which Orthodox jurisdiction? I am in Alaska and in the Russian Orthodox Diocese of Sitka and Alaska (OCA), we are on the old calendar as well. Austin, if you haven't done one yet, maybe an episode on old calendar vs. New calendar conundrum in the Orthodox Church might be a possible topic for a future episode or interview.
There’s an Ethiopian Orthodox Monastery in Carroll County - Saint Arsema’s. I’m right across the PA line, so it’s not far from where 8 live. I’ve wanted to visit but have been too cowardly to do so. You should visit and make a video! Let me know and I’ll meet you there! 😁 Have loved your channel for years. Keep up the good work.
Where?? I grew up in Carroll County!
I’m not sure if it’s a Westminster or Manchester address, but it’s between MD 30 and 97 on Bachmans Valley Road.
@@GospelSimplicity th-cam.com/video/N5Yni5TJifE/w-d-xo.html
@@GospelSimplicity I wrote up a longer response on the contact page of your website but then either lost it or accidentally sent it mid-editing.
Love all the naturally occurring acts of reverence and your take on your experience. I haven't been to an oriental orthodox liturgy but have been to a Maronite and a Chaldean Catholic liturgy with the Chaldean liturgy coming out of the Assyrian Church of the East tradition of the Divine Liturgy of Addai and Mari (I heard it in Syriac but there was an English translation). But the Coptic Liturgy is fascinating to me as their oldest anaphora belongs to the Alexandrine liturgical family. To my understanding it is celebrated in Great Lent and Nativity Lent (the other seasons the celebrate a Byzantine liturgy). The Alexandrian Liturgy and especially the anaphora actually is closer to the Roman Canon than to EO liturgies.
One book I highly recommend is Eucharist by Louis Bouyer. Its scholarship is a bit dated - but primarily just his acceptance that the liturgical book that was discovered and named the "Apostolic Tradition" was a liturgy of Hippolytus. He was somewhat skeptical but since he was close to and admired the great liturgist Dom Bernard Botte who wrote the supposedly decisive analysis, he deferred to his judgement. Unlike most, however, he correctly held that it was never the liturgy used in the Roman church (for which he had an interesting theory to square with the "accepted" authorship of Hippolytus). In any case ,it is a great book for its tracing of the development of families of liturgies and especially what he discerned as their Jewish roots(certain aspects of that is his own particular view as well). His chapter on the Roman Canon is excellent. The bonus is that he wrote much of this immediately before the Council and then finished it with final chapters on his views of the reform of the Liturgy circa 1968-1969. Since he served on the consilium that created the liturgy his comments are important. He was still optimistic when he wrote this - he was more critical within a few years. He later revealed that he pretty much loathed Bugnini in his memoirs and he specified why. That is a different book but fascinating for both its literary focus and the aforementioned comments on the consilium. He belonged to the Communio school along with Ratzinger, Du Lubac, and Congar, and Balthazar and was a multi- talented theologian (liturgy, spiritual life, systematic theology of a sort, and ecumenical work).
Hi Austin, Have you ever checked out the Eastern Catholic Churches? Definitely necessary to understand the fullness of the Catholic faith
I'm excited. I want to see this.
Really cool. Have you ever visited an eastern rite Catholic Church? Byzantine, Melkite, Chaldean etc? If you like Eastern Orthodoxy, you would love it!
Kinda in reference to your question of reading material on this topic is John A. Mcguckin
St. Cyril of Alexandria: The Christological Controversy, Its History, Theology, and Texts. Seems to be the primary text in this thread.
I’m Eastern Orthodox, but I’ve also wondered about the works in Oriental Orthodoxy.
The most important works showcasing their theology are supposedly
The discourses of Philoxenus of Mabbug (a syrian oriental orthodox christian)
And
The book of lamentations by Gregory of Narek (an armenian oriental orthodox)
As a coptic orthodox Christian I would disagree and direct readers to Cyril of Alexandria “On the Unity of Christ” as the most adhered to expression of our Christology specifically. I can personally attest that in my circles, both ecclesial and in a coptic seminary even when later texts are read they tend to harken back to Cyril’s formula of miaphysis.
@@johnrefila but St Cyril lived before the separation of the Chalcedonians from the Church. If he wants to understand why we believe we are the sole inheritors of the Orthodox Faith, then Sts Philoxenus, Severus, and Gregory of Narek are wonderful saints to read, since they explain the very pertinent controversies.
I like the beautiful simplicity of a common orthodox father that clearly expounds miaphysis. It is true modern chalcedonian scholarship is shedding light on the fact that these later figures adhere to the thought and expression of Cyril, but in many EO circles there is so much fog of war about this and these figures are cast as heretics. As such I will do what many of these figures themselves did and say “I believe what Cyril did” 😁
My goal is not to cast the OO as the sole recipients of the orthodox faith - whatever you believe about that concept it seems to me less helpful than finding the common ground and seeking unity rather than division.
@@johnrefila the first part of that is definitely a valid point - about how at the end of the day we point back to Ephesus 431 (which includes St Cyril among others).
But it's important for us to note that the necessary path for unity after a full schism is that there has for all time been only 1 legitimate communion of Orthodox bishops, only 1 Church, as it says in the Creed, and that everyone outside of communion does not possess any sacraments of the Church.
Just as the term "one Lord Jesus Christ" does not and cannot signify 2 sons or persons, so too "one Church" does not include anything other than the 1 communion, which OO is that exclusive communion and Faith.
If the Chalcedonians now are starting to abandon their old ways, then that's good, but their good intentions without converting to the Orthodox Faith still leaves them as schismatics without any sacraments, and therefore utterly outside the Church.
@@dioscoros I have a different perspective but it does not seem that this dialogue will lead much of anywhere in the TH-cam comments section. Welcome and much love to our Chalcedonian brothers and sisters!
I have read "The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined," by Fr. V.C. Samuel, and Indian Orthodox priest, and am reading "The Council of Chalcedon and the Armenian Church," by Bishop (later Catholicos of all Armenians) Karekin Sarkissian. Either would provide good background on the reasons why the churches now known as Oriental Orthodox rejected Chalcedon.
I agree fully with your point: to divide over extremely technical language that, in any case, cannot capture that which is indescribable in human terms, is beyond my understanding. Jesus is both God and man. This seems sufficient.
I pray that you will visit St. Catherine Monastery at Mt. Sinai.
I find that fasting elevates the celebration, I have been to a EO Liturgy and as a Catholic of the Roman Rite we still are suppose to fast for an hour to receive communion. The reason we give for not using Leaven as Theological in nature, to put it simply its Referring back to the Passover that Jews still celebrate and our savior being a sinless/unblemished lamb. in the Old Testament unleavened bread is used because of the rush they left from Egypt so much that they had no time for their bread to rise.
Blessings in Christ! !!
Ienjoy your content especially showing other sides of Christianity with the charity you show without an axe to grind.
1:59 polyphony is very common in eastern churches
Western Christianity used to have more polyphonic chanting, but organs became more popular.
I like what you said about feeling people are forcing things. I go to a Serbian church and many people ask why I don’t go to an OCA church and that is exactly why lol
Teach me more brother😊
A good starter book on Coptic Orthodoxy that's also an easy read is Andrew Youssef's Oriental Orthodoxy Unveiled
Thanks!
Hello brother God bless you! ✝🙏❤ I would recommend you read these books as an intro for the Chalcedonian schism and the Christological controversies of the 5th century:
1) The Council of Chalcedon Re-Examined by VC Samuel
2) Christology and the Council of Chalcedon by Father Shenouda Ishaq
One category of videos I have is Coptic/Oriental. The first 2 interviews are by the 10 Minute Bible Hour and they’re very good!! Link below…
th-cam.com/play/PLshzehuYYw0tLAbXDZ3zH_6uf_UUl1V7T.html&si=TSViePRQFXNcY38H
In the Middle East it’s not cold like Alaska where taking off shoes equals frostbite.
I think that besides the burning bush (which is in Egypt where St. Catherine’s Monastery is located) and where Muslims take off their shoes… it is more understandable.
Copts in Colorado wear shoes.
Here are some book recommendations for you let me know what you think
About the church fathers:
1) When the Church was Young
About Orthodoxy in general:
1) Orthodoxy vs. Heterodoxy
2) Becoming Orthodox
About history of Coptic church:
1) Introduction to the Coptic Orthodox Church by Fr. Tadros Malaty
About Protestantism vs Orthodoxy
1) Rock & Sand
Thanks!
coptic orthodox convert here, they have the love of God i was looking for.
book recommendation: The Release of The Spirit by His Holiness Pope Shenouda 3
i pinky promise you the book will transform your life.
EO here and I think it's a tragedy that we haven't been able to reconcile our differences especially when they do seem to be based in linguistic misunderstandings. However My spiritual father once warned me that the issue isn't just that the language was different. It's way too hard to get into in a YT comment. In short part of the reason reunion is hard is because we believe that the ecumenical councils are inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to guide the church to right belief. The rejection of the 4th ecumenical council then the subsequent absence from further ecumenical councils is the hurdle. In order to return to communion the Coptic church would need to in essence go back and retroactivly confirm the outcomes of those councils. It doesn't matter that the EO layperson can go to a Coptic liturgy and understand and agree with everything that is happening and vice versa the ultimate issue lies with the ecclesiastical hierarchy. We can only pray for a reunion, Lord have mercy!
That's an interesting point. I had thought of the conflicting saints, but not the underlying issue of the inspiration/guidance of the councils.
Actually, the hurdle is that the Chalcedonians have to essentially go back to what was declared in Ephesus 431, such as in the Homilies of St Theodotus of Ancyra and the Third Letter of St Cyril to Nestorius, in order to see why Chalcedon and future Chalcedonian false-councils were indeed false.
Then, the Chalcedonians will be freed from a falsification of the gospel, will be able to truly accept the 3 Holy Councils, and the later councils of Ephesus 2 and 3, Manazkert, etc.
There is no way the Council of Chalcedon was inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes I really don't know if people make this claim out of ignorance or delusion.
A person who is honest would not make such claims even if they accept Chalcedon.
So it is not the Oriental Orthodox that needs to accept Chalcedon or the Council which supposedly fixed Chalcedon or any other Chalcedonians Councils. Rather the Chalcedonians need to abandon them. if not atleast see them as local synods(i don't know if that even is a right thing to do).
It is clear for anyone who can see the problems that are in these Councils.
And by the way the misunderstanding was never based on linguistic.Because the people who were in Conflict with each other spoke the same language.
The false idea that has been spreading by modern theologians, that the misunderstanding was linguistic based is really misleading.
Perhaps lay people from the two opposites theological beliefs might sound as saying the same thing.
Or if one was to speak without terminologies, perhaps the disagreement can be reduced.
But then again, one or two natures, one will vs two wills are very basic language.
Besides the Terminological Development that was done by the Chalcedonians can not be ignored since it was not faithful to the Fathers.
If such things exist then there is no misunderstandings but fundamental Disagreements.and not to forget all the shameful things that were done in the Council of Chalcedon, wether on Ecclesiastical or theological matters and judgments.
These are matters that can not be easily ignored. they have to be fixed if there ought to be real reconciliation.
Thank you for your video!! If you are looking for a good book that will give you insight into the Coptic Church, please read A Silent Patriarch by Daniel Fanous. It’s a beautiful biography of Pope Kyrillos VI that was a huge push for me to convert to Coptic Orthodoxy.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Come to the coptic orthodox , God bless you
Orthodox prayer life by Fr Matthew the Poor
I'm grieved that the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox remain out of communion. I hope the Holy Spirit will act to rectify that separation. There's a very nice biography of the Coptic Pope, St. Kyrillos VI, published by St. Vladimir's Seminary Press. He was like a modern day desert father, and had numerous spiritual gifts.
I've heard great things about this book!
Love your videos.
Book recs
The Great Mystery of Life: An Introduction to the Coptic Orthodox Church
Oriental Orthodoxy Unveiled
Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity
Orthodox Christology - Fr. Peter Farrington
Chalcedon Re-Examined - Fr. V.C. Samuel
-spiritual books-
Words for our Time
The Silent Patriarch
The Life of Repentance and Purity
Thanks! The Great Mystery of Life is what I open at the end!
❤
What Protestant sect are you apart of
What orthodox sect are you a part of?
Not going to any church that doesn't have pews or chairs.
Jesus and his disciples sat/reclined for Passover and the first Lord's Supper. I'm in good company.
You are talking about how good it is but your video doesnt even show us that you attended liturgy
I have a general aversion to recording liturgies. I recognize that these are sacred spaces and people are there to worship, not be put on TH-cam. I suppose you'll just have to take my word that I actually attended.
They are Severians.
you need to visit an Orthodox monastery. Orthodoxy is not in the books.
Pls go to a syro malankara catholic Church!!!
I have! You might enjoy the tour video I did at one
Have you looked into Lutheranism?
O Simplicime! So you are still flirting with Catholicism-lite?
Have you gotten a chance to attend an Eastern Catholic Parish yet? It’s like Orthodoxy without self contradiction
Not yet, but I'd like to
@@GospelSimplicity I think there's a Ukrainian Catholic Church in Bmore. Near Curtis Bay I think. Mellite Greek Catholic in NOVA, beautiful Liturgy, attended once years ago. Recently attended Ukrainian Catholic in Carnegie, PA (Fr. Jason Charron). A hike, but Pittsburgh area is cool imho. St. Anthony's huge reliquary in Pittsburgh, Heinz chapel, St. Paul's Cathedral, lots to appreciate from a faith perspective
Don't forget the Maronite rite ! The chanting is beautiful.
I wish it was a simple semantic difference. When it comes to the question of WHO Jesus is, even the smallest difference is an enormous deal breaker. One can easily say pisssssh Nestorious or Arius was only semantically wrong.... sorry no deal. It is not enough to say Jesus is BOTH God-Man, if what you mean and I mean are different, it is not the words but the deffinitions that matter, and the diffinitions are different between the Mia and Dia.
STOP WASTING YOUR TIME DOING RESEARCH AND EXPLORING EVERY DENOMINATION!
How much longer would it take you to admit and believe the Church founded by Christ is the Holy Catholic Church?
One God, One Christ, and One Church.
Come home brother to the Catholic Apostolic Church, which outside THERE IS NO SALVATION!
That's not what your holy infallible pope claims lol. Funny to say the least that youd be this worried about converting a christian when not even your high bishop wants to convert muslims and hindus...
Did you call the priest “father” like The Lord Jesus Christ Literally tells us not to do in Matthew 23:9 ?
😂 you don’t call your father, father?
1 Corinthians 4:15: Paul says, "For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel".
@@jasielrodriguez5836 I don’t call priests “father”.
@@jg7923 k 😂
@@jg7923 You don't have to. Priests won't care. If you meet a priest, shake his hand. Call him "mister."
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
The trinity isn’t in scripture.
Scriptures that revealed Most Holy Trinity, condemned false prophets as well, like Simon the Magician, Muhammad of Mecca the caravan robber and fornicator, Joseph Smith the pervert, doomsday-freak Mueller etc.... My dear, denying Triune God is dreadful and mortal sin that can lead to eternal separation from Him.
@@scripturequest - I know I agree with you
May God help us all and open our eyes to the truth instead of simply reciting what others tell you to. ✝️
Here’s the Trinity in the Old Testament:
- Daniel 7:9 (sees thrones & Ancient of Days sits on one, and has an appearance of man), Dan 7:13 (sees Son of Man & even the angels worship him), Dan 5:11 & 14 (Daniel is inspired by the Holy Spirit),
- Holy Spirit: Psalm 139:7-12 (shows the Spirit is omnipresent), Job 33:4 (the Spirit of God has made me, it is creator),
- Angel of the Lord: Exodus23:21 & Zechariah 3:4 (Angel of the Lord forgives sins, is sent from God, yet His name (essence) is in him), Genesis 31:13 (He claims to be God after Jacob flees from Esau)
- God’s plurality: Genesis 35:1&7 God says He appeared but the verb is plural in Hebrew), Isaiah 54:5 (in Hebrew, God is the Maker but plural), Isaiah 43:11 (the Lord is the one saviour -> Isaiah 63:9 & Numbers 20:16 the Angel saved them -> Isaiah 63:10 their rebellion grieved the Holy Spirit)
- God has a Son: Proverbs 30:4 “…What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,…”
- GENESIS 18-19: in Genesis 18 the LORD (Jehova) appears as a man on Earth with 2 angels eating with Abraham. Then they say the three will go to Sodom and Gomorrah but the 2 angels appear there first in chapter 19. That’s because Jehova is still negotiating with Abraham. Then in 19:24 the “Lord (Jehova) rained fire on the city from the Lord (Jehova) in the heavens” according to the Hebrew. God is both in Heaven raining fire on the city and yet still physically there negotiating with Abraham. So somehow God is in both places or both persons of God are active.
- Holy Spirit speaks as God: 2 Sam 23:2-3(the Spirit of the Lord spoke by me[…]the God of Israel said)
- Angel of the Lord is not the Father: Exodus 23:20-21 (the Angel is sent by God (speaking), is able to forgive sins, and bears God’s name/essence)
- Hebrew descriptions of God as many in one: Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one”. In Hebrew the word is eḥāḏ.
- When Adam and Eve came together: Genesis 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” The Hebrew word was also eḥāḏ. If we are being consistent with language, the word eḥāḏ means 1 but it also shows many in union or as one.
- Messiah/Servant’s divinity: In Isaiah 52:13, we see the words “high and exalted” (rûm nāśā) applied to the servant. The suffering Servant in Isaiah 53 that will “bare the sins” is the Messiah. The only other person ever described with those verbs is God in Isaiah 6:1 “…I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.” (Even in 57:15). God also uses those verbs about himself, in case Isaiah 6 wasn’t convincing enough in Isaiah 33:10 “Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.” So the servant is the “myself” God talks about. The servant is God.
- Jesus claimed the role of Servant: In Mark 10:45 He says “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many”
- Holy Spirit is God: 2 Samuel 23:2-3 “The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me”
- Explicit statement of 3 instances of the same God: God speaking “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me” (Isaiah 48:16)
Here’s the Trinity in the New Testament:
- Explicit mention: Jesus speaking in Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”
- Jesus claims Godhood and defends being One with God: John 8:18 “I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”
- Connections across books: In John 7:38-39 Jesus says “he who believes in me as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this he spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given”. In Revelations 22:1, we see God and the Lamb sitting on one throne, and the Holy Spirit (river of life) coming out from it. “ and he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb”. Even in OT Jeremiah 17:13, the “fountain of living water” is God!
- Quoting OT: In Jeremiah 31:33-34 Jehova says “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their [i]hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people…” and in Hebrews 10:15-7 Paul says of the Holy Spirit “But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord…”
May our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ bring you home brother ❤️✝️
@@mwhabs - Okay let me ask you this if the trinity is so dame important then why is the concept so alien to the Jews it's trinitarians who are the real heretics
The real reason the church is losing people today is not because the gospel is untrue or false but because people have misinterpreted the true teachings of christ and his apostles