Chuck DeGroat: How to Recognize Narcissism in a Church Leader
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Get notes on this podcast here: churchleaders.com/podcast/383... "It’s not just the megachurch pastors," says Chuck DeGroat. "There are small church pastors who lead with this grandiosity, these narcissistic characteristics."
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Sorry, I see no positives about narcissism. When you've been abused by this, you see noooo positives. This is a really good video, learned the "centered visionary & frenzie visionary" definitions are huge!!!!! I've attended small churches that have narcissistic tendencies.
Church history bears many narc pastors who split denominations and led large followings
Yes - small churches are not immune.
I agree, ig6851, it's dangerous to say or suggest there is anything positive about such an ABUSIVE disorder. Those, like me, who've fallen victim to a Narcissistic Pastor, know how it feels. And the Church is ignorant on this subject, and often rewards the Abuser and condemns the Abused, sadly. 😞
The best indicator is the body count. We need a way to find the back-trail of broken people. How do you find the people who are gone?
There really needs to be a zero tolerance policy for these narcs. So many sheep have been abused and damaged due to these monsters......
AMEN!!!
I really believe God is dealing with this in His church right now. There will be a time soon when called men and women of God will fill these roles. Like David replacing Saul.
Not all are monsters, though most may seem to be monstrous. It isn't like they went to their school counsellor and said they want to be a narrcistic monster minister when they grow up!
Most, I would suggest are completely unaware of their own selfishness, let alone have discovered they're narcissists. The problem lies in general that most people (at least in the US) have a myriad of psychological or psychoactive disorders and do not even know themselves. This is the main layer of insulation that enables narciscism to operate. Broken homes, people spending most of their time in an imaginary world of media and such. Fertile ground for narcissists.
Hare Kṛṣṇa
"zero policy" means it is a demon we are having, or not, to be dealing with? or a ..mentality definable(?) as consistently inimical toward Godhead, or the Absolute Truth, as ever-irrelevant to human society, or to human civilization?
If so, isn't the process of designating a demon, or a demonic mentality, as a "narcissist" one of soft-peddling? or pulling one's punches? or failing to expose him truly as the kind of consistent menace he is?
Narcissist" ("narc") is or is not a synonym, or euphemism, for demon?
To what extent, if any, "narcissist" is a misnomer (an incorrect word) that fails to capture, or ascertain, the substance of the ... non-gentleman as he is?
Sufficient light on the divine or demonic nature, or pious or impious nature (neutral nature?), of Narcissism is forthcoming upon development of a definition of the term, or origin study (etymology), of the term Narcissism?
In the pastime of Lord Jesus Christ marvelling at the great faith of the Centurion, an officer of the Roman Army, certain of the accepted disciples of Lord Jesus Christ began to express objection to all consideration of the Centurion as worthy of their Lord's marvel on grounds that he, the Centurion, is a "pagan" -- not one of true "chosen ones".
According to this scene from a major motion picture, 'Jesus of Nazareth'(?),
th-cam.com/video/97a0fLC4S-0/w-d-xo.html
Lord Jesus Christ takes up the task of weening some or all of His disciples of their apparently long held illusion regarding their, and other's, status as "chosen ones".
In good time, if not immediately, the disciples of Lord Jesus Christ, upon hearing from their accepted All-good Lord and Godhead the actual position of ... yes, great faith, no matter what the inferior, external, physical or social condition of the body may be housing such great faith, they, the disciples are accepting and thereby being saved the ... fate, or destination, of the narcissist or eternally lost or forgotten soul?
Hare Rāma
AMEN!!!
Thank you for this. I have to say though that 1. Narcissists don't "suffer" from Narcissism. 2. There is no "positive" that a Narcissist can bring to the workplace, the church (2 Timothy 3). God bless.
I had a pastor who help me in a great way. 11 years with us helping us in my marriage and fam and bam he takes of with my wife and kids 😭 now there out there 5 years together everything goes well prospering they gonna get a new house.... terrible pain...stabbed in the back it's hard now to know who is a real one who really care for the souls
This is happening more and more with devastating consequences not only to those wronged but to those who practice such things. The worst thing about this kind of abuse is what it does to your walk with God and your ongoing ability to trust Him, since all things come through Him (although He in no way causes sin) - but He allowed it. It takes time to rebuild your trust in Him so start there and once He restores your faith and trust in Him, He will help to rebuild your life in the way He has determined to do since before things were made, as this has been part of His great and good plan since that time. If that comment stings, you’re not there yet brother so go to God and cry out for Him to help you with your hurt and anger, asking him to remove it from you entirely, to heal you and restore your relationship to Him making your relationship to God as He desires to have it. I know that’s hard and the road God called you to walk is hard but call to God to heal your heart to keep bitterness and anger from taking over and causing more sin to cause you more hurt. God will repay the injustice done to Him. Your job is to humbly walk with Him as He works in you. The hurt from the abuse heaped on others by narcissistic people is so deep that only God can heal it. I’ll pray for you. May God grant you His peace.
I am a survivor of narcissistic church abuse. When you talked about (min 36) sitting down with a narcissist and they tell you its because they had a hard life or upbringing may I suggest that is an (out) or justification for them, a diversion of blame?! I was told for years by my pastor and church literally with tears in their eyes sometimes that he acted the way he did because we have no idea what him and his family have been through over the years at the hands of church people. We have no idea about the burden they cary as servants of God we have no idea how hard the life of the pastorate is and what they had to go through. I heard the stories and they were literally just normal things that everyone (pastor or not) go through. Dozens of people burnt out because they were trying to make the pastor and his family feel like we weren't "those people" people bent backwards and gave there life and services and money for years and it was never enough. He would shout at the end of teachings all the time in anger and tell us how we weren't totally committed to the Lord and call out groups of people in the church.
So right pastor or not to strike out or rail on the people if they do it is the sin of witchcraft ,a jezebel spirit
Emotional immaturity if one cannot control behaviour because of feelings.
Accountability is the key to keep narcissism from taking over church leadership. It will also weed out the narcs. Ime with church leadership there is too often a narcissistic pastor's wife behind the problems. Thanks for recognizing these problems and making efforts to expose them.
Wait, do we go to
The same church? Sounds like you just described our local church. Both our pastor and his wife are narcissists
There’s a problem with Protestantism. Martin Luther, king Henry VIII, and John Calvin all scream narcissism. Getting rid of hierarchy and putting themselves as Pope, not having to be celibate, and getting paid as much as they want, has made Protestantism highly attractive to narcissists. Looking back at the history of many denominations and pseudo Christian cults I see a lot of narcissism in these founders, and baked narcissism into the system itself. Even the theology and beliefs seem corrupted, trying to offer decadence while always demanding those offerings come in. An example of decadence is health/wealth prosperity, or being raptured before any persecution, or still being saved no matter how heinous the sin committed afterwards.
What happens when all the elders are paid and on staff and they “insulate” the narcissistic leader? In a smaller-ish church where there is that self-aggrandizing belief that “we are the only and best church in the area”?
Did you go to Barabbas Road Church in San Diego by any chance?? They got that game down hard.
@@sarahcurtright8801 No, I’m in Florida, but wow - such a telling name for a church - bizarre choice of name. And cults and controlling churches are all about what they call “disciple making” - sounds biblical, right? But generally when this phrase is touted, they really mean “ultimate control” of what they call leadership over your life - them, not the life-giving and vibrant Holy Spirit❤️
I have seen narc pastors with acting skills and show empathy and tears
I have been there. I was abused but I could not talk about it because he was so "fantastic" leader.
Narcissistic features. . .and Narcissistic Personality Disorder differ.
Our young pastor told us he suffers from OCD. And adhd. Iow …an excuse for a short temper… and very low self esteem. Told me … as he poured his second beer. That I was a Jezebel and had a Jezebel spirit. It’s very very sad. And yes he’s planted a new church.
What a great discussion. Thanks for bringing this issue to light. Unfortunately it is far to common in the ministry.
I have been a victim of what I now see was from a malignant narcissistic pastor who was also my spiritual director and confessor for 10 years and I have just woken up to be able to identify the trauma abuse that has been so painful. Doing alot of reading and research watching other videos on narcissism by other professionals have been so helpful in understanding the painful dynamics and behaviors that out of cognitive dissonance I too accepted and even defended my SD. and there are many pieces to this. I know what their origins of narcissistic injury and rage comes from. As an empath and a survivor who has always been a giver and suffered I need to take care of me in recovery now and they are accountable for the pain they inflict. esp. as a spiritual leader. More focus needs to be on the victims of this abuse..As a psychotherapist myself and now victimized I see it from the other end..its not just confusing. More parishioners and also staff need to be made aware of this spirit of Jezebel rampant like a cancer in the churches..
Dr DeGroat focuses on the larger dynamics of narcissism in church organization and it feels he is cautiously tiptoeing around to balance the views on both ends in general as he has counseled in church organizations instead of getting to the core of explaining traits and symptoms on how demonic and destructive their behaviors are to trauma victims and what to redflag and then run to the hills because they are mainly untreatable; .their spiritual pride and along with the other capital sins are so evident. Absolutely there should be protective boundaries for parishioners and checks and balances within the church to "out" these pastors for who they really are.
Dear Cheryl. It sounds like you have a lot of the experience and credentials. We need someone like you to help. Please consider making a channel of your own to speak on these issues. Please, and thank you!
Thank you for posting this conversation.
Narcissism has no positive aspects. I was married to a psychopath with narcissistic tendencies. Both my mother and stepmother are on the cluster B grouping. They made my life miserable and I used to pray to not live. I have since had lots of therapy, but it took me years to get over the trauma and forgive them. So yeah, no benefits.
Come in Croatia and try this over here...no way!! You MUST speak the Truth no matter what!! What counseling in the country where people have no idea what is spiritual abuse. Makes no sense , you just prolonge abuse by silence.
This is awesome!!
Thank you so much!
You're welcome!
thank you.
Great conversation, it would be interesting to know whether narcissists are drawn towards particular theologies within the church.
The emphasis on control that the narcissist requires may indicate a leaning towards traditions that view God's sovereignty in a similar fashion?
I lived with the worst of the worst narcissists per Chuck and I wonder if any baptism can ever be baptized???
Hare Kṛṣṇa
"be baptism" means "re-baptized"?
Hare Rāma
They become an idol.
I'm the most humble person I know
😂 well played! 😂
'I'm not conceited but I have every reason to be'
2632 minutes small churches
We have To remember that there is nothing new under the Sun and the Blood of Jesus has the power to Change anyone. The problem is we cant counsel a demon spirit it has to be cast out first and then you counsel the person so they won't invite that spirit back in. the person will know how to recognize the fruits of that Spirit and resist it....
WHAT IS "SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR"??? Nonsense