This conversation was in the top 5 best ❤thank you. The things he says about anger and hatred and resentment 🎉and what you all discuss after was paramount to my life ❤
I have been duped many times in my life and know what hatred is. Like love it comes from the heart, and can be totally ruthless. It is not necessarily permanent, as the cause of the hatred can be someone who has a severe misunderstanding about you, and the hatred will dissolve with the misunderstanding. And I am not sure whether it is always a projection, as people can be evil to you.
I was surprised that in the dream interpretation you were all united in giving a negative tint to the apprenticeship. One might think instead that she had passed a test in not fearing the snakes (she said she "knew" they wouldn't harm her), that that was part of her admittance as an apprentice to the master, which could be seen as an initiation. To me it all depends on how the dreamer felt about the apprenticeship.
I loved this episode and at the same time I noticed one facet of hate that was missing. What about the kid who gets bullied, a person who gets treated truly unfairly again and again (i.e. racism, sexism etc.). They will probably develop hatred at some point or at least a strong desire to retaliate. Or is that not hate? The hated becomes the hater.
Hatred is not an emotion it seems, upon observation it is a restraining and holding in of doing excess harm or allowing of unbridled rage to overtake one's impulses and lash out at the world. The result is like drinking poison, it is a slow sinking into thoughts and intentions at first ment to dissipate the stress of agitation, but because thought is attached to emotion, thought inevitably perpetuates the emotion to continue to stir, until the thoughts themselves also begin to become negative as a result of the futility of holding in that stress instead of releasing it. This becomes a resentment, which slowly begins to dull the mind and conduce it to paranoia and latter depression and neurosis. We in the west are taught to identify with thought and emotion rather than practicing detachment. And as a result have devoloped late the understanding that thought forms cannot control or cancel out another thought form. It is attention and awareness that can bring one out of neurosis. By focusing on awareness of breathing or other sources of influence, the neurosis slowly fades, but to truly heal from neurosis, one innevitably has to face ones inner shadow left supressed and learn to feel into and understand these feelings with time and growth and patience for ones understanding to come with development and learning. Hatred is not born of an intent to put down others, but out of a lack of love for oneself and a predation on other's emotional attachment for attention and to validate the experience of negative circumstances, thus perpetuating and resulting in a repetition and fetishisation for the state of validation one gets from dragging others down. It is a snuffing out of the light of awareness in others momentarilly. It is a lack of affection for the world for feeling lack inwardly of love and compassion for oneself that breeds hatred.
Hatred comes from fears; fears from insecurities. Since is an internal primal “Beast” condition, the person the hatred is towards, who is dehumanized, might have nothing at all to do with the hatred. It’s just particular archetypal insecurities that activate the hatred.
There’re a couple of aspects in astrology dubbed “Me against you”; the 90° square and 180° opposition between Sun and Pluto. Major projections where hatred manifests when the Ego image is challenged. Pluto possesses to protect the being and try to reestablish the Ego image.
Enjoyed and shaken (as I will get) by this talk; thank you. During your discussion on hate, as it related to soldiers being the arbiters of the government's hatred, I didn't hear greed, but it came across the nut in my skull. I think of greed as potentially feelings such as: lack (neediness), seeking power (weakness), hoarding (fear), but think and feel it to be a different emotion or "construct", than hatred. I appreciate your collective initial defining of "hatred" interaction; as words can be....are, well, it is appreciated. I wonder your thoughts on this, as I am aware of the complicated nature of interrelationships between emotional states, and thus the REAL impetus for action/inaction is hard to knowingly decipher. I mean, the politicians that determine war to be the mechanism, is it hatred that THEY carry (or project and are acting out of fear, or greed? I suppose the soldier at war must act with hatred towards the enemy, whether they initially feel that way, or were simply looking for a way to go to college, once the shooting has begun. But does the drone-flyer? Are those people at all, or is it just a perpetuation of the video games played through earlier life? High-fives, in the latter case.
Thank you. I have a sister who projects her hatred onto me. I am a mental health professional yet it is still very painful. She continues on her happy path and I am heartbroken. She is all about control. I pray she will become conscious but since we are now in our 60’s, i am doubtful. She is proud of her fierceness. I am shaken and grief stricken. Man’s inhumanity to man. Will it ever end?
Luke 14:26. Making hatred conscious that, hopefully, one does not come to dehumanize the outsiders. “ “If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”
Never thought about this passage from Luke in that way, but I can see how it can be interpreted as making hate conscious. I always read it as a hyperbolic statement (common Semitic teaching tool) that a very strong preference for the spiritual life has to be developed before one can consciously walk the spiritual path in a more committed way. Having written that, I can see how re both interpretations may lead to the same result, that is, seeking the Kingdom of God first! Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you for this very illuminating episode. As for the dream -- the older wise man and his young female apprentice: Have you considered a connection to the tale of Merlin and Vivien, as related in „Idylls of the King“ by Alfred Tennyson? There Vivien, seducing Merlin to gain his knowledge, is compared to a snake, the arch-seducer. But why must a woman needs use her erotic attraction in order to be educated and/or initiated? This is profoundly demeaning and traps her in a role. In the dream it seems that she can only escape from that role, when a still younger and quite naive woman, the dreamer, with her sugar-coating understanding of things, turns up to take her place.
I HATED THIS !?#(..& THEME! Just kidding! Thanks for a patient and probative parsing out of a poisonous contagion while looking at its place in the pantheon. Thanks so much.
Hi, haven't listened to this yet, but I'm thinking it's not quite what I was seeking. I want to hear something about race (ism). The one I found was from 2 years ago, and things have gotten worse for black people in particular. The violent rhetoric, and the dismissive response to physical violence against people perceived to be left, i.e Pelosi's husband's recent assault....I know Jung wrote about the connection to Wotan and fascism. Would like to hear something...deeper, more connected to the Collective Unconscious (?) because what's happening is neither rational nor (fully) conscious. Black woman over 50 if u all keep stats on viewership.
We're planning an episode on Power and Love, which Jung wrote about. That will touch on the rising tide of 'power over'. There's so much more to say than feels possible. Please keep your voice strong and clear! ~ Joseph
Abstract The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/
Joseph's analogy to a man living in the basement is so apt and helpful. The shadow is UNKNOWN.
Lots of golden nuggets in this one. Worth reflecting on as our cultural and political discourse becomes more hateful.
This conversation was in the top 5 best ❤thank you.
The things he says about anger and hatred and resentment 🎉and what you all discuss after was paramount to my life ❤
This was beyond interesting - I want to send it to everyone and I want to listen again and again. Thank you. 💛
Please do!
I have been duped many times in my life and know what hatred is. Like love it comes from the heart, and can be totally ruthless. It is not necessarily permanent, as the cause of the hatred can be someone who has a severe misunderstanding about you, and the hatred will dissolve with the misunderstanding. And I am not sure whether it is always a projection, as people can be evil to you.
I was surprised that in the dream interpretation you were all united in giving a negative tint to the apprenticeship. One might think instead that she had passed a test in not fearing the snakes (she said she "knew" they wouldn't harm her), that that was part of her admittance as an apprentice to the master, which could be seen as an initiation. To me it all depends on how the dreamer felt about the apprenticeship.
This podcast is gold..I feel so lucky I discovered you!!
I loved this episode and at the same time I noticed one facet of hate that was missing. What about the kid who gets bullied, a person who gets treated truly unfairly again and again (i.e. racism, sexism etc.). They will probably develop hatred at some point or at least a strong desire to retaliate. Or is that not hate? The hated becomes the hater.
Hatred is not an emotion it seems, upon observation it is a restraining and holding in of doing excess harm or allowing of unbridled rage to overtake one's impulses and lash out at the world. The result is like drinking poison, it is a slow sinking into thoughts and intentions at first ment to dissipate the stress of agitation, but because thought is attached to emotion, thought inevitably perpetuates the emotion to continue to stir, until the thoughts themselves also begin to become negative as a result of the futility of holding in that stress instead of releasing it. This becomes a resentment, which slowly begins to dull the mind and conduce it to paranoia and latter depression and neurosis. We in the west are taught to identify with thought and emotion rather than practicing detachment. And as a result have devoloped late the understanding that thought forms cannot control or cancel out another thought form. It is attention and awareness that can bring one out of neurosis. By focusing on awareness of breathing or other sources of influence, the neurosis slowly fades, but to truly heal from neurosis, one innevitably has to face ones inner shadow left supressed and learn to feel into and understand these feelings with time and growth and patience for ones understanding to come with development and learning.
Hatred is not born of an intent to put down others, but out of a lack of love for oneself and a predation on other's emotional attachment for attention and to validate the experience of negative circumstances, thus perpetuating and resulting in a repetition and fetishisation for the state of validation one gets from dragging others down. It is a snuffing out of the light of awareness in others momentarilly. It is a lack of affection for the world for feeling lack inwardly of love and compassion for oneself that breeds hatred.
Sorry, forgot to thank you for this podcast. I always get a lot out of it.
Astrologically, it’s Pluto, the most primal and possessive, Hades, force represented in that system. Mars would be the anger. Pluto dehumanizes.
Therefore, expressions of hatred are predictable.
Hatred comes from fears; fears from insecurities. Since is an internal primal “Beast” condition, the person the hatred is towards, who is dehumanized, might have nothing at all to do with the hatred. It’s just particular archetypal insecurities that activate the hatred.
There’re a couple of aspects in astrology dubbed “Me against you”; the 90° square and 180° opposition between Sun and Pluto. Major projections where hatred manifests when the Ego image is challenged. Pluto possesses to protect the being and try to reestablish the Ego image.
can you explain further or where I can find more information on this
Enjoyed and shaken (as I will get) by this talk; thank you. During your discussion on hate, as it related to soldiers being the arbiters of the government's hatred, I didn't hear greed, but it came across the nut in my skull. I think of greed as potentially feelings such as: lack (neediness), seeking power (weakness), hoarding (fear), but think and feel it to be a different emotion or "construct", than hatred. I appreciate your collective initial defining of "hatred" interaction; as words can be....are, well, it is appreciated. I wonder your thoughts on this, as I am aware of the complicated nature of interrelationships between emotional states, and thus the REAL impetus for action/inaction is hard to knowingly decipher. I mean, the politicians that determine war to be the mechanism, is it hatred that THEY carry (or project and are acting out of fear, or greed? I suppose the soldier at war must act with hatred towards the enemy, whether they initially feel that way, or were simply looking for a way to go to college, once the shooting has begun. But does the drone-flyer? Are those people at all, or is it just a perpetuation of the video games played through earlier life? High-fives, in the latter case.
Thank you. I have a sister who projects her hatred onto me. I am a mental health professional yet it is still very painful. She continues on her happy path and I am heartbroken. She is all about control. I pray she will become conscious but since we are now in our 60’s, i am doubtful. She is proud of her fierceness. I am shaken and grief stricken. Man’s inhumanity to man. Will it ever end?
So good~
Luke 14:26. Making hatred conscious that, hopefully, one does not come to dehumanize the outsiders.
“
“If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.”
Never thought about this passage from Luke in that way, but I can see how it can be interpreted as making hate conscious. I always read it as a hyperbolic statement (common Semitic teaching tool) that a very strong preference for the spiritual life has to be developed before one can consciously walk the spiritual path in a more committed way. Having written that, I can see how re both interpretations may lead to the same result, that is, seeking the Kingdom of God first! Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you for this very illuminating episode. As for the dream -- the older wise man and his young female apprentice: Have you considered a connection to the tale of Merlin and Vivien, as related in „Idylls of the King“ by Alfred Tennyson? There Vivien, seducing Merlin to gain his knowledge, is compared to a snake, the arch-seducer. But why must a woman needs use her erotic attraction in order to be educated and/or initiated? This is profoundly demeaning and traps her in a role. In the dream it seems that she can only escape from that role, when a still younger and quite naive woman, the dreamer, with her sugar-coating understanding of things, turns up to take her place.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Pricked and bleeding? Isn't first blood also sexual initiation for a female virgin?
Very interesting metaphor.
Something to think about? Who are you ?
I HATED THIS !?#(..& THEME! Just kidding! Thanks for a patient and probative parsing out of a poisonous contagion while looking at its place in the pantheon. Thanks so much.
🤣
Hi, haven't listened to this yet, but I'm thinking it's not quite what I was seeking. I want to hear something about race (ism). The one I found was from 2 years ago, and things have gotten worse for black people in particular. The violent rhetoric, and the dismissive response to physical violence against people perceived to be left, i.e Pelosi's husband's recent assault....I know Jung wrote about the connection to Wotan and fascism. Would like to hear something...deeper, more connected to the Collective Unconscious (?) because what's happening is neither rational nor (fully) conscious. Black woman over 50 if u all keep stats on viewership.
We're planning an episode on Power and Love, which Jung wrote about. That will touch on the rising tide of 'power over'. There's so much more to say than feels possible. Please keep your voice strong and clear! ~ Joseph
Abstract
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/
VERY interesting. Thank you for sharing this resource!