Agree completely. Reasonably priced FUN on 2 wheels that are GREAT commuters, reliable as heck.... Yea, Love my Moto Morini for EXACTLY this. Chinese made...😮💨... BUT Damn well made! YES, I'd rather it be made here! Of Course.... Just like "Reasonably priced cars"... Just Impossible without being import... And ... Those are near Impossible today $$$ wise. Still.... Would buy my Seiemmezzo again!👍❣️
What a joke, the idea of Harley's being a "working man's bike". Bought my first one new in 1990 at $10,500. That's $25,500 in today's dollars. You can buy a basic Street Glide for that today and its ten times the FXRT I bought new in 1990. Only change, the wine got a lot stronger...I mean the whine.
The problem with Harley is the thing that drives Harley. The image. You can't sell 500cc, 750cc, liquid cooled bikes to Harley guys because they don't think it's a real Harley, and the people who would buy that bike aren't even walking into the Harley dealership because of the people I just mentioned. It's a catch 22. Then there's the price problem. The ceo believes that everything with HD on it is automatically worth twice as much. People looking for a small displacement, cheaper, lighter motorcycle are already looking at Honda, Suzuki, etc. They aren't looking at Harley for the most part. When I started riding I told my buddy I was looking at a used street 750, and he begged me not to get it because it's not a real Harley and I won't be accepted by the guys. So, I bought an iron 883, and still wasn't accepted by the guys. It's a ridiculous, schoolboy mentality in the motorcycle community with a lot of guys.
ABSOLUTELY IAGREE! I BOUGHT MY FIRST HD, A XL1200R, AFTER 40 YEARS OF OWNING BMWS. AND SOON EXPERIENCED SHUNNING FROM THOSE WHO RIDE THE 900 LB 2-WHEEL "CARS" CALLING SPORTSTERS "GIRL BIKES". REALLY!? FORGET YOU AGING-OUT DICK WAGGING CLOWNS! I WOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER STEPPING UP TO A PROPER 500 HD!
I've been riding HD for over 30 years. I was excited when the Street line was about to come out. Low displacement bikes for my kids? And, made in America?! Huge win! Then Harley didn't bother marketing it, and styling wasn't great on the tail-end. Dude, those riders that criticize your ride barely ride themselves. They sit behind corporate desks all week, and hop on a giant touring bike to ride around town an Saturday evening, until they decide whether to eat Hooters or a steak house. I literally knew a guy that would trailer his Streetglide 5 miles across town, unload at a bank parking lot, and ride 6 blocks to the bar that sponsored bike night. Ride what you want. Screw the haters
Harley needs to focus on building quality first, because NFW would I buy a 500cc bike for $12K even if it had the Harley name on it when I can get a Royal Enfield for less than half that cost.
@@logangodofcandy They already do. The issues are more of design, integration, and reliability. Some of these can be considered "first year" issues while others are endemic of bad design and poor quality suppliers. If you're paying premium prices for a motorcycle you want Quality and Value otherwise you have a rapidly depreciating money pit.
So, I've been riding for 40 years or so, I've had over a dozen bikes, and have 3 in my garage right now. I've never wanted a Harley, because they don't make the kind of bikes I want. They *almost* made the Bronx, and that would've been the first one they made that was interesting to me. Horsepower on par with other brands, a good seating position that allowed for "spirited" riding, lighter weight, etc. But sadly, no. They canceled it. I'm not in to "the culture," "heritage styling," or the Village People dress code. I want interesting bikes that run and handle well, not 5 versions of the same bike that redline at 4,000 rpm and weigh 800 lbs. The people that want those bikes are aging out of riding, and the new riders want performance, bulletproof quality, and a reasonable price. Until HD delivers that, they will continue to decline.
HD should never have pulled the plug on Buell, they owned a company that could have brought a small displacement bike to market. But instead they ripped off a brilliant engineer and sent him packing right when his product was catching on. That's my two cents worth.
After owning three of them, I have decided that HD deserves to go broke! Either that or fire everyone from the janitors on up at the corporate headquarters. Most of the new HD parts are made in India anyway, and that's where HD should stay! Traitors!
I would love to buy one these bikes. I am 57 and started riding when I was 20. I don't need a huge bike. My riding is all back roads 50 mph. I like small and light bikes. My current bike is a 2003 BMWF650CS. I expect to replace it with a BMW G310GS. I would buy a baby harley in a heart beat. For me all I need is ABS, fuel injection, and if possible something other than chain drive.
For me, it would be very helpful and proactive to expand the 1250 line (without) de-tuning it. I really like traditional H-D's, but that 1250 could be a game changer...at least an option for consideration. Put one in a naked bike (Bronx), a weight appropriate tourer, and keep improving the adventure line.
@@whygarywhy The 1250 has a lot of flaws, it'll eventually come out in terms of recalls. When you can buy 1-year-old Pan Americas for $8000 at auction, it should tell you a lot.
The X350 is a damn nice bike to ride. I'm 5'11 240lbs and on the interstate I could get it up to 72 before hitting the rev limiter. The limiter is set lower than what the engine can go to as it is used as a training bike. I can pull off from a dead stop in second gear at idle without slipping the clutch,definitely cannot do that on the street 500. There is no comparison on the ride and brakes between the x350 and street 500.
You are 1000% right. 4 years ago I took the basic skills course through the Harley Riding academy. In Illinois, in order to be licensed to ride a motorcycle, you need to pass a low speed skills class, so I was definitely in the market for a small, nimble bike to practice on. I would have loved to buy a used X350RA to practice on as my first bike. Unfortunately, the cheapest used Harley at the dealership was over $10,000. Yup... hard pass. My guess is Harley can't sell them for the price it costs to make them. Google tells me an X350 costs $8400. A Honda Rebel 300 costs $4800.
Why Royal Enfield made the Bear this year and HD or even Indian, could have been making a retro dirt track racer 5 speed, air-cooled, bench seat basic low cost bike... but they both do not care for the starter bike and grow a dedicated buyer for life. 7-8k dollar bike that is easy to work on and retro back to track racing look. Put a hot lady next to it. It sells it self!
@scoutandscooter my RE dealership that is closest to me is an Indian dealership. He was just an Indian dealer, but wanted to support the new rider with options. Why RE, did what I have been asking HD to build the last 10 years or more, to make the RE Bear, but made by HD! And they wonder why they are not doing that well. The RE today, is VW in the 60 and 70s of transportation. Friendly and inexpensive along with quality and reliable. I might just buy the Bear, rather then what I was thinking of getting a HD sportster pre 1998. Just as easy to work on, but new and inexpensive parts.
A good small displacement bike would be be a godsend for Harley. With the quality control Harley has become known for it would be a no brainer 1st bike. And if Harley sold a reasonably priced package that included the bike, gear and rider academy they would see a surge in first time riders and buyers.
Huh, the problem with Harley Davidson is thier lack of diversity in the motorcycle industry. I have friends I ride with that are so against anything being done other than that single pin pushrod motorcycle. The one thing I keep trying to get through to them is that The Japanese companies build bikes with training wheels. I'm 62 years old and have never owned anything from Harley Davidson. I've test rode them but always chosen a motorcycle from Japan. My last test ride was 6 years ago. After test riding a roadglide ultra ,I told the sale guy to punch the v rod engine to a 100 cu put on a shaft drive and a better air ride and that I would consider that. Well the die hard faithful in the dealership were spitting tacks over that idea. One guy asked what kinda biker would think that, I told him a motorcyclist would but a biker wouldn't. There in lies the problem with Harley Davidson. Until they realize that not everyone is interested in thier image ,
@@MakisOfEquinox Not a thing, I have a 2024 Phantom in the garage, I don't get too wrapped up in things and enjoy a good play on words, so Hardly Davidson it is.
Long time Harley rider here. No, it would be a huge backlash from the all American group screaming how they going to shut down all the us plants and next year they all be made in (Fill in the foreign country of your chose) It was not that long ago, Harley offered the 500 and 750 street bikes, originally made and designed in there India plant for the Indian/European markets. But these bikes were made in Kansas city plant for the North American market so they could keep it all American made. As I remember them, they just didn't sell very well. While they were good for India, the style was a bit odd, and not to the same level of the rest of Harley's line. Then there is also the market saturation level of a parallel twin, basically a Triumph Bonneville wannabe. Then there is Royal Enfield, Harley is working with them, and many of the Harley Dealers carrier RE. It would make more since to bring these two bikes made in India in with the RE name on them to avoid the whole "Not American Made" issue, and I think that is coming.
The hell yeah brothers would have heart attacks. I've warmed up to the idea of a Harley made overseas. But I'd at least want it designed in America. I think Harley was on the right track with the street rod 750. That was a hell of a deal at the time. Inverted forks, dual disk, piggyback shocks. Revolution motor. And I think it was cheaper than an 883 at the time. And it was produced in America. Something like that, with the lowered cost of overseas production, would be on point. And of coarse, the hell yeah brothers hated the street rod lol
The Street Rod was the only HD I'd even consider (I usually buy standards from Japanese brands), as the Street Rod was the only reasonable modern standard offered by HD. And yet the Street Rod sold terribly despite having the lowest price, go figure. I've looked occasionally for a Street Rod but their prices go up!
Those are ugly ass bikes. They were specifically designed to be ugly. They are the same mistake as the Honda fury. Make good looking bikes with those engines.
These are not great bikes overall… it’s basically a naked bike and if you’re looking for a naked bike there are much better & cheaper alternatives out there.
It's unfortunate that Harley Davidson is in this position, but with government mandatory emissions and the design of these motorcycles with no ability for the owners to diagnose and repair them at home with basic tools with a few specific tools....is a contributing factor. And although it's was a bad decision to just tell older Harleys ownership your no longer welcome at our shops. I didn't do any favor for long-term supporters, but unfortunately everyone gets older....so many do ride anymore and newer generations are glued to smart phones and other digital devices. Harley Davidson has tossed history in the garage and tried to a reinventing of some cheep knock off of Harley Davidson history to attract anyone. For me I'm just so fortunate to have the ability to work on my older Harley and ride it..unless Harley Davidson realizes the future is embarrassing the past and welcoming back all Harleys to their dearlships...they are destined to be no more...
So many good points about how young people don’t see Harley’s in the same way as their ageing population, which is what Harley is doing wrong as a company, scaring away potential future customers. The X-models are sold here in Australia, as were the Street models. You see the Street 500 everywhere and many of those owners will very likely move up to a bigger Harley, and the assumption is that Xmodel owners will do the same. Harley has to think beyond older Gen Xrs and Boomers if they are to survive, sell the lower capacity intro models, sell something like the Bronx, or Honda, Royal Enfield, Triumph and Kawasaki will take all the future potential customers.
The problem is Harley marketing. They have no idea how to market that bike to non-Harley riders. Look at the RevMax bikes. They are meant to bring in new riders, but they keep trying to sell those to Harley riders. Non Harley guys have no idea what those bikes are. I traded one in to a dealership two weeks ago and they had no idea what it was.
You got to start riders somwhere , i know in most of the westen world its illegal to ride a bike over 660cc ( prior to 2010 it was only 250cc) , and tou must ride this small bike untill you get a full licence , that takes untill about 4 years in most countries to get a full bike licence or more in Australia ( you must have a full car licence before starting the extra 4 years to a full bike licence in Australia, so your on your way to 30 years old before you can legally ride a Big Harley in Australia) . So smaller learner Harleys would get people alined to a brand . Look at Honda they sell their kids dirt bikes at a loss and lose money on them , but they gain a "Brand" customer for life because thats the bike dad got you as a kid , and dad got it because it was cheaper than it should be. Harley Davidson Australia sells 500 cc V2 Harleys that are learner legal to ride , they have made a killing on them .
I think there must be something wrong with Harleys. When I look through ads for used bikes a high percentage are Harleys. Makes me wonder. Plus Harleys are expensive compared to Hondas and Honda is a good dependable bike.
Everyone is trying to save H-D but Harley. They did try with the XG 500/750 but dropped them. Not many new riders and young people cannot live with out tech devices. Will H-D start building affordable bikes for the masses? So far no.
The modern Harley-Davidson corporate and rider mentality refuses to accept a small, practical, attractive, low-cost beginners' model, even though the brand desperately needs one. 😂
I think it will be a hard sell to argue that a Harley is an everyday commuter bike. It's too big, too heavy, not that economical to run and way too expensive, both in retail price and maintenance. A commuter bike is a much smaller, lighter and nimbler bike, that's not that expensive to buy and maintain.
I think that the biggest problem is that sportsers don’t sell well in the USA. They couldn’t pass emissions in their current form. The same people who are saying HD needs to sell an entry level bike, will not buy a liquid cooled HD, much less a sportster.
way over priced. young people don't have money. there are tons of better bikes at reasonable prices. Harley isn't selling more bikes. their selling more expensive bikes
I’ve owned 29 motorcycles in my 64 years and I have owned exactly 2 that I bought new. I’ve owned and ridden every brand available in America and Canada, 2 have never let me down or stranded and those 2 are H-D and Yamaha. There’s 1 of each of those in my barn and if you want to ride what you really want NEVER buy new. The used bike market is flooded with great low mileage bikes and if you shop you can ride whatever you want without spending a fortune. Ride On.
They refuse to sell it, exactly because of what you said "the sportster, the old ones that i actually used to like, not the new ones" I have a twin cam & can admit the m8 is better. Likewise, the current sportsters are great, there a lot like dynas from the warly 2000s in many ways. The new sportsters have great engines & way better suspension. Theres really no reason to dislike them. Yes, i also have a soft spot for the air cooled twin cam & evolution engines. Theyre cool for there simplicity, being tractor like is actually true. The problem is, this bike would devalue the brand. They not looking to become mainstream. They make money on the expensive bikes, dealers have little mark up/wiggle room on any bike under $15k. Harley cant make as many bikes as honda, so they need to sell them for more. Harley doesnt want to become the "learner bike brand"
The CEO has stated publicly, something to the effect of, we want HD to be known as a premium motorcycle brand. So yes I think you’re right, for the American market, I think we’re going to see a trend towards more power, more farkles, more tech, and more luxury, rather than more affordability and access. They will probably flood the international market with the more affordable, low displacement options. While I disagree with the CEOs intent, I don’t necessarily think they’re wrong. The American HD market is stuck in their ways. HD fans definitely care more about style than substance.
Let's talk widgets. It used to be, we sell more widgets, "we get more money" make widgets cheap. The motivation has changed. Make less widgets, justify the price of said widget, more margin per widget, "we get more money" Less volume , more margin models have taken over the marketplace.
As an incentive how about a discount towards the purchase of one of the smaller bikes upon completion of Harley’s rider program? However, a problem is that most riders need a bike that can handle short junts on an interstate to commute or even to get to where the back-roads begin. Got to have something that’ll cruise at 65 for a few miles.
Problem is the whole “if I want something that sounds like a weed eater I’ll get a Honda” attitude. Would be tough to get Americans over that. I think that’s the biggest hurdle is how to get the Harley community to accept that a Harley can be under 1000cc.
Harley community can't let go of the geezer glides. This would be a good bike for them to get into the younger new rider market, but Harley doesn't like to innovate or market to anyone other than the geriatrics.
lol wrong, I’ve been on Harley’s since 32. I’m on my 4th Harley. 3rd bagger. There are younger people buying Harley’s. The old people are dying out and not buying Harley’s to much anymore. I just bought a new 23 Roadglide-ST last year.
There's no shortage of manufacturers producing smaller displacement, very nice motorcycles. Does Harley want to put a machine into the market that would be another choice among many? You don't see Ferrari or Porsche making a car to compete with the Corolla. It's just not their space. Harley is currently a very aspirational brand which has a place in the market that I'm sure is envied by most other manufacturers. They should focus on what they do best.
They should introduce a PanAm 975 price tag $12,499 Sportster Classic price tag $10,499 X500 price tag $9,499 X350 price tag $6,499 PanAm I think is self explained Sportster Classic based off the iron 883 engine The X-series bikes are good, but should be sold under the "standard" harley premium... because it needs to attract not only new generation and newer riders, but should be such a value that "some" not all classical harley riders will at least take a look at it, be shocked that the bike is good, don't buy BUT will speak good on the bikes behalf and endorse it.
We used the X350 bike in the Riders Academy at HD the dealership… I absolutely hated this bike... Herky jerky throttle, felt extremely cramped on it… and overall not a very comfortable bike to ride. At the end of the course I was more than ready to get off of the X350.
The KTM Duke and RC 390 are made in India, and those two bikes are some of KTM’s best selling street bikes in North America. I think it would be extremely smart for HD to sell those bikes here in the US.
no I completely disagree here. I have a buddy that works at a Harley dealer as one of the instructors for the beginner course and I wanted to try it out because he stated that they just received those new bikes and those bike are meant for a completely different market because I have tried multiple bike and by far that one is the most uncomfortable bike I have ever been on. For the people agreeing I would say go to your local Harley dealer that provides classes and ask if you can sit on one just to try out. I have tried sports bikes, cruisers and dirt bike trust me when I say that one shouldn't be sold here in the US. My opinion!
With all respect to Hegshot I completely understand his opinion but disagree completely. All Harley Davidson would be doing is filling their showrooms and service departments with a bunch of people who aren’t committed to the product line but came for the special offer and appearance of owning something upscale. I previously worked as a technician at a multi line European new car dealership. One of the makes we sold was Jaguar. I remember when Jaguar did something simians introduced the X-Type, a small compact car that they could sell for 1/3rd the price. No rich business person, celebrity or local professional sports star wanted to be around this trash and we lost sales. They didn’t want to drive a brand of vehicle that was no longer exclusive. Those new folks never were able to afford the classic vehicles we sold or the new high tech ones coming out to market. All they wound up doing was to turn our high end luxury decorated service waiting area and showroom into a 3 ring circus. The sales dewars jubilant when that cheap model was quickly discontinued.
Harley-Davidson is doomed for failure until they start at the top. Return all manufacturing to the US of A. Then replace the CEO with a Harley riding Individual who loves American Values. Then fire EVERYONE on the board ( there are no exceptions ) and replace them with like minded persons that share the same values, Harley riding Individuals who loves American Values. Until then, nothing good will come out of this brand other than complete failure.
Harley-Davidson already has an “entry level” bike, it’s the very Iron 883 you mentioned. Harley-Davidson doesn’t want to further cannibalize their product line with another entry level bike. The Touring models are and will remain the focus of the Motor Company.
It’s also not as good for beginners due to the relatively large displacement compared to other offerings on the market. There’s a lot of people who want to start on under 500cc’s and less than 7K out the door.
All they have to do is import the x 440 at a reasonable price. The 350 and 500 are too expensive compared to other brands in the British style. RE is killing Harley with new riders, it is the economy as Bill Clinton run on.
Royal Enfield seems to be doing just fine making 350 cc to 650 cc bikes that are inexpensive, reliable, and apparently quite fun to ride. I don't know if Harley could really compete in that market here in the US, but it doesn't look like they even want to try to here. If they do want to compete in it, Harley dealers had damned well better get off of their high horses and start treating customers like actual CUSTOMERS. Their arrogance is a real turn off for me. I'll not be trading my 2012 FLHXSE3 CVO Street Glide on any new Harley any time soon - if ever - the way things are now..
Further, Harley-Davidson is a luxury brand, and many of the Harley-Davidson faithful refuse to accept this. This brand/bikes are not meant to be sold in mass volume across the lower price spectrum of motorcycles.
i'm someone who started out on honda motorcycles. i use to laugh at everyone riding a harley. why? several reasons, the amf era, the cost, and lack of reliability. why ride a constant repair bike, when you could buy honda, and just ride with a lot less issues. i now ride a harley, my 3rd. i dont, and wont buy new, i buy used. this hd has been as reliable as any honda i've owned. cost wise i could buy a new honda for $10 / 11k, or i could buy this hd for $13k. hd has a real draw from other riders, not something i experienced on any of my hondas.
People think harleys sales are hurting because theyve gone "woke". The truth is, harleys sales last quarter was up a few percentage points. For the last 9 years, ive test rode every model on demo rides. The truth is, harley is more performance oriented now, then ever before. Certain models have brembo & ohlins now. Suspension & refinement has improved drastically, starting when the m8 was released. Its been getting better every year.
What the heck is Video Cycle House - saw you on that channel while YouTubing on my tv went to find Hegshot on my phone to give video a like and couldn’t find it. Weird.
I'm done with Harley so It doesn't matter what they do. And that's coming from a life long owner of over 11 Harley's. 13 if you count the ones my wife owned. I no longer own one. The wife still owns one but in the spring that's about to change.
I'm sure that motorcycle is made in India. However the Triumph 400 series is made in India, BMW 310 series is made in India. All under the QC of those companies but all made in India.
The Bronx resonable pricedand offered in three different styles would do it. Honda has had great success with the modern cb 500s Affordable and good looking bikes offered in three different styles.
I don’t think it’s a problem with the motorcycle prices but a problem with the younger generation for the older guys we where out chasing women and going to work and partying now they don’t even think about getting a drivers license until they 20-25 years old and do we really want someone that is not sure what a man or a woman is on a motorcycle. We are going to loose a lot of things that we love because the younger generation is not ready or able to handle and support theses companies
Ill never be able to afford a new HD... i cant even afford a used Harley... id love to buy one of those $3k harleys... but if they wont sell it here, ill have to go for the Ice Bear....
Harley Davidson already tried this with the Street 500 and 750's several years ago. People didn't want a budget Harley Davidson made outside of the US. Why would these bikes be any different? Maybe perception of the potential buyers changed? I don't think so especially now as there would be too much internet negativity that new people would see and just get a Honda. Maybe if the motorcycles were made in America it could have something different, some unique appeal. I don't like how the RevMax engine line is going to foreign manufacture. That's kind of a big draw of HD. I'm of the small subset of non HD riders that would buy the new Revmax motorcycles like the Bronx. I can always get 30 years worth of classic HD cruisers (I currently have an 04 Sportster Roadster) but there's just nothing compelling for me to buy a new HD. I really thought the More Roads to Harley Davidson was a good idea for desensitizing the masses to other Harley Davidson options and get them used to seeing HD as a full line manufacturer and THEN they might be able to introduce a smaller more budget friendly motorcycle. It's just too different and big of a jump right now to go from budget and learner bike to $15,000 700 pound classic motorcycle. if they were actually good motorcycles like the Pan America and Sportster S/Nighter are. New line HD's while also keeping the HD Classic line. It doesn't have to be "Replace the old with the new" Keep both. Win win for everyone (except for budget motorcycles... for now :-))
Seems to me that a company that embraced DEI would want to sell motorcycles to everybody. But wait, let's exclude those who can't afford to buy our multi tens of thousand dollar bikes in this country. Hypocrisy at its finest, eh?
“Are they going to pass that savings on to you and me, absolutely not.” You sound like you think they’re going to be making money. They won’t. The space for smaller bikes is extremely crowded and they will be hard-pressed to compete with the rest of the world. They are not going to get the brand premium they get on their larger motorcycles. They won’t have any choice but to pass on the savings in order to compete on price.
I was looking for my first bike, I wanted a harley but I ended up with a triumph (scrambler 400x) a entry bike manufacture by Bajaj. The harley was too heavy and expensive to be my first bike. Harley don’t offer those cheaper bikes in Brasil, here Honda and Yamaha are the biggest manufacturers.
I was in the market for a sportster or a nightster last year. I was immediately turned off by the "half-assed" asthetic of those bikes. The right side looks good. The left side looks unfinished, naked, and just plain ugly. It's the tale of two bikes when walking around it. It really turned me off. Their design quality is dipping severely. Don't get me started on the political issues. That's not what this is about. I'm in the market for a Triumph now it looks like. HD is but an afterthought with me.
I think they dont want to dilute the brand in america where they are a muxh loved luxury domestic brand. The marketing nerd in me would love to see the market research on this. However, triumph have very successfully managed to tread that line here in the UK. Incidentally the triumph 400's look better than this particular Harley and come in cheaper overseas. Having said all that i do believe that the learner bike market segment is massive and harley should try to compete in it. A new model of this 500 should be something they are considering for worldwide release
I was about to disagree and point out that HD sold thousands of them. Then I realized that I’m old, you’re not talking about the small 2 stroke bikes HD sold in the 60s and 70s, and that my pre-AMF memories of HD really aren’t relevant anymore!
As someone who just got into bike 3 years ago, i started on a shadow that i got for a good price, turned it into a bagger, seat, etc And then got a newer heritage gifted to me by a family friend, even at the price of free i gotta be honest i would rather a Honda with some more power over the Harley. Looking at 1st Gen Valkries. Everything they make is just overpriced and under built. The handling is pretty bad on the heritage, the boomer saddle bags and seat with studs and tittie tassles are the most 🌈 people 🌈 things I've ever seen. The Harley logo over everything ruins an otherwise beautiful paint job and the sound is unbearably annoying from the V&H pipes the guy put on there. Younger people are just a lot less likely to have admiration for a brand that prides itself on being an annoying sack of crap for better or for worse.
Triumph's 400 line up sold over 50000 units in the first year.
There's a market for lower cc bikes.
American Made is what I hear from all the Harley riders with Bar and Shield stickers on their Toyotas and Hondas. 😂
These idiots killed all the working man bikes. The younger riders just can't afford a big Harley. I still couldn't justify a $30000 bike.
Agree completely.
Reasonably priced FUN on 2 wheels that are GREAT commuters, reliable as heck....
Yea, Love my Moto Morini for EXACTLY this.
Chinese made...😮💨...
BUT Damn well made!
YES, I'd rather it be made here!
Of Course....
Just like "Reasonably priced cars"... Just Impossible without being import... And ... Those are near Impossible today $$$ wise.
Still.... Would buy my Seiemmezzo again!👍❣️
Same with muscle cars. Use to be you could aspire to own one as a worker and eventually achieve it. Now it's just a symbol of a poser rich boy.
This is why I will always buy used bikes;
I'll never get involved with Harley Davidson Corporate.
Greedy, and no common sense about the market.
Plenty of used Harleys out there. No need to buy new. I didn't buy my first new Harley until I've been riding 35 years.
What a joke, the idea of Harley's being a "working man's bike". Bought my first one new in 1990 at $10,500. That's $25,500 in today's dollars. You can buy a basic Street Glide for that today and its ten times the FXRT I bought new in 1990. Only change, the wine got a lot stronger...I mean the whine.
The problem with Harley is the thing that drives Harley. The image. You can't sell 500cc, 750cc, liquid cooled bikes to Harley guys because they don't think it's a real Harley, and the people who would buy that bike aren't even walking into the Harley dealership because of the people I just mentioned. It's a catch 22. Then there's the price problem. The ceo believes that everything with HD on it is automatically worth twice as much.
People looking for a small displacement, cheaper, lighter motorcycle are already looking at Honda, Suzuki, etc. They aren't looking at Harley for the most part. When I started riding I told my buddy I was looking at a used street 750, and he begged me not to get it because it's not a real Harley and I won't be accepted by the guys. So, I bought an iron 883, and still wasn't accepted by the guys. It's a ridiculous, schoolboy mentality in the motorcycle community with a lot of guys.
ABSOLUTELY IAGREE! I BOUGHT MY FIRST HD, A XL1200R, AFTER 40 YEARS OF OWNING BMWS. AND SOON EXPERIENCED SHUNNING FROM THOSE WHO RIDE THE 900 LB 2-WHEEL "CARS" CALLING SPORTSTERS "GIRL BIKES". REALLY!? FORGET YOU AGING-OUT DICK WAGGING CLOWNS! I WOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER STEPPING UP TO A PROPER 500 HD!
You nailed it. HD desperately needs a small, low price beginning bikes, but the modern Harley-Davidson corporate and rider mentality forbids it.
@@robbyclark6915 you need new friends bro, sorry you had that experience :(
I've been riding HD for over 30 years. I was excited when the Street line was about to come out. Low displacement bikes for my kids? And, made in America?! Huge win! Then Harley didn't bother marketing it, and styling wasn't great on the tail-end.
Dude, those riders that criticize your ride barely ride themselves. They sit behind corporate desks all week, and hop on a giant touring bike to ride around town an Saturday evening, until they decide whether to eat Hooters or a steak house. I literally knew a guy that would trailer his Streetglide 5 miles across town, unload at a bank parking lot, and ride 6 blocks to the bar that sponsored bike night.
Ride what you want. Screw the haters
Well said and the sad truth 👍👍
Harley needs to focus on building quality first, because NFW would I buy a 500cc bike for $12K even if it had the Harley name on it when I can get a Royal Enfield for less than half that cost.
They can just build parts in another country with high standards, then ship and assemble in the US
@@logangodofcandy They already do. The issues are more of design, integration, and reliability. Some of these can be considered "first year" issues while others are endemic of bad design and poor quality suppliers. If you're paying premium prices for a motorcycle you want Quality and Value otherwise you have a rapidly depreciating money pit.
So, I've been riding for 40 years or so, I've had over a dozen bikes, and have 3 in my garage right now. I've never wanted a Harley, because they don't make the kind of bikes I want. They *almost* made the Bronx, and that would've been the first one they made that was interesting to me. Horsepower on par with other brands, a good seating position that allowed for "spirited" riding, lighter weight, etc. But sadly, no. They canceled it.
I'm not in to "the culture," "heritage styling," or the Village People dress code. I want interesting bikes that run and handle well, not 5 versions of the same bike that redline at 4,000 rpm and weigh 800 lbs. The people that want those bikes are aging out of riding, and the new riders want performance, bulletproof quality, and a reasonable price. Until HD delivers that, they will continue to decline.
HD should never have pulled the plug on Buell, they owned a company that could have brought a small displacement bike to market. But instead they ripped off a brilliant engineer and sent him packing right when his product was catching on.
That's my two cents worth.
I totally agree.
After owning three of them, I have decided that HD deserves to go broke! Either that or fire everyone from the janitors on up at the corporate headquarters. Most of the new HD parts are made in India anyway, and that's where HD should stay! Traitors!
I would love to buy one these bikes. I am 57 and started riding when I was 20. I don't need a huge bike. My riding is all back roads 50 mph. I like small and light bikes. My current bike is a 2003 BMWF650CS. I expect to replace it with a BMW G310GS. I would buy a baby harley in a heart beat. For me all I need is ABS, fuel injection, and if possible something other than chain drive.
For me, it would be very helpful and proactive to expand the 1250 line (without) de-tuning it. I really like traditional H-D's, but that 1250 could be a game changer...at least an option for consideration. Put one in a naked bike (Bronx), a weight appropriate tourer, and keep improving the adventure line.
I agree
@@whygarywhy The 1250 has a lot of flaws, it'll eventually come out in terms of recalls. When you can buy 1-year-old Pan Americas for $8000 at auction, it should tell you a lot.
They can continually update the 1250. Indian and triumph make great liquid cooled 1200s. It isn't alien technology
The X350 is a damn nice bike to ride. I'm 5'11 240lbs and on the interstate I could get it up to 72 before hitting the rev limiter. The limiter is set lower than what the engine can go to as it is used as a training bike. I can pull off from a dead stop in second gear at idle without slipping the clutch,definitely cannot do that on the street 500. There is no comparison on the ride and brakes between the x350 and street 500.
You are 1000% right. 4 years ago I took the basic skills course through the Harley Riding academy. In Illinois, in order to be licensed to ride a motorcycle, you need to pass a low speed skills class, so I was definitely in the market for a small, nimble bike to practice on. I would have loved to buy a used X350RA to practice on as my first bike. Unfortunately, the cheapest used Harley at the dealership was over $10,000. Yup... hard pass. My guess is Harley can't sell them for the price it costs to make them. Google tells me an X350 costs $8400. A Honda Rebel 300 costs $4800.
the X500 is a great bike. i am talking from experience. i have logged 30K miles on mine with zero problems.
Why Royal Enfield made the Bear this year and HD or even Indian, could have been making a retro dirt track racer 5 speed, air-cooled, bench seat basic low cost bike... but they both do not care for the starter bike and grow a dedicated buyer for life. 7-8k dollar bike that is easy to work on and retro back to track racing look. Put a hot lady next to it. It sells it self!
Went to a Royal Enfield dealer in Ft. Worth the other day. Nicest people. I don't need another bike, but wanted to buy one just to support them.
@scoutandscooter my RE dealership that is closest to me is an Indian dealership. He was just an Indian dealer, but wanted to support the new rider with options. Why RE, did what I have been asking HD to build the last 10 years or more, to make the RE Bear, but made by HD! And they wonder why they are not doing that well. The RE today, is VW in the 60 and 70s of transportation. Friendly and inexpensive along with quality and reliable. I might just buy the Bear, rather then what I was thinking of getting a HD sportster pre 1998. Just as easy to work on, but new and inexpensive parts.
Ducati Scrambler rider here 😊
A good small displacement bike would be be a godsend for Harley. With the quality control Harley has become known for it would be a no brainer 1st bike. And if Harley sold a reasonably priced package that included the bike, gear and rider academy they would see a surge in first time riders and buyers.
First thing Harley has to do is get rid of Jochen Zeitz. He is no good.
Huh, the problem with Harley Davidson is thier lack of diversity in the motorcycle industry. I have friends I ride with that are so against anything being done other than that single pin pushrod motorcycle. The one thing I keep trying to get through to them is that The Japanese companies build bikes with training wheels. I'm 62 years old and have never owned anything from Harley Davidson. I've test rode them but always chosen a motorcycle from Japan. My last test ride was 6 years ago. After test riding a roadglide ultra ,I told the sale guy to punch the v rod engine to a 100 cu put on a shaft drive and a better air ride and that I would consider that. Well the die hard faithful in the dealership were spitting tacks over that idea. One guy asked what kinda biker would think that, I told him a motorcyclist would but a biker wouldn't. There in lies the problem with Harley Davidson. Until they realize that not everyone is interested in thier image ,
It's the Harley Rebel instead of the Honda Davidson Shadow.
Love my shadow, what's wrong with them?
@@MakisOfEquinox Not a thing, I have a 2024 Phantom in the garage, I don't get too wrapped up in things and enjoy a good play on words, so Hardly Davidson it is.
Long time Harley rider here. No, it would be a huge backlash from the all American group screaming how they going to shut down all the us plants and next year they all be made in (Fill in the foreign country of your chose) It was not that long ago, Harley offered the 500 and 750 street bikes, originally made and designed in there India plant for the Indian/European markets. But these bikes were made in Kansas city plant for the North American market so they could keep it all American made.
As I remember them, they just didn't sell very well. While they were good for India, the style was a bit odd, and not to the same level of the rest of Harley's line.
Then there is also the market saturation level of a parallel twin, basically a Triumph Bonneville wannabe.
Then there is Royal Enfield, Harley is working with them, and many of the Harley Dealers carrier RE. It would make more since to bring these two bikes made in India in with the RE name on them to avoid the whole "Not American Made" issue, and I think that is coming.
Can't fix stupid....lots of common sense
I agree completely
Imagine if they built a dual sport, smaller entry-level bikes, lower displacement versions of the pan-am
You mean like AMF did? Some of those entry level AMF bikes are still around.
Pan-Am is brutally ugly. 😂
Still waiting for HD to make a 125cc Grom fighter.
An HD mini bike would be AWESOME!!!!
Have the board and CEO been ejected yet?
Then I don't care what they sell.
The hell yeah brothers would have heart attacks. I've warmed up to the idea of a Harley made overseas. But I'd at least want it designed in America. I think Harley was on the right track with the street rod 750. That was a hell of a deal at the time. Inverted forks, dual disk, piggyback shocks. Revolution motor. And I think it was cheaper than an 883 at the time. And it was produced in America. Something like that, with the lowered cost of overseas production, would be on point. And of coarse, the hell yeah brothers hated the street rod lol
The Street Rod was the only HD I'd even consider (I usually buy standards from Japanese brands), as the Street Rod was the only reasonable modern standard offered by HD. And yet the Street Rod sold terribly despite having the lowest price, go figure. I've looked occasionally for a Street Rod but their prices go up!
I don’t think this is the answer. Harley riders didn’t buy the Street 500 and they are not buying the Nightster and sportster s.
Those are ugly ass bikes. They were specifically designed to be ugly. They are the same mistake as the Honda fury.
Make good looking bikes with those engines.
HD didn't give it time to develop a market, AND the Rebel was just much less expensive.
These are not great bikes overall… it’s basically a naked bike and if you’re looking for a naked bike there are much better & cheaper alternatives out there.
None of those bikes captured the Harley-Davidson look or appeal. 😢
But the Street 500 is popular in other countries where people are more open minded about what a Harley Davidson can be
It's unfortunate that Harley Davidson is in this position, but with government mandatory emissions and the design of these motorcycles with no ability for the owners to diagnose and repair them at home with basic tools with a few specific tools....is a contributing factor. And although it's was a bad decision to just tell older Harleys ownership your no longer welcome at our shops. I didn't do any favor for long-term supporters, but unfortunately everyone gets older....so many do ride anymore and newer generations are glued to smart phones and other digital devices. Harley Davidson has tossed history in the garage and tried to a reinventing of some cheep knock off of Harley Davidson history to attract anyone. For me I'm just so fortunate to have the ability to work on my older Harley and ride it..unless Harley Davidson realizes the future is embarrassing the past and welcoming back all Harleys to their dearlships...they are destined to be no more...
So many good points about how young people don’t see Harley’s in the same way as their ageing population, which is what Harley is doing wrong as a company, scaring away potential future customers.
The X-models are sold here in Australia, as were the Street models. You see the Street 500 everywhere and many of those owners will very likely move up to a bigger Harley, and the assumption is that Xmodel owners will do the same. Harley has to think beyond older Gen Xrs and Boomers if they are to survive, sell the lower capacity intro models, sell something like the Bronx, or Honda, Royal Enfield, Triumph and Kawasaki will take all the future potential customers.
The problem is Harley marketing. They have no idea how to market that bike to non-Harley riders. Look at the RevMax bikes. They are meant to bring in new riders, but they keep trying to sell those to Harley riders. Non Harley guys have no idea what those bikes are. I traded one in to a dealership two weeks ago and they had no idea what it was.
You got to start riders somwhere , i know in most of the westen world its illegal to ride a bike over 660cc ( prior to 2010 it was only 250cc) , and tou must ride this small bike untill you get a full licence , that takes untill about 4 years in most countries to get a full bike licence or more in Australia ( you must have a full car licence before starting the extra 4 years to a full bike licence in Australia, so your on your way to 30 years old before you can legally ride a Big Harley in Australia) . So smaller learner Harleys would get people alined to a brand . Look at Honda they sell their kids dirt bikes at a loss and lose money on them , but they gain a "Brand" customer for life because thats the bike dad got you as a kid , and dad got it because it was cheaper than it should be. Harley Davidson Australia sells 500 cc V2 Harleys that are learner legal to ride , they have made a killing on them .
Socialist countries without freedom. Bikes will be illegal in those third word nations soon
I think there must be something wrong with Harleys. When I look through ads for used bikes a high percentage are Harleys. Makes me wonder. Plus Harleys are expensive compared to Hondas and Honda is a good dependable bike.
There are a lot of nice used harleys out there that are not much more than hondas, etc. Ride one sometime, you might just like it😊
Everyone is trying to save H-D but Harley. They did try with the XG 500/750 but dropped them. Not many new riders and young people cannot live with out tech devices. Will H-D start building affordable bikes for the masses? So far no.
No way, Americans don’t want small displacement Harley’s
I'll stick with Honda
19,000 dollars with taxes and fees is to much money for an entry bike and first bike buyers when you can a bike one or two years old for half of that
The modern Harley-Davidson corporate and rider mentality refuses to accept a small, practical, attractive, low-cost beginners' model, even though the brand desperately needs one. 😂
I think it will be a hard sell to argue that a Harley is an everyday commuter bike. It's too big, too heavy, not that economical to run and way too expensive, both in retail price and maintenance. A commuter bike is a much smaller, lighter and nimbler bike, that's not that expensive to buy and maintain.
I think that the biggest problem is that sportsers don’t sell well in the USA. They couldn’t pass emissions in their current form. The same people who are saying HD needs to sell an entry level bike, will not buy a liquid cooled HD, much less a sportster.
You mean the China Davidson...there's literally already a condescending attitude towards these bikes and they haven't even been offered to us yet.
way over priced. young people don't have money. there are tons of better bikes at reasonable prices.
Harley isn't selling more bikes. their selling more expensive bikes
I’ve owned 29 motorcycles in my 64 years and I have owned exactly 2 that I bought new. I’ve owned and ridden every brand available in America and Canada, 2 have never let me down or stranded and those 2 are H-D and Yamaha. There’s 1 of each of those in my barn and if you want to ride what you really want NEVER buy new. The used bike market is flooded with great low mileage bikes and if you shop you can ride whatever you want without spending a fortune. Ride On.
Harley is becoming irrelevant. I don't recognize the company anymore. They are out of touch with consumers.
They refuse to sell it, exactly because of what you said "the sportster, the old ones that i actually used to like, not the new ones"
I have a twin cam & can admit the m8 is better. Likewise, the current sportsters are great, there a lot like dynas from the warly 2000s in many ways. The new sportsters have great engines & way better suspension. Theres really no reason to dislike them.
Yes, i also have a soft spot for the air cooled twin cam & evolution engines. Theyre cool for there simplicity, being tractor like is actually true.
The problem is, this bike would devalue the brand. They not looking to become mainstream. They make money on the expensive bikes, dealers have little mark up/wiggle room on any bike under $15k. Harley cant make as many bikes as honda, so they need to sell them for more. Harley doesnt want to become the "learner bike brand"
The CEO has stated publicly, something to the effect of, we want HD to be known as a premium motorcycle brand. So yes I think you’re right, for the American market, I think we’re going to see a trend towards more power, more farkles, more tech, and more luxury, rather than more affordability and access. They will probably flood the international market with the more affordable, low displacement options.
While I disagree with the CEOs intent, I don’t necessarily think they’re wrong. The American HD market is stuck in their ways. HD fans definitely care more about style than substance.
The sportster is butt ugly. That is it's problem. Indian doesn't have that issue with their scout line, which sells like hot cakes
the problem is that the 3k bike you mention would be offered here at 16k. Ive never seen a Harley I felt was worth more than 15 to 18.
I have some experience with these motorcycles, they are great beginner bikes but, HD couldn’t afford the warranty claims and bad customer relations.
Let's talk widgets. It used to be, we sell more widgets, "we get more money" make widgets cheap. The motivation has changed. Make less widgets, justify the price of said widget, more margin per widget, "we get more money" Less volume , more margin models have taken over the marketplace.
BTW, while no one can say (Legally right now due to NDA's) but wait until January 3rd, I think you will like what is coming.......
Tested on the bike. It’s the only thing that would come close to stopping me from getting the Ninja 650
As an incentive how about a discount towards the purchase of one of the smaller bikes upon completion of Harley’s rider program? However, a problem is that most riders need a bike that can handle short junts on an interstate to commute or even to get to where the back-roads begin. Got to have something that’ll cruise at 65 for a few miles.
Yep, had it during Riding Academy @Desert Winds HD…actually quite nice
Problem is the whole “if I want something that sounds like a weed eater I’ll get a Honda” attitude. Would be tough to get Americans over that. I think that’s the biggest hurdle is how to get the Harley community to accept that a Harley can be under 1000cc.
Harley community can't let go of the geezer glides. This would be a good bike for them to get into the younger new rider market, but Harley doesn't like to innovate or market to anyone other than the geriatrics.
lol wrong, I’ve been on Harley’s since 32. I’m on my 4th Harley. 3rd bagger. There are younger people buying Harley’s. The old people are dying out and not buying Harley’s to much anymore. I just bought a new 23 Roadglide-ST last year.
Harley needs a single with the styling cues from its 1930s models.
60 year old men aren't all dying off and not buying Harleys. In fact, those are specifically the people in America that can afford a Harley.
It is a very valid point. One Harley should consider
There's no shortage of manufacturers producing smaller displacement, very nice motorcycles. Does Harley want to put a machine into the market that would be another choice among many? You don't see Ferrari or Porsche making a car to compete with the Corolla. It's just not their space. Harley is currently a very aspirational brand which has a place in the market that I'm sure is envied by most other manufacturers. They should focus on what they do best.
Completely agree. Missed opportunity, especially in this economy.
New riders ONLY care that it says "Harley Davidson" on the side. They don't care that the bikes suck
They should introduce a PanAm 975 price tag $12,499
Sportster Classic price tag $10,499
X500 price tag $9,499
X350 price tag $6,499
PanAm I think is self explained
Sportster Classic based off the iron 883 engine
The X-series bikes are good, but should be sold under the "standard" harley premium... because it needs to attract not only new generation and newer riders, but should be such a value that "some" not all classical harley riders will at least take a look at it, be shocked that the bike is good, don't buy BUT will speak good on the bikes behalf and endorse it.
We used the X350 bike in the Riders Academy at HD the dealership… I absolutely hated this bike... Herky jerky throttle, felt extremely cramped on it… and overall not a very comfortable bike to ride. At the end of the course I was more than ready to get off of the X350.
People always say it's not Harley if it's not made in the USA smh
The KTM Duke and RC 390 are made in India, and those two bikes are some of KTM’s best selling street bikes in North America. I think it would be extremely smart for HD to sell those bikes here in the US.
no I completely disagree here. I have a buddy that works at a Harley dealer as one of the instructors for the beginner course and I wanted to try it out because he stated that they just received those new bikes and those bike are meant for a completely different market because I have tried multiple bike and by far that one is the most uncomfortable bike I have ever been on. For the people agreeing I would say go to your local Harley dealer that provides classes and ask if you can sit on one just to try out. I have tried sports bikes, cruisers and dirt bike trust me when I say that one shouldn't be sold here in the US. My opinion!
With all respect to Hegshot I completely understand his opinion but disagree completely. All Harley Davidson would be doing is filling their showrooms and service departments with a bunch of people who aren’t committed to the product line but came for the special offer and appearance of owning something upscale. I previously worked as a technician at a multi line European new car dealership. One of the makes we sold was Jaguar. I remember when Jaguar did something simians introduced the X-Type, a small compact car that they could sell for 1/3rd the price. No rich business person, celebrity or local professional sports star wanted to be around this trash and we lost sales. They didn’t want to drive a brand of vehicle that was no longer exclusive. Those new folks never were able to afford the classic vehicles we sold or the new high tech ones coming out to market. All they wound up doing was to turn our high end luxury decorated service waiting area and showroom into a 3 ring circus. The sales dewars jubilant when that cheap model was quickly discontinued.
They Basically need to fix the Reliability … 🤣🤣🤣
My Harley dealer has a fleet of these small bikes for their rider courses.
I paid 4K for my RE Hunter 350, why would I pay 10 grand for a Harley the same size.
Harley-Davidson is doomed for failure until they start at the top. Return all manufacturing to the US of A. Then replace the CEO with a Harley riding Individual who loves American Values. Then fire EVERYONE on the board ( there are no exceptions ) and replace them with like minded persons that share the same values, Harley riding Individuals who loves American Values. Until then, nothing good will come out of this brand other than complete failure.
I agree Harley is missing out price sells not everyone can afford a Harley
Harley-Davidson already has an “entry level” bike, it’s the very Iron 883 you mentioned. Harley-Davidson doesn’t want to further cannibalize their product line with another entry level bike. The Touring models are and will remain the focus of the Motor Company.
Iron 883 is not sold new anymore.
It’s also not as good for beginners due to the relatively large displacement compared to other offerings on the market. There’s a lot of people who want to start on under 500cc’s and less than 7K out the door.
All they have to do is import the x 440 at a reasonable price. The 350 and 500 are too expensive compared to other brands in the British style. RE is killing Harley with new riders, it is the economy as Bill Clinton run on.
I've been riding motorcycles for all my life. I could not afford my first hardly until it was 50.
I am torn on this conversation. We want people to aspire to Harley-Davidson. But we want the younger folks too. I just want the brand to succeed.
Royal Enfield seems to be doing just fine making 350 cc to 650 cc bikes that are inexpensive, reliable, and apparently quite fun to ride. I don't know if Harley could really compete in that market here in the US, but it doesn't look like they even want to try to here.
If they do want to compete in it, Harley dealers had damned well better get off of their high horses and start treating customers like actual CUSTOMERS. Their arrogance is a real turn off for me. I'll not be trading my 2012 FLHXSE3 CVO Street Glide on any new Harley any time soon - if ever - the way things are now..
Everyone says that but no one buys them...
Harley would probably double the price to sell here! They put the screws to their US market everyday!
Harley shot themselves in the foot with their pandemic response and will never recover
Why would anyone want to buy a Chinese motorcycle with a Harley Davidson sticker slapped on it?
They're democrats, that's why
Further, Harley-Davidson is a luxury brand, and many of the Harley-Davidson faithful refuse to accept this. This brand/bikes are not meant to be sold in mass volume across the lower price spectrum of motorcycles.
And that's why they'll continue the descent into closing their doors.
It's the only Harley I would ride currently.
HD is just a meme now
i'm someone who started out on honda motorcycles. i use to laugh at everyone riding a harley.
why? several reasons, the amf era, the cost, and lack of reliability. why ride a constant repair bike,
when you could buy honda, and just ride with a lot less issues.
i now ride a harley, my 3rd. i dont, and wont buy new, i buy used. this hd has been as reliable as any honda i've owned.
cost wise i could buy a new honda for $10 / 11k, or i could buy this hd for $13k.
hd has a real draw from other riders, not something i experienced on any of my hondas.
Honda has the market on these types of bikes. Just stick to what you know HD.
People think harleys sales are hurting because theyve gone "woke". The truth is, harleys sales last quarter was up a few percentage points.
For the last 9 years, ive test rode every model on demo rides. The truth is, harley is more performance oriented now, then ever before. Certain models have brembo & ohlins now. Suspension & refinement has improved drastically, starting when the m8 was released. Its been getting better every year.
Harley would sell the hell out of the x350ra and the 500
What the heck is Video Cycle House - saw you on that channel while YouTubing on my tv went to find Hegshot on my phone to give video a like and couldn’t find it. Weird.
I'm done with Harley so It doesn't matter what they do. And that's coming from a life long owner of over 11 Harley's. 13 if you count the ones my wife owned. I no longer own one. The wife still owns one but in the spring that's about to change.
I'm sure that motorcycle is made in India. However the Triumph 400 series is made in India, BMW 310 series is made in India. All under the QC of those companies but all made in India.
The Bronx resonable pricedand offered in three different styles would do it.
Honda has had great success with the modern cb 500s
Affordable and good looking bikes offered in three different styles.
I’d buy one but they’re not available here.
I don’t think it’s a problem with the motorcycle prices but a problem with the younger generation for the older guys we where out chasing women and going to work and partying now they don’t even think about getting a drivers license until they 20-25 years old and do we really want someone that is not sure what a man or a woman is on a motorcycle. We are going to loose a lot of things that we love because the younger generation is not ready or able to handle and support theses companies
Nobody is going to buy this bike. They need to bring back an evo sportster for under 10 grand.
Ill never be able to afford a new HD... i cant even afford a used Harley... id love to buy one of those $3k harleys... but if they wont sell it here, ill have to go for the Ice Bear....
Harley Davidson already tried this with the Street 500 and 750's several years ago. People didn't want a budget Harley Davidson made outside of the US. Why would these bikes be any different? Maybe perception of the potential buyers changed? I don't think so especially now as there would be too much internet negativity that new people would see and just get a Honda. Maybe if the motorcycles were made in America it could have something different, some unique appeal. I don't like how the RevMax engine line is going to foreign manufacture. That's kind of a big draw of HD. I'm of the small subset of non HD riders that would buy the new Revmax motorcycles like the Bronx. I can always get 30 years worth of classic HD cruisers (I currently have an 04 Sportster Roadster) but there's just nothing compelling for me to buy a new HD.
I really thought the More Roads to Harley Davidson was a good idea for desensitizing the masses to other Harley Davidson options and get them used to seeing HD as a full line manufacturer and THEN they might be able to introduce a smaller more budget friendly motorcycle. It's just too different and big of a jump right now to go from budget and learner bike to $15,000 700 pound classic motorcycle. if they were actually good motorcycles like the Pan America and Sportster S/Nighter are. New line HD's while also keeping the HD Classic line. It doesn't have to be "Replace the old with the new" Keep both. Win win for everyone (except for budget motorcycles... for now :-))
Seems to me that a company that embraced DEI would want to sell motorcycles to everybody. But wait, let's exclude those who can't afford to buy our multi tens of thousand dollar bikes in this country. Hypocrisy at its finest, eh?
Buy a Honda.
WTF eh 🇨🇦🥁🥁🥁
“Are they going to pass that savings on to you and me, absolutely not.” You sound like you think they’re going to be making money. They won’t. The space for smaller bikes is extremely crowded and they will be hard-pressed to compete with the rest of the world. They are not going to get the brand premium they get on their larger motorcycles. They won’t have any choice but to pass on the savings in order to compete on price.
I was looking for my first bike, I wanted a harley but I ended up with a triumph (scrambler 400x) a entry bike manufacture by Bajaj. The harley was too heavy and expensive to be my first bike. Harley don’t offer those cheaper bikes in Brasil, here Honda and Yamaha are the biggest manufacturers.
I think harley is sleeping on selling cheap bikes.
I was in the market for a sportster or a nightster last year. I was immediately turned off by the "half-assed" asthetic of those bikes. The right side looks good. The left side looks unfinished, naked, and just plain ugly. It's the tale of two bikes when walking around it. It really turned me off. Their design quality is dipping severely. Don't get me started on the political issues. That's not what this is about. I'm in the market for a Triumph now it looks like. HD is but an afterthought with me.
I think they dont want to dilute the brand in america where they are a muxh loved luxury domestic brand. The marketing nerd in me would love to see the market research on this. However, triumph have very successfully managed to tread that line here in the UK.
Incidentally the triumph 400's look better than this particular Harley and come in cheaper overseas.
Having said all that i do believe that the learner bike market segment is massive and harley should try to compete in it. A new model of this 500 should be something they are considering for worldwide release
Harley did make smaller bikes and sold them in the US, nobody bought them. They sucked and were to expensive.
I was about to disagree and point out that HD sold thousands of them. Then I realized that I’m old, you’re not talking about the small 2 stroke bikes HD sold in the 60s and 70s, and that my pre-AMF memories of HD really aren’t relevant anymore!
As someone who just got into bike 3 years ago, i started on a shadow that i got for a good price, turned it into a bagger, seat, etc
And then got a newer heritage gifted to me by a family friend, even at the price of free i gotta be honest i would rather a Honda with some more power over the Harley. Looking at 1st Gen Valkries.
Everything they make is just overpriced and under built. The handling is pretty bad on the heritage, the boomer saddle bags and seat with studs and tittie tassles are the most 🌈 people 🌈 things I've ever seen. The Harley logo over everything ruins an otherwise beautiful paint job and the sound is unbearably annoying from the V&H pipes the guy put on there.
Younger people are just a lot less likely to have admiration for a brand that prides itself on being an annoying sack of crap for better or for worse.
Well said brother new sub ! Hello from Saskatchewan eh
Thanks man and welcome to the channel