Great video Austin. I used to be a Muslim, but I then left Islam for Orthodoxy. From my studies, the theology of Orthodoxy is sound and based in history. The spiritual life also, as an Orthodox Christian, is… indescribable (and that is an understatement). May God guide and bless us all! God bless you.
Beautiful brother!! Please what led you to Orthodoxy? Would love to hear your story. I know there are also many similarities Bcz Orthodox we also do prostrations when praying, we face certain directions 🧭 (East) when praying or attending liturgy and also our churches face East and are sometimes dome shape like in Islam. And lots of fasting. Mohammad copied many things from early Christianity which he admired. He was just an Iconoclast and didn’t agree with icons (seeing it as idolatry) so he invented his new religion (or a satanic apparition appeared to him), but either way. We also do lots of prayers throughout our day or week. Would love to also hear your comparison of it.
I still remember my senior telling me that her Christian group in University was curious about Church history and other matters. By the end of the 4 years, 5 of them became Catholic (with 1 becoming a religious sister), and 2 of them becoming Orthodox (1 Russian 1 Greek). None of them remained a “mere Christian” or whatever they started off with. That story made a lasting impact on me.
Because of your interview with Father Josiah Trenham, I began searching for an Orthodox Church to attend. Growing up low-church Protestant, there are definitely some dogmas that I struggled with. Especially the Marian dogmas of perpetual virginity and assumption. As time went on, these things were explained to me in a way that just made sense. I can thank my priest for that. The Orthodox life is also a strict one. Lenten fasts and prayer regimen are basically the antithesis of western life. But in all honesty, it's the rigorous work that makes me appreciate Orthodoxy more. I may not be able to earn my salvation, that was already bought for me when Christ made the ultimate sacrifice, but I feel like I'm putting my money where my mouth is in terms of faith. I became a catechumen in August of this year. I can proudly say that I will be able to share this deep and ancient faith tradition with my children when they are born. That alone makes all the hard work worth it. Thank you for introducing me to Orthodoxy. I'm but one of the many lives you've touched with your content. May God bless you and keep you!
Whatever your reflections on Orthodoxy are at the moment, you've been a wonderful facilitator in introducing many great minds to this Orthodox convert. I will be forever touched by your interview with the sweet and loving Fr. Seraphim Aldea of Mull Monastery. Christ is risen!
That interview killed my Evangelical positivist, rationalist, intellectual arguments in opposition to Holy Orthodoxy. I knew that whatever he was doing was clearly working and what I was doing wasn't. I've never seen Christ-like love like that in another human being as clearly than in that monk. Clearly the Orthodox Church shows the way to Theosis.
As a person who grew up Roman Catholic, lived a robust life of participation in the RCC, including four years of monastic life and over a decade as a lay ecclesial minister, who then, after almost two decades of being drawn to deeper engagement with the entire tradition of Orthodox Christianity, finally became an orthodox Christian about a decade ago, I want to say that I really like the way you talk about this. I also appreciate from my perspective as a pastoral psychotherapist. The process of unmooring from the tradition in which you grew up and were formed to seek, follow and know Christ is profoundly disturbing, and I would not recommend it unless you have forged a profound commitment to following Christ wherever Christ leads. That said, I also don’t think it is a good idea to become a catechumen until and unless you are doing so from a movement of joy at what you’ve seen in the Orthodox church, and are driven by love to give yourself fully to Christ in and through his Body, which you have become convinced is the Orthodox Church. I’ve learned over the past decade that there is vastly more difference than I thought between Orthodox Christianity and even Roman Catholicism, and that I still have so much more to learn. Whether you want to be Orthodox or not is not something I can know, and I don’t think anyone should do so without first having recognized that it is a way of surrendering reliance on one’s own ability to “think it through.” I mean, we should definitely think with sobriety and diligence about such weighty matters, but ultimately, the faith is more given than figured out. I applaud your investigation of how one best goes about being a disciple of Jesus, and appreciate your sharing your journey and thoughts. May your search lead you ever more fully into the arms of our loving God!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I grew up a fundamentalist Baptist, although through my teen years my mother no longer attended any church. I converted to an Apostolic Pentecostal church in my twenties, but quickly fell away... "All fire, but no fireplace," as Fr. Barnabas Powell says. I spent my thirties as an atheist, then Taoist, Buddhist, occultist, finally ending up a more or less agnostic deist in my mid-forties. All through all of that, I couldn't get away from Jesus- I could always sense Him there, waiting in the wings, so to speak. I denied His very existence, refuted Him, denounced Him, insulted Him, mocked His Holy Name (God forgive me), and still in moments of dire need I would feel the urge to speak to Him in prayer. In the past few years, I sought to figure out what I believed. About a year ago, I asked God, if He was real, and really there listening, to let me know Who He was. And slowly I felt Him returning into my heart and mind, over months, as I opened up and prayed a little more often... Still unsure who I was even talking to, not wanting to believe, yet being led little by little. Finally, in September of this year, I was completely broken by a personal loss in my family. I confessed to God my belief in Him, I asked Him to forgive me, although I was still hesitant and stiff-necked, my heart still mostly hardened against Him. At the end of October, I experienced another breaking moment, and my heart was shattered. Not so much for myself this time, but for the world, and what I saw happening in it. I hit my knees, literally, for the first time in decades, and wept before God, begging His forgiveness, to please help us all, to help me be what He wanted. I began to read the Scriptures again for the first time in a very, very long time. I prayed every night before sleep that He show me which way to go-- I didn't want to go back to a Pentecostal church; I had spent a couple of years recently as a hired musician in a Methodist church, and while I admired the simple love of others in the congregants, there was a worldliness there that I found unappealing... But I was willing to go wherever He wanted me. "Unwillingly willing," one might say lol. Exactly a week later, I spoke with my oldest friend, someone who is like a brother to me whom I've known all my life, but who I didn't talk to very often any more. We'd last spoken several months to a year prior, and I remembered at the time he'd said he was exploring "Orthodoxy"-- I didn't ask at the time what exactly that meant. I knew nothing about the Orthodox Church, except that there was an episode of 'Seinfeld' where it featured, and I had some vague ideas about Eastern European "national" churches but was unsure what it entailed, despite having been interested in religion and spiritual traditions since childhood. My old friend was emailing me to let me know that a mutual, older friend of ours had passed away in an accident. We commiserated over his passing briefly, and then began to talk about other things. Specifically, I told him that I'd begun to pray again, had rededicated myself to Christ. He told me that he was a catechumen in the Orthodox Church now, and that he was preparing for chrismation in December if all went well. I asked him what it was all about. He briefly laid out their doctrines (after warning me that he himself was still a babe in the faith, and really had no business teaching) on original sin, Man's relationship to God, how the Fall affected that, the Atonement, God's plan for us. It hit me like a 10-ton spiritual sledgehammer. In a good - a VERY good- way. So many things that I had idly speculated about throughout the years, whenever my mind would wander to my then-former Christian beliefs, thoughts and ideas where I would think, "If the faith were like THAT, then maybe I could have held onto it", half-formed musings at the time, or so I thought... His explanation of Orthodoxy reinforced all that, as though I had been an archaeologist digging in the dirt, occasionally partially uncovering a bit here, a bit there, and suddenly all the concealing dirt was blown away in an instant, and I saw my half-formed ideas shown as they really were, and that they were all connected parts of a greater whole that was more perfect and more beautiful than I could have ever imagined. While I didn't have a full vision, I kept seeing in my mind's eye a vague representation of a heavy cloth covered in dust and dirt, being snatched away to uncover what was beneath, and what was beneath was me, it was being pulled away from covering my face and letting in a breath of the sweetest, freshest air and a golden light... That kept replaying in my head, as I tried consciously to come to grips with everything, my mind reeling and joyous and absolutely smitten with the simple yet profound beauty of what I had read. I kept re-reading his email, wondering if it was too good to be true? Was there a catch somewhere? How had I never been taught this before? God really WASN'T an angry tyrant who nailed his son to a tree and then pointed to him, saying to humanity "See what you made me do?!?" That was a little more than a month ago. I have felt the Holy Spirit leading me onwards, as I've read and learned, pondered and studied and argued with myself, for hours on end, nearly every single day. I praise God that He has kept His Church secure and full of His Light throughout the ages. I'm still learning, getting ready to attend a service for the first time, and looking forward to becoming a catechumen myself soon. I have seen more and more people expressing an interest in Orthodoxy, seemingly out of nowhere, and it blows my mind. Finding guys in a black metal chat group suddenly popping up declaring their newfound love for Christ, asking if anyone knows about Orthodoxy... In a group formerly full of avowed pagans, satanists, atheists, most of whom would previously only spoken of *burning* churches, and now they're looking for one to attend 😃 God is indeed great. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ, and THANK YOU GOD, for your Holy Spirit, moving across the world like a mighty flood in these dark days.
@@aleisterbroley900 glory to God... Unknown are the ways God uses to draw the souls to Him... Go ahead without looking back... Come home... Praise the Lord for His mercy .. His Holy Spirit guides you to His true Church... Blessings🙏
@@casparbrock7441 same. Grew up Roman Catholic... Did nothing for me. Then I went through my agnostic atheist phase in high school, dove right afterward pretty hard into Zen Buddhism for about 10 years. This was great for me at the time since it didn't throw hardly any dogma at me, but did show me the importance of ritual; I still value the techniques for watching my thoughts that I picked up during this phase. Early to mid 20s I dabbled around a little with Chaos Magick, tarot, psychedelics, etc. Never got too hard into all that thankfully, but it did confirm to me that there was a metaphysical reality behind the curtain of the present reality, and helped shatter my materialism. Thus, I also tried to adopt Asatru and Odinism for a couple years. I still find it fascinating to learn about my ancestors and what they believed, but as a spiritual pursuit of truth, it was simply a dead end. Finally, orthodoxy came to me, quite literally as a calling. That is honestly the best way I can describe it... I had no interests at all in being a weird Jesus freak, but it was a series of powerful synchronicities I couldn't ignore know which directly put me into a church. So I got curious, went down the rabbit hole, and realized that everything I thought I knew about Christianity in the West was just about completely wrong; I still continue to learn more and more and more about the faith the deeper I dig... It's never ending. I've been a part of the Antiochan Orthodox Church for almost 4 years now (this Pascha), and I've never felt more at home.
@@protestant7778 the word also says one man considers one day holy and another considers all holy. Both do so unto the Lord. Paul in Romans 14 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. The Church came together on the first day of the week to honor the Resurrection not because of the Pope. So be sure you know what the heck you’re talking about before you start making claims. Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 1 Corinthians 16 1 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
Totality of Scripture The entire book of Romans does NOT mention the word "sabbath" even once! What Romans ch.14 is speaking of is 👉FASTING for the Lord 👉(Romans 14:6) a day of fasting! Of which I understand we are at liberty to choose what day to fast or not! NOWHERE in the Bible is the sabbath day, a day of the week to pick or choose !!!!
As far as your concern about not being able to be western to be Orthodox, listen to St. John of Xianghai, "One must never feel that he has to be Eastern to be Orthodox. The West was Orthodox for 1000 years". Far from being strange or disingenuous, the Orthodox Church IS part of the heritage of the West too :D
Cope. Eastern Orthodoxy lacks relevance. It plays a very small part on the world stage. It’s obvious Catholicism is the true church and even non-believers recognize that and treat the Catholic Church as such.
I am a devoted Roman Catholic but I have learned a lot about the Orthodox Church through your channel. I am not sure if I would have been exposed to it otherwise. I am richer for having read some of their texts and will continue to do so in the future. Thank you for your channel.
Im a Sikh, who has been studying Theology at a postgraduate level for several years. I have been tracing your journey for the past year and have been inspired by your honesty, openness as well as the recourses that you have shared. Perhaps one of the ways of overcoming your challenge with what (at least to me) perhaps seems like a “cultural shock” is the fact that Christianity really is a middle eastern tradition which has for so long been claimed by a western hermeneutical experience, mainly due to the way western culture has formed in the reception of Christian ideals, teachings and traditions.
@@kimberlymoore8172 These guys remind me of the disciples of Christ arguing about who is the greatest. Merry Christmas everyone. Hope to meet all Orthodox & Catholics in heaven.
I was an evangelical pastor and educated through the Vineyard Institute and have as of this year become a catechumen in the Greek Orthodox church. Would love to chat with you about this at some point regarding your questions/issues (for lack of a better term). I think I can bring knowledge from the best of both worlds and give light as to why I went east. Certainly, visiting cities like Thessaloniki and Corinth, going to the Republic of Georgia, and learning about the history and continuity of the church in these places helped tremendously. Also, learning about how ancient people think and viewed the world was really helpful to understanding Orthodox "thinking". Anyways, would love to chat, I think it would be valuable for both of us!
Testimonies like yours are most valuable, since who knows better Protestantism than its pastors? , more than laity... So you can help our friend with his hesitation... In fact this phenomenon of whole protestant congregations with their pastors converting to Orthodoxy is unique... God bless you brother and may enlighten Austin to feel the certainty about Holy Orthodoxy in his heart... Blessings
You can read Becoming Orthodox by former evangelical pastor Peter Gillquist. Former non practicing Protestant here, being Orthodox since 25 years, after 2 years after finding it.
@@zealousideal Wow, what a powerful testimony from you and the OP. I'm Catholic, but I believe Orthodox also shares apostolic authority unlike Protestantism, with all due respect to the latter. I tolerate and respect -- love even -- the erring (which I believe to be Protestants), but I have nothing for the error (primarily "Protestantism" and its heretical teachings that vary from one denomination to another). That might not sound charitable, but on the contrary, I'm saying that out of love and charity. While I personally believe that Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, don't get me wrong, Orthodox is infinitely better than Protestantism. The fact that there are far, far, far more pastors or more learned Protestants, usually after undergoing serious study, that leave their denominations for the Catholic or Orthodox faith than priests going the other way round (coincidentally or not, are usually those that have been deposed from office too because of abuses from what I've seen so far), while not proof by itself, should give anyone a pause. It's usually the laity (usually by reason of feelings) that leave Catholic/Orthodox faith for Protestantism. On the other hand, the Protestant "laity" usually leave by reason of "reason," and emotions are only secondary.
I converted a couple years ago to EO after roughly 20 years as a protestant. I applaud you for being willing to make this journey, and to do so in such a public forum! You may have misunderstood what was said about the exclusivity of Orthodoxy. What the Orthodox hold fast to, what we draw hard lines on, is what the church is. We believe that the EO church is the church created by Jesus and the Apostles. I converted in large part due to the historical accuracy of this claim. However, even though we are bold in our claims about the church, the sacraments are still a mystery, even to us within the EO church. We can't claim to know how salvation works - we just know what we are supposed to do in the practice of the church. As a result, I have actually found that it is less likely than any other form of Christianity for those in the EO church to point the finger and claim that other people are not saved. In fact, when an Orthodox person is completely honest, they will likely say that they don't know for certain that they themselves are saved. This is actually the most honest approach to salvation - only God knows; it is our job to follow the traditions of His church. This isn't an acceptance of Universalism, it is just to say we don't know who else could be saved, and it's not our place to know. We continue the traditions that have been passed down to us. With regards to the other forms of Christianity, some EO may be bold enough to say they aren't Christian, but this is different than saying we know they are not saved. We simply know that they are not following the traditions formed by Christ and the Apostles. They are following traditions that have Christian elements, but they are not in the church. This is hard for us westerners to grapple with because we grew up in a multi-denominational world, but consider the EO perspective: the EO have maintained the pre-schism traditions as closely as possible. This is a perspective that comes from a time when there was truly one church, and not a bunch of denominations to sort through. The EO have held to that while the rest of the world changed. This is why the EO would not say that all Christians are "Orthodox." As bold as the EO claim is, when I look back on all I was taught as a protestant (I also have a Master's degree in theology from an Evangelical college), I feel that the Protestant/Evangelical churches actually make much bolder claims. In these western forms of Christianity, where sola scriptura and sola fide are the cornerstone of theology, pastors will not only claim to know how salvation works, but also who is saved and who is not. Believe the correct interpretation and say the right prayer and you're saved. Never heard the teaching nor said the prayer? Damned for eternity. This view seems much bolder to me, and this theology has incredibly harsh consequences to those who are outside of the Protestant world. How could so many people be damned by God? One of the few "outs" that Western Christians have to this quandary is to resort to Calvinism - personally I found that spiritual paradigm too dark to bear. Sorry if this was too long. I encourage you to keep inquiring. More than anything, I try to stress to other Christians how different Eastern Orthodoxy is. It is a total theological shift that should not be underestimated, and even if you choose to convert sometime in the future, you will need to pace yourself and give yourself time. One good thing about EO is that it's not really based on head knowledge (western thought), but rather it is based on experiential knowledge (eastern thought) ie being part of the life of the Church. So if you really want to understand EO, just keep visiting services as the EO go through the liturgical cycle. Highly recommended services: Forgiveness Vespers and of course, Pascha. God Bless, peace be with you.
Former Protestant here as well. The “a journey to fullness of the faith” DVD series, introduction to orthodoxy, a 101 if you will, by Father Barnabas Powell a former Pentecostal, really helped me navigate some of these issues, as I similarly struggled with whether I really was a Christian as a Protestant. Well, we are all on different paths and responsible for what is laid before us and what we do with it. The title itself which mentions the FULLNESS of the faith was in itself helpful. I believe he said that as a Protestant his faith was just “too small”. This made sense to me. I just plain didn’t know. But once I found out, I choose to follow where the truth would lead me so as to grow INTO the fullness of my faith, which for me is the Orthodox Church.
This was extremely well put. In my experience, Orthodox are the only Christians who don't automatically assume all Muslims/Buddhists/Hindus/etc. go to hell because they haven't prayed the Sinner's Prayer. Rather, God will judge us based on how what we know and how we respond - and that goes for heterodox Christians as well. If anything, becoming Orthodox really raises the bar of what God expects from you; a higher risk, higher reward situation. A Hindu woman who unknowingly exhibits a Christlike life might end up saved and occupy a better place in eternity than the lousy Orthodox Christian (like me!) But if she had known the fullness of the Christian faith in Orthodoxy she would be equipped with the tools to reach a far greater degree of holiness (and eternal reward.) That is why we must spread the Gospel and the fullness of the Church - to say nothing of those people consumed by sin who would have repented if they had been exposed to Christ. To be without the Church is not hopeless, but to be with it offers far greater hope than you'd have otherwise.
I agree with all the points you've made here. Spot on. I attended a Baptist church and found the judgemental attitude there about what the true way is far stronger than anything I have seen in any Orthodox church. I think such things are definitely very subjective and yoi raised many important points
Did not have time to read all of this, but I want to later. What you said about it being less likely for EO to claim other people are not saved is something that Fr. Trenham mentioned in a homily. He said that the orthodox say they hope to be saved, while they are more likely to believe others are saved rather than themselves. Interesting remark. Hope to read the rest!
I completely understand the whole comfort in protestantism thing. I struggled with it as well. I was born into a non-denominational Protestant church and I struggled for about a year with making the decision of converting to orthodoxy. All my family is Protestant, all my wife's family including my wife is Protestant. All my friends are Protestant. I was even a member of the worship band in my old church so I have an idea of the thought process you are going through. However it came to a point where I felt I had to be honest with myself and my family so I made the decision to convert. While I personally don't agree with the statement that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church, for me it felt like my salvation was on the line simply because I was being dishonest with myself and my family. On January 16th it will be a year since I baptized into the Orthodox Church. My wife and my kids are still struggling with my decision but I personally do not regret it. It feels weird though going to church alone now because my family still attends the Protestant church but I have peace that I'm being honest with myself and everyone. My wife at least recognized that I have improved as a person, a husband, and a father since converting. That has helped her in accepting my decision.
You are on your own walk with God, and I understand that. However, as someone who grew up in a broken household, going to church every sunday without one parent can be very damaging to a child's social-emotional well being. Think of it from a child's perspective. If Sunday, is the day that we're supposed to worship God, but is also when mommy and daddy separate. It changes the view of the sabbath from something holy to something divisive and upsetting. And personally, I would ask you to look into yourself and see how much of your decision was to satisfy your own desires both spiritually and emotionally at the expense of your family's? Again, only God knows your heart, but do not mistake selfish desire for closure for personal salvation.
Becoming orthodox is probably one of the most difficult things any westerner, especially Protestant, will do. It will cost you everything. Your community, your career, your Family, Former friends, “brothers and sister in Christ” and those who have said they love you will reject and persecute you. Calling you an idol worshiper, and Mary worshiper, they no longer understand you and don’t relate to you. You are weird, and doing some other thing now, “we should pray for him, he’s lost” They will tell you what you believe and make you defend it. You mostly likely will feel alone from all this. Orthodoxy in America is not like the comfortable evangelical community in America with a church on every corner and you pick your favorite. In any social setting someone might ask where you go to church and as soon as you say “st….” They have judged you and categorized you as “ReLiGioUS” in other social settings they will make jokes at your expense, because they are right and you are wrong. You will be challenged. It will cost you what you believe to be your ticket to heaven. You go from knowing you are saved, to seeking Gods true forgiveness with every prayer Your pride will be broke from everything you thought you knew. It’s is a humble and meek journey.I know with certainty It was the best decision i made correctly that the Lord led me to. He tells us to leave everything and follow him. We are called to worship according to his will regardless of how we like or feel about it. Contrary to what I always believed as a Protestant, it’s not about me. It is all about the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray God has mercy on me, a sinner.
Your write up reminds me of my journey from being Roman Catholic. I was never confirmed but was told by my mom this is something for me to figure out and to decide but that I will be accepted either way. When I became orthodox and then when my brother wanted to be received into orthodoxy she was very defensive. He was crossing himself in the orthodox manner and was disturbed telling him hes wrong and that we are idol worshipers. She thought my conversion was due to having some strange obsession with Russia. The scriptures talks about what happens when we love Christ. And when I heard that I knew I was home in his Church, in communion with him. My mother eventually came around, She hasn't gone to any church in the last 10 years but said that we are Roman Catholic and we go to a Roman Catholic Church. The people who react this way know little about their own faith and have little affiliation with it and turn their unbelief around to make us look crazy or lost. I would be delighted to speak with you and pray you receive love from your Orthodox brothers and sisters.
I love this comment. I feel the same experience from my protestant family, but they don't talk religion with me at all anymore. They did come to my Orthodox wedding though and respected it. Being that my particular area has such a big Roman Catholic presence (The Roman Bishop being 25 minutes away) I find myself befriending many Catholics and us having a common respect for each other and our traditions.
@@theworldbeforeus1775 This rings so true... I have to remain calm and understand the ignorance my family members have. Unfortunately, they hurl accusations at me way before trying to understand the situation. They also thing I have an obsession with Russia, and maybe it is true, only to the extent that it is the current guardian of the Orthodox faith in the world.
The Orthodox Church is the toughest thing I have ever participated in. I wouldn't trade that for anything. My Mormon relatives hate me. My Southern Baptist relatives scratch their heads and wonder why I didn't become one of them. My wife, half of my kids, and now some of my grandchildren hold this as the true Pearl of Great Price.
My family and I were baptized into the Orthodox Church three years ago. It was a beautiful journey out of western Protestantism. Bless you on your journey 🙏🏻 💕
After 3.5 years of looking into Orthodoxy, my family and i will be chrismated in our local Orthodox church in the fall, God willing. It's a massive shift but it feels like home and we're trusting this leading is of the Holy Spirit. Coming from Assembly of God. Glory to God . Thanks for making these videos and going through all this effort. It has been so very valuable
17:30 in my experience, Orthodoxy doesn't teach that there is no salvation outside the Church. Rather, the Church is where you find the true doctrine being taught and the whole apostolic tradition preserved, but we don't judge the salvation of anyone, not even ourselves. God Himself is the final judge, and we can pray for His mercy upon anyone, but we cannot say whether anyone is saved or not since we don't know their heart as God does. Thief on the cross and whatnot.
I am Orthodox and I really appreciated this! Your point about the way that Orthodoxy doesn't feel "genuine" to a westerner and seems like a modern thing to be able/willing to convert to an eastern Christian tradition at all, that really resonates with me. I've been Orthodox now for many years and it is still a thought that crosses my mind. The idea of "personal preference" is really difficult. It's something, though, that I think is part and parcel with the "conversion" mindset itself, not just Orthodoxy. Anyone who converts from one religion to another is sort of a strange person in that regard since religion is not so much a collection of dogmas and ideas as it is a way of living and the foundation/language of culture itself. So to change from one to another, especially one that is so different from your cultural context, completely throws you off balance in a way. You're treading totally new territory, looking at the world in new ways, and all the while carrying along the history and "baggage" of your previous identity. I think the only way I really manage that is through a narrative about the west that convinces me I can't stay. I need my children and grandchildren to have the best possible shot at maintaining a deep, meaningful relationship with Christ and when I look around at what western culture has become, I'm convinced that can't happen if I don't leave it behind (at least insofar as I can). It's a sad thing, not something I like to dwell on, but it's the truth of where I am and how I landed here. I don't think you quite understand the exclusivity aspects, but I think you will in time if you talk to more Orthodox about that. It's all part and parcel with the ontological soteriology of the church. A lot of the conflict you describe I think is really just a misunderstanding of terms and perhaps a misunderstand of the stakes at play. There are Christians outside of Orthodoxy, but also there aren't, because salvation is ontological and there is only one baptism. Anyway, thank you for this video! I appreciated it!
As an Orthodox convert I appreciate your honesty. Do take your time. Unfortunately, some convert too quickly and you may have seen some of the fruits of that, especially online. I too struggled with many of the same things you did before I finally converted. I also resisted converting for a long time. I hope and wish you the best. Keep on journeying!
Huge respect for your honesty. As a Orthodox Christian growing up in the West, and therefore being influenced by Western Christianity, I understand where you're coming from. I will pray for you that God leads you to the truth. God bless you and your family 🙏🏼
Austin, I am in a very similar place as you. Coming from a similar "low church Evangelical Protestant" background, I actively started exploring the Orthodox church about 5 years ago. I have been very drawn to it, but have the same reservations as you. All this is to say, your channel has been an incredibly helpful resource for me as I navigate these questions. Thank you so much for having the courage to do all of this online with an audience - it must not be easy. Much love and appreciation, brother! God bless.
Austin, I have really enjoyed your videos exploring the historical branches of Christianity. They were helpful to me when I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, and as I moved into the catechumenate. While I admit I had less mental deliberation than you-which I admire, and I really respect the careful thought you've given to the most important aspect of your life-I empathize with your hesitancy when it comes to ecumenism and heterodox Christians. My whole family is Protestant; most of my friends are Protestant; all my ancestors were Protestant. My family has asked me if I think they're not saved, and they're not really reassured when I tell them I don't know if *I'm* even saved, LOL. But here are my unsolicited thoughts on the matter, and I hope at least some of it is edifying and beneficial to you. You know the goal of the Christian's life is theosis: "Blessedness, or, what is the same thing, the kingdom of heaven or of God...but also to receive an influx of the divine, and, as it were, to suffer deification" (St. Theodoros the Great Ascetic). Our whole lives must be oriented to Christ, with the hope of becoming as much like Him as is possible in this life. Our first command is to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength; we are responsible for working out our own salvation with the grace and assistance of Christ. Because we view and know the Church to be the sure deposit of the Faith, with the omnipresent and transcendent grace of God, we know the Church to be a sure vehicle of attaining salvation. This is not to say that all in the Church will be saved (and we cannot know who is or is not saved), but it is truly the Body of Christ, and our faithful participation in His Body is what saves us. We have the means of forgiveness and absolution; we consume the Body and Blood of Christ and participate in His energies; we abide in the company of the saints gone before us. For the heterodox Christian, attaining theosis without the Church is like swimming upstream in a rushing river. You do not have the proper "equipment" or support structure to complete the task at hand. You may be exceedingly dedicated your whole life, and you may make significant progress given your circumstances. But you are ultimately operating without all the tools available to you. Salvation is by no means an easy process, even when one is *in* the Orthodox Church; outside her, it is even more difficult. Says St. Maximus the Confessor, "Created things are not by nature able to accomplish deification, since they cannot grasp God. To bestow a consonant measure of deification on created beings is within the power of divine grace alone." We know, however, that God examines the hearts of every man and desires that all be saved (1 Tim. 2:4), showing mercy to whom He will (Rom. 9:18). He does not "[wish] that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9). St. Peter of Damascus says that "alike before the Law, under the Law, and under grace, there have been many righteous men-men who preferred the knowledge of God and His will to their own thoughts and wishes." In the book of Jeremiah (17:10), God says, "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings." We know God judges us on our works, which are an outpouring of our faithfulness to Him, and the orientation of our hearts to Him. So ecclesiologically, we can say with certainty that the heterodox are not members of the Body of Christ. We cannot, however, make comment on the eternal destination of the heterodox, for we are not God and do not know their hearts, nor His mercies. This is often seen as a cop-out answer, but I think that comes from a (very understandable) desire to be certain of our salvation. Again, though, we are not responsible for the salvation of anyone but ourselves. As St. Theophan the Recluse said, "You ask, will the heterodox be saved…Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins…I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever." It is not our job, nor our right, nor even an option for us to speculate on the salvation of any individual, even ourselves. Our job is simply to love God, love others, and pray for our mutual salvation and unity with Christ. Prayer for another's salvation-Orthodox, heterodox, or non-Christian-is a more fruitful and loving choice than worrying about salvation or arguing who can or can't be saved. This isn't an easy thing to accept-God only knows how much I have agonized over the souls of people I know-but it is our calling as Christians, Orthodox or not.
@Ben De Maria It’s not our place to say who’s to be saved and who’s not. Everyone can be saved even up to the last minute. Remember the thief on the cross. The key word here is repentance.
The official teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is that all who are not inside of it are damned and doomed. '' No salvation outside of the church '' '' If you are not in the ark you will be drowned. '' Of course reality testifies against that, the evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit is manifest and visible. New births, healings, renewals with people who hated Christ becoming born again and changing completely, people delivered from homosexuality and given totally a new heart, these works of the Spirit happen every day and they happen outside of that organization which says that the Spirit only works within its walls. It is only recently that they have started subtely changing their teaching on this, and we can understand that, as the world becomes globalized and more people enter in contact with other denominations where you see just as much faith, virtue, and devotion to Christ, it becomes difficult to explain how everyone else is a hellbound heretic so the discourse slightly changes toward the '' we don't know, we can't really say '' making a small room for rare exceptions when these are not even exceptions but rules. And if the teaching is problematic, the shift in the teaching toward moderation is even more problematic because the Eastern Orthodox church stakes its entire credibility on never changing its teachings and never erring into falsehood, but by changing their line on the destiny of the '' heterodox '' they admit that they can change their teachings and the change itself admits a correction which implies errancy into falsehood. And if they can err on that question, what other question have they erred about ? Suffice it to say that as someone who considered orthodoxy, this makes the title of the '' one true church '' untenable and not credible.
I’m an Orthodox Christian and I appreciate your feedback. It’s respectful and I completely understand how foreign it would seem to you. I often feel like Protestant churches are very foreign to me.
I converted from non denominational to Eastern Catholic. It was extremely challenging for my whole family! Fast forward 5 years, my wife and kids have all been baptized and joined me in the church! Praise God ☦️
Wonderful! I was protestant for 60 years - The many different churches in my small hometown confused me as a child. When God brought me to O. it all became clear to me that He did “establish His church” …. The “other Christians” issue is, for me, totally in His Loving Hands - and I have loads of family & friends in that camp. I just have peace after years of wondering: “why so many churches?” God bless you🙏🏻
I must tell you......I'm not surprised; saw this coming! I came into the Orthodox Church 5 years after drawing closer and closer for 15 years.....The Orthodox Service takes us back closer to the time of Jesus and the Apostles. The spirit is drawing you in! God bless you!
Such a wonderful and vulnerable episode. You are right about the exclusivity of Orthodoxy. It was a stumbling block for me for quite a while after I converted (in 1994). Before that, I was a pastor, missionary, and seminary professor. I was ALSO very comfortable where I was at and ultimately DID suffer social, familial, financial, and several other kinds of temptations and negative consequences when I converted. That said, nothing in my life has been more worthy. I deeply regret my own sins and failures, but never for a moment have I regretted becoming Orthodox. A quick correction... we don't say that ANYONE is "unsaved," since we are all on our journeys TOWARD salvation. I would be so bold as to say that this is as close to being "official" and "universal" as it gets... it is not our job, not our right, not within our purview, to even SPECULATE about another's salvation. The moment the thought would cross our minds about so-and-so not being Orthodox and therefore is not "saved," the Orthodox inclination would be to cross ourselves and say the Jesus prayer... lest we lose our own souls. In fact, we are HOPEFUL and even optimistic about the salvation of our Baptist parents and even our Mormon neighbors, not because those systems are not soul destroying (to varying degrees), but because of the love and mercy of God... and because of His indulgence in answering our unworthy prayers for them. We are LESS confident about our own salvation (Yes, hopeful and trusting, but never presumptuous)... never taking it for granted, always returning to our knees in repentance, fully recognizing the abject sin in our own lives and hearts (yet, blinding ourselves to others' sins). Salvation is a process which culminates at the Great Judgment when our resurrected bodies are glorified and we are welcomed into eternity. Until then, any talk about who is "saved" and who is "not saved" is just silly. At the same time, we are bold in proclaiming what is Orthodox teaching and practice and what is heretical, what is the Church, the Body of Christ, and what is not. To Protestant ears, it might sound like we are condemning individuals to hell, denying the work of God in their lives, etc., but this is NOT the case. As to ecumenism... so much could be said here. It took me quite a while to reject this "practice"/inclination as contrary to the very goals I thought I was furthering through ecumenism, but it eventually clicked. I'd be willing to dialog further on this, but it seems to me that it is more of a conviction that grows with the challenging of preconceptions, definitions, etc., and this through experience with the fruit of the exercise. My only advice at this point would be to pray for wisdom, love everyone, and follow your conscience (which I am convinced you are already doing). You might find that ecumenism isn't exactly what you think and the Orthodox rejection of ecumenism isn't exactly what you perceive it to be, either. I'm a big fan, supporter, and recommender of your channel... and that whether you take the plunge or not. :D
Jeff cavins an ex evangelical pastor convert to RCC. Said we can not replace the true presence of Jesus with better music that makes us “feel good”. Our emotions can and do lie to us. If we base our faith on how we feel then we will be deceived every day
I'm British and feel like I have returned to Orthodoxy. These lands were originally Orthodox before the schism so it feels like a reconnection to my ancient heritage
That's true. There were even English speaking warriors and generals from Britain who acted as the Emperor's bodyguard in Byzantium and alot of them having fled there after the conquest of William the Bastard
@@XDomyX The English Church was considered canonically Orthodox until the Norman conquests.Harold of England is viewed as the Last Orthodox King of England and some even considered him a martyr saint.
@@zaccheusanton9470 Firstly, there was no english church. Like there was no french or german church. There was the Catholic church, or the Church of Rome, which was the patriarchy for the West. It is really funny to read comments from protestants that deny this well known fact. Now protestant converts to orthodoxy push this silly story again, but now that early “english church” was orthodox, whereas before that was protestant. Every serious historian can only laugh at this. You must understand that christianity in England before the 16th century was part of the Catholic church, part of the Patriarchy of Rome with western rites. Period. What we will have in future? When a protestant decides to become a Jehovah witness, he will claim that the early christians in England were like them haha. England must be anything but catholic 🤣
@@XDomyX I meant that the English church was considered canonical . Yes they had a western rite like Western Orthodox (or "Catholic" in the pre-schismatic sense). The Western Church was considered Orthodox before the schism. There is an Orthodox western rite today in terms of liturgics and they have the same beliefs as the rest of the Church. I don't know how Protestantism factors into what I said.
As for those encouraging you to convert to Orthodoxy, especially my fellow Orthodox, pay no attention to the crowd behind the curtain! This is something that you and God will work out. It took me almost 10 years attending Orthodox services before I finally officially entered the church although I was following an Orthodox way of life before. (Or should I say trying to) I do not pray that you convert to an Orthodox or Catholic or any other Western Christian spirituality. I pray that you remain a firmly rooted Christian as you are now. Please continue your work and God bless you and your soon-to-be wife! CHRIST IS IN OUR MIDST! HE IS IN EVERY SHALL BE!
I'm an Orthodox convert from being a Baptist(non-cavinist). I converted early this year during Pascha, after attending and researching for a year. My priest did a great job and continues to do a great job in my opinion of guiding me and helping me make the decision. He is of the opinion that conversion should be very cautious, and we should be careful when making such a huge decision, and it is a huge decision. It is a hard thing to deal with. I felt a comfort here, that I know my tradition has answers to my questions and makes so much sense to me. I believe Christ is here. I hold the opinion that we know where the Holy Spirit is, but we don't know where it isn't. I believe there are Catholics and Protestants with Christ and the Saints in heaven for sure. I do, however, believe Orthodox is the Church and the fulfillment of the Christian faith. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I fully encourage your decision to be very careful when converting to anything. I wish you nothing but the best and I will pray for you. Conversion is not something taken lightly and out Faith is the most important decision in our lives. My family didn't take my conversion particularly well, and it has a subtle tension to it when I go visit them. I have, however, come to respect and understand a lot of faith traditions better. May God be with you.
I live North of Pittsburgh and am thinking about attending services. Can you recommend the churches in Pittsburgh, especially eastern side, to me? Greatly appreciated 🙏
If “real Orthodoxy” isn’t as historically rich, theologically sound, and unapologetically proud of the gospel as it seems online, then I don’t want it.
Thank you Austin for this video! I know it's hard to talk about these things in front of thousands of people yet you do it with great humbleness and honesty.
My pleasure! I look forward to discussing some of this on your channel soon! I find I express myself better in dialogues, so it's likely that if people enjoyed this, they'll really enjoy whatever goes on your channel
@@GospelSimplicity looking forward to our discussion too! Thank you for your kind words:) I am surprised if anyone finds something valuable coming from a Greek but who knows, God can use a donkey if he wants to
As an Orthodox Christian, I just want to say that I can totally see how you would experience a sense of exclusivity in Orthodoxy. Many close members of my family are Protestant and my parents grew up in Protestant missionary families before converting to Orthodoxy, so the feeling of that sentiment hits close to home for me. However I think that for whatever reason, there seems to be a disproportionate number of "online" Orthodox Christians who ardently (and unfortunately) reflect this sentiment along with a firm anti-ecumenical stance that doesn't at all reflect my own experience as an Orthodox Christian having moved multiple times to different states and been a part of a number of different communities. Ecumenism is certainly a hot topic in the Church and there are some very strong opinions on it on BOTH sides of the spectrum. But I think these opinions fall within the realm of theologoumenon and not an official stance of the Church. If anything, we've seen some significant ecumenical events between multiple patriarchs of the church and the Pope -- and I do appreciate that the Church allows for more wiggle room to figure these kinds of things out. There is definitely a strong feeling that the West has strayed from the Church of the Fathers that was whole for so long, and that we don't want to compromise in the wrong ways, but we also pray for "the unity of the faith" at almost every service. Also in terms of salvation not existing outside the Orthodox Church, I don't think this is a widely held belief either. I think salvation and theosis sometimes get mixed up in this case, when the two aren't the same thing (if everyone had to reach theosis in their lifetime to be saved, we'd all be in a lot of trouble hahah). There is certainly the commonly held view that one must be inside the Church to have the possibility of fully cleansing their nous and heart, and ultimately attaining theosis, but this isn't the same as salvation. The number of Orthodox Christians we recognize have reached theosis in this life (aka the Saints) is such a small fraction of the rest of us who more often than not spend our whole lives in that first phase of cleansing our nous. In terms of salvation itself, I don't think we as a church tend to concern ourselves as much with whether or not those around us are saved, because we see salvation as a lifelong process with no guarantees for ourselves despite the fact that we are a part of the Orthodox Church. We just hope that when we see Christ, that we will experience His love as paradise and not as hell -- and we can't nor shouldn't ever make claims for what this experience will be like for others (with the exception of the Saints).
Ecuminism is very heretical and demonic, every Eastern orthodox saint and church father was against ecuminism. Ecuminism goes against what our Early church taught as well. It is essentially a precursor to the Antichrist. It is the type of worldly religion the Antichrist will eventually bring about whenever the End times start (look up the videos by Father Spyridon Bailey/Fr. Peter Heers and quotes from Orthodox saints regarding this topic). The only way a unity between Rome/other Christian denominations and the Eastern orthodox can begin is if the RCC and protestants get rid of all their heretical dogma that deviates from Orthodox doctrine/teachings (catholic divine simplicity, Catholic change to the fililoque, papal infallibility,etc). Ecuminism will just make a watered down, lukewarm, worldy and heretical chrsitianity that deviates from the early church and what was passed down from the first apostles. Also when you talked about recent unity between the two denominations, you have to know that ecumenical patriarch Bartholemew is subverting Orthodoxy, he wants to essentially be the pope of the East, and what he is doing goes against orthodox teachings. Also the Eastern orthodox church is the only way to achieve salvation, and you can't achieve salvation through any of the other Christian denominations.
How can one outside the EO Church get saved, if it is not participating to the sacraments of the EO Church, which are to be given only through the EO priests, respectively through apostolic succession found only in the EO Church ?
@Kiwi Connoisseur Well, I agree! But it seems to me that the claims of exclusivity to God's Grace are expressed in doctrines like those mentioned in my questions.
Hello, brother. I don’t think there is a single Saint in the Orthodox Church that stood up for ecumenism; meanwhile, one could quote multiple saints that opposed it sternly (and Austin is probably aware of that already by this). While I do hold that a pan-orthodox synod should be held about the matter in order for an universal condemnation to be issued, I do not think this matter is that much of a theolegumenon at all. Certainly there is some “wiggle room” but I believe it is not as wide as you may be trying to express. About salvation outside the Church, it is pretty clear that one must be united to the Church in order to be saved. St. Cyprian affirmed it, and I don’t think a single church father ever hinted suggesting otherwise. This doesn’t mean all non-orthodox are damned though.
@Kiwi Connoisseur I grew up in an eastern orthodox majority country and got the opposite of what you are saying from EO. Actually, I am surprised to hear your position and I am wondering if what people get in the west is more like a "missionary" form of eastern orthodoxy, where these claims of supremacy over God's Grace are kind of downplayed. The way it was explained to me even by practicing orthodox and even priests, these EO doctrines like apostolic succession, sacraments, priesthood, doctrine about Church are inherently exclusivist. In the EO paradigm, the way a non-orthodox can come to salvation outside of the EO Church is rather the exception from the Gospel, not the rule.
I was baptized into the Orthodox Church (Antiochian) over a year ago. This video is presented with so much authenticity and intelligence. And you have a very kind and gentle nature which is refreshing, especially with the plethora of arguments and “Ortho-Bros” on TH-cam. We welcome our Protestant friends and families to “come and see” at anytime. God Bless You, brother!
The thing about conversion to Orthodoxy that I’ve noticed is this: No one comes banging on your door or Red/Blue Pill you into an existential crisis of decision to convert. Normally people, like Moses, happens upon the mystery of a burning bush as it were, and inquire as to “what is this?” Then the journey begins. And oft they find that, “This is the Pearl of Great Price.” True Evangelism is attraction through truth & light.
For Austin and anyone interested: yesterday Kabane released a discussion in two parts with Orthodox philosopher, theologian, and apologist Perry Robinson of Energetic Procession. Perry is a brilliant exponent of the Orthodox faith- and of intellectually responsible habits in general. Many of a protestant questions and hesitations about Orthodoxy are answered so beautifully by an ex-protestant who after years of wandering in various protestant branches finally found Holy Orthodoxy...It will be very helpful I think,even for Orthodox fellows ...so many precious matters discussed regarding the process of converting to Orthodoxy and what problems one has to face...First part on Becoming Orthodox, Christology, and Personhood second part on Monergism, Apostolic Succession, and Staying Orthodox.. P.S: in 42:20 of the first part he gives some very good advice about how to deal with things you do not like in the church... I think you must have Perry Robinson in your channel too,Austin
Dear Austin, I have been following your channel for some time and I really appreciate the effort and commitment you have towards your work, it is truly admirable! Regarding the video, I will allow myself to share certain comments from my position as a converted Orthodox Christian since 15 years ago. In the Church there are several branches of study, for example, threre is the Theology, Patristics, Eschatology, Hymnography, etc., and one of them is the Ecclesiology, which is the understanding of what the Church is, although the proclamation that the Orthodox Church is The Church founded by Christ and sown by the Apostles is bold, she as a set of beliefs and traditions is nothing more than the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, it is a revelation given to us by God and that we have as a duty to take care of it to pass it intact to the next generation, an act that sums up our mission on earth; But even if ecclesiologically we understand the Orthodox Church as the only Church, that does not mean that all Orthodox are saved or that we have the monopoly of salvation, since salvation comes from God Who sees through our hearts and has known us since He created us, no sin we commit is greater than God's mercy and only He knows our final destiny because He knows us and loves us, I would dare to say that even we as Orthodox have a greater responsibility since on the day of the judgment God will question us based on what we knew and did not do, because God is a Just Judge Who will not judge a good Buddhist with the same harshness as an evil and hyoccritical Orthodox Christian. I am not going to go depth about your personal decisions of possible conversions or not, since it is a decision solely yours and which must be respected, I will only mention that our hereditary background is not an impediment to approach Orthodoxy, it tells you someone from the West like you and a Latino in a third world country without a true presence of the Orthodox Church. Everything can be done if that is your desire and the Will of the Lord. Likewise there is a reason why we oppose ecumenism and it goes from hand in hand with our Ecclesiology, we can get along well with everyone, but neither do I see ourselves discarding unique aspects of the Church and legacies from apostolic times for being "well" with everyone, not to mention the liturgical problems that this would propose, any change It will be not done by our decision since the Church belongs to God, and she does not belong to us. We are servants by God's mercy and not by our own merit, we are the simple guests at the Wedding, not the King Who celebrates the wedding of His Son, and with respect to give up everything remember Luke 14, 25-33, with nothing more to add I say goodbye not without first congratulating you again for your great work, keep going!
The intercession of the saints did not click for me until I understood the eschatological dimension of the Church, in other words, "what is the Kingdom of God?". I realize you have not touched upon this "third rail" of theology, but, it might be of help to review: 1. All of the Apostolic Churches (those whose origins are pre-reformation) hold to the intercession of the saints. 2. All of the Apostolic Churches hold to Realized Millenialism in thier eschatology (called "Amillenialism" by 'low church' Protestants, who mostly hold pre-millenial views, though many 'high church' Protestants still mostly adhere to Realized Millenialism). 3. Realized Millenialism states that (1) Jesus is presently and at this very moment reigning from Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, (2) that before the ascension, all authority in Heaven and on Earth had already been given to Christ, and that (3) There is no 'literal, physical specific 1,000 years of rule with Christ upon his return", for "His Kingdom shall have no end", in other words, that Kingdom is now, it has been "realized". 4. Orthodoxy (and from what I understand, all the Apostolic churches) hold that the dead in Christ know what is happening on earth. In Revelation 6:9-11, they clamour impatiently for judgment to be poured out on their oppressors. 5. The concept of "soul sleep", temporary abeyance, or "limbo" for the dead in Christ is not found in Orthodox thought. 6. Christ states "...have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 7. As revealed in the transfiguration, although Moses had died and Elijah had been taken up to heaven centuries before, they now live in the presence of God, and that the same return to life applies to all who have faith in Christ. Moses and Elijah were and are alive - so much so that the Apostles asked if they could build Moses and Elijah tents to stay in for the night. 8. Those in heaven are “like the angels,” Christ says. Those in heaven surround us as a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb. 12:1). 9. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man shows concern for his family on earth, even though he is dead. If a person such as the rich man has such concern for those still alive after being dead, are those who have passed away in Christ also able to be concerned for the living. Can they do anything about their concerns? Are we to believe that those that are dead in Christ denied or silent? 10. The Kingdom of God is available to us right now, if we choose to access it. Those that are dead in Christ are already a part of the Kingdom of God that will come down with Christ at the end of the age. It is one Kingdom; we are connected to those that are dead in Christ through Christ himself. "Too often modern Christians forget that the Church is not just an institution, but the Kingdom of God that is here but is still to come. The Church is described as the Bride of Christ. We are betrothed to Christ. The second coming is the wedding day and the final consummation. Therefore, we live this present life in two dimensions: as saved and yet hoping for salvation; as betrothed to Christ and yet in anticipation and anxiety for the consummation of the marriage; as joyful and yet penitent; as having everything and yet possessing nothing; as living in this world and yet “having here no continuing city”; as in the world yet not of the world; as being members of Christ’s Church, receiving the new life of baptism and eternal life in the Eucharist; and yet as striving to be made worthy of the Kingdom to come. This double character of Christian life is absolutely essential" - Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou
I grew up in a rather cultural Orthodox household and considered giving up on the Tradition I happened to be born into, if it should turn out to be a less than optimal representation of Truth. I don't know if this radical approach was instinctive or engrained into my genetical code by the more pious among my ancestors. Maybe it was God Himself challenging my young conscience to test all spirits, but in any case I was greatly relieved after years of research to have discovered nothing even remotely comparable to Orthodoxy. I can only imagine the tremendous loss and mourning of having to admit the fullness of Truth is not in that place which has been most near and dear to your heart for so long, and I deeply admire the bravery it takes to make that step. I think I can also relate to your sentiment that it's not fair to dismiss so many good and nice people outside the Church, and that isn't necessary, at all. There are for sure many Protestants and Roman-Catholics who make much better Christians than me, but their good conduct can't make up for false or incomplete doctrine, as much as my misconduct doesn't make Orthodoxy any less valid. There are also Buddhists and Muslims who are humble, meek and loving, but it's none of our business to judge the state of their souls. God is just and merciful towards all, and He will ask of each according to how much was given to them. You seem to be a very careful and well-reflected person, much more than me when I was younger. I have almost had adopted a new age mindset before I seriously studied and consciously embraced Orthodoxy, because I was very focused on what is common good between all traditions. The critical turning point came when I started focusing on the differences, on what makes each and every communion special, unique and irreplaceable.
I was raised RC and converted to EO. I still lose sleep questioning things and am faced with these existential crisis. You are not alone. Even though I am overjoyed that you are researching and looking for the ancient Church, all things must start with a love of Christ, which any outsider should be able to see shine through your words and actions. You are a light, no matter what tradition you may follow. Thank you for all of what you do. May Lord truly have Mercy. 🙏🏻
Ecumenism is the Great Commission? That's not my understanding. Did Paul correct anyone's theology or did he just say "come on in, it will be alright"? Would JW's, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals be included in the ecumenism you speak of? Unitarians? Where is the line? There is only 1 Gospel. Many gospels is not one Gospel. You must know this. With love.
Thank you for sharing. It's been great to follow your journey ever since your "Protestant visits a Catholic Church" video came up as a recommendation on my feed over a year ago. Keep studying and keep reading, there's no rush to make a decision today. It took three and a half years to finally come to Orthodoxy. The journey is hard, but you'll find your way after enough struggle, Austin! Everyone who's walked a similar path as you has struggled with Mary and the saints but when/if that ever finally clicks its a satisfying feeling. Keep up the great work and the great content.
Speaking of faithful Christians outside of the Orthodox Church, our priest says, "We know where the Church is, we don't know where it isn't." Many of us who converted know bone-deep that Christ has always been with us, and that He shines so brightly in those who love Him, whichever faith tradition they happen to belong to.
Thank you for sharing all of this. Your hesitations match my own. I’m continuing to get to know Orthodoxy, and your interviews and insights have been very encouraging.
I share the same hesitations. I’m trying to learn and understand but I struggle with many of the same things he mentions and also the prayer to saints through icons, and even the whole “not knowing if you’re saved” makes no sense as the NT seems clear, like in John, that we can know we are saved. But I love orthodoxy. I love the vibe, the art, the devotion, the ancient practices, the emphasis on having a prayer life, the experiential over head knowledge thing, and also how important it is to actually pick up your cross and follow Christ. I so badly want to convert but I can’t do it honestly while I have so many issues, I would just be a hypocrite and I can’t do that.
@@DavidMartinez-vx7zb I agree with you David. About all the Orthodox Christians I talk with seem to scratch John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9 making it seem as if it is works and faith. Also, I find that the claim that God only works in a single church and by that I mean claiming that He only works in the Orthodox Church strikes me a little rough. I mean it’s probably the most clear thing that God works in more than jsut one church - more than just orthodoxy and more than just protestantism
Thank you for your videos! I admire and am drawn to Orthodoxy for the very same reasons, and the same hesitations keep me from leaving my comfortable Protestantism... Honestly, mostly the impact it would have on my family (I am married with young children and that makes it feel like just a whole other kind of decision .) but I have felt drawn to the Orthodox Church for many years now. Your interviews with Orthodox theologians have helped clarify some theological questions and the interview w FMG on the Jesus Prayer has been truly transformative. That prayer has not only impacted my life but I am seeing the ripple effects in my husband’s and children‘a lives as well. Christ be with you, brother!
I love your opinions. I am Greek orthodox and I love it. I also love visiting other Christian churches as well. I like to learn all peoples ways that they worship and praise God. I love it. I feel the holy spirit in all Christian churches that truly worship him
Thank you Austin, for your honesty! As an Orthodox Christian myself - I must say, Orthodox Christians should NOT be saying who is saved and who isn't. That decision is for God! Even Saint Paul himself did not claim to be saved. I don't know that there is really an 'official' stance on Christians outside of the Church, aside from the fact that we can't receive sacraments like the Eucharist together - simply because we don't know if we believe the same thing, and it would be dangerous for the one outside of the Church to come on contact with God in this manner. It also means that one might be received differently if they converted, depending on their background - baptism and chrismation, or just chrismation, and occasionally just confession. Anyway PLEASE keep doing what you are doing. You go where you find Christ - He is what it's all about. I'd have to profess that the fulness of the Christian faith was best preserved in the Orthodox Church - but that does not mean that anyone outside of the Church isn't Christian. You might find people who say that, but you can find people who say a lot of things! Anyway, you need to go where God puts you, because you are clearly a blessing to many of us. 🙏
If you haven’t yet explored Fr. Georges Florovsky, I think you would appreciate his writings and work. He was a magnificent Orthodox theologian whose Orthodoxy and traditionalism was beyond reproach, who was also very involved with the WCC.
I was chrismated 5 years ago into the Greek Orthodox Church. It has been the most blessed event that I have done in my life. I was raised Missouri synod Lutheran and that was very important to me as well as my family who had Catholic roots but after a tragic family event I went looking for something more I needed something more and I found it in the Orthodox Church. My husband is also a catacuman now and praying for when he can be fully part of our church family.
Austin, if you truly have a deep interest in Orthodoxy and if you feel that you are being drawn towards the Church in any way, you should speak with a local priest about the issues you are having. He may be able to walk you through these issues pastorally, and you may might find great comfort in his counsel. it is a journey for all new converts and the process is different for each one of us, but I think many of us have experienced the things you are describing in one way or another. A good priest would definitely be able to help you through these issues and give you guidance on how to approach the struggles you are having and the current situations in your personal life.
You are an honest young man. I was in a similar place as you as a senior in college on my way to seminary. I'm glad I didn't go through this publicly like you. I took a sociology of religion class that focused on conversion and I was very weary of converting fast or needlessly. So I appreciate your nuanced first answer that has that same concern. As for the rest. 1. Christ communed with the saints just as they did in maccabees. He talked to Moses and Elijah and said he knew Abraham. 2. Dr Ortland is incorrect. Please explore the ecumenical councils and their response to receiving converts from other denominations. Also, the willingness of the saints to die side by side with the non Orthodox. 3. The type of ecumenism that the Orthodox are weary of is the kind that seems to have taken hold. A brushing away of distinctives has lead to a thining of theological depth. Unity at the expense of truth is not helpful. However we are clearly involved in the ecumenical movement. I know for a fact that as a Methodist I knew the same Christ I know now as an Orthodox Priest. But the truth of the Church and the sacraments became too important. I came to a place where I wanted the depth of worship and had to convert. Much love and prayers for you my dear brother in Christ.
Would you mind elaborating on the ecumenical councils and non-orthodox Christians? Are protestant/catholic converts treated as new Christians (baptized)? Or are they just Chrismated (what is Chrismation)?
@@etheretherether the Ecumenical Councils give different lists for who needs to be Baptized and who doesn't in order to join the Church. Council to council these lists differ. This is because the denominations in question changed over time. Chrismation is the Eastern equivalent of confirmation. In modern times different Orthodox Churches apply these canons in different ways. Some Baptize almost everyone, others Baptize only those who come from non Trinitarian backgrounds. It is however becoming more difficult to be assured that a person comes from a Trinitarian background. Even if they come from denominations that previously would have been a sure thing. So if someone comes from somewhere like the Episcopal Church or Evangelical Lutherans we would not have baptized them 50 years ago. Now it is a sure thing that they probably need to be baptized. Unless they are from the older generation.
I'm not orthodox, but a church community here in Denmark is working side by side with an oriental orthodox monastery in Egypt, on several projects, and there's a strong bond and love between these respected communities.
Austin, it is awesome getting to see you on the journey brother! I still encourage you to talk with more of us eastern Catholics and go to a liturgy at some point!
Thank you for recognising the mental toll it takes when you are investigating and learning about orthodoxy. It’s definitely caused a lot of anxiety and fear as I learn more, which is scary and makes me feel guilty.
@@DaFooling that's right... Because as st. Paisios the Athonite used to say the anxiety and fear especially the inexplicable fear without any apparent reason is a sign of bad influence by evil spirit that tries to make us lose our courage and faith.. That's why this is when we must pray the Jesus prayer fervently at that time more than ever in order to decline the bad influence..
What is foreign to people from other Christian traditions is this… Orthodoxy is not in your head! You don’t approach the Faith by reading and studying everything you can get your hands on! Take your time! Take 5-10 years! No rush! What you need to know is already there in the services of the Church! Theology is built in and we learn by participation. Isn’t that brilliant! The daily rhythm of the Church Calendar involves your entire person without fear and anxiety.
I'm Orthodox and I really appreciate your videos. Regarding the point about whether someone who is non-Orthodox is actually a Christian, I agree that there are hard-liners in our Church. However, it is Evangelical Protestants in the US who would have us believe that Catholics are different than Christians. I have found that to be much more prevalent (to the point that some Catholics believe it).
Hey Austin! You should consider doing an interview with an Orthodox about Mary. I noticed you had one with Catholic experts, so maybe doing one with Orthodox would be fruitful as well?
I love that you discovered the exclusivity of Orthodoxy ecclesia. I think you're hung up on normalizing the term salvation between the sects. Since Orthodox believe theosis is salvation (and that's much more than "accept Jesus into your heart"), then it makes sense for you to see faithful heterodox and for Orthodox to claim them to not acquire theosis (salvation). Different soteriology means different targets.
Yea. Salvation as a process (Theosis) vs salvation as an event ("being saved"). This is the key difference between Orthodox and Protestant. Unfortunately, I still see Protestants like Gospel Simplicity, even after multiple interviews with Orthodox leaders, not understand this distinction. Either, for them, they can't comprehend Christianity without the "asking Jesus into your heart" part or Orthodox Christians are doing a terrible job at explaining what Orthodoxy means. Perhaps it's a bit of both.
Thanks for homest and thoughtful video! I remember an American girl who visited our Orthodox parish in St Petersburg, during her studies, and her final words "my protestant church at home now seems to me more like Bible study club. Only here I have seen the Church as the place where I can actually talk to God".
Austin, I strongly relate to what you said about feeling overwhelmed by the different denominations. I also really resonate with your calling to church unity. I’ve been Christian for 4 years and still have not taken to a denomination. In the beginning this bothered me so much because I wanted to find a church home and community that I felt I belonged in and aligned with my values, but over the years my thoughts about this have changed. I think there is so much beauty and GRACE in being non-denominational, because it means that you recognize the good in every denomination. You see the spirit of God in every church movement and every faithful Christian instead of “just one true denomination”. As stressful as this can be, I think that it is a beautiful thing. I used to think God was keeping me from finding a denomination as a way to test my faith through trial, but now, I think he’s kept me from finding a denomination so that I crave unity while still valuing the differences in every Christian circle. I do believe that there is Truth, and most likely one denomination that is closest to it, but I don’t feel like it’s our job to find that church and turn our backs to all the others. Being able to recognize the good within the global church is a BLESSING and a strength that not everyone has! I love that you’re in the same boat as me, and I hope you can see it as a blessing rather than a test/trial!
Very good video. If still examining Orthodoxy, I would recommend talking with Kabane (Seraphim Hamilton), his exegetical work on intercession of the Saints and finding the Orthodox structure in the New and Old Testament. Also, you dont have to be Eastern to be Orthodox ;) I myself am part of the Antiochian Western Rite Vicatiate
Have you heard of, or had the opportunity to visit Archangel Michael Orthodox Church in Burbank, Illinois? It is about a half hour away from you. It is an english speaking parish. I wonder how your impression of Orthodoxy might be colored by visiting an english speaking parish, if at all (I assume this parish is mostly converts or second and third generation cradle Orthodox, with little tie to the "motherland". I've never been myself, only guessing here). I mention this because I have met Protestants who acknowledge the theology of Orthodoxy as correct, but are reticent to convert based on cultural or sociological reasons. I am not saying that this is the case with you at all - nothing you have said or done would give one that impression. It does make me wonder, however, how much of an impact the "foreigness" of Orthodoxy in America is an impediment (perhaps even subconsciously) to those who are taking a more academic approach to inquiry. After all, to a degree, it is human nature to say "I'm not (insert ethnicity), I don't really belong there" and to stick to what we are comfortable with. The inverse can also be said for those taking perhaps less of an academic approach - the initial allure of the ancient sights, sounds and smells of Orthodoxy have certainly drawn in many protestant converts.
Christ the Savior on LaSalle, which Austin visited, is OCA as well and should be mostly English. I definitely understand the reticence of converts coming to the Greek Orthodox Church. In less than 20 years, I suspect that it will be all English and these distinctions will just be ethnic for historical purposes. Indeed, there are Greek Orthodox parishes that at least have the priest do everything in English.
Great reply. The concern I had with the foreignness objection is just that, well, yeah, maybe your entire society and culture is messed up, and you need to fundamentally rewire your way of life? The better way of life may seem foreign
@@pamarks Great point! "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2:20) This remnds me of a great quote above the entrance to one of the monasteries (St. Paul's) on Mount Athos that reads "If you die before you die, you won't die when you die". The book to the Hebrews has much to say about this as well: "These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth...But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city" [That city being the descent of the New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation] (Hebrews 11:11,16) For here we have no continuing city, but seek the one to come" (Hebrews 13:14)
Thank you for those incredible insights into Orthodoxy. I am in the throes of contemplation and prayer right now in regards to this. I was Seventh Day Adventist for 47 years (my husband still is) left and spent 6 years looking for the "right" Protestant church, left those and became Catholic 9 years ago. I am a searcher and I love my Lord, I only want to do what is pleasing to Him. Been looking into Orthodoxy for about a month through TH-cam, websites, books and my husband and I met with an Orthodox Priest, Your video resonated with my own thoughts and brought up points I hadn't considered. My husband has been a sincere Christian all his life and has been very patient with my struggles, even somewhat supporting where I am today (he could not do that with Catholicism).
Fr. Seraphim of Rogue River, Oregon, a former Protestant pastor, gave me the shove I needed to finally become Orthodox about 12 years after our meeting. Thank You, Father.
I, as a Catholic, have great respect for my Orthodox brothers and sisters and their Church Fathers. Of course we have our differences but we are from the same root and we are one in Christ.
Halfway isn’t enough for my brothers and sisters in Christ; I want the fullest of the faith for them! Out of charity, I pray for full conversion to the One Holy Apostolic Faith found in the Catholic Church. ✝️🙏
@@traditionalgirl3943 How so? Catholics declared Pope as head of the church while original Christians, orthodox kept its theology, dogmatics as it was back than and di not change anything. Go learn history and then brag about who is deceieved
I loved this. I converted to Orthodoxy about a year ago, and shared many of the same concerns as you. Especially since I am a Western person, with a western mindset, etc. It was hard. Stop listening to the hyperdox online. The online Orthobro LARPers are super unhelpful, and (as I'm sure you know) aren't a good representation of the faith. Sometimes Orthodoxy has a tendency to attract hyperzealous converts.
A couple of things freaked me out when I was looking into Orthodoxy. One was learning how in places in Europe and the Middle East how the Orthodox leader forbid the Christians in their congregations from giving copies of the Bible to unbelievers. And to go into membership a person has to renounce the Protestant Reformation, and how this leads the Orthodox to distance themselves from fellowship with other Christians, and it creates a posture of making other Christians come crawling in order to share fellowship and ideas with them. I believer that such sectarianism is demonic and is contrary to the spirit of Jesus Christ. I'm also no into such a high view of Mary. While I do recognize her significance in her role in the Kingdom, I will not pray to her and revere her as highly as the Orthodox and Roman Catholics do. I find no biblical support for these positions.
This is a great video. I love that you share the anxieties and struggles and biases we encounter when we contemplate conversion from one denomination/church to another. I felt the same way simply moving from being a Dispensational Evangelical to Lutheranism. Even though they are both protestant the issues surrounding confession and baptismal regeneration and non premillennial eschatology made for some very uncomfortable conversations and circumstances in my social and family life. I can imagine how much more of a struggle it could be for those moving between protestant and non protestant churches. Great video.
There are many thoughts and responses that come to mind after listening, but I will keep it to this. After years of wandering in the Protestant world, including being raised as a Protestant and earning a BS in biblical studies, it was and still is TOTALLY worth having my world turned up side down forsaking all else (not that my life and faith comes anywhere close to biblical followers of Jesus) to accept the One True Church and practice the original Christian faith. "Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door shall be opened unto you, SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND." "The way is narrow and few there be that find it." Godspeed to you on your journey.
I'm an Orthodox catechumen currently, I made the decision because I feel like it has many spiritual elements western churches lack. But that said, I still have a lot of respect and admiration for the Roman church. God bless ☦️
Hi, Austin! I'm a little late to watch this video, but I'm so glad I did. I relate to you a lot and appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. I'm an Orthodox Christian, born into the Orthodox Church. I went through a time of believing so strongly in Protestant beliefs. My mom was worried about me, which made me think more deeply about what I believe. I had a bit of an existential/faith crisis, not being sure whether to stick with Protestantism or go back to Orthodoxy. It took time, prayer, and lots of research. Eventually, I embraced Orthodoxy more than ever before. Glory to God. I struggled with various topics, including the same specific topic about the Theotokos saving us like you mentioned in this video. It took time for me to understand as well as many other topics. May God bless you and guide you in your journey!
Thank you Austin @GospelSimplicity. Really appreciate your openess. Ive watched many of your videos. I am (Greek) Orthodox and been on a journey reconnecting to Jesus over the past few years and particlularly the past 6 months including looking at Protestantism and Catholicism and why we dont breathe (holy spirit) together as one church. I hear you regarding your challenges. Ive been to Megachurch experiences in Melbourne, understood their meaning (know their head pastor) but felt something was missing with 6000 people there. Felt like a Tony Robbins experience (Im sure now it inspired him on how he conducts his seminars). Just being honest. In my lengthy conversations with him, I cannot remove the fact I understand the (power) of the Greek language and there is a way to think (cultural?) and words have very deep meanings which I do not see in (English) translations. I think this is major factor in the schism between East and West. One of the keys I see to move forward as one breathing experience (East Lung (Orthodox), West Lung (Catholic), and Diaphragm (Protestant)) is to find a healthy neutral zone for all Christians to understand how Greek was used the first 300 - 400 years for putting together the New Testament (Gospels +), and the multiple ecumenical councils (in greek) and Church Fathers (Greek and Latin) and seek the common ground that be applied in today. Yes going to a Orthodox Church, as an enthusiastic christian can be met by lack of warm feeling, unlike the feeling of going to Charismatic church, although different, I found very warm and inviting (yet something was missing). May I say, the richness that is in Orthodoxy I find deep. Very deep.
In no particular order, as I recall from memory: 1. It began in the east, so that we now "get it from the east" in its most pure form makes a lot, a lot of sense. 2. Shopping for a church. That's not new, and it has little to do with orthodoxy in specific. If you say you yourself feel like that, I get it though, it speaks of how earnest you are. 3. It makes a lot of sense to say "we are the only true church" if one A) believes that and B) has compelling reasons to do so. 4. "Salvation only here" or "dialogue is meaningless". As you've said, you know people that don't believe in that either, I don't believe in that, I know people that don't believe in that. This is not integral to the church, so I don't think its worth mentioning (but that might be my bias talking!).
Have you come across the book The Ethics of Beauty? I have seen you mention counseling and therapy before and this book touches on this subject from an orthodox perspective. Since you were grateful for orthodox spirituality, it would be interesting to see how you react to "orthodox soul healing' and spiritual guidance. I think, even as a Protestant, that orthodoxy will have an impact on therapy since it seems therapy itself is moving in a soul healing direction at the moment. It's definitely one thing that I appreciate as I look into Orthodoxy, as they say the church is a hospital. Take care!
When I was young, it was often said "all true Christians are Orthodox Christians -- even if they don't know it". We still say this! Love, peace, and joy in our God!
Nicely worded thoughts, candid, not coarse. Many a convert can sympathize. Many a convert also wishes he or she had converted years earlier but recognizes you're not ready till you're ready. Sometime the big picture that really precipitates the conversion is elusive. If anyone has a question about Orthodoxy, youtube channel Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church, Rochester NY has a live stream most Thursdays
Austin, thank you for this series and I hope you continue. I’m a cradle Orthodox and your interviews have helped me understand with my head what I always understood with my heart. The exclusivity point you raised is interesting and would seemingly cut against Fr. Andrew’s discussion a few weeks ago. On the one hand, I get the demarcation of you are either in communion or you are not. But I don’t think we can presume a relationship between communal relationship and salvation. Orthodox may have opinions, but we don’t know who will be saved and who will not be saved. We don’t (or shouldn’t) have the audacity to think we have the mental capacity to know such things. And I don’t think the Orthodox are as concerned about that judgement for themselves as they are about giving proper glory to God.
First, a wonderful video. A tempered and open one, filled with meekness and peace. Some thoughts after reflecting on this video. As I am sure many already know, "Orthodox" simply means "Right belief". Orthodoxy is thus inherently (to a degree) non-ecumencial. Orthodoxy's views on the Incarnation & Christology are certainly non-negotiables. Deviating from the Orthodox beliefs on these items is what we believe leads to a whole host of heresies (many that were defeated in the early church found new life after the reformation, such as monoenergism). Focusing on Christology is very important. Indeed it is the correct place to start with Theology. This 'Ordo Theologae' is a very Orthodox view. I hope this helps one connect the dots to see why there is such a traditional emphasis on staying steadfast with Christological dogma in order to maintain the "right belief". "Some come to me and say, “All of us who believe in Christ should create one religion.” Now what you’re telling me is to take gold and copper - gold of so much quality - which they [the Saints and Fathers] took so much trouble to purify, and then gather them and melt them into one mass. Is it right to mix them together again? So much struggle was waged to distill the dogma". - St. Paisios A Christian has to attend a Church, it is not optional. What to do? Shall we play it safe and attend a church that may be Christologically heterodox, or may be silent on such matters, or may be accepting of all views? But is this actually "playing it safe"? In doing so, is this not the active participation and acceptance (even if only at the local level) of the suggestion to St. Paisios to "form a church for all who believe in Christ into one religion"? "O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you." (1 Timothy 6:20)
The Jesus Prayer is dangerous - it's how the Orthodox get you. I started praying the Jesus prayer during a particularly difficult time in my life, and in fact it was the only prayer that I could bring myself to pray. Needless to say, a few years later I became Orthodox. Be careful what you pray for because God just might grant it. Also, your taste in TF Torrance is much appreciated. "Incarnation" changed my life. Torrance is a gateway drug into Orthodox thought because he is highly conversant with Patristic thought.
I was a protestant for a long time, and then had a 5 yr out of church experince of I would call, being in a spritural wilderness. Almost an atheist, even saying I was at one point. But mostly mad at God for not exisiting. (if that makes sense) But really just lost because of all the denominations, not being able to put my finger on something. I had a friend, who went I feel out and away from the church who became Orthodox. For the last 5 yrs, he'd cuasually talk about Orthodoxy. But never pushed it really. Something began to change in my life right around 2019 at the end of the year that started to get me engaged with thinking about God again and Christianity. And when Covid happened and the lock downs started, I really started exploring Orthodoxy. I had a lot of the same hesitations yoou mention in your video. And grappling with certain things. Especially as a protestant, one thing I had to do was stop comparing it, to what I thought I knew of Catholics. Which what I knew was basically notta dang thing. Anyhow, my wife, my three children and myself were baptized into the Orthodox church in July of this year. I never realy would have thought I'd ended up here. But here we are. The spiritual life has had the biggest impact on us. And really just the community. Anyways, great videos. Keep making them.
Six year journey from charismatic, American evangelical, Protestant to Antiochian Orthodox. Many of the parishioners I’m in community with are converts. One of the parish priests is a convert. The saints and the Theotokos were areas that I had to wrap my head around, but the Holy Spirit truly revealed these to me. Like you said, do I have to forsake all my comfortable thoughts and ideas (apologies if that wasn’t the right thought), after the Holy Spirit revealed these things to me, I took the plunge. I see it. I work in ministry where most are of the Protestant faith. Christ is the center of the Orthodox faith and that is where I stay working those I do. I do believe the “non-orthodox Christians” are saved out of the sincerity of their heart in their confession. I converted on Holy Saturday of this year. I’m so happy that I did.
Christ says that you must be ready to abandon country, friends and even your family for Him. Austin says he can't be Orthodox because it's "foreign;" because it's too "exclusive;" because it isn't fair that others didn't have an opportunity to be Orthodox. Well Austin, you have an opportunity to be Orthodox. The only thing that matters is whether or not it's true.
He still has the opportunity. Please allow him the time and grace to find his way in his time. How gracious and merciful is God towards us? Ought we not to be the same?
Being orthodox is not a requirement for salvation. We will be judged with what we know and how we behave in this world. But if we are given the truth and deny it that is a different story. To have the opportunity to be orthodox is something that must be and that must be taken as a gift. I was raised Roman Catholic and I have been orthodox for a year. It's an incredible gift to be bestowed.
Probably there are some presuppositions there that lead to different views. Especially in the way we should see the church. A protestant will see the application of those Bible verses differently, which makes the way you are putting that only in the eastern orthodox context, strange and mostly irrelevant.
I am someone struggling in almost precisely yhe same way as you. My brother, may God grant us direction and peace to wherever we can best do His will on earth as it is in heaven, amen 🙏🏽✝️
Austin - Thank you for this and your video on your thoughts after a year of looking into Catholicism. I am not Orthodox...yet, but I'm certainly knocking at the gate of Constantinople. A couple observations about your stated reservations from a someone who considers himself a recovering Reformed Calvinist Presbyterian. 1. On the novelty of Orthodoxy in North America. Eastern Rite Orthodoxy certainly appears novel to western protestants - and a bit more mystical than Catholicism. However, Western Rite Orthodoxy (approved by both the Antiochian and Russian Orthodox patriarchates) is - in my estimation - the ancient practice that serious Anglicans desperately long for. Indeed, many Western Rite Orthodox priests came directly from the Episcopal/Anglican traditions, and brought their lightly-edited (no filioque and a few other edits) Book of Common Prayer with them. 2. On the absolutism of Orthodoxy. One of the most difficult aspects of Orthodox theology for me to grasp - and I suspect it's probably the same for many Protestants - is the concept of salvation being a process and a progression rather than a state of being that one enters into at a single point in time. Perhaps the analogy would be, "You might be able to cross the ocean in a rowboat, but I'd recommend taking the massive cruise ship instead." One one hand, you could say to most people, "You're never going to make it to England in a dinghy," and be absolutely right. You could also say, "You've got a much better chance of making it across the ocean on the cruise ship." Neither is guaranteed, but the cruise ship is designed for the journey. The dinghy...well? I'm sorry. I love analogies, and they just spill out. I know it's not wonderful, but how my thoughts are at the time. Grace & peace.
Thanks for this video Austin. As a guy who recently converted to Orthodoxy, I understand and have to say that I also wrestle with many of the same issues as you have. I simply disagree with the notion that there are no true christians outside of the Orthodox church.
Great video Austin.
I used to be a Muslim, but I then left Islam for Orthodoxy. From my studies, the theology of Orthodoxy is sound and based in history. The spiritual life also, as an Orthodox Christian, is… indescribable (and that is an understatement). May God guide and bless us all!
God bless you.
Amazing to hear your testemony brother, thank you for sharing! May the peace of Christ and his love continue to be with you!!
Axios!
I'm so happy for you and I wish you a happy life, may god bless you
Beautiful brother!! Please what led you to Orthodoxy? Would love to hear your story.
I know there are also many similarities Bcz Orthodox we also do prostrations when praying, we face certain directions 🧭 (East) when praying or attending liturgy and also our churches face East and are sometimes dome shape like in Islam. And lots of fasting. Mohammad copied many things from early Christianity which he admired. He was just an Iconoclast and didn’t agree with icons (seeing it as idolatry) so he invented his new religion (or a satanic apparition appeared to him), but either way. We also do lots of prayers throughout our day or week. Would love to also hear your comparison of it.
What made you convert?
My wife and I are being formally admitted to the (Russian) Orthodox Church this coming Saturday (20.11.2021) Previously Baptists
Welcome ☺
May the Holy Trinity bless you and cause His Face to shine upon you! Welcome Home from one previous baptist to another.
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
Congratulations!
God bless both of you. Greetings from Greece.
I'm an Orthodox Catechumen, and I really enjoy your show Austin. Would love to have you as a guest on MINE! 😃
What is your site?
@Mark it's here on TH-cam. A Devotional Heart 🌿
Subbed! God Bless!!!
The WORD says the 7th day is holy
The WORLD says the 1st day is holy
JESUS says Sabbath is holy
POPE says Sunday is holy
🤔WHO DO YOU OBEY?
To: A devotional heart I'm happy you have a channel helping others. Keep up the good work.'
I still remember my senior telling me that her Christian group in University was curious about Church history and other matters. By the end of the 4 years, 5 of them became Catholic (with 1 becoming a religious sister), and 2 of them becoming Orthodox (1 Russian 1 Greek). None of them remained a “mere Christian” or whatever they started off with.
That story made a lasting impact on me.
Because of your interview with Father Josiah Trenham, I began searching for an Orthodox Church to attend. Growing up low-church Protestant, there are definitely some dogmas that I struggled with. Especially the Marian dogmas of perpetual virginity and assumption. As time went on, these things were explained to me in a way that just made sense. I can thank my priest for that. The Orthodox life is also a strict one. Lenten fasts and prayer regimen are basically the antithesis of western life. But in all honesty, it's the rigorous work that makes me appreciate Orthodoxy more. I may not be able to earn my salvation, that was already bought for me when Christ made the ultimate sacrifice, but I feel like I'm putting my money where my mouth is in terms of faith. I became a catechumen in August of this year. I can proudly say that I will be able to share this deep and ancient faith tradition with my children when they are born. That alone makes all the hard work worth it. Thank you for introducing me to Orthodoxy. I'm but one of the many lives you've touched with your content. May God bless you and keep you!
Whatever your reflections on Orthodoxy are at the moment, you've been a wonderful facilitator in introducing many great minds to this Orthodox convert. I will be forever touched by your interview with the sweet and loving Fr. Seraphim Aldea of Mull Monastery. Christ is risen!
Fr Seraphim Aldea is wonderful.
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
He is risen indeed
Indeed He is risen!
That interview killed my Evangelical positivist, rationalist, intellectual arguments in opposition to Holy Orthodoxy. I knew that whatever he was doing was clearly working and what I was doing wasn't. I've never seen Christ-like love like that in another human being as clearly than in that monk. Clearly the Orthodox Church shows the way to Theosis.
As a person who grew up Roman Catholic, lived a robust life of participation in the RCC, including four years of monastic life and over a decade as a lay ecclesial minister, who then, after almost two decades of being drawn to deeper engagement with the entire tradition of Orthodox Christianity, finally became an orthodox Christian about a decade ago, I want to say that I really like the way you talk about this. I also appreciate from my perspective as a pastoral psychotherapist. The process of unmooring from the tradition in which you grew up and were formed to seek, follow and know Christ is profoundly disturbing, and I would not recommend it unless you have forged a profound commitment to following Christ wherever Christ leads. That said, I also don’t think it is a good idea to become a catechumen until and unless you are doing so from a movement of joy at what you’ve seen in the Orthodox church, and are driven by love to give yourself fully to Christ in and through his Body, which you have become convinced is the Orthodox Church. I’ve learned over the past decade that there is vastly more difference than I thought between Orthodox Christianity and even Roman Catholicism, and that I still have so much more to learn. Whether you want to be Orthodox or not is not something I can know, and I don’t think anyone should do so without first having recognized that it is a way of surrendering reliance on one’s own ability to “think it through.” I mean, we should definitely think with sobriety and diligence about such weighty matters, but ultimately, the faith is more given than figured out. I applaud your investigation of how one best goes about being a disciple of Jesus, and appreciate your sharing your journey and thoughts. May your search lead you ever more fully into the arms of our loving God!
What a beautiful response!
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I grew up a fundamentalist Baptist, although through my teen years my mother no longer attended any church. I converted to an Apostolic Pentecostal church in my twenties, but quickly fell away... "All fire, but no fireplace," as Fr. Barnabas Powell says.
I spent my thirties as an atheist, then Taoist, Buddhist, occultist, finally ending up a more or less agnostic deist in my mid-forties.
All through all of that, I couldn't get away from Jesus- I could always sense Him there, waiting in the wings, so to speak. I denied His very existence, refuted Him, denounced Him, insulted Him, mocked His Holy Name (God forgive me), and still in moments of dire need I would feel the urge to speak to Him in prayer.
In the past few years, I sought to figure out what I believed. About a year ago, I asked God, if He was real, and really there listening, to let me know Who He was. And slowly I felt Him returning into my heart and mind, over months, as I opened up and prayed a little more often... Still unsure who I was even talking to, not wanting to believe, yet being led little by little.
Finally, in September of this year, I was completely broken by a personal loss in my family. I confessed to God my belief in Him, I asked Him to forgive me, although I was still hesitant and stiff-necked, my heart still mostly hardened against Him.
At the end of October, I experienced another breaking moment, and my heart was shattered. Not so much for myself this time, but for the world, and what I saw happening in it. I hit my knees, literally, for the first time in decades, and wept before God, begging His forgiveness, to please help us all, to help me be what He wanted.
I began to read the Scriptures again for the first time in a very, very long time. I prayed every night before sleep that He show me which way to go-- I didn't want to go back to a Pentecostal church; I had spent a couple of years recently as a hired musician in a Methodist church, and while I admired the simple love of others in the congregants, there was a worldliness there that I found unappealing... But I was willing to go wherever He wanted me. "Unwillingly willing," one might say lol.
Exactly a week later, I spoke with my oldest friend, someone who is like a brother to me whom I've known all my life, but who I didn't talk to very often any more. We'd last spoken several months to a year prior, and I remembered at the time he'd said he was exploring "Orthodoxy"-- I didn't ask at the time what exactly that meant. I knew nothing about the Orthodox Church, except that there was an episode of 'Seinfeld' where it featured, and I had some vague ideas about Eastern European "national" churches but was unsure what it entailed, despite having been interested in religion and spiritual traditions since childhood.
My old friend was emailing me to let me know that a mutual, older friend of ours had passed away in an accident. We commiserated over his passing briefly, and then began to talk about other things. Specifically, I told him that I'd begun to pray again, had rededicated myself to Christ. He told me that he was a catechumen in the Orthodox Church now, and that he was preparing for chrismation in December if all went well. I asked him what it was all about. He briefly laid out their doctrines (after warning me that he himself was still a babe in the faith, and really had no business teaching) on original sin, Man's relationship to God, how the Fall affected that, the Atonement, God's plan for us.
It hit me like a 10-ton spiritual sledgehammer. In a good - a VERY good- way. So many things that I had idly speculated about throughout the years, whenever my mind would wander to my then-former Christian beliefs, thoughts and ideas where I would think, "If the faith were like THAT, then maybe I could have held onto it", half-formed musings at the time, or so I thought... His explanation of Orthodoxy reinforced all that, as though I had been an archaeologist digging in the dirt, occasionally partially uncovering a bit here, a bit there, and suddenly all the concealing dirt was blown away in an instant, and I saw my half-formed ideas shown as they really were, and that they were all connected parts of a greater whole that was more perfect and more beautiful than I could have ever imagined.
While I didn't have a full vision, I kept seeing in my mind's eye a vague representation of a heavy cloth covered in dust and dirt, being snatched away to uncover what was beneath, and what was beneath was me, it was being pulled away from covering my face and letting in a breath of the sweetest, freshest air and a golden light... That kept replaying in my head, as I tried consciously to come to grips with everything, my mind reeling and joyous and absolutely smitten with the simple yet profound beauty of what I had read. I kept re-reading his email, wondering if it was too good to be true? Was there a catch somewhere? How had I never been taught this before? God really WASN'T an angry tyrant who nailed his son to a tree and then pointed to him, saying to humanity "See what you made me do?!?"
That was a little more than a month ago. I have felt the Holy Spirit leading me onwards, as I've read and learned, pondered and studied and argued with myself, for hours on end, nearly every single day. I praise God that He has kept His Church secure and full of His Light throughout the ages. I'm still learning, getting ready to attend a service for the first time, and looking forward to becoming a catechumen myself soon.
I have seen more and more people expressing an interest in Orthodoxy, seemingly out of nowhere, and it blows my mind. Finding guys in a black metal chat group suddenly popping up declaring their newfound love for Christ, asking if anyone knows about Orthodoxy... In a group formerly full of avowed pagans, satanists, atheists, most of whom would previously only spoken of *burning* churches, and now they're looking for one to attend 😃
God is indeed great. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ, and THANK YOU GOD, for your Holy Spirit, moving across the world like a mighty flood in these dark days.
@@aleisterbroley900 glory to God... Unknown are the ways God uses to draw the souls to Him... Go ahead without looking back... Come home... Praise the Lord for His mercy .. His Holy Spirit guides you to His true Church... Blessings🙏
God bless you and keep you! 💕☦️💕
@@casparbrock7441 same. Grew up Roman Catholic... Did nothing for me. Then I went through my agnostic atheist phase in high school, dove right afterward pretty hard into Zen Buddhism for about 10 years. This was great for me at the time since it didn't throw hardly any dogma at me, but did show me the importance of ritual; I still value the techniques for watching my thoughts that I picked up during this phase. Early to mid 20s I dabbled around a little with Chaos Magick, tarot, psychedelics, etc. Never got too hard into all that thankfully, but it did confirm to me that there was a metaphysical reality behind the curtain of the present reality, and helped shatter my materialism. Thus, I also tried to adopt Asatru and Odinism for a couple years. I still find it fascinating to learn about my ancestors and what they believed, but as a spiritual pursuit of truth, it was simply a dead end. Finally, orthodoxy came to me, quite literally as a calling. That is honestly the best way I can describe it... I had no interests at all in being a weird Jesus freak, but it was a series of powerful synchronicities I couldn't ignore know which directly put me into a church. So I got curious, went down the rabbit hole, and realized that everything I thought I knew about Christianity in the West was just about completely wrong; I still continue to learn more and more and more about the faith the deeper I dig... It's never ending.
I've been a part of the Antiochan Orthodox Church for almost 4 years now (this Pascha), and I've never felt more at home.
I'm personally excited for this one as I've been on a journey studying orthodoxy myself
Me too
God bless you, me too!
The WORD says the 7th day is holy
The WORLD says the 1st day is holy
JESUS says Sabbath is holy
POPE says Sunday is holy
🤔WHO DO YOU OBEY?
@@protestant7778 the word also says one man considers one day holy and another considers all holy. Both do so unto the Lord. Paul in Romans 14
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
The Church came together on the first day of the week to honor the Resurrection not because of the Pope. So be sure you know what the heck you’re talking about before you start making claims.
Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
1 Corinthians 16
1 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
Totality of Scripture
The entire book of Romans does NOT mention the word "sabbath" even once!
What Romans ch.14 is speaking of is 👉FASTING for the Lord
👉(Romans 14:6) a day of fasting!
Of which I understand we are at liberty to choose what day to fast or not!
NOWHERE in the Bible is the sabbath day, a day of the week to pick or choose !!!!
As far as your concern about not being able to be western to be Orthodox, listen to St. John of Xianghai, "One must never feel that he has to be Eastern to be Orthodox. The West was Orthodox for 1000 years". Far from being strange or disingenuous, the Orthodox Church IS part of the heritage of the West too :D
Maybe it's more about abandoning the modern mind.
@@triscat I fully agree. Not joining the true Church because you think it's "not your culture" is just ridiculous.
Cope. Eastern Orthodoxy lacks relevance. It plays a very small part on the world stage. It’s obvious Catholicism is the true church and even non-believers recognize that and treat the Catholic Church as such.
Christians are not of this world! We cannot serve God and mammon...etc...
I am a devoted Roman Catholic but I have learned a lot about the Orthodox Church through your channel. I am not sure if I would have been exposed to it otherwise. I am richer for having read some of their texts and will continue to do so in the future. Thank you for your channel.
Come visit your Eastern Catholic brothers! You will fall in love😁
@@ephesiansbrowne5982 I am sure that would be quite an experience!
same here, there's no way all these early churches were wrong about apostolic succession
@@ephesiansbrowne5982 I went to roman catholic schools and we use to go on field trips to eastern orthodox catholic churches
Same here :)
Im a Sikh, who has been studying Theology at a postgraduate level for several years.
I have been tracing your journey for the past year and have been inspired by your honesty, openness as well as the recourses that you have shared.
Perhaps one of the ways of overcoming your challenge with what (at least to me) perhaps seems like a “cultural shock” is the fact that Christianity really is a middle eastern tradition which has for so long been claimed by a western hermeneutical experience, mainly due to the way western culture has formed in the reception of Christian ideals, teachings and traditions.
@Ben De Maria If you say so!
@Ben De Maria My understanding though is that Limbo is not a Catholic dogma. So I don't think that should be part of the list.
I hope you don't hold the West's interpretation against Christ.
@@kimberlymoore8172 These guys remind me of the disciples of Christ arguing about who is the greatest. Merry Christmas everyone. Hope to meet all Orthodox & Catholics in heaven.
Absolutely spot on
I was an evangelical pastor and educated through the Vineyard Institute and have as of this year become a catechumen in the Greek Orthodox church. Would love to chat with you about this at some point regarding your questions/issues (for lack of a better term). I think I can bring knowledge from the best of both worlds and give light as to why I went east.
Certainly, visiting cities like Thessaloniki and Corinth, going to the Republic of Georgia, and learning about the history and continuity of the church in these places helped tremendously. Also, learning about how ancient people think and viewed the world was really helpful to understanding Orthodox "thinking". Anyways, would love to chat, I think it would be valuable for both of us!
Testimonies like yours are most valuable, since who knows better Protestantism than its pastors? , more than laity... So you can help our friend with his hesitation... In fact this phenomenon of whole protestant congregations with their pastors converting to Orthodoxy is unique... God bless you brother and may enlighten Austin to feel the certainty about Holy Orthodoxy in his heart... Blessings
Both of the local priests at my church are Protestant pastor converts. Welcome!
You can read Becoming Orthodox by former evangelical pastor Peter Gillquist.
Former non practicing Protestant here, being Orthodox since 25 years, after 2 years after finding it.
@@zealousideal Wow, what a powerful testimony from you and the OP. I'm Catholic, but I believe Orthodox also shares apostolic authority unlike Protestantism, with all due respect to the latter. I tolerate and respect -- love even -- the erring (which I believe to be Protestants), but I have nothing for the error (primarily "Protestantism" and its heretical teachings that vary from one denomination to another). That might not sound charitable, but on the contrary, I'm saying that out of love and charity. While I personally believe that Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, don't get me wrong, Orthodox is infinitely better than Protestantism. The fact that there are far, far, far more pastors or more learned Protestants, usually after undergoing serious study, that leave their denominations for the Catholic or Orthodox faith than priests going the other way round (coincidentally or not, are usually those that have been deposed from office too because of abuses from what I've seen so far), while not proof by itself, should give anyone a pause. It's usually the laity (usually by reason of feelings) that leave Catholic/Orthodox faith for Protestantism. On the other hand, the Protestant "laity" usually leave by reason of "reason," and emotions are only secondary.
@david Glory to God ☦️🙏 may God bless you and your family!
I converted a couple years ago to EO after roughly 20 years as a protestant. I applaud you for being willing to make this journey, and to do so in such a public forum!
You may have misunderstood what was said about the exclusivity of Orthodoxy. What the Orthodox hold fast to, what we draw hard lines on, is what the church is. We believe that the EO church is the church created by Jesus and the Apostles. I converted in large part due to the historical accuracy of this claim. However, even though we are bold in our claims about the church, the sacraments are still a mystery, even to us within the EO church. We can't claim to know how salvation works - we just know what we are supposed to do in the practice of the church. As a result, I have actually found that it is less likely than any other form of Christianity for those in the EO church to point the finger and claim that other people are not saved. In fact, when an Orthodox person is completely honest, they will likely say that they don't know for certain that they themselves are saved. This is actually the most honest approach to salvation - only God knows; it is our job to follow the traditions of His church. This isn't an acceptance of Universalism, it is just to say we don't know who else could be saved, and it's not our place to know. We continue the traditions that have been passed down to us.
With regards to the other forms of Christianity, some EO may be bold enough to say they aren't Christian, but this is different than saying we know they are not saved. We simply know that they are not following the traditions formed by Christ and the Apostles. They are following traditions that have Christian elements, but they are not in the church. This is hard for us westerners to grapple with because we grew up in a multi-denominational world, but consider the EO perspective: the EO have maintained the pre-schism traditions as closely as possible. This is a perspective that comes from a time when there was truly one church, and not a bunch of denominations to sort through. The EO have held to that while the rest of the world changed. This is why the EO would not say that all Christians are "Orthodox."
As bold as the EO claim is, when I look back on all I was taught as a protestant (I also have a Master's degree in theology from an Evangelical college), I feel that the Protestant/Evangelical churches actually make much bolder claims. In these western forms of Christianity, where sola scriptura and sola fide are the cornerstone of theology, pastors will not only claim to know how salvation works, but also who is saved and who is not. Believe the correct interpretation and say the right prayer and you're saved. Never heard the teaching nor said the prayer? Damned for eternity. This view seems much bolder to me, and this theology has incredibly harsh consequences to those who are outside of the Protestant world. How could so many people be damned by God? One of the few "outs" that Western Christians have to this quandary is to resort to Calvinism - personally I found that spiritual paradigm too dark to bear.
Sorry if this was too long. I encourage you to keep inquiring. More than anything, I try to stress to other Christians how different Eastern Orthodoxy is. It is a total theological shift that should not be underestimated, and even if you choose to convert sometime in the future, you will need to pace yourself and give yourself time. One good thing about EO is that it's not really based on head knowledge (western thought), but rather it is based on experiential knowledge (eastern thought) ie being part of the life of the Church. So if you really want to understand EO, just keep visiting services as the EO go through the liturgical cycle. Highly recommended services: Forgiveness Vespers and of course, Pascha.
God Bless, peace be with you.
Former Protestant here as well. The “a journey to fullness of the faith” DVD series, introduction to orthodoxy, a 101 if you will, by Father Barnabas Powell a former Pentecostal, really helped me navigate some of these issues, as I similarly struggled with whether I really was a Christian as a Protestant. Well, we are all on different paths and responsible for what is laid before us and what we do with it. The title itself which mentions the FULLNESS of the faith was in itself helpful. I believe he said that as a Protestant his faith was just “too small”. This made sense to me. I just plain didn’t know. But once I found out, I choose to follow where the truth would lead me so as to grow INTO the fullness of my faith, which for me is the Orthodox Church.
This was extremely well put. In my experience, Orthodox are the only Christians who don't automatically assume all Muslims/Buddhists/Hindus/etc. go to hell because they haven't prayed the Sinner's Prayer. Rather, God will judge us based on how what we know and how we respond - and that goes for heterodox Christians as well. If anything, becoming Orthodox really raises the bar of what God expects from you; a higher risk, higher reward situation. A Hindu woman who unknowingly exhibits a Christlike life might end up saved and occupy a better place in eternity than the lousy Orthodox Christian (like me!) But if she had known the fullness of the Christian faith in Orthodoxy she would be equipped with the tools to reach a far greater degree of holiness (and eternal reward.) That is why we must spread the Gospel and the fullness of the Church - to say nothing of those people consumed by sin who would have repented if they had been exposed to Christ.
To be without the Church is not hopeless, but to be with it offers far greater hope than you'd have otherwise.
I agree with all the points you've made here. Spot on. I attended a Baptist church and found the judgemental attitude there about what the true way is far stronger than anything I have seen in any Orthodox church. I think such things are definitely very subjective and yoi raised many important points
Awesome response. Thank you for taking the time to write that out.
Did not have time to read all of this, but I want to later. What you said about it being less likely for EO to claim other people are not saved is something that Fr. Trenham mentioned in a homily. He said that the orthodox say they hope to be saved, while they are more likely to believe others are saved rather than themselves. Interesting remark. Hope to read the rest!
I completely understand the whole comfort in protestantism thing. I struggled with it as well. I was born into a non-denominational Protestant church and I struggled for about a year with making the decision of converting to orthodoxy. All my family is Protestant, all my wife's family including my wife is Protestant. All my friends are Protestant. I was even a member of the worship band in my old church so I have an idea of the thought process you are going through. However it came to a point where I felt I had to be honest with myself and my family so I made the decision to convert. While I personally don't agree with the statement that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church, for me it felt like my salvation was on the line simply because I was being dishonest with myself and my family. On January 16th it will be a year since I baptized into the Orthodox Church. My wife and my kids are still struggling with my decision but I personally do not regret it. It feels weird though going to church alone now because my family still attends the Protestant church but I have peace that I'm being honest with myself and everyone. My wife at least recognized that I have improved as a person, a husband, and a father since converting. That has helped her in accepting my decision.
You are on your own walk with God, and I understand that. However, as someone who grew up in a broken household, going to church every sunday without one parent can be very damaging to a child's social-emotional well being. Think of it from a child's perspective. If Sunday, is the day that we're supposed to worship God, but is also when mommy and daddy separate. It changes the view of the sabbath from something holy to something divisive and upsetting. And personally, I would ask you to look into yourself and see how much of your decision was to satisfy your own desires both spiritually and emotionally at the expense of your family's? Again, only God knows your heart, but do not mistake selfish desire for closure for personal salvation.
Thanks for the post! Totally get it…
May God Bless you my Brother and Lord have mercy on us all.
God bless you and your family
@@sansbazinga9821What an odd thing to say. A mixed religious household is not "broken" and not comparable to a divorced family.
Becoming orthodox is probably one of the most difficult things any westerner, especially Protestant, will do. It will cost you everything. Your community, your career, your Family, Former friends, “brothers and sister in Christ” and those who have said they love you will reject and persecute you. Calling you an idol worshiper, and Mary worshiper, they no longer understand you and don’t relate to you. You are weird, and doing some other thing now, “we should pray for him, he’s lost”
They will tell you what you believe and make you defend it. You mostly likely will feel alone from all this. Orthodoxy in America is not like the comfortable evangelical community in America with a church on every corner and you pick your favorite. In any social setting someone might ask where you go to church and as soon as you say “st….” They have judged you and categorized you as “ReLiGioUS” in other social settings they will make jokes at your expense, because they are right and you are wrong. You will be challenged. It will cost you what you believe to be your ticket to heaven. You go from knowing you are saved, to seeking Gods true forgiveness with every prayer
Your pride will be broke from everything you thought you knew. It’s is a humble and meek journey.I know with certainty It was the best decision i made correctly that the Lord led me to. He tells us to leave everything and follow him. We are called to worship according to his will regardless of how we like or feel about it. Contrary to what I always believed as a Protestant, it’s not about me. It is all about the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray God has mercy on me, a sinner.
Your write up reminds me of my journey from being Roman Catholic. I was never confirmed but was told by my mom this is something for me to figure out and to decide but that I will be accepted either way. When I became orthodox and then when my brother wanted to be received into orthodoxy she was very defensive. He was crossing himself in the orthodox manner and was disturbed telling him hes wrong and that we are idol worshipers. She thought my conversion was due to having some strange obsession with Russia. The scriptures talks about what happens when we love Christ. And when I heard that I knew I was home in his Church, in communion with him. My mother eventually came around, She hasn't gone to any church in the last 10 years but said that we are Roman Catholic and we go to a Roman Catholic Church. The people who react this way know little about their own faith and have little affiliation with it and turn their unbelief around to make us look crazy or lost. I would be delighted to speak with you and pray you receive love from your Orthodox brothers and sisters.
I love this comment. I feel the same experience from my protestant family, but they don't talk religion with me at all anymore. They did come to my Orthodox wedding though and respected it. Being that my particular area has such a big Roman Catholic presence (The Roman Bishop being 25 minutes away) I find myself befriending many Catholics and us having a common respect for each other and our traditions.
@@theworldbeforeus1775 This rings so true... I have to remain calm and understand the ignorance my family members have. Unfortunately, they hurl accusations at me way before trying to understand the situation. They also thing I have an obsession with Russia, and maybe it is true, only to the extent that it is the current guardian of the Orthodox faith in the world.
Beautiful
The Orthodox Church is the toughest thing I have ever participated in. I wouldn't trade that for anything. My Mormon relatives hate me. My Southern Baptist relatives scratch their heads and wonder why I didn't become one of them. My wife, half of my kids, and now some of my grandchildren hold this as the true Pearl of Great Price.
Please consider interviewing Fr. Spyridon :)
Can you imagine how peaceful having those two on one show would be? Pure 🤌🏻
I couldnt really see father Spyridon doing something like that
Fr Spyridon Bailey
@@brendandoshi629 most peaceful interview ever
@@Luka-lw5tl Why? He uploads on youtube weekly and has many books on Amazon, he's not some luddite
My family and I were baptized into the Orthodox Church three years ago. It was a beautiful journey out of western Protestantism. Bless you on your journey 🙏🏻 💕
After 3.5 years of looking into Orthodoxy, my family and i will be chrismated in our local Orthodox church in the fall, God willing. It's a massive shift but it feels like home and we're trusting this leading is of the Holy Spirit. Coming from Assembly of God. Glory to God . Thanks for making these videos and going through all this effort. It has been so very valuable
Glory to God and welcome.!
17:30 in my experience, Orthodoxy doesn't teach that there is no salvation outside the Church. Rather, the Church is where you find the true doctrine being taught and the whole apostolic tradition preserved, but we don't judge the salvation of anyone, not even ourselves. God Himself is the final judge, and we can pray for His mercy upon anyone, but we cannot say whether anyone is saved or not since we don't know their heart as God does. Thief on the cross and whatnot.
I am Orthodox and I really appreciated this! Your point about the way that Orthodoxy doesn't feel "genuine" to a westerner and seems like a modern thing to be able/willing to convert to an eastern Christian tradition at all, that really resonates with me. I've been Orthodox now for many years and it is still a thought that crosses my mind. The idea of "personal preference" is really difficult. It's something, though, that I think is part and parcel with the "conversion" mindset itself, not just Orthodoxy. Anyone who converts from one religion to another is sort of a strange person in that regard since religion is not so much a collection of dogmas and ideas as it is a way of living and the foundation/language of culture itself. So to change from one to another, especially one that is so different from your cultural context, completely throws you off balance in a way. You're treading totally new territory, looking at the world in new ways, and all the while carrying along the history and "baggage" of your previous identity.
I think the only way I really manage that is through a narrative about the west that convinces me I can't stay. I need my children and grandchildren to have the best possible shot at maintaining a deep, meaningful relationship with Christ and when I look around at what western culture has become, I'm convinced that can't happen if I don't leave it behind (at least insofar as I can). It's a sad thing, not something I like to dwell on, but it's the truth of where I am and how I landed here.
I don't think you quite understand the exclusivity aspects, but I think you will in time if you talk to more Orthodox about that. It's all part and parcel with the ontological soteriology of the church. A lot of the conflict you describe I think is really just a misunderstanding of terms and perhaps a misunderstand of the stakes at play. There are Christians outside of Orthodoxy, but also there aren't, because salvation is ontological and there is only one baptism.
Anyway, thank you for this video! I appreciated it!
As an Orthodox convert I appreciate your honesty. Do take your time. Unfortunately, some convert too quickly and you may have seen some of the fruits of that, especially online. I too struggled with many of the same things you did before I finally converted. I also resisted converting for a long time. I hope and wish you the best. Keep on journeying!
Huge respect for your honesty. As a Orthodox Christian growing up in the West, and therefore being influenced by Western Christianity, I understand where you're coming from. I will pray for you that God leads you to the truth. God bless you and your family 🙏🏼
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! You have had some great conversations with wonderful Orthodox Christian guests.
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
Austin, I am in a very similar place as you. Coming from a similar "low church Evangelical Protestant" background, I actively started exploring the Orthodox church about 5 years ago. I have been very drawn to it, but have the same reservations as you. All this is to say, your channel has been an incredibly helpful resource for me as I navigate these questions. Thank you so much for having the courage to do all of this online with an audience - it must not be easy. Much love and appreciation, brother! God bless.
I resonate with this too sister. Thanks for sharing.
What have you decided?
Austin, I have really enjoyed your videos exploring the historical branches of Christianity. They were helpful to me when I was inquiring into Orthodoxy, and as I moved into the catechumenate. While I admit I had less mental deliberation than you-which I admire, and I really respect the careful thought you've given to the most important aspect of your life-I empathize with your hesitancy when it comes to ecumenism and heterodox Christians. My whole family is Protestant; most of my friends are Protestant; all my ancestors were Protestant. My family has asked me if I think they're not saved, and they're not really reassured when I tell them I don't know if *I'm* even saved, LOL. But here are my unsolicited thoughts on the matter, and I hope at least some of it is edifying and beneficial to you.
You know the goal of the Christian's life is theosis: "Blessedness, or, what is the same thing, the kingdom of heaven or of God...but also to receive an influx of the divine, and, as it were, to suffer deification" (St. Theodoros the Great Ascetic). Our whole lives must be oriented to Christ, with the hope of becoming as much like Him as is possible in this life. Our first command is to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength; we are responsible for working out our own salvation with the grace and assistance of Christ. Because we view and know the Church to be the sure deposit of the Faith, with the omnipresent and transcendent grace of God, we know the Church to be a sure vehicle of attaining salvation. This is not to say that all in the Church will be saved (and we cannot know who is or is not saved), but it is truly the Body of Christ, and our faithful participation in His Body is what saves us. We have the means of forgiveness and absolution; we consume the Body and Blood of Christ and participate in His energies; we abide in the company of the saints gone before us.
For the heterodox Christian, attaining theosis without the Church is like swimming upstream in a rushing river. You do not have the proper "equipment" or support structure to complete the task at hand. You may be exceedingly dedicated your whole life, and you may make significant progress given your circumstances. But you are ultimately operating without all the tools available to you. Salvation is by no means an easy process, even when one is *in* the Orthodox Church; outside her, it is even more difficult. Says St. Maximus the Confessor, "Created things are not by nature able to accomplish deification, since they cannot grasp God. To bestow a consonant measure of deification on created beings is within the power of divine grace alone."
We know, however, that God examines the hearts of every man and desires that all be saved (1 Tim. 2:4), showing mercy to whom He will (Rom. 9:18). He does not "[wish] that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance" (2 Pet. 3:9). St. Peter of Damascus says that "alike before the Law, under the Law, and under grace, there have been many righteous men-men who preferred the knowledge of God and His will to their own thoughts and wishes." In the book of Jeremiah (17:10), God says, "I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings." We know God judges us on our works, which are an outpouring of our faithfulness to Him, and the orientation of our hearts to Him. So ecclesiologically, we can say with certainty that the heterodox are not members of the Body of Christ. We cannot, however, make comment on the eternal destination of the heterodox, for we are not God and do not know their hearts, nor His mercies. This is often seen as a cop-out answer, but I think that comes from a (very understandable) desire to be certain of our salvation. Again, though, we are not responsible for the salvation of anyone but ourselves.
As St. Theophan the Recluse said, "You ask, will the heterodox be saved…Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins…I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."
It is not our job, nor our right, nor even an option for us to speculate on the salvation of any individual, even ourselves. Our job is simply to love God, love others, and pray for our mutual salvation and unity with Christ. Prayer for another's salvation-Orthodox, heterodox, or non-Christian-is a more fruitful and loving choice than worrying about salvation or arguing who can or can't be saved. This isn't an easy thing to accept-God only knows how much I have agonized over the souls of people I know-but it is our calling as Christians, Orthodox or not.
very good elaboration of the Orthodox faith ...God bless you..!!
@Ben De Maria It’s not our place to say who’s to be saved and who’s not. Everyone can be saved even up to the last minute. Remember the thief on the cross. The key word here is repentance.
Blessings
The official teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is that all who are not inside of it are damned and doomed. '' No salvation outside of the church '' '' If you are not in the ark you will be drowned. '' Of course reality testifies against that, the evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit is manifest and visible. New births, healings, renewals with people who hated Christ becoming born again and changing completely, people delivered from homosexuality and given totally a new heart, these works of the Spirit happen every day and they happen outside of that organization which says that the Spirit only works within its walls. It is only recently that they have started subtely changing their teaching on this, and we can understand that, as the world becomes globalized and more people enter in contact with other denominations where you see just as much faith, virtue, and devotion to Christ, it becomes difficult to explain how everyone else is a hellbound heretic so the discourse slightly changes toward the '' we don't know, we can't really say '' making a small room for rare exceptions when these are not even exceptions but rules. And if the teaching is problematic, the shift in the teaching toward moderation is even more problematic because the Eastern Orthodox church stakes its entire credibility on never changing its teachings and never erring into falsehood, but by changing their line on the destiny of the '' heterodox '' they admit that they can change their teachings and the change itself admits a correction which implies errancy into falsehood. And if they can err on that question, what other question have they erred about ? Suffice it to say that as someone who considered orthodoxy, this makes the title of the '' one true church '' untenable and not credible.
I’m an Orthodox Christian and I appreciate your feedback. It’s respectful and I completely understand how foreign it would seem to you. I often feel like Protestant churches are very foreign to me.
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
I converted from non denominational to Eastern Catholic. It was extremely challenging for my whole family! Fast forward 5 years, my wife and kids have all been baptized and joined me in the church! Praise God ☦️
That's not Orthodoxy but ok
@@gregcoogan8270 I like to call it Catholic with heavy Orthodox flavours 😂
This is true, it is not Orthodoxy. However, liturgically, it is very similar.
@@frankflammini6935 might as well become orthodox tbh
Ignore the haters, it is Orthodoxy. We just want mom and dad to get back together. :D
Wonderful!
I was protestant for 60 years - The many different churches in my small hometown confused me as a child. When God brought me to O. it all became clear to me that He did “establish His church” ….
The “other Christians” issue is, for me, totally in His Loving Hands - and I have loads of family & friends in that camp.
I just have peace after years of
wondering: “why so many churches?” God bless you🙏🏻
I must tell you......I'm not surprised; saw this coming! I came into the Orthodox Church 5 years after drawing closer and closer for 15 years.....The Orthodox Service takes us back closer to the time of Jesus and the Apostles. The spirit is drawing you in! God bless you!
Such a wonderful and vulnerable episode. You are right about the exclusivity of Orthodoxy. It was a stumbling block for me for quite a while after I converted (in 1994). Before that, I was a pastor, missionary, and seminary professor. I was ALSO very comfortable where I was at and ultimately DID suffer social, familial, financial, and several other kinds of temptations and negative consequences when I converted. That said, nothing in my life has been more worthy. I deeply regret my own sins and failures, but never for a moment have I regretted becoming Orthodox.
A quick correction... we don't say that ANYONE is "unsaved," since we are all on our journeys TOWARD salvation. I would be so bold as to say that this is as close to being "official" and "universal" as it gets... it is not our job, not our right, not within our purview, to even SPECULATE about another's salvation. The moment the thought would cross our minds about so-and-so not being Orthodox and therefore is not "saved," the Orthodox inclination would be to cross ourselves and say the Jesus prayer... lest we lose our own souls. In fact, we are HOPEFUL and even optimistic about the salvation of our Baptist parents and even our Mormon neighbors, not because those systems are not soul destroying (to varying degrees), but because of the love and mercy of God... and because of His indulgence in answering our unworthy prayers for them. We are LESS confident about our own salvation (Yes, hopeful and trusting, but never presumptuous)... never taking it for granted, always returning to our knees in repentance, fully recognizing the abject sin in our own lives and hearts (yet, blinding ourselves to others' sins). Salvation is a process which culminates at the Great Judgment when our resurrected bodies are glorified and we are welcomed into eternity. Until then, any talk about who is "saved" and who is "not saved" is just silly. At the same time, we are bold in proclaiming what is Orthodox teaching and practice and what is heretical, what is the Church, the Body of Christ, and what is not. To Protestant ears, it might sound like we are condemning individuals to hell, denying the work of God in their lives, etc., but this is NOT the case.
As to ecumenism... so much could be said here. It took me quite a while to reject this "practice"/inclination as contrary to the very goals I thought I was furthering through ecumenism, but it eventually clicked. I'd be willing to dialog further on this, but it seems to me that it is more of a conviction that grows with the challenging of preconceptions, definitions, etc., and this through experience with the fruit of the exercise. My only advice at this point would be to pray for wisdom, love everyone, and follow your conscience (which I am convinced you are already doing). You might find that ecumenism isn't exactly what you think and the Orthodox rejection of ecumenism isn't exactly what you perceive it to be, either.
I'm a big fan, supporter, and recommender of your channel... and that whether you take the plunge or not. :D
well said...testimonies like yours count a lot..
I have converted to Orthodoxy thanks to your interview with Fredericka M. Green. Thanks!
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
That is so beautiful. Glory to God!
Jeff cavins an ex evangelical pastor convert to RCC. Said we can not replace the true presence of Jesus with better music that makes us “feel good”. Our emotions can and do lie to us. If we base our faith on how we feel then we will be deceived every day
I'm British and feel like I have returned to Orthodoxy. These lands were originally Orthodox before the schism so it feels like a reconnection to my ancient heritage
That's true. There were even English speaking warriors and generals from Britain who acted as the Emperor's bodyguard in Byzantium and alot of them having fled there after the conquest of William the Bastard
England was Orthodox before 1054? Hahaha You really can read everything on internet.
@@XDomyX The English Church was considered canonically Orthodox until the Norman conquests.Harold of England is viewed as the Last Orthodox King of England and some even considered him a martyr saint.
@@zaccheusanton9470 Firstly, there was no english church. Like there was no french or german church. There was the Catholic church, or the Church of Rome, which was the patriarchy for the West. It is really funny to read comments from protestants that deny this well known fact. Now protestant converts to orthodoxy push this silly story again, but now that early “english church” was orthodox, whereas before that was protestant. Every serious historian can only laugh at this. You must understand that christianity in England before the 16th century was part of the Catholic church, part of the Patriarchy of Rome with western rites. Period. What we will have in future? When a protestant decides to become a Jehovah witness, he will claim that the early christians in England were like them haha. England must be anything but catholic 🤣
@@XDomyX I meant that the English church was considered canonical . Yes they had a western rite like Western Orthodox (or "Catholic" in the pre-schismatic sense). The Western Church was considered Orthodox before the schism. There is an Orthodox western rite today in terms of liturgics and they have the same beliefs as the rest of the Church. I don't know how Protestantism factors into what I said.
God bless you Austin 🙏 may God enlighten your path ☦ (From an Orthodox Christian)
As for those encouraging you to convert to Orthodoxy, especially my fellow Orthodox, pay no attention to the crowd behind the curtain! This is something that you and God will work out. It took me almost 10 years attending Orthodox services before I finally officially entered the church although I was following an Orthodox way of life before. (Or should I say trying to)
I do not pray that you convert to an Orthodox or Catholic or any other Western Christian spirituality. I pray that you remain a firmly rooted Christian as you are now. Please continue your work and God bless you and your soon-to-be wife!
CHRIST IS IN OUR MIDST!
HE IS IN EVERY SHALL BE!
Well, your message reflects for me true unity in Christ. The only one that we must and can achieve. God bless!
Your view is in the minority view but it warms my heart as a Protestant.
I'm an Orthodox convert from being a Baptist(non-cavinist). I converted early this year during Pascha, after attending and researching for a year. My priest did a great job and continues to do a great job in my opinion of guiding me and helping me make the decision. He is of the opinion that conversion should be very cautious, and we should be careful when making such a huge decision, and it is a huge decision. It is a hard thing to deal with. I felt a comfort here, that I know my tradition has answers to my questions and makes so much sense to me. I believe Christ is here. I hold the opinion that we know where the Holy Spirit is, but we don't know where it isn't. I believe there are Catholics and Protestants with Christ and the Saints in heaven for sure. I do, however, believe Orthodox is the Church and the fulfillment of the Christian faith. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I fully encourage your decision to be very careful when converting to anything. I wish you nothing but the best and I will pray for you. Conversion is not something taken lightly and out Faith is the most important decision in our lives. My family didn't take my conversion particularly well, and it has a subtle tension to it when I go visit them. I have, however, come to respect and understand a lot of faith traditions better. May God be with you.
By the way, never judge the Orthodox Church by online Orthodox. I know Orthodox communities around Pittsburgh and they are very loving, very gracious.
I live North of Pittsburgh and am thinking about attending services. Can you recommend the churches in Pittsburgh, especially eastern side, to me? Greatly appreciated 🙏
If “real Orthodoxy” isn’t as historically rich, theologically sound, and unapologetically proud of the gospel as it seems online, then I don’t want it.
Great video! It's so amazing to hear and see how Orthodoxy is touching so many lives! ☦️🔥🔥
Never heard anyone who was more respect full then you and it’s rely nice to see
Thank you Austin for this video! I know it's hard to talk about these things in front of thousands of people yet you do it with great humbleness and honesty.
My pleasure! I look forward to discussing some of this on your channel soon! I find I express myself better in dialogues, so it's likely that if people enjoyed this, they'll really enjoy whatever goes on your channel
@@GospelSimplicity looking forward to our discussion too! Thank you for your kind words:) I am surprised if anyone finds something valuable coming from a Greek but who knows, God can use a donkey if he wants to
As an Orthodox Christian, I just want to say that I can totally see how you would experience a sense of exclusivity in Orthodoxy. Many close members of my family are Protestant and my parents grew up in Protestant missionary families before converting to Orthodoxy, so the feeling of that sentiment hits close to home for me. However I think that for whatever reason, there seems to be a disproportionate number of "online" Orthodox Christians who ardently (and unfortunately) reflect this sentiment along with a firm anti-ecumenical stance that doesn't at all reflect my own experience as an Orthodox Christian having moved multiple times to different states and been a part of a number of different communities.
Ecumenism is certainly a hot topic in the Church and there are some very strong opinions on it on BOTH sides of the spectrum. But I think these opinions fall within the realm of theologoumenon and not an official stance of the Church. If anything, we've seen some significant ecumenical events between multiple patriarchs of the church and the Pope -- and I do appreciate that the Church allows for more wiggle room to figure these kinds of things out. There is definitely a strong feeling that the West has strayed from the Church of the Fathers that was whole for so long, and that we don't want to compromise in the wrong ways, but we also pray for "the unity of the faith" at almost every service.
Also in terms of salvation not existing outside the Orthodox Church, I don't think this is a widely held belief either. I think salvation and theosis sometimes get mixed up in this case, when the two aren't the same thing (if everyone had to reach theosis in their lifetime to be saved, we'd all be in a lot of trouble hahah). There is certainly the commonly held view that one must be inside the Church to have the possibility of fully cleansing their nous and heart, and ultimately attaining theosis, but this isn't the same as salvation. The number of Orthodox Christians we recognize have reached theosis in this life (aka the Saints) is such a small fraction of the rest of us who more often than not spend our whole lives in that first phase of cleansing our nous.
In terms of salvation itself, I don't think we as a church tend to concern ourselves as much with whether or not those around us are saved, because we see salvation as a lifelong process with no guarantees for ourselves despite the fact that we are a part of the Orthodox Church. We just hope that when we see Christ, that we will experience His love as paradise and not as hell -- and we can't nor shouldn't ever make claims for what this experience will be like for others (with the exception of the Saints).
Ecuminism is very heretical and demonic, every Eastern orthodox saint and church father was against ecuminism. Ecuminism goes against what our Early church taught as well. It is essentially a precursor to the Antichrist. It is the type of worldly religion the Antichrist will eventually bring about whenever the End times start (look up the videos by Father Spyridon Bailey/Fr. Peter Heers and quotes from Orthodox saints regarding this topic). The only way a unity between Rome/other Christian denominations and the Eastern orthodox can begin is if the RCC and protestants get rid of all their heretical dogma that deviates from Orthodox doctrine/teachings (catholic divine simplicity, Catholic change to the fililoque, papal infallibility,etc). Ecuminism will just make a watered down, lukewarm, worldy and heretical chrsitianity that deviates from the early church and what was passed down from the first apostles. Also when you talked about recent unity between the two denominations, you have to know that ecumenical patriarch Bartholemew is subverting Orthodoxy, he wants to essentially be the pope of the East, and what he is doing goes against orthodox teachings. Also the Eastern orthodox church is the only way to achieve salvation, and you can't achieve salvation through any of the other Christian denominations.
How can one outside the EO Church get saved, if it is not participating to the sacraments of the EO Church, which are to be given only through the EO priests, respectively through apostolic succession found only in the EO Church ?
@Kiwi Connoisseur Well, I agree! But it seems to me that the claims of exclusivity to God's Grace are expressed in doctrines like those mentioned in my questions.
Hello, brother. I don’t think there is a single Saint in the Orthodox Church that stood up for ecumenism; meanwhile, one could quote multiple saints that opposed it sternly (and Austin is probably aware of that already by this). While I do hold that a pan-orthodox synod should be held about the matter in order for an universal condemnation to be issued, I do not think this matter is that much of a theolegumenon at all. Certainly there is some “wiggle room” but I believe it is not as wide as you may be trying to express.
About salvation outside the Church, it is pretty clear that one must be united to the Church in order to be saved. St. Cyprian affirmed it, and I don’t think a single church father ever hinted suggesting otherwise. This doesn’t mean all non-orthodox are damned though.
@Kiwi Connoisseur I grew up in an eastern orthodox majority country and got the opposite of what you are saying from EO. Actually, I am surprised to hear your position and I am wondering if what people get in the west is more like a "missionary" form of eastern orthodoxy, where these claims of supremacy over God's Grace are kind of downplayed. The way it was explained to me even by practicing orthodox and even priests, these EO doctrines like apostolic succession, sacraments, priesthood, doctrine about Church are inherently exclusivist. In the EO paradigm, the way a non-orthodox can come to salvation outside of the EO Church is rather the exception from the Gospel, not the rule.
I was baptized into the Orthodox Church (Antiochian) over a year ago. This video is presented with so much authenticity and intelligence. And you have a very kind and gentle nature which is refreshing, especially with the plethora of arguments and “Ortho-Bros” on TH-cam. We welcome our Protestant friends and families to “come and see” at anytime. God Bless You, brother!
The thing about conversion to Orthodoxy that I’ve noticed is this: No one comes banging on your door or Red/Blue Pill you into an existential crisis of decision to convert. Normally people, like Moses, happens upon the mystery of a burning bush as it were, and inquire as to “what is this?” Then the journey begins. And oft they find that, “This is the Pearl of Great Price.”
True Evangelism is attraction through truth & light.
For Austin and anyone interested:
yesterday Kabane released a discussion in two parts with Orthodox philosopher, theologian, and apologist Perry Robinson of Energetic Procession. Perry is a brilliant exponent of the Orthodox faith- and of intellectually responsible habits in general. Many of a protestant questions and hesitations about Orthodoxy are answered so beautifully by an ex-protestant who after years of wandering in various protestant branches finally found Holy Orthodoxy...It will be very helpful I think,even for Orthodox fellows ...so many precious matters discussed regarding the process of converting to Orthodoxy and what problems one has to face...First part on Becoming Orthodox, Christology, and Personhood second part on Monergism, Apostolic Succession, and Staying Orthodox..
P.S: in 42:20 of the first part he gives some very good advice about how to deal with things you do not like in the church...
I think you must have Perry Robinson in your channel too,Austin
Those were excellent shows, highly recommended.
Dear Austin, I have been following your channel for some time and I really appreciate the effort and commitment you have towards your work, it is truly admirable! Regarding the video, I will allow myself to share certain comments from my position as a converted Orthodox Christian since 15 years ago. In the Church there are several branches of study, for example, threre is the Theology, Patristics, Eschatology, Hymnography, etc., and one of them is the Ecclesiology, which is the understanding of what the Church is, although the proclamation that the Orthodox Church is The Church founded by Christ and sown by the Apostles is bold, she as a set of beliefs and traditions is nothing more than the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, it is a revelation given to us by God and that we have as a duty to take care of it to pass it intact to the next generation, an act that sums up our mission on earth; But even if ecclesiologically we understand the Orthodox Church as the only Church, that does not mean that all Orthodox are saved or that we have the monopoly of salvation, since salvation comes from God Who sees through our hearts and has known us since He created us, no sin we commit is greater than God's mercy and only He knows our final destiny because He knows us and loves us, I would dare to say that even we as Orthodox have a greater responsibility since on the day of the judgment God will question us based on what we knew and did not do, because God is a Just Judge Who will not judge a good Buddhist with the same harshness as an evil and hyoccritical Orthodox Christian. I am not going to go depth about your personal decisions of possible conversions or not, since it is a decision solely yours and which must be respected, I will only mention that our hereditary background is not an impediment to approach Orthodoxy, it tells you someone from the West like you and a Latino in a third world country without a true presence of the Orthodox Church. Everything can be done if that is your desire and the Will of the Lord. Likewise there is a reason why we oppose ecumenism and it goes from hand in hand with our Ecclesiology, we can get along well with everyone, but neither do I see ourselves discarding unique aspects of the Church and legacies from apostolic times for being "well" with everyone, not to mention the liturgical problems that this would propose, any change It will be not done by our decision since the Church belongs to God, and she does not belong to us. We are servants by God's mercy and not by our own merit, we are the simple guests at the Wedding, not the King Who celebrates the wedding of His Son, and with respect to give up everything remember Luke 14, 25-33, with nothing more to add I say goodbye not without first congratulating you again for your great work, keep going!
The intercession of the saints did not click for me until I understood the eschatological dimension of the Church, in other words, "what is the Kingdom of God?". I realize you have not touched upon this "third rail" of theology, but, it might be of help to review:
1. All of the Apostolic Churches (those whose origins are pre-reformation) hold to the intercession of the saints.
2. All of the Apostolic Churches hold to Realized Millenialism in thier eschatology (called "Amillenialism" by 'low church' Protestants, who mostly hold pre-millenial views, though many 'high church' Protestants still mostly adhere to Realized Millenialism).
3. Realized Millenialism states that (1) Jesus is presently and at this very moment reigning from Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father, (2) that before the ascension, all authority in Heaven and on Earth had already been given to Christ, and that (3) There is no 'literal, physical specific 1,000 years of rule with Christ upon his return", for "His Kingdom shall have no end", in other words, that Kingdom is now, it has been "realized".
4. Orthodoxy (and from what I understand, all the Apostolic churches) hold that the dead in Christ know what is happening on earth. In Revelation 6:9-11, they clamour impatiently for judgment to be poured out on their oppressors.
5. The concept of "soul sleep", temporary abeyance, or "limbo" for the dead in Christ is not found in Orthodox thought.
6. Christ states "...have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
7. As revealed in the transfiguration, although Moses had died and Elijah had been taken up to heaven centuries before, they now live in the presence of God, and that the same return to life applies to all who have faith in Christ. Moses and Elijah were and are alive - so much so that the Apostles asked if they could build Moses and Elijah tents to stay in for the night.
8. Those in heaven are “like the angels,” Christ says. Those in heaven surround us as a “great cloud of witnesses” (Heb. 12:1).
9. In Luke 16:19-31, the rich man shows concern for his family on earth, even though he is dead. If a person such as the rich man has such concern for those still alive after being dead, are those who have passed away in Christ also able to be concerned for the living. Can they do anything about their concerns? Are we to believe that those that are dead in Christ denied or silent?
10. The Kingdom of God is available to us right now, if we choose to access it. Those that are dead in Christ are already a part of the Kingdom of God that will come down with Christ at the end of the age. It is one Kingdom; we are connected to those that are dead in Christ through Christ himself.
"Too often modern Christians forget that the Church is not just an institution, but the Kingdom of God that is here but is still to come. The Church is described as the Bride of Christ. We are betrothed to Christ. The second coming is the wedding day and the final consummation. Therefore, we live this present life in two dimensions: as saved and yet hoping for salvation; as betrothed to Christ and yet in anticipation and anxiety for the consummation of the marriage; as joyful and yet penitent; as having everything and yet possessing nothing; as living in this world and yet “having here no continuing city”; as in the world yet not of the world; as being members of Christ’s Church, receiving the new life of baptism and eternal life in the Eucharist; and yet as striving to be made worthy of the Kingdom to come. This double character of Christian life is absolutely essential"
- Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou
Thank you for this!
This is wonderful. Though I'd heard most of these, it was only after reading #6 (Mtw 22:32) that it really clicked for me
I grew up in a rather cultural Orthodox household and considered giving up on the Tradition I happened to be born into, if it should turn out to be a less than optimal representation of Truth. I don't know if this radical approach was instinctive or engrained into my genetical code by the more pious among my ancestors. Maybe it was God Himself challenging my young conscience to test all spirits, but in any case I was greatly relieved after years of research to have discovered nothing even remotely comparable to Orthodoxy. I can only imagine the tremendous loss and mourning of having to admit the fullness of Truth is not in that place which has been most near and dear to your heart for so long, and I deeply admire the bravery it takes to make that step. I think I can also relate to your sentiment that it's not fair to dismiss so many good and nice people outside the Church, and that isn't necessary, at all. There are for sure many Protestants and Roman-Catholics who make much better Christians than me, but their good conduct can't make up for false or incomplete doctrine, as much as my misconduct doesn't make Orthodoxy any less valid. There are also Buddhists and Muslims who are humble, meek and loving, but it's none of our business to judge the state of their souls. God is just and merciful towards all, and He will ask of each according to how much was given to them.
You seem to be a very careful and well-reflected person, much more than me when I was younger. I have almost had adopted a new age mindset before I seriously studied and consciously embraced Orthodoxy, because I was very focused on what is common good between all traditions. The critical turning point came when I started focusing on the differences, on what makes each and every communion special, unique and irreplaceable.
I was raised RC and converted to EO. I still lose sleep questioning things and am faced with these existential crisis. You are not alone. Even though I am overjoyed that you are researching and looking for the ancient Church, all things must start with a love of Christ, which any outsider should be able to see shine through your words and actions. You are a light, no matter what tradition you may follow. Thank you for all of what you do. May Lord truly have Mercy. 🙏🏻
Ecumenism is the Great Commission? That's not my understanding. Did Paul correct anyone's theology or did he just say "come on in, it will be alright"?
Would JW's, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals be included in the ecumenism you speak of? Unitarians? Where is the line? There is only 1 Gospel. Many gospels is not one Gospel. You must know this.
With love.
Thank you for sharing. It's been great to follow your journey ever since your "Protestant visits a Catholic Church" video came up as a recommendation on my feed over a year ago.
Keep studying and keep reading, there's no rush to make a decision today. It took three and a half years to finally come to Orthodoxy. The journey is hard, but you'll find your way after enough struggle, Austin!
Everyone who's walked a similar path as you has struggled with Mary and the saints but when/if that ever finally clicks its a satisfying feeling.
Keep up the great work and the great content.
Glory to God! Orthodoxy has been such a beautiful path for myself and our family.
Speaking of faithful Christians outside of the Orthodox Church, our priest says, "We know where the Church is, we don't know where it isn't." Many of us who converted know bone-deep that Christ has always been with us, and that He shines so brightly in those who love Him, whichever faith tradition they happen to belong to.
The orthodox call it 'invisible church' and in my experience you will find members of it in every dominations.
I'm excited for this one!
Agreed! Glory be to God!
How come, your comment is "2 weeks" ago, when this video is uploaded 5 hours ago?
I am the only one who see "2 weeks ago"?
@@SoSo-et5cd The video was "pre" uploaded a couple weeks before actually being viewable. That way subscribers know it's on the way 🙂
Thank you for sharing all of this. Your hesitations match my own. I’m continuing to get to know Orthodoxy, and your interviews and insights have been very encouraging.
I share the same hesitations. I’m trying to learn and understand but I struggle with many of the same things he mentions and also the prayer to saints through icons, and even the whole “not knowing if you’re saved” makes no sense as the NT seems clear, like in John, that we can know we are saved. But I love orthodoxy. I love the vibe, the art, the devotion, the ancient practices, the emphasis on having a prayer life, the experiential over head knowledge thing, and also how important it is to actually pick up your cross and follow Christ. I so badly want to convert but I can’t do it honestly while I have so many issues, I would just be a hypocrite and I can’t do that.
@@DavidMartinez-vx7zb I agree with you David. About all the Orthodox Christians I talk with seem to scratch John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9 making it seem as if it is works and faith. Also, I find that the claim that God only works in a single church and by that I mean claiming that He only works in the Orthodox Church strikes me a little rough. I mean it’s probably the most clear thing that God works in more than jsut one church - more than just orthodoxy and more than just protestantism
Thank you for your videos! I admire and am drawn to Orthodoxy for the very same reasons, and the same hesitations keep me from leaving my comfortable Protestantism... Honestly, mostly the impact it would have on my family (I am married with young children and that makes it feel like just a whole other kind of decision .) but I have felt drawn to the Orthodox Church for many years now. Your interviews with Orthodox theologians have helped clarify some theological questions and the interview w FMG on the Jesus Prayer has been truly transformative. That prayer has not only impacted my life but I am seeing the ripple effects in my husband’s and children‘a lives as well. Christ be with you, brother!
I love your opinions. I am Greek orthodox and I love it. I also love visiting other Christian churches as well. I like to learn all peoples ways that they worship and praise God. I love it. I feel the holy spirit in all Christian churches that truly worship him
Glad to hear that!
Thank you Austin, for your honesty! As an Orthodox Christian myself - I must say, Orthodox Christians should NOT be saying who is saved and who isn't. That decision is for God! Even Saint Paul himself did not claim to be saved. I don't know that there is really an 'official' stance on Christians outside of the Church, aside from the fact that we can't receive sacraments like the Eucharist together - simply because we don't know if we believe the same thing, and it would be dangerous for the one outside of the Church to come on contact with God in this manner. It also means that one might be received differently if they converted, depending on their background - baptism and chrismation, or just chrismation, and occasionally just confession. Anyway PLEASE keep doing what you are doing. You go where you find Christ - He is what it's all about. I'd have to profess that the fulness of the Christian faith was best preserved in the Orthodox Church - but that does not mean that anyone outside of the Church isn't Christian. You might find people who say that, but you can find people who say a lot of things! Anyway, you need to go where God puts you, because you are clearly a blessing to many of us. 🙏
If you haven’t yet explored Fr. Georges Florovsky, I think you would appreciate his writings and work. He was a magnificent Orthodox theologian whose Orthodoxy and traditionalism was beyond reproach, who was also very involved with the WCC.
On the power of the laity in Orthodoxy. th-cam.com/video/Amp4vI-RkHw/w-d-xo.html
Dig up Fr. John Behr's talks on Orthodox Faith, especially the ones on "Becoming Fully Human."
@@dorothydeyev3493 YES!
I was chrismated 5 years ago into the Greek Orthodox Church. It has been the most blessed event that I have done in my life. I was raised Missouri synod Lutheran and that was very important to me as well as my family who had Catholic roots but after a tragic family event I went looking for something more I needed something more and I found it in the Orthodox Church. My husband is also a catacuman now and praying for when he can be fully part of our church family.
Austin, if you truly have a deep interest in Orthodoxy and if you feel that you are being drawn towards the Church in any way, you should speak with a local priest about the issues you are having. He may be able to walk you through these issues pastorally, and you may might find great comfort in his counsel. it is a journey for all new converts and the process is different for each one of us, but I think many of us have experienced the things you are describing in one way or another. A good priest would definitely be able to help you through these issues and give you guidance on how to approach the struggles you are having and the current situations in your personal life.
You are an honest young man. I was in a similar place as you as a senior in college on my way to seminary. I'm glad I didn't go through this publicly like you. I took a sociology of religion class that focused on conversion and I was very weary of converting fast or needlessly. So I appreciate your nuanced first answer that has that same concern. As for the rest.
1. Christ communed with the saints just as they did in maccabees. He talked to Moses and Elijah and said he knew Abraham.
2. Dr Ortland is incorrect. Please explore the ecumenical councils and their response to receiving converts from other denominations. Also, the willingness of the saints to die side by side with the non Orthodox.
3. The type of ecumenism that the Orthodox are weary of is the kind that seems to have taken hold. A brushing away of distinctives has lead to a thining of theological depth. Unity at the expense of truth is not helpful. However we are clearly involved in the ecumenical movement.
I know for a fact that as a Methodist I knew the same Christ I know now as an Orthodox Priest. But the truth of the Church and the sacraments became too important. I came to a place where I wanted the depth of worship and had to convert.
Much love and prayers for you my dear brother in Christ.
Well said
Thank you Fr. David. Love seeing Orthodox clergy on here commenting.
Would you mind elaborating on the ecumenical councils and non-orthodox Christians? Are protestant/catholic converts treated as new Christians (baptized)? Or are they just Chrismated (what is Chrismation)?
@@etheretherether the Ecumenical Councils give different lists for who needs to be Baptized and who doesn't in order to join the Church. Council to council these lists differ. This is because the denominations in question changed over time. Chrismation is the Eastern equivalent of confirmation. In modern times different Orthodox Churches apply these canons in different ways. Some Baptize almost everyone, others Baptize only those who come from non Trinitarian backgrounds. It is however becoming more difficult to be assured that a person comes from a Trinitarian background. Even if they come from denominations that previously would have been a sure thing. So if someone comes from somewhere like the Episcopal Church or Evangelical Lutherans we would not have baptized them 50 years ago. Now it is a sure thing that they probably need to be baptized. Unless they are from the older generation.
I'm not orthodox, but a church community here in Denmark is working side by side with an oriental orthodox monastery in Egypt, on several projects, and there's a strong bond and love between these respected communities.
Austin, it is awesome getting to see you on the journey brother! I still encourage you to talk with more of us eastern Catholics and go to a liturgy at some point!
Thank you for recognising the mental toll it takes when you are investigating and learning about orthodoxy. It’s definitely caused a lot of anxiety and fear as I learn more, which is scary and makes me feel guilty.
God won't let a humble sincere seeker be lost. God bless you
As an Orthodox person, if our faith causes you anxiety or fear, then it probably is not for you. The last thing we want is to cause anyone any fear.
My spiritual father told me that when we experience anxiety and fear in spiritual matters it is often a warning for us to pray.
@@DaFooling that's right... Because as st. Paisios the Athonite used to say the anxiety and fear especially the inexplicable fear without any apparent reason is a sign of bad influence by evil spirit that tries to make us lose our courage and faith.. That's why this is when we must pray the Jesus prayer fervently at that time more than ever in order to decline the bad influence..
What is foreign to people from other Christian traditions is this…
Orthodoxy is not in your head!
You don’t approach the Faith by reading and studying everything you can get your hands on!
Take your time! Take 5-10 years! No rush!
What you need to know is already there in the services of the Church!
Theology is built in and we learn by participation.
Isn’t that brilliant!
The daily rhythm of the Church Calendar involves your entire person without fear and anxiety.
God bless you. Continue to search in earnest in your heart.
you definitely put the right sponsor for your Orthodox viewers lol I love Catina Bible
Catina is great
I'm Orthodox and I really appreciate your videos. Regarding the point about whether someone who is non-Orthodox is actually a Christian, I agree that there are hard-liners in our Church. However, it is Evangelical Protestants in the US who would have us believe that Catholics are different than Christians. I have found that to be much more prevalent (to the point that some Catholics believe it).
Hey Austin! You should consider doing an interview with an Orthodox about Mary. I noticed you had one with Catholic experts, so maybe doing one with Orthodox would be fruitful as well?
Great idea. I hope the guest covers history, not just theological arguments.
I love that you discovered the exclusivity of Orthodoxy ecclesia. I think you're hung up on normalizing the term salvation between the sects. Since Orthodox believe theosis is salvation (and that's much more than "accept Jesus into your heart"), then it makes sense for you to see faithful heterodox and for Orthodox to claim them to not acquire theosis (salvation). Different soteriology means different targets.
Based
Yea. Salvation as a process (Theosis) vs salvation as an event ("being saved"). This is the key difference between Orthodox and Protestant.
Unfortunately, I still see Protestants like Gospel Simplicity, even after multiple interviews with Orthodox leaders, not understand this distinction. Either, for them, they can't comprehend Christianity without the "asking Jesus into your heart" part or Orthodox Christians are doing a terrible job at explaining what Orthodoxy means.
Perhaps it's a bit of both.
Thanks for homest and thoughtful video! I remember an American girl who visited our Orthodox parish in St Petersburg, during her studies, and her final words "my protestant church at home now seems to me more like Bible study club. Only here I have seen the Church as the place where I can actually talk to God".
Austin, I strongly relate to what you said about feeling overwhelmed by the different denominations. I also really resonate with your calling to church unity.
I’ve been Christian for 4 years and still have not taken to a denomination. In the beginning this bothered me so much because I wanted to find a church home and community that I felt I belonged in and aligned with my values, but over the years my thoughts about this have changed. I think there is so much beauty and GRACE in being non-denominational, because it means that you recognize the good in every denomination. You see the spirit of God in every church movement and every faithful Christian instead of “just one true denomination”. As stressful as this can be, I think that it is a beautiful thing.
I used to think God was keeping me from finding a denomination as a way to test my faith through trial, but now, I think he’s kept me from finding a denomination so that I crave unity while still valuing the differences in every Christian circle.
I do believe that there is Truth, and most likely one denomination that is closest to it, but I don’t feel like it’s our job to find that church and turn our backs to all the others. Being able to recognize the good within the global church is a BLESSING and a strength that not everyone has! I love that you’re in the same boat as me, and I hope you can see it as a blessing rather than a test/trial!
Very good video. If still examining Orthodoxy, I would recommend talking with Kabane (Seraphim Hamilton), his exegetical work on intercession of the Saints and finding the Orthodox structure in the New and Old Testament. Also, you dont have to be Eastern to be Orthodox ;) I myself am part of the Antiochian Western Rite Vicatiate
Have you heard of, or had the opportunity to visit Archangel Michael Orthodox Church in Burbank, Illinois? It is about a half hour away from you. It is an english speaking parish. I wonder how your impression of Orthodoxy might be colored by visiting an english speaking parish, if at all (I assume this parish is mostly converts or second and third generation cradle Orthodox, with little tie to the "motherland". I've never been myself, only guessing here).
I mention this because I have met Protestants who acknowledge the theology of Orthodoxy as correct, but are reticent to convert based on cultural or sociological reasons. I am not saying that this is the case with you at all - nothing you have said or done would give one that impression.
It does make me wonder, however, how much of an impact the "foreigness" of Orthodoxy in America is an impediment (perhaps even subconsciously) to those who are taking a more academic approach to inquiry. After all, to a degree, it is human nature to say "I'm not (insert ethnicity), I don't really belong there" and to stick to what we are comfortable with.
The inverse can also be said for those taking perhaps less of an academic approach - the initial allure of the ancient sights, sounds and smells of Orthodoxy have certainly drawn in many protestant converts.
Christ the Savior on LaSalle, which Austin visited, is OCA as well and should be mostly English. I definitely understand the reticence of converts coming to the Greek Orthodox Church. In less than 20 years, I suspect that it will be all English and these distinctions will just be ethnic for historical purposes. Indeed, there are Greek Orthodox parishes that at least have the priest do everything in English.
Great reply. The concern I had with the foreignness objection is just that, well, yeah, maybe your entire society and culture is messed up, and you need to fundamentally rewire your way of life? The better way of life may seem foreign
@@pamarks Great point! "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2:20)
This remnds me of a great quote above the entrance to one of the monasteries (St. Paul's) on Mount Athos that reads "If you die before you die, you won't die when you die".
The book to the Hebrews has much to say about this as well:
"These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth...But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city" [That city being the descent of the New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation] (Hebrews 11:11,16)
For here we have no continuing city, but seek the one to come" (Hebrews 13:14)
Thank you for those incredible insights into Orthodoxy. I am in the throes of contemplation and prayer right now in regards to this. I was Seventh Day Adventist for 47 years (my husband still is) left and spent 6 years looking for the "right" Protestant church, left those and became Catholic 9 years ago. I am a searcher and I love my Lord, I only want to do what is pleasing to Him. Been looking into Orthodoxy for about a month through TH-cam, websites, books and my husband and I met with an Orthodox Priest, Your video resonated with my own thoughts and brought up points I hadn't considered. My husband has been a sincere Christian all his life and has been very patient with my struggles, even somewhat supporting where I am today (he could not do that with Catholicism).
Are you still Catholic?
Fr. Seraphim of Rogue River, Oregon, a former Protestant pastor, gave me the shove I needed to finally become Orthodox about 12 years after our meeting. Thank You, Father.
I, as a Catholic, have great respect for my Orthodox brothers and sisters and their Church Fathers. Of course we have our differences but we are from the same root and we are one in Christ.
Halfway isn’t enough for my brothers and sisters in Christ; I want the fullest of the faith for them! Out of charity, I pray for full conversion to the One Holy Apostolic Faith found in the Catholic Church. ✝️🙏
Body of christ can not be divided, great schism happened, Catholics left body of christ.
@@mr.actapus4069, you have been deceived.
@@traditionalgirl3943 How so? Catholics declared Pope as head of the church while original Christians, orthodox kept its theology, dogmatics as it was back than and di not change anything. Go learn history and then brag about who is deceieved
@@mr.actapus4069, like I said, you have been deceived.
I loved this. I converted to Orthodoxy about a year ago, and shared many of the same concerns as you. Especially since I am a Western person, with a western mindset, etc. It was hard.
Stop listening to the hyperdox online. The online Orthobro LARPers are super unhelpful, and (as I'm sure you know) aren't a good representation of the faith. Sometimes Orthodoxy has a tendency to attract hyperzealous converts.
Absolutely right.
A couple of things freaked me out when I was looking into Orthodoxy. One was learning how in places in Europe and the Middle East how the Orthodox leader forbid the Christians in their congregations from giving copies of the Bible to unbelievers.
And to go into membership a person has to renounce the Protestant Reformation, and how this leads the Orthodox to distance themselves from fellowship with other Christians, and it creates a posture of making other Christians come crawling in order to share fellowship and ideas with them. I believer that such sectarianism is demonic and is contrary to the spirit of Jesus Christ.
I'm also no into such a high view of Mary. While I do recognize her significance in her role in the Kingdom, I will not pray to her and revere her as highly as the Orthodox and Roman Catholics do.
I find no biblical support for these positions.
This is a great video. I love that you share the anxieties and struggles and biases we encounter when we contemplate conversion from one denomination/church to another. I felt the same way simply moving from being a Dispensational Evangelical to Lutheranism. Even though they are both protestant the issues surrounding confession and baptismal regeneration and non premillennial eschatology made for some very uncomfortable conversations and circumstances in my social and family life. I can imagine how much more of a struggle it could be for those moving between protestant and non protestant churches. Great video.
There are many thoughts and responses that come to mind after listening, but I will keep it to this. After years of wandering in the Protestant world, including being raised as a Protestant and earning a BS in biblical studies, it was and still is TOTALLY worth having my world turned up side down forsaking all else (not that my life and faith comes anywhere close to biblical followers of Jesus) to accept the One True Church and practice the original Christian faith. "Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door shall be opened unto you, SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND." "The way is narrow and few there be that find it." Godspeed to you on your journey.
On exclusivity: Noah's ark was pretty exclusive.
Next up, go to Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville!
I'm an Orthodox catechumen currently, I made the decision because I feel like it has many spiritual elements western churches lack. But that said, I still have a lot of respect and admiration for the Roman church. God bless ☦️
Hi, Austin! I'm a little late to watch this video, but I'm so glad I did. I relate to you a lot and appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. I'm an Orthodox Christian, born into the Orthodox Church. I went through a time of believing so strongly in Protestant beliefs. My mom was worried about me, which made me think more deeply about what I believe. I had a bit of an existential/faith crisis, not being sure whether to stick with Protestantism or go back to Orthodoxy. It took time, prayer, and lots of research. Eventually, I embraced Orthodoxy more than ever before. Glory to God. I struggled with various topics, including the same specific topic about the Theotokos saving us like you mentioned in this video. It took time for me to understand as well as many other topics. May God bless you and guide you in your journey!
Thank you Austin @GospelSimplicity. Really appreciate your openess. Ive watched many of your videos.
I am (Greek) Orthodox and been on a journey reconnecting to Jesus over the past few years and particlularly the past 6 months including looking at Protestantism and Catholicism and why we dont breathe (holy spirit) together as one church. I hear you regarding your challenges. Ive been to Megachurch experiences in Melbourne, understood their meaning (know their head pastor) but felt something was missing with 6000 people there. Felt like a Tony Robbins experience (Im sure now it inspired him on how he conducts his seminars). Just being honest. In my lengthy conversations with him, I cannot remove the fact I understand the (power) of the Greek language and there is a way to think (cultural?) and words have very deep meanings which I do not see in (English) translations. I think this is major factor in the schism between East and West. One of the keys I see to move forward as one breathing experience (East Lung (Orthodox), West Lung (Catholic), and Diaphragm (Protestant)) is to find a healthy neutral zone for all Christians to understand how Greek was used the first 300 - 400 years for putting together the New Testament (Gospels +), and the multiple ecumenical councils (in greek) and Church Fathers (Greek and Latin) and seek the common ground that be applied in today. Yes going to a Orthodox Church, as an enthusiastic christian can be met by lack of warm feeling, unlike the feeling of going to Charismatic church, although different, I found very warm and inviting (yet something was missing). May I say, the richness that is in Orthodoxy I find deep. Very deep.
In no particular order, as I recall from memory:
1. It began in the east, so that we now "get it from the east" in its most pure form makes a lot, a lot of sense.
2. Shopping for a church. That's not new, and it has little to do with orthodoxy in specific. If you say you yourself feel like that, I get it though, it speaks of how earnest you are.
3. It makes a lot of sense to say "we are the only true church" if one A) believes that and B) has compelling reasons to do so.
4. "Salvation only here" or "dialogue is meaningless". As you've said, you know people that don't believe in that either, I don't believe in that, I know people that don't believe in that. This is not integral to the church, so I don't think its worth mentioning (but that might be my bias talking!).
Have you come across the book The Ethics of Beauty? I have seen you mention counseling and therapy before and this book touches on this subject from an orthodox perspective. Since you were grateful for orthodox spirituality, it would be interesting to see how you react to "orthodox soul healing' and spiritual guidance. I think, even as a Protestant, that orthodoxy will have an impact on therapy since it seems therapy itself is moving in a soul healing direction at the moment. It's definitely one thing that I appreciate as I look into Orthodoxy, as they say the church is a hospital. Take care!
When I was young, it was often said "all true Christians are Orthodox Christians -- even if they don't know it".
We still say this!
Love, peace, and joy in our God!
We Protestants say this too :)
When Gid calls you home, you’ll know it!
All in good time !!!
Nicely worded thoughts, candid, not coarse. Many a convert can sympathize. Many a convert also wishes he or she had converted years earlier but recognizes you're not ready till you're ready. Sometime the big picture that really precipitates the conversion is elusive. If anyone has a question about Orthodoxy, youtube channel Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church, Rochester NY has a live stream most Thursdays
Austin, thank you for this series and I hope you continue. I’m a cradle Orthodox and your interviews have helped me understand with my head what I always understood with my heart.
The exclusivity point you raised is interesting and would seemingly cut against Fr. Andrew’s discussion a few weeks ago. On the one hand, I get the demarcation of you are either in communion or you are not. But I don’t think we can presume a relationship between communal relationship and salvation. Orthodox may have opinions, but we don’t know who will be saved and who will not be saved. We don’t (or shouldn’t) have the audacity to think we have the mental capacity to know such things.
And I don’t think the Orthodox are as concerned about that judgement for themselves as they are about giving proper glory to God.
First, a wonderful video. A tempered and open one, filled with meekness and peace.
Some thoughts after reflecting on this video.
As I am sure many already know, "Orthodox" simply means "Right belief". Orthodoxy is thus inherently (to a degree) non-ecumencial. Orthodoxy's views on the Incarnation & Christology are certainly non-negotiables. Deviating from the Orthodox beliefs on these items is what we believe leads to a whole host of heresies (many that were defeated in the early church found new life after the reformation, such as monoenergism).
Focusing on Christology is very important. Indeed it is the correct place to start with Theology. This 'Ordo Theologae' is a very Orthodox view. I hope this helps one connect the dots to see why there is such a traditional emphasis on staying steadfast with Christological dogma in order to maintain the "right belief".
"Some come to me and say, “All of us who believe in Christ should create one religion.” Now what you’re telling me is to take gold and copper - gold of so much quality - which they [the Saints and Fathers] took so much trouble to purify, and then gather them and melt them into one mass. Is it right to mix them together again? So much struggle was waged to distill the dogma".
- St. Paisios
A Christian has to attend a Church, it is not optional. What to do? Shall we play it safe and attend a church that may be Christologically heterodox, or may be silent on such matters, or may be accepting of all views? But is this actually "playing it safe"?
In doing so, is this not the active participation and acceptance (even if only at the local level) of the suggestion to St. Paisios to "form a church for all who believe in Christ into one religion"?
"O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you." (1 Timothy 6:20)
The Jesus Prayer is dangerous - it's how the Orthodox get you.
I started praying the Jesus prayer during a particularly difficult time in my life, and in fact it was the only prayer that I could bring myself to pray. Needless to say, a few years later I became Orthodox.
Be careful what you pray for because God just might grant it.
Also, your taste in TF Torrance is much appreciated. "Incarnation" changed my life. Torrance is a gateway drug into Orthodox thought because he is highly conversant with Patristic thought.
I was a protestant for a long time, and then had a 5 yr out of church experince of I would call, being in a spritural wilderness. Almost an atheist, even saying I was at one point. But mostly mad at God for not exisiting. (if that makes sense) But really just lost because of all the denominations, not being able to put my finger on something. I had a friend, who went I feel out and away from the church who became Orthodox. For the last 5 yrs, he'd cuasually talk about Orthodoxy. But never pushed it really. Something began to change in my life right around 2019 at the end of the year that started to get me engaged with thinking about God again and Christianity. And when Covid happened and the lock downs started, I really started exploring Orthodoxy.
I had a lot of the same hesitations yoou mention in your video. And grappling with certain things. Especially as a protestant, one thing I had to do was stop comparing it, to what I thought I knew of Catholics. Which what I knew was basically notta dang thing.
Anyhow, my wife, my three children and myself were baptized into the Orthodox church in July of this year. I never realy would have thought I'd ended up here. But here we are. The spiritual life has had the biggest impact on us. And really just the community.
Anyways, great videos. Keep making them.
Six year journey from charismatic, American evangelical, Protestant to Antiochian Orthodox. Many of the parishioners I’m in community with are converts. One of the parish priests is a convert. The saints and the Theotokos were areas that I had to wrap my head around, but the Holy Spirit truly revealed these to me. Like you said, do I have to forsake all my comfortable thoughts and ideas (apologies if that wasn’t the right thought), after the Holy Spirit revealed these things to me, I took the plunge. I see it. I work in ministry where most are of the Protestant faith. Christ is the center of the Orthodox faith and that is where I stay working those I do. I do believe the “non-orthodox Christians” are saved out of the sincerity of their heart in their confession. I converted on Holy Saturday of this year. I’m so happy that I did.
Christ says that you must be ready to abandon country, friends and even your family for Him. Austin says he can't be Orthodox because it's "foreign;" because it's too "exclusive;" because it isn't fair that others didn't have an opportunity to be Orthodox. Well Austin, you have an opportunity to be Orthodox. The only thing that matters is whether or not it's true.
This is probably the most important comment on here.
Bravo
He still has the opportunity. Please allow him the time and grace to find his way in his time. How gracious and merciful is God towards us? Ought we not to be the same?
Being orthodox is not a requirement for salvation. We will be judged with what we know and how we behave in this world. But if we are given the truth and deny it that is a different story. To have the opportunity to be orthodox is something that must be and that must be taken as a gift. I was raised Roman Catholic and I have been orthodox for a year. It's an incredible gift to be bestowed.
Probably there are some presuppositions there that lead to different views. Especially in the way we should see the church. A protestant will see the application of those Bible verses differently, which makes the way you are putting that only in the eastern orthodox context, strange and mostly irrelevant.
Orthodoxy uses all the five senses:
Sight, Sound, Smell, Touch and Taste. We are all participants among the Saints and in the Liturgy.
Thanks for the AD!!
I am someone struggling in almost precisely yhe same way as you. My brother, may God grant us direction and peace to wherever we can best do His will on earth as it is in heaven, amen 🙏🏽✝️
Austin - Thank you for this and your video on your thoughts after a year of looking into Catholicism. I am not Orthodox...yet, but I'm certainly knocking at the gate of Constantinople. A couple observations about your stated reservations from a someone who considers himself a recovering Reformed Calvinist Presbyterian. 1. On the novelty of Orthodoxy in North America. Eastern Rite Orthodoxy certainly appears novel to western protestants - and a bit more mystical than Catholicism. However, Western Rite Orthodoxy (approved by both the Antiochian and Russian Orthodox patriarchates) is - in my estimation - the ancient practice that serious Anglicans desperately long for. Indeed, many Western Rite Orthodox priests came directly from the Episcopal/Anglican traditions, and brought their lightly-edited (no filioque and a few other edits) Book of Common Prayer with them. 2. On the absolutism of Orthodoxy. One of the most difficult aspects of Orthodox theology for me to grasp - and I suspect it's probably the same for many Protestants - is the concept of salvation being a process and a progression rather than a state of being that one enters into at a single point in time. Perhaps the analogy would be, "You might be able to cross the ocean in a rowboat, but I'd recommend taking the massive cruise ship instead." One one hand, you could say to most people, "You're never going to make it to England in a dinghy," and be absolutely right. You could also say, "You've got a much better chance of making it across the ocean on the cruise ship." Neither is guaranteed, but the cruise ship is designed for the journey. The dinghy...well? I'm sorry. I love analogies, and they just spill out. I know it's not wonderful, but how my thoughts are at the time. Grace & peace.
Thanks for this video Austin. As a guy who recently converted to Orthodoxy, I understand and have to say that I also wrestle with many of the same issues as you have. I simply disagree with the notion that there are no true christians outside of the Orthodox church.