iLegault Useless but in ENM if Eliwood caps speed after promotion, and you give him the body ring from Denning's chapter, he has just enough speed to double the fire dragon with Durandal. On harder difficulties, the dragon has more speed, preventing this.
Admittedly other characters can make far better use of the Body Ring, but if you want to do it, go right ahead. Eliwood isn't Roy-level bad, he's a 5/10 unit. The only reason he gets shit on is because he's a Lord.
Honestly you should make a series out of this Mekkah. Give it a name, similar to Pitfalls, but make it about characters that the community think are good, but sucks, or the other way around, characters that people think suck, but are good. This is easily your best type of content.
You're one of my favorite youtubers Mekkah. I consider myself an alright player; I never cared about turncounts and such but strategy wise I was sound. You're among the people that caused me to favor movement, use mounted units, fliers and to promote earlier; it was one of the best changes I added to how I play. I still commit pitfalls especially when it comes to conserving good weapons including prf weapons though I should use them when needed. Thanks for everything and congrats on the subs; you deserve them. You work hard on your videos and you're really knowledgeable. Thanks for sharing yet being cool about it. People should play how they want but it's nice to know how to do things more efficiently. Spectacular. You sincerely amaze me Mekkah.
JustHitRewind I really agree with you. Personally I watch these videos to see where I can improve, and use that knowledge to my general game plan. Also since I am kind of new to these games, it is nice to see what I am getting into, and not feel lost on what to do.
I'll be as frank as possible here. As a Lyn fan who has never played HHM (got only as far as EHM), I'm kinda hurt at how things become disadvantageous for her. I got into Lyn not because boobs, legs or anything, but because of her animations. Thay scripted crit was love at first sight for me and Fire Emblem in general, even if she wasn't my first exposure to this series. She also has performed amazingly on each playthrough. And she has been super satisfying because of all the crits I got. She made me cry a little when I felt her, I breathed a sigh of relief as I saw I could see her again. She has been improving constantly, another big point being her promotion, when I just.... I just like speedy, ninja- like animations and she fit the bill, okay! She is still growing on me as time goes on. This video has convinced me of one thing. I will replay Fire Emblem 7 and do that darned HHM. And yes, I will use Lyn, no arena abuse or anything. Just... Anybody... Please do not hurt me... But I may give her some stat boosting items. Mainly a body ring. But I'll try to limit myself in that regard. Great video, congrats on the goal and wish me RNG luck.
That's exactly my feeling, and where I'm at. No HHM either yet, love Lyn for her crits and clearly not for her effectiveness - I realized after a no abuse playthrough that she indeed has some flaws. But fully optimized and supported swordmasters - including Lyn - are the most satisfying unit to use to me, because flashy crits and amazing character design and personality. I guess at some point I'm going to do exactly the same as you. With a few stat boosts... May RNGsus be with you.
My Lyn doing fine even in HHM (recently played) as usual. I always used her as my lucky card in difficult situation even thought she rely heavily on RNG. She also tend to max up her Speed and Skill before lvl15, so I had no trouble sending her solo in hard chapter or as boss slayer (except dragon ofcos). p/s: I never overused/overtrain Lyn, she usually reach lvl20 as soon as I got her promotion item.
Hey bro no shame in using stat boosters for your favorite characters, that's what they're for. It's a single player game meant for your enjoyment. Knowing that Lyn isn't the most OP character in the game shouldn't prevent you from using every item on her and having a good time doing so.
Calm down there bud, it’s alright. People just like certain characters. Using the same characters every time you play gets pretty boring, but that’s the point of fire emblem. You have SOOO many options. I use Dart every time I play fe7 for example. I know throwing 25,000 gold at a unit ain’t optimal, but you should only care about being optimal in an LTC
She seems like a character that's supposed to shine in her own chapters, then fall off once Eliwood enters the picture. Almost like she's passing the baton off.
That shouldn't come as suprise, if it wasn't for 1-2 range, they would be useless. That's the only thing they have going for them. Makes up somewhat for the crappy accuracy and lower MT. Swords are still more reliable for me in this game, since they are very likely to hit and not leave the enemy at full HP in some occasions, double misses with 1-2 ranges can happen quite a bit.
Yeah she sucks. not useful unless you can grind the shit out of her in her campaign. but that's no reason not to love/use her anyways. she's a great character with great supports, cool animations and a baller character design. if you like them use them. mekkah knows his shit for sure, but don't let efficiency and tier lists deter you from using your favorite units. congrats on 8k, mekkah.
FellPhanpy why thank you. I'm a VERY devout Lyn fanboy (in the past I did often defend her as a unit as well) but nowadays I can acknowledge her flaws in FE7 and love her in spite of them.
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 I was like that with Nino, and I as well tried to defend her, but now I just like her character and I will use her for fun some playthroughs
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 This thread (and maybe even this video in general) is making me realize just how different the Pokemon and Fire Emblem fanbases are. In Pokemon, which is what I've been playing and hanging out in for much longer, people don't really care that much about how good or bad a Pokemon is (unless your entire tournament is the same four mons over and over again), and people will actually respect you for bringing something you like but that isn't necessarily "good". With Fire Emblem though, it seems like there's only a small number of camps that you have to be in, and using characters you like is either frowned upon, supported, or overly critiqued. People here also seem way more into tier lists and way less into overall team compositions than in Pokemon. Just some observations from a Pokemon fan who joined the FE community a few years ago.
She's bad for FE7. If you put her in another game, I would definitely still use her. Her early doubling utility and decent growths would make her a viable option. Maybe still not a good one especially when you compare her to someone of the likes of Rutger, but Mani Katti is also a pretty good weapon. As for bows you're probably better off training another archer. Swords are where its at for her and while it doesn't hurt her to have better bow rank for some of the better ones in case you want that 2 range, and there are instances where it's nice to switch between the two, you're usually gonna end up with silver sword, brave sword or killing edge.
that guy I used to hate lowen on everything, But he has grown to me alot. He has a cool Squire personality and solid bases for a early unit. He also has the highest CON which makes him slow down less from high weight weapons. his only problem is meh growths BUT growths don't matter
The reason why Lowen gets ripped on is because Kent and Sain are there for people interested in growths, and Marcus is there for people interested in bases. He's never the best cavalier/paladin, always at most 2nd place.
Man, I had never realized how incredibly rng blessed I had been with my Lyn in my original run when she got defense every single level until it hit cap.
Not that it matters much, it's a weapon that can only be used for the final chapter. Still very usefull to kill the Fire Dragon faster, since it has good crit and thus is more likely to cause more damage than Eliwood does, since he's less likely to crit or double with the Durandal.
What 0 damage? Lyn is always causing damage, even against Generals. And against the Fire Dragon she causes 9 damage per hit, since she doubles it, while Eliwood doesn't, thus allowing her to easily be just as close to his damage.
+Diogo Jorge If you watched the video, Mekkah's average stats 20/10 Lyn does 1 damage to the dragon and gets OHKOd on the counter so you either have to: 1) get really lucky with level ups to get better stats 2) pour multiple stat boosters into her, or 3) grind her close to max level while still getting decent level ups just so she doesn't die to the dragon, much less deal any meaningful damage
She's not 20/10 at that point. She's 20/18. No grinding necessary, she has plenty of enemies to kill before then. No stat boosters necessary either. I usually only use the Seraph Robe in Lyn mode to further improve her dodgetanking ability. She doesn't die to the dragon though, since she has 43 HP at that point. And she usually deals 7-9 damage per hit and doubling, specially since she supports with Hector who gives her a boost in ATK.
Lyn just embodies allot of the dissapointment I have with cool characters being sword locked and/or bow locked. And in certain games, these issues were addressed but I don't think any of them have been sticking. Fe9/10 had those early 1-2 range swords that, if I'm remembering correctly, only really fell off because axes became super accurate and thus made swords very obsolete in most cases. In Fe2/Echoes bows has 1-3 range giving them a superior range advantage at the cost of less durable stats while still not completely crippling the classes that use them by having no chance to retaliate on enemy phase.
I've been making the Swordmaster argument for years. Lyn is neither a Swordmaster nor a Nomadic Trooper, which is sad because if she at least got a mount she would jump up in the tiers.
Lyn just has such a frustrating design. Nothing ticks me off more than her getting a fourteen fucking weight weapon with mediocre might as her legendary sword. If even a couple things about her were changed (better final weapon, better strength, maybe an avoid stat buff), she could become a top tier unit, or at least one with a good niche. What makes it worse is that she has such a cool promotion class that in theory should fix her issues. Unfortunately, all it does is put her in perpetual mediocrity. The devs put just enough effort into her to tease us with a good unit, only to completely fall flat when it matters most
Those aren't really lyns big issues, even if lyn had +15 crit she still wouldn't be good as guy does have that and he isn't a good unit either and the sol katti is a weapon you only get in the final chapter and athos is the only unit you need to complete that chapter anyways.
Rather than Lyn being bad, it's more like HHM shits on sword users in general. The reason why people think she's more viable than what she is is probably because a lot of casual players don't play on the hardest difficulty in the game. She operates fine on everything except HHM, especially in Eliwood where there are less peg nights overall. Not to mention you get an energy ring and angelic robe during her campaign, which fixes some of her biggest problems if used on her. That's the bigger problem here: a lot of units that are fine become garbage on HHM, while units like Raven become crazy good. I mean, if you look at average stats, Lyn passes Guy on everything except HP and speed (hardly matters since they both cap anyway) pretty quickly, including strength. Hell, even with Hard Mode bonuses, Guy is still just basically Lyn without manikatti, bow utility, and less availability. The only thing he has on her is that he can promote early; if you got a heaven seal a few chapters earlier, it would be negligible. Looking at it this way, you can argue that Swordmasters are just a garbage class in HHM anyway since Guy is essentially the best one and he still gets passed by Lyn in most things. On an unrelated note, does anyone else think a lot of problems would be fixed with her mid game if supports we available during her campaign? That early access to Rath, Kent, and especially Florina (easily a B support, possibly an A by the end of her campaign) would make a pretty big difference I feel.
I don't see this to be the case. In lower modes, Lyn's strengths are even more unneeded and her weaknesses play a bigger part. On lower modes, enemies are easy to kill, so movement and 1-2 range is even more important. Cav effectiveness and high speed is less useful becuase enemies are weaker, meaning even more people double.
That still doesn't make her bad on those modes, that makes her less optimal. That's why I said she operates "fine", and she does. She's really not a huge liability on those modes like in HHM and doesnt ever struggle really unless you get really str screwed, which is just bad luck at that point since 40% growth in str is great for a sword master type unit. Like I said, the point is that most casual players never see her glaring flaws unless they are on the highest difficulty because shes just a better Guy with bow access and manikatti on the lower difficulties. She's essentially the dominant choice in her "weight class" (swordmasters) on everything except HHM, and since she's force deployed, people tend to use her anyway. Considering that it takes 3 play throughs to even unlock HHM, and she performs well enough on all except HHM, I would argue that she's not a bad character simply because she does just fine on 3 out of the 4 modes. I would argue that it is HHM that makes her "bad", not herself. Compared to someone like Renalt or Wallace... yea.
I wouldn't even say lyn is straight up better than guy, guy has better bases than her if you haven't played lyn mode and i'n not even counting hard mode bonuses, counting hard mode bonuses at 20/20 lyn will at most have 2 points of strength over 20/20 guy, while guy will be ahead in strength comparatively due to better base, the +15 crit on promotion allows guy to semi-reliably crit with a killing edge whenever you need him to and guy can promote far earlier than lyn which allows him to be a better unit for a bigger period of time, the hero crest competition isn't even too bad since raven joins at lvl5 and his enemy phase isn't too good at that stage so it'll take a while for him to reach lvl10+ and by that point you'll probably have gotten the second hero crest, while lyn competes with eliwood/hector both of which have better overa promotions than her, eliwood becomes a good unit while hector becomes an immovable wall both of which are better than what lyn can provide.
When I got to the final chapter years ago I was happy and surprised to get the Sol Katti as a gift... and then felt utter disappointment when I tried to use it thinking it was actually better than the Mani Katti... " Thanks for nothing, Athos!" Lyn is best girl, but why is she so small and meek? You'd think a skilled lifelong Sacaean like her would be a little more robust all around with a heftier swing.
Please do more videos like this one! This analysis was really well done and detailed, and I'd love to see your extended thoughts on Eliwood and Hector, just to name a few ^^
I feel one thing not mentioned enough is how much Lyn gets screwed over by effective MT only being doubled in America's version of Fe7. To give you an example in that first clip where the cavalier surivived her first attack by 8, he would of died in 1 hit with the standard triple MT. Like wise the Valkyries in Cog of Destiny can fall into one shot with triple effective MT. Lyn's secondary weapon bows also gets more effective with her ability to use up to steel bows in promotion she will one round the majority of flying units save for end game Wyvern Lords but almost no one one rounds them. She can also use the Wyvern slayer to actually damage Wyvern knights before she gets bows which were one of the most troubling classes for Lyn to deal with normally. Triple effective MT benefits all characters overall at the cost of having to be more mindful of enemy effective weapons, but Lyn as well as other speedy sword users especially benefit from them as their abilty to double constanty gives them double the value out of them. Not only does triple Mt makes Lyn's offense much stronger but also helps her durability as she will 1 shot more often meaning she will suffer less counters on player phase. Even with Triple effective Mt she still has her other issues like weak enemy phase in a enemy phase domaniated game, lack of a early promotion option, the ridiculous amount of dangerous lance and magic units late game in HHM and general inability to take hits, she at least will excell out her niche of being an high damaging player phase based unit.
Yeah, that's basically how it is. Lyn's a 1 star unit if you don't play her mode and a 2 star (3 being VERY generous) if you choose to play her mode. Good luck on the 8k, too!
+Rishabh Jain I can't judge Dancers and Bards though. They are useful in Battle because I can Galeforce an OP unit to attack again. Their Stats aren't used in Battle anyway so they are preferable in the Back Row and if they are High Level enough, they can be used as Decoy because of their Avo to trigger Ambush Attacks.
+Rishabh Jain I used my Bard so that Lyn can both attack and seize the Throne on her Final Chapter. It brought me this rating. If it weren't for the Funds, I would've just Perfect all of my Tactician Stats. plus.google.com/113275031495299662481/posts/Y3qLXvFNBwK
You don’t need geitz, you don’t have to train a garbage, and okay unit to get a good one to beat the game. You can lure lloyd over quickly at range and kill him if you really don’t like the map
Congrats on 8k Mekkah. I know this is just a hobby for you, but your FE content (with occasional uploads of other content) is great. Glad to see more people are seeing that. Just know your vids are greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Also, quick note. I’ve never done this myself, but isn’t using the lyn’s mode knight crest on Kent or Sain not work? If I remember correctly, when used on one of them, doesn’t it get reversed again once they rejoin on chapter 15/16?
Thank you for the kind comment. Kent and Sain's stats should carry over to the next mode you're playing unless they die in Lyn Mode. Maybe you pressed New Game instead of saying yes when asked whether you wanted to continue playing?
Mekkkah Not sure. I haven’t even played Lyn’s mode in over a year. I could be just imagining things. Just wanted to bring it up in hopes someone would tell me whether or not I’m right.
I've always wondered why they didn't give Lyn the Mulagir as her ultimate weapon.. and the sol katti should've been made available earlier in like, a side quest or something.. Maybe in a fe7 remake? ;)
Make the Sol Katti actually be a replacement for her Mani Katti with virtually identical stats (maybe slightly better and same weight), Mulagir her final weapon as a Prf weapon for her. Considering she always gets Mulagir now, pretty much guaranteed they'd give her Mulagir in a remake, like how they'd give Axes to fliers now. She never got Sol Katti in FEH or Engage, the only modern FE-related game featuring Lyn that gave her Sol Katti was Fire Emblem Warriors.
ive only recently discovered playing fire emblem with well thought out strategies in mind and man is it addicting to learn about. thanks for making these vids
Even with all the stat boosters won't make a good unit, she still needs another weapon type (that's how awful of a waifu she is, dodge that bullet people!)
No. They already have plenty of HP. Using it on them would be a waste, they usually get pretty close to maxing HP by lv 20 Paladin. That means that 7 HP boost would go to waste on them.
I doubt my dumb comment really had much to do with anything, Lyn has always been a very polarizing unit. And Mekkah is the one who spent his time and effort in making the video so you should be thanking him.
how did you make a redditz into a 35 minute video. BUT MEKKKAHHHHHHHH!!!!! MY LYN MAXED ALL HER STATS!!!!! I REALLLY THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION!!!!!!
+The Rape Face Uhhh... Lyn can only fight the Dragon with Capped 30 Speed and 50 Def with just a Sol Katti. Well she is the only unit that can save you there.
One time I got her to S-Rank in bows, and she became a beast in the linked arena against friends. Of course, this was like 12 year old me, so i'm sure there's some nostalgia and child logic in that...
Not at all. good accuracy and lighter, so they are usually more reliable for certain damage. Also, do try to fight axewielders whitout those, thus forcing you to use the innacurate and slow axe users instead. Falcon Knights are godlike when using swords, since they are no longer held back by the more heavy spears, Florina becomes much more of a dodgetank while wielding one.
Last time I used Lyn, she capped almost every stat and was able to guarantee dodge anything without WT advantage. She was so blessed I took the time to train her up to A bows and trivialized the final chapter with the Brave Bow. She took a lot of investiment but actually paid off immediately at chapter 16, thanks to mad luck in Lyn Mode. Priscilla would have done the same job with similar investiment, but much better because of 1-2 range, better weapon type, staves and better movement. Except she was 20/10 with 7 Magic.
Schizophrenic as the first fire emblem wiki entry could it be? "Just give her a killing edge and she will dispatch an entire army all by herself". As lyn fan this hurts me, but you have very solid points, the great problem Lyn has is her really beyond awful initial stats, i mean they always do that with the main characters but Lyn's case is a particularly sad one, especially when you realize Eirika is basically Lyn both in initial stats and growths wih the only exception of having 2 more strength initially, even the creators realized how screwed her initial stats were. Oh well, at least the Mani Katti is an awesome weapon.
Popped up in my recommendations and easily liked it. I would be bluntly honest, I absolutely love Lyn as a character, but her flaws are definitely out there. The only thing I liked was buffing her stats with items and screwing every unit that has an advantage against her (Like wyverns, damn hate those things coming close) and laugh at their faces as I stare at the jiggle physics. I am a simple man with simple needs :D
Eliwood as far as I've played is easily one of the best, even unpromoted, but still, this really helps, I knew Lyn was bad, but I didn't know exactly how bad
+Diogo Jorge True, Eliwood is really good. But his Max Speed is just 24. While Lyn's is roughly 30/30 in total. However, use the Afa's Drops on Eliwood (if you played Lyn Mode) so that he can cap speed.
Great vid on my favorite unit. Myrmidons to me always have this awkward place in fe. I love them as units, but they're so squishy and being sword locked isn't usually a good thing. What I'd like to know is how should they be used in truly ideal situations. Lyn here has the +Cav&Armor bonus from her prf but your Valk example and the lack of a 1-2 range on an infantry unit makes that really not seem worth it. Hmm...... I'd love to see some good examples on how to effectively use Myrmidons as a whole throughout the FE Franchise.
They could have at least given her the swordmaster passive crit bonus, since that's basically what her class is supposed to be. It'd make her a lot more interesting, as she'd be the only unit with a crit bonus that can use more than one weapon type.
What I consider one of my big "coming of age" moments as a Fire Emblem player and a person in general was the realization that Lyn just wasn't very good. I was playing through Hector Hard mode for the first time after playing through all the other modes, and I kind of unconsciously used Lyn less and less as the playthrough went on. Then in Chapter 26 Unfulfilled Heart I finally realized that Lyn just wasn't going to be a helpful contribution in a chapter that's always given me trouble, even if I gave her the Heaven's Seal. So, for the first time, I classed up Eliwood before Lyn. For the rest of the playthrough I just kind of... held her back, I guess. Kept her out of the fight, because she just wasn't going to help me on the frontlines. That was a big moment for me. I was finally able to admit to myself that just because I like a unit or just because a character is fun to use doesn't make them a "good" character. It was still okay to like that character, but it was better if I accepted that they may not be as good as I originally thought or personally value. This in turn helped shape me as a person down the line and my willingness to critique my own opinions, flaws and all, but a large part of that started with Lyn.
Not really. Any of the final weapons don't get to be used much, since it's the final chapter. Lyn is faster and can double even with all that weight, while Eliwood and Hector might have some trouble doing so. As a result, Lyn will usually cause more damage than them with it.
Easily done, considering that Mani Katti will just regenerate once she rejoins. Mani Katti is the only weapon she needs for her mode as it levels her weapon rank faster and you can give her Iron Sword to Sain.
I would have liked to see the Bow's being added as a secondary weapon addressed a bit more in depth. A common tactic I use with bow/melee hybrid classes is to attack with a bow to avoid a counterattack, and then bring another unit in to trade Lyn to sword equip, then finish off an enemy with the active unit. It's still not as good as 1-2 range, since one range is still not being covered, and it requires team support, and it won't completely turn Lyn around, but I think it makes Bow's a better secondary weapon than implied. Lyn's low Con at 5-6 is also a big issue, but supports that she should probably be using swords and bows. The Iron and Silver Bow are the only 2 range weapons she can theoretically use (silver bow is admittedly not likely to happen) without slowdown, and the killer bow only gives 1 slowdown. An Iron Lance would give 2 slowdown, a Javelin would give 5 slowdown. If you're taking 5 slowdown (also 10 avoid) you get rid of Lyn's main selling point, and gives even less reason to pick her over Eliwood. Bow's+Swords are a reasonable way to go for low Con units in my opinion.
She doesn't need those to begin with, since Silver Swords and Killing Edges only weight 8 and 7 respectively. Sain's SPD is inferior to her. He has 40% SPD which is good, but nowhere close to Lyn's 60% and higher base. Sain is slightly better than Lyn by virtue of his STR, not his class.
and he can put his higher strength and con to use more frequently and safely in both phases, thanks to his class. he can get to doubling speed soon enough and to the point where there aren't many enemies that only lyn can double.
The sad part is that soon after Guy joined I said "Hey, he is more or less like Lyn..." But I'll still use her because Is my first playthough... I want to experience by myself how she performs
Finally! Someone who can look past the jiggle. She's a terrible unit, a boring character, was the main character in the worst story in the game, is outclassed by every other sword unit (except Karla), yet still she was the most popular female unit for Fire Emblem heroes, among three other bland and boring lords... but she has boobs... and like Tharja, if you have boobs your flaws are ignored... Unless your name's Oliver.
CrimsonZero Nah, Lyn is the clone Navarre was intended to be in the base game. They pushed him back to add Lyn in the base game. That's why the moveset is so dual wield-heavy. Lyn only dual wielded once but that's Navarre's shtick.
For Unfulfilled Heart, you could also abuse the Mine Glitch to both get the Uber Spear and disarm all enemies that aren't reinforcements, meaning it's even easier in comparison to the other Force Deploy maps.
True but glitches shouldn't be taken into account when it comes to this . Tho giving the uber spear to pretty much any lance user is really fun . It's better than the Rex hasta .
XxxJim_ the_ ReaperxxX But my fellow Follower of the Radd, surely you would know that RADDQUETZ needs no Talisman to ward his foes! *F O R* *H E* *I S* *F A S T E R* *T H A N* *H E* *L O O K S !*
So something i'm not sure was considered for the video but for Lyn's loadout you could give her slim swords before you have access to Killing Edges. While they don't do as much as the latter the Slim Swords (and the Short Bow which is the slim equivalent for bows when she does eventually promote) they are available much earlier in fact the same chapter you recruit Lyn and the Caelin crew.
I think this is my only issue with the video. Although Mekkkah makes the point well that many other units are better than Lyn, outside of HHM she performs fine because those modes are quite easy. HHM is tedious to legitimately unlock, and most players have never even experienced it.
it just makes her even less special in the easier modes since her AS lead, cavalry eff, etc becomes less important, and "static" factors like movement and 1-2 range becomes more important since you can ORKO even more things with just javelin/hand axe
Mr. Conquestining Good point! I agree with Mekkkah on pretty much every point here, but there are well known statistics of very few players completing video games and likely even fewer doing it the 2 or more times required to unlock HHM, much less on hard mode in a series with permadeath. As someone who considers themself a huge fan of FE7, have beaten it 8 times in my life and only just recently unlocked Hector Hard (most of my playthroughs were on a GBA cartridge I no longer own) I can only imagine how few other players have unlocked it much less finished it!
Well, in Eliwood normal everyone is overpowered and can roflstomp everything with the exception of Wil, Rebecca and Wallace, so the discussion is pointless there... If you must make comparisons in efficiency terms, the one with the highest move with 1-2 range always wins every competition, because they can go round the map doubling everything faster, and counter everyone on enemy phase. Which means... Lyn is still not close to the best.
Mekkah, I these analyses are honestly really great. Rather than just give a hot take with shoddy reasoning (which most fanboys and fangirls do), you back up a fair take with strong reasoning. I don't think there's anything else to add, except for one thing: Chapter 23E/24H, or Four-Fanged Offense. The combined Lord level determines your map and your boss (as well as the boss for Cog of Destiny). I would've loved to have seen your analysis on the importance of controlling your level for Four-Fanged Offense. Personally, I always go the Linus route, for several reasons: 1) No fog of war. 2) I prefer Geitz over Wallace, for support and usage reasons. 3) The arena is in a more exciting spot, allowing me to battle there while engaging enemies from all attack points. It gives me a chance to use the arena often without spamming or negatively effecting ranked runs. 4) Heck, make it general map layout. Just give me one mounted unit to get to the village at the bottom right, which should be no problem whatsoever. 5) The challenge of using flying units to combat the ballistae and/or ferry companions. (The latter applies to battling Linus or getting to the secret shop.) 6) No fog of war. Basically, the Linus map is a much more fun challenge for my taste. Plus, I like the Lloyd/Nino talks in Cog of Destiny more than the Linus/Nino talks. So there's yet another reason. This is likely personal preference over anything else, but I think it's at least a notable talking point. The Lords' level must be 50+ to get the Linus map, meaning Lyn must be AT LEAST level 10 no matter what. And if you hate capping units as much as I, Lyn should probably be higher, so Eliwood and Hector don't have to be capped for several levels. So I use her often... until this point. She's honestly my highest-leveled Lord up until this chapter. After that, she honestly falls to the backdrop.
+Adam Dobrowolski If you don't like using Lyn at all in Hard Mode Runs then just cap her Levels by 20/20. That way you won't worry about her being underleveled and you can focus on leveling Hector and Eliwood.
+ZXKW Guy and Raven is good because of Hard Mode Bonuses. Guy doesn't Crit all the time which makes him easier to recruit. The only problem is that they suck in Normal Mode so they are optional.
![Characterization Not Found. [Supports that SUCK] Rath/Lyn. (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)](/img/n.gif)
Mekkah defending Eliwood. This pleases me.
Same
iLegault
Useless but in ENM if Eliwood caps speed after promotion, and you give him the body ring from Denning's chapter, he has just enough speed to double the fire dragon with Durandal. On harder difficulties, the dragon has more speed, preventing this.
Admittedly other characters can make far better use of the Body Ring, but if you want to do it, go right ahead. Eliwood isn't Roy-level bad, he's a 5/10 unit. The only reason he gets shit on is because he's a Lord.
+JamesBCrazy
You can also make Eliwood NOT use the Durandal if you can have him wield the Uber Spear.
+ZXKW
PSSHH!!!
Mekkkah can please you much better than that!
Honestly you should make a series out of this Mekkah. Give it a name, similar to Pitfalls, but make it about characters that the community think are good, but sucks, or the other way around, characters that people think suck, but are good. This is easily your best type of content.
+Mangs
The Pitfall General has finally broke through the Green Guards that Mekkkah assigned to defend his Useless Fort.
episode 2:louise
+The Rape Face
I rate Louise 2/5.
I'll give you food if you agree.
yeah louise is shit. both waifu and unit.
what food is it i'm actually kinda hungry
Next one has to be nino
He said I can be a good unit in FE7 I can die happy
Eliwood !
*Eliweed
Eligood
This is why I don't like Eliwood.
*gets crit*
Eligod
EliokIguess
The entire point of this video was to showcase how awesome Dorcas is, and to mention and talk about Dorcas.
dorcas is peepee material for good women
Dorcas is top waifu.
(Fun fact: Dorcas's name was based from a real-life female saint.)
+Zad Ras
B-b-but Dorcas is already pre-married.
He can't be a peepee material!
@@therapeface4153 facts
my dorcas growth stats is so bad, i only let bartre do the exp kill
Everyone: "Lyn is a bad unit!"
Wil: *sweating nervously in the background*
Wil has a bit less story relevence. Just a bit
You're one of my favorite youtubers Mekkah. I consider myself an alright player; I never cared about turncounts and such but strategy wise I was sound. You're among the people that caused me to favor movement, use mounted units, fliers and to promote earlier; it was one of the best changes I added to how I play. I still commit pitfalls especially when it comes to conserving good weapons including prf weapons though I should use them when needed.
Thanks for everything and congrats on the subs; you deserve them. You work hard on your videos and you're really knowledgeable. Thanks for sharing yet being cool about it. People should play how they want but it's nice to know how to do things more efficiently.
Spectacular. You sincerely amaze me Mekkah.
JustHitRewind & Mekkkah achieved C support!
JustHitRewind I really agree with you.
Personally I watch these videos to see where I can improve, and use that knowledge to my general game plan. Also since I am kind of new to these games, it is nice to see what I am getting into, and not feel lost on what to do.
very humbling and wholesome comment
+Mekkkah
Hey, Mekkkah.
What would your reaction be if Radd joined the Fort Mangs Emblem?
"Figured he'd make it in."
I'll be as frank as possible here.
As a Lyn fan who has never played HHM (got only as far as EHM), I'm kinda hurt at how things become disadvantageous for her.
I got into Lyn not because boobs, legs or anything, but because of her animations. Thay scripted crit was love at first sight for me and Fire Emblem in general, even if she wasn't my first exposure to this series.
She also has performed amazingly on each playthrough. And she has been super satisfying because of all the crits I got. She made me cry a little when I felt her, I breathed a sigh of relief as I saw I could see her again. She has been improving constantly, another big point being her promotion, when I just.... I just like speedy, ninja- like animations and she fit the bill, okay!
She is still growing on me as time goes on.
This video has convinced me of one thing.
I will replay Fire Emblem 7 and do that darned HHM. And yes, I will use Lyn, no arena abuse or anything.
Just... Anybody... Please do not hurt me... But I may give her some stat boosting items. Mainly a body ring. But I'll try to limit myself in that regard.
Great video, congrats on the goal and wish me RNG luck.
That's exactly my feeling, and where I'm at. No HHM either yet, love Lyn for her crits and clearly not for her effectiveness - I realized after a no abuse playthrough that she indeed has some flaws. But fully optimized and supported swordmasters - including Lyn - are the most satisfying unit to use to me, because flashy crits and amazing character design and personality.
I guess at some point I'm going to do exactly the same as you. With a few stat boosts...
May RNGsus be with you.
Théo LGD ah, I see! Well then, good luck to you too. It'll take ma a while to get there, but I sure it'll be worth it.
My Lyn doing fine even in HHM (recently played) as usual. I always used her as my lucky card in difficult situation even thought she rely heavily on RNG. She also tend to max up her Speed and Skill before lvl15, so I had no trouble sending her solo in hard chapter or as boss slayer (except dragon ofcos).
p/s: I never overused/overtrain Lyn, she usually reach lvl20 as soon as I got her promotion item.
Hey bro no shame in using stat boosters for your favorite characters, that's what they're for. It's a single player game meant for your enjoyment. Knowing that Lyn isn't the most OP character in the game shouldn't prevent you from using every item on her and having a good time doing so.
Calm down there bud, it’s alright. People just like certain characters. Using the same characters every time you play gets pretty boring, but that’s the point of fire emblem. You have SOOO many options. I use Dart every time I play fe7 for example. I know throwing 25,000 gold at a unit ain’t optimal, but you should only care about being optimal in an LTC
She seems like a character that's supposed to shine in her own chapters, then fall off once Eliwood enters the picture. Almost like she's passing the baton off.
AKA "Mekkah destroys your Waifus Part 2".
+Dax1212
This is why I hate Mekkah?
XxxJim_ the_ ReaperxxX Mekkah is my Waifu. ;)
Mekkah would never destroy himself, would he? that's why Mekkah is the most economical waifu choice
+VeryGoodBoy
Mekkah = Jaegen/Young Marcus
Facts
+VeryGoodBoy
Well, whatever you say.
Moral of the story
Weapon durability is important
If you don't have it, your weapons will rust!
And you caN'T FIGHT WITHOUT YOUR WEAPONS
ImmaLittlePip and 1-2 range weapons matter
That shouldn't come as suprise, if it wasn't for 1-2 range, they would be useless. That's the only thing they have going for them. Makes up somewhat for the crappy accuracy and lower MT. Swords are still more reliable for me in this game, since they are very likely to hit and not leave the enemy at full HP in some occasions, double misses with 1-2 ranges can happen quite a bit.
but for a unit that's locked to swords, does more hit make up for no 1-2 range?
missing occationally vs never countering is still an infinitely better option for enemy phase
Yeah she sucks. not useful unless you can grind the shit out of her in her campaign.
but that's no reason not to love/use her anyways. she's a great character with great supports, cool animations and a baller character design.
if you like them use them.
mekkah knows his shit for sure, but don't let efficiency and tier lists deter you from using your favorite units.
congrats on 8k, mekkah.
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 Its great to see someone who likes Lyn admit to her faults, Love your vids btw
FellPhanpy why thank you. I'm a VERY devout Lyn fanboy (in the past I did often defend her as a unit as well) but nowadays I can acknowledge her flaws in FE7 and love her in spite of them.
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 I was like that with Nino, and I as well tried to defend her, but now I just like her character and I will use her for fun some playthroughs
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 This thread (and maybe even this video in general) is making me realize just how different the Pokemon and Fire Emblem fanbases are. In Pokemon, which is what I've been playing and hanging out in for much longer, people don't really care that much about how good or bad a Pokemon is (unless your entire tournament is the same four mons over and over again), and people will actually respect you for bringing something you like but that isn't necessarily "good". With Fire Emblem though, it seems like there's only a small number of camps that you have to be in, and using characters you like is either frowned upon, supported, or overly critiqued. People here also seem way more into tier lists and way less into overall team compositions than in Pokemon.
Just some observations from a Pokemon fan who joined the FE community a few years ago.
You are a good example to the community and I love your vids. Keep it up!
Holy shit, he actually did it
I like Lyn as much as the next guy, but I won't deny her problems as a unit.
Same
Gregster 101 "the next GUY"
Yeah she sucks but I'll still use her
I won't deny her problems, but I won't pretend she's not a good unit.
who's next guy
if it's me i hate lyn
I'd like to think that Mekkah's purpose for being is to inform people that Lyn is a bad unit. 10/10 keep it up
Less a bad unit and more an okay unit in a game full of good ones.
While necessary, I think it's safe to say that calling out Amelia fanatics is more pressing.
Lyn is painfully subpar, but a pretty good Archer for what it counts for
Sorry, she's not even remotely average, let alone subpar. I would give her an A rank for sure as a unit.
She's bad for FE7. If you put her in another game, I would definitely still use her. Her early doubling utility and decent growths would make her a viable option. Maybe still not a good one especially when you compare her to someone of the likes of Rutger, but Mani Katti is also a pretty good weapon.
As for bows you're probably better off training another archer. Swords are where its at for her and while it doesn't hurt her to have better bow rank for some of the better ones in case you want that 2 range, and there are instances where it's nice to switch between the two, you're usually gonna end up with silver sword, brave sword or killing edge.
Turns out the best way to gain subscribers is showing all the scrubs how wrong they are
+Arnau Puig
You here witnesses General Mekkkah at work!
Team Lowen. What a damn cool character. Even with very few words. Reliable.
that guy I used to hate lowen on everything, But he has grown to me alot. He has a cool Squire personality and solid bases for a early unit. He also has the highest CON which makes him slow down less from high weight weapons. his only problem is meh growths BUT growths don't matter
ew hentai
The reason why Lowen gets ripped on is because Kent and Sain are there for people interested in growths, and Marcus is there for people interested in bases. He's never the best cavalier/paladin, always at most 2nd place.
His hair is cute
+dD ShockTrooper
Lowen is the ONLY Paladin that can reliably use Axes on Promotion.
Better see myself out.
Amelia is a great unit! She helped you gain a shitload of publicity on your channel.
Man, I had never realized how incredibly rng blessed I had been with my Lyn in my original run when she got defense every single level until it hit cap.
I never bothered to look at Sol Katti's stats. Good gravy what a stupid weapon.
Not that it matters much, it's a weapon that can only be used for the final chapter. Still very usefull to kill the Fire Dragon faster, since it has good crit and thus is more likely to cause more damage than Eliwood does, since he's less likely to crit or double with the Durandal.
Diogo Jorge but crit doesn’t matter when you do 0 damage
What 0 damage? Lyn is always causing damage, even against Generals. And against the Fire Dragon she causes 9 damage per hit, since she doubles it, while Eliwood doesn't, thus allowing her to easily be just as close to his damage.
+Diogo Jorge If you watched the video, Mekkah's average stats 20/10 Lyn does 1 damage to the dragon and gets OHKOd on the counter so you either have to:
1) get really lucky with level ups to get better stats
2) pour multiple stat boosters into her, or
3) grind her close to max level while still getting decent level ups
just so she doesn't die to the dragon, much less deal any meaningful damage
She's not 20/10 at that point. She's 20/18. No grinding necessary, she has plenty of enemies to kill before then.
No stat boosters necessary either. I usually only use the Seraph Robe in Lyn mode to further improve her dodgetanking ability.
She doesn't die to the dragon though, since she has 43 HP at that point. And she usually deals 7-9 damage per hit and doubling, specially since she supports with Hector who gives her a boost in ATK.
Lyn just embodies allot of the dissapointment I have with cool characters being sword locked and/or bow locked. And in certain games, these issues were addressed but I don't think any of them have been sticking. Fe9/10 had those early 1-2 range swords that, if I'm remembering correctly, only really fell off because axes became super accurate and thus made swords very obsolete in most cases. In Fe2/Echoes bows has 1-3 range giving them a superior range advantage at the cost of less durable stats while still not completely crippling the classes that use them by having no chance to retaliate on enemy phase.
Henny Zhi lol. The most ironic thing is that lyn promotes to a bow and sword unit, the weakest weapon types in fe 7 hahahahahaha
Yeah, and it's not even an original class... And Alm did it way better by being beefy and having 1-3 range with bows. :D
FE5 is full of great 1-2 range swords. You get a Light Brand and a Fire Sword in the first chapter.
I think Lyn's two big troubles are...:
- Swordmaster Stats, but no [Cri+15] bonus
- Sol Katti's weight of 14 again Lyn's constitution of 6 (-8AS)
I've been making the Swordmaster argument for years. Lyn is neither a Swordmaster nor a Nomadic Trooper, which is sad because if she at least got a mount she would jump up in the tiers.
Constitution, not Condition
@@Un1234l Ups... Thank you for telling me
Lyn just has such a frustrating design. Nothing ticks me off more than her getting a fourteen fucking weight weapon with mediocre might as her legendary sword. If even a couple things about her were changed (better final weapon, better strength, maybe an avoid stat buff), she could become a top tier unit, or at least one with a good niche. What makes it worse is that she has such a cool promotion class that in theory should fix her issues. Unfortunately, all it does is put her in perpetual mediocrity. The devs put just enough effort into her to tease us with a good unit, only to completely fall flat when it matters most
Those aren't really lyns big issues, even if lyn had +15 crit she still wouldn't be good as guy does have that and he isn't a good unit either and the sol katti is a weapon you only get in the final chapter and athos is the only unit you need to complete that chapter anyways.
Lyn's thighs save lives.
Not her own appearently
I love how all the lords of Fire Emblem 7 are overrated and massively adored except for poor Eliwuss. *Insert sad eliwood portrait*
You talking about MY boy Eligood?!
HOW DARE YOU!!!
*Eliweed
I thought hector was pretty strong. Sure, his res, speed & move are pretty bad, but he's a great tank, and is very stronk
Literally Santa
I’m not saying he’s bad, just that everybody says he’s better than he really is, which is the definition of overrated.
Well, I guess I can get that. I mean, before I decided to look a bit more into characters, I thought that Hector was one of the best units in FE7.
Rather than Lyn being bad, it's more like HHM shits on sword users in general. The reason why people think she's more viable than what she is is probably because a lot of casual players don't play on the hardest difficulty in the game. She operates fine on everything except HHM, especially in Eliwood where there are less peg nights overall. Not to mention you get an energy ring and angelic robe during her campaign, which fixes some of her biggest problems if used on her.
That's the bigger problem here: a lot of units that are fine become garbage on HHM, while units like Raven become crazy good. I mean, if you look at average stats, Lyn passes Guy on everything except HP and speed (hardly matters since they both cap anyway) pretty quickly, including strength. Hell, even with Hard Mode bonuses, Guy is still just basically Lyn without manikatti, bow utility, and less availability. The only thing he has on her is that he can promote early; if you got a heaven seal a few chapters earlier, it would be negligible. Looking at it this way, you can argue that Swordmasters are just a garbage class in HHM anyway since Guy is essentially the best one and he still gets passed by Lyn in most things.
On an unrelated note, does anyone else think a lot of problems would be fixed with her mid game if supports we available during her campaign? That early access to Rath, Kent, and especially Florina (easily a B support, possibly an A by the end of her campaign) would make a pretty big difference I feel.
I don't see this to be the case. In lower modes, Lyn's strengths are even more unneeded and her weaknesses play a bigger part.
On lower modes, enemies are easy to kill, so movement and 1-2 range is even more important.
Cav effectiveness and high speed is less useful becuase enemies are weaker, meaning even more people double.
That still doesn't make her bad on those modes, that makes her less optimal. That's why I said she operates "fine", and she does. She's really not a huge liability on those modes like in HHM and doesnt ever struggle really unless you get really str screwed, which is just bad luck at that point since 40% growth in str is great for a sword master type unit. Like I said, the point is that most casual players never see her glaring flaws unless they are on the highest difficulty because shes just a better Guy with bow access and manikatti on the lower difficulties. She's essentially the dominant choice in her "weight class" (swordmasters) on everything except HHM, and since she's force deployed, people tend to use her anyway. Considering that it takes 3 play throughs to even unlock HHM, and she performs well enough on all except HHM, I would argue that she's not a bad character simply because she does just fine on 3 out of the 4 modes. I would argue that it is HHM that makes her "bad", not herself. Compared to someone like Renalt or Wallace... yea.
I wouldn't even say lyn is straight up better than guy, guy has better bases than her if you haven't played lyn mode and i'n not even counting hard mode bonuses, counting hard mode bonuses at 20/20 lyn will at most have 2 points of strength over 20/20 guy, while guy will be ahead in strength comparatively due to better base, the +15 crit on promotion allows guy to semi-reliably crit with a killing edge whenever you need him to and guy can promote far earlier than lyn which allows him to be a better unit for a bigger period of time, the hero crest competition isn't even too bad since raven joins at lvl5 and his enemy phase isn't too good at that stage so it'll take a while for him to reach lvl10+ and by that point you'll probably have gotten the second hero crest, while lyn competes with eliwood/hector both of which have better overa promotions than her, eliwood becomes a good unit while hector becomes an immovable wall both of which are better than what lyn can provide.
When I got to the final chapter years ago I was happy and surprised to get the Sol Katti as a gift... and then felt utter disappointment when I tried to use it thinking it was actually better than the Mani Katti... " Thanks for nothing, Athos!"
Lyn is best girl, but why is she so small and meek? You'd think a skilled lifelong Sacaean like her would be a little more robust all around with a heftier swing.
To be frank with you, I like Lyn.
She makes for a decent wallpaper.
Why do you have a bloody corpse for your wallpaper...
Excuse me, but are you like 12?
Real men use Amelia as a wallpaper.
+Zad Ras
Are you daft enough to reason with that Madman?
The Rape Face oof lol 🤣
I really appreciate how objective you try to be. If Lyn could do more you'd adore her.
Inb4 Mangs
Please do more videos like this one! This analysis was really well done and detailed, and I'd love to see your extended thoughts on Eliwood and Hector, just to name a few ^^
I feel one thing not mentioned enough is how much Lyn gets screwed over by effective MT only being doubled in America's version of Fe7. To give you an example in that first clip where the cavalier surivived her first attack by 8, he would of died in 1 hit with the standard triple MT. Like wise the Valkyries in Cog of Destiny can fall into one shot with triple effective MT. Lyn's secondary weapon bows also gets more effective with her ability to use up to steel bows in promotion she will one round the majority of flying units save for end game Wyvern Lords but almost no one one rounds them. She can also use the Wyvern slayer to actually damage Wyvern knights before she gets bows which were one of the most troubling classes for Lyn to deal with normally. Triple effective MT benefits all characters overall at the cost of having to be more mindful of enemy effective weapons, but Lyn as well as other speedy sword users especially benefit from them as their abilty to double constanty gives them double the value out of them. Not only does triple Mt makes Lyn's offense much stronger but also helps her durability as she will 1 shot more often meaning she will suffer less counters on player phase. Even with Triple effective Mt she still has her other issues like weak enemy phase in a enemy phase domaniated game, lack of a early promotion option, the ridiculous amount of dangerous lance and magic units late game in HHM and general inability to take hits, she at least will excell out her niche of being an high damaging player phase based unit.
Yeah, that's basically how it is. Lyn's a 1 star unit if you don't play her mode and a 2 star (3 being VERY generous) if you choose to play her mode. Good luck on the 8k, too!
Finally someone who doesn't say: "Lyn's tale make her bad"
2:05 I was just waiting for Lyn to miss. You always have hilarious background gameplay
Moral of the story: Lyn is a bad unit, BlazingKnight was right- wait...
+Doctor Anime
Is there a problem?
+Rishabh Jain
Ballisticians aren't bad.
They carried General Mangs and Radd Quetz during their Attack on Dolhr Keep.
Beck and Jake, to be sure.
+Rishabh Jain
I can't judge Dancers and Bards though.
They are useful in Battle because I can Galeforce an OP unit to attack again.
Their Stats aren't used in Battle anyway so they are preferable in the Back Row and if they are High Level enough, they can be used as Decoy because of their Avo to trigger Ambush Attacks.
+Rishabh Jain
I used my Bard so that Lyn can both attack and seize the Throne on her Final Chapter.
It brought me this rating.
If it weren't for the Funds, I would've just Perfect all of my Tactician Stats.
plus.google.com/113275031495299662481/posts/Y3qLXvFNBwK
+Rishabh Jain
Ballisticians are useful because of their Long Range.
Forged Pachyderm/Elephant + Starsphere = Pawnage
moust important thing is to have fun
Mekkah im going to leave Mangs for you because your spectacular and you amaze me
+Zack Emblem
I mean,
He is the Archsage Mekkkah.
You won't need to train him unlike Mangs.
so what your saying is beating off isnt a stat in fe7
+Napa
Lyn and Karla are THICC!
only in Fates
+The Rape Face
Oh yeah...
I think Tiki and Ninian doesn't count as one.
They barely don't have any paired supports at all except for the Lord/Avatar.
The Rape Face >aging is bad
once a loli always a loli
once you're a loli, you can't be redeemed for your sins
FE7 was my first game and I really loved Lyn, her critical animation is just too cool.
I always train Lyn at least enough to get Linus's Four-Fanged Offense. Both because Geitz>>>>Wallace and because Lloyd's version sucks to play.
I always bench Lyn and Eliwood until that Fargus chapter where I arena train them to death so I'll get the chance to get Geitz
+Zad Ras
It still possible on Eliwood Hard Mode but you need Marcus to wreck sum nubs.
+Zad Ras
If you don't like Marcus that much. Use Kent or Sain who were a pre-promoted Paladin using a Knight Crest on Lyn Mode.
You don’t need geitz, you don’t have to train a garbage, and okay unit to get a good one to beat the game. You can lure lloyd over quickly at range and kill him if you really don’t like the map
@@Bunnymafia8150 Calling Eliwood garbage is kinda harsh, he's not that bad.
I can't believe that this is just 1 year old. And now you have 29.000 Subscribers. Wow!
Congrats Mekkah!
This was super cool to watch! I love learning more about Fire Emblem. :)
Congrats on 8k Mekkah. I know this is just a hobby for you, but your FE content (with occasional uploads of other content) is great. Glad to see more people are seeing that. Just know your vids are greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Also, quick note. I’ve never done this myself, but isn’t using the lyn’s mode knight crest on Kent or Sain not work? If I remember correctly, when used on one of them, doesn’t it get reversed again once they rejoin on chapter 15/16?
Thank you for the kind comment. Kent and Sain's stats should carry over to the next mode you're playing unless they die in Lyn Mode. Maybe you pressed New Game instead of saying yes when asked whether you wanted to continue playing?
Mekkkah Not sure. I haven’t even played Lyn’s mode in over a year. I could be just imagining things. Just wanted to bring it up in hopes someone would tell me whether or not I’m right.
Really great in depth video. I'd love to see one on Roy soon.
I've always wondered why they didn't give Lyn the Mulagir as her ultimate weapon.. and the sol katti should've been made available earlier in like, a side quest or something..
Maybe in a fe7 remake? ;)
Make the Sol Katti actually be a replacement for her Mani Katti with virtually identical stats (maybe slightly better and same weight), Mulagir her final weapon as a Prf weapon for her. Considering she always gets Mulagir now, pretty much guaranteed they'd give her Mulagir in a remake, like how they'd give Axes to fliers now. She never got Sol Katti in FEH or Engage, the only modern FE-related game featuring Lyn that gave her Sol Katti was Fire Emblem Warriors.
ive only recently discovered playing fire emblem with well thought out strategies in mind and man is it addicting to learn about. thanks for making these vids
You are forgetting that she is waifu material and thus gets all the stat boosters making her a good unit in the end.
Even with all the stat boosters won't make a good unit, she still needs another weapon type (that's how awful of a waifu she is, dodge that bullet people!)
Implying Serra isn't waifu enough
The only stat booster she's getting is Seraph Robe from her mode. She has little competition for that one. She turns out good regardless.
Diogo Jorge Ken/Sainadin.
No. They already have plenty of HP. Using it on them would be a waste, they usually get pretty close to maxing HP by lv 20 Paladin. That means that 7 HP boost would go to waste on them.
Another very solid video. I do like that you're not condemning people for using bad units or just not playing completely optimally in general.
Expa0 You're the reason this video existed m8. Thank you.
I doubt my dumb comment really had much to do with anything, Lyn has always been a very polarizing unit. And Mekkah is the one who spent his time and effort in making the video so you should be thanking him.
how did you make a redditz into a 35 minute video.
BUT MEKKKAHHHHHHHH!!!!! MY LYN MAXED ALL HER STATS!!!!! I REALLLY THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION!!!!!!
+The Rape Face
Uhhh...
Lyn can only fight the Dragon with Capped 30 Speed and 50 Def with just a Sol Katti.
Well she is the only unit that can save you there.
+The Rape Face
Any unit can be reliable if their stats are capped so Capped Stats is Borderline the same as Capped Stats Sophia.
It's
a
joke
+The Rape Face
Lyn is good for something and that is 30/30 Speed but since I have Guy, I don't need her regardless.
One time I got her to S-Rank in bows, and she became a beast in the linked arena against friends. Of course, this was like 12 year old me, so i'm sure there's some nostalgia and child logic in that...
FE7: where a sword is almost as useless as a wet noodle
Hey, take that back! Wet noodle can kill and save way better than any sword in FE7
Henrique Peraqui wet noodles don't make lances stronger
It doesn't need to be stronger than a lance when it kills hunger and saves your kingdom.
Not at all. good accuracy and lighter, so they are usually more reliable for certain damage. Also, do try to fight axewielders whitout those, thus forcing you to use the innacurate and slow axe users instead. Falcon Knights are godlike when using swords, since they are no longer held back by the more heavy spears, Florina becomes much more of a dodgetank while wielding one.
Zerobasssoul _ Not FE Related, but I assume by your pic that you are a fan of EO. Its nice to see one of those.
Congrats on the subscriber milestone!
Out of curiosity, Mekkah, have you ever found any FE7 rebalance patches you thought improved the game overall?
I'll be honest. I love Lyn almost exclusively because her battle animations are awesome.
*HOWEVER INTENSIFIES*
Great content man! Love some good Fire Emblem videos. Would love for you to make this into a series.
I always used Lyndis and I never had many troubles with her.
Personal
Experience
Never
Is
Substantial
I don’t normally comment on TH-cam videos but this video makes me really happy, can’t wait to see the 9k sub video Mekkah
Nice.
Last time I used Lyn, she capped almost every stat and was able to guarantee dodge anything without WT advantage. She was so blessed I took the time to train her up to A bows and trivialized the final chapter with the Brave Bow. She took a lot of investiment but actually paid off immediately at chapter 16, thanks to mad luck in Lyn Mode. Priscilla would have done the same job with similar investiment, but much better because of 1-2 range, better weapon type, staves and better movement. Except she was 20/10 with 7 Magic.
Schizophrenic as the first fire emblem wiki entry could it be? "Just give her a killing edge and she will dispatch an entire army all by herself". As lyn fan this hurts me, but you have very solid points, the great problem Lyn has is her really beyond awful initial stats, i mean they always do that with the main characters but Lyn's case is a particularly sad one, especially when you realize Eirika is basically Lyn both in initial stats and growths wih the only exception of having 2 more strength initially, even the creators realized how screwed her initial stats were. Oh well, at least the Mani Katti is an awesome weapon.
It sucks that she's so shafted in fe7 man. I love lyn.
At least Lyn gets more alts than Marth.
Rosenity 5/1
Then again, who *doesn't* get more alts than Marth
Rosenity Every Lyn alt couldve been a Serra alt and that legit upsets me
Just add pantsless OG Marth, the one true perfect Marth
Lol
Finally another video from Mekkah I can watch without thracia Spoilers.
Love these videos!
15:41 *the enemy!*
even flaw Lin shall forever be a favorite.
Popped up in my recommendations and easily liked it. I would be bluntly honest, I absolutely love Lyn as a character, but her flaws are definitely out there.
The only thing I liked was buffing her stats with items and screwing every unit that has an advantage against her (Like wyverns, damn hate those things coming close) and laugh at their faces as I stare at the jiggle physics.
I am a simple man with simple needs :D
Eliwood as far as I've played is easily one of the best, even unpromoted, but still, this really helps, I knew Lyn was bad, but I didn't know exactly how bad
A video that does Lyn justice. Grats on 8k subs
No it doesn't. To do Lyn justice, he would have to aknowledge that she is one of the better units.
+Diogo Jorge
But it does give Eliwood some justice though.
True, Eliwood is indeed a good unit despite his slower start.
+Diogo Jorge
True, Eliwood is really good.
But his Max Speed is just 24.
While Lyn's is roughly 30/30 in total.
However, use the Afa's Drops on Eliwood (if you played Lyn Mode) so that he can cap speed.
If you plan to use Lyn in any mode make sure you set your Tactician to be Wind Affinity - play their prologue on the difficulty you want to play.
I would love the see you revisit this video after your most recent let’s play, now that lyn IS good in FE6. @mekkah
>makes an analysis about Lyn
>mentions CoD Valkyries
Instant like, great video overall Mekkah :D
The question is are Thighs> Guy's stats or literally any merc?
I dislike her because she is in the way of a Legendary Serra
Thighs over Guys. Remember that.
VeryGoodBoy I want Mekkah to heart this
Someone bribe Mekkah with a key out of his dungeon
The question is have you seen a woman before.
also bros before hoes. those who don't follow die.
+The Rape Face
Welp, facts.
@Merciless Freak its fine the new Brave Lys is a budget Serra
Great vid on my favorite unit. Myrmidons to me always have this awkward place in fe. I love them as units, but they're so squishy and being sword locked isn't usually a good thing. What I'd like to know is how should they be used in truly ideal situations. Lyn here has the +Cav&Armor bonus from her prf but your Valk example and the lack of a 1-2 range on an infantry unit makes that really not seem worth it. Hmm......
I'd love to see some good examples on how to effectively use Myrmidons as a whole throughout the FE Franchise.
22:27 Nice
They could have at least given her the swordmaster passive crit bonus, since that's basically what her class is supposed to be. It'd make her a lot more interesting, as she'd be the only unit with a crit bonus that can use more than one weapon type.
God I want to love Lyn but she’s got bad design written all over her.
Mekkah is a teach
He preach
+Ravensburger Bürger
General Mekkah in Fort Mangs is still carrying Mangs.
My main reason for using her is that her promoted Lyn has really nice animations
What I consider one of my big "coming of age" moments as a Fire Emblem player and a person in general was the realization that Lyn just wasn't very good. I was playing through Hector Hard mode for the first time after playing through all the other modes, and I kind of unconsciously used Lyn less and less as the playthrough went on. Then in Chapter 26 Unfulfilled Heart I finally realized that Lyn just wasn't going to be a helpful contribution in a chapter that's always given me trouble, even if I gave her the Heaven's Seal. So, for the first time, I classed up Eliwood before Lyn. For the rest of the playthrough I just kind of... held her back, I guess. Kept her out of the fight, because she just wasn't going to help me on the frontlines.
That was a big moment for me. I was finally able to admit to myself that just because I like a unit or just because a character is fun to use doesn't make them a "good" character. It was still okay to like that character, but it was better if I accepted that they may not be as good as I originally thought or personally value. This in turn helped shape me as a person down the line and my willingness to critique my own opinions, flaws and all, but a large part of that started with Lyn.
Man, it feels like the whole of Hector hard mode conspires against Lyn...Right down to her "ultimate weapon"
Not really. Any of the final weapons don't get to be used much, since it's the final chapter. Lyn is faster and can double even with all that weight, while Eliwood and Hector might have some trouble doing so. As a result, Lyn will usually cause more damage than them with it.
and this is assuming she gets to level 10 in lyn mode oof
Easily done, considering that Mani Katti will just regenerate once she rejoins. Mani Katti is the only weapon she needs for her mode as it levels her weapon rank faster and you can give her Iron Sword to Sain.
+Diogo Jorge
That is her saving grace.
Her defensive stance is really much frailer than Mia's stance.
I would have liked to see the Bow's being added as a secondary weapon addressed a bit more in depth.
A common tactic I use with bow/melee hybrid classes is to attack with a bow to avoid a counterattack, and then bring another unit in to trade Lyn to sword equip, then finish off an enemy with the active unit.
It's still not as good as 1-2 range, since one range is still not being covered, and it requires team support, and it won't completely turn Lyn around, but I think it makes Bow's a better secondary weapon than implied.
Lyn's low Con at 5-6 is also a big issue, but supports that she should probably be using swords and bows. The Iron and Silver Bow are the only 2 range weapons she can theoretically use (silver bow is admittedly not likely to happen) without slowdown, and the killer bow only gives 1 slowdown.
An Iron Lance would give 2 slowdown, a Javelin would give 5 slowdown. If you're taking 5 slowdown (also 10 avoid) you get rid of Lyn's main selling point, and gives even less reason to pick her over Eliwood.
Bow's+Swords are a reasonable way to go for low Con units in my opinion.
I had to feed her Body Rings and Energy Rings for her to have any use -- and even then, Sain outclassed her in everything, even goddamn SPEED!
My first sain was a monster. Got speed blessed and his regular high strength.
Sain is my favorite boss killer.
She doesn't need those to begin with, since Silver Swords and Killing Edges only weight 8 and 7 respectively. Sain's SPD is inferior to her. He has 40% SPD which is good, but nowhere close to Lyn's 60% and higher base. Sain is slightly better than Lyn by virtue of his STR, not his class.
and he can put his higher strength and con to use more frequently and safely in both phases, thanks to his class. he can get to doubling speed soon enough and to the point where there aren't many enemies that only lyn can double.
I see little problem with using Lyn the same way. She can take 3 hits or so from enemies, and unlike Sain, she can dodgetank.
The sad part is that soon after Guy joined I said "Hey, he is more or less like Lyn..."
But I'll still use her because Is my first playthough...
I want to experience by myself how she performs
I always wondered why everyone likes her so much anyways. Most likely it’s one of two things: hopping aboard the “best girl” bandwagon or her plot.
Finally! Someone who can look past the jiggle. She's a terrible unit, a boring character, was the main character in the worst story in the game, is outclassed by every other sword unit (except Karla), yet still she was the most popular female unit for Fire Emblem heroes, among three other bland and boring lords... but she has boobs... and like Tharja, if you have boobs your flaws are ignored...
Unless your name's Oliver.
Mighty Two-Headed Meerkat Oliver has no flaws
Yeah, her "plot" they're a nice "plot" aren't they? They bounce so much.
She's a good unit and looks cool, so it's kind of hard to find an excuse to not use her.
they see a woman for the first time, and think "wow a whamen. i should like rite"
Mekkah you made a mistake at 14:37 . Florina would survive 2 with the stats you have listed at 25 hp and taking 12 damage.
Sadly you were ignored, i am here to comfort you.
Analynsis
*anal lyn* sis
+VeryGoodBoy
Yes...
She is now "useful".
I must have been RNG blessed on my first runthrough of this game because I swear she seemed better than I saw her in this video.
Lyn, more like worse Guy
And Guy is very bad
iLegault HHM Guy is Only Good for chip
Kirk Gregor guy is only gppd cause of the hard mode bonuses, wothput he he is shit
+Delta kai09
My Swordmaster Guy in Eliwood Hard Mode wrecked Fargus using the Support Bonuses.
hey at least guy can ORKO stuff earlygame with killing edge
Thank you for informing me about Lyn in Hector hard mode. She is my favourite character but I would like to beat Hector's hard mode.
You can do so by using her, since there's no shortage of enemies that she excells at dealing with.
At least she's good in Warriors and Heroes kek
She's not even that good in Heroes
She has like, 3 different iterations, 1 of which completely broke the game for a short while and still is pretty good to my knowledge
LoPo mb I assumed you were talking about the base sword unit Lyn. The Blue Tome vers and Bow Cav one's are very strong tho
CrimsonZero Nah, Lyn is the clone
Navarre was intended to be in the base game. They pushed him back to add Lyn in the base game.
That's why the moveset is so dual wield-heavy. Lyn only dual wielded once but that's Navarre's shtick.
warriors is SHIT
and heroes is gatcha fuck it.
also you said heroes.
Wait here. I need to get my cross out...
Your English is very good! You have a strong accent
For Unfulfilled Heart, you could also abuse the Mine Glitch to both get the Uber Spear and disarm all enemies that aren't reinforcements, meaning it's even easier in comparison to the other Force Deploy maps.
True but glitches shouldn't be taken into account when it comes to this .
Tho giving the uber spear to pretty much any lance user is really fun . It's better than the Rex hasta .
+Starwars Fanboy
We are talking about War Strategy Tactics here!
Without using Radd's Mind Control Talisman, that is.
XxxJim_ the_ ReaperxxX
But my fellow Follower of the Radd, surely you would know that RADDQUETZ needs no Talisman to ward his foes!
*F O R*
*H E*
*I S*
*F A S T E R*
*T H A N*
*H E*
*L O O K S !*
XxxJim_ the_ ReaperxxX
And remember, there is only one true strategy for Fire Emblem:
*BUILD*
*AN*
*ARMY*
*TRUST*
*NOBODY!*
Exploits like those shouldn't be used, it's cheating. Otherwise we get idiots like Thesiaoz claiming the game is too easy.
14:40 Florina takes 14 damage, not 12. Is Mangs rubbing off on you?
+Poke GoldMine
Mekkah used Mangs Math.
So something i'm not sure was considered for the video but for Lyn's loadout you could give her slim swords before you have access to Killing Edges. While they don't do as much as the latter the Slim Swords (and the Short Bow which is the slim equivalent for bows when she does eventually promote) they are available much earlier in fact the same chapter you recruit Lyn and the Caelin crew.
I wonder how many players have ever played HHM?
I think this is my only issue with the video. Although Mekkkah makes the point well that many other units are better than Lyn, outside of HHM she performs fine because those modes are quite easy. HHM is tedious to legitimately unlock, and most players have never even experienced it.
it just makes her even less special in the easier modes since her AS lead, cavalry eff, etc becomes less important, and "static" factors like movement and 1-2 range becomes more important since you can ORKO even more things with just javelin/hand axe
I agree. Should have been covered in the video.
Mr. Conquestining Good point! I agree with Mekkkah on pretty much every point here, but there are well known statistics of very few players completing video games and likely even fewer doing it the 2 or more times required to unlock HHM, much less on hard mode in a series with permadeath.
As someone who considers themself a huge fan of FE7, have beaten it 8 times in my life and only just recently unlocked Hector Hard (most of my playthroughs were on a GBA cartridge I no longer own) I can only imagine how few other players have unlocked it much less finished it!
Well, in Eliwood normal everyone is overpowered and can roflstomp everything with the exception of Wil, Rebecca and Wallace, so the discussion is pointless there... If you must make comparisons in efficiency terms, the one with the highest move with 1-2 range always wins every competition, because they can go round the map doubling everything faster, and counter everyone on enemy phase. Which means... Lyn is still not close to the best.
Her promoted version's crit animation is pretty cool though.
I benched Lyn on my first playthrough lol
well done good man
How did you protect Lyn in the chapter with Darin, the Final chapter and the other chapters where she is force-deployed.
?** not hard. just keep her out of the enemy's ranges. there's plenty of safe spots
+TheRedScizor
You sir, are a good Lyn Bodyguard.
+The Rape Face
He's a Good Man.
If he enlists on my Army, that is.
Mekkah, I these analyses are honestly really great. Rather than just give a hot take with shoddy reasoning (which most fanboys and fangirls do), you back up a fair take with strong reasoning.
I don't think there's anything else to add, except for one thing: Chapter 23E/24H, or Four-Fanged Offense. The combined Lord level determines your map and your boss (as well as the boss for Cog of Destiny). I would've loved to have seen your analysis on the importance of controlling your level for Four-Fanged Offense.
Personally, I always go the Linus route, for several reasons:
1) No fog of war.
2) I prefer Geitz over Wallace, for support and usage reasons.
3) The arena is in a more exciting spot, allowing me to battle there while engaging enemies from all attack points. It gives me a chance to use the arena often without spamming or negatively effecting ranked runs.
4) Heck, make it general map layout. Just give me one mounted unit to get to the village at the bottom right, which should be no problem whatsoever.
5) The challenge of using flying units to combat the ballistae and/or ferry companions. (The latter applies to battling Linus or getting to the secret shop.)
6) No fog of war.
Basically, the Linus map is a much more fun challenge for my taste. Plus, I like the Lloyd/Nino talks in Cog of Destiny more than the Linus/Nino talks. So there's yet another reason.
This is likely personal preference over anything else, but I think it's at least a notable talking point. The Lords' level must be 50+ to get the Linus map, meaning Lyn must be AT LEAST level 10 no matter what. And if you hate capping units as much as I, Lyn should probably be higher, so Eliwood and Hector don't have to be capped for several levels. So I use her often... until this point. She's honestly my highest-leveled Lord up until this chapter. After that, she honestly falls to the backdrop.
+Adam Dobrowolski
If you don't like using Lyn at all in Hard Mode Runs then just cap her Levels by 20/20.
That way you won't worry about her being underleveled and you can focus on leveling Hector and Eliwood.
For me, Lyn is like a worse Guy. And I already find Guy one of the worst units in FE7.
+ZXKW
Guy and Raven is good because of Hard Mode Bonuses.
Guy doesn't Crit all the time which makes him easier to recruit.
The only problem is that they suck in Normal Mode so they are optional.
XxxJim_ the_ ReaperxxX
Raven is alright in normal mode. I really need to play FE7 more, as I've only beaten ENM.
Lyn is better than Guy. And Guy is a good unit.
Diogo Jorge
Uuuuuuuhhhhh no
+ZXKW
My Swordmaster Guy who wrecked Uber Fargus wants to have a word with you.