@@dr4c077 Valid point there is no need to kill if there is another way, but when push comes to shove some choices have to be made and there maybe no way to avoid it.
What about "Gravity Falls"? The final battle of Weirdmageddon was a fight to the death from the first blow. There was no agonizing debate over the morality of killing Bill. He was just too dangerous for that. Redemption or confinement weren't even on the table. Bill Cipher had to be destroyed and they sacrificed Stan's mind in order to destroy him. Bill even died onscreen. Now the show gave us hints that Bill survived and escaped but the characters don't know that. As far as they know Bill is dead and they're perfectly fine with that.
"There was no agonizing debate over the morality of killing Bill. " This is why it is not an exception, otherwise Avatar would be just as valid for showing fighting scenes as a whole. GF also plays it safe though, one thing I mentioned is that as a general rule the 'no killing' only applies to A) humans or B) someone of the same species to the main character. Like most any show has no problem with you killing off non human characters which is why so many action cartoons from before featured aliens and robots and the like as villains.
But Bill wasn't a human, and was never humanized by the show. There was nothing to subvert there, because like you said, fighting Bill to the death was never a source of inner conflict for the protagonists.
@@Arrakiz666 "But Bill wasn't a human, and was never humanized by the show." Bill was very humanized in the show. He was sapient, intelligent, witty, sarcastic and completely insane. His initial interactions with the characters were friendly if cryptic. Bill didn't show his true colors until Ford showed up and we learned his backstory and his ultimate goal. And when did this idea that it's okay to kill anything that doesn't look human take hold? This doesn't bode well for humanity's First Contact with an alien species. We've seen plenty of TV shows where people of different sapient species interact. "Amphibia" has Anne living in a world of talking amphibians, some of which are hostile. Is she free to go on a killing spree and gorge herself on frog's legs? Luz Noceda is living in a world populated by witches and sapient demons. Is she free to practice her fire spells on random passersby so long as they don't look human? The only animated character I've seen echo this belief is Rick Sanchez who slaughters entire worlds. He's hardly a role model. And is it okay for non-human sapient species to randomly kill humans for not being whatever species they are? So much for diversity.
@@kylepope7850 "Anthropomorphized" is not the same thing is as "humanized". To humanize a character is to show the story from their perspective and make the audience empathize with that character. Bill Cypher was never an ambiguous character, he was THE bag guy from day one, and everyone knew he was the bad guy, at no point did the show try to make it seem like he has a valid point of view and his motivations weren't dwelt upon beyond "he's literally an eldritch being of chaos". "And when did this idea that it's okay to kill anything that doesn't look human take hold?" Whenever we started telling each other stories? Empathizing with and othering subjects is the keystone of the human ability to build social groups, this is nothing unusual. Notice that for a human to even begin empathizing with any sapient creature, we give them traits that we understand to be human. The ability to speak human language, to have human emotions, etc. In essence, in order to empathize with any sapient being, we need to think of them as humans first, because evolutionary, we're hardwired to cooperate with other humans. Now because we're pattern-seeking animals, we're very good at extending that perception of what could count as "human" well beyond natural boundaries (this is why humans can take care of animals and look for uniquely human features, like big eyes, smiles, etc. in animals), but at its core, we're "blanketing" non-human entities with our own traits. About the only way to NOT otherize a non-human alien species that we couldn't put human characteristics on, would be to politely leave them alone. That is an unfortunate reality of human consciousness. I mean, I feel for you, but I'm afraid this isn't something you can just avoid.
You know what? That’s actually a really good point, I hadn’t thought about that. I really hope you don’t get to much backlash on vet this. A LOT of people are going to take this as “Avatar is bad, watch Kipo” and are probably going to throw a fit....
Yeah, I knew that was a risk going in, and even in the last video where I say I think SU is a better show, particularly personally cuz its my favorite, people still interpreted it as 'kipo is better than SU' and attacked me for it. It's just about the nuance of this particular character arc.
I really liked how you broke this down! I like understanding how childrens shows try to tackle incredible heavy topics because it is important for children to understand that life isn't black and white, good guy bad guy etc. Every villian thinks they're right in their own regard, and the way that Kipo handled her conflict i think is very telling of the world we live in. Wonderful video!
Glad you liked it! I was very happy that this show tackled this issue in a way that was still nuanced without having to get extremely gritty, it was a great balance.
Dr.amilia is like Horde prime. They Two are the secret big bad of the series,are responsible for the existence of the former main villain of the show (hordak and scarlamagne) and belive in what they doing
I am a big Avatar fan... but I am also able to point out the flaws of the story. Steven Universe, The Legend of Korra, and Kipo are able to show you the reasons for why a villain does what they do. They show you backstories about their path to darkness... and that’s relevant even with known cult leaders and serial killers in our world. They went through things that leads them down a path of darkness and leads to them being villains. Ozai and Azula’s handling in the series is what people never talk about. Ozai was so one dimensional. Azula never had a proper close off and even in the comics she always runs off and never takes accountability or even gets the help she needs. I would’ve loved if the comics dealt more with Aang having his own inner problems with taking away Ozai’s bending... like what would that have done to him, would he go crazy or be lead down a path of mental unrest like Korra... I’ll even add She-Ra as an example of making such a complex character like Catra turn around full circle over the betrayal of the only person she cared about leaving her.
Azula got some arc in the comics however I personally didn't like the way it was made in the last issue she apeared in. I honestly don't think Ozai is as bad as people say, why is that? Well, he has amazing interactions with Zuko and he served his purpose with Aang. "Oh but he is just a world domination dude", but ironically it fits as a negative destructice characteristic of fire, just like Aang and Zaheer's arc has something to do with the nature of wind, so I can really see some charm in this aspect of Ozai as a villain, maybe the only thing he needed was more of a backstory to show how he came to be but that's all.
Actually Steven Universe never gives us a “reason” they just do it cause they want to not because they have to. No actual backstory, motivation or relatability is giving to the actual villains and in the end we only hit surface-level stuff.
well the thing is not all villains have to be built super complex or have justifications, while its good, its usually better if the villain is just the antithesis of the protagonist. some people are just evil because. There isn't always a sad story behind someones bad personality it can just be because thats who they are. take Yoshikage kira from Jojo for example. he's not really got a true sob story for why he chooses to murder women and have relationships with their severed hands other than he was just a mentally unwell individual who just accepted his messed up fetish as a positive. even in our world not every bad person be it a killer or corrupt ruler has a tragic past. they are evil purely because they lust for things like power and military strength or because they love to indulge themselves in taboo activities. Ozai is a product of his culture and represents everything the group is trying to destroy, he doesn't need depth beyond what he represents which is a power hungry empire that will not stop consuming everything it can and its symbolised by him becoming phoenix king. He also serves as an antithesis to the values the show tries to impart on the viewer such as family, peace, love, acceptance, doing whats right. he is the exact opposite of all those things which the show has tried to tell us are good things. I think the like of justifiable villains with reasons is more to do with us as humans wanting to see the good in people to understand them but "one dimensional" evil villains also teach us some people are just bad for no reason or than because they are.
I'd disagree, yes Ozai could have been handled better given his reasoning, although his purpose for his roll as an over arching villain was to represent the arocieties and beliefs that the fire nation leadership had accumulated and adapted to since Fire Lord Sozin, who ironically actually comes across as a better villain. Azula character however, is almost a perfect villain and probably one of, if not the best in western animation. We are given her development behind her reason and even insight into her sociopathic tendency that were developing even in her childhood. The sad truth about her character, is she did have closure just not one many cartoon fans are used to when addressing villains of such a young age. Azula's goal in life had come crashing down around her, and the very war her life had be purposely built for as well as her title as a future leader were stripped, this high level of emotion, accompanied with her sociopath behavior, caused her to have a complete mental break down, and one that even in the comic she doesn't recover from. She is not suppose to ave closure the same way Zuko does, because she is not meant to be redeem, her story arc ends with her inability to except the truths of her reality and the lack of control she has over it. And from a story writing perspective this is brilliant, for it introduces concept of the real world. Not everybody gets a happy, or even hopeful ending in life. Sometimes people have reaped what they sow, and have no closure to it, or in this case break down when presented with their consequences. Azula lived a truly awful and manipulative life, and while not entirely her fault, given her parents neglect or encouragement of her psychotic behavior, her taking accountability would be entirely out of character given the fact she's never once did that outside of manipulative gain in her life.
Azula was handled perfectly. They wrote a realistic psychopath (within the confines of the show) and made her the perfect villian. Yes, she was one dimensional, but technically speaking so are real life Psychopaths.
She also has the moral compass of a brick. If she isn't directly killing someone that hasn't directly hurt her/try to hurt her, then she doesn't really care. The flects were trying to hurt her so she hurt them.
Kipo is kinda unique. One of the protagonists wears her step mother's(?) pelt as a cloak. Kipo herself is a genetic experiment of her parents. Intentional experiment, which went right and granted her superpowers. Kipo's romantic interest is gay and shuts her down in like 2 min scene. In which we first learn that he is gay, and they simply stay friends.
Thanks! I think most people who are upset just think I was making ap point about which show is better, and I'm not. As of now I'd say Avatar is better, this is just about how kipo was able to do something avatar couldn't.
Avatar fans tend to get really defensive over the show even when people aren't critiquing it just when people aren't saying the show did literally everything. The circlejerk around the show especially lately doesn't help this. And I'm saying this despite avatar being my favorite show.
There is a time and place for death. In that regardless of your morals there will always come a point where “you” will be forced to action. Where you will have to fight against those in opposition to you because the consequences of letting them carry on will be dire. Kupo though she did go against her own morals has yet to do a final act. An act that she can’t take back and will regret for the rest of her life. The final act as far as I know in recent history has not been shown in children’s television. Killing someone is just one type of final act, the burning of bridges, making a necessary but regretful decision to cut someone from your life is another
Kipo's final act was going full megamute without an anchor. It wasn't a leap of faith where she trusted her friends to rescue her; she made a conscientious decision to save the citizens, fully believing that she would never make it back. We could predict that she makes it back, obviously, but at the same time we can also predict when a character that was killed comes back to life (in some settings). Not saying it's a perfect example of a final act, but the narrative certainly presented it as one.
If I'm not mistaken I mention in this (or the first video) that this is only a thing in western animation. Keep in mind that SU literally refused to do this when the network asked them to have SU kill off spinel.
@@UmTois Not on hand, but if you google around there is an interview where Rebecca Sugar says that the network asked her to have steven destroy spinel entirely to rid the universe of her evil.
Aangs decision not to kill Ozai is actually more important then most people realize not only does it go against his personal valvues but the values of his people on a whole as the last airbender if he abandons an aspect of his culture then that part of his culture dies because their are no more airbenders who practise it. Also the Ozais world view was that because the airbenders where destroyed because they where quote unquote too peaceful then they where weak so if Aang abandoned that part of his culture in order to win then it would be saying Ozai your right my people where to weak essentially proving Ozais world view and inviting others to follow that world view. Kinda like how shooting a murder just makes another murderer.
I know it was in the weak season, but Korra definitely killed Unalaq and explicitly acknowledges this when apologizing to Eska and Desna. Also if the standard isn't that the protagonist needs to actually kill, since Kipo doesn't kill Scarlamagne, Steven Universe also already did this with Jasper. Jasper couldn't be negotiated with or convinced, she needed to be confronted physically to stop her from causing harm. There was no reconciliation, and in SUF her neutrality to Steven and the gems wasn't because she had been reasoned with but because her motivation disappeared.
I know I'm super late but in season 3 of Korra mako literally just used lightning on the water bender who was apart of the red lotus (forget her name) and kills her
I mean it's not like there was any reason to, it was perfectly possible to defeat his army, he was not a one-monkey-army (despite having some OP power)
I seem to remember Voltron Force having both main humanoid villains getting stepped on. More importantly, Aang left Ozai crippled and borderline invalid. Don't see how that doesn't count as seriously harming him.
Like I said, Aang has no problem getting into serious fights throughout the whole series. His issue is whether or not its okay to kill and in the end he finds a way to beat him without killing him.
Deepcut yeah, but Aang isn’t handed energy bending just so he doesn’t have to do something he doesn’t want to do. It’s because after a literal century of war, the cycle of violence has to end somewhere. As the Avatar, whose job it is to restore balance and peace, it makes sense that it would stop with him. Also, energy bending Ozai almost kills Aang in the process, the Lion Turtle warns that it’s going to be a battle of wills and whose spirit is stronger will decide the victor, that Aang risked getting corrupted or even killed by this process if he loses, and it almost happens. The two shows are really on such completely different thematic tracks that I don’t see the point in comparing them unless the intent is to bash one and praise the other for those themes.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
It's not about what shown is better or not. If a cartoon tackles something Avatar hasn't it ain't bad, it's progressive. KIPO did what others haven't done and that's good it opens more doors. Avatar is a masterpiece but it doesn't mean it has a lot of things written down maybe if the show continue it could and no I don't mean Korra.
@@deepcut7788 in art there really isn't objectivity to an extent. Just establishing your values in film and determining whether a piece of media meets the criteria of your values based on the events in a piece of media and your interpretation/opinion of those events and whether they meet YOUR values. And in this case atla perfectly met the values you had in film.
I think Kipo did far better w/ developing "the main villain", than Avatar did. Even though Firelord Ozai was vastly more powerful, Scarlemagne is w/o a doubt, the far more compelling villain. However, the only reason Avatar's resolution is questionable is because of the deus ex machina used. "Energy bending" should've been foreshowed, and executed better. The ending of Avatar seemed a bit rushed & that they "painted themselves into a corner" w/ Aang's moral quandary & couldn't reasonably resolve it.
He had also moments before tried to kill her so I think it probably counts as justified self-defense in that case. Besides I don't think she had felt the full weight of that yet due to the euphoria of finally making it off the train, if we get to see how she's holding up months or years later though...
HenshinFanatic oh no don’t worry, that was definitely justified. But yeah I wonder how she’s holding up. Good thing Jesse and Nate are there for her tho:)
But what about the Steven Universe: Future episode "Bluebird"? Also, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic showrunner Meghan McCarthy stated once about the villains on her show, "I don't think I'd want to reform all of our villains. I don't think that would be realistic. No matter how hard you try, some people (or evil alicorns) just aren't going to change their ways."; this is especially seen with Queen Chrysalis of the changelings.
I was going to bring up the point of Infinity Train having Lake kill one of the Flex and the other being killed by Alan Dracula but that's not what your point was about. Your point was about moral conflicts and going against them so I agree X3
Didn't Ben Tennyson killed DNAliens in Alien Force or dozens of people in Destroy all aliens movie. Or When Kevin Killed Ragnarok in Vendetta episode same episode in which Ragnarok killed his father.
Ben also killed Malware and Maltruant in Omniverse, in Ultimate Alien he would have killed Aggrogor and Ultimate Kevin if Gwen hadn't stopped him and he will kill Vilgax in the future. Ben has never shied from using lethal force we necessary.
Ba Hes Yeah, he is just crazy and you understand his point. He wants revenge on humans for keeping them in zoos and how he was forced to make pheromones for Amelia. He has a dark past. One of my favorite overall villains behind Shen.
Yeah I agree. I love avatar but the 'you can now take away bending was dumb.' Aang was just giving plot armor so they wouldn't have to kill someone on screen. The ending of atla didn't teach kid me anything because he was just given a really convenient power. If anything, it just told me that I would have had to kill ozai cause I'm not the avatar. Kipo, on the other hand, went out of her way to save the villan, care about them, and overall teaches the principles of kindness. If I was a kid and watched kipo, I would have learned some important morals of not killing everyone who was an enemy, but instead lean to empathize with them. I love atla but I have to give you a sub for this video.
I mean, there were other things to learn from the show other than how to deal with a evil murderous ruler. But yes. Plot armor. I think it would have been better if Aang discovered a way to get that ability instead of it just being given to him for accidentally finding the turtle.
Wait, isn't the whole point of Avatar ending to not giving up finding alternatives instead of running away or straight up breaking your principles? I mean, sure, the lion turtle was convenient, but that is a structural writing issue more than a wrong moral. Also, it's the equivalent of Aang knocking Ozai out and chaining him in a similar manner as Azula while Zuko becomes the next firelord. I love Avatar but that's a third option that could have been brought up too. Also, I don't know what's up with people expectations. If anything, I feel tired of people bashing positive morals as straight up bad storytelling while saying the more cynical ones are always best. Fullmetal Brotherhood is a great example of a good moral integrity journey that is often criticised by "oh it's not bittersweet or negative ending so it's cliche, childish and bad" in the most superficial interpretation of a mature story possible. I personally believe there are idealism messages and relatable messages, one of them is for us to strive for better things even if they don't seem likely, to get inspired, to be better than you are and not be so eager to give up; the other one is for us to relate in our failures, to know that there are ways to get over our mistakes and know how to deal with them. As a digital artist, I can say the "idealism messages" do help me lot to keep going with this job, but relatable messages also help e when I'm at my worst, that's how it works.
if you'd analyze it a bit more-- you'd see that the avatar has always had the ability to take away peoples bending, as do the lion turtles. aang just didn't know this! and when he was touched by the lion turtle he was filled with wisdom. the ending of avatar was perfect because aang ended a 100 year long war with non violence. azulas end was crumbling inward, and no wound can inflict that.
no, it wasn't a plot armor at all, watch the series again, the very culmination of bending is the spiritual energy and the Avatar, the balance force between the mortal plane and the spirit plane of course can understand it, he was gven nothing but knowledge yes t teached a damn lot about morality when Aang was talking with his past lives
I love Kipo so so much and it's one of the best netflix cartoons, but Avatar is a league of its own when it comes to animation and character storytelling.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
I really like the way you put this! That it's not a matter of fighting and killing in itself, but the protagonist having to go against their own morality in order to do the right thing, which is definitely a very deep thing and important lesson to know.
That would be pretty cool if it happened, though I imagine Emilia will end up doing that thing where the villain accidentally sets themselves up to die.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
Deepcut They weren’t saying one show was better than the other, they were talking about the possible backlash from comparing Avatar and Kipo in the vid
@@Modern_Herald It was no critique on the show, I really like it. I am convinced that you should give children a bit more credit than to say that you have to protect them from everything evil in the world.
@@deepcut7788 if you don't mind me asking why did you make this video (and the previous one) knowing very well that some people may read it the wrong way and attack you
@@meliodasowl9972 cuz if I didn't make videos anytime someone would read it wrong than I'd not have a job. Pretty much every single video we post has people who comment without watching.
Voltron Legendary Defender showed the characters kill tons of people. They make it very clear that living beings are in all those ships they blow up and Keith straight up stabs two guys
I will say it again, I'm pretty sure Kipo wouldn't have done it. Even if she would destroy the ship, when she would see how the people would slowly die she would deeply regret this decision and would propably do everything to save them. Wolf didn't killed her mother. She killed a woman (wolf mutant) who pretend to be her mother and who never truly saw her as a daughter. Also if you think about it, there was NO other choice for Wolf except fpr killing the Alpha Wolf ! Remember when she saw the huge dogs? She immediately asked her (ex) wolf sister who the Alpha was.
I agree with you about Kipo, but on a slightly different subject, what are your thoughts on Dead End Paranormal Park? I feel like it's so unique and crazy with breaking the usual cartoon mold, but I'd love to hear your thoughts
Idk man, if people were trying to kill me for being the most powerful I wouldn't want to just "kindly talk to them" and actually go for "fighting literally anyone that crossed passed with"... but this is a contradicting statement to your first video. Anyone that posed a threat to Aang's group was a reason to be on the defensive, but not everyone he encountered was met with violence until proven otherwise... but this is another contradiction to your first video too. Still a very wrong way to prove a point, especially towards a very beloved cartoon. Please stop trying to downplay Avatar (only centering around his ultimate confrontation) and making it seem like Kipo is the first show to "challenge morals" (talking about world building, Kipo's relationships with others, her morals and conflicts throughout the series) until trying to acknowledge Avatar at the very end of the video, that's not how you do comparisons or prove your point fairly .
Okay, but, as Cory Doctorow put it: "Stories about how we can't afford to stick to our principles in times of crisis are a handy addition to any authoritarian's playbook." The problem isn't that cartoons don't "acknowledge" that you "have to" kill the bad guy to save the good people. The problem is that the world does not divide neatly into Bad People who must be killed and Good People who must kill them. Heck, cartoons are better at acknowledging that than fiction ostensibly for grownups, just look at all the crime procedurals where loose-cannon cowboy cops are tracking a dangerous serial killer and anyone who talks about due process and civil rights is evil and endangering the innocent people. Kipo is a way better show than you're giving it credit for. It portrays Scarlemagne as a tragic figure, not as just a Bad Guy who must be fought so that Kipo can learn a moral lesson about how punching people different from you really will solve all your problems forever (heck, you can see how they're setting it up for Kipo and Scarlemagne to team up against Emilia in season three).
I put this show on for my Niece not ever watching the show before hand and I was soooooooooo surprised that I couldn’t stop watching, in the trailer it was the music that hooked me, one of the best things about this show
I think your argument is quite weak. First, how can you say Aang was unchalleged? All of the final episodes we are shown how he is struggling with the question wether he should kill Ozai or not, he talks with his past lives, he has ongoing paralel plans to stop the fire nation (white lotus and team Avatar sabotage of ballons), then when he fails to convice Ozai, they fight, yet in the end Aang wasn't capable of killing his enemy. That's Familiar, because that's EXACTLY what happens in Kipo too: she tried to argue, didn't work, showed her failsafe plan and fought back, yet in the end she wasn't able to kill and locked the villain. the only difference is that Aang took Ozai's bending with means that could have been better set up before, but that's is the Avatar world equivalent of putting someone to jail: you confiscate their weapons. I think the point the video is trying to make is more exagerated than what it actually is. "It was clear in that episode that though the means of her arc she would kill if it was necessary" It wasn't. She wanted to stop him, it was never implied she would kill him and when she had the oportunity she saved him. Proof? Well, when Kipo made the giant monkey had the oportunity to kill Scarlamagne she just hit him with one finger; we never see Kipo killing even in full Jaguar form; we don't see characters even discussing about "killing" and this is not the type of cartoon that show deaths (except for the golden statues), even the cartoons you used as example had these themes more often than Kipo. While I'm at it, death is overrated anyways. There are plenty of shows that are meaningless gory yet are badly written, and there are shows that are light hearted but are well executed at their proposal.
UmTois the lion turtle also specifically told Aang that he must never allow his heart to succumb to the poison of hatred and allow his mind to see through the illusions of reality.
With “Superhumans’” upcoming conclusion, it’s a fight to the death. Our heroine, Sarah Steele, fully understands that if she wants to stop the main villain, Lord Galaxian, from being a threat anymore, she must kill him. He’s just too dangerous to be kept alive, as if you imprison or exile him, he’ll eventually escape, and he is beyond reason or redemption. And Galaxian is just too determined to fulfill his goal of ruling the universe to be talked down or forced to surrender. Sarah knows that if she is to stop him, she must go against her usual moral code and kill him.
What he says is true in Steven Universe Future I'm pretty sure that when he meets connie's friend a he said it be easier to befriend them if they were enemies first.
Star Wars The Clone Wars would beg to differ. The heroes: Anakin,Ahsoka,Obiwan, the clones had plenty of dilemmas where they ultimately had to resort to killing
A more apt comparison is Jujustu Kaisen, not a kids cartoon, but it does follow this deconstruction. Itadori has had to kill, both as a mercy, and as a necessary evil. While it's not against shonen anime tradition for heroes to kill, it is a core component of Itadori's moral philosophy; to attempt reason before ending a life. Though there's also a lot of ambiguity over what counts as killing, since there is a distinction drawn between human and curse that is blurred as the series goes on.
I am getting pretty burnt out with the whole over simplified, love and acceptance conquers all rhetoric in children's and young adult's content. Not everything has to be spoon fed to us or covered in sunshine rainbows. I still love these shows, but it's starting to all blend together. I think Steven Universe and the many shows that followed, have shown that kids are capable of thinking about more serious or confusing topics. Not everyone has to understand everything right away. How many times have you re-watched/read a thing, and gained an entirely new understanding of the material? We don't and shouldn't have the same thoughts or feelings our whole lives. Besides, what else are these cartoon communities for if not for discussion? I think I want shows to risk having characters deal with permanent consequences for their actions and not having everyone understand the deeper meanings in stories right away.
I feel ya, that is why Kipo ws so refreshing with its themes, even if they presented them in a largely innocent way. I think with Steven Universe the important thing to remember was that while they were crazy evil dictators, the intention of the story was to be a parallel to family and more small 'modern' problems in relationships as opposed to things like genocide and such.
I believe both these shows have done so so much for the genre of cartoons atla brought in the idea of hey kids aren’t all dumbasses and emotion into the genre and kipo has done things as well these shows go down in my tops for western animation
Someone did by saying that he thought about killing Kevin, but from what he said he is like Aang in the Avatar, he considered killing Kevin but ultimately found a way not to.
Well ben did do something similar in Ultimate Alien, in an episode, the Forever Knights were going around killing aliens on earth including one of Ben's friends Pierce, Ben did eventually stopped them, but once Ben defeated the leader of the knights (i think his name was Driscoll) Ben made it very clear that he if he ever continued killing inocent aliens Ben whouldnt hesitate to kill him, its not really exactly the same but Ben did made it clear that although he can give people second chances he was also willing to kill if someone crosses the line
Actually wasn’t Aang taking away Ozai’s bending exactly the same as Mulholland neutralizing Scarlemagne’s mind control?? Only Kipo was spared the need to fight when Aang did the hard work to find a way to maintain his morals. Both characters fought all the time but the shows I suppose being for kids allowed the fights to never need to maim or kill opponents. Pretty similar IMO. Kipo was just more overtly all about pacifism although Aang was a total pacifist too.
This isn’t a cartoon but a kids show that talks about serious issues without dumbing them down for kids too much is Sesame Street, this might sound strange but actually watching the show they really don’t hold back with dark themes, in one episode they literally killed off elmos uncle just to have. Story about losing a loved one
The entire show's theme is how tribalism and social constructs we divide ourselves across doesn't have to exist and it's possible to coexist. The mutes are alagories for different human races/nationalities and so on. Irl races aren't biologically much different, but the show makes a point of how, even if we were different sentient spieces, it doesn't change the fact that we can coexist and work together peacefully. Because environment, society and culture trumps biology.
Huh? The previous Avatars didn't kill anyone. Whoa; am I missing something? I'll have to rewatch that episode, but I'm pretty sure when Ang was asking the previous avatars if he should kill the Fire Lord, they said that they DIDN'T kill someone and it ended up costing loved ones because they didn't do it. Am I wrong? Because I'm almost 100% sure thats what transpired.
Why target Avatar tho??? Like you said it’s like that for all other shows. Unless the comments brought up avatar. Still the title is a bit ridiculous...
I like Kipo just fine but I like Avatar more and actively rewatch Avatar, Idon’t do that with Kipo. So I don’t agree with you and think you’re wrong but you’re entitled to your opinion.
David Nwaokolo I did, I should’ve worded what I meant better sorry about that. What I meant was that I can see the points he’s making about Kipo and how it did a certain thing better than Avatar. But I simply disagree and think Avatar just did a better job at it.
Just because you prefer one piece of media over another, does not mean the one you prefer is objectively better. And also, just because one piece of media did one thing better than another, does not make it objectively better.
Cartoon universe: "heros cant kill."
Everyone: "shut up hypocrite!"
Me: "wait-no he has a point."
Every good guy kill purposefully or accidentally
No he doesn't
Why do good guys need to kill, there is no logic in sacrifcing a person for others
@@dr4c077 Valid point there is no need to kill if there is another way, but when push comes to shove some choices have to be made and there maybe no way to avoid it.
QUANTUM! Sanz if you have the chance to kill, then you probably have the chance to neutralize in a non-lethal way
What about "Gravity Falls"? The final battle of Weirdmageddon was a fight to the death from the first blow. There was no agonizing debate over the morality of killing Bill. He was just too dangerous for that. Redemption or confinement weren't even on the table. Bill Cipher had to be destroyed and they sacrificed Stan's mind in order to destroy him. Bill even died onscreen. Now the show gave us hints that Bill survived and escaped but the characters don't know that. As far as they know Bill is dead and they're perfectly fine with that.
"There was no agonizing debate over the morality of killing Bill. "
This is why it is not an exception, otherwise Avatar would be just as valid for showing fighting scenes as a whole. GF also plays it safe though, one thing I mentioned is that as a general rule the 'no killing' only applies to A) humans or B) someone of the same species to the main character. Like most any show has no problem with you killing off non human characters which is why so many action cartoons from before featured aliens and robots and the like as villains.
But Bill wasn't a human, and was never humanized by the show. There was nothing to subvert there, because like you said, fighting Bill to the death was never a source of inner conflict for the protagonists.
the idea of morality was never brought up, so no, not the same thing
@@Arrakiz666
"But Bill wasn't a human, and was never humanized by the show."
Bill was very humanized in the show. He was sapient, intelligent, witty, sarcastic and completely insane. His initial interactions with the characters were friendly if cryptic. Bill didn't show his true colors until Ford showed up and we learned his backstory and his ultimate goal.
And when did this idea that it's okay to kill anything that doesn't look human take hold? This doesn't bode well for humanity's First Contact with an alien species. We've seen plenty of TV shows where people of different sapient species interact. "Amphibia" has Anne living in a world of talking amphibians, some of which are hostile. Is she free to go on a killing spree and gorge herself on frog's legs? Luz Noceda is living in a world populated by witches and sapient demons. Is she free to practice her fire spells on random passersby so long as they don't look human? The only animated character I've seen echo this belief is Rick Sanchez who slaughters entire worlds. He's hardly a role model. And is it okay for non-human sapient species to randomly kill humans for not being whatever species they are?
So much for diversity.
@@kylepope7850 "Anthropomorphized" is not the same thing is as "humanized". To humanize a character is to show the story from their perspective and make the audience empathize with that character. Bill Cypher was never an ambiguous character, he was THE bag guy from day one, and everyone knew he was the bad guy, at no point did the show try to make it seem like he has a valid point of view and his motivations weren't dwelt upon beyond "he's literally an eldritch being of chaos".
"And when did this idea that it's okay to kill anything that doesn't look human take hold?"
Whenever we started telling each other stories? Empathizing with and othering subjects is the keystone of the human ability to build social groups, this is nothing unusual.
Notice that for a human to even begin empathizing with any sapient creature, we give them traits that we understand to be human. The ability to speak human language, to have human emotions, etc. In essence, in order to empathize with any sapient being, we need to think of them as humans first, because evolutionary, we're hardwired to cooperate with other humans. Now because we're pattern-seeking animals, we're very good at extending that perception of what could count as "human" well beyond natural boundaries (this is why humans can take care of animals and look for uniquely human features, like big eyes, smiles, etc. in animals), but at its core, we're "blanketing" non-human entities with our own traits.
About the only way to NOT otherize a non-human alien species that we couldn't put human characteristics on, would be to politely leave them alone. That is an unfortunate reality of human consciousness.
I mean, I feel for you, but I'm afraid this isn't something you can just avoid.
You know what? That’s actually a really good point, I hadn’t thought about that. I really hope you don’t get to much backlash on vet this. A LOT of people are going to take this as “Avatar is bad, watch Kipo” and are probably going to throw a fit....
Yeah, I knew that was a risk going in, and even in the last video where I say I think SU is a better show, particularly personally cuz its my favorite, people still interpreted it as 'kipo is better than SU' and attacked me for it. It's just about the nuance of this particular character arc.
I really liked how you broke this down! I like understanding how childrens shows try to tackle incredible heavy topics because it is important for children to understand that life isn't black and white, good guy bad guy etc. Every villian thinks they're right in their own regard, and the way that Kipo handled her conflict i think is very telling of the world we live in. Wonderful video!
Glad you liked it! I was very happy that this show tackled this issue in a way that was still nuanced without having to get extremely gritty, it was a great balance.
Yeah just take Horde Prime from She-ra and the princesses of power, he thinks that destroying worlds and obliterating the universe will bring peace
Wakfu is also awesome as well. A true second Franime.
Life is black and white. Shades of Grey living leads to an Epstein, Clinton. 😑
It's been so long
Dr.amilia is like Horde prime.
They Two are the secret big bad of the series,are responsible for the existence of the former main villain of the show (hordak and scarlamagne) and belive in what they doing
That's true. Ooh! I hope Scarlemange kills Dr. Emilia :]
(Just like Hordak)
sui generis Well, HP was ultimately ended by She-Ra exorcising him.
@@pantheraviva Emilia got a much worse fate stuck playing with FunGus until she dies
more like catra and scarlamagne. hordak didn’t get that much screen time it was mostly adora vs catra before season 5
I am a big Avatar fan... but I am also able to point out the flaws of the story. Steven Universe, The Legend of Korra, and Kipo are able to show you the reasons for why a villain does what they do. They show you backstories about their path to darkness... and that’s relevant even with known cult leaders and serial killers in our world. They went through things that leads them down a path of darkness and leads to them being villains.
Ozai and Azula’s handling in the series is what people never talk about. Ozai was so one dimensional. Azula never had a proper close off and even in the comics she always runs off and never takes accountability or even gets the help she needs.
I would’ve loved if the comics dealt more with Aang having his own inner problems with taking away Ozai’s bending... like what would that have done to him, would he go crazy or be lead down a path of mental unrest like Korra...
I’ll even add She-Ra as an example of making such a complex character like Catra turn around full circle over the betrayal of the only person she cared about leaving her.
Azula got some arc in the comics however I personally didn't like the way it was made in the last issue she apeared in.
I honestly don't think Ozai is as bad as people say, why is that? Well, he has amazing interactions with Zuko and he served his purpose with Aang.
"Oh but he is just a world domination dude", but ironically it fits as a negative destructice characteristic of fire, just like Aang and Zaheer's arc has something to do with the nature of wind, so I can really see some charm in this aspect of Ozai as a villain, maybe the only thing he needed was more of a backstory to show how he came to be but that's all.
Actually Steven Universe never gives us a “reason” they just do it cause they want to not because they have to. No actual backstory, motivation or relatability is giving to the actual villains and in the end we only hit surface-level stuff.
well the thing is not all villains have to be built super complex or have justifications, while its good, its usually better if the villain is just the antithesis of the protagonist. some people are just evil because. There isn't always a sad story behind someones bad personality it can just be because thats who they are. take Yoshikage kira from Jojo for example. he's not really got a true sob story for why he chooses to murder women and have relationships with their severed hands other than he was just a mentally unwell individual who just accepted his messed up fetish as a positive.
even in our world not every bad person be it a killer or corrupt ruler has a tragic past. they are evil purely because they lust for things like power and military strength or because they love to indulge themselves in taboo activities. Ozai is a product of his culture and represents everything the group is trying to destroy, he doesn't need depth beyond what he represents which is a power hungry empire that will not stop consuming everything it can and its symbolised by him becoming phoenix king. He also serves as an antithesis to the values the show tries to impart on the viewer such as family, peace, love, acceptance, doing whats right. he is the exact opposite of all those things which the show has tried to tell us are good things.
I think the like of justifiable villains with reasons is more to do with us as humans wanting to see the good in people to understand them but "one dimensional" evil villains also teach us some people are just bad for no reason or than because they are.
I'd disagree, yes Ozai could have been handled better given his reasoning, although his purpose for his roll as an over arching villain was to represent the arocieties and beliefs that the fire nation leadership had accumulated and adapted to since Fire Lord Sozin, who ironically actually comes across as a better villain. Azula character however, is almost a perfect villain and probably one of, if not the best in western animation. We are given her development behind her reason and even insight into her sociopathic tendency that were developing even in her childhood. The sad truth about her character, is she did have closure just not one many cartoon fans are used to when addressing villains of such a young age. Azula's goal in life had come crashing down around her, and the very war her life had be purposely built for as well as her title as a future leader were stripped, this high level of emotion, accompanied with her sociopath behavior, caused her to have a complete mental break down, and one that even in the comic she doesn't recover from. She is not suppose to ave closure the same way Zuko does, because she is not meant to be redeem, her story arc ends with her inability to except the truths of her reality and the lack of control she has over it. And from a story writing perspective this is brilliant, for it introduces concept of the real world. Not everybody gets a happy, or even hopeful ending in life. Sometimes people have reaped what they sow, and have no closure to it, or in this case break down when presented with their consequences. Azula lived a truly awful and manipulative life, and while not entirely her fault, given her parents neglect or encouragement of her psychotic behavior, her taking accountability would be entirely out of character given the fact she's never once did that outside of manipulative gain in her life.
Azula was handled perfectly. They wrote a realistic psychopath (within the confines of the show) and made her the perfect villian. Yes, she was one dimensional, but technically speaking so are real life Psychopaths.
"Villains can't get killed"
TLOK: pfff, good one!
MT in Infinity Train killed her villains. Guess Infinity Train did what neither could.
She also has the moral compass of a brick. If she isn't directly killing someone that hasn't directly hurt her/try to hurt her, then she doesn't really care. The flects were trying to hurt her so she hurt them.
It was a joke my guy. Kind of a subtle dig at the video. This video is has a very weird point. But I do like Infinity Train.
Oof. Type-o. But hey you get it.
I halfway figured. ATLA, Infinity Train, and Kipo are all great shows. Make sure to tell your friends
Of course
Kipo is kinda unique. One of the protagonists wears her step mother's(?) pelt as a cloak. Kipo herself is a genetic experiment of her parents. Intentional experiment, which went right and granted her superpowers. Kipo's romantic interest is gay and shuts her down in like 2 min scene. In which we first learn that he is gay, and they simply stay friends.
I love Avatar, and he's right
Thanks! I think most people who are upset just think I was making ap point about which show is better, and I'm not. As of now I'd say Avatar is better, this is just about how kipo was able to do something avatar couldn't.
Deepcut Kipo rules, avatar is a lame show about a bald ass boy with a stupid blue arrow and and taking about stupid elements
@@applepie293 probably be joking
@@applepie293 I CRACKLED LMAO-
@MICHAEL JONES you clearly don’t have a sense of humor you uncultured swine.
wow, it's shocking how many people are completely missing the point
It is unfortunate.
Ikr XP
Avatar fans tend to get really defensive over the show even when people aren't critiquing it just when people aren't saying the show did literally everything.
The circlejerk around the show especially lately doesn't help this. And I'm saying this despite avatar being my favorite show.
@@slothful2039 I kinda think all fandoms are like this now. Social media has allowed them to evolve into cults.
@@MisterCynic18 true what start as friendly back and forth debates about concept inevitability leads to war and defensive behavior on both sides
There is a time and place for death. In that regardless of your morals there will always come a point where “you” will be forced to action. Where you will have to fight against those in opposition to you because the consequences of letting them carry on will be dire.
Kupo though she did go against her own morals has yet to do a final act. An act that she can’t take back and will regret for the rest of her life.
The final act as far as I know in recent history has not been shown in children’s television. Killing someone is just one type of final act, the burning of bridges, making a necessary but regretful decision to cut someone from your life is another
Kipo's final act was going full megamute without an anchor. It wasn't a leap of faith where she trusted her friends to rescue her; she made a conscientious decision to save the citizens, fully believing that she would never make it back. We could predict that she makes it back, obviously, but at the same time we can also predict when a character that was killed comes back to life (in some settings). Not saying it's a perfect example of a final act, but the narrative certainly presented it as one.
Kipo*
(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)
It's not that other shows (and especially animes) couldn't do the deconstruction, it's that they didn't want to and refused!
If I'm not mistaken I mention in this (or the first video) that this is only a thing in western animation. Keep in mind that SU literally refused to do this when the network asked them to have SU kill off spinel.
@@deepcut7788 Wait, do you have a is source the network asking for this?
@@UmTois Not on hand, but if you google around there is an interview where Rebecca Sugar says that the network asked her to have steven destroy spinel entirely to rid the universe of her evil.
Hunter x hunter does a lot of deconstruction.
Aangs decision not to kill Ozai is actually more important then most people realize not only does it go against his personal valvues but the values of his people on a whole as the last airbender if he abandons an aspect of his culture then that part of his culture dies because their are no more airbenders who practise it. Also the Ozais world view was that because the airbenders where destroyed because they where quote unquote too peaceful then they where weak so if Aang abandoned that part of his culture in order to win then it would be saying Ozai your right my people where to weak essentially proving Ozais world view and inviting others to follow that world view. Kinda like how shooting a murder just makes another murderer.
I know it was in the weak season, but Korra definitely killed Unalaq and explicitly acknowledges this when apologizing to Eska and Desna.
Also if the standard isn't that the protagonist needs to actually kill, since Kipo doesn't kill Scarlamagne, Steven Universe also already did this with Jasper. Jasper couldn't be negotiated with or convinced, she needed to be confronted physically to stop her from causing harm. There was no reconciliation, and in SUF her neutrality to Steven and the gems wasn't because she had been reasoned with but because her motivation disappeared.
TLOK was like: what?! No killing? Good one buddy!
I know I'm super late but in season 3 of Korra mako literally just used lightning on the water bender who was apart of the red lotus (forget her name) and kills her
May god help you with this one
I know right 😂😂😂
I couldn't see Kipo killing Scarlamagne. Plus I feel like he will get redeemed anyway
I mean it's not like there was any reason to, it was perfectly possible to defeat his army, he was not a one-monkey-army (despite having some OP power)
Nnamdi Agwuh oh he stills has to die in he’s going to redeem, might as well be the one to commit the heroic sacrifice of the series
I mean he is her brother after all. Hard to kill family
@@prowolf633 ;)
Kipo didn't kill scarlamane. I'm a humongous kipo superfan.
I seem to remember Voltron Force having both main humanoid villains getting stepped on.
More importantly, Aang left Ozai crippled and borderline invalid. Don't see how that doesn't count as seriously harming him.
Like I said, Aang has no problem getting into serious fights throughout the whole series. His issue is whether or not its okay to kill and in the end he finds a way to beat him without killing him.
Deepcut yeah, but Aang isn’t handed energy bending just so he doesn’t have to do something he doesn’t want to do. It’s because after a literal century of war, the cycle of violence has to end somewhere. As the Avatar, whose job it is to restore balance and peace, it makes sense that it would stop with him. Also, energy bending Ozai almost kills Aang in the process, the Lion Turtle warns that it’s going to be a battle of wills and whose spirit is stronger will decide the victor, that Aang risked getting corrupted or even killed by this process if he loses, and it almost happens. The two shows are really on such completely different thematic tracks that I don’t see the point in comparing them unless the intent is to bash one and praise the other for those themes.
Love that show a lot but last Airbender is in a league of its own.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
It's not about what shown is better or not. If a cartoon tackles something Avatar hasn't it ain't bad, it's progressive. KIPO did what others haven't done and that's good it opens more doors. Avatar is a masterpiece but it doesn't mean it has a lot of things written down maybe if the show continue it could and no I don't mean Korra.
@@deepcut7788 in art there really isn't objectivity to an extent. Just establishing your values in film and determining whether a piece of media meets the criteria of your values based on the events in a piece of media and your interpretation/opinion of those events and whether they meet YOUR values. And in this case atla perfectly met the values you had in film.
@@ravimanne8148 there are objective story beats though.
@@deepcut7788 exactly and from those we interpret and form an opinion which is what I mentioned above. Didn't I say the "events" of a story
I think Kipo did far better w/ developing "the main villain", than Avatar did. Even though Firelord Ozai was vastly more powerful, Scarlemagne is w/o a doubt, the far more compelling villain. However, the only reason Avatar's resolution is questionable is because of the deus ex machina used. "Energy bending" should've been foreshowed, and executed better. The ending of Avatar seemed a bit rushed & that they "painted themselves into a corner" w/ Aang's moral quandary & couldn't reasonably resolve it.
Atla laid the ground work for what the 2010s shows were allowed to do. So i see it as good.
I mean in infinity train MT ended up killing one of the flex police on purpose and didn’t rly show mercy.......yeah
He had also moments before tried to kill her so I think it probably counts as justified self-defense in that case. Besides I don't think she had felt the full weight of that yet due to the euphoria of finally making it off the train, if we get to see how she's holding up months or years later though...
HenshinFanatic oh no don’t worry, that was definitely justified. But yeah I wonder how she’s holding up. Good thing Jesse and Nate are there for her tho:)
But what about the Steven Universe: Future episode "Bluebird"? Also, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic showrunner Meghan McCarthy stated once about the villains on her show, "I don't think I'd want to reform all of our villains. I don't think that would be realistic. No matter how hard you try, some people (or evil alicorns) just aren't going to change their ways."; this is especially seen with Queen Chrysalis of the changelings.
"Heroes can't kill anyone in cartoons, even if it's a bad guy"
Lake in Infinity Train: ...
scarlamaine sacrifided himself to save kipo in sesaon 3. so in a way, she did kill him.
Am I just crazy or does kipo sound like luz
Aang taking on the personality traits of those who he takes bending from is a GENIUS idea
Did kipo have a uncle iroh ?
I mean in Kipo's story there IS the wise mentor archetype who did bad things in the past. HER DAD.
@raffle baffle they were goats!
Who else think that azula deserve to be in a top 10 best cartoon villains of all time list?
shes certainly the most fun villain.
The hero cant kill, but Hugo definitely killed those frogs
Of course heroes can kill if they have to. People are just mercifully pathetic
I was going to bring up the point of Infinity Train having Lake kill one of the Flex and the other being killed by Alan Dracula but that's not what your point was about. Your point was about moral conflicts and going against them so I agree X3
Didn't Ben Tennyson killed DNAliens in Alien Force or dozens of people in Destroy all
aliens movie. Or When Kevin Killed Ragnarok in Vendetta episode same episode in which Ragnarok killed his father.
Ben also killed Malware and Maltruant in Omniverse, in Ultimate Alien he would have killed Aggrogor and Ultimate Kevin if Gwen hadn't stopped him and he will kill Vilgax in the future. Ben has never shied from using lethal force we necessary.
Hoo boy... brace for backlash
I got the popcorn ready!
This channel has lost its honor
Now they have to hunt down the avatar
I’m getting my shades out
Who else think that scarlamagne deserve to be in a top 10 best cartoon villains of all time list?
Ba Hes Yeah, he is just crazy and you understand his point. He wants revenge on humans for keeping them in zoos and how he was forced to make pheromones for Amelia. He has a dark past. One of my favorite overall villains behind Shen.
I JUST WANT THEM TO MAKE SEASON 4😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I think you need to watch infinity train season 2 (pretty sure it was before Kipo season 2)... other than that you're 100% right :)
Yeah I agree. I love avatar but the 'you can now take away bending was dumb.' Aang was just giving plot armor so they wouldn't have to kill someone on screen.
The ending of atla didn't teach kid me anything because he was just given a really convenient power. If anything, it just told me that I would have had to kill ozai cause I'm not the avatar.
Kipo, on the other hand, went out of her way to save the villan, care about them, and overall teaches the principles of kindness. If I was a kid and watched kipo, I would have learned some important morals of not killing everyone who was an enemy, but instead lean to empathize with them.
I love atla but I have to give you a sub for this video.
Be prepared for Emilia’s death (there is no reasoning with her!)
I mean, there were other things to learn from the show other than how to deal with a evil murderous ruler. But yes. Plot armor. I think it would have been better if Aang discovered a way to get that ability instead of it just being given to him for accidentally finding the turtle.
Wait, isn't the whole point of Avatar ending to not giving up finding alternatives instead of running away or straight up breaking your principles?
I mean, sure, the lion turtle was convenient, but that is a structural writing issue more than a wrong moral. Also, it's the equivalent of Aang knocking Ozai out and chaining him in a similar manner as Azula while Zuko becomes the next firelord. I love Avatar but that's a third option that could have been brought up too.
Also, I don't know what's up with people expectations.
If anything, I feel tired of people bashing positive morals as straight up bad storytelling while saying the more cynical ones are always best. Fullmetal Brotherhood is a great example of a good moral integrity journey that is often criticised by "oh it's not bittersweet or negative ending so it's cliche, childish and bad" in the most superficial interpretation of a mature story possible.
I personally believe there are idealism messages and relatable messages, one of them is for us to strive for better things even if they don't seem likely, to get inspired, to be better than you are and not be so eager to give up; the other one is for us to relate in our failures, to know that there are ways to get over our mistakes and know how to deal with them.
As a digital artist, I can say the "idealism messages" do help me lot to keep going with this job, but relatable messages also help e when I'm at my worst, that's how it works.
if you'd analyze it a bit more-- you'd see that the avatar has always had the ability to take away peoples bending, as do the lion turtles. aang just didn't know this! and when he was touched by the lion turtle he was filled with wisdom.
the ending of avatar was perfect because aang ended a 100 year long war with non violence.
azulas end was crumbling inward, and no wound can inflict that.
no, it wasn't a plot armor at all, watch the series again, the very culmination of bending is the spiritual energy and the Avatar, the balance force between the mortal plane and the spirit plane of course can understand it, he was gven nothing but knowledge
yes t teached a damn lot about morality when Aang was talking with his past lives
I love Kipo so so much and it's one of the best netflix cartoons, but Avatar is a league of its own when it comes to animation and character storytelling.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
I'm going to take a shot everytime someone completely ignores what this video is talking about and says, "but avatar is in a league of its own".
@@slothful2039 the best drinking game.
THANK YOU what you said about avatar is what ive been trying to say about the resolution of the ozai fight since forever
Us who watched both "Samurai lost in time" and "Friendship Horses":
**tsk tsk tsk** here we go again-
Looking back at this with the third season out now and Amelia as the main antagonist this concept goes even further
I really like the way you put this! That it's not a matter of fighting and killing in itself, but the protagonist having to go against their own morality in order to do the right thing, which is definitely a very deep thing and important lesson to know.
Just wait everyone! Kipo will be forced to kill Emilia!
That would be pretty cool if it happened, though I imagine Emilia will end up doing that thing where the villain accidentally sets themselves up to die.
It actually turned out better than if she killed her imo
@@char5285 i mean she could easily manage to trick Fun Gus and scape sooner than later
Comparing Kipo to Avatar good luck with that one.
This isn't about which one is better or worse, but even a terrible, awful, horrible show can do something that the 'perfect' show didn't, simply because they tackle different themes. I recommend watching the video all the way to the end to understand what I am saying, because this video is not about which show is better, and I have been on the record as saying that Avatar is perhaps objectively the greatest show of all time (not even just for cartoons).
Deepcut They weren’t saying one show was better than the other, they were talking about the possible backlash from comparing Avatar and Kipo in the vid
@@marster_1203 Thank you.
Maverick Artist Np bro
@@marster_1203 My apologies!
What of Ben 10 generator Rex spider riders Aquaman some old Disney shows and Yu-Gi-Oh as a series
0:35 Ever watched Infinity Train? Specifically season two? That was definitely more than the doing of the bad guy or an accident that killed him
@@Modern_Herald It was no critique on the show, I really like it.
I am convinced that you should give children a bit more credit than to say that you have to protect them from everything evil in the world.
Do anyone now the name of the soundtrack?
2:00 BLUEBIRD WHY ARE YOU NOT ACKNOWLEDGING BLUEBIRD AZURITE
they never kill blue bird azurite. Steven does learn he can't redeem everyone but it doesn't factor into whether or not he will shatter them.
@@deepcut7788 that's true
@@deepcut7788 if you don't mind me asking why did you make this video (and the previous one) knowing very well that some people may read it the wrong way and attack you
@@meliodasowl9972 cuz if I didn't make videos anytime someone would read it wrong than I'd not have a job. Pretty much every single video we post has people who comment without watching.
@@deepcut7788 ok cool thanks for helping me understand better
Kipo is the "Pollyanna" of the new century. So be glad and make everyone else glad too.
Voltron Legendary Defender showed the characters kill tons of people. They make it very clear that living beings are in all those ships they blow up and Keith straight up stabs two guys
Yes, children dhows often have "clean" death. People tend to fall off screen, go up in bright light, get turned to stone, die in structures, ect.
Kipo was totally going to sink a boat full of people and Wolf was literally wearing her mom
I will say it again, I'm pretty sure Kipo wouldn't have done it.
Even if she would destroy the ship, when she would see how the people would slowly die she would deeply regret this decision and would propably do everything to save them.
Wolf didn't killed her mother. She killed a woman (wolf mutant) who pretend to be her mother and who never truly saw her as a daughter.
Also if you think about it, there was NO other choice for Wolf except fpr killing the Alpha Wolf !
Remember when she saw the huge dogs? She immediately asked her (ex) wolf sister who the Alpha was.
I agree with you about Kipo, but on a slightly different subject, what are your thoughts on Dead End Paranormal
Park? I feel like it's so unique and crazy with breaking the usual cartoon mold, but I'd love to hear your thoughts
I gree kipo did have two go against her moral code
And she was repaired to kill scarlemang but due to a turn of events that didn't happen
At 0:38 kupo looks like she just got caught stealing cookies 😂
Idk man, if people were trying to kill me for being the most powerful I wouldn't want to just "kindly talk to them" and actually go for "fighting literally anyone that crossed passed with"... but this is a contradicting statement to your first video. Anyone that posed a threat to Aang's group was a reason to be on the defensive, but not everyone he encountered was met with violence until proven otherwise... but this is another contradiction to your first video too.
Still a very wrong way to prove a point, especially towards a very beloved cartoon. Please stop trying to downplay Avatar (only centering around his ultimate confrontation) and making it seem like Kipo is the first show to "challenge morals" (talking about world building, Kipo's relationships with others, her morals and conflicts throughout the series) until trying to acknowledge Avatar at the very end of the video, that's not how you do comparisons or prove your point fairly
.
It feels like you really missed the point here.
He was talking about what kipo did different than avatar not what it did better
Okay, but, as Cory Doctorow put it: "Stories about how we can't afford to stick to our principles in times of crisis are a handy addition to any authoritarian's playbook."
The problem isn't that cartoons don't "acknowledge" that you "have to" kill the bad guy to save the good people. The problem is that the world does not divide neatly into Bad People who must be killed and Good People who must kill them. Heck, cartoons are better at acknowledging that than fiction ostensibly for grownups, just look at all the crime procedurals where loose-cannon cowboy cops are tracking a dangerous serial killer and anyone who talks about due process and civil rights is evil and endangering the innocent people.
Kipo is a way better show than you're giving it credit for. It portrays Scarlemagne as a tragic figure, not as just a Bad Guy who must be fought so that Kipo can learn a moral lesson about how punching people different from you really will solve all your problems forever (heck, you can see how they're setting it up for Kipo and Scarlemagne to team up against Emilia in season three).
Does no one notice the crazy, dope tunes in Kipo and the wonderbeasts?
ikrrrr
I put this show on for my
Niece not ever watching the show before hand and I was soooooooooo surprised that I couldn’t stop watching, in the trailer it was the music that hooked me, one of the best things about this show
I don’t know why but I want to see a video called “How Kipo did that Lucky Star couldn’t?”
Whoever sees this, THIS SHOW IS SO UNDERRATED
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Rayla from the dragon prince kill the villain (I forgot his name sorry) even tho he came back to life at the end
I think your argument is quite weak.
First, how can you say Aang was unchalleged?
All of the final episodes we are shown how he is struggling with the question wether he should kill Ozai or not, he talks with his past lives, he has ongoing paralel plans to stop the fire nation (white lotus and team Avatar sabotage of ballons), then when he fails to convice Ozai, they fight, yet in the end Aang wasn't capable of killing his enemy.
That's Familiar, because that's EXACTLY what happens in Kipo too: she tried to argue, didn't work, showed her failsafe plan and fought back, yet in the end she wasn't able to kill and locked the villain.
the only difference is that Aang took Ozai's bending with means that could have been better set up before, but that's is the Avatar world equivalent of putting someone to jail: you confiscate their weapons.
I think the point the video is trying to make is more exagerated than what it actually is.
"It was clear in that episode that though the means of her arc she would kill if it was necessary"
It wasn't.
She wanted to stop him, it was never implied she would kill him and when she had the oportunity she saved him. Proof? Well, when Kipo made the giant monkey had the oportunity to kill Scarlamagne she just hit him with one finger; we never see Kipo killing even in full Jaguar form; we don't see characters even discussing about "killing" and this is not the type of cartoon that show deaths (except for the golden statues), even the cartoons you used as example had these themes more often than Kipo.
While I'm at it, death is overrated anyways. There are plenty of shows that are meaningless gory yet are badly written, and there are shows that are light hearted but are well executed at their proposal.
UmTois the lion turtle also specifically told Aang that he must never allow his heart to succumb to the poison of hatred and allow his mind to see through the illusions of reality.
I asking with what avater character scarlamagne has more conection.
Zuko
Or
Ozai
Well prob more so ozai rn, but that could change later in the story.
Making it reeeaaal hard for me to not say it again...
Why would you set Kipo up like this. It's a great show, but Avatar is S Tier. Kipo simply cannot compare.
How about The Legend of Kora?
Funny, the last two cartoons I've watched. Let's see this
* Kyoshi to Aang *
I told you
Loving the content.Cartoon universe deserves to be so much bigger!
With “Superhumans’” upcoming conclusion, it’s a fight to the death. Our heroine, Sarah Steele, fully understands that if she wants to stop the main villain, Lord Galaxian, from being a threat anymore, she must kill him. He’s just too dangerous to be kept alive, as if you imprison or exile him, he’ll eventually escape, and he is beyond reason or redemption. And Galaxian is just too determined to fulfill his goal of ruling the universe to be talked down or forced to surrender. Sarah knows that if she is to stop him, she must go against her usual moral code and kill him.
I loved this show, was surprised not too many creators talked about it
Imagine if Kipo ends up killing Dr. Emilia.
My fav cartoon is KIPO AND THE AGE OF WONDERNEASTS
What he says is true in Steven Universe Future I'm pretty sure that when he meets connie's friend a he said it be easier to befriend them if they were enemies first.
Star Wars The Clone Wars would beg to differ. The heroes: Anakin,Ahsoka,Obiwan, the clones had plenty of dilemmas where they ultimately had to resort to killing
I like Kipo better
A more apt comparison is Jujustu Kaisen, not a kids cartoon, but it does follow this deconstruction. Itadori has had to kill, both as a mercy, and as a necessary evil. While it's not against shonen anime tradition for heroes to kill, it is a core component of Itadori's moral philosophy; to attempt reason before ending a life. Though there's also a lot of ambiguity over what counts as killing, since there is a distinction drawn between human and curse that is blurred as the series goes on.
What about infinity train
That’s all nice and all but why is he personally attacking Avatar?
I am getting pretty burnt out with the whole over simplified, love and acceptance conquers all rhetoric in children's and young adult's content. Not everything has to be spoon fed to us or covered in sunshine rainbows. I still love these shows, but it's starting to all blend together.
I think Steven Universe and the many shows that followed, have shown that kids are capable of thinking about more serious or confusing topics.
Not everyone has to understand everything right away. How many times have you re-watched/read a thing, and gained an entirely new understanding of the material? We don't and shouldn't have the same thoughts or feelings our whole lives. Besides, what else are these cartoon communities for if not for discussion?
I think I want shows to risk having characters deal with permanent consequences for their actions and not having everyone understand the deeper meanings in stories right away.
I feel ya, that is why Kipo ws so refreshing with its themes, even if they presented them in a largely innocent way. I think with Steven Universe the important thing to remember was that while they were crazy evil dictators, the intention of the story was to be a parallel to family and more small 'modern' problems in relationships as opposed to things like genocide and such.
I believe both these shows have done so so much for the genre of cartoons atla brought in the idea of hey kids aren’t all dumbasses and emotion into the genre and kipo has done things as well these shows go down in my tops for western animation
What are you talking about, I love kipo but Avatar did way better then kipo. I love Aang and Korra series.
Is anyone going to use Ben 10 as an example?
Someone did by saying that he thought about killing Kevin, but from what he said he is like Aang in the Avatar, he considered killing Kevin but ultimately found a way not to.
Well ben did do something similar in Ultimate Alien, in an episode, the Forever Knights were going around killing aliens on earth including one of Ben's friends Pierce, Ben did eventually stopped them, but once Ben defeated the leader of the knights (i think his name was Driscoll) Ben made it very clear that he if he ever continued killing inocent aliens Ben whouldnt hesitate to kill him, its not really exactly the same but Ben did made it clear that although he can give people second chances he was also willing to kill if someone crosses the line
This why I still love Ben 10?
I was about to disagree, then I found out the awnser was kill, and I must confess that you are right.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THIS SHOW AND HOW GREAT IT IS!!!!!
Actually wasn’t Aang taking away Ozai’s bending exactly the same as Mulholland neutralizing Scarlemagne’s mind control??
Only Kipo was spared the need to fight when Aang did the hard work to find a way to maintain his morals.
Both characters fought all the time but the shows I suppose being for kids allowed the fights to never need to maim or kill opponents. Pretty similar IMO.
Kipo was just more overtly all about pacifism although Aang was a total pacifist too.
Honestly, I think you are overrating this aspect of Kipo a bit too much.
its not magic its energy bending
Well, I'd say this was quite a worthy video to watch.
This isn’t a cartoon but a kids show that talks about serious issues without dumbing them down for kids too much is Sesame Street, this might sound strange but actually watching the show they really don’t hold back with dark themes, in one episode they literally killed off elmos uncle just to have. Story about losing a loved one
I see what you mean it’s about the character going against their personal moral codes. Unfortunately I have yet to watch that show😅
This is summarized by bow in s2 e3 or e2 spop
The entire show's theme is how tribalism and social constructs we divide ourselves across doesn't have to exist and it's possible to coexist. The mutes are alagories for different human races/nationalities and so on. Irl races aren't biologically much different, but the show makes a point of how, even if we were different sentient spieces, it doesn't change the fact that we can coexist and work together peacefully. Because environment, society and culture trumps biology.
Huh? The previous Avatars didn't kill anyone.
Whoa; am I missing something?
I'll have to rewatch that episode, but I'm pretty sure when Ang was asking the previous avatars if he should kill the Fire Lord, they said that they DIDN'T kill someone and it ended up costing loved ones because they didn't do it.
Am I wrong? Because I'm almost 100% sure thats what transpired.
Exceptions need to be made even if you have morals that need to be follow but your right
It's basically naruto but people don't hate kipo
I like and love the kipo series its one of my favs🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😍😍
avatar does try a lot of times to change prince zuko...
Me when I saw this video pop instead avatar state
me watch the video on okay
Why target Avatar tho??? Like you said it’s like that for all other shows. Unless the comments brought up avatar. Still the title is a bit ridiculous...
I like Kipo just fine but I like Avatar more and actively rewatch Avatar, Idon’t do that with Kipo. So I don’t agree with you and think you’re wrong but you’re entitled to your opinion.
Did you watch the video?
David Nwaokolo I did, I should’ve worded what I meant better sorry about that. What I meant was that I can see the points he’s making about Kipo and how it did a certain thing better than Avatar. But I simply disagree and think Avatar just did a better job at it.
Just because you prefer one piece of media over another, does not mean the one you prefer is objectively better. And also, just because one piece of media did one thing better than another, does not make it objectively better.
M&M I know that, I just personally believe Avatar did it better. It’s my opinion
@@melit. Except Avatar objectively did not do that, much less better, so your opinion is just wrong.
Kipo looks like anime