Sadly the proplem is battle shock is the weak rule not Shadow. Firstly if the tyranid player could dictate exactly when it happened not when it suits the opponent in the phase , so that needs rewording. Secondly why do you get to simply choose in the next player turn to no longer be battle shocked. Instead you should be forced to take another test to rally from being battle shocked in the previous player turn and you remain broken until you do pass with all the negative effects that carries. Your thoughts?
I totally agree and get the thought process there. My only reason for not automatically doing it then is because then my opponent gets the opportunity to play around it a little bit. Either way both options can be good!
Battle shock as a general rule needs to affect more army rules, I think so far it only affects Guard, Tau who already struggle with poor leadership and use army rules to be on par with everyone else. What if on battleshocked units Marines can't gain rerolls on oath, Eldar can't spend fate dice, Orks can't benefit Waagh, Sisters faith dice, No Chaos dark pacts, No Drukhari pain tokens, No teleport Assault, No blessing of Khorne. All of a sudden Battle shock is much more feared and makes sense that armies fall into dissaray by losing their cohesion (not bravery), treats armies equally.
It depends on the army you're up against too, playing against guard I've had success using it early to blunt their initial strike, especially if I've pushed up aggressively Completely neutering your opponent's ability to give orders and then watching the fallout from that as they're dropping a tonne of shots without take aim is savage
A good play I've found playing Vanguard Onslaught is turn 2/3, yeeting Deathy into combat, getting in the middle of a few units, making sure you're still tagged in combat, and then on my opponent's following command phase, blasting shadow in the warp. If the surrounding units have taken any damage, they'll have to pass 2 battleshock tests at -1. Then you'll have a big scary lad in the middle of their deployment zone, hopefully in combat with 1 or 2 battleshocked units that are scared to retreat.
I’ve only just started nids. Previously death guard. In the 2 games I’ve played shadow in the warp did nothing in the first game. The second I managed to battle shock 6 units, took some to OC zero and swung the score from a loss to a draw. Easy to see how swingy the ability can be.
I just want to add in zoanthrope(specifically neurothrope ability) as a additional support unit. I did a list revolving around causing battle-shocks and these guys make it into MWs. And the kicker it stax. >3x units of 3zoans, cast shadow in warp, and 3x screamerkiller bioscream. Thats 4x BS checks and Each fail becomes 3D3 mws ontop of any actual damage.
Unfortunately this won’t stack since the effect from the zoanthropes is an aura and a unit can only be affected one by the same named aura. Thus even with 3 units within 6” you will only do 1d3 mortal wounds per failed bs
I thought about leaning into this one day in conjunction with The Smothering Shadow stratagem from the Synaptic Nexus detachment which causes MW's on 6D6 3+ rolls if they fail battleshock within 12" of a synapse unit. Guessing it would be a case of good on paper but difficult to pull off in reality though...
@@terminatoruk4921 It comes down to redundancy and how much your willing to commit to a target. using smothering shadow is powerful and in theory can wipe out a small/weakened unit but the catch is when it triggers it may be wasted. IE using 3x screamers to force atleast 1 fail you probaly would of killed the unit on accident at that point but if you can get a fail on the first attempt it can make quick work to refocus the next target
We don't. Anyway, IF and only IF they fail their LD check and you can set up your neurolictor at 12", you can shoot them down with an exocrine/maleceptor. Or you could also roll insanelly good with zoanthropes or rupture cannons.
This was a great video idea. It is very importemt to master this ability. Question: So, if its my opponents tun, i call shadow in the warp, with a Neuro Tyrant on the field. His 10 man unit is within 6 of my Deathleaper and there are only 4 models of his units left. He would then have to take 3 Battleshock tests for this one unit, 2 of which that have a -2 on their leader ship. Did i get that right?
I don’t know about you guys, but I have found it’s better to spend the points on a Broodlord, deathleaper or something else rather than than the neurotyrant. 105 pts for one model that sits in your deployment zone just for this and doesn’t represent a significant threat is not worth it. I agree with a lot of the “when’s” to use it. But more often than not you end up with a 50/50 chance of them failing the test. Maximize its effect, but spend your points on a better buff like dev wounds to 10 genestealers.
Those other units are great too, I use them as well but having the Tyrant hold home if needed and the -1 to battle shock is great. Plus he’s decent on overwatch and shooting
One question : deathleaper reduce the CD of the unit. Also one Aura in nexus bonus. Does it works for SITW ? EX: imagine a command of 7. Malus 1 with the deathleaper, minus one with the neurotyrant ... the guy will have to rool a 9.
I love Shadow in the Warp but battleshock is far too swingy. Its also weak against a lot of armies with good leadership. I love my 'Nids but im feeling more and more cheated when I see other army rules.
It's an interesting ruling. The Leadership characteristic cannot be modified to a 9, but that doesn't include the modification to the test from the Neurotyrant. The way I'd rule it is that a LD 8 model would absolutely still take the test at 9.
Thanks 👍 Does a battle shock unit have to repeat another test (e.g. 12p from a neurolyctor or shoot from a screamer-killer ...) or is it automatically battle shock? With the risk of succeeding 🙁
This is an issue with many rules from the Tyranid codex. GW should really clean it up. For the case of the screamer, technically they take the test even if they are battleshocked but nothing extra happens, pass or fail. However there are a few strats that say the enemy must take a battleshock, if they fail an effect happens. It that scenario, even if they are already battleshocked and they pass the BS test. That effect doesn't come into play.
Can I get advice on my new army list 1k build? Character Broodlord Neurotyrant Infantry Genestealers 10x Genstealers 5x Zoanthropes Zoanthropes Swarm Ripper swarms Ripper swarms Ripper swarms Monster Haruspex Tyrgon
@open_minded7983 Invasion Fleet. Some good stats and detachment ability is good. List looks good man. 👍 what can be more important than unit choices sometimes is how you use them. Read the strats and think about which units you would use them on and when/how. I also build lists front to back... ie what am I going to use to harass my opponent at the front, what am I going to use to hold central objectives, what am I going to use to protect my back line. Ripper Swarms will do most of your secondary objective work, they are an awesome little unit.
@markgriffiths1033 thanks :) I wanted to try something different. I use to do just a lot of monsters or termagaunts. Due to 9th edition being really bad for tyranids, but now tyranids are pretty solid for 10th edition to mix up the choices
Hello guys i just started collecting tyranids as my first army and im interested abt the mechanics. Question: if unit is under half strenght (2/5 models) they will do battle shock test right lets say in my turn i killed another model to that unit so that bring down to (1/5 models) do they need battle shock test again in their turn?
@@marksoriano375yes, anytime a unit is under half strength they will have to take battleshock tests. Doesnt matter how many they have passed/failed previously.
I'd argue with 100+ games of 10th Ed bugs (owning and using every model in the codex) that I've somewhat mastered SitW usage across all factions. What I've learned is it's just an unreliable shitfest. It just exists and can apply SOME sweat and SOME shocks against SOME armies. Tyranids can be played a myriad of ways but Invasion Fleet and stat checkers are the only real stable things going for us. The faction is a total borefest. My poor babies.....my only faction and the only faction in the 40k sphere that matters to me =(.
I guess that depends on the playgroup. Il play with noobs.even weaker rules works well against a unprepared opponent. Like a mostly melee army. I agree with invasion fleet being the most stabile way to play. Its the most easy and General and favours shooting which cuts tyranids in the toes. Btw at tournaments vanguard gets some good placements!
Sadly the proplem is battle shock is the weak rule not Shadow. Firstly if the tyranid player could dictate exactly when it happened not when it suits the opponent in the phase , so that needs rewording. Secondly why do you get to simply choose in the next player turn to no longer be battle shocked. Instead you should be forced to take another test to rally from being battle shocked in the previous player turn and you remain broken until you do pass with all the negative effects that carries. Your thoughts?
You absolutely should prefer to Shadow during the opponent’s turn to get TWO turns of that unit being battle-shocked
I totally agree and get the thought process there. My only reason for not automatically doing it then is because then my opponent gets the opportunity to play around it a little bit. Either way both options can be good!
Battle shock as a general rule needs to affect more army rules, I think so far it only affects Guard, Tau who already struggle with poor leadership and use army rules to be on par with everyone else.
What if on battleshocked units Marines can't gain rerolls on oath, Eldar can't spend fate dice, Orks can't benefit Waagh, Sisters faith dice, No Chaos dark pacts, No Drukhari pain tokens, No teleport Assault, No blessing of Khorne.
All of a sudden Battle shock is much more feared and makes sense that armies fall into dissaray by losing their cohesion (not bravery), treats armies equally.
It depends on the army you're up against too, playing against guard I've had success using it early to blunt their initial strike, especially if I've pushed up aggressively
Completely neutering your opponent's ability to give orders and then watching the fallout from that as they're dropping a tonne of shots without take aim is savage
That's a great point, I didn't think too much about other faction abilities. Guard is a good example of easy to BS and take a big hit from it.
A good play I've found playing Vanguard Onslaught is turn 2/3, yeeting Deathy into combat, getting in the middle of a few units, making sure you're still tagged in combat, and then on my opponent's following command phase, blasting shadow in the warp. If the surrounding units have taken any damage, they'll have to pass 2 battleshock tests at -1. Then you'll have a big scary lad in the middle of their deployment zone, hopefully in combat with 1 or 2 battleshocked units that are scared to retreat.
Great video. Another army I want to collect….
Thanks Craig! 😂 Love the channel, I shall be listening in on my way home from work 😊
I’ve only just started nids. Previously death guard. In the 2 games I’ve played shadow in the warp did nothing in the first game. The second I managed to battle shock 6 units, took some to OC zero and swung the score from a loss to a draw.
Easy to see how swingy the ability can be.
I just want to add in zoanthrope(specifically neurothrope ability) as a additional support unit. I did a list revolving around causing battle-shocks and these guys make it into MWs. And the kicker it stax. >3x units of 3zoans, cast shadow in warp, and 3x screamerkiller bioscream. Thats 4x BS checks and Each fail becomes 3D3 mws ontop of any actual damage.
PS mawlocks, screamers, neurolictor, Deathleaper, parasite of mortrex, and haruspex are all Battle shock causing units
Unfortunately this won’t stack since the effect from the zoanthropes is an aura and a unit can only be affected one by the same named aura. Thus even with 3 units within 6” you will only do 1d3 mortal wounds per failed bs
I'll have to double check my big book on that then but even so. Just means wide coverage and spread damage
I thought about leaning into this one day in conjunction with The Smothering Shadow stratagem from the Synaptic Nexus detachment which causes MW's on 6D6 3+ rolls if they fail battleshock within 12" of a synapse unit. Guessing it would be a case of good on paper but difficult to pull off in reality though...
@@terminatoruk4921 It comes down to redundancy and how much your willing to commit to a target. using smothering shadow is powerful and in theory can wipe out a small/weakened unit but the catch is when it triggers it may be wasted. IE using 3x screamers to force atleast 1 fail you probaly would of killed the unit on accident at that point but if you can get a fail on the first attempt it can make quick work to refocus the next target
Great video, im not sure if you mentioned Insane Bravery? I believe it cant be used to auto pass Shadow in the Warp?
You are correct!
You mention how the Tyranids lack high strength units. How do you effective deal with high toughness vehicles and monster?
We don't. Anyway, IF and only IF they fail their LD check and you can set up your neurolictor at 12", you can shoot them down with an exocrine/maleceptor.
Or you could also roll insanelly good with zoanthropes or rupture cannons.
There is just not enough things that work with battle shock for them to be awesome…
you forgot to say that you cant use it always. There must be aunit with shadow in then warp ability in the game to use it. Or else you loose it.
Exactly. Nearly every list will have one BUT it is possible, especially now that more people are running Broodlords
That's a great point!
This was a great video idea. It is very importemt to master this ability.
Question: So, if its my opponents tun, i call shadow in the warp, with a Neuro Tyrant on the field. His 10 man unit is within 6 of my Deathleaper and there are only 4 models of his units left. He would then have to take 3 Battleshock tests for this one unit, 2 of which that have a -2 on their leader ship. Did i get that right?
No deathleaper just triggers a BS test on unit under full strength instead of just being under half. You wouldn't get a test for both
@@EliteDarkAssassin Really? But isn´t being under half strength also being below starting strength? The hell? 😅
I don’t know about you guys, but I have found it’s better to spend the points on a Broodlord, deathleaper or something else rather than than the neurotyrant. 105 pts for one model that sits in your deployment zone just for this and doesn’t represent a significant threat is not worth it.
I agree with a lot of the “when’s” to use it. But more often than not you end up with a 50/50 chance of them failing the test. Maximize its effect, but spend your points on a better buff like dev wounds to 10 genestealers.
Those other units are great too, I use them as well but having the Tyrant hold home if needed and the -1 to battle shock is great. Plus he’s decent on overwatch and shooting
One question : deathleaper reduce the CD of the unit. Also one Aura in nexus bonus. Does it works for SITW ? EX: imagine a command of 7. Malus 1 with the deathleaper, minus one with the neurotyrant ... the guy will have to rool a 9.
Hi Craig.
does the -1 on the neurotyran's battle shock test add up ?
so -2 to tests ?
Thank you
You can stack two of the same ability. But if there are two separate abilities they do. So the affects of Synapse and Neurotyrant do stack
I love Shadow in the Warp but battleshock is far too swingy. Its also weak against a lot of armies with good leadership. I love my 'Nids but im feeling more and more cheated when I see other army rules.
Can't have a BS test on 9+ or 4+, so the 72% odds is just not an option sadly.
It's an interesting ruling. The Leadership characteristic cannot be modified to a 9, but that doesn't include the modification to the test from the Neurotyrant. The way I'd rule it is that a LD 8 model would absolutely still take the test at 9.
Thanks 👍
Does a battle shock unit have to repeat another test (e.g. 12p from a neurolyctor or shoot from a screamer-killer ...) or is it automatically battle shock?
With the risk of succeeding 🙁
This is an issue with many rules from the Tyranid codex. GW should really clean it up. For the case of the screamer, technically they take the test even if they are battleshocked but nothing extra happens, pass or fail. However there are a few strats that say the enemy must take a battleshock, if they fail an effect happens. It that scenario, even if they are already battleshocked and they pass the BS test. That effect doesn't come into play.
Thank you.
Yes, it's not logical.
Can I get advice on my new army list 1k build?
Character
Broodlord
Neurotyrant
Infantry
Genestealers 10x
Genstealers 5x
Zoanthropes
Zoanthropes
Swarm
Ripper swarms
Ripper swarms
Ripper swarms
Monster
Haruspex
Tyrgon
What detachment you thinking?
@TheBluBrawler I'm unsure yet. Any recommendations?
@open_minded7983 Invasion Fleet. Some good stats and detachment ability is good. List looks good man. 👍 what can be more important than unit choices sometimes is how you use them. Read the strats and think about which units you would use them on and when/how. I also build lists front to back... ie what am I going to use to harass my opponent at the front, what am I going to use to hold central objectives, what am I going to use to protect my back line. Ripper Swarms will do most of your secondary objective work, they are an awesome little unit.
@markgriffiths1033 thanks :) I wanted to try something different. I use to do just a lot of monsters or termagaunts. Due to 9th edition being really bad for tyranids, but now tyranids are pretty solid for 10th edition to mix up the choices
Hello guys i just started collecting tyranids as my first army and im interested abt the mechanics.
Question: if unit is under half strenght (2/5 models) they will do battle shock test right lets say in my turn i killed another model to that unit so that bring down to (1/5 models) do they need battle shock test again in their turn?
Yes, every command phase, the player who's command phase it is, is required to roll a battleshock test for any unit below half strength.
@@Thorrgrimn I see. Last question 2/5 models passed BS test this turn then the following turn they remain 2/5 models they still need to do BS test.
@@marksoriano375yes, anytime a unit is under half strength they will have to take battleshock tests. Doesnt matter how many they have passed/failed previously.
@@TheJasonDragonsbane thank you.
I won a game by using perils on the last turn 😂
I'd argue with 100+ games of 10th Ed bugs (owning and using every model in the codex) that I've somewhat mastered SitW usage across all factions. What I've learned is it's just an unreliable shitfest. It just exists and can apply SOME sweat and SOME shocks against SOME armies.
Tyranids can be played a myriad of ways but Invasion Fleet and stat checkers are the only real stable things going for us. The faction is a total borefest. My poor babies.....my only faction and the only faction in the 40k sphere that matters to me =(.
I guess that depends on the playgroup. Il play with noobs.even weaker rules works well against a unprepared opponent. Like a mostly melee army. I agree with invasion fleet being the most stabile way to play. Its the most easy and General and favours shooting which cuts tyranids in the toes. Btw at tournaments vanguard gets some good placements!