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The complex formula used to calculate its damage is annoying too. Make it function like the shahanshah valve pls -50% damage at 150-200 health, base damage at 100-149 health, +50% damage at 50-99 health +100% damage at 1-49 health
I was confused for a second reading this, since random damage spread (RDS) is a term to a different mechanic which used to plague on all weapons. Which was a thing from release 2007 to gunmetal 2015.
The problem isn't randomness, but being super specific and lack of consistency making it inconvenient and random like which isn't random per say but annoying to use. It's like how in don't starve wolfgang's mighty meter used to work before the rework.
@@immortalsun Valve doesn't hate modders, The TF2C and OF devs were illegally using TF2's codebase, Valve is trying to make a TF2 SDK so thst they can make total conversion mods legaally.
@@ocsanik502 With how little that has been done with TF2 in the past few years, you honestly believe that valve is going to work hard enough to get an SDK from TF2’s “spaghetti code”.
The game modes one would be interesting. every unused or rarely used mode has its own weird quirks that change up gameplay so much. Mannpower ins the only mode with random crits disabled, and has a fully fleshed out system for nerfing a player whos dominating a lobby, and you get slowed for carrying the objective. Passtime has bounce pads, air vents, and speed boosts, as well as the jack carrier acting as a medic for the entire team while also being slowed for carrying the objective, on top of the incredibly complicated merasmus tv achievement Medieval mode has an entire alternate chat system
@@ryanhernandez8324 Certain words are replaced by other words or have "-eth" added to them. E.g. "fuck you, medic" could become "fucketh thee, sawbones"
Weapons that should cause bleed (some may do so already, but I don't know them all). Eviction Notice. Equaliser. Butter knife (if no backstab was done). Pain Train. Amputator.
5:53 they actually balanced around that every class has a different grappling hook speed wich means yes a heavy can go to the other side of the map but its pretty slow making him use the grappling hook more for a positional advantage
Medieval mode needs so much more love. Its so fun having to play like that but it needs more maps and more weapons need to be added for other classes to give variety
I mean, a Ballista Blueprint set (for Engineer as a PDA Replacement) could be used to make a manual turret emplacement on a larger map than DeGroot Keep.
Me and my friend (who are both highlander players) sat down together to decide what powerups our team would use if we could choose one per class. This is what we came up with: Scout: Reflect Soldier: Vampire Pyro: Agility Demo: Strength for KOTH and on offense payloads, Haste Scottish Resistance Demoman on defense payloads Heavy: Precision (sometimes swap to Strength or Haste from Demo in close quarters, like a Swiftwater apps uber) Engi: Regeneration Medic: King Sniper: Resistance Spy: Plague
So I got thinking about this a lot when editing and my answer differs a bit. Since you probably have more experience with HL I'd love to hear your feedback: Scout: Haste (bonus movement + insanely lowered kill times) Soldier: Vampire (makes him his own pocket) Pyro: Agility (free Degreaser effect + much needed mobility) Demo: Strength (makes DPS go through the roof, especially with sticky spam) Heavy: King (he'll usually be in the middle of the team, plus extra max HP and ability to heal the Medic helps) Engineer: Regeneration (free metal helps a lot) Medic: Resistance (makes Medic much harder to pick) Sniper: Precision (it's OP on Sniper) Spy: Plague (easy to cause crowd damage) Scout and Demo could switch powerups with about the same effectiveness depending on mode. Also note that for my list, I banned Supernova, Knockout, and Reflect since the first two are based around knocking out powerups (which we wouldn't want in a mode like this) and Reflect makes 1v1ing almost impossible without grappling hooks being a thing.
@@Great_Blue if we are banning reflect, then haste scout is probably the best way to go I agree. Me and my friend debated on precision sniper, but decided heavy with it was a better option, since it makes him much more of a ranged threat than before. And our sniper is very aggressive, so we chose the resistance to give him more survivability. Precision could be swapped on sniper for shield on heavy, but that would probably depend on how good the sniper is, and how aggressive he chooses to be. We chose medic to have king for the health bonus and passive regen to those around him, plus the 50% faster Uber build. and since he’s the class that’s supposed to die the least, that aoe heal should be constant, at least in our thinking. We were thinking having med with the shield but 50% more Uber build is too good to pass up. We didn’t even ban knockback, we just didn’t see a good use case for it over other powerups, other than a suicide play by spy.
@@Great_Blue Honestly strength on Heavy is really under-appreciated. 18 damage per bullet with tap-firing with the Tomislav is just absurd and Heavy can kill someone from across the map in just a few shots. His DPS is just too high to take on directly and his new range means that you have to start to respect him almost as much as you would a sniper. Demoman sounds great with it because doubling the damage of an already powerful area damage class is always good, but he doesn't get nearly as much of the "no damage falloff" out of it so he just becomes better at doing what he's already good at, but keeps his same weaknesses. Unlike Heavy, who not only does his normal job better, but tells one of his big weaknesses to disappear.
Ok so basically, I want to make a comment that is also long like the other comments So what I'm talking about is how Valve should just give TF2 to another developer or the community so that valve won't be shitting on us tf2 fans And I know that valve will keep the game aslong as it gives them more $$$ so that makes valve greedy and that also makes my comment long and now I can go to bed and rethink my life choices. Bye bye 💀
@@NineBulletRevolver thay could be fixed with a 3 capture points system, your team has to control 2 of 3 to push the cart, 3 of 3 and it gets an speed bonus
I remember back in the day before the huge UI change the TF2 menu got I'd play the testing tab all the time for the gamemode where you destroyed robots and stuff and it was fun as heck, same with the payload map that it had. It was fun too because you got to see the map get more developed as time went on, really wish they brought that back.
@@thisisnotaustin1 because it's a retarded and unfair mechanic that might have had a place in tf2 when the game only had 6 maps But this isn't 2007 anymore. There's no reason for them to exist now.
Though only briefly mentioned, item sets are the main thing I wish were used better. Yes, the old Polycount sets were P2W, but you could, for instance, make crafting recipes for the related cosmetics so everyone has a chance to get them. At the very least I'd like to see the sets actually function cohesively together since a lot of them don't anymore. (As an example, the Shortstop used to give you extra healing which paired nicely with the Mad Milk to help you stay alive, but they removed that in favor of the completely worthless shove.)
There was 0 reasons why they couldn't just make the set bonuses from weapons only. Demoman had a weapons only set bonus (even tho he did have a hat that was made for the set, it wasn't part of the set bonus for some reason)
i really like how the saharan spy set does this unique sandstorm effect when taunting with all the items. such things and calling cards would incentivize buying sets more which valve would appreciate.
@@beanslinger2it’s Fabricate set headgear. It uses ANY weapon from a set. It also creates cosmetics that are not hats but are a part of the set. I think valve should bring back item sets but make it where each set offers a slight bonus to a specific play style of that weapon. A good example of a set bonus: Backburner, Thermal thruster, Hot hand. Causes your thermal thruster to recharge 20% faster.
It's fascinating to see how Mannpower or even Territorial Control (Hydro) had a lot of effort put into them only to fall flat. I wonder if their many failed experiments kind of discouraged what used to be of the TF2 team from continuing to work on the game/creating trulty ~new~ content. Interesting video!
Would have loved to see the MVM Item Upgrade mechanic incorporated into a PVP gamemode - powerups would have to be dumbed down from what they are currently for obvious balance reasons, but I think the idea of getting money on kill or confirming kill to make yourself more power, similar to a MOBA would be fun as hell
Ehhh there's some huge issues with that. It's a snowball mechanic that requires you stay in a match for long periods of time. So now you've made a casual mode that demands a very serious commitment, because the mode simply doesn't work if you let people join mid match or leave mid match. This would throttle it's likely already small userbase.
A nerfed variant of the grappling hook should be something that the Spy has access to. I imagine it as a revolver with 3 shots, and when you right click you don't actually get to cloak, but you fire off a grappling hook that has limited range and can only be used once in a while. Would make playing as a spy much more interesting.
Engineer's buildings have massive wasted potential. His PDA slot is devoid of anything else you can equip in it other than different qualities of stock. We could've had amplifiers, mini-dispensers, jump pads, speed pads or who knows what else, and all we have are mini sentries, and you can't even equip the pip-boy in the PDA slot.
I think that if grapple hooks were added they could be an all class secondary that has a range of 1000 hammer units and can only be used every 20 seconds.
I love how much depth TF2 has, you can never run out of things to try, sadly many of them like replays, arena mode and that whole alien invasion plotline are tragically underused and basically don't exist, but even things like DeGrootKeep having a unique chat system that puts all text into medieval speak is so cool.
One idea I've had for years regarding a few maps like Doublecross is that they could fill the abyss bellow the second bridge with water and make a hidden underwater tunnel bellow that gave an extra entryway into the intel area, Honestly Water is such an underutilized area of TF2 which is a shame considering how fun it can be, I really hope if we ever get a revival of TF2 that we start seeing new map mechanics and utilization of space.
5:20 "Numerous Mannpower updates" haHA you mean the 3 that came over a year a go??? ... yeah, I guess when we're so starved for updates that is a lot... :C
I wish that the grappling hook had more use it was really fun. I also think that the magic spells should just have their own gamemode that you can play at anytime.
Yeah mannpower DEFINITELY one of the most underused mechanic, seriously it's the only niche gamemode that still even got updated (well it has been what 1 year since the last update). I honestly never play mannpower but maybe i'll give it try Okay you know what, all alternative gamemode ARE underappreciated. If only they ever got some appreciation from valve
Robot Destruction seems like a great mode and Asteroid is a good map (Ignoring all of the missing textures), would love to see you make a video about it
6:37 - 6:50 This in-depth explanation of the duck journal system makes this retrospective on End of the Line really funny to me. Also SEVEN YEARS. IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS. OH GOD.
also it sucks that shadow leap was used so much for map breaking with its teleport that it got removed from the spell list for other non helltower maps
2:33 I had a similar thought once. I ended up making a new class around casting spells. I called her "the Caster" and she had a revolver, spellbook, and staff. She'd use the spellbook to select spells she casts with right click, or press B to quickly cycle between them, and she has a mana counter that refills over time and starts with 50 mana. in addition to costing mana, spells also have cooldowns As for the spells themselves, I gave her most base Halloween spells, one rare spell, and 2 Mannpower powerups tweaked to also affect nearby teammates: Bat Swarm, Stealth, and Regeneration all have short cooldowns and low costs, Fireball, Blast Jump, and Strength have medium cooldowns and costs, and Meteor Shower, Shadow Leap, and Overheal have long cooldowns and costs, with Overheal specifically costing all 200 mana. I even made a few unlocks for her secondary slot, such as a summoning circle that works like Engineer's build PDA but summons mini-bosses, and a deck of cards that you draw random spells based on Ghost Fort and Carnival of Carnage, and you'd have to play the full deck before you can re-cast any spells (meaning you'd have to cast bad/useless spells). Might make another one based on Mannpower, as well as come up with MVM upgrades for her.
Halloween spells are deadass the most fun I've ever had in this game. I still remember playing for *hours* on end on helltower back when it was first added, it was so much fun
on the topic of Spells, a while ago I was brainstorming ideas for a hypothetical Team Fortress 3(which in turn had spun off ideas I had about doing a TF2 inspired Tabletop RPG), with the assumption that it'd have a new cast of characters for it's classes, since things would necessarily need to be streamlined but I didn't want to just toss out some of the more interesting things TF2 evolved in it's arsenal I ended up deciding to spin off some of the "subclasses" in TF2 into being their own classes, so things like Huntsman Sniper, Demo-Knight, possibly even Gunslinger Engineer would become full separate classes of their own(kind of like how Killing Floor 2 split up the Commando and Sharpshooter perks from KF1 into Commando & SWAT and Sharpshooter & Gunslinger), this in turn led me to contemplate a couple entirely new classes, most I never got around to fleshing out much(vague ideas about an Australian/Berserker class in the vein of Saxton Hale or that old Rabid Heavy SFM video, or a rejiggering of the Civilian as a team support class with a bit more gunplay mixed in), but I did put some more thoughts into a Wizard class, that would use an expanded version of the Halloween Spells system for it's attacks and abilities(as well as some of the stuff Merasmus and the Bombinomicon can do on some maps) I ended up losing most of the notes I had on the concept a while ago, but I still think the idea has some potential
On the topic of Mannpower Power-ups and Spells, I feel like having a few specific maps for each regular mode that happens to have a few OP abilities like this would be just fine, since they'll show up occasionally but not really shake up the entire meta of the base-game when it's just like "well now we're playing the crazy map"
Spells: A player emits a particle effect to denote their spell. Ghastly overheal which should be significantly different to the regular overheal particle, for the uber heal. Purple lines for the jump. Bats for the bats. A pack of dynamite pumpkin or something for the mirv. ETC. Also, make it a set equip. You can only choose one spell at a time, and picking up spellbooks give you 1 use of that spell. Fun fact, the jump heals you a little, for fall damage compensation. Mannpower: Tone down powerups, make them select-on-spawn, or resupply locked, like the fecking caber for some reason why are the caber and the razorback the only consumable items that don't recharge Give the classes maybe three styles of hook. Sharp Hook - default with slightly less mobility - maybe it's slower in shoot and reel, maybe it doesn't do as much damage as base mannpower, and probably only spy, engineer, and uhh... sniper. Slim hook, base hook speeds but only for scout, maybe spy, pyro? engi? Grapple Harpoon, for Heavy, Soldier, Demo, it goes loonngggg but maybe it arcs just a little, but it reels you in SPEEDY but it doesn't work if you hit a player, since it should be for terrain. Don't give the inescapable bleed to everyone, don't give hypermobility to the heavy, etc.
Some of the most fun I have in TF2 is in Mannpower, CTF_Hellfire especially. When you've got the right loadout with the right powerup on the right team you can go on genuinely stupid killstreaks. Shame that Valve added a mechanic that punishes the players going on killstreaks by nerfing their powerups and marking them for death until they stop doing so well. The debuff doesn't even go away upon dying. That's usually my call to leave the game.
So THAT'S why I saw ya in Gorge awhile ago ;) Glad you included Mannpower's nutty mechanics in the video. Powerups and Grapples certainly add a new spin to TF2 and really create their own style/meta
Stuff I’d love in future TF2 stuff… 1. TFC mode, which adds things like grenades and armor and whatnot. 2. Proper utilization of physics objects, flashlights and the Use key 3. Mobility Gels on an Aperture-themed map 4. Maps with background music a la Unreal Tournament
A change that could be for the spells is that you have to go to your last slot to be able to cast a spell. While you have a spell ready, it could show different colors or different particle effects to explain what spell you have to players.
There is actually another very rare gamemode that is only used on one map, its the free for all 3 points controll points mode on standin, it has no official name standin is the only map that has it.
Grappling hooks are FAST. It's you hold down jump and the grapple button and hook along a wall, you can go faster than just grappling once and holding it.
For some of these modes (Duck most notably), my suspicion is that it was a test bed for a mechanic like this in other game. That's why it was not supported - deployed on servers for just long enought to get data on high population game.
I miss rd_asteroid… I loved stealing the enemy core and scampering back to your own base to capture it. I think the spells are fine! (If not a little underused). But it is a Halloween only thing. Manpower mode is underplayed now but back in the day it was super fun. Nerfing them is a dumb idea as they’re not supposed to be super balanced… they’re power ups… Passtime has always been underplayed
Both of those video ideas sound awesome. If you do the gamemodes, I'd recommend making some changes to Territory Control (most notably, making the path blockers change dynamically like forward spawn and gates, rather than sending everyone to spawn. The map thing would be shrunk and put at the bottom of the screen as well as placed inside spawn rooms.) This should make the gamemode significantly less disorientating.
The power ups could be part of a juggernaut map; it’s everyone against the Juggernaut, who has buffs to make them more powerful than the rest - whoever lands the finishing blow becomes the new Juggernaut.
From what I've heard the reason mannpower gets balancing updates is because one of the devs plays it on occasion. Mannpower appears to have its own playerbase much like MVM, it has regulars and also some gatekeepers, unfortunately. Either you see people destroying your team as spy with haste and absolutely zooming accross the map in like 2 grapple shots or you get clueless new players who ended up in mannpower by sheer accident.
IMO, Power Ups could be tuned down outside of mannpower and added in an additional loadout slot shere you charge it up, then gain access to the power-up for a limited time (say 5-10 seconds or so?)
Cool Mannpower fact; The idea of grappling hooks predates Quake Team Fortress, being featured in Quake CTF before Quake Team Fortress was even realized
I think spells could be used as a rechargeable secondary slot for most classes, much like the gas passer or soldier backpacks in standard play The Mannpower powerups could be temporary buffs used like the Soda Popper's jump enhancer, with alt-fire or middle mouse activating the perk on the weapon Grappling Hook is hugely OP with it's mobility, honestly think it should be on a timer like the Thermal Thruster and restricted to maybe one class... Perhaps Soldier... the other classes either don't need it or like heavy or engie would be able to capitalize on the mobility too well
I love Mannpower. Not because I like the gamemode, but because the first tf2 map I made was a mannpower map because I hadn't yet realized that a map doesn't need a special entity to be a ctf map unlike Mannpower. It was also my first time actually making a map in hammer at all, obviously the map was awful. The spawn rooms literally took up around 25% of the map, the only path to the flag went right past the spawn doors, and I hadn't yet figured out team filters, so anyone could just walk into the enemy team's spawn at any moment. I said I'd make it better, yet I have not even played on the map since 2020 and I think I deleted it from the workshop.
For a lonf period of my Tf2 gaming life, like to 6 years ago from whenever I had started; I used to only play Manpower, I loved the grapple and wasn't confident in the movement and shooting mechanics of the game and power ups could even the playing field for me against some experienced players. Even now it's refreshing to hop onto the mode from time to time!
I really don't like the grappling hooks in mannpower, i mean sure its fun to zip around at high speeds but trying to deal with trickstabbing spy is rage inducing levels of salt would be cool to see the mann powerups though, heavy with Accuracy and a brass beast turns him into a long range sniper
Valve's game honestly has so much going for it, medievil mode for instance is so fun but funnily enough it suffers most from lack of care given to classes, you either go Sniper, Medic if you have the Crusader's Crossbow Heavy, but more often than not Demoman, and sometimes spy if you're good at it and maybe a scout if you feel like throwing a mad milk. But imagine how much more fun it could be if maps were built around demomen charge's or even how interesting new medieval engineer building would be with a catiult replacement for the teleportor or a Ballista that the engineer has to aim himself and a cooler which a engineer fills by using metal so it can heal players forcing him to just go out and have to actually either gather metal or rewarding him for getting kills, it could also be refilled with heavy's sandvitch's. Serioulsy though tons of classes could have simple stuff added to them to fit the mode no matter how basic and with the addition of maps that incorporate other game modes like paylod or capture the flag. The whole thing could be it's own update honestly and Valve has tons of stuff like this in other modes, why don't they just rake in the cash?
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Medics. Medics are the most underused mechanic
Really good sponsor!
its so annoying that the equalizer is still balanced around random damage spread so its damage bonus is utterly pathetic
The complex formula used to calculate its damage is annoying too. Make it function like the shahanshah valve pls
-50% damage at 150-200 health,
base damage at 100-149 health,
+50% damage at 50-99 health
+100% damage at 1-49 health
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 I had no idea that's how good it was... might never use the shiv again after reading this.
@@samuelcolt6670 no, he was setting an example for what it should be like
it's not like that
I was confused for a second reading this, since random damage spread (RDS) is a term to a different mechanic which used to plague on all weapons.
Which was a thing from release 2007 to gunmetal 2015.
The problem isn't randomness, but being super specific and lack of consistency making it inconvenient and random like which isn't random per say but annoying to use.
It's like how in don't starve wolfgang's mighty meter used to work before the rework.
your highlander mannpower idea is smth i've wanted so long it's the dream
Somebody could easily mod that if Valve didn’t fucking despise modders.
The modders hate the modders
@@immortalsun Valve doesn't hate modders, The TF2C and OF devs were illegally using TF2's codebase, Valve is trying to make a TF2 SDK so thst they can make total conversion mods legaally.
@@ocsanik502 With how little that has been done with TF2 in the past few years, you honestly believe that valve is going to work hard enough to get an SDK from TF2’s “spaghetti code”.
@@gaylussac6156 Source SDKs and a TF2 Hammer editor already exist so basically all the spaghetti is handled, There's really not much work left to do.
The game modes one would be interesting. every unused or rarely used mode has its own weird quirks that change up gameplay so much.
Mannpower ins the only mode with random crits disabled, and has a fully fleshed out system for nerfing a player whos dominating a lobby, and you get slowed for carrying the objective.
Passtime has bounce pads, air vents, and speed boosts, as well as the jack carrier acting as a medic for the entire team while also being slowed for carrying the objective, on top of the incredibly complicated merasmus tv achievement
Medieval mode has an entire alternate chat system
very very cool indeed
How does the medical mode thing work
@@ryanhernandez8324 Certain words are replaced by other words or have "-eth" added to them. E.g. "fuck you, medic" could become "fucketh thee, sawbones"
@@KnightandDay33 You haven't tried to send a message in medieval mode?
@@whirl3690 that's hilarious! Just like KnightandDay, I thought people were just joking around
I think that bleed is way too under utilized, especially with practically all bleed weapons being for scout
Weapons that should cause bleed (some may do so already, but I don't know them all).
Eviction Notice.
Equaliser.
Butter knife (if no backstab was done).
Pain Train.
Amputator.
My standard is usually 'What mechanics would make it into TF3' and I just don't see a reason for bleed to exist at all.
@@panicwolf8586 +jarate and mad milk
@Blackout pyro
@Blackout ask that to whoever let pyro be a thing
5:53 they actually balanced around that
every class has a different grappling hook speed wich means yes a heavy can go to the other side of the map but its pretty slow making him use the grappling hook more for a positional advantage
but even then some are kinda busted like pyro and spy so yeah it needs a little tweaking if you want to see them in a regular map
Also, heavies are the only class that can’t jump while grappling. Actually super annoying, as it massively reduces the mobility benefits of the hook.
Medieval mode needs so much more love. Its so fun having to play like that but it needs more maps and more weapons need to be added for other classes to give variety
I mean, a Ballista Blueprint set (for Engineer as a PDA Replacement) could be used to make a manual turret emplacement on a larger map than DeGroot Keep.
Me and my friend (who are both highlander players) sat down together to decide what powerups our team would use if we could choose one per class. This is what we came up with:
Scout: Reflect
Soldier: Vampire
Pyro: Agility
Demo: Strength for KOTH and on offense payloads, Haste Scottish Resistance Demoman on defense payloads
Heavy: Precision (sometimes swap to Strength or Haste from Demo in close quarters, like a Swiftwater apps uber)
Engi: Regeneration
Medic: King
Sniper: Resistance
Spy: Plague
So I got thinking about this a lot when editing and my answer differs a bit. Since you probably have more experience with HL I'd love to hear your feedback:
Scout: Haste (bonus movement + insanely lowered kill times)
Soldier: Vampire (makes him his own pocket)
Pyro: Agility (free Degreaser effect + much needed mobility)
Demo: Strength (makes DPS go through the roof, especially with sticky spam)
Heavy: King (he'll usually be in the middle of the team, plus extra max HP and ability to heal the Medic helps)
Engineer: Regeneration (free metal helps a lot)
Medic: Resistance (makes Medic much harder to pick)
Sniper: Precision (it's OP on Sniper)
Spy: Plague (easy to cause crowd damage)
Scout and Demo could switch powerups with about the same effectiveness depending on mode. Also note that for my list, I banned Supernova, Knockout, and Reflect since the first two are based around knocking out powerups (which we wouldn't want in a mode like this) and Reflect makes 1v1ing almost impossible without grappling hooks being a thing.
@@Great_Blue if we are banning reflect, then haste scout is probably the best way to go I agree. Me and my friend debated on precision sniper, but decided heavy with it was a better option, since it makes him much more of a ranged threat than before. And our sniper is very aggressive, so we chose the resistance to give him more survivability. Precision could be swapped on sniper for shield on heavy, but that would probably depend on how good the sniper is, and how aggressive he chooses to be. We chose medic to have king for the health bonus and passive regen to those around him, plus the 50% faster Uber build. and since he’s the class that’s supposed to die the least, that aoe heal should be constant, at least in our thinking. We were thinking having med with the shield but 50% more Uber build is too good to pass up. We didn’t even ban knockback, we just didn’t see a good use case for it over other powerups, other than a suicide play by spy.
@@Great_Blue Honestly strength on Heavy is really under-appreciated. 18 damage per bullet with tap-firing with the Tomislav is just absurd and Heavy can kill someone from across the map in just a few shots. His DPS is just too high to take on directly and his new range means that you have to start to respect him almost as much as you would a sniper. Demoman sounds great with it because doubling the damage of an already powerful area damage class is always good, but he doesn't get nearly as much of the "no damage falloff" out of it so he just becomes better at doing what he's already good at, but keeps his same weaknesses. Unlike Heavy, who not only does his normal job better, but tells one of his big weaknesses to disappear.
Ok so basically, I want to make a comment that is also long like the other comments
So what I'm talking about is how Valve should just give TF2 to another developer or the community so that valve won't be shitting on us tf2 fans
And I know that valve will keep the game aslong as it gives them more $$$ so that makes valve greedy and that also makes my comment long and now I can go to bed and rethink my life choices. Bye bye 💀
You’re so lame
for new gamemodes, I've always liked the idea of a tug-of-war based gamemode where a payload's in the middle of the map and pushable by both teams.
I can FEEL the chokepoints.
Actually, scratch that
It's not gonna be a chokepoint,
It's a full on choke.
Literally JUST choke.
@@NineBulletRevolver thay could be fixed with a 3 capture points system, your team has to control 2 of 3 to push the cart, 3 of 3 and it gets an speed bonus
I think I've seen such a map before. "Dogbread" or something
Push mode from Overwatch 2
Been a few plr maps with that gimmick
I remember back in the day before the huge UI change the TF2 menu got I'd play the testing tab all the time for the gamemode where you destroyed robots and stuff and it was fun as heck, same with the payload map that it had. It was fun too because you got to see the map get more developed as time went on, really wish they brought that back.
RIP Cactus Canyon
rd_asteroid was a ton of fun back in those days, I remember playing it during that era as well.
I like how having a fireball spell in normal gameplay is too much but at the same time random crits exist
of course many people argue that random crits are too much for normal gameplay
Imagine being able to store a cow mangler right click , that's the fireball spell
@@thisisnotaustin1 it slightly is, imagine the circumstances where a demoman gets a crit sticky on cart push, kinda not nice
@@thisisnotaustin1 because it's a retarded and unfair mechanic that might have had a place in tf2 when the game only had 6 maps
But this isn't 2007 anymore. There's no reason for them to exist now.
One you can control and the other you can't. You can also reflect crits but not spells.
Though only briefly mentioned, item sets are the main thing I wish were used better. Yes, the old Polycount sets were P2W, but you could, for instance, make crafting recipes for the related cosmetics so everyone has a chance to get them. At the very least I'd like to see the sets actually function cohesively together since a lot of them don't anymore. (As an example, the Shortstop used to give you extra healing which paired nicely with the Mad Milk to help you stay alive, but they removed that in favor of the completely worthless shove.)
There was 0 reasons why they couldn't just make the set bonuses from weapons only. Demoman had a weapons only set bonus (even tho he did have a hat that was made for the set, it wasn't part of the set bonus for some reason)
I would just be happy seeing calling cards. Do item creators make them and Valve just ignores it or has nobody bothered since the initial batch?
i really like how the saharan spy set does this unique sandstorm effect when taunting with all the items. such things and calling cards would incentivize buying sets more which valve would appreciate.
there are crafting recipes for related cosmetics. it requires 4 refined metal and a weapon from the set and you get a cosmetic from the set
@@beanslinger2it’s Fabricate set headgear. It uses ANY weapon from a set. It also creates cosmetics that are not hats but are a part of the set. I think valve should bring back item sets but make it where each set offers a slight bonus to a specific play style of that weapon. A good example of a set bonus:
Backburner, Thermal thruster, Hot hand. Causes your thermal thruster to recharge 20% faster.
Remember when the grappling hook was first added it was literally just a hook you held in your hand?
And for some reason it used the crossbow needle whenever it landed on a surface
I completely forgot about that!
2:08 "they're basically an instant win button if you use 'em properly."
Nice job, you described most TF2 weapons.
Okay, so, hear me out. Medieval mode but with halloween spells. Thank me later.
this literally happened in the latest scream fortress. foretold the future
@@comradeagony4450 I did say to thank me later lol
I miss the one you know… updates
same it's just so sad
That isnt wasted potential thats just wasted hope
It'd be amazing if there was a Capture the Point map that would take place in a giant forest that utilizes the grappling hook to traverse.
TF2 and Wasted Potential are pretty much synonymous at this point.
It's fascinating to see how Mannpower or even Territorial Control (Hydro) had a lot of effort put into them only to fall flat. I wonder if their many failed experiments kind of discouraged what used to be of the TF2 team from continuing to work on the game/creating trulty ~new~ content. Interesting video!
Shadow spell is broken when it was first introduced because you can teleport out of bounds
Is that why it's not on any other map?
Would have loved to see the MVM Item Upgrade mechanic incorporated into a PVP gamemode - powerups would have to be dumbed down from what they are currently for obvious balance reasons, but I think the idea of getting money on kill or confirming kill to make yourself more power, similar to a MOBA would be fun as hell
Ehhh there's some huge issues with that. It's a snowball mechanic that requires you stay in a match for long periods of time. So now you've made a casual mode that demands a very serious commitment, because the mode simply doesn't work if you let people join mid match or leave mid match. This would throttle it's likely already small userbase.
It was originally actually it was a game mode called bounty/raid that evolved/merged into what we jnow today for mvm
A nerfed variant of the grappling hook should be something that the Spy has access to.
I imagine it as a revolver with 3 shots, and when you right click you don't actually get to cloak, but you fire off a grappling hook that has limited range and can only be used once in a while.
Would make playing as a spy much more interesting.
Engineer's buildings have massive wasted potential.
His PDA slot is devoid of anything else you can equip in it other than different qualities of stock.
We could've had amplifiers, mini-dispensers, jump pads, speed pads or who knows what else,
and all we have are mini sentries, and you can't even equip the pip-boy in the PDA slot.
I think that if grapple hooks were added they could be an all class secondary that has a range of 1000 hammer units and can only be used every 20 seconds.
aw hell yeah hooknight
no
*bonus ducks*
Passtime is the best gamemode
yes exactly it has the biggest maps to play and its so cool to throw the ball around and jump with these pads
@@istoleyunomilesbigmac I especially like the small mini map that shows where everyone is
Scream Fortress 2014 imprinted the words "Bonus Ducks!" forever into my mind. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
I love how much depth TF2 has, you can never run out of things to try, sadly many of them like replays, arena mode and that whole alien invasion plotline are tragically underused and basically don't exist, but even things like DeGrootKeep having a unique chat system that puts all text into medieval speak is so cool.
One idea I've had for years regarding a few maps like Doublecross is that they could fill the abyss bellow the second bridge with water and make a hidden underwater tunnel bellow that gave an extra entryway into the intel area, Honestly Water is such an underutilized area of TF2 which is a shame considering how fun it can be, I really hope if we ever get a revival of TF2 that we start seeing new map mechanics and utilization of space.
3:31 Yes. ABILITY, drastically reduces movement speed and grapple speed.
5:20 "Numerous Mannpower updates" haHA you mean the 3 that came over a year a go??? ... yeah, I guess when we're so starved for updates that is a lot... :C
I wish that the grappling hook had more use it was really fun.
I also think that the magic spells should just have their own gamemode that you can play at anytime.
1:28 **teleports behind you**
Nothing personnel kid
1:20 i mean, there are a lot of things in TF2 that can oneshot light classes.
Yeah mannpower DEFINITELY one of the most underused mechanic, seriously it's the only niche gamemode that still even got updated (well it has been what 1 year since the last update). I honestly never play mannpower but maybe i'll give it try
Okay you know what, all alternative gamemode ARE underappreciated. If only they ever got some appreciation from valve
hello world
today is the worst i have been feeling since 2015
help.
have a nice day
Why?
What hapenned?
@@meepic2553 Last month has been an emotional rollecoaster, love life is fucking tiring, man
@@TechPriestFred yeah true man, recently broke up too but chin up ya can get trough this
god damn you hit me with a force of nostalgia when you brought up the duck journal. its crazy how its been 9 years since end of the line.
Robot Destruction seems like a great mode and Asteroid is a good map (Ignoring all of the missing textures), would love to see you make a video about it
3:12
Ok, I'm an engineer main
my new favorite powerups are
resistance (new)
and accuracy (original)
6:37 - 6:50 This in-depth explanation of the duck journal system makes this retrospective on End of the Line really funny to me.
Also SEVEN YEARS. IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS. OH GOD.
"fire damage does't come into play"
the entire class dedicated to fire damage: :(
Can we talk about Arena mode? It used to be *EVERYWHERE*, I couldn't get away from it. Then it just vanished, overnight.
I know a arena mode discord server. I can give you server link if you want.
also it sucks that shadow leap was used so much for map breaking with its teleport that it got removed from the spell list for other non helltower maps
2:33 I had a similar thought once. I ended up making a new class around casting spells. I called her "the Caster" and she had a revolver, spellbook, and staff. She'd use the spellbook to select spells she casts with right click, or press B to quickly cycle between them, and she has a mana counter that refills over time and starts with 50 mana. in addition to costing mana, spells also have cooldowns
As for the spells themselves, I gave her most base Halloween spells, one rare spell, and 2 Mannpower powerups tweaked to also affect nearby teammates: Bat Swarm, Stealth, and Regeneration all have short cooldowns and low costs, Fireball, Blast Jump, and Strength have medium cooldowns and costs, and Meteor Shower, Shadow Leap, and Overheal have long cooldowns and costs, with Overheal specifically costing all 200 mana.
I even made a few unlocks for her secondary slot, such as a summoning circle that works like Engineer's build PDA but summons mini-bosses, and a deck of cards that you draw random spells based on Ghost Fort and Carnival of Carnage, and you'd have to play the full deck before you can re-cast any spells (meaning you'd have to cast bad/useless spells). Might make another one based on Mannpower, as well as come up with MVM upgrades for her.
Halloween spells are deadass the most fun I've ever had in this game. I still remember playing for *hours* on end on helltower back when it was first added, it was so much fun
on the topic of Spells, a while ago I was brainstorming ideas for a hypothetical Team Fortress 3(which in turn had spun off ideas I had about doing a TF2 inspired Tabletop RPG), with the assumption that it'd have a new cast of characters for it's classes, since things would necessarily need to be streamlined but I didn't want to just toss out some of the more interesting things TF2 evolved in it's arsenal I ended up deciding to spin off some of the "subclasses" in TF2 into being their own classes, so things like Huntsman Sniper, Demo-Knight, possibly even Gunslinger Engineer would become full separate classes of their own(kind of like how Killing Floor 2 split up the Commando and Sharpshooter perks from KF1 into Commando & SWAT and Sharpshooter & Gunslinger), this in turn led me to contemplate a couple entirely new classes, most I never got around to fleshing out much(vague ideas about an Australian/Berserker class in the vein of Saxton Hale or that old Rabid Heavy SFM video, or a rejiggering of the Civilian as a team support class with a bit more gunplay mixed in), but I did put some more thoughts into a Wizard class, that would use an expanded version of the Halloween Spells system for it's attacks and abilities(as well as some of the stuff Merasmus and the Bombinomicon can do on some maps)
I ended up losing most of the notes I had on the concept a while ago, but I still think the idea has some potential
On the topic of Mannpower Power-ups and Spells, I feel like having a few specific maps for each regular mode that happens to have a few OP abilities like this would be just fine, since they'll show up occasionally but not really shake up the entire meta of the base-game when it's just like "well now we're playing the crazy map"
I would like to see medieval mvm, where you and the robots are locked into medieval rules
Did you know that
Haste + cowmangler = infinite spam at an incredible speed and less downtime between charge shots
“Being able to one-shot light classes is a bit too OP“
*cough* direct hit *cough*
Spells:
A player emits a particle effect to denote their spell. Ghastly overheal which should be significantly different to the regular overheal particle, for the uber heal. Purple lines for the jump. Bats for the bats. A pack of dynamite pumpkin or something for the mirv. ETC.
Also, make it a set equip. You can only choose one spell at a time, and picking up spellbooks give you 1 use of that spell.
Fun fact, the jump heals you a little, for fall damage compensation.
Mannpower:
Tone down powerups, make them select-on-spawn, or resupply locked, like the fecking caber for some reason why are the caber and the razorback the only consumable items that don't recharge
Give the classes maybe three styles of hook. Sharp Hook - default with slightly less mobility - maybe it's slower in shoot and reel, maybe it doesn't do as much damage as base mannpower, and probably only spy, engineer, and uhh... sniper. Slim hook, base hook speeds but only for scout, maybe spy, pyro? engi? Grapple Harpoon, for Heavy, Soldier, Demo, it goes loonngggg but maybe it arcs just a little, but it reels you in SPEEDY but it doesn't work if you hit a player, since it should be for terrain. Don't give the inescapable bleed to everyone, don't give hypermobility to the heavy, etc.
Duck Journel: *Exists*
Me who has been playing TF2 since 2015 at the earliest: *Coughs* "SAY WHAT!?"
2:25 they already are
Some of the most fun I have in TF2 is in Mannpower, CTF_Hellfire especially. When you've got the right loadout with the right powerup on the right team you can go on genuinely stupid killstreaks.
Shame that Valve added a mechanic that punishes the players going on killstreaks by nerfing their powerups and marking them for death until they stop doing so well. The debuff doesn't even go away upon dying. That's usually my call to leave the game.
2:30 you also have to consider that they add the scout stealing them all
So THAT'S why I saw ya in Gorge awhile ago ;) Glad you included Mannpower's nutty mechanics in the video. Powerups and Grapples certainly add a new spin to TF2 and really create their own style/meta
4:57 i would love seeing that in an animation, just some scout tackling a soldier dozens of feet… hitting him repetitly with a fish
Why
does
the King power-up
look like
a GOD
DAMN
Q U E E N
If I'm correct, the duck journal's quack can still be heard even when you're dead and spectating a player.
The spells are kind of like rereating the TFC grenades sounds like, even with having trick jumps.
Stuff I’d love in future TF2 stuff…
1. TFC mode, which adds things like grenades and armor and whatnot.
2. Proper utilization of physics objects, flashlights and the Use key
3. Mobility Gels on an Aperture-themed map
4. Maps with background music a la Unreal Tournament
A change that could be for the spells is that you have to go to your last slot to be able to cast a spell. While you have a spell ready, it could show different colors or different particle effects to explain what spell you have to players.
Grapple hooks were so fun back in the days with spiderman theme playlist
well the manpower mode is basically valve take on the classical quake ctf with the grapple hook and the power ups
No one here is talking about Saxton Hales melee mechanics where you can climb up walls if you use them
There is actually another very rare gamemode that is only used on one map, its the free for all 3 points controll points mode on standin, it has no official name standin is the only map that has it.
Grappling hooks are FAST. It's you hold down jump and the grapple button and hook along a wall, you can go faster than just grappling once and holding it.
the words "robot destruction" brought a tear to my eye..... god i miss it
For some of these modes (Duck most notably), my suspicion is that it was a test bed for a mechanic like this in other game. That's why it was not supported - deployed on servers for just long enought to get data on high population game.
There's actually this really cool feature called "Updates" that's *really* rare nowadays
To add on with the grapple, it gets used quite often in community servers. So having that amound of commands to customize it is useful
Underused mechanics in TF2 have always been a strange case to me.
I miss rd_asteroid…
I loved stealing the enemy core and scampering back to your own base to capture it.
I think the spells are fine! (If not a little underused). But it is a Halloween only thing.
Manpower mode is underplayed now but back in the day it was super fun. Nerfing them is a dumb idea as they’re not supposed to be super balanced… they’re power ups…
Passtime has always been underplayed
Fun fact: Hightower's teleport spell is JUST like the ender pearl. It also damages enemies on impact. Doesn't damage you, though..
Both of those video ideas sound awesome. If you do the gamemodes, I'd recommend making some changes to Territory Control (most notably, making the path blockers change dynamically like forward spawn and gates, rather than sending everyone to spawn. The map thing would be shrunk and put at the bottom of the screen as well as placed inside spawn rooms.) This should make the gamemode significantly less disorientating.
Between powerups and grappling hooks, I honestly think Mannpower has enough cool ideas for its own game (assuming both are balanced properly).
The power ups could be part of a juggernaut map; it’s everyone against the Juggernaut, who has buffs to make them more powerful than the rest - whoever lands the finishing blow becomes the new Juggernaut.
From what I've heard the reason mannpower gets balancing updates is because one of the devs plays it on occasion.
Mannpower appears to have its own playerbase much like MVM, it has regulars and also some gatekeepers, unfortunately. Either you see people destroying your team as spy with haste and absolutely zooming accross the map in like 2 grapple shots or you get clueless new players who ended up in mannpower by sheer accident.
IMO, Power Ups could be tuned down outside of mannpower and added in an additional loadout slot shere you charge it up, then gain access to the power-up for a limited time (say 5-10 seconds or so?)
The robots from Robot Destruction are definitely the most obscure, if we're counting objectives
I sunk so many hours into Mannpower, what a great gamemode. Thank you for talking about it! Love your videos :)
I wish the collectivizers wete turned into one infinite uses thing that's item agnostic.
It's so weird how many things you can ACTUALLY do in TF2 that you use like 2 times then never again
Man I love when I use the supernova.
I charge it, I grapple to the enemy, I pop it which stuns the enemy and THEN I BEAT HIM TO THE DEATH WITH A FISH
Cool Mannpower fact; The idea of grappling hooks predates Quake Team Fortress, being featured in Quake CTF before Quake Team Fortress was even realized
I like how Arena mode is so obscure it wasn't even mentioned
All year Halloween maps would be really nice. Maybe if valve kept 5 maps all year and changed the 5 each Halloween?
I think spells could be used as a rechargeable secondary slot for most classes, much like the gas passer or soldier backpacks in standard play
The Mannpower powerups could be temporary buffs used like the Soda Popper's jump enhancer, with alt-fire or middle mouse activating the perk on the weapon
Grappling Hook is hugely OP with it's mobility, honestly think it should be on a timer like the Thermal Thruster and restricted to maybe one class... Perhaps Soldier... the other classes either don't need it or like heavy or engie would be able to capitalize on the mobility too well
Out of all the obscure game modes that’s popular is Medieval but personally my favorite is Maanpower
It's my first time playing Scream Fortress and I can say I really love Spells
I had never in my entire life heard about Gyroscoping, this looks so interesting and cool
I love Mannpower. Not because I like the gamemode, but because the first tf2 map I made was a mannpower map because I hadn't yet realized that a map doesn't need a special entity to be a ctf map unlike Mannpower. It was also my first time actually making a map in hammer at all, obviously the map was awful. The spawn rooms literally took up around 25% of the map, the only path to the flag went right past the spawn doors, and I hadn't yet figured out team filters, so anyone could just walk into the enemy team's spawn at any moment. I said I'd make it better, yet I have not even played on the map since 2020 and I think I deleted it from the workshop.
A lot of the neat modes aren't used because majority of people only give a shit about payload.
I'd love to see medieval mode get new maps.
For a lonf period of my Tf2 gaming life, like to 6 years ago from whenever I had started; I used to only play Manpower, I loved the grapple and wasn't confident in the movement and shooting mechanics of the game and power ups could even the playing field for me against some experienced players. Even now it's refreshing to hop onto the mode from time to time!
I really don't like the grappling hooks in mannpower, i mean sure its fun to zip around at high speeds but trying to deal with trickstabbing spy is rage inducing levels of salt
would be cool to see the mann powerups though, heavy with Accuracy and a brass beast turns him into a long range sniper
man this dude got all the good games, BTD6, KSP, HL2, OatBF, RoA, etc.
I have never once gotten shadow leap. Out of all my years playing tf2 during Halloween. Didn't even know that existed.
i've spent hours digging the tf2wiki for maps, and environmental deaths it's such an underrated subject, thanks for the video big blue guy!!
"Being able to one-shot light classes is way too powerful"
*Laughs in lvl 3 sentry*
Valve's game honestly has so much going for it, medievil mode for instance is so fun but funnily enough it suffers most from lack of care given to classes, you either go Sniper, Medic if you have the Crusader's Crossbow Heavy, but more often than not Demoman, and sometimes spy if you're good at it and maybe a scout if you feel like throwing a mad milk. But imagine how much more fun it could be if maps were built around demomen charge's or even how interesting new medieval engineer building would be with a catiult replacement for the teleportor or a Ballista that the engineer has to aim himself and a cooler which a engineer fills by using metal so it can heal players forcing him to just go out and have to actually either gather metal or rewarding him for getting kills, it could also be refilled with heavy's sandvitch's. Serioulsy though tons of classes could have simple stuff added to them to fit the mode no matter how basic and with the addition of maps that incorporate other game modes like paylod or capture the flag. The whole thing could be it's own update honestly and Valve has tons of stuff like this in other modes, why don't they just rake in the cash?