Secret to polishing with Force Rotation Dual Action Polisher
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
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I've been watching other detailing channels today (sorry Jon) but I always come back to yours for the 'no-nonsense truth' mate. Power to you Jon 💪
haha :) nice
You missed a perfect opportunity to introduce your misses to your detailing family and let her be proud of her salad. You owe her an apology.
I bought one of these at the beginning of the year and will never go back to free spinning machines again. It does take a few minutes to get used to it but once you’ve got over the initial wobbles it’s a fantastic piece of kit. Paired with the PXE you’ll need no other polishers. One useful piece of advice when using a forced rotation is to try polishing a horizontal panel first. That way I find you get used to the balance of the machine before going onto a door or other vertical panel.
Right in the money Jon, this is good content. I love how raw your videos are, it adds real life aspect to it, especially the humour.
Another great video Jon. Loved it! The balance of machine, arms and body is a huge topic in detailing. I've been talking about this for years. Cheers from Norway 👍😁
Thanks for another great video John. In particular thanks for the insight on the pro plus plate not being level. Just checked mine and it's a miles out!
Another great and informative video, always learning when it comes to machine polishing 👍
It’s a fantastic tool. Take a short time to get used to it but it works great. Thanks for your review. I love your channel, it’s my favorite 🎉
Ah the joys of married life hey Jon.. lol.. Their timing is always impeccable. Mine always does my head in.
These seriously interest me.
Thanks for the video! 🤙🏻 🚗 ❇️
Just got the corded version of xce, i love it. Its a bit tricky to control it compared to a free da, but nothing crazy, ill get used to it. I tested it on some holograms left after a repaint, it breezed trough them. This tool will help me get my jobs done much easyer and faster. I used a rotary before too, it cuts like butter, but on curved and tiny areas it can be a struggle to control it. Free da's are easyer to control, but it feels like the forced rotation is a compromise between free da and rotary. Excelent cut, and also good control on the panel, with no holograms.
Just bought the Flex PXE-80 from in2detailing, Thank you for the discount, saved me £42.90! Thanks mate, Need to decide Free spinning or Forced now for my larger machine.
Love. You video man. Thanks. For all. The. Info 😂❤
Hi buddy I've been loving your videos on lock down. I'm going to get some bilt hamber snow foam. And the shampoo. Please can tell be what to put on the car after I rinse the shampoo. to help drying the car to reduce the water beads. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Always a quality vid John...on your recommendation I got a forced rotation from Imran (his rip off flex brand) ... what a brilliant tool.... at that time only doing my car twice or 3 times a year I didnt feel comfortable spending £400 odd ... it was a happy alternative..... anyway for me with your guidance forced rotation is the way forward .... cheers
I've got a couple of different DA polishers, a forced rotation and a rotary, all of them get used regularly in my business but the forced rotation is the one I reach for first 90% of the time.
This is the kind of video I was looking for on how to use Dual Action FR! I wonder if you could do more but with a door panel. To show a different angle or holding a machine vertical.
Great video! Is there a benefit over a 15mm besides no stalling? Does it get around the vehicle faster?
Sir thanks so much. Do you have a suggestion where in London I can purchase it? Thanks so much
Hello Jon! Could use your advice. Getting ready to pull the trigger on either the cordless beast or corded beast (xce) and can’t decide. It will be my main go to tool. I love cordless but am hearing that the cordless version is not as good for correcting as it’s corded brother. Any insight since you use both? Thanks.
I’ve recently bitten the bullet and finally gone over to forced rotation and I have to say, I’ve been asking myself why the hell I didn’t do it earlier. 👍🏼👌🏼💪🏼
Hi Jon , I love my rotary , but as you show , it pulls me in directions and I don't feel smooth , love this video as it shows my technique still needs improvement , cheers jon
cool, I love my Flex 3401, how was the Salad ?
Jon have you seen the liquid elements cordless forced rotation it’s £180 on amazon but it has a 15mm throw never seen a long throw forced rotation
I am just about to try out my first forced oscillation polisher, a used flex 3401. No need to worry, I'm using my sister's car to get acquainted with the new machine. I appreciate the guidance, as always!
Wow, you found one used for sale? Lucky. I see original Rupes LHR15/21ES posted once in awhile, but almost *never* see a 3401. I did get a crazy good deal on an old G6 package once. It wasn't the polisher but the dozens of pads and polishes included that made it so awesome. What did you pay out of curiosity?
@@jdisdetermined I paid $500 for both the 3401 and a flex rotary pe14-2-150, the guy also included some pads and a bunch of CG polish. It was from a retired gentleman who quit showing his car and said each machine had been used about twice a year for the last 6 years. Everything else for sale around me was more expensive and had been used daily for years. The 3401 is meh, but the rotary (my first rotary) is extraordinary for its power mixed with quietness and smoothness. If you are looking for forced rotation and already have a random orbit polisher, I would focus on getting a flex rotary - it can cut better and can refine quicker than a forced rotation orbital or a random orbital.
@@scottmattern482 wow, really good deal. I have a Mille, but I'm kind of meh about it too. It would be awesome for mobile guys, you can get around an entire vehicle effectively with one full size polisher. But I work out of a shop so I have several polishers handy.
I've been eyeing the cordless Flex rotary for awhile. But I do have a few rotaries myself, I cut with a rotary if I'm doing a multistep correction, and use them with small pads and extensions for tight/edge work. I have a big heavy Makita I never use, a cordless M18 Fuel, and then a Maxshine compact.
I use the compact the most because it's so pleasant to use. I don't cut with heavy pressure, so it handles a 5" plate and pads just fine. It is light and precise and powerful and buttery smooth. A big loud long throw flapping around can feel like a sloppy unwieldy mess by comparison. 😁👍
@@jdisdetermined i was actaully getting ready to buy a new mille, that same day I came across the used flex deal. Im glad i was afforded the opportunity to use both a good rotary and a forced orbital. Furthermore, I appreciate someone who has more experience than myself confirm my own process and conclusions. Thanks for your input 👍
Sir how do you polish almost 90degree small bodyline on car bonet with da polisher as we cannot tilt da like rotary polisher
Ive just bought one of these today, the corded version as i dont want the hassle of charging batteries. I have the Flex rotary and the free spinning XFE . Rotary is great but i find the XFE pretty useless for anything but very light finishing work due to the stalling issue which is really annoying.
I have the same machine, IMO it’s the only thing that cuts close to a rotary. I also think compound plays a key role, you definitely need a compound with a bit more lube in it, I like S20 black on it and the new Rupes Mille coarse. I have the new lake country force pads on the way. Interesting to see how they perform.
How was the Lake Country forced pads. Cheers
Another great video, thanks! What's the effect of forced roatation 5mm vs 8mm throw? Makita vs Flex for instance
Slightly more coverage with the Flex and would say the slight orbit difference might make it a little better of a finish as well.
Fearless Jon kept us on the edge coming so close to that towel. I could see the polisher catching it and throwing the bottle and torch down the bonnet at any moment! 😓😓😓
I had to stop the video and eat a Xanax
I do need a forced rotation DA in my collection... 🤔 But tbh you see how hard a machine is to work with when you're going over to the door panels. Roof and hood is always easy imho
Jon, loving the "missis" making a double cameo appearance - wheres the salad??? Great video as always, any chance of you doinga no nonsence video on what video, audio and lighting kit you use and say your top 10 tips for making videos? Just an idea. Keep up the good honest work :-)
Jon fantastic vid again..quicky will the Maguires snow foam bottle will it fit karcher het wash it do thou have to get adaptor? Cheers
no idea mate but if its on sale in the uk without a karcher fitment I would be shocked. so 99% sure it is but thats a question for meguiars UK mate.
@@forensicunplugged4295 thanks Jon...your right should try and ask them I suppose. Only asked because you tried the snow foam bottle and you have a karcher lol
Great stuff Jon, well done. By the way did you eat the salad with your meat mains? 😉
Just purchased xce cordless What speed do use to compound and what speed to finish learned so much watching ur channel
5-6 to cut, 4-5 to finsish is a good thing mate.
I can use a rotary, short throw DA, long throw DA but I’ve never tried a forced rotation. Can’t see it being an issue though.
I think forced rotation is a halway point between a da and a rotary and ive found i can get better cut with a forced rotation, and i use it when im working on a badly scratched paint or a, very large vehicle as it saves time as can cover larger panels in less passes.
Spot on. Agreed. Rotary quicker. Can see why bodyshops guy / gal flat and polishing 2/4 cars a day only ONLY uses rotary. Speed. I feel cut is great DA forced rotation but I spend 2/3 times more on panel to get there but with close to zero risk burn. As a noob I’m still burning on the rotary. Champhered edges and door shuts plastic bumpers. Maybe use rotary on easy surfaces. Use DA forced on the rest of each panel. May try a double polisher idea. Where rotary won’t easily over heat a panel go in on rotary first. Da the rest of the panel
I’m starting on this machine Jon. Buying this week. My Q. I’m expecting to be pulled around. Should I use a much lesser speed to get going and is half speed half cut. Double time needed. Or is half speed like 4/5/6/8x slower to cut. I’m expecting tred slowly maybe use a medium to heavy cut. I’m on cheap cars not precious metal
no mate run it on speed 5 to cut.. push down a bit on machine to cut harder.
Just got the Harbor Freight Hercules one, and it is a beauty at $125, works super so far. I switched the geared 6" backer with a Flex 4-3/8" one (direct swap) so I could use my 5" pads, feels like I'm cheating!
Flex sounds really loud in the video. Is it like that in the flesh? I currently have a vertool forced but like the cordless idea.
no its like go pro micraphone sensitity... its not loud.
I saw some compound still on the pad after finishing the section. Would you put another 3-4 blobs of compound on for the next section or reduce the amount?
its just where it sinks into the pad. But yer always follow the set piece. after finishing the set. clean pad with tooth brush. then 4 more dots and away you go.
@@forensicunplugged4295 thank you
Good morning John... Totally unrelated question. I watched your car pro pearl video last night and can't find it for sale anywhere? The suppliers are all out of stock. Can you recommend a company with stock.
The stuff looks amazing 👌
Carpro PERL, bro and to recommend a supplier you’d have to say what region you live in.
slims are uk distributors now so everybody has to get it off them..
With a name like Nigel I shoulda known 😅
Is it rotating clockwise?
Sounds like the same principle as DA - keep the pad flat
Hey Jon, I've recently bought an XCE and am having a bit of difficulty cutting with it. I'm using LC HDO microfibre cutting pads with Scholl S3 gold, and i'm finding the polisher is vibrating a lot and jumping all the time. Just wondering what your thoughts are on this? Because the pad is thin I assume any slight off-blance will be directly transferred to the machine, but am I putting too much pressure? not enough product? Too much product? Running the same pad and compound on a DA i'm not having much issues, just with the forced rotation...
yes mate ditch the microfiber pads. Get foam flex pads purples to cut and flex orange to polish. done. microfiber pads only work well on free spinning dual action polishers. Search you tube for "Machine Polisher Glow in the Dark Geometric Dynamics
" watch my quick video with shows the orbits of these machines. the microfiber pads need to be ruffled up, or they get flattend out like crop circles by force rotation and especially rotary so they gunk up and stick. you dont need microfiber pads mate honestly, expensive and foam is just as effective.
@@forensicunplugged4295 Hey mate thanks for the reply! Unfortunately I only just bought the microfibre pads and this was my first time using them. I'm doing detailing on the side so was looking for a combination to speed up the cutting process. Unfortunately here in Aus no where stocks the Flex pads, currently I have Scholl Blue, purple and gold spider pads. The blue are meant to be the cutting pad, but i'm not sure if I rate them, the cells are very fine and closed so it tends to gunk up very quickly. I was thinking of maybe changing to Rupes Blue pads for cutting? As i'm going to these for my 1 - 3" pads, plus Rupes covers the full size range as you mentioned in you video on pads. The open cell structure of the Rupes seems to make for a fast cut and easy cleaning, although they spray a little. I'm also looking to change to Koch Chemie polishes. Thanks for your advice mate, very much appreciated!
@@uberlymick scholl pads are the same as flex basically. white=green purple=purple orange =orange. the blue one flex dont have.. use the scholl concepts. try and get the ones without the slits.
@@forensicunplugged4295 Thanks for the advice mate, much appreciated
@@uberlymick after 2 years what was the issue? did you ever solved? I just orderes one corded XCE today and will be my first time as I come from free rotation DA
How long do the batteries last for John? Are you at risk of heat wit the forced rotation like you would a rotary?
you can heat the paintwork but Ive never been able to make holgrames with it.
@@forensicunplugged4295 thanks for the reply John, yeah I did some reading about them, what's the battery on one?
I bought a Vertool FD machine a couple of years ago. Couldn’t justify the money for the Flex 3401. The Vertool is a great machine for the weekend warrior. Paired the machine up with Lake Country FD pads and Buff N Shine Eurofiber 50/50 pads.
Took about 10 minutes to adjust to it coming from a Kestrel DAS 6. Wouldn’t go back to a free spinning DA. I wish there was a 3” FD machine out.
Which do you prefer, Koch Chemie F6 or Sonax Perfect Finish?
koch. No particular reason you tend to just get used to what you use. PF has more cut and may even finish better but koch doesnt give me as much greif and is less prone to sticking to the panels.
What’s the model of f this flex polisher he’s using ?
XCE cordless mate.
Where does a guy get a battery powered forced rotation da polisher? Ive got the Milwaukee battery operated rotary but need a good FR DA polisher
flex cordless XCE from in2detailing Eric
@@forensicunplugged4295 do you think ill be worth it since i already have a rotary?
I have the Makita Forced machine and 1 I can’t get the backing plate off , 2 it’s always walking on me. I like it but when I’m on vertical panels I fight with it.
its harder to stay level on vertical panels. Are you running the 6inch plate Amir?
Forensic Unplugged no I’m using the 5”.
It’s all about balance and making sure the head is level, try keeping your hand right at the back of it and use it to tilt.
Paul Hamilton ok, thanks
You should bring the missus into your videos more, I love to see other people's domestics.... takes the sting out of mine. I wanna see that salad! 😂
Nice tip on the backing plates catching. 👌🏻
how are the vibrations at the handle? Is 3 kilos heavy?
I find it really smooth, 3kilo is ok but yer it is a bit heavy its like an extra 1-2 cans of coke weight.
@@forensicunplugged4295 thanks
I've still not taken the polisher plunge yet, but when I do I think it will be a forced rotation. The salad interruption comments had me in creases. Meanwhile my wife was mystified as to what was so funny (it was playing on TV).
8mm offset da forced rotation vs 5.5 to 6. What’s the score John. I hear less holograms vs rotary. My rotary died so in market for a machine that spins up fast doesn’t burn paint like rotary.
i would just get the flex mate. the orbit is different dynamics to da. it obrits fast but rotates slower so its almost like a vibrating hand.
@@forensicunplugged4295 Ended up cheap-ing out, went In2 copy of the Flex, yes it vibrates crazy, like a VIBE, it's a strange sensation that you do gell with, so so so different to Rotary, hardly any chance burning messing up, slower, double time of the Rotary with no stress. Excellent results , enjoying Forced DA Jon
John :)
Hope you are finally showing more love to your wife :)
Finally please confirm if forced rotation will finnish perfectly and holograms free when used with one step compound such as schol s20 and blue spider pad on black german paints or even japanese paints.
If it can then i am new forced rotation user as my near enough only machine.
Can it cut more than a 21 DA?
it will cut more consistently and its smoother. but its impossible to say what cuts more really theres just so many variables.
So is a forced da easier then rotary
yes.
Forget the timer beep thing. Have the polish change colour when it's over-worked.
I think Malco products do
For actual demo skip to minute 7:00 to 9:00.
Could you use the orange pad with sonax perfect finish as one step
yes will work great. purple if you want more cut.
you can do pretty much everything with flex purple and flex ornage hakim. they are as good as anything out there.
Forensic Unplugged Iv noticed bits of foam coming off purple pad after using a pad brush
Get that salad down ya boyo!
The timer is a good idea, they put them on battery powered toothbrushes.
Forced Rotation mini definitely still not out?
Best Cordless FR DA thanks
InTu 3401 clone £149 with a cord looks no brainer, take it steady
Great video john enjoy your salad
Salads are good for you
salad !!!!!!! .... I am not a rabbit,
I am a carnivore 🤣🤣🤣👍
Summer salad, Daddy-o
Maybe time to move away from my mk3 Rupes and get one of these.
Rupes do a forced rotation
hakman239 yea the Mille, but it’s not cordless.
hakman239 I nearly bought the Mille when I bought my LHR 15. I bought the PXE 80 last week so be as well going all cordless.
Get the missus on polishing.
Does a forced rotation machine give more cut when compared to a similar free spinning mc ? May be a future vid ? Keep eating the salad 😉😉
they way I describe it is its more consistent. you will notice if your polishing something thats heavily swirled. Sometimes with a DA when you are inspecting you see little patches of swirls its missed.. typically around the edges or in valleys. I find I get a more consisteny level of cut with the force rotation and I can work a more tricky curvey surface better with it.
@@forensicunplugged4295 many thanks for replying, very useful 😁
That's a really noisy machine John
no its not, remember your not hearing the machine directly your hearing a default recording level from the go pro which has a tiny sensitive micraphone.
You really need to focus on the topic :-) way too much fooling around. But you must be an awesome guy for company on the pub