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Video - TWICE Nayeon ‘More & More’ Concept Clip
• TWICE "MORE & MORE" CO...
Audio - LE SSERAFIM Chaewon ‘Burn the Bridge’
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I think it’s also important to note how well nayeons solo did and the type of concept /sound she did. Her solo was a smash hit in kr and topped charts unlike a lot of the groups recent titles and yet that was a cute pop song that was reminiscent of their older sound imo
Yeah! Pop is pretty interesting in all of this, it was kind of like alcohol free where it took a couple of weeks for it to see success on the charts. Pop has some vintage style to it, specifically the brass instrumental at the beginning and the guitar throughout, but it’s a lot less subtle than their other more recent songs
If you dislike Talk that Talk, then you're just boring
I agree 😭 it’s kind of the most representative kpop song of all time
@choujimi and the way everyone went from hating on it to saying how underrated it is now😭. Just wait their gonna do the same with One Spark
I totally agreed❤
@@xaan7458 and they really did the same with one spark..
@@j.m3361 LITERALLY I HATE IT HERE
They've already reached their peak. They don't really need a mega hit anymore but it's obvious that both JYP and the Twice members themselves want another hit.
These points are valid, but personally, I think it's just because they've peaked already (TWICE is my ult group I love em). They don't need the general public anymore since they have loyal fans already. I don't think the general public likes to linger on one thing, they just go to whatever is newer and fresher.
Oversaturation isn't really a factor. Tbh that's one of the reasons I like em. I always get hyped whenever there's a comeback. If a group doesn't release much music, they just become forgettable to me. Like, out of sight, out of mind type of thing.
I do wanna say, it is weird that performance ability isn't that much of a factor to becoming a successful idol. Well, it factors a little bit, but like, most people just go for looks. Singing AND dancing AT THE SAME TIME, LIVE should be the basis of a group's success, since IT'S THEIR JOB to do that. Idk. I just find it weird.
I think they still have the potential to peak again in terms of songs, it just comes down to the style of music. Similar to what happened with Red Velvet, where they hit it big again with the Queendom and Feel My Rhythm releases, but then Birthday wasn’t well-received at all
I love Set Me Free, but I think people are just growing tired of the retro music. 2021 was kind of the last period of the retro style being well-received, especially after the disco-craze that happened in 2020. I feel like TWICE’s retro sound is slowly becoming the next “cute concept issue” for them, and what people are complaining about is essentially them staying in the 80’s influence for the majority of their releases. I think another change up in their image and style will garner a lot of attention, but in the end you’re absolutely right, they really have nothing left to prove and deserve to do whatever they want as a group
I definitely agree with your points about oversaturation. I think TWICE’s consistent releases gained them a huge following, and it’s confusing why people think it drives fans away. The hiatus we’re in right now since Set Me Free is shaping out to be the longest they’ve ever had in their career, so I think it’ll be interesting to see what their next Korean comeback will look like after almost a year of being away
And yeah, the idol discussion is a complicated one, and I don’t think I have a concrete answer for it haha - I think it’s generally a mix of being a celebrity, performer, and an idol. ‘Idol’ being different from celebrity in the sense that there’s an expectation for them to set a good example and maintain their image, and be someone that the general public can idolize
@@choujimi yeah I do think they can peak again, I just don't think they need to at this point. Not saying they shouldn't though. Haha. I'd love to see em get the hype that they were getting years ago. But then again, they don't need to prove anything at this point. I LOVED EVERY SINGLE comeback they had. Esp Talk That Talk and Set Me Free. It Kinda sounded new to me since every other song from other groups sounds the same to me. Or idk if it's just because I'm biased lol. But they definitely sound different from others.
I do agree they gotta change it soon though coz they've been doing the same concept too much now I think.
About the idol discussion, well, I suppose you're right. Coming from JPop initially, it's just weird that it's like this in KPop. JPop was about performances, not about looks. But different cultures must have different preferences I guess. It just kinda bothered me for years. Lol.
You hit the nail on the hammer sis. I don’t get all the over-analysing. They simply peaked, as you rightfully pointed out, and they have been at the top of the game for a very long time now. No one stays at the top forever ! Let’s normalise that please.
they got tired of twice, red velvet, and they moved on to newjeans and le serraffim,
@@frequentiis Le Sserafirm and New Jeans are boring to be honest
I also think they waited too long to start doing solo activities. I remember it being a point of pride for Twice to always do things ‘as 9’, but people forget how much positive attention a single member can bring the group. Like I’m glad Dahyun will begin acting soon, but imagine if one of the girls started an acting career earlier. It would’ve just added on to the hype, especially if they did well! Thankfully Nayeon is doing really well, Jihyo got a lot of praise for her solo, and Misamo did well in Japan. But as individuals they need to branch out from the idol lane to keep public interest via acting, hosting, judging, maybe even opening a solo TH-cam channel? People just need to see them in a new light.
Ikr! They wasted all their prime time and golden era in korea without giving the members what they deserve and without any solo activities and the potential the girls had to be so popular in Korea
I hope TTT will go viral, Its TOO underrated
Some corrections in your opening
1) Ready to Be sold 1.6M globally not domestically. Circle chart doesn’t count only Korean sales this is a common misconception.
Also their albums are selling more because they are making more versions of the albums not because they are growing in popularity (not saying they aren’t growing though).
2) Their recent Kspo Dome concert for the Ready to Be tour didn’t sell out and it has the same tickets sold as Enhypen so there might be some need to worry
3) A lot of songs and comebacks that you said didn’t perform well actually performed very well 😅 “I Can’t Stop Me” peaked #12 and “More & More” peaked #1 on Melon daily Chart. Scientist peaked at #51 on Melon daily which was their worst title track until Set me free. Cry for me isn’t a title track just a single but part of the reason it performed bad is because it had no music video and barely any promotion.
i’ve became a fan of twice when they started shifting away from the cute sound and aesthetic. i’m happy the girls started to experiment on their sound because it created a wider variety in their discography! songs like cry for me and talk that talk are hands down one of my favorite twice title tracks, but it’s a bummer the korean public doesn’t have a similar view point as me and that’s okay. ever since twice started experimenting on their sounds and concepts, they gained a lot of traction internationally becoming one of the top groups on the international side. it’s crazy to see twice going through a similar situation a lot of bgs (mainly 4th gen) are currently dealing with, which is usually having a lower reception in korea, but blow up and do really well on the international side. it would be nice to hear your perspective on twice’s international success!
Yeah I agree with you! In the end I’m so happy they’ve branched out and do what they want to do, so we get songs like cry for me and alcohol-free. Maybe it’s not what’s popular in Korea, but it certainly gains them a bigger audience globally!
@@choujimi exactly my point!! an example of the girls branching out is definitely writing their own songs because i noticed songs like basics (written by chaeyoung), love countdown (written by nayeon & i think wonstein just wrote his verses), up no more (co-written by jihyo), etc. all received so much love and blew up internationally!! honestly, knetz are missing out. so, i’m glad the girls still receive lots of love globally!!
Honestly, from what i saw and gathered then Talk That Talk did EXTREMELY well despite the stacked month it was released in 😅
Yeah! Talk that talk definitely did well, kind of in likeness to Alcohol-Free, but the advent of the other girl group releases in August I guess made it fly under the radar for a lot of people
-VERY LONG COMMENT AHEAD-
It's strange. I feel like I don't hear as much about TWICE from the general K-pop Community as often as I used to anymore, especially now that we are in the thick of what's now the second K-pop generation since their debut, but what's interesting is that they still continue to achieve big milestones and break records to this day. Not only are they still selling out on their worldwide stadium tours, but on the charts they're doing exceptionally well for a group that's been out for nearly 10 years. Careers like that rival only those who are popular in the West and that of a number of soloists I could count on one hand. TWICE has definitely proven their own, and you see it happen again and again. This year alone, their newest album debuted at number one on the billboard top 200 chart worldwide and then Nayeon reached the top 10 ranks with ABCD months later not one week after it came out. Twice is so successful that even singular members within it are finding great success of their own. Very few groups could say that!
Besides, I think a lot of comments have Illustrated the point that TWICE no longer needs to rely on trendiness to be popular. Their fan base is fiercely loyal and dependable, which allows for them not only to do well this long into their career but also have the ability to put out new music without fearing how each release will be received. It's interesting because many would say their best is behind them, but in terms of sales and activity, they break new boundaries every year and remain shockingly active. Practically every year since their debut in 2015, they've put out two or three albums a year. That doesn't even include singles or soloists or their subunit MISAMO! Nowadays, we're lucky if any group remaining from the third gen gives us ONE. And the best part about all of that is that each and every time, they sell. Not just in Korea, but outside. Nayeon’s NA sold out in Target the day it hit shelves.
In many ways, I think of them as similar to SNSD. They released an extremely strong string of hits for the first 10 years of their career and cemented themselves as icons with meaningful legacies in the industry that were generation-defining and still hold their own today. They both are also nine-member groups that have soloists that do quite well outside group activity (Jihyo, Nayeon/ Hyoyeon, Tiffany, Taeyeon). Judging by how SNSD’s career is looking nearly 20 years after their debut, I think it's safe to say TWICE is heading in a similar trajectory, the only difference being probably regarding contracts and group activity. SNSD was very active until they just stopped releasing around 2017. We didn't really get a single from them again until 5 years later in 2022. However, even still, they are announcing world tours as a partial group (More than half of the initial group have departed from SM). I truly and honestly do think every member of TWICE will be under the JYP until at least 2030. They are a very tight-knit family and I don't imagine them leaving one by one. Since 2021, people have been saying “two more years" and here we are in 2024 with them having gone on two of their highest grossing world tours in their career since and still releasing constantly and charting all the time.
It's a shame, though. I feel this year especially, we've been getting really really great content from them. Not even just their music, but with side activity like Time to TWICE. It is so evident they love putting out content for fans, and I think that that's really helped them in the long run with their activity and success as a group.
These are just personal sentiments; whoever read all this has my sincerest thanks!
Totally agree with the music style choices! And you clearly can see POP! By nayeon who is not a disco-retro song did really well in korean charts and even outdid all of twice's songs since 2020 tbh
I think the change in concept was very much needed. These grown up women can't always do cute/girly concepts so I love to see them doing more mature concepts.
First of all it not only represented musical growth but also weeded out THAT part of the fanbase leaving a fandom that is extremely loyal. Their music may not be charting well but it is definitely selling and not to mention that they are able to sell out stadiums all over the world.
I also have to mention the general public which has a huge impact on any girl group early music. When Twice were the new thing in market, everyone flocked to their comebacks but now there are newer groups like IVE or NewJeans that have captured the gp attention.
I feel like even if they aren't charting well, they are still a huge asset to JYP as not all girl groups have this kind of selling power and as I always say, sales count more that charts.
And belive me, the moment Twice go back to the cute sound they will start topping charts but i don't really want that as i love this new direction.
I think part of the problem is JYP promotion, i have read comments of k fans not knowing Twice was making a comeback. I think during the tour the girls commented that the solo stages were concepts they wanted to try so maybe that directions we can see, what they like as well. Maybe in contrast can you talk about why Fancy did so well?
Right now Look at me is really viral in Korea.
Honestly i think they've great pasted their peak. Their dedicated fanbase is still there but the general public just doesn't care anymore
Their sound is just too bubblegum pop for the times rn
One spark is boring af, abcd by nayeon is way better
Twice is evolving with a time and thats what every true artists do
artist who don't evolve with time, endup being bad influencer
tbf, retro has always been jyp's signature sound
I think the members no longer being minors fits because they had a very young cute concept. It’s hard to transition from the childlike sound to something more mature and keep the gp attention. Girls’ generation is the best example of being able to transition flawlessly.
i actually prefer their newer songs like more and more and cant stop me. but don't mind the older ones.
Probably they're not focusing on the local and going global instead.
they got a tour (ready to be) that spans a year and a half for crying out loud
Same!! ICSM is one of my all-time favorite title tracks
@@choujimii thought more of what you said... if i look at the newer and successful groups they dont have the cutesy concept unlike twice. is it cringe in korea? if the answer is yes, its gonna be hard for them to get new fans in SKorea cause their sound isn't like blackpinks (which is really popular -- and non-cutesy) and what worked for them before wont work now that they're older. the only way is to stay this course of older concept which i dont mind. it weeds out those unloyal fans and brings in people who prefer the mature concept. as for me, the lesser the crowd, the more i can get closer in concerts. lol. i do believe their new sound will bring in more people globally
@@jaithber007I'm not sure you're right on, well, any of this? Cutesy has always performed well in Asia, it is definitely still done, if anything girlcrush is on the decline and slowly being weeded out. BP is far more of a global phenomenon than a Korean phenomenon. This is especially true if you look at Japanese releases. Itzy's girlcrush releases in Japan do very poorly, whereas Celebrate by Twice (overtly cutesy) is possibly the largest Japanese release by a Kpop group to date.
I agree with you about the fact that it’s because TWICE isn’t making music just for the Korean market anymore. It just comes with the territory. Even the technique the members of TWICE are encouraged to use to sing from a stylistic standpoint is carefully cultivated to suit a specific audience. Once you take some of that away of course there’s going to be a disparity.
However, I think one of the things that people are hesitant to bring up (and I am saying this with nothing but respect) is that due to the members’ growth, their strengths and weaknesses as individual artists are becoming more apparent now that they’re engaging in solo and sub-unit work. I think this is also affecting their image as a group as well. Within the context of TWICE being a veteran girl group expectations are high and we all need to remember that the members of TWICE are human beings just like the rest of us. Over half of the group isn’t cut out for solo work and that’s completely ok.
They are bigger than ever they just broke attendance records in America and Japan with their album reaching #1 on the Billboard Album chart
Yea. I don’t understand what statistics this guy is trying to build on. Because numbers wise they’re only falling in their home country. Everywhere else they’re actually building still and growing more popular with age
@@topbackpodcast2615 He's probably a hater
About their declined in Korea, i mean who knows, those domestic parasocial minds just cannot be passed as normal. But when it comes to international fans, i think they just need better songs, regardless of the genre. Alcohol free, scientist, Moonlight sunrise, and others like that, to me just sound so generic. However, fancy, feel special, talk that talk, they do have some sort of soulful Magic in their composition. To me, Even tho twice is My favorite group because i just love these women so much... artisticaly a Lot of times the JYP cringe taste feels like it forces things a little too much where it doesn't need to
This is the first time ive ever connected twices decline to their fanbase being perverts. I got into kpop solely because of twice, and it was my girlfriend who introduced it to me. The last songs we both enjoyed were fancy and feel special because despite the concept change, they still kept the whimsical aspect of twice alive, especially in fancy. Since then the only song i felt had the cutesy vibe of old was scientist, which i loved.
Twice is the absolute #1 at cute / aegyo core and they pull it off so naturally till today regardless of whether they like it or not. Their releases since that masterful evolution in 2019 have largely been generic sounding - any gg could pull them off. But no cover of cheer up, tt, knock knock, likey, etc, will ever come close to the originals. I didnt even like alcohol free and see it as a meh song, just like dtna, which is appreciated only for the more mature-looking wardrobe.
the main reason is definitely OVERSATURATION it's like every month they have a comeback or new album, the members having so much content it takes ages to get through 5% of it.
I see this to an extent, but I imagine if this was a huge contributing factor, TWICE probably would've lost steam as early as 2017-2018, where they were releasing 6-7 projects a year. They slowed down in 2019, all the way to where we are right now, which seems to be only 1 Korean comeback a year
The oversaturation of content for fans is a good point, though. It probably seems too overwhelming for any new fans to get on board with the amount of variety content they have produced over the years
i wish every group could have that problem of having so much content 😅
its just not though, twices releases have only slowed down as their chart performance has stagnated.
This is super interesting! I definitely did not care for any of Twice's music until Fancy / Feel Special. I remember the day I watched Fancy on release, I was like, "huh I should listen to more Twice" and now I have their recent mini (With YOU-th) on repeat. That shift in their sound was exactly what got me into their music as an international fan.
Yeah definitely! I know a lot of people complain about their shift in style, but it’s only inevitable for twice as artists to want to explore new territories after establishing themselves. And like you said, I’m sure the change in sound is definitely the main thing that earned twice a lot more fans who wouldn’t have listened to their music otherwise
i as a fanboy think that fancy was the best
As a once who’s been a fan since early 2019 before they started to change their concept,I can agree that they had so much impact in the kpop industry like they were making MILLIONS and started gaining a bigger fan base that time which was a really fun time to be a once.I can honestly understand the shift in their concepts since most of the members are close to 30 than their debut age so they wanna make a concept that fits their age range,but regardless I still think they’re a talented group with potential till this day
They are just like the new songs like eta, gita etc i don't know why people hate the real talent and like the other groups
i’m going to be honest i’m just tired of the disco shit in kpop but i am welcome to newer sounds like please let them do proper rnb again. i LOVED Rewind so much one of the best Twice tracks
there’s a lot of rnb twice bsides. Twice has explored so many genres but y’all listen to title tracks and that’s it
If u like rewind please listen to say something, twice have explored many genres, esp in their bsides
@@lizzyzliz i really liked say something. it sounds like city pop and yukika's music :)
@@hagpill yeah, I really love yukikas music!!
I saw your video and was wondering why you don't speak about the situation where JYP accused Melon of chart manipulation. If I remember correctly this was in 2019 and in 2021 police confirmed this. 2019 was the year when Twice started to not be nr one in melon chart. I don't think it's a coincidence. And another thing that for me is strange is this. All Twice albums had very good sales in Korea. This means a lot of interest in their music. So how come a group with so much interest can't have good chart. So for me I think the real reason isn't in their music. The Melon is the problem. Look at Jihyo. One of the best soloist in the history of K-pop and how bad was for her on melon.
2015-2019 good music; music on repeat
2020 - 2023 bad music; listen to it once
This is just your opinion. If you look at their sales you can't say they have bad music. No one buy bad music. And we can see millions of peoples buying their albums. So the problem is not the music.
@@silvetudose1698 no one buys bad music? Of course people buy bad music, most of western music and artist are trash and a lot of trash films are making billions. I’ll link a video of a trash concert people PAID for down below.
th-cam.com/video/ClCV7WNxzQA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CaucWtiUicRQzvzl
Also, Twice’s music has gone down hill. 2020 & alcohol free was mid tier at best and The Feels was some of the worst music that they’ve released, but moonlight sunrise managed to be worse. Set me free was terrible and the solos were awful.
This is why Twice 2015-2019 prime and they should end it. The members are still mostly likable but the fan base, and any kpop fan bases, are bad. The fan bases keep gassing up the artist when they release bad music, but eventually after so many duds, people stop listening.
Jihyo best solost in history? Based on what? :))
I didn't say best soloist in history. You put in my mouth words that I didn't say, and it's not fair from you. And I didn't speak about jihyo, but about twice in general. If you want to do a research you will find that twice is at this moment the best selling K-pop gg in the world when it comes to numbers of albums sold , and in the history of the K-pop is the second best gg in numbers of albums sold. The first one is 2nd1. My point was that when you have a group that sells so many albums you can't say that their music is bad. No one buy bad music. You can say that you don't like it and I respect your opinion.
Hit the nail right on the head. JYPE is a company largely built off the back of disco, R&B, and Soul music, and it seems like they struggle to get with the times in wanting to stray from it. They're still good songs, but just not what the majority of people want to hear. They have to "set themselves free" from their old ways and open their ears to what people in TWICE's age group are listening to now. IMO, EDM has been all the rage for years now in the West, so it is about time that they take a genre that lends so well to dancing anyway and get TWICE into making festival style dance music. And if they are doing retro, get out of the 70s and get back into the 80s, 90s, 00s. 'Basics' would have been a hit if they went with the multiple releases from one EP formula that New Jeans follows. 'Rush' was the last fan picked song of their Ready to Be Tour and 'Basics' was the first. I know this because I went to both the LA and Vegas stadium shows. Chaeyoung seems to have her fingers directly on the pulse of what's popular now, so they'd be wise to consult her.
what if it's not that complex -- what if the answer is as simple as the gp just dont like their songs? and charting is just based on how listenable the songs are to the korean public. like isnt it just about that? like - they are still fairly popular. like comparing it to RV- their songs chart depending on how good it is. like psycho did well, but birthday not so much. meanwhile BP - they always have high charting songs. cause people just like it.
Probably a bit of a stretch to say they're not popular anymore. Let's face it - there has been such an influx of new, real, superbly-managed talent. And pop music people are always the "hey, what's around that's new?" type of people, right? But see, as the new ones go on to vanish, I'll still be returning to Twice. Not just twice, but thrice, frice, and fivce and more. Just like some people will always go back to Soshi, that's just "home" for them.
Eh. Not too worried. Just watch the reaction that Mina got for a simple photoshoot at a mall in Malaysia. It just seems like the Korean market is very fickle.
I would argue that their early releases are throwaways in both sound and concept. Their later albums really showcase their amazing performance ability and JYPE is doing an amazing job of steering them in the proper direction. ICSM, M&M, TTT...all the way up to their latest release just prove how great they are and what a keen sense the company has to lead then where they should go.
Their "declining popularity" in Korea is irrelevant since their global presence seems to just keep getting more powerful. I love a few of the new groups but they just can't recreate the magic of Twice no matter how hard they try...and the try hard. TWICE is undefeated ❤
absolutely spot on
its how jype handled the whole situation of the girls' getting older as their careers progress.
i would never drop names cause onces are extremely hostile when you say other group names, but there are girl groups that started with aegyo concept that successfully transitioned to mature concept without breaking the core of the group and without breaking the members' image, in contrast, the transition made those girl groups look as if they are maturing with the fans as their careers go forward.
also, mature does not only mean "sexy"/"sensual". there seems to be a misunderstanding within jype or at the least the staff handling twice that they need to do "sensual" concepts next just because they are older now.
i would have stated one group in particular, but i would rather not. that specific group started with an even greater aegyo concept than twice. and i mean, solidly cuter concept than early twice.
all through out the years of that group's career, their music would "age"/"mature" slowly with the members.
not only does the members age with the fans as both grow up in life, their music and concept also age with the members and fans.
that would make it seem that all of it is a very seamless transition.
thats why if you start with their early discography up to the present, it would feel as if you met a highschool sweetheart, then you went through education together, having this more mature relationship with the members next, then some fans would enter the army, after that that group would seem as mature as them, then into that age where theres a more young adult relationship growing, and now as sophisticated ladies with the fans.
twice did not go through that transition.
they just dropped the aegyo concept in a heartbeat because they felt old then proceeded to push through a mature concept in a snap.
for me personally, "the year of twice" is (pun intended) my year of twice. then they just dropped in to a concept that is not my twice. its fine and all and i gave it some chance a few comebacks more, but yah. like the video said... alcohol free was my final saving grace but the comeback after that cemented to me that they are not my twice anymore.
i slipped out of twice after that but then nayeon released POP! thats my "mature" twice image right there. then moonlight sunrise came and yes, that is my twice, all grown up.. its somewhere, hiding under title tracks..
jihyo came in with killing me good, then i understood what jihyo is going for when she said she doesnt want aegyo concepts anymore.
jihyo's album is on my top 5 twice-related album and i deem it as a no-skip.
from then it just clicked on me,
it really is how jype handled the member's aging, getting older and being more mature in real life.
if they just realized earlier that twice can not do aegyo concept forever then slowly built up their concept as they age, they wouldnt have the problem of having "identity crisis"(lack of better term)
additionally, itzy is having the same problem as twice has on the "getting older" part. if they dont figure things out nmixx would have that same problem as well...
niziu is safe since most jpop groups dont change far away from their initial concepts(at least thats what a japanese withU told me)
vcha, at least from their songs now, would have the same problem if not harder, mainly because of age gaps between the members.
im posting this here because this seems to be a fandom-equal zone... peaces and white flags to any onces reading this. no offence nor attack meant or anything along those lines
I'm curious, and you don't have to say if you want to remain anonymous - are you talking about gfriend? haha
I agree with your points about TWICE transitioning kind of abruptly. 2018-2019's transition was gradual, but 2020 did something completely different. I made a video about More & More's sudden departure, why it was so decisive, and how that probably left a bad impression with a lot of kpop fans
While I do think we can cleanly blame JYPE for a lot of things, I think it gets kind of muddy as to how far we can go with that - how much of this is JYPE's decision, and how much is it just TWICE wanting to do what they want with a greater sense of creative control? The members have revealed before that they now have a lot more say as to what song will be the title track, and the visuals for the albums. Like you said about Jihyo, TWICE's sudden change to a more mature concept might just be the decision of the members who were seriously tired of the cute concept by the end of 2018 haha
@@choujimi just came back from your other video hehehe, and read all through out the comments as well.. really great job on having a mature community here.. i have never seen the comments section of any kpop related video be this mature and have productive convos ^_^
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now, the thing is, we can not fault the members for aging and growing up. its a human thing to change. no one could escape growing old. it is what it is.
personally, most of the things you said on your more and more video did not hit me as much as other onces that time while it was happening. for one, i was growing old with them at that point. and though i said that they are starting to not sound like my twice after the year of yes, i did understand what, why and where they are going.
imo, they were supposed to have a few more comebacks with the "chick" concept instead of the sudden jump of more and more.
in my eyes, the "sudden" change was triggered by the incident before feel special, the thing with sana during fancy era.
for that statement to make sense, we have to look at jype(the company) and jyp(the man himself). we dont know whats happening inside, but we do know that jype is a business, therefor would do business-y things. people tend to forget that businesses that size has a complex inside politics. (and yes, those are real and not just on kdrama)
while jyp, is the man that most of jype artists look up to. even former jype artists straight up defend the man.
so yes, there are three parties on the conversation, including twice.
coming back to twice and about your point about the members
1 - legally, the period they started to be vocal about their stance is while jype-twice are having their talks for the contract renewal.
2 - that said, it was pretty obvious that they were getting most of what they want even before that, as long as they dont break the, at that time, still existing contract.
i can not, even for a minute imagine that jyp did not try to protect sana when the fancy thing happened.
after that was mina, and we all know that mina is jyp's fave member even before seventeen.
then jihyo with kang daniel, momo with heechul etc
its as if they needed to "fast forward" the transition from aegyo concept to mature concept so they could land their feet on their ground and make a stand that the members are now ladies that could stand on their own.
jype does not have a solid rebutal to not let them. twice was, and still is, the biggest girl group of jype, and they are technically not breaking any clauses on their initial contract, plus jyp himself backing them up
so yes, imo, the members do have a lot of voting power, but that is still under the assumption that jype the company would agree to it.
but no, the problem of not thinking ahead is still under jype. again, people do change as we grow old. we are humans. on that, who ever thought that doing aegyo concept would last forever?
1 - if not, then "the transition as they age" should have existed year 1 or at the most late, year 3. unless, they never expected twice to grow that big (wonder girls, missA arguably did not outgrew their initial concepts)
2 - as powerful twice's voting power is regardless of before or after the re-signing, at the end of the day they are just artists on a company. people are severely overestimating artists position in terms of business decisions.
itzy has the same problem of outgrowing their initial concept and is now facing a dillema. difference is, they do not have the same voting power as twice.
if twices problem was not on jype's management side, then why is itzy suffering the same exact problem?
nmixx on the other hand is a very interesting topic. i strongly believe that the "change up" concept was a bold gamble on a voting like mechanism that jype+jyp could only pull off.
in that way, not only nmixx outgrew their initial concept, they are meant to out grow it on the first place.
also, i am under the impression that one of the new agreement on twice's new contract is that they would not be releasing too much comeback for the sake of "competition" anymore. that they are trying to pass the torch already to their younger sister groups. that they are prefering to spend time with onces, therefor more concerts and such. that they are more free to diversify themeselves wherever they want as long as it would not break the "9 or none" mantra.
one thing i could call unfortunate though is that, the members started their solo/unit endeavors pretty late, mainly because of the mantra that made them strong on the first place.. its no ones fault, but its unfortunate
i ofcourse am i just stating my observations. by no means am i saying that i am correct or not correct. if anything all of them might be wrong and i have no intention of defending them :p
what i do believe in the end is that, given the reigns, the members are shining more imo. maybe not on sales or charts or whatever, but, we are seeing more of their own personal beings and individuality. and i would take that anytime over some marketing plot.
now about the other group... how bout make video about groups succesfully transitioning on different concepts? ^_^
(i know this one is messy and all over the place, would try to edit later or something ^_^)
I don't believe I live underground or in a cave, but this is my perspective as someone who doesn't pay much attention to the drama unfolding in the K-pop industry. Sometimes, when we immerse ourselves too deeply, we can misjudge and become confused by the atmosphere or situation. Trust me, their popularity isn't widespread; it's confined to the inner circle. Outside of that inner circle, millions of new fans genuinely enjoy their work.
Like i really like their old releases but also if they continued doing the same concept over and over i probably wouldn't even be a once i like when artists grow with their music change in every album but idk why in korea they don't like artists when they experiment in new genres and styles
Why are fans so obsessed with charts and numbers? Just listen to twice regardless of fame
I wonder how this post is doing now? 😂 After the Successful RTB World Tour that had 23 shows in Asia alone, 16 in North America, 5 in Australia, 5 in Europe, 2 in South America, 51 in total with over 565,000 ++ in attendance, and their most recent album "With You-th selling over 1 million copies within its debut week, yeah..... i guess they're not too popular anymore 😂😂😂
I spoke about their impressive success via touring and album sales in the video. I like your username!
more and more literally reached no.1 on melon ??
These long winded think-piece comments are so odd to me. The answer is so simple-Twice is in their NINTH active year. Since their debut there have been countless new girl groups, including 2 more in their own company. Twice no longer receives the same amount of promotion and advertising from their company because they already have a self-sustaining fanbase. Also, the industry has changed so much since their “peak,” but their popularity helped contribute to that. Twice will always be one of the 3 biggest groups in kpop, but a wane in popularity is to be expected when you’ve dominated for that long.
Agree so much wih your points:
-To me is soooo weird and honestly creepy how grown men are always fans of gg when they are young. The younger the better it seems; and once the members start to be 25 years old they move on to another even younger group, like wtf! As a fan who is woman, that always made me sooo uncomfortable. Now I am seeing the same thing but with LE SSERAFIM. High-key I am happy that those kind of "fans" left and now TWICE has fans who actually likes them for them and their work.
-As anything, I also think that as time goes on and 4gen came, the general public just move to the new groups. This is just how kpop (or any industry,honestly) works
-I also think that overall their singles pre-Fancy are better but their b-sides post-Fancy are better. Maybe that could be a factor
-Their fanbase is also growing up with them, meaning they are adults now and the way an adult consumes kpop is reeeeally different as to how a teenager does. The crazy hormones help in making teenagers live and breathe kpop. When you grow up you are normal about it. I can see this same effect with other groups like SNSD,SHINee and Red Velvet. Their sales and fans are still there but they dont go viral like newjeans or IVE,for example
I think Twice is growing as an artist and you know how knetz only like the new and fresh hype
I hope their next comeback after with youth will be leaning towards the korean audience
I'm not worried for Twice...If they're losing popularity why is Nayeon's solo comeback so popular?
And btw talk that talk did have the potential to be one of their most successful comebacks but the timing wasn't right at all. Especially with the 4th gen being to master the Korean music industry
I think Korea is moving on. Twice isn’t the shiny new thing anymore. Twice’s sound is retro-y and almost classic late 2010. The new groups are experimenting with hyperpop and DnB. However the western world seems to love them. I think there’s no more success to be found in Korea anymore so they’re going global. Honestly twice needs to develop their sound more and stop releasing so much and their content practically blends into each other. Their releases are really safe and don’t seem to push any boundaries. They’re that group that has veteran status trying to fit in with the mainstream kids. It would be a dream to hear an experimental or hyperpop-style album or even ep from them,,we can only dream
YES the over 18/change in concept from "girly" to more mature. its so gross but such a common thing that happens in kpop
also i personally love their disco theme and scientist is a good song. i do not believe they should go back to the cute concept, they should do what they want
a lot of people were saying that their lack of popularity is also due to a perceived "westernization"-- do you believe this too? im curious what everyone thinks of that, but i personally think its incredibly untrue considering the groups/songs that have gotten popular recently definitely have a western influence and/or a lot of english lyrics. but then again, those groups also have many minors in them....
My opinion is that: Twice began their streak of "worse" songs in the most sensitive time they could for their career (2020-2022): their ultimate rival of that time, Black Pink, is still breaking records, new groups emerging, old groups gaining attention. It all started with Feel Special, which was by no means a bad song, but it's a very risky move musically-speaking. Then More and More came and it was even worse. A time like this wasnt a good time for experimenting, itz a time to cement your foothold in the industry and i felt like JYP had too much confidence in them at that time.
Since Feel Special, JYP had that trend of cutting parts in Twice's songs to make them sound shorter (like shortening verses in Scientist, I Cant Stop Me, Feel Special, Set Me Free, or shortening choruses in Talk That Talk) but it came at a cost of the music flow and it became my recurring problem with their music lately (not enough buildups, not complete enough). The most normally-structured song they had for Twice is Pop by Nayeon, which ended up being their most successful song since Fancy!!?
I understand this. The whole short song trend ruined Twice. Most of their songs have this weird and quirky buildup to a very boisterous chorus. Well, I do think ICSM and Alcohol Free is a full song in its form. Some of their tracks always lack certain elements, i.e., More & More does not go as hard as it initally build; Scientist is kinda monotonous; Talk that Talk felt like there should be two choruses; Set Me Free lacked layers in the instrumentation. I still love their songs but it's not going to be on full repeat.
right and sadly, companies conform to these audiences and force their groups to go the young and sexy route. i'm just glad Red Velvet slowly matured their songs without being erotic. Never mind the fanbase whose just there to ogle. kpop should be catering to fans of music and showmanship.
As someone who became a Once in his 30s, I love that Twice keeps maturing and trying new things. My first kpop song was "Dreams Come True" by S.E.S. so I've seen my share of groups come & go-- Korea just prefers newer artists, in general. SNSD, Red Velvet, Kwan Boa... even the absolute best idols start to lose popularity as time passes. Girl groups also get less publicity and resources than boy groups because the female fanbase is the most reliable in all of kpop, & the ladies tend to like boy groups; that's also how groups like Exo & Shinee are still around and selling well while legends like f/x or 2NE1 are almost forgotten by the general public.
I'd also factor in that during their domestic decline, they were on 2 world tours. A lot of Twice's early success was bolstered by the fact that they were EVERYWHERE on Korean tv at the time: they were on a classic episode of Running Man, they did Amazing Saturday and Weekly Idol a *lot*, they competed in the ISAC, Dahyun was a pretty popular variety guest host , etc. Plus , there was "Twice TV" then "Time To Twice". That high visibility really helped them connect with a larger fanbase than just the songs would have, and like you said, there are a unique combination of factors involved in any idol's popularity that go beyond the music. When I hear "Newjeans is everywhere", I chuckle, because that's exactly why they're so popular right now.
I always thought the idea of "retro" songs being the problem might be a bit off the mark, since Newjeans is just doing a modern version of the R&B that was popular on Black college campuses in the 90s (30 years ago) and "Y2K" concepts and songs (which are now roughly 25 years old, too). And that's before we add in how popular disco-influenced artists are in Korea. How many shorts has Twice made to Espresso by Sabrina Carpenter? lol
My biggest complaint about recent Twice is that the choreo feels a bit uninspired. For me, it started with "Hare Hare" and has continued through "ABCD". With Tiktok challenges becoming a huge part of an idol's reach that also drives fan engagement, underwhelming dances can be more of a killer than they might seem at first blush. I thought I was getting tired of the Kiel Tutin choreography, but now? I say call him back lol
Hmmmm 🧐 this topic is incredibly intriguing to me, cuz what even is the word popular for this case?
Is it popularity within korea? I don't think so cuz as you stated korea still hold twice on a pedestal in terms of popular kpop groups among the demograpic the group was set on from the get go, i would also say alot of twice's of popularity comes from the fact that twice's cuter concepts that were originally held by gg, wonder girls and beyond that helped stance themselves among the korean public
Is it popularity within international fans? 🧐🤔🤔 Maybe, for your average international kpop fan who loves how many genres you can get from kpop alone, i think twice's sound (even tho its gradually shifting from cute to more cute mature and nostalgic feeling) i do think if you know twice just song wise, some portion of international fans may not like the staleness of their songs sound wise
But then again idk i still find twice to be incredibly popular regardless just cuz the groups under them will now have this pressure to be as good as twice in terms of popularity, quite an intriguing question tho!!
i rlly think that with youth is their last release before going back to a concept similar to fancy, because jype has already seen that vintage music doesnt sell very well, and i personally think that since jyp (the idol) stoped producing twice songs as a group their title tracks have been so much weaker, their bsides are getting constantly better, but the title track is the image of the comeback, and at this point they just seem sloppy, bcs tell me why as subunits or solos they get bops but as a group their songs are getting worst, and i also feel that theyre getting less popular bcs most onces became onces in the 2020-2021 era, so theyre falling out of love with twice because of their meaningless and comercial songs
grown ass military men being majority of twices fan base ....... is so..... but ok......
This accusation is absolutely ridiculous and has no basis. In addition the members not being comfortable with the "cuter" has more to do with the fact that they themselves dont like doing the "cuter/aegyo" because it makes them cringe.
their concepts are non existent lately. I think jyp just stopped caring
Honestly saying, i love the way the bsides have been recently
Infact most onces feel a certain bside would make a better title
We all know how great moonlight sunrise, cry for me and the other more maturer songs like wallflower, crazy stupid love, last waltz, icon, Espresso have done
Not to mention Misamo's do not touch and the songs they wrote themselves (esp funny valentine), and Jihyo's closer
All these songs are smash hits among the international fans, and i feel its about time we get songs that we like more than what jyp assumes korea likes
Idt there's even 5% koreans in the fandom anymore, there's probably as many indians now as koreansz def more mexicans and brazilians than koreans, even more Americans and like ⅓ of the fandom is Japanese
So yes, we deserve songs that compliment these other places. In the new album Bloom and Rush are fan favourites
So yea..... I need another wallflower or moonlight sunrise but as a title
Tbh 2021 and 2022 were the best eras for twice
Late to this video but,JYPE is marketing TWICE internationally,they have others groups for KOREA,have you seen the sold out 5 WORLD TOUR everywhere,
The audience now is a lot more 50-50 on gender terms
But then nationality of the male gender has changed drastically
We wont from all of korea as fanboys to Japan, Brazil, America, India, Australia having the most fanboys
(Yes, the indian fandom is surprisingly male even tho 99% of kpop fans here are girls, I'd say around 20% of indian onces are male)
But yes now the female demographic is definitely the majority
in brazil there are more female onces than male actually
@@misanayeonz ya but if not mistaken there are a lot of fanboys too, more so than for other k-fandoms
@@Kokila_Parag_Modi yessss there are a lot of fanboys too, i would say it is 70% fangirls but 30% fanboys here (and also most fanboys from brazil are from de lgbt community, i would say 98% of them)
@@misanayeonz AHAHAHHAAH most fanboys here in india are straight, most fan girls even
I think it's like 80% girls 20% guys here
Most other k-pop fandoms here are like 99.8% girls 0.2% guys
@@Kokila_Parag_Modi fangirls are mostly straight here too
its their music and appealing to the west with music the west isnt even interested in
This really bothering me, but isn’t I can’t stop me synthwave and not disco?? Lmfao 😅
Wait I just realized it’s both lol
@@bbi2.052 Haha yeah! I think it's technically listed as both of them
See i feel lile theyre declining in korea but they have been reaching bigger peaks worldwide and are getting globally more famous by the day so we won at the end
Why go after one cpuntry when u can go after idek how many lol
First of all you can't compare 4th gen idol Korean success to older generation.Koreans loves new girl group but you if wanna stay longer on Korean market you have to show them you are real perform er and you can sing live.Just look at all BTS members solo flopped on Korean chart except JK.Korean have different standard than global fans.Twice end was their 2019 encore live
All BTS members songs performed very well on Korean charts however Jungkook performed the best because it had the American pop sound that South Korea loves. A lot of people say it’s similar to Charlie Puth who Jungkook looks up to and who is very popular in South Korea. I do think singing can be a factor but singing live has nothing to do with a song’s performance on charts
Jm did well too with like crazy Idk what you’re talking about
It's just that you did extremely well
@@cobblerpudding6292 Why are lying? Apart from Seven none other BTS soloist song entered top 5 or even top 10 on any Korean chart.Also none of them can live and Korean knows that very well.
@@csam9993 He couldn’t entered top 10 on any Korean daily chart so i don’t think which chart you were talking about?
@anintrovert5302 all of them were charting and it's good for male soloist bcz korean hardly listen to boy group,
Regarding their performance in Korea, here is a great example.
Red Velvet sold out 2 consecutive nights at the KSPO Dome in Seoul ten minutes after tickets went on sale.
Not long later, Twice played 2 nights at the exact same arena.
Neither show sold out. The second show had over 3,000 empty seats.
Historically, Twice has always outsold Red Velvet
I think KSPO is a little unique, since the concert date came less than a month after they ended promotions for Set Me Free, and konces were upset that twice had focused most of their promotions in the US. It became such a point of controversy that some of the members ended up apologizing over it. With that working against them, as well as Set Me Free performing so poorly on the charts, I can see why they struggled to pull numbers
@@choujimi It's not like either of Twice's English singles did well in the States, either.
They reached 86th and 84th place on the Billboard Hot 100 and were both gone the following week.
Not exactly setting the world on fire.
New Jeans' Korean releases were charting higher and longer.
@@riffgroove We weren’t talking about international performance, but okay- With your great example about concert venues, Twice became the first girl group to sell out NFL stadiums in the US, like sofi and metlife, for two consecutive tours. They also ended up adding two more encore performances at the California stadium venue, both of which sold out again
@choujimi That's not really much to brag about when those stadiums happen to be in the most densely-populated cities in the country. Especially a coastal city like California where there is such a huge Asian population.
Brag about selling out an arena in Peducah, Kentucky and I'll be impressed.
@@riffgroove I’m trying so hard to understand your logic… you brought up the KSPO dome venue, which is in one of the most densely-populated cities in the WORLD. That was your “great” example, yet it doesn’t apply anywhere else? 😭
I genuinely appreciate seeing your comments, though the hypocrisy in your fixation on twice is so intriguing to me. I guess I want to ask this: what do you want me to take away from all of this? The arguments, minimizing their accomplishments, and the statistics about them that you bring up?
Here's my take... that no one cares about... 9 months later.
Korea's K-pop scene is all about that rollercoaster of new things. TWICE is a pillar that's been around for 10 years. They've changed their sound, yeah, but they aren't that fresh new thing anymore.
TWICE doesn't ride trends and do their own thing, and K-Pop is all about trends. When Korea likes something, they like it to death. So if you're not on that trend, you'll get less attention.
Korea views TWICE as more Global now, which they partly resent. They used to be called "the nation's girl group", but now they feel like the world has took TWICE away from them. They also might think that TWICE views global success more important than catering to them.
Korean ONCE may have grown up and moved on. There's a reason why groups usually last such a short time, and one of the factors is that their fanbase has either found something new or grew out of it. (I'll also agree with the male demographic argument. Looking at the fandom now, I think it's more equally split with girls/woman might having the edge on being the majority now...I don't have numbers, but that's the feel I get)
TWICE is seen as a legacy group. While that's fine and all, legacy groups cater to already established fans and rarely pick up new fans. Because of their longevity, newer fans might be harder to come by simply because of intimidation. ONCE is huge, don't get me wrong, but a middle schooler is more likely to spend all their time streaming over and over than someone with a job or going to uni.
And this last point is something I want to elaborate on: TWICE's sells are only getting bigger and I believe that's because their fanbase have the money to afford all their stuff. The charts might have dropped because their fans can't be bothered to stream constantly, but they'll throw money at them. In the end, the long game is making money, not chart numbers. TWICE making more money is a good thing.
you are deffo right. no ine cares about your take
Every group went through this. But they don’t tour around the world. Plus every group DONT chart well rn
Others: I dont like TWICE
Me: Saa, omae no tsumi wo kazoero! (Now, count up your sins!)
Even though Twice was so popular, I honestly don't know why. But other Kpop group need to shine too and Twice members are getting old. I don't hate Twice, its more like they've done what they had to do, they showed us what they can do. Honestly they don't really have nothing else to do. Twice was a great group and popular kpop idol, but they weren't 100% perfect, there was also a lot of haters too.
Their concept changed but the music got worse too, the only decent comeback was fancy in their mature concept.
Agism
Umm.. about outgrowing their initial audience.. everyone was a twice stan back then and girls were obsessed too. I was a fangirl and is not the same twice. Even if the songs were "cute" before they were musically interesting catching and w character. Their last releases feel empty af. The "mature" songs/concepts arent done right and i dont think twice has the versatility to pull both concepts w the same ease. The "cute" concept concealed a bunch of "lack ofs" some members and made you adore the songs and the whole. There should have been a transition maybe or idk.. it just didnt sit right w me as a long time stan, not ONLY bc the concept change but because it wansnt pulled off very well. The members also lost their charm imo. I dont know if it was braces or surgery or fillers or what but they look bad imo. Theyre not ugly but they dont look special anymore theyre just "regular" pretty idk how to explain. Even if they attempted to do a cuter concept now i think ppl and even longtime fans wont find it the same. As a girl stan twice were like trend setters. Nothing they do now would be looked up to. As a whole just downgraded.
they still r popular tf u on abt
I guess you didn’t watch the video 😭
Not as popular as they used to be though
People love to doom post about Twice when they’ve literally filled stadiums and reached 1B streams this year
Bro the volume of your voice is waaaaay too low T___T
They gone downhill after Talk that talk tbh. Set Me Free was confusing and One Spark was mid.
Bro twice is so popular what are you talking ‘bout
We used to get 100m in m/v less than a month, time flies :
Lets say i witnessed there rise and 16 show, and there rise. But now i don`t follow them. They are to boring for me, like they lost there *ligh* for me. Videos are boring and clips too. There so many new fresh groups. They are to old too.
Bye Bye twice
I don't really care abt popularity but the song suck tbh , misamo and jihyo solo 😢