Destiny 2 Lore - The Ahamkara & The Nine. Did they make a bargain to transform Venus?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2023
- Reduce eye strain with Gamer Advantage's gaming frames. Use code BYF at checkout for 10% off at gameradvantage.com/?ref=BYF Destiny 2's Lore and Story tells us that the Ahamkara and the Nine might've made a bargain. The exact nature of this deal is unclear, but it appears to have something to do with the transformation of Venus, which was the inciting incident behind The Great Hunt.
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Girls go to college to get more knowledge, boys go to Venus…
To fight in glorious battles against the legendary ahamkhara, right?
Pea nits
@@submachinegun5737is that what kids are calling it now adays
@@Dontdoit_Yeah kids are weird
To get more degreenus?
Hello! The physicist in the wild mentioned, here! lmao
As far as it goes and as much as it is required to explain what the nine is, you've presented what dark matter is as a concept in a very succint and digestable manner! Very good :D
I’m not a physicist but as someone pretty well-versed in astrophysics, I agree with @lunalvarocha5183.
But to clarify a bit: the main property of dark matter is literally that we can’t see it. So it’s not “dark” as in related to Darkness, it’s just matter that is hidden to us because, as Byf stated, it doesn’t interact with itself or other matter, nor the electromagnetic field (e.g. radio waves and visible light). It only presents itself through gravitational forces.
Beat me to it! Chemist (near-finished with a minor in physics) here, and I was gonna give him the same props on his description. I love seeing people not in the sciences display some understanding of deep topics within said sciences ❤
In the same boat, but Astronomy/Physics.
Science side of things, I think far too much time has been spent on Dark Matter and Dark Energy when application of Relativity appears to be a much cleaner solution to the gravity issues that appear.
@@chozo_progeny7570 Well said!!
@@robmartin4775 Agreed, its been mostly shots in the dark, though very good ones but the lack of any extra possible info due to the nature of how hard it is to even approach it makes for quite a lot of roaming in circles in my eyes. An echo chamber of sorts, still, hoping for any and all new discoveries!
Arright, upon your prompting I reread the Dust lore book, and found one thing exceedingly noteworthy. During the final entry of that lorebook, "The Witch", Lavinia finds herself adrift as dust ("Lavinia perceives, without emotion, that she now exists as a structure of dark dust, a sandstorm blowing against itself.") presumably in Nine space. She is found by an individual calling itself Nasaya, one of the many former names of the current Emissary of the Nine, warning Lavinia that she is not safe. But before Lavinia can be wisked to safety, she is abducted by... something with many needle-like descriptors, and reconstituted somewhere else, whereupon she is greeted by a person claiming to be the witch who proclaimed her lucky upon her birth (a recurring Thing in this lorebook) who offers her tea in a bone teacup. Where have we seen a witch with needles and bone teasets? I must, regretfully, point you towards... *heavy sigh* Truth to Power. Dûl Incaru is introduced to us having literally injected herself into the Vex choose-your-own-adventure hallucination via a "long black needle" (Truth to Power 6 "Injection"), and after reading some Savathûn scripture to us (maybe), proceeds to offer us "poison in a fine tea set of Ahamkara bone".
Anyway, like with anything related to Truth to Power, I don't know if any of this is useful. But it certainly exists.
Ten years later and I usually like to think of myself as pretty well versed in Destiny lore, but I had no idea the Nine and the Ahamkara were connected. Very intriguing. Thank you lore daddy for the update.
Still disappointed that they seem to have retconned that the Nine were the nine members of the Exodus Green/Yang Liwei that didn't become Awoken.
Exodus Green had 900 crew + 40000 colonists in suspended animation, but "only" 40,891 were "Awoken" in the Distributary. It's possible for there to have been a few deaths between the launch of the ship and the their exit into the pocket dimension... but that's awfully suspicious.
Yeah I always think about that too. At this point it's basically a red herring, unless there is follow through. I mean isn't there an earlier lore entry that lists out several ideas of what the nine could be, including that one? I used to believe it was all options at once haha
Byf: “it reads as this:”
Ad: “LOOK AT THIS!”
One thing: dark matter isn't the "opposite" of normal matter (which would actually be antimatter). It's most likely just real matter that we can't see because it only interacts with gravity. "Dark" doesn't refer to the opposite of light, just that we can't see it. And so the Nine aren't really our opposites, but rather creatures built on our patterns of influence.
I think that the reason the nine became self-aware is because of the clashes between light and dark, the material and immaterial, paracausal physical manifestations crashing into paracausal emotion and thought driven power. If it were to be visualizes it would look like rain in a puddle every clash sending ripples, dissipating energys that have to go somewhere. Much like the nine the puddle does not exist without the constant down pour of water.
Originally, the Nine were the 9 'missing' members of the Exodus Green (900 crew + 40000 colonists in suspended animation) who weren't "Awoken" in the Distributary (40,891)... but various retcons have made it seem like the Nine have been there since before humans -- or at least before humanity expanded across the solar system to the 9 planets.
@@twiz66 i never said they were created by the light and dark conflicts. I said they became self-aware by them
In the trailer, 5 seconds in when we are looking at the wish wall, did anyone notice the 5 shapes next to Riven?
"Because there are factions among the Nine: one faction sent Xûr and Orin to study Guardians and the Light, to seek the secret of effect-without-cause and to protect the source of that secret, the last source, now that the Ahamkara are gone. Those five played at alchemy with the Cocytus gates, turning dark dust into energy and then into matter, but they could not unlock the secrets of our mad existence. They needed ambassadors. Go-betweens.
The other faction walks a different path. A path of folds and needles slipped through spacetime itself, existential syringes yielding new spaces, to be remade as the Nine desire. They have tried to gather enough dark dust in one place to form a black hole, and found it difficult: when the dark mass collapses in gravity's fist, the dust passes through itself and scatters.
But difficult is not impossible. And there is far, far more dark matter in the universe than bright. They will find a way to make new worlds of it. They will end their dependence on life, and on the Light of Guardians, which the falling veil will soon snuff out forever..."
(edit 22:24 read above)
"I am the door, I open unto the void. One day the masters will step forth. And then, you will know."
Illyn wandered between the two sides of three. The amulet around her neck marked Illyn as the coven’s mother, granting her visions beyond the veil, places only the Queen could go.
-
I am beyond happy you made this video and I haven't even watched it yet. I really want The Nine to be part of this mess, especially when we think back to Cocytus. All the talk of Orin in season of the deep left me itching at my skin for answers.
The nine are the coolest part of the lore imo and don't get nearly enough attention. Like most players aren't even aware the nine are the reason the Red War was even able to happen
@@orangesoda51414 nail and hammer. it makes me so sad we can't play red war anymore.
@@orangesoda51414would help if the campaign wasn’t sunset. Since it is new players don’t care about the red war.
@@ForTheViolence even more veteran players don't know about that lore, it wasn't ever told in a cinematic or dialogue that it was a few of the nine that let ghaul through our defenses. My friends didn't even know till I told them
@@orangesoda51414is there a byf or other video about this? Very cool , I did not know about this
Ahamkara on Venus. Vex on Venus. Ahamkara in Dreaming City, Quria looping Dreaming City. Vex time engines atrract paracausality?
CORRELATION????
I’m convinced the Nine are the lost colonists that went further in time than the Distributary, transcending our known reality.
Delusions are nice i guess
this video dismantles an old theory I used to have about that one guardian that went mad. in short my theory was that the nine and the ahamkara to some degree are aware that they are in a video game or are representative of the developers in some way. what the guardian saw would have been the real world.
I have a character in DnD that is convinced he exists in a simulation/game. He's a warlock of the old gods (the old gods being all of us at the player table).
“Dark matter tentacles….complexity of our lives and thoughts.” Derivatives of The Veil?
I hope we learn more about the Nine post Final Shape. With all that’s happened, the events of the last few years, the Nine, just like Savathun and the Vex, may be waiting for a victor to emerge, to become the Final Shape. Or simply, for the Withess to die, so the Nine can use the power vacuum to influence events that progress they’re agenda closer to becoming physical, and no longer relying on us. But I can’t help but wonder what happens to Xur or The Emmesary, their puppets that are their eyes, ears, hands, and mouths? What happens when the immaterial becomes, material and physical? Savathun would be the most likely to experiment on them, their lucid state of existence and influence, I feel, is something she’d be interested in.
And given than Lavinia's story ends with her being abducted by a _Witch_ , it is likely we may also find Savathun involved in the story at some point.
Gonna be a great season with some Byf narration!
I genuinely think we need a saga, or at the least an expansion year that's about the Nine
The lore surrounding the Nine is some of the best in all of Destiny, I would say, in that its got the best mix of bizarre cosmic horror of the unknown, but the most beautifully poetic too. Damn shame they got may have been relegated to just space game show operators.
Maybe. The way I see it, the Nine are dark matter given form and sentience. But they also could be what happened to each of our planets in Sol. Each planet touched and affected by Light and Dark. Nine passengers missing from the ship that Mara and the Awoken came from. Perhaps their life force ended up as dark matter, their memories gone, and hollowed out, only to ponder, and escape their plane of immaterial thought. To become real, as the celestial bodies they now inhabit. They are beyond the physical plane, and even beyond the Acendent Plane, or above it. Either way, only a few may be able to hear them, see them. If this theory holds true, what happened to one of the Nine when the Witness took them, scarred their body with time anomalies, and took them? The Nine have good reason to fear the Witness, yet two of the three of them are described as wishing to die and be erased. So that their miserable existence as a shadow on the physical world can end.
3:55 I got you Byf. In the most basic sense, dark matter is simply matter we can't see but can observe their gravitational effects. It is broken up into 3 major groups, they are neutrinos, weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPs), and massive compact halo objects (MCHOs).
Neutrinos are one of the products of nuclear fusion that occurs in stars and occurred during the Big bang, they are nearly massless particles that travel very close to the speed of light they do not interact with the coulomb force or magnetic force.
WIMPs are what their name suggest, they are massive particles, and like the neutrino they also do not interact with the coulomb forces or magnetic force. An important thing to note about the Coulomb force is that it is the force that prevents our feet from going through the ground, it is the force that is responsible for every single chemical reaction, and the coulomb force, the magnetic force, and gravity are the only 3 forces that interact with light, so an object that does not interact with the coulomb force or magnetic force is an object that is nearly invisible.
The final group of dark matter are the Massive compact halo objects (MCHOs). This group is made up of black holes, neutron stars, undiscovered planets, or any other celestial object that we haven't discovered yet. A fun example of a MCHO would be the fabled planet X (though I suppose it is now IX) if planet IX does exist, then until its discovery the planet is dark matter.
We do be needing more nine content
we really do need more content about the nine in game if we don't get it this season i'm betting next expac they're too big of a thing to just be ignored
Excellent, excellent video. Had no idea of the Nine using the Ahamkara on Venus.
I will honestly explode if Sjur is somehow found this season and about Mara's reaction, I would die instantly
Man the horn in the beginning always hits different.
I love destiny 1 ost. The entry to the series had me in awe the whole night on release day… it will always be the most nostalgic moment for me.
Also one of the best betas I’ve ever played.
If the Nine are existent in and of themselves BECAUSE of living things, because of matter, then just as they are a 'negative, of us, so too they must also have been a 'negative' of the Ahamkara, for were not Ahamkara living things?
Seeing you using mountaintop and anarchy together give me chills
Seeing white ammo bricks gave me PTSD lol
They are back now fully lol
Hello Byf, I just want ro say that I love your content
After one of your last films talking about riven being taken i remembered savathun saying that 'taken king will rise again' and now as in one lore entry savathun was laughing while riven not, maybe savathun came up with plan to have one riven egg and then have it became new taken king ( either egg or her). What do you think about it ( of course implying that she was saying truth about future of game lore not KF coming back last year)
I cant help wondering.... What is The Drifters purpose in The Nine's plans. Always loved this lore so much. Cant wait to see whats in store for us
Thanks Byf 🤙
If i remember correctly
He is a curiosity to them, hes part of their plan because they are interested in him.
Like they study guardiand and drifter is one of the strangest anomalys among the guardians, so they observe him. Could also be part of his forerunnerish understanding that you can use dark and light without being of either side.
Basically
Hes an anomaly and the nine are interested.
Given they have their own sect of taken, likely to study us and strengthen the taken under their control. It's also possible they wanted a more direct way of helping us out and they're using him as a proxy
There have been many theories thrown around about "Dark Matter Life". I mean, if normal matter can create life, can't antimatter and possibly even dark matter do the same? At least that's the general idea of it.
Byf, loving the content this season, especially the stuff over the last few weeks on ahamkara! Definitely great listens during this holiday season while I’m traveling a lot-keep up the great work!!
Maybe because of what both the Traveller and the Witness are respectfully, the Nine were just one byproduct of the interaction of light and dark energy when the Traveller saved humanity from the Black Fleet the first time? Or maybe the Ahamkara had a hand in that creation. Like you mentioned in a previous video, they might happen to hear someone's desire and grant it, albeit in a convoluted way.
Are the Nine like Nth spirits of the planets, made of whatever they are????
A bit late to this conversation, but the solar system contains 8 true planets(not dwarfs) and 1 star, making nine significant celestial bodies.
Given how the Nine are supposedly tied to our solar system and how changing their flesh resulted in terraforming of Venus, I think the nine might be the planets and Sol or at least the shadows of them.
After all this time, we may get the chance to finally wrap up The Nine storyline. Ive been waiting for 8 years....
interesting thoughts in my head after watching this video -
-The Guardians started hunting the Ahamkara after they started making wild changes to Venus. Were those changes the result of the Ahamkara corrupting the wishes of the Nine?
-Did the Vex become interested in Venus because of the paracausal residue of the Ahamkara granting the wishes and changing Venus? Do the wishes of the Ahamkara resemble the tithes of the Hive worm gods, this being derivative of the Witness, who, in turn, is derivative of the Veil?!?
-Could the nine be residual dark matter released from the time when the veil and the traveler were separated? Which laid dormant, or inert, until the time when the Traveler and the Veil were in the solar system together? And their paracausal link brough the dark matter to life, and created the Nine?
-Is the Nine's interest in Drifter an attempt to gain the ability to manipulate the Taken in order to get to Riven, so the Nine can finish making their wishes?
While its been a while since i've used the physics side of my degree, i can say with confidence that you explained dark matter pretty darn well! Some sort of matter that doesnt interact with electromagnetic radiation (light is one such form of electromagnetic radiation), but does interact with other primitive forces such as gravity!
--Tinfoil hat here--
With that said, i do however think that maybe bungie is thinking of another type of item known as anti-matter - the inverse of all things "normal" matter which we interact with. You cannot have "normal" matter without the anti-matter, and if they combine, both matters are destroyed and transformed into pure energy... idk about y'all, but in the lore when they are talking about "we wouldnt survive without eachother" gives me more anti-matter feelings than dark matter feelings... but then bungie did straight-up say "tendrils of dark matter"...
Meh... maybe im digging too deep here 😅😅😅
I have a question what is that pink floyd sounding music when byf is reading from the dusk book? I'd love to add it to my playlist
That’s just the destiny 1 soundtrack
While I appreciate all the wonderful lore and interpretation, quick mention. Dark matter and energy is not quite as fanciful as you have described. Dark merely means that we cannot perceive it. We first discovered the apparent visible matter in the universe by measuring all the light we receive and determining the solar masses that would be generating it. But then we observed gravitational effects and could figure out there was LOADS more mass than was coming from stars. Obviously, this mass was from things like planets, asteroids and other physical things that do not shine light that we can see. Of course, stars often have more mass than all orbital bodies in their influence so for stars to represent a minority of all mass indicates that there are far more things than mere planets and asteroids floating about. Many of these things are likely to be physical in nature - light a 'solar' system in which the central body never became large enough to collapse into a star and start giving light. But even within solar systems we see that there is mass we're not observing. Just like asteroids can be hard to spot, there could easily be a ton of mass in various forms (like dust clouds) which may not reflect light from our sun. This would be considered dark matter. Dark energy is similar but it describes energy that we know exists due to its effects, but we cannot tell what energy it is exactly because we have no means of direct measurement. Consider, if we look at something dark and notice it is warm we may think that a light is shining on it whilst also not shining in our direction. Or there might be something within the dark object creating heat. We do not know. This is dark energy.
{Disclaimer: All dark matter is purely theory right now}
Dark matter isn't so much an "anti-particle" or opposite of "normal" matter as much as it is just a different type of matter that doesn't interact with electricity or magnetism (electro-magnetic interaction). Virtually all interactions we have (seeing something, touching something) happen because of an electro-magnetic interactions (touch is the electrons in my hands/fingers repelling the electrons in my keyboard, the atoms don't actually come in contact). Thus, Dark Matter is very VERY hard to detect. But because they do have mass they interact with things via gravity.....but the interactions that happen via gravity are ~ 10^40 times weaker than the ones that happen via electro-magnetic interactions so we don't see Dark matters effects in a lab. Were do see the effects are in galaxies and things of that scale.
You talk about it as if it's real or that there is a single shred of evidence that it exist.
It's a place holder, a band aid because we can't explain something
Except now we are starting to and it turns out we didn't understand gravity as well as we thought.
Dark matter likely doesn't exist. Hubris does though and when we couldn't explain why galaxies don't fly apart we said "dark matter".
Instead we should have said "what don't we understand about gravity?"
Now that we finally did we can do away with this ridiculousness
9:19 we love the Pink Floyd vibe here I feel like destiny is if dark side of the moon was a video game
I wonder when that weapon mara requested be moved when she was talking to the nine will come to use
For anyone still Confused about what the Nine are, think the Angels from His Dark Materials, literally the same thing except they have specific boundaries
Its been a while since we've heard from the 9
What is the name of the music playing in the background?
Why do I feel like the city shoots itself in the toe everytime someone wants to warn or help them.
the planets ARE the nine, nine planets nine "nines", plus it explains how the witness could move the planets by physically TAKING them, since they're alive and have wills they could be taken and moved to a different plane
Bit of a long shot but:
What if entering the Traveler is something the The Traveler itself planned? The power/ strength of the Wisher determines how the Aramkara grants it…… so what if the wish is from the Traveler itself? That wish living through the vines that it created during the final shape cutscene.
But we have to do things to help an Aramkara be powerful enough to grant it (perhaps Riven or the egg Mara has).
Plus that’s how Cayde comes back. We Ikora or Mara as a good gesture moment!
I’m super early but I always love the videos thank for all the lore
2:54 sorry, I gotta say it. it's "premise", not "premises". a premise is a statement or assertion, a premises is a building or location.
If the nine are specifically bound to our solar system, does that mean that there are similar dark matter entities present in the various other systems in the destiny universe with sentient life?
I can’t confirm this as a fact but I believe that gravity has been referred to as the shadow of mass in the past. It is possible that I am simply recalling the Mass Shadow Generator from KOTOR and the fact that it is a gravity weapon but I feel decently confident that the name of that weapon was inspired by the idea of gravity being the shadow of mass, so to speak. Aka, where gravity is there must be mass, like how a shadow implies that there must be something to obstruct the flow of light. In the case of dark matter, if there is gravity and no observable mass, then there must be matter of some kind there even if we cannot perceive it.
okay idea: maybe they need paracausality to create bodies? ahamkara were the most efficient since they could (in theory) easily make a body that functions + wish magic is crazy powerful. without them they have to macgyver it with light from the guardians, a mediocre knowledge of biology, and ascendant hive portals rewired to whatever dimension they exist in
Mara wants the 9 because they were originally the 9 missing passengers from Exodus Green.
I wonder if dark matter is a property of the light, considering other matter is. Though I feel like it might be a 3rd or “in-between” force in regards to the Nine
I find it hard to believe that the A113 thing will come up, its a reference to the Pixar writing studio
The language here makes me almost think back too the singing of the spheres, as if the 9 are embodiments of Sols planets themselves
Also the deal with Xur- what if its not what the 9 could get from the Guardians, but what they could give
Considering thats what Xur and The dragons both do- give
The Nine are on their way! More Nine please 🥳
holy hell I actually completely forgot about The Nine at this point.
Right and what to make of the bones on IO?
I had to check the date on this vid, haven’t seen mountaintop and anarchy in a minute.
Kinda unrelated but does the description of the IX at 6:50 remind anyone else of the way that strand is described
I really REALLY hope Bungie will incorporate the Nine heavily into the whatever they have planned for the narrative after Final Shape because they are a mystery i desperately want to know more about. Them and the Vex of course because I think the Vex are awesome yet they barely get used.
It would be cool that the new dungeon takes place on Venus
I have a feeling that after the light and dark saga we will face the nine
The "9" have been forgotten about for a very long time.
Were there dark matter entities on Torobatl or Riis?
Ah, so the 9 are simply a less malevolent version of Eldritch Horrors. Cool!
Ah Shite, The Nine are equivilant to the Chaos Gods of the Warp in WH40k
I thought there was lore implicating that The Nine came from the same incident that created The Awoken. Is that not the case? Weren’t there nine people missing from the survivors of the crew that became The Awoken?
I believe there are, but that seems to not be the case. It may have been the original intention but retconned.
Station A-113, the station which house portals that lead to where the Nine Control, i know who the nine are:
It is p. IX. ar
The 'pattons' of everyone's lives, including guardians? Just guardians?
Isn't A113 also a popular Pixar design studio Easter egg?
I just found out what iritates me about his transition out of the sponsor read, it sounds like his reading of the Neomuni Cloudstrider Kids Show 😂
*Transfigure small typo that bothered the f*ck out of me. 😂 sorry
Ah, Mountaintop...
Byf! hurry up and make a big discord community
Ain’t no way the footage for the proph dungeon is pre witch queen 💀💀💀
Why are the nine not stepping in if the witness is trying to end us
still dying to know whats going on with the nine of mars and mercury since those destinations were sunset
also i wonder if the nine are able to get the ambiguous paracasual stuff that they took from the ahamkara/guardians from house salvation? or the ones that can use stasis at least. probably not a good source as theirs so few of them but im fascinated to know if theyre like. the fourth best option (ie ahamkara > guardians > lucent brood (less of them then guardians iirc) > house salvation)
also also xur's race. since their is like a whole race of xur aliens subservient to the nine??? im so fascinated constantly
The entitys of the planets still exist. It doesnt matter where the planet is, as long as it is the entitys stay "alive"
If the planet were destoryed, i wouldnt know
Certainly wouldn't blame any thinking being for wanting to not have their existence tied to another creatures life so completely.
don't go looking for the nine they will come to you - xur
oooooh that sounds so coooooool RE: A-113
So no one mentioned His Dark Materials & Dust
Hi Byf, I was wondering if we do kill the Witness would we be committing genocide?
FINALLY 🙌
So we matter because it makes them matter.
Did the Skrank Gang ever bargain with the Nine or the Ahamkara?
This seasons seems like its shaping up to be as good as season of the Witch. The lore potential is staggering
Oh look the noob tube crutching is back lol.
Really enjoying the ahamkara vids. The one on the great hunt was brilliant 👍🏻
...Are we, as matter born sentient beings, not in some way also the flesh of The Nine? Like a sensory organ, your eye and ear don't really know they're eyes or ears; those are abstractions our minds have given to parts of our "whole." Now they wish for a higher fidelity audio experience, or more vibrant colors, and organs suited to capturing and sampling the sweetness of existence with. Perhaps unifying further with us or another species here, leading into our own "Final Shape" to oppose the Witness', or maybe to a new form in Destiny 3.
What is the 9 are what they are because of Twisted wishes
r the nine the darkness civilization i wonder?
I don't really understand how you reached your conclusion in the begining about the NINE, I heard what you said as, the nine are the consciousness of the planets of the Sol system.
The nine were selected and the consciousness of the planets and the individual were merged. I didn't hear anything about dark matter I think you're really reaching with this one.. I hear descriptions of celestial bodies and consciousness. The "dark matter tentacles" are abstract description of consciousness, like the rest of the passages are abstract descriptions. Why would the rest be abstract and one passage be a direct naming...
The Humkara
16:58
A113!
Another one? Already? Say less.
What grenade launcher is that?
Into the weeds*
Another scatterbrain topic lol