as I've seen it the Seperatis droids have taken pleasure in executing even people stuck in an escape-pod, so its fair to assume that surrender just meant death anyway.
@@robertagu5533Yeah, after that episode way back in season 1 where the battle droids were just happily vibing while they tore open escape pods, I figured clones didn't surrender because they knew they were likely to receive no mercy. There's absolutely no mercy from droids; Cut Lawquane I think even mentions that droids went around shooting the enemy wounded after battles (if I remember right, he played dead and escaped when they were done). I imagine from organics, like for example the Umbarans, they wouldn't receive much better treatment. Many people in the Republic look on clones as little more than droids made of flesh and blood, and I imagine Separatist opinions either trend towards that angle or towards the opinion that the treatment of the clones is one of the many wrongs of the Republic, so they must win against the Republic at any cost (that little minority would probably be the safest people for a clone to surrender to, but there's no good way to know who holds that opinion, and much of the Separatist side of the war is just fought with droids anyways). The outlook for a surrendering clone is pretty grim.
This sounds silly, the cartoonish clumsiness of battledroids was already silly but endearing, but they are simple programmed machines. They dont have sadism, they're war mechs, and they were most likely programmed according to in-universe war regulations akin to our geneva conventions
"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Speaking as a Brit that speech was more about standing up to Nazi Germany and not capitulating when Britain was the last country fighting them before the USA entered the War. It’s more about a spirit of resistance than an actual plan.
Here I am, getting a dose of therapy this morning. Alan, dropping truths, “following orders is extremely important to them The thing that keeps everything in order on this chaotic battlefield.” Imagine the PTSD the Clones suffered. After everything having to kill your commanders and then watch the Empire turn against them. Theres no VA for them. It must have been hell.
I don't think the Clones can get PTSD, or maybe they just suppress it as part of their "programing" (they are basically a Warrior Race, born and breed to fight a war). Although, As Commander Cody said in that one episode of Bad Batch when staring at the Genosus memorial "The Difference between us and droids, we have to live with our choices." I THINK Cody knows what he tried to do to General Kenobi, but he also knows theirs nothing he could do to change that.
Maybe they don't try to surrender because Kenobi pulled that fake surrender on Christophsis at the start of the clone wars. We see the Seperatist commander willing to accept the surrender before it turned out to be a trick to buy time to destroy the shields
@SelfNecker Anakin also surrendered to Dooku, which was also a fake surrender. Anakin was also faking surrender on a bridge, when Kenobi and his clones were pinned by the droids. Both Kenobi and Anakin did not care about the rule to not fake a surrender.
Surrender or captured? Technically we have seen clones “surrender” but we’ve never really seen them be captured. An example, first season of Clone Wars. In the 2nd blue shadow virus episode, when Anakin and his squad get to the Doctor who captured Jar Jar and Padme they had to surrender their weapons to not let them get hurt. I think it’s semantic based on certain examples. I don’t think we’ve seen a Clone surrender when a Jedi wasn’t around if that helps.
Season 2 micro Clone Wars series see Clone Troopers surrounded then season 3 & 4 of the Clone Wars Clones were captured in the citadel and Mon Calamari arc’s
Looks like clones are allowed to surrender if it's the best option to do so. Fighting to the death is not always the best or most strategic thing to do in war.
If the clones has been given the tactical training that the average US Soldier or Marine receives, that is how to use cover, not to stand in the open, and other "I wanna die" tactics, they'd have had many more survivors. Just standing in the open blasting away or following some space wizard with a laser sword that's charging the enemy lines is, well, that's a recipe for a body bag and a name on a monument.
Remember the galaxy is basically thousands of years out of practice at fighting major wars that might account for the fact their training didnt hammer the concept of taking cover..... theyre lucky they weren't trained to march towards the enemy line in line formation until theyre 50 feet away from the enemy before they're ordered to shoulder their blasters before being ordered to finally fire.
@@Kakarot64. There were enough smaller factions fighting all along that the basic concepts would have been retained. Plus...books, recordings, even vid entertainment. And then you have them trained by mercenaries and Mandalorians. Granted, the Mandos don't impress me with their overall martial prowess, but still. The root cause is that the people writing the scenes have zero clues about combat beyond swords and shields.
Following the wizard with said laser sword is their cover. They developed it into such a tactic called Sword and shield. The jedi defends and covers the clones with their lightsabers, while the clones shoot at the enemy. Also, in the Republic Commando books, one of the original kaminoan clone commando observed the Spaarti clones who were mass produced as cannon fodder failing to even take cover during firefights.
I specifically remember scenes in The Clone wars where clones surrendered. Idk where it is but there’s one prominent one where a bunch of clones (no color on armor) were surrounded then surrendered
Yeah, I can remember briefly which one you're talking about. It's in the opening credits of one of the episodes, phase 1 armor. I can't remember the exact episode but remember that scene.
Lets remember though. Separatists had very little reason to trust a clone surrender. Jedi had a history of using surrender and negotiations as either a stalling action or means of attack. Separatists then had little issue with killing those who tried to surrender because... there was no proof it was real or in good faith. Droids WOULD take prisoners unless directly ordered not to, in fact it was their default.
I find that moment of hesitation by the droids on Rishi very interesting. That B1 asks if they're able to take prisoners rather than just killing Hevy. It leads me to believe that certain types of battle droids, especially B1s, when not given specific orders, don't know what to do. If you don't tell a B1 whether or not it can take prisoners, it will neither kill nor capture incapacitated enemies, at least for a short while until it can compute for itself what to do on its underpowered cpu.
@@Usualrocketjumpingmaniac Depends on the translation. Does anyone have access to the word originally used that would later be translated into brother/friend for this passage?
Only time I’ve seen them surrender without a commander ordering them to is when the republic loses in Star Wars battlefront 2, even then I don’t think it actually shows them surrendering I think it just shows them captured
I don't think it's a loyalty thing, entirely. It's partly just Jango. He was a flawed man that would break before he would ever bend, so having the Kaminoans emphasize whatever part of Jango that is a sociopath that will rather die than lose makes sense to me. How they develop as individuals might change it. If they surrender, it's because they have a plan to break out already.
This reminds me of something I saw on a WWII channel where they were talking about a meeting of the Japanese Supreme War Council shortly before the end of the war. This meeting took place AFTER almost the entire Japanese fleet had been sunk, AFTER the Japanese air force had been reduced to Kamikaze attacks, AFTER American bombing had essentially destroyed all Japanese industry (and many Japanese cities and civilians - war sucks), and AFTER one atomic bomb had already been dropped on Japan. At this meeting the Japanese Minister of War Korechika Anami said it was far too early to surrender because, according to him: JAPAN COULD STILL WIN THE WAR. So... yeah. Maybe sometimes being a bit out of touch with reality is part of the decision making process.
"... the Jedi were complicit in their deaths..." Lucius once again showing, not telling, that the Jedi of the late Republic were not the Good Guys. The order had fallen from the high republic years.
In my former line of work I have been in multiple firefights and have been shot twice on two different occasions and stabbed and cut many more and I can tell you something comes over you where you still have fear but you can put it behind you and keep fighting because you want to live and if you let the fear take over you then you are done. You just keep fighting until one side wins and hopefully it's you.
I think also came some what came down to leadership on bothsides while partially think to with how the battle droids were programed. I typically would suspect standard B1s to be more open to taking clones prisoners or even surrendering themeselves and or B1 commanders trying to pull a fast one to save his own processor by pointing to one his subordinates saying hes actually the game you want him clones. When he clearly has the gold/yellow paint markings to indicate that he is the commander. However though the B1s that probably enjoyed killing crews of escapes were under the direct command of General Greivious and with His secret warship the Malevance or Soviegn class heavy cruiser he needed to have no witnesses so he could cause havoc on the republic navy with prisoners it poses a security risk of having element of suprise disappear. Plus General Greivous was an absolute Physcopath that often murdered his own droids to make a point of why hes in charge and surrounded by a bunch of incompetant and whinny little shits from his perspective when even the B1s do have legimate and warranted concerns from time to time. So the ones definitely under General Grevious probably might kill clones out their own frustation that General Grevious didn't give a dam about them or out of fearing his wrath because if they killed clones taking an objective and what not some of the B1s might think we fought with some honour and competance today that we will General Grevious on less reason to scrap us. I feel that B2 Super Battle Droids might open to taking prisoners to but they also have tendency lumber along and fill clones with reapting blaster fire or simply punch them to death once they get close at in the clone wars show that just seem be more simple minded task oriented to. So again if a say tactical droid instructed them to take prisoners they might or willingly if they take on some form a defacto leadership. Droidkeas having been built by the collocudes would require oversite by a commander or have some additional program software to allow for taking prisoners. As they were meant to be cold ruthless killing machines much like the insectoid race that built them. Commando Droids probably would be the most likely to take prisoners as often smaller numbers allow for capture high value targets for the CIS and it probably would be common type of mission for them like say be instructed to capture Captain Rex or Commander basically high ranking commanders that could through entire clone battlions and legions in dissarry with its leadership and tactics. As for IG 100 Magna guards they were typically task with protecting General Grevious so the only likely hood they would take clone prisoners if a small commando squad or ark trooper platoon tried to either assassinate or take the commander of the droid army captive themselves and successfully incapacity either all or some of their members. But some of trolling Obi wan and Anakin didn't help either with using bluff or decietful surrenders to win the battles in the end. Chances are if the seperatists had a more merciful commander then they would try take clone prisoners and possibly try to find away to accomadte them as best they could with what little resources would have for organic soldiers. Provided some clones would be willing to. But its safe to if General Grevious Himself the commander of all the cis forces only second to count dooku then your chances are practically zero for a surrendering clone. Grevious was ruthless and cold hearted killing machine thats what made him dangerous in his prime as a cyborg. But this was a guy who would punch a droids head off for simply being a terrible shot as a gunner or slice in half for explaining they need to go into sleep mode recharge their batteries. But some more Jr commander and even a tactical droid commander their is a strong possiblity it could happen if said clones were willing to be captured to.
Droids don't take prisoners, nor do they offer any opportunity to surrender. The best example of this is the deliberate destruction of escape pods from Plo Koon's cruiser after it got EMPed by Malevolence.
That is not a great example as the Malevolence was a secret weapon intended to leave no survivors. They didn’t have a choice. Battle of Mon Cala they took prisoners almost an entire battalion all be it those were aqua droids Battle of Teth took Rex
@@Ash_of_fireXD The survivors were conveniently containerized and could've been easily captured and held aboard Malevolence, brought aboard with the same EVA operation used to space them. Also the EVA droids were literally singing as they spaced the clones. They *enjoyed* murdering the clones.
@@michaeledmunds7056 I was hoping someone would point me to where this came from. While not the exact same wording, the principle is pretty similar. I still can't remember if I made it up myself or heard it somewhere. :P I mostly use it in the context here.. everyone assumes people are being mean, evil, or malicious, when it's much more likely they just don't know.
I think the capacity to surrender would be too much initiative for the Kaminoans to tolerate Like in the season with that squad that failed training on Kamino and had to learn to work together, one of them tried to surrender lol.
He had an unpleasant experience once with the 2nd most intelligent species on the planet, something to do with probes and certain parts of his anatomy, it's understandable... But his hatred of Ewoks has No justification !
Before watching the video, my guess is this. Clones never surrender, and one of the reasons is that Droids don't take POW's. They will take civies prisoner, but not enemy combatants. Unless it's a Jedi.
I was going to touch on the logistics of CIS droid units capturing GAR units, but you got most of it. I'd assume that if the particular CIS unit was the right kind of organics, then surrender would be more palatable. I'd also assume most of Grievous' campaigns didn't plan on POWs.
To be fair to the CIS, regarding the amount of food/medical equipment they'd have, while it wouldn't likely be as plentiful as with the Republic, they'd certainly have some. The CIS had lots of PDF forces that fought for them when their home planets defected to the CIS, not to mention organic crew on ships, so they for sure had some.
“You can’t be asking us to turn tail and run”- Rex on Geonosis They were indoctrinated to not give up. But there is a scene in a season 1 intro and on mon Cala where clones surrendered. Also the droids had orders to wipe out all clones.
Let’s be real even if the droids did kill you for surrendering, and making it home you’re only in for kaninoan “reeducation”. So ya fighting to the end seems like the best option
Ever played star wars battlefield 2? The newest and all that. I always felt a bit weirded out how when the republic wins, they quite literally execute the droids in the background, while if the separatists win they take the clones as POWs. I don't know, just felt weird, I seen a few droids "convey" fear and regret. Even sometimes sadness. So always felt weird that they decide to just have the clones execute the droids in the background of "REPUBLIC VICTORY"
Well have you ever seen a droid asking to surrender? Though I still think its rediculous when you count all the war crimes the republic commited against droid armies. Now can you commit war crimes against a droid army? Any canadians here?
I seem to remember droids asking for a surrender from Jedi, but not a pure clone force. I suspect their programming accounts for the idea that Jedi are either Generals or Commanders that may have vital information or are considered Grievous' prey.
Canadian here, you can’t commit war crimes towards weapons and battle droids are more so weapons than combatants. If you “capture” an enemy’s rifle and slowly carve letters onto it, you’re not getting charged with mutilation or if you capture a tank and toss a demotion charge into it, you’re not getting charged with wrongful execution
Great video! One point I'd like to add it: Why would the CIS even take clomes prisoners? Clones would likely not be the most obedient captives towards those they are consider their enemies. Meaning you the CIS likely wouldn't be able to use thrm as labour slaves. Prisoner exchange is also off the table for obvious reason. And simce even the Republic itself didn't recognize clones as actual humans, the CIS also have no reason to take prisoners to avoid public outcry for not doing so
There is a still in Star Wars the Clone Wars 2003, where clones are surrounded and they surrender. You can find the clip from TH-cam by searcing "Separatist invasion, Star Wars the Clone Wars 2003" at 0:55 sek mark.
Yes, we have seen clone troopers surrender before (although I have no examples to bring up at the time of writing this comment) but because of how the separatists handle POW's and how the clones think, the majority of them consider fighting to the death or fleeing if possible to be the only logical options
He's usually the first comment I ever would see and It's nice... Sooo keep It up mate and Don let Nothing get you Down, NIETHER OF Y'ALL...GOD Loves you and HE sees you never quit But Pursue JESUS Because HE Pursues you
Hahaha funnily enough i use socks on my microphone as i'm in a noisy environment and it helps, my mic picks up noise from all directions unfortunately.
So did we just forget about Episode 1 where the B1s were even more efficient and ruthless, they literally demand the Gungangs to surrender. Or the Droids in the Hangar when the party makes their escape, their first course of action is trying to arrest them. Though it probably is rather situational with the droids, and in most cases you probably shouldn't try and reason with them. You may get lucky with a B1, as they weren't meant as pure battle droids, they are more like pawns, that you can hand a weapon to shoot at something, but they are more general purpose worker droids, like they are capable of piloting ships and tanks and do stuff like maintenance, they were made to be the main workforce on trade federation ships. While most other droids in the separatist army are purely combat oriented, and accordingly have a fairly simple mindset.
I mean, he was probably able to look back and compare his troops under Cody vs the more modern stormtroopers and just feeling sorrow over how little personality and "humanity" the stormtroopers had. Ironic, considering how most people thought of the clones as just meat droids.
The Jedi who used form 5 and 3 should use extra durable shields and use more force jumps to evade, or use a ranged tool; the melee units and ranged clones should stay afar, the jedi that can't get close should leap across the battlefield like mace windu for repositioning, instead of standing thier ground if the attacker against the jedi and clones are droids, leaping to the side or back is ok.
I was always figured there were combat drugs involved in there somewhere. You're squad is dead, you have half a charge pack in your main blaster, your sidearm, a vibroknife and no chance of winning. Time for 1cc of whatever passes for PCP in Star Wars and seeing how many droid servants we can rack up for the afterlife in Clone Valhalla.
"Did the Clone Troopers of the Grand Army ever surrendur?" They might've, but then Kenobi committed several war crimes such as violating the white flag of parlay by knowingly commanding/allowing a sneak attack while negotiating a conditional surrender, ensuring no Republic General, Officer, or Trooper would ever have their word accepted, displaying how far the Jedi and the Republic had fallen, also serving to highly the incredible stupidity of even normally wise Jedi Knights when they were granted extremely high rankings despite having no experience, understanding, or education in battle tactics, war strategies, the Rules of War, field command; not even logistics. The Jedi Order had gone downhill since their victory over Kaan and his Sith Brotherhood on Ruusan, their Knights and the teachings of their Order in the millenium since the days when the Army of Light were all that stood against the darkness and when the Republic was but a few hundred Star Systems in the Core after losing the rest of the galaxy to either the Brotherhood of Darkness or the Hutt Cartels. Back then, the Republic as a galactic power had lost all influence and resources with the Senate being disbanded due to the lack of Senators and member world. For protection, powerful systems offered Jedi housing, supplies, titles, and even planets in return for their service in protecting them or in leading/training their people, yet the Jedi, too, had lost much in the centuries of continual war and by Hoth's era the Jedi High Council/Council of First Knowledge had lost the majority of their seated councillers with most Jedi scattered across the galaxy. This is why Hoth held the title "Jedi Lord", but even at their weakenest, even when forced to draft Force Sensitive children for lack of numbers, the Army of Light was vastly greater in number than the mere 10,000 populatin limit later imposed upon the Jedi by the Ruusan Reformation; legions of Jedi wearing Force embued armor fighting in perfect coordination thanks to the nature of the Light Side and Battle Meditation. Jedi in those days didn't hold loyalty to any one system of governance, let alone one that had proven a failure dozens of times over in their inability to provide their member systems' protection or even supply them with logistics view non-sensitive Grunts. It was the Ruusan Reforemation that castrated the Jedi: no armor was allowed, no families (the Jedi had played with the No Families thing off and on for a very long time), no posessions (so they had to forsake titles and planets because the Republic was terrified they'd never manage to recover after the Jedi proved even more adept at governing than the Republic had ever been), and only one weapon----the lightsaber, a 10,000 member populating cap, and the ordered disbandonment of all naval military ships. Kenobi, in his ignorance of military history, failured to realize that he doomed far more Troopers to certain death than he had managed to save on through victory or spared among your enemy.
🤔 . . . I’m pretty sure that surrender is built upon the situation at hand. For example, if an enemy can become a potential ally, i.e. the Talz being a great example of such a hypothetical scenario, then surrendering in order to gain the allegiance of an enemy’s enemy was encouraged. However, in cases or situations where in which they’re labeled as 111% enemy (couldn’t think of a better phrase & such), then surrendering was often seen as frowned upon. What ultimately mattered was defeating the enemy, or even achieving a successful mission; if surrendering will ultimately achieve that end goal, then so be it, but if it can’t don’t…
Hey Bro! What do you think about Assasination plots on Palpatine during the war? Can you cover that in a what if? Like what happens to the Clone wars if his manipulation ended abruptly when General Grievous went to take palpatine but instead grevious just killed palpatine
Well they came from Jango Fett's genetic template-a skilled and highly respected Mandolorian and were trained by other Mandolorians and other highly skilled trainers that recognized and appreciated their culture, fighting prowase and history! So not a far stretch to think they repeatedly saw and heard so many-even their brother 99 that many judged was defective-only to watch him and many others give their lives and fight honorably as brothers to complete their mission even if it meant they would die!! Just like the many soldiers who serve in US special forces units, the Marine Corps and other elite forces around the world. A disabled US Army Veteran
I can't recall the battle droids ever taking prisoners on their own, my assumption is that they were programmed to kill everyone unless otherwise ordered. The only time the sepertist take prisoners is when one of the organic officers says to do so, and this is only for important targets like certain jedi and high ranking republic officers, and the men who accompanied them. Otherwise lower ranking clones and officers were left to the "mercy" of the droids which was just shooting them.
I believe many of them just saw it as the better way to go out. They often had the chance to escape but staying and dying would make them stand out and just end the mission, the nightmares. Dying was both the most bravest and honourable thing according to their collective ideology, kinda like the Japanese.
Honestly depends on the droids. B1s might not be outright bloodthirsty. The B2s and Bx's most definitely enjoy malicious slaughter. Which would cause B1s to follow suite out of peer pressure anyway
It can't be emphasized enough. In the realm of combat effectiveness, clone troopers are second to none. They started the Clone Wars outnumbered 10:1, at a generous estimate. The average clone trooper is a SOF, and the best are at Master Chief level
as I've seen it the Seperatis droids have taken pleasure in executing even people stuck in an escape-pod, so its fair to assume that surrender just meant death anyway.
That's what I always see an thought too. An if your a soldier gonna die on the battlefield it's always best to go down fighting
@@robertagu5533Yeah, after that episode way back in season 1 where the battle droids were just happily vibing while they tore open escape pods, I figured clones didn't surrender because they knew they were likely to receive no mercy. There's absolutely no mercy from droids; Cut Lawquane I think even mentions that droids went around shooting the enemy wounded after battles (if I remember right, he played dead and escaped when they were done). I imagine from organics, like for example the Umbarans, they wouldn't receive much better treatment. Many people in the Republic look on clones as little more than droids made of flesh and blood, and I imagine Separatist opinions either trend towards that angle or towards the opinion that the treatment of the clones is one of the many wrongs of the Republic, so they must win against the Republic at any cost (that little minority would probably be the safest people for a clone to surrender to, but there's no good way to know who holds that opinion, and much of the Separatist side of the war is just fought with droids anyways). The outlook for a surrendering clone is pretty grim.
How disturbing is it that the Separatists actually PROGRAMMED that into their droids?
@@duskcrane4317 Considering how droids are in SW, chances are that it was not an intentional action programmed into them.
This sounds silly, the cartoonish clumsiness of battledroids was already silly but endearing, but they are simple programmed machines. They dont have sadism, they're war mechs, and they were most likely programmed according to in-universe war regulations akin to our geneva conventions
"We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Great line from Dunkirk
Churchill would've loved the clones, he'd probably teach them to smoke cigars
@@OrionInSpace Its Churchill. One of the most badass and legendary speeches I have ever listened too.
@@xSoulhunterDKx I know lol
Speaking as a Brit that speech was more about standing up to Nazi Germany and not capitulating when Britain was the last country fighting them before the USA entered the War. It’s more about a spirit of resistance than an actual plan.
Here I am, getting a dose of therapy this morning. Alan, dropping truths, “following orders is extremely important to them The thing that keeps everything in order on this chaotic battlefield.” Imagine the PTSD the Clones suffered. After everything having to kill your commanders and then watch the Empire turn against them. Theres no VA for them. It must have been hell.
I’m sure PTSD was either genetically changed or was altered. Having a soldier with PTSD is a liability (depending on severity)
I don't think the Clones can get PTSD, or maybe they just suppress it as part of their "programing" (they are basically a Warrior Race, born and breed to fight a war). Although, As Commander Cody said in that one episode of Bad Batch when staring at the Genosus memorial "The Difference between us and droids, we have to live with our choices." I THINK Cody knows what he tried to do to General Kenobi, but he also knows theirs nothing he could do to change that.
"Better to die for the Republic than live for yourself." - some zealot Clone Trooper probably
Cut would disagree.
i feel attack :)
“My ship is infested by battle droids! Separatists troops are on every deck! We will destroy the ship and take the enemy with us!”
Alpha -17 . When kamino was attacked, he planned to kill the younger clones saying "they'grow up loyal to the republic or they don't grow up at all. "
For the Emp- I mean uh republic
Maybe they don't try to surrender because Kenobi pulled that fake surrender on Christophsis at the start of the clone wars. We see the Seperatist commander willing to accept the surrender before it turned out to be a trick to buy time to destroy the shields
And Skywalker did something similar when "surrendering" his ship. Right into the enemy flagship.
@SelfNecker Anakin also surrendered to Dooku, which was also a fake surrender. Anakin was also faking surrender on a bridge, when Kenobi and his clones were pinned by the droids.
Both Kenobi and Anakin did not care about the rule to not fake a surrender.
Surrender or captured? Technically we have seen clones “surrender” but we’ve never really seen them be captured. An example, first season of Clone Wars. In the 2nd blue shadow virus episode, when Anakin and his squad get to the Doctor who captured Jar Jar and Padme they had to surrender their weapons to not let them get hurt. I think it’s semantic based on certain examples. I don’t think we’ve seen a Clone surrender when a Jedi wasn’t around if that helps.
Season 2 micro Clone Wars series see Clone Troopers surrounded then season 3 & 4 of the Clone Wars Clones were captured in the citadel and Mon Calamari arc’s
@@StarMandoForge good point you’re right I completely forgot that that battle was won by the separatists at first before they lost afterwards
Looks like clones are allowed to surrender if it's the best option to do so. Fighting to the death is not always the best or most strategic thing to do in war.
@@dootless3819 not always no
@@dootless3819 Live today fight tomorrow
Jedi Master I'mGonnaDie LMAO
Dude is literally called Master Ima-Gun Di. Subtle, George. Very subtle. :D
With Clone Captain KillMe
@@MastaToSchworst part? I missed that for YEARS.
Roflmao
I love this
That’s his actual name
If the clones has been given the tactical training that the average US Soldier or Marine receives, that is how to use cover, not to stand in the open, and other "I wanna die" tactics, they'd have had many more survivors. Just standing in the open blasting away or following some space wizard with a laser sword that's charging the enemy lines is, well, that's a recipe for a body bag and a name on a monument.
Remember the galaxy is basically thousands of years out of practice at fighting major wars that might account for the fact their training didnt hammer the concept of taking cover..... theyre lucky they weren't trained to march towards the enemy line in line formation until theyre 50 feet away from the enemy before they're ordered to shoulder their blasters before being ordered to finally fire.
@@Kakarot64. There were enough smaller factions fighting all along that the basic concepts would have been retained. Plus...books, recordings, even vid entertainment. And then you have them trained by mercenaries and Mandalorians. Granted, the Mandos don't impress me with their overall martial prowess, but still.
The root cause is that the people writing the scenes have zero clues about combat beyond swords and shields.
Just further proves how the Jedi don’t really know how to fight effectively in warfare
Thank you! You have no idea how infuriating it is for me to see this happen over and over in almost every bit of star wars media.
Following the wizard with said laser sword is their cover. They developed it into such a tactic called Sword and shield. The jedi defends and covers the clones with their lightsabers, while the clones shoot at the enemy.
Also, in the Republic Commando books, one of the original kaminoan clone commando observed the Spaarti clones who were mass produced as cannon fodder failing to even take cover during firefights.
I specifically remember scenes in The Clone wars where clones surrendered. Idk where it is but there’s one prominent one where a bunch of clones (no color on armor) were surrounded then surrendered
Yeah, I can remember briefly which one you're talking about. It's in the opening credits of one of the episodes, phase 1 armor. I can't remember the exact episode but remember that scene.
@@centurionflorian4906battle of teth
When it comes to the Clones this is the sad truth they would ether die a Hero or live long enough to see themselves become the Villain.
In my opinion the one's who died before Order 66 are the lucky one's because they didn't have to watch as they shoot their Jedi Generals.
One more thing: Chancellor Palpatine. Can we trust him?
Thanks for video, video man
Captain Rex and some Clones were taken prisoner by Ventress on Teth.
So it probably depends on your CO.
Lets remember though. Separatists had very little reason to trust a clone surrender. Jedi had a history of using surrender and negotiations as either a stalling action or means of attack.
Separatists then had little issue with killing those who tried to surrender because... there was no proof it was real or in good faith.
Droids WOULD take prisoners unless directly ordered not to, in fact it was their default.
I find that moment of hesitation by the droids on Rishi very interesting. That B1 asks if they're able to take prisoners rather than just killing Hevy. It leads me to believe that certain types of battle droids, especially B1s, when not given specific orders, don't know what to do. If you don't tell a B1 whether or not it can take prisoners, it will neither kill nor capture incapacitated enemies, at least for a short while until it can compute for itself what to do on its underpowered cpu.
“Show them no mercy…for you shall receive none.”
0:44 BRUHHHHH THAT WAS A VIOLATION
I mean, that is his name
Thorn and Keely are flipping legends
No greater love than this than to lay down ones life for their friends
HALLELUJAH AMEN ❤️🙏🏾✊🏾
Indeed.
Not their friends, but their brothers
@@Usualrocketjumpingmaniac Depends on the translation. Does anyone have access to the word originally used that would later be translated into brother/friend for this passage?
@@robertphillips213 clones are brothers because they have the same blood and breed in my view
The mission, the nightmares… they’re finally over.
Only time I’ve seen them surrender without a commander ordering them to is when the republic loses in Star Wars battlefront 2, even then I don’t think it actually shows them surrendering I think it just shows them captured
yes as we saw with echo the clones are probably told (not conditioned) if they are captured they will most certainly be tortured for information
I don't think it's a loyalty thing, entirely. It's partly just Jango. He was a flawed man that would break before he would ever bend, so having the Kaminoans emphasize whatever part of Jango that is a sociopath that will rather die than lose makes sense to me. How they develop as individuals might change it. If they surrender, it's because they have a plan to break out already.
As a Canadian I like the added use of the Canadian military examples in the last few episodes.
Love to fight another day boys, live to fight another day. Truly one of the saddest death lines I’ve ever heard. 😢 😭
This reminds me of something I saw on a WWII channel where they were talking about a meeting of the Japanese Supreme War Council shortly before the end of the war. This meeting took place AFTER almost the entire Japanese fleet had been sunk, AFTER the Japanese air force had been reduced to Kamikaze attacks, AFTER American bombing had essentially destroyed all Japanese industry (and many Japanese cities and civilians - war sucks), and AFTER one atomic bomb had already been dropped on Japan. At this meeting the Japanese Minister of War Korechika Anami said it was far too early to surrender because, according to him: JAPAN COULD STILL WIN THE WAR. So... yeah. Maybe sometimes being a bit out of touch with reality is part of the decision making process.
Allen's filming at night because they're on his trail for the "Definitely not Ewok" meat
😂
If we weren't meant to eat Ewoks, they wouldn't be made of meat.
"... the Jedi were complicit in their deaths..."
Lucius once again showing, not telling, that the Jedi of the late Republic were not the Good Guys. The order had fallen from the high republic years.
In my former line of work I have been in multiple firefights and have been shot twice on two different occasions and stabbed and cut many more and I can tell you something comes over you where you still have fear but you can put it behind you and keep fighting because you want to live and if you let the fear take over you then you are done. You just keep fighting until one side wins and hopefully it's you.
It Feels Crazy to be this Early
That's because it is crazy. The bat shit kind of crazy.
Real
It's simple really.
They were taught to never surrender. Ordered to, if you will...
And good soldiers follow orders...
In battlefront 2 on naboo you can see clones that have surrendered when you spawn as a droid
Great video
All clones are worthy to Valhalla 🫡
I woulda been so mad if you didn’t include that scene with heavy great job
I think also came some what came down to leadership on bothsides while partially think to with how the battle droids were programed. I typically would suspect standard B1s to be more open to taking clones prisoners or even surrendering themeselves and or B1 commanders trying to pull a fast one to save his own processor by pointing to one his subordinates saying hes actually the game you want him clones. When he clearly has the gold/yellow paint markings to indicate that he is the commander. However though the B1s that probably enjoyed killing crews of escapes were under the direct command of General Greivious and with His secret warship the Malevance or Soviegn class heavy cruiser he needed to have no witnesses so he could cause havoc on the republic navy with prisoners it poses a security risk of having element of suprise disappear. Plus General Greivous was an absolute Physcopath that often murdered his own droids to make a point of why hes in charge and surrounded by a bunch of incompetant and whinny little shits from his perspective when even the B1s do have legimate and warranted concerns from time to time.
So the ones definitely under General Grevious probably might kill clones out their own frustation that General Grevious didn't give a dam about them or out of fearing his wrath because if they killed clones taking an objective and what not some of the B1s might think we fought with some honour and competance today that we will General Grevious on less reason to scrap us.
I feel that B2 Super Battle Droids might open to taking prisoners to but they also have tendency lumber along and fill clones with reapting blaster fire or simply punch them to death once they get close at in the clone wars show that just seem be more simple minded task oriented to. So again if a say tactical droid instructed them to take prisoners they might or willingly if they take on some form a defacto leadership. Droidkeas having been built by the collocudes would require oversite by a commander or have some additional program software to allow for taking prisoners. As they were meant to be cold ruthless killing machines much like the insectoid race that built them.
Commando Droids probably would be the most likely to take prisoners as often smaller numbers allow for capture high value targets for the CIS and it probably would be common type of mission for them like say be instructed to capture Captain Rex or Commander basically high ranking commanders that could through entire clone battlions and legions in dissarry with its leadership and tactics.
As for IG 100 Magna guards they were typically task with protecting General Grevious so the only likely hood they would take clone prisoners if a small commando squad or ark trooper platoon tried to either assassinate or take the commander of the droid army captive themselves and successfully incapacity either all or some of their members.
But some of trolling Obi wan and Anakin didn't help either with using bluff or decietful surrenders to win the battles in the end. Chances are if the seperatists had a more merciful commander then they would try take clone prisoners and possibly try to find away to accomadte them as best they could with what little resources would have for organic soldiers. Provided some clones would be willing to. But its safe to if General Grevious Himself the commander of all the cis forces only second to count dooku then your chances are practically zero for a surrendering clone. Grevious was ruthless and cold hearted killing machine thats what made him dangerous in his prime as a cyborg. But this was a guy who would punch a droids head off for simply being a terrible shot as a gunner or slice in half for explaining they need to go into sleep mode recharge their batteries. But some more Jr commander and even a tactical droid commander their is a strong possiblity it could happen if said clones were willing to be captured to.
Droids don't take prisoners, nor do they offer any opportunity to surrender. The best example of this is the deliberate destruction of escape pods from Plo Koon's cruiser after it got EMPed by Malevolence.
That is not a great example as the Malevolence was a secret weapon intended to leave no survivors. They didn’t have a choice.
Battle of Mon Cala they took prisoners almost an entire battalion all be it those were aqua droids
Battle of Teth took Rex
@@Ash_of_fireXD The survivors were conveniently containerized and could've been easily captured and held aboard Malevolence, brought aboard with the same EVA operation used to space them.
Also the EVA droids were literally singing as they spaced the clones. They *enjoyed* murdering the clones.
Thorn went out like such a badass, respect
Leave no one behind....don't get caught behind the line mentality 💯%!
“Do we take prisoners?”
B1 Droid
“I don’t.”
Hevy
Easily my favorite clone moment
Honestly had you not called ima gon di “I’m gonna die” I would’ve left video immediately.😂
Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice.
-me, maybe
It's actually Hitchens razor
@@michaeledmunds7056 I was hoping someone would point me to where this came from. While not the exact same wording, the principle is pretty similar. I still can't remember if I made it up myself or heard it somewhere. :P I mostly use it in the context here.. everyone assumes people are being mean, evil, or malicious, when it's much more likely they just don't know.
I think the capacity to surrender would be too much initiative for the Kaminoans to tolerate Like in the season with that squad that failed training on Kamino and had to learn to work together, one of them tried to surrender lol.
Boys (and girls). Star Wars the Clone Wars movie. Captain Rex. Surrendered
Also Battle of Mon Cala (as some other people pointed out)
What I want to know is, what is the lore behind Alan hating dolphins???
He had an unpleasant experience once with the 2nd most intelligent species on the planet, something to do with probes and certain parts of his anatomy, it's understandable...
But his hatred of Ewoks has No justification !
Before watching the video, my guess is this. Clones never surrender, and one of the reasons is that Droids don't take POW's. They will take civies prisoner, but not enemy combatants. Unless it's a Jedi.
I was going to touch on the logistics of CIS droid units capturing GAR units, but you got most of it. I'd assume that if the particular CIS unit was the right kind of organics, then surrender would be more palatable. I'd also assume most of Grievous' campaigns didn't plan on POWs.
I’ve seen a few clone surrendering over the clone wars series. I mean Rex to surrendered in the battle of teth in the clone wars movie
The thumbnail is hard asf ngl
"Captain Keeli and Jedi Im gonna die" Is the best part
To be fair to the CIS, regarding the amount of food/medical equipment they'd have, while it wouldn't likely be as plentiful as with the Republic, they'd certainly have some. The CIS had lots of PDF forces that fought for them when their home planets defected to the CIS, not to mention organic crew on ships, so they for sure had some.
“You can’t be asking us to turn tail and run”- Rex on Geonosis
They were indoctrinated to not give up. But there is a scene in a season 1 intro and on mon Cala where clones surrendered.
Also the droids had orders to wipe out all clones.
Great, now you have me feeling bad for clankers.
Well I remember a member from domino squad saying “I surrender x2” but idk if that should count because it’s just a citadel simulation on kamino
@10:55 Hanlon's Razor :D
Love all the references to the Canadian Army during both World Wars.
In Battlefront II's supremacy gamemode you get a cutscene of droids rounding up surrendered clone POWs if the republic team loses the battle
Hearing a Droid scream 🤖 *”Oh My God!”* is peak comedy 😂💀
Great vid
Let’s be real even if the droids did kill you for surrendering, and making it home you’re only in for kaninoan “reeducation”. So ya fighting to the end seems like the best option
I remember in the original Clone Wars of '03, there's a scene where clones actually surrendered. It should be early season 2
Ever played star wars battlefield 2? The newest and all that.
I always felt a bit weirded out how when the republic wins, they quite literally execute the droids in the background, while if the separatists win they take the clones as POWs.
I don't know, just felt weird, I seen a few droids "convey" fear and regret. Even sometimes sadness. So always felt weird that they decide to just have the clones execute the droids in the background of "REPUBLIC VICTORY"
Well have you ever seen a droid asking to surrender?
Though I still think its rediculous when you count all the war crimes the republic commited against droid armies.
Now can you commit war crimes against a droid army?
Any canadians here?
I seem to remember droids asking for a surrender from Jedi, but not a pure clone force. I suspect their programming accounts for the idea that Jedi are either Generals or Commanders that may have vital information or are considered Grievous' prey.
Droids are machines, capturing a B1 is the same as capturing a Vulture Droid, they're enemy machinery not prisoners
Canadian here, you can’t commit war crimes towards weapons and battle droids are more so weapons than combatants. If you “capture” an enemy’s rifle and slowly carve letters onto it, you’re not getting charged with mutilation or if you capture a tank and toss a demotion charge into it, you’re not getting charged with wrongful execution
Does battlefront 2 count? In the naboo section you see surrendered clones being lined up.
Great video! One point I'd like to add it: Why would the CIS even take clomes prisoners? Clones would likely not be the most obedient captives towards those they are consider their enemies. Meaning you the CIS likely wouldn't be able to use thrm as labour slaves.
Prisoner exchange is also off the table for obvious reason. And simce even the Republic itself didn't recognize clones as actual humans, the CIS also have no reason to take prisoners to avoid public outcry for not doing so
no retreat no surrender
There is a still in Star Wars the Clone Wars 2003, where clones are surrounded and they surrender. You can find the clip from TH-cam by searcing "Separatist invasion, Star Wars the Clone Wars 2003" at 0:55 sek mark.
Not canon
A member of Domino Squad tried to surrender during the final test at the Kamino training facility. I forgot who it was exactly.
seeing how the IJA saw surrendering, it makes sense that these clones are capable of not surrendering
Yes, we have seen clone troopers surrender before (although I have no examples to bring up at the time of writing this comment) but because of how the separatists handle POW's and how the clones think, the majority of them consider fighting to the death or fleeing if possible to be the only logical options
Droid- "Do we take prisoners?"
Hevy- "I Dont!"
He's usually the first comment I ever would see and It's nice... Sooo keep It up mate and Don let Nothing get you Down, NIETHER OF Y'ALL...GOD Loves you and HE sees you never quit But Pursue JESUS Because HE Pursues you
The whole time, my mind was debating between whether that was cotton candy or an old sock on his microphone.
Hahaha funnily enough i use socks on my microphone as i'm in a noisy environment and it helps, my mic picks up noise from all directions unfortunately.
I should create a clone army of Allen to fight the Dolphin empire
Yes the clones could but you're gambling on weather your opponent is in the taking prisoners mood I'd doubt someone like Greivious would be merciful
So did we just forget about Episode 1 where the B1s were even more efficient and ruthless, they literally demand the Gungangs to surrender. Or the Droids in the Hangar when the party makes their escape, their first course of action is trying to arrest them. Though it probably is rather situational with the droids, and in most cases you probably shouldn't try and reason with them. You may get lucky with a B1, as they weren't meant as pure battle droids, they are more like pawns, that you can hand a weapon to shoot at something, but they are more general purpose worker droids, like they are capable of piloting ships and tanks and do stuff like maintenance, they were made to be the main workforce on trade federation ships. While most other droids in the separatist army are purely combat oriented, and accordingly have a fairly simple mindset.
Number 5 is alive 👍
Ayooo 0:43 Jedi Master I’m gonna die. Yo friendly fire bro, friendly fire. 💀😂
It's always easy to be an armchair quarterback.
Thanks Alan👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
B1 Droid - "Do we take prisoners?"
Heavy - "I don't"
*Activates Detonator*
Kenobi ruins the theory obi wan 's frame of reference for imperial troops was clone troopers
I mean, he was probably able to look back and compare his troops under Cody vs the more modern stormtroopers and just feeling sorrow over how little personality and "humanity" the stormtroopers had.
Ironic, considering how most people thought of the clones as just meat droids.
Hope you are doing well! ❤
The Jedi who used form 5 and 3 should use extra durable shields and use more force jumps to evade, or use a ranged tool; the melee units and ranged clones should stay afar, the jedi that can't get close should leap across the battlefield like mace windu for repositioning, instead of standing thier ground if the attacker against the jedi and clones are droids, leaping to the side or back is ok.
In regards to Allied paratroopers, I'll just say the name Jake "McNasty" McNiece
Imgonnadie! It took me until the second time you said it to notice that wasn't his name and what you were saying. I'm a little slow sometimes lol
Actually there was one instance of clones surrendering and becoming POWs on Mon Cala
I was always figured there were combat drugs involved in there somewhere. You're squad is dead, you have half a charge pack in your main blaster, your sidearm, a vibroknife and no chance of winning. Time for 1cc of whatever passes for PCP in Star Wars and seeing how many droid servants we can rack up for the afterlife in Clone Valhalla.
Droid servants in Clone Valhalla? 😂😂😂
"Did the Clone Troopers of the Grand Army ever surrendur?" They might've, but then Kenobi committed several war crimes such as violating the white flag of parlay by knowingly commanding/allowing a sneak attack while negotiating a conditional surrender, ensuring no Republic General, Officer, or Trooper would ever have their word accepted, displaying how far the Jedi and the Republic had fallen, also serving to highly the incredible stupidity of even normally wise Jedi Knights when they were granted extremely high rankings despite having no experience, understanding, or education in battle tactics, war strategies, the Rules of War, field command; not even logistics.
The Jedi Order had gone downhill since their victory over Kaan and his Sith Brotherhood on Ruusan, their Knights and the teachings of their Order in the millenium since the days when the Army of Light were all that stood against the darkness and when the Republic was but a few hundred Star Systems in the Core after losing the rest of the galaxy to either the Brotherhood of Darkness or the Hutt Cartels. Back then, the Republic as a galactic power had lost all influence and resources with the Senate being disbanded due to the lack of Senators and member world. For protection, powerful systems offered Jedi housing, supplies, titles, and even planets in return for their service in protecting them or in leading/training their people, yet the Jedi, too, had lost much in the centuries of continual war and by Hoth's era the Jedi High Council/Council of First Knowledge had lost the majority of their seated councillers with most Jedi scattered across the galaxy.
This is why Hoth held the title "Jedi Lord", but even at their weakenest, even when forced to draft Force Sensitive children for lack of numbers, the Army of Light was vastly greater in number than the mere 10,000 populatin limit later imposed upon the Jedi by the Ruusan Reformation; legions of Jedi wearing Force embued armor fighting in perfect coordination thanks to the nature of the Light Side and Battle Meditation.
Jedi in those days didn't hold loyalty to any one system of governance, let alone one that had proven a failure dozens of times over in their inability to provide their member systems' protection or even supply them with logistics view non-sensitive Grunts. It was the Ruusan Reforemation that castrated the Jedi: no armor was allowed, no families (the Jedi had played with the No Families thing off and on for a very long time), no posessions (so they had to forsake titles and planets because the Republic was terrified they'd never manage to recover after the Jedi proved even more adept at governing than the Republic had ever been), and only one weapon----the lightsaber, a 10,000 member populating cap, and the ordered disbandonment of all naval military ships.
Kenobi, in his ignorance of military history, failured to realize that he doomed far more Troopers to certain death than he had managed to save on through victory or spared among your enemy.
🤔 . . . I’m pretty sure that surrender is built upon the situation at hand. For example, if an enemy can become a potential ally, i.e. the Talz being a great example of such a hypothetical scenario, then surrendering in order to gain the allegiance of an enemy’s enemy was encouraged. However, in cases or situations where in which they’re labeled as 111% enemy (couldn’t think of a better phrase & such), then surrendering was often seen as frowned upon. What ultimately mattered was defeating the enemy, or even achieving a successful mission; if surrendering will ultimately achieve that end goal, then so be it, but if it can’t don’t…
nice video
The droids were sentient
Hey Bro! What do you think about Assasination plots on Palpatine during the war? Can you cover that in a what if? Like what happens to the Clone wars if his manipulation ended abruptly when General Grievous went to take palpatine but instead grevious just killed palpatine
Well they came from Jango Fett's genetic template-a skilled and highly respected Mandolorian and were trained by other Mandolorians and other highly skilled trainers that recognized and appreciated their culture, fighting prowase and history! So not a far stretch to think they repeatedly saw and heard so many-even their brother 99 that many judged was defective-only to watch him and many others give their lives and fight honorably as brothers to complete their mission even if it meant they would die!!
Just like the many soldiers who serve in US special forces units, the Marine Corps and other elite forces around the world.
A disabled US Army Veteran
I have a question. Would the clones be able to practice religion or would that be something they are programmed not to adopt.
I can't recall the battle droids ever taking prisoners on their own, my assumption is that they were programmed to kill everyone unless otherwise ordered. The only time the sepertist take prisoners is when one of the organic officers says to do so, and this is only for important targets like certain jedi and high ranking republic officers, and the men who accompanied them. Otherwise lower ranking clones and officers were left to the "mercy" of the droids which was just shooting them.
what about the time in the citadell, where thy are taken to the command place and are threatend to be shot one by one?
nevermind. wrote it at a start
I believe many of them just saw it as the better way to go out. They often had the chance to escape but staying and dying would make them stand out and just end the mission, the nightmares. Dying was both the most bravest and honourable thing according to their collective ideology, kinda like the Japanese.
The one droid found out that there was no god.
Honestly depends on the droids. B1s might not be outright bloodthirsty. The B2s and Bx's most definitely enjoy malicious slaughter. Which would cause B1s to follow suite out of peer pressure anyway
It can't be emphasized enough. In the realm of combat effectiveness, clone troopers are second to none. They started the Clone Wars outnumbered 10:1, at a generous estimate. The average clone trooper is a SOF, and the best are at Master Chief level
Please make a video on 200 First Order Stormtroopers vs 200 Clone Troopers