@@minaguirguis8897 It sounds like it's not a limitation of power. Moreso the CVT Transmission which every new Subaru has. So i imagine they're all this way.
@toulouse666 Interesting. Well it's still an issue and Subaru needs to fix it. I agree this test is a little extreme but at the same time Subaru advertises their cars to be capable like this. Driving backroad trails, etc. My aunt drives a Crosstrek and complains about the same thing in the winter getting up her driveway with snow tires. The car bogs down without momentum. I just sent her this video lol. I can't wait to see TFLCar test this outback in the winter.
On the "stage two" hill when the Jeep was off camber and spinning the tires, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation you can actually set the e-brake a lil bit and ride the front brakes just enough and it will make the tires that were not spinning spin! Most of the time it does anyway. Just a tip if anyone didn't know!
Great review guys! I do own a 2016 Outback and a tradition full size truck with a low range 4x4 system. The truck can glide over things I cant even walk up but the Subi does have some strengths. The subi is great on ice, slush, sand and slick hard pack wet clay but it cant do much once a wheel is lifted. In the owners manual is says it is not an all terrain vehicle, it is a passenger car with some off road capability, which it is, and was proved in this video. Thanks again for the review!
I have a 2015 Outback and a 2015 F-150 FX4. The little offroading that I've done in the Outback, it's done well. That being said, I'd much rather have my truck's low range and locking rear diff. The Outback is awesome in the wet and snow though. Honestly, Subaru never really said they made rock crawlers. They make safe cars and crossovers that will drive over what most people would ever need to drive over. I do miss my 2004 Forester XT. I had a manual and it would split power 50/50. It was surprisingly good offroad. Terrible on gas mileage though.
True, the Suby is great for people like me who live in the city and only come in contact with snow for about 5 months a year. If I needed to ever drive off a paved road consistently, I would be buying a true 4x4 vehicle.
Yup. These types are cars are awesome in the winter. My '07 XC70 is WAY better than my old Grand Cherokee on 31" Duratracs was in the snow (and those are great snow tires) on the road. Of course when the snow got to be over a foot deep the Jeep would do better, but on slush, ice, and packed snow, the Volvo is a tank in the snow. Last winter I needed to head out before the plows had been by, the snow was slightly higher than the bottom of the Volvo, and I still made it off my street.
I agree I live in Atlantic Canada where we can get some pretty decent snow storms. I own a 2012 Forester and 2015 Tacoma. I like the Subaru for snow pack and ice roads. When we get blizzards 40 CM+ I take the Tacoma though as I tend to get hung up in big drifts and snow plow ridges in the Forester. Both vehicles have their roles.
Probably 99% of Subbie buyers would never rock climb, lets be honest.They work really well in snow, the very reason they sell very well in snow country.I bought one living in the snowless south, comfort, dependability, gas mileage, cargo capacity and price made my choice. Not, off-roading.
They didn't get stuck on rocks. They got stuck on a dirt trail that looks just like Subaru Outback's marketing photos in which we're told it is "built to take you places you've never been". Not so much, Subaru, not so much. www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
Subaru automatic transmissions SUCK!! If you want to buy Subaru buy a standard transmission. Mine blew at 100k fixing it costs more than the car itself.
Yeah, I feel like they've become like Top Gear was (and probably still is), where there is a predetermined script or conclusion they are trying to follow, and the tests aren't objective at all
I had a 1976 Subaru station wagon 4WD and can tell you it was one tough built car. It had a small engine but it did pretty well. Big problem was ground clearance going off road, it's more of an all around street and useful car for rough roads,
This is an honest review. I purchased the Forester with the CVT and X-Mode was very disappointing. Subaru really messed up their platform by selling the turbo forester only in CVT without a stick. They actually perform better turning X-Mode and traction control off. Older Forester XTs perform better off road than the newer J models. Get this fixed Subaru...
Its hill holder. Even with automatics, they roll back on really steep hills. This engages the parking brake until you give it gas, then releases the brake so you can drive forward.
The style of the body might be different but the drive train of the eagle was basii identical to that of a jeep. It had an AMC derived straight six Spicer axles and a transfer case. Exactly like a jeep
I had one of those super ugly AMC Eagles. Sure was fun to drive but gave me far more trouble in breaking down then any of my several Cherokees ever gave me. I still love the 1996 Cherokee and the 2001 I have but as modified as they are, neither can stack up to my Lexus LX 470 (100 series Land Cruiser).
I for one, as a huge Subaru fan, loved this video. It really demonstrates the advantages of a real 4x4 system that you can't get anywhere else, but also shows that Subaru's AWD is fully capable in plenty of moderate off-road situations. Something people don't understand is that Subaru doesn't make the claim that their cars are meant for heavy duty off-roading. Keeping that in mind, the test shows exactly what is promised, and maybe moreso. The downsides of an AWD system vs. a 4x4 system are then positives for 85% of folks when on pavement. But I do want a classic Cherokee now...
In the manual , they carefully say ALL ROAD cars, not OFF ROAD. It would have no issues going up the hill with a high torque cvt, where the engine isn't restricted. On the base models they clearly kill the engine power by software to protect the transmission. You can hear it isn't revving past 1500rpm and at 1500rpm that base engine has as much torque as a pencil sharpener.
Lots of people keep saying that Subaru doesn’t claim that their vehicles are true off roaders. What about this video, clearly endorsed by Subaru? th-cam.com/video/fofs6HcEO0U/w-d-xo.html
This isn't "heavy duty off roading" especially here in Colorado. This video was a waste of time...He didn't want the Subie to make it up that little hill.
Amado Rodriguez : All very fair points. I didn’t know that the Forester was considered “much better” for off-roading than the Outback. My sense was that people claim them both to be equal. And I don’t know enough about the courses depicted in these videos to say whether one is more difficult than the other. But the rhetoric in the Forester video is clearly “Wow-this car can do nearly everything that those Jeeps can.”
So none had cvt makes sense. But also all 4 wheel drive. And AWD vehicles seem to be getting watered down in favor of these companies saving a few dollars. So they save you still pay and you pay your hard earned money on inferior parts making up that vehicle. These big brands are starting to coast on old brand recognition and stature. It’s bs..
aarynj jeeps needs always some extra changes before going to the real shit is the reason Subaru is the first AWD and the 1 place 4x4 go max 35 mph when AWD go max
I own a 4runner that I wheel a good bit. I also own a 6 speed Forester. We camp out of our Forester. In the sand, shallow slick mud, snow and ice, and loose gravel, my forester does amazingly well. They're traction system is top notch. In anything with steep climbs, deep mud, rocks, or big washes, I climb in that 4runner every time. The Subarus are built well, and will go a lot of places a Camry or Accord won't, but they're not built for the same purpose as the Cherokee.
Ppl HATED on you guys last time yelling you didnt turn traction control off. Not much left to say now on that. The Outback just doesnt have that extra kick.
Thats the point - it still behaved exactly the same anyways. I was led to believe these were more spacious and could compete offroad with a cherokee trailhawk. They may be more spacious and better on gas, but no way do they come close to the same offroad capacity.
The problem they have is that it's not a manual. The automatics pull power in situations like this when with a manual the computer sure as shit won't control that if you have all assist off. If they were to take a lifted wrx or sti up that it'd rock socks no issue. They're using the wrong vehicle.
@@rktrumble X-Mode is hurting this test. X-Mode is perfect for ice, but any slippage will cause traction control to be on steroids.Try again without X-mode in scenarios like this.
I specifically logged in to make this comment. My parents had one. Other than it being orange, it was awesome. I'd hoped to inherit it when I turned 16 but dad didn't hold on to it for me.
Gen 2 or a Gen 3 would be good. I have a 2000 4Runner but always liked, and still do like the XJ. One of the last great Jeeps made IMO. Both the T4R and XJ hold their value well when they're in good condition.
What makes a crossover is unibody. 4runner is a body on frame truck. I can say primary rear wheel drive is a 4x4 and primary front wheel drive is a all wheel drive, so yes, not a fair comparison.
I live in Colorado and recently purchased a 1986 Cherokee with a 2.5 inline 4 cyl. Took some extra cash to fix some problems, but, it has its original paint job! Not rusted at all. I love it!!
@@scottkinney2608 I have a 2001, and a 1996, as well as an 06 Wrangler 4 popper. Love them all for different reasons. Even my little 2.4ltr 06 could have run circles around that POS of a tin can. And my Cherokees would have just kept on going up hill!
You guys should test an old AWD Subaru wagon from the 80’s. We had one growing up and it was a beast on old New Mexico mountain trails. Once pulled a big Bronco out of the deep snow.
this video saved me from buying a new Subaru. i LITERALLY had planned to get one innthe next two weeks, but not after seeing this & doing some research on cvt. thx guys!
CVT works beautifully on inclines, snow, and beach sand. Change trans oil if doing a lot of trail or sand, and it goes and goes. The guys that made this were not driving well at all.
This was the old version of X-Mode and they were intentionally putting into a situation where it wouldn't work. Subaru now has the dual mode X-Mode that works totally fine and did when you commented. They were also demanding too much torque split to be realistic from a 180hp motor to get out of those situations, the new Outback and Forester have 310hp models to avoid this exact thing.
And they need to do the locking center diff switch mod. No new parts required, just a switch to trick the front/rear balance system to lock the center diff. Without that Subaru's aren't much use offroad(and they can seriously damage equipment in the transmission with wheelspin which happens when you don't have the switch mod)
I feel like it would have been more fair if you used an Outback with the 3.6 H6 and not the 2.5. Also the gen of Outback before this one, with the 3.6H came with a 5 speed auto and not a CVT.
Dan what’s you point? I’m saying the comparison is not fair because of the engine displacement. Either use a 2.5 i4 XJ vs 2.5 i4 outback, or use 4.0 i6 XJ vs 3.6 h6 outback. Does that make sense?
Tires: These tires are not comparable (hey kid (I apologize for the 'kid' label, but I couldn't remember his name) similar size does not mean that they perform the same off-road). Yes they are both All Season tires but that is where the similarities end, and yes they are both aggressive but for different reasons/uses. The Jeep is using Michelin LTX Defender M/S (mud/snow) Highway All Seasons made for on-road and light off-road use (made for gravel, mud, snow). The Subaru is using Bridgestone Dueler H/P (highway/passenger) Sport Touring All Seasons which are made for better street handling and not made for any off-road use. Look at the closeup of the chunky Jeep Michelin tread. No it's not chunky compared to true off-road tread, but much more so than the Subaru Bridgestones. Tire Rack even has off-road ratings for the Michelin LTX Defender M/S tires, it does not have off-road ratings for the Bridgestone Dueler H/P tires (because it is not made for off-road use).
Glenn S You’re not wrong per se but your point is moot. There is no tire tread pattern on this planet that would put the Subaru anywhere near the Jeeps off-road ability.
In the scenario of this video, tires really don't matter that much. They're on pretty solid dirt, providing good traction. Now, if they were going through some loose packed sugar sand or mud, then the tires would really come into play. I've gone through stuff worse than they did with completely bald tires on my Cherokee and didn't have too many issues.
However, if they didn't turn traction control off, this is what happens. It powers through fine if you turn off TC. There are plenty of videos out there that show you how to drive these cars.
@@KeyboardWarrior101st I think Subaru is clear that their traction controls are designed more for inclimate weather. Not for mountains and rock climbing. But disable it completely and I bet you have a completely different animal.
Not sure if anybody answered your question yet, but "that button" in the Subaru engages a parking brake-based hill start assist. It works quite well on uneven terrain. I used it a lot in a rental Outback in Wyoming - whenever you stop on uneven terrain and remain stopped for a couple seconds, the hill start assist engages the parking brake (it seemed like a four-wheel parking brake) to keep the car stationary without having to shift into park which would obviously stress the transmission. On tough terrain I would actually leave the car running and get out with the hill start assist engaged to survey my surroundings. The car just sat there with the parking brake engaged. I didn't get a good idea of how to disengage it though - sometimes it would automatically disengage when I pressed the throttle again, but I believe on steeper hills it actually requires you to hold the service brake and disengage the parking brake manually.
You've got a selc-trac transfer case. Those are rare as hell on an XJ. The full-time 4x4 can be used on pavement because it doesn't lock the center diff. That's a super nice jeep. It ought to be in a museum. I hope you take care of it.
Actually, the CVT has been shown (on the forums) to be the better choice for offroading. The CVT gives you a better (lower) gear, and the clutch on the manual just isn't up to tougher climbing situations.
15:44 - what is happening here is quite simple. The outback has a feature that limits throttle and prevents wheelspin which is on by default. There is a button that looks like it disables anti-skid , but what it really does is allow for wheelspin. I have a 2015 outback myself and believe me , this little obstacle is nothing. Put the CVT in first "gear" (yes , really), enable X-mode (or try without) and disable VDC (anti-skid) and it should get up that bit easily..... Traction control can't be off unless it works differently on newer Outbacks.
Thanks Svein, this sounds like the answer. To be honest, a bit surprised the TFL guys weren't a bit more buttoned up with the comparison test. That said, the video was still entertaining.
That button next to xmode is called Hill Hold Assist. It's so you don't roll back when transitioning foot from brake to gas. Only is active when on an incline.
No.. the xj is not a cross over.. it’s a light truck... jeep even made a truck version of the xj called the mj Comanche... same chassis literally just with a bed on the back... it’s a truck... not a cross over... also another reason it’s a truck... it’s straight axle front and rear, uses leaf strings, does not use a transaxle with a Center differential.. the jeep uses a linear engine with a trans and transfer case ... in no way shape or form is the jeep a cross over...it’s in the light truck suv category
I’m confused about what a truck is? How? I’m not going off of weather is has a bed or not.. the manufactures class this vehicle as a light truck/suv.... also why the mj and xj are based off of the same platform ( yes the mj truck is a unibody) I have owned one... it’s a truck ... with a bed
I have a 2018 OB 3.6 and took a rural coastal dirt road for over 20 miles that were in far worse conditions than this ... it performed AMAZINGLY well. We could have used a couple more inches of clearance for less stress but we never high-centered. A true test would be a 3.6 not a 4 cylinder IMO. Next try the 3.6. I'm getting an average of 25 mpg and live in a rural coastal village on windy roads. I LOVE my Subaru
The original "sport utility wagon" was the AMC EAGLE, which was an all wheel drive, unibody vehicle - AMC was very early out of the gate with unibodies and what they learned directly led to the AMC "XJ" Cherokee and Wagoneer. They also made a cool SX4 2-door.
I disagree with some of the statements in the video. The cars are not the same. The Jeep has two big advantages - suspension and angles. Not sure, but on this course gearing is not an issue for the Subie. It is an auto with a torque converter that can give you torque multiplication of at least factor of two. You just need to step on the gas. As to the awd/4wd systems the Subaru has much better torque distribution system. The XJ is a dead vehicle with two wheels in the air ( open riffs and 231 transfer case). Also, if you test the two cars on slippery roads (ice and snow) the Subary with its electronically control multiplate clutch-based system will destroy the Jeep. I would recommend to the authors digging deeper into some physics books. Most of the comments in the video make no sense. However, it is clear that they have invested a lot of resources, so credit for that.
" Also, if you test the two cars on slippery roads (ice and snow) the Subary with its electronically control multiplate clutch-based system will destroy the Jeep." Modern Subarus still use the old open differential or at best limited slip differentials. Those are inferior to torque vectoring (Acura SH-AWD) and locking differentials (Mercedes G wagon) which do not require a loss of traction in order to transfer power. Once traction is loss, you're dealing with kinetic friction instead of static friction...and kinetic friction is always less than static friction hence you get less traction when you need it most.
You should not need to give a vehicle a ton of gas when off roading, it's an easy way to lose control or traction. Gearing is an issue, the Subaru Lacks any real gears and Cvt's are known to have weak take offs. That's a reason why new Toyotas come with a take off gear. You want the right balance of torque and gearing to have a good start, when off roading. The CVT just isn't cable to off road well.
Next time PLEASE PROVE you have turned off the traction control. My 2010 forester 5sp manual acted just like this until you push the button (which is says to do in the manual when off road) then it will climb up a brick wall. Very capable SOFT ROADER.
I had a XJ for 6 years, a WJ for 2 years (still have it) And I bought a new 17 Outback, I can say in SNOW and slippery stuff where Gear Ratio and etc doesn't matter, the Subaru is hands down more capable. For hills and ruts and more off-road stuff, the Jeeps are better for sure. But TFL cannot seem to spin the tires in the Outback... I can spin the tires with traction control turned OFF. This is just weird seeing this.
I think they should turn off Xmod, or maybe disable the traction control after enabling Xmod. i don't know also for me it looks strange. But it's also a new car, maybe is a break-in period and the car is tuned less aggressively.
Yeah something is not right, I have one and have wheeled it pretty good. Maybe they need to find a local Subaru guru to show them how to drive it. Because of the "whatever this button is", that makes the test results invalid.
Next time Im out in the sticks with Scoobie... Im going to see what x-mode vs non x-mode really does. I'm pretty sure X-Mode just acted a bit more like hill descent control and let the CVT rev higher at slower speeds. It might be messing with traction control as well.
If you apply slight break pressure while your differentials are slipping (peg legging) it will help transfer power to the tires slipping, this has helped me out many times with open diffs.
No need. The Subaru just doesn't have the torque at the proper rpm mated to a transmission that would pass it to the wheels. That engine and drivetrain are garbage.
How about the AMC Eagle as among the first SUV's! Also when spinning a tire off camber with an open diff, use the brakes with more gas! It might help! As for the subaru it might take longer for the computer to sort things out without without fiddeling with everything else?
That's actually how x mode works. The reason the tires in the air are not spinning is the x mode system is applying the brakes on those wheels allowing power to transfer to the wheel in contact with the ground. A relatively simple and cheap solution compared to adding a limited slip diff.
This isn’t the first time they’ve butchered on off-road review. They are wannabe off-roaders, probably own new wranglers but don’t actually know anything about off-roading.
Guys, this is a great video. You are both really entertaining and it is obvious that you know and love your car stuff. You are a great pair together. And stage 3 is a genuine test. Any criticism is just the subaru fanbois and the envious. Thanks for the show.
Turn traction control off, then put it in manual mode and use the paddle shifters. When put in manual mode the pressure on the plates in the cvt is increased. Meaning you will be able to put all the power to the wheels that’s not slipping. When off-roading an outback always remember to turn off traction control and use manual mode!!
THIS IS NOT A CVT ISSUE!!! (The CVT should not be shifting at all with this test.{It should STAY in LOW gear}) Perhaps you should learn a little more about the Subaru AWD system. For example, by sliding the shifter from "D" into "M".. this specifically reprograms the computer to help the vehicle get moving from a stop under low-traction conditions. (higher RPMs, lower gearing, and different AWD algorithm) OH- and I am pretty sure that 'funny button' is the hill-hold feature which uses the parking brake every time you stop on an incline.
toulouse666 Torbo Ascent would help here with the elevation and added power. Also supposidly it can tow up to 5k lbs, vs. this Outback is rated at 1.5 or 2k. So, I'd definetly be interested in seeing what it does. Yet these guys can't get a hold of one without buying it.And I don't think that is happening anytime soon.
toulouse666, I'm well aware of the differences between the Outback and Ascent. You're missing my point. My concern is with a turbo engine and CVT. I'm hesitant to get any vehicle with a turbo because I don't think turbo engines have the longevity of non turbos. And the Ascent is the biggest 3 row crossover Subaru has ever made. This very heavy SUV is propelled with a 4 cylinder engine and it's a brand new engine for Subaru. . I understand Subaru is trying to satisfy EPA fuel economy standards while giving the Subaru competitive towing capacity. But I'm very concerned with a 4 cylinder turbo on this big vehicle. And the problems with CVTs are well known. This test with the Outback only adds to the negative history of CVTs. I had recently read that CVTs have greatly improved. Obviously not. And this particular test was off road. Off road capability was one of the main reasons I was considering the Subaru Ascent. The failure with the CVT in this test was the deciding factor for me eliminating the Ascent from consideration.
thats true but subaru has been doing turbos for much longer that the rest of the industry the main thing is these cars are not meant to go off road, the awd is meant for on road conditions
malavpatel77, Well then you'd better inform Subaru of that. Because every commercial I've ever seen Subaru touts its AWD system in an attempt to appeal to active people encouraging them to take their Subarus off pavement. It's clearly not a rock crawler but every commercial shows a Subaru churning up dirt roads.
Outback is a lifted legacy estate. Somebody parked a outback behind my levorg. The resemblance was more than you could imagine. Still levorg is actually built on the smaller wrx, not the legacy estate.
It snowed 3" a couple of days ago and became unusually slippery. I'm the happy owner of a 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 3.3L with 4wd and a CVT transmission. It got almost all the way up a long driveway/hill and slowed to a stop. I had the pedal floored, the traction control light was flashing, and engine making noises. When I got off the gas and pressed the brake peddle it started sliding back down the hill. I found that ABS and TC don't engage when you're going backwards. This vehicle is surprisingly quick when the engine, and the electric motor, and the 4wd all kick in... on dry or wet! But the Highlander literally cut power to the wheels when I needed it most under snowy icy conditions.
I love to see that father and son share the same taste for cars and outdoors. Wish my kid someday like my own hobbies too. Keep up with the videos I love them.
The biggest problems here were 9000 ft elevation combined with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder. And I get it, the CVT didn’t do anything help either lol. Also... XMode should be off and you probably need to use the “manual” mode for that situation, but maybe still not make it because of power/elevation. My ‘15 Outback with 2.5 liter and A/T tires is hella capable at 3500 ft where I live. That hill at my elevation would be easy peasy. Solid!
For the testing you were planning on it probably would have been a good idea to get the H6 motor, and I wonder how it would have done if you didn't use the X mode and the other button, and just put it in manual mode with the traction control off to see if that would help make it climb?
I was thinking the same thing....H6 vs. I6. Or compare to a 2.5l 4 cylinder Cherokee, same size engine. Let's remember the Cherokee is 300 plus pounds lighter!
Yeah so they should have read the manual, I'll give you that but there's no reason to call them idiots and tell them they have no idea what they are doing. They spend a lot of time and effort creating these videos and I appreciate it more than they know. They aren't off-road experts and I actually like that. It means it's more real world tests. And you know what, the newer video using some of your suggestions the Outback still sucks in that situation. With it's past reputation and what's it's represented to be, I expected a lot more from it. It appears to be engineered poorly and it doesn't hold up to Subaru's presentation. Don't let these childish comments kill your drive to create more videos. Keep doing what you are doing.
I used to do quite a bit of bushwhaking in my old power wagon in my younger days and it was my experience that the only time the low range was an appropriate selection was if you were pulling something extremely heavy. Now in fairness my truck was a four speed manual, but any hill climbing i did successfully was done in four wheel high, the low range option just produced way too much torque and thus wheel spin. My old power wagon was an absolute beast for any task asked of it, especially snow plowing with the limited slip differentials front and back, durable and reliable.
I'm sorry, and I know I'll probably get hate for this, I absolutely disagree on many points you make here. These cars were designed for completely different purposes in completely different segments. The Cherokee is NOT a crossover, and the Subaru IS a station wagon with a little more ground clearance. The Cherokee was designed to be fully capable off-road when it was new, and was built to compete with the midsize SUV market with cars like the Bronco and Blazer. It has far more ground clearance, and the torque is all made in mid to low range RPMs, whereas the Subaru is all mid to high - let alone being made by an EJ25 flat-four. And no, the 4.0 did not make 180hp when new - it probably does now, if a bit less, because it came with 193hp since it's the HIgh-Output engine. I can tell you that from curently owning a newer XJ for a while, it cannot be compared to a jumped up estate car, or any modern crossover. Just because it's small doesn't mean that it's in the same segment - proportions have changed, and cars have gotten bigger.
I was told the outback was "built to take me to the place I've never been" so are you saying not so much? Subaru might wanna change their messaging then.www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
It's a slogan, and many crossovers have a similar kind of thing to that. They make the car look and sound like it can go anywhere, and do anything, when really it can only tackle relatively flat gravel roads without difficulty. Subaru isn't the only company doing this, others are too, because they know that nobody's really going to push these cars as far as the companies say they will go.
Actually, can you point out some similar types of slogans? I notice that not many crossovers make such bold claims and present such bold images except for Jeep, and maybe others? But even so, many other crossovers actually make it up this very hill. See TFL's test of the volvo and mitsubishi crossovers.
@@itsjoeman5757 I owned a 96 bronco it is too big for small trails. That being said if the bronco had room it would go anywhere. The jeep is a better size.
Seems to me he is still holding a grudge against Subaru or fears damaging his investment! Both cars did not have the same speed, did not have the same route, and then he suddenly jerked the steering wheel to the left when it was about to make it to stall it. Let's not forget that he is comparing a car (crossover) to a Jeep, which he tries to convince you that it is a car (crossover)!!! I would accept a result from the same driver and a more controlled course, how about that? are you up to the challenge?
Cherokee is an SUV built on a jeep (truck) platform (albeit unibody) up until the car platform based 4-door Compass and Patriot arrived for 2007. The outback was introduced as a wagon on the legacy (car) platform and remained so until today. Later they raised the car and called it a "crossover" or crossover utility vehicle (CUV)
How can you say he's holding a grudge when he bought one? Subies are great in snow, but they're not meant for real off-roading. I used to work on mountain top communication repeaters, and my old solid axle Jeep Grand Cherokee always got me there, though there were times in winter I had to put chains on all four wheels. I'm not sure that the new Grand Cherokees would have the suspension articulation necessary for that, same as the Subaru. Might have to get a Wrangler if I ever do that kind of work again.
I tested these buttons in a rental outback I had for a week. The X-mode is used to get out of snow (it limits wheel spin, similar to starting from 2nd gear. It shuts off by itself after going 20 mph) the second button is for limiting roll back from starting at an incline. Drove 5 people and luggage up San Francisco Hills, Yosemite Park, sequoia national park and Grand Canyon with very steep hills - the car has a lot of power.
X-mode works great downhill as well...It applies the rear parking brake as you travel downhill... I used it in the hilly streets of Eureka Springs Arkansas...
I don't like CVTs, but I have several ATVs with them, along with a geared 5 speed ATV. The CVT is NOT Subaru's main deficiency. The CVT is less a problem compared to the lack of a Hi/Lo range. The CVT would be fine if a Lo range permitted the car to be under load at near stall speed (~1 mph) with the engine running, say 2500 RPM, and then under light load, the CVT would spool up to ~5mph at 2000 RPM . Also, there is no good substitute for locking differentials.
Yep, locking differentials would do the trick. Unfortunately the only Subaru which can simulate them in a driver controlled way is an STI with far less ground clearance. Always wondered how far they could potentially go if Foresters were made like STI's, but with more ground clearance, a snorkel and better off road tires. I remember older atmospheric Subaru Outbacks having a high/low range gear switch of sorts though. Also, honestly, I would probably not use X-Mode for hill climbing, but for level mud or descent. Then again, I may be totally wrong about that. A bit more power and torque ould be nice as well. I have seen Subarus go up slopes like that, but they were driven by experienced off road drivers - not sure how much of a difference that'd make nowadays, but I'd say it will help at least.
Holy crap are Subarus really that bad?!?!?! My 17 year old Wrangler just crawled up more than that last weekend!?!? I'm really glad my mom went with a Toyota instead of that bag of crap! Why would you even buy it if it can't climb a tiny hill?!
Toulouse NO, Outbacks are NOT Imprezas! Go to Subaru.com and seriously read what's what, and note the specifications, they're NOWHERE NEAR being an Impreza! You keep repeating this stupid claim.
That button doesn't make the car role back..if you're on a steep hill,and you let go of the breaks it stays still and wont role back.. Cheers from Yemen
Love your videos guys and THANKS a million. i almost bought a subaru outback as I am in the market. it is YOU guys that saved me from making that HUGE mistake!
The simple fact that they took so much offense at you doing what you do and got BUTTHURT over THEIR car not making it that they won't loan them out while everyone else does. Yeah. I won't even look at a subie now. And it was on the list for the wife's new car.
Agreed. If it was truly about a scratch, make then pay for it ans move on. TFL is Colorado based and thats one of subarus biggest markets. Seems like they are missing out
I'm curious how it would have been between that Cherokee and the 2009-2013 subaru outback/forester which has the four speed automatic instead of the CVT but no X mode.
I've had 6 Subaru Forester and 1 Outback and can say you drive like my grandma..! Put the SUV in manual the 1st gear and push the throttle full down...! Worry about the gear box or engine? Hello it's automatic..!!! Just push..!!! Please the video was good but your drive mode a shame.!
My expectation with my 2014 Outback was to keep me going on the road no matter what and it did very capably. Fantastic for snow and slippery conditions. I would never go to the Outback to climb crappy dirt hills.
I climb crappy dirt hills in my 2005 Forester all the time. My 1983 Subaru wagon (with hi/low range 4wd) took me places most people wouldn’t believe. 1983- before the Cherokee came out. Yes, the Cherokee is a ‘real’ 4wd with a transfer case and solid axles, but it’s not original. It just happens to be better than this particular Subaru on this particular test.
Free Dirt ask the owner of a Subaru with a “the world is flat” sticker on their tailgate and they’ll tell you that their is no better off-road vehicle than a Subaru.
@@rileygallagher4956 there are some good subies out there and it hilarious to see them out do actual 4x4s. The only cvt vehicle that I've driven that was semi decent climbing steep hills off road oddly enough was a 2003 Nissan murano. But that's just what I've driven. Tfl and others have shown cvts under load and low speed tend to overheat alot and have a hard time putting power to the ground... kinda curious if an aftermarket trans cooler would solve the overheating issue on many of those vehicles?
The Jeep has 2 live axles.They are called live axles because they contain drive line components to move the vehicle. Solid axles have no moving parts inside because... they are solid. Think wagon. Solid axles are found at the rear of front wheel drive vehicles and the front of heavy trucks. Put good snow tires on both these vehicles and compare on road in a blizzard. Subaru doesn't build for "off road". Their technology focuses on traction management and stability control on road and they are very good when weather gets very bad
Yes and subaru outback will "take you to the place you've never been" which according to their marketing kind of looks like this dirt road it couldn't take roman up. www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
Hill Start Assist. Essentially it activates the parking brake when you come to a complete stop on an incline, then keeps you from rolling backwards when you start again.
Ya know They do make a 6 cylinder Outback Subaru! So why don't you make it even match and put a 6 cylinder Jeep up against the 6-cylinder Outback? Hello!!
Lack of humility, arrogance in abundance and no vehicle knowledge...these are the qualities, IMHO, that define this young man. More of detriment than a asset.
You Can Also Watch The Original Off-road Outback Video That Subaru Hates Here: th-cam.com/video/hrdb_UVTa20/w-d-xo.html
Why didn't you buy the the more powerful 3.6R?
@@minaguirguis8897 It sounds like it's not a limitation of power. Moreso the CVT Transmission which every new Subaru has. So i imagine they're all this way.
I suspect the button is Hill start assist. Thanks for all your videos (-:
@toulouse666 Interesting. Well it's still an issue and Subaru needs to fix it. I agree this test is a little extreme but at the same time Subaru advertises their cars to be capable like this. Driving backroad trails, etc.
My aunt drives a Crosstrek and complains about the same thing in the winter getting up her driveway with snow tires. The car bogs down without momentum. I just sent her this video lol.
I can't wait to see TFLCar test this outback in the winter.
Subaru doesn’t want you to show the flaw in their cars
*Talks to father through walkie-talkie while simultaneously walking past him and not acknowledging his presence*
millennials....
@@inTruthbyGrace ok boomer
@@dave-ed5li ha heem... that's *_genX'er_* to you.
:)
The up and coming prince doesn't always acknowledge the king and the king doesn't always acknowledge prince either. It's a father/son thing.
@@inTruthbyGrace Tw@ts
I like how they bought the Subaru just to shit on it lol
You guys...are killing me. Literally no one would take those trails that way. Both vehicles could easily makes those hills.
Yea it's really bad.
On the "stage two" hill when the Jeep was off camber and spinning the tires, if you ever find yourself in a similar situation you can actually set the e-brake a lil bit and ride the front brakes just enough and it will make the tires that were not spinning spin! Most of the time it does anyway. Just a tip if anyone didn't know!
That's what Toyota's ATRAC system does to simulate center diff lock.
I dont know why but i love the simplicity of those model jeeps. The one in the video is clean !
They're the perfect size, relatively easy to work on and maintain, and the boxy look... We have two of them and are looking for a third.
I'm jealous
Great review guys! I do own a 2016 Outback and a tradition full size truck with a low range 4x4 system. The truck can glide over things I cant even walk up but the Subi does have some strengths. The subi is great on ice, slush, sand and slick hard pack wet clay but it cant do much once a wheel is lifted. In the owners manual is says it is not an all terrain vehicle, it is a passenger car with some off road capability, which it is, and was proved in this video. Thanks again for the review!
Absolutely! I have a 4x4 truck and a 4x4 Jeep - the Subaru is worlds better than them in the snow
I have a 2015 Outback and a 2015 F-150 FX4. The little offroading that I've done in the Outback, it's done well. That being said, I'd much rather have my truck's low range and locking rear diff. The Outback is awesome in the wet and snow though. Honestly, Subaru never really said they made rock crawlers. They make safe cars and crossovers that will drive over what most people would ever need to drive over. I do miss my 2004 Forester XT. I had a manual and it would split power 50/50. It was surprisingly good offroad. Terrible on gas mileage though.
True, the Suby is great for people like me who live in the city and only come in contact with snow for about 5 months a year. If I needed to ever drive off a paved road consistently, I would be buying a true 4x4 vehicle.
Yup. These types are cars are awesome in the winter. My '07 XC70 is WAY better than my old Grand Cherokee on 31" Duratracs was in the snow (and those are great snow tires) on the road. Of course when the snow got to be over a foot deep the Jeep would do better, but on slush, ice, and packed snow, the Volvo is a tank in the snow. Last winter I needed to head out before the plows had been by, the snow was slightly higher than the bottom of the Volvo, and I still made it off my street.
I agree I live in Atlantic Canada where we can get some pretty decent snow storms. I own a 2012 Forester and 2015 Tacoma. I like the Subaru for snow pack and ice roads. When we get blizzards 40 CM+ I take the Tacoma though as I tend to get hung up in big drifts and snow plow ridges in the Forester. Both vehicles have their roles.
when u turn off traction control press and hold it for 15-30 seconds it'll turn off stability control as well and then you can spin the tires.
No shit, I didn’t know that. Will try that.
They do actually come with a user's manual.
I was going to say the same thing. I think it would make all the difference.
Probably 99% of Subbie buyers would never rock climb, lets be honest.They work really well in snow, the very reason they sell very well in snow country.I bought one living in the snowless south, comfort, dependability, gas mileage, cargo capacity and price made my choice. Not, off-roading.
agreed.. fun to test and try but not a valid test. perhaps the 3.6 engine in this test
They didn't get stuck on rocks. They got stuck on a dirt trail that looks just like Subaru Outback's marketing photos in which we're told it is "built to take you places you've never been". Not so much, Subaru, not so much. www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
Yeah, wtf, the Cherokee has a V6, why not use the 6 cyl Outback
Subaru automatic transmissions SUCK!! If you want to buy Subaru buy a standard transmission. Mine blew at 100k fixing it costs more than the car itself.
Yeah, I feel like they've become like Top Gear was (and probably still is), where there is a predetermined script or conclusion they are trying to follow, and the tests aren't objective at all
Hats off to whoever kept that Jeep so mint all these years.
I also never knew about the dual hood latches...pretty sweet
I had a 1976 Subaru station wagon 4WD and can tell you it was one tough built car. It had a small engine but it did pretty well. Big problem was ground clearance going off road, it's more of an all around street and useful car for rough roads,
This is an honest review. I purchased the Forester with the CVT and X-Mode was very disappointing. Subaru really messed up their platform by selling the turbo forester only in CVT without a stick.
They actually perform better turning X-Mode and traction control off. Older Forester XTs perform better off road than the newer J models. Get this fixed Subaru...
Loved the video. Can't wait to see more videos of the Subaru when it starts snowing. Keep up the great work.
The owners manual knows what that button does...
its called hill hold lol.
@@wax333 wow my 93 Subaru has that but it's automatic I don't need a mysterious button
@@Dankcatvacs
It is still auto that button just turns it off.
RTFM! ;)
Its hill holder. Even with automatics, they roll back on really steep hills. This engages the parking brake until you give it gas, then releases the brake so you can drive forward.
CVT does not belong in a Subaru
Jatco
AKA shatco.
Exactly
Just drove X-Trail with CVT abs garbage
That crap doesnt belong in any vehicle
Manual or bust... literally, get a manual or your transmission will bust lol
I wouldn't call the Cherokee a crossover. Nor the original crossover. The AMC Eagle comes to mind, first produced in 1979 for the 1980 model year
The style of the body might be different but the drive train of the eagle was basii identical to that of a jeep. It had an AMC derived straight six Spicer axles and a transfer case. Exactly like a jeep
I had one of those super ugly AMC Eagles. Sure was fun to drive but gave me far more trouble in breaking down then any of my several Cherokees ever gave me. I still love the 1996 Cherokee and the 2001 I have but as modified as they are, neither can stack up to my Lexus LX 470 (100 series Land Cruiser).
The Eagle was a bucket of rust off the production line.
I’d honestly say the first “true” crossover was like the first gen crv
The Jeep has a transfer case. Not a crossover. Further, the argument for them filling the same market niche is pretty weak I'd say.
I for one, as a huge Subaru fan, loved this video. It really demonstrates the advantages of a real 4x4 system that you can't get anywhere else, but also shows that Subaru's AWD is fully capable in plenty of moderate off-road situations.
Something people don't understand is that Subaru doesn't make the claim that their cars are meant for heavy duty off-roading. Keeping that in mind, the test shows exactly what is promised, and maybe moreso. The downsides of an AWD system vs. a 4x4 system are then positives for 85% of folks when on pavement.
But I do want a classic Cherokee now...
In the manual , they carefully say ALL ROAD cars, not OFF ROAD. It would have no issues going up the hill with a high torque cvt, where the engine isn't restricted. On the base models they clearly kill the engine power by software to protect the transmission. You can hear it isn't revving past 1500rpm and at 1500rpm that base engine has as much torque as a pencil sharpener.
I bet the old Subaru Brat from 2-3 decades ago could make it.
Lots of people keep saying that Subaru doesn’t claim that their vehicles are true off roaders. What about this video, clearly endorsed by Subaru? th-cam.com/video/fofs6HcEO0U/w-d-xo.html
This isn't "heavy duty off roading" especially here in Colorado. This video was a waste of time...He didn't want the Subie to make it up that little hill.
Amado Rodriguez : All very fair points. I didn’t know that the Forester was considered “much better” for off-roading than the Outback. My sense was that people claim them both to be equal. And I don’t know enough about the courses depicted in these videos to say whether one is more difficult than the other. But the rhetoric in the Forester video is clearly “Wow-this car can do nearly everything that those Jeeps can.”
This Jeep took that Subie...Outback :P
LEXUriouS Kirk 👀 i see what you did there
@@Jmanmadness23 😎
😎
Whats up Kirk just subscribed to you yesterday
@@11094DEREK good to see you! I'll have a new video up tonight 😉
I swear your videos make me wanna move to Colorado. Tourism should sponsor your videos.
No vacancy, move along!
It's awesome out here. Life is too short to not live here!
Jimmy Salat there’s always room for freedom. #activedutymilitary #america
@@feliciajoy9814 Oregon is good too
alelx jines wyoming?
I grew up in that area, and I have driven several generations of Subaru’s up that trail and many tougher trails.
yeah these guys are mental
Did any of them have CVT transmissions
Yeah CVT aint worth anything offroad. Like a woundup rubber band
So none had cvt makes sense. But also all 4 wheel drive. And AWD vehicles seem to be getting watered down in favor of these companies saving a few dollars. So they save you still pay and you pay your hard earned money on inferior parts making up that vehicle. These big brands are starting to coast on old brand recognition and stature. It’s bs..
These guys can't drive... They had trouble getting a 4runner through a couple inches of snow.
Fit some lockers to the jeep and it goes to a whole new level.
A whole nudda leb-bull!
aarynj jeeps needs always some extra changes before going to the real shit is the reason Subaru is the first AWD and the 1 place 4x4 go max 35 mph when AWD go max
You can put a torq locker on the outback and it'll go ham as well.
Set it up right and that Jeep will go pretty much anywhere any wheeled vehicle ever built will go.
WAT
@@Butterflylo328
I own a 4runner that I wheel a good bit. I also own a 6 speed Forester. We camp out of our Forester. In the sand, shallow slick mud, snow and ice, and loose gravel, my forester does amazingly well. They're traction system is top notch. In anything with steep climbs, deep mud, rocks, or big washes, I climb in that 4runner every time. The Subarus are built well, and will go a lot of places a Camry or Accord won't, but they're not built for the same purpose as the Cherokee.
Ppl HATED on you guys last time yelling you didnt turn traction control off.
Not much left to say now on that. The Outback just doesnt have that extra kick.
Shkotay D turning off traction control on a Subaru CVT doesn’t stop it from doing the same thing.
Thats the point - it still behaved exactly the same anyways. I was led to believe these were more spacious and could compete offroad with a cherokee trailhawk.
They may be more spacious and better on gas, but no way do they come close to the same offroad capacity.
The problem they have is that it's not a manual. The automatics pull power in situations like this when with a manual the computer sure as shit won't control that if you have all assist off. If they were to take a lifted wrx or sti up that it'd rock socks no issue. They're using the wrong vehicle.
They turned traction control off but not stability control.
@@rktrumble X-Mode is hurting this test. X-Mode is perfect for ice, but any slippage will cause traction control to be on steroids.Try again without X-mode in scenarios like this.
Subaru is mad AF right now
Especially since it could have made it up that easily but these guys can't drive worth shit.
an amc eagle would be closer to the outback than the xj
AMC Eagles are super cool! It's the original crossover, well ahead of the times.
Had one. wish I never sold it lol
@@stevemunn7609
Im a mopar guy since the 70s , the only car/vehicle i have ever owned that wasnt was the eagle. It was a VERY COOL CAR/ CROSSOVER.
I specifically logged in to make this comment. My parents had one. Other than it being orange, it was awesome. I'd hoped to inherit it when I turned 16 but dad didn't hold on to it for me.
I had a 1984 eagle wagon. And numerous jeeps. The Subaru isn't even in the same class of "crossover" maybe closer to the eagle with half shafts.
I would say a 4runner vs. cherokee is more appropriate
Gen 2 or a Gen 3 would be good. I have a 2000 4Runner but always liked, and still do like the XJ. One of the last great Jeeps made IMO. Both the T4R and XJ hold their value well when they're in good condition.
What makes a crossover is unibody. 4runner is a body on frame truck. I can say primary rear wheel drive is a 4x4 and primary front wheel drive is a all wheel drive, so yes, not a fair comparison.
Scott K. Xjs don’t hold value at all
Toyota wins
Why not an offroad battle with an outback & a ford focus wagon ?
Target same market .. for groceries shopping !
I'd love to find an older JEEP in that condition.
seriously that thing looked mint
Agreed....Most XJ's of that vintage are rusted out
Not in Colorado. I have an 89 that looks about as good. I bought it 6 years ago for $3200.
I live in Colorado and recently purchased a 1986 Cherokee with a 2.5 inline 4 cyl. Took some extra cash to fix some problems, but, it has its original paint job! Not rusted at all. I love it!!
@@scottkinney2608 I have a 2001, and a 1996, as well as an 06 Wrangler 4 popper. Love them all for different reasons. Even my little 2.4ltr 06 could have run circles around that POS of a tin can. And my Cherokees would have just kept on going up hill!
When the new Ford Ranger comes out, I would like to see it vs a Chevy Colorado on Gold Mine Hill.
They would both easily make it, so it wouldn't really be much of a comparison.
Cliffhanger 2.0! :) I'm sure they will, if Ford will send them a Ranger.
Why not Miller Rock or T33A or Ironclads?
The Chevy would probably fall apart half way up.
That new Bronco is going to be awesome!!!
14:37 I like how Tommy is talking into the radio as he's walking by his dad...lol
You guys should test an old AWD Subaru wagon from the 80’s. We had one growing up and it was a beast on old New Mexico mountain trails. Once pulled a big Bronco out of the deep snow.
this video saved me from buying a new Subaru. i LITERALLY had planned to get one innthe next two weeks, but not after seeing this & doing some research on cvt. thx guys!
CVT works beautifully on inclines, snow, and beach sand. Change trans oil if doing a lot of trail or sand, and it goes and goes. The guys that made this were not driving well at all.
This was the old version of X-Mode and they were intentionally putting into a situation where it wouldn't work. Subaru now has the dual mode X-Mode that works totally fine and did when you commented. They were also demanding too much torque split to be realistic from a 180hp motor to get out of those situations, the new Outback and Forester have 310hp models to avoid this exact thing.
This has taught me so much! I love them.
The Subaru is definitely a car.
What are u stupid it's a crossover aka suv
It's an unsubaru
@@TFLclassics Savage 😂😂😂😂
@@MichaelArtelle Well the Outback is built on the Legacy platform, which is also the car. I'm not sure about the Forester though.
Yep it’s a station wagon with larger tires. It’s on the Subaru Legacy platform. We used Subaru Outbacks and Legacy’s for company cars for years.
I believe you must try it on a manual transmission Subaru.
Or with a 3.6r model. More power and torque with that one.
And they need to do the locking center diff switch mod. No new parts required, just a switch to trick the front/rear balance system to lock the center diff. Without that Subaru's aren't much use offroad(and they can seriously damage equipment in the transmission with wheelspin which happens when you don't have the switch mod)
I feel like it would have been more fair if you used an Outback with the 3.6 H6 and not the 2.5. Also the gen of Outback before this one, with the 3.6H came with a 5 speed auto and not a CVT.
I was saying that myself the 3.6r would have done it. Far more power and torque from that engine.
Yup, Every "Lets see what the Outback can do" video uses the 2.5 Subi VS. a V-6/V-8 [Brand X]
@@tomtalker2000 Indeed. The 3.6 has a larger (stronger CVT) @ 247 lb-ft. torque. The 2.5 has 174 ft -pd of torque
The XJ is a straight six
Dan what’s you point? I’m saying the comparison is not fair because of the engine displacement. Either use a 2.5 i4 XJ vs 2.5 i4 outback, or use 4.0 i6 XJ vs 3.6 h6 outback. Does that make sense?
I’ve lived near there for 20 years. What the hell is “Gold Mine Hill?” Do you mean Gold Hill?
Good pt
Tires: These tires are not comparable (hey kid (I apologize for the 'kid' label, but I couldn't remember his name) similar size does not mean that they perform the same off-road). Yes they are both All Season tires but that is where the similarities end, and yes they are both aggressive but for different reasons/uses. The Jeep is using Michelin LTX Defender M/S (mud/snow) Highway All Seasons made for on-road and light off-road use (made for gravel, mud, snow). The Subaru is using Bridgestone Dueler H/P (highway/passenger) Sport Touring All Seasons which are made for better street handling and not made for any off-road use.
Look at the closeup of the chunky Jeep Michelin tread. No it's not chunky compared to true off-road tread, but much more so than the Subaru Bridgestones. Tire Rack even has off-road ratings for the Michelin LTX Defender M/S tires, it does not have off-road ratings for the Bridgestone Dueler H/P tires (because it is not made for off-road use).
Glenn S You’re not wrong per se but your point is moot. There is no tire tread pattern on this planet that would put the Subaru anywhere near the Jeeps off-road ability.
In the scenario of this video, tires really don't matter that much. They're on pretty solid dirt, providing good traction. Now, if they were going through some loose packed sugar sand or mud, then the tires would really come into play. I've gone through stuff worse than they did with completely bald tires on my Cherokee and didn't have too many issues.
The tire that had traction wasn't spinning so it is not a tire issue but a power delivery one. Putting the power down on the wheel with good traction.
However, if they didn't turn traction control off, this is what happens. It powers through fine if you turn off TC. There are plenty of videos out there that show you how to drive these cars.
I agree, I just can't believe people that put out such a big TH-cam car show are so ignorant.
I think the world deserves to see you guys give it a go after pulling the abs fuse along with any other traction control fuses
But they shouldn't have to do that in order to get it to do some simple off-roading.
I also believe that there is a 'snow mode' enabled by the traction control button... that would be worth a try/test.
@@KeyboardWarrior101st I think Subaru is clear that their traction controls are designed more for inclimate weather. Not for mountains and rock climbing. But disable it completely and I bet you have a completely different animal.
Was hoping to see something actually difficult. But obviously the driver doesn’t have experience for this “stage 3” dirt road
How I wish you guys could import a Suzuki Jimny and take it up that trail.
Not sure if anybody answered your question yet, but "that button" in the Subaru engages a parking brake-based hill start assist. It works quite well on uneven terrain. I used it a lot in a rental Outback in Wyoming - whenever you stop on uneven terrain and remain stopped for a couple seconds, the hill start assist engages the parking brake (it seemed like a four-wheel parking brake) to keep the car stationary without having to shift into park which would obviously stress the transmission. On tough terrain I would actually leave the car running and get out with the hill start assist engaged to survey my surroundings. The car just sat there with the parking brake engaged. I didn't get a good idea of how to disengage it though - sometimes it would automatically disengage when I pressed the throttle again, but I believe on steeper hills it actually requires you to hold the service brake and disengage the parking brake manually.
You've got a selc-trac transfer case. Those are rare as hell on an XJ. The full-time 4x4 can be used on pavement because it doesn't lock the center diff. That's a super nice jeep. It ought to be in a museum. I hope you take care of it.
Wish you could test the manual Crosstek
Ask SUBARU to give them the car.
Roman said that he hates the manual in the Crosstrek. I personally would much rather have the manual.
Actually, the CVT has been shown (on the forums) to be the better choice for offroading. The CVT gives you a better (lower) gear, and the clutch on the manual just isn't up to tougher climbing situations.
Crosstrek has barely enough power in local driving.....Going uphill in altitude would most likely end in epic fail
@@jedironin380 absolutely not. The cvt cuts power.. the manual is 50 50 non stop. Only people who can't drive stick say that
Hi good test
can you please do the same test with an old Subaru :)
I do believe an older Subie, one without all the computer controlled stuff, would do as well or better than the Jeep.
but may do better than new Subaru
*with an old Subaru with a torque converter automatic
My father had a 83 Subaru GL wagon. It had selectable 4wd with hi and low range. Find one of those for your test and it will be apples to apples test.
quadracer392 those are sick! Too bad they didn't still offer something like that.
15:44 - what is happening here is quite simple. The outback has a feature that limits throttle and prevents wheelspin which is on by default. There is a button that looks like it disables anti-skid , but what it really does is allow for wheelspin. I have a 2015 outback myself and believe me , this little obstacle is nothing. Put the CVT in first "gear" (yes , really), enable X-mode (or try without) and disable VDC (anti-skid) and it should get up that bit easily..... Traction control can't be off unless it works differently on newer Outbacks.
Thanks Svein, this sounds like the answer. To be honest, a bit surprised the TFL guys weren't a bit more buttoned up with the comparison test. That said, the video was still entertaining.
That button next to xmode is called Hill Hold Assist. It's so you don't roll back when transitioning foot from brake to gas. Only is active when on an incline.
No.. the xj is not a cross over.. it’s a light truck... jeep even made a truck version of the xj called the mj Comanche... same chassis literally just with a bed on the back... it’s a truck... not a cross over... also another reason it’s a truck... it’s straight axle front and rear, uses leaf strings, does not use a transaxle with a Center differential.. the jeep uses a linear engine with a trans and transfer case ... in no way shape or form is the jeep a cross over...it’s in the light truck suv category
It's an SUV but not a truck it's not even body on frame
Your clearly confused about what a truck is.
Jeff Pittman
You're confused about English.
I’m confused about what a truck is? How? I’m not going off of weather is has a bed or not.. the manufactures class this vehicle as a light truck/suv.... also why the mj and xj are based off of the same platform ( yes the mj truck is a unibody) I have owned one... it’s a truck ... with a bed
Sam DeRenzi the Comanche isn’t body of frame either, yet it has a bed... soooo it’s not a truck?
Jeep Cherokee XJ all the way. It’s a beast !!!
Nice Cherokee, I have a 1992, with 220,000km that I picked up at a farm auction 18 months ago.
The guy had it sitting in his quonset for 10 years.
I wanna see a crosstrec with a 6 speed go up that hill. Please make this happen Subaru and TFLCAR
I have a 2018 OB 3.6 and took a rural coastal dirt road for over 20 miles that were in far worse conditions than this ... it performed AMAZINGLY well. We could have used a couple more inches of clearance for less stress but we never high-centered. A true test would be a 3.6 not a 4 cylinder IMO. Next try the 3.6. I'm getting an average of 25 mpg and live in a rural coastal village on windy roads. I LOVE my Subaru
The original "sport utility wagon" was the AMC EAGLE, which was an all wheel drive, unibody vehicle - AMC was very early out of the gate with unibodies and what they learned directly led to the AMC "XJ" Cherokee and Wagoneer. They also made a cool SX4 2-door.
I disagree with some of the statements in the video. The cars are not the same. The Jeep has two big advantages - suspension and angles. Not sure, but on this course gearing is not an issue for the Subie. It is an auto with a torque converter that can give you torque multiplication of at least factor of two. You just need to step on the gas.
As to the awd/4wd systems the Subaru has much better torque distribution system. The XJ is a dead vehicle with two wheels in the air ( open riffs and 231 transfer case). Also, if you test the two cars on slippery roads (ice and snow) the Subary with its electronically control multiplate clutch-based system will destroy the Jeep. I would recommend to the authors digging deeper into some physics books. Most of the comments in the video make no sense. However, it is clear that they have invested a lot of resources, so credit for that.
" Also, if you test the two cars on slippery roads (ice and snow) the Subary with its electronically control multiplate clutch-based system will destroy the Jeep."
Modern Subarus still use the old open differential or at best limited slip differentials. Those are inferior to torque vectoring (Acura SH-AWD) and locking differentials (Mercedes G wagon) which do not require a loss of traction in order to transfer power. Once traction is loss, you're dealing with kinetic friction instead of static friction...and kinetic friction is always less than static friction hence you get less traction when you need it most.
You should not need to give a vehicle a ton of gas when off roading, it's an easy way to lose control or traction. Gearing is an issue, the Subaru Lacks any real gears and Cvt's are known to have weak take offs. That's a reason why new Toyotas come with a take off gear. You want the right balance of torque and gearing to have a good start, when off roading. The CVT just isn't cable to off road well.
Next time PLEASE PROVE you have turned off the traction control. My 2010 forester 5sp manual acted just like this until you push the button (which is says to do in the manual when off road) then it will climb up a brick wall. Very capable SOFT ROADER.
I had a XJ for 6 years, a WJ for 2 years (still have it) And I bought a new 17 Outback, I can say in SNOW and slippery stuff where Gear Ratio and etc doesn't matter, the Subaru is hands down more capable. For hills and ruts and more off-road stuff, the Jeeps are better for sure. But TFL cannot seem to spin the tires in the Outback... I can spin the tires with traction control turned OFF. This is just weird seeing this.
I think they should turn off Xmod, or maybe disable the traction control after enabling Xmod. i don't know also for me it looks strange. But it's also a new car, maybe is a break-in period and the car is tuned less aggressively.
Yeah something is not right, I have one and have wheeled it pretty good. Maybe they need to find a local Subaru guru to show them how to drive it. Because of the "whatever this button is", that makes the test results invalid.
Next time Im out in the sticks with Scoobie... Im going to see what x-mode vs non x-mode really does. I'm pretty sure X-Mode just acted a bit more like hill descent control and let the CVT rev higher at slower speeds. It might be messing with traction control as well.
Subaru is Gay...Weak gay transmission,gutless engine, etc..... Hahaha
If you apply slight break pressure while your differentials are slipping (peg legging) it will help transfer power to the tires slipping, this has helped me out many times with open diffs.
Your videos are simply the best available on youtube!
Honestly, please redo this video. First read the owners manual. Look at the functions, the factory recommendations and try it again. Please....
what do you mean?
Tim th-cam.com/video/JuuUusoXqiU/w-d-xo.html
I was thinking the same thing, I've ridden with my brother in his outback on just as bad of roads. He drove like it was a normal street.
No need. The Subaru just doesn't have the torque at the proper rpm mated to a transmission that would pass it to the wheels. That engine and drivetrain are garbage.
How about the AMC Eagle as among the first SUV's! Also when spinning a tire off camber with an open diff, use the brakes with more gas! It might help! As for the subaru it might take longer for the computer to sort things out without without fiddeling with everything else?
That's actually how x mode works. The reason the tires in the air are not spinning is the x mode system is applying the brakes on those wheels allowing power to transfer to the wheel in contact with the ground. A relatively simple and cheap solution compared to adding a limited slip diff.
@@k2cyclops162 Why they did not give more time to the computer to do it's work as it should not be spinning wheels?
Turn x mode off and stability control off. Seriously read the damn Manuel first. Fail review.
They don't know how to read.
Real man font read the manual lmao! On the first try anyways
This isn’t the first time they’ve butchered on off-road review. They are wannabe off-roaders, probably own new wranglers but don’t actually know anything about off-roading.
Manual** Seriously read the dictionary :-)
As a fellow Coloradan, this video made me cringe.
Guys, this is a great video. You are both really entertaining and it is obvious that you know and love your car stuff. You are a great pair together. And stage 3 is a genuine test. Any criticism is just the subaru fanbois and the envious. Thanks for the show.
Turn traction control off, then put it in manual mode and use the paddle shifters. When put in manual mode the pressure on the plates in the cvt is increased. Meaning you will be able to put all the power to the wheels that’s not slipping. When off-roading an outback always remember to turn off traction control and use manual mode!!
Why an outback and not a Forester?
Why an XJ and not an Eagle?
@@KC9UDX and Eagle Talon?
@@neverstopz9045 a Mitsubishi? Eeww
Wrong eagle. He means AMC eagle. Check one out.
How could the Forester be anymore capable then the Outback. Considering it's the same AWD system in both vehicles.
THIS IS NOT A CVT ISSUE!!! (The CVT should not be shifting at all with this test.{It should STAY in LOW gear}) Perhaps you should learn a little more about the Subaru AWD system. For example, by sliding the shifter from "D" into "M".. this specifically reprograms the computer to help the vehicle get moving from a stop under low-traction conditions. (higher RPMs, lower gearing, and different AWD algorithm) OH- and I am pretty sure that 'funny button' is the hill-hold feature which uses the parking brake every time you stop on an incline.
^ get this guy to do the test
Well, I just crossed the Subaru Ascent off my list of possibilities. No turbo or CVT for me.
toulouse666 Torbo Ascent would help here with the elevation and added power. Also supposidly it can tow up to 5k lbs, vs. this Outback is rated at 1.5 or 2k. So, I'd definetly be interested in seeing what it does. Yet these guys can't get a hold of one without buying it.And I don't think that is happening anytime soon.
toulouse666, I'm well aware of the differences between the Outback and Ascent. You're missing my point. My concern is with a turbo engine and CVT. I'm hesitant to get any vehicle with a turbo because I don't think turbo engines have the longevity of non turbos. And the Ascent is the biggest 3 row crossover Subaru has ever made. This very heavy SUV is propelled with a 4 cylinder engine and it's a brand new engine for Subaru. . I understand Subaru is trying to satisfy EPA fuel economy standards while giving the Subaru competitive towing capacity. But I'm very concerned with a 4 cylinder turbo on this big vehicle. And the problems with CVTs are well known. This test with the Outback only adds to the negative history of CVTs. I had recently read that CVTs have greatly improved. Obviously not. And this particular test was off road. Off road capability was one of the main reasons I was considering the Subaru Ascent. The failure with the CVT in this test was the deciding factor for me eliminating the Ascent from consideration.
thats true but subaru has been doing turbos for much longer that the rest of the industry the main thing is these cars are not meant to go off road, the awd is meant for on road conditions
malavpatel77, Well then you'd better inform Subaru of that. Because every commercial I've ever seen Subaru touts its AWD system in an attempt to appeal to active people encouraging them to take their Subarus off pavement. It's clearly not a rock crawler but every commercial shows a Subaru churning up dirt roads.
Outback is a lifted legacy estate. Somebody parked a outback behind my levorg. The resemblance was more than you could imagine. Still levorg is actually built on the smaller wrx, not the legacy estate.
It snowed 3" a couple of days ago and became unusually slippery. I'm the happy owner of a 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 3.3L with 4wd and a CVT transmission. It got almost all the way up a long driveway/hill and slowed to a stop. I had the pedal floored, the traction control light was flashing, and engine making noises. When I got off the gas and pressed the brake peddle it started sliding back down the hill. I found that ABS and TC don't engage when you're going backwards. This vehicle is surprisingly quick when the engine, and the electric motor, and the 4wd all kick in... on dry or wet! But the Highlander literally cut power to the wheels when I needed it most under snowy icy conditions.
I love to see that father and son share the same taste for cars and outdoors. Wish my kid someday like my own hobbies too. Keep up with the videos I love them.
I had a 1982 Subaru gl it had hi and low 4wd, it was a beast, wish I still had it.
$25,000 affordable, as long as you have great credit.
Subaru works great for taking the kids to soccer practice and the pavement
Sinister Rc exactly!! Subarus are not intended for that kind of stuff.
And snow
True, they are pretty darn nice in the snow.
Be careful of what you are saying, if the fanboys read this they will going to slap you with their "the world is flat" and "awdsome" sticker
@@bokalaws4181 um.
i think that outback saw more off roading in this video then every outback in my city
The biggest problems here were 9000 ft elevation combined with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder. And I get it, the CVT didn’t do anything help either lol. Also... XMode should be off and you probably need to use the “manual” mode for that situation, but maybe still not make it because of power/elevation. My ‘15 Outback with 2.5 liter and A/T tires is hella capable at 3500 ft where I live. That hill at my elevation would be easy peasy. Solid!
For the testing you were planning on it probably would have been a good idea to get the H6 motor, and I wonder how it would have done if you didn't use the X mode and the other button, and just put it in manual mode with the traction control off to see if that would help make it climb?
I was thinking the same thing....H6 vs. I6. Or compare to a 2.5l 4 cylinder Cherokee, same size engine. Let's remember the Cherokee is 300 plus pounds lighter!
Jeep is Awarded for their off-road ability, let’s leave it to them
Lol
How soon before that CVT blows itself apart? My wife and I have a 2016 and its CVT has already been an issue.
I have is Subaru Impreza that is a 2012 with a hundred and thirty thousand miles on it
Oh do tell
@@johnburkard3121 that's pre-cvt.
My 2013 Outback with a CVT has 130,000 miles, and so far, the transmission has held up fine.
Yeah so they should have read the manual, I'll give you that but there's no reason to call them idiots and tell them they have no idea what they are doing. They spend a lot of time and effort creating these videos and I appreciate it more than they know. They aren't off-road experts and I actually like that. It means it's more real world tests.
And you know what, the newer video using some of your suggestions the Outback still sucks in that situation. With it's past reputation and what's it's represented to be, I expected a lot more from it. It appears to be engineered poorly and it doesn't hold up to Subaru's presentation. Don't let these childish comments kill your drive to create more videos. Keep doing what you are doing.
I used to do quite a bit of bushwhaking in my old power wagon in my younger days and it was my experience that the only time the low range was an appropriate selection was if you were pulling something extremely heavy. Now in fairness my truck was a four speed manual, but any hill climbing i did successfully was done in four wheel high, the low range option just produced way too much torque and thus wheel spin. My old power wagon was an absolute beast for any task asked of it, especially snow plowing with the limited slip differentials front and back, durable and reliable.
I'm sorry, and I know I'll probably get hate for this, I absolutely disagree on many points you make here. These cars were designed for completely different purposes in completely different segments. The Cherokee is NOT a crossover, and the Subaru IS a station wagon with a little more ground clearance. The Cherokee was designed to be fully capable off-road when it was new, and was built to compete with the midsize SUV market with cars like the Bronco and Blazer. It has far more ground clearance, and the torque is all made in mid to low range RPMs, whereas the Subaru is all mid to high - let alone being made by an EJ25 flat-four. And no, the 4.0 did not make 180hp when new - it probably does now, if a bit less, because it came with 193hp since it's the HIgh-Output engine.
I can tell you that from curently owning a newer XJ for a while, it cannot be compared to a jumped up estate car, or any modern crossover. Just because it's small doesn't mean that it's in the same segment - proportions have changed, and cars have gotten bigger.
I was told the outback was "built to take me to the place I've never been" so are you saying not so much? Subaru might wanna change their messaging then.www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
It's a slogan, and many crossovers have a similar kind of thing to that. They make the car look and sound like it can go anywhere, and do anything, when really it can only tackle relatively flat gravel roads without difficulty. Subaru isn't the only company doing this, others are too, because they know that nobody's really going to push these cars as far as the companies say they will go.
Actually, can you point out some similar types of slogans? I notice that not many crossovers make such bold claims and present such bold images except for Jeep, and maybe others? But even so, many other crossovers actually make it up this very hill. See TFL's test of the volvo and mitsubishi crossovers.
50% of the vehicles that have made it are Jeeps. That really does say something. Only in a Jeep baby, only in a Jeep.
I wish ford didn’t discontinue the bronco. I would like to have seen a 90s bronco comparison as well
@@itsjoeman5757 I owned a 96 bronco it is too big for small trails. That being said if the bronco had room it would go anywhere. The jeep is a better size.
Seems to me he is still holding a grudge against Subaru or fears damaging his investment! Both cars did not have the same speed, did not have the same route, and then he suddenly jerked the steering wheel to the left when it was about to make it to stall it. Let's not forget that he is comparing a car (crossover) to a Jeep, which he tries to convince you that it is a car (crossover)!!! I would accept a result from the same driver and a more controlled course, how about that? are you up to the challenge?
Would you call the Cherokee a truck then? A SUV?
Cherokee is an SUV built on a jeep (truck) platform (albeit unibody) up until the car platform based 4-door Compass and Patriot arrived for 2007. The outback was introduced as a wagon on the legacy (car) platform and remained so until today. Later they raised the car and called it a "crossover" or crossover utility vehicle (CUV)
One more thing lets not forget what the manufacturers (American Motors Corporation, later Chrysler) called it a compact SUV
How can you say he's holding a grudge when he bought one? Subies are great in snow, but they're not meant for real off-roading. I used to work on mountain top communication repeaters, and my old solid axle Jeep Grand Cherokee always got me there, though there were times in winter I had to put chains on all four wheels. I'm not sure that the new Grand Cherokees would have the suspension articulation necessary for that, same as the Subaru. Might have to get a Wrangler if I ever do that kind of work again.
I tested these buttons in a rental outback I had for a week. The X-mode is used to get out of snow (it limits wheel spin, similar to starting from 2nd gear. It shuts off by itself after going 20 mph) the second button is for limiting roll back from starting at an incline.
Drove 5 people and luggage up San Francisco Hills, Yosemite Park, sequoia national park and Grand Canyon with very steep hills - the car has a lot of power.
X-mode works great downhill as well...It applies the rear parking brake as you travel downhill... I used it in the hilly streets of Eureka Springs Arkansas...
I don't like CVTs, but I have several ATVs with them, along with a geared 5 speed ATV. The CVT is NOT Subaru's main deficiency.
The CVT is less a problem compared to the lack of a Hi/Lo range. The CVT would be fine if a Lo range permitted the car to be under load at near stall speed (~1 mph) with the engine running, say 2500 RPM, and then under light load, the CVT would spool up to ~5mph at 2000 RPM . Also, there is no good substitute for locking differentials.
Yep, locking differentials would do the trick. Unfortunately the only Subaru which can simulate them in a driver controlled way is an STI with far less ground clearance.
Always wondered how far they could potentially go if Foresters were made like STI's, but with more ground clearance, a snorkel and better off road tires.
I remember older atmospheric Subaru Outbacks having a high/low range gear switch of sorts though.
Also, honestly, I would probably not use X-Mode for hill climbing, but for level mud or descent. Then again, I may be totally wrong about that.
A bit more power and torque ould be nice as well. I have seen Subarus go up slopes like that, but they were driven by experienced off road drivers - not sure how much of a difference that'd make nowadays, but I'd say it will help at least.
That button you pushed hold the hill for you
Holy crap are Subarus really that bad?!?!?! My 17 year old Wrangler just crawled up more than that last weekend!?!? I'm really glad my mom went with a Toyota instead of that bag of crap! Why would you even buy it if it can't climb a tiny hill?!
It's a moms car to go shopping and picking up her kids from school lol
Subarus are NOT trucks
Toulouse NO, Outbacks are NOT Imprezas! Go to Subaru.com and seriously read what's what, and note the specifications, they're NOWHERE NEAR being an Impreza! You keep repeating this stupid claim.
That button doesn't make the car role back..if you're on a steep hill,and you let go of the breaks it stays still and wont role back..
Cheers from Yemen
Love your videos guys and THANKS a million. i almost bought a subaru outback as I am in the market. it is YOU guys that saved me from making that HUGE mistake!
I bought one. It is my favorite. If you go heavy off roading than yeah it's a mistake but it's a great car
The AMC Eagle would be the first true crossover (From an American manufacturer) built
The simple fact that they took so much offense at you doing what you do and got BUTTHURT over THEIR car not making it that they won't loan them out while everyone else does. Yeah. I won't even look at a subie now. And it was on the list for the wife's new car.
Agreed. If it was truly about a scratch, make then pay for it ans move on. TFL is Colorado based and thats one of subarus biggest markets. Seems like they are missing out
Can you guys take a Kia Sorento or Sportage up gold mine hill
It will probably overheat
Took my 07 Sorento 4X4 up it and it did good little trouble on 2 and 3 but it made it up
Check out the video of a new Sorento climbing Hells Gate in Moab, it's pretty impressive.
@@trailrunnah8886 With a few changes to the vehicle over stock....
Angela Schoendienst from what I understand it was just all terrain tires and skidplates.
I'm curious how it would have been between that Cherokee and the 2009-2013 subaru outback/forester which has the four speed automatic instead of the CVT but no X mode.
The Subaru might do better than the '18, but it still isn't ever keeping up with an XJ. That 4.0L is a low end torque monster.
I've had 6 Subaru Forester and 1 Outback and can say you drive like my grandma..!
Put the SUV in manual the 1st gear and push the throttle full down...! Worry about the gear box or engine? Hello it's automatic..!!! Just push..!!!
Please the video was good but your drive mode a shame.!
Does a CVT have a 1st gear?
@@Titantramp4u No
He said he had it floored with traction control off. Not sure how much more you want him to give it...?
I love the videos you guys make you have guts and you bring the real reviews out!
My expectation with my 2014 Outback was to keep me going on the road no matter what and it did very capably. Fantastic for snow and slippery conditions. I would never go to the Outback to climb crappy dirt hills.
That's good, because you couldn't even if you wanted to apparently.
I climb crappy dirt hills in my 2005 Forester all the time. My 1983 Subaru wagon (with hi/low range 4wd) took me places most people wouldn’t believe. 1983- before the Cherokee came out.
Yes, the Cherokee is a ‘real’ 4wd with a transfer case and solid axles, but it’s not original. It just happens to be better than this particular Subaru on this particular test.
Great video as always. I thought I heard Subarus were good for offroad.
Suburas are trash. 100% trash
Free Dirt ask the owner of a Subaru with a “the world is flat” sticker on their tailgate and they’ll tell you that their is no better off-road vehicle than a Subaru.
@@rileygallagher4956 there are some good subies out there and it hilarious to see them out do actual 4x4s. The only cvt vehicle that I've driven that was semi decent climbing steep hills off road oddly enough was a 2003 Nissan murano. But that's just what I've driven. Tfl and others have shown cvts under load and low speed tend to overheat alot and have a hard time putting power to the ground... kinda curious if an aftermarket trans cooler would solve the overheating issue on many of those vehicles?
ever owned one?? (didn't think so)
Great reply. The "steel belt on a conical shaft" thing was good
The Jeep has 2 live axles.They are called live axles because they contain drive line components to move the vehicle. Solid axles have no moving parts inside because... they are solid. Think wagon. Solid axles are found at the rear of front wheel drive vehicles and the front of heavy trucks.
Put good snow tires on both these vehicles and compare on road in a blizzard. Subaru doesn't build for "off road". Their technology focuses on traction management and stability control on road and they are very good when weather gets very bad
Yes and subaru outback will "take you to the place you've never been" which according to their marketing kind of looks like this dirt road it couldn't take roman up. www.subaru.com/vehicles/outback/index.html
Hill Start Assist. Essentially it activates the parking brake when you come to a complete stop on an incline, then keeps you from rolling backwards when you start again.
Now the time to consider the new 2020 XT for another round hhhhh keep up the great reviews. Thanks indeed
I hate the cvt. I have a 2011 outback with a manual and it with go just about anywhere I want to.
Ya know They do make a 6 cylinder Outback Subaru! So why don't you make it even match and put a 6 cylinder Jeep up against the 6-cylinder Outback? Hello!!
Yeah and smoke the trans faster
Forget driving offroad with a cvt. Even an automatic would let you use your gears. This drives like an underpowered prewar car, like from the '30s
Lack of humility, arrogance in abundance and no vehicle knowledge...these are the qualities, IMHO, that define this young man. More of detriment than a asset.
Son to father: can you not ruin my shot.
Father to son. Thanks for meeting me up here.😁🤣🤣