Jim Steinman and Meat were pure magic together. I can't imagine one without the other. I'm not sure Meat ever could either. He sure didn't stick around long after Jim left us.
I'm always glad to see people celebrating and supporting Steinmsan's immense legacy. He's still so poorly known among the general public, so godspeed! You're doing important work.
I don't see why people won't be able to hear this music in future generations. His music is everywhere. You can't really escape from it. The question is whether people will come to realize it's all composed by the same person. To me, he's like a classical composer, like Beethoven, Puccini. I hope as a writer he will be acknowledged on that kind of level. Just listening to something like "It's All Coming Back to Me Now", I can see why he would be.
Well done.....! Enjoyed this immensely. Have also wondered about the connections between Steinman's early work and later projects. You really fill in the gaps. Many thanks for putting this together.
Fellow massive Steinman fan, and on the younger side of the fandom too (33). I've done the same rabbit hole digging myself but never made a video on it. Thanks for the great vid!
So wonderful to find another person who know and love Jim Steinman and Meat!!! I,too, was incredibly sad to discover that Jim had passed. He was at the top of my “People I Want to Meet” list for decades! Thanks for this great video on the background of his songs. 💕
An excellent offering. Thank you very much for putting this together. I think the only thing I would add is that, I think in 1980, Jim wrote the score to the movie A Small Circle of Friends, a very forgettable movie that romanticizes Vietnam-era college life, but when you listen to the overture, you very distinctly hear the melody that would become Making Love Out of Nothing At All. Oh, and by the way, Two Out of Three Ain't Bad is the most honest love song ever written. Been saying that for thirty years.
Love this! Thanks for doing the legwork here. FYI, there’s a 3rd version of “A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste” that is covered by Meat Loaf. It appears on the “Whistle Down The Wind” album (different than the cast recording) and is also on “The Essential Meat Loaf” compilation. 16:04
There's yet another version of "A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste" based on the first version recorded by the Everly Brothers, recorded by Gina Taylor, probably for the Pandora's Box album. You can find that version on TH-cam.
Out of the tracks that you mentioned in this video there is one that I noticed that was not mentioned and that's Making Love Out Of Nothing At All that did indeed make it into the Bat Out Of Hell musical which was first released on Air Supply's Greatest Hits album and would later be done by Bonnie Tyler. I don't know where many of the origins from that song came from, but it's also a major important piece of Jim Steinman's work as well. Other than that your video was pretty informative to say the least.
OMG i've always wanted someone to do this. I am so glad that meat and jim meant so much to you. I love that you include streets of fire and pandoras box
Though I like Steinmans work I am getting fed up with the shoutiness of it all so its nice to hear original versions where the songs are more restrained and often have a country vibe
@@themadmattster9647 My lass wasn't keen on my taste in music though turns out Steinman worked on all her absolute favourite SOM tracks. Which was sweet. :)
Thank you for this video. Jim and Meatloaf were underated geniuses. Those of you who don't know them, you've missed out. I've been privileged to spend my teen years listening to Jim's productions Extreme, sardonic, operatic, enigmatic Jim Steinman.
Haha, for me it was actually weird to hear the songs in English after hearing them in Tanz der Vampire (my first introduction to Steinman). xD But that musical is what made me fall in love with Steinman's music. And Steinman will stay special for me, so thanks for taking your time to make this!
Thank you for the history Lesson. I started as a Meatloaf fan as a child of the late 70's and 80's with siblings who were teens in the late 60's, 70's, and 80's. So I always aspired to their musical tastes. I remember halloween 1994, getting Meat's Bat out of Hell II Tape, back in the cassette days. I was addicted to it, and it started me down the path to devouring everything he put out, to learning about the man who actually wrote the music. I never knew about the Dream Engine until this video, and hearing "Turn around bright eyes" in The Formation of the tribe was a 'Mind Blown' moment for me. To hear the origin of that Iconic line from Bonnie Tyler's song, sung by Rory Dodd in the original, to hear it in a new light, was a spiritual moment. I lamented Jim's Passing in april 2021, and then Meat under a year later in 2022... Two integral facets of my youth that I shall forever carry close to my heart. :) Thanks BryerHimself for this video.
This video and it's attempts at origins is absolutely fabulous. Thanks so much. I'll now go down my rabbit hole to add things learned here to my Steinman collection.
Hey there Bryer, just found this awesome job of yours. I made a spreadsheet out of it for cross listening (for the fun of it). Still, apart from Nick's 'Dream engine' remark below there's one chronological puzzle left that I couldn't find in your chronological Candy Land: you mention some 'Bat out of Hell' tracks as originating from 'Neverland', but I have never found the answer to how exactly that worked: 'Bat' was supposedly recorded over 1976 (I'm told) and 'Neverland' produced in April 1977... I understood things went from one to the other, but I never found a conclusive chronological answer to this puzzle. All I know is that both finally came together in the 2017 musical, just as you pointed out. Thanks for this!
Well done. I've noticed many of Steinman's songs share many similarities with his other works. My older brother gave me a Bat out of Hell tape back in the 80's and I was hooked. It wasn't until the internet age that I put Steinman's non Meatloaf song like Total Eclipse and Making Love out of Nothing at all. Then one day I watched Streets of Fire and those two songs struck a chord and I saw Steinman in the movie credits. Steinman & Meatloaf - their music was my youth. RIP guys
You can recognize a Jim Steinman song within the first three notes. His theatrical, Phil Spector wall of sound writing is unmistakable. Plus, almost every song he wrote is a retread from Neverland his dream musical that he never wrote and I really wish we could see.
I was 16 when I realised I wasn't in love in Meatloaf, I was in love with Jim Steinman. I found the score for 'Bat out of Hell' in my local library (that's what we did before the internet - looked it up in books), and I thought 'Words and music by Jim Steinman? Who the hell's Jim Steinman?'. And now, we have all this this. Thanks for putting it together.
The Whistle Down the Wind soundtrack has tons of re-uses including "Tire Tracks and Broken Hearts" and several of the songs are later repurposed on the Dance Of the Vampire works. And besides the London Cast 2-CD recording of Whistle Down the Wind, there was another "Songs From" sung by various artists include Tina Arena, Boyzone, Elaine Paige (her version of If Only is wonderful), Donny Osmond, The Everly Brothers, Boy George, Bonnie Tyler, Michael Ball, and Meat Loaf.
Great video - deserves far more views I think Steinman is officially creditted as co-writer of More ...wikipedeia says "The song was co-written and co-produced by Andrew Eldritch and Jim Steinman. " IIRC correctly on the Top Of The Pops peeformance here in the UK the backing singers included a few women that also appeared in Pandoras Box Another little song missed was Bonnie Tylers Ravishing which I believe was also used instrumentally as some Hulk Hogan theme song Requiem Metal from Original Sin was also used in a car advert - Ford IIRC
Specifically, Jim contributed the chorus: "And I need all the love I can get/And I need all the love that I can't get too/to..." That's the only bit he reused in "Batman".
Very comprehensive, I take my hat off to you. The only thing I saw that wasn't mentioned is very minor. Meat Loaf's cover of "Nowhere Fast" actually has completely different lyrics (save the chorus) than the version in Streets of Fire. Other than that you seem to have covered all the bases. Well done.
You never mentioned Bad for Good at the beginning, sadly Bad For Good was never recognised as much as it should of been. But I have to say that Bad For Good was my favourite album.
Thanks for the laughs! He wrote a song for Barry Mannilow: “Read Em and Weep” and one for Air Supply: “Making Love Out of Nothing at All.” The latter sounds like a vampire inspired song and has a bit of Jim's signature theatricality. I would say he probably repurposed both songs.
"Read 'Em And Weep" was recorded first by Meat Loaf on "Dead Ringer", and then Jim reused it for Barry. The music for "Making Love..." had been around for a while. You can hear parts of it in his movie score for "A Small Circle of Friends". It also shows up in a song called "Edging Into Darkness" from a musical Jim co-wrote in the 70s called "The Confidence Man".
Great job on the video. I'd say I'm more surprised you made no mention of It's All Coming Back to Me Now by Pandora's Box than Celine Dion & finally Meatloaf & Marion Raven. I did discover that Braver Than We Are was a Jim Steinman written album. So thanks for that.
@@madhatterster yeah I had kind of stepped away with keeping up with Meatloaf after the Hang Cool Teddy Bear album, it was okay but once I saw Hell in a Handbasket I wasn't too interested. So didn't even know he did an album afterwards. Same with you Bat Out of Hell Musical album. I still need the Ted Nugent's Free for All, Stoney & Meatloaf and those 2 albums I mentioned above to have all of his work. As for Steinman all I need are the Bonnie Tyler albums, Pandora's Box album (which is hard to find) & I may download the unreleased Batman Musical since it's on TH-cam
@@madhatterster yeah last I saw the recent release was like 20 dollars. I got caught up with getting the Tony Martin era of Black Sabbath now that they released that collection
Thank you for all of your research and for celebrating the genius of Jim Steinman. He must be kept alive in the world's consciousness and introduced to a new generation. It's not totally surprising that a person born 25(?) years after the release of "Bat Out of Hell" would appreciate his music, but it does give me hope for the future. I came here via RxCKSTxR, who sang some of "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" in one of his voiceover videos. I've been a fan since I was a kid in the '80s-Queen and "Bat" were the only things the entire family could agree upon on many a car ride-but hearing that song in an unexpected context made me thirsty for -blood- more knowledge on Jim F**king Steinman.
Thank you for making this... Learning about the DNA of these works is fascinating. I'm currently working on the 'bat' musical, and never realized how deep this rabbit hole went.
Always wanted someone to do this. Just a few extra things. You never mentioned Air Supply's Making Love Out of Nothing At All. There's a demo of that song by Rory Dodd that has an entirely different verse. There's also a rumour that Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love of Nothing at All were written for Meat Loaf, but there was a falling out. Interestingly those 2 songs were Number 1 and Number 2 on Billboard in 1983. Another interesting tidbit about Tanz des Vampires (pronounced Vampeers); its a musical version of the 1960's gothic comedy horror, The Fearless Vampire Killers, directed by Roman Polanski. One last thing; the Taylor Dayne cover of Original Sin was recorded for the OST of the 90s pulp superhero film The Shadow, and includes some rewritten lyrics including The Shadow's famous phrase about the "Evil that lurks in the hearts of men". Thanks for a great video. Pity you couldn't include any sound bites.
There's also a rumour that Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love of Nothing at All were written for Meat Loaf - probably the rumour started by MeatLoaf as he had a habit of claiming every song Steinman wrote was written for him
Another song he doesn't mention that has been covered by multiple artists is Read Em and Weep, probably one of the better songs from Dead Ringer, covered by Manilow and Meat Loaf...the Manilow one is on his greatest hits album
15:44 There are really three as the 1989 Gina Taylor demo is an almost entirely different song to the 1985 Rory Dodd and Everly Brothers' versions. Different melodies, different lyrics all they really share is the chorus The 1989 version is closer to Rebel Without A Clue in terms of musicality So that confuses things even more... You have these two 1985 versions which are exactly the same The 1989 version which is different and heavily changed The 1998 song which is just a completely different song altogether And to top it all off... there's a fourth version From early 1987, there are lyrics for an even different version incorporating parts of For Crying Out Loud... 4 songs, all with the name "A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste"
Thank you for this video - it's really cool to see all these origins compiled! Maybe somebody has said it already, but about the Tanz der Vampire musical: it's based on Roman Polanski's "The Fearless Vampire Killers", just adapted a litte. And the German language version (I'll call it the "original" version although it has been shortened since the very first production) is not in any way the same as the Broadway disaster that absolutely flopped (and rightly so). The bit you quoted was from that US version; the Austrian/German version has actually very different lyrics. I'll try to link a nice bootleg with pretty much accurate English subtitles. Michael Kunze wrote those lyrics, a very prolific and successful (musical) writer / songwriter in the German speaking world - and he captured the Steinman essence really well IMO. I'll stop obsessing over my fav musical now - here's the link: th-cam.com/video/ctlX81z8AXI/w-d-xo.html Oh, and btw: Tanz der Vampire is currently playing in Hamburg, Germany with none other than Rob Fowler as Graf von Krolock (the male lead). He was Falco in the Bat Out Of Hell musical.
You're right. The bit he quoted is what Mandy Gonzalez sang in the Broadway version of "Dance of the Vampires" which is a whole other beast, really. Her character never even sang this song in "Tanz".
Not only is it awesome that Steinman's work can inspire such a young fan, but that this trail of rabbit holes has inspired all these comments and insights by likewise passionate fans.
Great video, thank you for that. I think even with all the comments, this rabbit hole is so deep, that there's still something missing. Two points I wanna add: There's a Meat Loaf version of "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste" on his album "Heaven Can Wait: The best of Meat Loaf" and a medley called "Home by now / no matter what" on his other best of album "The very best of Meat Loaf" (also containing "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste")
I've been trying to find the source for this particular version of Total Eclipse, which i can only find in this demo for what uploader MLBF calls "Bat Out of Hell 2100", a supposed proof of concept demo for a Bat Out of Hell musical film. The song plays at approximately 53:00 in the video. After doing some digging, I found a site hosting the demos, which claim it was dated 1997. and identifies the singers as Laurie Beechman and Marcus Lovett.
@@madhatterster I'm floored to get a response to this 6 months on. I've since stumbled upon Tanz der Vampire myself, but had no idea they had english demos predating the Steve Barton ones. Fascinating stuff! Thank you.
@@GuiltlessGear Unfortunately that's the only Tanz demo I'm aware of floating out there. Kyle Gordon who recorded the vocals on "Seize the Night" mentioned once that he did an English demo of "Eternity" for Tanz. He doesn't have it.
Other interesting notes: Jim Steinman actually hired Desmond Child to write songs for Bonnie Tyler. Steinman later called Child a hack after Bat 3's release! The entire song title "I would do anything for love but I won't do that" is mentioned in Alan Gruner's song for Bonnie Tyler "Getting So Excited" released on the album "Faster Than the Speed of Night" (produced by Steinman). Some of the Batman musical songs were released via Steinman's blog years ago and can still be found on TH-cam. Mostly recycled songs music / lyrics. "(Vespers) The Song Of Gotham City / The Graveyard Shift" is notably brilliant and includes Cry To Heaven & a part of Bad For Good. At the time I commented on the great typical Steinman lyric "Looks like it's a gonna be a dark one tonight". Jim loved that.
Fantastic video on one of the greatest and frankly strangest person in rock history. A deep dive into the history of Jim Steinman would make for a great documentary, because despite being one of the most successful songwriters in history, he seemed to languish for most of his career
Jim once said: "I wrote one song with a hundred different movements". I'm paraphrasing, but I saw him say that when Steve Popovich died, the man who helped bring "Bat out of Hell" to the world. Jim's comment makes a lot of sense to me!
Fire.inc, le chanteur principal sur nowhere fast c'est Rory Dodd avec a la fin de la chanson une performances époustouflantes de son falsetto unique ! La voix de chœur est Holly Sherwood, sur tonight is what means to be young c'est Holly et Rory les chanteurs les chœurs sont un mix de Rory, Holly et Laurie Sargent. Sur l'album bad for good c'est Rory Dodd le chanteur sur rock n roll dreams come through, sur surfs up également ou il livre une performances grandioses et lost boys and golden girls c'est également lui ! Sur les autres pistes c'est jim le chanteur principal mais Rory est le chanteur remplaçant sur certaines parties et également la voix de chœur principal. Sur Bonnie Tyler c'est simple il est la voix duo ou de chœur vedette sur quasiment toute les pistes. Total éclipse of the heart il est la voix duo masculine et la voix féminine qui remplace ou chante plus haut derrière Bonnie. Il est également la voix en vedette sur les refrains de rebel without a clue ainsi que le chant de second plan... beaucoup d'autres chansons ou il figure mais il est pas mentionné ! Bonnie avait un ego qui fait quelle ne voulait pas de lui pour ne pas que ses chansons soient associées à lui bien qu'il contribué grandement à la beauté des chansons ! Sur les albums de Meatloaf il est la voix de chœur sur nombreuses pistes... voilà ! Rory Dodd fait partie intégrante de l'équipe de Steinman mais il n'est pas reconnu à sa juste valeur car il avait un énorme talent et a contribué pour de nombreux chanteurs et chansons ! J'ai pas tout énuméré mais il y'en a beaucoup.
When it comes to rock ballads as an adolescent you could not have been luckier to have been born in the time of Jim's and Meat's heighday. And I was. Unfortunately, those ballads did not get the credit they so richly deserved. One female reactor hit the nail on the head referring to "For crying out loud": "If I wanted my boyfriend to write me a lovesong, it would have to be like this one."
I'd say they haven't done too badly. I think he's sold something like 200 million records in total. It's more of a question of how many people knew he wrote these.
Maaaaan… you really did your homework with this video!!!!! I’ve been trying to do this with steinmans music… and you are trillo right… its a rabbits hole 😂😂😂😂😂
There was a really good demo of A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste by Rory Dodd, with the intro melody of Out of the Frying Pan. Its a whole new song and has no connection to the MeatLoaf version. Shame it was never released...
Thanks for this... I do have a few thoughts and comments. It is true that Steinman reused a lot of stuff, some was a "perfecting the product" some was re-working for different artists sensibilities, but I would argue that a lot of it was due to it always being about (for the most part) One musical, From The Dream Engine through Neverland and onto Bat Out of Hell - The Musical. But this in part goes beyond "just trying to get it right"... the very nature of musicals is that they re--use musical themes within them.... so with Steinman we what is essentially an over 40 year musical with hints and reprieves of numerous songs. Steinman said that Total Eclipse of the Heart was a vampire love story, it's original title was "Vampires in Love" - So it's inclusion in the musical kind of made sense. I would also suggest that Dance of the Vampires is in itself just another version of Neverland, as vampires like Peter Pan's "The Lost Boys" never grow up. (You may recall that there was actually a vampire film called "The Lost Boys" Manchester is not London (or remotely close, you might upset people there)... Bat Out of Hell the Musical Premiered 17 Feb 2017 at Manchester Opera House Manchester, and opened on 6 June 2017 in London. As for the whole nudity thing, this wasn't that uncommon with counter-culture musicals of the time. Meat Loaf was in Hair (noted for its nudity) before meeting Steinman.
I love Jim Steinman Records especially his Bad for Good. I'm big fan of Meatloaf and Jim Steinman band the Neverlandexpress band. I will miss them both. ❤💙😢
Braver than we are/Going all the way is my 2nd favorite song. I love the version from Tansder Vampire as well as Meatloaf's. I loved it that Ellen Foley and Karla DeVito joined him on it .
Just stumbled on this by accident, and holy shit, you did a fantastic job. I've been a Steinman fan since I was a teen in the 90s. I have to say, it never actually seemed all the weird to me how he recycled and adapted his material throughout his career. I think part of that is my big love even as a young teen was both rock/pop songwriters/producers (Burt Bacharach, the Brill Building 1960s rock writers Steinman loved who worked with Shangri-Las, etc) and also musical theatre composers. In fact I tracked down pop albums more often because of who produced them (I have a big Giorgio Moroder collection lol) or wrote them, more than who the performer was, and of course with musical theatre that naturally was how I sought them out too. So you see a lot more recycling and re-purposing of ideas when you follow careers that way anyway. Of course my all time musical theatre obsession, Stephen Sondheim, frowned on re-using and adapting material for different projects (even cut songs would, with only a couple exceptions, never pop up elsewhere as he said that each project should have a unique sound.) But for most musical songwriters it's pretty common (and of course Steinman friend Andrew Lloyd Webber is epically famous for it--indeed the melody of Tire Tracks and Broken Hearts in Whistle Down the Wind, although I honestly might have guessed that Steinman helped with the music for it and not just the lyrics as it sounds so like his style, actually originates from the song "Capped Teeth and Caesar Salad" written for Song and Dance. And If Only from Whistle originated as the original bridge for "Chanson d'Enfance" from Aspects of Love.) Nearly every major Andrew Lloyd Webber song, and many lesser ones, had its melodic origins in an earlier song. But you're right, Steinman REALLY made a career out of doing this. Anyway, I think you chart such a complicated subject clearly and well (and the google doc is something I am sure I'll return to.)
Music from "Tire Tracks" was "English Girls" from the Broadway Song & Dance. From memory, the Washington "Tire Tracks" sounds even more like that version than it did later. They added a whole new section to it for London: "Those good girls never know what they're missing..." That wasn't there in Washington. It's a dance, with music from "Safe Haven" showing up in it. I think "If Only" and "Chanson" all came from a toy theatre suite Andrew composed when he was, I think, nine???
@@madhatterster Good catch, I never noticed that before. I guess it was first used in the Bonnie Tyler version from the album released a year before the London version th-cam.com/video/chIEdgUtTTk/w-d-xo.html
Excellent review. I have become obsessed with steinman including listening to dance of the vampire in german on repeat just for.kicks. you are right everything he did was to create bat out of hell the musical he just didnt know the big picture just one piece at a time
Thoroughly enjoyed that rabbit hole. In 1983 Bonnie Tyler covered a Lee Kosmin song "Getting So Exciting" (changed to "Getting So Excited") which Jim produced for her Faster Than The Speed of Night album. 1:31 of Bonnie's version you hear spoken for the first time "I'd do anything for love, but I won't do that". I've heard Bonnie thought the lyric was ridiculous so she refused to sing it, Jim recorded it himself to add in afterwards. Jim has no writing credits for the song, he only contributed the spoken line, the song was written by Alan Gruner.
No prolemwith jokes, jokes are good. :) Thanks for the vid, I was a bit clueless too. Loved them both. Meat Loaf was - is, my no.1 fav artist. Ever sicne Bat Out of Hell II, one of the first CDs I ever bought. Also bought the Rock And Roll Dreams Come Through single..
Great job! Thank you very much! Over the years i have listened to quite a few of Rorys songs and found him to be ok, just a guy, nothing special, but not bad. Curious as to which of his songs you thought could rival Meat, because i never saw that, but admit i may not have listened to the right one? I don't think anyone could ever sing like Meat. He was a one an only. That is what made him great. So far, to me Rory was just a singer.
It all comes down to contrasts, for me. Meat is very theatrical and intense. Rory is more calm and tranquil. Meat wouldn't have sounded the same singing "Turn around bright eyes" just as Rory wouldn't have sounded the same singing "Bat".
1:33 "I Wanna Eat Your Pancreas" could totally be a Jim Steinman song - Lol. In college he had a band with a weird (and raunchy) name that performed songs of the same nature. You'll probably mention it in this video, but I had to stop right there before I go any further.
If I said the name of the band here, my comment would probably be removed. But I know he was in a band called Things That Go Bump in the Night. Actually, I'm not even sure that other band even existed, it's one of his stories. You'd have to ask Barry. Look for Spacepunk2001 in the comments.
I hope one day "The Graduated" demos will surface. There is a lot of connections in there. Some says he was used to recycling his music. They don't understand that the work of Steinman was a gigantic rock opera. Nobody in the world ever dare to compose music like him. I miss him so much...
There's also the lost Steinman songs. He wrote an album for Def Lepard in the early 80s but they didn't like them and destroyed the tapes. I've never seen anything resembling a track listing. Couple of other musicals he wrote which haven't survived in any form. He also worked on Phantom of the Opera for a couple of weeks and I swear I can hear his influence, at least, in parts of it. Couple of weeks might not sound like a long time though the two tracks for Streets of Fire ( was meant to be Springstein's Streets of Fire as the curtain closer though he refused permission to use it) were written in a couple of days. Which is remarkable as TIWIMTBY is the most definitively sounding Steinman to me. There was also a track for Air Supply, though oddly it doesn't sound all that Steinmanish to mine ears. I also recall a charity single in the UK titled 'When Children rule the World'. If you haven't yet heard the finale from Tanz der Vampire, it's a treat. Two weird and wonderful things about Jim's music are it's longevity or timelessness and the almost complete lack of anyone who has copied rather than covered his style. The only track I can think of which reminds me a lot of Jim is Nightwish's Storytime - which makes me fantasize about what Jim could have done with a talent like Floor Jansen. I'd be very interested to hear of any other tracks that people think were influenced by Jim.
I think he only just produced the Def Leppard album, no songs, but I do remember that he mentioned a title he had for it, something like "Use It Or Lose It". I love the story about "Streets of Fire".
When Children Rule the World is on the Whistle Down The Wind albums. One version is with the original London Cast and a 2nd was on a 2nd album from 1998 of "Songs From" Whistle Down the Wind. That version was sung by Donny Osmond.
Hi Bryer Himself. I was wondering if you know what his songs Modern Girl ang Midnight at the Lost and Found mean? Modern Girl is REEEEEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLYYYYY bothering me and Midnight at the Lost and Found I'm just starting to want to know. I know Meat wants us to create our own stories but I can't do that because I don't know what these songs mean. Can you help me please if you can?
Great video, Steinman is a legend. On the Bat Out Of Hell musical, What Part of My Body Hurts The Most is a reworking as well, not an original piece. Also in the link is a song called We’re Still the Children which was part of his Batman musical that he was working on that later turned into his Vampire musical th-cam.com/video/7FjYzywLK5Q/w-d-xo.html
"What Part of my Body Hurts the Most?" was still a new song when the Bat show happened, because the song had never been officially released. It had been performed live a bunch of times, but no official recording or release. Besides that, it uses a bit of the music from "Safe Sex", but I don't hear anything else.
I must say you did a great job here but I also had to say that you've got one thing wrong and that is that Jim's album "Bad for Good" was almost completely written for the Peter Pan musical "Neverland" including the album title. The music for "The Dream Engine" got lost because someone accidently recorded over the tape and the music for "Neverland" was stolen. So Jim rewrite the songs and recorded them with Meat Loaf. The plan was to rerecord all the lost music with Meat Loaf but because of his voice (like you mentioned) Meat wasn't able to record at that time and that's the reason for Jim's album "Bad for Good" and the beginning of older music newly recorded by other artists. But was in the first place ment for Meat Loaf. So Meat himself had something like 'I want to record those song too" And that's why the songs are all covered or partly used in other new songs. U see , there is a logic in it.
This is a good story but not true. The only song on Bad For Good written for Neverland was Dance In My Pants. The 1969 The Dream Engine tape was never recorded over--the complete live Mt. Holyoke performance is on the internet. Neverland tape was lost for years but turned up on mysteriously on the internet. Jim recorded it himself during a performance at the Kennedy Center but forgot to turn on the record button for the first half of Act Two--so that was lost to history forever. The Bat Out of Hell album was completed before Neverland was performed--but it took over a year to find a company that would release it--in the mean time we created Neverland at the Kennedy Center featuring a large portion of the Bat album songs. Meat Loaf was not cast because he didn't look right for an eighteen year old blond blue eyed cult leader. He could have been brilliant as Hook but didn't feel like being there while somebody else sang all his Bat Out Of Hell material. (Barry Keating)
you need to go back to the dream engine and listen and read it all Everything that Jim is famous for starts there, It's like his Genesis/Template and their is still more their that he may well have gone back to if he hadn't fallen victim to illness Like he couldn't talk or play the piano. Anyhow everything is within that first dream engine play
Jim did not ghostwrite songs for Meat. All of Meat Loaf's famous songs are written by and credited to Jim and Jim alone. Meat was an incomparable singer/actor but he never wrote a note or lyric of those songs. He only wrote the music to Holding Out For A Hero and he only wrote the lyrics to No Matter What. -- BK
Steinman only did the lyrics for Whistle Down the Wind. Andrew Lloyd Webber did the music and screenplay if I remember right. There wasn’t anything to talk about from it that related to the topic of the video so I left it out. There is a bunch of other Steinman plays and various project I didn’t touch up on because there was so little info on them/couldn’t relate them to the topic.
@@BryerHimself He did reuse some stuff for it though. "Tire tracks and broken hearts that's all we're leaving behind" comes from "Peel Out". "And we'll never be as young as we are right now" is from "Lost Boys and Golden Girls". Even the line "A dream is being born" goes back to "Song of the Dream Engine" in 1969. There are some lines from "The future ain't what it used to be" in songs like "Whistle down the Wind" and "Unsettled Scores".
Steinman wrote at least one song, music and lyrics, that Andrew Lloyd Weber and him essentially turned into a different song. Steinman's credits get confusing. He remains awesome.
Jim Steinman and Meat were pure magic together. I can't imagine one without the other. I'm not sure Meat ever could either. He sure didn't stick around long after Jim left us.
I'm always glad to see people celebrating and supporting Steinmsan's immense legacy. He's still so poorly known among the general public, so godspeed! You're doing important work.
A youngster, no less! There is hope for the future...
I totally agree
I don't see why people won't be able to hear this music in future generations. His music is everywhere. You can't really escape from it. The question is whether people will come to realize it's all composed by the same person. To me, he's like a classical composer, like Beethoven, Puccini. I hope as a writer he will be acknowledged on that kind of level. Just listening to something like "It's All Coming Back to Me Now", I can see why he would be.
Well done.....!
Enjoyed this immensely.
Have also wondered about the connections between Steinman's early work and
later projects. You really fill in the gaps. Many thanks for putting this together.
I love Jim Steinman, he's just everywhere you look once you start looking, or listening. This was a good video and I subscribed.
Fellow massive Steinman fan, and on the younger side of the fandom too (33). I've done the same rabbit hole digging myself but never made a video on it. Thanks for the great vid!
So wonderful to find another person who know and love Jim Steinman and Meat!!! I,too, was incredibly sad to discover that Jim had passed. He was at the top of my “People I Want to Meet” list for decades! Thanks for this great video on the background of his songs. 💕
Thoroughly enjoyed this. Your hard work was definitely worth it.
An excellent offering. Thank you very much for putting this together.
I think the only thing I would add is that, I think in 1980, Jim wrote the score to the movie A Small Circle of Friends, a very forgettable movie that romanticizes Vietnam-era college life, but when you listen to the overture, you very distinctly hear the melody that would become Making Love Out of Nothing At All.
Oh, and by the way, Two Out of Three Ain't Bad is the most honest love song ever written. Been saying that for thirty years.
Love this! Thanks for doing the legwork here. FYI, there’s a 3rd version of “A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste” that is covered by Meat Loaf. It appears on the “Whistle Down The Wind” album (different than the cast recording) and is also on “The Essential Meat Loaf” compilation. 16:04
There's yet another version of "A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste" based on the first version recorded by the Everly Brothers, recorded by Gina Taylor, probably for the Pandora's Box album. You can find that version on TH-cam.
Out of the tracks that you mentioned in this video there is one that I noticed that was not mentioned and that's Making Love Out Of Nothing At All that did indeed make it into the Bat Out Of Hell musical which was first released on Air Supply's Greatest Hits album and would later be done by Bonnie Tyler. I don't know where many of the origins from that song came from, but it's also a major important piece of Jim Steinman's work as well. Other than that your video was pretty informative to say the least.
16:41 Some of the Bonnie Tyler riffs first appeared in Small Circle of Friends, and many of the riffs can be heard in the Dream Engine's Entr'acte
Damn wow
Really informative and fascinating. Thanks, this is renewing my decades-old love of the amazing Steinman and Meatloaf 😀
Great work on this video! Jim Steinman was a genius and deserves much more recognition than he gets.
OMG i've always wanted someone to do this. I am so glad that meat and jim meant so much to you. I love that you include streets of fire and pandoras box
Thanks for helping to keep Jim Steinman's memory alive! Fantastic job in documenting so many little known facts!!
Great video! Appreciate all the time spent on this. Jim and Meat are legends!
Great job. To a Steinman/Meatloaf fan (hard to believe anyone isn’t) it’s heaven on earth.
Though I like Steinmans work I am getting fed up with the shoutiness of it all so its nice to hear original versions where the songs are more restrained and often have a country vibe
Steinman actually produced two more songs on Sisters previous album Floodland, but More is the only song he wrote
Think he also produced, but didn't write, this corrosion?
@@mikechaffin8100 correct and Dominion/Mother Russia
@@themadmattster9647 My lass wasn't keen on my taste in music though turns out Steinman worked on all her absolute favourite SOM tracks. Which was sweet. :)
Thank you for this video. Jim and Meatloaf were underated geniuses. Those of you who don't know them, you've missed out. I've been privileged to spend my teen years listening to Jim's productions
Extreme, sardonic, operatic, enigmatic Jim Steinman.
❤❤
Haha, for me it was actually weird to hear the songs in English after hearing them in Tanz der Vampire (my first introduction to Steinman). xD But that musical is what made me fall in love with Steinman's music. And Steinman will stay special for me, so thanks for taking your time to make this!
Jim brought me to "Tanz der Vampire". "Tanz" brought you to Jim. I love the contrast!
@@madhatterster I love that too! Awesome how music can bring new things both ways around!
We have press night tonight in London … (yes I’m original cast Sloane) thank you for keeping the flame burning bright for Jim & Meat 🦇
Thank you for the history Lesson. I started as a Meatloaf fan as a child of the late 70's and 80's with siblings who were teens in the late 60's, 70's, and 80's. So I always aspired to their musical tastes. I remember halloween 1994, getting Meat's Bat out of Hell II Tape, back in the cassette days. I was addicted to it, and it started me down the path to devouring everything he put out, to learning about the man who actually wrote the music. I never knew about the Dream Engine until this video, and hearing "Turn around bright eyes" in The Formation of the tribe was a 'Mind Blown' moment for me. To hear the origin of that Iconic line from Bonnie Tyler's song, sung by Rory Dodd in the original, to hear it in a new light, was a spiritual moment. I lamented Jim's Passing in april 2021, and then Meat under a year later in 2022... Two integral facets of my youth that I shall forever carry close to my heart. :) Thanks BryerHimself for this video.
I just want to thank you for all of your hard work ! They are both missed !
This video and it's attempts at origins is absolutely fabulous. Thanks so much. I'll now go down my rabbit hole to add things learned here to my Steinman collection.
I really appreciate you for this. Just found out about this guy a few weeks back.
I love your enthusiasm for the great Jim Steinman
Hey there Bryer, just found this awesome job of yours. I made a spreadsheet out of it for cross listening (for the fun of it). Still, apart from Nick's 'Dream engine' remark below there's one chronological puzzle left that I couldn't find in your chronological Candy Land: you mention some 'Bat out of Hell' tracks as originating from 'Neverland', but I have never found the answer to how exactly that worked: 'Bat' was supposedly recorded over 1976 (I'm told) and 'Neverland' produced in April 1977... I understood things went from one to the other, but I never found a conclusive chronological answer to this puzzle. All I know is that both finally came together in the 2017 musical, just as you pointed out. Thanks for this!
amazing video, thank you for making it!
Well done.
I've noticed many of Steinman's songs share many similarities with his other works.
My older brother gave me a Bat out of Hell tape back in the 80's and I was hooked.
It wasn't until the internet age that I put Steinman's non Meatloaf song like Total Eclipse and Making Love out of Nothing at all. Then one day I watched Streets of Fire and those two songs struck a chord and I saw Steinman in the movie credits.
Steinman & Meatloaf - their music was my youth.
RIP guys
You can recognize a Jim Steinman song within the first three notes. His theatrical, Phil Spector wall of sound writing is unmistakable. Plus, almost every song he wrote is a retread from Neverland his dream musical that he never wrote and I really wish we could see.
I was 16 when I realised I wasn't in love in Meatloaf, I was in love with Jim Steinman. I found the score for 'Bat out of Hell' in my local library (that's what we did before the internet - looked it up in books), and I thought 'Words and music by Jim Steinman? Who the hell's Jim Steinman?'. And now, we have all this this. Thanks for putting it together.
The Whistle Down the Wind soundtrack has tons of re-uses including "Tire Tracks and Broken Hearts" and several of the songs are later repurposed on the Dance Of the Vampire works. And besides the London Cast 2-CD recording of Whistle Down the Wind, there was another "Songs From" sung by various artists include Tina Arena, Boyzone, Elaine Paige (her version of If Only is wonderful), Donny Osmond, The Everly Brothers, Boy George, Bonnie Tyler, Michael Ball, and Meat Loaf.
Great video - deserves far more views
I think Steinman is officially creditted as co-writer of More ...wikipedeia says "The song was co-written and co-produced by Andrew Eldritch and Jim Steinman. " IIRC correctly on the Top Of The Pops peeformance here in the UK the backing singers included a few women that also appeared in Pandoras Box
Another little song missed was Bonnie Tylers Ravishing which I believe was also used instrumentally as some Hulk Hogan theme song
Requiem Metal from Original Sin was also used in a car advert - Ford IIRC
Specifically, Jim contributed the chorus: "And I need all the love I can get/And I need all the love that I can't get too/to..." That's the only bit he reused in "Batman".
Parts of nocturnal pleasure was used for "ive been dreaming up a storm lately" on original sin
Very comprehensive, I take my hat off to you. The only thing I saw that wasn't mentioned is very minor. Meat Loaf's cover of "Nowhere Fast" actually has completely different lyrics (save the chorus) than the version in Streets of Fire. Other than that you seem to have covered all the bases. Well done.
Thank you! I’m kicking myself for not noticing the different “Nowhere Fast” versions. It shows that the rabbit hole is truly never ending…
@@BryerHimself It is because "Nowhere Fast" also becomes the music for "Everything Louder Than Everything Else" from Bat 2. Listen to the riffs.
You never mentioned Bad for Good at the beginning, sadly Bad For Good was never recognised as much as it should of been. But I have to say that Bad For Good was my favourite album.
bad for good is my favorite Steinman project for sure! it definitely needs more love for sure
Thanks for the laughs! He wrote a song for Barry Mannilow: “Read Em and Weep” and one for Air Supply: “Making Love Out of Nothing at All.” The latter sounds like a vampire inspired song and has a bit of Jim's signature theatricality. I would say he probably repurposed both songs.
"Read 'Em And Weep" was recorded first by Meat Loaf on "Dead Ringer", and then Jim reused it for Barry. The music for "Making Love..." had been around for a while. You can hear parts of it in his movie score for "A Small Circle of Friends". It also shows up in a song called "Edging Into Darkness" from a musical Jim co-wrote in the 70s called "The Confidence Man".
@@madhatterster thank you. I haven't heard some of those details before. I learned after I made this comment that it was on the Dead Ringer album.
Great job on the video. I'd say I'm more surprised you made no mention of It's All Coming Back to Me Now by Pandora's Box than Celine Dion & finally Meatloaf & Marion Raven. I did discover that Braver Than We Are was a Jim Steinman written album. So thanks for that.
I thought everyone knew that was their last collaboration. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why it wasn't as big as Bat 2 then.
@@madhatterster yeah I had kind of stepped away with keeping up with Meatloaf after the Hang Cool Teddy Bear album, it was okay but once I saw Hell in a Handbasket I wasn't too interested. So didn't even know he did an album afterwards. Same with you Bat Out of Hell Musical album. I still need the Ted Nugent's Free for All, Stoney & Meatloaf and those 2 albums I mentioned above to have all of his work.
As for Steinman all I need are the Bonnie Tyler albums, Pandora's Box album (which is hard to find) & I may download the unreleased Batman Musical since it's on TH-cam
@@moviereviews4life I still need the Stoney and Meatloaf CD version. They did an awesome release of that.
@@madhatterster yeah last I saw the recent release was like 20 dollars. I got caught up with getting the Tony Martin era of Black Sabbath now that they released that collection
Thank you for all of your research and for celebrating the genius of Jim Steinman. He must be kept alive in the world's consciousness and introduced to a new generation. It's not totally surprising that a person born 25(?) years after the release of "Bat Out of Hell" would appreciate his music, but it does give me hope for the future. I came here via RxCKSTxR, who sang some of "It's All Coming Back to Me Now" in one of his voiceover videos. I've been a fan since I was a kid in the '80s-Queen and "Bat" were the only things the entire family could agree upon on many a car ride-but hearing that song in an unexpected context made me thirsty for -blood- more knowledge on Jim F**king Steinman.
Thank you for making this... Learning about the DNA of these works is fascinating. I'm currently working on the 'bat' musical, and never realized how deep this rabbit hole went.
16:21 Steinman would've been perfect to write music for the Joel Schumacher Batman films.
Just saw the Sydney, Australia, musical and was telling some friends beforehand that this is probably the way the songs are best heard :)
Always wanted someone to do this. Just a few extra things. You never mentioned Air Supply's Making Love Out of Nothing At All. There's a demo of that song by Rory Dodd that has an entirely different verse. There's also a rumour that Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love of Nothing at All were written for Meat Loaf, but there was a falling out. Interestingly those 2 songs were Number 1 and Number 2 on Billboard in 1983. Another interesting tidbit about Tanz des Vampires (pronounced Vampeers); its a musical version of the 1960's gothic comedy horror, The Fearless Vampire Killers, directed by Roman Polanski. One last thing; the Taylor Dayne cover of Original Sin was recorded for the OST of the 90s pulp superhero film The Shadow, and includes some rewritten lyrics including The Shadow's famous phrase about the "Evil that lurks in the hearts of men". Thanks for a great video. Pity you couldn't include any sound bites.
There's also a rumour that Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love of Nothing at All were written for Meat Loaf - probably the rumour started by MeatLoaf as he had a habit of claiming every song Steinman wrote was written for him
@@atomiccritter6492 True. Ha ha.
Another song he doesn't mention that has been covered by multiple artists is Read Em and Weep, probably one of the better songs from Dead Ringer, covered by Manilow and Meat Loaf...the Manilow one is on his greatest hits album
Yeah he already said he was probably going to miss a few things. Get over it, he covered most of the notable stuff.
Meat might have genuinely thought those songs were meant for him. I feel like it was a misunderstanding.
15:44 There are really three as the 1989 Gina Taylor demo is an almost entirely different song to the 1985 Rory Dodd and Everly Brothers' versions. Different melodies, different lyrics all they really share is the chorus
The 1989 version is closer to Rebel Without A Clue in terms of musicality
So that confuses things even more...
You have these two 1985 versions which are exactly the same
The 1989 version which is different and heavily changed
The 1998 song which is just a completely different song altogether
And to top it all off... there's a fourth version
From early 1987, there are lyrics for an even different version incorporating parts of For Crying Out Loud...
4 songs, all with the name "A Kiss Is A Terrible Thing To Waste"
I believe the Everly Brothers version was recorded 1987, just not released until 2005.
Jim was my icon in the 80's
One of my dreams was to meet Jimmy and tell him how important his music was to me. I'm glad there are others that appreciate him as much as I do.
I'd like to believe Jim would have told you what he said to me: "No. Thank YOU."
Thank you for this video - it's really cool to see all these origins compiled! Maybe somebody has said it already, but about the Tanz der Vampire musical: it's based on Roman Polanski's "The Fearless Vampire Killers", just adapted a litte. And the German language version (I'll call it the "original" version although it has been shortened since the very first production) is not in any way the same as the Broadway disaster that absolutely flopped (and rightly so). The bit you quoted was from that US version; the Austrian/German version has actually very different lyrics. I'll try to link a nice bootleg with pretty much accurate English subtitles. Michael Kunze wrote those lyrics, a very prolific and successful (musical) writer / songwriter in the German speaking world - and he captured the Steinman essence really well IMO. I'll stop obsessing over my fav musical now - here's the link: th-cam.com/video/ctlX81z8AXI/w-d-xo.html Oh, and btw: Tanz der Vampire is currently playing in Hamburg, Germany with none other than Rob Fowler as Graf von Krolock (the male lead). He was Falco in the Bat Out Of Hell musical.
You're right. The bit he quoted is what Mandy Gonzalez sang in the Broadway version of "Dance of the Vampires" which is a whole other beast, really. Her character never even sang this song in "Tanz".
Very informative video. Thanks for making it. I luv Steinman and Meat Loaf.
Great stuff thanks for all the info
Not only is it awesome that Steinman's work can inspire such a young fan, but that this trail of rabbit holes has inspired all these comments and insights by likewise passionate fans.
I hope I don't appear too passionate. I know way too much about this topic lol
Great video, thank you for that. I think even with all the comments, this rabbit hole is so deep, that there's still something missing. Two points I wanna add:
There's a Meat Loaf version of "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste" on his album "Heaven Can Wait: The best of Meat Loaf" and a medley called "Home by now / no matter what" on his other best of album "The very best of Meat Loaf" (also containing "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste")
There's plenty missing, but he would have had to a six part video.
I've been trying to find the source for this particular version of Total Eclipse, which i can only find in this demo for what uploader MLBF calls "Bat Out of Hell 2100", a supposed proof of concept demo for a Bat Out of Hell musical film.
The song plays at approximately 53:00 in the video. After doing some digging, I found a site hosting the demos, which claim it was dated 1997. and identifies the singers as Laurie Beechman and Marcus Lovett.
It is a demo recorded for the "Tanz der Vampire" musical, but used on the "Bat out of Hell 2100" demos.
@@madhatterster I'm floored to get a response to this 6 months on. I've since stumbled upon Tanz der Vampire myself, but had no idea they had english demos predating the Steve Barton ones. Fascinating stuff! Thank you.
@@GuiltlessGear Unfortunately that's the only Tanz demo I'm aware of floating out there. Kyle Gordon who recorded the vocals on "Seize the Night" mentioned once that he did an English demo of "Eternity" for Tanz. He doesn't have it.
Other interesting notes: Jim Steinman actually hired Desmond Child to write songs for Bonnie Tyler. Steinman later called Child a hack after Bat 3's release! The entire song title "I would do anything for love but I won't do that" is mentioned in Alan Gruner's song for Bonnie Tyler "Getting So Excited" released on the album "Faster Than the Speed of Night" (produced by Steinman). Some of the Batman musical songs were released via Steinman's blog years ago and can still be found on TH-cam. Mostly recycled songs music / lyrics. "(Vespers) The Song Of Gotham City / The Graveyard Shift" is notably brilliant and includes Cry To Heaven & a part of Bad For Good. At the time I commented on the great typical Steinman lyric "Looks like it's a gonna be a dark one tonight". Jim loved that.
Fantastic video on one of the greatest and frankly strangest person in rock history. A deep dive into the history of Jim Steinman would make for a great documentary, because despite being one of the most successful songwriters in history, he seemed to languish for most of his career
It's nice to see someone as young as myself, who both loves Steinman and video games, lol. I salute you!
“Old people music Aficionado” 😂 I love it!
❤️❤️✌️
You're welcome :)
I'll have to watch all of this later it's great so far
Jim once said: "I wrote one song with a hundred different movements". I'm paraphrasing, but I saw him say that when Steve Popovich died, the man who helped bring "Bat out of Hell" to the world. Jim's comment makes a lot of sense to me!
Fire.inc, le chanteur principal sur nowhere fast c'est Rory Dodd avec a la fin de la chanson une performances époustouflantes de son falsetto unique ! La voix de chœur est Holly Sherwood, sur tonight is what means to be young c'est Holly et Rory les chanteurs les chœurs sont un mix de Rory, Holly et Laurie Sargent. Sur l'album bad for good c'est Rory Dodd le chanteur sur rock n roll dreams come through, sur surfs up également ou il livre une performances grandioses et lost boys and golden girls c'est également lui ! Sur les autres pistes c'est jim le chanteur principal mais Rory est le chanteur remplaçant sur certaines parties et également la voix de chœur principal. Sur Bonnie Tyler c'est simple il est la voix duo ou de chœur vedette sur quasiment toute les pistes. Total éclipse of the heart il est la voix duo masculine et la voix féminine qui remplace ou chante plus haut derrière Bonnie. Il est également la voix en vedette sur les refrains de rebel without a clue ainsi que le chant de second plan... beaucoup d'autres chansons ou il figure mais il est pas mentionné ! Bonnie avait un ego qui fait quelle ne voulait pas de lui pour ne pas que ses chansons soient associées à lui bien qu'il contribué grandement à la beauté des chansons ! Sur les albums de Meatloaf il est la voix de chœur sur nombreuses pistes... voilà ! Rory Dodd fait partie intégrante de l'équipe de Steinman mais il n'est pas reconnu à sa juste valeur car il avait un énorme talent et a contribué pour de nombreux chanteurs et chansons ! J'ai pas tout énuméré mais il y'en a beaucoup.
Great video! Going through a Steinman phase right now
When it comes to rock ballads as an adolescent you could not have been luckier to have been born in the time of Jim's and Meat's heighday. And I was. Unfortunately, those ballads did not get the credit they so richly deserved. One female reactor hit the nail on the head referring to "For crying out loud": "If I wanted my boyfriend to write me a lovesong, it would have to be like this one."
I'd say they haven't done too badly. I think he's sold something like 200 million records in total. It's more of a question of how many people knew he wrote these.
Maaaaan… you really did your homework with this video!!!!!
I’ve been trying to do this with steinmans music… and you are trillo right… its a rabbits hole
😂😂😂😂😂
There was a really good demo of A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste by Rory Dodd, with the intro melody of Out of the Frying Pan. Its a whole new song and has no connection to the MeatLoaf version. Shame it was never released...
Like "Holding out for a Hero" with the riff for "Stark Raving Love", he only really reused the riff from it. But perhaps I've missed something.
Thanks for this... I do have a few thoughts and comments.
It is true that Steinman reused a lot of stuff, some was a "perfecting the product" some was re-working for different artists sensibilities, but I would argue that a lot of it was due to it always being about (for the most part) One musical, From The Dream Engine through Neverland and onto Bat Out of Hell - The Musical. But this in part goes beyond "just trying to get it right"... the very nature of musicals is that they re--use musical themes within them.... so with Steinman we what is essentially an over 40 year musical with hints and reprieves of numerous songs.
Steinman said that Total Eclipse of the Heart was a vampire love story, it's original title was "Vampires in Love" - So it's inclusion in the musical kind of made sense. I would also suggest that Dance of the Vampires is in itself just another version of Neverland, as vampires like Peter Pan's "The Lost Boys" never grow up. (You may recall that there was actually a vampire film called "The Lost Boys"
Manchester is not London (or remotely close, you might upset people there)... Bat Out of Hell the Musical Premiered 17 Feb 2017 at Manchester Opera House Manchester, and opened on 6 June 2017 in London.
As for the whole nudity thing, this wasn't that uncommon with counter-culture musicals of the time. Meat Loaf was in Hair (noted for its nudity) before meeting Steinman.
I love Jim Steinman Records especially his Bad for Good. I'm big fan of Meatloaf and Jim Steinman band the Neverlandexpress band. I will miss them both. ❤💙😢
Braver than we are/Going all the way is my 2nd favorite song. I love the version from Tansder Vampire as well as Meatloaf's. I loved it that Ellen Foley and Karla DeVito joined him on it .
And I love Jim's Demos lead vocals are very good and awesome. 💙❤❤
Just stumbled on this by accident, and holy shit, you did a fantastic job. I've been a Steinman fan since I was a teen in the 90s.
I have to say, it never actually seemed all the weird to me how he recycled and adapted his material throughout his career. I think part of that is my big love even as a young teen was both rock/pop songwriters/producers (Burt Bacharach, the Brill Building 1960s rock writers Steinman loved who worked with Shangri-Las, etc) and also musical theatre composers. In fact I tracked down pop albums more often because of who produced them (I have a big Giorgio Moroder collection lol) or wrote them, more than who the performer was, and of course with musical theatre that naturally was how I sought them out too. So you see a lot more recycling and re-purposing of ideas when you follow careers that way anyway.
Of course my all time musical theatre obsession, Stephen Sondheim, frowned on re-using and adapting material for different projects (even cut songs would, with only a couple exceptions, never pop up elsewhere as he said that each project should have a unique sound.) But for most musical songwriters it's pretty common (and of course Steinman friend Andrew Lloyd Webber is epically famous for it--indeed the melody of Tire Tracks and Broken Hearts in Whistle Down the Wind, although I honestly might have guessed that Steinman helped with the music for it and not just the lyrics as it sounds so like his style, actually originates from the song "Capped Teeth and Caesar Salad" written for Song and Dance. And If Only from Whistle originated as the original bridge for "Chanson d'Enfance" from Aspects of Love.) Nearly every major Andrew Lloyd Webber song, and many lesser ones, had its melodic origins in an earlier song.
But you're right, Steinman REALLY made a career out of doing this. Anyway, I think you chart such a complicated subject clearly and well (and the google doc is something I am sure I'll return to.)
Music from "Tire Tracks" was "English Girls" from the Broadway Song & Dance. From memory, the Washington "Tire Tracks" sounds even more like that version than it did later. They added a whole new section to it for London: "Those good girls never know what they're missing..." That wasn't there in Washington. It's a dance, with music from "Safe Haven" showing up in it. I think "If Only" and "Chanson" all came from a toy theatre suite Andrew composed when he was, I think, nine???
@@madhatterster Good catch, I never noticed that before. I guess it was first used in the Bonnie Tyler version from the album released a year before the London version th-cam.com/video/chIEdgUtTTk/w-d-xo.html
Meatloaf the musical did have a six week run in Manhattan September of 2017 i saw it there was awesome
Remember these were the days of "Hair"...context . Steinman , like all of us, was influenced by what was happening musically and theatrically.
Excellent review. I have become obsessed with steinman including listening to dance of the vampire in german on repeat just for.kicks. you are right everything he did was to create bat out of hell the musical he just didnt know the big picture just one piece at a time
Love this video!
Thoroughly enjoyed that rabbit hole. In 1983 Bonnie Tyler covered a Lee Kosmin song "Getting So Exciting" (changed to "Getting So Excited") which Jim produced for her Faster Than The Speed of Night album. 1:31 of Bonnie's version you hear spoken for the first time "I'd do anything for love, but I won't do that". I've heard Bonnie thought the lyric was ridiculous so she refused to sing it, Jim recorded it himself to add in afterwards. Jim has no writing credits for the song, he only contributed the spoken line, the song was written by Alan Gruner.
That’s really interesting, I had no idea. Thank you for sharing!
just reading the spreadsheet. Steinman was infamous for recycling, but there are a fair few i never knew about!
Hulk Hogans Theme is an instrumental version of "Ravishing" by Bonnie Tyler.
Great job 👍
I loved Bad for Good, a very underrated piece of work. And don't get me started on "Streets of Fire". I was madly in love with Diane Lane.
No prolemwith jokes, jokes are good. :)
Thanks for the vid, I was a bit clueless too. Loved them both. Meat Loaf was - is, my no.1 fav artist. Ever sicne Bat Out of Hell II, one of the first CDs I ever bought. Also bought the Rock And Roll Dreams Come Through single..
Great job! Thank you very much! Over the years i have listened to quite a few of Rorys songs and found him to be ok, just a guy, nothing special, but not bad. Curious as to which of his songs you thought could rival Meat, because i never saw that, but admit i may not have listened to the right one? I don't think anyone could ever sing like Meat. He was a one an only. That is what made him great. So far, to me Rory was just a singer.
It all comes down to contrasts, for me. Meat is very theatrical and intense. Rory is more calm and tranquil. Meat wouldn't have sounded the same singing "Turn around bright eyes" just as Rory wouldn't have sounded the same singing "Bat".
Link for BOOHTM you referenced at 20:25?
1:33 "I Wanna Eat Your Pancreas" could totally be a Jim Steinman song - Lol. In college he had a band with a weird (and raunchy) name that performed songs of the same nature. You'll probably mention it in this video, but I had to stop right there before I go any further.
If I said the name of the band here, my comment would probably be removed. But I know he was in a band called Things That Go Bump in the Night. Actually, I'm not even sure that other band even existed, it's one of his stories. You'd have to ask Barry. Look for Spacepunk2001 in the comments.
Awesome! Can you send a link to the footage of the musical you watched?
I hope one day "The Graduated" demos will surface. There is a lot of connections in there. Some says he was used to recycling his music. They don't understand that the work of Steinman was a gigantic rock opera. Nobody in the world ever dare to compose music like him. I miss him so much...
Hope you're OK, wherever you are. -Ryan
@@madhatterster I'll let you know as soon as possible. Thank you my friend.
you sir, are a great man. thank you.
Meatloaf is my favorite musician
Holy Fuck... thanks for that mate... the Shirt fact blew my mind
Du hier? xD
@@merlesstorys was eine überraschung :D fast wie abgesprochen :D
@@gartenmensch1895 wovon sprichst du? xD
Great job Brother #Legacy
There's also the lost Steinman songs. He wrote an album for Def Lepard in the early 80s but they didn't like them and destroyed the tapes. I've never seen anything resembling a track listing. Couple of other musicals he wrote which haven't survived in any form. He also worked on Phantom of the Opera for a couple of weeks and I swear I can hear his influence, at least, in parts of it. Couple of weeks might not sound like a long time though the two tracks for Streets of Fire ( was meant to be Springstein's Streets of Fire as the curtain closer though he refused permission to use it) were written in a couple of days. Which is remarkable as TIWIMTBY is the most definitively sounding Steinman to me. There was also a track for Air Supply, though oddly it doesn't sound all that Steinmanish to mine ears. I also recall a charity single in the UK titled 'When Children rule the World'. If you haven't yet heard the finale from Tanz der Vampire, it's a treat. Two weird and wonderful things about Jim's music are it's longevity or timelessness and the almost complete lack of anyone who has copied rather than covered his style. The only track I can think of which reminds me a lot of Jim is Nightwish's Storytime - which makes me fantasize about what Jim could have done with a talent like Floor Jansen. I'd be very interested to hear of any other tracks that people think were influenced by Jim.
I think he only just produced the Def Leppard album, no songs, but I do remember that he mentioned a title he had for it, something like "Use It Or Lose It". I love the story about "Streets of Fire".
When Children Rule the World is on the Whistle Down The Wind albums. One version is with the original London Cast and a 2nd was on a 2nd album from 1998 of "Songs From" Whistle Down the Wind. That version was sung by Donny Osmond.
Hi Bryer Himself. I was wondering if you know what his songs Modern Girl ang Midnight at the Lost and Found mean? Modern Girl is REEEEEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLYYYYY bothering me and Midnight at the Lost and Found I'm just starting to want to know. I know Meat wants us to create our own stories but I can't do that because I don't know what these songs mean. Can you help me please if you can?
Great video, Steinman is a legend.
On the Bat Out Of Hell musical, What Part of My Body Hurts The Most is a reworking as well, not an original piece. Also in the link is a song called We’re Still the Children which was part of his Batman musical that he was working on that later turned into his Vampire musical
th-cam.com/video/7FjYzywLK5Q/w-d-xo.html
"What Part of my Body Hurts the Most?" was still a new song when the Bat show happened, because the song had never been officially released. It had been performed live a bunch of times, but no official recording or release. Besides that, it uses a bit of the music from "Safe Sex", but I don't hear anything else.
Original Sin is also the end credits song for Alec Baldwin's The Shadow.
May all your rock n roll dreams come true too, comrade ! ❤️
I must say you did a great job here but I also had to say that you've got one thing wrong and that is that Jim's album "Bad for Good" was almost completely written for the Peter Pan musical "Neverland" including the album title. The music for "The Dream Engine" got lost because someone accidently recorded over the tape and the music for "Neverland" was stolen. So Jim rewrite the songs and recorded them with Meat Loaf. The plan was to rerecord all the lost music with Meat Loaf but because of his voice (like you mentioned) Meat wasn't able to record at that time and that's the reason for Jim's album "Bad for Good" and the beginning of older music newly recorded by other artists. But was in the first place ment for Meat Loaf. So Meat himself had something like 'I want to record those song too" And that's why the songs are all covered or partly used in other new songs. U see , there is a logic in it.
This is a good story but not true. The only song on Bad For Good written for Neverland was Dance In My Pants. The 1969 The Dream Engine tape was never recorded over--the complete live Mt. Holyoke performance is on the internet. Neverland tape was lost for years but turned up on mysteriously on the internet. Jim recorded it himself during a performance at the Kennedy Center but forgot to turn on the record button for the first half of Act Two--so that was lost to history forever. The Bat Out of Hell album was completed before Neverland was performed--but it took over a year to find a company that would release it--in the mean time we created Neverland at the Kennedy Center featuring a large portion of the Bat album songs. Meat Loaf was not cast because he didn't look right for an eighteen year old blond blue eyed cult leader. He could have been brilliant as Hook but didn't feel like being there while somebody else sang all his Bat Out Of Hell material. (Barry Keating)
@@spacepunk2001 Lyrics for "Dance In My Pants" in Neverland were also quite different, I believe?
you need to go back to the dream engine and listen and read it all Everything that Jim is famous for starts there, It's like his Genesis/Template and their is still more their that he may well have gone back to if he hadn't fallen victim to illness Like he couldn't talk or play the piano. Anyhow everything is within that first dream engine play
Noted! Tried my hardest to cover everything but will have to go back and see what I missed.
Enjoyed this but I've got to pull you up on one thing: Jim wasn't a 'ghostwriter' for Meat Loaf - he was fully credited on every release.
Jim did not ghostwrite songs for Meat. All of Meat Loaf's famous songs are written by and credited to Jim and Jim alone. Meat was an incomparable singer/actor but he never wrote a note or lyric of those songs. He only wrote the music to Holding Out For A Hero and he only wrote the lyrics to No Matter What. -- BK
@@spacepunk2001 Well, there are the musicals where he collaborated with other authors, but I know you know that already, since you were one of them!
No mention of Whistle Down the Wind?
Steinman only did the lyrics for Whistle Down the Wind. Andrew Lloyd Webber did the music and screenplay if I remember right. There wasn’t anything to talk about from it that related to the topic of the video so I left it out. There is a bunch of other Steinman plays and various project I didn’t touch up on because there was so little info on them/couldn’t relate them to the topic.
@@BryerHimself He did reuse some stuff for it though. "Tire tracks and broken hearts that's all we're leaving behind" comes from "Peel Out". "And we'll never be as young as we are right now" is from "Lost Boys and Golden Girls". Even the line "A dream is being born" goes back to "Song of the Dream Engine" in 1969. There are some lines from "The future ain't what it used to be" in songs like "Whistle down the Wind" and "Unsettled Scores".
I always wanted Steinman to get one more hit to prove he could do it in the 2010s but I think by then health issues had claimed him
So how did you watch bat out of hell the musical :P
Are you talking about Jim Steinman??? I'm in... subscribed at once.
Something tells me your nickname is “Tripod.” 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you
Steinman wrote at least one song, music and lyrics, that Andrew Lloyd Weber and him essentially turned into a different song.
Steinman's credits get confusing. He remains awesome.