In South Korea, vehicle taxes are decided by the size of the engine. For example, 2.0L Mercedes is cheaper than 3.5L Kia. Which is ironic that the price difference between two cars are nearly double.
That’s also why Peugeot cars in general have a max of 1.6 4 cyl and they have removed the 2.0 hdi from every PSA car including Opel and its English equivalent
@@ivangamer8022 hmmm displays, memories is designed engeneered and produced in Korea idk what you are talking about. Its an insult to not recognize Korea as a semiconductor and electronics powerhouse. I wont talk about art because idk anything about it, but car design is copied by many car companies outside of Korea, laws can be copied because they work if some country pass law where it prohibit child labor does it mean that they copy laws from Europe ?
My first thought was the Lancia Delta S4's twincharged 1.8L I4. When they tuned the boost to the max, that thing could hit 1000hp. For racing, they capped it at 490 (officially).
@@brokenursa9986 yes the Fiat Twin cam is a solid design that has lasted and been fitted to an insane amount of vehicles. Power depends on build internals and turbo / charger , and head cams fitted. Look up Triflux engine abarth special design for S4 ECV Grp S .
This was awesome, I originally subscribed to this channel for clarkson hammond and may but after seeing this I'd love to watch a whole series explaining different engine designs and trends and technologies.
Mike & May Discuss Transport Technologies would be a series I could get behind. I've been hoping they would pair up for something more since the repairing of Mike's model loco.
Seem's like the big boys really don't have much to do with it these days, what with being busy with their side projects or the Grand Tour. The most you see of any of them these days is either Hammond or Clarkson plugging their pet projects or May at the spin off channel Food Tribe......CHEESE!
@@martintaper7997 it is an issue, which is why they're not as common except for a few cases. i6 are usually about 80% longer than a V6 with similar displacement (i6's main competitor is v6, not i4). and although v6 is wider, it's still easier for packaging due to an almost cube-like shape outline. for most cars, functionality and cost are more important considerations than aesthetics. speaking of smaller i6 like 2 liters, they used to be common but not anymore because of reduced thermal efficiency as mentioned by the cosworth expert in the video.
@@the80386 I had a E89 Z4. It had more than enough place under the hood for that engine. It might not be for every car, but in those where it can be fitted, it's a pity not to have it.
@@Chris-Workshop I only had a 2500 cm³ inline 6, with ~210 PS, but it was smoother than silk. I really miss it. With double VANOS and Valvetronic, it was a dream.
This 2.0 500cc per cylinder doesn't apply in the US, and the reasons are the following; 2.5L non-turbo, is by far the most common 4 cylinder in the US, and it too, is "best", -atleast for the US. US does not have any hp or engine size based taxation. Hence a car is cheaper to produce, and sell, with a V6 or I6 for a set HP requirement, than a turbo4, which has many more components. 2.5 Litre is about as large as a 4 cylinder can go, before it creates excessive inbalance and vibrations. Larger 2.7 and 2.8L I4 exists, but either with severe vibration issues, or expensive balancing shafts, which makes a V6 the better (cheaper) option again. So why the 2.0 as a turbo engine and not a 2.5L? Engine blocks are developed as "families", or as a series, often spanning from 1.6L to 2.3L in the same basic engine block, for benefits of scale. The larger of the series is often stretched to the max; the remaining block material between the cylinder bores get very thin, not a problem on a non turbo 2.5, but once you add boost to it, its simply too little area to make a headgasket with enough material to keep the pressures in. It would blow headgaskets every which way from monday to sunday. So, once the plan is to have a 400hp 4 cylinder, you know your going to need a pretty beefy headgasket, and possibly also machine o-ring grooves in the block. Thats why they select the smaller displacement version of an engine family for the turbo version. Because this is the only version from the engine family with enough space to do so.This has always been the case, and one can follow this trend from the 70's euro turbos to this day. Physics doesn't become obsolete just because newer cars come along.
Yeah, the presenter is talking a fair amount of scutter here. There's a clatter of production engines ranging from 1.0L to 5.0L+, turbo & non-turbo, 3cyl to 8cyl that are successful and commonplace. It's more likely that a 2.0L is accepted more commonly across the globe. Europeans are happy with it, not too big or small. The economy market in the US & Aus can flog a few. The Asian, African & South American markets can sell them as premium cars. An easier job selling 2.0L 4L in the US than selling a 3.5 V6 in the UK. That kind of thing.
US has super cheap petrol. Sweden pays nearly 4 times more atm. That's why you have had V8's for so long whereas the rest of the world haven't. US is the continent which logically should have the smallest engined, slowest cars, compared to Europe's not as extreme police force, Autobahn etc.
Because displacement based taxes are still are thing in most parts of the world. This is the real reason. There are countries that are baffled on how to tax luxury cars with 1.6l engines.
Tax should be based on CO2 emissions/pollution produced during manufacturing and driving. Electric car battery production is a huge factor for this kind of tax.
That’s also why Peugeot cars in general have a max of 1.6 4 cyl and they have removed the 2.0 hdi from every PSA car including Opel and its English equivalent
@@TheHipClip tbh, over the lifetime of the vehicle, battery co2 is negligable compared to continued use of petroleum... however, yes it's true all manufacturing will create co2 or other pollution, it's somewhat unavoidable.
@Mck Idyl Actually, yes they do care. They care because they know that what taxes a customer has to pay on the car is a large decision maker when someone is purchasing a car.
Guys this was incredibly well done. Perfect length, perfect amount of content vs snark and the delivery is just...perfect. I’ll never scroll past another one of your videos if the execution continues at this quality. Bravo my dudes.
SAAB basically started this wave in 1974 with the 99 Turbo. Then in the late 80's came the LPT cars. Low pressure turbo (6 psi) small instant boost for a Torquey around town car. Currently doing 30,000 miles a year in my Saab 9000 Aero with 317bhp with its "Stock" engine. Not modified other than Tuning the amazing SAAB Trionic5 which will go down as one of the best engine management systems of all time. Considering it came out in 1993 its ground breaking even now and does more than many aftermarket systems.
@@M.S-Music That standard reply does not really cut it anymore. The B202, B204 and B234 bare little resemblance to the Triumph engine. My B234 is in standard form with no changes and running 317bhp. I hardly think the Triumph engine would make over 300bhp lol.
Exactly. When the other companies had big turbos for huge power gains (and huge turbo lag) Saab did the Opposite. Low pressure , loads of torque instantly for a bigger engine feel. They understood it was a road car and not a racing car.
I remembered when Clarkson was testing an Aston Martin, I think it was the current Vantage V12, for the closing of an episode of TG fifteen years ago or something around that, but instead of “reviewing” it he talked about how that kind of cars was soon to be a thing of the past turning something that might've been really cool into something beautifully depressing and Mike here reminded me of that segment. It was meant to be funny and light-hearted with the animations and Musk popping as a volcano but it gave me that harrowing sensation, although my word choice can be taken as heavy-handed, of impending loss. Anyway, I really like Mike's work on the channel. Keep it up. Kudos.
Internal combustion engines will never fully die off honestly. There's already so many people aware of and saddened by their upcoming obsolescence that there's almost guaranteed to be heritage movements based around the IC engine well before the final car using an IC engine even rolls off the production line. And being a heritage movement doesn't mean new developments don't happen either, it just means they tend to be more hobbyist in nature although big things do happen as you can see with heritage steam locomotives: that Steam Train which Clarkson fired on TG (The A1 Tornado) was newly built in the 2000s using the old design and it's inspired other groups to try rebuilding "extinct" locomotives! I actually look forward to it because things being more hobbyist in nature tends to make them more interesting IMO, there's a lot of things that change with two examples being companies aren't quite as concerned about the confidentiality of their internal research when it's on now-obsolete subjects (ie. We'll likely see in-depth information/research on IC engines become public over time) or how cutting the amount of IC users effects the emissions problem. (eg. Engines like the 426 Hemi are an unsustainable engine if you're trying to put one in everyone's daily driver, but it's a completely different case if we're only talking about a few thousand petrolheads around the planet having one in a car they occasionally take out for special occasions)
A naturally aspirated, oversquare, inline 6, with less than 500cc per cylinder, revving to 8k, just hits different. It won't win the numbers game, but the experience is just glorious. My 1993, manual, M50, 525i, with cams, port&polished head, headers, full custom exhaust, bigger throttle body and maf sensor from a V8, and standalone ECU.......is still slow AF, but it sings to 8k, and I wouldn't change that feeling for the world.
500 cc for all configurations means the same, valves, pistons and conrods right across the range from 3 cylinder to 10 cylinder. It is all about mass production and getting costs down. Also if you look at UK made cars you find the engines were mostly 1000cc, 1500cc, 2000cc, 2500cc, 3000cc and 3500cc.
500cc per cylinder is the sweet spot. 2 litre 4 cylinders, 3 litre 6 Cylinders, 4 Litre 8 Cylinders , 5 litre 10 cylinders and 6 Litre 12 cylinders... But the real reason will be the marketing department making sure they can sell cars in every territory they are in. And a lot of countries still have a taxation threshold of 2 litres..
@@axilleasnot in America. Our best selling vehicles are big 5500lbs pickup trucks. Ford has a 3.5l v6 twin turbo and 5.0l V8 Coyote found in the Mustang GT. Chevy has the 5.3 and 6.2 LS based V8, similar to the older Corvettes and Camaros.
True, the tax gets a bit nasty above 2.0L here in Poland. But honestly, this might be an unpopular opinion among car enthusiasts, but I think you don't need more for your regular public road car that you use to get to work and get your groceries. A track car, however, is a different story : )
It's interesting to see these Benz 2.0's advertising 400hp. Coming from the 4G63 world, 400hp isn't new by a long shot. People having been making that relatively easily for over 20 years. And Mistubishi isn't alone in that. It's also been the case with the 2.0 Cosworth YB, the 2.0 Nissan SR20DET, and the 2.0 Toyota 3SGTE amongst others. Manufacturers had the right idea 20-30 years ago when these engines were conceived. Having flirted with other stuff for years, the OEM's are finally coming back around to 2000cc turbo four cylinders. Only now they're direct-inject, variable valve timing, and have much more sophisticated fuel management. They're more robust and refined, but they're following an old recipe.
Didnt that evo engine need servicing every 6k (or less) and wouldnt break 30mpg, also the amg engine will make boost around 2500rpm. We all know people have had 400bhp out of all those wicked old engines. But the modern stuff is so refined.
Yeah but a reliable 400hp in a 2.0 road car with normal service intervals and runs in 95octane is very different. I come from the same type of background and all of the cars you mentioned are very temperamental and most want pass an emissions test when the blow flames every time the throttle shuts from being on boost lol
@@sirjakethebrit Oh absolutely. The newer stuff has a better torque curve, better mpg, and is certainly cleaner. A well built 4G with a forged rotating assembly and properly tuned will last forever. It's really the manual transmission and transfer case which give up first. That's why we see so many built auto's in those care nowadays.
Even though its a handbuilt AMG engine, I wonder how long it will last at 210hp per litre when everyone else settles at 170ps as the most used highest specific output?
I have a 3.0L inline 6 with an 86x86mm bore. Engine is 2jz-ge in my IS300. I love driving it because of its torquey power curve and instant throttle response. It also sounds great!
@@whocares264 I just don’t understand that part. I want a growling Coyote 5.0 (like in my Jaguar) or a Mid engine Vette! Around 1910-1914, there were electric cars all over NYC and charging stations everywhere. If that had kept going, I wouldn’t be into cars at all. (Lithium wasn’t used yet, which killed it off) Sure, there faster with instant torque, but 0-60 in 4.0 seconds like I can do now is ok. And love that deep rumbling….just don’t like Quiet in cars. The new supercars are all hybrid and that’s cool.
I read an article years back written by an auto engineer that was very similar to this video. His preferred displacements, were 2.0l 4 cylinder, 3.2l v6, 4.4l V8. Made sense
What's kind of funny about this video is that this might be changing as we speak. Mazda's most used displacement at this point is their 2.5L engine, and Ford has been steadily replacing their 2.0T with their 2.3T ever since it was introduced. Subaru likewise is phasing out everything in favor of a 2.4L displacement.
@@stevenp3176 Yeah, this is a much bigger reason that they didn't talk about. The secondary forces in an inline 4 are unbalanced, so engines bigger than 2.0L need balance shafts. But for economy applications, the reciprocating mass of engines under 2.0L is small enough that you can keep that in check without shafts. This is why the Honda D series 1.5L engines were small and peppy but buzzy, and the K24 engines were smooth but slower revving.
@@stuntmonkey00 Needing balance shafts over 2.0L depends on the usage. A big part of why automakers are going for 2.3-2.5L is because there's an increase in the importance of torque over hp in the modern car market. Mazda's 2.5 turbo, for example, makes max power at 5,000RPM, and doesn't rev over 6,000. Lack of balance isn't as big of a problem when you don't rev high. None of the engines I mentioned have balance shafts either. I think the last inline 4 to use those was GM's massive 2.9L
For all the years that my Jeep patriot was made(2007 to 2017) it came with 2 engine choices 2.0L or 2.4L inline 4 bangers.......My 2014 2.4L runs great.
The ending is a bit sad, but it makes you grateful if you're over a certain age that you lived through a time of the internal combustion engine in cars and motorbikes. What a great period in time. Such a shame it's all coming to an end. I know times moves on but i'll miss the smell and noise of my petrol engines 😟
I'm unreasonably upset by OBDeleven as a name. It feels like someone just misread the spec. The port is called an on board diagnostics port, and this was version 2. It's written OBDII, with the Roman numeral 2. That's not 2 ones, and not an eleven. Furthermore, this tool didn't suddenly skip 9 versions of the OBD spec.
Bruh, do you know how many trademarks are on OBD named devices? When companies do things like this they don't have the trademark for the name they want to actually use.
Give up on video once he said that and also trying explain it as something new when they have been about for decades.Clearly that's poorly researched so could be talking wham for nearly 13 minutes.
@@cenciende9401 It is a consumer market rally engine from the Mitsubishi Lancer *Evo* . It was sold to public, but not exactly an every day car. The actual engine core is the 4G63 which was the core engine of all the Evos of that era. FQ-400 was a specific tuning package of it available from Ralliart (the Mitsubishi tuning and motorsports division). Thus available, but not like one would find it on normal everyday car shop floor. Soooo ehhh weird sports car specialty shop rare. Like you could get one, if you asked and paid Ralliart, but not something one would trip over in normal mitsubishi dealer. One would trip over more garden variety evos instead, with less powerful tuning setup. The 400 hp is not that weird, since most likely it was the rally engine with restrictor removed. The championship spec engines made 300 hp for all of the WR cars of that era. However that was with air restrictor. Everyone knew everyone's engine was capable more without the restrictor. Thus the FQ-400 was probably pretty high race tuned WR engine setup without the air intake restrictor plate. After all Ralliart was the shop also tuning the actual WRC team engines.
This is an interesting video, but I disagree with the claim that "almost all modern engines are 2.0 litres". On Autotrader right now there just under 83,000 cars for sale that are 2019 or younger. Of those, just over 14,500 are 2.0 litres (that includes a standard ICE, self charge hybrid and PHEV). So in actual fact most engines are not 2.0. The claim that 3 cyl engines are generally 1.5 or 1.6 also isn't true, by far the biggest majority of 3 cyl engines are 1.0.
In reality most entry and compact cars have an engine under 2L and most midsize sedans and anything bigger than that is generally pushing 2.5L or is significantly bigger
@@andrewgarcia3136 No argument from me there, but title asks why "almost all modern engines are 2.0 litres", which is not the same as 'up to' 2.0 litres (this would be correct, certainly in the UK)
I would have purchased the XC90 if it had retained the 5 cyl 2.4 litre engine, (D5?) but it seems to have vanished. Back in 1975 when my new Mercedes-Benz W115 230.4 (2307cc 4cyl) brand new- I collected it from Sindelfingen - at 6 weeks suffered ‘a hair out of place’ in the otherwise marvellous MB Automatic gearbox, they took it away (very quietly) and loaned me the then brand new 240D 3.0 litre 5 cyl engine, now called the 300D. It was so smooth (relatively), we had it for 6 weeks and 1500km, taking our two young children to the Ruhr, Wüppertal zoo (1975 remember - before zoos became abhorrent to civilisation) - and it returned 29 mpg, which considering it kept to 150 kph on the Autobahns, was very reasonable. At any rate I got mine back with a brand new gearbox (on inquiring as to what was the problem, came the furtive reply “Herr Hauptmann Simpson (I was in the RAF) we prefer not to discuss it, just enjoy your nice new Mercedes-Benz”. Oh, …….right-oh! Vielen dank! Incidentally that 230.4 is still in my garage outside, after 46 years. Needs a ‘bit of work’. Anyway, for my final purchase (I’m 77 yo) I’ve decided on a Mercedes ML63 AMG (V8 5.5 litre) with 515 lbs/ft of torque so I will hardly need the throttle to launch and keep going. I’ve been looking for over 12 months, for ‘the one’.
I actually really enjoyed this, very informative, enjoyable and giving me old school, top gear vibes maybe just need some co hosts and a trip to Africa 💯
One really great thing about standardization with 500 cc - car makers can finally tune their engines to perfection, especially in power output and mpg (hopefully in reliability too).
Wow.....The Drive Tribes production values keep getting better and better, this one was worthy of being a Clarkson, Hammond, or May piece on the old Top Gear........the only thing that would of made it perfect, would of been Mike wearing his BC Lions cap.
The very common and popular Toyota 1UZ engine is a 4.0l V8 and has been documented lasting 1M miles and being stout for building. Nissan has also made 3.0l V6 motors but he was implying 3.0l for I6 motors I believe
@@1S1KC0DM4N mine 745d v8 single turbo e65 had 860k km when I sold it was torque monster. Only problem of the car was automatic gearbox which could not handle torque so we rebuild it twice in my ownership (470k km)
@@superchickenlips1 their 632 crate engine makes 1004 hp/876ft. Ibs torque in the deluxe package, naturally aspirated. There’s a reason the ls swap is one of the most popular swaps.
Mostly true but they are also under the hammer to get their 'fleet wide' (meaning vehicles sold) CO2 emissions down to a specific target. Hence you've seen the likes of Audi drop v8 engines from the S6 (now a V6) and a bunch of other amendments to try to drive down overall corporate CO2 numbers,,,
I'm amazed by the B420T27 that's in my wife's 2016 Volvo XC90 T6 AWD. It's a turbocharged and supercharged 2.0L L4 that makes upto 316 hp (235 kW) at 5700 rpm and 400 N.m (300 lbf-ft) of torque between 2200-5400 rpm. For a car that size, to be ONLY powered by a 2L powerplant, that's pretty amazing/incredible. (The Mercedes M139 which makes 416 HP @ 6750 rpm and 500 N.m (369 lbf.ft) @ 5000-5250 rpm is just ridiculous how much power they've been able to squeeze out of a tiny 2L engine.)
The last bit he said about people bemoaning how clinical engines are now but peoples perception will change is true and has made me think differently. Sadly the age of petrol is about to come to a close, but for now, be glad you can buy a hatchback that would outperform the supercars you grew up knowing you'd never be able to get.
age of petrol coming to a close? are you planning on killing the tens of millions of people who support petrol over electric? politicians, oil company investors & employees, miners & drillers, big rig drivers, gas stations, average joe, etc. the age of petrol is just getting started
@@Hyrppa95 small scale electric is great, large scale electric is unrealistic… as you said, people support whatever is available and petrol is the only available source. wish it wasn’t so but it is true
This was a highly educational and entertaining episode. I really appreciate the intentionally low-budget effects of super imposing model train set and doggos in the back seat and the low rez Elon Musk gif More of this please, keep the wonderful cinematography but there is nothing wrong with those campy pictures and effects thrown in - it adds charm and character
Yes! Bring on the guy whose take is refreshingly different and we'll never miss Clarkson's tail slides. The sad thing is, Clarkson USED to be the guy with the refreshingly different ideas.
@@johntechwriter I wouldn’t say Jezza’s days in the spotlight for those things are over, but he doesn’t seem to have the same free form lunacy he had on Top Gear compared to the almost scripted feel of his delivery on The Grand Tour. If DriveTribe gives him carte blamche, we should be fine.
The idea that some students found that 500cc was the optimum while 100 years of combined engine engineering experience failed to discover this is ludicrous. Tell this story to someone else and maybe go check some WW2 airplane engines.
I'd actually love to see a car manufacturer come out with a V4. They sound fantastic and would be a far more interesting alternative to the endless ocean of inline 4s, without compromising in fuel consumption and emissions.
^^^It’s been done, read this article to see all the pros and cons. For me the biggest con is cost and reliability, you have to manufacture two cylinder heads instead of one, 2 head gaskets to fail instead of one etc, etc. I own a v8 and an in-line 4 though so to each there own!
3 points. 1 - the comments section here is amazing. Seems like genuine fans of a go fast pedal or throttle, not just a TV show. 2 - The dinosaur segment was incredibly complex and intelligent. But with an ease the my kids also understand. 3 - can't even remember, but I will make an edit later if it pops back in!
2 liter turbo engines are indeed great, enough power, not too heavy. Also my car from 2010 with a 2 liter turbo works very well, also great at low revs, and with sofware tuning it has also now 240hp/400nm with original hardware, and fuel consumption is also not bad (outside the city) Very compentive with modern 2 liter turbo engines.
the dinosaur/bird/mammal bit was cute, especially considering that the large flightless birds were universally killed off by humans instead of going extinct naturally
Really enjoyed this. As a kid in the 90s I used to read car magazines religiously, and took great delight in seeing all the different engine configurations. Now as an adult looking to buy my first new car, everything around me seems to be an inline 4. The little kid inside me is a bit dissappointed, but cars perform so excellently now so it's hard to be too upset.
@@aaronm1246 Lambo is still advancing the V12 for the upcoming Aventador Ultimae, the BMW m760i still has a V12. The DB11, Maybach, Rolls even puts it in 4 different models.. How can you even forget the Ferrari 812 V12, the highest hp-delivering N/A V12 ever made? As long as we have people with deep enough pockets to buy these over-taxed powerbeasts they will keep the V12 alive. Long live displacement!
@@aaronm1246 New engines haven't been really developed in years. Most engines are advancements of older engines. Look at BMW: the n54 was the first 3l twin-turbo I6 back in 2006. The n55 followed up, different turbo-setup but advanced from the n54. The S55 (M3/M4) is advanced from the n55. The B58 is advanced from the N55 and S55. Engineers don't throw away old working products, they work from what they have and improve. New engines will be made as soon as they find completely new techniques that will greatly outperform the older ones, and can't be applied on the old setup. The valve tech of the Koenigsegg Gemera 3cyl ICE engine can be classified as a new better technique, but is still to expensive to add on regular road cars.
F1: 1.6l, turbo v6, hybrid. No just joking. My car is also a 2.0l 4 cylinder Bi-Turbo diesel. And even my 2-cylinder motorbike (Xb12) uses an 88,9mm bore. Thanks for this refreshing video. It sure makes things clear now.
@@asphalthedgehog6580 It sledom turns out that way in the long run. Or you're going to get one massive bill later. They would have been even better less complicated.
Well 1.5L is still 500cc/cyl. You kind of don't want to go to less than 3 cylinders because the engine balance, power delivery (smoothness) and sound will be absolutely horrible, so just building a smaller 3cyl is the best compromise
@@nielsdebakker3283 can never have enough swept volume or power, makes the car nicer to drive thanks to low down torque, which highly strung 2l 4pot dont have.
Love the analogy at the end of the video, the dinosaurs will only have a decade or so and I can't imagine manufacturers spending resources further developing these engines when they will hit the scrap heap so soon. This will be the peak evolution of these engines before extinction.
I feel the vw 1.4l is an excellent exemption from the 500cc idea. I have the 17 GTI and the 2.0l is fun but I had a 17 jetta with a 1.4l and it was plenty fast with 170tq
The most unreliable things on modern engines are emissions control devices. I would avoid buying modern diesels for this reason. Petrols are going the same way.
Honestly one of the best edited videos I’ve ever seen. Information wise eh, could be a bit better. More devoted to a single point and fully describing it would be better.
@Capt Shiny Multinational companies do nor recognise UK as a separate entity. Everyone applies to the same rules. Not even speaking of the elusive "German students". Well, the Queen being German is probably the only connection to that.
Would have been nice to not have my ears blown out by that awful PEAK TORQUE bit. But yes, same reason the Audi/VW 07K engine is a 2498cc inline 5, using much of the same components as the beastly EA888 inline 4 setup
Nothing sounds better than a high winding American V8. The exception being a high winding Italian V12. Oh well I guess we all will be going to electric cars sooner or later, but I’m glad I’m too old to see this happen totally.
Cool video, always informative. One thing I wonder about these 2.0T engines though: Durability? They are pretty high strung, long term I doubt they can last as long as a normally aspirated engine. Time will tell but I have a feeling they won't.
I never would have thought that I would love 4.cyc. but I do now. First one 6 years ago, Mercedes metris van...2 liter and I can tow 5000 pounds. I'm at 95,000 miles and zero cost. Bought my wife a X3 with 2 liter, its amazing. I just bought a BMW 430i, I had chipped, 300hp lots of fun and I get 35 mpg on the interstate. Love the 2 liters now!
I would take a larger 6 or 8 cylinder normally aspirated engine over a 2 litre turbo any day of the week. Smoother, more reliable as less to go wrong and in the real world not much difference in fuel consumption.
Agreed. I purchased a 2018 Murano even with small fears over the CVT specifically because it uses a 3.5L V6. I've known a couple friends and coworkers who have had turbo issues (mostly GM products to be fair). Still get 26-28 MPG on the highway with enough power to make merging easy and safe.
I drive a modern 2ltr twin turbo Jaguar This gives me the best of most worlds It’s lighter than a V6 by some 58kg It’s more frugal than a V6 or V8 It’s more agile being lighter It’s power output per litre is greater It’s a revvy engine , max power comes in at 1500rpm. The only thing that’s not in its favour against the V6 and V8 is the engine notes. But overall it’s a peach
thats agreeable due to price of petrol. 1l engine fuel efficiency go easy on most of normal people.and turbo became the answer of lack of power of those engine. with 3 pistons.size of engine became smaller and those space can be used for turbo. majority of people live in city just want power of torque to go from traffic light to another traffic light,and most of them hardly go more than 70mph ,so that its enough for them to have fun with cheap.its maybe a low horse but its a fun one for sure
Things got dark and dismal at the end, predictions of fast golf carts taking over. I'm 75, I won't (probably) have to live in a world of all EVs, until that time I have my '16 Mazda MX-5, a two liter in-line four mated to a six speed manual transmission. You can have your dismal brave new world.
If you really think about it: - Cubic Centimetre…magic word = cubic (1:1) - oil is often stored in cubic-like storage (1:1) - natural gas is often stored in round cubic-like storage (1:1) - buckets are almost cubic-like shaped (1:1)
Exactly. I had a chance to test out a lot of cars and turbo lag is present in every turbo car. Most noticeable thing in turbo manual cars to me was the short torque dip on every gear change.
@@BlitzkriegRap i think my entire enjoyment of the driving experience is tied to it's response to my inputs, it's the connection, and both turbos and autos take away from that. Moderns cars are almost all incredibly boring, even if they're fast it feels like someone else is driving and I don't like the bus.
Im so glad Im of an age where I will dead before the last of the V10, V8 & V6 production cars are no longer available to purchased used and gladly I will die with a soul who's ears still tingle with the roar of my V8 at full chat. Electric cars are so soulless it hurts me to think that my great grandchildren will never know the pleasure of driving an internal combustion engine vehicle.
In South Korea, vehicle taxes are decided by the size of the engine. For example, 2.0L Mercedes is cheaper than 3.5L Kia. Which is ironic that the price difference between two cars are nearly double.
Same here in Jordan ...
Koreans copy literally EVERYTHING from europeans. Cars, engineering, art, even the laws.. It's ridiculous.
That’s also why Peugeot cars in general have a max of 1.6 4 cyl and they have removed the 2.0 hdi from every PSA car including Opel and its English equivalent
@@ivangamer8022 hmmm displays, memories is designed engeneered and produced in Korea idk what you are talking about. Its an insult to not recognize Korea as a semiconductor and electronics powerhouse. I wont talk about art because idk anything about it, but car design is copied by many car companies outside of Korea, laws can be copied because they work if some country pass law where it prohibit child labor does it mean that they copy laws from Europe ?
@@ivangamer8022 Hey Child, it is “European”. Also, Koreans copied cars during the past, but mostly from Japan, not Europe.
"If you're looking for 1000hp, you're not going to get it from an inline four"
Civic tuners: "Hold my valve springs bro"
My first thought was the Lancia Delta S4's twincharged 1.8L I4. When they tuned the boost to the max, that thing could hit 1000hp. For racing, they capped it at 490 (officially).
You can easily get this with an electric drivetrain
*GM EcoTec motors have entered the chat*
@@walterrudich2175 BLASPHEME!!!
Cast the heretic out from the Cathedral of Carbon!
But yeah... True.
@@brokenursa9986 yes the Fiat Twin cam is a solid design that has lasted and been fitted to an insane amount of vehicles. Power depends on build internals and turbo / charger , and head cams fitted. Look up Triflux engine abarth special design for S4 ECV Grp S .
This was awesome, I originally subscribed to this channel for clarkson hammond and may but after seeing this I'd love to watch a whole series explaining different engine designs and trends and technologies.
Mike & May Discuss Transport Technologies would be a series I could get behind. I've been hoping they would pair up for something more since the repairing of Mike's model loco.
Seem's like the big boys really don't have much to do with it these days, what with being busy with their side projects or the Grand Tour. The most you see of any of them these days is either Hammond or Clarkson plugging their pet projects or May at the spin off channel Food Tribe......CHEESE!
Same here
Agreed
The reason for subscription will be same for 90 % of the subscribers including me..😂🤣
The 3 liter, inline-6 engine. Same 500 cm³ "chamber", but in a better balanced engine. It's a joy to drive a normally aspirated one.
Straight-6 is great. Only issue is packaging due to the length.
@@martintaper7997 it is an issue, which is why they're not as common except for a few cases. i6 are usually about 80% longer than a V6 with similar displacement (i6's main competitor is v6, not i4). and although v6 is wider, it's still easier for packaging due to an almost cube-like shape outline. for most cars, functionality and cost are more important considerations than aesthetics. speaking of smaller i6 like 2 liters, they used to be common but not anymore because of reduced thermal efficiency as mentioned by the cosworth expert in the video.
must agree, got an old e39 530i, super smooth reliable engine!
@@the80386 I had a E89 Z4. It had more than enough place under the hood for that engine.
It might not be for every car, but in those where it can be fitted, it's a pity not to have it.
@@Chris-Workshop I only had a 2500 cm³ inline 6, with ~210 PS, but it was smoother than silk. I really miss it. With double VANOS and Valvetronic, it was a dream.
This 2.0 500cc per cylinder doesn't apply in the US, and the reasons are the following; 2.5L non-turbo, is by far the most common 4 cylinder in the US, and it too, is "best", -atleast for the US. US does not have any hp or engine size based taxation. Hence a car is cheaper to produce, and sell, with a V6 or I6 for a set HP requirement, than a turbo4, which has many more components. 2.5 Litre is about as large as a 4 cylinder can go, before it creates excessive inbalance and vibrations. Larger 2.7 and 2.8L I4 exists, but either with severe vibration issues, or expensive balancing shafts, which makes a V6 the better (cheaper) option again. So why the 2.0 as a turbo engine and not a 2.5L? Engine blocks are developed as "families", or as a series, often spanning from 1.6L to 2.3L in the same basic engine block, for benefits of scale. The larger of the series is often stretched to the max; the remaining block material between the cylinder bores get very thin, not a problem on a non turbo 2.5, but once you add boost to it, its simply too little area to make a headgasket with enough material to keep the pressures in. It would blow headgaskets every which way from monday to sunday. So, once the plan is to have a 400hp 4 cylinder, you know your going to need a pretty beefy headgasket, and possibly also machine o-ring grooves in the block. Thats why they select the smaller displacement version of an engine family for the turbo version. Because this is the only version from the engine family with enough space to do so.This has always been the case, and one can follow this trend from the 70's euro turbos to this day. Physics doesn't become obsolete just because newer cars come along.
Mazda and Subaru both use a 2.5 litre turbo both are successful. Mazda 2.5 litre turbo has no problems
I see a lot of American cars with 2.0 turbos and 1.5 3 cylinder turbo engines. Maybe they are just a popular upgrade over the base.
Yeah, the presenter is talking a fair amount of scutter here. There's a clatter of production engines ranging from 1.0L to 5.0L+, turbo & non-turbo, 3cyl to 8cyl that are successful and commonplace.
It's more likely that a 2.0L is accepted more commonly across the globe. Europeans are happy with it, not too big or small. The economy market in the US & Aus can flog a few. The Asian, African & South American markets can sell them as premium cars.
An easier job selling 2.0L 4L in the US than selling a 3.5 V6 in the UK. That kind of thing.
US has super cheap petrol. Sweden pays nearly 4 times more atm. That's why you have had V8's for so long whereas the rest of the world haven't. US is the continent which logically should have the smallest engined, slowest cars, compared to Europe's not as extreme police force, Autobahn etc.
Soooooo knowledgeable! I just learned more than I ever knew! Gracias Senor!
Because displacement based taxes are still are thing in most parts of the world. This is the real reason. There are countries that are baffled on how to tax luxury cars with 1.6l engines.
Tax should be based on CO2 emissions/pollution produced during manufacturing and driving. Electric car battery production is a huge factor for this kind of tax.
That’s also why Peugeot cars in general have a max of 1.6 4 cyl and they have removed the 2.0 hdi from every PSA car including Opel and its English equivalent
@Mck Idyl "Japan"
@@TheHipClip tbh, over the lifetime of the vehicle, battery co2 is negligable compared to continued use of petroleum... however, yes it's true all manufacturing will create co2 or other pollution, it's somewhat unavoidable.
@Mck Idyl Actually, yes they do care. They care because they know that what taxes a customer has to pay on the car is a large decision maker when someone is purchasing a car.
Guys this was incredibly well done. Perfect length, perfect amount of content vs snark and the delivery is just...perfect. I’ll never scroll past another one of your videos if the execution continues at this quality. Bravo my dudes.
And the filming and editing too!
Excellent article. The cosworth guy oozes engine expertise. I'm on my third 2.0 turbo in a row. Power and delivery has not been a problem.
I love this mixture of car engineering and car passion and consumer discussions. The mix is what makes cars such a wonderful hobby! Great video!
SAAB basically started this wave in 1974 with the 99 Turbo. Then in the late 80's came the LPT cars. Low pressure turbo (6 psi) small instant boost for a Torquey around town car. Currently doing 30,000 miles a year in my Saab 9000 Aero with 317bhp with its "Stock" engine. Not modified other than Tuning the amazing SAAB Trionic5 which will go down as one of the best engine management systems of all time. Considering it came out in 1993 its ground breaking even now and does more than many aftermarket systems.
And that engine was not originally a SAAB creation, its an engine made by UK Triumph engineers in the 60´s.
@@M.S-Music That standard reply does not really cut it anymore. The B202, B204 and B234 bare little resemblance to the Triumph engine. My B234 is in standard form with no changes and running 317bhp. I hardly think the Triumph engine would make over 300bhp lol.
Yeah saab was wayy ahead of everyone with their 2.0T engines
Exactly. When the other companies had big turbos for huge power gains (and huge turbo lag) Saab did the Opposite. Low pressure , loads of torque instantly for a bigger engine feel.
They understood it was a road car and not a racing car.
Swedes have it sussed already, volvo followed suite, until they became geeeeeeely 🤦♂️
I remembered when Clarkson was testing an Aston Martin, I think it was the current Vantage V12, for the closing of an episode of TG fifteen years ago or something around that, but instead of “reviewing” it he talked about how that kind of cars was soon to be a thing of the past turning something that might've been really cool into something beautifully depressing and Mike here reminded me of that segment. It was meant to be funny and light-hearted with the animations and Musk popping as a volcano but it gave me that harrowing sensation, although my word choice can be taken as heavy-handed, of impending loss. Anyway, I really like Mike's work on the channel. Keep it up. Kudos.
Very true, its been doom and gloom about emissions for the past 3 years and yet the valkyrie is about to release
th-cam.com/video/5Q0Svvdrx_E/w-d-xo.html
one of clarksons best pieces that in my opinion.
Internal combustion engines will never fully die off honestly. There's already so many people aware of and saddened by their upcoming obsolescence that there's almost guaranteed to be heritage movements based around the IC engine well before the final car using an IC engine even rolls off the production line. And being a heritage movement doesn't mean new developments don't happen either, it just means they tend to be more hobbyist in nature although big things do happen as you can see with heritage steam locomotives: that Steam Train which Clarkson fired on TG (The A1 Tornado) was newly built in the 2000s using the old design and it's inspired other groups to try rebuilding "extinct" locomotives!
I actually look forward to it because things being more hobbyist in nature tends to make them more interesting IMO, there's a lot of things that change with two examples being companies aren't quite as concerned about the confidentiality of their internal research when it's on now-obsolete subjects (ie. We'll likely see in-depth information/research on IC engines become public over time) or how cutting the amount of IC users effects the emissions problem. (eg. Engines like the 426 Hemi are an unsustainable engine if you're trying to put one in everyone's daily driver, but it's a completely different case if we're only talking about a few thousand petrolheads around the planet having one in a car they occasionally take out for special occasions)
th-cam.com/video/5Q0Svvdrx_E/w-d-xo.html
A naturally aspirated, oversquare, inline 6, with less than 500cc per cylinder, revving to 8k, just hits different.
It won't win the numbers game, but the experience is just glorious.
My 1993, manual, M50, 525i, with cams, port&polished head, headers, full custom exhaust, bigger throttle body and maf sensor from a V8, and standalone ECU.......is still slow AF, but it sings to 8k, and I wouldn't change that feeling for the world.
I'm on your side :)
Spoken like a true enthusiast
>entry level engine on most cars
>perfect engine
pick one
500 cc for all configurations means the same, valves, pistons and conrods right across the range from 3 cylinder to 10 cylinder. It is all about mass production and getting costs down. Also if you look at UK made cars you find the engines were mostly 1000cc, 1500cc, 2000cc, 2500cc, 3000cc and 3500cc.
The 1100cc, 1200cc, 1300cc were all popular especially Ford's in the 80s and 90s.
@@glennoc8585 probably because they didnt used cc but another US imperial unit? (I am curious not joking ahahah)
500cc per cylinder is the sweet spot. 2 litre 4 cylinders, 3 litre 6 Cylinders, 4 Litre 8 Cylinders , 5 litre 10 cylinders and 6 Litre 12 cylinders... But the real reason will be the marketing department making sure they can sell cars in every territory they are in. And a lot of countries still have a taxation threshold of 2 litres..
*Crying in Greek, we even tax 50cc mopeds here
@@axilleas Same here in the UK
@@axilleasnot in America. Our best selling vehicles are big 5500lbs pickup trucks. Ford has a 3.5l v6 twin turbo and 5.0l V8 Coyote found in the Mustang GT. Chevy has the 5.3 and 6.2 LS based V8, similar to the older Corvettes and Camaros.
True, the tax gets a bit nasty above 2.0L here in Poland. But honestly, this might be an unpopular opinion among car enthusiasts, but I think you don't need more for your regular public road car that you use to get to work and get your groceries. A track car, however, is a different story : )
It's interesting to see these Benz 2.0's advertising 400hp. Coming from the 4G63 world, 400hp isn't new by a long shot. People having been making that relatively easily for over 20 years. And Mistubishi isn't alone in that. It's also been the case with the 2.0 Cosworth YB, the 2.0 Nissan SR20DET, and the 2.0 Toyota 3SGTE amongst others. Manufacturers had the right idea 20-30 years ago when these engines were conceived. Having flirted with other stuff for years, the OEM's are finally coming back around to 2000cc turbo four cylinders. Only now they're direct-inject, variable valve timing, and have much more sophisticated fuel management. They're more robust and refined, but they're following an old recipe.
The difference, is that a new Mercedes 2.0 Turbo with 400hp will last a lot longer and be a lot more reliable than any 4G63 engine will.
Didnt that evo engine need servicing every 6k (or less) and wouldnt break 30mpg, also the amg engine will make boost around 2500rpm.
We all know people have had 400bhp out of all those wicked old engines. But the modern stuff is so refined.
Time will tell. Thing is the Toyota engine will Still be a strong engine in its 50th year. Can't see the merc being the same.
Yeah but a reliable 400hp in a 2.0 road car with normal service intervals and runs in 95octane is very different. I come from the same type of background and all of the cars you mentioned are very temperamental and most want pass an emissions test when the blow flames every time the throttle shuts from being on boost lol
@@sirjakethebrit Oh absolutely. The newer stuff has a better torque curve, better mpg, and is certainly cleaner. A well built 4G with a forged rotating assembly and properly tuned will last forever. It's really the manual transmission and transfer case which give up first. That's why we see so many built auto's in those care nowadays.
The Mercedes-AMG A 45 S 4MATIC+ is not just flirting with 400hp, it actually does produce 421 hp from its 1991 cm³ engine.
Even though its a handbuilt AMG engine, I wonder how long it will last at 210hp per litre when everyone else settles at 170ps as the most used highest specific output?
Can you all stop referring to AMG 45 as some Benchmark when Mitsubishi Toyota Saab Audi were pioneers of turbo charging road going cars....
@@TheMuzikall why would it not be the benchmark when it is the record holder?
@@TheMuzikall It is the benchmark...
@@TheMuzikall Stop crying
I have a 3.0L inline 6 with an 86x86mm bore. Engine is 2jz-ge in my IS300. I love driving it because of its torquey power curve and instant throttle response. It also sounds great!
4 cylinder is no replacement for a 6. I’ve made the move and really miss my smooth quiet powerful 6.
I agree, I went back to 8 despite the 6 having a whopping 335 HP! My new one has 510
If you want smooth and quiet go electric...
@@whocares264 I just don’t understand that part. I want a growling Coyote 5.0 (like in my Jaguar) or a Mid engine Vette! Around 1910-1914, there were electric cars all over NYC and charging stations everywhere. If that had kept going, I wouldn’t be into cars at all. (Lithium wasn’t used yet, which killed it off) Sure, there faster with instant torque, but 0-60 in 4.0 seconds like I can do now is ok. And love that deep rumbling….just don’t like Quiet in cars. The new supercars are all hybrid and that’s cool.
I read an article years back written by an auto engineer that was very similar to this video. His preferred displacements, were 2.0l 4 cylinder, 3.2l v6, 4.4l V8. Made sense
I'm assuming these engines are DOHC.
@@beachesandhose2374a pushrod 2l i4 would be the saddest engine imaginable lol
What's kind of funny about this video is that this might be changing as we speak. Mazda's most used displacement at this point is their 2.5L engine, and Ford has been steadily replacing their 2.0T with their 2.3T ever since it was introduced. Subaru likewise is phasing out everything in favor of a 2.4L displacement.
@@stevenp3176 Yeah, this is a much bigger reason that they didn't talk about. The secondary forces in an inline 4 are unbalanced, so engines bigger than 2.0L need balance shafts. But for economy applications, the reciprocating mass of engines under 2.0L is small enough that you can keep that in check without shafts. This is why the Honda D series 1.5L engines were small and peppy but buzzy, and the K24 engines were smooth but slower revving.
@@stuntmonkey00 Needing balance shafts over 2.0L depends on the usage. A big part of why automakers are going for 2.3-2.5L is because there's an increase in the importance of torque over hp in the modern car market. Mazda's 2.5 turbo, for example, makes max power at 5,000RPM, and doesn't rev over 6,000. Lack of balance isn't as big of a problem when you don't rev high. None of the engines I mentioned have balance shafts either. I think the last inline 4 to use those was GM's massive 2.9L
For all the years that my Jeep patriot was made(2007 to 2017) it came with 2 engine choices 2.0L or 2.4L inline 4 bangers.......My 2014 2.4L runs great.
Porsche just put a V8 in their mommy mobile
@@ashuramamun9488 "Just." The Cayenne has had a V8 since it was introduced 20 years ago.
The perfect engine is a straight 6. That’s engineering.
Yep!
The ending is a bit sad, but it makes you grateful if you're over a certain age that you lived through a time of the internal combustion engine in cars and motorbikes. What a great period in time. Such a shame it's all coming to an end. I know times moves on but i'll miss the smell and noise of my petrol engines 😟
Don't worry eFuels will save the petrol engine
i’m living that life now sadly
I loved the idea of an OBDeleven until I saw that it needs a subscription. I'm so tired of every commercial product requiring a subscription.
I'm unreasonably upset by OBDeleven as a name. It feels like someone just misread the spec.
The port is called an on board diagnostics port, and this was version 2. It's written OBDII, with the Roman numeral 2. That's not 2 ones, and not an eleven. Furthermore, this tool didn't suddenly skip 9 versions of the OBD spec.
definitely!
Me, too. I stopped the video at that spot just to scroll through the comments to see who else felt the same. Now back to the video.
Yeah that tripped me up as well. At first I thought he'd misread it but that's the actual device name. If it's a play on words, it's a poor one.
Bruh, do you know how many trademarks are on OBD named devices? When companies do things like this they don't have the trademark for the name they want to actually use.
Give up on video once he said that and also trying explain it as something new when they have been about for decades.Clearly that's poorly researched so could be talking wham for nearly 13 minutes.
Mitsubishi pushed that 2-liter 4-cyl turbo envelope to 400 hp 17 years ago with the FQ-400.
Ok, but don't ask for the service interval or guarantee.
So that was a common and easily available car to the general public was it?
@@cenciende9401 It is a consumer market rally engine from the Mitsubishi Lancer *Evo* . It was sold to public, but not exactly an every day car. The actual engine core is the 4G63 which was the core engine of all the Evos of that era. FQ-400 was a specific tuning package of it available from Ralliart (the Mitsubishi tuning and motorsports division). Thus available, but not like one would find it on normal everyday car shop floor. Soooo ehhh weird sports car specialty shop rare. Like you could get one, if you asked and paid Ralliart, but not something one would trip over in normal mitsubishi dealer. One would trip over more garden variety evos instead, with less powerful tuning setup.
The 400 hp is not that weird, since most likely it was the rally engine with restrictor removed. The championship spec engines made 300 hp for all of the WR cars of that era. However that was with air restrictor. Everyone knew everyone's engine was capable more without the restrictor. Thus the FQ-400 was probably pretty high race tuned WR engine setup without the air intake restrictor plate. After all Ralliart was the shop also tuning the actual WRC team engines.
Mitsubishi has no single performance car in the market that can even be put in the same tracks as ordinary Audi RS6
This is an interesting video, but I disagree with the claim that "almost all modern engines are 2.0 litres". On Autotrader right now there just under 83,000 cars for sale that are 2019 or younger. Of those, just over 14,500 are 2.0 litres (that includes a standard ICE, self charge hybrid and PHEV). So in actual fact most engines are not 2.0. The claim that 3 cyl engines are generally 1.5 or 1.6 also isn't true, by far the biggest majority of 3 cyl engines are 1.0.
In reality most entry and compact cars have an engine under 2L and most midsize sedans and anything bigger than that is generally pushing 2.5L or is significantly bigger
Ah - you forgot that facts and entertainment coexist only on full moons. And then only if it’s a leap year on social media :)
@@andrewgarcia3136 No argument from me there, but title asks why "almost all modern engines are 2.0 litres", which is not the same as 'up to' 2.0 litres (this would be correct, certainly in the UK)
@@davidw460 :-)
Most motorbike engines don’t have around 500-cc cylinders either but rather closer to 250 cc or even smaller.
I'm quite happy with my 4.5 v8 twin turbo - 450 bhp, never stressed, smooth as a cashmere codpiece. It pulls from 1000 revs, right up to the red line.
Very interesting! My Volvo has a 2.5L inline 5, also 500cc per cylinder!
The inline 2.5 5 cyl is definitely worthy a place in the engine hall of fame
I had a Landrover Discovery TD5 diesel - also 2,5l in-line 5.
I would have purchased the XC90 if it had retained the 5 cyl 2.4 litre engine, (D5?) but it seems to have vanished.
Back in 1975 when my new Mercedes-Benz W115 230.4 (2307cc 4cyl) brand new- I collected it from Sindelfingen - at 6 weeks suffered ‘a hair out of place’ in the otherwise marvellous MB Automatic gearbox, they took it away (very quietly) and loaned me the then brand new 240D 3.0 litre 5 cyl engine, now called the 300D. It was so smooth (relatively), we had it for 6 weeks and 1500km, taking our two young children to the Ruhr, Wüppertal zoo (1975 remember - before zoos became abhorrent to civilisation) - and it returned 29 mpg, which considering it kept to 150 kph on the Autobahns, was very reasonable. At any rate I got mine back with a brand new gearbox (on inquiring as to what was the problem, came the furtive reply “Herr Hauptmann Simpson (I was in the RAF) we prefer not to discuss it, just enjoy your nice new Mercedes-Benz”. Oh, …….right-oh! Vielen dank!
Incidentally that 230.4 is still in my garage outside, after 46 years. Needs a ‘bit of work’.
Anyway, for my final purchase (I’m 77 yo) I’ve decided on a Mercedes ML63 AMG (V8 5.5 litre) with 515 lbs/ft of torque so I will hardly need the throttle to launch and keep going. I’ve been looking for over 12 months, for ‘the one’.
@@zacharyreynolds4303 you pick boxer 4 over boxer 6? Interesting choice. Why?
I've got a S60 D5 and the S80 with the same engine. Excellent MPG and pretty quick.... for a diesel!!!
I actually really enjoyed this, very informative, enjoyable and giving me old school, top gear vibes maybe just need some co hosts and a trip to Africa 💯
Indeed.
I know right? Felt and sounded like an old Top Gear piece in pretty much every way.....
I was thinking the same thing
I love how Mike is really taking on Clarksons style of talking about cars and making historical and then emotional connections to them. What a guy
One really great thing about standardization with 500 cc - car makers can finally tune their engines to perfection, especially in power output and mpg (hopefully in reliability too).
Have been driving for ages. Thanks to you I learned something new about engines and per cylinder cc.
Awesome 🙏
Whoever edited Elon into this video did it perfectly and has earned their xmas bonus I think, hilarious.
Wow.....The Drive Tribes production values keep getting better and better, this one was worthy of being a Clarkson, Hammond, or May piece on the old Top Gear........the only thing that would of made it perfect, would of been Mike wearing his BC Lions cap.
We have got to the point that Mercs are putting out the equivalent of Group B spec Rally engines in their cars. What a time to be alive.
The "but for how much longer" changed the whole attitude of the video
3.5l V6s are much more common than 3ls. The only 4l V8s I can think of offhand are a BMW and possibly a Jag iirc. Most V8s are closer to 5l.
mercedes and audi does the same nowadays
Idk about v6 but inline 6 is 3.0l most of the time
The very common and popular Toyota 1UZ engine is a 4.0l V8 and has been documented lasting 1M miles and being stout for building. Nissan has also made 3.0l V6 motors but he was implying 3.0l for I6 motors I believe
@@1S1KC0DM4N mine 745d v8 single turbo e65 had 860k km when I sold it was torque monster. Only problem of the car was automatic gearbox which could not handle torque so we rebuild it twice in my ownership (470k km)
And then there’s America. 632 cu in 10.3 liter engines that you can buy from Chevy 😂
with 120hp
@@superchickenlips1 maybe 70 years ago
8.4 Liter V10 in the Vipers.
@@spicysnowman8886 Try 40.
@@superchickenlips1 their 632 crate engine makes 1004 hp/876ft. Ibs torque in the deluxe package, naturally aspirated. There’s a reason the ls swap is one of the most popular swaps.
Cost cutting usually is the number one motivation for car makers.
Mostly true but they are also under the hammer to get their 'fleet wide' (meaning vehicles sold) CO2 emissions down to a specific target. Hence you've seen the likes of Audi drop v8 engines from the S6 (now a V6) and a bunch of other amendments to try to drive down overall corporate CO2 numbers,,,
The perfect engine is a straight six.
Mike: "Birds, the only dinosaurs to survive that extinction."
Crocodiles: "Am I a joke to you?"
I'm amazed by the B420T27 that's in my wife's 2016 Volvo XC90 T6 AWD. It's a turbocharged and supercharged 2.0L L4 that makes upto 316 hp (235 kW) at 5700 rpm and 400 N.m (300 lbf-ft) of torque between 2200-5400 rpm.
For a car that size, to be ONLY powered by a 2L powerplant, that's pretty amazing/incredible.
(The Mercedes M139 which makes 416 HP @ 6750 rpm and 500 N.m (369 lbf.ft) @ 5000-5250 rpm is just ridiculous how much power they've been able to squeeze out of a tiny 2L engine.)
The last bit he said about people bemoaning how clinical engines are now but peoples perception will change is true and has made me think differently. Sadly the age of petrol is about to come to a close, but for now, be glad you can buy a hatchback that would outperform the supercars you grew up knowing you'd never be able to get.
Performance doesn't matter if the thing doesn't have a soul. And especially if it's electronic. Boring in general. For old people basically
@@OutOfNameIdeas2 What is a soul in the car?
age of petrol coming to a close?
are you planning on killing the tens of millions of people who support petrol over electric?
politicians, oil company investors & employees, miners & drillers, big rig drivers, gas stations, average joe, etc. the age of petrol is just getting started
@@nebulasupreme2009 Majority of people support whatever is available. Age of petrol IS coming to a close, there is no other option anymore.
@@Hyrppa95 small scale electric is great, large scale electric is unrealistic… as you said, people support whatever is available and petrol is the only available source. wish it wasn’t so but it is true
This was a highly educational and entertaining episode. I really appreciate the intentionally low-budget effects of super imposing model train set and doggos in the back seat and the low rez Elon Musk gif
More of this please, keep the wonderful cinematography but there is nothing wrong with those campy pictures and effects thrown in - it adds charm and character
Yes! Bring on the guy whose take is refreshingly different and we'll never miss Clarkson's tail slides. The sad thing is, Clarkson USED to be the guy with the refreshingly different ideas.
@@johntechwriter I wouldn’t say Jezza’s days in the spotlight for those things are over, but he doesn’t seem to have the same free form lunacy he had on Top Gear compared to the almost scripted feel of his delivery on The Grand Tour. If DriveTribe gives him carte blamche, we should be fine.
The idea that some students found that 500cc was the optimum while 100 years of combined engine engineering experience failed to discover this is ludicrous. Tell this story to someone else and maybe go check some WW2 airplane engines.
Totally agree
I'd actually love to see a car manufacturer come out with a V4. They sound fantastic and would be a far more interesting alternative to the endless ocean of inline 4s, without compromising in fuel consumption and emissions.
^^^It’s been done, read this article to see all the pros and cons. For me the biggest con is cost and reliability, you have to manufacture two cylinder heads instead of one, 2 head gaskets to fail instead of one etc, etc. I own a v8 and an in-line 4 though so to each there own!
you would probably compromise fuel economy. just like i6 vs v6
3 points.
1 - the comments section here is amazing. Seems like genuine fans of a go fast pedal or throttle, not just a TV show.
2 - The dinosaur segment was incredibly complex and intelligent. But with an ease the my kids also understand.
3 - can't even remember, but I will make an edit later if it pops back in!
2 liter turbo engines are indeed great, enough power, not too heavy.
Also my car from 2010 with a 2 liter turbo works very well, also great at low revs,
and with sofware tuning it has also now 240hp/400nm with original hardware,
and fuel consumption is also not bad (outside the city)
Very compentive with modern 2 liter turbo engines.
If someone...it's Saab who invited the 2l turbo engine for the road car anyway. They where 40 years ahead basically
So you have a golf 6 gti?
@@robertjusic9097 no, a Saab 9-3
the dinosaur/bird/mammal bit was cute, especially considering that the large flightless birds were universally killed off by humans instead of going extinct naturally
Anyone else find the combination of Bruce's voice, and his gentle swaying side to side, really calming?
BMW M54 engine with 2.0 and 2.2L Inline 6. Smooth and indestructable. 🙏
10:26 RIP my ears
In my country cars with 2.0l engines(mainly diesel) are selling like hotcakes because of low fuel consumption and lower yearly tax
Romania?
Really enjoyed this. As a kid in the 90s I used to read car magazines religiously, and took great delight in seeing all the different engine configurations. Now as an adult looking to buy my first new car, everything around me seems to be an inline 4. The little kid inside me is a bit dissappointed, but cars perform so excellently now so it's hard to be too upset.
You have a TON of great 10 year old options. Maybe you should look at a Nissan Z
I have a 2.0l Skoda Octavia Diesel.150hp, plenty enough, About the sweet spot for practicality , efficiency, power and other factors.
V6 3.0, 500cc per cylinder is the 🐐. You're getting a full package.
They’ve been saying stuff about v12s for years. They’re still being made calm down
Not for long Mate, but it’s okay.
When was the last new V12 though
@@aaronm1246 Lambo is still advancing the V12 for the upcoming Aventador Ultimae, the BMW m760i still has a V12. The DB11, Maybach, Rolls even puts it in 4 different models.. How can you even forget the Ferrari 812 V12, the highest hp-delivering N/A V12 ever made? As long as we have people with deep enough pockets to buy these over-taxed powerbeasts they will keep the V12 alive. Long live displacement!
@@Djetsky No, I mean an actually new V12. Like a new engine.
@@aaronm1246 New engines haven't been really developed in years. Most engines are advancements of older engines.
Look at BMW: the n54 was the first 3l twin-turbo I6 back in 2006. The n55 followed up, different turbo-setup but advanced from the n54. The S55 (M3/M4) is advanced from the n55. The B58 is advanced from the N55 and S55.
Engineers don't throw away old working products, they work from what they have and improve. New engines will be made as soon as they find completely new techniques that will greatly outperform the older ones, and can't be applied on the old setup.
The valve tech of the Koenigsegg Gemera 3cyl ICE engine can be classified as a new better technique, but is still to expensive to add on regular road cars.
'The perfect shape for a cylinder' is an odd sentence, since a cylinder IS a shape.
Yes, should be "perfect proportion for a cylinder".
F1: 1.6l, turbo v6, hybrid.
No just joking.
My car is also a 2.0l 4 cylinder Bi-Turbo diesel.
And even my 2-cylinder motorbike (Xb12) uses an 88,9mm bore.
Thanks for this refreshing video. It sure makes things clear now.
Let me guess Bi-TDi?
@@o_o-_-8639 It might also be opel's biturbo diesel. Who knows.
@@o_o-_-8639 No, it's a dinosaur. See profile picture.
@@henriwolbrink oh lol now I see XD
never forget it was saab that originally brought turbocharging to cars and the legacy they left which rules to this modern day
The smoothness of the V12 and even the V8s are just something really satisfying
I often wonder about the lifespan of these super tuned 2.0 litre engines!
I would take a stock V8 over one of those high tuned 2 litre engines
Well. Look at the current F1 turbo engines. Failure is far less common than 10 years ago. More complicated, and more reliable. Engineering...
@@asphalthedgehog6580 It sledom turns out that way in the long run. Or you're going to get one massive bill later. They would have been even better less complicated.
@@martinsv9183 you see that wrongly. These engines will last 100kmiles. Throw it away, replace it with a new one
@@asphalthedgehog6580 not exactly the same when all F1 engines are rebuilt after every race 🤣
2.0l 4 cyl engines are very common, but so are little 1-1.5l 3 cylinders.
Well 1.5L is still 500cc/cyl. You kind of don't want to go to less than 3 cylinders because the engine balance, power delivery (smoothness) and sound will be absolutely horrible, so just building a smaller 3cyl is the best compromise
@@laurean5998 500cc per cylinder seems to be ideal when you want decent performance but also longevity and reliability.
What have the world come to. This is just saddening
@@laurean5998 fiat chiming in, 0.9 2 cyl... Ok, it is only in the panda, 500, punto and ypsilon.
The japanese knows that a 659cc inline 3 is much better than 1000cc
so just take 2 of them, build a „V“ and you get the better engine. 👍
Not really, only more complex and expensive. Nobody needs that much power in a road car.
@@nielsdebakker3283 can never have enough swept volume or power, makes the car nicer to drive thanks to low down torque, which highly strung 2l 4pot dont have.
@@nielsdebakker3283 Need is not the point.
You CAN sometimes get 1000hp out of an inline 4. For like, 5 miles before it blows up.
Love the analogy at the end of the video, the dinosaurs will only have a decade or so and I can't imagine manufacturers spending resources further developing these engines when they will hit the scrap heap so soon. This will be the peak evolution of these engines before extinction.
These cars will just be passed down to poor countries. I still drive 1985 mk2 golf along with almost 10% of my country population driving mk2's.
Best engine Landrover made. TD5, 2.5 litre, 5 cylinder.... also 500cc/cylinder.
300 Tdi was a vastly better design.
I feel the vw 1.4l is an excellent exemption from the 500cc idea. I have the 17 GTI and the 2.0l is fun but I had a 17 jetta with a 1.4l and it was plenty fast with 170tq
The 2.0 GTI engine blows the doors off of the 1.4T because the 1.4T is designed for purely efficiency and not necessarily performance
@@carterdavis5176 im just saying. not a deal breaker
Very informative! So how does this impact the quality and reliability of modern engines compared to older engines, if at all?
The most unreliable things on modern engines are emissions control devices. I would avoid buying modern diesels for this reason. Petrols are going the same way.
@Pyro-Lyro what manufacturer still uses timing chains?
@@TheBurnout96 Many of them. Some that used to use only belts, have switched to chains. Subaru and Honda are great examples of that.
Reliability depends on quality and availability.
@@TheBurnout96 timing chains are superior in every aspect
Honestly one of the best edited videos I’ve ever seen. Information wise eh, could be a bit better. More devoted to a single point and fully describing it would be better.
I have a 2.4-liter engine in 2015 Dodge Dart SXT 6 speed auto overdrive got over 230,000 miles with OW-20 oil and well maintained
The fact that the tsi is tunable to 388hp with just a stage 2 is also insane
2.0L comes from taxes. There is no magic in it.
@Capt Shiny Multinational companies do nor recognise UK as a separate entity. Everyone applies to the same rules.
Not even speaking of the elusive "German students". Well, the Queen being German is probably the only connection to that.
Would have been nice to not have my ears blown out by that awful PEAK TORQUE bit. But yes, same reason the Audi/VW 07K engine is a 2498cc inline 5, using much of the same components as the beastly EA888 inline 4 setup
haha agreed that the peak torque kinda caught me off guard, thankfully wasn't wearing headphones, so was more funny than painful...
Nothing sounds better than a high winding American V8. The exception being a high winding Italian V12. Oh well I guess we all will be going to electric cars sooner or later, but I’m glad I’m too old to see this happen totally.
Volume to surface ratio is a very satisfying explanation.
Cool video, always informative. One thing I wonder about these 2.0T engines though: Durability? They are pretty high strung, long term I doubt they can last as long as a normally aspirated engine. Time will tell but I have a feeling they won't.
They definitely don't. Having to change worn out turbos at 75k miles is very common. No need to wait for time, this is already known.
Should be duel progressive turbos and supercharged 1- 1.5L you just need compression. It's the replacement for disacement 😉
Make 600hp from 1.5L engine 💀
@@GF-mf7ml BMW made 1500hp from 1.5L
@@thebaconsonful sooo reliable XD
Not reliable. Manufacturers have to warranty these engines
and then you hear an Alfa Romeo 8C drive by....
I never would have thought that I would love 4.cyc. but I do now. First one 6 years ago, Mercedes metris van...2 liter and I can tow 5000 pounds. I'm at 95,000 miles and zero cost.
Bought my wife a X3 with 2 liter, its amazing. I just bought a BMW 430i, I had chipped, 300hp lots of fun and I get 35 mpg on the interstate. Love the 2 liters now!
Loved the dinosaur extinction analogy. Very nice!
I would take a larger 6 or 8 cylinder normally aspirated engine over a 2 litre turbo any day of the week. Smoother, more reliable as less to go wrong and in the real world not much difference in fuel consumption.
Agreed. I purchased a 2018 Murano even with small fears over the CVT specifically because it uses a 3.5L V6. I've known a couple friends and coworkers who have had turbo issues (mostly GM products to be fair). Still get 26-28 MPG on the highway with enough power to make merging easy and safe.
can confirm 500ml per cylinder. mine has a 3 liter v6.
cries in 3 cylinder 1 liter
Well if it’s the 3 cyl N/A from Toyota with 68/72 hp you actually have a small racing engine XD
3 cylinder 659cc is japans favourite econemy engine
@@clarksonoceallachain8536 yh 84/89 hp 3 cyl turbo,awd,cvt(we might better forget this one but anyway) it’s actually fun!
‘Optimising’ for various parameters is a standard engineering task)Use of ‘Design of Experiments’ …use of Calculus… etc)
This channel is making general population smarter one video at a time.
I drive a modern 2ltr twin turbo Jaguar
This gives me the best of most worlds
It’s lighter than a V6 by some 58kg
It’s more frugal than a V6 or V8
It’s more agile being lighter
It’s power output per litre is greater
It’s a revvy engine , max power comes in at 1500rpm.
The only thing that’s not in its favour against the V6 and V8 is the engine notes. But overall it’s a peach
To people who say that EVs are clean vehicles, just wait until you see their minerals origins.
1L in-line 3 cylinder turbo petrol
are the most popular entry level turbo options we have at least in asia market i guess…🤔
thats agreeable due to price of petrol. 1l engine fuel efficiency go easy on most of normal people.and turbo became the answer of lack of power of those engine. with 3 pistons.size of engine became smaller and those space can be used for turbo. majority of people live in city just want power of torque to go from traffic light to another traffic light,and most of them hardly go more than 70mph ,so that its enough for them to have fun with cheap.its maybe a low horse but its a fun one for sure
10:22
When he said "peak torque"
I felt that...
This cupra is gorgeous. I didn’t know about this car. We should get this in the states!!
what about all the 3 cylinder 1.0L turbos being used? should these then not be 2 cylinders then?
Things got dark and dismal at the end, predictions of fast golf carts taking over. I'm 75, I won't (probably) have to live in a world of all EVs, until that time I have my '16 Mazda MX-5, a two liter in-line four mated to a six speed manual transmission. You can have your dismal brave new world.
If you really think about it:
- Cubic Centimetre…magic word = cubic (1:1)
- oil is often stored in cubic-like storage (1:1)
- natural gas is often stored in round cubic-like storage (1:1)
- buckets are almost cubic-like shaped (1:1)
"Almost every modern engine is 500cc per cylinder"
Chey: "smallest v8 we got is 4.8 they go all the way to 10.3 liters"
I guarantee that turbo engine does not respond instantly, a bigger NA engine will always be more responsive regardless of what rpm peak torque occurs
Exactly. I had a chance to test out a lot of cars and turbo lag is present in every turbo car. Most noticeable thing in turbo manual cars to me was the short torque dip on every gear change.
@@BlitzkriegRap i think my entire enjoyment of the driving experience is tied to it's response to my inputs, it's the connection, and both turbos and autos take away from that. Moderns cars are almost all incredibly boring, even if they're fast it feels like someone else is driving and I don't like the bus.
moa's weren't wiped out by a cataclysm, maoris ate them all. they almost ate all the moriori's as well
Im so glad Im of an age where I will dead before the last of the V10, V8 & V6 production cars are no longer available to purchased used and gladly I will die with a soul who's ears still tingle with the roar of my V8 at full chat.
Electric cars are so soulless it hurts me to think that my great grandchildren will never know the pleasure of driving an internal combustion engine vehicle.
I'm really digging these pieces.
Lol great Cretaceous period analogy