Like the video says, my head agrees with Tommy, my heart agrees with Roman. Another consideration, the BFGs are too heavy for this rig. Get a P rated A/T tire like the geolander so you can improve traction without all the weight. Roman is right, Subaru is leaving $ on the table by not offering a legit off road subaru.
I just got the wildpeak a/t trails for my forester. Those tires are specifically made for crossovers and while they're not as capable as a KO2, they're more than enough all terrain for my subie and only weighs 5 pounds more per tire than the stock ones.
The dealerships are doing one-off upgrades. My dealership has a lifted crosstrek with 2" lift, method 302 wheels, off road tires, push bar, basket. Looks great.
@@JDS-Dalton I did the same with my Outback XT. Subaru should've made the Wildpeaks standard equipment on the Forester Sport, Crosstrek, and the Outback XT Onyx Edition.
I drive a lifted Tacoma 4wd, and I like the Subie community. Most of the off road groups just want to go rock crawling some boring rock obstacles at 1 mph while denting and scratching their rigs, while most subie drivers just want to see nature and go on scenic trails. The latter is much funner to me.
The beauty of the Tacoma and similar is that you can do both! Where as the Subie can on only do one. I love technical rock crawling and scenic trails so thats what I do with truck. There is no reason with all new tech, that you cant build a vehicle that does everything, including rock crawling! A Subaru will get you far enough get into a situation you cant get out of!
Another thing the taco does better is dune bashing. I prefer smashing the gas pedal, climb a huge dune, and then slide all the way down. Occasional jumps are not that bad! Off-roading is so diverse and everyone has a favorite!
I'm an oddball with a gmc envoy. Its got a 2in lift, 32in a/t, and some odds and ends. It rocks for long off road trips seeing nature and has the guts to deal with some obsticals. Well I went out with a jeep group this weekend where the whole trail was a rock obstical and your top speed all day is 6mph. I was amazed my rig made it and one of them even got stuck. But that kind of off roading I think im going to save for every now and then and I am more interested in the long distance overland-ish trips I was doing before. Which could be done in a wide variety of 4x4s.
I want my vehicle to where: if i suddenly get the itch, i can just yeet the bad boy off the road and up wooded the mountains going full steam ahead. Or with snorkel...hop into the flood zone and pick up some stranded folks, and get out to a hospital and store.
I lifted my 05' forester. I got as big of tires as I could fit, used a 2" lift, as well as King lift springs all around. I added aluminum skid plates on the engine/oil pan, transmission and rear diff. I've lived in Alaska for several years and drove my subaru twice from Ohio through Canada to Alaska. I've driven through multiple Alaskan winters and NEVER gotten stuck anywhere. In fact, I've pushed and pulled several trucks out of ditches, when their overconfident drivers forgot that 4-wheel drive doesn't mean much on ice! I've driven up mountains, through streams, over sand dunes, beaches, downed trees and the deepest mud or snow you could imagine driving through. Usually when my "truck" friends go for an off road ride in my subie, they tell me how they wish their trucks were more like my vehicle. I'm by no means saying my forester could out-climb a tacoma or similar vehicle. I'm just saying, (short of driving specifically to a rock climb event) my forester has taken me EVERYWHERE I've ever needed it to, and some places I didn't!
@@Homecar220 i used to have a 02 forester that I loved but wrecked it had to get a new car. Thinking of getting another one thats a few years newer and getting a lift kit and roof rack tent so i could go and stay literally anywhere. But i was worried about how reliable/worth it a lift kit would be on a subaru vs a truck/realSUV. This comment has given me much more confidence in thinking about the subaru thanks lol.
@@flowerasteroid6241 For sure. I live in Ohio now, but the snow still gets serious from time to time and with everything going on in the US, I still may need those skid plates!
This argument boils down to your definition of “off road”. Not everyone wants to rock crawl, but just because you’re not rock crawling doesn’t mean you’re not “off road” and that’s where I think the elitist thing comes into play. Jeep people feel like the only true off roading is taking your rig to some boulder filled oasis and running it up 60 degree canyons and if you’re not doing things like that then you’re not really off-roading and I disagree. To me off roading is simply that, running your rig where there are no roads and there are plenty of places where suped up subies are capable of going that fit that definition. So to me the whole debate is simply based in the elitist idea by traditionalist Jeep guys that if you’re not doing it like us then you’re not really doing it and that just simply isn’t true. Great video guys ✌🏽
I agree. People do this with everything. Check out gun vids. Gun snobs have a problem with any gun that doesn't start off at $600.00 plus. Do what works for you.
What you are talking about falls into overlanding and not necessarily offroading. Tommy is making a case of a stock subaru where the user is not necessarily imcreasing the vehicles ability to offroad better relative to the money they are spending.
Hell a big percentage of Jeeps never even see dirt! All that matters is does it work for you? Are you happy with it? Then who cares! Still paying off my daily driver jeep so the last thing I want to do is break an axle on boulders!
Subarus as they stand currently are no more off-road worthy than a Prius. So no it’s not an elitist thing, matter of fact these Subarus owners never ending boast about how off road capable their “battlewagons” are. Meanwhile anyone with a true 4x4 knows they could never hang off-roading.
Just bought an Outback. My first Subaru. I know 90% or more of driving will be on the street but I want to explore light offroad and get into camping spots. I think there are a lot of people like me out there and why Subaru is doing so well.
@@big.gib.4Lit doesn't even really need to be casual. It's just not for rock crawling. People take subarus into some of the harshest environments. Obviously the old ones with low gears are better for some things.
This is exactly why i bought a Forester, some occasional rough roads that a car wouldn't make it down but the Subaru can. Not to mention how it handles in deep snow.
My wife has a completely stock 2018 Crosstrek and i drove it up some mining trails in Ricco Colorado where only Jeeps are normally allowed. The trails were made of basketball sized boulders and the Crosstrek drove right up it. I bottomed out a few times but took no damage. The only damage was from hitting a tree branch and breaking the window. I even have it on video.
Exactly, most of these lifted subarus including mine, are used mostly on dirt roads a little more clearence and better choice in meaty tires. Deff not rock crawling
Sometimes they seemed focused mostly on where they live and how they might use vehicles, but owners are all different and so are our needs. I didn't lift my Forester, but did up one size to an A/T tire with next to no sacrifice, but understand how it could benefit some doing a lift. In our 4X4 group we had outings of various difficulty and you knew ahead of time if you should take the CJ or if a CUV would be adequate. We had outings just for fun to get out in the woods and enjoy nature, and also had completion events for those into such. Sometimes we were amazed by the ability of some vehicles, and a couples times vehicles which looked impressive like an old style full size Blazer that looked like it should be on the cover of an off road supply company's catalog, but had to be rescued more than once by a plain old bare bones CJ or Landcruiser who just went through with ease. Don't know if the Blazer was the problem or the driver. TFL seems to really enjoy knocking Subaru. Toyota and Honda each have a vehicle which imply it is off road worthy, but you don't see them taking shots at them. They are getting like the grocery store tabloid of automotive reporting, headlines that make you look and no substance.
The market for used Toyota 4wd 4Runners and Tacomas is absolutely ridiculous. Way overpriced. So I got a 2005 Forester and lifted it. Works great for my use case.
but they lift it correctly in the factory. They actually raise the body so it is at the correct angle for the axles. When you do it yourself, your axles will not last too long.
So I am a Jeep owner who has just purchased a 2003 Subaru Forester in the past three months. I have put a 2” ADF lift on it and added Cooper AT3’s to it with rims. Now the Subaru does have the 4EAT automatic transmission, 4 cylinder 2.5L and I have found that this little beast climbs really well and drive very nice with all the mods. So I have to say Tommy your wrong on off-road capability but right on it won’t go everywhere a Jeep will go. This rig is a very capable vehicle for the more moderate off-roading and highway use. By the way, I haven’t lost much of the handling with the lift and tires. This little Fozzi rocks for just pure fun.
I had a 2016 cross trek. I went down 1 size on the rims and put on general grabber AT2 tires. That little car took me everywhere I wanted to go. Now it wasn’t a “rock crawler” but with smart decisions I was able to get down most trails. I loved that car and eventually gave it to my daughter
The same argument can be made when trucks are lowered. Even though it limits the capability the truck was meant to have, it's ultimately the decision of the buyer.
I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
Yeah, but Lowered trucks can't even drive on pavement half the time. I can understand a lifted Subie, but a lowered truck owner needs their license taken away for their sins.
I lifted my Forester 4 years ago without any problems and it gets me over bigger obstacles and the driving hasn’t changed. Cv joints are still looking great.
I wouldnt take it personally. They just really hate the outback for some reason lol. It's like this weird biased they put in all their videos. Every test they have done its completely biased lol. I actually love in a place where we get real snow unlike they do, and my outback has literally taken everything it's gotten thrown at it.
Totally disagree with Tom, there are plenty of Subaru's down here in Australia that are effectively some of the best multipurpose cars on the road. Fantastic handling, comfort and safety, but with a 2" lift a bullbar and some spotties they are incredibly capable. I deny the idea that people lift Subaru's to keep up with a Jeep. The reason people lift Subaru's is to get "that tiny bit further", without comprising on road dynamics. Jeep v Subaru on road there is no comparison, Subaru's stick like glue. A lifted Subaru is an ultimate best of both worlds. In saying this, I don't believe my argument stands true for the newer CVT Subaru's. They are trash!!! Old 5 speeds are way better. My Forester XT had over 210kw, a small lift, snorkel, recovery gear and there was not a single national Park it couldn't reach! That thing had torque in every gear on a steep incline. There's people that go off-road to reach nice secluded campsites, beaches and rivers. Then there's the people that use there car to mount cliffs and rocks. Subaru people (generally) are practical and outdoorsy
Agree, I'm running a 2" lifted outback with 1.59:1 custom dual range AWD box, 12kgf centre diff, AT tyres etc and I love that it's super comfortable on a 1200km touring day, safe as houses on a wet twisty mountain pass or gravel roads out of town (I live in Tassie) but I can look down any shitty side track and not worry (famous last words) about getting stuck. This dude just doesn't get it, a Jeep is (very) good at one thing only. The (slightly modded) Subie is a swiss army knife.
I actually have my 2019 Subaru Forester stock besides some deeper tread, and I've tackled black diamond, and wrangler dedicated trails with ease not to mention drove through the 4-6 foot fresh powder that was dumped on Big Bear lake this last year, and did it with stock tires, with ease. I got this car for my two children for safety originally, and being an off road enthusiast I thought it was a minivan at first. After owning this car, and seeing how truly capable it is off road, I completely understand needing a lift, and a bit of extra clearance. I'm 29 and support the fathers opinion entirely. -Angelo
Yeah the CVT sucks argument is old. You can't charge every hill but you also don't have to take the dumbest possible line every time to try to prove how much they suck for your youtube channel.
@@UtahBigfoothunter It's hard to protect your family if your wife rolls the thing on a commute and kills her and your kids when the body crumbles. Different tools for different jobs, I guess. But it would be really nice if some of these 4X4s had roadworthiness and IIHS / NHTSA safety ratings as good as their off-road capabilities. I get the on-road trade-off, but I never could understand why "tough" trucks seemingly can't have good crash ratings.
There was a time when 4wd Subarus had a lever , near the center console, that allowed the driver to select 4wd hi or 4wd low. Subaru should bring that back.
I agree, I have a 2017 Forester diesel manual which is great. Continental A/T's and it's great. Would love the low range but also an Eaton Truetrac would also be nice.
They still do have low range gearboxes in other countries, and always have. Subaru of America just had their head up their butt and won't offer it here for some reason. If you really want one you can import the transmission, lever, and interior trim and slap it in relatively cheaply.
Jacob Burnette it’s probably because they don’t have a market in the US for it. In Australia they don’t sell a manual Subaru because they simply don’t sell.
I have a 23 wilderness and while I know this is an old video, my OBW is more than capable on moderate logging roads. I haven’t lifted it yet, but there were times where I would’ve felt a little more secure with an extra inch. The CVT did great and has yet to let me down.
Gents, I climbed a HUGE mountain here outside of Austin yesterday with a bunch of Jeeps around me (I have a TRD Pro) and there was a kid there with a Subaru with a 2" lift, a winch, etc, and he had zero trouble in some really impressive areas. I think it's also 95% skill and 5% vehicle. I don't think I'd have the skill to motor a Subaru but he certainly did and well.
To be fair, i take my 06 Saturn ion 2.2 ecotec 4spd manual, in places a lil family car probably shouldn't be lol. The life of a delivery driver in a crater county. The lil brat has handled 80k miles of unpaved, potholed, muddy, washboard road, curvy back road abuse. Suspension has gotten loose and floppy...which ended up making it better lol.
That is so true I’ve said for over 40 years that a good driver can make a shitty truck look good , and a shitty driver can make a great truck look like shit .
They proved that subaru outback could go up that mound o rocks and dirt shown in this video on a second video. The Subaru is way quieter than the Wrangler on the road. Now with Xmode all it's missing is the lockers, which are available. The CVT is warranted now for 100k miles. I like the Wrangler Unlimited but I hate the wind noise at any speed over 15
Offroading a Subaru is fun in the same way it's fun to drive a slow car fast but not fun to drive a fast car slow. I promise you they aren't modifying them to rock crawl or do what a Jeep will do. Good off-road oriented tires make a huge difference and a lift really depends on what type of terrain you're on if it would be beneficial.
Very thoughtful, I put truck ply tyres 215/60/16 with a slightly more agressive pattern for trails and gravel roads and have better puncture resistance. Still undecided about a lift kit. I have King springs in the rear so is a little lift or "stance". It is still great on hwy use and only a little noise comes from tyres. Am happy with its overland capability.
As a Subaru owner myself here was my thought process. I originally wanted a 4 runner but there was a significant price difference. Not a few thousand but like 10 thousand. Not to mention the gas mileage difference. I was able to get my Subaru Forester sport with a lifetime power train warranty. I wanted something that was reliable to take camping all over. I'm not doing rock crawling. I'm not going to Moab. I just want to be prepared for some sketchy dirt or gravel roads of I need to get through it. If I hit a muddy dirt road on an incline I can confidently get out with my Subaru. I'm not purposely taking it mudding or through creeks and stuff. I did lift mine 2" and put all terrain tires because I camp in the North Carolina mountains all the time. That setup maybe cost me 1200 more. There's a lot of non maintained sketchy roads that do require a little more clearance. I've been through many spots where my buddy's Tacoma would get stuck or slide in 2wd and my Subaru easily glided over with no effort. Sure xmode is just software but the newest version does help quite a bit. Motto of the story is I don't think most Subaru owners are wanting to go rock crawling. Most of us just want to travel most anywhere and want an affordable reliable vehicle to get us there. I think I made a great choice.
Hey John, have you tried taking your lifted subaru in very loose and/or wet sand at the outer banks? I'm looking for a small suv for surf trips and daily commute to work.
@@RaulEdu33 yes! I have actually done quite a bit of off roading since that last post including on the dunes in outer banks and in Ocala Florida. I own a 2019 Forester sport with the dual x mode along with a 2" lift and 245/65r17 falcon wildpeak all terrain tires. Helps quite a bit.
I’d say your argument against prepping and off-roading is entirely mitigated by the fact that you can get the forester and crosstrek in manual transmissions. If CVT is your main issue Subaru has a solution.
They have been so consistently bias they reject all evidence pointing otherwise. Subaru’s in other countries are sold with low range and are regularly used for more serious off roading.
Alex Kostenyuk I have a Baja 5spd and took it off-roading stock and it did amazing. just bought a wrx to be my daily driver. So plan on beefing Baja for off-roading fun.
When you compare the Subaru at the end of your video against the Honda CR-V being no more off road Worthy. Do you ever consider the symetrical all wheel drive to be a much better system than the Honda's front wheel drive bias all wheel drive system. It seems alot of reviews don't really dive into different all wheel drive systems.
Well let me start with, I own a 2000 Jeep Cherokee on 35” tiers for rock crawling. In 2015 I purchased a outback for work travel (~2000mi/mo). I am 6’6” and I chose the outback because it’s overall a great vehicle and I fit in it with room to spare. I live in Northern California and the Rubicon is my playground. As I started venturing out into the Nevada desert and the outback is the better option for comfort. I was amazed at how well this vehicle work in an overland environment... until I was met with an approach angle I could not handle without ripping off my front bumper cover. So I turned around, I had just came down a rather long steep smooth decent and let’s just say I figured out the hard way that the outback had a climbing impediment. This was inconceivable to me, such a simple task. No go, like an blown torque converted. I tried everything . I was stuck in the NV desert 100+ degrees without cell service. One good thing was my buddy and I each had small shovels and we’ll we had to literally dig our way out re-sloping the terrain to allow passage all the while keeping my bumper covers intact. My outback is now outfitted with method wheels with cooper AT tiers, I will be lifting my Subaru (haven’t decided how much 1, 2, or 3”) not so it will become a rock crawler but so it will have better approach and departed angles in similar conditions mentioned above. I will carry at least a come along if not a small electric winch (just in case). The idea here is to advance its off road capabilities without disturbing the on road drive ability. The rim / tire combo has improved on and off road drive ability 500% with the byproduct being 50% tire noise increase and 10% fuel economy decrease. By far a huge improvement IMO. This car is all about comfort and drivability for me. My outback will never do what my Jeep can do, that why I have both! Also Subaru Outback does have a manual transmission option in some countries! This surely would solve the can’t climb issue. Thanks for all the great videos! David
The problem is the manual version of the Crosstrek is terrible. It has even less power and without a low range even small hills will stall the engine at lower speeds. Basically it comes down to Subaru's (modern) being terrible for even forest roads because they lack a low range.
I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
@@Stuka87 I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
@@Stuka87 Exactly! The SG MT low range Forester I owned was already not that great in that regard. The combination of a weak clutch, basically no low-end torque and way to high throttle response made you to not want to crawl anything. Good luck backing up a hill with a trailer... The 6 speed manual is even worse quite a bit. The CVT with all it's weaknesses is still better for that task in my experience.
It’s funny, I was on the fence of getting an Outback for a long time, but thanks to these guys and their videos it helped me make a decision. I figure if Tommy has to work as hard as he does to hate on this car, it must be pretty good. Overall, I love my Outback, so thanks, ha.
Hey, that’s actually my Crosstrek in a few of those still shots that I brought into the TFL offices for a video, but it’s not lifted. It stock heigh. And truth be told, I’m very realistic about the abilities of said car. I know its shortcomings. I don’t beat it up. Hell, 99% of the time, it’s used to drive to work, the kiddo’s daycare, and whatnot. I just put the KO2’s on there for a little bit of better off-road/snow grip.
The Yellow Cursor: I see that but what about size? Wheel brand and size? Sorry, I should have been more specific but I don’t know how to replicate that look on my Crosstrek, and I’m not a sophisticated modder.
I'm on my second Subaru Forester. First a 2002 with regular automatic and now a 2017 with CVT and 'X-mode". I like both cars. The 2002 is superior off road hands down. Not long after I bought the 2017 I took it to a steep dirt hill I had been up and down many times. I put it in x-mode and attempted to climb the hill. It made it about half way and powered out without spinning a wheel! I learned later the computer had cut power to protect the CVT. If you want to off road in a Subaru you DO NOT want the CVT.
"thousands of dollars" quality lift kit with trailing arm spacers - $400 New set of AT tires - $600 i live on 3 miles of dirt roads that looks like a world war 1 battlefield full of craters and trenches during the rainy season, not everyone wants to "ROCK CRAWL"
@@vikingselph5475 Ebay will have 2" lift kit with trailer arm spacers for about $400-AUS. That's a good quality kit with camber adjusted spacers you can fit with a few simple mechanics tools in a day.
@@supercooled maybe so, but I'd trust a Japanese vehicle over anything Korean, most European vehicles (including the kitty from Hades), and all American cars. Maybe I'm biased, but my bias was hard earned driving and fixing my parents' Dodge/Plymouth cars (and others owned by other friends/relatives), the 5 VW cars my wife & I have owned, several 'Benzes (including my wife's current W210 E320), and my 1998 Toyota Camry with well over 452,000 original miles. After doing a handful of head-gaskets on various vehicles, my first complete overhaul was a 1977 Datsun 280Z. In my current Camry which is approaching half-a-million, I go camping, tow a trailer, and otherwise erase "gentle" & "cautious" from the dictionary. Have fun with a Stinger, just don't cry when it becomes a money pit. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru now. I'm looking for a used Forrester with 5-on-the-floor and I'll keep my Camry too.
“Why hasn’t Subaru met that need” That’s the question I keep asking GM about making a factory Raptor competitor. My next truck will not be a Chevy that’s for sure, all my adult I been working my up in my career to afford one. Once I pass my current truck down to my kid, I’ll be getting the Raptor.
Since the Blazer was announced I knew GM would go the "safe" route instead of the dynamic route and make another vanilla crossover with it. They didn't need another one. That was their number one opportunity to build a direct competitor to the Raptors and Wranglers that already existed. They could have brought it back as the utilitarian off-road monster with tech and esthetic upgrades. The 4Runner is still beyond capable off-road but maintains a comfortable street presence. Sure, the market dictates what sells and risk is rarely rewarded in the auto industry. The trouble with that base argument is that interest drops with stagnation. Ford didn't need to make a full Raptoor package but they did and it works. Ram doesn't need a Power Wagon but it works. GM taking the safe route with Z71 and Traill Boss packages may have worked in the past, but this current market wants substance. Don't dress up a Silverado LTZ and call it special. No one cares about a Colorado ZR2. Anyone who's serious about what they want to do with their money and hobbies wants, needs, that factory direct offering. Unless someone has a large sponsorship or an insane amount of personal funding they're not going to spend $50k on a trim level just to double that in aftermarket accessories to make it functional. What GM should have done? New Blazer, starting price $35-40k. That price including current tech packages and comforts, decent ground clearance for overlanding, and only available in RWD or 4WD. Engine options starting with an NA v6 but includes options for a turbo i4 or v6. Upgrades could include locking rear ( and maybe front) diff, articulation/ lift packages, accessory pre-wiring, skid plates (of course), and other useful off road items (think winch, roof mounted gear basket, brush guards, snorkel). Sorry for the rant, but sometimes the careful route only works offroad, ironically enough, where GM dares not tread.
I lifted my Subaru Crosstrek 2" with Geolander G015 tires and a roof rack. Loved it. Had people always asking me about it and wanting to buy it. Not a serious killer offroader, but did modify approach and departure angles. I think it had right at 10.8" clearance.
Subaru may not be doing the lifts from the factory, but many dealerships are doing them as dealer options. Every time I take my Forester up to gillman in Houston. They've always got a couple of lifted XVs or Outbacks or Foresters on the lot. With at least one in the showroom. Sitting on a 2 inch lift and more aggressive tires and wheels.
My son lives in Portland and he has an Outback. While visiting him last summer, we went to his local Subaru dealer for service, and I noticed a couple of brand new lifted Outbacks in their showroom! So, dealers are doing this all over the country.
I love how your world view here seems to assume that the very next stop after well graded dirt roads and light snow is extreme rock crawling. I agree that a lot of drivers are probably over modifying their Subarus. The approach and departure angles are too shallow for any modest lift to be of much (any) help in rock crawling situations. While that may be what shows up in Subaru TH-cam videos (guys doing heavy off roading in their heavily modified Outbacks and Forresters), day to day most Subaru drivers who are going off road just need a little extra clearance to make it through the small short rough sections that pop up here and there while exploring off road. Adding 2" oversized tires on 1" smaller wheels makes a big difference in capability off road here, and while that change does not require a lift on these cars, adding an extra 1" - 2" of body clearance will help at least a little in modest off road situations. Can you make a stock Outback to the same stuff as a lightly modified one? Probably, but at least I'd feel too close to the limits of my vehicle then. Another point I totally disagree with is the cost factor. When I bought my 2016 Outback last year (leaving behind two decades in Toyota Land Cruisers and Tacoma's) I did so because my comparable vehicle of choice, a similarly aged 4runner, was always going to be at least $8 - $10k more than the Subaru. I can change out the tires, wheels, add a 1.5" lift and maybe a little underbody armor up front for when I forget my limits, for less than half that cost difference. I think you guys are making sound arguments in general but it ignores the middle ground where I suspect most Subaru owners are when it comes to off road use.
I just bought the 2023 crosstrek Sport in Canada and after watching this video i can't wait to install the 2 inch lift kit i bought last week and i also bought on sale for $978.00 4 x 235/65R17 tires for my oem rims power coated gloss black where i work instead of the 225/60R17. This will add 4 inches at the rockers. Why?. It will ride smoother with bigger tires and easier to get in and out of and ..my opinion makes it look better. Also adding the Forester black hood stripe and black 3.5 inch side stripes at the bottom of the doors. Carbon fibre door handle guards. Rain guards for the windows and a tinted covers for the rear lights. Interier changes are the ice blue dome and map lights. Easy to change. The rest is just my own personal touches. I'm doing this just because i can and yes. To be unique just like me. My Subaru Crosstrek. Love it...
I wanted to touch on a couple of points that you guys have made, the first one is the cost of the additions. Subaru lift kits in general are actually quite affordable and when we install one here at the shop with tires, wheels and an alignment our customers are paying on average $3,000. Of course the tire and wheel option plus other products we have will move that price up and down. The other is the lifts do help the cars off road from the added ground clearance. Everything we sell will not hinder ground clearance so the customer reaps all of the benefits of being able to tackle the trails with more confidence over a stock height Subaru. 3rd, the road manners. I have lifted all different kinds of trucks over the years and can agree with enhancing off road capabilities will take away from road handling. A RalliTEK lifted car with the top hat spacers and springs actually handles quite well on the pavement and in some cases actually handles better than a stock car. We are doing some cool things with Subarus over here in Oregon, it would be great to have you guys out to tag along with us!
I got my 2016 3.6r lifted at RalliTek with their 2 inch body spacers and springs. I can say my OB handles better on the road now because of the stiffer springs. Less body roll in the corners.
I learned how to drive in a Justy, 5 speed push button 4x4 on the stick. I drove that down ATV trails, logging roads and horse pastures in the Adirondacks. I would buy another one today and drive it any where while feeling 100% confident!
Greeting from Australia I’ve got a Subaru Legacy wagon with a 2inch lift kit. The vehicle isn’t used for extreme off road like rock climbing etc it’s used to drive on fire trails to access hunting spots etc.
My 07 forester is just amazing how it handles dirt roads. I've done 5 000 km at about 90 km/h and I had no trouble at all, and a lot of fun, burning less gas than a wrangler !
I use to drive a 2015 Forester XT and when I lifted it the driving dynamics were drastically changed (for the worse). The CVT died in that vehicle, so I traded it in for a Honda Passport (because the Pilot and Ridgeline did so well in your videos and conquered gold mine hill quite easily). The Passport has the same 4-low thats in a Jeep renegade/compass trailhawk. Anywho, when I lifted it, there was no noticeable change in driving dynamics. For those that are looking to live the Subaru life with a bit more capability and comfort, the Honda Passport is an awesome solution. The reason for the trade in was due in part to the CVT failure, because it would just happen again, and then I’d be stuck with a $8-9k repair. But it was mostly because i saw how much more capable an older Subaru was with the 4EAT transmission and I knew that the CVT could never compare. Now in case anyone might wonder why I didn’t get a 4Runner, I use to drive an 2008 FJ cruiser and that thing made a terrible daily driver and consumed way too much fuel. I wanted no part of that.
I have an R51 Pathfinder, it's body on frame but independent suspension all around. It's comfortable as hell and really a good/unique compromise to get the best of both worlds. There are lift options from 1.5 up to 7 inches suspension + body. With a modest 2" suspension lift and 32's it drives better than it did from the factory. On road its biggest drawback is fuel economy though (I average 12.4l.100km (19 mpg I believe), and offroad the only real drawback is the articulation, but the suspension travel is better than crossovers. It also stopped being made in 2012 so there is that too :)
My 2105 outback had a 2” lift and another 1” from overload springs then able to add larger tires on smaller rims. Loved it and hit Moab twice a year. I had no Offroad experience before the Subaru. No locking diff, no problem. It was significantly more comfortable than any Jeep or truck. That said, I replaced it with a Power Wagon.
I am going with Roman on this one. It’s pretty amazing where you can actually go with a Subaru right out of the box. Not everything needs massive skid plates, supper low gearing and lockers everywhere plus a $2500 set of knobby off road wheels and tires. As a kid, I remember seeing plane Jane economy cars up mountain trails where a street car had no right to be. One day I was with my dad. Looking for firewood. But really, he was just out having fun. He decided to follow this steep seriously rutty trail up the side of the mountain. Probably a quarter to half a mile long. He was in his 69 ford F100 pickup. He had special ordered it with the options he wanted. They included a FE 360 engine, a heavy duty 4 speed transmission with granny gear, uprated springs, 15 inch wheels, 6 ply tires with town and country grip tread on the back and a heavy duty limited slip rear axle with 4:10 gears in it. This was a tough solid truck. The first one he bought he could not break. Anyway, getting up that hill was not easy. Lots of spitting rocks out the back, tire smoke, bouncing around, multiple restarts, noise and dust. Kind of like the hill you broke the Ram Rebel transfer case on. After we got to the top of that road, we crest the hill and what do we find? A mint green with white roof 1962 AMC Rambler American 2 door coupe with stock tires and hubcaps, a six cylinder, automatic sitting there covered in dust. Without any scrapes, dents or scratches. How it got up that same road we had just come up was truly surprising and amazing. Corvair pickups were darn good off road too.
I lifted an Impreza 2.5rs and sti swapped it. It has 10 inches of clearance and rock rails. It rips and I love it. I’ve climbed tons of mountains around Montana and I love it so much
I’ve owned wrangler, 4Runner, GC, Tacoma, Tundra, CJ and now looking at Subie. Smaller, cheaper, comfortable and can handle where I go. All in the past were overbuilt, solid axel uncomfortable, lower mpg and bigger than needed.
"Why hasn't Subaru made a car to fill that need", bcause their sales are still growing, and they don't really need to. I get a lot of their surveys, and one of their surveys focused on off-road capabilities a lot, including low-range.
I've got a 2019 forester that I just slapped some A/T tires on, and I do want to get a 1.5 inch lift on it. The tires I got are the new wildpeak A/T trails which are meant for crossovers and only weigh 5 pounds more per tire than stock, and are more than capable of handling the kind of off road I'll be taking it on. Granted, I've been wanting a 4runner for years and have done a ton of research on them, but the cheapest 2wd new 4runner, is still 6k more than I paid for my forester, and the 4runner gets worse fuel economy than my old car which was from '92, and I live in a city. The forester is more than capable of going on rugged forest roads, and I'd like the lift just to help clear rocks that could be sticking up on the center of the trail. I ain't gonna be climbing mountains or going rock crawling.
If I decide to go on way more rugged roads than the forester can handle, I'll get a cheap Cherokee XJ, but as it is, I needed a daily driver that was good on fuel economy, wasn't a new jeep, and could handle the trails near me.
My 2018 Outback is comfortable, spacious, fuel efficient and a great 4 season (although winter often endures through April here in Wisconsin) vehicle. This is my 3rd Outback and will be the last one; in fact, I am done with Subaru. Next in line is a Tacoma Off-Road when the lease matures. The CVT performs atrociously in cold weather; it strains and whines until it reaches optimal operating temp. I cannot imagine taxing the transmission with more weight and tire diameter. Tommy is right on!
Great advice from both of you...but here we are in 2022 and a used 2020 Crosstrek is going for $25k and the same model year 4Runner is running $37k. Yes, I wanted a 4Runner but my wallet dictates something less. Appreciate the video.
I know I'm late to the game on this old vid but wanted to toss my 2 cents in. I took my 2019 Forester Sport up nearly all of Colorado's class 3-5 4x4 "jeep" rated roads. Including the Lead King Basin Road and up to 9800' on Lake Como Road(no, I was not going to attempt Jaws). I had installed the scrape plate, 2" ReadyLift kit(pre and post fix), and K02's. Yes, the Subaru's have their limits and cannot do what hyper dedicated off-road vehicles can do. But they can go up many roads with solid knowledge of how to drive them. And the x-mode does work(sometimes). You just need to give it time to figure itself out. Now I have a Forester Wilderness and plan on lifting it either with a full suspension swap or spacers again. And I'll keep crawling up with all the Jeeps, 4Runners, and Tacos. :) Happy Trails y'all.
With the more modern Subarus the key is to keep it simple. Tires and lights and it will get you to any campsite off the beaten path. It won't climb rocks, it won't do what a jeep can, but it also won't cost what a jeep can
YES! Adding lights to mine as we speak...gotta find a reason to swap tires thought as mine are only 2yrs old....all seasons....07 Forester Already got new headlights and Baja wheels....made the car look updated and modern...only has 118k on clock...
And it also won't break as often as a Jeep and will ride better the 99% of the time you're not on trails. They act like it's a point of pride to break inferior Jeep OE parts and upgrade them with better aftermarkets. I've gotten scratches and tore a bumper, but never broken anything mechanical offroading my Subarus.
Great Video!! Subaru sells every vehicle that they make and are at capacity so they really don't care at this point about lifting or putting a transfer case in it. It's the same reason why Subaru isn't putting a turbo in the Crosstrek; they sell every one they make with the weak engine that gets mediocre fuel economy. I have a 19 Crosstrek and it's a great car but it's pretty boring and I wish it had a darn Turbo. Also if you cut power to the CVT and it can't make it up the hill they won't break and there won't be a warranty claim. Subaru is making a safe a sane car that's profitable. Their marketing shows young people with an active lifestyle taking their Subaru to the camping spot with mountain bikes, camping equipment and kayaks. So use the vehicle to get you to the active lifestyle spot. They also market it as a very safe vehicle that we should pass down to our kids and then buy another new one for yourself. You really don't see them climbing difficult trails or rock climbing. I'm not disappointed with buying my Crosstrek; its just a really reliable, conservative, safe and sane car and not very exciting which is really why I bought it in the first place.
I considered this when I got my crosstrek. I think there ability of the CVT equipped AWD is better. It will actually shift power front to rear and vice versa. In their video with the Outback going up gold mine hill, when you set it up right, the vehicle just takes a minute to figure out where the torque should go.
My two cents, but I ran my 2019 Crosstrek in 6MT up hills with softball sized rocks and sand while crossing a few small creeks with relative ease. It has enough power for what's within it's limits. Ultimately, I believe it comes down to the skill and confidence that the driver has in their vehicle and skill set. But that's just my opinion, friend.
I put a two inch lift and an LED bar on my 2006 Legacy. I could have just bought an Outback, but I like the way mine looks. It’s fun to drive and great in the mud.
Would you pay 40k for a Crosstrek? We have a 2021 Crosstrek Sport, the one with the 2.5L engine. 1.5 inch lift, offroad tires and rims. 37k. An STI Crosstrek would be around 40-45k. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
My 2003 forester with a 2 inch lift and larger tires as done everything my 4wd GMC truck with 285s could do. Mud, river crossing and deep snow, the forester has been a lot better on trails bc it is small I can easily turn around on tight trails..... with out hitting trees like with my bigger truck!
As owner of Subaru’s since 1993 , I completely agree with you guys. It is just the way to understand that Subaru are amazing off road vehicles but you need to accept their limitations....it is not a jeep!!!!!
I have an 2016 Outback that I use as a daily driver. I go camping monthly via a teardrop trailer (timberleaf) , as well as a annual two week road trip to national parks. I sometimes need off-road capabilities here and there, mostly just some mud, snow, or a modest trail. Apart from putting a small roof rack for gear, as well as tow hooks and new rims for aesthetics, I haven’t done much else besides some solid Falken Wildpeak AT Trail tires which are the only thing really helping me much off road. I chose the Falken tires over BF Goodrich ko2s because of the weight difference and my desire for less noise during highway driving, since they were built for crossovers and vehicles like subarus. I think this choice was a good compromise. I might add a modest 1in lift, a spare tire mount (miss it from my RAV4), and a small front grille guard for aesthetic reasons - I don’t see any real reason to do anything else, for the same reasons you discussed in this video. I bought a Subaru cause it had great fuel economy that also had awd and a little clearance. I agree it wouldn’t make the best over landing vehicle.
I love my Crosstreks! Got one of the first ones in 2013 and have since upgraded to a 2019. Its perfect for highway driving and it will also get me to most all of the trailheads. I thinks its cool to add visual mods, but Im not doing anything to jeopardize the comfort or good gas mileage.
I got my subaru for a daily driver that I can take down some rough roads and mild trails. I like the versatility and fuel mileage. Another huge bonus is how easy it is to work on. Subarus are the easiest cars I’ve ever worked on.
Just ordered a Subaru.Can you provide an update? I plan to use my forester in a similar way. Also intrigued by the fact it’s easy to work on. I’d love to relearn how to do the easy maintenance.
Great conversation. Appreciate your approach to this discussion. As a new Outback owner I quickly was taken by the lifted and big tire modified Subarus on social media. I personally like the look and know that it’s not going to make my wagon a rock crawler. I camp and backpack and just needed a car that would handle the backcountry roads to a trailhead or campsite.
They have a wilderness outback. Nice real nice. But they do need to rewind a bit & think about a better, stronger transmission auto & manual. Can you hear me Subaru !!!!!!!
I was really torn between a dedicated 4x4 and a subaru for my last vehicle purchase. But when I was really honest with myself, I drive hours on the highway to get somewhere interesting to do 30 minutes to an hour off pavement. And when I'm off road, I'm mostly interested in scenic drives and accessing remote trailheads, not crawling over bashy rock ledges slower than I could walk them. Subarus are popular because they straddle the divide for people who have to use their cars on pavement too and only want to own one vehicle. The new wilderness editions in particular do a really good job striking a balance between competing priorities. It is kind of a bummer though once you own a subaru it starts to become glaringly apparent how certain segments of the offroad community really seem to enjoy gatekeeping and judging. I guarantee I've taken my subaru into a much larger array of remote environments than the average jeep owner
For me I love my Subaru Forester. This is the 2nd one I have owned. I love it for road trips, good space, mpg, awd, and the ability to go off roads. For me off roads and nice trails I find in nature. Maybe some hills, camping, etc. I never cared for rock crawling and love my Subaru for everyday drive.
They need to build a Subi with about 10.5in of ground clearance, locking diffs, all terrain tires, and shorter overhangs. I don't think those modifications would take much from the factory, nor would they significantly compromise the road worthiness of the vehicle. the hardest part would be engineering the diffs and beefing up the CV joints to deal with the increased angle of the slightly taller suspension and larger tires. A two speed transfer case would not work well with the symmetrical all wheel drive they use without some major re-engineering of the transmission but maybe a wider range within the CVT would do the same trick but again that is significant reworking of the design.
Subaru was always known for rally racing. There cars only come in Awd, and has been a partner to national parks for the past 30 years. Adventures is what Subaru was built for.
When I lived in Michigan I had a stock 2016 outback and often went on dirt trails and old logging roads, especially in the UP, with no problems. I've never done anything too extreme or went rock crawling, but for what I used it for I never had a problem. Even pulled off into a huge snow drift on the highway in Canada, snow was up to the door on the passenger side, and got out with x-mode. I am sure a different more capable 4x4 would have been better and faster, but for what it is the outback is a great car. I would not lift it though just because for what I've done the clearance now enough. Now I live in Japan and got a 2009 here. Edit to say this: the suby community is amazing. So many cool people who like hiking, nature, and helping each other. I can't speak for other communities, but from what I've read in the comments it seems the negative rumors have some weight.
I have a lifted crosstrek. X-mode is honestly not your friend when it comes to slipping with the CVT.. The best thing to do is traction control off and X-mode off. Then it will stay on the power and punch through.. Almost acting more like a locker.. I know x-mode is supposed to do that.. But it doesn’t.. It kills the power trying to divert it elsewhere, often leaving it nowhere.. In sand and snow x-mode is your friend.. On slick rock w-dirt and mud it might hinder you.. The key is to be persistent and try different combinations until you figure it out.. Go easy on that CVT transmission though.. 😅 It’s not a jeep.. That being said, I had a jeep on a 3” lift… And I think the Subaru is almost as capable on a shorter wheel base with 2” lift.. Not to mention a million times more comfortable.. Just have realistic expectations.. These little lifts are not harsh enough angles to harm the vehicle..
I'd be a hypocrite if I criticized someone for lifting a Subaru. My first car was a 1969 VW Bug. It was a rolling shell with a clear title when my dad bought it and gifted it to me for my fourteenth birthday. Growing up in Southern California, the so-called "Baja Bugs" were a pretty common sight when I was a teenager. Lifted, with aftermarket fiberglass body parts, and exposed engines...... I liked to hunt and fish, so I looked to "Baja" to make my "Bug" a better fit for my lifestyle. I kept the stock body parts, but I did lift the car. I ran BFG AT's on it -235/75 on the rear, 215/75's on the front. I managed to get a Quaife limited-slip somewhere, and that went in the transaxle, along with lower ring and pinion gears. I fabbed a skid plate to protect the engine and transaxle. Engine was a 2.3 liter..... Added on a roof-rack.... It was better off-road than a lot of people might suppose, in spite of not having a low range gear set or drive to the front wheels. I had to use momentum, certainly. But the independent suspension let me do it in a way that I couldn't have in a CJ Jeep without bearing the crap out of myself or the vehicle. I couldn't go down every trail I'd been on as a passenger and sometimes driver in the four-wheel drives my dad and uncles had. But I could go places in that off-road modded VW that I didn't have a prayer of getting to in the '66 Mustang GT I bought when I was 18. Out on the high desert, it was actually BETTER than a Jeep, in my mind. I could get from one quail or chukar hunting spot to the next a whole lot faster in my Bug, without beating the crap out of my kidneys. A friend of mine, who had experienced what the Bug could do off-road, ended up doing something similar to the Porsche 914 he "inherited" from his parents when he was old enough to get his license. That thing was quite the car and he kept it as his "quail hunting and fly fishing car" until he passed away seven or eight years ago. He always said that if he needed more off-road capability than he had in order to get somewhere, he'd be happier to get as far as he could in the Porsche then walk the rest of the way, rather than drive a Jeep all the way. So, I reckon if someone wants to lift their Subaru, who would I be to say "no" to that?
I feel this on a personal level because I drive that same style lifted crosstrek, but let me explain my logic. @CarolinaCrosstrek The 2008 Wrangler JKU (4" Fox Performance lift, 35" KO2's) I had before this was an offroad machine. I've broken axle shafts, coil springs, my transmission, it was an absolute money pit. Not to mention I got 10-13mpg, and with all the driving I had for school I was spending over $100/week on gas. I was basically almost always broke. Cue the accident. I got death wobble on an exit ramp and ended up sliding off the road and into a tree. I spent hundreds of dollars with new tie rods, steering stabilizers, adjustable track bars, but nothing fixed the death wobble problem. The vehicle was unsafe for daily driving use at highway speeds. I got the Subaru after that and started saving for mods. 9 months later, i got everything. And being I don't want to go on crazy hard jagged mountainside trails anymore with a daily driver, I lifted it so I could do the small trails more easily. 2" Readylift kit and General Grabber AT/X's. The CVT with the updated X-mode in my 2018 hasn't let me down on the trails so far, it's pretty capable. And the best part is, even with all the mods, i'm getting 23-25mpg, and spending $160/month on gas with a maintenance bill of ~$200 for the life of the car (oil changes, air filters) so far, it's saving me a ton of money over my old jeep. EDIT: it kinda looks like a rally car/overlander hybrid. I love it! Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions about the build.
Kevin Long if you are using the crosstrek that way I recommend changing cvt fluid and differential oil out every 30k miles, easy enough to do yourself. Will save you in the future.
Dude, Roman is still upset Subaru won’t lend TFL vehicles. TFL had an outback for a while (they bought it themselves) and the only thing they did was add snow tires I think. I don’t see what’s wrong with a vehicle that is more reliable, has five star crash tests, better fuel economy AND a bit more off road worthy. Not everyone hits the Rubicon trail on their way to work.
Zachary Sielck I really hope FCA gets there. I’m happy about foreign people coming here to work. That’s what makes america great. My experience with FCA hasn’t been great. The amount of silly things I have had to fix on a 2013 grand caravan is absurd. It takes time to prove reliability, but FCA hasn’t proven to me like a company like Subaru.
@@alfu6180 on this same idea, their outback is from like 2010-2014, Subaru's done a ton of new software on the new generations on the global platform. There's now 3 different types of X-mode rather than just the 1 on their older model.
I owned a wrangler before. I loved it, offroad; however, in the city with the low mileage x gallon, the road noise, and not comfortable for long trips I decided to look for something else. Keep in mind that going off road doesn't mean crawling vertical rocks. Basically the offroading I was doing with my jeep, I am doing in with my unlifted 2019 Forester Touring. The difference? Much better mileage, super comfortable and roomy. I have been to deep snow, sand, and offroad. Subaru may not be the first in crazy offroading, but is the best in everything I do
I have an XJ. I've only used 4Lo twice and both times was on a steep hill with a trailer. In 4Hi it just wouldn't go once I was about 3/4 of the way up. Put it in 4Lo and it crawled right up with no problem. 4Lo is rarely needed but at times it will be the difference between continuing on and turning around.
Eh? Tommy thinks 8.7” of ground clearance is “tremendous” and “plenty” for deep snow? That’s absurd. There are TONS of places I can’t take my Outback because it’s not high enough. The CVT has NEVER been a limiting factor for me - it’s ALWAYS the ground clearance that limits the car first. Another 2-4 inches would make worlds of difference in capability.
This is simply a difference of the definition of off road. Can a lifted Subaru rock crawl like a built out jeep, no, will it give you better ground clearance off road and on some rougher terrain, yes.
DustinB855 my 01’ Forester 5 speed manual allegedly came with a limited slip diff 😂. its the S trim package so it came fully loaded even with heated seats. i just bought it but i wanna buy the 2” lift kit that they sell for the SF chassis Foresters online. just gotta figure out what size tires i want.
35 years of offroad and dirt road driving in the outback is my starting point. I'll say this. I've seen 4 door sedans with highway tires in places half of the people with mall crawlers couldn't get to on their best day. If you want to take your subie somewhere silly and play in the mud, that's up to you. Drive it like you're afraid to break it, walk obstacles before you drive them and drop about 20psi out of your tires when you get to the mud/ soft sand, and you will be OK. When, not if, but when, you do get stuck, be just as gentle getting it out as you were getting it stuck. A shovel will get you out of more trouble than 35 inch mud tires will. Dropping tire pressures will save you breaking out the winch 90% of the time. The driver matters more than the fruit added on aftermarket. Don't believe me? Search YT for "Haylz driving ford falcon 2wd passed bogged 4wds at inskip". That's a non lifted 2WD equivalent of a crown vic on highway tires driving on a infamously boggy beach. Low tire pressure and momentum is how.
The issue with the trans is a massive issue. My 2001 outback has been offroad but didnt involve huge rocks. It has involved snow, heavy rain with muddy water covered roads in storms. That is what I want from my suby. It fulfills my needs. I had a jeep for serious offroading.
You guys should do a test. Get a lifted Subaru with AT tires and test its off-road worthiness. Compare it to the Cherokees as well as other AWD SUVs (CRV, RAV4, etc...). I’d love to see the scientific results.
offroading subarus of colorado I have a trail hawk now but I had a forester before the TH. both stock, I wouldn’t even think about taking the forester where I’ve taken the Trailhawk. And the forester was before they started putting cvt’s on them. It’s a great car for snowy roads and all.
I have a 1.5 Impreza from 2008. It is manual 4x4 AND has low range. I want to lift it for snow as it is very low. But no, i am not going offroad any more than a dirt(snow) road to the country house.
It’s not the CVT which cuts power in the Subaru it’s the traction control, you simply need to switch this off. My 2010 outback 3.6R does not have a CVT, it’s a 5 speed auto and when there’s a wheel lift, the power cuts off. I just switch off the TC and it keeps going- simple. So please learn this and stop saying the CVT cuts power.
Hi guys! Let me say first... I love your Channel! You guys hit the topics just right! Always enjoyable!!! I have to respond to this one... Tommy ... you are too funny! My opinion it’s not about the ultimate Moab monster it’s simply enjoying Overlanding and like Roman said modifying your rig while knowing your limitations. I have a 2017 Crosstrek and have been planning my mods slowly. Reality is it’s my daily commute and when like when the my tires need replacement I will buy a set of Black Rhino rims with KO2s. Small steps. Point being is some folks don’t want to spend over $50 k on a rig. It’s more the challenge of upgrading what you have and can afford and what off-roading I want to do. Roman said it ... this is AMeriCa! Like I figured out how to use my Garage door opener button on the rearview mirror to turn on the off-road lights with out going through the firewall. Will I do Moab ... no. My point is: I can enjoy getting out there on a budget, and there are a lot of channels out there for Subarus along with basic Overlanding channels like Ronny Dahl (Australia) who explain the basic techniques on what you need to do Overlanding for any vehicle with safety in mind. (Tommy ... there is safety involved here. Knowing your vehicle limitations and basic outdoor survival) You know it would be cool to see you invite Donald from Softroadingthewest and watch what his Forrester can do. Just a thought. Ps.. there is a new Torq locker product for a Subaru. Another cool innovation for us Subaru folks who want to off-road the next level.
This. I’m really hoping to buy a 2020 Outback or Forester. I don’t need anything crazy or overly capable and expensive (4Runner and Wrangler). Just some light off-road fun on a budget.
MacMichael Henson-Rogers I hear you! The cool part is to put together street worthy and off-road capable. It can be done. Sure it’s not a super capable 4Runner or Jeep... but the cool part is support out there for Subarus. I’m not gonna get a VW T because I’ve already fooled around with air bladders, and they are expensive to replace. I had a Range Rover 2006 nightmare! Check out this outback: th-cam.com/video/sMq5Q-JYbOg/w-d-xo.html
Karl Sturzebecher that’s pretty sweet! I’m debating whether to go Limited with more options or Onyx XT for the turbo. I’ve heard Subaru turbos don’t last, and that’s a concern since I supposed to keep my next purchase long term.
MacMichael Henson-Rogers - I agree. Wife bought the 2019 6 cylinder last year. I heard the 2020 would carry the turbo. Maybe you can find a 6 cylinder or look at the Forrester.
I have only added the lift, tires and wheels to mine (so far), but I have had zero issues with my Crosstrek going over rough terrain. I built mine as an overlander, not a crawler, which I'm pretty sure most of the modified Subies you see out there were designed to be. I do plan on dropping a lot more mods into mine, but I bought it and built it with the mentality that I wanted to go places that normal cruisers couldn't. I've taken it over rough desert terrain and some rocky. I also don't agree about the sacrifice of comfort for the lift, at least in the Crosstrek's case. Yes I did definitely lose some of my EPA but the comfort is still there. I do plan on starting my own TH-cam channel for the car once I get further along in the build. I hope this has given you some insight to at least this lifted Subaru owner's mentality. Also didn't you guys just do a segment on a lifted Subie?
I'd be interested in seeing you guys get your hands on a manual Crosstrek. I've got a 2018 with the CVT. I put a mild all terrain tire on it, the Continental Terrain Contact, and with that it's nearly perfect for what I want (dirt roads that need decent ground clearance, and handling whatever weather nature throws at me). The CVT hasn't let me down anywhere yet, but I do lament not getting the manual some days. Other than that, if it had a bit more power and a shorter chin it'd be in the sweet spot for the "many terrain" vehicle I'm looking for.
Disagree with low range gearbox being first. Spun one tire when locked in often. Even got stuck diagonal teeter totter on flat ground. I am choosing lockable differential . Granny gear is a close second. Entry and exit angles third. Cooling upgrade fourth.
TFL is kind of missing a pretty important factor. Snow. Subarus are excellent in the snow. The only thing limiting subarus in the snow is clearance. Which makes a lift an obvious choice. Especially in Canada where I live
Like the video says, my head agrees with Tommy, my heart agrees with Roman.
Another consideration, the BFGs are too heavy for this rig. Get a P rated A/T tire like the geolander so you can improve traction without all the weight.
Roman is right, Subaru is leaving $ on the table by not offering a legit off road subaru.
I just got the wildpeak a/t trails for my forester. Those tires are specifically made for crossovers and while they're not as capable as a KO2, they're more than enough all terrain for my subie and only weighs 5 pounds more per tire than the stock ones.
The geolander g015 is a pretty decent tire
The dealerships are doing one-off upgrades. My dealership has a lifted crosstrek with 2" lift, method 302 wheels, off road tires, push bar, basket. Looks great.
@@JDS-Dalton I did the same with my Outback XT. Subaru should've made the Wildpeaks standard equipment on the Forester Sport, Crosstrek, and the Outback XT Onyx Edition.
I have ko2s on my crosstrek and they are far from too heavy for it.
I drive a lifted Tacoma 4wd, and I like the Subie community. Most of the off road groups just want to go rock crawling some boring rock obstacles at 1 mph while denting and scratching their rigs, while most subie drivers just want to see nature and go on scenic trails. The latter is much funner to me.
The beauty of the Tacoma and similar is that you can do both! Where as the Subie can on only do one. I love technical rock crawling and scenic trails so thats what I do with truck. There is no reason with all new tech, that you cant build a vehicle that does everything, including rock crawling! A Subaru will get you far enough get into a situation you cant get out of!
Another thing the taco does better is dune bashing. I prefer smashing the gas pedal, climb a huge dune, and then slide all the way down. Occasional jumps are not that bad!
Off-roading is so diverse and everyone has a favorite!
I'm an oddball with a gmc envoy. Its got a 2in lift, 32in a/t, and some odds and ends. It rocks for long off road trips seeing nature and has the guts to deal with some obsticals. Well I went out with a jeep group this weekend where the whole trail was a rock obstical and your top speed all day is 6mph. I was amazed my rig made it and one of them even got stuck. But that kind of off roading I think im going to save for every now and then and I am more interested in the long distance overland-ish trips I was doing before. Which could be done in a wide variety of 4x4s.
I want my vehicle to where: if i suddenly get the itch, i can just yeet the bad boy off the road and up wooded the mountains going full steam ahead.
Or with snorkel...hop into the flood zone and pick up some stranded folks, and get out to a hospital and store.
Exactly
Lifted my Subaru after watching this video.
Lmao this made me laugh
My brother is about to lift his 2015 legacy because he tows a boat and if he has to go a lil off the road he can lol
I lifted my 05' forester. I got as big of tires as I could fit, used a 2" lift, as well as King lift springs all around. I added aluminum skid plates on the engine/oil pan, transmission and rear diff. I've lived in Alaska for several years and drove my subaru twice from Ohio through Canada to Alaska. I've driven through multiple Alaskan winters and NEVER gotten stuck anywhere. In fact, I've pushed and pulled several trucks out of ditches, when their overconfident drivers forgot that 4-wheel drive doesn't mean much on ice!
I've driven up mountains, through streams, over sand dunes, beaches, downed trees and the deepest mud or snow you could imagine driving through. Usually when my "truck" friends go for an off road ride in my subie, they tell me how they wish their trucks were more like my vehicle.
I'm by no means saying my forester could out-climb a tacoma or similar vehicle. I'm just saying, (short of driving specifically to a rock climb event) my forester has taken me EVERYWHERE I've ever needed it to, and some places I didn't!
@@Homecar220 i used to have a 02 forester that I loved but wrecked it had to get a new car. Thinking of getting another one thats a few years newer and getting a lift kit and roof rack tent so i could go and stay literally anywhere. But i was worried about how reliable/worth it a lift kit would be on a subaru vs a truck/realSUV. This comment has given me much more confidence in thinking about the subaru thanks lol.
@@flowerasteroid6241 For sure. I live in Ohio now, but the snow still gets serious from time to time and with everything going on in the US, I still may need those skid plates!
This argument boils down to your definition of “off road”. Not everyone wants to rock crawl, but just because you’re not rock crawling doesn’t mean you’re not “off road” and that’s where I think the elitist thing comes into play. Jeep people feel like the only true off roading is taking your rig to some boulder filled oasis and running it up 60 degree canyons and if you’re not doing things like that then you’re not really off-roading and I disagree. To me off roading is simply that, running your rig where there are no roads and there are plenty of places where suped up subies are capable of going that fit that definition. So to me the whole debate is simply based in the elitist idea by traditionalist Jeep guys that if you’re not doing it like us then you’re not really doing it and that just simply isn’t true. Great video guys ✌🏽
I couldn't have said it any better., that's well-explained!
I agree. People do this with everything. Check out gun vids. Gun snobs have a problem with any gun that doesn't start off at $600.00 plus. Do what works for you.
What you are talking about falls into overlanding and not necessarily offroading. Tommy is making a case of a stock subaru where the user is not necessarily imcreasing the vehicles ability to offroad better relative to the money they are spending.
Hell a big percentage of Jeeps never even see dirt! All that matters is does it work for you? Are you happy with it? Then who cares! Still paying off my daily driver jeep so the last thing I want to do is break an axle on boulders!
Subarus as they stand currently are no more off-road worthy than a Prius.
So no it’s not an elitist thing, matter of fact these Subarus owners never ending boast about how off road capable their “battlewagons” are.
Meanwhile anyone with a true 4x4 knows they could never hang off-roading.
Just bought an Outback. My first Subaru. I know 90% or more of driving will be on the street but I want to explore light offroad and get into camping spots. I think there are a lot of people like me out there and why Subaru is doing so well.
Totally agree, that's the whole reason I got my little 04 outback, subaru fills the casual outdoor niche very well
@@big.gib.4Lit doesn't even really need to be casual. It's just not for rock crawling. People take subarus into some of the harshest environments. Obviously the old ones with low gears are better for some things.
That’s about 60% for why I wanted my Outback. Just trail driving deep into the Green Mountains in Vermont!
This is exactly why i bought a Forester, some occasional rough roads that a car wouldn't make it down but the Subaru can. Not to mention how it handles in deep snow.
My wife has a completely stock 2018 Crosstrek and i drove it up some mining trails in Ricco Colorado where only Jeeps are normally allowed. The trails were made of basketball sized boulders and the Crosstrek drove right up it. I bottomed out a few times but took no damage. The only damage was from hitting a tree branch and breaking the window. I even have it on video.
I've had my outback go through muddy steep hills simply stock and moderate jeep trails one must just pay attention.
@@michaelbell390the key is don't be a shitty driver.
why does off road have to only mean rock crawling all the time?
Exactly, most of these lifted subarus including mine, are used mostly on dirt roads a little more clearence and better choice in meaty tires. Deff not rock crawling
There's no right or wrong here....
EXACTLY. Not me. Need FAST speed over Texas farm roads and can get out of deep sand.
Sometimes they seemed focused mostly on where they live and how they might use vehicles, but owners are all different and so are our needs. I didn't lift my Forester, but did up one size to an A/T tire with next to no sacrifice, but understand how it could benefit some doing a lift. In our 4X4 group we had outings of various difficulty and you knew ahead of time if you should take the CJ or if a CUV would be adequate. We had outings just for fun to get out in the woods and enjoy nature, and also had completion events for those into such. Sometimes we were amazed by the ability of some vehicles, and a couples times vehicles which looked impressive like an old style full size Blazer that looked like it should be on the cover of an off road supply company's catalog, but had to be rescued more than once by a plain old bare bones CJ or Landcruiser who just went through with ease. Don't know if the Blazer was the problem or the driver. TFL seems to really enjoy knocking Subaru. Toyota and Honda each have a vehicle which imply it is off road worthy, but you don't see them taking shots at them. They are getting like the grocery store tabloid of automotive reporting, headlines that make you look and no substance.
It doesn’t. He tailored his definition to fit the intended outcome of his video.
Never lift a Subaru
*Subaru:* sells a lifted Legacy Wagon as the Outback
Claudio Bizama
And a lifted Impreza as the Crosstrek
The market for used Toyota 4wd 4Runners and Tacomas is absolutely ridiculous. Way overpriced. So I got a 2005 Forester and lifted it. Works great for my use case.
You definitely will get a hernia.
Outback is lifted legacy.
but they lift it correctly in the factory. They actually raise the body so it is at the correct angle for the axles. When you do it yourself, your axles will not last too long.
I’m lifting my Subaru, not to rock climb but to go on the trails and travel around with it.
same here
@@mondo_burrito it's awesome , lifted 2" , KO2 tires and a roof top tent
i am going to the beach tomorrow will post on Instagram @bjdehoys_
@@bernardodehoyos3762 I wanted to check out your IG account to see your subie, but couldn't find it! :(
Yeah same. Even on non maintained dirt roads extra ground clearance can help quite a bit. Just want to be prepared for the sketchy stuff.
@@JohnHarvey it’s great, I have 12 inches of ground clearance and can go pretty much wherever I need it to go.
So I am a Jeep owner who has just purchased a 2003 Subaru Forester in the past three months. I have put a 2” ADF lift on it and added Cooper AT3’s to it with rims. Now the Subaru does have the 4EAT automatic transmission, 4 cylinder 2.5L and I have found that this little beast climbs really well and drive very nice with all the mods. So I have to say Tommy your wrong on off-road capability but right on it won’t go everywhere a Jeep will go. This rig is a very capable vehicle for the more moderate off-roading and highway use. By the way, I haven’t lost much of the handling with the lift and tires. This little Fozzi rocks for just pure fun.
Notice any extra Vibrations after the ADF lift? drive-ability is still ok?
@@jieiku no vibrations at all. I did get the transmission bushing for it as well but never used it.
I had a 2016 cross trek. I went down 1 size on the rims and put on general grabber AT2 tires. That little car took me everywhere I wanted to go. Now it wasn’t a “rock crawler” but with smart decisions I was able to get down most trails. I loved that car and eventually gave it to my daughter
The same argument can be made when trucks are lowered. Even though it limits the capability the truck was meant to have, it's ultimately the decision of the buyer.
I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
No kema cuh
Yeah, but Lowered trucks can't even drive on pavement half the time. I can understand a lifted Subie, but a lowered truck owner needs their license taken away for their sins.
I lifted my Forester 4 years ago without any problems and it gets me over bigger obstacles and the driving hasn’t changed. Cv joints are still looking great.
One with cvt?
Norse Viking Æsir 3cm
Ari Gonz manual 😉
What did that do to your MPG?
I wouldnt take it personally. They just really hate the outback for some reason lol. It's like this weird biased they put in all their videos. Every test they have done its completely biased lol. I actually love in a place where we get real snow unlike they do, and my outback has literally taken everything it's gotten thrown at it.
Totally disagree with Tom, there are plenty of Subaru's down here in Australia that are effectively some of the best multipurpose cars on the road. Fantastic handling, comfort and safety, but with a 2" lift a bullbar and some spotties they are incredibly capable.
I deny the idea that people lift Subaru's to keep up with a Jeep.
The reason people lift Subaru's is to get "that tiny bit further", without comprising on road dynamics. Jeep v Subaru on road there is no comparison, Subaru's stick like glue.
A lifted Subaru is an ultimate best of both worlds.
In saying this, I don't believe my argument stands true for the newer CVT Subaru's. They are trash!!! Old 5 speeds are way better.
My Forester XT had over 210kw, a small lift, snorkel, recovery gear and there was not a single national Park it couldn't reach! That thing had torque in every gear on a steep incline.
There's people that go off-road to reach nice secluded campsites, beaches and rivers. Then there's the people that use there car to mount cliffs and rocks.
Subaru people (generally) are practical and outdoorsy
@@dispatchesfromtheoutbackan8407 Wonderful, exactly.
Agree, I'm running a 2" lifted outback with 1.59:1 custom dual range AWD box, 12kgf centre diff, AT tyres etc and I love that it's super comfortable on a 1200km touring day, safe as houses on a wet twisty mountain pass or gravel roads out of town (I live in Tassie) but I can look down any shitty side track and not worry (famous last words) about getting stuck. This dude just doesn't get it, a Jeep is (very) good at one thing only. The (slightly modded) Subie is a swiss army knife.
Exactly, big disconnect on this video. moab monster? these are built for function. Whole other segment / market being skipped here.
Love it, perfect reply! Lifting mine now!
Yes, the whole TFL vs Subaru saga is really about how bad the Subaru CVT+AWD combo is.
I actually have my 2019 Subaru Forester stock besides some deeper tread, and I've tackled black diamond, and wrangler dedicated trails with ease not to mention drove through the 4-6 foot fresh powder that was dumped on Big Bear lake this last year, and did it with stock tires, with ease. I got this car for my two children for safety originally, and being an off road enthusiast I thought it was a minivan at first. After owning this car, and seeing how truly capable it is off road, I completely understand needing a lift, and a bit of extra clearance. I'm 29 and support the fathers opinion entirely.
-Angelo
Yeah the CVT sucks argument is old. You can't charge every hill but you also don't have to take the dumbest possible line every time to try to prove how much they suck for your youtube channel.
Lifted my forester simply to get bigger tire clearance to put snow tires on it for snowboard trips. That's it. I dont want/need a jeep or truck.
I have a bigger wheeled Chevy pick up to go to the mtn in that gets 14mph.....I also just got a bad ass AWD outback to go to the mtn that gets 29mph.
The offroad community sure does get in a twist because some subie boys want to go camping at some national parks lol
That's fine, if you feel safe protecting your home and family with a squirt gun, that's your prerogative.
@@UtahBigfoothunter I'll use my shotgun, but you can overcompensate if you want.
@@UtahBigfoothunter lol ye, since they need 38" tires and 6 inch suspension plus 2 inch body lift to conquer gravel roads.
@@UtahBigfoothunter
It's hard to protect your family if your wife rolls the thing on a commute and kills her and your kids when the body crumbles. Different tools for different jobs, I guess.
But it would be really nice if some of these 4X4s had roadworthiness and IIHS / NHTSA safety ratings as good as their off-road capabilities. I get the on-road trade-off, but I never could understand why "tough" trucks seemingly can't have good crash ratings.
Utah Bigfoot Hunter my 2005 Impreza has seen more mud than most people I know with lifted trucks
Sickest part about off-roading in a subie: Jeep boys- “how the hell did your lezbaru wagon get up here?!”
That a Jeep people issue haha
Lezbaru that's a good one
Haha, I always thought Lezbarus were specifically the Forrester
@@brucelafone2910 I thought it was the Outback... cuz baby got back.
I'm a lesbian stuck in a man's body. 🤣
There was a time when 4wd Subarus had a lever , near the center console, that allowed the driver to select 4wd hi or 4wd low. Subaru should bring that back.
I agree, I have a 2017 Forester diesel manual which is great. Continental A/T's and it's great. Would love the low range but also an Eaton Truetrac would also be nice.
they also had 2 wheel drive
They still do have low range gearboxes in other countries, and always have. Subaru of America just had their head up their butt and won't offer it here for some reason. If you really want one you can import the transmission, lever, and interior trim and slap it in relatively cheaply.
Jacob Burnette it’s probably because they don’t have a market in the US for it. In Australia they don’t sell a manual Subaru because they simply don’t sell.
@@ridelikeagirlaus8751 is that why I haven't come across a manual Fozz here in Oz yet?
I have a 23 wilderness and while I know this is an old video, my OBW is more than capable on moderate logging roads. I haven’t lifted it yet, but there were times where I would’ve felt a little more secure with an extra inch. The CVT did great and has yet to let me down.
I just want to go with my outback to the coolest campsite without scraping the life out of it, thats why
Word
Gents, I climbed a HUGE mountain here outside of Austin yesterday with a bunch of Jeeps around me (I have a TRD Pro) and there was a kid there with a Subaru with a 2" lift, a winch, etc, and he had zero trouble in some really impressive areas. I think it's also 95% skill and 5% vehicle. I don't think I'd have the skill to motor a Subaru but he certainly did and well.
To be fair, i take my 06 Saturn ion 2.2 ecotec 4spd manual, in places a lil family car probably shouldn't be lol.
The life of a delivery driver in a crater county.
The lil brat has handled 80k miles of unpaved, potholed, muddy, washboard road, curvy back road abuse.
Suspension has gotten loose and floppy...which ended up making it better lol.
That is so true I’ve said for over 40 years that a good driver can make a shitty truck look good , and a shitty driver can make a great truck look like shit .
Where at...I live in Austin and want to try it...
@@MySlugger Hidden Falls Adventure Park. They have tracks from easy to HOLY SHIZ.
Was this outback blue by any chance 😅?
There are hundreds of Outbacks and Foresters lifted 2" running BFG KO2's and doing it well. Y'all need to watch Utube more often.
The Subaru hate in this channel is pathetic. It’s clear they are butthurt because Subaru doesn’t give them free cars anymore.
Harlan Mccoy - Yup ! Some folks are all too worked up about jeep brand verses enjoy the great outdoors.
They proved that subaru outback could go up that mound o rocks and dirt shown in this video on a second video. The Subaru is way quieter than the Wrangler on the road. Now with Xmode all it's missing is the lockers, which are available. The CVT is warranted now for 100k miles. I like the Wrangler Unlimited but I hate the wind noise at any speed over 15
Solar Fry - I am going to try this later on since I don’t have x mode on my Crosstrek. www.torqmasters.com/torq_locker_tl_r1605b_subaru_r160_five_bolt
Mine is on of them. 2” lift. 235/70r15. No issues. 20k miles on the old used axles. Daily driver and off road rig.
Offroading a Subaru is fun in the same way it's fun to drive a slow car fast but not fun to drive a fast car slow. I promise you they aren't modifying them to rock crawl or do what a Jeep will do. Good off-road oriented tires make a huge difference and a lift really depends on what type of terrain you're on if it would be beneficial.
Snewflake very well said! Why does off road translate to rock crawling? Insane
Very thoughtful, I put truck ply tyres 215/60/16 with a slightly more agressive pattern for trails and gravel roads and have better puncture resistance.
Still undecided about a lift kit. I have King springs in the rear so is a little lift or "stance". It is still great on hwy use and only a little noise comes from tyres.
Am happy with its overland capability.
As a Subaru owner myself here was my thought process. I originally wanted a 4 runner but there was a significant price difference. Not a few thousand but like 10 thousand. Not to mention the gas mileage difference. I was able to get my Subaru Forester sport with a lifetime power train warranty. I wanted something that was reliable to take camping all over. I'm not doing rock crawling. I'm not going to Moab. I just want to be prepared for some sketchy dirt or gravel roads of I need to get through it. If I hit a muddy dirt road on an incline I can confidently get out with my Subaru. I'm not purposely taking it mudding or through creeks and stuff. I did lift mine 2" and put all terrain tires because I camp in the North Carolina mountains all the time. That setup maybe cost me 1200 more. There's a lot of non maintained sketchy roads that do require a little more clearance. I've been through many spots where my buddy's Tacoma would get stuck or slide in 2wd and my Subaru easily glided over with no effort. Sure xmode is just software but the newest version does help quite a bit. Motto of the story is I don't think most Subaru owners are wanting to go rock crawling. Most of us just want to travel most anywhere and want an affordable reliable vehicle to get us there. I think I made a great choice.
Hey John, have you tried taking your lifted subaru in very loose and/or wet sand at the outer banks? I'm looking for a small suv for surf trips and daily commute to work.
@@RaulEdu33 yes! I have actually done quite a bit of off roading since that last post including on the dunes in outer banks and in Ocala Florida. I own a 2019 Forester sport with the dual x mode along with a 2" lift and 245/65r17 falcon wildpeak all terrain tires. Helps quite a bit.
@@JohnHarvey Awesomeness, thank you for sharing, I think a new Suby it is 🙂🤙
This is helping my decision making🤙🏾
I’d say your argument against prepping and off-roading is entirely mitigated by the fact that you can get the forester and crosstrek in manual transmissions. If CVT is your main issue Subaru has a solution.
Not anymore..
Yeah can’t get a manual in the 2.0xt turbo we bought in 2015.
I literally just seen a 2023 6 speed manual crostrek
@@codybrackett812 Bought one last week to replace my 2015 manual Crosstrek.
2003 wrx doesn't have this issue either.
I laugh at this because the trail you were using is adopted by a local Subaru club in Colorado that has several lifted vehicles.
SR3711 I scratch my head at these guys a lot, but still enjoy their content.
Michael DeJong they are just coming up with some type of content so we can watch you know need to think out side of the box lol
They just wanted to see if anyone would notice.
They have been so consistently bias they reject all evidence pointing otherwise.
Subaru’s in other countries are sold with low range and are regularly used for more serious off roading.
@@promiscuouscrab4040 low range transmission in subaru died when they went to cvt instead of conventional auto transmission
Subaru needs to bring Baja back since people started lifting their Subaru’s
Alex Kostenyuk I have a Baja 5spd and took it off-roading stock and it did amazing. just bought a wrx to be my daily driver. So plan on beefing Baja for off-roading fun.
I lifted my Baja 4" and put 31" Boggers on it... much fun
100% agree. I daily an sti & looked for a baja for utility but ended up with an older Toyota pickup.
The Baja prototype/show car at introduction actually featured a low range transfer case. Unfortunately never made it into production.
The Baja is just an Outback with the roof cut off the trunk.
I own a Baja and an OB. Same vehicle
When you compare the Subaru at the end of your video against the Honda CR-V being no more off road Worthy. Do you ever consider the symetrical all wheel drive to be a much better system than the Honda's front wheel drive bias all wheel drive system. It seems alot of reviews don't really dive into different all wheel drive systems.
Subaru awd will smoke rav and cr-v awd.... not even the same. I agree
Right? How could car guys miss this?
Well let me start with, I own a 2000 Jeep Cherokee on 35” tiers for rock crawling. In 2015 I purchased a outback for work travel (~2000mi/mo). I am 6’6” and I chose the outback because it’s overall a great vehicle and I fit in it with room to spare. I live in Northern California and the Rubicon is my playground. As I started venturing out into the Nevada desert and the outback is the better option for comfort. I was amazed at how well this vehicle work in an overland environment... until I was met with an approach angle I could not handle without ripping off my front bumper cover. So I turned around, I had just came down a rather long steep smooth decent and let’s just say I figured out the hard way that the outback had a climbing impediment. This was inconceivable to me, such a simple task. No go, like an blown torque converted. I tried everything . I was stuck in the NV desert 100+ degrees without cell service. One good thing was my buddy and I each had small shovels and we’ll we had to literally dig our way out re-sloping the terrain to allow passage all the while keeping my bumper covers intact.
My outback is now outfitted with method wheels with cooper AT tiers, I will be lifting my Subaru (haven’t decided how much 1, 2, or 3”) not so it will become a rock crawler but so it will have better approach and departed angles in similar conditions mentioned above. I will carry at least a come along if not a small electric winch (just in case). The idea here is to advance its off road capabilities without disturbing the on road drive ability. The rim / tire combo has improved on and off road drive ability 500% with the byproduct being 50% tire noise increase and 10% fuel economy decrease. By far a huge improvement IMO. This car is all about comfort and drivability for me. My outback will never do what my Jeep can do, that why I have both! Also Subaru Outback does have a manual transmission option in some countries! This surely would solve the can’t climb issue. Thanks for all the great videos!
David
I am getting ready to add a 2” lift to my Legacy which has me super excited, she is going to be how I explore Colorado.
Crosstrek and Impreza come in manual. Or buy an older Subaru without CVT.
darin desroches love my 3rd gen manual OB
The problem is the manual version of the Crosstrek is terrible. It has even less power and without a low range even small hills will stall the engine at lower speeds. Basically it comes down to Subaru's (modern) being terrible for even forest roads because they lack a low range.
I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
@@Stuka87 I drive a lifted 88 GL wagon with 4 high and low and I love it. Its very upsetting to me that Its falling apart and I cant get parts etc. I dont want to drive one of the new peices of computerized junk. I dont want to trade true mechanical capability for a bunch of tech bells and whistles I dont even want. Its BS
@@Stuka87 Exactly! The SG MT low range Forester I owned was already not that great in that regard. The combination of a weak clutch, basically no low-end torque and way to high throttle response made you to not want to crawl anything. Good luck backing up a hill with a trailer... The 6 speed manual is even worse quite a bit. The CVT with all it's weaknesses is still better for that task in my experience.
It’s funny, I was on the fence of getting an Outback for a long time, but thanks to these guys and their videos it helped me make a decision. I figure if Tommy has to work as hard as he does to hate on this car, it must be pretty good. Overall, I love my Outback, so thanks, ha.
An outback is a great vehicle.
Blind leading the blind
You made a mistake bro because Subaru is image over substance.
@@Dahawk427 And jeep isn't? Jesus Christ
@@TripedalTroductions Solid front and rear axles with lockers is the real deal bud.
Hey, that’s actually my Crosstrek in a few of those still shots that I brought into the TFL offices for a video, but it’s not lifted. It stock heigh. And truth be told, I’m very realistic about the abilities of said car. I know its shortcomings. I don’t beat it up. Hell, 99% of the time, it’s used to drive to work, the kiddo’s daycare, and whatnot. I just put the KO2’s on there for a little bit of better off-road/snow grip.
We love your rig Joey! Perfectly done.
Your Crosstrek looks great!
Joey Henderson what tires/wheels do you have on it? They look great.
Mark Thomas k02 he said
The Yellow Cursor: I see that but what about size? Wheel brand and size? Sorry, I should have been more specific but I don’t know how to replicate that look on my Crosstrek, and I’m not a sophisticated modder.
I'm on my second Subaru Forester. First a 2002 with regular automatic and now a 2017 with CVT and 'X-mode". I like both cars. The 2002 is superior off road hands down. Not long after I bought the 2017 I took it to a steep dirt hill I had been up and down many times. I put it in x-mode and attempted to climb the hill. It made it about half way and powered out without spinning a wheel! I learned later the computer had cut power to protect the CVT. If you want to off road in a Subaru you DO NOT want the CVT.
"thousands of dollars"
quality lift kit with trailing arm spacers - $400
New set of AT tires - $600
i live on 3 miles of dirt roads that looks like a world war 1 battlefield full of craters and trenches during the rainy season, not everyone wants to "ROCK CRAWL"
Hi. Wherr do i get a lift for my impreza?
@@vikingselph5475 Ebay will have 2" lift kit with trailer arm spacers for about $400-AUS. That's a good quality kit with camber adjusted spacers you can fit with a few simple mechanics tools in a day.
Me in my supercharge BRZ like; "I guess I have to lift it now."
Still slower than a Kia stinger. Lol
But still only 2 wheel drive
Weld the diff and it'll be fine :D
@@supercooled maybe so, but I'd trust a Japanese vehicle over anything Korean, most European vehicles (including the kitty from Hades), and all American cars.
Maybe I'm biased, but my bias was hard earned driving and fixing my parents' Dodge/Plymouth cars (and others owned by other friends/relatives), the 5 VW cars my wife & I have owned, several 'Benzes (including my wife's current W210 E320), and my 1998 Toyota Camry with well over 452,000 original miles.
After doing a handful of head-gaskets on various vehicles, my first complete overhaul was a 1977 Datsun 280Z.
In my current Camry which is approaching half-a-million, I go camping, tow a trailer, and otherwise erase "gentle" & "cautious" from the dictionary.
Have fun with a Stinger, just don't cry when it becomes a money pit. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru now. I'm looking for a used Forrester with 5-on-the-floor and I'll keep my Camry too.
That's a Toyota with a Subaru heart transplant (engine).
“Why hasn’t Subaru met that need”
That’s the question I keep asking GM about making a factory Raptor competitor.
My next truck will not be a Chevy that’s for sure, all my adult I been working my up in my career to afford one. Once I pass my current truck down to my kid, I’ll be getting the Raptor.
Since the Blazer was announced I knew GM would go the "safe" route instead of the dynamic route and make another vanilla crossover with it. They didn't need another one. That was their number one opportunity to build a direct competitor to the Raptors and Wranglers that already existed. They could have brought it back as the utilitarian off-road monster with tech and esthetic upgrades. The 4Runner is still beyond capable off-road but maintains a comfortable street presence.
Sure, the market dictates what sells and risk is rarely rewarded in the auto industry. The trouble with that base argument is that interest drops with stagnation. Ford didn't need to make a full Raptoor package but they did and it works. Ram doesn't need a Power Wagon but it works. GM taking the safe route with Z71 and Traill Boss packages may have worked in the past, but this current market wants substance. Don't dress up a Silverado LTZ and call it special. No one cares about a Colorado ZR2. Anyone who's serious about what they want to do with their money and hobbies wants, needs, that factory direct offering. Unless someone has a large sponsorship or an insane amount of personal funding they're not going to spend $50k on a trim level just to double that in aftermarket accessories to make it functional.
What GM should have done? New Blazer, starting price $35-40k. That price including current tech packages and comforts, decent ground clearance for overlanding, and only available in RWD or 4WD. Engine options starting with an NA v6 but includes options for a turbo i4 or v6. Upgrades could include locking rear ( and maybe front) diff, articulation/ lift packages, accessory pre-wiring, skid plates (of course), and other useful off road items (think winch, roof mounted gear basket, brush guards, snorkel).
Sorry for the rant, but sometimes the careful route only works offroad, ironically enough, where GM dares not tread.
Crixus I like my truck in the full size variety, I’m a tall person.
Subaru doesn't have all the money that jeep has
Ummm The Colorado ZR-2. Reliable and built!
WeatherWarrior ummmm the Colorado ZR2 isn’t a Silverado.
Full size pick....
I lifted my Subaru Crosstrek 2" with Geolander G015 tires and a roof rack. Loved it. Had people always asking me about it and wanting to buy it. Not a serious killer offroader, but did modify approach and departure angles. I think it had right at 10.8" clearance.
I want to lift my Subaru, so I could go anywhere, and I could sleep inside of it.
Subaru may not be doing the lifts from the factory, but many dealerships are doing them as dealer options. Every time I take my Forester up to gillman in Houston. They've always got a couple of lifted XVs or Outbacks or Foresters on the lot. With at least one in the showroom. Sitting on a 2 inch lift and more aggressive tires and wheels.
Leave those Subaru’s alone, shit🍀
Just kidding do what makes you happy bro’s and sis🍀
TFL is OK🍀
My son lives in Portland and he has an Outback. While visiting him last summer, we went to his local Subaru dealer for service, and I noticed a couple of brand new lifted Outbacks in their showroom! So, dealers are doing this all over the country.
Yeah the small dealer in Tyler Texas does the same. A salesman said they can barely keep them 24 hours before they get sold. They really look awesome!
I love how your world view here seems to assume that the very next stop after well graded dirt roads and light snow is extreme rock crawling. I agree that a lot of drivers are probably over modifying their Subarus. The approach and departure angles are too shallow for any modest lift to be of much (any) help in rock crawling situations. While that may be what shows up in Subaru TH-cam videos (guys doing heavy off roading in their heavily modified Outbacks and Forresters), day to day most Subaru drivers who are going off road just need a little extra clearance to make it through the small short rough sections that pop up here and there while exploring off road. Adding 2" oversized tires on 1" smaller wheels makes a big difference in capability off road here, and while that change does not require a lift on these cars, adding an extra 1" - 2" of body clearance will help at least a little in modest off road situations. Can you make a stock Outback to the same stuff as a lightly modified one? Probably, but at least I'd feel too close to the limits of my vehicle then. Another point I totally disagree with is the cost factor. When I bought my 2016 Outback last year (leaving behind two decades in Toyota Land Cruisers and Tacoma's) I did so because my comparable vehicle of choice, a similarly aged 4runner, was always going to be at least $8 - $10k more than the Subaru. I can change out the tires, wheels, add a 1.5" lift and maybe a little underbody armor up front for when I forget my limits, for less than half that cost difference. I think you guys are making sound arguments in general but it ignores the middle ground where I suspect most Subaru owners are when it comes to off road use.
*In Texas It's Social State Law to Lift your Vehicle* 😂
I just bought the 2023 crosstrek Sport in Canada and after watching this video i can't wait to install the 2 inch lift kit i bought last week and i also bought on sale for $978.00 4 x 235/65R17 tires for my oem rims power coated gloss black where i work instead of the 225/60R17. This will add 4 inches at the rockers. Why?. It will ride smoother with bigger tires and easier to get in and out of and ..my opinion makes it look better. Also adding the Forester black hood stripe and black 3.5 inch side stripes at the bottom of the doors. Carbon fibre door handle guards. Rain guards for the windows and a tinted covers for the rear lights. Interier changes are the ice blue dome and map lights. Easy to change. The rest is just my own personal touches. I'm doing this just because i can and yes. To be unique just like me. My Subaru Crosstrek. Love it...
I guess they saw this and made the WILDERNESS
Lifted Subaru is a better choice than a lifted VW Bug
notinside1 *new school* VW bug. The oldies are a sweet choice for a lift
At least the Bugs flat 4 wont eat its head gasket
I wish VW had shoe horned the alltrack into the beetle. Then it would've been a "real" Dune. 😭
The bug couldn’t even make it through 3 inches of snow what a joke honestly
@@kootsmike5833 except their frames are too weak for offroad use
I wanted to touch on a couple of points that you guys have made, the first one is the cost of the additions. Subaru lift kits in general are actually quite affordable and when we install one here at the shop with tires, wheels and an alignment our customers are paying on average $3,000. Of course the tire and wheel option plus other products we have will move that price up and down. The other is the lifts do help the cars off road from the added ground clearance. Everything we sell will not hinder ground clearance so the customer reaps all of the benefits of being able to tackle the trails with more confidence over a stock height Subaru. 3rd, the road manners. I have lifted all different kinds of trucks over the years and can agree with enhancing off road capabilities will take away from road handling. A RalliTEK lifted car with the top hat spacers and springs actually handles quite well on the pavement and in some cases actually handles better than a stock car. We are doing some cool things with Subarus over here in Oregon, it would be great to have you guys out to tag along with us!
I got my 2016 3.6r lifted at RalliTek with their 2 inch body spacers and springs. I can say my OB handles better on the road now because of the stiffer springs. Less body roll in the corners.
I learned how to drive in a Justy, 5 speed push button 4x4 on the stick. I drove that down ATV trails, logging roads and horse pastures in the Adirondacks. I would buy another one today and drive it any where while feeling 100% confident!
I had that awesome little car! What a beast in the snow - so wish they still sold it.
Greeting from Australia I’ve got a Subaru Legacy wagon with a 2inch lift kit. The vehicle isn’t used for extreme off road like rock climbing etc it’s used to drive on fire trails to access hunting spots etc.
My 07 forester is just amazing how it handles dirt roads. I've done 5 000 km at about 90 km/h and I had no trouble at all, and a lot of fun, burning less gas than a wrangler !
I use to drive a 2015 Forester XT and when I lifted it the driving dynamics were drastically changed (for the worse). The CVT died in that vehicle, so I traded it in for a Honda Passport (because the Pilot and Ridgeline did so well in your videos and conquered gold mine hill quite easily). The Passport has the same 4-low thats in a Jeep renegade/compass trailhawk. Anywho, when I lifted it, there was no noticeable change in driving dynamics. For those that are looking to live the Subaru life with a bit more capability and comfort, the Honda Passport is an awesome solution. The reason for the trade in was due in part to the CVT failure, because it would just happen again, and then I’d be stuck with a $8-9k repair. But it was mostly because i saw how much more capable an older Subaru was with the 4EAT transmission and I knew that the CVT could never compare. Now in case anyone might wonder why I didn’t get a 4Runner, I use to drive an 2008 FJ cruiser and that thing made a terrible daily driver and consumed way too much fuel. I wanted no part of that.
I have an R51 Pathfinder, it's body on frame but independent suspension all around. It's comfortable as hell and really a good/unique compromise to get the best of both worlds. There are lift options from 1.5 up to 7 inches suspension + body. With a modest 2" suspension lift and 32's it drives better than it did from the factory. On road its biggest drawback is fuel economy though (I average 12.4l.100km (19 mpg I believe), and offroad the only real drawback is the articulation, but the suspension travel is better than crossovers. It also stopped being made in 2012 so there is that too :)
My 2105 outback had a 2” lift and another 1” from overload springs then able to add larger tires on smaller rims. Loved it and hit Moab twice a year. I had no Offroad experience before the Subaru. No locking diff, no problem. It was significantly more comfortable than any Jeep or truck.
That said, I replaced it with a Power Wagon.
I am going with Roman on this one. It’s pretty amazing where you can actually go with a Subaru right out of the box. Not everything needs massive skid plates, supper low gearing and lockers everywhere plus a $2500 set of knobby off road wheels and tires. As a kid, I remember seeing plane Jane economy cars up mountain trails where a street car had no right to be. One day I was with my dad. Looking for firewood. But really, he was just out having fun. He decided to follow this steep seriously rutty trail up the side of the mountain. Probably a quarter to half a mile long. He was in his 69 ford F100 pickup. He had special ordered it with the options he wanted. They included a FE 360 engine, a heavy duty 4 speed transmission with granny gear, uprated springs, 15 inch wheels, 6 ply tires with town and country grip tread on the back and a heavy duty limited slip rear axle with 4:10 gears in it. This was a tough solid truck. The first one he bought he could not break. Anyway, getting up that hill was not easy. Lots of spitting rocks out the back, tire smoke, bouncing around, multiple restarts, noise and dust. Kind of like the hill you broke the Ram Rebel transfer case on. After we got to the top of that road, we crest the hill and what do we find? A mint green with white roof 1962 AMC Rambler American 2 door coupe with stock tires and hubcaps, a six cylinder, automatic sitting there covered in dust. Without any scrapes, dents or scratches. How it got up that same road we had just come up was truly surprising and amazing. Corvair pickups were darn good off road too.
I lifted an Impreza 2.5rs and sti swapped it. It has 10 inches of clearance and rock rails. It rips and I love it. I’ve climbed tons of mountains around Montana and I love it so much
I’ve owned wrangler, 4Runner, GC, Tacoma, Tundra, CJ and now looking at Subie. Smaller, cheaper, comfortable and can handle where I go. All in the past were overbuilt, solid axel uncomfortable, lower mpg and bigger than needed.
"Why hasn't Subaru made a car to fill that need", bcause their sales are still growing, and they don't really need to.
I get a lot of their surveys, and one of their surveys focused on off-road capabilities a lot, including low-range.
I've got a 2019 forester that I just slapped some A/T tires on, and I do want to get a 1.5 inch lift on it. The tires I got are the new wildpeak A/T trails which are meant for crossovers and only weigh 5 pounds more per tire than stock, and are more than capable of handling the kind of off road I'll be taking it on. Granted, I've been wanting a 4runner for years and have done a ton of research on them, but the cheapest 2wd new 4runner, is still 6k more than I paid for my forester, and the 4runner gets worse fuel economy than my old car which was from '92, and I live in a city. The forester is more than capable of going on rugged forest roads, and I'd like the lift just to help clear rocks that could be sticking up on the center of the trail. I ain't gonna be climbing mountains or going rock crawling.
If I decide to go on way more rugged roads than the forester can handle, I'll get a cheap Cherokee XJ, but as it is, I needed a daily driver that was good on fuel economy, wasn't a new jeep, and could handle the trails near me.
@@JDS-Dalton A lot of reliability issues with jeeps
@@app1mxh exactly why I would only go for a '90s model Cherokee.
@@JDS-Dalton You mean like Matt from Winder Towing?!
@@DaciaProject lol, didn't even think about that Haha. Nah just had a few friends that had XJs and they loved them. Built like tanks.
My 2018 Outback is comfortable, spacious, fuel efficient and a great 4 season (although winter often endures through April here in Wisconsin) vehicle. This is my 3rd Outback and will be the last one; in fact, I am done with Subaru. Next in line is a Tacoma Off-Road when the lease matures. The CVT performs atrociously in cold weather; it strains and whines until it reaches optimal operating temp. I cannot imagine taxing the transmission with more weight and tire diameter. Tommy is right on!
I love my Tacoma. 19 sr5, lifted and better tires. It's a beast.
Great advice from both of you...but here we are in 2022 and a used 2020 Crosstrek is going for $25k and the same model year 4Runner is running $37k. Yes, I wanted a 4Runner but my wallet dictates something less. Appreciate the video.
I know I'm late to the game on this old vid but wanted to toss my 2 cents in. I took my 2019 Forester Sport up nearly all of Colorado's class 3-5 4x4 "jeep" rated roads. Including the Lead King Basin Road and up to 9800' on Lake Como Road(no, I was not going to attempt Jaws). I had installed the scrape plate, 2" ReadyLift kit(pre and post fix), and K02's. Yes, the Subaru's have their limits and cannot do what hyper dedicated off-road vehicles can do. But they can go up many roads with solid knowledge of how to drive them. And the x-mode does work(sometimes). You just need to give it time to figure itself out.
Now I have a Forester Wilderness and plan on lifting it either with a full suspension swap or spacers again. And I'll keep crawling up with all the Jeeps, 4Runners, and Tacos. :)
Happy Trails y'all.
With the more modern Subarus the key is to keep it simple. Tires and lights and it will get you to any campsite off the beaten path. It won't climb rocks, it won't do what a jeep can, but it also won't cost what a jeep can
John Taylor exactly correct!
YES! Adding lights to mine as we speak...gotta find a reason to swap tires thought as mine are only 2yrs old....all seasons....07 Forester Already got new headlights and Baja wheels....made the car look updated and modern...only has 118k on clock...
And it also won't break as often as a Jeep and will ride better the 99% of the time you're not on trails. They act like it's a point of pride to break inferior Jeep OE parts and upgrade them with better aftermarkets. I've gotten scratches and tore a bumper, but never broken anything mechanical offroading my Subarus.
Great Video!! Subaru sells every vehicle that they make and are at capacity so they really don't care at this point about lifting or putting a transfer case in it. It's the same reason why Subaru isn't putting a turbo in the Crosstrek; they sell every one they make with the weak engine that gets mediocre fuel economy. I have a 19 Crosstrek and it's a great car but it's pretty boring and I wish it had a darn Turbo. Also if you cut power to the CVT and it can't make it up the hill they won't break and there won't be a warranty claim. Subaru is making a safe a sane car that's profitable. Their marketing shows young people with an active lifestyle taking their Subaru to the camping spot with mountain bikes, camping equipment and kayaks. So use the vehicle to get you to the active lifestyle spot. They also market it as a very safe vehicle that we should pass down to our kids and then buy another new one for yourself. You really don't see them climbing difficult trails or rock climbing. I'm not disappointed with buying my Crosstrek; its just a really reliable, conservative, safe and sane car and not very exciting which is really why I bought it in the first place.
Install a rear locker for $400. The CVT isn't cutting power. The TCS is.
Get a winch and some recovery mats/boards too.
So then is the advice to get a manual transmission Subaru (e.g. Crosstrek in a manual)?
Kicked around this idea. But ive heard from many that the cvt will make it a little bit farther up a difficult trail.
I considered this when I got my crosstrek. I think there ability of the CVT equipped AWD is better. It will actually shift power front to rear and vice versa.
In their video with the Outback going up gold mine hill, when you set it up right, the vehicle just takes a minute to figure out where the torque should go.
My two cents, but I ran my 2019 Crosstrek in 6MT up hills with softball sized rocks and sand while crossing a few small creeks with relative ease. It has enough power for what's within it's limits. Ultimately, I believe it comes down to the skill and confidence that the driver has in their vehicle and skill set. But that's just my opinion, friend.
I love my 5MT xtrek
I put a two inch lift and an LED bar on my 2006 Legacy. I could have just bought an Outback, but I like the way mine looks. It’s fun to drive and great in the mud.
Road comfort be damned. I want a racecar that can drive in the snow. Why isn't there an Sti Crosstrek?
Fax
I've been asking that for years. I need one T_T
Would you pay 40k for a Crosstrek? We have a 2021 Crosstrek Sport, the one with the 2.5L engine. 1.5 inch lift, offroad tires and rims. 37k. An STI Crosstrek would be around 40-45k. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
The existing sti is a 40 grand Impreza, and they sell that.
You probably have heard this before, but can you guy's get your hand's on a MT and give those hill's another shot ?
My 2003 forester with a 2 inch lift and larger tires as done everything my 4wd GMC truck with 285s could do. Mud, river crossing and deep snow, the forester has been a lot better on trails bc it is small I can easily turn around on tight trails..... with out hitting trees like with my bigger truck!
Subie/Soft Road community is where it’s at. We have owned 4 Subaru’s and have taken them everywhere. Great on and off road.
As owner of Subaru’s since 1993 , I completely agree with you guys. It is just the way to understand that Subaru are amazing off road vehicles but you need to accept their limitations....it is not a jeep!!!!!
I have an 2016 Outback that I use as a daily driver. I go camping monthly via a teardrop trailer (timberleaf) , as well as a annual two week road trip to national parks. I sometimes need off-road capabilities here and there, mostly just some mud, snow, or a modest trail.
Apart from putting a small roof rack for gear, as well as tow hooks and new rims for aesthetics, I haven’t done much else besides some solid Falken Wildpeak AT Trail tires which are the only thing really helping me much off road. I chose the Falken tires over BF Goodrich ko2s because of the weight difference and my desire for less noise during highway driving, since they were built for crossovers and vehicles like subarus. I think this choice was a good compromise.
I might add a modest 1in lift, a spare tire mount (miss it from my RAV4), and a small front grille guard for aesthetic reasons - I don’t see any real reason to do anything else, for the same reasons you discussed in this video. I bought a Subaru cause it had great fuel economy that also had awd and a little clearance. I agree it wouldn’t make the best over landing vehicle.
I love my Crosstreks! Got one of the first ones in 2013 and have since upgraded to a 2019. Its perfect for highway driving and it will also get me to most all of the trailheads. I thinks its cool to add visual mods, but Im not doing anything to jeopardize the comfort or good gas mileage.
Turn off the traction control give it the pedal, I don't know what they're talking about but my Subaru will go up that hill 😂
I got my subaru for a daily driver that I can take down some rough roads and mild trails. I like the versatility and fuel mileage. Another huge bonus is how easy it is to work on. Subarus are the easiest cars I’ve ever worked on.
Just ordered a Subaru.Can you provide an update? I plan to use my forester in a similar way. Also intrigued by the fact it’s easy to work on. I’d love to relearn how to do the easy maintenance.
Great conversation. Appreciate your approach to this discussion. As a new Outback owner I quickly was taken by the lifted and big tire modified Subarus on social media. I personally like the look and know that it’s not going to make my wagon a rock crawler. I camp and backpack and just needed a car that would handle the backcountry roads to a trailhead or campsite.
They have a wilderness outback. Nice real nice. But they do need to rewind a bit & think about a better, stronger transmission auto & manual. Can you hear me Subaru !!!!!!!
I was really torn between a dedicated 4x4 and a subaru for my last vehicle purchase. But when I was really honest with myself, I drive hours on the highway to get somewhere interesting to do 30 minutes to an hour off pavement. And when I'm off road, I'm mostly interested in scenic drives and accessing remote trailheads, not crawling over bashy rock ledges slower than I could walk them. Subarus are popular because they straddle the divide for people who have to use their cars on pavement too and only want to own one vehicle. The new wilderness editions in particular do a really good job striking a balance between competing priorities. It is kind of a bummer though once you own a subaru it starts to become glaringly apparent how certain segments of the offroad community really seem to enjoy gatekeeping and judging. I guarantee I've taken my subaru into a much larger array of remote environments than the average jeep owner
For me I love my Subaru Forester. This is the 2nd one I have owned. I love it for road trips, good space, mpg, awd, and the ability to go off roads. For me off roads and nice trails I find in nature. Maybe some hills, camping, etc. I never cared for rock crawling and love my Subaru for everyday drive.
They need to build a Subi with about 10.5in of ground clearance, locking diffs, all terrain tires, and shorter overhangs. I don't think those modifications would take much from the factory, nor would they significantly compromise the road worthiness of the vehicle. the hardest part would be engineering the diffs and beefing up the CV joints to deal with the increased angle of the slightly taller suspension and larger tires. A two speed transfer case would not work well with the symmetrical all wheel drive they use without some major re-engineering of the transmission but maybe a wider range within the CVT would do the same trick but again that is significant reworking of the design.
Subaru was always known for rally racing. There cars only come in Awd, and has been a partner to national parks for the past 30 years. Adventures is what Subaru was built for.
When I lived in Michigan I had a stock 2016 outback and often went on dirt trails and old logging roads, especially in the UP, with no problems. I've never done anything too extreme or went rock crawling, but for what I used it for I never had a problem. Even pulled off into a huge snow drift on the highway in Canada, snow was up to the door on the passenger side, and got out with x-mode.
I am sure a different more capable 4x4 would have been better and faster, but for what it is the outback is a great car. I would not lift it though just because for what I've done the clearance now enough.
Now I live in Japan and got a 2009 here.
Edit to say this: the suby community is amazing. So many cool people who like hiking, nature, and helping each other. I can't speak for other communities, but from what I've read in the comments it seems the negative rumors have some weight.
I have a lifted crosstrek.
X-mode is honestly not your friend when it comes to slipping with the CVT.. The best thing to do is traction control off and X-mode off. Then it will stay on the power and punch through.. Almost acting more like a locker..
I know x-mode is supposed to do that.. But it doesn’t.. It kills the power trying to divert it elsewhere, often leaving it nowhere.. In sand and snow x-mode is your friend.. On slick rock w-dirt and mud it might hinder you..
The key is to be persistent and try different combinations until you figure it out.. Go easy on that CVT transmission though.. 😅 It’s not a jeep..
That being said, I had a jeep on a 3” lift… And I think the Subaru is almost as capable on a shorter wheel base with 2” lift.. Not to mention a million times more comfortable..
Just have realistic expectations.. These little lifts are not harsh enough angles to harm the vehicle..
I'd be a hypocrite if I criticized someone for lifting a Subaru.
My first car was a 1969 VW Bug. It was a rolling shell with a clear title when my dad bought it and gifted it to me for my fourteenth birthday.
Growing up in Southern California, the so-called "Baja Bugs" were a pretty common sight when I was a teenager. Lifted, with aftermarket fiberglass body parts, and exposed engines...... I liked to hunt and fish, so I looked to "Baja" to make my "Bug" a better fit for my lifestyle. I kept the stock body parts, but I did lift the car. I ran BFG AT's on it -235/75 on the rear, 215/75's on the front. I managed to get a Quaife limited-slip somewhere, and that went in the transaxle, along with lower ring and pinion gears. I fabbed a skid plate to protect the engine and transaxle. Engine was a 2.3 liter..... Added on a roof-rack....
It was better off-road than a lot of people might suppose, in spite of not having a low range gear set or drive to the front wheels.
I had to use momentum, certainly. But the independent suspension let me do it in a way that I couldn't have in a CJ Jeep without bearing the crap out of myself or the vehicle. I couldn't go down every trail I'd been on as a passenger and sometimes driver in the four-wheel drives my dad and uncles had. But I could go places in that off-road modded VW that I didn't have a prayer of getting to in the '66 Mustang GT I bought when I was 18. Out on the high desert, it was actually BETTER than a Jeep, in my mind. I could get from one quail or chukar hunting spot to the next a whole lot faster in my Bug, without beating the crap out of my kidneys. A friend of mine, who had experienced what the Bug could do off-road, ended up doing something similar to the Porsche 914 he "inherited" from his parents when he was old enough to get his license. That thing was quite the car and he kept it as his "quail hunting and fly fishing car" until he passed away seven or eight years ago. He always said that if he needed more off-road capability than he had in order to get somewhere, he'd be happier to get as far as he could in the Porsche then walk the rest of the way, rather than drive a Jeep all the way.
So, I reckon if someone wants to lift their Subaru, who would I be to say "no" to that?
I feel this on a personal level because I drive that same style lifted crosstrek, but let me explain my logic. @CarolinaCrosstrek
The 2008 Wrangler JKU (4" Fox Performance lift, 35" KO2's) I had before this was an offroad machine. I've broken axle shafts, coil springs, my transmission, it was an absolute money pit. Not to mention I got 10-13mpg, and with all the driving I had for school I was spending over $100/week on gas. I was basically almost always broke. Cue the accident. I got death wobble on an exit ramp and ended up sliding off the road and into a tree. I spent hundreds of dollars with new tie rods, steering stabilizers, adjustable track bars, but nothing fixed the death wobble problem. The vehicle was unsafe for daily driving use at highway speeds. I got the Subaru after that and started saving for mods. 9 months later, i got everything. And being I don't want to go on crazy hard jagged mountainside trails anymore with a daily driver, I lifted it so I could do the small trails more easily. 2" Readylift kit and General Grabber AT/X's. The CVT with the updated X-mode in my 2018 hasn't let me down on the trails so far, it's pretty capable. And the best part is, even with all the mods, i'm getting 23-25mpg, and spending $160/month on gas with a maintenance bill of ~$200 for the life of the car (oil changes, air filters) so far, it's saving me a ton of money over my old jeep.
EDIT: it kinda looks like a rally car/overlander hybrid. I love it! Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions about the build.
Kevin Long if you are using the crosstrek that way I recommend changing cvt fluid and differential oil out every 30k miles, easy enough to do yourself. Will save you in the future.
Dude, Roman is still upset Subaru won’t lend TFL vehicles. TFL had an outback for a while (they bought it themselves) and the only thing they did was add snow tires I think. I don’t see what’s wrong with a vehicle that is more reliable, has five star crash tests, better fuel economy AND a bit more off road worthy. Not everyone hits the Rubicon trail on their way to work.
Zachary Sielck but it’s a fiat.
Also, way more expensive than a Crosstrek.
Zachary Sielck I really hope FCA gets there. I’m happy about foreign people coming here to work. That’s what makes america great. My experience with FCA hasn’t been great. The amount of silly things I have had to fix on a 2013 grand caravan is absurd.
It takes time to prove reliability, but FCA hasn’t proven to me like a company like Subaru.
@@alfu6180 on this same idea, their outback is from like 2010-2014, Subaru's done a ton of new software on the new generations on the global platform. There's now 3 different types of X-mode rather than just the 1 on their older model.
Tommy, no matter how wrong they are, Dad's are always right.
I owned a wrangler before. I loved it, offroad; however, in the city with the low mileage x gallon, the road noise, and not comfortable for long trips I decided to look for something else. Keep in mind that going off road doesn't mean crawling vertical rocks. Basically the offroading I was doing with my jeep, I am doing in with my unlifted 2019 Forester Touring. The difference? Much better mileage, super comfortable and roomy. I have been to deep snow, sand, and offroad. Subaru may not be the first in crazy offroading, but is the best in everything I do
I have an XJ. I've only used 4Lo twice and both times was on a steep hill with a trailer. In 4Hi it just wouldn't go once I was about 3/4 of the way up. Put it in 4Lo and it crawled right up with no problem. 4Lo is rarely needed but at times it will be the difference between continuing on and turning around.
Eh? Tommy thinks 8.7” of ground clearance is “tremendous” and “plenty” for deep snow? That’s absurd. There are TONS of places I can’t take my Outback because it’s not high enough. The CVT has NEVER been a limiting factor for me - it’s ALWAYS the ground clearance that limits the car first. Another 2-4 inches would make worlds of difference in capability.
This is simply a difference of the definition of off road. Can a lifted Subaru rock crawl like a built out jeep, no, will it give you better ground clearance off road and on some rougher terrain, yes.
Manual lifted crosstrek enough said. Really tho feel like best would be lifted sti since it has limited slip diffs and locking center diff lol
DustinB855 my 01’ Forester 5 speed manual allegedly came with a limited slip diff 😂. its the S trim package so it came fully loaded even with heated seats. i just bought it but i wanna buy the 2” lift kit that they sell for the SF chassis Foresters online. just gotta figure out what size tires i want.
@@JedadiahSands hell even a naturally aspirated EJ with outback lifts can do most of the stuff they were complaining about in the video lol
You can pick up a torq-locker for the rear diff of a subaru for around $500.
Now you can go any where, in any Subaru.
35 years of offroad and dirt road driving in the outback is my starting point. I'll say this. I've seen 4 door sedans with highway tires in places half of the people with mall crawlers couldn't get to on their best day. If you want to take your subie somewhere silly and play in the mud, that's up to you. Drive it like you're afraid to break it, walk obstacles before you drive them and drop about 20psi out of your tires when you get to the mud/ soft sand, and you will be OK. When, not if, but when, you do get stuck, be just as gentle getting it out as you were getting it stuck. A shovel will get you out of more trouble than 35 inch mud tires will. Dropping tire pressures will save you breaking out the winch 90% of the time. The driver matters more than the fruit added on aftermarket.
Don't believe me? Search YT for "Haylz driving ford falcon 2wd passed bogged 4wds at inskip". That's a non lifted 2WD equivalent of a crown vic on highway tires driving on a infamously boggy beach. Low tire pressure and momentum is how.
The issue with the trans is a massive issue. My 2001 outback has been offroad but didnt involve huge rocks. It has involved snow, heavy rain with muddy water covered roads in storms. That is what I want from my suby. It fulfills my needs. I had a jeep for serious offroading.
I had a 98 Forester with 2.5" lift and some general grabber at2 and it was pretty capable until the center diff went out lol😆😆
You guys should do a test. Get a lifted Subaru with AT tires and test its off-road worthiness. Compare it to the Cherokees as well as other AWD SUVs (CRV, RAV4, etc...). I’d love to see the scientific results.
Jorge Valente Cherokee trailhawk would destroy the Subaru. It has a transfer case with low range and rear locker.
With less ground clearance. I've went with the trail halk club and they are not that great .
offroading subarus of colorado I have a trail hawk now but I had a forester before the TH. both stock, I wouldn’t even think about taking the forester where I’ve taken the Trailhawk. And the forester was before they started putting cvt’s on them. It’s a great car for snowy roads and all.
my 07 forester with only a 2" lift goes everywhere! Iv'e been beating the absolute crap out of it for the last 5 years/100k and it takes everything!
Hell yeah! I have a 07 4EAT, skid plates on the front, trans, rear end. Coming back down the mountain, I always pass a couple confused Jeep drivers. 😎
I have a 1.5 Impreza from 2008. It is manual 4x4 AND has low range. I want to lift it for snow as it is very low. But no, i am not going offroad any more than a dirt(snow) road to the country house.
It’s not the CVT which cuts power in the Subaru it’s the traction control, you simply need to switch this off. My 2010 outback 3.6R does not have a CVT, it’s a 5 speed auto and when there’s a wheel lift, the power cuts off. I just switch off the TC and it keeps going- simple. So please learn this and stop saying the CVT cuts power.
Hi guys! Let me say first... I love your Channel! You guys hit the topics just right! Always enjoyable!!!
I have to respond to this one... Tommy ... you are too funny! My opinion it’s not about the ultimate Moab monster it’s simply enjoying Overlanding and like Roman said modifying your rig while knowing your limitations. I have a 2017 Crosstrek and have been planning my mods slowly. Reality is it’s my daily commute and when like when the my tires need replacement I will buy a set of Black Rhino rims with KO2s. Small steps. Point being is some folks don’t want to spend over $50 k on a rig. It’s more the challenge of upgrading what you have and can afford and what off-roading I want to do. Roman said it ... this is AMeriCa! Like I figured out how to use my Garage door opener button on the rearview mirror to turn on the off-road lights with out going through the firewall. Will I do Moab ... no.
My point is: I can enjoy getting out there on a budget, and there are a lot of channels out there for Subarus along with basic Overlanding channels like Ronny Dahl (Australia) who explain the basic techniques on what you need to do Overlanding for any vehicle with safety in mind. (Tommy ... there is safety involved here. Knowing your vehicle limitations and basic outdoor survival)
You know it would be cool to see you invite Donald from Softroadingthewest and watch what his Forrester can do. Just a thought.
Ps.. there is a new Torq locker product for a Subaru. Another cool innovation for us Subaru folks who want to off-road the next level.
This. I’m really hoping to buy a 2020 Outback or Forester. I don’t need anything crazy or overly capable and expensive (4Runner and Wrangler). Just some light off-road fun on a budget.
MacMichael Henson-Rogers I hear you! The cool part is to put together street worthy and off-road capable. It can be done. Sure it’s not a super capable 4Runner or Jeep... but the cool part is support out there for Subarus. I’m not gonna get a VW T because I’ve already fooled around with air bladders, and they are expensive to replace. I had a Range Rover 2006 nightmare! Check out this outback: th-cam.com/video/sMq5Q-JYbOg/w-d-xo.html
Exactly! You nailed it.
Karl Sturzebecher that’s pretty sweet! I’m debating whether to go Limited with more options or Onyx XT for the turbo. I’ve heard Subaru turbos don’t last, and that’s a concern since I supposed to keep my next purchase long term.
MacMichael Henson-Rogers - I agree. Wife bought the 2019 6 cylinder last year. I heard the 2020 would carry the turbo. Maybe you can find a 6 cylinder or look at the Forrester.
I have only added the lift, tires and wheels to mine (so far), but I have had zero issues with my Crosstrek going over rough terrain. I built mine as an overlander, not a crawler, which I'm pretty sure most of the modified Subies you see out there were designed to be. I do plan on dropping a lot more mods into mine, but I bought it and built it with the mentality that I wanted to go places that normal cruisers couldn't. I've taken it over rough desert terrain and some rocky. I also don't agree about the sacrifice of comfort for the lift, at least in the Crosstrek's case. Yes I did definitely lose some of my EPA but the comfort is still there. I do plan on starting my own TH-cam channel for the car once I get further along in the build. I hope this has given you some insight to at least this lifted Subaru owner's mentality. Also didn't you guys just do a segment on a lifted Subie?
Hi Luke, could you share the specs on your lift and tire/wheele choices? And how do they feel on tarmac or any tire rubbing on tight turns? Thanks 🙂
I'd be interested in seeing you guys get your hands on a manual Crosstrek. I've got a 2018 with the CVT. I put a mild all terrain tire on it, the Continental Terrain Contact, and with that it's nearly perfect for what I want (dirt roads that need decent ground clearance, and handling whatever weather nature throws at me). The CVT hasn't let me down anywhere yet, but I do lament not getting the manual some days. Other than that, if it had a bit more power and a shorter chin it'd be in the sweet spot for the "many terrain" vehicle I'm looking for.
Disagree with low range gearbox being first. Spun one tire when locked in often. Even got stuck diagonal teeter totter on flat ground. I am choosing lockable differential . Granny gear is a close second. Entry and exit angles third. Cooling upgrade fourth.
TFL is kind of missing a pretty important factor. Snow. Subarus are excellent in the snow. The only thing limiting subarus in the snow is clearance. Which makes a lift an obvious choice. Especially in Canada where I live