Comparing HUGE Lighting Modifiers: Booklight vs Softbox vs 7ft Umbrella
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- As you grow in your filmmaking career whether you call yourself a videographer or cinematographer, you will run into modifying light and the larger the source the better… for the most part. In this video I’m comparing the traditional Westcott scrim jim booklight setup to ginormous softboxes like the Aputure Lightdome 150 and the new to me 7ft Impact Parabolic umbrella for the softest light possible with the least amount of setup!
If you have any questions, feel free to comment them down below!
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I also use a 7ft umbrella for photography and found it to be great for filmmaking as well. I would remove the reflector from the source so the light spreads inside a little more.
Thanks for the tip!
I tried both and I find that the reflector helps with side spill from the bulb itself.
You also lose some output without the reflector
Welcome to the wonderful world of umbrellas. Super underrated. Start experimenting with the different kinds and sizes. You can get a lot of good stuff from the shoot through white ones, the silver reflector ones, and test them with and without diffusion in front. Plus, you can combine with barndoors on the white shoot through umbrellas to get more control. Lots of good comments with good suggestions on the video. Like you said way cheaper, way faster to set up. I feel like TH-camrs got sucked into seeing other TH-camrs using only the Softbox. And only using the circular ones. There are so many other modifiers. Even barndoors or a reflector with diffusion right on front gives a really similar look. Not as large of a source but for a lot of interview setups you don't need a huge 7 foot. A smaller 2 foot umbrella is all you might need.
Idk id go as lowkey as a 2ft unless i was traveling and the client was being a cheapo and I was flying to location.
Even then I’d probably opt for the 4ft as it can fit in my checked bag.
Thanks for sharing about this lighting set up! Ever since I've discovered the 7 ft parabolic umbrella setup, it's been the only one I've used for talking head and gigs. It lights faces well and it also lights the space well too. Plus I think the umbrella is less "source-y" thank than softbox.
Ofcourse! It’s like a hidden “little” gem
I have been feeling like the contrast from my light domes becoming noticeable. I might pick up that umbrella setup! Especially for big sources, i would want to ideally light a bigger subject anyway.
Could be MANY different factors that are leading to this but for sure having a larger source will help spread the light across the face more!
I've always been curious about using an umbrella instead of soft boxes. Now I have to go order one.
Get em’ while they’re still hot!
Almost no information about using umbrellas for video on TH-cam, so thank you for this video ;-)
I bought two huge umbrellas (one white and one silver) and the cost and setup is great.
I briefly tried to compare huge umbrella with softbox+grid, and with adding a little more contrast in post, and selecting background in DaVinci and making it darker a bit, i can get the look that a bit closer to controlled softbox+grid look
Thanks for the support!
Yeah it’s possible to get the same “look” and most the time I’m darkening the background anyways.
I love comparisons like this. Keep it up!
Thanks brother!
The umbrella works even better if you remove the normal reflector from the LED XD the spread gets wider.
Umbrellas with silver reflection inside give up to 1 av more than the white ones ... when mixing with daylight this can make a real difference.
also get an 5ft too. They are so dirt cheap I would get a white and a silver in 5 and 7 ft. Diffusion from the 5ft works on the 7ft as well.
I do this all the time. I use them here for gigs inside the city where using the metro is often 45min faster than using a car ... So I fell in love with the small packing umbrellas.
Also there are Elinchrom travel stands which are so much better for fast in city work than the manfrottos everyone uses.
I’ve tried both way and preferred the reflector for most cases. I got back and forth though.
Isn’t the silver not as soft? It has a punchier look, right?
I recently purchased a 5ft. I think I’m addicted to umbrellas now 😳
@@AnthonyRodriguezzif you have diffuser on umbrella no difference in softness. Silver just gives more output. I have 2 umbrellas from godox. 165cm silver abd white. For portrait photo. It's easy to carry and setup for outdoor octa 70cm.
@Garbid I mean… that would be great but in theory that should be the case. Double diffusing a light has a much softer effect than reflecting it off a silver source and diffusing it.
I’ve never tried it, but in theory simply having a diffuser doesn’t make them equally soft.
I have to try it now 😂
@@AnthonyRodriguezz white diffuser is responsible for softness)) so doesn't matter if it's silver or white. Try it if you want. Pretty sure some bigger channels did it already.
@Garbid bouncing light off a white source is also diffusing the light.
You can bounce light off a white wall and it will be a diffused light source. Having a white inner umbrella would mean it’s double diffused as opposed to a silver one, which is reflecting.
I’m pretty sure silver does not diffuse light nearly as much as a flat white bounce. That’s where you’re losing that extra stop of light.
Great comparison, a couple other options you didn't mention:
Umbrella softbox - only available upto 150cm AFAIK but quicker and easier to setup than a standard softbox. Less depth than your Aputure softbox.
Manfrotto / Lastolite Hilite - Relatively quick to setup, but you can't really use it angled or boomed.
You can also get umbrellas with a hole underneath you insert the stand / light through, which gives better balance and a setup that takes less space. But I have not seen these in large sizes.
A good tip I picked up from one of Caleb Pike's videos regarding mounting large softboxes is to clamp the speedring with a cardellini / mattelini clamp rather than using the light mount. This reduces stress on the bowens mount of the light and helps even out the weight distribution a bit.
The 7 foot umbrella does look like a good choice, though here in the UK I can only find a Westcott version, which is quite expensive.
Thanks for watching!
Tons of options out there!
Damn you've really sold me on the umbrella - although I agree the book light has a touch nicer quality - setup up time is a no brainer though. I wonder if additional diffusion with the softbox whether you could get closer results.
Ed! It’s been a while!
Yeah, the setup time is the deciding factor for me.
You probably could get it to be softer with the softbox but then at that point you’re losing even more light and might be introducing more hassle for little rewards… idk. I’m still figuring it out 😂
@@AnthonyRodriguezz yeah, I just picked up a Godox M600D for that reason.
Love the look of a good book light but yeah they're a huge faff and you need loads of additional modifiers and neg to cut the light and control spill - not workable for smaller crews etc.
Also - just sent you an email about something completely different!
Thanks for this great video. I'm thinkin' I needs me a 7' Impact umbrella now.
Get it! 🔥
Nice video!
I’ve been thinking of getting an umbrella bounce ando you sold me on it
I love your video format 🙌🏽
Thanks man! Glad the video was helpful! 🙏🏼
To control spill from the umbrella without using other flags and blockers, try feathering your light away from the area you don't want illuminated and partially collapsing the umbrella
Appreciate the feedback!
I usually fall into the feathering category
That 7ft umbrella ☂️ is clutch I never got one because I thought it was complicated.
So clutch bro…
Great comparison, thank you!! 👏🏻 I‘m with you a 100%.
Thanks man!
Ohhh love this comparison my man. Great video!
😏 thanks brother
Helpfull video, how you get crystal clear audio with those high fan light noise nearby, wish you could provide us some information on DJI mic 2 in near future. New subs ,💯
Thanks!
Funny enough, I actually didnt enjoy my audio that much for this video 😅
I just EQd it in davinci
With the book light I would start with a single bar clamped in to stand and build frame from there so you don’t have to deal with a 6x6 monster frame when locking in the frame. Also I have a small 2 step folding stair to get extra reach in situations like this
Honestly I would never do it alone again 😅
@@AnthonyRodriguezz yeah doing it alone is frustrating 100%
Love how you explained through the setups and gave the pros and cons for each!
A long video but definitely worth the watch ✌🏼
Thanks man!
This video is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks! 🔥🔥
Great vid comparison! I guess the closer the umbrella is to you, the less power you need to expose your face and “less spill” you get on the background. Flagging off the light would be another solution, but probably make it even more cumbersome. Wondering how much softer you could make the light if you double diffuse it or use a thick diffusion on a 6x6 and remove the thin umbrella diffusion. Have you tried this?
Spot on.
Honestly, this is as soft as I’d want the light to be. I wouldn’t really see much benefit in making it any softer as it’s being double diffused already.
Who knows though! I may try it one day and like it. If you do end up trying it, just go the double sock route as opposed to setting up a whole 6x6
@@AnthonyRodriguezz Cheers mate! I did try the Profoto XL Umbrella with a double sock diffusion, but I didn’t notice much difference other than the reduced output. The structure if the umbrella was struggling as well due to the weight and force of the diffusions elastic straps surrounding it. I’m now trying the RFI 4x6 RFI with double diffusion. Thanks for your input👍
this video is 🔥🔥. Thanks for the tip. Got an umbrella in the cart already😅😂
Yeah… you got an umbrella? 🤔😒😂
@@AnthonyRodriguezz because of this video. I put the umbrella in the cart already😂
Great video like always!!
Thanks bro!
Great video, picked up one and I’m excited to use it! Have you experimented with any ways to add a grid? Or would flags be the route to go?
Haven’t found a grid. I’m thinking one option could be to buy one from a really large softbox and just clamp it on.
I’m trying to avoid flagging if possible but yeah, that seems to be the only other route besides just getting it as close as possible.
@@AnthonyRodriguezz I was wondering about that option too. I wonder if it would work to add Velcro on the inside for a grid and put their defusion over it but idk if that causes problems or not🤷🏻♂️
@@ChristianSmith I’m sure that would work. I just don’t think it’d last and I don’t think a grid exists that’s large enough.
If you figure it out, let me know 💪🏼
@@AnthonyRodriguezz I did see an 84 inch octagon grid online but maybe Impact will make something.
Great comparison. Wanted to check out the comparison for long time. I wish you could get hold of Lightbridge CRLS and add those to this comparison as that's also an alternative with lesser hassles hopefully but an expensive one though :P . for indoors I think umbrella is too good. outdoors in windy scenario that lightweight umbrella might become its CON . But for indoors Umbrella looks the best. Cheers for a great comparison :)
Thanks for watching! We have so many options nowadays 🤯
Indoors in such a small space it is difficult to see what the light vs. spill fill is doing as you mention @ 2:15.
I learned portrait lighting assisting a Master photographer / teacher named Monte Zucker who rose to fame in the late 1960s by using a combination of daylight for his studio portraits and off-camera flash for re-enacting the wedding ceremony and the reception, which was new thing then and necessary because like with digital in was impossible to get detail in a black suit and white wedding dress at the same time without altering the scene range with a combination of even centered FILL to lift everything in the foreground the same amount up to the point the shadow detail was recorded, then add the off-axis KEY at a angle which created very flattering 3D modeling on faces - 45° to the side of the nose and about 45° downward so the shadow of the nose fell over half of it modeling its 3D perfectly in the 2D rendering.
Back in 1972 when I started working for him flash gear was very primitive. He used flashes sold by Graflex company which were powered by 410V DC battery packs the size of motorcycle batteries with the on camera flash mounted 16” over the lens on a bracket off camera flash he mounted on converted medical IV pole which could be rolled around with one hand and was triggered optically by a simple photo-cell. He was the prototypical ‘Strobist’ who created color photos with stunning tonal ranges and 3D realism because he understood how to use fill, something he told me he learned from a studio photographer named Joe Zeltsman.
Zeltman mounted a bank of studio flashes from the ceiling at the rear of his studio portrait bay aimed backwards at the white back wall and ceiling of the which flooded the space with diffuse fill light similar in character to sky light. Like skylight because the source (wall) was much further from the subjects than a typical fill scenario the inverse-square fall off was very gradual and in a front-to-back direction relative the camera.
To understand how distance affects how “hard” or “soft” lighting in a face appears take a subject outdoor at night where there is nothing to create bounce the light and starting from the baseline of using direct flash with no modifier and starting with the light 32 feet from the subject and there head so nose creates a “butterfly” shadow beneath it. Then move the light closer to 22, 16, 11, 8 and 5.6 feet which per the inverse-square law will change the exposure one f/stop each time. Have the subject hold white and black towels as exposure reference and adjust exposure as needed with aperture so exposure in all the photos keeps the white towel 1/3 below clipping. What you will see in the photos is identical highlights but the shadows on the face front to back and the background get progressively darker. The light will go from looking “soft” to “hard” because that perception is create not only by how sharp or fuzzy the shadow borders are by the tone of the shadows relative to how we normally see them.
In a second experiment shoot with the same 32, 22, 16, 11, 8, 5.6 distances for the centered flash but instead of exposing to put the white towel 1/3 stop under clipping adjust aperture so the black towel is seen to have detail in the playback. Towels rather than cards are ideal targets for exposure testing because they can be draped in 3D shapes like clothing and the loops in the fabric will create lots of specular reflections from the flash just like hair does. Once you find the ideal exposure for the shadows with light at 32ft. add an identical light at the same power at a 45° angle to the face and move it in until the highlights on the white towel are 1/3 below clipping. For most digital sensors the lighting ratio needed for detail over the entire range from black to white clothing is around 2:1 incident or 3:1 reflected which means the off axis KEY flash will wind up around 22 feet when centered FILL is at 32ft.
As with the first test move the FILL flash closer incrementally to 22 - 16 - 11- 8 and 5.6 feet again adjusting it based on detail in the black towel, then move the off axis KEY until the white towel is 1/3 below clipping. You’ll find the KEY will need move to about 16, 11, 8, 5.6 and 4ft to maintain the same full range black to white rendering of the towels and subject standing with them.
What you will observe is the same change in the character of the direct flash and the flash-subject distance changes and from the understanding gained in those two exercises you will then have a better understanding of what any modifiers you add to the character of the light when there is no spill fill.
I’ve done a good bit do testing like that over the years and what I realized is that when there isn’t any spill fill biasing the results the most significant difference in the character of the lighting as modifiers get larger is in the specular highlight clues to shape, if fill is used as suggested, centered and adjusted based on recording detail in black clothing / towel target. Large and smaller modifiers used at distances where the ‘apparent’ size of the modifiers from the POV of the subject is the same will created similar specular highlights.
I do mostly PJ style shooting with speedlights and since 2000 when I switched 100% to digital have mounted my on camera fill on a Stroboframe camera flip which keeps it in the same place centered over lens and heads of subject in both landscape and portrait mode. I did a lot of experimenting with speedlight modifiers where there is a trade-off between size and portability and created a DIY design made from letter size (8.5” x 11”) ‘Fun foam’ sheets which have a flap on top that can be opened to bounce more light off ceiling when needed. photo.nova.org/DIY01/.
In rooms with 8-10 foot ceilings the diffuser creates a direct “Key” lighting vector with downward “butterfly” modeling with “Fill” created by the light which spills up past the top of the diffuser. It creates much more flattering single flash lighting than flash in the hot shoe with a piece of Tupperware does. The modeling of the face is the same with the flash when shooting outdoors with sun used as back rim light with the skylight acting as the fill instead of spill off the ceiling.
Most of the time I shoot with an off camera Key with the one on the bracket changing roles and becoming Fill. Shooting with Canon ETTL flash with Fill as Group A and Key as Group B find a 1:2 A:B ratio gives me a normal “seen by eye” contrast and range of shadow - highlight detail.
Woooaaah! That’s quite the comment 😂
Thanks for putting so much effort into providing your insight. I really appreciate it and it helps for sure
@@AnthonyRodriguezz Thanks… Back in the 2004 - 2010 timeframe when was doing a lot of experimenting with Canon ETTL speedlights and studio lighting I created a lot of tutorials like the ones l linked which explain the theory and show the results I was getting. I’ve always had the mindset of being a photo journalist who records what is there rather than than trying to make artistic statements with the technical goal being to overcome short dynamic range of the sensor in ways that don’t look artificial.
What I realized working for Monte Zucker and using his dual flash approach were Fill is always on the camera is that it gives you near total control over the lighting in nearly any situation. But getting people to even try using a flash bracket and centered fill is a ‘hard sell’ for some reason.
Oooooo👀 might need to get myself a 7foot umbrella soon. But real question do you think I would get a softer look for my YT setup on a 41 inch umbrella or my janky set up 36inch soft box that I literally have 2 layers of diffusion, the grid, then a dollar tree white table cloth to diffuse it more😂
Absolutely. Much softer 😂
For the unbrella set up, did you attach the reflector to the light?
I did.
It works both ways
Can you get a grid that works with an umbrella?
Large LED panels is by far the easier way to go for your average interview . Godox or Intellytech Mega series with grid . One stand , one light.
I wouldn’t say easier but they are easy!
I used to use them for most all of my interviews but the umbrella overall looks miles better imo. It’s also… one light and one stand 😉
@@AnthonyRodriguezz true , but the sheer size ! , light spill , ok for a studio I guess.
What type of stand are you using in this video?
An impact lowboy combo stand
@@AnthonyRodriguezz Thank you! If you're ever on a gig in NY/NJ I'd love to be an additional on the crew if the opportunity ever presents itself :) Cheers.
are you still selling the 150 softbox
Yeah! Message me on insta!
Great video, hows the fan noise on the B500?
Thanks!
It’s well maintained! I haven’t had any issues
Someone needs to make a grid option for the umbrella and it would be a no brainer. I have started using umbrella for almost all our light now. They are just so much faster, lighter, smaller footprint, and cheaper.
1000% that would sell like hotcakes
You can attach any grid to umbrella setup with clamps. Looks awful buy works well
Never used an umbrella - this looks like a great option for me going forward so thanks! Does the light unit itself cast a shadow, or is it fine? Seems like one potential downside. Plus the fact the fan will be right near the talents face and might affect audio
It’s great!
Doesn’t cast a shadow unless there is a huge lightsource behind your main light source but that with any modifier. It’s not singled out to the umbrella.
Also, I haven’t had any issues with the fan but this is probably due to my lights not being really loud and having decent boom mic positioning
@@AnthonyRodriguezz thanks for that. I was worried that the light unit being right in the middle of the diffusion would cause a dark patch
Ooooo you mean the light inside!
It completely disappears 👌🏼
I shoot closeups standing right infront and between 165 cm umbrella and model. No shadows from me)) light on such a big source if its literally touchs you wraps around you. Only in her eyes in reflection of light source you can see the photographer)
Good video. Isnt Umbrella doing the book light itself? Why are you separating the "Book light" vs "Umbrella"?
It does what a booklight does but wouldn’t be considered a traditional booklight.
It’s an entirely different lighting modifier. That’s why they are in separate categories
@@AnthonyRodriguezz interesting, I thought book light is simply when you bounce the light and then run through a diffusion.
@@dathofilms kinda sorta, yes.
But an umbrella is literally… an umbrella 😂
@@AnthonyRodriguezz Sure I get that, but they are literally the same thing, just one is round and the other square, therefore will achieve exact same softness of the light.
@@dathofilmsthey aren’t the same exact same thing though and if you watch the video, you can see how they don’t achieve the exact same result
Also how are you recording audio at the end with the pocket3??
Are you using a separate mic?? It sounds great
I’m pretty sure I was using the DJI mic!
That's what she said 😅
There had to be one… 😂
FORGET the umbrella. WHAT YOU WANT is the lightbridge set up. That’s a similar set up, but it’s gonna be so much easier and so much more versatile.
While I do see cine reflectors as beneficial they definitely do not have the spread and effect as the softbox and aren’t easier imo.
If I’m understanding correctly, that all involves multiple stands and some more setup
@@AnthonyRodriguezz I’m not sure you’re referring to the same product. He’s stating that he wants to use the stills umbrella because he feels it’s beautiful with the simplest set up.
I’m saying that use the snap bridge from lightbridge instead - as it’s clearly a cross over between book light and an umbrella. Now it’s not cheap but if you have the budget and prefer the umbrella way I believe this seems to be a much better solution.
th-cam.com/video/Xv9sZ7pDyF4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=j1fn4gYzFtTPLPhm
@@AnthonyRodriguezz not seeing a previous answer from me here, so I’m writing again (just in case). I’m talking about the snap bridge that they have. It’s like a cross between umbrella and book light. That will definitely have a nice spread and then the possibility of adding a reflector in the center to focus the bounce as well. It’s not cheap but it looks very versatile with different fabrics and reflector softness. It’s also not very deep (as a softbox would be) so it’ll snug up in tight spaces. BUT yes it does need the light to be bouncing on it, but it could easily be underneath.
th-cam.com/video/EHcjsrgQPnk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hmyOYAnSR33CK0DO
Ahh yes this is slightly different than what I thought you were referring to.
I think it will give you a very similar result with slightly more setup. Definitely something that looks somewhat nimble. I’ve never used it but there are a couple more steps that just popping up an umbrella
You want little work and big quality? Bounce the light off the wall. No wall? Ok you gotta thing about one of these horrid setups.
Yes, I want to find the easiest setup with the best results possible.
Bouncing off a wall is an option. Not nearly the best option, but still an option nonetheless
@@AnthonyRodriguezz You would want your source as far back from the subject as possible to stop 'hot hands' which is when the subject waves thier hands close to the source. the farthest back you can get in a room is the wall. And then you want your source a big as possible. not 7 foot but maybe 12 foot of wall consider two lights. All without occupying any set space with the box and its stand or needing a box or stand at all. Magic. Wanna do some flagging?.. set up an open 4by floppy. Wall not white? you need to pin on some white stuff. No wall? get a softbox.
@sammorganmoore I understand your logic and disagree with some of it, not all.
What you just laid out is an entire setup that is way more complicated and imo will not give much separation at all.
What you’re describing to me seems like an old fashioned dentist office commercial video… I personally do not want my light source as far away from my subject and my ratios aren’t to the point where I will have “hot hands” I’ve never experienced that
@@AnthonyRodriguezz Never argue with your dentist :)
@sammorganmoore hahahaha! Touché 😏