One of the best descriptions of HD that I've ever heard. "The bike for non-bikers". What I find highly irritating about HD riders is that they will not wave at another biker unless it's another HD. I hold off on waving at oncoming bikes until I can confirm that they not an HD. Over priced, heavy, underpowered, and not even made in the USA that much. They closed a plant in Kansas City, York Pennsylvania and Memomonee Falls Wisconsin and opened one in Brazil for crying out loud! And a lot of their components are made overseas.
One point that you omitted was that the Kawasaki 900 and the CBX are both staggeringly Beautiful...their minor Flaws can be overlooked for that reason alone. good video ...Thank you.
It’s not really about their looks though is it, or their flaws either It’s about inflated reputations and prices. I wouldn’t really say the CBX was beautiful though if I’m honest
@@bikerdood1100 Oh but it is. That engine, and six exhaust pipes, compensates the otherwise rather staid lines. And it looks better than the Benelli sei.
@@spad5497 well I’m first an foremost an Italian bike man so nahhh Also I’m something of a V twin guy so lots of pipes just feels like over compensating.
The Fat Boy is a great motorcycle to cruise comfortably on open roads of a motorcycle. It was really not made for the tiny and winding roads of European cities, for that I’d rather ride a Vespa...
I meant “to cruise comfortably on the open roads of America”. Besides that, what you need in this kind of motorcycle is torque, not final power as it’s not at all comfortable to ride at over 100mph, it’s made to cruise at 80mph. You have to analyze it for considering what it’s made for.
@@bikerdood1100 Sure, but the Fat Boy can turn well enough if you have reasonable riding skills, it’s just that in the US you have more space and a lot of big and long straight roads which the fat boy and all the other Harley big twins are primarily made for.
The 750ss was derived from the machine used by Paul Smart and Bruno Spaggiari at Imola to leave all the Japanese competitors behind. A few years later it was Mr. Hailwood's turn to blow away the Japanese at the Isle of Man TT. Was there a significant difference in build quality between the racers and their roadgoing ancestors?
Well funny you should mention the racers, I read an interview with one of the guys who prepared Hailwoods bike for the TT and they had to do an incredible amount of work to make the bike capable of completing a TT and Hailwood nursed the bike in the later laps.
@@bikerdood1100 The bevels also failed as it crossed the finish line. I got into an online argument with Patrick Slinn who prepared Hailwood's bike. I made the same statement you have, about the bike requiring a lot of work to be viable, he stated that this was untrue. Go figure (as the Amiricans say)
The Hailwood bike had almost no standard components from a road bike, so it's another subject. As for the Smart/Spaggiari bikes, they had a grand total of ONE major win, so....
@@bikerdood1100 I was there it was the hondas that broke down There wasn’t much nursing of that Ducati The reason they (steve Wynne Sports motorcycles) had to do so much work was because Ducatis sent them a pretty tired NCR bike Saying the 750/900ss is overrated is like saying a Turner painting is overrated because its not as colour accurate as an iphone photo Apart from all that well put together video 👍
Well I can only take on board the interview I read with the Guy who peeped Hailwoods bike and it took a tremendous amount of work to get that bike anywhere near ready. The victory says an awful lot more about Hailwood than the Ducati. There was an awful lot more to it than oh they gave hailwood a worn out bike Being a spectator doesn’t prove a great deal it’s like saying that I was an the British GP in 86 so I obviously have a better understanding about what it took to get Mansells car prepped than someone who was not Clearly nonsense. I have no more idea of the work involved than the next man. So if one of the guys intermittently involved in the event gives his account I’m much more likely to listen to him than one of the spectators. Or does that seem in someway unreasonable? I am extremely fond of Turner as a mater of fact My favourite painting of his is yeh Fighting Temeraire What a yours. Don’t say your used JMWs name in vain just to make some point about IPhones 🙄 Oh those rose tinted specs
The 750ss was hen's teeth in the UK, the follow on 900ss barely more common. I remember Bike magazine reviewing one in the UK - they borrowed one owned by the landlord/owner of The Yorkist pub in Doncaster. Proved it really did exist, Mick Walker of Kings Lynn seemed to be the almost monopoly dealer of Italian bikes in the late 70s / early 80s - Ducati, Guzzi, and maybe Laverda who actually became almost popular at the time. Want a late 70s Italian? Maybe a V50
I did enjoy the video, and agreed with your assessments of the heavy, grossly overpriced agricultural geriatric vibrators from Milwaukee. But seriously, never ride a bike without gear, especially gloves.
@@bikerdood1100 Cool. I agree. One hot summer, possibly 1976, I did ride my gorgeous candy orange Honda CB250G5 in just a T shirt and jeans on the M1 to cool down 😜🙄 Then I was overtaken by a GIRL on a big Kawasaki!! I have no idea what model because she was only wearing jeans and a black bra - and a BIG SMILE!! 😁😂👀 As I get older, I do sometimes wonder if I only dreamed that scene. But no, it really happened. We raced for a while (I don’t remember much traffic), then I slowed down, and she waved to me then rode off in the fast lane. No one believed me back then, and they still don’t. It’s just jealousy. 🧐😎😜 Ride safe. Peace
In defense of the bevel SS Ducatis, they were a fabulous riding experience with urgent power and sure, graceful handling. They did require constant attention, but once sorted they could be very reliable. I had a 750 GT while I was working as a mechanic at a Ducati importers. It was a 2-valve non-desmo and had enough power to do damage. I spent some happy idle time refining the electrics, return spring on the shift lever and other minor things. It was a joy to own. Sure the SS bikes when looked at today can be overrated in comparison to modern bikes, but you can't take away the universal visceral experience of riding such exotic machines. That's why the are valued highly
Remember the video isn’t saying they’re bad But it’s more about the pedestal people put them on. A non Desmo model would cost less but after offer basically the same experience and be less trouble to boot. There’s an obsession with very specific models these days that fetch ludicrous prices beyond their real world worth.
Well assessed and explained. Beware the R90S. I had a relative who had one and when he checked it, it wasn't. It was a 900 with the extra bits. The Italian bikes were and are glorious to look at. The styling and execution is mind blowing and if it wasn't for the Electrical suppliers trying to emulate Lucas, I would have one.
Like a lot of these bikes they are very easy to fake. Probably more Le Mans mk1s than ever left the factory still on y the road, that’s the problem with expensive icons it becomes another way to rip people off
I was gearing up for my ultimate back then, a R100RS, and opted intead for a Guzzi Royale: was never disappointed. The electrics were Bosch. The Cali as shown above was a 1400 and not an 1100.......as I'm sure most realised.
I ride a1976 Ducati she still has the original ignition system and it still works perfectly. The rest of the bike has been rewired and it even works in the rain!
Wow; in 1970 I wanted the new 750 ss with its sinuously curvaceous engine covers. So beautiful, so Italian. Now I'm pleased I couldn't possibly have afforded it!! Such an interesting and informative series from yourself. 👍 Peter
Maybe a 50 cal machine gun could give you a bigger grin than a Desmo 900 , but I don't think so . Which would fall apart first , not sure , but look at what else was about at the time which had speed , brakes and particularly handling . Nought from Japan , some from the UK and Italy . No wonder the Desmos are expensive , so are the Norton's .......
@@davidyendoll5903 I’d get a belt drive more modern Ducati myself, it’s better to gat where your going. There aren’t many bikes that don’t make me grin, except a 50cc maybe. I’m English so no guns for me thanks
I paid $109 (Australian) for my 1978 MV Agusta Monza, a 750SS (Ducati) is about twice that much and hard to find at that price. I've seen Imola Replica (AKA Green Frame) advertised for a quarter of a million (no joke). 900SS are cheaper, the reason? See my (somewhat long winded) comment above)
I bought the first, and only 750 sold in Jacksonville. It was two years old, and nobody wanted it. Melba, the lady that owned the triumph shop made me a sweet deal on it. It was the finest handling bike Ive ever threw a leg over. I still regret selling it.
I owned a 79 Ducati 900SS. In the black and gold it was a fantastic looking machine with a lovely finish if looked after. A truly special bike to ride, a proper big V twin engine with the soundtrack to match through its Conti pipes. How I wish I'd kept that one!
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned two-strokes. They are great bikes and can be reasonably reliable if maintained but if you mean over-priced rather more than over-rated, prices have gone really silly. £5000-8000 for a 45mph FS1E? Come on. Yamaha RD twins fetching £5000-10000. They are great fun but you cannot justify these prices, I would have to walk away as I could have two or three good bikes for that money. Suzuki GT750 is a nice and civilised stroker but again, sellers are asking £10000-12000 for good ones. They are not even rare, container-loads keep arriving from the USA into places like DK Motorcycles
I’m working on a video featuring the Fizzer currently. Can only fit so many in. An earlier video does have the Mach 1 Kawasaki which didn’t go down well. People get very precious
True it was supposed to say first 4 cylinder DOHC It appears I got a bit over enthusiastic with the edit The Black bomber appeared in 65 of course and had surprisingly, top end trouble A Honda theme for all too many years
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The sound of a CBX with a six into one pipe will give you goosebumps.
Interesting list. I once ran across an ad offering a '73 Z1 for sale, said it had been in storage for thirty years, folks selling it obviously didn't know what it was worth, they were asking only $500, of course it was gone by the time I inquired.
Really enjoy your videos. Your 💯 on Harleys, I've almost purchased the HD a few times, however my subconscious kept telling that I'll be buying an overpriced pig. The last time I was in an HD dealership I was picking up my friends daughter because she had wrecked her 1200. At that time, I looked at a Buell told the salesperson I need to leave because it was time to go home. The sales manager yelled across the showroom "What your not man enough unless you ask your wife for permission?" Such a fool I've been in the car business for over 30 years. When Indian started back up again I tried to sell a couple of bikes, it was next to impossible.
@@bikerdood1100 so what!! I personally don't like Fatboy but my Honda is ways better than that HD you not a biker because you like HD!!Pathetic attitude!!
That's a nice comparison. Both a FatBoy and CD175 come with low ground clearance and quite poor suspension, so both tend to 'plough tarmac' if you want to push on a bit. I really enjoyed my CD200 but lost it as part of my divorce settlement. My ex took our best two bikes (the CD and the Katana 650) and just left me with our lackluster V50.
I agree with you on the Z1, I had the Z1R, it was gorgeous to look at, but boy it handled like a camel! the bike I had before the Z1R was a Z650, and your correct it was perfect. At the time 1983 it was the dogs b*lls, and I wish I still had it. Cheers from Notts, UK
Had a Z1R also, did not need much of a excuse to break into a tankslapper ! High speed stability was poor to say the least once the front tire had started to wear. I used to run pirelli phantoms on it but the wear rate was scary, 1000 miles on the front and 600 ish on the rear. The original 4 into 1 pipe was as restrictive as hell. This was replaced with a harris 4 into 1 works pipe & K&N filters - my god what a difference ! Kick it down from 5th to 4th gear on a wet road at 70 mph, wheelspin.......Topped it out 3 times, a whisker under 150 mph on the speedo. Got to have been a genuine 135-140 mph On the other hand i did a long distance ride from John o groats to Exeter, thats most of the length of Britain at mostly sensible speeds pulling in 60 mpg. Fastest miles i ever have done in any bike. Would i have one again ? yes, but not at the prices a good one commands now.
I totally agree with your choices. Owned a late smoke R90S,loved that bike but wrecked it in 1984. Wanted to buy another one a few years ago. Would wreck my bankaccount, so I bought a R100S. In beautiful red. Better bike, but not the looks.
Funny story... Back in the 80's I restored, allegedly, the first Z1 imported into the UK. I was banned from driving for 6 months due to my seeing speed limits as somewhat advisory. I rode the Z1 a few times and disliked it's handling and roadholding. I worked running the workshops for a well known motorcycle dealership and chopped the big Z in for a beautiful blue CBX that had originally belonged from new by one of the directors of Honda Britain who didn't like the standard colours so had the company paint hisbike in that metal flake blue Honda used in the early 80's. The Z1 I didn't really miss but the CBX was amazing fun and very very quick. I do wish I'd had a Ducati 900SS though. I believe Ducati have designed som of the most achingly gorgeous bikes ever built. I'm still looking for that cheap 748 to buy 😍
@@bikerdood1100 The prices on the 748 have sky rocketed lately. A friend had one and I couldn't find an angle it wasn't beautiful from. He offered me a go on it but I had to turn him down as I was still feeling a bit wonky from the night before lol. I really should try to find one that needs a bit of work before they're totally unaffordable.
I had two Bridgestone motorcycles one a 175cc twin and a 350cc GTR twin in the late sixties early seventies it could hold its own and more in its class. Rotary disc valves, automatic oil injection, 19inch rims and 37 hp in a 350cc, six speed transmission and controls that could reverse the side for shifting and brakes. I took the bike from Augusta Georgia to Miami Florida and was able maintain 65-70+ mph with no problems. Yes the bike was made by The Bridgestone Tire Co in Japan!
Shame for Bridgestone. The struggle to cost complete with the bigger Japanese companies and then they got pressured by the others to stop making bikes or basically we won’t buy your tyres. Given that was their core business and the bikes sold only modestly they acquiesced
Moto Guzzi’s and corners is a beautiful marriage by default. The machines are build just next to the hairpins of the Alpes (Mandello) on the borders of Lake Como. Done the Stelvio, Umbreill, and other remarkable passes with my old Guzzi cal 3. Way more agile than many other ‘fancy expensive’ bike. Lots of fun as well. Not the fastes bike on earth, but a lot of fun and reliable.
Catching up with your videos and this is another pretty accurate assessment of the reputation and value (today) of your chosen bikes. No doubting, whatsoever, the sheer beauty and magnetism of those early bevel drive Ducatis. I would put the blue and silver 900SS as quite possibly the most beautiful product bike of all. But…..I owned a Mike Hailwood Replica - brilliant handling, charismatic but unreliable. So yes, the later Pantahs lit the popular fuse and the rest is history. Those hand made BMW R90s bikes were good but overrated and I would certainly prefer any of the Le Mans bloodline (Mk 1 to 3). It’s reputation was slightly enhanced by its better turn of speed and sharper looks than their Beemer brethren….they were, after all, bought by old boys’ weren’t they? Finally, you hit the nail smack on the head centrally with your opinion of the early Z650b1 being the better all rounder than it’s bigger brother; what a bike that Z650 was, and still is, to some degree. People were sold flash, dash and glamour; of all those bikes were really as great as their marketing men would’ve had us believe.
The Kawasaki Insert Text Here. I'm not familiar with that model! Another excellent video. Good choices although I personally would pay a LOT extra for that 6 cylinder howl.
@@bikerdood1100 that's a tough call. V twin or six. The V twin has to have metal cans though. Carbon fibre whilst looking nice and being lighter just don't sound as good. I had 2000 TL 1000 S with metal Two Brothers cans. What a beautiful sounding bike.
I had a BMW R90/6. It was dressed in the later style tank and body work (which fit without modification) and had all the BMW of San Jose frame mods. It was a great bike that I rode for years. The only thing missing and I wish that it had was the second disk brake. The front brake on my R90/6 was a disappointment at best.
@@bikerdood1100 The BMW shop I worked at got their first K bikes in and my old boss threw me the keys to a K75 and said "see how you like that?" I roared off down the street, got to the corner and grabbed a handful of front brake like I did on my R90/6. I almost crashed. The bike stood on its nose and I was looking at the ground. It was shocking.
Had a 1977 Ducati Darmah, was quite quick and the looks of two KTT Velocette engines, magnificent sound from the Conti pipes. Oddly enough, pretty reliable too. The only Harley I had was a Norton featherbed with a WLA bottom motor with Matchless Ohv cylinders and heads.
The Damarh is a bit underrated when compared to the earlier 750s, which is a same as the seem to have been better put together. The Harley engined thing sounds quite the mongrel
@bikerdood1100 Italian engineering with Japanese switchgear and German ignition. An ideal combination or a mongrel nightmare? I bought my first in the late 70's and it needed a complete gearbox rebuild at 10 000 miles (by Sports Motorcycles incidentally). I bought my second in 1987 and the electrics let me down every time I rode it. Parked it in 1991 and it's still in the garage and not ridden since though I restored it a few years ago. A well known Ducati specialist on returning the engine to me described it as a hand grenade with the pin out.
I grew up in Detroit during the 60s and everybody had or wanted a muscle car. Then during the 70s along comes the "Gas Crisis" and the Z1 Kaw. Guys were selling their muscle cars and buying a Z1 and a junker to drive all winter. They could take that Kaw out on Telegraph Rd and smoke everything in sight while burning a lot less gas.
l owned a 900 SS in the late seventies. What you say is to some extent true however the Italian stallion would demand TLC, a fair degree of maintenance to keep a reliable machine. The other point is it was horrendously expensive compered to other bikes of its time. Mine was 2,200 pounds new...at the same time a Guzzi 850 Lemans was 1999 pounds Stirling!... Even the 250cc singles of the sixties were very expensive compared to larger Brit Bikes of the day. Lastly they coped better in sunnier climes...just about all Italian bikes suffered from the vagaries of British weather. The BMW R100RS, it was a brilliant concept of its day.
I offer the Benelli simply because there are so few six cylinder bikes to choose from, I’d take the four cylinder option every time to be honest We All know European bikes were expensive back in the day, but this is 2023, and the question is, if your buying them Today as a classic. In that case the price of Ducati is simply out of ,ost peoples price range.. FYI if the Ducati was more affordable id still by a Le Mans, but that’s me
The irony of 70s Ducati's with their poor electrics is that Ducati was also an electronics company in Italy. I had and restored a 82 500 Pantah, it was brilliant once I had sorted it. No charging issues, started first go on the button. However to get there needed a lot of work. Almost no power, but handled and braked well. Lots of fun.
Ducati was split after WW2 into Ducati Meccanica and Ducati Elletronica, so in the 1950s they were totally separate entities. However, later model singles (250, 350 and 450) had Ducati Elletronica ignition as did the Moto Morini at the time (3 1/2 Sport and Strada). It's not great and my 1974 450 was retrofitted to points by the previous owner; Agree with you about the Pantah, I had one and I truly regret selling it. After 4 years riding (even some touring) it still had the original fuses, not a speck of bother and a great "little" bike
@@jeffpiper7430 also office intercoms, electric shavers, radio sets, including transmitter/receiver for the military. Ducati started in 1923 making condensers (aka capacitors) for Marconi. The company was split into 2 distinct and separate entities after WW2, being Ducati Elletronica and Ducati Meccanica. The Ducati brothers were removed from control of the company by the Italian government and one of the brothers (Adriano?) went to the USA and worked on the Apollo project
Love the looks and sounds of a CBX - I can still recall the first time I ever saw one, but always thought the also very attractive "Eurostyle" CB900F was a better all-round superbike from Honda.
OK I never owned either bike but I have seen both going around The Gooseneck on the Isle of Man. The CBX seemed a bit skittish while the CB900 seemed planted.
What blows my mind is that they put ALL that work into that engine, and only made it 1000cc. It's like they wanted to fiddle around with all sorts of quirky engineering tricks to make a very Swiss-Watch-meets-Rube-Goldberg machine, but not actually make that engine spit out the horsepower that six cylinders would imply. I managed to snag a KZ1300 for myself, and while the styling is very love it or hate it, you can't fault an engine that is simple as a brick to work on (basic parts are repeated more often, but not inherently more complicated) but puts out 120hp at the crank. The CBX is a small bike wearing a lot of filigree. The KZ1300 is a cinderblock- visually boring, but capable of doing a heck of a lot of damage when it gets moving.
Agree about the Z650, had one back in the early 80's, really great bike. Good one's are quite hard to find nowadays ,most are KZ650 imports from America. Kawasaki made a mistake with their new retro Z650rs doesn't look or sound right with a water cooled parallel twin. hopefully they will put it right with their new 400cc 4 cylinder if they decide to make a retro version. I think the thing these classic bikes have over modern bikes is they have character and a soul. I have two bikes a Honda cx500 and a Moto Guzzi Bellagio and both these bikes put a smile on my face every time I ride them. I don't remember the CX feeling fast back in the late 70's early 80's but for 50bhp it seems pretty quick now, probably because I'm over 60 and everything seems fast. I would suggest trying a classic before buying a modern bike especially if you don't need to ride it everyday, it will probably cost a lot less and provide loads more enjoyment, I guess it depends on whether you feel you want to have all the modern safely aids such as ABS etc.
I think what makes the CX feel quick is that, well for me as you get older you can’t be bothered with all that gear change business and the torque of that v twin means you can power out of corner without fussing around with the gear box
Totally agree with you. I currently have a 1978 Z650 B2 and it’s a joy to ride, it still turns heads and the kids think it’s far better than the modern bikes.
To be fair, the Honda CB 450 Black Bomber had just as many camshafts and was just as much mass produced as the Z1 Kawasaki but in production 6-7 years earlier than the Kawasaki.
I’ve had too many You always love you first big bike though so I’ll say Guzzi V50, so many great memories Maybe I should put together our top ten No there’s an idea 💡
A better alternative to any bevel-drive Ducati would be the Guzzi LeMans (yes, also works for the BMW), which can easily and cheaply be made bulletproof by changing out some of the electrics/switchgear. My '78 model just passed 80K miles and is one of the most reliable and low-maintenance motorcycles I've ever owned (and I'm old enough to have owned a LOT of bikes, was even a dealer in the 1980s). The Honda CB450 predates the Z-1 by several years and had DOHC! R100RS is DRAMATICALLY better than the R90S, if not so pretty...and usually cheaper. I had a '79 CBX with a few mods (flat bars, rear set pegs, 6-into-2 exhaust)...it would pass anything on the road except a gas station or a place that sold chains and tires! Fun to ride with that F1 style noise at full chat, but you didn't want to think about doing a valve adjustment. We used to joke about Japanese mechanics hands: palms 2" wide, with 10" fingers with about 8 joints. I dunno about the Benelli as an alternative: if you think CBX parts are rare and expensive, you haven't tried to source ones for the Sei! ANY Harley is a crap shoot, as few of them are unmodified and replacement parts can be quite dear (and that's in the USA), not to mention reliability issues...and then there is the price. Kind of like that dim-witted but pretty girlfriend - nice to look at, but not much fun to ride.
As a Guzzi addict myself my answer to any over priced classic is a Guzzi, but I can’t say that in every video For me non of the 6 cylinder bikes are particularly credible, so I’d go for a classic four instead because sometimes less is more. The Honda was DOHC but not a 4 of course. Would I buy any of the big bore HDs. Well no because we have corners
@@bikerdood1100 l owned a Guzzi 850 Lemans...this was a great bike, looked like it was doing 120mph on the centre stand... it sounded wonderful...its handling, like most Italian bikes was superior to many Japanese bikes of the day...They just didn't like British weather.....they longed for their native climate and countryside....
@@bikerdood1100 But is a Le Mans - especially a mk1 (even more especially early batch...) cheap, now? I'm being particular on the version, as if you're comparing, then the mk1 is rather equivalent to the bmw r90s and then, when you're settling for mk2s etc, why wouldn't you be equally satisfied with an also-cheaper R100s (say)? I love Guzzis, but if you're going after the classics, many will want the classic version, else you could get something modern and actually quick for much less.
@@villiamo3861 unfortunately they are on the up but no where near Ducati super sport prices. Currently. Thankfully less sporty options remain reasonable ish. T3 or standard R BMWs would definitely be a smart move
Another bike that is overrated is the Ducati single, particularly the 450. Back in the mid 80’s they were almost mythical among Ducati owners. Being sucked in by the hype I bought a 1974 model and it was crap! It was a pig to start and once started, was almost impossible to keep running until the engine warmed up. It vibrated like a road drill and bits used to regularly vibrate off. I lost a footrest (fortunately found it afterwards), the silencer and worst of all, one of the rear wheel spindle nuts. Fortunately, I was a toolmaker, so made a new spindle with castellated nuts and secured them with R clips. Worst of all though, for someone in their early 20’s, I could not get more than 70 out of it. In the end I took it to a specialist in Ducati singles, but even after that, it was no quicker. It looked cool, but it was crap.
@Turnipstalk the vibration was terrible, 20 miles was about the maximum range because my hands would start to get numb. I lived in Norwich then and a trip to Snetterton racetrack was a bit too far, really uncomfortable. The exhaust pipe mounting nut used to vibrate undone, so I had to drill a couple of holes and wire it on. It would usually start easily enough, if the piston was in exactly the right place when I kicked it over, but I would always have to hold the throttle open a bit or it would cut out until the engine warmed up. However, even though it had all these shortcomings, I did like it.
In the 80s I bought every Kawa Z1, KZ900, KZ1000 I could lay my hands on. There were loads of em for sale that wouldn't start or needed work from 300 to 500 bucks--lots of em! I could improve em easily and cheaply and sell em for 1200-1500 bucks. It was fun and profitable.
Well they had bomb proof engines, by reputation which would have helped onward sale. I’ve generally found that problems with a lot of Japanese bikes tend to be electrical. They have to make savings somewhere ultimately and it seems that items like alternators and regulator rectifiers can be a weakness. This is handy of course because they are usually easily fixed. I suppose the other big problem stateside is the tendency for bikes to be laid up for very long periods which is never good
Nuvver wise list - some of these are by no means bad (having character at least), but are overrated and over priced now, as you have so eloquently described!
Not many people do have pockets deep enough. Any 6 sounds amazing but apart from sound and number of exhaust pipes are they really any better than a four ? Back in the day not many people were sold on them
@@bikerdood1100 probably not but it's the look really. Had a long chat with the CBX owners at the last Stafford Bike show. They had the faired touring model on stand that the owner said Honda couldn't sell in the day.
People ride different bikes for different reasons. Comparing Harley and Indian to the other bikes is apples and oranges. I’ve been riding for 50 years and have owned and ridden more bikes than I can remember, I currently ride an Indian Chief. A heavy, expensive monster of a bike that I love dearly nonetheless. Also I’ve never had anyone ask me if they could photograph any of the Japanese bikes I owned. That seems to happen often with the Indian.
A bike needs to be able to be effective as a bike Apples and oranges are a little different but the are both good A bike still needs to be able to perform the basic task of taking a corner without scrapping metal at anything above walking pace. A bike should be a practical device if it can’t even mange a little light traffic or get you to your destination without breaking its ornamental value only. I don’t buy a motorcycle to impress other people as an aside, I ride for my own enjoyment, if someone like one of mu old classics or my Italian stallion, I could care less
@@bikerdood1100 Like I said, people ride different bikes for different reasons. I don’t expect or want my Indian to ride or handle like a sport bike. I don’t have any problem in the corners and have never scraped metal. I’ve hade different bikes like I said but being in my sixties and having broken most parts of my body at one time or another, a cruiser is what I can ride without having to call an ambulance after the first hundred miles. It’s beautiful and rides nice.
I always found it very easy to scrape footboards when riding borrowed 1990s era FatBoys and Heritages but I eventually progressed to trying to corner fast and smooth without grounding anything except the outsides of my boots. I'm told that leaving over even more can ground the swinging arm pivots on those softails - leading to some exciting slides, but never experienced that myself. At least with my riding abilities, I usually found that the ground clearance of other Harleys was not a limiting factor when touring over the UK and Europe. I'd also say that, for long distance touring, and especially if two up, a Sportster is the least desirable Harley to have. That's not to say that you cannot do 500+ miles in a day on a Sporty, but it will be far less of an ordeal on a Big Twin.
I built an 860GT out of three parts bikes. They were ugly and unloved but mine, being a non-desmo, was reliable as a brick. I even took it to a track day and had a slow but hugely fun blast on it. To be fair I always lusted after a MHR.
Of course if we’re looking purely what a bike DOES better ,than another machine ,even if it’s of the era it doesn’t account for how it makes a rider FEEL, or how it was looked upon in its day ,and after all most classic bikes are owned by people who either had or lusted after a particular machine in its day. Also the reputation, and /or the looks of a bike holds an enormous sway over its value in future years. As an example your comparison of the Kawasaki z1 ( I owned a z1 B) and the Suzuki GS 1000 doesn’t take in to consideration the afore mentioned vital considerations. I remember very well first seeing a Z1 , and I’ll never forget it, and seeing one accelerate past me is driven even deeper . The Gs1000 however was almost invisible in comparison, and in my eyes anyway just looked boring. The 1100 katana however although nowhere near as attention grabbing as the Z1 was a much better comparison, and as one owner told me in the 80s “ it handles like it’s on rails and it certainly grabbed your attention . When it comes to value ( or in some cases rarity) reputation and folk lore is king , and looks help a great deal to . Pre unit Bonnie , Honda 750 , Kawasaki triples ,( we all know about them!) Z1 ,Ducati 900ss ( looks ,sound, handling,brakes, every body new about the finish and reliability issues but would buy one like a shot if had the money) , ect,ect. A bike is worth every penny that someone is willing to pay ,and in most cases quite a few are willing to pay . Yes the Gs 1000 is a better bike than the Z1 ,but you can pick up a rough GS 1000 today at a far lower price than the Z1, so over rated ? if classics were rated on capability there wouldn’t be a classic movement, what would be the point ,buy a modern bike ? The rating system is entirely different for classics .Flawed is a better word I think. As you can no doubt tell I had absolutely nothing to do tonight LOL! Love the channel👍👍
Well two of my bikes are much older than me and I didn’t lust after them in my youth I wanted a Katana or a Le Mans. I’ve ridden a lot of classic bikes after getting into them almost by accident. I have to say that I enjoy ridding pretty much anything. I’m not convinced that spending more will always bring greater joy. In my experience the opposite is all too often the case. My old BSA is not my oldest or my most expensive bike I’ve ever owned by any means but it is the one I enjoy the most. The whole point of the video is that bikes like the Z have become far to expensive so looking at credible alternatives is for many their only option Looks are a personal thing in my youth I never thought of the Suzuki as boring I do prefer the look of the Katana to the Z to be honest, I really hate the new one though Suzuki have missed the looks of the original by a mile.
Very informative video.....thank you. The cvx1000 always looked top heavy to me. Cornering with a wide engine like that requires some extra ground clearance.....any thoughts?
They were generally ok by the standards o& the day, ground clearance wasn’t the worst, BMW boxers no better and Harley much worse. The engine isn’t as wide as it appears compared to the fours of the time at least. It would be mighty expensive to fix if it was dropped however. Hard to imagine that it was nimble even by late 70s standards
Always differences between what people like but the R100RT as a tourer was the best boxer twin touring bike. The RS riding position was not good for me. Ok at high speed but a pain for lock and even back road riding and a bit cramped. As they didn't have the footrests far enough back for the bar position. Also you still got buffering from the screen. The RT was a grand tourer with great weather and wind protection. The fairing on both the rs and RT provided down force on the front that helped high speed handling. You could see that the headlight beam would lower at speed. Most of the naked bikes actually force more weight on the back wheel at speed. I had a z1000st that you needed two lanes on the motorway at high speed and felt like it was aquaplaning at the front in the wet at speed. Not that handling was ever any good anyway but what a motor. The z650 was one of the best overall Japanese bikes I ever rode as a package with good power, torque and reasonable handling. Don't really think of the leman as a touring bike but a great bike for long sweeping bendy roads. The ride is good at speed but a pain in town and in traffic. The best handling bike I ever rode was a pantah rev it till you thought it would blow up and ride it hard on the corners. What speed would it do, never had the time to look at the clocks had my eyes fixed to the road plotting the setup for the next corner. Great scratching bike. Best long distance tourers for comfort and less tiring over distance were the BMW's compliant suspension, long legs and in the case of the RT a very comfortable bike. I enjoyed your best and worst series and agree with most of your advice. Keep up the good videos 👍 I think that all biker need at least three bikes in the garage as each bike is different for different roads but I still think for the money and overall riding a Z650 is very hard to beat as an all rounder.
We have all of these bikes in my club......the stand out is the R90 ..old mate has owned one since new in 73 done heaps and heaps of miles unrestored and still a good reliable ride. Riding in little Britain is a different story than the wide open spaces of Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
😂 We have a continent 21 miles away You Colonials and you crap understanding of Geography I’ve travelled all over said Europe and even did a bike trip in India All without a BMW we did have one and it Broke down In Europe shitty thing 😂😂😂😂😂 Never been to Australia to be honest But I don’t have a criminal record so not sure I’d fit in Is it still a requirement? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I had a 1975 900SS as my "get to work/summer" vehicle (winter get to work was a 66 Cooper S) from about 83 to 92, and it was just brilliant. I bought my first Ducati about 1981, a 1976 860 GT, and it was very cheap, as needed work. I had it for a year, and realised I needed an SS. So I bought the 900SS, and it was fabulous. It was cheaper than half the Equiv Japanese bikes, because of "all the reliability" rumours. Like I said, mine was great and I never had any trouble with it. I have always maintained my own cars/bikes (4 cars/4 bikes at the moment) and, again, the "horror stories about so complicated/strange design"; I never had any problems. Anybody who did - when I spoke to them, they just didn't understand how they worked/what they were doing, so THAT was the problem. If you get a boilermaker to overhaul your Rolex.......................... and it then doesn't work, would you blame the Rolex????? After that they went soft. Down to 32mm carbs from 40mm, stifling pipes, mag wheels. No one liked Darmahs when they were new, (people bought sportys bikes from Ducati, and the Darmah was a more a GT) and Pantahs didn't sell (here they had lots of burnt holes in pistons as it is hot here). The last 900SS's with everything watered down were selling new at a Ducati dealer here in 1982 for $3,995, and they had ten they could NOT sell, as everyone waiting for the new model. Then it came out ......................................... and those ten SS's sold in a week - and within a year were changing hands for a grand over the 4 they were new, as the S2 was seen as even softer. I paid 2 grand (AUD, I am in Australia) for my SS, sold it for 5 grand; When I bought it, I asked the guy "If this is so good, how come no one has bought it?" He said "3 guys tried it, couldn't ride it." What the???? They couldn't handle the limited steering lock, and the "gear change on the wrong side." Pfft. And now it has just been rebuilt to as new after the bloke who bought from me used to ride it everywhere with his dog on the tank. One similar sold for almost 200 grand in the US, and two basket cases that haven't gone for 20 years sold for 50 grand each. Only reason I sold mine was I got married and then wife said it had to go. I would have kept it forever, it was the best bike I have ever had/ever ridden. A work mate had a Laverda Jota, and we would occasionally dice along the backroads in the bush on the way home. He left me on any straight, but any corner the SS left him behind. Jota's are great, but need to be taken by the scruff of the neck. My mate was a better rider than me, but my bike was quicker overall than his. But I LOVE the "these cars/bikes are CRAP" things. If not for that.................... I could never have afforded/experienced them. 🙂 Each to their own.
You probably should have watched paid more attention then Don’t believe I said any of bikes in the video are crap in fact in the opening sentence I say exam the opposite Seems to me you heard what you wanted from the video One of the main points is that these bikes are stupidly overpriced Total crazy The point is No bike is good enough to be worth that money
I could suggest a few underrated more easily,..ducati 350 desmo singles..great for what they do..handle and go so well and poor finish on panels was ok as the important parts were superb and they also reliable. Mine was a daily rider and weekend joy I built from boxes of bits,..broke down once only in 5 years,slogging to work in traffic it cheered a 50cent crankshaft woodruf key...no other damage.They are easy to work on despite the hype..even the zero clearance desmo valve setting...baby manx but better .
Finally somebody talking reality on some bikes with way inflated reputations. Re the Z900, it had a hinge in the middle, because of Kawasaki’s treatment of rear shocks as decorative only, and a lacklustre top end. Slower in the intervals above 130kph than a pushrod Guzzi 750S, they were difficult to ride fast in the twisty bits. Inferior in every sense to the Suzuki GS1000S, for example.
It took a while for the Japanese to really get to grips with chassis design The Suzuki GS 750 is generally recognised as the first Japanese Superbike that could live with the European competition through the twisties. In the case of the big Z the frame and suspension couldn’t cope with the power and mass and of course they fitted the thing with high bars which made the situation worse. And really the Japanese continued in the same way in the 80s more and more power and weight too little chassis Who knows why it took them so long to catch on
My 81 Hailwood was my dream bike, saved and saved then finally got one new, my alternator lasted a week, no warranty then but they did it at cost but I had to fit it with borrowed tools in Frasers car park 😄 Then the big end failed at 4000k despite Penrite 50 changed every 1000k. Was a lovely bike though once sorted despite rock hard Marzochi suspension and wooden Brembo's. Traded in a MK2 LeMans on it, would love that back😊
Stiff suspension is an Italian standard in my experience, all part of the fun Love the Hailwood replica use I have to say But I’d take the Guzzi, I’m biased 😂
Owned both a 1981 Darmah and a 1978 900ss in black and gold, both now long gone. Stating that a 900ss is over rated is probably an exercise in irrelevance. It just doesn't matter when you lived with one. The point is that they were fantastic bikes. As for the Darmah, it was as much of a pain in the arse as 900ss was when it didn't want to co-operate. They both required the same investment in TLC and in return for that high maintenance input received a damn good hammering on a daily basis. Looking back through the mists of time and rose tinted spectacles, they were a hell of a lot of fun, especially the 900ss, that induction roar on full throttle.....
But the How much does an SS cost today compared to a Darmah for example. The asking prices are utter madnesses and are part of the inflated reputation I through my rode tinted glasses away
@@bikerdood1100 Comparing the current cost of the two is irrelevant outside of the fact that they are now historical collectors machines. They were two very different beasts with different performances and reasons for existence, right out of the box, despite their similar seeming engines. There were differences for a number of reasons. The 900ss was Ducati's bog standard production racing bike, no mods required. The Darmah and GTS were most definitely not in that league. Their engines were subtly different internally and the GTS was not a Desmo. You cant even begin to compare the two, in the same way you attempt to compare a GTS and a 900ss. Then the fact that the reliability issues with all Italian motorcycles of the 1970's and early 80's went right across the board. Is its reputation inflated though? No, I think that you'll find that that perceived inflated reputation is nothing more than your own personal opinion. Go and read any of the media literature from its time and you will understand that it is just your opinion. It is the same when you recommend a Jarama over a Jota, because they too are very different beasts. Then ask the folks who owned and ran Italian motorcycles. You weren't buying into reliability when you went Italian, no, you were buying into something a bit more intangible and a 900ss was in there. 1970's: Moto Guzzi, Laverda, Morini, Ducati, Benelli. You didn't buy one for the reliability factor, no one ever did.
@@bikerdood1100 The only thing that I can add is that you are conflating the current cost of entry into ownership of all of these bikes with "over rated" and having an "inflated reputation". It is not the same thing. The one thing that your "over rated" bikes all have in common was that they all raised the bar and changed the expectations of the performance curve. The price of entry to current ownership is due to their now historical benchmarks.
@@fuzzle9392 inflated prices stem from inflated reputations. Also Ducati didn’t sell many bikes so value is based on rarity as much as quality ditto ? Many other bikes of the period are valued far less simply because they sold much better and far more survive but are in fact much better machines As for other Italian bikes laverda by reputation had much better build quality(fact) and Moto Guzzi’s were always much more reliable. Le Mans 1 or an SS for me it’s an easy choice and many during the 70s too.
@@bikerdood1100 No. None of your points matter nor have any real relevance. You are trying to quantify the subjective intangible qualities of legendary icons. They are what they are in the collective historical consciousness and "reliability" or whatever doesn't even matter. If you want "reliabilty" buy into the bland seamless boredom of the safe. I enjoyed the unpredictability of my Ducati's. They had qualities that brought joy to the table, especially my 900ss. I basically gave my old beast away in 2006 after I ran it for the last time in 1999. It was a well used non runner with gummed up carbs and rusted out Conti's in need of some serious cash being spent on it. The chap who got it was after it for years and spent a lot of money bringing it back to life. Then he hermetically sealed it vacuum packed as an object of worship.
it's a shame you didn't let us really listen to the exhaust note from the conti equipped Ducati twins. A soul stirring sound forever memorised. In Australia they sold like hot cakes, before the Suzuki and Kawasaki 4s got a foothold. As I remember back there were few 750s but lots of 860s (normal valve spring heads) and 900s (desmo heads, still 860cc). They were kickstart which required holding your tongue right, except the GTS860 models which had starter motors. . which rarely worked. The 860 and 900 models all had Italian electronic ignition which in the early days was unreliable. As long as owners ran penzzoil straight 50wt the engines were surprisingly tough . .but use a multi grade and the bigends exploded. Hope this is of some interest. cheers.
To be honest it’s quite an old video It’s something I like to include in my more recent stuff We all enjoy a good exhaust note I find Sound quality is thankfully something we’ve improved since then too 😂
Back in the early 80's I was riding a P&M Panther 650😅 which was a product of the 50s and 60s. It was a single-cylinder sloper 650, a sidecar hauler, which I was riding solo while waiting for a new set of sidecar linkages. Despite shortening the trail - achieved by rotating the fork-ends through 180 degrees - after removing wheel and axle which gave around 3" trail shortened it was still a pig to handle solo. It was for that reason that I turned down a biker's plea to ride my big cat. We all hung out at a small cafe in the bus station in Cheltenham and it was a transitory kind of place. Usually outside were the usual suspects - a Triumph or two, Nortons, Beezers and at the other end of the scale, Honda step-thru C90s and a clutch of 250cc L-riders, Japanese metal mostly. And this guy who was fixated on trying out on my tired old single. After about a week I took him out to ride it and he went off for about 20 minutes and had a good time. So imagine my surprise when he turned up on the Monday riding a brand-new Z1 insisting that I should have a go to repay my kindness. I didn't know what to do. Clearly he wanted me to have a crack at this monster four, and I felt he would be offended if I didn't take him up on the offer. The thing is I was only five and a half feet tall. Eventually I launched out into the traffic and made a circuit of the lower Promenade, certainly faster than ever before, which only convinced me that if I ever rode one regularly I would certainly die before I grew old. I never told him how I leaned against a bus when the traffic stalled at the lights 'cos I just couldn't get my feet to the floor!
I was fortunate enough to own a 1976 900ss. I put over 40,000KM on that wonderful machine. In that time the only thing that needed replacing was the stator plate. Compared to all the other bikes I owned none of them came close to the Duke for looks, handling and just plain fun.
Not convinced on looks Pretty yes Most beautiful I’ve ever seen Definitely not Bevels were expensive and difficult to make 40 k is only 25,000 miles A lot for a Duke I expect Hampered our a hell of a lot more and my Guzzi all over Europe with nay a problem
I’m guessing you are a fair bit younger than myself (68) . Our different viewpoints are healthy for the classic bike movement, and understandable. We both love these old bikes and nobody is more right or wrong than the other ,it’s what matters to us personally that counts ?
Well I’m mid 50s.I’m just worried that giving a narrow selection of machines just drives up costs. If younger riders can’t afford classic bikes then it’s over.
As usual, context is everything. So please define "overrated". I might agree with you on the "Fat Boy" though. It isn't half the bike a Sturgis is, for instance. But the rest? Nah.
I believe I do that in the opening I think that so many people disagree when it’s about a bit many may never have even seen kind of proves the point. If a Classic for example now commands a price way above its actual worth, well that would qualify for me. The Ducati is pretty but the fact is 5he bevel drive bikes simply aren’t as good as what came later.,Complex, temperamental they can be a very expensive money pit
Recently I added a CBX to my stable and as an owner I can't really disagree with what you say. It is probably fair to say that the Suzuki GS1000 of the same period was a better all round ltr bike from a riding viewpoint (probably the best). And also Honda's own CB900F. But people like me don't buy something like a CBX because we believe it is or was the best. I love it for the shere silliness of it, for want of a better phrase. It is actually a very nice bike to ride though and I don't find that it feels particularly heavy or bulky. But then I also have a couple of Goldwings (GL1000 and GL1800) and compared to the 1800 it feels like a handy sized bike.
@@bikerdood1100 Actually the 1800 DCT isn't as intimidating as many people think. It is heavy but very well balanced and easy to handle. Even putting it up on the stand is easy for a 10st, 5'6" tiddler like me :) Just don't try riding it like a sports bike. Ridden the way it is intended to be ridden it handles very well. You should try one. I think you would be pleasantly surprised even if it isn't your kind of bike.
@@bikerdood1100 That is true to an extent. If you go to the other extreme you could do it all on a moped. It isn't about what you can do it is about how you can do it. I was very sceptical until I tried one and, like many others, was converted as soon as I rode one. Too many people judge them without ever having ridden one. Of course they are not for everyone but what bike is?
@@iannicholson9875 not a moped But a later Ducati . Most fun bike I’ve ever ridden was a Honda NSR 250 Only 45hp but so light and nimble Less can be more
A Harley can beat any bike on the road on acceleration, cornering, handling and braking. A Ninja h2 would have zero chance against a Harley. Ask a Harley rider from the US and they will set you straight.
Any Harley rider in the US can explain the advantages of those over a Japanese bike. I ride a Ninja 1000sx and could care less what anyone rides. The superiority that Harley riders feel over everyone else and the fact that they think riding one automatically makes them a Hells Angel is just ridiculous .
Thanks very much for this. I do very much agree with your comments on the Ducati , Harley and Honda. In the late 70s and 80 I was very keen on the Ducati but Honda came out with the new 750 that had more power and handle very well. Next came the CBX 1000 which was beautiful but not very practical and I was always worried about the valve adjustment service. The CBR 900 F came along and it was lighter had about the same horsepower and was in my budget! It was a great bike and owned it until the CBR1000 F came along and then I broke down and bought that one. I rode that one for years and it was the best bike I ever owned. Thanks for your channel!
The sound of that big V-twin from idle all the way to it's 5,000(?)RPM redline & the street cred, thanks to outlaw bikie clubs is why people love Harleys. Especially black ones. I call them 2-wheel tractors.
Back in the very early '80s I wanted to buy a bevel drive Duke .There were 2 dealers where I lived and neither one wanted to sell me one because they didn't want the hassle of dealing with the warranty work they new it would generate. On that basis went for a different brand.
Perhaps they are just overpriced rather than overrated, yet I will nominate the BMW R80 G/S and its successor the R100GS. The R80 G/S was quite innovative, the first BMW to be equipped with a single-sided swing arm, the Monolever. It provided BMW’s first ever win at in the Paris-Dakar Rally in 1984. However, I’m not sure that this warrants the floor of the value range being over $10000 USD for a less than pristine example and well into the $20000+ USD for a pristine example. The R100 GS is only slightly better. There were a lot more of those made, but their average sale price is around $9000 USD and can go up very quickly from there. The first Oilhead GS bike, the R1100 GS can be found for half that much for a decent specimen. I’ve put over 220,000 miles on seven BMWs which included 2 early K-bikes and five Oilhead R-bikes. I have always desired to own an R100 GS as a “just for fun, not a daily driver,” motorcycle, but not at those kind of prices.
Given the value that gets placed on some of these things when equally good machines are far more affordable I’d argue that the two are indelible linked
I can remember seeing new CBXs selling for knock down prices when the novelty wore off . There was one in the local dealers shop that sat there for years .
Well the novelty wore out pretty fast Believe they sold around 27,000 By Honda standards that’s disastrous By comparison Triumph sold more T150s and Norton more than twice as many Commandos
The CBX looked and sounded great, but had its problems. The bike was very top heavy, which discouraged sporting riding. My 1979 Yamaha XS 1100 could consistently beat the CBX in street drag races. The Honda was smaller displacement, and had less low end torque, making it more difficult to launch. The shaft drive on the Yamaha was very strong, but also caused its own handling problems when pushed. Both bikes were good for around 135 mph tops and 11.7 second quarter mile times.
@@Anatoli50 One problem of the CBX was it's reputation for the far right zylinder (or better: crankshaft) to break. Only found out when I stopped for a stranded CBX owner. He told me that this problem was kinda common.
The 900SS was known to blow up around 20000 miles. The big ends were a weakness and i heard that from mechanic in the trade from the mid 1960s. The 500cc Ducati Pantah was a much better design of engine even without the bevel gears to the camshafts. A very expencsive but what a beautiful bike based on the 750SS raced by Paul Smart but i cant believe how much the Mike Hailwood replica 900SS are selling for now. They are like the MV Agusta 750 four, hugely desired by collectors. The racing spec BSA rocket 3 triples are way cheaper and in my opinion beautiful, iconic like Slippery Sam the T160 racers of Triumph. Didnt they win the transatlantic races around the early 1970s?
Probably not mid 60s Pantah was superior to the bevels , no doubt about that The BSA/ Triumph triples were very successful in formula 750, well until they banned bikes that had were out of production Honda had to find some way to win 😂
a mate owns a green frame duk which he bought new and kept ever since , his main complaint is that its worth so much money now days hes not game to take it out , its worth more than what it cost him to build his house ,you are right about better to get the later models of the icons as besides price they have had a lot of the bugs worked out BUT the collectors want the first model most of the time .. bugs and all ... speaking of bugs ..ridden a few harleys but never owned one so when one came up cheap recently i thought better to put my money where my mouth is and bought it ..1998 1200 sporty with low kls .. kept it 2 months and then got rid of it ..was not impressed
you say about the big HD s bad fuel consumption. I've owned the 09 FXD 94 cube 6 speed dyna super glide stage one kit from brand new it averages 320kms from 19 liters. ....been on runs with guys running 650 cc cruisers using more fuel than the Harley ....but your right about performance ...nothing compared to big four cylinder bikes I've owned in the past...
All I can say about consumption was that the average for your bike is no where near what you getting. The average for you pr bike is nearer the low 40s in terms of MPG (British) Which should see your tank completely empty in 275km of 172miles so if you are managing that then your batting way above average.
@@jamiegreenwood7996 check out fuely Owners fill the thing in with their own dated.I’ve checked it against several of my own bikes over the years and it tallies pretty well. It’s very useful because it makes some of the makers claims nonsense
@@bikerdood1100 My experience was that all the Harleys I owned returned over 50 mpg at legal speeds but cruising at 90 mph caused the fuel consumption to plummet to about 30 mpg.
Haha. Think youre nitpicking. Few bikes handled in the 70s. Id be happy with a shed full of 750 Dukes, 900 Kwakas, R90S BMs, and CBXs...haha. All legends...
@@bikerdood1100 haha. We never agree. I rode my mates R90S it went hard but front forks were terrible...I had a 750S Guzzi...now that handled. I watched Hailwood on a Desmo Duke in a 3hr production race where I live...bloody magic...
No coincidence that most are aspirational bikes of the 1970s. Most guys couldn't afford one back then, but with some spare cash in later life they can re-live their youthful fantasies. This pushes prices into bidding war territory, and beyond any reasonable assessment of their value as motorcycles. A similar thing happened with older motorcycles in the 70s and 80s, as Goldstars and Venoms went from affordable classics to collector baubles.
@@bikerdood1100 1970s motorcycles were a mug's eye full in many cases. Spindly frames and forks, acres of exhaust, but just count those ccs. Later bikes were much better sorted - as were many previous ones - however the form factor still has a lot of nostalgic potency. If I ever had the desire to tame that horsepower in an afterthought frame, it has lost since subsided.
I think in another 20 years time, these iconic bikes of the 70s and early 80s will be dropping in value, because the biggest market for them at the moment is my contemporaries, who grew up with them. Once we've all dropped dead, or become too old and infirm to ride, I can't see them having the same appeal to the younger, sports bike generations. It seems to me that with each generation, there are fewer bikers anyway, certainly amongst the people I know.
@@rickconstant6106 Case in point the FS1e. A good one will cost £10-12k, but will future generations who can't remember the 1970s pay that for a moped?
A mechanical lever opens the valve and another closes it . Normal valves of course use a spring to close them but As the revs rise the spring can’t slam the valve closed fast enough (valve float ) To stop this you could use a stronger sting but this puts more strain on the valve gear (levers etc) and will obviously require more energy to overcome the resistance of the spring thus taking away some engine power. Desmo was not actually invented by Ducati and was used in industrial engines in the Victorian era Nothing is ever new
@@bikerdood1100 I remember reading Ducati quoted in the UK motorcycle press of the time as saying that the purpose of their use of desmo valve gear (on at least one of the Ducati desmo models, but I can't remember which) was not, contrary to popular belief, to allow higher revs (that was, they said, limited by piston travel speeds) but to allow more radical cam profiles/valve opening and closing regimes (to achieve better power and power delivery) than could (safely!) be achieved with valve springs. (Of course, that could just have been marketing nonsense, rather than the actual engineering rationale. Come to think of it, having desmo valve gear itself could have been just a marketing feature, with no real engineering need!) The downside, I guess, would be additional complication in build and in maintenance. The adjustment for both levers on each valve would have to be EXACTLY right (in an era when precision wasn't so mainstream). I imagine if it were just the slightest bit out it would make an awful racket and/or cause rapid wear, and any more than that would risk making an awful mess of the engine.
Laughed at your comment re the Z1 being left behind by a smaller bije in the corners...I had a Z1000 in the 80s and a mate had an RD350LC. On a twisty road, hed sit behind me gor a while and laugh as I wresteld the big heavy pig around, then nip past around the outside when he'd had enough and leave me choking in his dust like tge coyote chasing the roadrunner lol...meep meep
@@bikerdood1100 true, but on similar bikes we were both about the same...unlike another mate of mine who can blow away most sportsbike riders on a 690KTM with knobbies...he truly is crazy lol
Thanks for this video. Your negative view of Harley Davidson is as you British would say “Spot On”. Why anyone would buy an overweight, overpriced and underpowered motorcycle is hard to fathom. Frankly I think the first Honda I ever took a close look at, a 305, is still a better bike than anything HD produces.
For Harley have gone down the rabbit hole of bigger is better, which is only true to a point. I do like the sound and character of their bikes but from a practical stand point they fall down. It’s an unfortunate case of style over content
I'm enjoying the overrated bikes best of all your series. Here where all the greats are (except the Harley of course), I thought seriously about the CBX once, but my favorite motorcycle mechanic told me not to. Sadly I listened to reason, but that 6-cylinder on full chat is to die for. I'd have loved a Kawa Z1 too, something you didn't mention, and I could be wrong, but didnt they have nearly non-existent brakes? As a suggestion for overrated, how about the first generation Suzuki GSXR (slabside), its a wonderful and iconic bike like the CBX and Z1, and beginning to cost a lot of money. The 2nd generation (slingshot) is better looking, better handling, just as fast and cheaper. I could be blowing my own trumpet.........
@@bikerdood1100 Tell me about it! The brakes on the 400/4 were useless, the front brake was so weak that you needed the rear brake, and then it would start skidding, nightmare.
@@spad5497 well the Japanese liked stainless or chrome plated discs, possibly because the looked good which were terrible in the wet. Iron discs on some European bikes were a bit better in wet weather in my experience. But better modern pads help a lot
@@bikerdood1100 I was leaned over the seat from the right side setting the magneto points gap when it backfired and the kickstart shot upwards taking my foot with it. I think my foot hit my shoulder and my ankle swelled up like a football. I was hobbling around for days.
@@bikerdood1100 looking forward to that, too. I once had the pleasure to ride a Herkules W2000 (the vacuum cleaner). Up to about 100km/h this bike would outrun every standard 750 from Japan.
Have to agree with your comments on the Fat Boy but, interestingly, developed into a general rant about Harley's in general. I think that you miss the point of HD's iconic and cultural value which is supported by your comment about the non-bikers naming HD as their memorable brand. All that aside, a great video. 👍
Problem with HD is the BS around them The looking down on sportster riders and seems absolute nonsense to me There’s something about building bigger and bigger bikes to a point of impracticality looks at vintage HDs and they were much smaller And the lack of ground clearance is inexcusable I’ve been to America quite a few times and there are definitely corners, lots of them
Hello 👋 .. wished you did a comparison maybe with the M8 Fat Bob, costs less a bit, I like the look and clearance in curves is much better in the softail segment along with the Heritage since both have higher rear suspension
Aww mate. Love your vids, but this is my favorite. I have three of the bikes featured (1976 900SS with a VIN below 10, a 1972 Z1 in the low 1100’s and a CBX). Your opinion on the other 2 (R900S and the Harley) match mine exactly. Bet you were born in 1961, and tha’s not from far away either. Did your Dad have a bike ? 🤣🤣🤣
Well I was born after 61, well a bit (still a product of the 60s) My dad did have a bike, but only ever had small stuff My uncles however had a variety of stuff from Nortons to Yamaha and BMW My Grandfather was a motorcyclist in the late 1920s and was an army dispatch rider in WWII Riding bikes is all I’ve ever wanted to do, I own a car but seldom drive it myself Leave that to the wife 😂
@@bikerdood1100 Honestly, I thought it was probably your Dad that was same age as me. I love the intro to your vids, and the old pics. I knew - or rather - THOUGHT you were probably younger. Similar story. My Dad was my enabler with a 5 quid test failed Mobylette when I was 10 but only because I nagged. It came with petrol ration vouchers so must have been the Yom Kippur war. The vouchers were never actually needed, but I still have my book. Honestly, I cannot tell you how much I loved that moped. I made a track round the long old garden. Then my Dad bought me an AP50, just before they were restricted, and it stayed in the garage for a few months until my 16th. I was up at 5am, and off for a ride before school - 1977. My Uncles were bikers too. Not even sure I got it from there, but it’s in my blood. I was bikeless from 1979 to 2019, and saying to the Wife on a regular basis “I’m having a bike when I retire”. She’d say “No you’re not” and then we’d talk about the kids or the weather. I have 16 now, all from 1969 to 1982 (plus an Africa Twin daily rider). All Japs, (except the 900SS and a Fogarty replica 916SPS) and mostly Hondas. I love your channel mate. Do you have a website / email contact?. Ride safe brother 👍
@@paulsmyth497 ha ha no My dad was born in the 1940s . His parents met during the war in the RAF He taught to ride on his Honda Cub on fields near our house in the early 70s I had an AP 50 in the early 80s before riding a 125 Suzuki Oddly enough my Grandfather ( the despatch rider) had a mobylette in the 60s, he loved it. It replaced his BSA winged wheel amongst other small bikes he used to commute on after war until the early 70s
@@bikerdood1100 Brilliant story. My Dad was born in Tipperary in 1918. He ran away to England in 1936 in the days when the pubs said “No tramps, no dogs, no Irish”. He was a laborer during the start of the war, and had an argument with his Foreman over sixpence (not sure if that was an hour, or a day) and said “Sod this, I’m off to join up”. His foreman said “Don’t be daft Michael, you’re Irish”. He volunteered for the Royal Marines and had a war I am massively proud of including North Africa, liberation of the Greek islands and crossing of the Rhine. He died in 2015, just short of 97. My hero, as I’m sure yours are to you. His youngest Sister Eileen died last week. She would have been 100 this year, and we were all heading over. I was in Ireland 4 years ago with my lad for his others Sisters 100th, she died just less than a year later. They were a special generation for sure our parents. My Dad loved that I had a passion for bikes, even though he never had. Pretty sure from your vids - and now these messages - we are pretty much two peas from neighboring pods mate 😊
4,25 it's one of those unproven statements oft said '' on a twisty Rd a lighter less powerful bike would show it a clean pair of heels".. Fact was at the time, rarely did that hapoen, unless there was a significant difference in the riders abilities.
Maybe it’s often said because it’s often true Particularly in the days when bikes engines so greatly outperformed that chassis and breaks. On the subject of riders of course it’s folly to assume the stronger more experienced rider is on the larger bike . The opposition is often the case Because when you’ve got a few years under your belt you not desperate to prove anything or if you will go over compensate
@@bikerdood1100 Thank you, my assumption was that the better rider was on the slower bike. In 1972 very few bikes handled well, so the power of the z1 kept it ahead, although I didn't own one (2 stroke fan), I witnessed first hand how quick these were on the road, iffy handling or not.
The kz 750 was one of my favorite bikes . Did it corner well ? No . Did it go straight well ? Yes very well . If I had an option of two new cx 500s or one new kz , I would opt for the kawasaki even though Honda has a piece of my heart . Question??? Were GPZ's common there ? The 550 was a dream bike for me that never became reality. There was just something about it .
At the time the CBX was seen as a bit of a joke, it was the sort of bike that people with more money than sense went for. At the time I had another, possibly overrated motorcycle, a Laverda 120 Jota?
I've lost count of the times of when mentioning that i am a motorcyclist, non-motorcycling aqaintances would say...''Oh have you got a Harley Davidson?''....which in truth would probably be my very last option, if i wanted another motorcycle! As you say, that proves the power of good product advertising.
Hardly Davidsons are mid-life crisis machines. Old gits that ride them think they look like the Terminator or an outlaw Sons of Anarchy guy.......until they wobble up to a corner! And, yes, I am an old git too but ride a Bandit 1200 and a 918 Fireblade.
I get that. I'm 68 and for people who don't know me, that seems to be the assumption, that if i haven't got a Harley, that must be my ultimate goal. The truth is, even if I had that sort of money to spend on a bike, I still wouldn't. I'm quite happy with my 78 Triumph T140 and 80 Suzuki GS550. They're both very good value for money and fun to ride, I don't have to worry too much about someone stealing them if I leave them parked for more than half an hour, and I don't have to spend several hours polishing them after every ride.
@@rickconstant6106 my wife owned on3 for a few years an£ replaced it with a Moto Guzzi V7 She finds the bike better in pretty much every way, she tells me she would never buy another. I quite enjoyed riding it but in some ways it felt more crude than my 50s BSA and less fun to ride too
@@ronwhite8503 I went through the whole mid life thing a wile ago, Didn’t get a Harley fat boy though Guess I didn’t fall quite low enough Just took up running instead. I’d had a garage full of bikes for decades already by then and didn’t need and over weight twin with terrible ground clearance cluttering the place up
I don't agree with the majority of the statements in this video and think the alternatives offered miss the mark by a country mile. The reason these bikes are either expensive or desirable is because of a combination of factors, not least because they are getting very hard to find these days and pointing out their shortcomings in areas like handling or reliability does not meaningfully distract from their desirability. Suggesting that a Sportster is a good alternative for a Fatboy is ludicrous, they are so far divorced from what they are designed to do that they are aimed at a totally different market. The Sportster (which you seemed to be talking about) is a sports/cafe racer, hence the small tank, the Fatboy is a sort of cruiser, and the Road King is the touring bike, touring on a Sportster?, wrong machine for the job. I would have any of the bikes on your list, they are beautiful machines for a sunny day ride and more likely than not, that is all they would be used for these days, and as a bonus, their monetary value will keep going up.
The point is to make people think and not focus on a narrow selection of bikes lie the bike mags do. Come up with your own alternatives that’s the point. If I’m being completely honest the best alternative to a Fatboy is a proper motorcycle. I do find the snobbery amongst Harley fans about their smaller bikes perfectly really, Some Harley Davidsons look good and I selected the Fatboy because it’s a famous model but in reality none of them are very good bikes
@@bikerdood1100 Do people still buy bike mags still?, perhaps in the UK, I don't know, but I haven't for years, I don't see the point anymore, they are mostly ads anyway. I sort of see your point, but a Z650 might be a more suitable and affordable bike for daily use than a Z900, but it will never be a Z900 and a Benelli 750sei would, by any measure, be a far worse bike to own than a CBX, to be fair so would the Kawasaki Z1300 which was always regarded as a bloated and overweight wobbling mess of a bike. As for HD bikes, I am not defending the rather primitive design or build quality, but they are probably the most customisable and tuner friendly bikes you can get, show me a HD that the owner hasn't modified. They have good strong bones and there is nothing flimsy or weak about them. Not the best bike in the world, but there is a charm to them and if left factory stock they are reliable. I have always thought that most of the problems with HD reliability comes from owners tinkering with them.
Not really detracting, no bike is perfect and I’m saying there are other bikes out there That’s all really. If fan boys consider that criticism I think it says more about them.
Triumph 1600 Thunderbird is a great bike and cheaper than the 1700. The Thunderbird Storm or LT are both very different. The LT is a bit like the fully dressed Indian a great muscle tourer but the Storm has a double headlight and is quite stripped down in Matt black rather than chrome. I love these bikes and think it's one of the best bikes ever designed or made but that's in the real world for the price . Even nicer than the BMW R18 in my humble opinion as it's subjective.
Well I’m all honesty I’m not convinced at all by the R18 It can’t work as a foot forward cruiser and how big an engine do you really need before it gets plain silly
One of the best descriptions of HD that I've ever heard. "The bike for non-bikers". What I find highly irritating about HD riders is that they will not wave at another biker unless it's another HD. I hold off on waving at oncoming bikes until I can confirm that they not an HD. Over priced, heavy, underpowered, and not even made in the USA that much. They closed a plant in Kansas City, York Pennsylvania and Memomonee Falls Wisconsin and opened one in Brazil for crying out loud! And a lot of their components are made overseas.
It is true about some HD owners, not all of course
I f find that a lot of modern ideas don’t seem to wave to be fair however
One point that you omitted was that the Kawasaki 900 and the CBX are both staggeringly Beautiful...their minor Flaws can be overlooked for that reason alone.
good video ...Thank you.
It’s not really about their looks though is it, or their flaws either
It’s about inflated reputations and prices. I wouldn’t really say the CBX was beautiful though if I’m honest
@@bikerdood1100 Oh but it is. That engine, and six exhaust pipes, compensates the otherwise rather staid lines. And it looks better than the Benelli sei.
@@spad5497 well I’m first an foremost an Italian bike man so nahhh
Also I’m something of a V twin guy so lots of pipes just feels like over compensating.
Staggeringly unstable too!
@@andrewoh1663 Have ridden Several..handling was fine.
The First Japanese Mass Produced Motorcycle to use double overhead cams was the 1966 Honda CB450, which went on to end up in 1976 or so as the CB500.
I no unfortunately I’m the edit I cut out the bit where I said 4 cylinder
That’ll teach me no to vet prune
The Fat Boy is a great motorcycle to cruise comfortably on open roads of a motorcycle. It was really not made for the tiny and winding roads of European cities, for that I’d rather ride a Vespa...
I meant “to cruise comfortably on the open roads of America”. Besides that, what you need in this kind of motorcycle is torque, not final power as it’s not at all comfortable to ride at over 100mph, it’s made to cruise at 80mph. You have to analyze it for considering what it’s made for.
Ahh but I’ve been to American several times and you do have corners
@@bikerdood1100 Sure, but the Fat Boy can turn well enough if you have reasonable riding skills, it’s just that in the US you have more space and a lot of big and long straight roads which the fat boy and all the other Harley big twins are primarily made for.
The 750ss was derived from the machine used by Paul Smart and Bruno Spaggiari at Imola to leave all the Japanese competitors behind. A few years later it was Mr. Hailwood's turn to blow away the Japanese at the Isle of Man TT. Was there a significant difference in build quality between the racers and their roadgoing ancestors?
Well funny you should mention the racers, I read an interview with one of the guys who prepared Hailwoods bike for the TT and they had to do an incredible amount of work to make the bike capable of completing a TT and Hailwood nursed the bike in the later laps.
@@bikerdood1100 The bevels also failed as it crossed the finish line. I got into an online argument with Patrick Slinn who prepared Hailwood's bike. I made the same statement you have, about the bike requiring a lot of work to be viable, he stated that this was untrue. Go figure (as the Amiricans say)
The Hailwood bike had almost no standard components from a road bike, so it's another subject. As for the Smart/Spaggiari bikes, they had a grand total of ONE major win, so....
@@bikerdood1100 I was there it was the hondas that broke down
There wasn’t much nursing of that Ducati
The reason they (steve Wynne Sports motorcycles) had to do so much work was because Ducatis sent them a pretty tired NCR bike
Saying the 750/900ss is overrated is like saying a Turner painting is overrated because its not as colour accurate as an iphone photo
Apart from all that well put together video 👍
Well I can only take on board the interview I read with the Guy who peeped Hailwoods bike and it took a tremendous amount of work to get that bike anywhere near ready.
The victory says an awful lot more about Hailwood than the Ducati. There was an awful lot more to it than oh they gave hailwood a worn out bike
Being a spectator doesn’t prove a great deal it’s like saying that I was an the British GP in 86 so I obviously have a better understanding about what it took to get Mansells car prepped than someone who was not
Clearly nonsense. I have no more idea of the work involved than the next man. So if one of the guys intermittently involved in the event gives his account I’m much more likely to listen to him than one of the spectators. Or does that seem in someway unreasonable?
I am extremely fond of Turner as a mater of fact
My favourite painting of his is yeh Fighting Temeraire
What a yours. Don’t say your used JMWs name in vain just to make some point about IPhones 🙄
Oh those rose tinted specs
The 750ss was hen's teeth in the UK, the follow on 900ss barely more common. I remember Bike magazine reviewing one in the UK - they borrowed one owned by the landlord/owner of The Yorkist pub in Doncaster. Proved it really did exist, Mick Walker of Kings Lynn seemed to be the almost monopoly dealer of Italian bikes in the late 70s / early 80s - Ducati, Guzzi, and maybe Laverda who actually became almost popular at the time. Want a late 70s Italian? Maybe a V50
That’s the thing really their value is purely a matter of rarity value, the Guzzi for example selling in far better numbers at the time
I did enjoy the video, and agreed with your assessments of the heavy, grossly overpriced agricultural geriatric vibrators from Milwaukee. But seriously, never ride a bike without gear, especially gloves.
Fear not it’s not me. Seems to be a bit of a thing with some US riders though, well at least on video.
I never ride without full gear myself
@@bikerdood1100 Cool. I agree. One hot summer, possibly 1976, I did ride my gorgeous candy orange Honda CB250G5 in just a T shirt and jeans on the M1 to cool down 😜🙄
Then I was overtaken by a GIRL on a big Kawasaki!! I have no idea what model because she was only wearing jeans and a black bra - and a BIG SMILE!! 😁😂👀
As I get older, I do sometimes wonder if I only dreamed that scene. But no, it really happened. We raced for a while (I don’t remember much traffic), then I slowed down, and she waved to me then rode off in the fast lane. No one believed me back then, and they still don’t. It’s just jealousy. 🧐😎😜
Ride safe.
Peace
In defense of the bevel SS Ducatis, they were a fabulous riding experience with urgent power and sure, graceful handling. They did require constant attention, but once sorted they could be very reliable. I had a 750 GT while I was working as a mechanic at a Ducati importers. It was a 2-valve non-desmo and had enough power to do damage. I spent some happy idle time refining the electrics, return spring on the shift lever and other minor things. It was a joy to own. Sure the SS bikes when looked at today can be overrated in comparison to modern bikes, but you can't take away the universal visceral experience of riding such exotic machines. That's why the are valued highly
Remember the video isn’t saying they’re bad
But it’s more about the pedestal people put them on. A non Desmo model would cost less but after offer basically the same experience and be less trouble to boot. There’s an obsession with very specific models these days that fetch ludicrous prices beyond their real world worth.
Well assessed and explained. Beware the R90S. I had a relative who had one and when he checked it, it wasn't. It was a 900 with the extra bits.
The Italian bikes were and are glorious to look at. The styling and execution is mind blowing and if it wasn't for the Electrical suppliers trying to emulate Lucas, I would have one.
Like a lot of these bikes they are very easy to fake. Probably more Le Mans mk1s than ever left the factory still on y the road, that’s the problem with expensive icons it becomes another way to rip people off
Yep, just like green frame 750SS Ducati's, lots of copies out there.
I was gearing up for my ultimate back then, a R100RS, and opted intead for a Guzzi Royale: was never disappointed. The electrics were Bosch.
The Cali as shown above was a 1400 and not an 1100.......as I'm sure most realised.
I ride a1976 Ducati she still has the original ignition system and it still works perfectly. The rest of the bike has been rewired and it even works in the rain!
@@philhawley1219 Pure magic!
Wow; in 1970 I wanted the new 750 ss with its sinuously curvaceous engine covers. So beautiful, so Italian. Now I'm pleased I couldn't possibly have afforded it!! Such an interesting and informative series from yourself. 👍
Peter
Well you definitely couldn’t afford one now. The moto of the series should simply be other options are available
Maybe a 50 cal machine gun could give you a bigger grin than a Desmo 900 , but I don't think so . Which would fall apart first , not sure , but look at what else was about at the time which had speed , brakes and particularly handling . Nought from Japan , some from the UK and Italy . No wonder the Desmos are expensive , so are the Norton's .......
@@davidyendoll5903 I’d get a belt drive more modern Ducati myself, it’s better to gat where your going.
There aren’t many bikes that don’t make me grin, except a 50cc maybe.
I’m English so no guns for me thanks
I paid $109 (Australian) for my 1978 MV Agusta Monza, a 750SS (Ducati) is about twice that much and hard to find at that price. I've seen Imola Replica (AKA Green Frame) advertised for a quarter of a million (no joke). 900SS are cheaper, the reason? See my (somewhat long winded) comment above)
I bought the first, and only 750 sold in Jacksonville. It was two years old, and nobody wanted it. Melba, the lady that owned the triumph shop made me a sweet deal on it. It was the finest handling bike Ive ever threw a leg over. I still regret selling it.
Nice
I owned a 79 Ducati 900SS. In the black and gold it was a fantastic looking machine with a lovely finish if looked after. A truly special bike to ride, a proper big V twin engine with the soundtrack to match through its Conti pipes. How I wish I'd kept that one!
79 is pretty late on it must be said they’d had several years to improve on them by then
I think the Voskhod Planeta 350 was overrated. Saw one at the Stafford show with the reg no. LEN 1N. Genius.
Not sure about overrated, they have a pretty dire reputation as far as I’m aware
@@bikerdood1100 Sorry, I was being silly. I'm glad my '86 VFR750 didn't make your list!
@@oliverlotus well that wasn’t going to happen. Only ever had one Honda V4 and it was so characterful I’d definitely have an old VFR if I had the room
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned two-strokes. They are great bikes and can be reasonably reliable if maintained but if you mean over-priced rather more than over-rated, prices have gone really silly. £5000-8000 for a 45mph FS1E? Come on. Yamaha RD twins fetching £5000-10000. They are great fun but you cannot justify these prices, I would have to walk away as I could have two or three good bikes for that money. Suzuki GT750 is a nice and civilised stroker but again, sellers are asking £10000-12000 for good ones. They are not even rare, container-loads keep arriving from the USA into places like DK Motorcycles
I’m working on a video featuring the Fizzer currently. Can only fit so many in.
An earlier video does have the Mach 1 Kawasaki which didn’t go down well. People get very precious
I haven't read through the comments, but didn't the CB450 Honda have DOHC 7 years before the Z1 was released?
True it was supposed to say first 4 cylinder DOHC
It appears I got a bit over enthusiastic with the edit
The Black bomber appeared in 65 of course and had surprisingly, top end trouble
A Honda theme for all too many years
The sound of a CBX with a six into one pipe will give you goosebumps.
It is very F1
But not modern F1, the proper V8 stuff 😂
The first year z1 sold recently at auction for I believe 50k USD. My first 4 cylinder bike was a '79 SR650 with pipes and carb kit.
Well that is an obscene figure
@@bikerdood1100 restored. I will see if I can get more info. I don't even think the bike was 100% original.
@@bikerdood1100 Jan 27, 2023 at Mecum Auction. Cycledrag might have a video on the auction. 1973 z1 at Las Vegas, NV USA. @ Mecum Motorcycle Auction.
Interesting list. I once ran across an ad offering a '73 Z1 for sale, said it had been in storage for thirty years, folks selling it obviously didn't know what it was worth, they were asking only $500, of course it was gone by the time I inquired.
You would need to be quick
Really enjoy your videos. Your 💯 on Harleys, I've almost purchased the HD a few times, however my subconscious kept telling that I'll be buying an overpriced pig. The last time I was in an HD dealership I was picking up my friends daughter because she had wrecked her 1200. At that time, I looked at a Buell told the salesperson I need to leave because it was time to go home. The sales manager yelled across the showroom "What your not man enough unless you ask your wife for permission?" Such a fool I've been in the car business for over 30 years. When Indian started back up again I tried to sell a couple of bikes, it was next to impossible.
One thing Harley gat very right is marketing, they definitely know their customers
Hee hee,cannot help but notice how the headlight unit on the HD Fat Boy is very like the 'nacelle' on the old CD175! 😁
Bet the light alone cost more than a CD. Ironically the Honda will definitely out run the HD on the twisties
On balance,I'd rather have a CD175 than a HD headlight! 😆
@@bikerdood1100 so what!! I personally don't like Fatboy but my Honda is ways better than that HD you not a biker because you like HD!!Pathetic attitude!!
That's a nice comparison. Both a FatBoy and CD175 come with low ground clearance and quite poor suspension, so both tend to 'plough tarmac' if you want to push on a bit.
I really enjoyed my CD200 but lost it as part of my divorce settlement. My ex took our best two bikes (the CD and the Katana 650) and just left me with our lackluster V50.
I agree with you on the Z1, I had the Z1R, it was gorgeous to look at, but boy it handled like a camel! the bike I had before the Z1R was a Z650, and your correct it was perfect. At the time 1983 it was the dogs b*lls, and I wish I still had it. Cheers from Notts, UK
Z 650 has a great balance of speed and power
Had a Z1R also, did not need much of a excuse to break into a tankslapper !
High speed stability was poor to say the least once the front tire had started to wear. I used to run pirelli phantoms on it but the wear rate was scary, 1000 miles on the front and 600 ish on the rear. The original 4 into 1 pipe was as restrictive as hell. This was replaced with a harris 4 into 1 works pipe & K&N filters - my god what a difference ! Kick it down from 5th to 4th gear on a wet road at 70 mph, wheelspin.......Topped it out 3 times, a whisker under 150 mph on the speedo.
Got to have been a genuine 135-140 mph
On the other hand i did a long distance ride from John o groats to Exeter, thats most of the length of Britain at mostly sensible speeds pulling in 60 mpg.
Fastest miles i ever have done in any bike.
Would i have one again ? yes, but not at the prices a good one commands now.
I totally agree with your choices. Owned a late smoke R90S,loved that bike but wrecked it in 1984. Wanted to buy another one a few years ago. Would wreck my bankaccount, so I bought a R100S. In beautiful red. Better bike, but not the looks.
Smokey paint jobs were very nice
Funny story... Back in the 80's I restored, allegedly, the first Z1 imported into the UK. I was banned from driving for 6 months due to my seeing speed limits as somewhat advisory. I rode the Z1 a few times and disliked it's handling and roadholding. I worked running the workshops for a well known motorcycle dealership and chopped the big Z in for a beautiful blue CBX that had originally belonged from new by one of the directors of Honda Britain who didn't like the standard colours so had the company paint hisbike in that metal flake blue Honda used in the early 80's. The Z1 I didn't really miss but the CBX was amazing fun and very very quick. I do wish I'd had a Ducati 900SS though. I believe Ducati have designed som of the most achingly gorgeous bikes ever built. I'm still looking for that cheap 748 to buy 😍
They do say the 748 is the one to go for and it’s significantly cheaper than it’s bigger brothers
@@bikerdood1100 The prices on the 748 have sky rocketed lately. A friend had one and I couldn't find an angle it wasn't beautiful from. He offered me a go on it but I had to turn him down as I was still feeling a bit wonky from the night before lol. I really should try to find one that needs a bit of work before they're totally unaffordable.
I had two Bridgestone motorcycles one a 175cc twin and a 350cc GTR twin in the late sixties early seventies it could hold its own and more in its class. Rotary disc valves, automatic oil injection, 19inch rims and 37 hp in a 350cc, six speed transmission and controls that could reverse the side for shifting and brakes. I took the bike from Augusta Georgia to Miami Florida and was able maintain 65-70+ mph with no problems. Yes the bike was made by The Bridgestone Tire Co in Japan!
Shame for Bridgestone. The struggle to cost complete with the bigger Japanese companies and then they got pressured by the others to stop making bikes or basically we won’t buy your tyres. Given that was their core business and the bikes sold only modestly they acquiesced
Moto Guzzi’s and corners is a beautiful marriage by default. The machines are build just next to the hairpins of the Alpes (Mandello) on the borders of Lake Como. Done the Stelvio, Umbreill, and other remarkable passes with my old Guzzi cal 3. Way more agile than many other ‘fancy expensive’ bike. Lots of fun as well. Not the fastes bike on earth, but a lot of fun and reliable.
Very true
Did go to the factory a few years ago only to find it closed for August
Lesson learned
Catching up with your videos and this is another pretty accurate assessment of the reputation and value (today) of your chosen bikes. No doubting, whatsoever, the sheer beauty and magnetism of those early bevel drive Ducatis. I would put the blue and silver 900SS as quite possibly the most beautiful product bike of all. But…..I owned a Mike Hailwood Replica - brilliant handling, charismatic but unreliable. So yes, the later Pantahs lit the popular fuse and the rest is history. Those hand made BMW R90s bikes were good but overrated and I would certainly prefer any of the Le Mans bloodline (Mk 1 to 3). It’s reputation was slightly enhanced by its better turn of speed and sharper looks than their Beemer brethren….they were, after all, bought by old boys’ weren’t they? Finally, you hit the nail smack on the head centrally with your opinion of the early Z650b1 being the better all rounder than it’s bigger brother; what a bike that Z650 was, and still is, to some degree. People were sold flash, dash and glamour; of all those bikes were really as great as their marketing men would’ve had us believe.
Like a beautiful women the Bevel Drive Ducatis are very high maintenance.
My wife costs me enough without a pricey Italian mistress
I know what you mean…..
@@nigelfisher3756 😂
The Kawasaki Insert Text Here. I'm not familiar with that model! Another excellent video. Good choices although I personally would pay a LOT extra for that 6 cylinder howl.
My boy says he would but me a V twin sounds better. Amazing sound though
@@bikerdood1100 that's a tough call. V twin or six. The V twin has to have metal cans though. Carbon fibre whilst looking nice and being lighter just don't sound as good. I had 2000 TL 1000 S with metal Two Brothers cans. What a beautiful sounding bike.
I had a BMW R90/6. It was dressed in the later style tank and body work (which fit without modification) and had all the BMW of San Jose frame mods. It was a great bike that I rode for years. The only thing missing and I wish that it had was the second disk brake. The front brake on my R90/6 was a disappointment at best.
70s disc brakes were always underwhelming
@@bikerdood1100 The BMW shop I worked at got their first K bikes in and my old boss threw me the keys to a K75 and said "see how you like that?" I roared off down the street, got to the corner and grabbed a handful of front brake like I did on my R90/6. I almost crashed. The bike stood on its nose and I was looking at the ground. It was shocking.
@@JR-bj3uf well I always felt the K75 was the best of the type
@@bikerdood1100 Great bike, good power to weight, smooth and pretty stylish I thought.
Had a 1977 Ducati Darmah, was quite quick and the looks of two KTT Velocette engines, magnificent sound from the Conti pipes. Oddly enough, pretty reliable too. The only Harley I had was a Norton featherbed with a WLA bottom motor with Matchless Ohv cylinders and heads.
The Damarh is a bit underrated when compared to the earlier 750s, which is a same as the seem to have been better put together.
The Harley engined thing sounds quite the mongrel
@bikerdood1100 Italian engineering with Japanese switchgear and German ignition. An ideal combination or a mongrel nightmare? I bought my first in the late 70's and it needed a complete gearbox rebuild at 10 000 miles (by Sports Motorcycles incidentally).
I bought my second in 1987 and the electrics let me down every time I rode it. Parked it in 1991 and it's still in the garage and not ridden since though I restored it a few years ago.
A well known Ducati specialist on returning the engine to me described it as a hand grenade with the pin out.
As you rightly point out, these aren't bad machines, but the prices that are expected for them have become ridiculous.
Exactly
I grew up in Detroit during the 60s and everybody had or wanted a muscle car. Then during the 70s along comes the "Gas Crisis" and the Z1 Kaw. Guys were selling their muscle cars and buying a Z1 and a junker to drive all winter. They could take that Kaw out on Telegraph Rd and smoke everything in sight while burning a lot less gas.
Great bikes they are but early models are so overpriced today
@@bikerdood1100 Great in a straight line , but kin useless otherwise
@@davidyendoll5903 I don’t really get I’ve been to New England and they definitely have corners
Still the case today. Bikes are better performance for money!
@@Retromansite if you only buy a bike for the performance you have missed the point . Riding is about so much more than that
l owned a 900 SS in the late seventies. What you say is to some extent true however the Italian stallion would demand TLC, a fair degree of maintenance to keep a reliable machine. The other point is it was horrendously expensive compered to other bikes of its time. Mine was 2,200 pounds new...at the same time a Guzzi 850 Lemans was 1999 pounds Stirling!... Even the 250cc singles of the sixties were very expensive compared to larger Brit Bikes of the day. Lastly they coped better in sunnier climes...just about all Italian bikes suffered from the vagaries of British weather. The BMW R100RS, it was a brilliant concept of its day.
I offer the Benelli simply because there are so few six cylinder bikes to choose from, I’d take the four cylinder option every time to be honest
We All know European bikes were expensive back in the day, but this is 2023, and the question is, if your buying them Today as a classic. In that case the price of Ducati is simply out of ,ost peoples price range..
FYI if the Ducati was more affordable id still by a Le Mans, but that’s me
The irony of 70s Ducati's with their poor electrics is that Ducati was also an electronics company in Italy.
I had and restored a 82 500 Pantah, it was brilliant once I had sorted it. No charging issues, started first go on the button. However to get there needed a lot of work.
Almost no power, but handled and braked well. Lots of fun.
Yes they built Radios
The Pantah engine was pretty small capacity really but from small acorns
@@bikerdood1100 was surprised to learn they also made cameras , camera museum here in my town has one
Ducati was split after WW2 into Ducati Meccanica and Ducati Elletronica, so in the 1950s they were totally separate entities. However, later model singles (250, 350 and 450) had Ducati Elletronica ignition as did the Moto Morini at the time (3 1/2 Sport and Strada). It's not great and my 1974 450 was retrofitted to points by the previous owner; Agree with you about the Pantah, I had one and I truly regret selling it. After 4 years riding (even some touring) it still had the original fuses, not a speck of bother and a great "little" bike
@@jeffpiper7430 also office intercoms, electric shavers, radio sets, including transmitter/receiver for the military. Ducati started in 1923 making condensers (aka capacitors) for Marconi. The company was split into 2 distinct and separate entities after WW2, being Ducati Elletronica and Ducati Meccanica. The Ducati brothers were removed from control of the company by the Italian government and one of the brothers (Adriano?) went to the USA and worked on the Apollo project
I once owned an aircraft that used Ducati electronics,motor was a KFM112 and everything was marked,coils (4) alternator the lot..
Love the looks and sounds of a CBX - I can still recall the first time I ever saw one, but always thought the also very attractive "Eurostyle" CB900F was a better all-round superbike from Honda.
Indeed it was. The sound of the six cylinder bike is their main selling point. On the road a four is better really
OK I never owned either bike but I have seen both going around The Gooseneck on the Isle of Man.
The CBX seemed a bit skittish while the CB900 seemed planted.
@@g8ymw I think people like that it has lots of exhausts and makes a cool sound
That’s about it
What blows my mind is that they put ALL that work into that engine, and only made it 1000cc. It's like they wanted to fiddle around with all sorts of quirky engineering tricks to make a very Swiss-Watch-meets-Rube-Goldberg machine, but not actually make that engine spit out the horsepower that six cylinders would imply.
I managed to snag a KZ1300 for myself, and while the styling is very love it or hate it, you can't fault an engine that is simple as a brick to work on (basic parts are repeated more often, but not inherently more complicated) but puts out 120hp at the crank. The CBX is a small bike wearing a lot of filigree. The KZ1300 is a cinderblock- visually boring, but capable of doing a heck of a lot of damage when it gets moving.
@@michaelglinski3809 remember it was based on a 250 original
Agree about the Z650, had one back in the early 80's, really great bike. Good one's are quite hard to find nowadays ,most are KZ650 imports from America. Kawasaki made a mistake with their new retro Z650rs doesn't look or sound right with a water cooled parallel twin. hopefully they will put it right with their new 400cc 4 cylinder if they decide to make a retro version. I think the thing these classic bikes have over modern bikes is they have character and a soul. I have two bikes a Honda cx500 and a Moto Guzzi Bellagio and both these bikes put a smile on my face every time I ride them. I don't remember the CX feeling fast back in the late 70's early 80's but for 50bhp it seems pretty quick now, probably because I'm over 60 and everything seems fast. I would suggest trying a classic before buying a modern bike especially if you don't need to ride it everyday, it will probably cost a lot less and provide loads more enjoyment, I guess it depends on whether you feel you want to have all the modern safely aids such as ABS etc.
I think what makes the CX feel quick is that, well for me as you get older you can’t be bothered with all that gear change business and the torque of that v twin means you can power out of corner without fussing around with the gear box
Totally agree with you. I currently have a 1978 Z650 B2 and it’s a joy to ride, it still turns heads and the kids think it’s far better than the modern bikes.
To be fair, the Honda CB 450 Black Bomber had just as many camshafts and was just as much mass produced as the Z1 Kawasaki but in production 6-7 years earlier than the Kawasaki.
And Torsion Bars instead of conventional coil valve Springs.
But of course only 2 cylinders. A rather stupidly edited that point out about it being the first four cylinder so equipped. That’ll teach me
Whoops
The GS1000 @4.38 is stunning.
I like them
Arnie also rode a GPZ500 in True Lies. Nobody ever talks about that.
I expect not 😂
And a Honda four in terminator 1
I know it's a very difficult question with each bike having different qualities,
But what bike did you own that was your favorite
👍🍀🇮🇪
I’ve had too many
You always love you first big bike though so I’ll say Guzzi V50, so many great memories
Maybe I should put together our top ten
No there’s an idea 💡
A better alternative to any bevel-drive Ducati would be the Guzzi LeMans (yes, also works for the BMW), which can easily and cheaply be made bulletproof by changing out some of the electrics/switchgear. My '78 model just passed 80K miles and is one of the most reliable and low-maintenance motorcycles I've ever owned (and I'm old enough to have owned a LOT of bikes, was even a dealer in the 1980s).
The Honda CB450 predates the Z-1 by several years and had DOHC!
R100RS is DRAMATICALLY better than the R90S, if not so pretty...and usually cheaper.
I had a '79 CBX with a few mods (flat bars, rear set pegs, 6-into-2 exhaust)...it would pass anything on the road except a gas station or a place that sold chains and tires! Fun to ride with that F1 style noise at full chat, but you didn't want to think about doing a valve adjustment. We used to joke about Japanese mechanics hands: palms 2" wide, with 10" fingers with about 8 joints. I dunno about the Benelli as an alternative: if you think CBX parts are rare and expensive, you haven't tried to source ones for the Sei!
ANY Harley is a crap shoot, as few of them are unmodified and replacement parts can be quite dear (and that's in the USA), not to mention reliability issues...and then there is the price. Kind of like that dim-witted but pretty girlfriend - nice to look at, but not much fun to ride.
As a Guzzi addict myself my answer to any over priced classic is a Guzzi, but I can’t say that in every video
For me non of the 6 cylinder bikes are particularly credible, so I’d go for a classic four instead because sometimes less is more.
The Honda was DOHC but not a 4 of course.
Would I buy any of the big bore HDs. Well no because we have corners
@@bikerdood1100 l owned a Guzzi 850 Lemans...this was a great bike, looked like it was doing 120mph on the centre stand... it sounded wonderful...its handling, like most Italian bikes was superior to many Japanese bikes of the day...They just didn't like British weather.....they longed for their native climate and countryside....
@@bikerdood1100 But is a Le Mans - especially a mk1 (even more especially early batch...) cheap, now? I'm being particular on the version, as if you're comparing, then the mk1 is rather equivalent to the bmw r90s and then, when you're settling for mk2s etc, why wouldn't you be equally satisfied with an also-cheaper R100s (say)? I love Guzzis, but if you're going after the classics, many will want the classic version, else you could get something modern and actually quick for much less.
@@villiamo3861 unfortunately they are on the up but no where near Ducati super sport prices. Currently.
Thankfully less sporty options remain reasonable ish. T3 or standard R BMWs would definitely be a smart move
@@bikerdood1100
Late 90s Cali? Early teens Custom? Eldorado?
The R90S you showed really needs it's valves adjusted properly, sounds like too much endplay of the rockers.
Sounds like an R90 then
@@bikerdood1100 the rockers are the same, but it sounded like too much endplay of the rocker arm end blocks.
Another bike that is overrated is the Ducati single, particularly the 450. Back in the mid 80’s they were almost mythical among Ducati owners. Being sucked in by the hype I bought a 1974 model and it was crap! It was a pig to start and once started, was almost impossible to keep running until the engine warmed up. It vibrated like a road drill and bits used to regularly vibrate off. I lost a footrest (fortunately found it afterwards), the silencer and worst of all, one of the rear wheel spindle nuts. Fortunately, I was a toolmaker, so made a new spindle with castellated nuts and secured them with R clips. Worst of all though, for someone in their early 20’s, I could not get more than 70 out of it. In the end I took it to a specialist in Ducati singles, but even after that, it was no quicker. It looked cool, but it was crap.
The bevel drive bikes in general are overrated, the belt drive engines are much better
@Turnipstalk the vibration was terrible, 20 miles was about the maximum range because my hands would start to get numb. I lived in Norwich then and a trip to Snetterton racetrack was a bit too far, really uncomfortable. The exhaust pipe mounting nut used to vibrate undone, so I had to drill a couple of holes and wire it on.
It would usually start easily enough, if the piston was in exactly the right place when I kicked it over, but I would always have to hold the throttle open a bit or it would cut out until the engine warmed up.
However, even though it had all these shortcomings, I did like it.
In the 80s I bought every Kawa Z1, KZ900, KZ1000 I could lay my hands on. There were loads of em for sale that wouldn't start or needed work from 300 to 500 bucks--lots of em! I could improve em easily and cheaply and sell em for 1200-1500 bucks. It was fun and profitable.
Well they had bomb proof engines, by reputation which would have helped onward sale. I’ve generally found that problems with a lot of Japanese bikes tend to be electrical. They have to make savings somewhere ultimately and it seems that items like alternators and regulator rectifiers can be a weakness. This is handy of course because they are usually easily fixed.
I suppose the other big problem stateside is the tendency for bikes to be laid up for very long periods which is never good
Nuvver wise list - some of these are by no means bad (having character at least), but are overrated and over priced now, as you have so eloquently described!
Exactly
All great bikes but they don’t live up to their lofty reputations and price, no bike could
Really enjoyed the vid thanks. Would still love to own a CBX1000, pockets are not deep enough unfortunately.
Not many people do have pockets deep enough.
Any 6 sounds amazing but apart from sound and number of exhaust pipes are they really any better than a four ?
Back in the day not many people were sold on them
@@bikerdood1100 probably not but it's the look really. Had a long chat with the CBX owners at the last Stafford Bike show. They had the faired touring model on stand that the owner said Honda couldn't sell in the day.
People ride different bikes for different reasons. Comparing Harley and Indian to the other bikes is apples and oranges. I’ve been riding for 50 years and have owned and ridden more bikes than I can remember, I currently ride an Indian Chief. A heavy, expensive monster of a bike that I love dearly nonetheless. Also I’ve never had anyone ask me if they could photograph any of the Japanese bikes I owned. That seems to happen often with the Indian.
A bike needs to be able to be effective as a bike
Apples and oranges are a little different but the are both good
A bike still needs to be able to perform the basic task of taking a corner without scrapping metal at anything above walking pace.
A bike should be a practical device if it can’t even mange a little light traffic or get you to your destination without breaking its ornamental value only.
I don’t buy a motorcycle to impress other people as an aside, I ride for my own enjoyment, if someone like one of mu old classics or my Italian stallion, I could care less
@@bikerdood1100
Like I said, people ride different bikes for different reasons. I don’t expect or want my Indian to ride or handle like a sport bike. I don’t have any problem in the corners and have never scraped metal.
I’ve hade different bikes like I said but being in my sixties and having broken most parts of my body at one time or another, a cruiser is what I can ride without having to call an ambulance after the first hundred miles.
It’s beautiful and rides nice.
@@Queequeg61 like a bike would be nice though I think
I don’t ride sport bikes for the record
I always found it very easy to scrape footboards when riding borrowed 1990s era FatBoys and Heritages but I eventually progressed to trying to corner fast and smooth without grounding anything except the outsides of my boots.
I'm told that leaving over even more can ground the swinging arm pivots on those softails - leading to some exciting slides, but never experienced that myself.
At least with my riding abilities, I usually found that the ground clearance of other Harleys was not a limiting factor when touring over the UK and Europe. I'd also say that, for long distance touring, and especially if two up, a Sportster is the least desirable Harley to have. That's not to say that you cannot do 500+ miles in a day on a Sporty, but it will be far less of an ordeal on a Big Twin.
I built an 860GT out of three parts bikes. They were ugly and unloved but mine, being a non-desmo, was reliable as a brick. I even took it to a track day and had a slow but hugely fun blast on it. To be fair I always lusted after a MHR.
It is strange they made the GT so plain looking compared to the rest
@@bikerdood1100 I did mine all in black to mask the ugly lines. I did the name plates in gold. It actually looked pretty good.
@@JR-bj3uf nothing says the 70s like a black and gold paint job, in a good way
Of course if we’re looking purely what a bike DOES better ,than another machine ,even if it’s of the era it doesn’t account for how it makes a rider FEEL, or how it was looked upon in its day ,and after all most classic bikes are owned by people who either had or lusted after a particular machine in its day. Also the reputation, and /or the looks of a bike holds an enormous sway over its value in future years. As an example your comparison of the Kawasaki z1 ( I owned a z1 B) and the Suzuki GS 1000 doesn’t take in to consideration the afore mentioned vital considerations. I remember very well first seeing a Z1 , and I’ll never forget it, and seeing one accelerate past me is driven even deeper . The Gs1000 however was almost invisible in comparison, and in my eyes anyway just looked boring. The 1100 katana however although nowhere near as attention grabbing as the Z1 was a much better comparison, and as one owner told me in the 80s “ it handles like it’s on rails and it certainly grabbed your attention . When it comes to value ( or in some cases rarity) reputation and folk lore is king , and looks help a great deal to . Pre unit Bonnie , Honda 750 , Kawasaki triples ,( we all know about them!) Z1 ,Ducati 900ss ( looks ,sound, handling,brakes, every body new about the finish and reliability issues but would buy one like a shot if had the money) , ect,ect. A bike is worth every penny that someone is willing to pay ,and in most cases quite a few are willing to pay . Yes the Gs 1000 is a better bike than the Z1 ,but you can pick up a rough GS 1000 today at a far lower price than the Z1, so over rated ? if classics were rated on capability there wouldn’t be a classic movement, what would be the point ,buy a modern bike ? The rating system is entirely different for classics .Flawed is a better word I think. As you can no doubt tell I had absolutely nothing to do tonight LOL! Love the channel👍👍
Well two of my bikes are much older than me and I didn’t lust after them in my youth
I wanted a Katana or a Le Mans.
I’ve ridden a lot of classic bikes after getting into them almost by accident.
I have to say that I enjoy ridding pretty much anything. I’m not convinced that spending more will always bring greater joy. In my experience the opposite is all too often the case. My old BSA is not my oldest or my most expensive bike I’ve ever owned by any means but it is the one I enjoy the most.
The whole point of the video is that bikes like the Z have become far to expensive so looking at credible alternatives is for many their only option
Looks are a personal thing in my youth I never thought of the Suzuki as boring
I do prefer the look of the Katana to the Z to be honest, I really hate the new one though Suzuki have missed the looks of the original by a mile.
Very informative video.....thank you.
The cvx1000 always looked top heavy to me. Cornering with a wide engine like that requires some extra ground clearance.....any thoughts?
They were generally ok by the standards o& the day, ground clearance wasn’t the worst, BMW boxers no better and Harley much worse. The engine isn’t as wide as it appears compared to the fours of the time at least. It would be mighty expensive to fix if it was dropped however.
Hard to imagine that it was nimble even by late 70s standards
@@bikerdood1100 Thanks for the response👍
Always differences between what people like but the R100RT as a tourer was the best boxer twin touring bike. The RS riding position was not good for me. Ok at high speed but a pain for lock and even back road riding and a bit cramped. As they didn't have the footrests far enough back for the bar position. Also you still got buffering from the screen. The RT was a grand tourer with great weather and wind protection. The fairing on both the rs and RT provided down force on the front that helped high speed handling. You could see that the headlight beam would lower at speed. Most of the naked bikes actually force more weight on the back wheel at speed. I had a z1000st that you needed two lanes on the motorway at high speed and felt like it was aquaplaning at the front in the wet at speed. Not that handling was ever any good anyway but what a motor. The z650 was one of the best overall Japanese bikes I ever rode as a package with good power, torque and reasonable handling.
Don't really think of the leman as a touring bike but a great bike for long sweeping bendy roads. The ride is good at speed but a pain in town and in traffic. The best handling bike I ever rode was a pantah rev it till you thought it would blow up and ride it hard on the corners. What speed would it do, never had the time to look at the clocks had my eyes fixed to the road plotting the setup for the next corner. Great scratching bike.
Best long distance tourers for comfort and less tiring over distance were the BMW's compliant suspension, long legs and in the case of the RT a very comfortable bike. I enjoyed your best and worst series and agree with most of your advice. Keep up the good videos 👍
I think that all biker need at least three bikes in the garage as each bike is different for different roads but I still think for the money and overall riding a Z650 is very hard to beat as an all rounder.
It took another forty or so years befor 'down force' was applied once again to streamlining... the Beemers fairing design was way ahead of its time...
The Rt was a great bike, police forces across Europe can’t be wrong
I have ridden a Z650 and I have to say I was very impressed
Two RT 100 RTs a K1000LTHs and finslly anR65, the Rts were the best of that lot for touring but the 65 does very well as an in town commutor.
We have all of these bikes in my club......the stand out is the R90 ..old mate has owned one since new in 73 done heaps and heaps of miles unrestored and still a good reliable ride. Riding in little Britain is a different story than the wide open spaces of Australia 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
😂
We have a continent 21 miles away
You Colonials and you crap understanding of Geography
I’ve travelled all over said Europe and even did a bike trip in India
All without a BMW we did have one and it Broke down
In Europe shitty thing
😂😂😂😂😂
Never been to Australia to be honest
But I don’t have a criminal record so not sure I’d fit in
Is it still a requirement?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I had a 1975 900SS as my "get to work/summer" vehicle (winter get to work was a 66 Cooper S) from about 83 to 92, and it was just brilliant.
I bought my first Ducati about 1981, a 1976 860 GT, and it was very cheap, as needed work. I had it for a year, and realised I needed an SS.
So I bought the 900SS, and it was fabulous. It was cheaper than half the Equiv Japanese bikes, because of "all the reliability" rumours. Like I said, mine was great and I never had any trouble with it. I have always maintained my own cars/bikes (4 cars/4 bikes at the moment) and, again, the "horror stories about so complicated/strange design"; I never had any problems. Anybody who did - when I spoke to them, they just didn't understand how they worked/what they were doing, so THAT was the problem.
If you get a boilermaker to overhaul your Rolex.......................... and it then doesn't work, would you blame the Rolex?????
After that they went soft. Down to 32mm carbs from 40mm, stifling pipes, mag wheels. No one liked Darmahs when they were new, (people bought sportys bikes from Ducati, and the Darmah was a more a GT) and Pantahs didn't sell (here they had lots of burnt holes in pistons as it is hot here). The last 900SS's with everything watered down were selling new at a Ducati dealer here in 1982 for $3,995, and they had ten they could NOT sell, as everyone waiting for the new model. Then it came out ......................................... and those ten SS's sold in a week - and within a year were changing hands for a grand over the 4 they were new, as the S2 was seen as even softer.
I paid 2 grand (AUD, I am in Australia) for my SS, sold it for 5 grand; When I bought it, I asked the guy "If this is so good, how come no one has bought it?" He said "3 guys tried it, couldn't ride it." What the???? They couldn't handle the limited steering lock, and the "gear change on the wrong side." Pfft. And now it has just been rebuilt to as new after the bloke who bought from me used to ride it everywhere with his dog on the tank. One similar sold for almost 200 grand in the US, and two basket cases that haven't gone for 20 years sold for 50 grand each.
Only reason I sold mine was I got married and then wife said it had to go. I would have kept it forever, it was the best bike I have ever had/ever ridden.
A work mate had a Laverda Jota, and we would occasionally dice along the backroads in the bush on the way home. He left me on any straight, but any corner the SS left him behind. Jota's are great, but need to be taken by the scruff of the neck. My mate was a better rider than me, but my bike was quicker overall than his.
But I LOVE the "these cars/bikes are CRAP" things. If not for that.................... I could never have afforded/experienced them. 🙂 Each to their own.
You probably should have watched paid more attention then
Don’t believe I said any of bikes in the video are crap in fact in the opening sentence I say exam the opposite
Seems to me you heard what you wanted from the video
One of the main points is that these bikes are stupidly overpriced
Total crazy
The point is No bike is good enough to be worth that money
I could suggest a few underrated more easily,..ducati 350 desmo singles..great for what they do..handle and go so well and poor finish on panels was ok as the important parts were superb and they also reliable. Mine was a daily rider and weekend joy I built from boxes of bits,..broke down once only in 5 years,slogging to work in traffic it cheered a 50cent crankshaft woodruf key...no other damage.They are easy to work on despite the hype..even the zero clearance desmo valve setting...baby manx but better .
Not better
Different a Manx was never a road bike after all
Finally somebody talking reality on some bikes with way inflated reputations. Re the Z900, it had a hinge in the middle, because of Kawasaki’s treatment of rear shocks as decorative only, and a lacklustre top end. Slower in the intervals above 130kph than a pushrod Guzzi 750S, they were difficult to ride fast in the twisty bits. Inferior in every sense to the Suzuki GS1000S, for example.
It took a while for the Japanese to really get to grips with chassis design
The Suzuki GS 750 is generally recognised as the first Japanese Superbike that could live with the European competition through the twisties.
In the case of the big Z the frame and suspension couldn’t cope with the power and mass and of course they fitted the thing with high bars which made the situation worse.
And really the Japanese continued in the same way in the 80s more and more power and weight too little chassis
Who knows why it took them so long to catch on
My 81 Hailwood was my dream bike, saved and saved then finally got one new, my alternator lasted a week, no warranty then but they did it at cost but I had to fit it with borrowed tools in Frasers car park 😄
Then the big end failed at 4000k despite Penrite 50 changed every 1000k.
Was a lovely bike though once sorted despite rock hard Marzochi suspension and wooden Brembo's.
Traded in a MK2 LeMans on it, would love that back😊
Stiff suspension is an Italian standard in my experience, all part of the fun
Love the Hailwood replica use I have to say
But I’d take the Guzzi, I’m biased 😂
A friend of mine is selling his LeMans II. (If not sold, by now.) He's located near the city of Lemgo, Germany.
Owned both a 1981 Darmah and a 1978 900ss in black and gold, both now long gone. Stating that a 900ss is over rated is probably an exercise in irrelevance. It just doesn't matter when you lived with one. The point is that they were fantastic bikes. As for the Darmah, it was as much of a pain in the arse as 900ss was when it didn't want to co-operate. They both required the same investment in TLC and in return for that high maintenance input received a damn good hammering on a daily basis.
Looking back through the mists of time and rose tinted spectacles, they were a hell of a lot of fun, especially the 900ss, that induction roar on full throttle.....
But the
How much does an SS cost today compared to a Darmah for example. The asking prices are utter madnesses and are part of the inflated reputation
I through my rode tinted glasses away
@@bikerdood1100 Comparing the current cost of the two is irrelevant outside of the fact that they are now historical collectors machines.
They were two very different beasts with different performances and reasons for existence, right out of the box, despite their similar seeming engines. There were differences for a number of reasons. The 900ss was Ducati's bog standard production racing bike, no mods required. The Darmah and GTS were most definitely not in that league. Their engines were subtly different internally and the GTS was not a Desmo.
You cant even begin to compare the two, in the same way you attempt to compare a GTS and a 900ss. Then the fact that the reliability issues with all Italian motorcycles of the 1970's and early 80's went right across the board.
Is its reputation inflated though? No, I think that you'll find that that perceived inflated reputation is nothing more than your own personal opinion. Go and read any of the media literature from its time and you will understand that it is just your opinion. It is the same when you recommend a Jarama over a Jota, because they too are very different beasts. Then ask the folks who owned and ran Italian motorcycles. You weren't buying into reliability when you went Italian, no, you were buying into something a bit more intangible and a 900ss was in there.
1970's: Moto Guzzi, Laverda, Morini, Ducati, Benelli. You didn't buy one for the reliability factor, no one ever did.
@@bikerdood1100 The only thing that I can add is that you are conflating the current cost of entry into ownership of all of these bikes with "over rated" and having an "inflated reputation". It is not the same thing.
The one thing that your "over rated" bikes all have in common was that they all raised the bar and changed the expectations of the performance curve.
The price of entry to current ownership is due to their now historical benchmarks.
@@fuzzle9392 inflated prices stem from inflated reputations. Also Ducati didn’t sell many bikes so value is based on rarity as much as quality ditto ? Many other bikes of the period are valued far less simply because they sold much better and far more survive but are in fact much better machines
As for other Italian bikes laverda by reputation had much better build quality(fact) and Moto Guzzi’s were always much more reliable. Le Mans 1 or an SS for me it’s an easy choice and many during the 70s too.
@@bikerdood1100 No. None of your points matter nor have any real relevance.
You are trying to quantify the subjective intangible qualities of legendary icons. They are what they are in the collective historical consciousness and "reliability" or whatever doesn't even matter.
If you want "reliabilty" buy into the bland seamless boredom of the safe. I enjoyed the unpredictability of my Ducati's. They had qualities that brought joy to the table, especially my 900ss.
I basically gave my old beast away in 2006 after I ran it for the last time in 1999. It was a well used non runner with gummed up carbs and rusted out Conti's in need of some serious cash being spent on it. The chap who got it was after it for years and spent a lot of money bringing it back to life. Then he hermetically sealed it vacuum packed as an object of worship.
it's a shame you didn't let us really listen to the exhaust note from the conti equipped Ducati twins. A soul stirring sound forever memorised. In Australia they sold like hot cakes, before the Suzuki and Kawasaki 4s got a foothold. As I remember back there were few 750s but lots of 860s (normal valve spring heads) and 900s (desmo heads, still 860cc).
They were kickstart which required holding your tongue right, except the GTS860 models which had starter motors. . which rarely worked. The 860 and 900 models all had Italian electronic ignition which in the early days was unreliable. As long as owners ran penzzoil straight 50wt the engines were surprisingly tough . .but use a multi grade and the bigends exploded. Hope this is of some interest. cheers.
To be honest it’s quite an old video
It’s something I like to include in my more recent stuff
We all enjoy a good exhaust note I find
Sound quality is thankfully something we’ve improved since then too 😂
Back in the early 80's I was riding a P&M Panther 650😅 which was a product of the 50s and 60s. It was a single-cylinder sloper 650, a sidecar hauler, which I was riding solo while waiting for a new set of sidecar linkages. Despite shortening the trail - achieved by rotating the fork-ends through 180 degrees - after removing wheel and axle which gave around 3" trail shortened it was still a pig to handle solo. It was for that reason that I turned down a biker's plea to ride my big cat.
We all hung out at a small cafe in the bus station in Cheltenham and it was a transitory kind of place. Usually outside were the usual suspects - a Triumph or two, Nortons, Beezers and at the other end of the scale, Honda step-thru C90s and a clutch of 250cc L-riders, Japanese metal mostly. And this guy who was fixated on trying out on my tired old single. After about a week I took him out to ride it and he went off for about 20 minutes and had a good time.
So imagine my surprise when he turned up on the Monday riding a brand-new Z1 insisting that I should have a go to repay my kindness. I didn't know what to do. Clearly he wanted me to have a crack at this monster four, and I felt he would be offended if I didn't take him up on the offer. The thing is I was only five and a half feet tall. Eventually I launched out into the traffic and made a circuit of the lower Promenade, certainly faster than ever before, which only convinced me that if I ever rode one regularly I would certainly die before I grew old. I never told him how I leaned against a bus when the traffic stalled at the lights 'cos I just couldn't get my feet to the floor!
If you watch my video on how to ride a bike and side car you can see us with a m100 outfit
@@bikerdood1100 Oh splendid. 😎 Can I ask you for a link?
I was fortunate enough to own a 1976 900ss. I put over 40,000KM on that wonderful machine.
In that time the only thing that needed replacing was the stator plate.
Compared to all the other bikes I owned none of them came close to the Duke for looks, handling and just plain fun.
Not convinced on looks
Pretty yes
Most beautiful I’ve ever seen
Definitely not
Bevels were expensive and difficult to make
40 k is only 25,000 miles
A lot for a Duke I expect
Hampered our a hell of a lot more and my Guzzi all over Europe with nay a problem
I’m guessing you are a fair bit younger than myself (68) . Our different viewpoints are healthy for the classic bike movement, and understandable. We both love these old bikes and nobody is more right or wrong than the other ,it’s what matters to us personally that counts ?
Well I’m mid 50s.I’m just worried that giving a narrow selection of machines just drives up costs. If younger riders can’t afford classic bikes then it’s over.
Yes variety is important. I thought you were younger than that going by your voice on the vids . All the best
As usual, context is everything. So please define "overrated". I might agree with you on the "Fat Boy" though. It isn't half the bike a Sturgis is, for instance. But the rest? Nah.
I believe I do that in the opening
I think that so many people disagree when it’s about a bit many may never have even seen kind of proves the point.
If a Classic for example now commands a price way above its actual worth, well that would qualify for me. The Ducati is pretty but the fact is 5he bevel drive bikes simply aren’t as good as what came later.,Complex, temperamental they can be a very expensive money pit
@@bikerdood1100
Oh, so you mean overpriced, not overrated.
honda c90 great bike but 1500 quid for a 30 year old 90cc bike seems very silly to me.
I’m thinking the same thing
I can definitely feel a video in that
Recently I added a CBX to my stable and as an owner I can't really disagree with what you say. It is probably fair to say that the Suzuki GS1000 of the same period was a better all round ltr bike from a riding viewpoint (probably the best). And also Honda's own CB900F. But people like me don't buy something like a CBX because we believe it is or was the best. I love it for the shere silliness of it, for want of a better phrase. It is actually a very nice bike to ride though and I don't find that it feels particularly heavy or bulky. But then I also have a couple of Goldwings (GL1000 and GL1800) and compared to the 1800 it feels like a handy sized bike.
Only ever rode an 1100 Goldwing and that was more than heavy enough for me
@@bikerdood1100 Actually the 1800 DCT isn't as intimidating as many people think. It is heavy but very well balanced and easy to handle. Even putting it up on the stand is easy for a 10st, 5'6" tiddler like me :) Just don't try riding it like a sports bike. Ridden the way it is intended to be ridden it handles very well. You should try one. I think you would be pleasantly surprised even if it isn't your kind of bike.
@@iannicholson9875 seems an awful lot of money and metal to accomplish what could be done with far less
@@bikerdood1100 That is true to an extent. If you go to the other extreme you could do it all on a moped. It isn't about what you can do it is about how you can do it. I was very sceptical until I tried one and, like many others, was converted as soon as I rode one. Too many people judge them without ever having ridden one. Of course they are not for everyone but what bike is?
@@iannicholson9875 not a moped
But a later Ducati .
Most fun bike I’ve ever ridden was a Honda NSR 250
Only 45hp but so light and nimble
Less can be more
I have three z650's, my favourite bike of the 70's, they have character, good video.
Probably the best of the Zeds of course those who think more CcS are always better are unlikely to admit it
A Harley can beat any bike on the road on acceleration, cornering, handling and braking. A Ninja h2 would have zero chance against a Harley. Ask a Harley rider from the US and they will set you straight.
🤣🤣🤣
A fair Amount of drinking goes on Stateside I’m guessing 😂😂😂
I am wondering what fantasy world you are living in?
Great comment, for fiction.
Any Harley rider in the US can explain the advantages of those over a Japanese bike. I ride a Ninja 1000sx and could care less what anyone rides. The superiority that Harley riders feel over everyone else and the fact that they think riding one automatically makes them a Hells Angel is just ridiculous .
Thanks very much for this. I do very much agree with your comments on the Ducati , Harley and Honda. In the late 70s and 80 I was very keen on the Ducati but Honda came out with the new 750 that had more power and handle very well. Next came the CBX 1000 which was beautiful but not very practical and I was always worried about the valve adjustment service. The CBR 900 F came along and it was lighter had about the same horsepower and was in my budget! It was a great bike and owned it until the CBR1000 F came along and then I broke down and bought that one. I rode that one for years and it was the best bike I ever owned. Thanks for your channel!
Thanks for the comment, very interesting
The sound of that big V-twin from idle all the way to it's 5,000(?)RPM redline & the street cred, thanks to outlaw bikie clubs is why people love Harleys. Especially black ones. I call them 2-wheel tractors.
Well not everyone loves them
Back in the very early '80s I wanted to buy a bevel drive Duke .There were 2 dealers where I lived and neither one wanted to sell me one because they didn't want the hassle of dealing with the warranty work they new it would generate. On that basis went for a different brand.
That’s why the Guzzi Le Mans is so much less expensive now, people went for those instead
The Z1 didn't arrive in the UK until 1973 and apparently only 39 were officially imported. 1974 saw the Z1A. I race one in 1975. 👍
That’s nice
I’m from the Uk
But it’s not all about us now is it
Perhaps they are just overpriced rather than overrated, yet I will nominate the BMW R80 G/S and its successor the R100GS. The R80 G/S was quite innovative, the first BMW to be equipped with a single-sided swing arm, the Monolever. It provided BMW’s first ever win at in the Paris-Dakar Rally in 1984. However, I’m not sure that this warrants the floor of the value range being over $10000 USD for a less than pristine example and well into the $20000+ USD for a pristine example.
The R100 GS is only slightly better. There were a lot more of those made, but their average sale price is around $9000 USD and can go up very quickly from there. The first Oilhead GS bike, the R1100 GS can be found for half that much for a decent specimen.
I’ve put over 220,000 miles on seven BMWs which included 2 early K-bikes and five Oilhead R-bikes. I have always desired to own an R100 GS as a “just for fun, not a daily driver,” motorcycle, but not at those kind of prices.
Given the value that gets placed on some of these things when equally good machines are far more affordable I’d argue that the two are indelible linked
I can remember seeing new CBXs selling for knock down prices when the novelty wore off . There was one in the local dealers shop that sat there for years .
Well the novelty wore out pretty fast
Believe they sold around 27,000
By Honda standards that’s disastrous
By comparison Triumph sold more T150s and Norton more than twice as many Commandos
The CBX looked and sounded great, but had its problems. The bike was very top heavy, which discouraged sporting riding. My 1979 Yamaha XS 1100 could consistently beat the CBX in street drag races. The Honda was smaller displacement, and had less low end torque, making it more difficult to launch. The shaft drive on the Yamaha was very strong, but also caused its own handling problems when pushed. Both bikes were good for around 135 mph tops and 11.7 second quarter mile times.
@@Anatoli50 One problem of the CBX was it's reputation for the far right zylinder (or better: crankshaft) to break. Only found out when I stopped for a stranded CBX owner. He told me that this problem was kinda common.
The 900SS was known to blow up around 20000 miles. The big ends were a weakness and i heard that from mechanic in the trade from the mid 1960s. The 500cc Ducati Pantah was a much better design of engine even without the bevel gears to the camshafts. A very expencsive but what a beautiful bike based on the 750SS raced by Paul Smart but i cant believe how much the Mike Hailwood replica 900SS are selling for now. They are like the MV Agusta 750 four, hugely desired by collectors. The racing spec BSA rocket 3 triples are way cheaper and in my opinion beautiful, iconic like Slippery Sam the T160 racers of Triumph. Didnt they win the transatlantic races around the early 1970s?
Probably not mid 60s
Pantah was superior to the bevels , no doubt about that
The BSA/ Triumph triples were very successful in formula 750, well until they banned bikes that had were out of production
Honda had to find some way to win 😂
Great choice on alternative to Harley can think of couple more from same company
I could think of quite a few myself. Harley needs a full video of its own at some point
a mate owns a green frame duk which he bought new and kept ever since , his main complaint is that its worth so much money now days hes not game to take it out , its worth more than what it cost him to build his house ,you are right about better to get the later models of the icons as besides price they have had a lot of the bugs worked out BUT the collectors want the first model most of the time .. bugs and all ... speaking of bugs ..ridden a few harleys but never owned one so when one came up cheap recently i thought better to put my money where my mouth is and bought it ..1998 1200 sporty with low kls .. kept it 2 months and then got rid of it ..was not impressed
Collectors
They ruin everything. Bikes should be for riders
@@bikerdood1100 true but then again im not so much a collector but more as a hoarder .. lol they breed
@@jeffpiper7430 depends if there an investment or an obsession
you say about the big HD s bad fuel consumption. I've owned the 09 FXD 94 cube 6 speed dyna super glide stage one kit from brand new it averages 320kms from 19 liters. ....been on runs with guys running 650 cc cruisers using more fuel than the Harley ....but your right about performance ...nothing compared to big four cylinder bikes I've owned in the past...
All I can say about consumption was that the average for your bike is no where near what you getting. The average for you pr bike is nearer the low 40s in terms of MPG (British)
Which should see your tank completely empty in 275km of 172miles so if you are managing that then your batting way above average.
@@bikerdood1100 have u ever owed the Fxd 09 fuel injected ?if not how would u know?
@@jamiegreenwood7996 check out fuely
Owners fill the thing in with their own dated.I’ve checked it against several of my own bikes over the years and it tallies pretty well.
It’s very useful because it makes some of the makers claims nonsense
@@bikerdood1100 My experience was that all the Harleys I owned returned over 50 mpg at legal speeds but cruising at 90 mph caused the fuel consumption to plummet to about 30 mpg.
So glad you included Hardley Davidson horrible motorcycles.
Oh that does divide opinions, very polarising are the big HDs
Haha. Think youre nitpicking. Few bikes handled in the 70s. Id be happy with a shed full of 750 Dukes, 900 Kwakas, R90S BMs, and CBXs...haha. All legends...
Oh some did handle, indeed they did
But rather sounds like you’ve missed the point here.
@@bikerdood1100 haha. We never agree. I rode my mates R90S it went hard but front forks were terrible...I had a 750S Guzzi...now that handled. I watched Hailwood on a Desmo Duke in a 3hr production race where I live...bloody magic...
No coincidence that most are aspirational bikes of the 1970s. Most guys couldn't afford one back then, but with some spare cash in later life they can re-live their youthful fantasies. This pushes prices into bidding war territory, and beyond any reasonable assessment of their value as motorcycles. A similar thing happened with older motorcycles in the 70s and 80s, as Goldstars and Venoms went from affordable classics to collector baubles.
That is the problem in a nut shell, why would younger riders be interested in bikes they can nether afford. Not good for long term survival
@@bikerdood1100 1970s motorcycles were a mug's eye full in many cases. Spindly frames and forks, acres of exhaust, but just count those ccs. Later bikes were much better sorted - as were many previous ones - however the form factor still has a lot of nostalgic potency. If I ever had the desire to tame that horsepower in an afterthought frame, it has lost since subsided.
@@borderlands6606 no doubt the thrust of Japans focus was in engine development
Still kept frame builders in work in the UK
I think in another 20 years time, these iconic bikes of the 70s and early 80s will be dropping in value, because the biggest market for them at the moment is my contemporaries, who grew up with them. Once we've all dropped dead, or become too old and infirm to ride, I can't see them having the same appeal to the younger, sports bike generations. It seems to me that with each generation, there are fewer bikers anyway, certainly amongst the people I know.
@@rickconstant6106 Case in point the FS1e. A good one will cost £10-12k, but will future generations who can't remember the 1970s pay that for a moped?
I find that your bike reviews are spot on.
I try to be honest and as historically accurate as possible
Not like anyone is paying me after all
Can someone summarise the Pros and Cons of Ducati's Desmodromic valve actuation? Some (but not all) of the D bikes mentioned were Desmodromic.
A mechanical lever opens the valve and another closes it .
Normal valves of course use a spring to close them but
As the revs rise the spring can’t slam the valve closed fast enough (valve float )
To stop this you could use a stronger sting but this puts more strain on the valve gear (levers etc) and will obviously require more energy to overcome the resistance of the spring thus taking away some engine power.
Desmo was not actually invented by Ducati and was used in industrial engines in the Victorian era
Nothing is ever new
@@bikerdood1100 I remember reading Ducati quoted in the UK motorcycle press of the time as saying that the purpose of their use of desmo valve gear (on at least one of the Ducati desmo models, but I can't remember which) was not, contrary to popular belief, to allow higher revs (that was, they said, limited by piston travel speeds) but to allow more radical cam profiles/valve opening and closing regimes (to achieve better power and power delivery) than could (safely!) be achieved with valve springs.
(Of course, that could just have been marketing nonsense, rather than the actual engineering rationale. Come to think of it, having desmo valve gear itself could have been just a marketing feature, with no real engineering need!)
The downside, I guess, would be additional complication in build and in maintenance. The adjustment for both levers on each valve would have to be EXACTLY right (in an era when precision wasn't so mainstream). I imagine if it were just the slightest bit out it would make an awful racket and/or cause rapid wear, and any more than that would risk making an awful mess of the engine.
Laughed at your comment re the Z1 being left behind by a smaller bije in the corners...I had a Z1000 in the 80s and a mate had an RD350LC. On a twisty road, hed sit behind me gor a while and laugh as I wresteld the big heavy pig around, then nip past around the outside when he'd had enough and leave me choking in his dust like tge coyote chasing the roadrunner lol...meep meep
The rider is always a factor
Some much crazier than others
@@bikerdood1100 true, but on similar bikes we were both about the same...unlike another mate of mine who can blow away most sportsbike riders on a 690KTM with knobbies...he truly is crazy lol
@@andrewmundenandcadfellmast4624 rode a Husqvarna with that big single motor, fast but hard work
Thanks for this video. Your negative view of Harley Davidson is as you British would say “Spot On”. Why anyone would buy an overweight, overpriced and underpowered motorcycle is hard to fathom. Frankly I think the first Honda I ever took a close look at, a 305, is still a better bike than anything HD produces.
For Harley have gone down the rabbit hole of bigger is better, which is only true to a point. I do like the sound and character of their bikes but from a practical stand point they fall down.
It’s an unfortunate case of style over content
Brought a real cheap g's 500 once.
Great all round, really well balanced.
Here’s the thing
It’s not necessary to buy the worlds most expensive bike to have fun, in fact a cheap bike is usually more fun
I'm enjoying the overrated bikes best of all your series. Here where all the greats are (except the Harley of course), I thought seriously about the CBX once, but my favorite motorcycle mechanic told me not to. Sadly I listened to reason, but that 6-cylinder on full chat is to die for. I'd have loved a Kawa Z1 too, something you didn't mention, and I could be wrong,
but didnt they have nearly non-existent brakes? As a suggestion for overrated, how about the first generation Suzuki GSXR (slabside), its a wonderful and iconic bike like the CBX and Z1, and beginning to cost a lot of money. The 2nd generation (slingshot) is better looking, better handling, just as fast and cheaper. I could be blowing my own trumpet.........
Well the brakes on pretty much all 70s bikes a terrible especially in the wet and the Kawasaki was a chunky beast
@@bikerdood1100 Tell me about it! The brakes on the 400/4 were useless, the front brake was so weak that you needed the rear brake, and then it would start skidding, nightmare.
@@spad5497 well the Japanese liked stainless or chrome plated discs, possibly because the looked good which were terrible in the wet. Iron discs on some European bikes were a bit better in wet weather in my experience. But better modern pads help a lot
Try a Srad GSXR 1998 , last carbed ( I think ) , but you will lose your license ! They are absolutely wonderful .
@@davidyendoll5903 I did try the 750 and that was stupid quick
I had a 1955 BSA 500 the same colour as yours. I think I paid 50 quid for it around 1970. Has it ever kicked you back ?
Never kicked back as a mater of fact, timing is set up ok
Unusual colour for a 500, almost always green
@@bikerdood1100 I was leaned over the seat from the right side setting the magneto points gap when it backfired and the kickstart shot upwards taking my foot with it. I think my foot hit my shoulder and my ankle swelled up like a football. I was hobbling around for days.
Just like my Suzuki GT750. The power was to much for the chassis.
Not common among Japanese multies of the 70s
A "long time" ago, 70s or so, there was a motorcycle named Van Veen. Is it possible to get a story about that MC?
Well certainly will be covering rotary bikes at some point
@@bikerdood1100 looking forward to that, too. I once had the pleasure to ride a Herkules W2000 (the vacuum cleaner). Up to about 100km/h this bike would outrun every standard 750 from Japan.
Have to agree with your comments on the Fat Boy but, interestingly, developed into a general rant about Harley's in general. I think that you miss the point of HD's iconic and cultural value which is supported by your comment about the non-bikers naming HD as their memorable brand. All that aside, a great video. 👍
Problem with HD is the BS around them
The looking down on sportster riders and seems absolute nonsense to me
There’s something about building bigger and bigger bikes to a point of impracticality looks at vintage HDs and they were much smaller
And the lack of ground clearance is inexcusable
I’ve been to America quite a few times and there are definitely corners, lots of them
Hello 👋 .. wished you did a comparison maybe with the M8 Fat Bob, costs less a bit, I like the look and clearance in curves is much better in the softail segment along with the Heritage since both have higher rear suspension
Ooohhh
That would take research I’m not that up on the HDs. Their a bit Chucky for our roads
Aww mate. Love your vids, but this is my favorite. I have three of the bikes featured (1976 900SS with a VIN below 10, a 1972 Z1 in the low 1100’s and a CBX). Your opinion on the other 2 (R900S and the Harley) match mine exactly. Bet you were born in 1961, and tha’s not from far away either. Did your Dad have a bike ? 🤣🤣🤣
Well I was born after 61, well a bit (still a product of the 60s)
My dad did have a bike, but only ever had small stuff
My uncles however had a variety of stuff from Nortons to Yamaha and BMW
My Grandfather was a motorcyclist in the late 1920s and was an army dispatch rider in WWII
Riding bikes is all I’ve ever wanted to do, I own a car but seldom drive it myself
Leave that to the wife 😂
@@bikerdood1100 Honestly, I thought it was probably your Dad that was same age as me. I love the intro to your vids, and the old pics. I knew - or rather - THOUGHT you were probably younger. Similar story. My Dad was my enabler with a 5 quid test failed Mobylette when I was 10 but only because I nagged. It came with petrol ration vouchers so must have been the Yom Kippur war. The vouchers were never actually needed, but I still have my book. Honestly, I cannot tell you how much I loved that moped. I made a track round the long old garden. Then my Dad bought me an AP50, just before they were restricted, and it stayed in the garage for a few months until my 16th. I was up at 5am, and off for a ride before school - 1977. My Uncles were bikers too. Not even sure I got it from there, but it’s in my blood. I was bikeless from 1979 to 2019, and saying to the Wife on a regular basis “I’m having a bike when I retire”. She’d say “No you’re not” and then we’d talk about the kids or the weather. I have 16 now, all from 1969 to 1982 (plus an Africa Twin daily rider). All Japs, (except the 900SS and a Fogarty replica 916SPS) and mostly Hondas. I love your channel mate. Do you have a website / email contact?. Ride safe brother 👍
@@paulsmyth497 ha ha no
My dad was born in the 1940s . His parents met during the war in the RAF
He taught to ride on his Honda Cub on fields near our house in the early 70s
I had an AP 50 in the early 80s before riding a 125 Suzuki
Oddly enough my Grandfather ( the despatch rider) had a mobylette in the 60s, he loved it. It replaced his BSA winged wheel amongst other small bikes he used to commute on after war until the early 70s
@@bikerdood1100 Brilliant story. My Dad was born in Tipperary in 1918. He ran away to England in 1936 in the days when the pubs said “No tramps, no dogs, no Irish”. He was a laborer during the start of the war, and had an argument with his Foreman over sixpence (not sure if that was an hour, or a day) and said “Sod this, I’m off to join up”. His foreman said “Don’t be daft Michael, you’re Irish”. He volunteered for the Royal Marines and had a war I am massively proud of including North Africa, liberation of the Greek islands and crossing of the Rhine. He died in 2015, just short of 97. My hero, as I’m sure yours are to you. His youngest Sister Eileen died last week. She would have been 100 this year, and we were all heading over. I was in Ireland 4 years ago with my lad for his others Sisters 100th, she died just less than a year later. They were a special generation for sure our parents. My Dad loved that I had a passion for bikes, even though he never had. Pretty sure from your vids - and now these messages - we are pretty much two peas from neighboring pods mate 😊
4,25 it's one of those unproven statements oft said '' on a twisty Rd a lighter less powerful bike would show it a clean pair of heels".. Fact was at the time, rarely did that hapoen, unless there was a significant difference in the riders abilities.
Maybe it’s often said because it’s often true
Particularly in the days when bikes engines so greatly outperformed that chassis and breaks.
On the subject of riders of course it’s folly to assume the stronger more experienced rider is on the larger bike . The opposition is often the case
Because when you’ve got a few years under your belt you not desperate to prove anything or if you will go over compensate
@@bikerdood1100 Thank you, my assumption was that the better rider was on the slower bike.
In 1972 very few bikes handled well, so the power of the z1 kept it ahead, although I didn't own one (2 stroke fan), I witnessed first hand how quick these were on the road, iffy handling or not.
The kz 750 was one of my favorite bikes . Did it corner well ? No .
Did it go straight well ? Yes very well .
If I had an option of two new cx 500s or one new kz , I would opt for the kawasaki even though Honda has a piece of my heart .
Question??? Were GPZ's common there ? The 550 was a dream bike for me that never became reality.
There was just something about it .
Yep GPZs we’re very common
In 550 , 600 and of course 900 sizes
At the time the CBX was seen as a bit of a joke, it was the sort of bike that people with more money than sense went for. At the time I had another, possibly overrated motorcycle, a Laverda 120 Jota?
Well it does like like a brick wall on wheels
A very expensive brick wall
I've lost count of the times of when mentioning that i am a motorcyclist, non-motorcycling aqaintances would say...''Oh have you got a Harley Davidson?''....which in truth would probably be my very last option, if i wanted another motorcycle! As you say, that proves the power of good product advertising.
It can get very irritating it’s true
People assume if you don’t have one that you aspire to 🙄
Hardly Davidsons are mid-life crisis machines. Old gits that ride them think they look like the Terminator or an outlaw Sons of Anarchy guy.......until they wobble up to a corner! And, yes, I am an old git too but ride a Bandit 1200 and a 918 Fireblade.
I get that. I'm 68 and for people who don't know me, that seems to be the assumption, that if i haven't got a Harley, that must be my ultimate goal. The truth is, even if I had that sort of money to spend on a bike, I still wouldn't. I'm quite happy with my 78 Triumph T140 and 80 Suzuki GS550. They're both very good value for money and fun to ride, I don't have to worry too much about someone stealing them if I leave them parked for more than half an hour, and I don't have to spend several hours polishing them after every ride.
@@rickconstant6106 my wife owned on3 for a few years an£ replaced it with a Moto Guzzi V7
She finds the bike better in pretty much every way, she tells me she would never buy another.
I quite enjoyed riding it but in some ways it felt more crude than my 50s BSA
and less fun to ride too
@@ronwhite8503 I went through the whole mid life thing a wile ago,
Didn’t get a Harley fat boy though
Guess I didn’t fall quite low enough
Just took up running instead. I’d had a garage full of bikes for decades already by then and didn’t need and over weight twin with terrible ground clearance cluttering the place up
How about the bikes that people hated (but are actually quite good)
Deauville??
🤔
I like it
The Z1 had a nasty habit if you overevved it they would spit a shim from the cam follower right through the front of the cam chest.
Whoops
I don't agree with the majority of the statements in this video and think the alternatives offered miss the mark by a country mile. The reason these bikes are either expensive or desirable is because of a combination of factors, not least because they are getting very hard to find these days and pointing out their shortcomings in areas like handling or reliability does not meaningfully distract from their desirability. Suggesting that a Sportster is a good alternative for a Fatboy is ludicrous, they are so far divorced from what they are designed to do that they are aimed at a totally different market. The Sportster (which you seemed to be talking about) is a sports/cafe racer, hence the small tank, the Fatboy is a sort of cruiser, and the Road King is the touring bike, touring on a Sportster?, wrong machine for the job. I would have any of the bikes on your list, they are beautiful machines for a sunny day ride and more likely than not, that is all they would be used for these days, and as a bonus, their monetary value will keep going up.
The point is to make people think and not focus on a narrow selection of bikes lie the bike mags do. Come up with your own alternatives that’s the point.
If I’m being completely honest the best alternative to a Fatboy is a proper motorcycle.
I do find the snobbery amongst Harley fans about their smaller bikes perfectly really, Some Harley Davidsons look good and I selected the Fatboy because it’s a famous model but in reality none of them are very good bikes
@@bikerdood1100
Hardly Ableson - Turning gasoline into noise since 1903.
95% of all Harleys are still on the road... The other 5% made it home! 🤣🤣🤣
@@bikerdood1100 Do people still buy bike mags still?, perhaps in the UK, I don't know, but I haven't for years, I don't see the point anymore, they are mostly ads anyway. I sort of see your point, but a Z650 might be a more suitable and affordable bike for daily use than a Z900, but it will never be a Z900 and a Benelli 750sei would, by any measure, be a far worse bike to own than a CBX, to be fair so would the Kawasaki Z1300 which was always regarded as a bloated and overweight wobbling mess of a bike. As for HD bikes, I am not defending the rather primitive design or build quality, but they are probably the most customisable and tuner friendly bikes you can get, show me a HD that the owner hasn't modified. They have good strong bones and there is nothing flimsy or weak about them. Not the best bike in the world, but there is a charm to them and if left factory stock they are reliable. I have always thought that most of the problems with HD reliability comes from owners tinkering with them.
@@onecookieboy we have this amazing thing where you can down load them to an IPad
Imagine 🙄
@@joelohne3559 classics
Now that’s recycling
Mmmmm boy stepped on few toes with this one. The fan boys are up in arms. How dare you detract from said machine.
Not really detracting, no bike is perfect and I’m saying there are other bikes out there
That’s all really. If fan boys consider that criticism I think it says more about them.
As Harley riders in the US say " only bitches ride Sportsters". That isn't sarcasm. 100% true.
As we say in the UK
Harley riders can’t do corners,
Only Americans would say that. Anyone that can actually build a Sportster properly knows all too well that even the 110 or the 114 can't beat one.
Triumph 1600 Thunderbird is a great bike and cheaper than the 1700. The Thunderbird Storm or LT are both very different. The LT is a bit like the fully dressed Indian a great muscle tourer but the Storm has a double headlight and is quite stripped down in Matt black rather than chrome. I love these bikes and think it's one of the best bikes ever designed or made but that's in the real world for the price . Even nicer than the BMW R18 in my humble opinion as it's subjective.
Well I’m all honesty I’m not convinced at all by the R18
It can’t work as a foot forward cruiser and how big an engine do you really need before it gets plain silly