Astra 902: Because More Rounds is Better
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ต.ค. 2017
- The Spanish Astra firm introduced its C96 Mauser lookalike, the Model 900, in 1927 to take advantage of the strong Chinese demand for that type of handgun. When Bestigui Hermanos introduced a select-fire machine pistol to the Chinese market, Astra quickly followed suit with their Model 910 and 902 in 1928. The 901 was really just a select-fire adaptation of the Model 900, while the 902 made an effort to compensate for the quite fast rate of fire (900 rounds/minute) by using a fixed 20-round magazine instead of the 901’s 10-round magazine.
A total of 7075 Model 902 Astra pistols were made, with the design followed in 1932 by the Model 903 and its detachable box magazines. In order to accommodate the extra-long magazine, the shoulder stocks of the 902s (all Astra 900-series guns were shipped with should stock holsters) had a deep opening cut out, which was then covered by a detachable leather boot to protect the magazine of the gun and close off dirt from the opening in the stock.
One very rare variant of the 902 is the semiautomatic-only type, of which only 50-75 were made (about half the number of 20-round Mauser C96 pistols). We have one of those to look at today, along with its intact original shipping box.
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1000m sights.....in 7.63 Mauser
These guys weren't "The glass is half-full" so much as "The glass is perfect and I love it and will never need any more liquid ever again forever and ever and ever and ever...."
The Spanish had the most optimistic shooters in the world
In fairness, I've never seen a tangent sight on _anything_ that wasn't hilariously optimistic at the top end.
I guess it's probably like speedometers in cars. Even the rinkidinkiest cars have meters that reach at least 250 kmph. The manufacturers just don't want it to max out... Ever...
Or it could just be that they had a surplus of sights in the 1000 m range.
Funnily enough, the first car I ever had was an '84 Oldsmobile that had a speedo that only went to 85 mph. I discovered one fine afternoon on a rural Interstate that the car could go _much_ faster than that; but it was the only car I can recall owning that was faster than its speedometer's limit. (The one I have now claims to be able to go 180 mph. I haven't tested that, since I live nowhere near the Bugatti test track, but I have my doubts. :)
@@jmalmsten
They simply use rifle sights
I love how the selector switch, instead of being labeled "S" and "A", are labeled "1" and "20". You fire one shot or all of them :P
let's pretend that H&K and SIG didn't do that
I mean, 20 rounds at 900 rounds per minute…the mag’s empty in 1.3 seconds.
They really are in fantastic condition - very handsome.
Ian, Ian, you're overcomplicating the title... there's no need for so many excess wordage... just write what's in your heart...
Because More Dakka.
Never thought I'd see the day when a pre-ban transferable machine gun cost less than it's semi auto counterpart.
How much are they both worth?
tacticool commando in the description it tells you the final price at the auction. Semi auto went for $37,375 and the select fire went for $16,100. Crazy surprising to see that. Sorry I was a tad late in answering your query. Lol
@@KevinRay_man I have an opportunity to buy a semi automatic version for under $500 from a friend in mint condition with the shoulder holster and leather straps missing from most of them from what I see.. holy shit, I guess I'm going to call him right now and go pick it up!
tacticool commando good lord yezzir my friend, I’d definitely jump on that ASAP! I wish I could invest but being between jobs/trying to find a lifelong career is proving tougher than I’d previously expected. It seems it real*(ly)
@@KevinRay_man we've arranged a day for me to pick it up! And yes, it's all about who you know sadly..
I have been waiting for gun Jesus to review this beautiful edition of the c96
The Astra 902 is one of the most gorgeous handguns ever made
Wot are ya bouyin? Ah, the choice of an avid gun collector! It's a nice gun, stranger.
The fact that this only has 2 likes is criminal, or I'm getting old lol
I scrolled down to find a red 9 reference...
I'll buy it a high price!
NOT ENOUGH CASH....stranger
Love how it says "rifle pistol" on the box label.
Yes! It's actually such a good description. ^_^;
Though the English seems a little weird, now that I think about it?
Always nice to hear more about these. I've always wondered how much use these and other spanish arms saw in the Spanish Civil War. Great video as always. Thank you
I'm a big fan of your videos. I'm a longtime gun collector and a history buff. The two interests dovetail nicely and ,as a result, I'l always looking for material that covers older firearms.Your videos give obscure and hard to find firearms a three dimensional quality. I'm also a lifelong fan of the Broomhandle pistol. I'm 50 years old now (2018) and I've been a fan of the Mauser and Spanish versions since the Seventies! I enjoy the fact that you have made several videos about my favorite historical design. I actually own a post-WW 1 'Bolo' which is my all-time favorite. Keep up the good work.
Beautiful workmanship especially the semi version, and to have the original box with it...well makes me wish I had a lot of spare money to bid on these! Great channel Ian.
Very very cool!! Thanks Ian! Love your channel brother..
As a firearms enthusiast,and history buff..your vids are beyond awesome..
Very cool to still have the box. I imagine it is quite fragile by now.
These are awesome no doubt, but the 903 is where it is at for me. I have wanted a 903 for a long time. I think it is a wonderful little home defense carbine. like all C96 and copies, kind of a goofy handgun, but a top notch carbine.
I'm a sucker for a nice bit of engine turning. Take my money.
Wow, the full auto is expected to go for about half of the semi auto. Incredible!
I'd love to see a later video on their later model with the rate of fire reduction feature and how it worked.
It sounds like it would have been an even more effective gun than the much later Uzi machine pistols.
Never noticed in the last couple james d julia videos that the back line up is of recent videos or coming up ones. Thats a good idea, i like it!
Yeah, upping dat backdrop game!
Beautiful finish
These are so freakin cool
Just a little comment on the pronunciation, the U in Beistegui and Guernica is mute! But you´re getting there! Great work!
Ian, on the pistol-caliber firearms with leaf rear sights, does the drop-off actually match the farthest ranges? I would think the pistol-calibers would face a more severe drop than can be accounted for on such a simple leaf. Love the videos, and thanks for all your hard work!
Yes, the sights do match the trajectory. Since the barrel is much shorter than a rifle, the angle of inclination is much steeper than a rifle would be when you get to the high end of the leaf.
Awesome! Thanks for the reply!
Did Astra ever make them with longer barrels &/ drum mags
I'd really love an explanation some day for the seemingly ludicrously optimistic sight markings on the weapons of ~100 years ago.
Ian for future videos you may do on spanish weapons: in spanish, words that have "gue" or "gui" are pronounced without the U. For instance the way you pronounced "guernica?". You did so pronouncing the "u". the G sounds the same as in the way you used the word, but you don't pronounce the "u". It'd be g-ernika :).
Literally no one cares
@@dugpet2916 19 people did care.
@@dugpet2916 I care
time for a beer and a smoke and a forgotten weapons video!
I own an Astra 400 and 600. Would love to own this.
For anyone too lazy to do the fun switch math. The Astra 901 would empty its magazine in 0.75 seconds or 3 quarters of a second. The Astra 902 would do the same in 1.5 seconds or 1 and one half of a second.
yeah pretty much. although at close enough ranges such as in small to medium sized rooms, hallways and the like and assuming there's only a few targets say 2 or so it might be effective enough. Due to the high rate of fire more rounds can be fired before the effects of recoil pull you off target. But yeah aimed deliberate fire is much much more effective.
Drum magazine would be beter =)
Somehow I don't think that was offered from the factory.
Even quicker than that, I think. 20 rounds at 900rpm makes it 1.3 sec of fire-time. 900/60=15 rounds per sec ... 1/15=0.066 sec per round ... 0.066*20=1.33 seconds.
RyNsWoRLD yeah! My math was of the close enough for government work variety.
Ian with the teasing with the guns in background I spy a American model 30-06 Chauchat back there
More dakka?
DAKKA DAKKA!
For the Emperor!
All these folks making 40k references and I don't even like 40k!
Teehee!
WAAGH!!!
Gareth Fairclough: you can never have too much dakka, or even enough dakka.
Ian, can you do a video on the pp-19 Bizon Russian SMG if possible? Thanks.
Nice
in range TV just aint the same dude, good luck and well wishes on your endeavors
wut
ed swede the hell are you blabbing on about?
This guy gets all Spanish flags during history correct. So satisfying
nice
That WW1 BAR behind you, must have...
One-thousand meters may seem like a stretch, but I'd love to see one of these being fired at a man sized target from 500 meters, just to see what they could really do.
I'm glad this was a video about a gun instead of a book because I can't read
I saw that 30-06 Chauchat, please do something with it
Hey Ian, Can you do a review of a SKS?
It would've been a blast to see you firing the automatic one😺
there's already a video with a schnellfeuer
May your swords stay sharp! (mysss29) Thanks, I took a look and found some😺
:)
I feel like I'd pay more for something that was on forgotten weapons just because Ian touched it...
26 made several have been destroyed and others are in museums... I see, but has Ian held it sir?!
ian pls do a video on the .308 chauchat behind you or at least the differences between the 8mm and the .308
30-06 is what you mean
Baker Tankersley ahh yes miss type
lanner95 oh thanks didn't see that video
it would be 30-06 308 wasn't even developed in the 19 teens
i know i had something in my mind that told me that it was .308 i don't know why but i often get .308 and 30-06 mixed up for some reason
Almost bought a 900 once, but I was acting too snobby going off "I want a C-96 Carbine blah blah blah blah blah!"
I should of done it since they had Mauser good graces with them.
Have you done a video on that Chauchat up there yet?
902 vs 93R vs 18c shooting comparo, that would be amazing. Throw in an m11 for control. Bring cases of ammo.
6.58 made in Guernica Spain...ah now the bombing of said town by the Luftwaffe makes sense...they were pissed at the Spanish doing a Mauser knock off .
It is not so funy if your are Basque like me. Imagine, thousands of women and children dying.
Pleas do a video abot astra 4000 and field strip for it
Is that a Belgian converted Chauchat in the background?!
You all heard it. More rounds are better. It's a published fact.
good weapons from spain
I wonder why no one ever made a dedicated SMG version of the "broomhandle". Any ideas?
I absolutely love Spanish firearms from this era. I wish I spoke the language fluently. I would buy that book about firearms of the Spanish civil war in a heartbeat.
You mean a fixed-stock version?? I guess because this is just as good, maybe?
Looked at the Auction estimates. I know it's a super rare model in the original case, but jeebus. 2x the cost of the select fire model.
I have 903 model. Unfortunately spring which helps in working of this pistol in fully automatic is missing can some one suggest from where can I get that specific part ready to pay the cost.
I'm still stuck with "Wauser"
Any chance that the wood on the stock\holster has shrunk or warped in the intervening 70 plus years? The quality of wood required that would not deteriorate without more care than the gun itself would be prohibitive.
Ian, you don’t think the poor fit on the stock could be due to the fact that the wood is around 100 years old? I know wood likes to expand and contract depending on the conditions it’s exposed to, and I imagine that could play a role in the poor fit
Ian I'm curious, have you ever bought any of the guns you've done videos about at these auctions?
Yes, I have occasionally.
I got to shoot one, but now I'm not sure if it was a 903 because of the 20 shot magazine or a model F!
May I politely differ from your assessment by supposing that the optimism is in fact hilariously identical by its general totality whether fired one handed in automatic or singly from a ransom rest for all but maybe one of it's graduated elevation zeroes? Sarcastically yours, et cetera halfwittington the thrid.
Make a video about greek steyr mannlicher
"Take that, Guernica!..."
Would there be a chance of an Astra Model F review?
I have a question, the one shoulder stock that has the magazine cover, I thought it was a leather cheek rest, is that possibly a secondary function??
Hmm maybe.
The first time you mention the 901 in the description, it says "910".
Not exactly quick draw holsters, are they?
Maybe the new guy did the stock fitting before moving on to actual guns later?
Good grief, Spain makes more knockoffs than China
Well, there were days when all Europe made knockoffs of spanish weapons :)
The Spanish are also pretty damn good at beating up their own citizens in the name of democracy.
Ian explained this a few times in the past, patent law in Spain back at that time was such that you could only have enforceable patents on weapons if you were producing them *in* Spain. So basically a blank check to copy whatever if the original design was not produced in Spain. Edit: also, aren't patents on guns and such usually granted for around 25 years? The patent might have been expired in '28 anyway.
*Bonzi Buddy* They also sell more knockoffs to China.
My first pistol was a Llama 1911 knockoff. Fit and finish was actually great. No complaints.
More rounds is best rounds.
Hey they have a chauchat just like yours
Yes, they do.
A stylish pistol but a pain in the ass to load, especially the original German specimen when one needs to use the clip to load the thing properly.
Is it possible that the metal bits on the stocks are not original to the wood?
What model Astra did Henry carry in A Farewell to Arms?
How many videos on the C96 do you have?
At 900 rounds a minute 20 rounds takes 1.33 seconds to empty the magazine.
Is there a price estimate on Julia? I've never been able to see it.
These days there are several 9mm not made by Glock carbines being marketed today that are specifically designed to use the Glock 9mm magazines (FX, Kel Tec, etc.). I am at a loss to understand why Astra amd Mauser didn't simply design their pistols to work with MP-18/38/40 magazines. Since the .30 Mauser uses the same base case as 9mm Parabellum those magazines would have worked with either caliber while also making the pistols much more useful to military customers.
Probably because their design predated the 9mm cartridge.
@@tenlittleindians The Spanish Broomhandle full auto pistol popped up in 1927. Mauser select fire pistol, M712, came out in 1931. The 9mm Parabellum was well established by then,, as were stick magazines for the various sub machine guns of the era. Mauser had already done their 'red 9' semi auto pistols. The M712 used a short box magazine with their 7.63 cartridge. In both countries (companies Astra and Mauser) someone wasn't thinking IMO. A 9mm version using an MP18 stick mag (or similar mil std. sub gun magazine) would have been a very logical decision if the company truly wanted military sales, but neither one did so.
@@kenibnanak5554 You got it backwards. The Mauser came first in 7.62 way back in the 1800's when most guns were still cap and ball. Anything; including the 9mm versions for the German military market came long after the 7.62 round had been established. Stripper clips were cheaper to produce and lighter to carry than extra loaded magazines and since the Mauser never secured a large military contract they didn't need to make costly changes to their existing gun. Why would they want to make a costly design change to a competitors magazine system? They still managed to out sell all the competitors combined without the change you suggested.
Even their gun with it's stripper clips design probably sold in higher total numbers in China than the limited number of years their competitors were offering magazines.
They were a German company and made many other guns that did get military contracts so I'm thinking they just were being practical by not making those costly upgrades earlier.
By the time WW2 came around they had many guns with huge government contracts that had magazines. They still chose to use individual magazine designs even within their own brand and never fully adopted the 9mm as their only caliber for pistols or submachine guns.
@@tenlittleindians Your last paragraph is the important one. In 1931 they should have. The M712 would probably have been a lot more popular in 9mm. And even more so with a 30 round magazine.
@@kenibnanak5554 I think your failing to realize the 7.62 Mauser is a more powerful round! There wasn't a handgun round more powerful until the .357 mag and .44 mag came out. The only reason they pushed for the red 9mm versions was to have the handgun ammo compatible with their stamped out SMG ammo.
Look up the ballistics of both rounds if your in doubt. The Russians adopted it as did the Chinese for it's superior power.
C96 Carbine
Is that a .30-06 Chaouchat behind you?
Picasso's Guernica?
Opel Astra?
I just see pistol carbines lf C96 pistols
which model bergmann is this
I thought this was a Berthier?
If somebody wants to know the name of the manufacturer at 1:24 it's Beístegui Hermanos, the pronunciation isn't on point; they make bicycles nowadays.
nice! :)
Did Ian remonetize his videos? Lately I keep getting ads for Forgotten Weapons vids.
amin johari No, that was Inrange only. Forgotten Weapons is still monetized for now.
Real men shoot 308 oh, I thought both channels were demonetized. Thanks for telling me, makes it easier to cope with the ads (too poor to be a patron 😢).
This case is amazing. The gun is meh, but this case though... 😂
If you cut the stock then it will be used like a pistol/machine gun!
I wonder why no one nowdays makes pistols that have magazine front of the trigger?
+MythicFrost Designs like this are less compact, and more difficult to carry. But they are certainly very cool.
They're horribly unbalanced and thus not very good at all at being pistols. Later kludges like the Tec-9, for example, basically don't even try.
Another C96 carbine this time Spanish made.
Hey, Ian, wasn't Mauser not taking action against Astra for violating the copyright?
Duco Maritiem Because the Spanish law of the time allowed that.
If i remember correctly to 'protect' your patents in spain you had to have a factory there.
Yeah, Ian explains in an earlier video, and it's something like that.
Is that a chauchat converted to 8mm Mauser or 30-06 behind you ?
Martin Lenglet M1918 chauchat in .30-06
8mm Chauchats? :o
You don't need to be a better shot, you just need to shoot more bullets
Do I see a 1918 Chauchat?
Yes.
Forgotten Weapons Any chance we'll get to have a better look? I was under the impression they were so bad (hence the 8mm versions reputation)they were relegated to training, never saw combat, and that the army had destroyed all of them after the war . A quick going over would be a great supplement to your previous chauchat video.
Wouldn't the leather extra pouch get in your face if using the stock?
watch~ the video~
At no point in the video did Ian hold one of the pistols with stock attached up to his shoulder as if firing it. Nor did he take a video shot of the sights from a shooter's point of view. He did show how the stocks work and showed the stocks attached to the pistols - with the leather pouch in storage position. It's not clear whether the leather pouch in the open position would be sturdy enough to not get detached nor whether the loose leather pouch would be a distraction if not in the face of the user.
Okay. None of that was what you originally asked. I think the leather bit looks pretty out of the way when it's hanging down, (which is why I said what I did) but it's not clear whether it's riveted securely, or just snapped on....
Is that a Serbian or 30-06 Chauchat on the rack? Why has it not been fondled?
+The Void American in 30-06. I didn't film it because I have my own one coming.
Serbian Chauchat???
Those look like they wouldn't even fit in their own holsters
So it's a full auto c96 with 20 bullets and a stock
Evan Burke no, it's an Astra 902...
No I said it's basicly a full auto c96
A Spanish version maybe.....Mauser actually made a full auto version of the C96 called the Schnellfeuer after Astra made the 902.
Evan Burke you said 'so it's a full auto c96 with 20 bullets and a stock' and I'm telling you no, it's not. It is not a Mauser M712, it's an Astra 902.
Also note that the removable sideplate, for example, is an Astra improvement to the Mauser design.
But how do you reload it if the magazine is fixed?
Clips from the top.
With a strip
Tactical stripper clip reload :)
Those are 5 bucks more. Well worth the price if you ask me.
Well fixed means they fixed the issue of losing mags. You just disassemble the whole thing instead. Extra benefit is, this is very hard to do by accident, so you won't be left without any bullets in the gun unexpectedly
Is this muser C96?
No.
What name this SMG?