This was a good insightful show, and I'm praising God for the biblical faithfulness seen in those interviewed and the many similarly behind them, and their wisdom as they assess and give advice about well-meaning attendance by evangelicals! One small criticism, in love, of a number of my Anglican brothers and sisters: too few times do I hear rubuke being as outrightly forceful as the Bible has of "FALSE TEACHERS", those who are... "WOLVES." Can they just be clearly called for what they are, even if it angers them? CLEAR words are needed, the olive branch comes after repentence. The sheep need protecting and warning by the under-shepherds of Jesus' church; it should not be Anglican to pussy-foot around and neglect forcefully calling people out with all the biblical force & clarity that we have to weild appropriately. The leader mentioned in this podcast have not just broken communion, or acted inappropriately, they are wolves who are devouring people. Biblical repentence for a leader would include the leader (even an Archbishop) humbly stepping down to learn in humble submission to the biblical teaching of the Pastors/Elders or Minister of the church (ie. not just changing course or back-tracking on a decision because it was unpopular).
I believe that disassociating and breaking fellowship and speaking against is a clear way of calling them false teachers. In previous episodes last year they were very clear that they are against the new teaching and blessings the church of England now gives. I hope the goal isn't to get them to use specific words but rather to understand the idea behind their actions of leaving and speaking out against.
@vincentmothapa2421 thanks for your reply. Those things you mentioned are right responses, but without concrete words and warnings they *can* sometimes come across as "we're breaking fellowship... hint hint, nudge nudge... (you know what we mean)." *Doing things* like breaking fellowship is necessary, but does not always clearly communicate that it is "false teaching/teachers" - spell it out explicitly what we are saying and warn God's people. There are good, warning & horror-inducing biblical words and we shouldn't "beat around the bush" but instead use them to communicate clearly. I daresay you would agree with much of what I have said, and me with your post too brother.
@@daveyo8221 Indeed I do agree with what you have said. I think this platform has been very clear when discussing this topic previously and they have vocally spoken out against all that is happening in England. I've been listening since last year (or the previous year, I can't remember) so I'm aware of the context behind this video, although maybe a summary could have been given here for those who might only now be aware of it (not necessarily you but anyone who might only be discovering the channel and topic now). I just wanted to clarify that I don't think they are going soft, they have been very vocal about this and have been discussing this a lot and speaking out against it and sending out warnings, and then finally parted ways
@@vincentmothapa2421 - Yes I agree, those on Pastor's Heart have been vocal and clear for a long time (I am an avid listener!). No, they are not going "soft" (that would be the wrong word) yet at the same time there is in my opinion an unhelpful English-ism by even some guests, where the warnings are muted by softer language than is warranted (see my original post), and so false teachers, and in particular God's people are sometimes not warned as sharply as is needed. The Reformers were FAR stronger in language, and there are times for this (though the Reformers sometimes messed this up too). Or Biblically - Jude for instance uses different language to speak about the destiny of and how to view & treat false teachers in v4-17, than he does in how to treat those wavering etc, v22-23. Jude and Paul do not hold back (gosh no!) from vivid and bitingly sharp words for the first category, and at times publically in a certain manner toward those like Peter when the gospel was at stake. There are a host of reasons for today's often muted language in the COE world, some reasons probably necessary, but I am not persuaded that SOME reasons are based on fear of man (inc. fearing difficulty with leaders or loss of church, or fear of being seen as "unloving" by those outside the church (I have heard this!)) rather than right fear of God. Or perhaps a lack of fiery, passionate zeal for God's glory & honour, and for Christ's body/church. Numbers 25:1-13 should not only point forward to Christ's zealousness (and atonement etc) but provoke us too (though obviously not in the exact same way in the new covenant). Not perhaps as much by those on Pastor's Heart, but by many I have heard speak elsewhere and have spoken to, there is (in my opinion) a misunderstanding of the role of Church discipline, how it must happen, or even the point/stage at which a Church disciplinary process should be at in the process (ie, the errant leader is likely not still at step 1 in Matt 18 or Paul's letters etc). Ex-COE Rico Tice from memory spoke to this lack of discipline recently. Brother, do hear me though praise God for The Pastor's Heart, such a wonderful ministry, and with great clarity and pastoral insight on COE issues (let alone other issues!), and in so many general pastoral areas I am learning so much from them. No, they are clearly not "soft"!
Encouraging to hear such good faithful people holding to scripture.
God Bless from a Presbyterian in Ireland.
Well said.
This was a good insightful show, and I'm praising God for the biblical faithfulness seen in those interviewed and the many similarly behind them, and their wisdom as they assess and give advice about well-meaning attendance by evangelicals!
One small criticism, in love, of a number of my Anglican brothers and sisters: too few times do I hear rubuke being as outrightly forceful as the Bible has of "FALSE TEACHERS", those who are... "WOLVES." Can they just be clearly called for what they are, even if it angers them? CLEAR words are needed, the olive branch comes after repentence. The sheep need protecting and warning by the under-shepherds of Jesus' church; it should not be Anglican to pussy-foot around and neglect forcefully calling people out with all the biblical force & clarity that we have to weild appropriately. The leader mentioned in this podcast have not just broken communion, or acted inappropriately, they are wolves who are devouring people.
Biblical repentence for a leader would include the leader (even an Archbishop) humbly stepping down to learn in humble submission to the biblical teaching of the Pastors/Elders or Minister of the church (ie. not just changing course or back-tracking on a decision because it was unpopular).
I believe that disassociating and breaking fellowship and speaking against is a clear way of calling them false teachers. In previous episodes last year they were very clear that they are against the new teaching and blessings the church of England now gives.
I hope the goal isn't to get them to use specific words but rather to understand the idea behind their actions of leaving and speaking out against.
@vincentmothapa2421 thanks for your reply. Those things you mentioned are right responses, but without concrete words and warnings they *can* sometimes come across as "we're breaking fellowship... hint hint, nudge nudge... (you know what we mean)." *Doing things* like breaking fellowship is necessary, but does not always clearly communicate that it is "false teaching/teachers" - spell it out explicitly what we are saying and warn God's people. There are good, warning & horror-inducing biblical words and we shouldn't "beat around the bush" but instead use them to communicate clearly. I daresay you would agree with much of what I have said, and me with your post too brother.
@@daveyo8221 Indeed I do agree with what you have said.
I think this platform has been very clear when discussing this topic previously and they have vocally spoken out against all that is happening in England.
I've been listening since last year (or the previous year, I can't remember) so I'm aware of the context behind this video, although maybe a summary could have been given here for those who might only now be aware of it (not necessarily you but anyone who might only be discovering the channel and topic now).
I just wanted to clarify that I don't think they are going soft, they have been very vocal about this and have been discussing this a lot and speaking out against it and sending out warnings, and then finally parted ways
@@vincentmothapa2421 - Yes I agree, those on Pastor's Heart have been vocal and clear for a long time (I am an avid listener!). No, they are not going "soft" (that would be the wrong word) yet at the same time there is in my opinion an unhelpful English-ism by even some guests, where the warnings are muted by softer language than is warranted (see my original post), and so false teachers, and in particular God's people are sometimes not warned as sharply as is needed. The Reformers were FAR stronger in language, and there are times for this (though the Reformers sometimes messed this up too).
Or Biblically - Jude for instance uses different language to speak about the destiny of and how to view & treat false teachers in v4-17, than he does in how to treat those wavering etc, v22-23. Jude and Paul do not hold back (gosh no!) from vivid and bitingly sharp words for the first category, and at times publically in a certain manner toward those like Peter when the gospel was at stake.
There are a host of reasons for today's often muted language in the COE world, some reasons probably necessary, but I am not persuaded that SOME reasons are based on fear of man (inc. fearing difficulty with leaders or loss of church, or fear of being seen as "unloving" by those outside the church (I have heard this!)) rather than right fear of God. Or perhaps a lack of fiery, passionate zeal for God's glory & honour, and for Christ's body/church. Numbers 25:1-13 should not only point forward to Christ's zealousness (and atonement etc) but provoke us too (though obviously not in the exact same way in the new covenant).
Not perhaps as much by those on Pastor's Heart, but by many I have heard speak elsewhere and have spoken to, there is (in my opinion) a misunderstanding of the role of Church discipline, how it must happen, or even the point/stage at which a Church disciplinary process should be at in the process (ie, the errant leader is likely not still at step 1 in Matt 18 or Paul's letters etc). Ex-COE Rico Tice from memory spoke to this lack of discipline recently.
Brother, do hear me though praise God for The Pastor's Heart, such a wonderful ministry, and with great clarity and pastoral insight on COE issues (let alone other issues!), and in so many general pastoral areas I am learning so much from them. No, they are clearly not "soft"!
I left the C of E and now attend a Free Evangelical Church
I'm an English Anglican, ashamed of the lack of fidelity and muddled thinking being shown by all too many leaders of the Church in my country.