@@neilcomparetto5282 part two for sure. I wondered the decay after valving after second test.. but enjoyed this BEST video. Jim Bergman tries to educate on use of bluvac graph ect.
Thanks man, this is helpful as I was having problems with this the other day when I was trying to pull a vaccum on a 4 ton system and everytime I would get it below 500 and shut it off it would do this and shoot all the way back up to 5000. I knew there wasn't a leak but it was frustrating to say the least.
I recently installed an old heatpump that was stored outside for a couple years. Vacuumed and filled with nitrogen probably 6 or 7 times over the course of 2 days to get below 500. Probably 10 or so hours total vacuum time.
Well now I can throw away my ice machine and just just my vacuum pump ✊. I wonder if volume plays a roll in this. Say a way bigger jar same amount of water. Sweet video bro.
Ulises Palacios , thanks! Feel free to send your rig my way, lol. I would imagine volume (both jar and liquid) plays a big part. I can think of a few spin offs that would be interesting.
Ulises Palacios, changed it, looked like milk!... they make 1/2 gallon jars... you pipe an evap coil, rolled up 7/8 line, cond coil, and this jar in series. That would simulate field conditions much better.
this is why the guys at appion were telling me that the tez8 pump was way too big for res. systems....if you used the mega flow manifold and the tez8....it would form ice due to the rate of deep vacuum being pulled.....i love this video...i watched like 5 times...lol
I spoke with Appion about this video, because the #1 question I always get when I show off my TEZ8 is the ice question. Appion engineering told me you would literally have to have 2-3" of standing water in a lineset for ice to even think about forming and even if it did form, it would sublimate over time. So Jayson (above) was absolutely spot on. With that said, the TEZ8 is not too big for residential systems! (And I use the mega flow manifold, 1/2" hoses, Appion CRT's and cores removed!
BK HVAC I had an old CPS VP6 vac pump hooked up to a Vertiv data centre in row and a Appion pos with the 1/2 lines hooked up to a identical system and they both pulled down at the same rate. Appions claims are bullish. Just cheap plastic rubbish.
Thank you very much! Awesome vid! This complements Jim Bergman take on this and is needed very much for viewing and seeing. What was your temperature in that room? I'm in Florida. Thanks!
That would be almost dependent on the ambient temperature. The boiling water absorbs heat, which will cause the water temperature to drop. If you want to keep it from dropping low enough to prevent the water from freezing as the pressure drops, heat must be able to enter the system at the same or a higher rate. THAT will be determined by the difference between the ambient temperature and the system temperature. I have become very interested in this topic because I have had water cooled condensers leak where the evaporator was outdoors in subzero weather multiple times. The evaporator was too expensive to replace so we had to evacuate it. Took over 30 days, 24 hours per day, and 30 oil changes.
this is a contradiction! How then, during vacuum, is the water to be removed from the system if it freezes? frozen water particles cannot escape from the system.
would one way to combat ice formation be adding heat to the coil in perhaps the form of heat gun or even defrost heater? Would triple evacuation be a solution? What temperature did the ice/water reach?
SooMin Kim I don't have all the answers. I've never knowingly encountered this in the field. Your micron gauge would indicate if there was an issue. I have a few more ideas to test out, some more realistic conditions. If I do I will shoot a video. Thanks for watching!
clayton davis very unlikely scenario. There shouldn’t be that much moisture in there anyway. Keep using large hoses, the micron gauge will tell you what’s going on inside the system.
I want to see if you pump long enough, would the ice turn into vapor and be finally gone as others have suggested? Also how would you know it in a closed non see through system by looking at gauges?
Will it not pull down to 500 microns with moisture? Or does it flatten out for a long period of time before arriving at 500 microns? Is 500 microns equal to 29 inches and the max vacuum that can be put on a system? It would be neat to see a heat gun used in your test as well. I find it hard to believe that ice can turn strait to vapor given enough time under vacuum.
Blade, you would close the valve on the core removal tool and watch your micron gauge. If it goes up quite a ways, you still have moisture in the system. The old test we use to do was to close the valve once under 500 microns, then wait 7 minutes. If your vacuum did not go above 1000 microns, you have a tight, dry system.
Blade - I tried to recreate making ice when I added volume (recovery tank), couldn't do it. Unlikely for this to happen in the field. ... the refer circuit shouldn't have any substantial amount of moisture in it anyway.
What causes the temp to drop so low as to freeze the moisture? I thought it should boil off under vacuum. Is there an absolute way to tell if there is moisture in a system?
Excellent! Literally the best, most useful demo I have seen in a long time. THANKS
Thanks Bryan!.... after the fact I thought of a few things that could of been done differently. Maybe there will be a part 2.
Bryan Orr i agree! whole heatedly!
@@neilcomparetto5282 part two for sure. I wondered the decay after valving after second test.. but enjoyed this BEST video. Jim Bergman tries to educate on use of bluvac graph ect.
Thanks man, this is helpful as I was having problems with this the other day when I was trying to pull a vaccum on a 4 ton system and everytime I would get it below 500 and shut it off it would do this and shoot all the way back up to 5000. I knew there wasn't a leak but it was frustrating to say the least.
I recently installed an old heatpump that was stored outside for a couple years. Vacuumed and filled with nitrogen probably 6 or 7 times over the course of 2 days to get below 500. Probably 10 or so hours total vacuum time.
Great video plus 1 on having quality micro gauge
Matt Gatlin thank you, you're right the micron gauge is critical.
Excellent
Great video brotha! Im gonna share this on my page. Excellent demonstration.
Thanks Brad! I'm glad everyone likes it better than me, lol. I appreciate the share!
Well now I can throw away my ice machine and just just my vacuum pump ✊. I wonder if volume plays a roll in this. Say a way bigger jar same amount of water. Sweet video bro.
Ulises Palacios , thanks! Feel free to send your rig my way, lol. I would imagine volume (both jar and liquid) plays a big part. I can think of a few spin offs that would be interesting.
Neil Comparetto lol. We just need to find a glass jar the size of a recovery tank. Don't forget to change that oil in your pump.
Ulises Palacios, changed it, looked like milk!... they make 1/2 gallon jars... you pipe an evap coil, rolled up 7/8 line, cond coil, and this jar in series. That would simulate field conditions much better.
Great job Neil! keep them coming!!!
Thanks Billy!
Great video, thank you!
Seems like the answer is to find a way to keep the system under less vacuum and the moisture above freezing until all the moisture is gone?
this is why the guys at appion were telling me that the tez8 pump was way too big for res. systems....if you used the mega flow manifold and the tez8....it would form ice due to the rate of deep vacuum being pulled.....i love this video...i watched like 5 times...lol
BK HVAC , this video is just the tip of the iceberg.... it would be interesting to replicate field conditions.
Neil Comparetto on a lineset with a thermal camera.......
BK HVAC , that would pretty cool to bring a TIC to the party.
I spoke with Appion about this video, because the #1 question I always get when I show off my TEZ8 is the ice question. Appion engineering told me you would literally have to have 2-3" of standing water in a lineset for ice to even think about forming and even if it did form, it would sublimate over time. So Jayson (above) was absolutely spot on. With that said, the TEZ8 is not too big for residential systems! (And I use the mega flow manifold, 1/2" hoses, Appion CRT's and cores removed!
BK HVAC I had an old CPS VP6 vac pump hooked up to a Vertiv data centre in row and a Appion pos with the 1/2 lines hooked up to a identical system and they both pulled down at the same rate.
Appions claims are bullish. Just cheap plastic rubbish.
Thank you very much! Awesome vid! This complements Jim Bergman take on this and is needed very much for viewing and seeing. What was your temperature in that room? I'm in Florida. Thanks!
Tony McKay thanks man! It was cold, the water and room were between 40-50 degrees.
Thanks forma share
Neat. Now, I wonder if you could show how slow you’d need to pull a vacuum to be able to evaporate that water without freezing it?
That would be almost dependent on the ambient temperature. The boiling water absorbs heat, which will cause the water temperature to drop. If you want to keep it from dropping low enough to prevent the water from freezing as the pressure drops, heat must be able to enter the system at the same or a higher rate. THAT will be determined by the difference between the ambient temperature and the system temperature. I have become very interested in this topic because I have had water cooled condensers leak where the evaporator was outdoors in subzero weather multiple times. The evaporator was too expensive to replace so we had to evacuate it. Took over 30 days, 24 hours per day, and 30 oil changes.
YES
this is a contradiction! How then, during vacuum, is the water to be removed from the system if it freezes? frozen water particles cannot escape from the system.
would one way to combat ice formation be adding heat to the coil in perhaps the form of heat gun or even defrost heater? Would triple evacuation be a solution? What temperature did the ice/water reach?
SooMin Kim I don't have all the answers. I've never knowingly encountered this in the field. Your micron gauge would indicate if there was an issue. I have a few more ideas to test out, some more realistic conditions. If I do I will shoot a video. Thanks for watching!
So should I use larger hoses for evacuation or not????? I don’t want ice inside my system if it pulls down too fast.... what is too fast?
clayton davis very unlikely scenario. There shouldn’t be that much moisture in there anyway. Keep using large hoses, the micron gauge will tell you what’s going on inside the system.
I want to see if you pump long enough, would the ice turn into vapor and be finally gone as others have suggested?
Also how would you know it in a closed non see through system by looking at gauges?
Blade you will know something is up if you have a high quality micron gauge.
Will it not pull down to 500 microns with moisture? Or does it flatten out for a long period of time before arriving at 500 microns?
Is 500 microns equal to 29 inches and the max vacuum that can be put on a system?
It would be neat to see a heat gun used in your test as well.
I find it hard to believe that ice can turn strait to vapor given enough time under vacuum.
www.measurequick.com/2017/05/19/identifying-true-leaks-in-a-vacuum/
There are more blog posts on doing an evacuation.
Blade, you would close the valve on the core removal tool and watch your micron gauge. If it goes up quite a ways, you still have moisture in the system. The old test we use to do was to close the valve once under 500 microns, then wait 7 minutes. If your vacuum did not go above 1000 microns, you have a tight, dry system.
Hi can you plz tell me the capacity of pump you use
Rajpathi Yadav 7 cfm
If that happens in an AC system you cant get that ice out?
Blade - I tried to recreate making ice when I added volume (recovery tank), couldn't do it. Unlikely for this to happen in the field. ... the refer circuit shouldn't have any substantial amount of moisture in it anyway.
What causes the temp to drop so low as to freeze the moisture? I thought it should boil off under vacuum.
Is there an absolute way to tell if there is moisture in a system?
Blade ,
hvacrschool.com/can-pulling-vacuum-fast-freeze-water-moisture/
Thanks for the link man!
Nice video
Freeze!!! Your under arrest for freezing moisture
Justin Hernandez , lmao!!