Jay, my grandma had a 1963 Tempest LeMans hardtop with the 326 V8 and a 4 speed. This was a fast little car that handled well…but not fast enough. She traded it for a 1964 GTO with a 4 speed. I used to stand between the bucket seats and she’d light up the tires and throw me into the back seat. So unsafe. I loved it…I’d get right back up and scream, “Do it again, Grandma, do it again!!!”
My second grade teacher bought a brand new 1962 Tempest with this engine & she used to give me a ride home occasionally. Oh my, was that a r-o-u-g-h running engine. When the hood was up with it idling in neutral you could literally see it shaking side-to-side. Mrs. C regretted buying the car aa she was afraid it would "shake itself apart." On the road cruising you would hear a kind of buzzing noise as it shook. The car was reliable but she only kept it for two years as she got tired of the constant vibration either at idle or driving along.
The Tempest with 215ci aluminum V8 was sweet while it lasted. The top trim Trophy 4 with 155-166hp was just as fast. We used to call the flexible driveshaft a "rope drive", and the Trophy 4 would break it or warp it if the engine backfired or was misfiring on one cylinder. It coulda shoulda woulda been better with just a little more engineering refinement, which came too late to save it. WYR mix: 62 convertible V8, 62 station wagon with H.O. Trophy 4 😁
My dad said that it was rough on timing chains which is not surprising given the fact that the 4 cylinder pulsates as it fires every 180degrees vs every 90 which means harder “jerks” on the chain. It should have had gears instead. But I guess it would have then run loudly like the 2.5 did.
A one time girlfriend had a 1962 Tempest Coupe with an entry lever 4 banger with automatic in a light baby blue color. I only drove it once. It was terrible.
An engineering disaster. I had one with the four barrel carburetor.It made a lot of noise but in no way was a performance vehicle.A two speed power-glide transmission in the rear of the car attached by a curved drive shaft...What could go wrong?No trophy from this actual owner.
Back in the early 80's I had two 62 Tempest LeMans coupes bought for a couple hundred dollars each and kept for a couple of years. Even back then when they were just 20 years old, nobody knew or even remembered what those cars were. When I would have one at a car show back then, it was like, what kind of car is that, or, that's a Pontiac? They were both 4 cylinder 1 bbl automatics and I never had any real problems with them. In fact, I listed one of them on Hemmings and sold it to someone in Georgia over 600 miles away. I agreed to drive it down there as part of the deal and it made it without incident, but........as he is checking it out and about to go for the test drive, he steps on the brake and his foot goes to the floor. Apparently a brake line just blew out. He was understanding and said if I drove it that far it must be OK, and paid me the balance and dropped me off at the Greyhound station.
I've seen renderings of, but would love to see what an actual Corvair based Tempest would look like, It's actually nice that GM allowed it's divisions to play around a bit back then, and not stamp out Cavzasunronhawks... WYR: 1) '61 2) Wagon!
Hi Jay! I forgot to leave a comment for this one! The little Tempest was an INTERESTING little car! The transaxle uses a LOTof the Corvair parts. Notice the torque converter at the BACK of the transaxle, where the engine bellhousing would be on the Corvair! I knew that Pontiac had done a 4 cylinder but I had no idea they just cut the 389 in half!! Learned something new! No wonder they had terrible vibration problems with this! If I had a Tempest, I would want the aluminum V-8. WYR#1 Those are all cool, but the '63 is the nicest looking! #2 As much as I like coupes and convertibles, I think that little station wagon is pretty darn cool!
A friend's dad had a 61 Wagon. I dont remember too much, other that the shaky idle of the engine, and the fact that if you look under the car with it running, you can see the torque convertor spinning around in the open! It was located behind the diff. I always wanted to paint a spiral on it. Fun fact: the 63 326 V8 was actually 336 cid. When the A bodies came out in 64, GM bosses told Pontiac that the 326 had better be a true 326, or else. GM had a limit of 330 cid on the A bodies. Pontiac reduced the bore to comply. Weird thing is, the specs for all 326 engines show the same bore & stroke. Pontiac was trying to fool the bosses. Then, Delorean made the 389 an option, which technically was allowed, but the bosses were mad....Until the GTO took off in sales! WYR= I really want a 63 convert with 326 and automatic. Note: the Corvair 4 speed trans was deemed too weak for the 326, so you were limited to a crappy 3 speed or a 2 speed TempesTorque auto trans, which was a stronger version of the Powerglide. Thanks for the great video, Jay!
John Z was learning, He'd wanted to do an OHC 4, but the production machines weren't set up for that nor did anyone at GM know anything about making them. He was always a fan of European cars and knew they were ahead in automotive technology compared to the US. The budget would have been too big to justify it so he took the 'half an engine' approach as the cheapest way forward to free up funds to do the transaxle, and it didn't work. From this flop he began getting things right, and starting with the GTO he took Pontiac from GM's biggest loser to their most profitable company per car sold. WYR1- I'll take the 63 Tempest because it's the first car I hotwired 😎 My brother showed me how, it was Mom's car. They suspected my brother was doing this because Mom was using more gas than she should for her limited driving, so Dad got Mom to write down the odometer reading when she parked; next lesson from Bro was how to disconnect the speedo cable behind the dash and the gas mileage never improved🤣 Mom liked the car but soon the trans went out and nobody would work on them except the dealer who cost too much so they sold it. WYR2- Convertible
Too funny! My mate and I did something similar here! We did top up the fuel but my mum thought it odd that the engine was warm in the morning before driving off to work!🤣
In 1964 my father bought a used 1961 all white Pontiac Tempest station wagon that our family had for five long years and it was by far the worst car that we ever had. It was always breaking down it would seem and the reason was because it was a station wagon with only 110 hp and four cylinders. A top speed of only 80 mph. If you took that car on a long journey it was almost guaranteed not to start the next day. At 88,000 miles we had the whole engine rebuilt and at 108,000 we finally took it down to the local AMC dealer and bought a brand new 1969 Rambler station wagon which was a much better set of wheels. My father also had a tan colored Pacer which despite the bad press was a very reliable car and hardly gave us any trouble at all, but that Pontiac Tempest, Boy, oh Boy, oh Boy, what a lousy car that was! 😟
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this vehicle greatly appreciate it. I’ve only seen one in my lifetime and it was at Hershey last year. It wasn’t a wagon. It was a car and there was 1 million people around it. I couldn’t get anywhere near it. Hundred horsepower doesn’t seem like a whole lot but that’s what the Toyota Prius has and it doesn’t feel underpowered. I drove Rambler cross country wagon with a six cylinder with a round 100 hp and I thought it was adequate.
3 of us football players rolled our coaches car on game day. His car was a 62 Pontiac Tempest station wagon with the 215 aluminum V8. The car was fast but a muddy road and deep ditch stopped us. The opposing football team stopped us that night as well.😊
My mother had a 1961 Tempest Wagon with the Trophy 4 automatic. It was dark blue with a white roof. She liked it but she had a lot of trouble with it. I think I told this story before but when I was about 7 we were around the corner from our house and the idler arm fell out of the car. My mother made me get out and pick it up. Even though the car had low miles my parents got tired of repairing it and they traded it in on a 1968 Chevy Nova. My dad said he chose the car because he was impressed with the engineering and hoped it would be economical. When they got rid of it he said he'd never buy a first year of a novel design again. I'd choose the '63 and the convertible.
Hi Justin, excellent video! All of your video's are very accurate! I am 64 years old and I was an automobile mechanic most of my career. I also worked at a transmission shop. My late father bought a 1961 Pontiac Tempest 2 door sedan. I also had an uncle that had an 1963 Pontiac Tempest convertible and plus, I had a second grade school teacher that had an 1963 Pontiac LeMans convertible. The transaxle in the 1961-1963 Tempest/LeMans was 90% the same as the transaxle found in the Chevrolet Corvair. The Corvair automatic transaxle was a 2 speed, called the "Corvair Powerglide". The Tempest/LeMans automatic transaxle was a 2 speed, called the "Tempest Torque". The 1960 Chevrolet Corvair "GM Z-Body" was GM"s first compact car, fallowed by the Chevy II "GM X-Body" in 1962, as was the 1960 Ford Falcon, Fords first compact car. The 1960 Plymouth Valiant was Chrysler's first compact car. In 1961, when GM came out with the, Pontiac Tempest/LeMans, Oldsmobile F-85/Cutlass and the Buick Special/Skylark these three car lines where NOT "compacts", nor mid-size. They where produced on the GM Y body, as an "senior compact". They would NOT become a full "mid size" until 1964 using the "GM A-Body", (body on frame) as was the Chevrolet Chevelle/Malibu. The Ford Motor Company did the same thing. The Falcon was a "compact", but in the mean time, the Mercury Comet (1960) fallowed by the Ford Fairlane (1962) where a "senior compact". The Comet and Fairlane would NOT become a real "mid-size" until 1966. Please reply! Dave...
Hey Dave sorry for the delayed response we drove to Georgia yesterday from Pennsylvania I did a lot of the driving I didn’t get a chance to respond to a lot yesterday =) Thank you so much for sharing all of that insight and information greatly appreciate it =) I try to do as much research as possible but there is so much misinformation out there it’s gotten to the point where I try to just take all the information from either the advertisement brochures themselves or find an old shop manual that tells me everything about the different engines interesting case when we did the Lincoln V8 engine every source on the Internet said that they had three main bearingsit wasn’t looking at an old shop manual that it was always five main bearings.. The other thing that I absolutely hate is, why do these sites have to round the numbers they should just give the exact number I personally don’t know what the numbers are so I don’t know if they’re rounded or not also, everybody does math different. They draw the line in different spots, it’s just super frustrating but I’m happy this channel. Thank you so much for noticing all the work that goes into it. =)
My father bought a 4-cylinder Tempest in November 1960. He traded it in 2-years later with 17,000 miles due to engine vibration. He usually kept a car for 10-years.
The 1963 LeMans(No Tempest emblems) also used the Slant 4. My Dad had a spotless one which I maintained and drove quite a bit. The key to keeping the vibration down to a minimum was to keep the engine well tuned w/ new points, rotor, condenser, plugs and plug wires every 12K. Set the timing on the mark and they are reasonably smooth and just off idle, very smooth. His was a Auto and in a race it was much quicker than a new Vega or Pinto plus it handles and rode very smoothly. My Dad was involved in a head on crash with the car and walked away with a busted lip and broken wrist. Car was beyond fixing though.
WYR: 63 Tempest and 2 door coupe. Here’s another engine I wish had gotten more time. This would have been ideal, once developed, when the first oil embargo happened. Great coverage as always, thank you ~ Chuck
Pontiac and Oldsmobile around 1959 when the Corvair was being finalized was presented badge trimmed corvairs, one of them was going to be the Pontiac Pathfinder, when their management saw the proposed models wisely turned them down and went the conventional rear drive front engine route redesigned the basic Corvair body, and along with Buick designed the Tempest, F-85, and Special and designed the slant 4, the Buick V-6 and aluminum V-8's, and were pretty unique cars until the 64 mid sized cars replaced them. First pick 63 Tempest Le Mans, second, any of the body styles especially the hard top and convertible . The basic Tempest 4 door body was patterned after the Corvair test mule and used the exact front end design.
Hi Justin, It's Dave. Sorry that I have not been with you in awhile because my computer has been down. I had to have the motherboard replaced. It's a six year old business/commercial laptop costing $2500, and that is with out the factory computer dock, so I did not want to purchase a new laptop.
I had the red 62 tempest lemans 2 door. had that car for 34 years and loved it. Funny how you and comments go on about vibration, I didnt have any of those problems. The driveshaft was curved and was much smoother than a regular driveshaft. I cant remember but it was about 5/8" rod, that would twist when torque was applied. The car was a 2-speed and would sling-shot into second gear. It was also pretty fast for a 4 cyl. It had a nice gloss black lacquered dash that sat low and the shifter was a small stick with like a pontiac emblem coming straight out of the dash. Low bucket seats and no hump tunnel to get in the way. Thats why they show 3 people sitting across the seats. Once I jacked it up and set some wide tires under it, reminded me a lot of a mustang (wanted to tub it). It had those bat wings in the rear. Independent suspension. My only complaint would be that sometimes it would oversteer in a tricky situation around a curve. I would get tons of compliments on that car everywhere I would go, and have to talk to the admirers...lol. Some guy said the front grill looked like a toaster so he took a long grill, maybe a 1970 roadrunner grill, flipped it upside down and jammed it in there. The car had those window vents which I miss. There was a triangle shaped glass bottle under the hood for windshield washer fluid. Just pick up a bottle of fluid and snap it in place.The pontiac tempest was a car ahead of its time (due to its smoother driveshaft and no hump), but at that time people were not into compact, and gas saving. Very lightweight car.
My Navy buddy had a '62 Tempest. He kept a screwdriver on the dashboard to tighten the screws from the vibration. The engine had little coil springs for motor mounts with little shock absorbers. They wore out fast. The motor vibrated the car, and replacing the shocks was temporary because they wore out fast.
Most in-line 4 cylinder engines use balance shafts to cancel out vibrations. Balance shafts have been used in in-line engines since the early 1900s. Apparently, this engine design did not use a balance shaft,, and that made the "trophy four" a badly flawed concept from day one. GM had to know about balance shafts and how to employ them, but they chose not to do so. GM made some unusual cars in the 1960s. Some of them worked, but a number of them didn't. This car was in the faux pas category. I feel sorry for the owners who had to crank up these engines on cold days. Their teeth must have really rattled
Have you ever driven one? They shake a bit but you don't feel it in the car thanks to the rope shaft and soft engine mounts. I daily drove my 63 4 cylinder Tempest for years.
There were NOT USA built 4cyls built with balance shafts until the 1990's. Even then they were only used in high rpm/high performance applications. Balance shafts in V6 became common in the 90's
For WYR, I would pick the ‘63, as a convertible. This was one of the more interesting engine stories. An engine literally cut in half, with the transmission placed in the rear to cut down vibration.
There are others, believe it, or not international made two… which I’ve been trying to do information very spotty on those engines. I wasn’t sure how to go about it whether I should cover the four cylinders and the V8 or just the four-cylinder, and do a separate video for the V8
My parents had a 1961 Tempest wagon with the Trophy 4. I remember it from my childhood. I remember that my dad liked it even though the engine ran rough.
@@What.its.like. say what? Pontiac is even closer together than SBC similar to CAdillac but cad is not divided take a look at the intake with paired intake ports fornt and back of the head
Pontiac was a part of General Motors, so I doubt that they were short of funds to develop their own 4 cyl. from the drawing board. They weren't the only company that cut their V8 in half to create a slant 4cyl engine. International did it too. Remember, Pontiac created it's own V8 engine back in the 50's from the blank drawing board. It shared no components with other GM engines. Pontiac was known for cutting corners. The transmissions in the Tempest were borrowed from the Corvair. The uniqueness was with the front engine and rear transaxle with the rope drive connecting them. Olds and Buick used the same body as the Tempest, but used a conventional drivetrain. Pontiac also liked to steal technology from it's sister makes. Chevy introduced it's own 4 cyl. engine for the '62 model year in the new Chevy II. Mercury Marine used it for many years. Then with the new downsived compact cars, and it's version of the Chevy Vega, it laid claim to the old Chevy II 4 cyl. and rebranded it "The Iron Duke". Truth be told, that engine had been a favorite of the racing industry, which put it's own tweaks on the design, like an aluminum version. Nope, Pontiac wasn't short on funds until GM pulled the plug on the make.
Hold on a minute ✋️. Pontiac's Iron Duke was a brand new engine design, it had absolutely NOTHING in common with Chevy's 4 cyl. Chevy's 4 cyl was just thier Turbo-Thrift 6cyl minus 2 cyls. That's why it was so popular for marine (OMC used it as well) and other industrial applications, it had the common Chevrolet bellhousing pattern. The Chevy 4cyl was a small bore-long stroke engine, while Pontiac's Iron Duke was large bore-short stroke (which is why it had high performance capabilities). Besides being part of General Motors, there's not a single thing in common with those two engines.
@@johneckert1365 We had interchanged parts between the 2 engines. As I stated, Mercury Marine used the Chevy II engine as a base and created engines up to 3L. This was long before the "Iron Duke" was even thought of. Racers picked up on the engine and used it, also commonly using a 3L version. Bore and stroke, can be changed on most any engine as well as valve arrangement. Does this constitute an entirely new engine,?I wouldn't think so. Was the Chevy "Durabuilt" engine an entirely different engine from the original Chevy Vega 2300? Not really, the aftermarket had been sleeving Vega engines for awhile already. Was the Cosworth Vega engine and entirely new engine? No, it was just a reduced displacement Vega block with a Cosworth head.
@automatedelectronics6062 Read your original comment. You stated that Pontiac laid claim to Chevy's 4cyl and rebranded it "The Iron Duke". That is exactly what you said verbatim. The Iron Duke has NOTHING in common with the Chevy 4cyl. Please tell us what parts interchange between a Chevy II 4cyl 2.5 or the later enlarged 3.0 and the Iron Duke. Seriously, give us 1 part. There's ZERO. The Iron Duke was 100% an entirely new engine from Pontiac.
"Wherever I May Roam" by Metallica
Yeah buddy you got it =) you got it
Jay, my grandma had a 1963 Tempest LeMans hardtop with the 326 V8 and a 4 speed.
This was a fast little car that handled well…but not fast enough. She traded it for a 1964 GTO with a 4 speed. I used to stand between the bucket seats and she’d light up the tires and throw me into the back seat. So unsafe. I loved it…I’d get right back up and scream, “Do it again, Grandma, do it again!!!”
My second grade teacher bought a brand new 1962 Tempest with this engine & she used to give me a ride home occasionally. Oh my, was that a r-o-u-g-h running engine. When the hood was up with it idling in neutral you could literally see it shaking side-to-side. Mrs. C regretted buying the car aa she was afraid it would "shake itself apart." On the road cruising you would hear a kind of buzzing noise as it shook. The car was reliable but she only kept it for two years as she got tired of the constant vibration either at idle or driving along.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this car and engine
My grandfather had a 4 cylinder Chevy II as a company car and said it vibrated terribly also.
That Chevy 4 cyl lived on in Marine and other Industrial applications through the 2000's
That is the best 4 cylinder engine that Chevy ever made..it's the Turbo Thrift engine in an inline 4 cylinder engine...
Probably not the best decision for gm at the time ! It was worth a try tho !
7.5 inch stroke? Wow!!
Maybe that was a typo. I have to go back and look at it. 3.75
Maybe that was a typo. I have to go back and look at it. 3.75
@@What.its.like. I just had to joke you about it a bit. It was your dialog. The number on screen was correct. :) Love your content!!!
Some of us would love to have a stroke that long 🤪
The Tempest with 215ci aluminum V8 was sweet while it lasted. The top trim Trophy 4 with 155-166hp was just as fast. We used to call the flexible driveshaft a "rope drive", and the Trophy 4 would break it or warp it if the engine backfired or was misfiring on one cylinder. It coulda shoulda woulda been better with just a little more engineering refinement, which came too late to save it.
WYR mix: 62 convertible V8, 62 station wagon with H.O. Trophy 4 😁
My dad said that it was rough on timing chains which is not surprising given the fact that the 4 cylinder pulsates as it fires every 180degrees vs every 90 which means harder “jerks” on the chain. It should have had gears instead. But I guess it would have then run loudly like the 2.5 did.
A one time girlfriend had a 1962 Tempest Coupe with an entry lever 4 banger with automatic in a light baby blue color. I only drove it once. It was terrible.
Had a '61 4 door as a kid, 4 barrel carb I believe. A flexible driveline? Not GM's best design. Thanks.
Give me the '63 Tempest & I like the convertible models, though I'm sure they were flexi-flyers! 😄
An engineering disaster. I had one with the four barrel carburetor.It made a lot of noise but in no way was a performance vehicle.A two speed power-glide transmission in the rear of the car attached by a curved drive shaft...What could go wrong?No trophy from this actual owner.
Back in the early 80's I had two 62 Tempest LeMans coupes bought for a couple hundred dollars each and kept for a couple of years. Even back then when they were just 20 years old, nobody knew or even remembered what those cars were. When I would have one at a car show back then, it was like, what kind of car is that, or, that's a Pontiac? They were both 4 cylinder 1 bbl automatics and I never had any real problems with them. In fact, I listed one of them on Hemmings and sold it to someone in Georgia over 600 miles away. I agreed to drive it down there as part of the deal and it made it without incident, but........as he is checking it out and about to go for the test drive, he steps on the brake and his foot goes to the floor. Apparently a brake line just blew out. He was understanding and said if I drove it that far it must be OK, and paid me the balance and dropped me off at the Greyhound station.
My friend had one and due to the flat floorboard, he would drive the car sitting on the right side, freaking out other drivers.
Great story thank you fir sharing that memory
Hi Justin, please see my comment in regards to the 1961 Pontiac Tempest.
I'd take a '63 2 door. First year the 326 V8 was available and makes for a decently powered car.
I LIKE THE CONVERTIBLE 😊
Awesome =)
Was it really 1/2 a V8, or did it have a flat plane crank?
I worked on these when I was learning the trade in 1970.
1963 tempest. Station wagon. My dad had the Buick I think with the aluminum v8. In a wagon pretty quick.
Sweet choice =)
I've seen renderings of, but would love to see what an actual Corvair based Tempest would look like, It's actually nice that GM allowed it's divisions to play around a bit back then, and not stamp out Cavzasunronhawks... WYR: 1) '61 2) Wagon!
Sweet choices
Hi Jay! I forgot to leave a comment for this one! The little Tempest was an INTERESTING little car! The transaxle uses a LOTof the Corvair parts. Notice the torque converter at the BACK of the transaxle, where the engine bellhousing would be on the Corvair! I knew that Pontiac had done a 4 cylinder but I had no idea they just cut the 389 in half!! Learned something new! No wonder they had terrible vibration problems with this! If I had a Tempest, I would want the aluminum V-8. WYR#1 Those are all cool, but the '63 is the nicest looking! #2 As much as I like coupes and convertibles, I think that little station wagon is pretty darn cool!
Thank you so much for sharing all of that added information as well as insight. Happy you dig this episode. Great choices as well.
A friend's dad had a 61 Wagon. I dont remember too much, other that the shaky idle of the engine, and the fact that if you look under the car with it running, you can see the torque convertor spinning around in the open! It was located behind the diff. I always wanted to paint a spiral on it. Fun fact: the 63 326 V8 was actually 336 cid. When the A bodies came out in 64, GM bosses told Pontiac that the 326 had better be a true 326, or else. GM had a limit of 330 cid on the A bodies. Pontiac reduced the bore to comply. Weird thing is, the specs for all 326 engines show the same bore & stroke. Pontiac was trying to fool the bosses. Then, Delorean made the 389 an option, which technically was allowed, but the bosses were mad....Until the GTO took off in sales! WYR= I really want a 63 convert with 326 and automatic. Note: the Corvair 4 speed trans was deemed too weak for the 326, so you were limited to a crappy 3 speed or a 2 speed TempesTorque auto trans, which was a stronger version of the Powerglide. Thanks for the great video, Jay!
Great story thank you so much for sharing that memory
63 Super Duty! Wagon.
John Z was learning, He'd wanted to do an OHC 4, but the production machines weren't set up for that nor did anyone at GM know anything about making them. He was always a fan of European cars and knew they were ahead in automotive technology compared to the US. The budget would have been too big to justify it so he took the 'half an engine' approach as the cheapest way forward to free up funds to do the transaxle, and it didn't work. From this flop he began getting things right, and starting with the GTO he took Pontiac from GM's biggest loser to their most profitable company per car sold.
WYR1- I'll take the 63 Tempest because it's the first car I hotwired 😎 My brother showed me how, it was Mom's car. They suspected my brother was doing this because Mom was using more gas than she should for her limited driving, so Dad got Mom to write down the odometer reading when she parked; next lesson from Bro was how to disconnect the speedo cable behind the dash and the gas mileage never improved🤣 Mom liked the car but soon the trans went out and nobody would work on them except the dealer who cost too much so they sold it. WYR2- Convertible
Too funny! My mate and I did something similar here! We did top up the fuel but my mum thought it odd that the engine was warm in the morning before driving off to work!🤣
In 1964 my father bought a used 1961 all white Pontiac Tempest station wagon that our family had for five long years and it was by far the worst car that we ever had. It was always breaking down it would seem and the reason was because it was a station wagon with only 110 hp and four cylinders. A top speed of only 80 mph. If you took that car on a long journey it was almost guaranteed not to start the next day. At 88,000 miles we had the whole engine rebuilt and at 108,000 we finally took it down to the local AMC dealer and bought a brand new 1969 Rambler station wagon which was a much better set of wheels. My father also had a tan colored Pacer which despite the bad press was a very reliable car and hardly gave us any trouble at all, but that Pontiac Tempest, Boy, oh Boy, oh Boy, what a lousy car that was! 😟
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this vehicle greatly appreciate it. I’ve only seen one in my lifetime and it was at Hershey last year. It wasn’t a wagon. It was a car and there was 1 million people around it. I couldn’t get anywhere near it.
Hundred horsepower doesn’t seem like a whole lot but that’s what the Toyota Prius has and it doesn’t feel underpowered. I drove Rambler cross country wagon with a six cylinder with a round 100 hp and I thought it was adequate.
3 of us football players rolled our coaches car on game day. His car was a 62 Pontiac Tempest station wagon with the 215 aluminum V8. The car was fast but a muddy road and deep ditch stopped us.
The opposing football team stopped us that night as well.😊
Great story thank you so much for sharing that memory with us =)
My mother had a 1961 Tempest Wagon with the Trophy 4 automatic. It was dark blue with a white roof. She liked it but she had a lot of trouble with it. I think I told this story before but when I was about 7 we were around the corner from our house and the idler arm fell out of the car. My mother made me get out and pick it up. Even though the car had low miles my parents got tired of repairing it and they traded it in on a 1968 Chevy Nova. My dad said he chose the car because he was impressed with the engineering and hoped it would be economical. When they got rid of it he said he'd never buy a first year of a novel design again. I'd choose the '63 and the convertible.
did not the 62 have the corvair tranaxle with the curved driveshaft?
Thank you for sharing that story. What a great memory.
Not the first time GM cut a motor we had the Starfire 4 which was a straight 6 Holden engine with 2 cylinders cut off. They were hideous.
Great information =) there are others out there as well
Looks like they sliced one bank of cylinders off a V-8, and congratulated themselves on a job well done.
Pretty much =D
I’m over 60 , owned 100’s of cars and rode in many more , but never had a chance to get close to one of them , 1969 tempest is what i had .
No excuse for such a rough running car.
My uncle had one of those 4 cylinders back in early 60s his said it vibrated like a bowl of jello in a earthquake. He was not a fan of them at all.
What a great analogy
Had a 1962 tempest, it was one of the worst cars I every owned in my life of over 50 years.
Oh wow what other cars were terrible
Interesting engine and interesting car and drive line. 63 Pontiac - 2 door coupe.
Sweet choices happy you dig this episode
Jay, any truth to the story that the tempest shared its platform with the corvair?
Not sure
Hi Justin, excellent video! All of your video's are very accurate! I am 64 years old and I was an automobile mechanic most of my career. I also worked at a transmission shop. My late father bought a 1961 Pontiac Tempest 2 door sedan. I also had an uncle that had an 1963 Pontiac Tempest convertible and plus, I had a second grade school teacher that had an 1963 Pontiac LeMans convertible. The transaxle in the 1961-1963 Tempest/LeMans was 90% the same as the transaxle found in the Chevrolet Corvair. The Corvair automatic transaxle was a 2 speed, called the "Corvair Powerglide". The Tempest/LeMans automatic transaxle was a 2 speed, called the "Tempest Torque". The 1960 Chevrolet Corvair "GM Z-Body" was GM"s first compact car, fallowed by the Chevy II "GM X-Body" in 1962, as was the 1960 Ford Falcon, Fords first compact car. The 1960 Plymouth Valiant was Chrysler's first compact car. In 1961, when GM came out with the, Pontiac Tempest/LeMans, Oldsmobile F-85/Cutlass and the Buick Special/Skylark these three car lines where NOT "compacts", nor mid-size. They where produced on the GM Y body, as an "senior compact". They would NOT become a full "mid size" until 1964 using the "GM A-Body", (body on frame) as was the Chevrolet Chevelle/Malibu. The Ford Motor Company did the same thing. The Falcon was a "compact", but in the mean time, the Mercury Comet (1960) fallowed by the Ford Fairlane (1962) where a "senior compact". The Comet and Fairlane would NOT become a real "mid-size" until 1966. Please reply! Dave...
Hey Dave sorry for the delayed response we drove to Georgia yesterday from Pennsylvania I did a lot of the driving I didn’t get a chance to respond to a lot yesterday =)
Thank you so much for sharing all of that insight and information greatly appreciate it =)
I try to do as much research as possible but there is so much misinformation out there it’s gotten to the point where I try to just take all the information from either the advertisement brochures themselves or find an old shop manual that tells me everything about the different engines interesting case when we did the Lincoln V8 engine every source on the Internet said that they had three main bearingsit wasn’t looking at an old shop manual that it was always five main bearings..
The other thing that I absolutely hate is, why do these sites have to round the numbers they should just give the exact number I personally don’t know what the numbers are so I don’t know if they’re rounded or not also, everybody does math different. They draw the line in different spots, it’s just super frustrating but I’m happy this channel. Thank you so much for noticing all the work that goes into it.
=)
@@What.its.like. Thank you! Dave...
WYR 1: All of them.
WYR 2: Yes.
NTT: The Memory Remains by Metallica.
Sweet choices
Really close it was
Where ever I may roam Metallica
@@What.its.like. Haven't heard Wherever I May Roam enough times to catch it.
My father bought a 4-cylinder Tempest in November 1960.
He traded it in 2-years later with 17,000 miles due to engine vibration.
He usually kept a car for 10-years.
The 1963 LeMans(No Tempest emblems) also used the Slant 4. My Dad had a spotless one which I maintained and drove quite a bit. The key to keeping the vibration down to a minimum was to keep the engine well tuned w/ new points, rotor, condenser, plugs and plug wires every 12K. Set the timing on the mark and they are reasonably smooth and just off idle, very smooth. His was a Auto and in a race it was much quicker than a new Vega or Pinto plus it handles and rode very smoothly. My Dad was involved in a head on crash with the car and walked away with a busted lip and broken wrist. Car was beyond fixing though.
Awesome information thank you so much for sharing
WYR: 63 Tempest and 2 door coupe.
Here’s another engine I wish had gotten more time. This would have been ideal, once developed, when the first oil embargo happened.
Great coverage as always, thank you ~ Chuck
Sweet choices happy you dig that episode =)
I wouldn't mind one with the 326.
That would make that car a rocket I would think
Pontiac and Oldsmobile around 1959 when the Corvair was being finalized was presented badge trimmed corvairs, one of them was going to be the Pontiac Pathfinder, when their management saw the proposed models wisely turned them down and went the conventional rear drive front engine route redesigned the basic Corvair body, and along with Buick designed the Tempest, F-85, and Special and designed the slant 4, the Buick V-6 and aluminum V-8's, and were pretty unique cars until the 64 mid sized cars replaced them. First pick 63 Tempest Le Mans, second, any of the body styles especially the hard top and convertible . The basic Tempest 4 door body was patterned after the Corvair test mule and used the exact front end design.
WYR: '61, then '63, then '62. Wagon.
Sweet choices =)
1963
I owned a 62 2 door.
Sweet what did you think of it
62 tempest
Sweet choice
Wagon
Sweet choice
Another enjoyable and informative engine video, Jay. Thank you. I'll take the '61, and I prefer the convertible (of course).
Sweet choice happy to dig this engine episode
Hi Justin, It's Dave. Sorry that I have not been with you in awhile because my computer has been down. I had to have the motherboard replaced. It's a six year old business/commercial laptop costing $2500, and that is with out the factory computer dock, so I did not want to purchase a new laptop.
Oh wow I’m sorry that your having/had computer problems
I had the red 62 tempest lemans 2 door. had that car for 34 years and loved it. Funny how you and comments go on about vibration, I didnt have any of those problems. The driveshaft was curved and was much smoother than a regular driveshaft. I cant remember but it was about 5/8" rod, that would twist when torque was applied. The car was a 2-speed and would sling-shot into second gear. It was also pretty fast for a 4 cyl. It had a nice gloss black lacquered dash that sat low and the shifter was a small stick with like a pontiac emblem coming straight out of the dash. Low bucket seats and no hump tunnel to get in the way. Thats why they show 3 people sitting across the seats. Once I jacked it up and set some wide tires under it, reminded me a lot of a mustang (wanted to tub it). It had those bat wings in the rear. Independent suspension. My only complaint would be that sometimes it would oversteer in a tricky situation around a curve. I would get tons of compliments on that car everywhere I would go, and have to talk to the admirers...lol. Some guy said the front grill looked like a toaster so he took a long grill, maybe a 1970 roadrunner grill, flipped it upside down and jammed it in there. The car had those window vents which I miss. There was a triangle shaped glass bottle under the hood for windshield washer fluid. Just pick up a bottle of fluid and snap it in place.The pontiac tempest was a car ahead of its time (due to its smoother driveshaft and no hump), but at that time people were not into compact, and gas saving. Very lightweight car.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience =)
My Navy buddy had a '62 Tempest. He kept a screwdriver on the dashboard to tighten the screws from the vibration. The engine had little coil springs for motor mounts with little shock absorbers. They wore out fast. The motor vibrated the car, and replacing the shocks was temporary because they wore out fast.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this engine =)
WYR 1961 for the skirts
WYR 2 Door Coupe
Great information Jay, I did not know anything about that 4 banger or that interesting drive train.Thx.
Great choices happy you got something out of this episode =)
Most in-line 4 cylinder engines use balance shafts to cancel out vibrations. Balance shafts have been used in in-line engines since the early 1900s. Apparently, this engine design did not use a balance shaft,, and that made the "trophy four" a badly flawed concept from day one. GM had to know about balance shafts and how to employ them, but they chose not to do so. GM made some unusual cars in the 1960s. Some of them worked, but a number of them didn't. This car was in the faux pas category. I feel sorry for the owners who had to crank up these engines on cold days. Their teeth must have really rattled
Have you ever driven one? They shake a bit but you don't feel it in the car thanks to the rope shaft and soft engine mounts. I daily drove my 63 4 cylinder Tempest for years.
Most inline fours do not in fact use balance shafts…a small number do.
There were NOT USA built 4cyls built with balance shafts until the 1990's. Even then they were only used in high rpm/high performance applications.
Balance shafts in V6 became common in the 90's
@@johneckert1365 Correct.👍
I would love to drive a trophy 4
The 215 v8 and 326 back to back =) super tall order considering I never saw one
For WYR, I would pick the ‘63, as a convertible.
This was one of the more interesting engine stories. An engine literally cut in half, with the transmission placed in the rear to cut down vibration.
There are others, believe it, or not international made two… which I’ve been trying to do information very spotty on those engines. I wasn’t sure how to go about it whether I should cover the four cylinders and the V8 or just the four-cylinder, and do a separate video for the V8
63 coupe than a 61 convertible
Great Job
Happy Motoring ✌️🤠
Sweet choices
My parents had a 1961 Tempest wagon with the Trophy 4. I remember it from my childhood. I remember that my dad liked it even though the engine ran rough.
It was maroon
Awesome thank you so much for sharing the family wagon
I love my half a V8
You have one?
I have a 63 with a slant 4 and 3 speed manual
Sweet
valves do not alternate in the head two center exhausts are together Mickey Thompson set records with these including blown dragster
One intake one exhaust.. alternating between intake and exhaust
@@What.its.like. say what? Pontiac is even closer together than SBC similar to CAdillac but cad is not divided take a look at the intake with paired intake ports fornt and back of the head
I'd rather have a Valiant. That tune was TOO easy
Sweet choice they can’t all be hard =)
Are you talking like this on purpose? If so stop it's annoying.
Idk might be your speakers sounded good on my end
Pontiac was a part of General Motors, so I doubt that they were short of funds to develop their own 4 cyl. from the drawing board. They weren't the only company that cut their V8 in half to create a slant 4cyl engine. International did it too. Remember, Pontiac created it's own V8 engine back in the 50's from the blank drawing board. It shared no components with other GM engines.
Pontiac was known for cutting corners. The transmissions in the Tempest were borrowed from the Corvair. The uniqueness was with the front engine and rear transaxle with the rope drive connecting them. Olds and Buick used the same body as the Tempest, but used a conventional drivetrain.
Pontiac also liked to steal technology from it's sister makes. Chevy introduced it's own 4 cyl. engine for the '62 model year in the new Chevy II. Mercury Marine used it for many years. Then with the new downsived compact cars, and it's version of the Chevy Vega, it laid claim to the old Chevy II 4 cyl. and rebranded it "The Iron Duke". Truth be told, that engine had been a favorite of the racing industry, which put it's own tweaks on the design, like an aluminum version.
Nope, Pontiac wasn't short on funds until GM pulled the plug on the make.
Hold on a minute ✋️. Pontiac's Iron Duke was a brand new engine design, it had absolutely NOTHING in common with Chevy's 4 cyl. Chevy's 4 cyl was just thier Turbo-Thrift 6cyl minus 2 cyls. That's why it was so popular for marine (OMC used it as well) and other industrial applications, it had the common Chevrolet bellhousing pattern. The Chevy 4cyl was a small bore-long stroke engine, while Pontiac's Iron Duke was large bore-short stroke (which is why it had high performance capabilities).
Besides being part of General Motors, there's not a single thing in common with those two engines.
@@johneckert1365 We had interchanged parts between the 2 engines. As I stated, Mercury Marine used the Chevy II engine as a base and created engines up to 3L. This was long before the "Iron Duke" was even thought of. Racers picked up on the engine and used it, also commonly using a 3L version.
Bore and stroke, can be changed on most any engine as well as valve arrangement. Does this constitute an entirely new engine,?I wouldn't think so.
Was the Chevy "Durabuilt" engine an entirely different engine from the original Chevy Vega 2300? Not really, the aftermarket had been sleeving Vega engines for awhile already. Was the Cosworth Vega engine and entirely new engine? No, it was just a reduced displacement Vega block with a Cosworth head.
@automatedelectronics6062 Read your original comment. You stated that Pontiac laid claim to Chevy's 4cyl and rebranded it "The Iron Duke". That is exactly what you said verbatim. The Iron Duke has NOTHING in common with the Chevy 4cyl.
Please tell us what parts interchange between a Chevy II 4cyl 2.5 or the later enlarged 3.0 and the Iron Duke. Seriously, give us 1 part. There's ZERO.
The Iron Duke was 100% an entirely new engine from Pontiac.
@@automatedelectronics6062 Furthermore, OMC used Chevrolet's 4cyl before Mercury did.
Crap motor as well as the designer....
Those cars were rusted out motor bad before the 70s.....389 was crap2...