This is the best video on this subject. Probably the only one. I was so curious to know about this because power outage is very frequent in my area in monsoon and i feel terrible that despite the solar panels are producing so much, i have to tolerate heat. Thanks a lot!!!
i just got my 3900 watt 100% off grid system on line yesterday. i had to install it all by myself , could not get an electrician. took me about 4 days, 15-260 watt panels 4048 radian outback inverter , midnite 6 combiner box, outback flex 80 charge controller ,the midnite mini 175 amp disconnect box. and 8 6 volt 235 amp hr Trace batteries ,and it works like a dream come true .
Very well explained. Appreciate. I think to avoid all this mess, just install hybrid Inverter. Which you can use as on-grig or off-grid as per your budget (either use battery bank or without battery) when budget Allows, just add batteries to your system.
Less than a year ago we had 17-400 watt solar panels installed and the installer recommended we go with microinverters (Enphase IQ8). The power then is fed back to the grid via our Enphase combiner box. My first question to you is: how do the solar panels get disconnected from the grid when a grid down scenario is happening? What would we need to add to have the solar panels continue to generate power? We do not have battery backup now so the addition of these items is a given.
Lots of folks who were grid tied did not know the were in big trouble when the grid went down. Many were lied to or were not properly instructed. Johnny valentine does grid tie the properly way at Gaines solar. Go magnum.
Great video, Did I hear you say you power the new inverter /charger from the AC output side of the GT inverter? The Qs though, do you have a transfer switch that runs the critical panel when utility is on? I do not see 1 on your wall. Does your solar stay on when utility is lost? If you tapped into your solar system to power your inverters built in MPPT. where did you tap in and did you need a special device or what. Sorry for the many Qs but I to am installing a 48vdc 15Kw inverter/charger with built in transfer swt and 640ah batteries with a built in 80a MPPT charger. I am trying to find out where and how to keep the power coming in from the solar to feed the inverter/and charge the batteries. any input you can offer would be a big help. Thanks in advance
Island safety( shutting down grid)are market control for corporate and utility to keep down DIW and foreign competition is main reason all a long,. Which are you? You are better than most. THANK YOU
I like the DC coupled solution. With either AC or DC coupled options, one thing you don't mention in your presentation but does add a significant electrical retrofit is isolating your critical loads to a sub-panel - on an existing home, that can be a significant wiring task. Either AC or DC coupled battery backup for a grid-tied system are still too expensive and hard to get approved. In the mean time, I like the SMA Secure Power Supply feature which provides up to 2000W of power from a GT SMA inverter on a dedicated outlet when grid power goes out and the sun is shining. It's not as much power as a typical battery system provides and doesn't help after the sun goes down, but it's inexpensive and doesn't require maintaining expensive batteries. I'm surprised other inverter makers don't offer it. New "Hybrid" GT inverters are coming out but most are not yet approved for CA Rule 21 - These should make battery backup simpler to implement.
Totally agree with everything you said. However, DC Coupling can only be used on string inverters, not micro inverters or DC Optimizers like SolarEdge. Also, for areas enforcing the next Rapid Shutdown code at the module level, SMA just added a rapid shutdown box that shuts down their modules when the grid goes out, making the SPS unusable for now. They are working on getting both to work together. I have a video I'm working on describing that product, will be out shortly.
I look forward to your future videos on this topic. I have installed SMA inverters recently and in some case we were fortunate to be able to locate the SMA inverter less than 10-ft away from the PV array, so according to the NEC that array doesn't require the Rapid Shutdown Switch. Also, on my existing 10-year old SMA based PV system, when the old inverter dies, as a "repair" i should be able to replace it with a new SMA with SPS without having to meet the new requirement for rapid shutdown. I've been a fan of SMA products for a long time, but I have experienced so much frustration with installing the RSD and I'm not at all impressed with SMA's Power Plus technology. Why can't they implement rapid shutdown without all that extra hardware and wiring???
Can you elaborate on the concept of " SMA Secure Power Supply feature" I am specifically interested in understanding how to enable my grid-tied system to "disconnect" from the grid and run during the daylight (relying on generators for night) without a huge expense or the need for batteries.
@@ToolTimeTabor You are asking about a feature of the SMA SunnyBoy string inverter from 5 Years ago which had limited 'off-grid' capability to provide up to 2000 watts through a separate outlet tied to the inverter which needed to be switched ON when Grid power was out. The power available at this special outlet was limited to whatever was being generated by the solar panels up to 2kW. If a cloud appears, that power can be reduced significantly and if the load is too much, the power is interrupted. This is not a solution for powering your home off-grid. It's only good for powering a few small loads when the sun is shining. Furthermore, this feature is incompatible with module level rapid shutdown, a code requirement in most jurisdictions which made Secure Power Supply obsolete a few years after it was released. If you want to have practical home power during an outage YOU NEED BATTERY STORAGE period.
Is the reason that the inverter/charger needs to be 20% bigger than the grid-tied inverter so that there is no clipping of power to the inverter/charger? or is it because the inverter-charger will blow the magic smoke and fry the unit?
The reason to oversize it is that with AC coupling, you are backfeeding power through the inverter/charger's AC output, which is not how it was originally intended to be used. Oversizing by 20% is a general rule of thumb, but it's always best to check with the inverter/charger's manual or manufacturer to make sure AC coupling is supported by the inverter/charger and, if so, how much capacity it can handle from the grid-tied inverter.
I got my Fronius Primo very quickly. I am waiting on an electrical parts supplier to open to install it because I have to buy a manual disconnect switch because of the contract with our power company, but it looks really nice. We got it mounted today. I would think the knob on the bottom would work for that, and it has a lock, also required, but the contract says it takes the kind with a lever, blah blah blah, from what it seems.
It is common for the grid provider to require an additional lock-out switch. For a 7.6kW inverter, you need at least a 40A non-fusible switch gear disconnect. The one we generally sell with it is the SquareD DU222RB 60A. www.altestore.com/store/enclosures-electrical-safety/switch-gear-disconnects/switch-gear-disconnects-ac/square-d-du222rb-60a-240vac-unfused-disconnect-2-pole-p8729/
Thank you Amy! My Mother (84 at the time) bought an Enphase microverter system in 2014 they never explained to her that she wouldn't have power if the grid went down! The solar company was paid $40k to install 40 panels monitor and service! Six months in the system failed the solar company knew but never informed us or service the system! Mom paid a true up bill in 2015 without questioning why there was a bill of $1500 she had to pay likewise she never informed me of course I would have gone ballistic since this was the type of thing the system was to help us avoid! My Mother passed away last December and in October of 2017 I found out about the true up bill having received another for $7k+ as it was being disconnected! That's when I called the solar company, who told me they can't check out the system without being connected to the grid, that is how I found out about grid tie! Swearing I would not be caught again with my pants down I set about trying to find a way that I can go pseudo off grid!tSince then I have been running a portable generator my intro to generating power through the use of an alternator (undersized won't fire the HVAC) 9k generator gas $55 dollars a day converting to tri fuel am getting ready to buy standby generator 22K am also going to invest in batteries and another inverter for AC coupling as well as the required pieces such as an ATS, critical load panel, batteries etc. I'm suing the solar company for breach of contract as well as for fleecing the elderly, as I found the same system, including the permits for $20k ! Installers spent 2 days on my roof breaking 100+ tiles and not reimbursing us for them, they used the extra tiles we had allotted for the pool house to be roofed at a later date! $20k for an installation and a failed one at that! Is there any idiosyncrasies that Enphase systems employ that I should be wary of? I know they offer batteries even if Enphase says differently, though they advertise them on their website! I have tried to get the information that you provided from them for a couple of months now! They agree the Solar company is at fault but even with that they are stingy with the desired info needed to engineer my way out of this predicament! I will pay to add equipment before I pay for something caused by the negligence of a party paid to avoid such things!
What a nightmare. It infuriates us when we hear of dishonest solar installers taking advantage of people and giving the good installers a bad name. The Enphase battery systems are not available yet in the US. You can do AC Coupling with the system to turn it into an off grid system if you wanted, but that would take a big battery bank. Give us a call and talk to one the the technical sales reps here to discuss options.
The AC coupled system inverters don't seem to distinguish between solar power and grid power, to charge batteries. I only want my batteries to charge from solar unless I choose to override. Is there an AC system that can do this? Hybrid inverters inverters can but they are a version of DC coupled.
The easiest way to make sure your batteries charge from solar is to wire your system with a DC solar charge controller. If you have to AC-couple, you will be using one of the hybrid inverter's AC connections for Grid and one for AC-In from the solar PV inverter. You can usually program your inverter to only charge using the AC-In so that no grid power is used for the batteries.
The largest battery in the world is in South Australia it can theoretically supply a tiny 100MW of power for 75 minutes (when new its total capacity is 129 MWH). In the event of cyclonic weather South Australia can be without significant sunlight and usable wind for up to 10 days. The state uses 34,087 MWH/day so the worlds largest battery (assuming it's full capacity was available, which it isn't) would be theoretically able to support the state for 5.45 minutes before being completely discharged. For a 10 days weather event for normal supply to the customers the state would require 340,870 MWH, bearing in mind the states target of 75% renewables for that period it would have mechanical generating capacity of 85,217 MWH so the shortfall would be 255,652 MWH. That would suggest a requirement for 1981 Tesla batteries. That is why the idea of using Tesla batteries for a back up power solution is so ridiculous.
We are big fans of distributed power instead of centralized. That allows each house to have a small battery bank to handle their critical loads independently, rather than a huge central one owned by the power company. Tesla batteries really aren't meant for off-grid or even battery back-up. They are intended more for self-consumption, where you just store your solar power for a few hours to use later in the day when the sun goes down and your loads go up. There are many types of batteries that are great for a distributed solar system with battery backup, including the good ol' lead acid and LiFePO4 batteries. Not everything circles around around Tesla.
If a person bought a solar array this year and bought a battery back up system next year, would they still be able to receive the Fed. tax rebate for the batteries next year?
Thanks to Alte for helpful video and tutorials. I wonder if you have a video or tutorial shows how a grid-tied battery system connect to the grid? What is the required equipment (fuses, switches, boxes, meters etc.) and how should be done the connections?
That is an excellent suggestion, I will add it to my list. Most inverters will have details in their installation manual, but I will absolutely make a video discussing it. Meanwhile, you can see a good example from the Schneider XW+ Install manual. i.imgur.com/p0Wn7vf.png
I feel, the power output is limited by the house annual usage. mostly, need 10kWh battery for critical load, and 30kWh+ for the full load. If use a lithium system, the power will be a not a limit. The most problem in AC Coupling system, when battery has fully discharged by longer disaster, it can not be recovered by itself when sunny. To overcome, need an extra small 1-2 panel DC system. MPPT charger with 1~2 solar panels. in ordinary day, extra panel will charge the battery and supply some DC utility power, if more than enough, it will be sell into grid if use hybrid battery inverter such as XW pro, so, never waste. and safety back-up all.
I'm still stuck on the part when the grid is UP but, your solar power isn't enought to power the whole load of house. So will AC and Solar combine? is it GRID or SOLar, or is is GRIND AND SOLAR at the same time. if so, then where does this simultanous even occcur
hi, we have installed a 10 Kw solar power system with mono perc PVs supported by an on grid 3 phase inverter of 10 Kw with efficiency of 98.7 % by we are getting only 50% generated wattage. I believe we should get minimum of 80% wattage generation as per our electrical design when all the parameters tilt angle, sunlight etc , are well in place. can you please guide us why we are getting only 50% generated wattage instead of 80% generated wattage.
Great video I'm curious I have a grid-tied inverter but its range is 36 volts however all of my panels are 41 volts is there a way to lower the voltage on the panels so they can meet the range of the grid-tied inverter and I can start using it thank you
I have 4 of these same types of types of tigrids and verters but nowhere can I find on how much amps can run through these machines we know how much voltage can run but how much amps can you put through these machines I want to know if I can take a 48 voteight 8 vote battery called Reynold rhino from big batteries Which has 276 AH Is that too much amp hours or is this OK I can't find in the destructions or any TH-cam videos to tell the capability on how much amperage can run through these machines. 🌞 sun Tie grid inverters 1000w
ArtGreen Construction A.C. coupling is the best option for SolarEdge. Depend9on the size of your grid-tie inverter, the Schneider XW+ could be the perfect solution for up to 6800W.
Searching all over internet finally got it. I have 3 questions. I have a 2kva 2 X150ah battery sign wave home ups through which all medium load equipments are powered. We don't have buy back facilities of electricity. In summer hectic power cut also. 1) I don't want to throw away my old inverter, to power it up which type of solar inverter i should select micro inverter or string type or power optimizer type and of what capacity. 2) my ups is with microcontroller and transformer so will it take current from solar inverter through its out put instead of through input as you discussed if it is an AC coupling to charge battery. If not any way to make it happened? Or atleast do manage live load. 3) how I manage over charging issue and low load and high production issue which even lead to total repair of both inverters?
Very informative video great job. What I'm thinking at this point is it would be cheaper and less complicated to convert my entire house to DC than play around with all this garbage. I'm sorta kidding but sorta not kidding.
Hello. your video is very interesting. I would like to know if it is possible to use a pure sine wave converter 12v 220-240v instead of a hybrid inverter. thank you very much.
Wow..... at last a really good, informative & detailed video on the subject; thank you. I liked it so much that I'm now downloading it for another viewing off-line, when the aspirin that I've just needed has dealt with the headache all that information has just caused - lol. Could I ask a question please? I'm currently trying to do almost exactly what your video is based upon. I currently have a grid-tied 5.75 kwp system in the UK, running through a SMA SB4000-20 TL inverter. I now have a new Sunny Island 6.0 'hybrid?' inverter & 4x 12v = 48v 220ah VLSR/AGM batteries ready to connect up. Just found that I needed a SMA Energy Monitor & I ordered one of those earlier today. If or when I get this all connected & up & running, it should provide flexible storage, but still grid-tied. So my 2nd step would be to purchase an Automatic Transfer Switch, to comply with UK safety regulations, to make my little system fully independent & functional in a blackout situation. a). Could you recommend a couple of reasonably priced Automatic Transfer Switches please, as these are really expensive here in the UK. b). I currently have a couple of old Immersun units (now available as MyEnergi Eddi) that I wired in myself some years ago, & they are brilliant. However I know they can put great strain on transformers (& cause them to fail because they utilise pulse technology) & my new Sunny Island unit probably has a transformer in it. Where should I connect my Immersun units relative to the Sunny Island connection & to my home breaker box or mains grid input to avoid potential damage? Thank you in anticipation of your answers, JohnnyK.
I'm glad you liked the video, but sorry I can't be more helpful with details for your installation. We don't have many UK customers, so don't deal with your local codes or products. I did find an SMA manual that I believe would be very helpful for you. files.sma.de/downloads/SI-SBS-Backup-PL-en-26.pdf
I've previously studied SolarEdge's hodgepodge of documentation, and it suggests that its grid-tied inverter supports a “export” / “feed-in” limitation feature (and hopefully similar functionality exists from other vendors). The intended purpose of such functionality appears to be for not running afoul of utility feed-in limits, but it seems like this might also be a way of adjusting the output of the solar array in an AC-coupled system to suit the battery bank and loads during a grid outage. That might mitigate the listed 'con' of AC-coupled systems having to artificially oversize the battery bank in order to match the solar array. Such an approach also seems far preferable than the current 'all-or-nothing' approach of MagnaSine's method of signaling the inverter on or off by adjusting the line voltage frequency. However, the devil would be in the details on making such an integration work; are you aware of anyone attempting such a system?
The question that comes to mind would be what would trigger that throttle when switching over to coupled? They do have their StorEdge unit that would make a lot of this easier, but that doesn't help folks who already have a system installed. There was supposed to be a retrofit kit, but I believe they are not providing that now. Inverter manufacturers are seeing the light and most are adding battery capability to future models, although most of them seem more focused on Time of Use and Self Consumption than battery backup. So for now, hodgepodge is the perfect word.
Thanks for the response. As I see it... Option A: I saw a SolarEdge HD inverter menu option to set a maximum inverter power output. If an equivalent ModBus control existed for this menu parameter, then larger solar array could be temporarily capped as needed to work with a more modest MagnaSine (or similar) AC-coupled battery system for critical loads. Option B: to leverage the "export" / "feed-in" feature, the SolarEdge inverter expects a WattNode meter to measure current on each of the (split) phases (to judge export power). Ideally, the MagnaSine would report more nuanced feedback than its present 'all-or-nothing' implementation, and this feedback would be returned as WattNode measurements to dynamically tailor the inverter output. Alas, all of this is just theory and is fraught with potential 'gotchas'.
Do you have any line drawings and component layout such as would be needed for an AC coupled system that is using a Solaredge SE11400US with a 15.2 kW array?
That's a tricky one. You need to have the battery based inverter bigger than the grid tied inverter, so you would need to have multiple inverters stacked. Let me check with a couple of manufacturers to see if they recommend doing that or not.
Wow, well stated. I've been researching a lot of this topic and I have yet to find one that simplifies it so I can understand it. I have a solar edge system so I need an AC coupled system. Easy. One question though, you said the charging with the AC coupled system is more ... twitchy, for lack of a better word. Is it still safe? Does it still work effectively? Can you explain it a bit more? Thanks!
Hey every early morning my grid tied system inverter lights is green, as the day goes clearer it turns red!!! Can Anyone here have any ideas why this happens? Seems like the sun activates the red light. I have 10 solar panels 100w each and the inverter is a 1000 W grid tie inverter Thanks
Sorry. SolarEgde changed their StorEdge so much from when I recorded it, it was very out of date. It's on my list to do a new updated one. If you do want to watch it knowing some things are not up to date, you should be able to see it here, th-cam.com/video/WJzYQIMTAq8/w-d-xo.html .
I have a a 20 panel SolarWorld 255 system with Enphase M215 microinverters and would like to like to add a battery backup to it. It sounds like a AC coupled solution would work. We have a fridge, freezer, and oil boiler with forced hot heater heat. While on vacation in January our whole house load varied between 11 and 18 kWh per day (only the above listed and 1 cfl light on). What would you suggest?
Amy - you made mention of a StorEdge video within this one and yet I cannot find that video within your altE library. I'm assuming you've recorded it and perhaps just haven't posted it yet? I'm asking as I am pretty interested in that inverter for my planned future DIY solar project. It sounds like a great way to get the grid-tied portion of the project up and running and then expand into battery storage when the funds allow. Thanks for the clarification!
You caught me. I had done one, but then they changed the product so much it made my video out of date, so I disabled it. It is on my short list to do a new updated video. Thanks for keeping me honest, I'll be sure to get it done soon. Meanwhile, you can check out the product here, www.altestore.com/store/inverters/hybrid-inverters/solaredge-storedge-76kw-high-power-inverter-p40810/
Either a Schneider XW+6048 or a Magnum Energy MSPAE-4448 would be great options. www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/schneider-electric-xw-plus-inverterchargers-p40562/#XANXW6848 or www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/3000-to-7000-watts/magnum-energy-mspae-4448-4400-watt-48v-invertercharger-p8110/
That gets a bit complicated. I'm not an EV expert, so anyone else, please chime in. My understanding for most systems is it is simply an AC to DC charger for the car. So if the grid goes out, so does your charger. I'm assuming the V2H controller has an inverter to convert the high voltage car battery to 120/240VAC for your home. If so, that may be able to be the battery based inverter tricking the grid tied inverter into staying on. If you have any details about your particular system, that could help.
Love this video. Probably the best I have seen on DC vs AC coupling. I do have a question since I have a unique situation. I have an existing GT system with a SMA Sunny boy 7.7 and I am wanting to add a 2nd array with battery backup system that will continue to export excess once batteries are charged. I was curious how you would recommend integrating? I have been looking at some batteries but they state that they are AC coupled batteries with built-in inverters. I know that AC coupling is less efficient. But if my current set up is better suited for AC coupling, then that’s the route I will take. Your thoughts? Thank you in advance.
Buy a "True Hybrid" Inverter would solve them all automatically with minimum wires, breakers and get more efficient energy.. The only problem is that we can't yet combine solar & Wind power together in a system, since no inverters in the market could handle both input at the same time yet. However, by AC Coupling a Solar Hybrid Inverter and a Wind GT Inverter injected to the same grid would probably work perfectly..
What Battery inverter I need with micro inverter grid tied solar system ? Micro inverter grid tied is max 45kwh a day . battery back up is going to be lithium battery 100kwh What Battery inverter I need ?
does it only work as a backup or can I have the batteries giving me electricity during night time? I know there are hybrid inverters that would heat the water out of battery but what about the whole house?
It all depends on how you configure the system, and what you choose to power off the battery bank. If you try to power your whole house off the battery at night, you will likely need a fairly big battery bank. But yes, it is possible.
The stand-alone solar power system. A lot of material on the subject is already in place: @t Subjects of interest: -The DC, much more reliable for off-grid dwellings generally, and for our Islands and Areas of Light particularly... -Voltage Standardization of DC Distribution System for Residential Buildings -The 'return' of DC (direct current) -The DC (direct current) 'nano-grid' - a more reliable solution for Areas and Islands of Light -DC (direct current) Appliances -The Ufer Grounding, a more preferable and more reliable electrical earth grounding for our Areas and Islands of Light.
Is there such a thing as a grid tied inverter charger? Both options seem VERY expensive when there is a very nice two phase inverter sitting inside a 5KW SunnyBoy. I can't believe no engineer has addressed the power outage issue. This is VERY LOW hanging fruit my friends!!!
all my thanks to you please can you explaine to me how to determinate voltage system in PV off grid system 12V or 24V or 48V it mean that we compare the peak power by the interval of 12,24,48V while somme peoples compar the daly total power of loads. i give to you a simple example witch resume the proplem; i have a led projector of 500w when it works 2 hours per day we need voltage systeme = 12v but if it works 20 hours per day we need voltage system = 48V can you correct me this please because i feel that i have right 99% .???? all the respect
Because most batteries have a limit to the number of parallel strings, a bigger battery bank generally needs to be built with a higher voltage. For example, if you have 12V 100Ah, 1200Wh batteries that want to be limited to 3 strings, if you need 3600Wh bank, you can do 12V, as 3 of the batteries will be enough. But if you have more loads, so you need 12 batteries, you can do a 48V battery bank with 4 of the batteries in series, and 3 strings in parallel. If you tried to do 12 batteries at 12V, they would all need to be in parallel, which most batteries cannot do. So yes, in your example, you need 1,000Wh for 2 hours, and 10,000Wh for 20 hours. So your battery bank would have to be bigger for 20 hours, requiring more batteries, and a higher voltage bank would be better.
I don't yet, but am working on one. Meanwhile, look at the install manual, page 39. www.altestore.com/static/datafiles/Others/GS_8048A_4048A_InstallationManual.pdf The Grid goes to a 30A dual pole breaker in your main breaker box, preferably in the bottom corner, furthest away from the main breaker (the manual says 50A, but that is for a 8048). The AC Out goes to a 30A dul pole breaker at the input of a Critical Loads breaker box. That's where you move all of your critical loads to be powered by the battery bank when the grid goes out. When the grid is up, the inverter's internal transfer switch just passes it all through to the main breaker box and the grid. (4000W / 240V x 1.25 = 20.8A, so round up to the next available size)
i am going 100% off grid, my area was hit hard by hurricane Maria, i have 16-260 watts solar panels , 4048 radian outback inverter , outback MPPT FM-80 charge controller and a midnite 6 circuit combiner box, with 8 Trace 235 amp hrs batteries , what size of a breaker do i use in my breaker panel and i need 40 feet of wire to my panel box from my inverter, what size wire do i run? the installation manual shows the GSLC BOX that my inverter did not come with,
Steve, our thoughts are with you folks. We've been shipping solar equipment down there as fast as we can. 4000W / 240V x 1.25 (NEC requirement) = 20.8A, so round up to 25 or 30A 2-pole breaker, whatever you can get that fits in your breaker box. The inverter installation manual recommends 8AWG wire. That is plenty big for that distance with only about 1% voltage drop.
Give me some inverter and battery options and tell me why. I already know everything you talked about in this video. I need a simple solution like SMA Sunny Boy Storage. If you tell me when that would be available in USA and what batteries I can use with that, now that would be helpful.
mlg779 what do you have for a system now? There is no one size fits all solution, we'd need to know more about what you have before we can make any suggestions.
I have a SMA 4000 tl-us and 3.1 Kw of panels and I installed it myself. I was looking at AC coupling with Schneider XW-6848 because it can do Lithium batteries and custom voltages, and the 3 panels of DC coupling with Midnite Kid charge controller(facing south east) just in case the batteries get depleted one night and the AC coupling would not be able to start in the morning; but this is too expensive and a lot of moving parts the reason I am looking for a cleaner solution, maybe SMA Sunny Boy Storage. and this would also be cheaper.
I'm attending a training on the SunnyBoy Storage today. I'll let you know when it will be available in USA. If they are doing trainings now, that says it will be soon. Stand by.
i have 8 Trace 235AH 6V Deep Cycle Battery 48 volts and have the flexmax 80 can you tell me what are the charging voltage set points-current limit, absorb, float, absorb time limit, end amps and rebulk.?
I'll be honest, I'm not familiar with those batteries. I found 1 reference to them online, with not much for details. It looks like it is the same Trace who made inverters forever ago, and is now Xantrex/Schneider, so I'm thinking the batteries are very old, so there won't be much on them on the internet. So your best bet is to find similar battery's info and use that. Here is a link to Trojan T-105 which is very similar. Page 17 has the charging parameters. I would use those numbers. www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf
As you can see in the Outback FLEXmax 80 manual, the defaults are different. www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/flexmax_6080/owner_manual.pdf , page 99. Max current is defaulted to 80A, the battery (again, unable to find the Trace manual, basing on Trojan T-105) wants max current 13% of C/20 rate, 235Ah x 13% = 30A. Battery specs call for 2.45V absorb per cell, so that is 2.45V x 24 cells = 58.8V, default is 57.7V. Equalize from the battery is 2.7V x 24 cells = 64.8, defalt is 57.6. You can compare the rest yourself from the manuals.
i am going 100% off grid, i have 16-260 watts solar panels , 4048 radian outback inverter , outback MPPT FM-80 charge controller and a midnite 6 circuit combiner box, with 8 Trace 235 amp hrs batteries , what is the best disconnect 250 amp DC breaker you sell and do you have a video on it.
You need more batteries for that size solar array. 260W x 16 = 4160W / 48V = 86A. The charge controller can output up to 80A. If you assume charging at even a C/6 rate, which is the absolute fastest you should charge (I'd prefer C/8), that is 80A x 6 = 480Ah battery bank. You have half that. You should have 16 batteries in 2 parallel strings of 8 for that size solar array. Have you made a loads list to see how much energy you need? As for the breaker question, you only need a 175A breaker. Then you can use 2/0 cables. If you don't get the Outback GS Load Center designed for both the AC and DC breakers, I suggest you get a nice DC breaker box like the Midnite MiniDC175, that will let you also add the breakers for the charge controller. www.altestore.com/store/enclosures-electrical-safety/electrical-enclosures/disconnectload-enclosures/dc/midnite-solar-mndc175-mini-175-amp-dc-disconnect-p2415/
yes i am working on the other 8 more 235 amp hr batteries , i plan on staying under 5 Kwatts at night, and i get around 6 good hrs of sun here in Puerto Rico , 0% shade i am running everything energy saver
LOL. I'm right with you on that one. I am going to look about going the simpler route and purchasing at least 5K of solar panels - no batteries - and sell the surplus back to the utility. I'll still need a generator when I lose power but that normally is a rare event. Adding batteries and inverters - and I still can't power a heat pump? No thanks. Summer time in Charlotte, NC is hot and muggy. I have a 15KW generator converted to run on propane or gas - that is my backup....
The more I research the more complicated it seems! Why can't we just have a grid tied system, have battery bank and when the grid goes down, shut off the main breaker at the meter to protect workers doing repairs? "When they find their round tuit"...
Because not everybody can be trusted to remember to turn off the breaker. One person forgetting can cause a lineman's death. Newer technology is coming out that will automatically measure the amount of energy your house is using, and will mat h the inverter output, so that regardless of how big your system is, it will not sell back when the grid is out. This will help achieve what you are looking for.
@@AltEStore thank you. I suppose an automatic transfer switch won't accomplish this either. It would jus transfer to grid power to batteries when low or no solar.
@@bobcole3852 A *Hybrid* Inverter certainly can automatically supply AC Power to the Critical Loads Panel when the Grid is down, without any human intervention ...
Nice solutions but I think I'm just going to use a $10 smart outlet and a regular $15 12V charger. I will set the battery bank charger to only charge during the day on the same circuit as the grid tie inverter. I will then hook up a simple DC to AC inverter and power my loads with that.
That's fine if your are just trying to charge a small 12V battery to charge your phone and maybe power an LED DC light, and the power is only out for a short time. The system we are talking about is to provide large backup to your fridge, furnace blower, well pump; much larger loads than the UPS you are talking about. This can use your solar system to recharge the battery bank if the power is out for days (or weeks or months). Two different solutions for two very different scenarios.
I don't need to worry about heating and cooling because I'm going to install a geothermal heat exchange, so all the power needed is for the circulating pump for the liquid and a fan to move air over the radiator. I can't wait to fire the electric company.
The added costs for a battery backup system to the solar panels hardly seems worth it. Unless you're losing power frequently, just buy a good dual fuel genny.
This video is intended for people who do lose power often, or who do not have easy access to fuel for a generator. There is a huge need for this in the islands that got destroyed by the hurricanes. They are spending hours each day and a fortune on fuel, 6 months later, trying to keep their generators running.
Puerto Rico lost power for over 6 months, and had no fuel for generators. Here in the northeast we lose it for weeks in freak ice storms. A generator isn't always the best solution.
@Norris Brock - Because Daily Cycling of a large battery bank is very expensive, while Grid Power is very CHEAP for daily power. The battery bank and / or generator is best for power outages only
You make something simple very complicated, you don't know how to explain. *Talking bad about the competition is not professional. Will be better to do one set up off grid, period. Need to concentrate on the speech and information one day ahead, two hours before the shooting of the video study the content, because you are kind of lost between parts of the video, lack of confidence.
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You will be missed Amy. May you rest in Peace... From faithful subscriber..
This is the best video on this subject. Probably the only one. I was so curious to know about this because power outage is very frequent in my area in monsoon and i feel terrible that despite the solar panels are producing so much, i have to tolerate heat. Thanks a lot!!!
i just got my 3900 watt 100% off grid system on line yesterday. i had to install it all by myself , could not get an electrician. took me about 4 days, 15-260 watt panels 4048 radian outback inverter , midnite 6 combiner box, outback flex 80 charge controller ,the midnite mini 175 amp disconnect box. and 8 6 volt 235 amp hr Trace batteries ,and it works like a dream come true .
How is you solar install operating 2 years on? (Curious to know)
WOW wishing, I could hire Amy to do my solar set-up
A big thank you to all the hard work AltE does to help EDUCATE the public! We appreciate it!
Nice
I'd like to see an update of this well done video now almost 8 years later.
Very well explained.
Appreciate.
I think to avoid all this mess, just install hybrid Inverter. Which you can use as on-grig or off-grid as per your budget (either use battery bank or without battery) when budget Allows, just add batteries to your system.
Concise and well presented. Give her a raise. God Bless.
Thanks Amy. This is what I need. this will ensure that my critical loads are powered at all times. GOOD PRESENTATION!!!
That you Amy this is the very same question I’ve been dealing with. I was thinking of having a automatic backup generator but I like this idea better.
found your site two weeks age, you are the only one that makes sense, thank you.
You are da bomb. Just learned yesterday about these battery work around for grid-tied solar systems when the grid goes down.
Less than a year ago we had 17-400 watt solar panels installed and the installer recommended we go with microinverters (Enphase IQ8). The power then is fed back to the grid via our Enphase combiner box.
My first question to you is: how do the solar panels get disconnected from the grid when a grid down scenario is happening?
What would we need to add to have the solar panels continue to generate power?
We do not have battery backup now so the addition of these items is a given.
This channel is awsome they do a great job of answering alot of questions on solar energy keep up the great work! Sincerely Calcifer
Discovering this channel made my day!
Man. I see you everywhere. lol I ended up getting a Chevy Spark EV because your video helped me understand what I was getting into. Thanks, bro. :)
Lots of folks who were grid tied did not know the were in big trouble when the grid went down. Many were lied to or were not properly instructed. Johnny valentine does grid tie the properly way at Gaines solar. Go magnum.
This is the video I have been looking for. Thank you!
Great video, Did I hear you say you power the new inverter /charger from the AC output side of the GT inverter?
The Qs though, do you have a transfer switch that runs the critical panel when utility is on? I do not see 1 on your wall. Does your solar stay on when utility is lost? If you tapped into your solar system to power your inverters built in MPPT. where did you tap in and did you need a special device or what. Sorry for the many Qs but I to am installing a 48vdc 15Kw inverter/charger with built in transfer swt and 640ah batteries with a built in 80a MPPT charger. I am trying to find out where and how to keep the power coming in from the solar to feed the inverter/and charge the batteries. any input you can offer would be a big help.
Thanks in advance
thank you for all your help , thank you for the fast shipment of my mini 175 amp disconnect.
Can you send Ald wiring diagram thanks
Island safety( shutting down grid)are market control for corporate and utility to keep down DIW and foreign competition is main reason all a long,. Which are you? You are better than most.
THANK YOU
Thank you Amy! Great presentation and it is helpful for me.
I like the DC coupled solution. With either AC or DC coupled options, one thing you don't mention in your presentation but does add a significant electrical retrofit is isolating your critical loads to a sub-panel - on an existing home, that can be a significant wiring task. Either AC or DC coupled battery backup for a grid-tied system are still too expensive and hard to get approved. In the mean time, I like the SMA Secure Power Supply feature which provides up to 2000W of power from a GT SMA inverter on a dedicated outlet when grid power goes out and the sun is shining. It's not as much power as a typical battery system provides and doesn't help after the sun goes down, but it's inexpensive and doesn't require maintaining expensive batteries. I'm surprised other inverter makers don't offer it. New "Hybrid" GT inverters are coming out but most are not yet approved for CA Rule 21 - These should make battery backup simpler to implement.
Totally agree with everything you said. However, DC Coupling can only be used on string inverters, not micro inverters or DC Optimizers like SolarEdge. Also, for areas enforcing the next Rapid Shutdown code at the module level, SMA just added a rapid shutdown box that shuts down their modules when the grid goes out, making the SPS unusable for now. They are working on getting both to work together. I have a video I'm working on describing that product, will be out shortly.
I look forward to your future videos on this topic. I have installed SMA inverters recently and in some case we were fortunate to be able to locate the SMA inverter less than 10-ft away from the PV array, so according to the NEC that array doesn't require the Rapid Shutdown Switch. Also, on my existing 10-year old SMA based PV system, when the old inverter dies, as a "repair" i should be able to replace it with a new SMA with SPS without having to meet the new requirement for rapid shutdown. I've been a fan of SMA products for a long time, but I have experienced so much frustration with installing the RSD and I'm not at all impressed with SMA's Power Plus technology. Why can't they implement rapid shutdown without all that extra hardware and wiring???
Can you elaborate on the concept of " SMA Secure Power Supply feature"
I am specifically interested in understanding how to enable my grid-tied system to "disconnect" from the grid and run during the daylight (relying on generators for night) without a huge expense or the need for batteries.
@@ToolTimeTabor You are asking about a feature of the SMA SunnyBoy string inverter from 5 Years ago which had limited 'off-grid' capability to provide up to 2000 watts through a separate outlet tied to the inverter which needed to be switched ON when Grid power was out. The power available at this special outlet was limited to whatever was being generated by the solar panels up to 2kW. If a cloud appears, that power can be reduced significantly and if the load is too much, the power is interrupted. This is not a solution for powering your home off-grid. It's only good for powering a few small loads when the sun is shining. Furthermore, this feature is incompatible with module level rapid shutdown, a code requirement in most jurisdictions which made Secure Power Supply obsolete a few years after it was released. If you want to have practical home power during an outage YOU NEED BATTERY STORAGE period.
@@marcfontana1454 Great feedback. Thanks.
Thank You Amy, you answered the question I was searching for.
Is the reason that the inverter/charger needs to be 20% bigger than the grid-tied inverter so that there is no clipping of power to the inverter/charger? or is it because the inverter-charger will blow the magic smoke and fry the unit?
The reason to oversize it is that with AC coupling, you are backfeeding power through the inverter/charger's AC output, which is not how it was originally intended to be used. Oversizing by 20% is a general rule of thumb, but it's always best to check with the inverter/charger's manual or manufacturer to make sure AC coupling is supported by the inverter/charger and, if so, how much capacity it can handle from the grid-tied inverter.
I got my Fronius Primo very quickly. I am waiting on an electrical parts supplier to open to install it because I have to buy a manual disconnect switch because of the contract with our power company, but it looks really nice. We got it mounted today. I would think the knob on the bottom would work for that, and it has a lock, also required, but the contract says it takes the kind with a lever, blah blah blah, from what it seems.
It is common for the grid provider to require an additional lock-out switch. For a 7.6kW inverter, you need at least a 40A non-fusible switch gear disconnect. The one we generally sell with it is the SquareD DU222RB 60A. www.altestore.com/store/enclosures-electrical-safety/switch-gear-disconnects/switch-gear-disconnects-ac/square-d-du222rb-60a-240vac-unfused-disconnect-2-pole-p8729/
@@AltEStore Thanks, I will likely order one at the end of the week. Lowe's didn't have any.
Thank you Amy! My Mother (84 at the time) bought an Enphase microverter system in 2014 they never explained to her that she wouldn't have power if the grid went down! The solar company was paid $40k to install 40 panels monitor and service! Six months in the system failed the solar company knew but never informed us or service the system! Mom paid a true up bill in 2015 without questioning why there was a bill of $1500 she had to pay likewise she never informed me of course I would have gone ballistic since this was the type of thing the system was to help us avoid! My Mother passed away last December and in October of 2017 I found out about the true up bill having received another for $7k+ as it was being disconnected! That's when I called the solar company, who told me they can't check out the system without being connected to the grid, that is how I found out about grid tie! Swearing I would not be caught again with my pants down I set about trying to find a way that I can go pseudo off grid!tSince then I have been running a portable generator my intro to generating power through the use of an alternator (undersized won't fire the HVAC) 9k generator gas $55 dollars a day converting to tri fuel am getting ready to buy standby generator 22K am also going to invest in batteries and another inverter for AC coupling as well as the required pieces such as an ATS, critical load panel, batteries etc. I'm suing the solar company for breach of contract as well as for fleecing the elderly, as I found the same system, including the permits for $20k ! Installers spent 2 days on my roof breaking 100+ tiles and not reimbursing us for them, they used the extra tiles we had allotted for the pool house to be roofed at a later date! $20k for an installation and a failed one at that! Is there any idiosyncrasies that Enphase systems employ that I should be wary of? I know they offer batteries even if Enphase says differently, though they advertise them on their website! I have tried to get the information that you provided from them for a couple of months now! They agree the Solar company is at fault but even with that they are stingy with the desired info needed to engineer my way out of this predicament! I will pay to add equipment before I pay for something caused by the negligence of a party paid to avoid such things!
What a nightmare. It infuriates us when we hear of dishonest solar installers taking advantage of people and giving the good installers a bad name. The Enphase battery systems are not available yet in the US. You can do AC Coupling with the system to turn it into an off grid system if you wanted, but that would take a big battery bank. Give us a call and talk to one the the technical sales reps here to discuss options.
The AC coupled system inverters don't seem to distinguish between solar power and grid power, to charge batteries. I only want my batteries to charge from solar unless I choose to override. Is there an AC system that can do this? Hybrid inverters inverters can but they are a version of DC coupled.
The easiest way to make sure your batteries charge from solar is to wire your system with a DC solar charge controller. If you have to AC-couple, you will be using one of the hybrid inverter's AC connections for Grid and one for AC-In from the solar PV inverter. You can usually program your inverter to only charge using the AC-In so that no grid power is used for the batteries.
The largest battery in the world is in South Australia it can theoretically supply a tiny 100MW of power for 75 minutes (when new its total capacity is 129 MWH). In the event of cyclonic weather South Australia can be without significant sunlight and usable wind for up to 10 days. The state uses 34,087 MWH/day so the worlds largest battery (assuming it's full capacity was available, which it isn't) would be theoretically able to support the state for 5.45 minutes before being completely discharged. For a 10 days weather event for normal supply to the customers the state would require 340,870 MWH, bearing in mind the states target of 75% renewables for that period it would have mechanical generating capacity of 85,217 MWH so the shortfall would be 255,652 MWH. That would suggest a requirement for 1981 Tesla batteries. That is why the idea of using Tesla batteries for a back up power solution is so ridiculous.
We are big fans of distributed power instead of centralized. That allows each house to have a small battery bank to handle their critical loads independently, rather than a huge central one owned by the power company. Tesla batteries really aren't meant for off-grid or even battery back-up. They are intended more for self-consumption, where you just store your solar power for a few hours to use later in the day when the sun goes down and your loads go up. There are many types of batteries that are great for a distributed solar system with battery backup, including the good ol' lead acid and LiFePO4 batteries. Not everything circles around around Tesla.
If a person bought a solar array this year and bought a battery back up system next year, would they still be able to receive the Fed. tax rebate for the batteries next year?
how about adding an off grid pure sine wave inverter that can charge a battery from the grid which I think is not expensive than a DC coupler?
That is AC coupling, and is discussed in the video.
Thanks .
Well explained .
Thanks to Alte for helpful video and tutorials. I wonder if you have a video or tutorial shows how a grid-tied battery system connect to the grid? What is the required equipment (fuses, switches, boxes, meters etc.) and how should be done the connections?
That is an excellent suggestion, I will add it to my list. Most inverters will have details in their installation manual, but I will absolutely make a video discussing it. Meanwhile, you can see a good example from the Schneider XW+ Install manual. i.imgur.com/p0Wn7vf.png
Hii, Ammy , I m Savita from india , wants to join your team overseas .Can i ?? .M passionate bout solar plants .
I admire your knowledge n Wants to learn a lot from you .
Savitaa Gahlot
you Spoke engilsh?
@@JSmith-wy3yh yes
I feel, the power output is limited by the house annual usage. mostly, need 10kWh battery for critical load, and 30kWh+ for the full load. If use a lithium system, the power will be a not a limit. The most problem in AC Coupling system, when battery has fully discharged by longer disaster, it can not be recovered by itself when sunny. To overcome, need an extra small 1-2 panel DC system. MPPT charger with 1~2 solar panels. in ordinary day, extra panel will charge the battery and supply some DC utility power, if more than enough, it will be sell into grid if use hybrid battery inverter such as XW pro, so, never waste. and safety back-up all.
I'm still stuck on the part when the grid is UP but, your solar power isn't enought to power the whole load of house. So will AC and Solar combine? is it GRID or SOLar, or is is GRIND AND SOLAR at the same time. if so, then where does this simultanous even occcur
Yes, a good way to think about it is the solar is offsetting some of the load draw. So the effect is that less power is needed from the grid!
hi, we have installed a 10 Kw solar power system with mono perc PVs supported by an on grid 3 phase inverter of 10 Kw with efficiency of 98.7 % by we are getting only 50% generated wattage. I believe we should get minimum of 80% wattage generation as per our electrical design when all the parameters tilt angle, sunlight etc , are well in place. can you please guide us why we are getting only 50% generated wattage instead of 80% generated wattage.
Great video I'm curious I have a grid-tied inverter but its range is 36 volts however all of my panels are 41 volts is there a way to lower the voltage on the panels so they can meet the range of the grid-tied inverter and I can start using it thank you
I have 4 of these same types of types of tigrids and verters but nowhere can I find on how much amps can run through these machines we know how much voltage can run but how much amps can you put through these machines I want to know if I can take a 48 voteight 8 vote battery called Reynold rhino from big batteries Which has 276 AH Is that too much amp hours or is this OK I can't find in the destructions or any TH-cam videos to tell the capability on how much amperage can run through these machines. 🌞 sun Tie grid inverters 1000w
Great Video... what is the solution for all solaredge inverters (not the se7600) to have backup battery without changing the inverter or wiring ?
ArtGreen Construction A.C. coupling is the best option for SolarEdge. Depend9on the size of your grid-tie inverter, the Schneider XW+ could be the perfect solution for up to 6800W.
Searching all over internet finally got it. I have 3 questions.
I have a 2kva 2 X150ah battery sign wave home ups through which all medium load equipments are powered. We don't have buy back facilities of electricity. In summer hectic power cut also.
1) I don't want to throw away my old inverter, to power it up which type of solar inverter i should select micro inverter or string type or power optimizer type and of what capacity.
2) my ups is with microcontroller and transformer so will it take current from solar inverter through its out put instead of through input as you discussed if it is an AC coupling to charge battery. If not any way to make it happened? Or atleast do manage live load.
3) how I manage over charging issue and low load and high production issue which even lead to total repair of both inverters?
Very informative video great job. What I'm thinking at this point is it would be cheaper and less complicated to convert my entire house to DC than play around with all this garbage. I'm sorta kidding but sorta not kidding.
Hello. your video is very interesting. I would like to know if it is possible to use a pure sine wave converter 12v 220-240v instead of a hybrid inverter. thank you very much.
I have question, if grid no power. can i use UPS pure sine share with grid tie inverter.
Wow..... at last a really good, informative & detailed video on the subject; thank you. I liked it so much that I'm now downloading it for another viewing off-line, when the aspirin that I've just needed has dealt with the headache all that information has just caused - lol.
Could I ask a question please? I'm currently trying to do almost exactly what your video is based upon. I currently have a grid-tied 5.75 kwp system in the UK, running through a SMA SB4000-20 TL inverter. I now have a new Sunny Island 6.0 'hybrid?' inverter & 4x 12v = 48v 220ah VLSR/AGM batteries ready to connect up. Just found that I needed a SMA Energy Monitor & I ordered one of those earlier today. If or when I get this all connected & up & running, it should provide flexible storage, but still grid-tied. So my 2nd step would be to purchase an Automatic Transfer Switch, to comply with UK safety regulations, to make my little system fully independent & functional in a blackout situation.
a). Could you recommend a couple of reasonably priced Automatic Transfer Switches please, as these are really expensive here in the UK.
b). I currently have a couple of old Immersun units (now available as MyEnergi Eddi) that I wired in myself some years ago, & they are brilliant. However I know they can put great strain on transformers (& cause them to fail because they utilise pulse technology) & my new Sunny Island unit probably has a transformer in it. Where should I connect my Immersun units relative to the Sunny Island connection & to my home breaker box or mains grid input to avoid potential damage?
Thank you in anticipation of your answers, JohnnyK.
I'm glad you liked the video, but sorry I can't be more helpful with details for your installation. We don't have many UK customers, so don't deal with your local codes or products. I did find an SMA manual that I believe would be very helpful for you. files.sma.de/downloads/SI-SBS-Backup-PL-en-26.pdf
I've previously studied SolarEdge's hodgepodge of documentation, and it suggests that its grid-tied inverter supports a “export” / “feed-in” limitation feature (and hopefully similar functionality exists from other vendors). The intended purpose of such functionality appears to be for not running afoul of utility feed-in limits, but it seems like this might also be a way of adjusting the output of the solar array in an AC-coupled system to suit the battery bank and loads during a grid outage. That might mitigate the listed 'con' of AC-coupled systems having to artificially oversize the battery bank in order to match the solar array. Such an approach also seems far preferable than the current 'all-or-nothing' approach of MagnaSine's method of signaling the inverter on or off by adjusting the line voltage frequency. However, the devil would be in the details on making such an integration work; are you aware of anyone attempting such a system?
The question that comes to mind would be what would trigger that throttle when switching over to coupled? They do have their StorEdge unit that would make a lot of this easier, but that doesn't help folks who already have a system installed. There was supposed to be a retrofit kit, but I believe they are not providing that now. Inverter manufacturers are seeing the light and most are adding battery capability to future models, although most of them seem more focused on Time of Use and Self Consumption than battery backup. So for now, hodgepodge is the perfect word.
Thanks for the response. As I see it... Option A: I saw a SolarEdge HD inverter menu option to set a maximum inverter power output. If an equivalent ModBus control existed for this menu parameter, then larger solar array could be temporarily capped as needed to work with a more modest MagnaSine (or similar) AC-coupled battery system for critical loads. Option B: to leverage the "export" / "feed-in" feature, the SolarEdge inverter expects a WattNode meter to measure current on each of the (split) phases (to judge export power). Ideally, the MagnaSine would report more nuanced feedback than its present 'all-or-nothing' implementation, and this feedback would be returned as WattNode measurements to dynamically tailor the inverter output. Alas, all of this is just theory and is fraught with potential 'gotchas'.
Do you have any line drawings and component layout such as would be needed for an AC coupled system that is using a Solaredge SE11400US with a 15.2 kW array?
That's a tricky one. You need to have the battery based inverter bigger than the grid tied inverter, so you would need to have multiple inverters stacked. Let me check with a couple of manufacturers to see if they recommend doing that or not.
Wow, well stated. I've been researching a lot of this topic and I have yet to find one that simplifies it so I can understand it. I have a solar edge system so I need an AC coupled system. Easy. One question though, you said the charging with the AC coupled system is more ... twitchy, for lack of a better word. Is it still safe? Does it still work effectively? Can you explain it a bit more? Thanks!
Hey every early morning my grid tied system inverter lights is green, as the day goes clearer it turns red!!! Can Anyone here have any ideas why this happens? Seems like the sun activates the red light.
I have 10 solar panels 100w each and the inverter is a 1000 W grid tie inverter
Thanks
Hi Amy nice videos..lots of information!
I can seem to find the video you made with the Solar Edge Storedge on batteries.
Sorry. SolarEgde changed their StorEdge so much from when I recorded it, it was very out of date. It's on my list to do a new updated one. If you do want to watch it knowing some things are not up to date, you should be able to see it here, th-cam.com/video/WJzYQIMTAq8/w-d-xo.html .
I have a a 20 panel SolarWorld 255 system with Enphase M215 microinverters and would like to like to add a battery backup to it. It sounds like a AC coupled solution would work. We have a fridge, freezer, and oil boiler with forced hot heater heat. While on vacation in January our whole house load varied between 11 and 18 kWh per day (only the above listed and 1 cfl light on). What would you suggest?
Hello ma'am., Need one help ma'am.
Want to know about anti-islanding.,please explain ma'am.
We need better batteries for this to be feasible for everyone.
Amy - you made mention of a StorEdge video within this one and yet I cannot find that video within your altE library. I'm assuming you've recorded it and perhaps just haven't posted it yet? I'm asking as I am pretty interested in that inverter for my planned future DIY solar project. It sounds like a great way to get the grid-tied portion of the project up and running and then expand into battery storage when the funds allow. Thanks for the clarification!
You caught me. I had done one, but then they changed the product so much it made my video out of date, so I disabled it. It is on my short list to do a new updated video. Thanks for keeping me honest, I'll be sure to get it done soon. Meanwhile, you can check out the product here, www.altestore.com/store/inverters/hybrid-inverters/solaredge-storedge-76kw-high-power-inverter-p40810/
I need this video needs to be updated (due to hybrid /etc) but thanks for the diagrams
i have an solaredge 4000HD wave inverter....
i have 4600 WP solar panels
wich inverter do you prefer to use? for AC-coupling
thank you
Either a Schneider XW+6048 or a Magnum Energy MSPAE-4448 would be great options. www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/schneider-electric-xw-plus-inverterchargers-p40562/#XANXW6848 or www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/3000-to-7000-watts/magnum-energy-mspae-4448-4400-watt-48v-invertercharger-p8110/
Instead of an "inverter/charger" can one use a "converter/charger"?
?
I'm researching a battery for the new 8kw system to run a 5kw air conditioner of a night time during the 6 hot months.
I had hybrid solar inverter that i can switch on/off the battery function and still running even the battery is switch off
Would prefer to use my Hybrid's Battery
V2H controller?
That gets a bit complicated. I'm not an EV expert, so anyone else, please chime in. My understanding for most systems is it is simply an AC to DC charger for the car. So if the grid goes out, so does your charger. I'm assuming the V2H controller has an inverter to convert the high voltage car battery to 120/240VAC for your home. If so, that may be able to be the battery based inverter tricking the grid tied inverter into staying on. If you have any details about your particular system, that could help.
Hey guys any solar generators
Love this video. Probably the best I have seen on DC vs AC coupling. I do have a question since I have a unique situation. I have an existing GT system with a SMA Sunny boy 7.7 and I am wanting to add a 2nd array with battery backup system that will continue to export excess once batteries are charged. I was curious how you would recommend integrating? I have been looking at some batteries but they state that they are AC coupled batteries with built-in inverters. I know that AC coupling is less efficient. But if my current set up is better suited for AC coupling, then that’s the route I will take. Your thoughts? Thank you in advance.
Buy a "True Hybrid" Inverter would solve them all automatically with minimum wires, breakers and get more efficient energy.. The only problem is that we can't yet combine solar & Wind power together in a system, since no inverters in the market could handle both input at the same time yet. However, by AC Coupling a Solar Hybrid Inverter and a Wind GT Inverter injected to the same grid would probably work perfectly..
What Battery inverter I need with micro inverter grid tied solar system ?
Micro inverter grid tied is max 45kwh a day . battery back up is going to be lithium battery 100kwh What Battery inverter I need ?
does it only work as a backup or can I have the batteries giving me electricity during night time? I know there are hybrid inverters that would heat the water out of battery but what about the whole house?
It all depends on how you configure the system, and what you choose to power off the battery bank. If you try to power your whole house off the battery at night, you will likely need a fairly big battery bank. But yes, it is possible.
@@AltEStore thank you for the info!
@@AltEStore how much batteries would you say would be needed for a typical avarage household? I'm not looking for a specific number, just an example
Thank you, outstanding presentation.
The stand-alone solar power system.
A lot of material on the subject is already in place:
@t
Subjects of interest:
-The DC, much more reliable for off-grid dwellings generally, and for
our Islands and Areas of Light particularly...
-Voltage Standardization of DC Distribution System for Residential
Buildings
-The 'return' of DC (direct current)
-The DC (direct current) 'nano-grid' - a more reliable solution for
Areas and Islands of Light
-DC (direct current) Appliances
-The Ufer Grounding, a more preferable and more reliable electrical
earth grounding for our Areas and Islands of Light.
If you're going to buy a large hybrid inverter for use with batteries, why don't you just replace your grid-tied inverter with it?
GOOD INFORMATION AND KEEP IT UP. IF ANY FEEDBACK REQUIRED WELCOME
Is there such a thing as a grid tied inverter charger? Both options seem VERY expensive when there is a very nice two phase inverter sitting inside a 5KW SunnyBoy. I can't believe no engineer has addressed the power outage issue. This is VERY LOW hanging fruit my friends!!!
all my thanks to you please can you explaine to me how to determinate voltage system in PV off grid system 12V or 24V or 48V it mean that we compare the peak power by the interval of 12,24,48V while somme peoples compar the daly total power of loads. i give to you a simple example witch resume the proplem; i have a led projector of 500w when it works 2 hours per day we need voltage systeme = 12v but if it works 20 hours per day we need voltage system = 48V can you correct me this please because i feel that i have right 99% .???? all the respect
Because most batteries have a limit to the number of parallel strings, a bigger battery bank generally needs to be built with a higher voltage. For example, if you have 12V 100Ah, 1200Wh batteries that want to be limited to 3 strings, if you need 3600Wh bank, you can do 12V, as 3 of the batteries will be enough. But if you have more loads, so you need 12 batteries, you can do a 48V battery bank with 4 of the batteries in series, and 3 strings in parallel. If you tried to do 12 batteries at 12V, they would all need to be in parallel, which most batteries cannot do.
So yes, in your example, you need 1,000Wh for 2 hours, and 10,000Wh for 20 hours. So your battery bank would have to be bigger for 20 hours, requiring more batteries, and a higher voltage bank would be better.
Always informative 👍
do you have a video on conecting from the Radian 4048 outback inverter strait to the braeker box?
I don't yet, but am working on one. Meanwhile, look at the install manual, page 39. www.altestore.com/static/datafiles/Others/GS_8048A_4048A_InstallationManual.pdf The Grid goes to a 30A dual pole breaker in your main breaker box, preferably in the bottom corner, furthest away from the main breaker (the manual says 50A, but that is for a 8048). The AC Out goes to a 30A dul pole breaker at the input of a Critical Loads breaker box. That's where you move all of your critical loads to be powered by the battery bank when the grid goes out. When the grid is up, the inverter's internal transfer switch just passes it all through to the main breaker box and the grid. (4000W / 240V x 1.25 = 20.8A, so round up to the next available size)
i am going 100% off grid, my area was hit hard by hurricane Maria, i have 16-260 watts solar panels , 4048 radian outback inverter , outback MPPT FM-80 charge controller and a midnite 6 circuit combiner box, with 8 Trace 235 amp hrs batteries , what size of a breaker do i use in my breaker panel and i need 40 feet of wire to my panel box from my inverter, what size wire do i run? the installation manual shows the GSLC BOX that my inverter did not come with,
Steve, our thoughts are with you folks. We've been shipping solar equipment down there as fast as we can. 4000W / 240V x 1.25 (NEC requirement) = 20.8A, so round up to 25 or 30A 2-pole breaker, whatever you can get that fits in your breaker box. The inverter installation manual recommends 8AWG wire. That is plenty big for that distance with only about 1% voltage drop.
thank you.
can the out back flex 80 handel 4,160 watts of solar panels 16 -260 watt panels in groups 0f 4 ?
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
Give me some inverter and battery options and tell me why. I already know everything you talked about in this video. I need a simple solution like SMA Sunny Boy Storage. If you tell me when that would be available in USA and what batteries I can use with that, now that would be helpful.
mlg779 what do you have for a system now? There is no one size fits all solution, we'd need to know more about what you have before we can make any suggestions.
Kids, play nice.
I have a SMA 4000 tl-us and 3.1 Kw of panels and I installed it myself. I was looking at AC coupling with Schneider XW-6848 because it can do Lithium batteries and custom voltages, and the 3 panels of DC coupling with Midnite Kid charge controller(facing south east) just in case the batteries get depleted one night and the AC coupling would not be able to start in the morning; but this is too expensive and a lot of moving parts the reason I am looking for a cleaner solution, maybe SMA Sunny Boy Storage. and this would also be cheaper.
I'm attending a training on the SunnyBoy Storage today. I'll let you know when it will be available in USA. If they are doing trainings now, that says it will be soon. Stand by.
That would be nice. Thank you.
The hot tub is a critical load!
Only if you can also have the blender going.
i have 8 Trace 235AH 6V Deep Cycle Battery 48 volts and have the flexmax 80 can you tell me what are the charging voltage set points-current limit, absorb, float, absorb time limit, end amps and rebulk.?
I'll be honest, I'm not familiar with those batteries. I found 1 reference to them online, with not much for details. It looks like it is the same Trace who made inverters forever ago, and is now Xantrex/Schneider, so I'm thinking the batteries are very old, so there won't be much on them on the internet. So your best bet is to find similar battery's info and use that. Here is a link to Trojan T-105 which is very similar. Page 17 has the charging parameters. I would use those numbers. www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf
is the factory set parameters the same for the flexmax 80 close to the parameters i need for my Trace 235AH 6V Deep Cycle Battery ?
As you can see in the Outback FLEXmax 80 manual, the defaults are different. www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/flexmax_6080/owner_manual.pdf , page 99. Max current is defaulted to 80A, the battery (again, unable to find the Trace manual, basing on Trojan T-105) wants max current 13% of C/20 rate, 235Ah x 13% = 30A. Battery specs call for 2.45V absorb per cell, so that is 2.45V x 24 cells = 58.8V, default is 57.7V. Equalize from the battery is 2.7V x 24 cells = 64.8, defalt is 57.6. You can compare the rest yourself from the manuals.
i have 8, 6 volt batteries is that the same for the info you gave me?
The info I gave was for eight 6V batteries wired in series for 48V.
i am going 100% off grid, i have 16-260 watts solar panels , 4048 radian outback inverter , outback MPPT FM-80 charge controller and a midnite 6 circuit combiner box, with 8 Trace 235 amp hrs batteries , what is the best disconnect 250 amp DC breaker you sell and do you have a video on it.
You need more batteries for that size solar array. 260W x 16 = 4160W / 48V = 86A. The charge controller can output up to 80A. If you assume charging at even a C/6 rate, which is the absolute fastest you should charge (I'd prefer C/8), that is 80A x 6 = 480Ah battery bank. You have half that. You should have 16 batteries in 2 parallel strings of 8 for that size solar array. Have you made a loads list to see how much energy you need?
As for the breaker question, you only need a 175A breaker. Then you can use 2/0 cables. If you don't get the Outback GS Load Center designed for both the AC and DC breakers, I suggest you get a nice DC breaker box like the Midnite MiniDC175, that will let you also add the breakers for the charge controller. www.altestore.com/store/enclosures-electrical-safety/electrical-enclosures/disconnectload-enclosures/dc/midnite-solar-mndc175-mini-175-amp-dc-disconnect-p2415/
yes i am working on the other 8 more 235 amp hr batteries , i plan on staying under 5 Kwatts at night, and i get around 6 good hrs of sun here in Puerto Rico , 0% shade i am running everything energy saver
can you tell me how to turn my system on the first time, do you have a video ? i have a mate 3s
Products in a free market system is made for the market customer not the monopoly?
Great presentation, I will stick with a $700 generator and $20 gasoline for emergencies.
LOL. I'm right with you on that one. I am going to look about going the simpler route and purchasing at least 5K of solar panels - no batteries - and sell the surplus back to the utility. I'll still need a generator when I lose power but that normally is a rare event. Adding batteries and inverters - and I still can't power a heat pump? No thanks. Summer time in Charlotte, NC is hot and muggy. I have a 15KW generator converted to run on propane or gas - that is my backup....
nice explanation
The more I research the more complicated it seems!
Why can't we just have a grid tied system, have battery bank and when the grid goes down, shut off the main breaker at the meter to protect workers doing repairs? "When they find their round tuit"...
Because not everybody can be trusted to remember to turn off the breaker. One person forgetting can cause a lineman's death. Newer technology is coming out that will automatically measure the amount of energy your house is using, and will mat h the inverter output, so that regardless of how big your system is, it will not sell back when the grid is out. This will help achieve what you are looking for.
@@AltEStore thank you. I suppose an automatic transfer switch won't accomplish this either. It would jus transfer to grid power to batteries when low or no solar.
@@bobcole3852 A *Hybrid* Inverter certainly can automatically supply AC Power to the Critical Loads Panel when the Grid is down, without any human intervention ...
Hi Amy i want to know how many 100 watts solar panels i need to run a refrigerator 311 kwh
300W of solar and 460Ah 12V battery bank.
Thanks for this video.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you!
Nice solutions but I think I'm just going to use a $10 smart outlet and a regular $15 12V charger. I will set the battery bank charger to only charge during the day on the same circuit as the grid tie inverter. I will then hook up a simple DC to AC inverter and power my loads with that.
That's fine if your are just trying to charge a small 12V battery to charge your phone and maybe power an LED DC light, and the power is only out for a short time. The system we are talking about is to provide large backup to your fridge, furnace blower, well pump; much larger loads than the UPS you are talking about. This can use your solar system to recharge the battery bank if the power is out for days (or weeks or months). Two different solutions for two very different scenarios.
I don't need to worry about heating and cooling because I'm going to install a geothermal heat exchange, so all the power needed is for the circulating pump for the liquid and a fan to move air over the radiator. I can't wait to fire the electric company.
but batteries are not eco friendly
The solar don't make power!! They use power!!
The added costs for a battery backup system to the solar panels hardly seems worth it. Unless you're losing power frequently, just buy a good dual fuel genny.
This video is intended for people who do lose power often, or who do not have easy access to fuel for a generator. There is a huge need for this in the islands that got destroyed by the hurricanes. They are spending hours each day and a fortune on fuel, 6 months later, trying to keep their generators running.
👍👍💖
Rip.
I'll never understand why anyone would make that kind of investment into off grid equipment and still be grid tied I will never understand this??!!🤨🙄
Puerto Rico lost power for over 6 months, and had no fuel for generators. Here in the northeast we lose it for weeks in freak ice storms. A generator isn't always the best solution.
@Norris Brock
- Because Daily Cycling of a large battery bank is very expensive, while Grid Power is very CHEAP for daily power. The battery bank and / or generator is best for power outages only
She is spewing a load of BS
You make something simple very complicated, you don't know how to explain.
*Talking bad about the competition is not professional.
Will be better to do one set up off grid, period.
Need to concentrate on the speech and information one day ahead, two hours before the shooting of the video study the content, because you are kind of lost between parts of the video, lack of confidence.