The third firing pin hole kinda makes sense when you think about the internal geometry of the firing pin. If the firing pin assembly has two firing pins on it at a 90° angle from each other you could get away with only rotating the assembly by 90° rather than a full 180°. To make this work however you would need somewhere for the unused firing pin to go when the hammer hits the striker assembly, hence the third hole. When the top barrel fires the firing pin for the bottom barrel comes out through the third hole, and vice versa when the bottom barrel fires.
Sidney Poitier's character in the movie/western Buck and the Preacher(1972) carried a pair of these in the movie that he wore like six shooters, but they were depicted as scatter guns.
@SUPRA For when you need to put a hole in everything in front of you for the next 100 meters, and aren't really planning on using your shooting hand ever again.
I had a friend who was an ACW re-enactor (in the UK). He was sold, at a gun show, what the vendor described as a wog musket because it appeared to be a smoothbore. He paid very little for it and did not tell the vendor that the makers name, Lancaster, meant it was a high end oval bore rifle worth a hell of a lot more than he paid. It was in .577 calibre.
I am utterly amazed at the craftsmanship of guns about 100-114 years old! Absolutely incredible! They look cool, and are seemingly incredibly reliable weapons. I want one.
Funnily enough, a fine cased, gilt plated, ivory handled Lancaster pistol featured in an episode of "The Antiques Roadshow" I watched yesterday. The resident firearms expert, Bill Harriman, declared it the finest firearm he had ever seen on the show. Value? £20,000.
@@coaxill4059 £20k is about $27k and that's a lot of money for a gun where most of what we get are double barrelled shotguns and .22 bolt actions. guns that expensive are (almost) always collector's items.
One of the most lovely pieces I've ever seen. The way the trigger and firing mechanism works in combination with the manual set trigger is just astonishing!
Been playing Battlefield 1 lately and these pistols caught my attention, so I had to look them up to see how they work haha And this is actually a really good video, super interesting to watch!
Yep. It's pretty obvious that if there had only been a single firing pin, and the mechanism had to rotate it through 180 degrees, the trigger pull would have had to be longer and/or heavier. Using a two pin firing pin that only has to pivot 90 degrees made the trigger pull shorter, and perhaps even lighter.
"3rd Battalion, the Prince of Wales'* Own (West Yorkshire . Regiment), Captain J. Straker is granted the honorary rank of Major. Dated 16th March, 1901." It's so cool when you can find a weapon with some pesonal link.
I researched the Regiment a little and it seems likely that Captain Straker served in the Third Volunteer Battalion of the Regiment [the Prince of Wales Own West Yorkshire Regiment only had two active regular battalions in this time period, but three Volunteer Battalions, which became Territorial Battalions after 1908], which sent its Service Company to the Second Boer War in 1900. This could be a present from the Battalion to Captain Straker either on his return home from or on his way to South Africa.
simonferrer I found another Capt. J. Straker of the 3rd West Indies Reg...in 1846. A relative maybe? I believe in 1846 comissions were still bought, which meant that the family must have had some money, and maybe there was a legacy involved? ...wow...all this from one pistol.
Conor Hanley On further thought you're probably right, unless it was an heirloom like the other gentleman suggested, perhaps passed down from a relative who had previously served in the same regiment? I'm thinking something not necessarily meant to be used, but more like a luck token ("your grandfather carried this pistol at Sevastopol, and he would've wanted you to have it," that sort of thing).
From the London Gazette dated January 8, 1892: 3rd Battalion, the Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) Captain J. Straker resigns the appointment of Instructor of Musketry. Dated 9th January, 1892.
Before this, the only howdah pistols i had heard of were like sxs short pistol grip shotguns, mostly in the "bore" cartridges. Their main purpose was to shoot tigers off of your elephant when hunting. I guess tiger attacks were common. The "howdah" is the big basket affair atop the elephant, which carries the hunter and his assistants. Nice to see these as an alternative. Lots of interesting things were made in the late black powder era. Makes sense that officers would have used them, since they had to provide their own anyway. Great video as always. Now we see that the 4 barrel concept a la the COP is nothing new.
I had an old coffee table gun book with some of Lancaster's pistols in it. I always thought they were very interesting. Every time I have seen them in print, the oval bores were mentioned but the concept was never explained. Thank you for explaining the idea behind it.
Beautifully engineered and the fit and finish is remarkable. If it says "handmade in England" and produced in the late 19th century, it's pretty certainly a work of engineering art like these. The mechanics with the extractors and especially those squeeze and touch set triggers are amazing. Nice stuff!
just looking at that trigger design and function, the creativity and skills it took to just come up with it, and make it with the tools from back then is pretty darn impressive.
It's okay, it's central London, hang around after dark you can still buy almost anything. Although if you want large scale orders, tanks or aircraft for murdering masses of civilians you can just ask our government and they will sell it to you no problems.
Consider me incredibly impressed. I initially didn't think much of them from the distance shots, but eventually saw there was something ahead of its time going on from that largest one's grip. And it just got better and better from there.
Battlefield 1 brought me here. It's good that a game can spark interest in the actual history of the weapons used in the game. The game is a steam punk version of WW1. Were Howdah pistols used a lot in WW1 ?
Forgotten Weapons the game says some officers used it as a sidedarm in ww1. do you happen to know how long was it before an oficer's sidearm was standarised and they could no longer choose what to take with them?
After watching quite a few of your videos on various subjects, I have to say...for someone so young, your a very good speaker on the subject. Concise, without glitches and lapses, always on target without prompts or notes. Probably the best 'teacher' about guns I have seen on the internet. Extremely well done. Thanks for your efforts Mr. Ian. Ok, back to me learning about ..forgotten guns.
Brit checking in here, if you think the 577 Lancaster pistol is a monster check out Thomas Bland's patent Slug throwing pistols. In the late 19th century we were fighting against the dervishes and some officers complained that they're issue revolvers were not powerful enough for an instant kill and quoted instances where although mortaly wounded the tribesman had managed to kill the officer in a few cases, I think the service revolver at the time was the .450 Adams, into the breach stepped the famous London gun maker Thomas Bland, the slug throwing pistols were double barreled side by side configuration and the bores were very large, a friend of mine owned one in 650 caliber an absolute monster, I believe that anybody struck by those projectiles would not get back up, best regards from South Yorkshire England
I think the last one is the most desirable of the bunch. Comes with case, accessories and a couple of rounds, that external extractor is really cool, and last but not least when you have strong recoil you'd like the barrels to be centered on the gun.
These guns were used alot in the 19th century Colonial wars in African. One has a prominent role in the movie 'The Ghost and the Darkness' (1996), which is about some big game hunters in Africa in the 1890's. The large bore bullets of the gun had tremendous stopping power as they had enough force to pierce flesh but not enough to go all the way thorough - often resulting in shattered bones and lodged bullets.
Thank you for showing these. I am reading a historical novel in which someone is using a 4 barrelled pistol. I had trouble imaging how it looks and works, so your video has helped. Thank you.
Someone may have thought of this before, but the third firing pin hole may actually just be for a set of two pins to allow it to only rotate a quarter turn instead of a full 180º around.
So I think that the third firing pin hole is to allow the rotating striker mechanism to only have to make a quarter rotation instead of a half rotation each cycle. The striker has two pins, located 90 degree off from one another, and when cycled, it rotates a quarter turn down, and then it rotates a quarter turn up on the second cycle. So the third hole is to keep the second firing pin from wearing out against a plate, serving as an intermediary hole.
I actually have a theory on what that extra firing pin hole on the .577 is for. There's two pins in that gun, instead of the one pin that the other examples use. The other models rotate the pin 90 degrees with each trigger pull, which works perfectly for the 4-barrel variety. 90*4 = 360. The two-barrel version, if it was using the single firing pin, would either have to rotate the pin 180 degrees with each trigger pull, or make the pin move straight up and down, which may have required a fairly substantial reworking of the internals. Instead of that, it uses two pins placed 90 degrees from eachother, so that the mechanism only has to rotate 90 degrees with each pull. The two pins seem to be moving in tandem with eachother, which suggests to me that they are linked. Since there's two pins operated with each pull of the trigger, the first pin would go through the hole, but the second one would impact on the inside face of the gun, keeping the first one from hitting the cartridge. In order to allow the pins to move far enough, a second hole was needed for the other firing pin. With that hole in place, the two firing pins move forward fully, with one impacting the cartridge, and the other impacting harmlessly on the solid part of the barrel assembly (if that's the right term for it)
+TheRealAmusableBman I suppose that after firing the upper barrel, the firing pin assembly rotates 90 deg. to fire the lower barrel, and then the mechanism is reset when the pistol is opened to reload... after which the upper barrel again fires first.
Great review! I have been a .gun collector, student, fancier all my life and only dreamed of ever seeing the Lancaster pistols. They were well built and gave the holder a great feeling of confidence. Thank you for this geat review.
Love all the remarkable weapons that come out of this time era, it was certainly a period of innovation and learning in regards especially to firearms.
I think the period between the US civil war and WW1 was arguably the greatest era of firearm development we have seen and are likely to see. Unless another J. M. Browning turns up.
OH MY GOD THE HAIR! Ian you look like a Viking! Anyway, this is a great example of Forgotten Weapons teaching me about a forgotten corner of history I was never aware of. I'd heard of howdah pistols before, but I had only heard of exposed hammer cap and ball pistols with single or double barrels in very large calibers. I had no idea they were available in centerfire and up to four barrels, or that they were used as military sidearms instead of just hunting sidearms.
Thank you so much for showing these great examples of Victorian firepower. Imagine the stopping power of a .577 with no gas leak. Supposedly, these were favored by tiger hunters for those times when the tiger might attack the elephant the hunters were riding on. ...and how would you like to do a two gun challenge with one of these and a Martini-Henry?
thats insane how perfect condition the inside and mechanics of that first gun especially like 300 years later, looks absolutely brand new, moves as smooth as butter thats unbelievable quality& craftsmanship
the 3rd firing pin on the 2 barrel .577 model: it bears on the extractor plate. lock the plate, the old spun copper "cartouches" are restrained. the system to extract is the same as the double stacks (4 bbl.). the pressure of ignition is resisted by the cruciform mortise (which restrains the cruciform extractor). with only the single "right side" stack, on the starboard side, you have the mortise. on the port, only good intentions and the extractor rod. the "firing pin" acts like a smith and wesson front crane lock. the small tool steel pin thrusting on the beefy left cheek of the breech increases resistance to "balloon bulge" exponentially. it looks very much like it is also the location of the pilot drilling for the staked striker pivot axis on the 4 barrel models, so the exact same jigs with "massaged" tooling could probably do the job (ALWAYS a plus, even if the product is essentially "hand fabricated to order"). pretty damned elegant solution, especially for the period, in what was basically an "artisanal job shop" churning out staid tools of empire, lol
lol, just rewatched, the first shot of the double breech. look in the corresponding spot on the face of the extractor. drilled hole. mystery of the 3rd "firing pin" solved by none other than yours truly. please, laud with beer as opposed to laurels, roflmao
I've come back to this video several times since I first watched it several years ago. These things are just awesome. I will have one one day, even if I have to make it myself!
I know what that extra pin hole is for! The gun has two firing pins, and it rotates 90 degrees back and forth to fire both barrels, that means that either the top pin (when firing the bottom) or the bottom (when firing the top) would be off to the side. Otherwise, you'd have to use one firing pin, that rotated a whole 180 degrees, which might have been wider. I suspect he did this so as to allow himself to use a similar mechanism as the four barrel models. I could be completely wrong, but just looking at the problem of getting two big barrels to fire, that's how I would have done it.
***** It's not too hard to make something that toggles back and forth, it's just easier to make that toggle 90 degrees and not a full 180. It's vuagely similar to what's done in some over-under shotguns and two-barreled derringers.
i feel I'm the only person taking note of this, but with my intellectual brain (not really) and my sharp wits (not really) i have deduced that you are not a guns enthusiast you are a viking! look at him! hair, beard,intellect...dudes a viking! but on a serious note. thank you so much for making this channel and making the content you do. i wish i could do what you do as i love firearms and i love history and the items people make through time and the significance they have. its amazing to see all of these firearms and accessories used to make things possible and i hope you continue doing this for year to come. thank you again
That second firing pin on the last gun, the .577; it's an extra locking pin for the breach when you pull the trigger. I bet he designed it that way for a seperate patent claim considering the 'variable rate oval rifling' on the other model.
Im fairly confident the third hole on the breech is so the "firing pins" only have to rotate 90 degrees instead on 180. the extra hole allows the firing pin not being used a place to go.
jake richard you are likely correct. I suspect that either your reasoning, or to keep wear on the firing pin to a minimum by having a separate pin per barrel. Even with the large caliber though, I suspect wear would be minimal.
That 3rd firing pin hole is required because there are two firing pins on the rotating block. The hole on the breech plate matches up with a hole in the firing pin plate and that gives the 2nd pin somewhere to go once the plate rotates 90 degrees to fire the 2nd barrel. Fascinating gun!
I'd think just by looking at it that the 3 pin arrangement on the double barreled model is for reduction of mechanical energy needed. If the design just used top and bottom 2 holes, it'd have to make a 180 degree rotation per pull, whereas the 3 holed system only needs a 90 degree rotation for back and forth. Seeing how the 4 barreled models sport 90 degree rotation as well, it may be an attempt to stick to a more similar or minimalist design as the 4 barreled units as far as rotation needed to cycle.
Wow what incredibly smooth and elegant works of art. Have to agree with you on the .476 being my favorite too and that double set trigger would make the motions of firing so much more enjoyable. Thanks for all your work!
I am not going to lie, it is really awesome that Rock Island lets you come and record these. And these pistols are sweet to look at. I would like to know more about the oval barrels.
The reproduction Howdah i have is .577 (in which i use .58 miniball or .575 patched roundball), 25-30gr FFg black powder*, made by Pedersoli in Italy. It is the SxS rifled version of which there are several variations - 2 x 20ga smooth, .50 x 20ga, .50 x .50, etc. Sadly, the "engraving," though detailed, looks to be rolled. It is also nicely checkered. The packaging also contains an almost identical "howdah and tiger" origin story. Oddly, one of the first videos i watched on YT was of a field of shoulder high grass in India, a driver on an elephant, and a tiger just launching from cover onto both ! ! ! The driver was armed with nothing but a stick yet managed to beat the tiger off with only minor lacerations - absolutely incredible. *this would be a target practice load; it's capable of twice that. There's also a removable shoulder stock that adds lots to accuracy and recoil management.
@Pierre LeDouche The size , many of those pistols were in some big cartridges , 2 barrels were enough weight .. 12 bore pistol with 4 barrels , just beat the Tiger to death with it ..
The 2 shot .577 is awesome and I thank imbored742 down below for his genius. The third firing pin reduces the trigger travel and weight. This is an excellent model for a remake in a modern big bore pistol cartridge. My two cents on this is that the firing pins should be fixed in the breach wall and the rotating striker have lugs on the head. This will drastically reduce the precision machining and fitting required to align the firing pins with the holes as the striker rotates.
Amazing! Clean machine work. Looks solid af. I especially like the sharpness of the auto-extractor. Look how flush it is when it returns. Set trigger is a cool feature too.
Charles Lancaster was one of England's top gun makers. The firm competed directly with Purdey, Alex Henry, Holland, and the other "Best" gunmakers. Lancaster's history of innovation and absolute A+ quality are well documented.
Hello Ian, I believe the third firing pin hole is there to allow the two firing pins to travel in unison. As appears to be the case @ 12:13 in the video, the firing pins are rotated back and forth through 90 degrees of motion and so the non-firing pin is allowed to travel unimpeded through the third hole in the breech block and into the relief on the breech face while the active firing pin is aligned with its respective barrel.
Nice to see that DICE 100% represented the customization of these weapons in Battlefield 1 (You can only change the zoom, which isn't even possible with iton sights)
this is best used as a fast TTK side arm in BF1 sort of like a primary instead of a pistol finisher. Its best used for one kill or two it can be spammed fast and has great hip fire so its use is to take people out faster then your primary
_ Rodos _ well it already has faster TTK then automatico it can only be beaten by shotgun 1 frame. Your right and there is a version with more barrels. but with this gun only balance i can see from less barrels is faster reload and it would have to be significant considering 2 shots eliminates it from effective hipfire and also means it cant kill past 10M or so. You have to remember that this gun is already a variant of the bulldog, the bulldog is a long reload six barrel howdah. Bulldog niche is nearly ensuring you win every 1V1 as you can spam hipfire and should take enemy out, its more forgiving then howdah. Obviously bulldog isnt suited for actual aggressive play and is better paired with a less aggressive playstyle. The howdah is best of both worlds, it lets you have fastest bullet TTK whilst reloading fast enough it can be used aggressively. In my example i said use it with heilregal as you wont be needing to pistol switch much so instead use it when your about to get rushed by automatico so you never have achance of getting outgunned from TTK. WIthin 10M or clutch moment >Howdah after that range heilregal.
_ Rodos _ its a troll weapon the kolibri same with LV10 medic gun and arguably LV 10 support gun. You cant give Howdaw more barrels unless you cut the 2 hit kill range dramatically. As much as i currently dislike BF1 it has some great class balance or rather variety thats useful compared to BF4. The G18 in BF1 was the only gun worth using as sidearm because they nerfed the OHK of the magnum, so instead of a mix of sidearms being used there is only one. I personally dont care about realisim, i am q huge BF fan but dont care for realisim and as you said "why not". Think about this, if you gave howdaw an extra 2 shots or halved its reload time it would be insanely OP because no reason to use any other handgun. More barrels and way bigger hip fire is balanceable since it would be ess useful at its role. Balance is important, look how hardcore is broken in BF4, the scar H and bulldog are the only guns anyone should use.
First: I think the intent of the third firing pin hole on the 2 Barrel .577, is that he could use a 2 pin plate, that only has to rotate 45 degrees, vs rotating 90 degrees. If it was 90 degrees of travel, the trigger would have to have an exceptionally heavy pull for the mechanical advantage, or it would have an unusably long pull. Second: If any viewers buy one of these, could you....possibly furnish Ian with it for a test period, that may include a 2 gun action match? Please? :D
I would like to have a Howdah for my Africa collection some day. The .577 is beautiful, what a piece of pure power. I will have to stick with my Sniders guns for now considering the price of these things!
+Kevin Sullivan ^^^ What he said. This is a defensive handgun, for 2-legged and 4-legged attackers. Most target shooting pistols of this time period seem to be of the underpowered "parlor" type.. Guns that you would actually shoot inside your home with friends.
For a little historical 'backgground.' A Howdah is the platform on the back of an elephant where the rich people ride. Poor people walk and carry the rich guys stuff. If you were attacked by a tiger you needed something a little easier to use than a rifle the size of a cannon. Check out Ian's video on the 4-bore rifles.
this has probably been said but I believe the third hold on the largest 2 barrel handgun is because the rotating firing pin block has 2 separate pins. it would make it so that the rotating mechanism would have to rotate a shorter distance. basically just a hole that exists so that the second pin is not being rimmed against metal.
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"The bores are smooth but yet they are also rifled."
That sentence is like a Zen riddle for firearms enthusiasts.
+MMO-Grind3r yay howdah pistols !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
a cannon koan lol my granddad would love that
Very true. 😆😆😆😆
0
I got it but I already had heard of this style of rifling before. I can see where it might leave some scratching their heads at first though.
The third firing pin hole kinda makes sense when you think about the internal geometry of the firing pin. If the firing pin assembly has two firing pins on it at a 90° angle from each other you could get away with only rotating the assembly by 90° rather than a full 180°. To make this work however you would need somewhere for the unused firing pin to go when the hammer hits the striker assembly, hence the third hole. When the top barrel fires the firing pin for the bottom barrel comes out through the third hole, and vice versa when the bottom barrel fires.
Hey, I think you are correct. That 3rd firing is actually just the top and bottom one when not being used.
so instead of going around in a circle, it just goes up and down?
wiill will It would just rotate 90 degrees back and forth.
thats what I meant. If it went in a complete circle, then it would need a forth hole.
Makes sense! I reached the same conclusion...
That .577 is absolutely stunning! Beautiful piece of British History
I completely agree
Neil Mckay Well do I have a treat for you. They used to make Bulldog revolvers in .577. Imagine that as a carry piece.
Question? .577 is from Snider?
One of the bad guys in the book "The Sixth Extinction", by James Rollins uses a .577 howdah pistol.
Ya just a real shame they shit on that history and beat guns out of their culture.
.577 Lancaster
Because what any fine officer needs is a hand-held field gun.
Because using more than 1 round is wasteful
Sidney Poitier's character in the movie/western Buck and the Preacher(1972) carried a pair of these in the movie that he wore like six shooters, but they were depicted as scatter guns.
Colt:.45 has plenty stopping power
Lancaster: yeah but what if demons invade the earth or insurgency threatens the crown what then.
I don't _call_ the artillery, I AM THE ARTILLERY. /Captain Straker, probably./
Howda guns where designed for the guys riding on elephants to STOP a big cat
We need some modern reproductions of these asap. Sure a derringer is nice, but these have a certain look to them that make them more desirable.
A two-tube model in 50BMG might be interesting.
@@stephenarling1667
Too big.
The good ol' .44 Magnum would be a better choice.
And a .45 ACP version for the more limp-wristed.
@SUPRA For when you need to put a hole in everything in front of you for the next 100 meters, and aren't really planning on using your shooting hand ever again.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong .950 jdj. For when you don't mind deleting your wrist every time you fire.
There is the C.O.P 357
I had a friend who was an ACW re-enactor (in the UK). He was sold, at a gun show, what the vendor described as a wog musket because it appeared to be a smoothbore. He paid very little for it and did not tell the vendor that the makers name, Lancaster, meant it was a high end oval bore rifle worth a hell of a lot more than he paid. It was in .577 calibre.
Would Like to see Ian do an episode with that gun.
I am utterly amazed at the craftsmanship of guns about 100-114 years old! Absolutely incredible! They look cool, and are seemingly incredibly reliable weapons. I want one.
Funnily enough, a fine cased, gilt plated, ivory handled Lancaster pistol featured in an episode of "The Antiques Roadshow" I watched yesterday. The resident firearms expert, Bill Harriman, declared it the finest firearm he had ever seen on the show. Value? £20,000.
Is that high or low? Here in the US that's about the price for a civilian legal full auto AK47.
@@coaxill4059 £20k is about $27k and that's a lot of money for a gun where most of what we get are double barrelled shotguns and .22 bolt actions. guns that expensive are (almost) always collector's items.
One of the most lovely pieces I've ever seen. The way the trigger and firing mechanism works in combination with the manual set trigger is just astonishing!
Been playing Battlefield 1 lately and these pistols caught my attention, so I had to look them up to see how they work haha
And this is actually a really good video, super interesting to watch!
So is the one your grandma made where she’s peeing in a mason jar and then poured it all over her old flaps.
The overall fit of these guns is phenomenal! A testament to the skill & attention to detail of Mr. Lancaster
The third hole is because the turning pin mechanism has two pins. It doesn't rotate all around, it turns clockwise then counterclockwise.
Yep. It's pretty obvious that if there had only been a single firing pin, and the mechanism had to rotate it through 180 degrees, the trigger pull would have had to be longer and/or heavier. Using a two pin firing pin that only has to pivot 90 degrees made the trigger pull shorter, and perhaps even lighter.
"3rd Battalion, the Prince of Wales'* Own (West
Yorkshire . Regiment), Captain J. Straker is
granted the honorary rank of Major. Dated
16th March, 1901."
It's so cool when you can find a weapon with some pesonal link.
Good find, I was thinking Welsh or Wessex Yeomanry or something.
I researched the Regiment a little and it seems likely that Captain Straker served in the Third Volunteer Battalion of the Regiment [the Prince of Wales Own West Yorkshire Regiment only had two active regular battalions in this time period, but three Volunteer Battalions, which became Territorial Battalions after 1908], which sent its Service Company to the Second Boer War in 1900. This could be a present from the Battalion to Captain Straker either on his return home from or on his way to South Africa.
simonferrer I found another Capt. J. Straker of the 3rd West Indies Reg...in 1846. A relative maybe? I believe in 1846 comissions were still bought, which meant that the family must have had some money, and maybe there was a legacy involved?
...wow...all this from one pistol.
Conor Hanley On further thought you're probably right, unless it was an heirloom like the other gentleman suggested, perhaps passed down from a relative who had previously served in the same regiment? I'm thinking something not necessarily meant to be used, but more like a luck token ("your grandfather carried this pistol at Sevastopol, and he would've wanted you to have it," that sort of thing).
From the London Gazette dated January 8, 1892:
3rd Battalion, the Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) Captain J. Straker resigns the appointment of Instructor of Musketry. Dated 9th January, 1892.
There's something about guns like this that are just so cool to me. The extremely simple yet elegant and clever
Before this, the only howdah pistols i had heard of were like sxs short pistol grip shotguns, mostly in the "bore" cartridges. Their main purpose was to shoot tigers off of your elephant when hunting. I guess tiger attacks were common. The "howdah" is the big basket affair atop the elephant, which carries the hunter and his assistants. Nice to see these as an alternative. Lots of interesting things were made in the late black powder era. Makes sense that officers would have used them, since they had to provide their own anyway. Great video as always. Now we see that the 4 barrel concept a la the COP is nothing new.
I had an old coffee table gun book with some of Lancaster's pistols in it. I always thought they were very interesting. Every time I have seen them in print, the oval bores were mentioned but the concept was never explained. Thank you for explaining the idea behind it.
I’ve seen most videos on this channel, this is my favorite forgotten weapon of them all so far. Genius engineering without over-engineering.
Beautifully engineered and the fit and finish is remarkable. If it says "handmade in England" and produced in the late 19th century, it's pretty certainly a work of engineering art like these. The mechanics with the extractors and especially those squeeze and touch set triggers are amazing. Nice stuff!
just looking at that trigger design and function, the creativity and skills it took to just come up with it, and make it with the tools from back then is pretty darn impressive.
1 New Bond St, London is now a Ralph Lauren shop. Kinda disappointing.
Awww man. That's how dead the firearms industry in the UK is.
I looked that up too haha
Ya, that gun ban really worked out well didn't it. 😤😤😤😤
It's okay, it's central London, hang around after dark you can still buy almost anything. Although if you want large scale orders, tanks or aircraft for murdering masses of civilians you can just ask our government and they will sell it to you no problems.
@@stykytte pretty much
Consider me incredibly impressed. I initially didn't think much of them from the distance shots, but eventually saw there was something ahead of its time going on from that largest one's grip. And it just got better and better from there.
These built by top level skilled gunsmith from the royal gunmakers guild , best in the world at the time and possibly still the best .
Battlefield 1 brought me here. It's good that a game can spark interest in the actual history of the weapons used in the game. The game is a steam punk version of WW1. Were Howdah pistols used a lot in WW1 ?
No, they were basically not used at all in WWI.
Ok, thank you.
Forgotten Weapons the game says some officers used it as a sidedarm in ww1. do you happen to know how long was it before an oficer's sidearm was standarised and they could no longer choose what to take with them?
They were used by officers who wanted a bigger punch, or assault troopers who needed a quick draw finisher.
Yeah, you have to choose assault class to be able to use it.
After watching quite a few of your videos on various subjects, I have to say...for someone so young, your a very good speaker on the subject. Concise, without glitches and lapses, always on target without prompts or notes. Probably the best 'teacher' about guns I have seen on the internet. Extremely well done. Thanks for your efforts Mr. Ian.
Ok, back to me learning about ..forgotten guns.
I say old chap can you make me an absurdly large pistol? There's a good man.
A safari pistol that found it's way into a few battlefields.
Simple and devastating.
Also a beautiful gun
That's a gudgeon masquerading as a four-barrel pistol.
Brit checking in here, if you think the 577 Lancaster pistol is a monster check out Thomas Bland's patent Slug throwing pistols. In the late 19th century we were fighting against the dervishes and some officers complained that they're issue revolvers were not powerful enough for an instant kill and quoted instances where although mortaly wounded the tribesman had managed to kill the officer in a few cases, I think the service revolver at the time was the .450 Adams, into the breach stepped the famous London gun maker Thomas Bland, the slug throwing pistols were double barreled side by side configuration and the bores were very large, a friend of mine owned one in 650 caliber an absolute monster, I believe that anybody struck by those projectiles would not get back up, best regards from South Yorkshire England
I think the last one is the most desirable of the bunch. Comes with case, accessories and a couple of rounds, that external extractor is really cool, and last but not least when you have strong recoil you'd like the barrels to be centered on the gun.
These guns were used alot in the 19th century Colonial wars in African. One has a prominent role in the movie 'The Ghost and the Darkness' (1996), which is about some big game hunters in Africa in the 1890's. The large bore bullets of the gun had tremendous stopping power as they had enough force to pierce flesh but not enough to go all the way thorough - often resulting in shattered bones and lodged bullets.
Thank you for showing these. I am reading a historical novel in which someone is using a 4 barrelled pistol. I had trouble imaging how it looks and works, so your video has helped. Thank you.
That trigger is indeed the coolest one I've ever seen
WoW just stumbled on this one is 2024! Nice to see that content quality was already there, and to see some improvements done since then.
screw glocks we need to bring these beauty's back into vogue
This and glocks don't compare to each other ..
@@fritzdaddy-135mmgetstagger4 yeah its almost like they are completely different guns from different eras
Are you wearing your dads woman’s panties again?
Remove them from your facial area so you can breath fresh air, you can’t huff the family jenkum all day dude it’s impolite.
Steampunk.
I have watched this video multiple times since it went up. These guns are just so cool.
Someone may have thought of this before, but the third firing pin hole may actually just be for a set of two pins to allow it to only rotate a quarter turn instead of a full 180º around.
Alyssa Griffin I think so too
Alyssa Griffin yeah i think thats it
So I think that the third firing pin hole is to allow the rotating striker mechanism to only have to make a quarter rotation instead of a half rotation each cycle. The striker has two pins, located 90 degree off from one another, and when cycled, it rotates a quarter turn down, and then it rotates a quarter turn up on the second cycle. So the third hole is to keep the second firing pin from wearing out against a plate, serving as an intermediary hole.
I actually have a theory on what that extra firing pin hole on the .577 is for.
There's two pins in that gun, instead of the one pin that the other examples use. The other models rotate the pin 90 degrees with each trigger pull, which works perfectly for the 4-barrel variety. 90*4 = 360. The two-barrel version, if it was using the single firing pin, would either have to rotate the pin 180 degrees with each trigger pull, or make the pin move straight up and down, which may have required a fairly substantial reworking of the internals.
Instead of that, it uses two pins placed 90 degrees from eachother, so that the mechanism only has to rotate 90 degrees with each pull. The two pins seem to be moving in tandem with eachother, which suggests to me that they are linked. Since there's two pins operated with each pull of the trigger, the first pin would go through the hole, but the second one would impact on the inside face of the gun, keeping the first one from hitting the cartridge. In order to allow the pins to move far enough, a second hole was needed for the other firing pin. With that hole in place, the two firing pins move forward fully, with one impacting the cartridge, and the other impacting harmlessly on the solid part of the barrel assembly (if that's the right term for it)
+TheRealAmusableBman I think you're right.
+TheRealAmusableBman that's actually pretty genius
+TheRealAmusableBman Bravo! That's what i was thinking. I thought the same thing! xD
+TheRealAmusableBman Exactly what I was thinking
+TheRealAmusableBman I suppose that after firing the upper barrel, the firing pin assembly rotates 90 deg. to fire the lower barrel, and then the mechanism is reset when the pistol is opened to reload... after which the upper barrel again fires first.
Great review! I have been a .gun collector, student, fancier all my life and only dreamed of ever seeing the Lancaster pistols. They were well built and gave the holder a great feeling of confidence.
Thank you for this geat review.
“This one is in 577 caliber.“ Mother of God, it's so beautiful.
Love all the remarkable weapons that come out of this time era, it was certainly a period of innovation and learning in regards especially to firearms.
I think the period between the US civil war and WW1 was arguably the greatest era of firearm development we have seen and are likely to see. Unless another J. M. Browning turns up.
OH MY GOD THE HAIR! Ian you look like a Viking! Anyway, this is a great example of Forgotten Weapons teaching me about a forgotten corner of history I was never aware of. I'd heard of howdah pistols before, but I had only heard of exposed hammer cap and ball pistols with single or double barrels in very large calibers. I had no idea they were available in centerfire and up to four barrels, or that they were used as military sidearms instead of just hunting sidearms.
Charles Lancaster was obviously an extremely talented individual. The guns on display here are sheer poetry in motion.
Thank you so much for showing these great examples of Victorian firepower.
Imagine the stopping power of a .577 with no gas leak. Supposedly, these were favored by tiger hunters for those times when the tiger might attack the elephant the hunters were riding on.
...and how would you like to do a two gun challenge with one of these and a Martini-Henry?
God can you imagine the cost of the ammo... after they did it I would like to have the total cost presented. I get shudders just thinking about it.
I think there is one of these in "The Ghost and the Darkness", one of my favorite movies. So it definitely makes sense for lion hunting, lol
@@demoncleaner80 Oh yeah! I remember now and yes that was a fine film. A friend has a pair of rottweilers named after the "stars".
Howdah - the basket on an elephant's back that carries people.
Yep, it's in the name :)
thats insane how perfect condition the inside and mechanics of that first gun especially like 300 years later, looks absolutely brand new, moves as smooth as butter thats unbelievable quality& craftsmanship
that trigger is really cool, I have never seen anything like that
papabeanguy That was the main selling point for me too....not that I could afford to buy one!
Ian, I am glad you chose to feature these pistols as I had never heard of them until your video. I am very impressed by the apparent craftsmanship!
good god i want one of these
Ikr :0 I'm so jelly
Same its fucking glorious
only one?? .these were meant for the term, "a brace of pistols!"
the 3rd firing pin on the 2 barrel .577 model: it bears on the extractor plate. lock the plate, the old spun copper "cartouches" are restrained. the system to extract is the same as the double stacks (4 bbl.). the pressure of ignition is resisted by the cruciform mortise (which restrains the cruciform extractor). with only the single "right side" stack, on the starboard side, you have the mortise. on the port, only good intentions and the extractor rod. the "firing pin" acts like a smith and wesson front crane lock. the small tool steel pin thrusting on the beefy left cheek of the breech increases resistance to "balloon bulge" exponentially. it looks very much like it is also the location of the pilot drilling for the staked striker pivot axis on the 4 barrel models, so the exact same jigs with "massaged" tooling could probably do the job (ALWAYS a plus, even if the product is essentially "hand fabricated to order"). pretty damned elegant solution, especially for the period, in what was basically an "artisanal job shop" churning out staid tools of empire, lol
lol, just rewatched, the first shot of the double breech. look in the corresponding spot on the face of the extractor. drilled hole. mystery of the 3rd "firing pin" solved by none other than yours truly. please, laud with beer as opposed to laurels, roflmao
The video on the Lancaster pistols was very interesting and the pistol look really nice
very nice guns , I'm not a hunter just collect black powder guns , very nice
I've come back to this video several times since I first watched it several years ago. These things are just awesome. I will have one one day, even if I have to make it myself!
I know what that extra pin hole is for! The gun has two firing pins, and it rotates 90 degrees back and forth to fire both barrels, that means that either the top pin (when firing the bottom) or the bottom (when firing the top) would be off to the side. Otherwise, you'd have to use one firing pin, that rotated a whole 180 degrees, which might have been wider. I suspect he did this so as to allow himself to use a similar mechanism as the four barrel models. I could be completely wrong, but just looking at the problem of getting two big barrels to fire, that's how I would have done it.
*****
It's not too hard to make something that toggles back and forth, it's just easier to make that toggle 90 degrees and not a full 180. It's vuagely similar to what's done in some over-under shotguns and two-barreled derringers.
Exactly. At 12:14 you can see both firing pins retract and begin to rotate back to the lower firing position.
There’s something really appealing about those. It’s that combination of lovely workmanship and entirely practical, no-nonsense design.
13:12 It's oddly satisfying how all the screws in the box are lined up.
Finest English craftsmanship old boy.
i feel I'm the only person taking note of this, but with my intellectual brain (not really) and my sharp wits (not really) i have deduced that you are not a guns enthusiast
you are a viking! look at him! hair, beard,intellect...dudes a viking!
but on a serious note. thank you so much for making this channel and making the content you do. i wish i could do what you do as i love firearms and i love history and the items people make through time and the significance they have.
its amazing to see all of these firearms and accessories used to make things possible and i hope you continue doing this for year to come.
thank you again
The .577 went for over 20k damn
Fine pieces of history for certain, and the extractor dropping back down sounds as smooth as new.
That second firing pin on the last gun, the .577; it's an extra locking pin for the breach when you pull the trigger. I bet he designed it that way for a seperate patent claim considering the 'variable rate oval rifling' on the other model.
Im fairly confident the third hole on the breech is so the "firing pins" only have to rotate 90 degrees instead on 180. the extra hole allows the firing pin not being used a place to go.
jake richard I was thinking sort of the same. Cool concept
jake richard good call, I bet he tried to patent it too. Along with whatever he stepped in that day.
jake richard you are likely correct. I suspect that either your reasoning, or to keep wear on the firing pin to a minimum by having a separate pin per barrel. Even with the large caliber though, I suspect wear would be minimal.
That 3rd firing pin hole is required because there are two firing pins on the rotating block. The hole on the breech plate matches up with a hole in the firing pin plate and that gives the 2nd pin somewhere to go once the plate rotates 90 degrees to fire the 2nd barrel. Fascinating gun!
I think this is a great idea for a simple, reliable weapon. I'm kind of sad this idea didn't make it too far into modern guns. I'd totally get one.
@Tony Montana id prefer a full sized version.
What a fabulous find, and great example of an ingenious gunmakers' produce! Bravo, and thanks for sharing.
I'd think just by looking at it that the 3 pin arrangement on the double barreled model is for reduction of mechanical energy needed. If the design just used top and bottom 2 holes, it'd have to make a 180 degree rotation per pull, whereas the 3 holed system only needs a 90 degree rotation for back and forth. Seeing how the 4 barreled models sport 90 degree rotation as well, it may be an attempt to stick to a more similar or minimalist design as the 4 barreled units as far as rotation needed to cycle.
My thoughts exactly.
I just wrote the same thing, then noticed your comment. Yeah, that's also my thoughts.
Wow what incredibly smooth and elegant works of art. Have to agree with you on the .476 being my favorite too and that double set trigger would make the motions of firing so much more enjoyable. Thanks for all your work!
I am not going to lie, it is really awesome that Rock Island lets you come and record these. And these pistols are sweet to look at. I would like to know more about the oval barrels.
Those are so fucking bad ass, I love that double stage trigger
Those huge and powerful pistols were used as back up for tiger hunters once unloaded their rifles
As a Brit where gun laws are draconian. I have learnt so much always entertaining professor Ian.
These are called Howdah pistols I assume that means you shoot them while hunting from a howdah on an elephant's back?
The reproduction Howdah i have is .577 (in which i use .58 miniball or .575 patched roundball), 25-30gr FFg black powder*, made by Pedersoli in Italy. It is the SxS rifled version of which there are several variations - 2 x 20ga smooth, .50 x 20ga, .50 x .50, etc. Sadly, the "engraving," though detailed, looks to be rolled. It is also nicely checkered.
The packaging also contains an almost identical "howdah and tiger" origin story.
Oddly, one of the first videos i watched on YT was of a field of shoulder high grass in India, a driver on an elephant, and a tiger just launching from cover onto both ! ! ! The driver was armed with nothing but a stick yet managed to beat the tiger off with only minor lacerations - absolutely incredible.
*this would be a target practice load; it's capable of twice that. There's also a removable shoulder stock that adds lots to accuracy and recoil management.
You might feel differently if you had a family member eaten by one. Man-killers were commonplace in India.
@@zazen2004 wow! I would not want to have to beat off a tiger with a stick! It sounds terribly uncomfortable for him and he might get cranky.
Elephants were used to transport British elites too I think? Having a holstered Howdah would be essential even if not hunting
@Pierre LeDouche The size , many of those pistols were in some big cartridges , 2 barrels were enough weight .. 12 bore pistol with 4 barrels , just beat the Tiger to death with it ..
The 2 shot .577 is awesome and I thank imbored742 down below for his genius. The third firing pin reduces the trigger travel and weight. This is an excellent model for a remake in a modern big bore pistol cartridge. My two cents on this is that the firing pins should be fixed in the breach wall and the rotating striker have lugs on the head. This will drastically reduce the precision machining and fitting required to align the firing pins with the holes as the striker rotates.
What's under the thin triangular plate on the right side of that .577 pistol's case?
Just the key to the case - not sure what was originally supposed to fit there.
Amazing! Clean machine work. Looks solid af. I especially like the sharpness of the auto-extractor. Look how flush it is when it returns. Set trigger is a cool feature too.
10:45 'Is that sexual assault'?!?!?!?!?
ayy
Pingu the Messiah lol
YOU JUST ABUSED A WOMAN!
👏👏
Shyme bc *meme review*
Charles Lancaster was one of England's top gun makers. The firm competed directly with Purdey, Alex Henry, Holland, and the other "Best" gunmakers. Lancaster's history of innovation and absolute A+ quality are well documented.
Just out of curiosity have you ever had a go at bidding in any of the auctions at RIA or James D. Julia ?
Yes, both.
did you ever win any of them ?
Yes, I have won items at both places.
Forgotten Weapons What kind of guns did you get, anything interesting ?
what have you won?
wow those guns are nice, it's so awesome you got to turn something you love into something we all enjoy, thanks Ian,
Awww yeah, Ian! RIA Time again? :D Now I'm excited
Yep, I've got a bunch more coming between now and the weekend of the 6th!
Forgotten Weapons Love your videos! TV show worthy
I've never seen these. These are awesome. Especially that trigger mechanism and the ejector.
I have a question, Howdah heck were These never adopted by the British armed forces?
The British did adopt the Lancaster oval bore rifled cannons, which were considered a state secret for several years.
Better question. Howdah heck do I get one.
Hello Ian, I believe the third firing pin hole is there to allow the two firing pins to travel in unison. As appears to be the case @ 12:13 in the video, the firing pins are rotated back and forth through 90 degrees of motion and so the non-firing pin is allowed to travel unimpeded through the third hole in the breech block and into the relief on the breech face while the active firing pin is aligned with its respective barrel.
WYR, stands for west yorkshire rifles, just for future reference.
You really did a great job in trying to get the proofmarks/writing eligible on video. Everything was very readable!
Wait... Howdyah shoot it?
Beautiful pieces, true workmanship and creativity :)
Nice to see that DICE 100% represented the customization of these weapons in Battlefield 1 (You can only change the zoom, which isn't even possible with iton sights)
this is best used as a fast TTK side arm in BF1 sort of like a primary instead of a pistol finisher.
Its best used for one kill or two it can be spammed fast and has great hip fire so its use is to take people out faster then your primary
deb schmit I know, but why not let us customize how many barrels there are and stuff
_ Rodos _ well it already has faster TTK then automatico it can only be beaten by shotgun 1 frame.
Your right and there is a version with more barrels.
but with this gun only balance i can see from less barrels is faster reload and it would have to be significant considering 2 shots eliminates it from effective hipfire and also means it cant kill past 10M or so.
You have to remember that this gun is already a variant of the bulldog, the bulldog is a long reload six barrel howdah.
Bulldog niche is nearly ensuring you win every 1V1 as you can spam hipfire and should take enemy out, its more forgiving then howdah.
Obviously bulldog isnt suited for actual aggressive play and is better paired with a less aggressive playstyle.
The howdah is best of both worlds, it lets you have fastest bullet TTK whilst reloading fast enough it can be used aggressively.
In my example i said use it with heilregal as you wont be needing to pistol switch much so instead use it when your about to get rushed by automatico so you never have achance of getting outgunned from TTK.
WIthin 10M or clutch moment >Howdah
after that range heilregal.
deb schmit I'm not concerned with balance as much, If you can, why not? The Kolibri has almost no use but it's a standalone weapon in the game.
_ Rodos _ its a troll weapon the kolibri same with LV10 medic gun and arguably LV 10 support gun.
You cant give Howdaw more barrels unless you cut the 2 hit kill range dramatically.
As much as i currently dislike BF1 it has some great class balance or rather variety thats useful compared to BF4.
The G18 in BF1 was the only gun worth using as sidearm because they nerfed the OHK of the magnum, so instead of a mix of sidearms being used there is only one.
I personally dont care about realisim, i am q huge BF fan but dont care for realisim and as you said "why not".
Think about this, if you gave howdaw an extra 2 shots or halved its reload time it would be insanely OP because no reason to use any other handgun.
More barrels and way bigger hip fire is balanceable since it would be ess useful at its role.
Balance is important, look how hardcore is broken in BF4, the scar H and bulldog are the only guns anyone should use.
Ian, please bring this intro music back. It brings so many memories from when I first started watching you way back in the day.
First: I think the intent of the third firing pin hole on the 2 Barrel .577, is that he could use a 2 pin plate, that only has to rotate 45 degrees, vs rotating 90 degrees. If it was 90 degrees of travel, the trigger would have to have an exceptionally heavy pull for the mechanical advantage, or it would have an unusably long pull.
Second: If any viewers buy one of these, could you....possibly furnish Ian with it for a test period, that may include a 2 gun action match? Please? :D
I would like to have a Howdah for my Africa collection some day. The .577 is beautiful, what a piece of pure power. I will have to stick with my Sniders guns for now considering the price of these things!
Howdah hell did you get these guns?
AsianUniBadger my god
AsianUniBadger stop
AsianUniBadger don't ever stop lol
Three Germans went to a BAR...
The very last one looks so badass. I like the old-style grip.
"I feel like I need a tiny shotgun"
Britain: "order up! "
Lancaster was a creative and mechanical genius; his guns were second to none.
I think the two barreled pistol is more for target shooting rather than combat.
The .577 is just the thing you need to defend yourself from Tigers while serving in India.
+Kevin Sullivan ^^^ What he said. This is a defensive handgun, for 2-legged and 4-legged attackers. Most target shooting pistols of this time period seem to be of the underpowered "parlor" type.. Guns that you would actually shoot inside your home with friends.
crazyfvck I stand corrected.
For a little historical 'backgground.' A Howdah is the platform on the back of an elephant where the rich people ride. Poor people walk and carry the rich guys stuff.
If you were attacked by a tiger you needed something a little easier to use than a rifle the size of a cannon. Check out Ian's video on the 4-bore rifles.
this has probably been said but I believe the third hold on the largest 2 barrel handgun is because the rotating firing pin block has 2 separate pins. it would make it so that the rotating mechanism would have to rotate a shorter distance. basically just a hole that exists so that the second pin is not being rimmed against metal.
That .577 one is the literal meaning of hand cannon.
Wonderful series. Very informative.
I wonder if anyone ever shot one from a lancaster bomber
Ian has really come a long way
Someone should Repro a bunch of these in 44 Russian or 44 Special.
Beautiful workmanship. Please share more of these weapons with us. Thank you !
I had this gun
In a video game
The wild west
@@plebianmarsh2373 howd you know
@@Star17Platinum17 cause im your stalker
Jk it was kinda obvious name me a game with this gun
@@plebianmarsh2373 no
Cus u sussy baka
Me too and still have it with proto pat and spit😁
wow i love these pieces so much
Ian 2 gun action match 577 howdah and a martini Henry or a 405 Winchester it would be epic and probably impossible but a man can dream
That would be epic. :)
Is it just me or is Ian getting more majestic as time goes on?
roflnosedlolfin yes he has evolved I'm to a beautiful goddess